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onefleshonepod · 2 years

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Strange Names in Nona the Ninth

Nona’s gang of kids, plus the Angel, all appear to have weird names because they are Nona’s transliterations of their names in their native languages into the language of the Nine Houses.

Hot Sauce nodded. Nona guessed again, “Born in the Morning.” “You mean Born in the Morning,” said Hot Sauce. “That’s what I said,” said Nona.

There are seventeen local languages (according to Ianthe) on New Rho. Nona can speak all of them, without really understanding what she’s doing, so she understands the names she hears and the meaning of these names to be synonymous.

Nona understood everybody, and could speak back to them so that they understood her, and nobody ever said she had an accent. This confounded Palamedes. When she first said that she could speak back by watching them talk and making her lips look like theirs, it confounded him so much more that it gave Camilla a headache.

(I think the same thing’s going on with The Building that Troia cell lives in; I think it’s a word in another language that means building and is used as an official name for the building, but I have no guesses as to what that could be.)

I believe Nona is able to do this both because she is Alecto, who plays the role of the Holy Spirit in Tamsyn's Catholic Trinity 2.0, and the Holy Spirit gave the Apostles the gift of tongues during Pentecost, and because she is the soul of Earth. The languages spoken on New Rho presumably came from Earth, so of course she can speak all of them!

This is my attempt to reverse engineer all of these names into House / English.

The Angel / The Messenger

BOE calls Aim "the Messenger" and the children and Nona call her "the Angel.”

We Suffer: “Usually you both meeting up with the Messenger, whom you call the Angel, would have been very bad.”

When the Angel first appears, her name is playing on the meaning of “angel” as a caring and godly being – the reader gets that it would make sense for children who love her to see her as an angel, so this remark flies under on the radar:

The Angel was what they called the nondescript, washed-out, dusty-haired personage who came to teach the Hour of Science. Why they called her the Angel was unclear.

But it is clear why they call her The Angel! It comes from a word with two meanings: the Greek word “angelos” originally meant “messenger” and later took on the meaning of “angel” or “messenger of God,” so all names originating from this word have both of those meanings.

Names originating from “angelos” include Angela (English, Spanish), Aniela (Polish), Aingeal (Irish), Anděla (Czech), Andjela (Serbian), Angèle (French), Angiola (Italian), Anzhela (Russian), and diminutives like Angelina.

The name is intended by BOE to mean Messenger, because of her societal role, but Nona is translating the other meaning of her name, Angel, because that meaning is what makes more sense to her given the way she sees and loves the Angel.

It's also possible that BOE has a more formal version of this name as a title for the Messenger and the children's "the Angel" which Nona hears as distinct from "the Messenger" is a diminutive or less formal version of the same name.

Born in the Morning

This name could be Sabah (Arabic), Akinyi (Luo from Kenya), or Asa (Japanese), all names which mean “morning” and more specifically “born in the morning.”

Honesty

This is a bit more difficult and I’m really not sure about any of these. There are quite a few boys' names meaning “honesty.” There are even more names that mean “honest” or “truthful,” but for strictly the noun “honesty” we have these names:

Pheakdei (Khmer, from Cambodia); Satyam, Onnesha, and Sachh (Hindi); Zaka and Sadaqat (Arabic); and Onestà or Onesto (Italian).

I don’t speak any of these languages, so I can’t comment on which name is most likely, and there are probably also way more possibilities that I missed in my deep dive into 457 baby name websites and dictionary translations!

Edit: I've seen "Frank" suggested a lot as a potential name, but I don't think this is likely, because "Honesty" is a noun, and "Frank" is an adjective. I think if Tamsyn intended the name to be a transliteration of "Frank" she would have used the adjective "Honest," not the noun "Honesty " – she doesn't seem the type to overlook something like that.

Beautiful Ruby

I think this name is probably just two names, in an unknown language, one meaning “beautiful” and one meaning “ruby.”

