#the ashford theory

[lemoncakz]

Ashford Tourney Theory

It’s a strange coincidence that the champions of the Ashford Tourney, from the Dunk and Egg stories, seem to follow the pattern of Sansa’s suitors in the series.

[catofoldstones]

The Ashford Theory and my patience running thin

Welcome, welcome my guys, gals and non-binary pals, to another scream into the void that the Ashford theory is, in fact, very jonsa

On to the arguments!

1. The suitor has to have the correct last name, not family, look at Joffrey Baratheon, you stupid jonsa

Hypothesis - the suitor has to have the corresponding name, not family, and because Jon is a Snow he’s out of the running. The other prong is fAegon who is actually a Blackfyre and not Targeryen, who can also be the suitor.

Thesis - Joffrey is the only other suitor to have a different name. Joffrey and Jon have also been set up as foils from the start of AGOT. Joffrey is a bastard masquerading as the rightful king and Jon is the rightful king (thrice crowned) masquerading as a bastard. It makes sense that they are the only two suitors to have the wrong name as this establishes them as inverses in another way. The last suitor being the foil of the horrible first suitor thereby showing character growth, and plot progression and resolution? Count me in.

As for Young Griff being a Blackfyre, here’s a meta or two, maybe even an argument, for him being the real Aegon VI Targaryen but take my personal fav evidences of Tyrion figuring out that Young Griff is Aegon VI Targaryen and then, Varys literally telling a dying Kevan Lannister about the true Targaryen prince and why would you lie to a dying man? How does that serve your purpose?

This is literally grrm telling us who Young Griff actually is, though this does not count him I out of the contenders, it reduces the weight of him being the fifth suitor, due to story arcs and well, his doomed fate.

Conclusion - While Aegon VI is a strong contender, there is much, much more literary weight and nuance with Jon being the Targaryen suitor.

2. Lady Ashford was not crowned the Queen of Love and Beauty by any champion!!! Take that jonsas

Hypothesis - tQoLaB is a title analogous to a betrothal/love interest

Thesis - there have been no allusions to the title of tQoLaB while trying to foreshadow a relationship, except for a really, really bad one (r + l) that plunged the whole realm into a civil war and we should not take that as a good sign

Conclusion - we’re grasping at straws here besties

3. Dunk disrupted the Ashford Tourney, therefore Sxndxr will disrupt Sansa’s prospects and other things

Hypothesis - Dunk & Sxndxr are are analogous and since there was no conclusion to the Tourney we can safely assume that it’s sxnsxn foreshadowing

Thesis - Brienne is the Dunk asoiaf corollary, not Sxndxr. Brienne is theorized to be Dunk’s descendant. She even has her shield painted like Dunk’s, apart from their striking character parallels and being a true foil to all the other knights in the story. Mr. Gravedigger is just tall :/

“Your door reminded me of an old shield I once saw in my father’s armory.”

Brienne II, AFFC

Brienne has Dunk’s shield in her family home possibly because she’s a descendant of Dunk but then goes ahead and gets her shield painted exactly like this one

“[The painted shield] was more a picture than a proper coat of arms, and the sight of it took her back through the long years, to the cool dark of her father’s armory. She remembered how she’d run her fingertips across the cracked and fading paint, over the green leaves of the tree, and along the path of the falling star.”

Brienne II, AFFC

Secondly, just because the tourney did not have a (satisfactory) conclusion does not mean that the tourney did not exist to serve a purpose. I doubt grrm would likely give out his whole story as early as 1998.

Conclusion - BRIENSA 4eva!!!!!

4. Valarr Targaryen died of a sickness and Aegon VI is doomed to die and is connected to a sickness, are you looking at the nerves popping out of my thick, brainy skull

Thesis - the fifth suitor is 100% Aegon and there’s no one else

Hypothesis - there is a Targaryen.. currently dead.. in the books… (thnk u @istumpysk for ur galaxy brain). The plague in the story serves to connects Aegon more to Dany than to a northern girl he doesn’t know about and might not like since she’s a Stark and his mother is Elia Martell.

Conclusion - jonsa

5. This is all a coincidence & u jonsas are reaching as always

Hypothesis - though george is known to tie every deep end, every crack theory, even farfetched ones that the readers have not caught, this one thing completely skipped his notice because exceptions are always there

Thesis - yes, because this is acotar & not asoiaf and he’s not grrm, i am

Conclusion - JONSAAAAAAAAAAAA

[atopvisenyashill]

The Girl In Grey And The Tourney

After narrowly escaping Lady Stoneheart with her life, Brienne follows a lead to the Vale, just in time for the tourney for the Brotherhood of Winged Knights. Before the tourney’s end, however, Ser Shadrich reveals the Lord Protector’s baseborn daughter Alayne Stone to be Sansa Stark and attempts to take her into custody to face justice for kingslaying.

But a True Knight steps forward and demands a trial by combat, saving Sansa from arrest. When the two finally catch a moment alone, Sansa asks Brienne to take her away from the Vale, and go to the only family Sansa has left alive in the North - Jon Snow.

[esther-dot]

lysa wanted to marry sansa and robert arryn, does that debunk the ashford theory?

I haven't read the Hedge Knight so this isn't my thing, anon, but Martin has talked about how much he knows regarding the as yet to be written story, and it is a lot. Not only do we know of certain mysteries he's unraveling across the series (R+L=J), he's spoken about how he likes to have things readers will catch on rereads, so it makes sense to me that Martin knew Sansa had been betrothed to to Joffrey, would be marrying Tyrion, that he also knew her endgame romance, and that while writing the novella, he created a little nod to it. Aligning it completely doesn't need to be the goal, anymore than we would expect a carbon copy of pre canon events replaying in canon in any other scenario, but we certainly see the echos and references of pre canon in canon, and I have to think that's the case here.

Also, Sansa is about to be present at a tourney in TWOW, she's talking about her favor, there's this whole pre canon thing about a Stark girl and Targ at a tourney, so it doesn't feel weird to think maybe Sansa was on Martin's mind. And of course, in canon, Sansa is the maiden fair which is interesting when the Ashford girl is referred to as fair maid, and this idea of a revolving door of champions is very reminiscent of Sansa's unfortunate experiences thus far, with men who help her, fail her/hurt her, and then on to the next (the Hound, Tyrion, Dontos, LF...).

