She-Ra: Progressive of Power
Episode 3: "The Sea Hawk" & "Return of the Sea Hawk" - Gender Roles
This week, we’re taking on the episodes routinely referred to as the “romance” shows. Adora gets a boyfriend — or does She-Ra? What do we think of Sea Hawk’s portrayal and, more importantly, Adora’s reaction to him? Why does Loo-Kee think you should just tell everyone you have a crush on, and what precisely is wrong with Saraha?
[The 80s theme song plays, upbeat music with an occasional chorus of ‘She-Ra!’]
ERIC: I'm Eric.
LAUREN: And I'm Lauren.
ERIC: We've both volunteered for progressive political causes.
LAUREN: And we're both nerds.
ERIC: Growing up, She-Ra is one of my favorite shows.
LAUREN: I've never seen it before.
ERIC: Catching it on Netflix again recently, it struck me how modern the show still feels.
LAUREN: Even though it's definitely a product of its time.
[continued audio clip of the 80s theme song]
LAUREN: We're interested in the ways She-Ra presents a modern progressive message.
ERIC: And the ways in which it fails.
LAUREN: Join us each week as we dive deep into a different She-Ra story.
ERIC: Always with an eye on how it relates to the present.
LAUREN: We're only doing episodes from the first season, so you can follow along on Netflix.
ERIC: But we'll also recap the episodes so you don't have to.
LAUREN: We'd love to hear your feedback on everything we're discussing.
ERIC: So please enjoy this political, nerdy dive into a heck of a cartoon.
ERIC AND LAUREN IN UNISON: This is She-Ra, Progressive of Power.
[audio clip of the 80s theme song ends]
ERIC: Welcome to Progressive of Power. I'm Eric.
LAUREN: And I'm Lauren.
ERIC: How are you today Lauren? I know—I know it's been kind of a—a trying day.
LAUREN: I have. I've had a trying day, uh… in kind of Chicago style. I left my car unlocked and got some change stolen out of it. But nothing else was taken so that's fine. I guess, I guess, you know, I can learn a valuable lesson and be grateful that it wasn't worse. [laughs]
ERIC: I bet there's a Loo-Kee moral somewhere about locking your car at night.
LAUREN: [laughs and affects a silly voice] 'Don't forget…!'
ERIC: I—I hope uh, talking about a silly cartoon show from 22 years ago will make you feel better.
LAUREN: So much it will. No doubt.
ERIC: So today we are covering two episodes that are basically one episode. Uh the Sea Hawk, and Return of the Sea Hawk. So, some background. You know, it's really funny, all of the creative team on She-Ra: Princess of Power, refer to these episodes as 'the relationship episodes'. And just because of all of He-Man and She-Ra, there's only really ever been one romance that has even been so in the forefront, like for our main character, that it—it deserves being called a romance. And that is the romance between Adora and Sea Hawk.
So we're going to talk about that. But Sea Hawk essentially is, uh, a pirate. And he's a pirate who uh, starts out working for the Horde, kind of. He thinks that he's free. But basically, he like steals from poor little elves and gives stuff to Hordak. The first mate, who is like named Swen, who is not at all a fan of the Horde, is like, 'oh, maybe you can convince our captain that he should start helping the rebels.'
And—this is pretty cool. Adora just flat out is like, 'Hey, you suck. Why are you helping the bad guys?' And Sea Hawk's like, 'Well, 'cause we're free," which I think is… is interesting. He kind of makes the argument, 'Hey, the Horde pays me. And so I get to do what I want. I don't have to live in shackles like the rest of Etheria.' Uh. But things kind of change. He starts to think like, 'Hey, maybe Adora is right. Maybe I don't have that much freedom.' So he comes to his senses and saves Adora, which then allows Adora to turn into She-Ra and save him, which… I'm sure we'll talk about that as well. And that's the first part of the episode, and the second part, the Return of Sea Hawk isn't… it's not that interesting, except that it really focuses on the relationship, but essentially Catra and Grizzlor want revenge, so they capture all these poor elves, put them on a prison ship, and then they say Adora and Sea Hawk have to come rescue them. But of course She-Ra and Sea Hawk do and… Kind of the big play of that episode is, it's an inversion of the Superman-Clark Kent thing where—Adora—a gender inversion, right, where Adora is really worried that Sea Hawk loves She-Ra, but not her. But Adora is the one who likes Sea Hawk. So that's kind of the world that we're getting into. Uh. These are the relationship episodes. And so I thought it would be cool to talk about this in relation to gender roles, because there are some inversions in this episode, I think, and also some [laughs] very stereotypical moments. So with that all said, uh Lauren, what's your take on—on the Sea Hawk saga?
