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Episode 114 Transcript: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn’t Work

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Well, today, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat," written by- It says here, “teleplay by Brett Matthews, story by Brett Matthews and Jenny Klein, directed by Robert Singer.” This is a Singer episode. There's one zoom, and I did notice it, and I was like, "Ah! A zoom!"

C: Wait, when was it?

G: I think it was when they're about to go meet Meg, right after they talk to Samuel, in the scene where Samuel is like, "[Samuel voice] I'm gonna bring Mary back, [C laughs] and you cannot stop me." they zoom out of Sam and Dean's face. Lovely!

C: Okay. It's a reverse Robert Singer zoom?

G: Oh, no, no, no! They zoom in, and then they head out of the barn or wherever they are.

C: I see, I understand.

G: And I recognized Robert Singer completely. It was so subtle, too. It was like he was trying to hide who he is, [C laughs] but I will know him wherever he goes, whatever he does.

C: Yeah. Brett Matthews previously did “Live Free or Twihard,” which we did not like. [G: Yeah.] Jenny Klein previously did "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester," which we had mixed feelings on?

G: Yeah, this was the one with the Irish guy, right? [C: Yeah.] Loved him. So yeah, love it completely.

C: Oh, yeah, Sampatrick rights.

G: [laughing] I mean, to be fair, hindsight produces some really good memories. Because when you said "Live Free or Twihard," and you were like, "We didn't like," I was like, "Is that true?" [both laugh] But I was like, "Wasn't that the one where Dean gets turned into a vampire? That's such a fun concept!" And it is such a fun concept.

C: It is a fun concept. Except the rest of the concepts were teenage sex slaves that they made fun of the whole time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: I knew that this was the episode with the Megstiel kiss, which she does it in order to get his angel blade, and that sometime in this episode, Dean has a line for Cas where he's like, "I would have given you an hour to fuck Meg before I killed her." Great. Love it. I knew that there would be some conflict between Crowley and Meg over some sort of political issue in Hell. I didn't know that it was in this episode, but obviously, I've seen "Will you, boy?" [laughs]

G: Of course! That's what makes them good in bed, etc.

C: Literally. Literally. And also, the pizza man. The thing. [G: Yeah.] The beginning of the pizza man- not cold open. The "Then" sequence? [G laughs] The pizza man "Then" sequence. It's here.

G: Literally! So many seasons from now. That's in Season 15, I'm pretty sure. Is that true?

C: It's gotta be 8, right? No?

G: No, that's like, in Season 15!

C: Wait. What was the relevance of the pizza man [laughing] in Season 15?

G: [laughs] Literally nothing! [laughs] It literally is just a scene where Cas goes, "If the pizza truly loved the babysitter," [both laughing] and then, like, what's her name? Ruby opening the door-

C: [laughing] And then a bunch of scenes of Dean specifically eating pizza. [both laughing] [G: The Destiel warriors-] I just feel like if it was Season 15 they would have thrown in a scene of Cas babysitting Nora's baby [both laugh] [G: No, yeah.] as well to really drive it home.

G: Well, we will see you when this cold open happens, and it will surprise us both. [both laughing] It's one of those things that like, if I told someone who is not into Supernatural, they'd be like, "I think you're like looking too much into things." But like, it really did happen on my screen.

C: Yeah, it did.

G: Obviously, you've seen the boob contraption.

C: Yeah, I mean, they did it to Jo and Ruby before. Classic.

G: Yeah. Obviously, you've seen it before. Is that true? Like, you know it happens to Meg.

C: I think I did, but I just didn't really remember it. I just assume every hot woman on Supernatural gets to be in the boobstrap table.

G: Who is evil, yeah.

C: Jo's not evil.

G: Who? Oh, yeah!

C: Didn't they do it to Jo?

G: Is that true?

C: Did they not?

G: I don't know. It's been years since we did that episode, probably. [laughs]

C: True. Whatever it was, it's been years.

G: It's been years, it's been so long.

C: I wonder if there's a page for boobstrap table Supernatural. I'm not getting anything.

G: Yeah. Before we start, I do want to say, I don't like this episode, and Crystal does.

C: Yeah, I do.

G: So that's gonna be interesting. Why do you like it? What are the reasons why?

C: I think that after 6.09, it is a very interesting look into the ways that Sam, being soulless, actually does make him a good hunter, [G: Yeah.] especially in the context of these demons that he seems to relate to in a way and seem to relate to him back. I like Meg, unlike you, and I think the reasons that you dislike her are very good. [G laughs] However, I do wuv her still, so it was good to see her. It was good to see Cas. I liked seeing his silly little face. And yeah, I don't know. It just had two characters that I like, and I thought that there were interesting themes and motifs going on.

G: Yeah. Well, the reasons why I didn't like this episode is that I think I am at a point where I'm just so tired of plot episodes. I want a case episode. And with episodes like this, it feels like there's no like room to breathe, you know? Because there's so many things happening. Actually, this one, there's not a lot that happened. It's all just bullshit.

C: It's one mission.

G: It still feels so rushed and so I don't know, like, "Okay, who give a shit?" [laughs] And I understand that these are essential episodes. We need episodes like this to keep the show plot going, but who give a shit, you know?

C: Doesn't it feel rushed because Cas and Crowley are kind of engineering things behind the scenes anyway?

G: Yeah.

C: It feels off because we revisit this in 6.20, and we're like, "Oh my god! Those weren't even his bones!"

G: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, I don't know. I just- I hate everyone. I hate Samuel. [C: Yeah.] I hate Dean. I hate Meg. I hate Castiel in this episode. [C: Gasp.] I hate Crowley in this episode. I mean, actually, Crowley and Sam are fine. Samstiel real. No, that's not- Crowstiel?

C: Cram rights.

G: Cram! How can I forget? How dare I? Well, Cram rights. Sam and Crowley are completely fine this episode. Love Sam. Love Sam! Love Sam! Everyone was so fucking annoying, and-

C: Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Of course I know that he fucking chewed through his arm to make a demon trap.

G: Yeah, love that. And then the little grin. Love it! Anyway, let's start with our episode. We start with Crowley tied up to a chair, beaten up bloody. But then, obviously, this is not Crowley. This is a shapeshifter, and the alpha shapeshifter that has turned into Crowley. And the real Crowley is going about torturing this guy. And every time that Crowley tortures now, I do always remember when you said, "They always tout him as like, 'He's good at making deals,' etc, and the only deal he makes is like, 'I'm gonna kill you!'" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

G: And he's going here, "I'm gonna kill and torture you!" and that's the deal.

C: And then he does. He does both of those things.

G: Yeah, I mean, he keeps to his word. We gotta give him that. That's the entire groove of the conversation. Crowley's saying, "Get me to Purgatory. I know you know where it is. I know you can draw me a map," blah blah blah blah blah blah. And the alpha is like, "No, I don't. No, I don't." [C laughs] And then at some point, Crowley says that he has a whole nursery of all the baby shapeshifters, and then he holds up the phone [C: Baby monitor.] or the baby monitor, I think, [C: Yeah.] to make the alpha listen to the crying sounds. But then he says he'll kill them if you don't tell me. And the alpha goes, "Okay!" And then Crowley kills the guy. RIP. Rest in Purgatory.

C: Real. For real. It doesn't matter if you kill an alpha of a species? It's just whatever?

G: Yeah, like, literally. Because they portray these characters as super powerful with- I suppose it's only the vampire that they make it like they have a-

C: The alpha shapeshifter attacks them in- what? 6.02? And there's a whole, "You can't do it. You can't take them down." Yeah.

G: No, what I mean is the psychic connection with everyone, it's only the vampire that they show that about, right?

C: Right, that's true. So it's not like the alpha shapeshifter could call every shapeshifter over to help. [G: Yeah.] But why not?

G: And also, it implies the idea that if the alpha vampire, if he gets killed, it's like losing like a leader for real, [C: Right.] with an impact of losing that, versus the alpha shapeshifter, where it's like whatever. [laughs] Like, who give a shit?

C: Yeah. Was there nothing about like somebody sensing the father or whatever in 6.02 with the shapeshifters?

G: I don't recall, but I don't think so. [C: Okay.] You get a splash screen. We go to Sam and Dean.

C: God! I don't know. I did not like this opening scene. [G: Why?] The guy's just tied up with regular chains. We have whatever Supernatural's stupidass torture thing is. Crowley, at some point, pulls out the world's most boring looking knife, and he's like, [G: Yeah, and he has this whole speech.] "This is the most rare weapon ever, and it can hurt you for real!" Like, okay. Can it look cool at least? It just means that Crowley's entire operation is just he's telling Samuel to capture alphas, torture them, and then hand them over to him for more torture, which isn't even better than Samuel's torture. Is there literally nothing else you can do like? Maybe there's like a scientific fucking test you can do on like a skin sample to like, figure out the ash levels in Purgatory or whatever. I don't care. This is just boring. I don't care.

