#that is if hes the real son of elia and rhaegar

[atreeinthemoonlight]

The reblog from riana-one nailed it.

There's no meta that states Naerys has to embrace his husband's bastards and mistress

While people are sighing that Elia was okay with Rhaegar running away with a bethrothed, highborn lady because she was dornish. They read too much fics and D&D's crappy show.

Why Elia should embrace Lyanna and Jon? Because she's kind and dornish? Nope. It doesn't work like that. Elia doesn't owe them anything.

And Lyanna doesn't exist to be the doll for Rhaegar. Are you telling me she wouldn't have fought with her teeth for her son's safety and position? Where is that will to fight, her impulsiveness, her brashness, her wild blood?

Some say that Elia is boring and bland(which is valid, you can't love all the characters), but suddenly they remember she was kind and dornish.(when it is convenient for those toxic Rhaelyas)

Elia and Lyanna would have been doomed. Their children doomed. Another blackfyre rebellion.

I don't know if you are a Dany fan; but there is a tik toker that called Jon the supposed Visenya, but ends up as a shadow(nothing good) of the true prince who was promised, Daenerys.

So yeah. Elia, Lyanna, and their children were doomed from the start... :(

George R. R. Martin already gave us Rhaegar and Lyanna’s hypothetical ending in Fire & Blood — had Rhaegar married Lyanna, it would have triggered another Dance of the Dragons; had he legitimized Jon Snow, it would have ignited a second Blackfyre Rebellion.

Honestly, the ones who think Elia would be generous enough to accept Lyanna and Jon — they’re actually the kinder ones,at least they were still willing to coexist with Elia. A lot of Rhaelya stans just go straight to writing Elia and her children out of the picture.Yes, in their version, Rhaegar wins the war against the Usurper —but Elia and the kids? Still dead. That way, there’s no need to get caught up in power struggles anymore.

There was an Elia fan on Twitter who posted Rhaenys, Aegon, and Jon getting along —and how did the Rhaelya crowd react?“Dany and Jon are not interested in your family portrait”“Dany is the only woman for Jon.”“Stop leeching off our popularity, stop trying to get attention.”

See? Rhaegar, Lyanna, Jon Snow, and Daenerys they’re the real family. Only Daenerys is worthy of joining the Rhaelya household. Viserys doesn’t even qualify. That’s the energy. No matter how kind Elia and her fans are toward Lyanna and her child, it’s unlikely they’ll receive the same goodwill in return. Because this isn’t a situation based on mutual empathy or emotional reciprocity — it’s a structure built on competition over who is “the chosen one,” They don’t want to share the spotlight. They don’t want equality. They want to be unmatched, irreplaceable. They’re fundamentally unwilling to let Lyanna’s character be influenced or diluted by any other women,especially Elia and her children.They have about as much class as they have shame,which is to say, none at all.

As for Jon Snow, my personal opinion is that Rhaegar may have initially seen him as a Visenya figure — a complementary part of the “three heads”.Or even, in the beginning, maybe he was simply helping Lyanna escape a marriage she didn’t want, with no deeper intention. But after spending over a year with Lyanna, he might have come to believe that their child was the true prince that was promised. After all, when Rhaegar returned to King’s Landing, he made no known effort to enhance Aegon’s security, relocate him and Elia Rhaenys to safety, or assign trusted guardians. That’s not the kind of action you’d expect from someone who just realized that the child he believed to be the prophesied savior was in danger. It suggests that by then, his hopes may have shifted — away from Aegon, and onto the child Lyanna was carrying.

And honestly, I think there’s a good chance Rhaegar got it wrong again. Readers who believe Jon Snow is the prince that was promised might be doing so out of a kind of sympathy — like, “He got it wrong the first two times, surely he must’ve gotten it right the third time. Otherwise, it would be too absurd — all those people died, and not even for the real chosen one?”But Martin being Martin, who’s to say he won’t slam the gas pedal and make Rhaegar completely, tragically wrong—about everything?

[fictonrantsworld]

At this point for me it can be anyone but bran, idk how george is gonna convince us booksreaders.

Tho I do have a soft spot for aegon vi or faegon to be the real son Elia and rhaegar and thriving at the end of dream of spring just bc I want Elia martell to win for once.

jesus didn’t die so your endgame for asoiaf is that jon and daenerys get the iron throne

[ladyofchroyane]

god tywin lannister deserved worse

just remembering elias death and i wanna puke and the way tywin talks about elia and what happened is so damn gross

but rip tommen and myrcella we all know what’s about to happen in the next book :/

the cycle of violence just keeps spinning and damn you tywin for beginning it

(i got a bit crazy in the tags 💀)

[scorpiosbite]

when drew watched actress!reader’s sex scene for the first time

𝜗𝜚 ࣪˖ ִ𐙚 ────୨ৎ──── drew’s been binging game of thrones ever since that fateful day madelyn forced him to watch the show, what was meant to be a normal binge session turns into him being the horniest he’s ever been. making the anticipation of meeting you even heavier.

𝜗𝜚 pairing: actress!reader x drew starkey

author’s note: this takes place during the filming of obx 4, before madelyn informed the obx cast that they were going to meet you when you came to LA.

drew could not tear his eyes away from the screen of the tv in his moroccan hotel room. he thought that after watching game of thrones consistently, now nearing the end of the first season he would become accustomed to see you in costume, but every time you came onto the screen his breath was taken away. seeing you in that the sliver waist length wig that looked like it was your real hair, the sheer fabric floor length dresses with the daring cuts that exposed more and more of your soft skin, and the intricate dornish jewellery with the subtle targaryen detailing made him feel like a teenager once again with how quickly his pants tightened. and it wasn’t only how you looked, it was also your performance. you were an astonishing actress, he would forget that you weren’t actually visenya in real life, that this world didn’t actually exist and that you were just acting. he was so captivated by you.

“the last dragon, that’s who you are visenya, the last targaryen left in the world, perhaps if you favoured your mother in looks, you would escape the pressures of the targaryen name, but you do not, you look just like rhaegar only with the tanned skin of elia.” you rolled your eyes and drew felt his heart jump. surrounded by the hanging gardens of sunspear in dorne, you paced with aggression, your sliver hair swishing behind you, your dress billowing as you stared down your costar. “have you come to lecture me of my responsibilities as the last targaryen, jaime? all while your bastard son sits my throne? and your sister puppets him from behind.”