LAUREN: So I—I think the… vulnerability part of that? Was really special. And I enjoyed watching that scene, because it does address, sort of the struggle of being a superhero and the sacrifices you have to make and the inner conflict that it can cause, I think. Growing up you see so many comic book characters and action heroes, and you're like 'man, superpowers are awesome', and I really love as just a, you know, science fiction and comic book fan—Seeing when those characters are allowed to face the issues that can come along with being a hero. And even though it's kind of the girly-girl like, 'what if I can't have a boyfriend?' stereotypical issue, I like it in this just from that general place. Sometimes being a hero comes with struggle that you wouldn't have experienced if you hadn't taken on this duty.
ERIC: And I think that She-Ra also, you know, there is that pitfall of the 'a woman defining herself through her romantic relationships' but I think She-Ra the series pretty deftly avoids that, because the token male that we love talking about, Bow is never ever presented as like, some romantic partner, like most of the time Adora is just like a leader of these warriors and that's what she is and that's awesome. And it's only this one guy who kind of makes her feel that way. Which I think is kind of cool, that like, it would have been easy to be like 'Okay, so Bow's the man, and so Adora loves Bow. That's just how it is', but that's not ever a thing in this—in the show.
LAUREN: Yeah, I appreciate that they show a female lead that can have friendships with male characters. We so often, uh, as women are portrayed in the media as Girlfriends, or Potential Girlfriends, or Former Girlfriends, and you know to—to—to this day there's this kind of cultural question all around us, like 'Can a man and a woman ever be friends?' and… Yeah, thank you, show from 1986 for at least in a—in a little way saying that they can.
ERIC: Yeah, I do regret a little that Bow was not in these episodes. I—I don't know that he ever meets Sea Hawk. I could be wrong. I'm sure fans out there will send me angry tweets if I'm wrong, but uh maybe partially that's because his voice and Sea Hawk's voice are so close [laughs].
LAUREN: They also, I mean, there's a—more than a slight resemblance between them, too. We got the kind of redhead mustache thing going on.
ERIC: Yes, absolutely. Although I think we're supposed to see, you know, you used the term in our first episode that Bow was very extra? And I think Sea Hawk is supposed to be more like the Han Solo. Like he's, he's, is like the shit, but he knows it, but he doesn't have to like put it in your face.
[clip from Return of the Sea Hawk, 3:05]
ADORA: Madam Razz, can we talk?
RAZZ: Of course, dearie. Now, what is it you wanted to talk about?
ADORA: Um, Sea Hawk.
RAZZ, SCANDALIZED: Sea Hawk?! That pirate rascal?
ADORA: Well, pirate or not, he risked his life to save me.
[scene change trill as we flashback to The Sea Hawk]
SHE-RA: I suspect in your heart that you'd rather fight for freedom than for profit.
SEA HAWK: Well, I never cared much for those Horde swabs anyway. All right, She-Ra. From now on, Sea Hawk is with the Rebellion.
[scene change trill as flashback ends]
RAZZ: Oh, yes. [titters] What a story. So romantic.
ADORA: Romantic.. for She-Ra?
RAZZ: [loud gasp] Aha! You think that Sea Hawk likes She-Ra more than he likes Adora.
ADORA: And I can't tell him they're both me!
RAZZ: Well… Perhaps Adora should tell him how Adora feels.
[clip ends]
LAUREN: I don't love why she feels so strongly about Sea Hawk. So when we did Sea Hawk and then Return of Sea Hawk, I was expecting there to be maybe a big time jump between the two episodes, or maybe we were supposed to get that somethings happened between them off-screen, which I really would have liked, if we opened up Return of Sea Hawk and said, 'Oh, we see, we work with Sea Hawk now, we go on many adventures with him, and now our relationship's more established and we're tuning back in'. But when Adora is in the woods with Madame Razz kind of pouring her heart out, we literally see the flashback to the moment where Sea Hawk rescued Adora.