G: Yeah, it's obviously not working anymore, so like, are they really so fucking clueless about what to do? Zero ideas? Zero further moves to make?

C: Yeah, if torture doesn't work, I'll just torture some more? [G laughs]

G: Literally. And they built an entire compound out of it. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And if the compound's meant to enact, I don't know, psychological torture as well, then I don't really see the point of killing the alpha shapeshifter right now. Killing him means there's literally no further leads that Crowley thinks that he can pursue with this character, and that just doesn't bode well, I think, for this whole plan. And I think it lowers the stakes or just makes it seem less doable, so we're less invested.

G: And it doesn't even feel like the shifter has been there for a long time from what we see. [C: Yeah.] So like, okay. [C: Yeah.] What Supernatural should be doing is better torture, [both laugh] is what we seem to be advocating.

C: Yeah, I think it is [laughs] that if Supernatural must have torture in it at the level that it does, and as the only solution it has, add a little nuance! Add a little flair! [both laugh] Whatever, dumb. And after he decapitates the alpha shapeshifter, he goes, "Oh, I kind of lost my head there." Who is that for, Crowley? Shut up! I don't like you very much. You're annoying.

G: It's for us!

C: Well, he doesn't know we're here.

G: Or does he?

C: Or does he? I'm the one who supposedly likes this episode. [both laugh] I do. Just not this scene.

C: Sam and Dean are pulling up to these two demons with a car, and they're bringing in a rugaru. Maybe the alpha rugaru. They want to know where Crowley is and why they can only interact with his henchmen. But you know, it just doesn't work. The demon calls them women in two different ways, and then leaves.

G: No, it's a whole extended bit. He's committed to this joke that like, "Oh, really? Well, maybe you stop being a girl." [C laughs] Like, what is going on?

C: Yeah, yeah. What is going on? I mean, Brett Matthews, the only other thing he's written has also had monsters being more misogynistic than we usually see them to be. I feel like vampires weren't the level of misogyny that we saw them in “Live Free or Twihard,” so this could just be a continuation of him thinking what a cool, evil thing to say is?

G: It's also like- I also did get a little bit pissed off. Not pissed off, I just rolled my eyes in the scene where the demon is like, saying his magic line that is supposed to impose fear in Sam and Dean's heart or whatever. And then he changes his eyes to the demon eyes, even though we already knew he was a demon.

C: No, literally!

G: And it's like so fucking corny, tired, and played out. And they played a sound effect of like, "Tuh-tuh!" [C laughs] Like, okay. [laughs] We get it. We don't care.

C: I remember that Christian was possessed by a demon and then you took him away or whatever. That was like, in 6.07, right? That's three episodes ago. If you cared that much, just put it in the then sequence, and then don't do it here.

So Sam and Dean go back to their place, and Dean's just super done with working for Crowley. He mentions that the only thing that's really changed is that now he "needs a daily rape shower," which I think is the start of, though there's also been hints earlier with Crowley saying that he's gonna torture the shapeshifter with a speculum - and I think the demon calling them a little bitch just then - where one of the like ongoing things throughout this episode is like a real, strong focus on the like, demons and sexual assault aspect of demonhood, where a lot of demons assert their power through sexual harassment, and like, I don't know. I think in the past, there was "demon possession is akin to-"

G: As an allegory, yeah.

C: Right. I feel like this episode, it's a little bit more the- I mean, here, it's more the other way around where it's like using rape as a metaphor for interacting with demons rather than using demons as a metaphor for experiencing rape, which I feel like was more how this started.

G: Yeah, yeah.

C: But yeah, I mean, I don't really have a fully-formed thought on that. I think it happens that metaphors end up being two ways sometimes, but I don't know. One of these things is real, and one of them isn't. But anyway, yeah. They get really hard into this thing right now and then yeah, later, I think it's more just rape and demon possession and demons are just two separate things, but rape is a tool that demons use in order to assert power and torture, and all that, which I think we sort of knew already as well. Sam's just like, "Well, we have to keep working for Crowley because we need my soul back." And Dean continues questioning that Sam even wants it. And then Sam suddenly stops replying, and Dean goes over to the other room, and Sam's been knocked out, and then a demon knocks Dean out.

G: Yeah, I do love the scene where Sam disappears. It's like, "Ooh, ominous!" Because a part of me was like, "Wow! He ran off that quick. Good for him!" [C laughs] And I went, "Oh, yeah, they're in the demon show where they get taken by demons. Alright."

C: Sam and Dean wake up, tied up to chairs, and Meg is there. She's also going much harder in the sexual harassment, sexual assault talk in this scene, but not in the direct behavior, because I feel like half the time we've seen her, she's straight up sexually assaulted Sam and Dean. But for here, they're clearly doing like a "bark more than her bite" thing where she's really going hard into this because she's nervous, and she's trying to assert some sort of power in the way that we usually see her doing it.

G: Yeah, which Sam points out.

C: Yeah. She's questioning them about where Crowley is, and clearly just upset and frustrated, and really, really needs this information. Or I don't know about "clearly." It's clear after Sam points it out. So yeah, I mean, she straddles Dean's lap, and she starts saying like, "I'll kill you if you don't tell me." But Sam starts laughing, and he says, "Can't you tell? Meg is so fucking furious. If she could kill you, she would have done it by now. She's clearly terrified. I think that she's running from Crowley because Crowley wants to hunt down all of the Lucifer loyalists now." And when Meg asks, "How would you know?" Sam says, "That's what I'd do." Love it! Love it.

G: Yes! Literally boy king of Hell.

C: Boy king of Hell as fuck.

G: He didn't take the job, but he's gonna complain about who the fuck is doing it. Good for him.

C: Exactly. Did we already talk about how, you know, one way of going to Hell and coming back wrong is becoming a demon, and soulless Sam is also a different iteration of that. How- I don't know. How different is a demon from a soulless person in terms of how the Supernatural writers expect them to act or how their minds work?

G: Well, Sam doesn't have any powers.

C: Right, and I guess he also doesn't have any feelings, whereas demons do.

G: Yeah. Meg is explicitly scared, so like, that's a feeling.

C: Right, but somehow, he still ends up at the same place with how Crowley thinks, at least.

G: I think that thought process is more of a- we're just supposed to not really think about it in a "They have the same mindset." [C: Okay, yeah.] That's not what it's supposed to tell us. What it's supposed to tell us is that Sam is willing to put himself in the situation of "Well, if I was doing that, what would I do?" which is like, a little bit of a morbid thought, you know? I feel like perhaps Sam Winchester, with a soul, would still end up with this conclusion if he thought about it, but it's the idea that he thought about it before, seemingly. [C: Uh-huh.] That is the one we're supposed to go like, "Oh, okay." Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, in the past, he-

C: I think so, but I don't think we're supposed to think he thought about this on the spot. I don't know.

G: I think he's like, in his pastime, going like, "What would I do if I was Crowley?" [laughs] And that's supposed to be the thing that bothers us a little bit or something. I don't know. I'm not bothered so like, I don't give a fuck.

C: Because he and Dean have been working for Crowley for a long time, you'd think that a basic part of strategy is for them to think, "If we were Crowley, what do we think we would do?"

G: They are working for Crowley at a different department. [laughs] [C: Yeah, okay.] So fuck knows what they know about the other departments of Hell.

C: No, that's fair. I think what is supposed to be off-putting is that Sam is so sure that he understands Crowley.

G: Yeah, I suppose maybe that, too, yeah. It is the willingness to- For what I was saying, it's the willingness to get to that level of understanding Crowley and what you're saying is like, the understanding itself. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, I think those are similar enough ideas to be able to-

C: Yeah, live together in harmony.

G: I do, I suppose, enjoy a little bit that- Meg says this later. Sam is finally the person that I think Meg wanted him to be.

C: Yeah, in Season 2.

G: And it's because he's soulless, which is like, kind of a slay. I mean, not a slay in that way, but like it's fun to think about. It's a fun thing to think about, and it does bring up the question you were asking earlier, how different is a demon from a soulless person? I have been- This episode brought up a lot of things about how souls work. Sam is different from his soul. A soul is not him. It's just a component, is, I think, what Supernatural is saying, finally. They will say it later with soulless Jack and stuff, but now, the entire conversation, it never is that Sam is down there, you know what I mean? The soul is a completely separate thing. Which just makes you wonder like, why not just put a different soul in him? [C laughing] Why not just put a different guy in there?

