#the only canon timeline change we know hes completed is that first event. but ...

[dangaer]

the one thing i think will always be downplayed in obm is the reality of just how much of the 'silent observer' barbatos remains.

[voidhope]

The Other Woman

—

Synopsis: Where Miguel leaves Y/N to go back to a different version of his old wife found in another universe.

Pair: Miguel O’Hara x Spider!Reader

Tags: ANGST!!, long term established relationship, heartbreak, marriage, cheating, mental health, cold/distant Miguel

—

A/N: Hi! I don’t really write at all!!

I have been a silent reader on tumblr for years but this idea has been playing in my mind so much I had the urge to write it. I have been down so bad for Miguel been on his tag like 24/7 indulging in all the content creators have been putting out. So I’m excited to join in giving content, however keep in mind I kinda suck! Apologies for any mistakes, anything confusing, or it not being well written enough. Honestly could have made this into multiple parts with better details but nah. Tried my best ^^ since it’s my first time, any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Honestly tbh we all don’t have a solid grasp how the whole canon thing and multi universe works yet so!! A lot of what is written is made up to suit my storyline so please don’t get mad about the inaccuracies.

I love a good angst and today’s story will be EXTRAAA angsty!!! As well kinda long!!

—————————————————

The moment that changed your life was while working on an experiment during your college finals. You were a proud and gifted physics major that was so passionate about discovering and exploring what the world didn’t know.

You had snuck into Alchemax late at night. You wanted to show your professors just how much you could do with the right tools. Next thing you know, playing with their machines, you had spawned a spider right in-front of you. The glowing vibrant red spider had sunk its jaw into your hand.

Your life did a complete turn and you spent the rest of that week freaking out while changes to your body were happening. Causing you to fail your semester after missing exams. Things felt like it could only get worse when a massive blue suited masked man showed up out of nowhere in your dorm interrogating you.

“Where’s the spider?” He had a strong grip on your shoulders. You couldn’t focus while trying to process why this man had what seemed like claws sticking out of the ends of his fingers.

“I don’t know, it like died after it bit me!” You exclaimed nervously at the freakishly strong man. Trying to reach for anything behind you to use as a defense weapon.

“Dios mío no me digas eso…” He groaned loudly letting you go. Having the opportunity to grab something, you threw a sanrio plushie at him. Only causing him to wave his arms in annoyance. “That spider is from my earth and somehow you brought it here. Now you’re a spider-man.”

And the rest is history…

—

You learned that the man was Miguel O’Hara and when he found you he was just starting his missions with the multiverse. You being the few of the firsts to join his team.

Your situation was quite bizarre and he called you an anomaly for a long time, spending hours studying you and also training you. You ended up being the one case that can’t be explained no matter how much effort was put into monitoring you.

Almost like it was meant to be. Your universe remained perfect with its current spider-man doing fine. No big collapse of a black hole or anything. When you got bit by a spider from Earth-928 your DNA merged with that universe making you fit in perfectly. You were one of the only spider-people with an uncertain timeline with new canons being created depending on what universe you were in.

What changed from you being just a piece of research for Miguel is when he then realized that maybe you were a gift from the multiverse. After all the grief and pain he’d went through the universe had given him this person that worked out perfectly no matter how hard he tried to push them away. You fell head over heels for him and vice versa, all while canon events were being created with both of you together.

You were there as his team grew, slowly turning into a family. Then both of you getting married finalizing that this was your home. Everything felt perfect. Although a relationship with Miguel could have its up and down days, nothing could ever tear you both apart. Or so you assumed.

—

“I’m sorry Y/N.” Miguel couldn’t look at you.

“When did this start? Please be honest with me. Did I do something wrong?” You begged at him. You knew he was acting off recently but never did you think it would result to this.

You watched as he exhaled deeply staring at the ground. You felt like you couldn’t breathe as you studied his face trying to grasp onto any emotion he was showing. The atmosphere in his office felt so cold. You so badly wanted to catch his gaze and find the warmth and love his red irises used to give you. He was doing everything to push you away. He was abandoning you.

“You did nothing wrong. I met her during a mission 4 months ago.” Was all he replied.

“Who is she?” Your heart kept breaking. His face hardening as the question slipped through your lips. You knew Miguel wouldn’t leave you for just anyone. Deep in your heart you knew what this was about. He never responded but he didn’t need to when you saw his eyes flicker over to his monitor screens. You followed his trace and saw the photo of Gabriella in the corner.

“Does she have another version of your daughter?” You tried again. This is what made him look directly at you. Miguel kept opening and closing his month unsure how to tell you the truth. You weren’t stupid and he knew that. After everything he couldn’t just walk out on you with a lie.

“No.” He paused thinking of how to finally share the truth without it ruining you. There was no way out of this. “She is a younger version of herself. There is no Miguel in her universe and she’s not important to the timeline. She lives a regular life. I-it’s a chance for me to start at the very beginning.”

You felt your heart being ripped out of your chest. You processed the words carefully. She doesn’t have a child yet… Not only was he leaving you for her but he was going to fall in love with her all over again and start a family with her. A family you wanted so badly to have with him.

“What about with what happened last time you tried to live a life in a different universe?” You didn’t understand how this was happening.

He was always so carful he would never do anything to cause that again. Everything you had witness Miguel work so hard for to keep safe for years. Sleepless nights, returning bruised and beaten, frustrations and constant stress. Was it all for nothing? Is he throwing all his work away?

“This is different.” He turned away from you. “I pushed myself then into an already established life. This time I am creating that life. After all the research we did on you…” He knew that this was going to tear you apart. “I learned that if done right I could have a child from two different universes that won’t disrupt anything.”

It clicked to you then that all the research he was doing on you lately was for this. The research he did on you that time was different, personal, intimate even. As he was testing your DNAs together and seeing the outcomes. He mentioned a child and you were foolish enough to assume he was doing research to see what it would be like if you both had one together. You were giddy even as you watched him work. You had both spoken about having a family together in the past but had been too busy with spider activities. You thought it was a sign of him getting more serious about it, knowing how badly he wanted one. You would have never thought he was doing it to see how he could get back his previous child. The one you could never give him.

