#some people just want characters to die

[depressedhatakekakashi]

I feel like I will never understand the people who think that Kakashi should have stayed dead in the Pain arc, since according to them he doesn't do anything relevant afterwards. I feel that if that had been the case, Kakashi would have had an unfinished character development. For me, people forget all the nice moments the character gave us (like, for example, him carrying Naruto), or all the characters he saved, or that he was the one who discovered how Obito's technique worked and that he was also the one who made the plan to seal Kaguya. Idk why they think he should have died there...

Without Kakashi

-Obito’s reveal would have held no weight. Like honestly the only reason we feel anything anout Obito’s reveal is because of his connection to Kakashi.

-Sasuke and Naruto would never have sealed Kaguya. The two of them were trying time and time again and it wasn’t until Kakashi entered the fight with Sussano and put into action a plan of his own that they FINALLY succeed.

- Obito would have never come back to the ‘good’ side. Naruto knocked some sense into Obito but Obito only gave up fighting at that point. It was Kakashi who brought Obito to their side in the fight.

-Sakura would have died, MULTIPLE TIMES. Heck, just from the change to the lava dimension her and Obito would have died as it was Kakashi who saved all of them.

-Obito’s heart would never have been destroyed, thus destroying Madara’s seal on it and giving Obito the freedom to break away from Madara.

- Naruto would probably have approached Danzo about sasuke and been locked away, forcing him to sit down and leaving no one to approach the Raikage about Sasuke, or forcing him to go Rogue to try and fight for Sasuke. It was Kakashi who chose to ignore rules and take Naruto to the Raikage to plead for Sasuke’s life.

-Sasuke would have killed Sakura. End point. Naruto saved her the second time, but Kakashi saved her the first time. If Kakashi was dead Naruto would have arrived to a dead Sakura.

-No one would have brought Naruto to the village and he would have passed out in the forest after his interaction with Nagato and Konan. It was Kakashi who arrived looking for him and carried him back to Konoha.

- Danzo would have been granted title of Hokage right away without struggle. Kakashi was the only one offered up as an opposing choice, and there was no one else the elder’s or even the daiymo would have seriously considered (For the daiymo connection matters, as shown by how quickly they recognized Kakashi by him being the ‘son of the White fang’

But most importabtly

That would have been an absolute shit ending. Kakashi is a character who has always been about dying to protect his precious people.

That was what he thought his worth was. Dying to protect ither’s and the village.’

Him living is what he needed.

Him living allowed him to realize he had worth as more than just a weapon, and that he was allowed to heal and be happy.

If he stayed dead in the pein arc he never would have gotten closure about Obito and Rin’s death, which would feel empty as by that point we’ve learned a bit about his past.

It’s the whole ‘gai should have died in the war’ shit all over again.

They could have died, but then they would just be feeding into the idea that they were fodder for the greater war machine with no worth other than to die for the cause

That was exactly the story kishi was trying to change

What naruto and others wanted so badly to change

Kakashi, Gai and other’s living was the purpose of the story because Naruto’s goal was to have a world where people didn’t die needless deaths.

Kakashi surving was part of Naruto achieving that goal

Putting an end to countless needless deaths.

It’s why Nagato brought the people of Konoha back. He realized that he was perpetuating what he had felt by killing others, and by placing his trust in naruto to change things for the better he chose to display that trust by being the first step and bringing those he killed back.

By ending the cycle of needless death

[rookflower]

wanting good things to happen to a character you like in terms of catharsis or an overall more satisfying narrative is obviously normal and fine and good but some wc fans seem solely fixated on characters "getting what they deserve" to the extent where it comes across more as either them seeing the characters as real life people with feelings or them just not really liking tragedy. which is fine i guess but like i dont really get it lol

[dxxtruction]

Louis' "You're boring!" Could mean so many things, but I think what's most apparent about that line is that Armand takes no initiative just for himself. He's not really anybody, because he never goes out and finds himself or gets attached to anyone but Louis. Without Louis as his guide he's literally just sitting on a couch picking lint! That's the thing.