“we are only married because your father knew that once i take back my throne i will come after the lannisters for your family’s hand in my mother and brother’s murders. he thought that if we were married that i would not harm you and your name would live on through my womb. but i am no fool, targaryen women have been known to kill their husbands, who is to say my coin wasn’t flipped on the side of madness. that is the saying is it not? when a targaryen is born the gods flip a coin, greatness or madness.” you now stood face to face with the man, staring him down with a smug expression and drew was once again struck with your talent as an actress, your body displayed the anger and frustration that your character felt despite the facade of arrogance on your face. then suddenly your lips connected with his, the actor who played jaime slid his hand around your waist, the cuts of your dress allowing him to touch your bare skin, your hands went to his hair and drew had never felt so jealous of another man.

jaime picked you up with ease, walking backwards to a chair sitting down with you spread on his lap, and drew thought that he would do anything to have you like that. the camera filmed you from the back, jaime’s hand caressing your exposed back down to your ass, and drew squeezed the covers of his bed in response. the camera cut to a mid shot of both of you from the side, you broke the kiss your face still so close to his, lips brushing together as you spoke in a hushed tone. “i want you to fuck me, jaime.” drew groaned at the lust in your voice, and wondered if that was what you sounded like in real life. jaime’s actor groaned in response to your statement and drew felt sympathy for the man, because he knew that if he was in that position instead of him he would be unable to stop himself from cumming in his pants, professionalism be fucked.

jaime’s hands trailed to the back of your neck and the camera cut to back to the shot of your back, closing up on his hands as his hands pulled at the strings holding your flimsy dress together the camera seemed like it was handheld making the shot feel all the more intimate, the material fell and jaime tugged the dress off of you leaving you completely bare but drew could only see your back and up, but then, the camera cut to a wide shot, and drew gasped as your entire body from the back was exposed. jaime’s hand coming down to squeeze the supple flesh of your ass and drew felt his cock harden at the sight. the camera cut to an over the shoulder shot from jaime and your bare chest came into view, this time drew couldn’t stop the moan that escaped him, your hands tugged at the strings of jaime’s pants although the camera kept on you, your hands out of the shot.

you sank down on jaime’s cock and a whine-like moan escaped you, drew felt like he was going insane, he couldn’t stop himself as he tugged his boxers down, his hard cock springing up to slap against his stomach. his hand wrapping around the thick length, squeezing, pearly beads of pre cum leaking out. drew flicked his eyes back up to the screen and you had your head thrown back as you bounced on jaime’s cock, drew knew that the pleasure on your scrunched up face was fake, that the melodious moans that were escaping your pretty lips that were hung open were fake, but the way your tits were bouncing was real and drew couldn’t stop himself from tugging his cock in time with the movements of your hips, your head tilted back down to gaze down at jaime your eyes so fucked out and drew wished that it was him you were looking at. that it was him that could run his hands all over you.

you spoke breathlessly “targaryens used to feed their enemies to their dragons, i don’t have a dragon yet, perhaps i shall just eat you myself, husband.” jaime groaned in response, connecting your lips back together and drew sped up his movements his hand stroking with fervour, the squelching sounds echoing through the room, his other hand coming down to squeeze at his balls, his eyes still glued to you on the tv. drew was close he could feel it and as your body shuddered and you collapsed into jaime’s lap, drew came with a deep groan. cumming all over his chest and stomach. drew threw his head back against his headboard, he felt just a little bit pathetic, that he didn’t have the courage to message you but he could jack off to you doing your job, but god what he would give to have you like that.

TAGLIST: @sunnybunnyy2 @percysley @wearemadeofstardust0 @idgasb @pinkpantheris @emmaaas-posts @grace-sully @chimmysoftpaws

you guys are not believe the fucking writers block i suffered while writing this for it just to turn out so shit but nevertheless I hope you enjoyed!

[kingsmoot]

Hey sorry anon here about the Plan for Theon which is what was Jon Arryn/Ned/Robert's plan for Theon's hostage/ward situation. Like post Greyjoy rebellion when they were like "okay and Ned takes the kid until...."? What do you think was going to be after the until if there's no war of five kings. Because surely it can't have been ''keep him at Winterfell forever'' or ''eh just play it by ear''. The most likely scenario seems "ship him back to Pyke when Balon kicks it" but that seems guaranteed to go poorly.

hey, don't apologize, i'm so happy you came back to clarify!! and sure i'd love to talk about this, but i don't think there was a "plan" in the way that you're thinking of it.

i think, genuinely, that it was some sort of miracle that ned was tasked to take theon to ward in the first place. the greyjoy rebellion was 9 years before the start of agot. robert's rebellion was 15 years before the start of agot. so we're six years into a new regime that was started in a pool of infant blood. robert baratheon HIMSELF was there to rock balon's shit.

acok; chapter 11, theon i

and we know how merciful robert was to his enemies... like he's so fresh off the high of killing rhaegar and elia and their tiny, terrified children you know he's jonesing for another greathouse to wipe off the face of planetos forever.

so it's shocking to me that theon was permitted to live at all. i think that was a tense and angry conversation between ned and robert and i think it was decided because ned threw in the ol' "your reign was begun on the mangled corpses of babes" line. but maybe i'm wrong and robert had no real feelings about keeping theon alive or not, especially considering the fact that rodrik and maron were casualties of war. they were not purposefully executed for their or their father's crimes.

acok; chapter 11, theon i

so, maybe i'm wrong about robert and ned's marital spat over this. we don't need to get distracted over that at this point, i don't think it really matters.

i think it's sort of impossible to say what the intent of theon's captivity was because we get nothing from ned's perspective on it. and he would know best!

theon is not a reliable narrator here. he describes ned as "cold", but this is the ned who brought him along with his trueborn children to see justice done in the northern way. who fed and clothed him and ensured that he was treated as befit a boy of his station, as an heir to pyke. theon describes cat as "even more distant and suspicious" which is crazy because cat planned the entire royal visit to winterfell with theon and robb sharing equally in all the activities of the king's party and then permitted theon into her confidence in her sick room after the attempt on bran's life. she raises some moderate reservations in response to her 15 year old son about putting their 19 year old hostage in command of his war host.

but it wouldn't be fair of theon to be a reliable narrator, here. he was kidnapped as a child and a headsman's axe was hung over his proverbial neck for nine years. he isn't going to be an objective judge of cat and ned's behavior towards him because regardless of where he was seated during dinner he was still their war trophy. because regardless of how gently cat and ned treated him he was still their political prisoner. and that's not a dynamic that's washed away with family bonding activities and a lord's wardrobe.

importantly, though, cat is also not a reliable narrator wrt theon's captivity. i have a tag on my blog about the two of them and about how cat evaluates theon's place within her own household. i've been paying close attention to that in my current reread and so far i can't quite put my finger on it (though i suspect cat sees theon as just a normal ward like how petyr was her own father's ward and how ned was jon arryn's ward etc. until war begins to brew and she remembers that theon is, in fact, representative of a potential and proven adversary) i fear that now that i'm past agot i'm not going to get very good information on how cat stark sees theon greyjoy because he is very quickly going to change from her husband's ward to the boy who murdered her two youngest children and burned winterfell to the ground. and she can't really be objective about that either.

so we get no perspective from robert and ned, and warped perspectives from cat, theon, and balon (sweet daughter northern pervert we've been over this one).

but we know this from maester luwin:

acok; chapter 46, bran vi

and i think this is an accurate summation of the "plan" wrt theon. theon was the only surviving heir to pyke. he was raised for the first ten years of his life as a third son and a youngest child. he would never have had any thoughts of succession or inheritance or rule (by mainland standards). ned felt confident that he could rehabilitate him into a good upstanding northerner and rid him of his cruel ironborn blood.

i just made a ridiculously long post about "bad blood" and why the series as a whole rejects the narrative that certain people are simply born wrong and their innate badness can never be changed, and as much as this is true for joffrey and ramsay it is also true for theon. i think this is actually one of the very strong parallels between theon and rams that i don't see discussed very much. both of them are assumed by their father (figure) to be inherently, intrinsically, immutably damaged and irredeemable. and they are then raised in a way that reinforces this as truth. it's the same self fulfilling prophecy that i talked about in that joffrey meta. when you start with the assumption that a child is a monster, and you treat him like a monster his whole life, he does eventually grow into a monster, and he proves you right.