You had truly believe that Miguel had recovered from his obsession that his grief gave him. He accidentally destroyed a whole universe needing that life back so badly. You had spent late nights watching him re-watch clips over and over of what he had lost. It slowly stopped once your relationship blossomed with him and you thought he was ready to move on and start new. Why would you have never thought that with such a perfect opportunity presented to him that he wouldn’t drop everything for it.

“I think it’s best that you leave.” He spoke with a soft tone. As if not looking at you any longer will make the problem go away. You couldn’t wrap your mind around how he was just throwing you away like this. As if he wasn’t making you dinner, giving soft kisses, whispering I-love-you’s not so long ago.

You felt too choked up to ask anymore questions. Your throat tight and painful as you held back tears from escaping in-front of Miguel. You just nodded and headed straight out the door not being able to handle another second in that room. Your knees and hands were shaky as you speed walked into the nearest bathroom and let it all out.

—

It didn’t take long for everyone else to know something had happened. Everyone had gotten used to seeing you and him sitting together at lunch. You would make him cute lunch boxes and everyone would gag a bit while watching the two of you smile together. Some cringing seeing their scary boss being so soft around you. It was a big surprise when Miguel started to eat alone with a bag of take out food and you no where to be seen.

His teams he sent out for missions were all confused when you weren’t assigned to anything. Knowing you were one of the best, one of them slipped out a “Call for Y/N!” In the middle of fighting an anomaly too strong for them. Miguel only looked away.

It wasn’t until a new woman showed up in Miguel’s office with a grip around his waist. That’s when the spider-community realized that this was way worse than they thought.

—

You on the other hand had spilled everything to Hobie when he caught you that day leaving the bathroom with puffy eyes. You had been staying with him in his universe until you could gather yourself together to return to HQ. You knew you were going to leave for good, but you needed to go back to retrieve all your things. You couldn’t stay with Hobie forever. Worse that you weren’t from there.

You still had some hope that Miguel would come looking for you and tell you that he was all wrong. However almost two months had passed and not a word from him… That’s when you knew it was time you should return to what you once knew.

Stepping into the portal Hobie followed close behind you. He told the few others who were once close to both you and Miguel that you would be visiting. Stepping through the portal you were immediately greeted by Jessica and Peter B Parker.

“Oh, Y/N.” Jess sighed your name sadly while pulling you into a hug. You felt like you wanted to cry all over again. Missing your friends so much. Peter B came behind giving you a hug on the side.

“He’s on a mission right now.” Peter spoke up. “It might be a long one too but don’t waste anytime just incase.”

You nodded pulling away from them. Looking up around the headquarters building faintly smiling at the past memories you had here. You started heading to different areas gathering all the little things you had left around. Hobie had stitched for you a cute backpack with different scraps of patterned clothes and covered in patches of punk band logos but made with hammer space technology. Making it fun for you to fill endless of your things in the bag.

The last stop was in Miguel’s office. Doubt started to fill your mind; maybe he already threw out all of your stuff. Why would he even keep it after all of this? What no one could warn you of was the other person sitting on his platform.

“Hello!” She chirped at you. It felt like the air in your lungs had just been punched out. You knew her too well. From all the photos and videos you had seen peaking over Miguel’s shoulder. However seeing her in person was something you had never expected. You knew it wasn’t the original her but it was a copy paste image for sure.

“Hi.” Was all you managed to choke out. She was beautiful, stunning. You could see clearly now the similar features she shared in another universe with her daughter. The parts that Miguel didn’t have. She kept smiling kindly at you, almost in a graceful way. You started to feel all your insecurities start eating you up from the inside. How could you have ever compared to her.

“What’s your name? I don’t think I’ve seen you here before.” Getting off Miguel’s platform she walked closer to you. The room started to feel suffocating.

“Y/N.”

“Well, it’s nice to meet you! It’s nice to meet other girls around here.”

Your eyebrows furrowed as you realized she had no reaction to your name. So Miguel never told her about you… Or that the fact was he was still even legally married to you.

“My boyfriend isn’t here right now but, if you want, I can tell him you stopped by.” She continued as you stayed silent.

“Oh, no it’s okay. I just came in here to get some stuff.” You rushed as you really wanted nothing to do with Miguel at all. You almost worried that he might even get angry knowing you got to speak with her. If he already dislikes you this much you couldn’t even imagine how he would feel if you got in the way of this for him.

You started heading over to the familiar drawers around the room. Grabbing your old hoodies and shirts finding your most comfortable of things here. You treated this place as one of your safe spaces as you used to spend so much time here.

“Oh I didn’t know these were all yours! I was wondering why this was all around. When I came here I wanted to do some spring cleaning but Miguel wouldn’t let me touch anything.” She followed besides you. “It’s so mind blowing seeing all this technology. We don’t have any of this where I live-“ She continue rambling but you started to zone her out. You felt like you were about to have a panic attack any minute. There was one question that kept burning in your mind.

“Are you and Miguel already planning to have a child?” You blurted out. Your eyes widened a bit as you surprised yourself. She let out a loud laugh.

“Oh dear no! We have only been together about 6 months. You must be new around here so you must not know much about us.” She chuckled.

In some cruel way you were hoping she would have said yes. You had that twisted hope of maybe Miguel just keeping her to have a kid and ditching her after he gets Gabriella and run back to you. In reality he was playing the long game, he really meant it when we said he was starting over. “He’s never mentioned kids anyways. I’m not even sure if he’d like them or do well with them.”

With that statement she made you looked at her appalled. Anyone could see in Miguel how good of a father he could be. Just in the way he takes care of the society he built here. You started to realize that she really has been left in the dark. She doesn’t know anything. She probably doesn’t even know that she’s a replacement of another self. You wondered why Miguel was doing this. It felt like he didn’t just toy with you but with her as well. A man you came to love for how selfless he was, to realize now everything was for his own personal gain. Suddenly you started to feel bad for her. You couldn’t dislike her, she wasn’t doing anything wrong and she doesn’t even know.

“I got all my stuff. Nice to meet you.” Was all you could say as you zipped up your bag and turned straight around out of there. Not giving any glance back at her, you left to one of the empty training rooms to recollect your overwhelming thoughts. All of the self healing you tried the past month thrown in the garbage.