A potential match with Sweetrobin doesn't feel like an obstacle to everything that does make this feel like a thing, especially when, it is not merely the matching names that connect the two, it's the details that create all sorts of parallels with Jon, making him seem like the canon Targ this will ultimately be about. Let's revisit that revolving door of "champions" for Sansa, who is the guy who killed her monster in canon? 🤔 butterflies-dragons wrote a lengthy meta in 2021 about all of the Jon hints, and I find there's too much pointing to it all as quite intentional, even with a missing Robin.

Since I've been digging around in old posts and saw a bit of the evolution on this theory, I'll just point out, a lot of people were happy to consider this foreshadwoing for Sansa and Aegon, but the "Sansa is going North" fans rejected that, and it's funny that when people started to consider that her likely path, the theory had to be abandoned when, there's a Targ in the North too.

I'll go ahead and link to a several more posts I saw about it, in case anyone is interested. 2017 post (show verse), possible reference to it in GoT, and a 2018 meta that also considers Jon.

These two 2015 gifsets use the Ashford theory for the Sansa x Aegon pairing (1, 2), these two use Jon or Aegon (2016, 2018), and here's a Jonsa one.

There's also a Jonsa fic inspired by the theory, originally posted in 2016.

[smthfunnyhappenedonthewaytor3]

Milly: Suzaku is in jail. Rivalz: Suzaku is in jail?! Kallen, to Lelouch: You called it.

[key-to-the-north]

first they steal their theories and then say they don’t have any credibility… I’ve never seen snsn fans argue with this lot but they still feel so threatened they need to disparage a relationship underlined with actual canon romantic tones confirmed by the writer himself. well, truly pathetic… but again, when jonsas aren’t?

[hollowwhisperings]

Blackfyre Conquest: An Autumn King

i've struggled to find any Meta on how Young Griff's conquest will go, politically & logistically, that don't immediately interrupt themselves with "...but then Dany will show up with Dragons".

A lot of fans are very pro-Targaryen and pro-Conquest: a lot of Westeros would probably be on board too, though for less romantic reasons. No one "loves" the commander of a foreign army & Ned successfully rallied a Rebellion with very good reasons. The Targaryens were never entirely welcome in Westeros but the War of the Five Kings certainly made a "return to stability" with a Targ King an easier sell than it would have been earlier in the series. That this Targ King is non-incestuous, seemingly sane, has a sizeable Army, has multiple houses already sworn to him... and seems to be an Actual Politician? The Lords might frown at exactly "how" legitimate their King really is but, overall, "Aegon VI" would be vastly preferable to who Westeros has currently:

1) an increasingly unpopular Queen-Regent whose family Did The Red Wedding & whose claim rests on a toddler-king of Dubious Parentage.

2) a King who's lost his Lands to the foreign invader, has a Pet Witch (called his "true" queen) who burns people alive, has converted to a Foreign Religion (& burned religious sites), is a rumoured Kinslayer, and was Never Very Popular in the first place (Stannis doesn't take bribes, keeps insisting his disabled daughter is his Heir, went to help the Night's Watch for Some Reason, wasn't as fun as his brothers, makes poor conversation at parties, etc) .

3) Euron Greyjoy.

4) a theoretical infant child of King Robb of the North & Trident... and the Treacherous Jeyne Westerling whom he Lost a war over.

5) Robb's legal heir as per his last Will, his "brother" Jon whom he legitimised as "Stark" but is currently busy being the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch (it is unlikely that Jon's getting murdered by his men would be Advertised to the Realm & though Jon is almost certainly going to pull a Dany in WoW, he is currently a Ghost).

6) the allegedly sole surviving non-bastard Stark, Prince Rickon, who's spent the past few [books] entirely raised by [Freefolk] & is a toddler.

7) Some Targaryen Girl in Essos, last seen while... on fire & being abductes by her own dragon, apparently.

While most Lords will see Aegon's commanding the Golden Company as a Pretty Obvious allusion to his not actually being the miraculously surviving son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen & Princess Elia Martell. The "truth" of Young Griff's identity is pretty irrelevant to his successfully conquering Westeros (which seems very likely, give or take a Kingdom). Robert Baratheon's kingship was won by conquest: his grandmother being a Targaryen princess was an afterthought, an extra touch of "legitimacy". Tommen's claim to the Iron Throne is through his legal status as King Robert's surviving Heir. Stannis's claim is through the illegitimacy of Joffrey & Tommen's claims making him Robert's heir instead.

Aegon's claim to the Iron Throne is not actually his alleged parentage: it's through Conquest (the same would be true for Dany, Euron and any Heir of King Robb). Most Lords would see the Golden Company, famously founded to make a Blackfyre king, and conclude that Aegon is a Blackfyre Pretender: this is, in the short-term, irrelevant.

Some might rejoice at the alleged survival of one of Prince Rhaegar or Princess Elia's children: Targaryen Loyalists, the Dornish, smallfolk out of the loop on why there was a Rebellion. Ned Stark Loyalists would know Ned mourned for Princess Elia & her children, that Robert became King because Ned wasn't interested & be more concerned about Winter than how recently incestuous the latest Southron King's family tree may be.

As far as most of Westeros is aware [going into Winds], its Key Requirements for a Monarch are: being Alive & (ideally) Sane, being Old Enough to reign unsupervised (15 at minimum), having a loyal Army (see: Euronpocalypse, the Red Wedding, the lawlessness of the Riverlands), being Male, not being the immediate product of incest (Tommen aside, Prince Rhaegar only had 2 great-grandparents), not being a blasphemous arsonist, & not being in debt to the Iron Bank.

Robb Loyalists, those still surviving, would Wisely stand back and allow the Golden Company to deal with the Bolton-Lannister-Frey alliance: even if Jeyne Westerling is found alive & with an infant son, few would accept her and most would be unwilling to replace one child monarch with another (that applies to Rickon too). Northerners are proud but, as one of those Dead Starks might say, Winter is Coming.

The Wars over the series have made the southern land route impassable: the Twins are held by the treacherous Freys, the Riverlands are a lawless hellscape, King's Landing is run by Lannisters & Tyrells, and the Reach is itself "Tyrell Territory". With such a dangerous land route, the North relies on itself & seatrade. While the North does have eastern ports that allow trade with the Vale, the Vale itself is currently held by Petyr Baelish, publically aligned with the Lannister Regime. The North's primary port, White Harbour (held by Lord Wyman Manderly, known Stark Loyalist) is on its western coast, along the Narrow Sea. Euron & rogue Ironborn aside, Aegon's Armies have already seized Storm's End after coming across said sea. Having already seized Storm's End and with Aurane Waters' having Absconded with the Crown's Fleet that would guard the Blackwater... The Golden Company can comfortably blockade all traffic from Westeros to Essos (give or take a Lys). Even assuming Aurane Waters isn't in cahoots with Team Aegon (he's a Velaryon bastard), he took the Crown's fleet to the Stepstones and thus holds control over naval passage between the eastern & western coasts of Westeros (& to Dorne).