but this is a whole lot of build up without me really answering your question. i tend to waffle.

anyway. i do literally think the plan was to play it by ear.

i think ned told robert that he could rehabilitate theon, the heir to pyke, and turn him into an upstanding mainlander just like jon arryn turned them (ned and robert) into upstanding... vale. ians. and i think the plan was absolutely to keep theon stuck in a labeled tupperware container at winterfell until balon died and then to ship him back off to the iron islands to run them like an upstanding mainlander would.

i do not think that ned nor robert spent any time at all thinking about ironborn culture because ned and robert just see ironborn culture as "those savage pillaging rapists from that shitty little chain of islands out west". i do not think either of them ever thought "huh. perhaps the ironmen would not accept an heir to the seastone chair who was raised off of the islands by outsiders and turned into an outsider by his captors". i think ned and robert both thought "if the ironmen do not accept theon as their liege lord when we give him back in 20 years or so we will come back here with our scorpions and our catapults and our big fuckass warhammer and we will beat them into submission again, because it was pretty easy the first time tbh these guys are jokes."

and i think it wouldn't have been too too wild for them to think this if the whole like, plot of the series didn't happen. robert's reign isn't very destabilized. he clearly is in possession of like intense military prowess. if euron or victarion or aeron said when theon was brought to pyke for balon's funeral and to take his place as the liege lord of the iron islands "hey, fuck you guys, that's not how we do things here" i think ned would not have to try too hard to remind them how it went the last time they tried to assert ironborn independence.

so, yes, to us, shipping a fully grown theon off to pyke to assume the lordship over the islands seems guaranteed to go poorly. but we have perspective into ironborn culture that ned and robert do not. and we also, like. care. about ironborn culture. and why the iron islands do things differently than mainland westeros. and why they would reject theon as an outsider as soon as they looked at him. ned and robert do not care about these things. their plan was to go in and put the little puppet they conversion therapied into a wolfbrained greenlander onto the seastone chair and tell everyone on the islands that they would squash them like the useless bunch of roaches they are if they don't accept his rule. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nervouscunt]

Back at it with my Elia posting this time featuring Rhaegar and including a nice sketch from a larger unfinished piece that will never see the light of day cuz i hate it. Now I know this is not the popular consensus but my interpretation of them and their relationship is that they did care for eachother while simultaneously having different perceptions of eachother, they both think they know the other fully and that they're on the same page but that's just not true. I'd like to think that Elia knew of the prophecy but always though that Rhaegar would put their family above the want to fulfill it, while Rhaegar thought that Elia knew how important the prophecy was and that he needed to fulfill it by any means necessary. This makes his actions so much more wounding for Elia because they make her realise that she never truly knew him, that the idea she had of him was never real.

Anyways transcript of the comic text that is most likely needed due to my horrid handwriting:

E: I know the realm desired a new prince.

R: Nonsense the first head of the dragon was a daughter, not a son.

E: Hmmm, while i certainly was never the most devote student of history I am most sure Rhaenys was the youngest.

R: True but look at our girl, she's already far too sweet to be a Visenya.

E: Then I'll endeavour to make the next one more sour.

R: that would be much appreciated.

PNGs by @ nicodefresas

[ladyempty]

We all know the story, Steffon on Aerys' orders goes to find a bride for Rhaegar, one of good lineage and valerian. But he doesn't find any good enough so Rhaegar marries Elia.

Now, let's imagine, there is a last Velaryon who is consequently the Lady of the Velaryon house but is constantly traveling to the free cities to increase the fortune of the house so Velaryon!Reader went unnoticed by Steffon.

What would Yandere Rhaegar's reaction be when Velaryon Reader appears at the Harrenhal tournament married to a man from Essos and already with three children, two girls and a boy, all with platinum hair? 👀

"you're in the water, i'm in the fire."

° | My first order! I can't believe it!! Thank you very much 💜 English is not my first language. | ° | This is a yandere work and may contain triggering behavior. I'm not in favor of that in real life. | ° | pairing: Rhaegar Targaryen x Velaryon! Reader

Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, the last dragon and with the advancing madness of King Aerys, the final hope of house Targaryen. Surrounded by an air of melancholy and a veil of sadness, he sought in books and parchments a refuge for a tired mind beyond his tender years.

His thirst for reading, always insatiable and sadness for no reason, it was no surprise that the Targaryen sought answers in his most reliable “friends”, books, the certain mental instability that surrounded him left fertile ground for his almost insane thoughts and dreams to take over. leadership. He had clung to every word and prophecy spoken about the Targaryen house as if it was the only thing that mattered, he had complete confidence and certainty that the promised prince would be born from his bloodline. Of his blood and flesh. A justification that went beyond men's understanding for their birth and unhappy existence. He had a greater purpose.

And he certainly wouldn't rest until he accomplished it. His marriage to Elia, like so many other royals, was purely political with no real feelings shared between them. Rhaegar didn't feel frustrated, Elia was kind, intelligent, fun and beautiful, from the second largest house in Westeros, he had nothing to complain about. A bolt of happiness struck him every time Elia managed to get pregnant, it was the beginning of the realization of his destiny. Just one more and then finally a dragon will have three heads as it should be.

But of course that didn't happen. The wife was very weak, her body would not be able to handle another pregnancy without her dying in the process and possibly along with the child who could not be born. It was not a pleasant risk, it would also cause certain disagreements in the political relationship with Dornes. He just needed a son, no matter who mother him.

It was a sunny day that morning, the sun was pleasantly warm, and the glory of the day in the riverlands spread before his eyes. On the sides of the road, the fruit trees hide with their delicate greenery and the birds busy with their melodies come out of hiding to enjoy some of the sun's rays. He was accompanied to the tournament at Harrenhal by his wife, children and father, who, paranoidly, would not allow any of his guards to remain more than two feet away from him. Observing each of those present with dark and suspicious purple eyes, not recognizing their own allies and subjects.

They arrived at dusk in time to attend the tournament's opening ceremonies, a grand banquet held in the Hall of a Hundred Hearths with nearly every lord of the seven kingdoms present, laughing and dancing along to the lively melody that resounded throughout the great hall. Elia quickly walked away to continue a conversation with his brother, the king remained quiet, his half-closed gaze migrating from one person to another with the speed and distrust of a trained dog. And after countless requests from nervous ladies and smiling gentlemen, Rhaegar surrendered to playing at least one melody on the harp.

The spirited Lady Lyanna seemed more moved, shedding a few tears and letting out a few shaky sighs, and Rhaegar was almost convinced that she was a fragile and lovely maiden before Stark poured, between grumbles and without any hesitation, an entire goblet of wine on her head of the younger brother. The action managed to surprise the prince, the girl had a joy that was not constantly present in her life and that was very well appreciated. Her mind strayed for a moment, and Rhaegar admired the young woman's beauty, she was charming and youthful like a flower in bloom.

His thoughts strayed again as an unsettling silence fell over the great hall like never before, the ladies ceased their gossip and the lords no longer clinked their overflowing goblets of the most expensive wine. All eyes were fixed on the large entrance door, which creaked as it was moved again. By instinct, Rhaegar followed the crowd's gaze and later, when he recalled the moment, he would not regret his decision.