Unfortunately, there are millions of possibilities here and I can’t find any combination that particularly jumps out. If you have more thoughts on this please let me know!

Hot Sauce

Hot Sauce, of course – as a delightful choice that only serves to confuse the reader more with respect to all of these names – is literally just named Hot Sauce. You CAN put it on rice and you CAN put it on bread!!

#nona the ninth #ntnspoilers #ntn spoilers #nona the ninth spoilers #the angel #the messenger #aim #honesty #beautiful ruby #born in the morning #hot sauce #nona #edited to fix my misconception that lemuria and new rho are the same #ours

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clonerightsagenda · 1 year

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I do not have the book on hand so I can’t check to see if there are details that immediately sink this idea, but:

As early as the release of Harrow the Ninth, there have been conspiracies that Cassiopeia faked her death. People point to her allegedly dying in the River despite being an expert in river magic, and while everyone has bad days, the fact that she created a break clause for her House does suggest she had a lot up her sleeve. BoE also refers to a Source Gram that provides them with intel about the Sixth House that is several thousand years out of date. (I don’t remember how long ago Cassie died.)

In dire straits and with limited resources, Palamedes and Camilla were able to store a soul in another ensouled body and then transfer that soul to another person. They also believed there was still hope for Naberius even though he had been consumed some time ago. Cassiopeia worked extensively with Anastasia on matters of lyctorhood and soul magic. It seems unlikely she couldn’t have come to similar conclusions.

Palamedes could tell that Aim/the Messenger had been necromantically altered in some way. Aim uses they/them pronouns but ties that to their role as the messenger, leading me to believe ‘they’ is meant in the plural sense rather than the gender neutral one. There are apparently two separate parts of the message.

What I’m getting at is, is it possible that Source Gram/the two messages could be Cassiopeia and Nigella’s souls?

#it's a longshot #and I don't know how BoE would be transferring those souls down the generations #but Palamedes DID detect some kind of necromancy at work #and then why would the messengers not understand the message #unless they don't have the necromantic ability to interface with the souls I guess #nona the ninth spoilers #nona spoilers #perpetual perpetual ladies night #the locked tomb

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apixphiny · 10 months

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sophie!!

(expect more to come as they reveal more of the characters designs in the graphic novel)

#drew this because they revealed what she would look like in the graphic novel and she just doesn’t look like a child at all?#KOTLC #fanart #digital art #keeper of the lost cities #keeper of the lost cities book 2 spoilers #keeper of the lost cities book 2 #KOTLC fanart #sophie foster #shannon messenger #redraw #KOTLC graphic novel #she’s so precious to me

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the-sword-lesbian · 8 months

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Reblog to spread the brainrot

#the locked tomb shitpost #the locked tomb series #the locked tomb #nona the ninth spoilers #abigail pent #aiglamene #commander wake #we suffer #camilla hect #palamedes sextus #paul tlt #juno zeta #pyrrha dve #mercymorn the first #aim tlt #the messenger #cytherea loveday #i didn’t put Alecto as a choice because she already hates being a person let alone a ‘milf’

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racefortheironthrone · 11 months

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BOE, the Messenger(s), and the Trillionaires

Introduction

I’ve been doing a re-read of the Locked Tomb - although technically it’s a re-listen, because I like the audiobooks - and I stumbled across a particular passage that hadn’t stuck in my memory before that made me rethink my understanding of the origin of Blood of Eden. Ever since Harrow the Ninth and especially since Nona the Ninth, there’s been this common interpretation that the BOE are descendants of the trillionaires who abandoned Earth and that’s why John is at war with them. I’m not so sure that’s true any more.

Here’s why. In Nona, when the whole business with Crown/Corona infiltrating the barracks kicks off, there’s an interesting exchange between Camilla and We Suffer about the Oversight Committee that includes this statement:

“Hect, what you must understand about Blood of Eden is that we own things in common, we share responsibilities and resources in common. She could have moved these resources at will...but I must make one move at a time. And above all, I must place the safety of...Blood of Eden’s continuity...even above the mission.” (Emphasis mine.)