So, unless Sansa usurps control of the Vale from Baelish within the first third of Winds; unless Prince Doran or seadragons take out Aurane Waters' pirate fleet; unless the Golden Company's AND Euron's respective fleets get taken out without ANOTHER navy taking their place... Westeros really, really needs Aegon to successfully conquer Westeros if only to quickly reestablish vital trade routes for Winter.

Speaking of Euron's fleet and Trouble at Oldtown... there is Trouble At Oldtown and no one is equipped to keep it contained: on land, the sons of Lord Hightower have been taking the Ironborn threat seriously (with Lord Hightower seemingly having Anticipated the supernatural threat Euron seeks to invoke though how successful his & his daughter's Efforts may be remains Unknown); at sea, the Redwyne Fleet is Worried & very probably in Cahoots with Aegon. It will be a Trip, going back to sea from the Stormlands & then South to Oldtown, but a Redwyne-Velaryon-Blackfyre Naval Alliance is the Best and Geographically Closest forces available to Oldtown.

There are a few characters who've been sent to seek aid from Essos, given the Ironborn threat & the general political instability: Prince Quentyn was one (RIP) and Lord Hightower's youngest son, Ser Humfrey, is another. If the Hightowers weren't Team Aegon before, they soon will be.

The Reach is an increasingly vital kingdom to the survival of Westeros: with the Riverlands in the state it is & with the ongoing socio-economic fallout of Dany's very sudden conquests of half the Free Cities, The Reach is the most reliable source of food for the entire continent. That's part of why the impending Euronpocalypse is so Worrying to those otherwise removed from the Oldtown plotlines: Oldtown is one of the most important ports of Westeros, exporting grain from the Reach & importing goods from Essos.

Oldtown is also the Headquarters for the Citadel, where maesters are trained to: manage rookeries, the interkingdom communication system; learn histories, including those of long Winters past & who survived to give tips on Resource Management; and study medicine (to varying degrees of competency but Still).

The maesters are imperfect, often outright incompetent (as much by accident as by any potential Conspiracy): they're still the ones in control of the [telegram] network, the meteorologists, the ones able to not only access the historic archives but how to read them & any knowledge therein. It is certainly more helpful to have scholars than to not have scholars, especially with Winter nearing and many surviving Lordlings having known only Summer (& never educated on "How To Lord" due to how far down the line of succession they were before the Wars).

For those in Westeros who hold to the Faith of the Seven, Trouble At Oldtown would be an apocalypse all of its own: Oldtown is the centre of their Faith and its destruction would greatly demoralize persons of all stations, especially with increased Magical Activity and rumours of [fire zombies, ice zombies, wolf zombies, dragons].

Team Aegon seems the most likely to "contain" the Euronpocalypse, having both method (naval power) & means (the Golden Company, 4 kingdoms' worth of vassal lords) to do so. Aegon's also one of the few "primary" characters who would even know that there IS a Euronpocalpse: Team Aegon, Prince Doran, Queen Cersei, Lady Olenna, Lord Manderly, Asha's faction of Ironborn, the Reacherlords, the Iron Bank, & (probably?) Brynden Rivers are the only ones who could plausibly know of a Euron Threat, let alone organize a Timely Response to it. Regardless of how successful said Response may be, Team Aegon helping with Oldtown smooths the way for his becoming recognised as a Legitimate Leader for Westeros.

I'm fairly certain that Team Aegon will conquer (most of) Westeros over the course of Winds, I doubt he'll have the time to be crowned King or even spend time on a throne: he'll be too busy.

Aegon's Conquest being successful is Pretty Dang Important to the greater scheme of things: it will introduce Key Characters to each other (Arianne & Dorne, Sam & thus the NW, "Alayne" through Baelish, Team Oathkeeper through Jaime's controlling the Crown's armies); restore supply routes; "consolidate" power to enable discussion of Continental Threats long neglected (through both Regional & Interpersonal Conflicts). Aegon's Conquest would act as a kind of "triage" for Westeros, a quick means of uniting different groups (for & against him) and he won't actually need to sit the Iron Throne to do it. It is most likely that, after securing the Reach & Stormlands, Aegon will find that the Frey Civil War had "taken care of" the North & the Riverlands, with Robb Loyalists willing to Play Nice but (understandably, thinketh Aegon) wary of bending any knees. Dorne, regardless of Prince Doran's personal opinion on Aegon's identity, would act "compliant" due to Arianne's involvement & the Rocky Dornish having been in Cahoots with the Blackfyre Regime from the get go. Even a false Aegon would be preferable to a Lannister, as far as the North & Dorne are concerned. The Ironborn post-Euronpocalypse would go back to battling themselves internally, likely while facing heavy [sanctions]: they'd be too busy licking their wounds to be much of a threat to anyone.

That leaves three kingdoms: the Westerlands, cornered at all sides & bereft of much of its Leadership through Wars & the Frey Civil War; the Crownlands, King's Landing likely being besieged for Cersei to later blow up; and The Vale.

Who runs the Vale? The worst, most consistently dangerous backstabber of them all: Lord Petyr Baelish. It will probably be Baelish who undoes all that triage work Team Aegon started, likely via assassinating the kid or "exposing" him to the Right Wrong Crowd (whether Petyr has actual knowledge or evidence against Aegon is irrelevant: this is not his first Smear Campaign).

Assuming it hasn't happened already (in great tonal dissonance with the Euronpocalypse), Little Lord Robert Arryn would get his Tourney at the Gates of the Moon just in time for Aegon to secure his "final" kingdom.

The Frey Civil War would have affected the Vale just as it affected the rest of Westeros (Dorne excluded) but, from the clues I've found in the Vale & Darry-branches of Freys, it's likely that the Vale Freys will have fared better than every other branch of their extensive family tree, likely due to their joining the Aegon Bandwagon prior to Lord Walder's death.