He orbits constantly around what would make Louis happy, and never really fully going what would make me happy? Ultimately that drive to please Louis is what drives him to torturing Daniel, not so much that he'd care to just do it. Ultimately, not giving proper care to Louis is just a way to make sure Louis knows he has to orbit around him as well, with shoving Lestat onto him just that other nail on the coffin. So, even if he fails to figure out how to make Louis happy with him, he still knows what Armand is good for, and better than.

That dependency is what drives Armand's abuse. It really just comes down to that. Armand doesn't even realize how suffocated he is by his own dependency. This is just how life is to him. (It shouldn't be lost either that dependency is a theme considering this episode also deals with addiction).

Daniel's fascinating because he's just so driven to be somebody. He's largely independent, he seeks things because he wants them. It's his drug to poke and prod at all the things that he shouldn't. Daniel's exciting because he lets Louis in to something different, lets him in to all this potential in another person that he can also do the same with for himself. It's a real connection. A two way street. It's easy to tell how Armand can be smothering then because he's never introducing him to anything really new, and most the ways both of them connect are all painful and traumatic. It's never just fun because there's always that layer of that pain. Fun died with Claudia.

50 years on they've gotten to a lot better place, both of them, but it's still that same shit. No seriously, "How is this any different from last time, Louis?"

Well... Because Armand's going to be, at the very least, making one [1] decision only for himself - and that's to hold power over Daniel's life. Fucking sick foreshadowing.

They aren't driving each other to the brink anymore but "The vampire is bored" STILL. Maybe it's even worse, despite being in better places, because Louis' sort of just been defeated by it. (I mean, can he even really leave this either?). He's accepting the dependancy cause he kind of has to. He'd literally ended up letting all the enjoyment be up where he can't reach [The book shelves]. Armand so desperately wants Louis happiness but what really ends up happening is that Louis ends up having to give Armand all his own. He's got no one or anything else to get it from. But like an iPad and an over the top eating ritual. Two extremes of what's just more lint picking.

This whole relationship is one I find just tragic inside and out. You have to just pity it, really. There's ways in which you can find yourself feeling bad for both of them. But you can only really be mad at Armand for any of it. Armand, who isn't even 'free' in any sense, having so little concept of his own independence, but is at the same time so controlling over other's. It's a tragic cycle. It's an infuriating one.

Louis at least has the mind to know when enough is enough. If just needing that extra push to get there. Armand's too scared of it being over to even try.

[sideprince]

I resent getting dragged into the discourse but it's wild to me that there are people out there who read the HP books and laud Harry for being brave and having a big heart and redeeming the wizarding world with his unusually great ability to love, yet can't comprehend how he could learn to appreciate Snape's sacrifice.

I'm very specifically thinking of the fact that Harry watches Snape die. Snape, who is lying on the floor, gripping Harry's robes, and whose eyes Harry is looking into and seeing the life leave. I don't understand how people can humanize some fictional characters and treat them as if they were real and completely dehumanize another. Not even for Snape's sake, but for Harry's sake, do these people not understand what it is to watch someone die? What's the expectation, that the Capacity For Love Posterchild protagonist steps out of character and doesn't care about the guy he watches bleed out and die suffering because you, as a reader, don't like him?

Which is it? Does Harry have a huge capacity to love or not? Pick a lane. Either you value this character trait in Harry or you don't. But you have to take or leave everything it comes with, otherwise you're a hypocrite. Or maybe illiterate.

I just don't GET it.

[agenttommykinard]

I think the deleted scene is simply showing you how much Buck is cared for by the people he chose to be in his life, and from someone who craved that care and attention for so long I just think that's neat that Buck has so many people now that do, and idk I'm just happy for him

[greenerteacups]

oooh please someday tell us what you think of GOT

oh, no, it's my fatal weakness! it's [checks notes] literally just the bare modicum of temptation! okay you got me.