This took me aback somewhat, because the emphasis on militant communal ownership doesn’t really fit with the idea of “descendants of trillionaires.” I suppose one could say that it’s been ten thousand years, cultures change and drift over time...except that, as I’ll get into later, the BOE seems very very insistent on cultural preservation, so it would be a bit out-of-character if they changed that stance on this one particular issue.

And that’s what made me think: what if the BOE aren’t the descendants of the trillionaires? What if they’re the descendants of the non-trillionaires on the FTL ships?

East of Eden: A Theory About What Happened After the FTL Ships Jumped

So here’s the question that’s been percolating in my mind: once you’re out in space, why keep listening to the trillionaires, especially about the vital question of who owns the precious resources brought from Eden and who gets to decide happens next? There would probably be some residual cultural deference to the visionary disruptors, but the traditional answers of property law backed up by the state or men with guns paid to enforce the orders of the capitalists kind of break down when you consider that:

In John’s chapters (and verses) in Nona, we get an account of what happened leading up to and during the Resurrection: according to John, the trillionaires pulled a con job on the planet with their FTL ships, pretending that a fleet of twelve ships, each carrying a few thousand people (made up of “hand-picked guys” and “two hundred nominated people”), was merely the first wave of a planetary evacuation. As Mercymorn and others worked out, there were no future waves, no plan to come back and pick up more, the trillionaires had liquidated their cash and financial assets in favor of buying up material resources they’d need in space, and everyone else was being left for dead.

These twelve ships (possibly minus one, it’s not clear whether John managed to destroy the one he grabbed before it jumped) and the 20-odd thousand people on them must be the ancestors of exo-humanity as it exists in the myriadic year. But we know that of those 20-odd thousand people, only a “half-dozen” were the trillionaires. Everyone else was staff they’d selected to do the work of planetary colonization, plus a tiny group of people chosen by the governments of Earth Eden.

other than 200 randos who are likely to be recruited from the ranks of elected officials and upper management bureaucracy rather than Special Forces, the forces of the state are not only light-years away but also just got eaten by John Gaius.

it’s a bit harder to pull off the Jay Gould method when you’ve turned all of your cash into raw materials, there’s nowhere to spend cash in space, and it doesn’t take long for men with guns in that scenario to decide that the resources belong to them actually, because they have the guns.

While we know that some form of a market economy exists on New Rho and the other exo-planets, there doesn’t seem to be any sign of an oligarchical ruling class based on ownership of capital. Rather, we see a state of anarchy where there is no hegemonic entity but duelling centers of power. This suggests to me that the trillionaires’ power did not last very long after human settlement outside the solar system, possibly due to a (potentially bloodless) revolution in which the only surviving members of humanity just decided not to listen to six old (white) men and took their shit in order to survive.

In that scenario, I could see it being the case that the collective memory of communal ownership of property in the midst of a crisis could linger among a certain sub-population and provide the origin for this aspect of BOE’s internal culture.

So where did BOE come from?

Well, in large part it emerged as an organic response to John Gaius’ imperialist campaign against exo-humanity. As I noted elsewhere, John’s revenge against those who abandoned Earth in her hour of need is essentially a re-enactment of colonialism - the Cohort shows up with their overwhelming military might, forces the local population into subjugation with unequal treaties, imposes its language and customs, destroys the natural environment in a drive for short-term resource extraction, and then forces people into an endless cycle of being resettled on reservations over and over again - which makes a certain sick sense, in that it’s probably the worst thing that a Kiwi of Maori heritage could think of doing to their enemies.

He even goes to the extent of modelling the Cohort uniforms on 19th century British Army uniforms with the colors reversed, and coming up with his own gloss on the Christianity that was imposed on indigenous populations in the name of “civilizing” them. This campaign is only mystifying to outside observers like Augustine and Coronabeth because they don’t have the cultural context to know what John’s up to (in no small part because he’s used his necromantic powers and political position in order to suppress all knowledge of that context).