C: 'Cause then there'd be a person without a soul, I suppose. But yeah, none of the memories are associated with the soul. They're in Sam's mind. So yeah, why not just put a different soul in there?

G: Yeah. And I mean, it also makes me wonder, so what was- A soul is different from a consciousness, is what Supernatural is trying to say. Like, Sam obviously has a consciousness right now. He doesn't have a soul. So like, I don't know. They are typically together? It's just in special circumstances where they're apart? But that means that they are apart. They are different things, no matter what, if you can separate them in that way. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. It's like, I don't know what Supernatural really is trying to say with all of the soul bullshit. I don't know what this means or what it's supposed to imply.

C: From the last episode, it seemed like all that a soul did was, what? Make you more empathetic and care about being niceys? [laughs] [G: Yeah.] Like, I don't think that's right.

G: Like, what if the person has a soul but doesn't give a fuck about that anyway? Then what is the soul there for? You know what I mean? What is the soul there for?

C: Yeah. And Sam putting himself in Crowley's shoes for like figuring this out is a form of empathy. [G: Is empathy, yeah.] It's just that they've divided things into good empathy and bad empathy [G: It's not niceys.] in Supernatural.

G: Yeah, well, I don't know.

C: The Meg line that you mentioned later where she tells Sam, "Oh, you're missing your soul. I thought you just like, grew a pair," or whatever her exact phrasing was. I did enjoy that. Because I mean, I don't know. During this whole interaction here, I was wondering like, is she gonna know because she possessed him once? She's had a scene post-Season 2 where she tells him like, "I've been inside your sad little head, so like, I know and understand you," and I just feel like they haven't really done much of that with Meg and Sam since. [G: Yeah.] Right now, they are at a point where both of them basically have the same understanding of who Sam is, like who soulled Sam is. Like, she has his memories from when she was in his head. He has his memories from him currently being in his head. And she was very good at acting as him for a week or so, and he did that to Dean for a little while. They have done very similar things with Sam's body or just his whole vibe. But yeah, I don't know. There hasn't been a lot of that in this episode, and I don't think there will be later on.

G: That is an interesting idea, then. If a demon possesses someone, they're possessing their consciousness? But the person inside is also still conscious. [C: Yeah.] But they have access to the memories. So in Supernatural land, memories is different from consciousness is different from soul. [C: Mm-hm.] Wow! There's so many stuff in there!

C: It's a lot of stuff in there.

G: Lot of stuff.

C: Goop everywhere

G: As you said, there's a lot of sexual innuendo- not even innuendo, just straight up. When she's about slit Dean's throat or something, or she's acting like it while straddling his lap, she goes, "Let's end the foreplay. Either you please me or I please myself." and stuff like that. And then they're tied to a chair, so when Dean's like, "Oh, are you gonna untie us?" she goes like, "Well, don't pretend you don't enjoy it" and stuff like that. [C: Yeah.] And then there's also one guy who's really- They're like, "He's really mean-looking," but I don't actually get why.

C: Yeah, he's normal. [laughs]

G: He's normo-schnormo? I don't know. Like later, Sam kills this guy, and he tells everyone, "He was gonna jeopardize this whole thing because he's so intent on killing us, and you know it!" And I'm like, "I don't know it. I don't know it." Maybe they do, but I don't.

C: For real.

C: And I just am pointing that out because I want to contextualize why I don't like Meg. We've had Meg truly for a long time in comparison to any other character in the show, right?

C: I think she's maybe the oldest recurring character.

G: Yeah, aside from like, John Winchester. [laughs] Well, no, she's older than John Winchester. She was up first. [C: Yeah.] I mean, technically-

C: I mean, we see him in the pilot, briefly. [G laughs] But also like, John's dead. We haven't talked to him since Season 2.

G: Missouri is technically recurring, but I don't think it counts because they recur her to kill her.

C: Yeah, she's only here twice.

G: Yeah. But Meg is our oldest recurring character, and I have historically not liked her, and I have always like held out a little bit because- I don't know. Well, you like her. [C laughs] And also, many people do. And also I know that she's gonna have an interesting relationship with Cas. And so I was like, "Okay, let's hold out" because, you know, etc etc. I think I'm at a point where I'm like, I just don't like her, I think. I don't need to hold out. I don't like her. But you know what? I will hold out so I can have the deep satisfaction when she dies, and I'm like, "See? I never liked her all along." [laughs]

C: Wait, so you're gonna hold out on the- You're deciding not to decide to dislike her forever, so that when she dies you can go, "I always disliked her"?

G: Yes.

C: Shouldn't you just be deciding that you dislike her now and retroactively?

C: No no no. Because if I decide now that I don't like her and will never give her the benefit of the doubt, that's going to seep into further stuff. So right now, I'm still like, "Okay, let's give it a shot. Let's give it a shot." I mean, she's going to be a different character in Season 7 and Season 8. That's true. That's a true thing that will happen. She's going to be- she's going to have a different dynamic with everyone, and so I suppose I shall look forward to that, but also there is so much sour taste in my mouth with regards to her that maybe when we get there, I'll just be further annoyed. But let's see.

C: Let's see.

G: I understand that it's like a Supernatural thing, like it's a writer thing, and there are times when especially a female character is written in a way that I'm like, "Oh, I cannot find it in me to like-" or like, "It's so obvious that these are like, writing choices that are like, based on what the writer is and is being misogynistic versus someone actually trying to do a good job of building a character, you know, and portraying a person." With Meg, I find it difficult to do it. Like, "Whatever, this is just like a writer doing something fuck-all." I find it difficult to actually think about her as a character. And so that's my thing. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. You have talked about in the past about her motivations as like, someone who's loyal to Lucifer and how she changed allegiance, seemingly, in a way that's like, she's a person who needs that kind of thing to survive, she needs to have like something to worship. And like, you know, stuff like that. Okay, maybe that's interesting. And it is. It is interesting. It's just when she's actually on my screen, I find her completely unbearable. [C: Yeah.] So like, maybe Meg shall remain as someone that I think about outside of actually watching the show, [C laughs] because when I am watching the show, I'm just like, "Oh, come on."

C: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

After Sam realizes that Meg is running from Crowley, he decides that they should team up. He tells her that he and Dean will tell her where Crowley is, and she can go and kill him, but the Winchesters will come with her, and before she kills him, she needs to get him to give up Sam's soul. But he doesn't tell her what it is. [G: He doesn't say it, yeah.] He says, "Wring a little something out of him." Sam asks if Meg is up to the task, and she says that she apprenticed under Alastair in Hell just like Dean, so absolutely yes.

G: And the way she says it is she turns to Dean and is like, "What do you think?" And Dean goes, "Yeah, she can do it." Which is like, again, it's so, corny, tired, and played out because it is in no way influential to the episode. [laughs] We don't really see Meg do anything to Crowley.

C: She tortures Crowley.

G: How?

C: She does the thing where she like, clenches her fist and then he's falling on the ground choking and stuff, and she says the best torture is hands-off!

G: Yeah. And then he pushes her and then shoves the knife up.

C: That's when she's about to kill her. She did get him to give up the information that he was hiding about Sam's soul-

G: Oh, yeah! That's true!

C: - which is that he's been stringing them along for nothing, because he's not planning to give it back.

G: That's true. Good for her.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Dean is mad at Sam now as they head up, because, like, "How dare you do that? She killed Ellen and Jo." And Sam's like, "Dean, you know what? I know that she's gonna trick us. So you know what? We'll trick her first." And then he says, "We're going to kill them the second that we're done with them." And by them, I do mean the whole group of demons, not they/them Meg. [C laughs] Dean is like, "Well, what if they kill us first?" And Sam says, "No!" 'Cause we're bringing our little angel on our shoulder, whatever.

C: Yeah, [laughing] who we also brought when Meg killed Ellen and Jo, and who was completely useless the entire episode because he got trapped in holy fire. That one. [G: Literally.] We're gonna be super fine with this plan that did not work last time.

G: Exactly. He's also going to get blasted off this episode, don't worry about it. [both laughing] They said, "We need a deus ex machina that doesn't work." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. It's 'cause God doesn't like him anymore. He's just an ex machina.

G: He's an ex deus ex machina. Well, now, we get a truly iconic, [C: So good.] truly iconic scene where Sam heads out, and he starts praying to Cas. But obviously, Cas DGAF. At first he's just saying, "We need you, pwease." He doesn't say "pwease," but imagine if he did. And then he he pivots and he goes, "Oh, the reason why I'm calling you is because there's this fucking gold box that the Nazis really liked in World War II, and then somebody opened it now, and it burned their face off. Anyway, we think it's the Ark of the Covenant." And then Cas is just there. He's there immediately. And he goes, "Where's the box?" And Sam goes, "Wow! You're so fucking stupid!"