It wouldn’t be too soon that news of you going around the building was returned to Lyla. You had cut out all coms while you were gone so she immediately popped up on your watch when she found out.

“AH-“ You jumped as the tiny AI was suddenly in front of your face.

“It’s so wonderful to see you Y/N. Oh my god!”She started. Then she went on rambling about how she knew everything and had seen everything. How she didn’t agree with what was happening and was doing everything she could to convince you to stay. After 5 minutes of her rambling you stopped her to let your emotions out.

“Lyla, Lyla It’s okay. Just stop. It’s all complicated I know, but this didn’t work out. I wished Miguel just cheated on me like all the other fucked up normal men out there. That I walked in on him deep in another random girl. Though painful I could have tried fixing and fighting for us. But instead what I got was him emotionally cheating on me and chase after something he knows I can never give him.” You felt yourself choke up. “I can never ask him to give up what he longs and dreams for just for me to be happy. I lost this battle the moment he laid eyes on her.”

Finding comfort in the AI your husband made. You’ve created a bond with Lyla that Miguel found cute but you knew now this might be the last time you’ll be speaking with her.

“You can give him a family y/n… you guys have been married two years now. I know you’ve both set the thought aside until the multiverse issues are better but you can fight for him. You have to snap him out of his fantasy. He still thinks about you.”

“Lyla you know deep down truly he never just wanted a family. He wanted exactly what he had. What he lost. Which should be impossible but being by his side seeing how insane the multiverse is… Good for him for believing in something so hard he’s found himself even a third chance to do it.”

“I hate that you’re being too kind about this situation.” Lyla paced around you.

“I love him so deeply Lyla. You know that very well. It’s so hard to suddenly hate him. I am angry, but I’m also emotionally drained I can’t do this.” You let out a deep sigh. “I’ve watched him long for this family when we just met. For some stupid reason when things worked out for us I thought I would be enough… When we got engaged and he would spend some days at home with me not even coming to HQ. I thought he was finally moving on not just from his grief and past but from the weight of his work. I saw a bright future for us.”

“You can still have a bright future with him! You moving here gave him a new canon event, another chance at life in his timeline. Here in his own universe! He’s just too obsessed and he’s lost himself in that.” She exclaimed with her hands up.

“Our canon event was our wedding.” Your frowned deepened. “But the universe didn’t say anything else after. It doesn’t say our canon event means we are suppose to live happily together forever I guess.”

“I’m just trying my best to be optimistic. I rooted so hard for you and Miguel when you joined the team. I know you can remember the amount of times I would force you both in rooms.” Lyla recalled.

“And I’m grateful for it… Even if this didn’t work out. I was given precious memories, not just working with you and being on this team but falling in love with Miguel. I know I’m being all depressed and hopeless but I feel like even if I move on I’ll never be able to replace him and find a relationship like this again. However he threw me away so easily and maybe he never valued me as much as I did to him.” You felt your emotions bubble. “I became who I am here. I’m going to miss everyone so much.”

“You can still stay here and work with us.” She edged on.

“I can’t just sit around here begging at his feet to return to me or moping around doing missions while watching him with someone else. I want to hate him so badly. I know he’s your boss and you’re basically hardwired to do everything for him and you’re trying your hardest to fix what you think is his right path. But think of me a little more and how miserable it’ll be. I’m the only one hurting here.”

Lyla paused and stared at you with an almost glossy-eyed look. While she worked she could see the inner term-oil Miguel was hiding and the emptiness he was turning to since trying to start new in the other universe. It just wasn’t her place to hold this conversation and he was the one who needed to get a grip of himself and really think and talk with you. She can’t be the one trying to mend the pieces for both of you together. What Miguel did was so wrong. She knew you were right and she didn’t want to see any more damage be caused to you.

“You’re right. I’m sorry.” She looked up at you sincerely. “I hate this outcome for you. Not only are you loosing your husband but your home. When was the last time you’ve even been in your universe?”

“Like a year ago for a mission…”

“Exactly! Even if things are over with Miguel, you have all of us here! I wish you could stay. I understand you leaving, I really do. I know a lot of us will try visiting you but I’m tied to Miguel…” You started to see how it clicked for her too that it’s most likely you might not see each other for a long time. “Even if a spider-person is visiting you I can’t just show up on their watch… It’ll go back to him and I know you wouldn’t want that. I know I’m an AI and I can’t hold real emotions but I mean it when I say I’m going to miss you.”

Tears poured down your cheeks as her words hit you. Going back to your universe is going to be a struggle. You have nothing there now. However nothing can compare to the pain of the outcome you’ve had with Miguel, and you needed out of here ASAP. Your mental health getting worse the longer you stay. Even the other spiders you have come to love can’t bring that spark back right now. You needed genuine time for yourself, even if it’s self destructive, instead of putting on a fake smile everyday here.

“Bye, Lyla.” You whispered. She nodded and waved her hand goodbye at you before disappearing. You took your watch off your wrist placing it on a nearby desk. With it you pulled the divorce paperwork out of your pocket neatly sealed and already signed on your half. Opening a portal you took your last glances at the place you spent so many loving memories in.

Tears blurred your vision as you stepped through the portal. Once your legs landed on a rooftop of a building in your dimension, you racked out full sobs falling to your knees.

You were always just the other woman.

—————————————————

Thank you so much for reading!! I know it was a longer one ~

would anyone like a part 2? If so anyone want a angsty or happy ending? I think it’ll be more in Miguel’s perspective as well!

EDIT: You can now read PART 2 here

[silvergreenseraphim]

I am still reading through Ultimania translations like a certain someone in the data room…

Here are some curious notes on our Jenova Project scientists, Vincent, and Sephiroth that I know you will all appreciate.

That note about Hojo envying Gast and his genius—please keep this in mind. It will come into play for these next translations.

The research on Omega and the Kalm experiments were also in the Shinra manor. It makes you wonder if Sephiroth read any of that and further saw how cruel Shinra was.

The Jenova cell flashes in Sephiroth’s mind that we saw in the Rebirth demo can be seen in this image from the Crisis Core guide.