And thus, it’s not that surprising that John’s imperialism provoked anti-colonial resistance: when his Empire made contact with exo-humanity, to the extent that anyone still remembered him, it was as the horrific necromantic cult leader who murdered the ten billion and destroyed Eden, and now he’s come to finish the job in the name of collective punishment for the sins of six dead men, and by the way he’s bringing death and the defilement of the dead and the destruction of everything you’ve ever built with him. There probably have been dozens and hundreds of resistance movements - some local, some planetary, some multi-planetary - that rose up and got crushed over thousands of years.

So what makes BOE different from all other resistance movements?

The Messenger(s)

I want to go back a few thousand years and talk about what happened when the FTL ships managed to escape the solar system. While interplanetary colonization would always be an incredibly stressful experience even without a revolution, the fact that all of this was happening in the wake of John nuking Earth and killing the ten billion, then devouring the solar system, and their narrow escape from his wrothful grasp would have added an entirely different level of terror to the event - but also a new sense of responsibility.

Because - regardless of whether people on the FTL ships knew about the trillionaires’ supposed plan to abandon humanity on Earth or believed John’s accusations - they were now the sole survivors of humanity, the carriers of all culture and history. The ao3 author Griselda_Gimpel has a really good series of fics imagining the development of exo-humanity from the FTL ships onwards, and in one scene they mention the enormous sense of cultural loss that people on those ships would have felt when they realized that the internet was gone forever.

And this got me thinking: what if some nerds on those ships had that kind of profound reaction and decided to preserve as much of Earth’s heritage as possible? How would you do that with limited access to computer storage and humanity potentially scattering across multiple planets, and knowledge being lost forever with the march of time as the original settler generation died off and was replaced by new generations born outside the solar system? I think the answer is:

Oral tradition. See, one of the things that fans of the series have been talking about for a while is the implications of the myriadic duration of the Empire, what that would have done to language and culture in the Nine Houses and among BOE, how is it that people can still be speaking the same language or reading the same writing as from the time of the Resurrection, let alone remember memes and cultural references from the 21st century? This is a fair reaction from a Western perspective - after all, ten thousand years ago would be roughly 8000 BCE or smack dab in the Early Neolithic. Surely it would have been impossible for the memory of Earth to have survived that long.

But, as people have said, Tamsyn Muir is writing a very Kiwi series. And one of the things that is very distinctive about the culture of Aotearoa is the oral traditions of the Maori and Pasifika cultures more generally. While Maori oral histories go back to the 13th century CE when Aotearoa was settled, Australian Aboriginal oral tradition goes back as far as potentially 30,000-40,000 years. Oral tradition is not perfectly reliable, it undergoes drift and change over time, it can experience loss and disruption (from colonization, for example), but it can endure across millennia.

My theory is that these nerds on the FTL ships or their descendants dedicated themselves to the mission of cultural preservation through oral tradition, and thus the Messengers were born. And at some point, the Messengers met up with Blood of Eden and explained that John Gaius’ colonial campaign wasn’t just an unjustified act of aggression and imperialism, but an act of cultural genocide stretching back 10,000 years:

“I charge you with...the utter disintegration of institutions political and social, languages, cultures, religions, all niceties and personal liberties of the nations, by use of-”

“...they’re dead words--a human chain reaching back ten thousand years...how did they feel?” (Harrow the Ninth)

Somewhere around this point, then, BOE took as its mission the preservation of the Messengers, which is why they are given BOE bodyguards, why discharging a weapon in their presence is grounds for execution, and why they are both deeply respected and honored by BOE but kept away from sensitive missions and not necessarily kept in the loop on critical intel.