Others have drawn parallels between what we know of "Alayne's'" Tourney and the historic Tourney of Ashford Meadow: essentially, the Tourney is implicitly tied to the themes & character arcs of both Sansa Stark (in the role of "Lord Ashford's 13 year old daughter", defending Queen of Love & Beauty) and Brienne of Tarth (in the role of her ancestor, Duncan the Tall: knightly but never technically Knighted underdog). The Ashford Tourney is best remembered for being the Introduction of Ser Duncan the Tall, a Sudden Trial of Seven, a quietly averted Blackfyre Rebellion, and the tragic death of the greatly beloved Crown Prince Baelon "Breakspear" (& Some Guy from House Hardyng).

Yeah. Dany doesn't even need to leave Essos: Aegon's doom will come courtesy of Thematic Parallels and Foreshadowing.

Prince Baelon "Breakspear" was a living representation of a Westeros at peace: he was the product of one of two political marriages that peacibly joined Dorne to the Seven Kingdoms (the Second Marriage featured one of those Princesses Daenerys); he was a Competent ruler, becoming his Father's Hand at age 26; his nickname was gained when he bested Ser Daemon Blackfyre (yes, THAT Blackfyre) at a tourney (the Wedding Tourney of his Aunt Daenerys); he had two adult sons, presumably with a wife (the sons are the only proof of her existence); and one of Baelon's sons was healthy enough to score 7 victories at the Ashford Tourney!

Which he. Uh. Very unexpectedly died at. Baelon, that is. The Crown Prince. The People's Prince. The Golden Child who promised a Peaceful & Prosperous Future. The son of a Targaryen prince & a Martell mother. A character who Very Strongly Reminds One Of Young Griff, the hopeful Aegon VI.

Aegon is likely to attend the Vale Tourney in order to diplomatically add the Vale to his collection of Kingdoms: Baelish is likely to trade [Sansa]'s betrothal with Harry the Heir for the Shinier Prince Aegon (whether he dissolves the existing betrothal via Having Harry Killed By Tourney or by outing Alayne as Sansa "Key to the North" Stark-Lannister, who was, btw, Spared the marriage bed bc Child Bride so Totally Eligible my dude just Sign Here).

Then Brienne will show up, probably with Jaime, and Some Kerfuffle will Ensue (if only because Sansa & Brienne are Alleged Kingslayers) that leads to Robert Arryn's Tourney becoming Brienne's Trial of Seven for Sansa's Innocence, just as Ser Dunk's defense of the (common) maiden Tanselle so changed the Ashford Tourney.

There is a Rather Formidable enemy of Young Griff whom I have only hinted at: allow me to combine the Clues.

There exists in the ASOIAF series a Certain Character who Knows More than they Should, who has an implied past connection with a young Euron Greyjoy, who is infamously opposed to Blackfyres, who was present for the Ashford Tourney, whose Past & Present can connect just about every active plotline in the series: a disappeared Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, a Hand to two Targaryen Kings & the Master of Whispers to more (with his "thousand eyes and one"), one of the three Great Bastards born to Lady Melissa Blackwood by King Aegon IV, and current tree-wizard mentor to an entirely separate Kingly-coded character.

Brynden Rivers.

If Aegon survives Euron, Cersei, Jaime, AND Baelish? He certainly won't survive Brynden. Whatever Brynden may be right now (tree abomination, Old God Hivemind, puppet king to Feyfolk, Bran Stark's lunch, the distant Blackwood cousin of every surviving Stark), there is no reason to believe Brynden would allow a Blackfyre to go unchallenged, especially in the guise of a "true" Targaryen.

(not that i believe Brynden hopes for a Targaryen Restoration via Dany or Jon: it very much appears that Brynden & the Singers are grooming Bran Stark for kingship, though where & who exactly they expect him to rule is still Unclear)

I hope to do more exploration into what Aegon [Blackfyre]'s Conquest might look like, cobbling together clues from Quentyn's Doomed Quest and Queen Marge's Court (as "microcosm' to the Reach in macrocosm) and historically Targaryen/Blackfyre loyalist Houses. I'm fairly certain I can figure out how the Aegon Conquest will play into the resolutions of the Frey Civil War, (some) Winterfell Conspiracies, the specifics of the Euronpocalypse, & my "Dornish Spring" Theory as well. I'm much less certain on how Stannis would fare against Aegon: would he demand Legitimacy? would he sic Melissandre on him? would Stannis Get Over Himself in service to the Looming Winter? would he even have a leg to stand on the matter?

And would Aegon survive long enough to meet Daenerys, let alone Argue Legitimacy with her? (They'd both be rulers by conquest, not inheritance & it's not like Dany has any backing for her identity beyond "I look traditionally Valyrian" and "these are some dragons i hatched from stone mid-resurrection". The layyer it should be noted, is considered a Death Magic-induced Miracle, not some Secret Targaryen Blood Limit: it's Unique to Daenerys Stormborn, not to "House Targaryen")

[agentrouka-blog]

To be clear, I believe in a Jon and Sansa endgame. However, I thought about Ashford Tourney and realized that Valarr Targaryen's father, Baelor Breakspear, has a Martell mother and Targaryen father, just like Aegon. Even if he's a fake, doesn't this give more credit to Aegon than Jon as the "Targaryen suitor"? Thanks!

Except Aegon has no plausible connecting point to Sansa’s arc, nor she to his. He is part of the Dorne storyline, Elia’s son and most certainly real.

While Jon is right there in the North where Sansa is headed, dreaming the same dreams and - wouldn’t you know - sporting a secret Targaryen father.

Noble Baelor of the emphasized Dornish connections (mother AND wife), meanwhile, was never a champion for the young Ashford lady at all. He fought in a different match, the trial by seven to defend Duncan the Tall, which was heavily characterized by inter-family conflict: Fossoway v. Fossoway, Targaryen v. Targaryen. He died at a family member’s hand. If you are looking for Aegon’s fate, I think you are on the right track. 

[rosalinesurvived]

Hey

So I was reading about the Ashford Theory and I do believe that its Jonsa, but what if it's actually Young Griff?

I can't be bothered with all the politics and geography, all I'm here for is Sansa meeting Aegon and then the comedic show of Varys, JonCon, Tyrion and Littlefinger politely smiling at each other and backstabbing each other and trying not to kill each other like some sort of fucked up divorce custody case.