And Adora's basing her feelings, it seems just kind of primarily on that, which is a very… 80s kids' cartoon mishandling of women, I think, like, 'Oh, he saved me. Therefore, a relationship has to happen now'. And I just wish there were more. I remember being a little girl, playing on the playground or at other girls' houses, some of the TV shows we used to love to watch. And I can remember specifically emulating the episode of Power Rangers where the Pink Ranger was trapped in a genie bottle. So some girl on the playground had to be trapped the whole time. Or we would play Aladdin and we'd say, Jasmine is captured, you have to be captured in the closet for a while. And that seemed so [voice pitches higher in distaste] normal? to me as a kid, because 'kidnapping and rescue by a man' plots were just so common in the late 80s and early 90s. I had such high hopes for there to be more substance here. And in terms of why she falls for Sea Hawk, I wasn't, frankly, seeing it.
ERIC: The fact that then, after Sea Hawk swoops in and saves Adora, then She-Ra saves Sea Hawk, that doesn't really redeem anything for you?
LAUREN: It's not that it does or doesn't redeem it, um… I don't think it redeems the fact that she kind of fell for him over this minimal exchange of… of moments, like rescue should never result in this level of, of adoration. However, I do think She-Ra was owed that. So it's not that it redeems it or does this great massive gender role flip for me. It's that this is She-Ra's show. This is a show that's supposed to empower girls. And they damn well better have given her an opportunity to rescue him. And so it's not that I'm… impressed. It's that I'm like, 'Well… You did meet the bar where I setit at least, so good—good job, -ish.'
[clip from The Sea Hawk, 17:16]
SEA HAWK: Broil me in butter and call me a flounder, that was a close one. I don't know who you are lass, but I owe you for that one.
SHE-RA: The name's She-Ra. I'm a friend of Adora, and of the Rebellion.
SEA HAWK, CONCERNED: Adora… did she get away?
SHE-RA: Yes, thanks to you. Now, about what you owe me…
SEA HAWK: Name it, my lovely. Jewels? Gowns? Gold?
SHE-RA: I want you to stop helping the Horde and start helping the Rebellion.
SEA HAWK: Me? But I'm a pirate.
SHE-RA: You are also clever, and not afraid of the Horde. And I suspect that in your heart, you'd rather fight for freedom than profit.
SEA HAWK: You seem to know me pretty well. All right, She-Ra. From now on, Sea Hawk is with the Rebellion.
SHE-RA: Glad to have you.
SEA HAWK: Not half as glad as I am. Now, what say we wrap up these Horde squids and send them back to old Bony?
[end clip]
ERIC: I think… You could make an argument, maybe not a great one that… uh… And it's certainly not expressed in the text, but that part of Adora's attraction to Sea Hawk, is because maybe she views him as kind of an equal? Um. And there's no, like, weird chain of command issues, like they're—they're separate... You know, they fight for the same cause, but in separate ways, and they're both kind of leaders, and they both have a lot of the same values, uh, and they can have adventures together. I think all of that is probably true and also not really expressed in the show. [chuckles]
LAUREN: Yeah, I think, um… if I were more than… what I am now, like if I were a big fan of this show and really wrapped up in watching it each week and getting into the lore, uh, especially back when it was first coming out, I think I'd write a lot of those stories in while watching it, because that—that stuff is there to be found. They're both sort of the leaders of their respective Merry Men, you know, they're both sort of doing this Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves thing. Uh. And I think they could be compatible, and it probably is a good match in the end, which is why I was a little bit disappointed that they didn't give them more of those moments to bring those truths up to the front. I don't like having to write it in for myself.
ERIC: Yeah, I think even though these are touted as 'the relationship episodes', there's just not a lot here. And I think that fans have remembered these more kindly than they're actually presented, because at their heart, like, especially Return of Sea Hawk, it's just an adventure story with like a little little bit of emotion. And the Sea Hawk is more about, I think, about convincing someone who's war profiteering that, 'hey, maybe you're exploiting people' than it is about forming a relationship, to the point where it even comes a little bit out of nowhere that She-Ra has this attraction for Sea Hawk. It seems like it's not seated at all. So that is weird.