A couple closely accompanied by three children entered the room. The man was tall, with copper skin and short dark hair, with a beard and wore an ice blue doublet. He carried the youngest child with him, a small girl who didn't look two years old anymore and certainly couldn't keep up with the adults. On the left side was another child, a boy just over five years old, with short hair and blue clothes, just like his father and next to the boy was another girl, with closed features, a little taller. And on the right side was the woman who was assumed to be the man's wife.

At that moment Rhaegar's heart skipped a few beats, his heart accelerated, the butterflies in his stomach appeared as quickly as lightning that left him breathless, an electric current running through his body until it reached his clouded and restless mind. If before he found Lady Lyanna adorable, now her appearance paled in comparison to the unknown woman's elegance and beauty. Their still hazy path takes another path, the long platinum hair that shone silver under the candlelight and the purple eyes like amethysts, of the woman and the children.

Was this a Joke? How was it possible? Rhaegar could not recall any woman with Valerian features in any house great or small in the seven kingdoms. If he knew, she would certainly be his wife right now. This thought darkened his features, due to the incompetence of others Rhaegar did not have the woman of his dreams, much less his three children as the prophecy said. His eyes fixed on the boy... Rhaegar didn't have the promised prince....

As the night wore on, the Targaryen prince's eyes never left the unknown woman's warm figure, every smile, every graceful dance, every sway of her platinum curls, even the quick glimpse of her stockinged legs. Everything was caught in the Targaryen's hungry, shameless eyes, the hunger that grew in her strange squirming with every little interaction she had with her husband or children. Every smile that was never directed at him was a punch to his face and a kick to his gut.

That Wasn't Right, Why Was This Happening? It was his destiny, those should be his children and his wife. Were the gods testing him? How could they be so cruel?

He approached without delay the moment you were left alone by your husband, the youngest daughter firmly holding the skirt of your light blue dress. Rhaegar put the best smile he had on his face before greeting, cornering the woman, who he now knew the identity of, to talk more personal, more gentle, more compromising. He simply couldn't contain himself, a dissatisfied tingling spread through his hands with every minute that passed without touching the softness of his face, a touch that could be interpreted as inappropriate but felt absolutely right in the prince's mind.

Rhaegar nodded calmly with a slight smile at each word you said, unable to contain himself any longer, his hand gently placed one of the platinum strands of your hair behind your ear, his fingertips trailing gently down the side of your slender neck. Restraining himself from saying anything or moving forward with his movements. Ignoring the way you winced and tried to politely walk away.

Why were you shy? Soon you would be married. It was destiny and nothing mattered beyond that. You would follow your duty.

[mattsmithinanewwig]

au idea where the targs win the rebellion and jon is raised in the red keep as a bastard son of king rhaegar. but instead of him being blackfrye pt 2 with like a whole ass harem, gets dark sister, kills either all the dornish or all the starks depending on which stan is writing and becoming the real king of westeros, he’s still just like canon jon. ambitious and jealous like any teenager yes but also deeply lonely and compassionate about innocents, with few friends and the moment he can leave the red keep he does but instead of joining the wall he travels as a bard dunk and egg style.

no rhaegar, lyanna or elia bashing, just jon walking the same steps as his father singing to peasantry but instead of being king, just wandering westeros like his great grandfather aegon v

[queen-helaenas-pet-spider]

Satin Flowers Theories That Spark Joy:

1. He is a highborn!!!!

DEFINITELY POSSIBLE!!!!!! Satin having skills that mainly a highborn would have {reading, writing, etc}, him being bad at keeping fires in Jon's fireplace going {which is something a servant would do, and not a highborn}, etc.

2. He is the real Prince Aegon Targaryen {son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Princess Elia Martell *who was "killed" when Tywin Lannister and his army sacked King's Landing*} and not Young Griff!!!!

A little out there, I know, but it's a fun theory!!!!!!!! If Satin is Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon, and Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's Aegon {or whatever Jon's real name might be, I really hope it's not Aegon}, then that means Jon Snow has been {as far as we know} one-sidedly so beyond down bad for his own biological brother for like 3 books {knowing the Valyrian's, that's not a bad thing, but they're men *again, still not a bad thing, but same sex marriage is illegal in ASOIAF, and one or both might understandably not be into family fucking*}.

And if they're both Rhaegar's sons, them and Daenerys {Rhaegar's little sister} completes yet another 3 headed dragon {Dany as Aegon The Conqueror, Satin/Potential Aegon #? as Rhaenys, and Jon/Potential Aegon #? as Visenya. Walk with me. W A L K W I T H M E ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! }

More cons: 1. Satin being Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon would mean that another heir to the Iron Throne has thrown his life away to serve at a place that will kill you if you try to quit. And 2. As far as we know, Jon and their friends are the only support he has, and that wouldn't be enough to help him reclaim the throne {that Daenerys is also fighting for}.

3. He is one of Robert Baratheon's bastards!!!

Robert {a Baratheon man with Targaryen blood} was in love with a Stark man {Ned Stark, and not Ned's sister Lyanna *who went to war for, but couldn't even remember what she looked like*} and now Jon {A Stark man with Targaryen blood} in love with another potential Baratheon man with Targaryen blood?!?!?!?! {They'd still be related, but not as close as they'd be if he was Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon!!!!!!!!}

---

Satin Flowers Theories That DO NOT Spark Joy:

1. He is one of Littlefinger's MANY spies!!!!

WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?!?!?! I mean, if it somehow ties into Littlefinger's whole climb up the Ladder plan, sure. But other than that, he would just wasting his time, money, and a very pretty boy that can make him even richer.

2. HE IS ONE OF JON SNOW'S KILLERS!!!!

No matter Satin's possible station in the world, he literally has NOTHING to gain from killing Jon!!!! Jon comforted him when he was scared, stayed by his side while fighting, elevated his status {which includes living with Jon in his chambers instead of barracks full of men that hate him}, verbally tore apart all who talked shit about him, etc!!!!

The only thing Satin gains from killing one of his very few supporters, would be getting hurt and killed by enemies. Saying that Satin Flowers is one of the men that killed Jon Snow is about as believable as Sansa Stark causing the Doom Of Valyria {which happened centuries before she was born, but knowing Sansa antis, I'm sure they've found a way to blame her for that, too 🙄🙄💀💀}.

---

Or, Satin Flowers could be just as GRRM introduced him as: A former sex worker turned into a man of the Night’s Watch, nothing more, nothing less. But I have a feeling that GRRM has plans for Satin, and I PRAY those don't include hurting or killing him right after the mutiny, or him being a traitor. Either of those would kill Jon....again....💀💀💔💔

[katshuya]

Rhaegar and Lyanna Did Not Challenge the System or rebell against it as their fans claim.

This fan projection, “Rhaegar and Lyanna were victims of the patriarchal system. They just wanted love and freedom. If they had lived, they would have changed everything.” is built on romanticism, aesthetics, and modern values retrofitted onto two highborn characters who never actually rebelled against the structure they just benefited from it and escaped its responsibility then thought they could go back once things settle to enjoy its privilages.

And this is not to say Lyanna should have not escaped Robert. But the way she did it and with whom. It's about accountability.

Also, standing against injust and bullying (TKOTLT) doesn't equal or indicate she wanted to challenge patriarchy.

Rhaegar told Jaime he plans to make changes and doesn't equal giving women rights as men or chllanging a system that gives his authority and comfort. In fact, he had a firstborn daughter, but he named his son his heir. He wasn't a pro women's rights. And don't you blame Aerys being alive for it. Rhaegar clearly wanted his son as his heir as we were told in Dany's vision and being tpwwp doesn't mean you have to be king.