Why AIM is “They”

This part of my theory suggested an explanation for why AIM is called “they” by Blood of Eden, and why Palamedes Sextus sensed a necromantic implant when they “stumbled” into AIM at the school. We know that the Sixth House has been in contact with Blood of Eden for a very long time, and that Cassiopeia was not only responsible for the Sixth’s “break clause” but also was BOE’s “Source Gram.”

My theory is that Cassiopeia and the Sixth, being a bunch of librarian nerds obsessed with the preservation of cultural knowledge, would never have been entirely comfortable with taking John Gaius’ word for what happened during the Resurrection and what life was like on pre-Resurrection Earth. The natural place to look for an alternate source of documentation would be exo-humanity, and I think she/they went looking clandestinely and came across the Messengers and BOE. Somehow, they avoided killing each other and came to a modus vivendi.

I think part of this modus vivendi was an offer by Cassiopeia/the Sixth to provide the Messengers with an improved means of preserving their oral tradition: namely, a necromantic implant that would preserve the ghosts of dead Messengers and let them communicate with their successors, ensuring that the oral tradition could be passed down perfectly from generation to generation. After all, not only are the Sixth House spirit magicians, but they are specialist psychometricians who know better than anyone else how to pull information about and from the past from material objects, and it was Doctor Sex who gave Palamedes the idea for preserving revenant spirits after death by giving them a physical anchor.

Hence, AIM is they because they are a collective “human chain” of all the Messengers who came before them - they have the voices of hundreds of cultural preservations in their heads, telling them of all that was lost with the fall of Eden. No wonder they want to play school teacher and be “she” for a while.

Conclusion

TLDR: BOE aren’t trillionaires, they’re commie terrorists with a fetish for cultural preservation. So I guess this makes the whole war a case of leftist infighting, considered in the long run?

#the locked tomb #blood of eden #boe #aim #the messenger #the angel #ntn #ntn spoilers #nona the ninth #pash #our lady of the passion #the sixth house #cassiopeia #tlt

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annbourbon · 6 months

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Mystic Messenger Timeline (Explained)

I'll be obviously skipping a lot of stuff in between, but this is just to make things clear. It's not the way you're supposed to play, just the timeline.

⚠️ Contains Spoilers ⚠️

⚠️⚠️ Spoilers ahead ⚠️⚠️

⚠️⚠️ You've been warned ⚠️⚠️

First Rika Behind the Story (DLC)

Then I'll start counting as Year 1, the events that lead to the RFA and Mint Eye foundation.

Year 1:

V and Rika know each other

They meet Saeyoung

Saeyoung leaves

Rika kills the Twins's mom

Rika gets engaged to V

Mika and Rika (Mina) create 1st draft of Mint Eye

V buys the department

*on that note, seems that there are 4 cameras but Saeyoung only knows of one*

**This also implies that Saeran was abused as soon as V and Saeyoung took their eyes off of him since Rika used Saeran as model to defeat Saeyoung's skills as a hacker.

***What happens because neither Saeyoung nor V know anything about Saeran whenever they reunite for RFA parties and their engagement? Why no one asked anything?

Year 2:

Rika meets Jumin

RFA begins (yes, it was Mint Eye first, and the reason why the name was Magenta first. Mika?)

RFA 1st party is held

Jaehee joins RFA

Rika kills Sally

RFA 2nd party is held

According to V and Saeyoung this is where the hacker starts attacking the RFA (first time)

Rika blinds V

Saeyoung installed the Special System. AKA: The Bomb

Plot holes: Where's Mika? Why they don't notice there's another person living there? It's not that easy to hide your presence 💀

But according to V, he knew about Mika. It's at least implied.

10. According to several chats during Yoosung route, they barely paid attention to V being blinded. This of course included Zen, Yoosung, and Jumin (who is worried and suspects something but doesn't intervene despite V having severe corneal damage from external trauma)

11. There's a point where Jumin admits barely seeing Rika after the 2nd party. Meeting with her and V for the last time 3 months before her death. Yoosung Route. Day 9. Chat room 7AM called V's eyes.