[leulah]

back to me being annoying on main but i was perusing r/asoiaf and came across posts about the ashford tourney theory and there were So Many people in the comments saying it was actually a s*nsan theory and it can’t be taken a different way (either f!aegon or jon). like i respect the creator of the theory so much as an asoiaf fan but also at the same time they do not own a theory. the way most theories work is that someone discovers some sort of similarity and then other people expand upon it.

like you can’t police how people interpret a theory and say “well the creator said this so you can’t say it means such and such” like yea… you can. they’re not grrm and fandoms are a collaborative space

[hellsbellschime]

The Ashford theory is very interesting and I go back on forth on who the final Targ suitor may be. On one hand, a lot of people who think it will be Jon use the fact that Valarr is dark-haired as 'proof' lol but WHY is he dark haired? Because he's a half-Dornish, half-Targ prince which points towards Aegon. I could see a match between Aegon and Sansa being suggested so he has the backing of the North/Vale, I don't think any marriage will actually occur, but it doesn't need to in order to fulfill the theory. But I could also see a match being suggested between Jon and Sansa to consolidate the North and the Vale and both their claims to the North - politically it actually makes a lot of sense. However, I think this would be predicated on RLJ became public knowledge and I just don't think it ever will be in the series (that will never be published but anyway! lol).

Yeah I tend to be team Aegon just because I don't think Sansa will marry any Ashford suitor (or anyone really, at least in the timespan of the book story) and because Sansa is an incredibly good option for Aegon/she would have considerable leverage if she were trying to make a deal with Young Griff and his squad because she has considerable clout with two rebellious kingdoms that make up more than half the country.

[pinchofhoney]

perfectly flawed

benedict bridgerton x princess!reader

word count: 2.7k

warning: hurt without comfort, it might be suggestive but there's nothing inappropriate about it (friends with benefits but without any details)

summary: Finding love as a princess comes with its challenges, but becoming a mistress was never part of the plan.

a/n: two things; one, over these few months i forgot what it's like to write something that isn't an academic paper. two, in the process of writing it i forgot that i was supposed to write it based on a song. i suppose i'm already a different person than i was just the week ago when i asked you for your opinion, but regardless, feel welcome to read this,, thing<33

pages that may interest you: masterlist ♡ taglist ♡ who i write for

Lady Whistledown’s Society Papers

London, 18th April 1814

Dearest Readers,

The Season has barely begun, yet the glittering ballrooms of London are already abuzz with whispers and speculation. The cause of this fervour? None other than the captivating niece of Her Majesty. The fairy-like young lady, whose arrival in London coincided with the Season’s beginning, has ignited a flurry of theories.

Is she a princess, a countess, or perhaps a secret agent on a mission? The whispers echo through the salons, each speculation more imaginative than the last. Her regal bearing and the way she holds her fan hint at noble lineage, but her eyes hold secrets that defy easy classification. Could she be a pawn in a political game, or does her purpose lie closer to matters of the heart? Suitors line up, eager to claim her hand, but our debutante remains an unknown figure, casting doubt upon the intentions behind her smile.

Gentlemen of distinction have flocked to her side, vying for her attention. Lord Pembroke, the dashing heir to a vast estate, has been seen trailing her like a devoted puppy. The Duke of Ashford, brooding and aloof, has deigned to engage her in conversation. And then there is Captain Sinclair, whose sea-green eyes promise both danger and adventure.

At Lady Featherington's soirée, our young lady engaged in spirited conversation with none other than Miss Eloise Bridgerton. Their conversation delved into matters of politics—a most unconventional choice. Is our French princess a revolutionary sympathizer, or does she simply relish the thrill of intellectual sparring?

Rest assured, dear readers, that Lady Whistledown shall be your faithful guide through the twists and turns of this unfolding narrative. Prepare your fans and polish your silver spoons, for the London Season has just begun, and in the shadow of the Queen's niece, our world is poised to be turned upside down. Society must brace itself for a whirlwind of speculation, as we stand on the brink of a most intriguing chapter.

Yours Truly,

Lady Whistledown

‎

At the very core of the French Empire, you were raised as the epitome of grace and subtlety. With royal blood coursing through your veins, you were groomed to be the perfect lady, the jewel of the imperial court. Every step you took, every word you said, was a careful composition, painting the portrait of an eminent lineage.

From a young age, you were taught the art of etiquette, your days filled with lessons on poise, embroidery, and the subtle language of the fan. Your attire, always impeccable, was the evidence of your status and breeding. The world perceived you as the embodiment of perfection, a delicate blossom requiring protection from the harsh realities beyond the palace walls.

Yet, behind the facade of the devoted princess, a secreted truth blossomed. Beneath the tangled layers of silk and lace, your spirit, unyielding and untamed, stood in defiance of the expectations of courtly life. The allure of royal grandeur held little sway over you, and the burden of societal obligations felt like a daily donning of a suffocating corset.

The shimmering balls and elaborate rituals became stifling, making your heart to ache for those fleeting moments of genuine connection, uncontrolled laughter, and a subtle taste of the forbidden. Although French suitors eagerly fought for your attention and the allure of your family's wealth, your soul yearned for a partner who would daringly challenge the scripted norms, infusing romance with a breath of spontaneous authenticity.

And thus, to address your reluctance to accept the prearranged path, your mother came up with a plan. Sending you to the splendour of London under the watchful eye of the Queen, your beloved aunt, she hoped this change of scenery would guide you towards a dutiful marriage, in line with the expectations befitting your royal lineage. What slipped out of her seemingly perfect idea, however, was the playful nature of fate, particularly when guided by those who avoid predictability. So, your journey to the bustling heart of British metropolis grew with an outcome greatly different from your mother's expectations.

Your aunt, holding the most esteemed position in the United Kingdom, was admired for her wisdom and understanding. But the hours of lessons imparted to you from an early age, combined with your ability to conceal your rebellious nature from the public eye, had transformed you into a pretty great actress. And your performance, crafted over the years, was so convincing that even someone as sharp as the Queen herself failed to see through the carefully constructed act.

But perhaps, this time, you've got too close to the edge, because in the blink of an eye, you found yourself entangled in a situation that, if exposed, would not only scandalize all of England but also cast a shadow over France, where your family hopefully awaited news of your impending marriage.

And how did it all start?

The beginning of your tale remains in the memories of that fateful debutante ball, where a single innocent look changed the course of your luck. It was a brief moment, a shared exchange of glimpse between you and Benedict Bridgerton, that seemed to stretch time itself. In the glimmer of that ballroom, his bright eyes locked onto yours from across the room, and the world around you seemed to slow, as if giving space for something beyond a mere glance.