Do you think Rhaegar seriously would have spoken up to his nobles against arranged marriages and he wouldn't have arranged ones for his children? Like it or not they needed arranged marriages. And after the mess he pulled? Definitely.

Vague promises after starting a war ≠ desire to reform system and especially for women.

Rhaegar and Lyanna may have had personal senses of right and wrong and thought women were important too, but they were never willing to sacrifice their own privilege to bring structural change. In fact, when they wanted something, freedom, love, prophecy they used the same system they supposedly hated and still kept its privillages.

Justice in some context ≠ desire to change the system.

Good Deeds ≠ Systemic Rebellion

And it's not judge them for not being these modernized feminist people but:

-Their hypocrisy and the huge mess and hurt they caused along with the accountability that they dropped on other are absolutely fair to judge.

People try to excuse them as “just in love” or “didn’t mean harm.” “They were victims of patriarchy.”

They stopped being victims when they hurt others for their own benefits and still wanted its privilages. And again a man in political marriage is nothing compared to the woman.

And the outcome was not small collateral. It was:

The death of two innocent children. The murder of Elia, a woman abandoned without real protection. The civil war killed thousands and destabilized the entire realm.

They didn’t just “fall in love” they disappeared and expected to go back one day and still have the privilages of system they supposedly fough against and let everyone else carry their mess.

Duncan Targaryen gave up his claim. Jeneye had no known influence in court. And yet Rhaelle still paid the price. But what did Rhaegar and Lyanna give up for their perfect love? Nothing. They still wanted it all.

Lyanna's fans say she didn't desire to be queen. I agree. Yet they still want her to become queen along with Elia or by making Rhaegar "generously and very feminist-like send Elia back to her happiness in Dorne after using her to the end of the limits she could" or there are those who say she would be mistress and still have influence and freedom to ride horse and wave sword at enemies. They think even the queen version would have this freedom. And of course Jon has to be legetimized. And if he isn't he has very good influence like his mother.

On what grounds does Elia have to give up her position or share it with Lyanna? Elevating Lyanna for them always requires Elia to give up everything for her or share it. That is disgusting and misogynistic from them and from Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Like even if Elia was so fine with them (as if), why would she share this with Lyanna?

Your favorite couple isn't so just now, are they?

“They couldn’t have predicted the war.” “They were just in love.” “They were victims of their time.”

No they knew even if not detailed:

Rebellion had already happened in Westeros over a broken betrothal.

Aerys was a paranoid tyrant who burned people alive and already believed Rhaegar wanted to replace him running off with Lyanna looked like sedition.

Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon, a man who would absolutely take offense.

The Starks wouldn't just sit still because Aerys is mad. If anything it looked like Rhaegar was using his father's madness against them. You are doomed if you try to look for your "kidnapped" girl. Brandon was a fool but his reaction was expected.

They didn’t just act recklessly. They acted like the rules wouldn’t apply to them. They gave up nothing and wanted everything.

Rhaegar and Lyanna were not rebels. They were privileged youths who believed their story mattered more than the realm.

They didn’t dismantle the system. They simply tried to bend it for themselves. They wanted the benefits of patriarchy and monarchy without the consequences of duty, alliance, and loyalty. And when the consequences came anyway, they left others to bleed for their dreams.

Their fans still excuse them by saying “they meant well.” But intentions don’t erase corpses. They were not punished by the system. They weaponized it and got caught in the blast.

Even though I don’t believe age excuses someone from accountability, I do think Lyanna’s youth played a role in her failure to critically examine the system or her own hypocrisy within it. But age doesn’t explain away the pain and humiliation she helped inflict on Elia. Rhaegar bears the brunt of the blame, but Lyanna was old enough to know better. And by Ned’s own memories, we were told she was aware enough to understand the weight of what she inflicting upon Elia.

[atreeinthemoonlight]

Your previous post about Lyanna running away with Rhaegar—and how death freezes their mistakes and prevents them from facing consequences—I wholeheartedly agree with that. I do believe Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar, and while I pity her in many ways, I also feel she lacked foresight and was selfish to run off before her brother’s wedding, especially with the Crown Prince, not just some commoner. But I blame Rhaegar more—he was the Crown Prince and should’ve understood the political consequences of his actions.

As for the rebellion overall, if Lyanna had lived, no matter whether Rhaegar or Robert won, and the truth about her escape and the war that claimed thousands of lives, she would’ve lived a miserable life. In a world ruled by men, people would have seen her negatively and dishonorably. The Stark name would be ruined, not just in Westeros, but even in the North, despite the deaths of Rickard and Brandon. Let’s not forget, a lot of northern nobles died in that war. Honestly, even Ned might’ve hated Lyanna if she had lived—even if she told him she wanted to return after their father and brother were killed. The damage was already done.

What makes me laugh most is when Lyanna fans say that if Rhaegar had won and Lyanna, Elia, and her kids all lived, Ned would have rebelled to make Jon king. That just sounds illogical. Even if Ned could ignore his grief and resentment toward his sister, who was indirectly the reason for the deaths of his father and brother, and decided to fight for her son, why would the northern lords agree? Would they back the child of the woman who brought them so much suffering?

And even the racist southern lords—if we’re thinking their way—would choose Aegon over Jon. Aegon has Valyrian looks, while Jon looks Northern and carries his mother’s bad reputation. Remember Maekar and Baelor? Both had the same Dornish mother, but they preferred Maekar because he looked more Valyrian.

And let's not forget Lady Barbary Dustin—she hated Ned just for not bringing her husband’s bones home. Imagine if the North found out their loved ones died because a girl just wanted to run off with the prince. Stark's honor would’ve been shattered forever.

So yeah, George knew what he was doing when he killed Lyanna off. And even Ned, who realized his sister wasn’t really a victim and said the “wolf’s blood” brought her to an early grave, Ned doesn’t hate his sister because she died. Like you said, death freezes mistakes and keeps the dead from facing the consequences

Even Lyanna’s own stans know their ship would only bring endless disaster to Westeros — one war for the elopement, another for the second Blackfyre Rebellion.They really think the North would let her call the banners twice?

Fans love to dream—and in their dreams, everything goes their way.They act like there’s no way to pin the Rebellion on Rhaegar and Lyanna — as if their choices weren’t the match that lit the whole fire.They act like vassals owe their liege lords absolute, unquestioning loyalty.And the common folk?Treated like insects — their deaths blamed on Robert and Tywin.They’ll just be expected to warmly welcome Rhaegar descending from the heavens to save them from the very ruin he helped cause.Rhaegar and Lyanna would never be blamed,not even for a second.

Honestly, the fics on AO3 are often more realistic,at least they acknowledge that Northerners deserve real, human reactions—not just to be background props for Lyanna’s grand love story.Lyanna couldn’t go back to the North ever again.The Northerners wouldn’t welcome her anymore.And the common folk? Think of in Anne’s thousand days,Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn’s wedding parade.

Maybe I should give them a suggestion,have them frame Aegon for executing Ned Stark. He dies in the main story anyway, right? (Sorry,Ned,forgive me)That way the North will join the war. Just like last time, Lyanna’s specialty is dragging down her father and brothers.Sacrifice her father and one brother to become Rhaegar’s mistress, then sacrifice another one and her son gets the crown,how’s that for a winning strategy?