This is where everything becomes more interesting. Something not fully explained in DOC is Lucrecia’s own deterioration. It would appear that Vincent confronted Hojo over this after Sephiroth was born and taken away (or did he?). Lucrecia was falling to pieces it seems. (We will come back to this).

(Small note, but it looks like Vincent actually did propose to Lucrecia).

The next pile of notes are from the older Ultimania Omega from 2005, and some debate the validity of the text and whether it still holds true to current canon. However, if we are willing to consider Crisis Core from 2007 as canon, then I see no issue with this Ultimania unless something is directly changed.

For our Jenova project scientists, there is just more detail not spoken in the game. Some of it is fascinating and helpful.

I take this information as extra insight that the original game did not give us and mostly canon as well. Reading it felt like a stab to the chest even if I knew most of it.

We know from DOC that Lucrecia did love Vincent in the end, but during their time together she pushed him away because of the guilt with his father and gave into her love for Hojo instead.

It is….strange but that line from the CC guide about Hojo’s envy of Gast was apparently a concept here too. It supposedly was so strong that it brought out a maternal love in Lucrecia. Very likely this was before Hojo was completely mad and murderous.

I also wonder if Lucrecia’s affection was only that overall. A feeling that didn’t last when she realized Hojo’s complex was destructive and not “cute.”

These are the details some debate and I believe it has been for shipping reasons in the past…but as a non-shipper, I can see this happening with such a complex group of people.

The next bit about Lucrecia’s deterioration is also odd because it almost sounds as though Lucrecia disappeared only because of her body’s collapse. DOC once again changed the order of these events to where Lucrecia left after failing to save Vincent and losing her son.

It also looks like Vincent confronted Hojo much earlier. We are now left to interpretation maybe since DOC’s own timeline is hard to follow. There are plenty of people who have these events better thought through than me.

But if we combine all of these details together and ignore the timeline, we have more reasons for Lucrecia’s breakdown in general. Vincent’s bodily corruption, the loss of Sephiroth, and Lucrecia’s own degradation. We may not know the very order of every event until Rebirth or the third game, which is okay. These are still good details.

This hurts so much and I do not even need to explain why, ahaha. Hojo is so, so cruel to his own family.

I have recently pulled a translation from this section which some of you may recognize. All of the small details make me emotional 🥲

And this is the last one I wanted to share. I cannot stop thinking about Hojo’s inferiority complex with Gast because we know Sephiroth looked up to and admired Gast from a young age. How bitter Hojo must have been that his own son adored a man he hated. The implications of how complicated this could have made their relationship are endless. No wonder Hojo murdered Gast without hesitation. A walking mass of complexes indeed.

I think this is so emotional for me because of The First Soldier and Rebirth now. These details matter for enrichment.

Edit: I should once again clarify what I think about the 2005 Ultimania because there are fans that dismiss it thanks to its questionable text in spots. I believe that if a note from this book does not directly contradict currently established canon, then it may be safe to take in as context enrichment.

For example, all of the information about Sephiroth here is still accurate to the most recent depictions of his character, but there are small details added about why he believed he was different.

I do not see any reason to fully dismiss this because it does no harm to canon and does not go against what we have seen even in recent media like Ever Crisis.

On the other hand, the information about Lucrecia and when she left and why is much more fragile because Dirge of Cerberus added a new take on her motives. For this reason, I will only cherry-pick. I would say the detail about deterioration is accurate because that was hinted at in DOC but it’s no longer the only reason she left.

But everyone should make up their own minds on how to approach this Ultimania.

[total-drama-brainrot]

Hello! About the fake dating!au, I was wondering how the episode Niagara brawls would play out if Alenoaheather was happening. Would Alejandro and heather still be paired up or would one of them be paired up with Noah?

Well, to be entirely honest, I haven't really thought too much on it yet. Mostly because it's still kind of up-in-the-air as to when Noah's elimination would take place in this AU. I think we've sort of settled on post-merge, so he would be present in the Niagara Falls challenges, but the timeline's still really vague so I personally haven't really invested any time in figuring out the semantics of how each episode would play out.

But since you asked, I might as well toss my hat into the ring! I'll just type out my thoughts as they come, so please excuse this response if it's a little all-over-the-place or formatted weirdly.

Off the bat, it's been fairly well established that the canon final four remains unchanged, so at the very least both Sierra and Cody are still present in this challenge; this is important, since in canon the only reason Heather ends up partnered with Alejandro is because Sierra is the one who rejects him as a husband first. I don't really see a reason to change the canonical play of events here, unless a brainstorming session later on down the line necessitates Noah being paired with either Heather or Alejandro for whatever reason. Mostly just because keeping as many "pre-written" plot points as possible lessens the workload on our shoulders (us, of course, being me and @perpetualexistence, and occasionally @ur-local-brown-multifandomist).

But that does leave the question of who Noah would be paired with.

And again, this would be super dependant on who's left in the competition at this point; since Noah's made it to the merge, we know someone has to have taken his place in the London elimination- just that small change could have potential consequences on all of the subsequent eliminations afterwards, so the merge cast might look almost completely different to World Tour's "official" line-up.

And this is also super dependant on whether or not it's Blaineley who wins the Aftermayhem challenge- I'm not sure if any of the others intend to swap her out for a more interesting/plot relevant contestant (which, as much as I do love Blaineley, she's just find of there with no real relevance to the story) like perhaps Lindsay, Leshawna or maybe even Beth- I assume it'd have to be a girl, since the show itself works to even out it's gender ratios, but it could hypothetically be anyone.

So Noah's partner could be... literally anyone, save for the Final Four (Alejandro, Heather, Sierra and Cody).

...Unless?

Now, don't judge me here, but I do kind of like the idea of Noah ending up with Heather as his partner. Maybe it's the vast potential of how their (entirely self-constructed, and self-indulgent) character dynamic could play out in this scenario, or maybe I just want the opportunity to write Noah trying and failing to pick up Heather, eventually leading to her being the one to carry him across the Falls tightrope like a pathetic, soggy kitten. Or maybe I'm just getting my Noaheather on- who knows?

All I'm saying is, they'd be giving a lot of Connecticut Clark and Malfina vibes and I'm so here for it.