You had no idea what captivated you about the man who didn't really stand out among the other attendees, but most likely it was this quiet strength of his gaze. The gaze without the typical fascination you'd grown used to as a princess of the French Empire or the usual envy that flickered in the eyes of those desperate to secure a partner who determined their life's worth. Benedict's gaze was just different. It held no trace of the thought that you were merely a silly princess with a title. It carried the feeling that you were a masterpiece, a creation worthy of admiration. And it stirred a yearning within you, an insatiable thirst for freedom and authenticity that your heart had craved for so long.

A brief exchange of words with Benedict at the ball opened your eyes, making you believe that not every man who sought your company was doing so only for your family's wealth. As you danced together, his touch ignited a spark, a fleeting moment of intimacy that lingered long after the music faded into the night, and each stolen glance exchanged across the crowded ballroom carried the weight of unspoken desires. It felt as though the connection that binds soulmates was about to disappear when your paths crossed, signalling that you had, finally, found one another.

And so, it began. A secret affair that grew under the cloak of darkness, far from the prying eyes of nosy socialites waiting to catch a glimpse of scandal. In the hidden corners of London, where shadows whispered secrets and the night sky painted a canvas of stars, you found comfort in the arms of Benedict, a man not necessarily burdened by the weight of societal expectations, yet bound by his own hesitation to commit to anything beyond the present moment.

As the inappropriate meetings became routine, you assumed the role of a mistress, a position you never imagined yourself in, and the only rule you committed to follow during your secret dates was the lack of romantic feelings. Yet, despite your best efforts to maintain a facade of emotional distance, your heart had a way of defying logic. With each stolen moment spent in Benedict's company, you found yourself drawn deeper into the labyrinth of emotions, a labyrinth fraught with longing and desire. What started as a simple agreement, devoid of romantic sentiments, soon evolved into something far more sincere.

And it genuinely scared you.

You walked nervously around the place of your every rendezvous with Benedict, your fingers nervously picking the cuticles near your nail—a gesture unsuitable for the lady you were expected to be. But in the fuss of events that have happened in London so far, such a thing seemed a minor violation. Not only did the task of slipping unnoticed from the royal palace grew increasingly difficult, but the relentless fluttering in your heart at the mere thought of Bridgerton haunted your sleepless nights.

Throughout your life, you had yearned for a love different from the one you had observed in French society. And now, when the opportunity to live your fairy tale presented itself, reality proved to be just an unrequited feeling. While you were happy to see Benedict and yearned for his presence, it seemed he may only crave your body, not the depths of your soul.

You wanted today's meeting to be the last one, a meeting where nothing would happen. Or so you convinced yourself. The purpose was clear: to say goodbye to Benedict and to draw the curtain on a relationship built on fleeting glances and secret meetings. And even though probably the best choice would have been to just stop showing up on these encounters and withdrawing from public spaces where you might cross paths, you didn't want to just pretend that nothing had ever happened between you two. The social season was still around you, and avoiding the consequences of your actions would only complicate everything. Maybe not for Benedict, but for you, for sure.

And then, the silence broken every second by your anxious heartbeat was completely shattered by the sound of footsteps. Turning, you were met with the sight of Benedict Bridgerton approaching with firm strides, and his presence seemed to overshadow your plans to say goodbye when, for a moment, the world seemed to pause as you lost yourself in the intensity of his gaze.

Without a word, he wrapped his arms around your waist, and his touch sent pleasant shivers down your spine. The warmth of his embrace, coupled with the subtle brush of his breath against your skin, stirred conflicting emotions within you. Your heart quickened its pace, betraying the reason you came for this final meeting.

“I've been thinking about you all day,” Benedict whispered, and his breath caressed your delicate skin. But as much as the desire for intimacy flickered within, you held steadfast to the resolution you had set for this meeting.

With a gentle pull, you extricated yourself from his embrace, creating a safe distance between the two of you. The tingling sensation stayed on your skin, as a remaining echo of his touch that resonated through every fibre of your being. “We need to talk,” you said, your voice steadier than your racing heart. Benedict's eyes, once filled with a yearning, now searched yours for an answer to an as yet unspoken question.

“Talk?” he asked, his voice laced with a hint of playful intrigue as he arched one of his eyebrows with his signature smile dancing upon his lips. “About what?” he pressed, and with an air of casual confidence, he crossed his arms over his chest as he ambled a few steps to the side. “You're not going to tell me you've fallen in love, are you, princess?”

A nervous laugh bubbled up from within, escaping between your lips before you could hold it back. In an attempt to mirror Benedict's movements, you crossed your arms over your chest, your head shaking with feigned amusement. “Fall in love?” you repeated his words, adopting a tone of playful dismissal. “Don't be ridiculous, of course not,” you declared, adding a scoff at the end, as if to fortify the illusion of light-hearted banter. Hoping to shield your true feelings, now concealed beneath a facade of amusement, you met Benedict's gaze with a look of mock disbelief.

“We should end this relationship,” the words spilled from your lips, hoping your voice wouldn't betray how fast your heart was beating at that moment. “I did not come to London to become just another woman in the arms of the Viscount's son. If my mother were to find out, she'd blame herself for raising me poorly, and that's not the truth,” you began to rationalize, your words flowing as an attempt to justify the decision you had set before both of you. “I have obligations to fulfil, a path to follow, and I won't achieve that by sleeping with you.”

Benedict watched you in silence, not knowing if you were serious. His gaze bore into you, seeking answers within the depths of your eyes.

“Now you're the one being ridiculous,” he retorted, his tone carrying a gentle scolding. Leaning against a nearby counter, he looked at you with a combination of disbelief. “Since when have you cared so deeply about living up to your mother's expectations?”

“I've come to understand that my mother wants what she believes is best for me. As a princess of the French Empire, there are certain expectations I must meet, whether I appreciate them or not,” you said, closing the physical distance between yourself and Benedict. Self-control was what kept your hands from reaching out as you stopped just in front of him. “Think about what would happen if our secret were to be exposed. It would be the end for both of us, and the scandal would echo across the entire continent. The Queen herself would likely seek our demise.” You emphasized your words by pointing a finger at yourself. “I cannot ruin the honour of the entire royal family for a fleeting moment of pleasure.”