SO. in order to tell what's wrong with game of thrones you kind of have to have read the books, because the books are the reason the show goes off the rails. i actually blame the showrunners relatively little in proportion to GRRM for how bad the show was (which I'm not gonna rehash here because if you're interested in GOT in any capacity you've already seen that horse flogged to death). people debate when GOT "got bad" in terms of writing, but regardless of when you think it dropped off, everyone agrees the quality declined sharply in season 8, and to a certain extent, season 7. these are the seasons that are more or less entirely spun from whole cloth, because season 7 marks the beginning of what will, if we ever see it, be the Winds of Winter storyline. it's the first part that isn't based on a book by George R.R. Martin. it's said that he gave the showrunners plot outlines, but we don't know how detailed they were, or how much the writers diverged from the blueprint — and honestly, considering the cumulative changes made to the story by that point, some stark divergence would have been required. (there's a reason for this. i'll get there in a sec.)

so far, i'm not saying anything all that original. a lot of people recognized how bad the show got as soon as they ran out of Book to adapt. (I think it's kind of weird that they agreed to make a show about an unfinished series in the first place — did GRRM figure that this was his one shot at a really good HBO adaptation, and forego misgivings about his ability to write two full books in however many years it took to adapt? did he think they would wait for him? did he not care that the series would eventually spoil his magnum opus, which he's spent the last three decades of his life writing? perplexing.) but the more interesting question is why the show got bad once it ran out of Book, because in my mind, that's not a given. a lot of great shows depart from the books they were based on. fanfiction does exactly that, all the time! if you have good writers who understand the characters they're working with, departure means a different story, not a worse one. now, the natural reply would be to say that the writers of GOT just aren't good, or at least aren't good at the things that make for great television, and that's why they needed the books as a structure, but I don't think that's true or fair, either. books and television are very different things. the pacing of a book is totally different from the pacing of a television show, and even an episodic book like ASOIAF is going to need a lot of work before it's remotely watchable as a series. bad writers cannot make great series of television, regardless of how good their source material is. sure, they didn't invent the characters of tyrion lannister and daenerys targaryen, but they sure as hell understood story structure well enough to write a damn compelling season of TV about them!

so but then: what gives? i actually do think it's a problem with the books! the show starts out as very faithful to the early books (namely, A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings) to the point that most plotlines are copied beat-for-beat. the story is constructed a little differently, and it's definitely condensed, but the meat is still there. and not surprisingly, the early books in ASOIAF are very tightly written. for how long they are, you wouldn't expect it, but on every page of those books, the plot is racing. you can practically watch george trying to beat the fucking clock. and he does! useful context here is that he originally thought GOT was going to be a trilogy, and so the scope of most threads in the first book or two would have been much smaller. it also helps that the first three books are in some respects self-contained stories. the first book is a mystery, the second and third are espionage and war dramas — and they're kept tight in order to serve those respective plots.

the trouble begins with A Feast for Crows, and arguably A Storm of Swords, because GRRM starts multiplying plotlines and treating the series as a story, rather than each individual book. he also massively underestimated the number of pages it would take him to get through certain plot beats — an assumption whose foundation is unclear, because from a reader's standpoint, there is a fucke tonne of shit in Feast and Dance that's spurious. I'm not talking about Brienne's Riverlands storyline (which I adore thematically but speaking honestly should have been its own novella, not a part of Feast proper). I'm talking about whole chapters where Tyrion is sitting on his ass in the river, just talking to people. (will I eat crow about this if these pay off in hugely satisfying ways in Winds or Dream? oh, totally. my brothers, i will gorge myself on sweet sweet corvid. i will wear a dunce cap in the square, and gleefully, if these turn out to not have been wastes of time. the fact that i am writing this means i am willing to stake a non-negligible amount of pride on the prediction that that will not happen). I'm talking about scenes where the characters stare at each other and talk idly about things that have already happened while the author describes things we already have seen in excruciating detail. i'm talking about threads that, while forgivable in a different novel, are unforgivable in this one, because you are neglecting your main characters and their story. and don't tell me you think that a day-by-day account tyrion's river cruise is necessary to telling his story, because in the count of monte cristo, the main guy disappears for nine years and comes hurtling back into the story as a vengeful aristocrat! and while time jumps like that don't work for everything, they certainly do work if what you're talking about isn't a major story thread!