And maybe I just want to see something new; there's so many explorations of how an Alenoah Niagara Brawls challenge would play out (and they're all wonderful, don't get me wrong!) so it's time to give some other pairings the spotlight!

Plus, this particular scenario would not only allow the contestants to see Heather and Noah acting like the "fake" couple they're supposed to be, but Alejandro could also play it as either a double-breach of his trust (since he's also supposed to be "fake" dating Noah, at least, and he has his whole romantic rivalry with Heather) or take advantage of his position and try to charm whoever he's partnered up with and either secure a valuable ally for later on down the road, or beguile his next elimination target into a false sense of security- since a huge part of Alejandro's character is his conniving flirtatiousness, and I don't want to completely negate that.

Now that I'm thinking about it, Alejandro's flirty nature could be a conflict point between himself and his partners. That's a thought for another time, though.

But, again, it's still very up-in-the-air and I don't really think I can give a definitive answer until a proper elimination order has been established- or, at the very least, the elimination order pre-merge. So, uh, sorry for the lack of a definitive answer!

[charmixpower]

So I've been asked what my ideal relationship timeline is winx would be like for the canon relationships (on discord), so here it is!!!

Bloom/Sky:

This fucking relationship was a mess! Not even a mess in the way Rivusa was a mess, I mean them both imagining a kiss at the end of s1 fucking mess. Help what is wrong with them

For them I would like them to get in a relationship before the Trix try and convince Bloom that she was made by the ancestral witches (Valtor foreshadowing?) and then they break up during the Diaspro event. He gets his ass DUMPED!!! Consequences for your actions you little asshole!!!

They make up during the s1 finale and Sky is like "can we start dating again 🥺" and Bloom is like "No💙". The imagined kiss can still happen, it was so insane, you can keep it

Then s2 happens and Sky is trying so hard to be a good bf "plz take me backkk" and then hes like "I hate Avalon. I'm not even like doing this bc I want you back, that man is CREEPY. Riven agrees and we had an entire civil conversation about it. Baby plz." Bloom is not listening 💙💙💙 and then the dark Bloom thing happens and Sky fights tooth and nail to save her and they make up form like everything from s1 and s2!!! Yaya

After all that they are dating now, good for them, good for them. WAIT? WHATS GOING ON?? ITS VALTOR WITH THE STEEL CHAIR!!! SKLOOM IS ON THE FUCKING FLOOR!!! God they are such a fucking mess goddamn

Riven very quickly points out that Sky was under mind control and Bloom feels bad and she goes to save him and they talk about it and they're fine mostly. They talk about it, it hurt them both but it doesn't fuck them up completely

The first movie is the same except they don't get engaged, please calm down both of you, think about this for a little longer, but they're happy and good for them

Stella/Brandon:

Literally the only thing I would change is that they are obviously in a relationship early in s1 and they DON'T break up after the reveal, even though Brandon thinks they're broken up

That's it, aside from that no notes

Musa/Riven:

The show ends after the first movie, the later seasons don't exist and can't hurt me (<- are currently hurting me)

In season one it's established that Musa and Riven met before the season and Musa remembers the interaction a better than Riven does, instead of her seeing Riven act like a dick and then suddenly liking him. She's already seen the soft side of him and she wants the "mean to everyone but me" relationship bc Musa is insane too ❤️

S1 and s2 should vibe most untouched aside from this and Riven and Musa should both acknowledge that they like each other at the beginning of s2 but don't get in a relationship bc Riven isn't emotionally ready 4 another relationship so soon after Darcy and Musa is nomral about it (she's not).

S3 except the golden Kingdom is slightly different, the worry Riven is feeling is shown over anything else. Yeah I'll keep the motorcycle thing in, Riven can't communicate and Musa has a mood disorder they're gonna get into a couple dump fights at first. That's just being mentally ill they're fine. They should like immediately make up tho, like as someone who knows people like this the apologies for being insane bc you had a mood swing or can't read social cues are like so quick

Keep the first movie but Riven doesn't have to relearn any lessons, he is simply vibing and in love with Musa and breaks out of mind control bc of his resounding guilt after being forced to hurt her

Tecna/Timmy:

TIMMY DOESN'T HAVE TO PROVE HIMSELF IN S2!!!! EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME BUT THAT

Okay and Tecna doesn't explicitly state she doesn't want a relationship bc then it feels weird when she gets into one

But like in s2 when Tecna gets pissed at Timmy for not intentionally picking a fight he can't win that could get him killed?? She's treated as the one in the wrong and has to learn to be more chill than Timmy having to do anything, he literally wasn't in the wrong

S2 was so disrespectful to Timmy I SWEAR

Flora/Helia:

GIVE THEM MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER TRAIT!!!!!

Flora stops having a personality after this, please let her yell at people in begging you. Give Flora a character arc I'm begging you

Helia doesn't have a personality!! He has a bunch of implications and he's literally never around in s2 OR s3!! So often it's the winx and specialists except Helia!!

Let them like express different sides of their personality and give Helia more screen time, that's all I ask

I'm on my knees begging you

I can't even say anything because there's literally nothing to go off of

Take the shab stone comic and put it into the show

Aisha/Nabu:

Please imagine a world where Aisha is arranged to marry someone and that person and her love interest are two different ppl

Keep it the same except Nabu isn't her arranged partner, they meet while fighting on Andros and Nabu keeps showing up because he ran away from home and has no idea what the fuck he's doing without all his servants and he's asking Aisha for help djwbdbwjsbwnwbs

That would be MY ideal for them but if have to keep the large plot points the same I wouldn't change anything, like my problem is the inciting incident of their relationship the development itself is cute, but id want them to become official in s4 instead. Only Florelia (sane people) and Brella (soulmates) can get away with the one season romance and make it feel natural, Aisha would not get into a relationship that quickly, but that's a nitpick if anything

No other Aisha relationships exist and if they did they'd be with Roy and not Nex shut up

[ceranovis]

Some musings to do with this celltw pic

As a fandom I feel like we could be doing So Much More with Other Side Elements being canon + all the connected Ordem worldbuilding it introduces by association.