Benedict met your gaze with a silent acknowledgment of the truth in your words, yet beneath the veneer of understanding, a flicker of defiance danced in his eyes. “So, what are you saying? You're suddenly prepared to sacrifice your entire life for the expectations of your family that would see you married and bearing children with some man who would likely make you miserable?” he asked, a trace of frustration evident in his voice.

A moment of silence ensued as you fixed your gaze on Benedict. Finally, a disbelieving scoff escaped your lips, and you shook your head. Taking a few steps away, you placed your hands on your hips, a gesture mirroring the internal conflict within you. “Perhaps you haven't noticed yet, Benedict, but I am a woman. And in a world dictated by the whims of men, the role assigned to women is often reduced to that of an obedient wife, tasked with bringing some affluent man's heir into the world. It's not about what I want; it's about what everyone else around me expects.”

As Benedict made a move to step closer, a surge of urgency propelled you to speak before he could interject. “I should be going now. The palace servants are growing increasingly suspicious.”

Despite the assertiveness in your tone, Benedict, keen to the nuances of unspoken emotions, closed the physical gap between you, and his touch went through the delicate fabric of your glove as he gently took your hand. “We can at least end this in a better way,” he suggested, his voice tinged with a suggestive undertone as he met your gaze.

A resolute “No” escaped your lips, infused with an overt firmness born out of the fear that another moment in his gaze might make you give in to your heart's desires. You couldn't afford the risk of surrendering to the tempting pull of his lips once again, the very lips you yearned for. “That's all I wanted to tell you today,” you continued, gently squeezing his hand as if to punctuate your resolve. Purposefully avoiding his gaze, you added, “It's over, but know that every meeting with you has been a pleasure, Mr. Bridgerton. Goodbye.” Articulated so, you withdrew your hand from Benedict's grasp, leaving only the delicate glove in his hold.

With a swift spin, you turned away and your hurried footsteps carrying you out into the rain-soaked streets of London. A quick glance confirmed the absence of prying eyes, making you hasten your pace, putting distance between yourself and the building that housed your shattered heart. As you took each step, the words exchanged at that moment of parting reverberated in your mind. The relation between you and Benedict had ignited sparks of passion and left a sweet ache of longing. Now, the path ahead led you towards the marriage your family desired, a hopeful step to fill the void left by thoughts of Bridgerton.

[catofoldstones]

Actually my main idea if j0nsa does happen would be that it would be a reversal of the first “Baratheon” betrothal but also a reversal of jonnel and sansa , instead of taking her inheritance I truly think Jon would abandon his succession to honor his loyalties and his whole guilt thing about wanting winterfell and battling his feelings on the wildlings and bastardy especially with his ending on the show idk I feel like it would make a lot more sense than just jonnel/Sansa’s reference being put there for no reason

!!!!!!!!!!!

That fits so well with not only Jon’s character but also the plot progression! A Jon and Sansa match where Jon doesn’t encroach upon Sansa’s rights but also Sansa actively falling in love with Jon in continuance of her arc of gaining independence!!! And, and, and Jon not only as a foil to to the Baratheon suitor but also to the ancestor Jonnel, my heart is singing right now anon, bless you

[atopvisenyashill]

Asking this because I (for some reason) have yet to see a theory stating this (even though it must exist!) but waht do you think the changes are of Brienne being the person who gets Alaynes favor and her potentially competing on Sansa's behalf in a trial for the kinslaying allegations? Obviously Brienne and Sansa even meeting is hotly debated but with the direction the show went in I can't see Briensa (platonic) not happening!

First I'm assuming you meant kingslaying because I was like wait how did I forget Sansa being accused of killing one of her siblings omg?? alsdjf unless you mean "kinslaying allegations" ie she betrayed Ned in which case, if that does come up (it's certainly possible) it's not likely to come up until waaaay later because the only person who would care is like, Arya, really, (I think both Jon and Bran would understand Sansa's actions here) and I don't think it will escalate to Brienne having to fight a trial by combat for her in that case.

BUT.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING THEORY. I think the general consensus here is that they're going to meet somehow at the tourney and escape it together, and also, Shadrich will be involved and probably Bronze Yohn as well, but that's pretty much as concrete as I've seen anyone get (altho if anyone does have a more concrete theory, let me know!!!).

So firstly, I think this would match up with the Ashford Tourney Theory very well -> Sansa having all the same suitors, only for the tourney to get upended by a trial by the seven/the appearance of The Truest Knight In All Of Westeros. Brienne, being both a True Knight and a descendant of Dunk, makes the most sense for being part of the foreshadowing of this theory in my opinion. And that little note we got of GRRM's outline included that line "kill the mouse" which points to Shadrich being a problem for Sansa or Brienne or both in the coming twow chapters. However...some random hedge knight can't just make off with either Sansa Stark, Last Surviving Stark or Alayne Stone, Only Child Of Lord Protector Baelish, without causing a HUGE ruckus (look at her escape from KL - they needed a huge ruckus to cover up their movements!). SO. Considering he showed up with a bunch of other guys...maybe Shadrich and several others looking for Sansa accuse of her being a kingslayer and say they are arresting her and taking her back to King's Landing to face the king's justice. And just like Tyrion got free by having Bronn defeat someone, perhaps Brienne, who enters in the lists in the hopes of getting close to Sansa as a mystery knight, steps up to call for a trial by the seven. That would be a parallel to Dunk as well!

And in the chaotic aftermath, when Brienne (and Bronze Yohn maybe!!) has cleared Sansa's name, something goes awry (maybe Harry dies fighting in the trial, maybe Sweetrobin dies and Sansa tells Brienne she doesn't want to marry Harry), the girls decide to make a run for the Wall, to the only other known relative Sansa has left alive outside of the Tullys - her recently revived bastard brother Jon Snow.

As for gaining her favor...while I'm fairly confident that Brienne saves Sansa and they leave together from the Vale, the state in which Brienne shows up is really up in the air. She's just leaving from whatever the fuck has happened with Lady Stoneheart and Jaime. Maybe she's injured. Maybe she has no money. Maybe she sees Ser Shadrich there and decides she's better off disguised. It could make sense that she enters the tourney in an attempt to see if she can find Sansa in the crowd, spots her, and asks her for her favor. Cue Shadrich accusal, trial by seven, and escape.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting prediction anon, I'd love to hear what other people think.

[esther-dot]

Oh, I can't help myself, but regarding the Ashford tourney theory again, dismissing it as crack or saying there's no winner is not even how I'd advance a non-Jonsa reading.

