#sam and isolation

[scoobydoodean]

Hi im a samgirl and i dont mind if others feel differently about this but if you are interested in a samgirl perspective, the short story to sam's allegorical queerness is that sam grew up feeling fundamentally different from his family. He felt that there was something dirty or unclean about himself which is how a lot of marginalized queer children feel growing up. It's not that queerness itself is monstrous but that society and the patriarchal family unit will cast queerness as the monstrous Other, which is why monstrosity is a pretty common queer allegory.

I keep getting asks about queer Sam and I'm not sure exactly why, other than people maybe assume I have a strong opinion about it. The simple truth is that I just don't find what's said about it compelling so it doesn't interest me. I have no issue with other people exploring it and don't have any desire to ruin anyone's fun. It's just that I don't personally see it when I dig deeper than the surface level of "he felt different" and examine why and exactly what Sam actually wanted and why he felt that way. I will get into that here to an extent I guess because I was asked in another piece of mail what my opinions were, but I don't intend it as an "argument" to start a fight or to dismantle anyone else's perception—just an explanation of my personal lack of interest in this particular type of meta.

First, I don't think "Sam grew up feeling fundamentally different from his family" works for me as a queer meta when the reason Sam felt "fundamentally different" was that—according to his own early framing—he was the normal one trapped in a family of freaks who wanted him to be a freak like them.

Sam says in 1.08 that he felt different from Dean and John, but when we read on to see why, he says it's because he wanted to play soccer instead of being a child soldier.

SAM Because I didn't wanna bowhunt or hustle pool - because I wanted to go to school and live my life, which, to our whacked-out family, made me the freak. DEAN Yeah, you were kind of like the blonde chick in The Munsters.

For people too young to get "the blonde chick in The Munsters", Dean is referring to Marilyn Munster, who was the one "normal" person in a family of monsters in a 1960s sitcom.

In childhood flashbacks in 4.13, Sam refuses to fight Dirk at first even though he could easily best him using the skills he learned from their father.

YOUNG DEAN That's right, you don't. You could have torn him apart. So why didn't you? YOUNG SAM Because I don't want to be the freak for once, Dean. I want to be normal.

In both situations, Sam views his family and what they do as freakish and wants to distinguish himself as the one normal one trapped in a family of monsters who is at threat of becoming like them by pure association and family pressure.

YOUNG SAM Yeah, my, aah -- my dad's a mechanic. So I have to be a mechanic, too. MR. WYATT Do you want to go in the family business, Sam? YOUNG SAM No one's ever asked me that before. MR. WYATT Well? YOUNG SAM More than anything, no.

In 5.16 Dark Side of the Moon, one of Sam's greatest childhood memories is getting to sit down for Thanksgiving dinner in a normal, upper middle class household instead of sitting around with "A bucket of extra-crispy and Dad passed out on the couch."

In 1.01, he says he wants to be nothing like his family. He says he is normal unlike them when Dean is telling him they're the same:

DEAN You can pretend all you want, Sammy. But sooner or later you're going to have to face up to who you really are. SAM And who's that? DEAN You're one of us. SAM No. I'm not like you. This is not going to be my life.

Sam sees the upbringing that he has in common with Dean as something almost... humiliating—to the point that he plans to lie to Jess forever about how he was raised and about his family (1.01).

All of this to say... when the queer allegory I'm being sold is that a guy is queer because he wants to go to college, get married, have 2.5 kids, go no contact with his brother (because Dean isn't normal like him?), and lie about his family to his friends because the idea of them knowing he didn't grow up normal is embarrassing... I don't feel like I'm reading a queer allegory. I'd be more likely to think that if anything, I'm reading a comedy from the POV of "the token straight" who initially functions (in the Pilot) as the "normal" character to introduce the "normal" audience to an "abnormal" world in a relatable, palatable way.

That said, when we embrace the fact that the Winchesters are a family of freaks, there is an easy counterpoint here which is that Sam's attitude in the beginning of the series represents being closeted and desperately trying to assimilate with normal society and be perceived as just like everybody else... and his freak family is in the way. In this case, Sam knows deep down that he is like his family (i.e. queer) but desperately wishes he wasn't so that he could fit in. Given that I'm a big believer in Sam being a hunter through and through despite his occasional denials, I find this much more compelling than the argument that Sam feeling othered in his family because he sees himself (at least at first) as the one normal one makes him queer.