C: And he does say that like that.

G: No, he goes, "I can't believe you fell for that. It's the plot of Raiders, idiot." Love it! That's actually worse than saying, "You're so fucking stupid." [C laughs] Yeah. Anyway, Cas is like, "Why did you call me? I have so many things! I'm so busy." And Sam says- he's really going at it. He's like, "I'm gonna bite your neck off." He goes like, "I don't care if you're losing. I don't care what you're fucking doing. You owe me, and so if I call you, you go down here." And then Cas is trying to explain himself. He's like, "You may not care, but like, believe me," blah blah blah. And Sam's like, "Do you think you're here to negotiate with me? If you can't help us, I will hunt you down and kill you." And Cas through this whole time has been mildly apologetic. [C laughs] He is intent on trying to explain to Sam why he can't come down. He just looks at Sam incredulously, and he takes a pause, and then he goes, "Will you... boy? How?" [C laughs] And Sam goes, "I don't know yet, but I will look into it until I find out, and I don't sleep."

C: That's what makes them good in bed.

G: Yeah, we're gonna reblog that again. We've already reblogged it before, I'm pretty sure. We have got to have.

C: Yeah, probably.

G: But when was it time?

C: I don't know. Soulfisting?

G: No, we didn't. I didn't. We didn't mention it until fisting. Can you believe it?

C: We mentioned it before that, I'm sure.

G: We have, definitely. I think we mentioned it- we probably mentioned it. I don't know. I'll reblog it. Anyway, Cas is like, "Okay, fine whatevs." And they show up, and Dean's like, "Wow, you actually showed up." [C laughs] And he's impressed by this. It does make me wonder how many times they have tried to call Cas that we don't know of, if they're like- Because we only saw- What have we seen of Cas and Dean. And Sam. [both laugh] What have we seen of Cas and Dean and Sam?

C: Ha, haha. In Season 6?

G: Yeah. I think the last time when was the last time we saw Castiel, was it literally the whiskey pouring scene? It must be after that.

C: Wasn't he there in "Family Matters" briefly, to meet with Samuel?

G: Oh, yeah, to check Sam's soul?

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, you're right, you're right. He was there the whole Sam soul debacle. Yeah, and that comes after the one with the pouring the wine or the- not wine. That's too gay. [C laughs] The whiskey. Also gay.

C: No, because that was in the "You Can't Handle the Truth" episode, which is the one right before.

G: Okay, got it. So we have established that Cas doesn't show up. But the last time Dean called him, seemingly, he showed up. And so how many times have they called?

C: Every time he shows up, they're always like, "Thank God. I've been calling you for five million months." so I think they just don't show us the times when they try and fail.

G: Yeah, that's fun. That's fun to think about. Yeah. And I do wonder about the line "You owe it to me" or something.

C: Well, yeah, it's just because Cas didn't answer him for the whole year.

G: But he's not answering again, so like, I don't know. So that's what Sam is talking about?

C: I think so.

G: Do you think Sam has any inkling that like, Cas left his fucking soul behind?

C: I don't think so, right? Because there's the beautiful, beautiful Sastiel scene of, "Cas. Did you leave my soul behind-" Oh, no, sorry. "Cas. Did you bring me back soulless... [both] on purpose?"

G: Ah, love it! I love it!

C: So good. That's what makes them good in bed. [laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, I do wish that- I know the point of the whole 6.20 reveal is that it's a big old twist, but like, I just I wish I knew the details of whatever the fuck was going on with Cas now, so I could analyze his motivations better because I only know half-things.

G: Yeah, I mean, as I've been saying since the beginning of this damn season, it's such a brave season to do. After your blowout season that was supposed to be the end of the show, you're like, "We're gonna go in. We're gonna tell the audience nothing." [laughs] Sam is soulless? You're not going to find out until later. Cas is doing fuck-all shit and is collaborating with Crowley? Literally twentieth episode of the season. It's like, they literally did not give a fuck. And I commend that.

C: I agree.

G: I have to put some respect to it.

C: I think it's good plot stuff, and Sera Gamble probably knew that she was going to be disliked as a showrunner, and she would have to prove herself, and she still stuck to her guns on this.

G: Yeah. And I commend that. It's also just fascinating because they decide if a season's gonna continue not that late in the game, you know? And so if it's like 16 episodes through the season, the audience is still like, "This kind of sucks, man! We don't know anything, and the plot doesn't make sense," that's going to hit your ratings, and it's going to hit your chances of renewal. [C: Yeah.] I wonder if it was like, they were already given Season 6 and 7. Yeah, I'm not actually particularly clear on the renewal situation of Supernatural. But I mean, I think we generally do know for a fact that they were in danger in Season 7. People say that. If I may, I don't like, allegedly, Season 6 and 7, and I have said this for a long time, like, I don't like it. I think I do like that this writer who has been here the entire time- She's been here since Season 1, right? [C: Yeah.] Sera Gamble? I respect-

C: She Andreaversed.

G: Yeah. Oh my god! Should I just keep on using the word "respect"? [both laugh] Well, I commend that she decided that "The show that I entered is Season 1 of Supernatural, and I'm going to try to get it back to at least something akin to the groundedness of those seasons." And like, obviously, it's difficult to go back given what happened in Season 5, but I like that they're trying to make it more here, you know? It's here. It's happening here. And it does feel a lot less like Sam and Dean are pawns the way they were in Season 4 and 5. So yeah, I don't like- [C laughs] I still think I don't particularly enjoy it. And I definitely think that if you're watching it live, it's difficult. It's a difficult watch. Watching it live, not knowing what will happen next. But I commend the bravery of doing a show that's potentially bad and kinda is. [C laughing] Like, good on you. It's just- What I'm trying to say is, I see why this is the direction that is being taken by this particular showrunner who has been here this whole time, and I understand, and I commend the vision.

C: Yeah, yeah, agreed.

G: When Dean is like, "Wow, can't believe you got him back," Sam is like, "Oh, you know. It's because we're besties." [C laughing] And are they? That's what makes them good in bed.

C: Funny as hell. And I assume Cas doesn't contradict him. Cas isn't like, "Noo, Dean! He said he was gonna kill meee!"

G: What if he's like, "No, Dean. Sam's actually threatening to kill me. We still have the most profound bond. Don't worry about it!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, but I think he isn't telling Dean because if he says, "I only came down for the Ark of the Covenant," Dean's gonna be pissed at him, too, and he needs at least one person on his side when Sam tries to kill him.

G: Yeah, good for him. Quick thinking on his part. [C laughs] Well Cas says that Crowley is hidden from him because he tries to summon him. Not summon, he tries to location spell him. So they're like, "Okay, fine. We have to actually investigate for real." So they go to Samuel's place, the one that we saw Dean in in the past, or the one he tried to sneak in in in the past. [laughs] "In in in the past." But Samuel shows up and is like, "Well, what the hell are you guys doing here?" And they say their intention, but Samuel's like, "No, I'm not gonna join you. I'm gonna keep Crowley safe." And Dean is confused because "We're your grandkids." [C laughs] [C: Stupid as fuck.] And Samuel says the most interesting thing later, where he's like, "What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?"

C: Yeah. For real.

G: "Like, who are you, really?" And I'm glad someone is brave enough to ask this question. [C laughs] I still hate Samuel to my core, but I'm glad he asked it. And Sam says like, "No, please help us because it's the only way to get my soul back." But Samuel keeps denying it. And Dean asks Cas to leave! He's like, "Excuse yourself," and Cas does.

C: He was mid-battle. Did Cas just go- I don't know. It's so wild to me that Cas spends any time down here.

G: Cas literally just turned on invisibility. He's still there. He's just like, "To make them comfortable, I've just become invisible." [C: Real.] But Dean tells Samuel, "You owe us an explanation!" etc etc. I was supposed to quote the movie, but I forgot the actual lines. No. Oh, it's a Filipino movie. [laughs] There's a Filipino movie where they're breaking up, and the guy goes, "I deserve an explanation. I deserve an acceptable reason!" and it's a very famous thing to say here. Anyway, he says that, exactly word-for-word. [C: So true.] The reason he gives is like, "You know, we're your family, and it's something Sam really needs. If you don't want to help us, fine. But I deserve an explanation and an acceptable reason for why you don't want to." [C: Real.] Truly mind-boggling thing happens next.

C: Did you not expect this? I was like, "This is what it is."