The more pertinent question is thematically, in that why do men have to win Sansa's hand? Do we want to break that cycle? Is that where we get a conceivable Sansa/Sandor theory? How do we get positive resolution breaking out of 'the cycle'--- the door is left open narratively because the tourney was left unfinished. It's not about what counts as foreshadowing and what doesn't: the question you have to ask is how does it service the story and its ideas.

Romans and countrymen, come on. I can't be writing the anti-Jonsa analysis; I'm one of them!

(prev)

I’m sure they’ll take you up on your advice! 😂

I didn’t actually read through all their posts about the topic, I just wanted to illustrate a point, but it occurs to me if we’re talking a Stark girl, suitors, and tourneys, excluding Targs from the scenario is a little odd.

ANYWAY, you’re right that we have to think of things in context, and I do think the idea of Sansa being able to choose who she marries would be a great development because of the pre canon events, Sansa’s own experiences, the way many women have suffered because of their fathers’ arranging their marriages etc. But then we have to ask:

is it a believable development in their world for that to happen

is that specific match remotely feasible class-wise

would a marriage to someone who insults, threatens to murder, and sexual assaults her be any kind of answer to those unhappy arranged marriages?

does Sansa even like this person?

If the idea is that Sansa needs to leave her silly notions behind her, maybe she would marry one of the existing options or end up in a practical post canon marriage. However, if we are meant to understand that Sansa isn’t the problem and that thus far she’s simply been dealing with people unworthy of her and that there are heroes and someone does love her, suddenly, her potential romance is not just about shipping, it is about which values Martin wants to celebrate, what he wants us to believe in, and that I think is why it would matter to the story and probably function as a necessary balance to everything else that will be happening in the last two novels.

[babybells123]

I’ll never get over this - what an insanely cryptic statement to make . It’s also interesting that GRRM will give long rambling answers about other ships (as he tends to do in interviews and asks) but this is his response here. Short and sweet but ambiguous and entirely up to one’s interpretation - essentially think about what you’ve read.

And then it had me thinking…

To imply that George isn’t a careful writer and doesn’t put immensely intricate thought into every sentence he writes is entirely reductive to him as a writer. Especially if you claim to be a fan of said writing (you’d have to be apart of this fandom). This is the man who has taken 13 years to write TWOW, who consistently writes, scraps, and rewrites chapters if he dislikes them or they don’t fit what he’s envisioned.

And with a fandom that has discussed, debated and analysed every possible theory - providing some well-thought out essays onto the internet, consistently stating that nothing is ever a coincidence with George before delving into a lengthy analysis - it has me wondering why said theorists and ‘very intelligent’ contingents of fans will be grasping, bursting blood vessels, losing their mind and their sanity in the process just to disprove a possible match between J/S.

Now as an example that I’ve come across just yesterday on the infamous r/asoiaf - When S*nsan is brought into the conversation, it’s absolutely accepted as a plausible theory due to *checks notes* people devoting time to and picking apart evidence and to the wider fandom either not dismissing it or remaining neutral about it. (I mean, the redditor I was made privy to yesterday just disproved the Ashford tourney theory and it’s connection to Jon on the basis that it was made by a s*nsan shipper - wow !! Thanks :)) I never knew , finally my rose tinted glasses have been removed and I can bow down to you, oh wise redditor … these J words are CRAZY delusionals indeed!!

This is just one example among the many of the possible future romances that are debated endlessly on the various social media platforms , and all said ships - whether they’ve met or interacted or are very close or whatever require analysis . Deep deep analysis. Picking apart sentences, imagery, chapter ordering, literary references you name it . We all become literature students, and every ship is privy to it and hey ! More power to them - we’re all just having fun here theorising about all the possibilities for a book/s that has not yet been released.

So it begs the question , and bear with me here - I know I’ve been talking quite a lot about people opposed to and entirely dismissive of my ship - but yesterdays’ conundrum had me thinking about generalised fandom receptiveness.

See, normal fans (normal people) when presented with a theory that they genuinely believe to be so absurd/dislike/are entirely opposed to , would simply block the user, filter the content, and move on with their lives. A far happier solution, it means you’re not worked into a frenzy over something you’re aware you don’t like. Yay! Everyone’s happy! But…..

People must be debby-downers and ruin the fun , turning into genuine clouds of negativity, invading tags in which they don’t belong, creating anti blogs, writing lengthy essays disproving it all - yep, we’ve seen it, and we just ignore it as best we can.

But it gets to a point where it’s just frustrating. Because this is all so painfully hypocritical. If said intelligent fandom can provide 3 hour video essays, 50,000 word essays and reddit debates of threads with 100+ replies based on the notion of tyrion being a targaryen, or j*nrya is actually canon or the blue rose is metaphor for a future romance whatever theory that’s been put into the world - why - gods why does the entire fandom jump on the bandwagon of hating/dismissing Jonsa as soon as it’s brought up as a theory??

When we are just doing what everyone else has been doing vigorously for the last 13 years - theorising, analysing, debating like we’re literature students (and I’m a lit major, so it does feel this way). And whilst we quietly engage with and make our content, we’re ridiculed, picked apart, and vilified elsewhere for being awfully stupid people - because ….why?? Oh yes, that’s right - it is not a valid plausible theory at all, we just ship it because we self insert as sansa and jon is a heroic figure or the even sillier assumption - because Kit and Sophie are attractive people (which indeed they are, but most theories stem from the books, lmao.)

Sooo, essentially jonsas aren’t allowed into the club because …. (Well I’m actually still wondering why), because every other popular ship theory is either incestuous or involves a child being shipped with a grown person.) so Jonsa is obviously the latter, but that’s not the reason that the general fandom (J*nerys and to an extent, J*nrya) dislike them because those too - are incestuous.

If you’re an individual who is uncomfortable with all incest ships period . Then I respect that since I understand it. What I don’t understand, as seen through reddit and what I was made privy to yesterday, - were the multitude of disprovers fine with J*nerys and J*nrya and S*nsan but god forbid someone brings up Jonsa because then it’s a crackship - except all those other ships I mentioned are valid because people have analysed and theorised and written metas etc etc etc and Jonsa’s are just plain silly crackshippers.

I really have to wonder about fandom mentality, because it’s making less and less sense to me ….

Anyway George you ARE a sly one and I’ll always giggle when I come across that image.