[clip from The Sea Hawk, 5:06]
ADORA: What do you think about all this Spirit?
SEA HAWK: So, our mysterious lady talks to horses, does she?
ADORA: You startled me, Captain.
SEA HAWK: Hawk. Sea Hawk. My men call me Captain, but uh, you can just call me Hawk.
ADORA: I'd rather just call you Traitor.
SEA HAWK: Traitor? Woman, I should have you thrown overboard.
ADORA: Go ahead. I don't want to be on the same ship with a man who works for the Horde.
SEA HAWK, DEFENSIVELY: I work for no one but myself.
ADROA: Hordak pays you, doesn't he?
SEA HAWK: My men and I are free. While the rest of this planet bows to the Horde, we roam the seas.
ADORA: And prey on your own people.
SEA HAWK: But we are free. As free as... as free as this seaferry. Free to roam wherever we will.
ADORA: Until the Horde decides to stop you. No one on this planet will truly be free, including you, until the day that Hordak and his evil empire leave this planet forever.
SEA HAWK: You speak bold words, woman. I will think on what you say.
[end clip]
LAUREN: To your point about the relationship only being a portion of this episode, and a big part of it is also actually encouraging another hero to rise up against the Horde. One of my favorite shows when I was very little, also an 80s cartoon, was Johnny Quest. And I did love the Real Adventures of Johnny Quest as well when that came out, but like original, standard grade Johnny Quest. There weren't a lot of action shows made for me, made for girls. And so I kind of just let myself watch that one, even though it was clearly quote-unquote 'for boys'. And the moment when Catra's ship is seen for the first time and they're like, 'hmm, I don't see any weapons. That's unusual.' And then there's this amazing like, long sequence where just a ton of guns flip out of the ship and just every surface of this—of this vessel turns into guns to the point where the last couple, especially the like railgun that the robot is sitting behind, like—there was no more room for more guns on this ship, and yet, more guns. I thought it was awesome. [laughs delightedly] And uh, I love seeing that in a cartoon that is, you know, 'for girls.' Girls can have those really over the top action sequences, too.
I think in episode one, you said… seeing Wonder Woman brought you to discussing this show, and thinking about this show again. And I thought of you when we literally throw She-Ra at a ship like she's just an explosive cannonball or something. Because that's what Wonder Woman does in that belltower in the—in the modern, the most recent film that came out. Just using this woman as a projectile weapon. And I—when I saw Wonder Woman, because I hadn't seen She-Ra yet, I was like, 'What a powerhouse. I've never seen anything like that before.' And I was just in awe that… it had been done before. A long time ago.
I like that you mentioned Han Solo earlier in this episode as well, uh, my husband Clayton is a big Han Solo fan and loves to talk about Han's hero's journey in A New Hope. In that the thing that sets Han Solo apart, and that turns him into a hero instead of just a profiteering scoundrel and puts him decidedly on the side of the Rebellion instead of neutral is when he turns the Millennium Falcon around. He leaves with his money and there's the question out in the air, 'is he not gonna come back?' and he does. During that run on the Death Star, Han turns the ship around, and there he is at just a pivotal moment and pretty much exactly just so, Sea Hawk also leaves with his money and then turns the ship around. It's not a coincidence, I—I think that's pretty derivative.
ERIC: I—I think so. And he has a laser sword.
LAUREN: Yeah, he does.
ERIC: Yeah.
LAUREN: Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah he does. There's a lot to love in this episode. Um—As I mentioned in a previous episode what I'm trying to do, is, um, have a kind of constant dialogue with myself about femininity, and there were things in this episode like Adora had an empathy-related superpower that was very like Deanna Troi [[1]] and so, one note that I wrote down about her—when she's Adora, more than once, in quick sequence, she is very forgiving. As she's being arrested and hauled off, she—she says something like 'perhaps he had no choice' and then a couple seconds later 'I'm sure you did what you thought best, Sea Hawk' and there's something very touching and admirable about that part of her? That she's a karate-kicking superhero but also has such a deep capacity to forgive—because I don't think she's being sarcastic in those moments.
ERIC: No, I don't think so either.