*One of you shaking me back and forth*

"But PK—WHAT ABOUT THE DEMON BLOOD?!?!"

Yeah yeah yeah. While it doesn't start out that way, eventually, Sam does reflect on his childhood and see himself as Megamind instead of Marilyn Munster. This is retroactive though (in my opinion. I do not actually believe Sam could "sense" his dormant powers) after finding out that Azazel dropped blood into his mouth when he was a baby. Instead of feeling like the normal one in a family of freaks, Sam starts to feel like the biggest freak in the family, and Dean's "I'm a freak too" suddenly feels like platitudes. Dean—whose calls Sam didn't pick up for years—starts to seem like the normal one—the good one—between them. Dean is the hero character, the righteous man, the sword of heaven... and Sam thinks in his worst moments that he is someone Hero!Dean should be duty bound to kill (2.11). These are all feelings that (again—in my opinion) develop later. I talk about Sam's feelings of otherness and why he actually had those feelings and how I think the demon blood erroneously comes into play as an explanation for his insecurities here.

I think it probably also makes sense to mention here that the idea that Sam was treated as a monster by his family is very very overstated by portions of fandom. I'm not saying Sam never had reason to feel different or othered or unloved or neglected—he absolutely did (as did Dean). I am saying that people like to write about things that never actually happened when they talk about how Sam was treated growing up. Sam felt different from his family because John let Dean start hunting when he was younger than Sam, then he felt different because he wanted to play soccer and go to school while John wanted him to hunt, and because he thought Dean enjoyed being a parentified child and being raised like a soldier and Sam didn't. Retroactively, Sam feels different when he finds out he has powers. These do not develop until he is an adult, and it is never indicated to us that John knew about any of this when Sam was growing up—much less treated him differently growing up because of it. Retroactively, Sam believes Dean sees him as a freak for having visions even though Dean repeatedly treats his visions as no big deal and psychics are an accepted and trusted group within the hunter community (see: Missouri, Pam, Fred). Retroactively, Sam feels different because he was fed blood as a baby. He did not know this until he was an adult, and neither did Dean, as far as we know, neither did John. Sam never believes that Dean would act on John's last whispered command (that again—does not transpire until Sam is an adult) to the point that he repeatedly tries to guilt Dean into promises to follow through and carry out John's will. Retroactively, Sam feels like a freak in season 4 because Sam chooses to drink a completely different demon's blood of his own free will and develop a completely new power set and Dean doesn't think it's a good thing.

TL;DR Sam did not grow up being treated as the monstrous other by his dad and brother. He grew up as an understandably rebellious kid whose dad was a neglectful asshole and a drill sergeant, and he hated being dragged from place to place with no say. He felt different because he stood in contrast to a brother who tried his best to keep the peace because experience taught Dean that refusing to obey would get people killed (1.18), John would send Dean away if Dean gave him lip (14.12), and Dean felt he had to be there to take care of Sam and John (1.06).

More or less, these are the reasons I don't find the queer Sam metas I have stumbled across particularly compelling (along with—imo—Jared's lack of romantic chemistry with other men). At the same time, people seeing Sam as queer or not queer doesn't bother me. I am not trying to "take away" that interpretation from anyone else (as if I even could). I'm just not interested.

[wombpala]

retconning Dean into a perfect mini-parent is so gross and flat bc the gas station funyuns and stolen Christmas barbie dolls of it all is what makes it so gutwrenching. like ofc he wasn't churning out home-cooked meals ofc he couldn't shield Sam from loneliness or instability!! he was a CHILD. isolating 2 little kids and asking 1 of them to be the other's sworn protector is psychologically ruinous for BOTH of them. Dean can't save Sam from the abusive situation they're BOTH in no matter how much of himself he carves up. and that. is what makes me wanna claw my eyes out.

[tired-fandom-ndn]

Evan and K running away from the world and keeping to themselves out of fear and to avoid the hurt that comes with forming meaningful relationships vs Jammer and Sam always being surrounded by people but hiding massive chunks of themselves and their lives because they don't believe anyone around them would want them in their entirety.

[completelymindfucked]

“Those boys, they seem strange to you?”

[hyohaehyuk]

(x)

I swear this hate tweet that become a meme in the fandom is perfect to explain those photos above 😅

[cas-poisoning]

Imagining Gen Z Supernatural… Sam and Dean born in 2003 and 1999 instead of 1983 and 1979. Many thoughts.