I suggest them instead of fantasizing about Jon becoming king, they should first ask themselves:How was Ned ever supposed to explain the elopement to the Northern bannermen? If they can’t even get past that hurdle, they really shouldn’t be dreaming so big.The Mormonts probably wouldn’t be naming their daughter Lyanna after all that.

And this timeline,don’t forget Robb—we already had him who threw everything away for love.If the previous generation had done the same?Is this hereditary or something?If the North found out Lyanna chose to run off, had a child, and that child was Jon Snow,Ned lied to everyone for years…Targaryens were abandoned by their own subjects,why would the Starks be any different?

[polarysvelaryon]

I hate R+L stories for several reasons, the main ones being the obvious romanticization of a horrible scenario (it doesn't matter from which angle you look at it, whether it's Lyanna being innocently deceived by this older man or her voluntarily running away with him because she's in love), but I think what irritates me the most are stories where Rhaegar becomes king and keeps Lyanna as his queen/second wife.

Usually these stories use some far-fetched justification for this marriage to be legalized and, for some reason, Rhaegar is seen as very clever in his move (and if you think about it for two minutes, the explanations are terrible because marriage in Westeros is extremely well explained and conceptualized because it's not just a romantic thing but also contracts and alliances).

One of two things: either Rhaegar managed to get the High Sept to annul his marriage to Elia because she's a pagan Dornish slut who obviously deviated from her vows, and...the Dornish are followers of the Seven. Sure, I love the Rhoynares but it is very well explained that the worship of Mother Rhoyne stayed in Essos with a small exception of people who live on a river, Martell are followers of the 7, not pagan.

In fact, if that were the justification, the High Sept would be more inclined to refuse the marriage with Lyanna since she would be "pagan". Remember, the North worships the old gods, the Starks worship the old gods and in general are as frowned upon as the Dornish for their "different ways". If it were a woman from the Reach like Margaery or an Arryn, or even Cersei, this speech might make sense but not with Lyanna (and not without starting a conflict with Dorne because Elia's marriage was completely official, in front of several nobles, with a bedding ceremony and with two healthy children and even an heir).

The second is that thing about them getting married by the old gods and not the new ones. Okay, okay. Marriages in Westeros are recognized, in the same way that you get married by the old gods and your marriage is valid, you get married by the new gods, or in Valyrian ceremonies or whatever the ironborn do. Of these religions, only the Drowned God allows more than one wife, and even then only a stone wife, only a real one. The Targaryens gave up the right to marry more than one wife centuries ago, and the First Men, despite having affairs, are usually folkloric figures or the free folk beyond the Wall. You don't see Northern Lords with multiple wives.

And if we are talking about the Valyrians, it is also important to mention that Aegon never married for the 7 gods, he was only anointed as king after. And even then his marriage was not considered the norm (the normal thing apparently would be to marry only the oldest son and daughter).

[cowboysanddragons23]

Debunking Rhaelya shippers' arguments:

-"Dorne doesn't frown on polygamy.": Dorne is very sexually liberal in many things, but polygamy is not one of them. They are still a class society (ex. Oberyn would never marry Ellaria even though he genuinely loves her, Quentyn Martell was a virgin and Arianne would never marry Daemon Sand.) and polygamy is illegal under the eyes of the Old and New Gods and since Jaehaerys I outlawed it and for a very good reason.

-"Elia and Rhaegar had an agreement about his affair with Lyanna." "Elia would have been ok with Rhaegar going with Lyanna." "Rhaegar took Lyanna as a second wife along with Elia.": Elia would have never agreed to Rhaegar cavorting with Lyanna, because that would be giving her enemies a recently sharpened sword to murder her and her children, as she knows that the cause of the Blackfyre Rebellions was the anti Dornish sentiment towards Myriah Martell and her son Baelor. Also, Maegor was the last Targaryen king who attempted enforced polygamy having a dragon and even he couldn't make the Faith bow. Rhaegar has no dragons to inspire obedience.

-"Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love." "Rhaegar and Lyanna was a love story." "Rhaegar would have been a great king." "Rhaegar would care about Jon." "Rhaegar and Lyanna could have been a great king and queen.": There is no evidence that points out that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, aside from the testimony of Barristan Selmy (who was never at the Tower of Joy, thus he doesn't know what truly happened). Rhaegar was Summerhall made flesh; obsession with prophecies, grandiose plans to save the world and willingness to sacrifice women into its altar. He took Lyanna because he wanted to prove that the prophecy that led to his birth was real and that the sacrifices his family made were worth something. Whatever fondness he had for Lyanna, his Third Head of the Dragon always came first. Rhaegar and Lyanna wouldn't have been good parents to Jon, because the former would give up on him from birth because he isn't the Visenya he wanted and the latter would be too young to be a mother (Viserys II and Larra Rogare everyone?). And besides, thousands died for it and the same happened when Duncan Targaryen married Jenny of Oldstones (who are exactly the romantic love story Rhaelya is erroneously interpreted as). Rhaegar is too obsessed with prophecies and Lyanna is utterly disinterested in ladylike pursuits.

[franzkafkagf]

top 5 most tragic grrm characters?

ohh such a wonderful question! ♡

Theon Greyjoy

When Theon says he shouldve died with Robb at the Red Wedding... rarely did I cry so hard. For one it shows that he has given up at life ever becoming better—his entire having been worn down by Ramsay. It also shows his genuine remorse towards the betrayal of the one person he loved most in the world. The worst thing about it? Theon has no one to blame for it but himself. This line is the final admission that he fucked up, and that what has been broken can never be mended again.

2. Catelyn Stark

No, don’t, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair. Catelyn's chapters just get sadder and sadder until the end. She loved her children so fiercely; and yet that blind devotion and love for them ends up causing so much death and destruction. Catelyn was a good person, whose only goal was to save her own and serve justice for her husband's death—her intentions were good, and yet she dies in the belief that her children were all dead and that all hope was lost.

3. Aegon II Targaryen

Aegon is a hard one to pin down for me because he is certainly tragic, but we don't know him the same way we do the POV characters. But it fits perfectly; he was forced to take the throne against his will, and when he accepts it and finally finds some sort of drive and purpose, his peace is cruelly snatched away from him in the form of the murder of his son. After that it's just a continuous downward spiral—he is burned and unable to walk, he runs away and while he is in hiding he hears of everyone he ever knew dying. He quite literally lost everything but his daughter— and even she he didn't get to see again; dying before being able to. He quite literally was both made and destroyed by the weight of a crown he never wanted. I think I'd sell my soul to get a few POV chapters from Aegon... imagine.

4. Elia Martell

Left behind with her babies by her husband, the man that was supposed to protect and care for them. Her death was so cruel—having to see her children die and then be brutalized herself. She had only ever been a dutiful wife and mother, and Rhaegar paid her absolute dust. The realm didn't deserve her. Need Aegon VI to be real so he can take revenge for how they treated his mother. And what for? Why did this poor woman do? What did she have to pay for? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All that happened to her happened in service of a dusty and aged prophecy.

5. Cersei Lannister

She had been doomed by her own flaws from the very beginning. She grows up wanting to be something else than what she's supposed to be. This noble girl with a bit too much ambition, more than what's good for her as a girl in that world, certainly. The prophecy she holds onto promises riches and greatness, but also spell her eventual doom. This is the end of her—she sees a threat in everyone and alienates the people that could've actually saved her from the tragedy she has imposed upon herself.