Canonically, Cellbit chose to align himself with the knowledge element. So I hopped on over to the ordem wiki page for Knowledge to look for things to put in the paperwork on the table. Then I realized there's a memory alteration ritual (accidentally pulled the wrong ritual circle image for the art though oTL ...let's just pretend Cellbit identified the right one at some point).

The [Change Memory Ritual] can erase all or only some specific memories of the victim. In both cases, if the victim comes into contact with people, places and certain objects that were part of this past erased, it will begin to gradually recall some elements and have quick flashes of some moments, being able to recover its memory completely after a while.

Now listen. If there's one thing I think of as core to q!Cellbit's character, it's that as far as he's concerned the ends always justifies the means. This includes doing things he knows people he loves will hate him for because he thinks it will be better for them in the long run.

In the regret arc letters, he told Tazercraft he loved them, that Cell was dead & he didn't want them to think he was reverting to that type of monster. While there were a few moments where he brought up clearly unresolved feelings of anger and betrayal/abandonment regarding how things went with Fuga, I do think at that point he cared for the Favela crew as a found-family, and was making decisions he felt were in their best interest (usually without consulting them, or like...running those ideas by anyone else ever...)

If he discovered a way to erase specific memories, I could fully see him using that to 'make things better' for Pac. I doubt he'd try to erase all the Fuga memories (especially as he'd have to also erase Mike and Felps) but I also don't think he'd feel like he had to go that far anyways.

Earlier on in the Quesadilla timeline, Pac seemed to think of Cell as basically dormant and was relatively comfortable with having a fairly close and positive relationship with Cellbit. He only grew paranoid about Cell re-emerging when he saw signs of Cellbit snapping, and he first responded by actively trying to keep Cellbit in a headspace that wouldn't lead to that. There have been multiple instances of Pac extending a bit of grace, an unspoken offer not to forgive or forget but to move forward. He wants Cellbit to be a good man, not a monster.

So I think Cellbit would use the ritual to smooth over events that put a strain on their current relationship. Things that made Pac scared he was turning back into Cell. And he'd probably justify it as 'helping' Pac, but there's also a selfish element there too, of him desperately trying to keep hold of this new start and family he probably doesn't deserve but somehow got anyways.

It's small things at first-- just wiping away little instances that put Pac on edge around him. Pac is prone to glossing over Cellbit's red flags anyways, so even if other people remember what Pac doesn't, it wouldn't set off immediate alarm bells. Nobody would catch on to the manipulation.

Pac himself would write off most of the weird, vague flashes he gets sometimes. It feels sort of like deja vu but with an extra helping of uneasy dread. He's not very self-confident when it comes to his brain; he's just being unreasonably paranoid because of his memories of Cell-- those half-memories are so foggy because his brain is panicking and conflating the past with the present, right? More importantly, wants to trust Cellbit.

Now, there's a clip of Pac (which I can't find now but it lives in my head rent free) where he implies that, if Cellbit and Roier hadnt been introduced, he and Cellbit would have been together.

There are a few points in the canon timeline where guapoduo could have been derailed. Cellbit may never have even gotten to that point with Roier if he and Pac were already a little bit closer. If he was fucking with Pac's memories in a way that made Pac less cautious of him, I think it's entirely possible their relationship would have had a chance to develop in place of guapoduo's.

Cellbit didn't start erasing memories with the intention of getting Pac to fall for him though. He wanted the olive branch Pac extended. He wanted Pac to not be terrified of him. But it never occured to him that Pac might be capable of falling in love with the man who ate his goddamn leg. So it completely blindsides him when Pac does, in fact, very deliberately step over the line between platonic and romantic in their relationship.

It feels a lot more morally dubious to be manipulating Pac's memories once that happens. But he's in too deep. He knows Pac would hate him if he found out the truth. But isn't it better this way anyways? Pac, somehow, impossibly, wants to love him-- it's not like he's forcing Pac feel anything about him, right? He knows how terrible betrayal feels-- and he doesn't have to make Pac feel that way, doesn't have to hurt him like that! All he has to do is omit the truth. It's not even a lie, really.

He wants Pac to be happy, wants to preserve the warmth Pac looks at him with now, and if holding his tongue is what assures that... well he can swallow down the guilt gnawing at him and bear that mental burden for both of them. Theres so much in their history for him to feel guilty about anyways, what's one more thing?

Unfortunately for Cellbit, he's never used the ritual on people prior to this, and the books he got it from were light on details as to how it works. He has no idea that the locks on Pac's memories start to slowly erode as soon as he encounters a trigger. And since all of the erased memories are of Cellbit, their time together is just speeding up that process.

Eventually, Pac regains a memory he can't just brush off. And he has to come to terms with the fact that something is very, very wrong between them even if he doesn't understand exactly what's happening to him. He'd figure it out eventually, go through Cellbit's notes in secret and piece things together. When he does he's horrified and angry and heartbroken. But he's torn too because it's not like he can just forget the relationship they've built either, even if he now knows the foundation is half rotted.

He still loves Cellbit, despite every fucked up thing Cellbit has ever done to him.

The question is really whether Pac loves himself enough to pull the plug on this unhealthy dynamic.

[rosemaidenvixen]

Tales of Arcadia fic recs-Rise of the Titans fix it edition

This project's been a long time coming and I'm super happy to finish at last. Here we have a compilation of written responses to the complete dumpster fire that was supposed to be the franchise finale for Tales of Arcadia. Now this is not a comprehensive list by any means, just a collection of my personal favorites and what I consider the best fix-it takes of Rise of the Titans, broken down into several categories.

Bits and Pieces-Not full fix its, but some short little one shots and alternate takes that make the worst parts of of RotT easier to swallow.

Let’s Try That Again-Jim uses the Krohnisfere only to go back to earlier parts of RotT, not the entire franchise.

Instinct of Self-Preservation-Undoes Strickler's pointless death and Jim doesn't go back in time.

Remembering and Honoring a Hero-In a world where the Krohnisfere doesn't exist, the city of Arcadia gathers to remember the fallen hero, Toby Domalski.

Hope Overture-Canon compliant Stricklake, in the new timeline Barbara and Strickler are hit with memories they shouldn't rightly have.