now put aside whether or not all these meandering, unconcluded threads are enjoyable to read (as, in fairness, they often are!). think about them as if you're a tv showrunner. these bad boys are your worst nightmare. because while you know the author put them in for a reason, you haven't read the conclusion to the arc, so you don't know what that reason is. and even if the author tells you in broad strokes how things are going to end for any particular character (and this is a big "if," because GRRM's whole style is that he lets plots "develop as he goes," so I'm not actually convinced that he does have endings written out for most major characters), that still doesn't help you get them from point A (meandering storyline) to point B (actual conclusion). oh, and by the way, you have under a year to write this full season of television, while GRRM has been thinking about how to end the books for at least 10. all of this means you have to basically call an audible on whether or not certain arcs are going to pay off, and, if they are, whether they make for good television, and hence are worth writing. and you have to do that for every. single. unfinished. story. in the books.

here's an example: in the books, Quentin Martell goes on a quest to marry Daenerys and gain a dragon. many chapters are spent detailing this quest. spoiler alert: he fails, and he gets charbroiled by dragons. GRRM includes this plot to set up the actions of House Martell in Winds, but the problem is that we don't know what House Martell does in Winds, because (see above) the book DNE. So, although we can reliably bet that the showrunners understand (1) Daenerys is coming to Westeros with her 3 fantasy nukes, and (2) at some point they're gonna have to deal with the invasion of frozombies from Canada, that DOESN'T mean they necessarily know exactly what's going to happen to Dorne, or House Martell. i mean, fuck! we don't even know if Martin knows what's going to happen to Dorne or House Martell, because he's said he's the kind of writer who doesn't set shit out beforehand! so for every "Cersei defaults on millions of dragons in loans from the notorious Bank of Nobody Fucks With Us, assumes this will have no repercussions for her reign or Westerosi politics in general" plotline — which might as well have a big glaring THIS WILL BE IMPORTANT stamp on top of the chapter heading — you have Arianne Martell trying to do a coup/parent trap switcheroo with Myrcella, or Euron the Goffick Antichrist, or Faegon Targaryen and JonCon preparing a Blackfyre restoration, or anything else that might pan out — but might not! And while that uncertainty about what's important to the "overall story" might be a realistic way of depicting human beings in a world ruled by chance and not Destiny, it makes for much better reading than viewing, because Game of Thrones as a fantasy television series was based on the first three books, which are much more traditional "there is a plot and main characters and you can generally tell who they are" kind of book. I see Feast and Dance as a kind of soft reboot for the series in this respect, because they recenter the story around a much larger cast and cast a much broader net in terms of which characters "deserve" narrative attention.

but if you're making a season of television, you can't do that, because you've already set up the basic premise and pacing of your story, and you can't suddenly pivot into a long-form tone poem about the horrors of war. so you have to cut something. but what are you gonna cut? bear in mind that you can't just Forget About Dorne, or the Iron Islands, or the Vale, or the North, or pretty much any region of the story, because it's all interconnected, but to fit in everything from the books would require pacing of the sort that no reasonable audience would ever tolerate. and bear in mind that the later books sprout a lot more of these baby-plots that could go somewhere, but also might end up being secondary or tertiary to the "main story," which, at the end of the day, is about dragons and ice zombies and the rot at the heart of the feudal power system glorified in classical fantasy. that's the story that you as the showrunner absolutely must give them an end to, and that's the story that should be your priority 1.