G: No, it's just so absurd. [both laugh] It's so absurd! He takes a picture of Mary as we know her from the flashbacks, and he's like, "You know, Crowley promised that he's going to drag Mary from Heaven [both laughing] onto Earth. He's gonna give her back to me."

C: "And also, I don't give a fuck about my wife."

G: No, he has a wife. That's a crazy one. [C: Yeah.] Has a wife. What is this? What is this? [C laughs]

C: I mean, literally the exact thing I expected Supernatural to pull. Of course.

G: An absurd thing he says is, "You know how to live without her. I don't." She's your child! Did you not have a life?

C: You had a lot of years.

G: Did you not have a life prior to having her? It's crazy! [C: Yeah.] I understand losing a child, blah blah blah, [C laughs] but to make it seem like, "Oh, you only lost your mother! I lost my child!" is an insane thing to say to your grandkids.

C: Yeah, I guess the point is that they had time to move on and he never did, but like, phrase it otherwise.

G: Dean can say, "Well, you had time with her, at least. You had twenty years or whatever, and I had zero." No, he had four. Well, Sam should butt in and go, "And I had zero, so Dean should shut the fuck up."

C: Yeah. "But also, I don't care right now." [both laugh]

G: Literally. He's just channeling a memory that he had. But anyway, it's just- it's like, you know, a whole thing. And Dean tells Samuel off specifically about wanting to bring back someone dead because he says like, "It's never gonna work out. And it's never- It's a wrong thing to do. And you have to learn from our experiences," etc. And he goes like, "Oh, this is like our Achilles heel. I didn't know it ran in the family." Which, I don't know. Every time they try to refer to Samuel as their family, it's just so annoying. [C laughs] Like, okay. He's your grandfather. Okay. Who give a shit?

C: Yeah. He also said, "We will figure something else out," so like, what do you mean by that? [both laugh]

G: She's literally in Heaven.

C: You just said that you shouldn't bring people back from the dead, right? What's the else you're gonna figure out?

G: He could also just kill himself. [C laughs] He already knows that Heaven exists.

C: Yeah, he was vibing there, but they're in separate rooms, I suppose.

G: Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, I mean, the thing is, when I die, my soulmate is my wife, so we're just gonna be together, anyway. So might as well just have Mary who gets pulled down here." [C: For real.] He doesn't listen to Dean, and we just end with Dean telling him off. So they head out

G: We get the scene where Cas is watching pornography. [C laughs] You know, I'm so uncomfortable saying the word "porn," but I love to say the word pornography. It really flows out of the mouth.

C: It is a good word.

G: Yeah, it is a good word. Cas is watching pornography, and it's on the TV, and it's a fascinating scene. I was like- Okay. So the situation is, he's watching in front of the TV. He has his little head tilt going on. And can I also say before this, every time Cas walks in this episode, and he's beside Sam and Dean, he looks so ridiculous. Like, he does genuinely look like he hasn't been in a body for a quote-unquote "year" or whatever. And it's so fun. But also, I think Misha Collins just not- I don't know what's up with him, but it's fun to see like on your screen. But anyway-

C: Are we seeing the beginnings of his need for hip replacements?

G: Does he really? Did he have a lot of hip replacements?

C: I think he had some sort of hip-related thing. I don't know. I remember there being jokes going around, at least.

G: Oh, yeah, I remember the jokes, but I don't know if they're based on a reality.

Sam and Dean are off doing their homework, and Cas is sitting in front of the table. He tilts his head. He goes, "It's very complex. If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear." [both laugh]

C: Iconic!

G: And then he goes, "Perhaps he's done something wrong."

C: Oh, he's insane! I love him!

G: Yeah, I do love to see it. I think they really push it a little bit later. I'm just like, "Oh, whatever." But I think- and the way Dean responds is also so fascinating.

C: No, I know. What was that?

G: So Dean goes, "You're watching porn. Like, why?" And Cas is like, "I mean, it's on the TV. It's what's in there." And then Dean goes, "You don't watch porn in a room full of dudes, and you don't talk about it." And then later-

C: And he goes, "Room full of dudes." So like, if it was women, it would be fine? What are you saying? Just that it's gay?

G: I mean, there are, I think, instances where people watch porn together before having sex. So like, I think he's thinking like, "We're not about to have sex, [C laughs] so you shouldn't be watching."

C: Is that real? Is that what's going on, really?

G: People watching porn as like, foreplay? Yeah!

C: No, no, no, I'm saying, is that what Dean means? Because I don't know. Don't people talk about watching porn with their friends and just jacking off together as well?

G: I think some people just also jack off together as well. I mean, have you seen the Beatles? Everyone has seen the Beatles.

C: I don't think I've seen the Beatles. They were a little dead before my time, or not performing, at least.

G: Well, you have seen them in your mind's eye, I'm sure.

C: Jacking off together. Yeah, of course. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. And yeah,"You don't talk about it." You don't talk about porn? You definitely talk about porn. I don't know. Do you? Do you? I don't know.

C: Do I?

G: No, no, no, just in general. Like, "you," general. [C: Yeah.] You do. [C laughs]

C: I think you, general, does as well, but Dean doesn't, I guess.

G: Yeah, he doesn't. And then a truly- So Samuel comes in. He knocks first, and then they open the door.

C: Cas also has a boner. That's important.

G: Oh, yeah, yeah, he looks down, and he's like, "Huh?" And Dean's like, "Well, now he's got a boner." I can't believe he's horny in a room full of dudes! And then Samuel knocks, and Dean, instead of turning off his fucking television goes to open the door first. [C laughs] And then Samuel's like, "Oh, so like you guys are just watching pornos now with angels?"

C: And then Sam turns it off.

G: Yeah, Sam goes over to turn it off, but before that, Cas goes, "We're not supposed to talk about it." [C laughs] It's just a fascinating, fascinating exchange.

C: Yeah, I don't even know what to say about it. It's just- Yeah.

G: I also don't know.

C: It's so important, but I don't know why or how. [both laugh] Library of Congress, for real. Library of Sexual Congress, etc etc.

G: Yeah, and I do find it fascinating. He doesn't seem to have been watching full-on penetrative sex.

C: Right. It's the spanking right now.

C: It was like foreplay spanking or something.

C: Well, he could be doing the speaking while fucking her, I suppose.

G: Also, I mean, the line "If the pizza man truly loves the babysitter."

C: No, no. What were they saying earlier that implies that?

G: Or were they just having sex, and Cas was like, "They must be in love!"

C: Be in real, true love! Aw! [G laughs] [G: Anyway, yeah.] The "perhaps she's done something wrong" is very interesting to me, too. Just that like, under true love, corporal punishment purely because you think someone's done something wrong and you want to hurt them is fine.

G: No, yeah.

C: Shoutout to "Point of No Return," I guess!

G: What is "Point of No Return"? [laughs]

C: Where he beats Dean up in the alley? [G laughs]

G: So true.

C: Should I not be making that comparison? It does seem a bit trivializing.

G: No, no. I just did not expect you to make a Destiel joke, I suppose. [C: Oh.] You're still in my mind a Destiel hater, so.

C: I mean, I am. But the fact that I hate it doesn't [G: Mean it's not true?] stop the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Literally. And this is one of the horrible things of life.

C: Yeah, there are canon ships that I don't like, and Destiel is basically a canon ship that I don't like,

G: Yeah. And you basically don't like it.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: And also the fact that they end it with that bit, with Cas going "We're not supposed to talk about it" is also a little bit wild. But he does talk about it later. He goes, "I learned that from the pizza man."

C: Well, it's because the room wasn't full of dudes.

G: Well, it was full of two dudes.

C: Yeah, but I guess it wasn't purely dudes there.

G: Yeah. At what ratio [C laughs] of dude to not-dude do you need to have?

C: I think it's the opposite of whether you use the male or female ta in Chinese. I think one woman's presence automatically un-gays it.

G: It's how in Spanish, their they is like ellos the moment you have one singular man in there, yeah.

C: Yeah, but the opposite, yeah.

G: Yeah. Samuel was like, "You know what? I had a change of heart. So this is what Mary would want." And then he shows them the map of where Crowley is. He still tells them, "I wish you wouldn't do this," but Sam invites him, and he goes, "Nuh-uh! I'm not suicidal," is what he says. And so they head out to meet Meg's team.

C: She's outside, and she greets Cas. She goes, "Remember me? I sure remember you, [both] Clarence." Agh!

G: I I would say, Meg, I commend and respect the nickname game. [C: Yeah.] It's very fun. I have not even actually seen It's a Wonderful Life.

C: Nor I.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Do you remember that description that was like- What's his name? What's the name of the guy in It's a Terrible Life?