Technically canon compliant-These fics don’t contradict any of the events of RotT, rather pick up where RotT left off with the new timeline of Toby being the Trollhunter. In general I'm not a fan of this particular type of fic. RotT was such a mess all around I don't like the idea of building on it, but the stories below are exceptions for a reason. Not only do these fics work as continuations, each of them is enjoyable on their own merits.

Challenging Destiny @pinkytoothlesso11-Picks up where canon left off, but with the twist of Jim and Toby sharing the amulet as co Trollhunters. From there it grows to include wizards, changelings, and Akiridions working together to bring back magic and create a better future for all. Not only is this story fantastic as it navigates the benefits and pitfalls of knowledge of the future, but the buildup to an eventual post-Masquerade world is set up so well. And this might be a continuation of canon but don't let that fool you, this story never misses an opportunity to throw well deserved shade at the source material.

Trollhunters: Becoming yeeterparker-A fun, fast paced romp that has the characters using their knowledge of the future to speedrun though obstacles while flipping the baddies off on the way. And not only are they able to turn some foes into friends, but troll Jim is back and he's here to stay. All the character interactions are so warm and caring, showing their strong bonds with each other in a way RotT wishes it did.

Atlas through the aftermath @atlasthroughtheaftermath-Jim went back in time, but from the very first morning in the past everything starts going wrong. The amulet was never supposed to choose Toby. Now Jim is forced to walk the line between truth and lies in order to use his knowledge of the future to ensure a better outcome. But as things drift further and further from the timeline he knows he finds himself adrift in uncharted waters. If you like fics that go into all the nitty gritty details with heartbreakingly realistic fight scenes and depictions of armor/sword fighting, this is the fic for you.

RotT fix its-Just like it says on the tin folks, fics that are complete rewrites of Rise of the Titans. But with better characterization, plot points that aren't hamfisted, no time travel retcon; and most importantly, no Steve mpreg.

Rise of the Titans-Secundo Ire @nickelwick-Part two in a series already containing a fabulous Wizards rewrite. Follows the same events of Rise of the Titans, only with the characters actually acting in character. But with the twist of someone else wielding Excalibur, and Jim going through a magical problem of his own. Not only do these changes make for a very interesting read but every character, even the minor ones, is well fleshed out and true to their established characters. All coming together to create an incredible franchise finale.

Fall of the Titans @purplerose244 This one's more a character study than anything else, but holy hell what a character study! This story goes through and analyzes each character's perspective and journey as they struggle against the titans, with plenty of Akiridion worldbuilding and a very interesting twist on the Arcane order's lore, and who gets Excalibur. Salty about how Jim-centric RotT was and the lack of compelling character arcs? Give this a read.

Tales of Arcadia: The Final Becoming @nikibogwater-Rather than focusing on Jim, the main arcs center on Douxie and Nari's relationship, but without sidelining any of the other characters. A rewrite that's short and sweet that never fails to deliver an epic finale with a satisfying conclusion.

The Eternal Day:Tales of Arcadia @rikalovesrice-An epic rewrite that really delivers on the promise to unite the worlds of trolls, aliens, and wizards. Along with some fascinating original lore and some killer redesigns of the Titans themselves (art on author's tumblr). Takes the bare bones of RotT and builds an incredible story on them. Brilliantly weaving the worlds of trolls, Akiridions, and wizards together all leading up to a final battle of epic magical proportions and a brave new world on the other side.

Entire series rewrites-Kind of a cheat category, which is why it's the largest, in that technically none of these fics are RotT rewrites. They're au takes on canon, and many of them were well in progress before RotT was released. Some haven't been updated in a while and some are on full blown hiatus, but they're all worth a read and all have been confirmed by the authors that they will be concluding differently than RotT does.

Becoming the Mask @magic-and-moonlit-wings-Possibly one of the most well known fics in the TOA fandom, and for darn good reason. Starts at the very beginning of Trollhunters with the premise, what if Jim was a changeling all along? Not a half-changeling or a sleeper agent, but a full blown self aware member of the Janus Order. An excellent highly detailed read, juggles a large cast of complex characters, and subtly addresses plot holes as they come along with care and attention.

What the Night Brings @blund3r-bust3r-When Jim has a chance encounter with a creature of the night he barely escapes with his life. Now less than human himself, he's introduced to a vast world below his feet full of danger and wonder, and sets churning gears that have been spinning for centuries. A wonderfully dark, fantastical au that stays true to a lot of existing TOA lore while still being very much its own story.

Sunshine through the Clouds aka shameless self promotion @rockymaidenvixen-Through events neither fated nor accidental, at five years old Jim Lake starts transforming into a troll with each sunset, and back into a human at sunrise. An ability both a gift and a curse that he carries with him through his childhood into adolescence. Changing nothing and everything once he's chosen as the Trollhunter (more about this au under the tag "sunshine au" on my blog).

Tulips of Time @avirxy-Starts with the events of Wizards, but with two major twists. Toby falls through the time rift with the rest of the gang, and Claire's the one with a shard of evil in her heart. Really this story does the trio's characters justice in a way Wizards wishes it did. The trio struggles to make their way in Camelot and find their way back to the future, but medieval Camelot is a harsh time for trolls and humans alike, with the line between good and evil getting blurrier by the day. And their greatest threat may just come from within.

A Brief Reliving of Troll Lore @i-am-gun-robot-This one's just getting started, and hasn't been updated in a long time, but is definitely worth a read. Did you enjoy Wizards but hate what it did for the overall TOA continuity? Then this is the fic for you. A very different take on Camelot of the past, with worldbuilding that can be dark, but is so very rich and nuanced.

Blue Moon Rising @tunafishprincess-On indefinate hiatus, but definitely worth a read. A half changeling Jim au with a dark twist. What if Jim was stolen from Barbara and found by the Janus order, and raised by the top changeling himself under the new name Atlas. Atlas though his fate was certain, but then on his first real mission a certain amulet calls a hauntingly familiar name.