*At the same time, there's a line, I forgot where exactly, that says that both, Rika and V called off their engagement at some point. They don't say anything about coming back together after that. wtf!?*

12. "Rika commits suicide"

Another Story

1 month after her death, prologue.

Five months later

*means 4 months after they break up their engagement? Assuming they did not break up before but because of Rika behavior blinding him. Which kind of solves the plot holes from Year 1 setting Mika on the apartment and V not fully knowing but suspecting, although it would be impossible or almost impossible without his eyes do something about it. Especially since his blindness is recent. If you need to understand a bit more about blindness watch my post on Rika killing Sally. It may be a dog, unlike V lol but it's still enough information to set up the rest of the story.

Anyways, let's go back to our timeline no?

Bad ending prologue #1 (Casual & Deep) and #2 (Another) are part of the same story and unlikely that it is set into an *alternative route* like some people like to say. Bad ending prologues even from Another Story seem to fit almost too perfectly when you think about it, but only if you agree to go with Unknown after rejecting him several times.

Because it would fit into the idea that the MC's were captured by the cult and discarded after a while (or put to work under Mint Eye. But also because according to the opening on the Casual and Deep, it would mean that Saeran's been watching you, so does Saeyoung.)

As I said before, the other MC's are either dead or anything but MIA (whatever that means for Mint Eye?) and this one, the brunette, is selected and it's the only one who survives and passed the whole trial. Not at first but it doesn't matter. This MC is not dead. The others are. You think "The others" are just the player with different image? I've got news for you, each one of this has a number~ check this post ^^

Either you become the assistant of Unknown with that bad ending which is an option available for every prologue or you enter Day 1 to Day 4 of Another Story and play throughout to reach:

Day 6 and Day 10 from Ray/Saeran Route which are part of the same ending. They're not a different ending. Both however lead to the Casual Route, Day 1 (after the prologue)

Which means, if you get the bad ending in the prologue of Casual/Deep you'll be going back to Mint Eye. Yes. It's not supposed to be your first rodeo there. And if you have a Bad Ending on Mint Eye, you're brainwashed andd set on Casual/Deep (You're supposed to be an spy, but who do you work for? Are you a victim or a villainess? that's another story 😜)

My theory?

*This is where I'm still stuck, so I'll be fixing major plots here and there and editing this same post over and over until I get it right. Please bear with me 😭*

Rika DLC > 1st party > Rika gets engaged > Saeyoung leaves > Rika kills Sally > Rika kills Saeran's mom > Rika starts torturing Saeran > Mint Eye begins > 2nd party > Hacker attack > Bomb is installed > Rika blinds V > Rika dies > Another Story (prologue) > Another Story (Day 1 to 4) > Another Story (Day 6 & 10, bad relationship both of them) obviously with what causes these bad endings > Casual Route (with bad endings included) > Deep Story (with bad endings included) > Secret Endings (except for V dying, we'll get there) > Another Story again but V route happens first (no happy or normal ending) and then something weird happens:

And this part if I'm being honest, I have no idea but I'm fixing it cause my theory is that

V and Saeran's route become so intertwined that is almost impossible to know what happened.

The bomb on Mint Eye? Saeran? Although it is suggesting in the bad endings that he died, we never saw that to happen.

V dying in the secret endings?

Saeran burn?

Seven does mention a couple of numbers, associated with the other MCs, somewhere in the game. Unfortunately I can't remember if it's on a call or a chat so I'm going back all over again because I was so shocked at the time I was unable to take a screenshot.

Truth to be said I can't fully find the order rn but! I will, I definitely will. I need time. I mean, more time. I've been working on this for 6 to 7 years now, I'm posting this because it's so big I can't keep it to myself and I'm freaking out here. So I'll be editing this in the future. As many of my other posts. Sorry lol

Ironically, Saeran's AE would be indeed the Final Ending.

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