[inkandarsenic]

Ok, so expanding on this post for @heartofmortis, meet my newest oc, Nymeria Targaryen

- youngest daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell, born in 283 AC, like a month or so before the sack of KL

- conceived as soon as possible after Aegon, just before the maesters declared Elia unable to have more children and Rhaegar subsequently ran off with Lyanna

- named Nymeria because Elia knew Rhaegar would’ve wanted her named Visenya, but Rhaegar ran off to have a third child with the Northern girl before he could even be informed of this pregnancy, so Elia decided to name her daughter after the legendary warrior Princess of Dorne (call it rebellion if you will — this pregnancy so soon after Aegon’s nearly killed her, and he decides he needs a daughter with the Stark girl? Fine. Elia will name her daughter from her culture, not his. Let him get his Visenya elsewhere.)

- Smuggled by her wetnurse through siege tunnels out to where Rhaella and Viserys were evacuating to Dragonstone. in the chaos after Rhaella’s death, only Viserys and Daenerys are smuggled off of Dragonstone. Stannis arrives to find a terrified nursemaid and a screaming infant less than a year old.

- Raised by Stannis Baratheon, who heard how his brother laughed at the two dead children of Elia, and refused to hand over Nymeria — Stannis is many things, but he isn’t a child-murderer yet

- She’s his ward, and technically also a hostage to keep Dorne from rising up over Elia and her children’s death — Nymeria is the last link to Elia Dorne has.

- Uses Martell name when introducing herself. Tries to distance herself from her Targaryen lineage — was raised on stories of all of the bad parts of the Targaryens as her bedtime stories and history lessons, and doesn’t like them at all.

- Oberyn and Doran work it out with Stannis so that Nymeria can be visited — under supervision, and mostly Oberyn as Doran is busier ruling Dorne — on Dragonstone by her mother’s family, and when she’s a bit older, she often spends a few months each year in Dorne. (You can pry reluctant friends Oberyn and Stannis out of my cold dead hands.)

- Robert tries HARD to get Nym betrothed to Jon — in his mind, Ned’s bastard son is more than deserving of a former princess, and what better way to keep the Targaryen spawn from rising against him than marrying her off to the son of his best friend? To his endless frustration, this goes nowhere — both Stannis and the Martells (who are actually responsible for Nym’s marriage prospects) refuse the idea — Stannis because Jon’s a bastard, the Martells because they very much do not like Robert — and Ned also refuses with no real explanation (“Jon is free to choose his own wife, Robert” when really it’s because Jon is Nym’s half brother through Rhaegar)

- Likes to help out Stannis’ maester and takes an interest in healing — both Stannis and Oberyn agree that this is a useful skill, and let her learn all she can.

- Rides out with Stannis when he goes to war; Melisandre keeps trying to convince Stannis to sacrifice her, and after Renly dies, Davos convinces Nymeria to leave, for her own safety.

- She originally intends to go south to Dorne, but comes across Catelyn and Brienne first. Upon hearing how Renly died and recognizing the account of Melisandre’s work, she realizes Dorne would be the first place Stannis would look for her — whatever Melisandre so desperately wanted Nym sacrificed for cannot be good — and she decides to go with Catelyn and Brienne to Robb’s camp instead. You can never have too many medics in a war.

- Our boy is WEAK to the pretty healers, weak I tell you, and this one is Westerosi, highborn (a princess, technically— rightful heir to the Iron Throne) and she’s a politically advantageous (the princes of Dorne would surely be on his side if he married their niece) match to boot??? He doesn’t stand a chance.

[horizon-verizon]

Every time I see a post about "King Jon" being the rightful ruler, it makes me root for Young Griff to be the real deal even more—just to shatter the whole fantasy of Jon being the “secret prince.” Jon is a bastard; he has no legitimate claim over either "Aegon" or Daenerys. Even if Young Griff was real, he still wouldn’t have a solid claim to the throne because Rhaegar was effectively disinherited when Aerys named Viserys as his heir. That leaves Daenerys (unfortunately for the haters) as the only legitimate Targaryen with a real claim. But despite this, people still twist the argument, saying things like, “Well, the Mad King could’ve disinherited Rhaegar and named Viserys heir, but Rhaegar’s son would still come before Daenerys.” It’s such a reach. Another take I can’t stand is“the king’s word doesn’t matter after he’s dead.” Aerys proclaimed Viserys as his heir while he was still alive. This is the same argument used against Rhaenyra’s claim...

Another take I can’t stand is“the king’s word doesn’t matter after he’s dead.” Aerys proclaimed Viserys as his heir while he was still alive. This is the same argument used against Rhaenyra’s claim…

Pre-LyannaxRhaegar running off, in AWoIaF, Yandel notes that tensions at court between Rhaegar and Aerys (and their factions) was similar to what was described for what existed b/t Rhaenyra and Alicent and their parties. This was deliberate on GRRM's part, yes, and I see people using this fact to make the case about how there would be more support for Jon or FAegon over Dany, as Rhaegar, no matter what, was the firstborn. Symbolism and foreshadowing and all that, third time the charm or whatever.

ONE, Duncan the brown-haired prince was also the firstborn of his set of siblings...he gave up the throne entirely to stay married to Jenny of Oldstones. The verbiage is "abdicated". The guy didn't just "give it up", Aegon V, his father, continued to not grant him the title of Prince of Dragonstone when Duncan continued to refuse to put Jenny aside. Before that, it's made clear Aegon didn't want him married to a "commoner", so Duncan's title was always up to Aegon's will. After he abdicated, he was called the "Prince of Dragonflies", instead as a sort of mock, but again, he lost/gave up the entire position and all its privileges and rights.

His kids/line would be totally removed from any rights to the throne. Aegon V didn't want that, and he capitulated, so then Duncan got to have the girl AND be still a prince. Even if Aegon had died, Duncan married a common girl who was "crazy" and listened to short suspicious woman she claimed was a child of the forest, any kids they could have had wouldn't be popular and there'd be debate over how "legitimate" or how much "real" appropriate "blood" they'd have possibly to have rights to the throne...similar to how real-life European nobles defined a "bastard" by how the parents didn't have matching-enough statuses and not necessarily just them being unmarried (pre-1300s). That and the easy accusation of witchery and magic in that kid's "blood" or practice. This is a headcanon of mine, but I also think it's a good speculation as it brings up Westerosi perspective of class and magic.

Perhaps this means more that Duncan's choice of woman would be more why his hypothetical kids with her wouldn't be accepted or very much supported more than the fact that Aegon V persisted in not allowing Duncan to continue not being his heir...but even though Lyanna was definitly a "fit" bride for a Targ prince in character or rank, even an heir...well I already note why it would work below. Rhaegar's conduct in "kidnapping" a lord's betrothed daughter, impregnating and "spoiling" her, puts that child of Rhaelya in a similar boat to Duncan and Jenny's child, and Lyanna is a "savage" northern girl who isn't as much of a "proper" lady, either.

You might argue why Elia's marriage to Rhaegar makes no question--hypothetically if their kids had been alloowed to live--as to their kids' right to the throne despite how nonDornish Westerosi view Dornish people. It's because their marriage was Faith and state-sanctioned and arranged through the "proper" channels. No independent will involved there at all setting up the marriage on the actual couple's parts.