LAUREN: And forgiveness is not a trait that I think I share. I think I'm a pretty judgy, uh grudge-holding person, and as I try to imagine myself as a young girl… who would be presented with She-Ra as a role model, I think that would have been a great thing, for me, growing up, to have more instances in which forgiveness is not just like a feminine obligation to be ladylike, but it's something that like badasses also do.
[clip from The Sea Hawk, 9:55]
SWEN: I—I don't believe it! He's turned you in! I—I'm so sorry, I never really thought he'd do it!
ADORA: Oh it's not your fault, Swen. Perhaps he had no choice.
[music change]
SEA HAWK, RELUCTANTLY: I, uh.. I'm sorry, Adora.
ADORA: No apologies, Captain. I'm sure you did as you thought best.
[clip ends]
ERIC: So there's some neat real-world background on uh, on the Sea Hawk character. So Sea Hawk, as you may have deduced, was based on an Errol Flynn character. In fact named after a 1940 Errol Flynn movie called The Sea Hawk. Now I didn't know anything about this movie and I'm sure fucking glad that I googled it before we recorded this, because here's some fun trivia about that movie. The Sea Hawk is about Sir Francis Drake, the Elizabethan English explorer although in the movie his name is changed to like Jeffrey something[[Transcriber's note: Geoffrey Thorpe]]—for no reason. But he's playing Sir Francis Drake and there's a really great review in The Guardian from 2012 which lets us know that The Sea Hawk is a thinly veiled anti-Nazi propaganda movie, where the Spanish stand in as the bad guys and the Elizabethans only plunder the Spaniards in the name of freedom. In other words, Sir Francis Drake takes treasure from the King of Spain because the King of Spain is a despot and doesn't believe that all men should be free. That doesn't strictly relate to the themes of this episode of She-Ra, but boy I thought that was really interesting how—you know, just talking about how, you know, the victor writes history and white people with cultural capital tend to dictate narratives. Because boy I don't really think that's true of the Elizabethan era of exploration. Pretty sure Queen Elizabeth wasn't sending ships out there because she was an egalitarian.
LAUREN: Clearly it's not a complete parallel to this episode, but someone in creating this episode read or knew that history. There's enough there that I believe that. Before we wrap that up I do want to note, that this show is still very funny. Uh, we didn't talk a lot about the comedy in this sort of recap, but… [laughing] they cut to Catra drinking just like from a saucer of milk at one point? And no one mentions it. It's just like part of the set dressing of the moment. It's just—
ERIC: That was commitment.
LAUREN: It's just the literal cat things. She's just getting down on a [laughs again] saucer of milk in a very otherwise serious, like, series of events. I love that. I love that this show still chooses to do that.
ERIC: Regarding comedy I definitely want to talk about this before we move to the moral. The end of Return of the Sea Hawk. [laughs] 'If you take a walk with me I could explain it to you'. Like where 'take a walk' becomes this euphemism for like, I mean I know it's innocent but it just sounds so dirty to me especially when then Swen asked Madam Razz if she would like to take a walk?
LAUREN: That whole thing was not only filthy, but then it even escalated to… the broom?
ERIC, LAUGHING: Yeah, where Broom was like 'hey what am I supposed to do?' And Madam Razz says 'find a mop'.
LAUREN: And Broom like, goes, [adopts a suave voice] 'maybe I will.'
[they both laugh]
ERIC: That—that was so absurd and that—that definitely made me laugh out loud.
[clip from the end of Return of the Sea Hawk plays]
SEA HAWK: Adora! Hello. What are you doing here? I thought She-Ra would meet us.
ADORA: Sorry to disappoint you.
SEA HAWK: Disappoint me? I'm not disappointed, I'm glad.
ADORA: Oh?
SEA HAWK: She-Ra was fun to fight beside but I'd much rather spend time with you.
ADORA: You—you would?
SEA HAWK: If you'll take a walk with me we can talk about it.
ADORA: I'd like that.
RAZZ: [coos]
SWEN: Madam Razz.
RAZZ: Oh, Swen.
SWEN: I thought you might like to have a little stroll with me. I could tell you all about my adventures with the Sea Hawk.
RAZZ: Oh [laughs] dearie my, well well, you bet I would. Oh that is, I think I can spare a few moments. I mean minutes.
BROOM: Hey, what about me?