so you do a hack and slash job, and you mortar over whatever you cut out with storylines that you cook up yourself, but you can't go too far afield, because you still need all the characters more or less in place for the final showdown. so you pinch here and push credulity there, and you do your best to put the characters in more or less the same place they would have been if you kept the original, but on a shorter timeframe. and is it as good as the first seasons? of course not! because the material that you have is not suited to TV like the first seasons are. and not only that, but you are now working with source material that is actively fighting your attempt to constrain a linear and well-paced narrative on it. the text that you're working with changed structure when you weren't looking, and now you have to find some way to shanghai this new sprawling behemoth of a Thing into a television show. oh, and by the way, don't think that the (living) author of the source material will be any help with this, because even though he's got years of experience working in television writing, he doesn't actually know how all of these threads will tie together, which is possibly the reason that the next book has taken over 8 years (now 13 and counting) to write. oh and also, your showrunners are sick of this (in fairness, very difficult) job and they want to go write for star wars instead, so they've refused the extra time the studio offered them for pre-production and pushed through a bunch of first-draft scripts, creating a crunch culture of the type that spawns entirely avoidable mistakes, like, say, some poor set designer leaving a starbucks cup in frame.

anyway, that's what I think went wrong with game of thrones.

[operationjetset]

comic regarding my personal headcanons on juniper being gay. I don’t like giving characters sexualities without expanding that thought process & how it affects them, especially given the time period ieytd takes place in. sorry that you’re famous and the possibility of a scandal like that reaching the public eye would lead to the downfall of your career. what’s a man to do!

[aimasup]

throws up my hands in mock resignation but also a hint of frustration Okay Valentino is a cool villain I guess

He's like. Genuinely unsettling. Wish the show struck a better balance with his character sometimes (like sometimes when he's onscreen I have to skip over because I feel queasy and sometimes he's so unsubtle he feels more like a prop than a guy who's going to be a Huge Deal in s2)

[ddlcbrainrot]

kinda wish more fics portrayed monika as a bad person

[13eyond13]

love it when a character that's hard to read intuitively for you has like a dedicated fandom interpreter who can just glance at their blank face in a panel and then give you a 3k word essay on their innermost thoughts & desires & fears and neatly tie it back into the themes & whatnot as if it's the most obvious thing in the world

[vigilskeep]

i need to wynnepost. somebody has to

[bumblebeebats]

There are a lot of really nuanced pros and cons to the phenomenon of creators being more accessible to fans via social media nowadays, but one of the strangest things I've observed is like. People asking permission to have headcanons? Like yes, obviously, it's interesting to learn more about the creators' original intentions, but "Neil Gaiman, is it ok if in interpret Aziraphale as having carpal tunnel? 🥺" babes, that's between you and your 10 most unhinged Discord friends. Here, look, watch: I think Guillermo de la Cruz listens to My Chemical Romance. I think Zagreus has ADHD. I think Harrowhark Nonagesimus is a Scorpio. See? No snipers. It's easy, it's legal, and it's free

[spacedlexi]

Kenny and Violet anon here YES.

Violet is upset because someone she defended against her found family of 8 years let her get taken by brainwashing adults for 2 seconds and everyone flips their lid.

But Kenny refuses to stop a train, and gets into a whole fight with Lee over it (AND REFUSES TO HELP YOU FIND A LOST LITTLE GIRL WHILE YOU’RE FIGHTING OFF AN INFECTION, where as Violet always defends you in Episode 1 regardless of whether you ignored and/or antagonized her or not), and gets mad at an 11 year old for not being able to handle helping someone in labor by herself and everybody’s like “Nah it’s okay, his family died years ago so he gets to do whatever he wants.” as if Violet didn’t witness one of the only consistent family members in her life die in front of her 💀

There’s so many comparisons I could make and one day I’ll make a Venn Diagram about all of their similarities but for now I’m glad someone pointed this out.