When you add what I say below, Aerys II having refused to acknowledge Rhaegar and his line as his heirs when those heirs don't even really exist or be a part of the succession definitely tips the scales in Dany's favor. Not FAegon either (again, below), DANY. Rhaegar inadvertedly, in another ironic layer, paved Dany's way to the throne.

TWO, Let's talk about Rhaenyra & Dany. Like Rhaenyra, Dany has actually practiced rule and had dragons. The relevant differences, however, bt Dany and Rhaenyra is that:

Rhaenyra had oaths from most lords as arranged by her father to solidify their loyalties to her so that his word does matter that much more, so yeah Dany does have a comparative vulnerability

Rhaenyra's lived in Westeros all her life and further strengthened those ties later on in a tour (proximity), people know her and she even was very popular amongst both nobles and peasants enough to have her own moniker

Dany has all the dragons or is the ONLY party with dragons in any any confrontation she'd be in, whereas Rhaenyra had dragons...but her rivals & brothers/the greens also had dragons...so Dany is better off there

A monarch's word post death does matter, but it also loses its authority the more material power the living has or can use against their intentions. This is true. That does not mean that the monarch's word doesn't give an edge to further legitmize why one should rule, esp when that person has a certain disadvantage or has an identity that tradition doesn't grant the right or ability to inherit certain leaderships, like being a woman or being a bastard. As we saw what happened with Edward III's death and William the Conqueror's claim including that of all Edward's other sons. He claimed that he had been chosen...and just like Dany, William had the arms to back up that claim. Why bother, bc he was an illegitmate scion of a relative, so he had to use something even other than arms and soldiers to legitmize why his rule be accepted.

The other possible candidates vying for the throne? I explain below why FAegon and Jon has critical issues for their abilites to amass support for themselves, passively or actively.

THREE, one issue is that ALL three people are also "foreigners" in their own way. Dany and FAegon, obvious, they grew up in Essos and were most active in Essos. Jon maybe Westerosi, but he's not only a bastard but also way more Stark in expected/traditional behavior AND he is a northerner. King's Landing and the rest of Westeros are Faith/Seven-worshipping Andal descendants with a lot of suspicion and disdain for northeners, who have been called "savage" several times througout Westerosi history. You can find many examples in F&B! And Jon is likely never leaving Ghost behind to rule anything--we saw how "southrons" saw and treated the direworlves when all the Stark kids went down with them...what more a completely white, red-eyed magical animal? He may be the closest thing to a "real" Westerosi...but he's a tree-worshipper...and the Faith wouldn't want a king who wouldn't convert as their ruler. (Dany, idk if she'd even "officially" be of the Faith I can't even see that for her, but neither do I really see her ruling Westeros nor do I see jon or FAegon doing this either bc of the possible results from the Long Night).

Not only that, he's Commander of the Night's Watch, a post most people find useless down south. Dany might be a foreign queen who devotes herself "too much" to freeing slaves as Jon works to provide shelter to the "savage" freefolk, but she has ruled as something closer to the position of a monarch they are familair with and respect. Over real (or believed-in) things and people. An entire city and not "just" a penal colony. And as to Jon, the entire Wall is understood as an unnecesaary drain of resources on the rest of the real bc it's up against creatures of fairytales. (I don't mean that the freefolk are unreal to the rest of Westeros, the city and giants and Others are.) They could think that he didn't really do much other than freeze, as they don't think there'd be much comparatively much to do. Their mistake, but one that could very well determine their outlook of the two. Now, why would I mention experience mattering bt Dany and Jon in the eyes of Westerosi lords? Because they are looking for stability and quick stability after the recent wat and the burgeoning tensions the Lannisters have fostered.

Barring that, another issue is that Jon is and always will be a bastard because the Doctrine of Exceptionalism was about sibling marriage as a privilege of the Targs, NOT polygamy! We have no evidence whatosever that bk!Lyanna and Rhaegar even eloped! To get that Doctrine, Jaehaerys had to work hard (or devise how others would in his stead but he and his council picked the perfect people), it didn't come in a year of peaceful negotiations! It came after Maegor's decimation or severe reduction of the Faith's Militant AND Jaehaerys' later careful manupulations (and the appointment of an amicable new High Septon). There has always been an implied but obvious agreement that the Targs would never have polygamy as a royal privilege, as we see the Targs never have polygamous partners after Maegor I. (Not polyamourous, polygamous...very two different things). Likewise, Rhaegar would first have to win against Aerys and then mess with the Faith and have the rules bent for him if he ever wanted to take Lyanna as his legal second wife if he ever wanted to, or secretly married her or wanted to later...but he died way before all that.

With FAegon, the story is that the Aegon who was murdered alongside his mother & sister was literally an infant or a toddler (I foregt which) when he was killed...who is around to confirm the claim that he is who he says he is? He can only succeed if Varys manages to get rid of possible competition, destabilize the current government by subterfuge and secret blood, and/or have the peasants (who can be easily swayed if there's a promise of support and food) show support and seem like they'd get active or disobeident to their overlords and those overlord's vassals. Again, he was raised in Essos and even if he was the actual Aegon, no one with the appropriate credit (to my memory) is at hand to say he shares the exact features or enough as that baby...bc people don't look like their baby selves often. Unlike Viserys II, who was taken to Essos at 8 or so and came back in just a few short years, FAegon spent way too much time in Essos to be seen as none other than a foreigner AND there's no way to confirm his claimed identity. Nor does he even have dragons! Which all runs the risk of inspiring even more and longer dissent and chaos and division bc people (nobles) would be divided further into camps of following him to use him, those against those people and most trying to stay out of it bc they literally just got out of the War of Five Kings.

And you may be able to argue that some part of Aegon's issue is the same for Jon--who will confirm Jon's being Rhaegar's bastard through Lyanna? But that would be easier than for Jon bc Ned took Jon in and others can easily come to the conclusion that it'd be the honor-loving Ned Stark who wouldn't offer his own nephew up to even his king and best friend. A weird sort of kin-slaying some might say maybe, but idk.

Other than that, unlike Dany, Aegon was told to be dead...and this rando kid claims to be a dead baby. Dany, all the realm knew, fled Westeros as a baby with Viserys and a knight that though is not in the mortal coil anymore was also accompanied by a Pentoshi merchant at some point...everyone knows where she is and that Barristan Selmy is with her. Robert the wanted to have her and her brother killed when he took over and was angry when they got away. Later, Robert's council took the news of her existence and rise seriously and Robert wanted her dead, which means the entire realm knew about her, and obviously her awakening the dragons confirms who she is. The fact that she woke dragons up once again, even tou many at court at first and still don't believe that she has. She has the foreigner Essosi woman who leads a Dorthaki "savage" hoard thing against her, but she has the Valyrian look, the legitimacy, and the DRAGONS to prove her lineage and identity. And she has the firepower, literally, to assure a more guaranteed victory apart from her Dothraki fighters. She is a much more comfortable choice for nobles to fight or fight behind the scenes for.

So regardless of Aerys' disinheriting Rhaegar's line...she still has a very good chance of getting a lot of support and much more than either man, genuine or not. At least from here.

I am not saying that the Dance did not set a dangerous precedent for her either and that there's still a good chance of Jon passively and involuntarily inspiring people to call for his being named king enough to raise arms or at least try to take Dany out secretly to make room for him--not FAegon, bc that identity is just too much of a hangup for him. But to say she'd have very little to none supporting and wanting her to rule in comparison to these two is simply weird and misleading.