[helpimstuckposting]

I know people are going to say Sam was a dick this episode, but I genuinely understand both sides of the argument. Obviously we know Alice is being sincere, but I think she’s run into a bit of a ‘boy who cried wolf’ situation. Like, ‘girl who cried skeptic’ so hard that you can’t tell if she’s being honest or just saying what Sam wants to hear to convince him to stop with the magnus institute

[samsbrowncarhartt]

Art (that, in my head, is about Supernatural)

Witness - Ben McLaughlin (2012) oil on card laid on panel // Unknown work - Gérard DuBois // Unknown Artist // Wind from the Sea - Andrew Wyeth (1947) tempera on hardboard // Unknown Artist // Makten - Kenneth Blom (2002) oil on canvas // Melancholy - Ivan Pokidyshev (2023) acrylic on canvas // Twilight - Riona Buthello (2022) oil on canvas // At This Hour - Losel Yauch (2024) acrylic on wood // Psychic - Kim Cogan (2022) oil on panel

[creativelycomplex]

Guys please tell me you see how much more buff he looks. Like his body is already a 10 but he’s clearly getting more toned for rockstar Lestat. I need to see him in a croppie with short sleeves neoowwww.

-Sneak peek of Sam Reid on the emsolation podcast coming out next week! Screenshot from podcast host’s instagram (emrusciano)

[shallowseeker]

I was thinking about Cas's little sarcastic dig in Family Matters here ("Of course. Your problems always come first.")

Sam, and especially Dean, don’t want to be treated like they’re being babysat by Cas, yet in the early days, they often hope Cas will be endlessly available, invincible, and strong.

(And it's complicated because... compared to them, Cas kinda IS!!!)

Cas, for his part, occupies a complicated space for them. While he is given room to be vulnerable at times, he’s also relied on to be everything at once: Dean's partner in times of trouble, someone who will "be there when Sam calls" and "tear the attic up for Sam," all while shouldering cosmic battles.

The irony is even deeper when Cas gets referred to as "a child" or "a baby in a trench coat"—yet his strength, sacrifice, and loyalty are counted on without question.

(Cas is often goaded into being stronger, of course, because Dean is scared and needs that strength from Cas more than Dean needs it from anyone else, even if Dean doesn't understand why that is. And even if Cas doesn't catch everything in those references, Cas can't help but FEEL that expectation.)

///

BY ANYWAY, BOBBY. In Weekend at Bobby's, Bobby is SOOooooo parent-coded in this episode in a way that kinda parallels Cas in s6.

It's an off-key parallel, but both Bobby and Cas are expected to be there. Bobby without "selfish" complaint, Cas without visible weakness.

Their struggles often go unnoticed unless voiced outright—something Bobby, in true crusty Bobby fashion, has no prob doing in Weekend at Bobby’s:

INT. BOBBY’S HOUSE – NIGHT BOBBY: I – I hear you, son. I – it just ain’t a good time. DEAN (over the phone): Yeah, okay. You know what – Forget it. I mean I'm baring my soul like a freaking girl here and, uh –And you've got stuff to do. So that is – that's fine. That's fine but, seriously, a little selfish. Not all about you. [Bobby gets angry and leans forward.]

///

Dean is going through a LOT, but it's funny how like a child he comes off here. He's spinning out, and he has "no one to talk to," and Bobby's his DAD!

Dean invokes his own emotions like "baring his soul," and is clearly taken aback when Bobby isn't immediately receptive. It shows how Dean expects Bobby to always be there, without question, no matter what Bobby might be dealing with.

That’s classic "invincible parent" territory: the idea that their needs are secondary, or even non-existent.

(Aside// This is sometimes a bit how Sam can treat Dean throughout the run of the series, and how both boys occasionally treat Cas in s6).

///

And then Bobby tears them a new one!!! :D Yay!!! It's a real family moment and I LOVE IT:

DEAN (putting Bobby on speaker after Bobby tells him to go get Sam): You're on speaker, Bobby. BOBBY: Sam. Dean. love you like my own. I do. But sometimes [Bobby pauses and takes a long drink.] Sometimes… You two are the whiniest, most self-absorbed sons of bitches I ever met! I'm selfish? Me? I do everything for you! Everything! You need some lores scrounged up – You need your asses pulled out of the fire –You need someone to bitch to about each other – [Sam looks at Dean, puzzled.] BOBBY (over the phone): You call me and I come through – Every damn time! And what do I get for it?Jack with a side of squat! DEAN: Bobby – BOBBY: Do I sound like I'm done? Now look. I know you've got issues. God knows I know. But I got a news flash for you. You ain't the center of the universe! Now, it may have slipped your mind …that Crowley owns my soul! And the meter is running! And I will be damned if I'm going to sit around –And – and be damned! So how about you two sack up and help me for once? Dean looks very humble and Sam calm. SAM: Bobby, all – all you got to do is ask. DEAN: Anything you need... we're there.