there are some things kenny does that have No excuse (like refusing to help bitten lee look for missing clem all because hes mad you didnt side with him enough. leaving lee to singlehandedly save himself in the pharmacy because he got scared. threatening to slap clem for blaming herself for lees death. off the top of my head). but his behavior on the train is annoying yet understandable. he doesnt want to admit his son is dying and he feels like duck dying in the first place is his fault for not saving shawn. you can convince him to stop without things getting physical

the Problem comes in when people can understand and sympathize with kennys annoying/shitty actions, but when it comes to violet (who has the same "my family is dead and its made me bitter and closed off" backstory (and her whole arc is about learning to love and care again)), suddenly all understanding goes out the window. even tho shes not even a FRACTION as annoying and shitty as kenny can get 😭😭

violet is mean to clem for the One scene where youre introduced to her (ignoring your first moment with her in the courtyard where shes smiling at clem so you already know her shitty attitude later is a lie. louis even defends her. wingman lol. and depending on what you say in response to her you can Immediately see the regret on her face LOL). but before the scene even Ends shes complimenting clem and clem loves it. then youre forced to talk to her and tenn about the twins, you have a nice card game where you can joke around with her, then she shows up at the dorm and they have a nice heart to heart about how theyre BOTH struggling with the loss of people theyve loved, and they can sympathize about both being harsher than they intend (THEY GET EACH OTHER CANONICALLY)

and vi not being "a people person" is a huge part of her arc?? she doesnt like that shes like this 😭 but shes also better with people than she gives herself credit for and its why she makes a good leader. (and even if you pick the "came off strong" option clem is OBVIOUSLY teasing about it but vi cant tell and gets defensive ("its not like im trying to be bffs or whatever. sorry" is so "you want to kiss me so bad it makes you look stupid" of her)

and then after this shes never mean to clem again?? (unless you antagonize her but even then its mostly just about her standing her ground and not taking shit she doesnt deserve. which is fair). shes only mean to brody while fishing (and shes mean to brody because deep down she blames HERSELF) and the whole POINT of that scene is to try and mend their broken relationship which immediately makes vi a happier/nicer person if you do (also interesting how louis doesnt get any shit for His behavior while hunting 🤨 no hes just cool and fun). violet also apologizes for being "weird" in the dorms the previous night as well (bby girl why are you afraid that everything you do is weird 😭 she says that word a lot)

violet will Always have clems back (in EP1 and 2!!) No Matter What you do or say to her. i think people take her loyalty for granted. so if you dont save her in EP2 and expect to continue to have her unwavering loyalty in EP3? thats a You problem. she is Fucked Up mentally on that boat by lilly and her not-exactly-ex, and then gets caught in the explosion she didnt want anything to do with. AND THEN SHE APOLOGIZES because she recognizes she was WRONG

(not her literally trying to make a joke about it to ease the tension 😭 people dont give her credit for also having a sense of humor. like louis is the only one who cracks jokes around here) but again when it comes to kenny his actions are understandable and defendable even without an apology 🙄 i literally side with kenny on Everything except the larry thing and if you dont make the right dialogue choice with him? he will not help you look for clem. because of larry 😐 i killed your son for you bro and then took care of his walker doppelganger so you didnt have to. and this isnt even touching his behavior in S2. and yet despite everything he does hes still one of the most beloved characters in the fandom 🤨

i just have to remind myself sometimes that all vi options were made 53-61% and the vi haters are a loud minority. her always being above 50% is so interesting to me because i love when choices are split perfectly 50/50. but the way the fandom talks about her (and the women in general) you wouldnt think shes technically the more popular option (and i Hate playing the popularity card its so annoying, but im only doing it bc people also say shit like "maybe if vi wasnt so mean more people would pick her" they DO pick her!!! you just got mad she was mean for 5 seconds, never payed attention to her again, and used her determinate reaction on the boat as justification for not liking her 😑) (also ignores how mean louis gets in EP2 regardless of choice?? but like kenny His actions are defendable and sympathetic and hers arent 🙄)

[puppyeared]

isnt it great when u take your adhd meds and instead of using that brainpower for stuff like ASSIGNMENTS. AND PROJECTS. your brain decides the next 6 hours will be brainstorming ponysona names and making oc playlists

[fungus-no69]

I title this one the weird ass clown guy i found under my shoe

They a bit (a lot) unhinged

[hellosunnycore]

✧ serenity ✧