C: It's a Terrible Life or It's a Wonderful Life?

G: It's a Wonderful Life. That one description that's like, "He's having such a horrible time. He's going to kill himself, [C laughing] and it's Christmas!" And that's so important.

C: God, that is so funny.

G: "George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all. And it's Christmas!" [both laughing] Oh, I love it.

C: Cas immediately goes, "Why are we working with these abominations?" Hope for Sastiel and Megstiel here? And yeah, she just goes, "That's hot," etc. And they just talk for a bit and solidify the plan. Meg's gonna go here to kill Crowley. Sam and Dean are gonna go with her. And Sam says that she needs to give him back Ruby's demon knife, which I forgot that she has. And he uses it to kill that demon who apparently hated them so bad but nobody could tell. And Sam says that it's because he was gonna fuck up the mission because he hated them too much, and then he keeps the knife, and Meg doesn't like this, but just keeps on trucking.

So Dean's about to head out, and he's talking to Cas. And he says, "You know, Cas, you could help." Cas is so busy! Cas is so busy. Why is he even- Yeah, okay, whatever. I don't understand why he's here.

G: Dean's like, "Cas, you can go co-host in my podcast." [laughs]

C: Literally, literally. But yeah, he's not helping with packing.

G: Would Team Free Will be podcasters? An important question. Everyone seems to be a podcaster these days, allegedly. People say that a lot, so probably.

C: Sure. Why not? I mean, you know who would be podcasters? The Ghostfacers.

G: I mean, I assume they already are. [C: For real.] I assume they have a podcast that has been abandoned for seven years, perhaps.

C: I believe it. And Cas says, "I'm ambivalent about what we're attempting" because he thinks that if they take Sam's soul back, Sam will just straight up die because his soul's been-

G: No, he says, "Or worse."

C: Or worse, he won't die, but he'll be so so upset. He'll be thinking about ending it all, and it's Christmas! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] So yeah, Sam's soul has been tortured by Michael and Lucifer for over a year, he could be in so horrible psychic pain, etc. And Dean's like, "But he could also be fine?" [G laughs] And Cas is like, "No, but sure, if you say so." And Dean's like, "Well, if he's not fine, then you fix him." And Cas is like, "I don't think I can." And Dean's just like, "I don't give a fuck about that. It's gonna happen, and you're gonna fix him, and we need his soul back because I hate him right now!" And Cas goes, "Of course. Or we fail, and Sam suffers horrifically." Pretty funny 'cause the whole time, Dean's being like a total asshole from like what he knows, but actually, [laughs] Cas is responsible for much of this. [G: Literally.] So yeah, he probably does feel bad for real, or should feel bad for real. But also, if he didn't do anything, both Sam's, I don't know, body and soul would be down there, so like, honestly, whatever. Cas did the best he could.

G: Also, it is hilarious the way they make you aware that Sam is listening in, where Dean heads off, and then there's an ominous figure in the back, and it slowly, slowly focuses on hi, and it's Sam doing a Kubrick stare. [C: So true.]

G: They head out, Meg only. Her other demons are not there anymore. Sam, Dean, and Cas, they're like walking through hallways and stuff, and eventually, they see somebody in a cage, I think.

C: Yeah, apparently it's the djinn from 6.01 who was the waitress who gave Dean her number? [G: Oh!] I didn't know that, but the transcript says so.

G: Oh, interesting! But anyway, they end up in a hallway when they suddenly hear some noise, and they realize that these are hellhounds, so they end up in a room to hide themselves, and they have a salt line and everything, but when they're inside they're like, "Okay, well, we're trapped in this room. What now?" And Meg goes like, "Okay, well, there's so many hellhounds, and they're all gonna kill us, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna fucking get out of here." [C laughs] And so she tries to leave her body, and then it doesn't work. Just doesn't work, straight up. And I will admit, she does look so good in this scene. [C laughs] She looks amazing. And by amazing, I mean incredibly hot. [C: Yeah.] And the way the camera pans up in preparation for the smoke and then stops there, and it's just her with her mouth open. Well, whatever. [both laughing] Anyway. Apparently, it's like a Crowley spell or something. That's what they say, right?

C: Yeah. Cas is like, "I don't know why, but just for some reason, I feel like maybe Crowley - who I don't know - put a spell in this area so that demons can't leave their bodies. Weird!"

G: Sam takes the knife out and then he tells Meg, "You can see them, right? You have the knife." What happens? Meg tells him like, "No, you take the knife. I have my own thing." And what she does is she grabs Cas, then pushes him up against the wall, and then they start kissing, and she sneaks her hand into his coat, and then Cas flips her over and they kiss some more, and Sam and Dean are watching in the background, but mostly Dean. We only get Dean reaction. Is that true? Do we get a Sam reaction?

C: No, we get a shot.

G: We get one, yeah? Anyway, Meg's like, "Wow! What the hell? Guess again" or whatever. She doesn't say that. And Cas says, "I learned it from the pizza man."

C: Meg says that she feels "so clean." Also, when she was reaching into Cas's coat, she was taking his angel blade.

G: I said that.

C: You said that she put his her hand inside his coat, and then he flipped her over.

G: Oh, sorry. Well, yeah, it was to take the angel blade, and now she has it.

Dean's like, "Is that gonna work?" And she's like, "Let's find out, baby." And they head out.

C: Yeah. Megstiel kiss, scene of all time to me. But.

G: Do they have another kissing scene?

C: I don't think so. They had the almost in the episode where she does kill Ellen and Jo, and then they're maybe gonna fuck in Season 8, but then she dies! [G: RIP.] RIP. So yeah, I don't know. I think- Okay, with the "I learned that from the pizza man." And then, later on, Cas was like, "What do you mean you would have let me had an hour with her? For what?" [laughs] Like, fascinating things going on in Castiel sexuality studies right now. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. What what do you have to say about it?

C: I mean, okay. Like Meg, you know, historically weaponizes her sexuality in order to get what she wants. And this is the only case where she's seen somebody respond-

G: Someone take her seriously.

C: Yeah, well take her seriously and also respond in a way where they're both on equal footing about it, I guess. She doesn't end up like, "the winner." She in fact ends up feeling "clean." His angelness or whatever has permeated into her physically or whatever. And I don't know. I think that that is interesting, and it's the fact that it seemingly only works because Cas isn't into it? Or I don't even know what I mean by that. But like, I don't know. I feel like I think it's like Cas isn't engaging in it the way other characters have because of- I don't know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? He has a different relationship to sex than these other characters do. So he's responding to something that was sort of intended as a weaponized sexuality/maybe assault situation differently as a result, in a way where he has quote-unquote "won." Does that make sense?

G: Yeah, I suppose. I feel like there's more to it.

C: I think I think there is too, but I just don't know what it is.

G: I think it's the fact that this she has been using this to assert power, and in this moment, it's not that she's powerless, but she's taken aback, and that is like, something. Because the point of it is the predictability on her part-

C: Yeah, that it'll work how she expects it to, and it doesn't. Something surprising occurs.

G: And I think it works because Cas- you know, I don't think it works because Cas is an angel because we've met other angels, and I don't think it will work on them this way. So I guess it works because it's Cas, and they are really pushing with the "clueless about humanity" thing with him, which they don't push with other angels, definitely not.

C: Yeah, whatever. Shoutout to the post that says that Meg probably just thought that Cas was into guys starting from this episode, and that he made out with a real pizza man, so true.

C: They start heading further into the building, and then Cas gets fucking sigiled away by Samuel.

G: Who has betrayed them!

C: Dean's so upset that Samuel betrayed them. And then Crowley shows up and says, "Hiii. I'm gonna kill both of you." I do wonder how the Cas-Crowley team up works here. Was he gonna kill them for real? They probably would have died for real in the situations they were put in.

G: Do you wanna know? Do you wanna know for real or?

C: Oh, sure.

G: Crowley kind of spares Sam and Dean pretty much only by Cas's vehement, "No, you have to!" about it, but generally, he's like, "Oh, we should just kill them." [C: Real.] So like at this point, I think he was like, "Yeah, no, we're going to kill them for real" because Cas is not around to tell him off about it.

C: Sam and Dean get put in separate little jail cells where we saw other monsters being held by Crowley before. Meg kills all the hellhounds, so the angel blade does work, but then the demon possessing Christian gets her

G: Oh, that's Christian! You're right!

C: Yeah, so true. Samuel shows up to talk to Dean, and only Dean. [laughs]

G: He literally DGAF about Sam. That's his buddy!

C: Yeah, they were hunting together for a year! They seemed like they were pals.

G: I guess he was like, "Well, Sam's soulless. Who GAF?"