Hits like a tired, overlooked parent.

He reminds them he gets nothing in return from them, which is a HUGE call out to how invisible and thankless his role as caretaker has become.

Bobby’s "sack up and help me for once" is both a plea and a challenge, demanding they grow up and recognize that he, too, is vulnerable and needs support.

It's the parent figure finally voicing the toll of always being strong—for once, asking to be seen.

Dean especially is humbled here. He's been the caretaker for his family, so he gets it immediately.

How hard he was leaning on Bobby.

///

Aside/// This season, Dean's actual support group is small, maybe even consists of just Bobby and Cas. Dean is short on "Dean understanders" this season; that is, he's short on people who see his core experience as not merely a brother, but an actual *pseudo-parent. Dean is a parent of Sam Winchester: and Sam is a complicated, apocalyptic-torn person who's often saddled with shouldering waaaay too much cosmic responsibility...

...which in turn has Dean shouldering too much responsibility too!

So when it comes to Bobby and Cas, Dean puts what he can't take on them! His family!

///

But unlike Bobby, Cas doesn't ask for help.

Which... it's complicated. (And very human.)

For starters, thanks to his upbringing, Cas WANTS to be strong. He thrives and is comfortable being that. Second, there are definitely little ways Cas gets the not-so-coded message that it's bad to be weak, even if those weren't the messages Dean intended to send. (Dean is desperate for everyone to be okay, and he needs someone to want to shoulder the real, complete Dean, with all his duties and complications. And for some reason, subconsciously, Dean wants that someone... to be Cas.)

Regardless, lines like "Babies whine" and "Without your powers" dig a lot deeper than intended for Cas, because Dean didn't have the full scope of the angelic war or Cas's fears about Raphael. And even when Dean DID get glimpses of that, it didn't yield the full story.

///

For his part, Cas is keeping Sam and Dean at arm's length, trying to place them in a "these are my charges to protect" role.

Bu unlike with Bobby, who Dean firmly places in a parental role, something is trying to FUNDAMENTALLY shift between Cas and Dean.

They often find themselves eye-to-eye in the kitchen, making decisions together in a way that feels imho very spousal, creating a dynamic where Dean doesn’t quite know how to navigate this growing sense of wanting to be an equal partner with Cas.

So you get their weird push-pull power struggle between them, sniping and bitching, mirroring what happens in real-life couples early in the relationship when responsibilities are heavy and scary. It's this swirling mix of "Oh shit, I don't know what to do! And YOU don't know what to do! What do WE DO?!" And "You are such a baby / be careful you idiot / be stronger plz for the love of god"

But yeah.

So... Cas holds himself in the role of an ANGEL, remaining largely invisible throughout the season and trying his best to keep his struggles INVISIBLE too, including the war he's fighting on humanity's behalf. Cas prefers that. From a distance. Emotions are scary af; he even calls them CRIPPLING in Mommy Dearest.

(Aside///Call-forward to Mary’s: "I was trying to make things right. Just from a distance, because... being here with you was too hard. Seeing what I'd done to you and to Sam, I..." /// Mary was ashamed of her deal; And Cas was ashamed of his brothers, of angelicity itself, of what they KEEP doing to humanity.)

Anyway, Dean doesn’t quite know how to handle their strange bond, that longing, that closeness, especially as Cas insists on remaining emotionally and physically distant, trying to handle a war they can't even see.

//

As for Bobby and Cas...

While they have their moments of pushback (Bobby’s explosion in Weekend at Bobby’s, Cas’s barbed sarcasm in Family Matters), and it definitely reveals the strain they’re under...

...it often also works to underscore just how invisible their labor has become to the very people they love.

But while Dean begins to grow up enough to see and name Bobby's sacrifices, his understanding of Cas's struggle is murkier, tangled up in pride, love, and the deep, unspoken hope that Cas will always be strong enough for both of them. (Save-me-save-US-but-let-me-help-you.)