RAZZ: Well why don't you just find yourself a nice friendly mop.
BROOM, INDIGNANTLY: A mop? [he pauses to consider it] Hmm… Wonder if I could find one.
[end of clip]
ERIC: I don't think the moral in this episode is as egregiously bad as it was in Duel of Devlin. I only want to talk about the second one, uh because I think… I think that's where the comedy gold lies. For our purposes. Uh. In Return of the Sea Hawk, the moral is, "In today's story, Adora and Sea Hawk liked each other, but they were afraid to admit it. Once they did, they became good friends. Everyone wants to be liked. If you like someone, tell them. And who knows? They may even say, 'I like you,' right back."
LAUREN: And then you can go on a walk.
ERIC, LAUGHING: Right. It's like, I'm not sure if, like, again, it's supposed to be innocent, but 'good friends' sound so dirty.
LAUREN: Well, sure. And given that the last moral we discussed was like, 'if you're being bullied… get on the horn and tell somebody!' And this time it's, 'if you like someone… get on the horn and tell somebody!'
ERIC: Right. Which, again, not great advice.
LAUREN: Right. Every time I watch this show, like poor childhood-bullied Lauren is like, 'no, because then that boy would just make fun of me forever. You're, you know, first through eighth grade. I had a kid I liked in kindergarten. I heard about it for years!' Don't do this to me, She-Ra. You're throwing me into the bus over and over.
ERIC: I also want to point out that, like, sometimes confessions of, well, Loo-Kee is clearly using 'like' to mean something more, he means—
LAUREN: Like-like.
ERIC: He wants to take a watch—take a walk with these people.
LAUREN: [laughs]
ERIC: So I think, I think… Yeah, there's points where like confessions of your feelings can be used as like a weapon? And that's really not cool. And I think you need to be very cognizant of that. Like as a, as a nerdy dude, like, let me tell all the other nerdy dudes, you can't just go around like, telling people, 'Hey, I like you' and then expect them to respond. That's not how it works. And that's not cool. I do want to say this though, in the week that we're recording this, this app called Saraha has become all the rage.
LAUREN: I hate it.
ERIC: I hate it too. And in trying to articulate my hatred, I find myself seeing exactly what Loo-Kee says in this moral. If you like someone, tell them.
LAUREN: But not anonymously.
ERIC: Not anonymously. That's right. In, in a non-romantic setting, I want to come out fully on the side of like, if you have something nice to say to somebody, don't hold back. Just tell them you don't need an app. Just tell them how you feel. It's going to mean a hundred times more.
LAUREN: Yeah. Well, yes, obviously I agree with that. It's why I don't have a Saraha and never will because I try to cultivate open and honest relationships. And I'm a very forward person. You may have noticed. And I just feel like if someone has something to say, particularly positive, the stakes are so low on that. If I've cultivated a good friendship with you, I want you to be able to say those things… with your name on them, to my face. And if you can't, what are we even doing here?
ERIC: Yeah. So in that respect, I want to come out on Loo-Kee's side. If you like somebody, tell them. If you're trying to take a walk with them, maybe consider your approach a little more.
LAUREN: [laughs]
[EPISODE OUTRO]
ERIC: Thanks for listening to She-Ra: Progressive of Power. If you like our show, you can write and review us on Apple podcasts. We'd super appreciate it. You can also send us any feedback you have, either to our email address,
[email protected], or as a comment on our website at progressiveapower.wordpress.com.
LAUREN: An organization making great strides for gender equality is the Transgender Law Center. Their mission is to change law, policy, and attitudes so that all people can live safely, authentically, and free from discrimination regardless of their gender identity or expression. Their 2017 Plan for Resistance is an easy-to-understand list of ways TLC is adapting to succeed under our current administration. Visit transgenderlawcenter.org to get more information or donate.
[outro to ��I have the Power”]
ERIKA SCHEIMER AND NOAM KANIEL: [As She-Ra and He-Man] For the honor of love, we have the power so can you.
ANNOTATIONS:
[[1]] Deanna Troi is a character from Star Trek: The Next Generation. Betazoids are telepathic aliens, but as she's half-human her psychic powers are somewhat diminished, so instead of reading minds she can read emotions (at least, at first). I've never watched TNG feel free to correct me here.
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