C: I guess. Not nice!

G: Not niceys.

C: And Dean's just like, "I hate you. You're a liar. You don't even put blood first, unlike my dad!" And Samuel says, "Mary is like my straight-up daughter, dude." [laughing] And then he says that Dean sold out Mary by- What? Not taking her down from the ceiling when he was four? [laughing]

G: No, literally- [laughing] That was also my first instinct. I was like, "Oh. What?" But I think what he's trying to say here is that "You traded Mary's soul for Sam," which is factally untrue, because Mary, I reiterate, is in Heaven, and Sam's soul, I reiterate, is in the cage with Lucifer. So.

C: [laughing] Real. Okay, that makes more sense. I was shocked at this one.

G: I was also. [both laughing] Yeah, "It was her or Sam, and you chose Sam." Crazy! I was actually trying to do the calculation in my head when this scene was happening on my screen. I was like, "Wait. So like, is he saying that when Dean grabs Sam out of the burning house, he should have grabbed Mary instead?" [C laughs] That's kind of an insane thing to say. But no, he's saying an even more insane thing to say.

C: No, I think the other thing's more insane. I think this one makes sense. You're going against Crowley because you care about getting Sam's soul back more than Mary coming back.

G: No, but "You sold out your own mother"? She doesn't even want to be here. Does she want to be here?

C: I don't know if- I mean, if he's heard about Heaven kind of sucking from Sam or Dean at this point-

G: He knows that.

C: - he could just assume. Yeah, he was there also.

Dean's like, "I can't believe you chose demon over your grandsons," and Samuel says, "I don't even know what Sam is. I'm not gonna protect him. And you? You're a stranger. No, really, tell me. What exactly are you supposed to be to me?" Kind of a giant slay and so correct.

G: Yeah. Well, because it's coming from someone who just said an completely unreasonable thing. It's like, "What?"

C: True. True. Not the best candidate for this line, I suppose.

G: I do love Dean's reply. Love it.

C: Do you? I think that he's a silly man.

G: I love that he says that "I'm the guy you never want to see again [C: So true.] because when I make it out of here, the next time you see me, I'll be there to kill you." He's really going at it. And Samuel- honestly, a little bit scared, goes like, "Don't think there's gonna be a next time." And Dean goes, "Whatever gets you through the night," which I did enjoy a little bit. A fun little threatening situation against your grandfather. Let's go.

C: Yeah, I do think that it's fun in terms of seeing how Dean has completely let go of the "we're your family idea" now. There's a few scenes that are intercut. Sam, Dean, and Meg are all being put through situations. [G: Yeah.] So Dean's situation is that he's taken to a room with two ghouls who are hungy. They're trying to eat him, and he's weaponless. Meanwhile, Sam is preparing for demons to come into his cell by biting into its arm at the wrist really really really hard until it bleeds, and then later, when two demons come into his room, they step in, they realize they can't move, and they realize that Sam Winchester is so tall that he was able to paint an entire devil's trap on the ceiling, using just his arm blood. [laughs] [G: Love it!] And at this, he grins, and you see the blood in his teeth, and it's so wonderful! And yeah, he manages to get into Dean's room and kill the ghouls.

Meanwhile, Meg's situation is that she is, of course, on the fucking boobstrap table. You may remember the boobstrap table from- I don't know. Every other time a woman got tortured in Supernatural? Did a woman ever get tortured normally in Supernatural? She could have just been chained up like the alpha shapeshifter in the beginning scene. The alpha shapeshifter should have been on the boobstrap table. Christian is torturing her with a knife. Meg is trying to stay stoic, and she's trying to make sex jokes at Christian to again, you know, assert control over the situation and all of that, but it is not working, especially because Christian is responding in turn. We learn that Meg's body is a girl from Cheboygan who moved to LA to be an actress, and I guess it's implied that while she was there, she was raped or went through some sort of similar violence. He's trying to- I don't. What is he even trying to get out of her? He says that Crowley "wants to know everything." Like what, though?

G: No, I don't actually know the purpose of this scene.

C: Yeah, nor I. Who knows? They just love the boobstrap table so much. She's being tortured, and then she starts laughing really hard, and then Dean stabs Christian, or his body, from behind, thus fully, 100%, for sure killing his cousin. [G laughing]

G: Love it!

C: "If Samuel's not my family, then neither is Christian"? What's the reasoning here?

G: I don't know. I mean, to be fair, I didn't recognize him as Christian. Number two, I don't understand the purpose of this scene like at all, the entirety of it.

C: Yeah. It existed, and it happened. Dean unties Meg, and they head out. There's a brief scene where Crowley is about to torture Brigitta, the djinn from earlier in the season, and we're supposed to feel bad for her, and I don't know why we're supposed to feel bad for her but not any of the other monsters like. Didn't she kill Dean's best friend who he just let go? His neighbor? Is it- she's a woman, and they need Crowley to look bad? Why this?

G: I mean, I also don't know. And it's also just so weird because Crowley has been, you know, up against alphas and stuff, and that's all we've been up against this whole time. [C: Right.] And then suddenly, the pivotal moment is him going, "Oh, so how about you tell me what your boss is up to?" [laughs] Like, what? What is this about?

C: I don't know. And he's also being menacing in like a sexual harassment-y way just in keeping with the themes and motifs of the episode, and also just I guess how he is as a character as well. But yeah, whatever. Somehow, this is a scene that exists. And then, while he's trying to menace her, a fire alarm goes off.

G: And so he heads out. It's, you know, Dean sounding the alarm. Meg tries to starts torturing him. Sam asks for what he wants. And this is the part where Sam's like, "I need my soul back," and Meg is like, "Oh! You lost it! What a cool situation!" And Crowley first starts going, "No." but then he goes, after some more pain, that he can't because he just can't do it. And he says, "I was lucky to get this much of you out." I love a cover-up. [C laughs] He says, "Michael-" they always point out that like it's both Lucifer and Michael, and at some point, somebody says that Sam is their only plaything in there. And I'm like, Adam is also literally there. [C laughs] [C: He is.] But okay. Crowley says, "And also, I don't know why you want it back. It's going to, you know, leave you a drooling mess" is what he says. Meg goes like, "Yeah, he's probably right." [both laugh] But Sam has given up, and Dean insists, but Sam has given up. And so now it's Meg's turn, and she wants to kill Crowley, so she heads into the Devil's Trap and then tries to stab Crowley, but then Crowley flicks her against a wall or something.

C: No, I think he just flips her.

G: And then he breaks the Devil's Trap with the knife by flicking it up against it. Very fun. And then Sam and Dean are now against the wall, and then this is all happening, he's trying to give a speech, but then Cas appears by the door, [C laughing] looing all heroic! And he's carrying a little bag, a little sack, even. And he's like, "Leave them alone." [C laughs] He's really putting on the drama, the drama of it all.

C: Obsessed with this guy.

G: And Crowley goes like, "Haven't seen you all season," which is very fun. Yeah, Cas says, like, "This is what I'm gonna do to you if you don't put the knife down." He lifts up a skull, and Crowley's like, "Oh, it's not possible that you have my bones." Cas is like, "No, you should have hidden them better."

C: Don't we literally know where they are? [laughs] Didn't we just go to where they were?

G: No, Crowley got them, put them in a bag, and then hid them.

C: Okay, wait. So when Sam and Dean were- Like, after "Weekend at Bobby's," he took the bones out?

G: That episode ends with Crowley taking the bones. [C: Oh, okay.] Anyway, there is this very banger scene where Cas goes like, "So can you restore Sam's soul or not?" And Crowley goes, "No, I can't." And Cas, with no hesitation, incinerates quote-unquote "Crowley's bones."

C: [laughs] He's so funny.

G: Yeah. And Meg also disappears instantly. And this is when Dean goes, "Oh, she's smart! Well, I would have given you an hour with her before I killed her." And Cas is like, "Why? Why would I want that?"

C: Yeah. Well, first, extremely gross sentence from Dean. Secondly, love Castiel sexuality studies.

C: They're outside of the prison, and Dean's like, "Cas, you're so cool! Thank you! And if there's anything we can do to help you, now that you helped me, I actually care about you for a little while until I'm mad at you again for not helping me!" [G: Yeah.] And Cas says, "There's nothing you can do to help me. I wish circumstances were different. Much of the time, I'd rather be here." Heaven must suck! [laughs] [G: Literally.] It must be so bad. I don't know. He's being very sad and gay in that line, though. It's sweet.

G: He has a very sad, forlorn face. He looks up longingly. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And Dean's just like, "Cas, no, it's okay. I get it! You're going through soo much, and you're soo brave and soo strong. [G laughs] And we're your breasties!" [both laugh]

G: No, literally.