I think the thing I love about it all… is the dualistic (subconscious) desire for Cas to make everything okay versus the worry for Cas not to shoulder these burdens alone. It's SOOOOO! HNNNNNnNNnngg. It's very real.

///

EDIT DISCLAIMER: This wasn't exactly the point of this post (Bobby and Cas feeling misunderstood/underappreciated), but for completionist's sake:

Dean's grief is attenuated by the experience of being a "pseudo-parent," and definitely a caretaker in the context of "cosmic-inflicted illness," and that's a riptide that runs through season 6 in a big way. Dean needs the people he loves to SEE this aspect of his life in order to feel understood.

That's what 12x22 is all about. The thread from season 6 to season 12 is surprisingly thick! That's why this:

prefaces this: BEING SEEN

It's not a question of how fair or unfair it is, or if he "should be" or "shouldn't be" "a parent." It's about those very real efforts being seen and understood by those around him, including the grief and continued sense of responsibility this has wrought under worsening and frankly, incredibly unfair cosmic circumstances.

[scoobydoodean]

"These are your issues, quit dumping them on me!" | Season 1, Assorted

[luciddaydreamingworlds]

Ridiculously long rant below:

Y'know, something that still kinda pisses me off is in Psychonauts, when Raz goes to Milla and to Lili and tells them that Dogen's brain has been stolen, they reply with, "Oh, Dogen's just like that." I understand it's supposed to be a silly little, "haha, this kid is so airheaded that no one notices when his brain is gone," and I hate it. Raz knew Dogen for less than a day, and had maybe one or two conversations with him (not counting the times you can come across him before his brain is stolen), and he *still* knew Dogen well enough to realize that he was acting off. Milla and Lili have probably had way more interactions with Dogen, and they pass the poor kid off as some brainless dolt. Like, I'm not *as* mad at Lili, cuz she's kind of a mean, angsty pre-teen that would rather be anywhere except that camp, but Milla's got a past in childcare. Even if she does genuinely believe that Dogen is spacey enough to be on the same level as a brainless body, she should've at least said that she would go check on Dogen after the Levitation training, even if it was just to ease Raz's concerns.

And then, in Psychonauts 2, neither Sam nor Comtpon had very nice reactions to learning that Raz knows Dogen. Sam remarks that Raz's head looks "remarkably unexploded," amd then proceeds to state that Dogen only blows up people that deserve it, which implies both that Sam doesn't think Dogen can become friends with someone *without* blowing up their heads, and that if/when he *does* blow people up, it is intentional and/or the fault of the person. Compton, upon hearing Raz saying he knows Dogen, immediately panics and assumes that Dogen has had another incident. Granted, he *does* believe Raz when he says that Dogen hasn't had another incident, but it's sad that he can't hear about Dogen without assuming that the boy has done something.

Now, I'm not gonna rant about all that and completely ignore Dogen's behavior. He *is* pretty spacey, he's admitted to blowing up a few people, and he intentionally blew up the squirrels over a misunderstanding. He's very prone to getting stressed out and overwhelmed, and he's been isolated by his family for who knows how long, and yet he still tries. He wants to make connections and have friends. He wants to have control over his powers, he *wants* to be a normal kid. He's not perfect, but he's not a monster. And he's *certainly* not dumb enough or spacey enough to be considered on par with people that have had their brains removed.

Tldr - Dogen deserves better, and if we ever get another installment of Psychonauts, I want to see him come back. I need more positive interactions between him and Raz.

[fox-guardian]

they most likely started dating in uni. they'd been dating for years. Alice has been working at the OIAR for almost a decade. what if their breakup was literally just "we never get to see each other anymore because of your job, I miss you" "I'm sorry I can't quit this job" "I understand. But then maybe we should see other people, since our lifestyles are too incompatible" ".... okay" what if it was just that.

which would perhaps make it hurt Worse for Alice (if she Does still have feelings for him) that now that he Does work the same hours as her, that he's.... going after someone else.

[shadystranger]

Even he was weirded tf out x2

[luxurystark-jackson]

Florida Man Finds Out His Workplace is Actually Just a Weird Cult

[beinghymen]

Grandparents and i are watching the episode where Dean and Sam are captured by the united states government and spend months in solitude, and my granddad pointed out that Dean could've used a loose nail to make some kind of sigil or something to contact Cas, or get some kind of help, rather than uselessly making tallies on the wall lmfao