C: He says all of that, exactly like that, and Cas tells Sam that "We'll find another way." Incredibly funny. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And then Sam just says, "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! I don't care! If you actually wanted to help, you would go back and kill every single monster in Crowley's prison." And Cas goes, "Okay." And then he does?

G: And then he disappears!

C: Yeah. He disappears to go there, to do it, I assume.

G: Yeah, no, I think what I understand here is he was like, "I'm gonna help you, Sam." And Sam's like, "You know how you can help? This way." And he's like, "Okay, nevermind." And then he leaves. And that's important as well.

C: Oh! I-

G: No, I'm just joking. Obviously, he went there and slayed the monsters.

C: Okay, yeah. Sorry to all of those people in that prison. Did he even, though? Like, did he go over, Crowley was there, and he was like, "Hi, good job on the community theater, Cas!" And Cas goes, "Oh my god, thanks! You really think I did a good job?"

G: No, definitely, that happened.

C: "Sam told me to kill all these monsters that you're torturing," and Crowley's like, "Well, can you not?" And Cas is like, "Yeah! Of course I wouldn't do that to you!" And then he left?

G: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened.

C: Well, good for them. And Dean's like, "Hey, whatever, you know, Sam? Buck up. We'll get your soul!" And Sam says, "No, I don't want it! Everyone says it's gonna kill me, so I don't want it!" And Dean's very, very upset, and he goes, "You don't even know what you're saying." And Sam goes, "No, I'm saying something you don't like." Slay! He's like, "You care. A lot. But I think I'm better off without it, maybe." [G: Literally.] And Dean goes, "You don't know how wrong you are!" And then Sam starts walking away, and Dean yells after him.

G: It is hilarious to me that this does end with a walk away. [C: Yeah.] And the shot is hilarious, too. It's like Sam walking away, and then half of the frame is like, Dean behind him going, "Sam!" [both laugh] It's kind of important.

C: Pretty important. Yeah. Well, that was the episode. What do we think?

G: Don't like it! Boring, corny, tired, played out, etc.

C: Yeah, if you say so. I think it had its strengths. It had its weaknesses. I had fun for a lot of it.

G: Best Line/Worst Line. [C: Ooh.] I forgot we did this

C: That we do Best Line/Worst Line in general? I mean, the "Will you, boy?" scene is iconic. I don't know if it's my best line, but it is iconic.

G: I would say my best line is- I don't know, actually. I have no idea. I suppose I really did like that, "Will you, boy? How?" scene, but Sam's lines. I like that he has a- that "I don't give a fuck that you're an angel" vibe that he has going is so fun. So I suppose I choose the line- Wait, I'm gonna look it up. "I'm sorry. Do you think we're here to talk this out?" [both laugh] Love that! [C: Love it.] I love that. He was like, "I came here for a purpose. You and I are not gonna discuss it. You're just gonna do it." And that's what makes them good in bed.

C: So true. I think I also like when Sam goes, "It's what I would have done." about Crowley hunting down Lucifer loyalists.

G: What's your worst line? What is a Samuel line that I can assign worst line? [C laughs] I think, honestly, the Samuel line where he goes, "You know how to live without her. I don't." is crazy. I'm gonna choose that as my worst line.

C: Yeah, I think Samuel's whole "You sold out Mary's soul for Sam's" thing was also a silly, stupid thing. Oh, we didn't even mention that when Meg was gonna kill Crowley, she said, "This is for Lucifer, you pompous little-" and then Crowley beats her up. [G: Aw, yeah.] Whatever. It's not that important. It's important to me!

Alright, spread those sheets. I think misogyny exists within the world of the boobstrap table.

G: Yes, it does.

C: Why was it happening? What was it for?

G: I would say, actually, the misogyny, I would place it high because of the fundamental characterization of Meg. [C: Mm-hm.] Also- you know what? This is not about the misogyny, racism, homophobia, but like-

C: Okay, is it about the heterosexual or the nonbinary?

G: I mean, yeah, it is, definitely. But it's just, I do think there is also so much incompetence in the writing of Samuel. It's such an incompetent way to have this character be. When he whipped out Mary, the Mary photo, I was kind of like, "Wow! What an absurd thing to do," but also, as you said you could see it from a mile away. Because what else does this character have? Literally nothing. [C: Yeah.] Nothing. And it's just, you know, it's like, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, they also didn't write him well," so we can add that to nothing [C: So true.] 'cause it's not misogynistic, racist, or homophobic.

C: Yeah. So when you say high, are you going like, 3 [G: Yes.] or higher? 3. 3 sounds right to me. Racism, we did have a few Black demons in this episode, I don't know if- was there? I feel like they're- yeah. I don't know. The one who calls them a little bitch at the beginning is Black, but I don't if that really counts inherently as anything.

G: I don't personally think so.

C: Yeah, I don't personally think so. Was there anything else? Not that I recall.

G: Not really, not particularly.

C: Yeah.

G: Homophobia. Dude, you can't watch porn in a room [both] full of dudes. I don't think that's homophobic. I think that's heterophobic. [C laughs]

C: Is it?

G: [laughs] Yeah! [C: So true.] The only reason why you would not watch porn with your straight friends is because of heterophobia.

C: Yeah, okay, I don't know, something's going on with Cas sexuality studies this episode.

G: Something is going on, but I don't think it's homophobia.

C: Yeah, I think we're supposed to laugh at him being clueless about how men are supposed to be. [G: Mm.] But yeah, I don't know. Let's just zero it, I suppose.

G: Yeah.

C: And when the pizza man montage happens, we'll give that episode negative ten homophobia.

G: No, that was fighting for Grey rights. [C: Yeah.] And I did say "gay" like "Grey."

C: Yeah. It was. I am that Db. When you say "I am that Db," is that Dean Binchester? Decibels? What's the Db? Actually, also, what does IMDb stand for?

G: International movie database.

C: That is probably true.

G: No, let's look it up.

C: It's internet movie database. You almost got it.

G: Yeah. 6.10 is me. I'm even. So this is, I would assume, a beloved episode in the stats thing because it's revealing stuff and doing things, and Meg is here, which is a recurring character, and Crowley and Cas are both here, and also, we have cemented the Samuel falling out, so the next time we see him, we're gonna kill him, which is important. [C laughs]

C: I don't think Dean actually does that, does he?

G: No, I don't think so. [both laugh] But we have established that we this is not a guy that we have have to, you know, put in any effort into liking. I would give this an 8.4.

C: Okay. You did all the talk about how it's rated highly, and then you only gave it 0.1 above "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"?

G: Yeah, I don't believe that it's that highly rated. Maybe it is. It's your chance, Crystal. You're lagging behind.

C: Ah! Whatever. 8.3. I hate my life. No, wait! No, whatever. Let's just do it. Okay.

G: You're not lagging behind, are you?

C: Yes, I am.

G: Oh, you are! By not that much. That's impressive.

C: What. What's the answer? I guessed 8.3, and I'm wrong, and I'm stupid.

G: Yeah! It's 8.5! [C groans] All of the photos are of Meg, and that's kind of important. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I understand this.

G: This one says, "Cas is at the top of his comedic game." Is he?

C: But is he?

G: This one says it helps focus the season because Season 6 is so " wildly uneven" and it's a "structural mess." And so this one is like, a very focused episode. This is so scary! I was like, "Oh my god! Did they know?" Because "One of the outstanding episodes of Season 6. Angels and demons working together, oh my!" And I was like, "Oh my god, they're like- this is like-"

C: They were talking about Meg.

G: Yeah, "Did we not watch like a Crowley and Cas scene at the end that was so important, and we missed it completely?" But no, it's about Meg.

Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Someone in the reviews is asking why soulless Sam wouldn't be going after demon blood to drink it.

G: That's an interesting question. I suppose there is an aspect of the dependence that is emotional.

C: Yeah, maybe. Or like, now that he's Mr. Logic And Reason, he feels that it's actually not in his best interest?

G: Yeah. [C: Yeah.] I mean, the thing is, he does get powers from it, for real. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Or is that true?

C: It's true. He did get powers for real from the demon blood, yeah.

G: Yeah. But also now, he doesn't-

C: Except for that "You never needed the feather to fly, Dumbo" line, which I don't understand.

G: Yeah, but in Season 5, he still had to drink it, so who knows?

C: Yeah. And he used it to torture Alastair, right? And then kill him? So like, if they're- yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, whatever the objections to drinking demon blood are are not within the soul. Or they are within the soul, but then there's other ones- the soul has reasons for and against, and without the soul, Sam has neither. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay. Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

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