Self Determination @appendingfic-A completed series rewrite that diverges from canon very early on. It starts with the premise, what if the Trollhunter was always human? Spinning out and crossing over with multiple other properties colliding on an epic scale. To say any more would spoil some of the truly earth shattering twists and turns this story has going for it. For those put off by all the crossovers this is a Tales of Arcadia story more than anything else, and you can still follow along and get fully immersed without knowing anything about the other properties tied into it.

You can check out my original TOA fanfic rec list here, and @feather-dancer has made several much more comprehensive fic rec lists all compiled here.

[ikayblythe]

a visual timeline of rain world's dated events, because it's 2 am and im autistic

Now, some important info. You will notice there are conventional dates in this visual; these are not canon but instead help us humans understand the ancients' ideas of time. A cycle is never given an explicit definition as a unit of time, so here we will equate the large number in the date, or the "cycle," to a typical Earth year. As for the decimals following that number, we will assume those function as typical decimals do.

So to demonstrate:

1543.067

Cycle or "year" 1543

0.067 of a year

0.067 × 365 = 24.455

approximately the 24-25th day of a year

Jan 24 (or 25) 1543

Again, these are not canon! They help make it easier for us to see the time between events.

And without further ado:

So, why is this important? I dont know honestly. But Ill share my takeaways because its my hyperfixation and Ill do what I want with it >:]

Unparalleled Innocence and Five Pebbles are the certified babies of the local group and likely are the same age-ish. My guess is that they had to have been around 50-70 cycles old when the Ascension happened. Babies!!

Sliver of Straw most definitely died before Five Pebbles came to be. Five Pebbles only learns about her secondhand through Seven Red Suns. He was not there to experience that event, which means the ancients were! Given that her methods remain unknown, the only ones who could've known how she died would be her citizens. However, that info shouldve spread. What likely happened? The ancients saw Sliver of Straw as a failure and decided to use Void Fluid anyway.

It is better to think of the iterator cans as "developments" or "neighborhoods" rather than cities, given how compact they are, and also how young they'd be compared to real-life metropolises! Meanwhile a neighborhood can appear and change drastically within a decade!

That being said, iterators can "live" a long time. Biocement already exists in real life, and the self-healing microbial colonies can remain dormant for around 200 years! However, water is one of the worst things for a building. These colonies will activate when a crack forms and exposes them to moisture. And since it's well...rain world: frequent erosion by rain and complete lack of maintenance severely reduces an iterator's lifespan as a structure.

Could the first generation of iterators be over 200 cycles old at the Ascension? Perhaps! But I think we severely underestimate the exponential rate of technological progress. Look at the last two centuries in our own world. Iterators in general have to be a lot younger than we think, as their infrastructure cannot last long.

So taking all of this into account...my estimate for the timeline of the whole game and not just the dated events? Can't be more than 400 cycles/years. The iterators are dying and theyre dying pretty damn fast. Id say even 400 is a generous number, as all of the "present" campaigns [Artificer to Rivulet] dont show much major change, save for the Rot. However again, that's speeding up Five Pebbles' decay.

Now Spearmaster seems surprisingly old. However it could be a result of them being artificial. But if that is indeed well within a slugcat's lifespan, that adds more credit to your shipping. Excluding Saint of course. Everyone is definitely dead by then.

All in all, I think we severely underestimate just how much can change within less than 400 years/cycles. Nature is very fast at reclamation, and in a world as volatile as Rain World? Even more so.

Anyway I someone out there has fun being a nerd like me Ive gotta go sleep for real now 🤙 lemme know your thoughts my brain needs stimulation

[thewertsearch]

Asks Comp 13/4

I think he's behind that door. The platform bears his symbol, and it's his final chance to show up in-game.

The best theory I have is that Bilious Slick is the god of Sgrub, and he only appears to a party of Players who have truly proven themselves. Given that Sgrub's endgame involves the creation of a universe, his role probably relates to this in some way.

Maybe he's the one who grants the Players the 'seed' - or whatever else is mechanically required to alchemize a universe.

The thought has occurred to me, too! I've been skimming some old posts while writing asks, and a couple of things have stood out to me.

We still don't know who the pen pal is. I'm still convinced he has something to do with Grandpa Harley, and my best guess is that he's someone who contains Grandpa as an alchemical component.

The session monitor in Skaianet's lab has a new meaning now. Every single one of those sessions could spawn a universe. And it's been implied that every planet with intelligent life will eventually spawn Sburb sessions. If you do the maths, it's clear that each universe should spawn billions of sessions. Just how many 'children' does each universe produce?

Ooh, yes, let's think about the implications of all this on my 'sonas!

If we assume that the kidsona was on comic-canon Earth, then she's in the universe created by the Zodiac trolls. The universe that she and the trollsona could create could be a completely new one!

...that is, if they create a universe at all. There's nothing saying you have to use that grist on a universe, and they might have other plans...

I was actually thinking about Tinkers when I made that post!

I read Worm a couple of years ago. In retrospect, it would also have made pretty good liveblogging material, although probably not quite as good as Homestuck. There's some great stuff in Worm, but a lot of what I really like about it doesn't show up until close to the end.

I initially assumed that the Psychic Double Reacharound was a contingency plan that she'd prepared earlier, since she couldn't possibly have come up with something so elaborate in the heat of the moment, while bleeding out on the ground.

But then I remembered she came up with the Sollux/Mind Honey plan seemingly on the spot, and now I'm not so sure. God damn, Vriska.

This is genuinely super flattering. I hope the inconsistency isn't too much of an issue - and, yes, I note the irony of saying this immediately after a four-month hiatus!

If was clear from early on that things in Homestuck weren't always what they seemed. Hell, sometimes they're not even what we're shown.

We have to assume some of what we're being told is true, or else we wouldn't have a story - but we always have to remember who's telling the story.

[Lol I love this fic. lots of **GIANT** spoilers tho, just because of the nature of the fic. For example, big ones starting at 16, 55 and 57 - C]

Recommended, and does apparently contain spoilers - but this is one I'm particularly looking forward to.

It's kind of a funny question, isn't it?

From Davesprite's perspective, he did change the future - his future. John died, but he 'changed things' - and now John's alive, even though he was dead 'before'.

But if you zoom out a little, you can see that this change was predetermined by the Alpha Timeline, which always depended on these events. Davesprite changed the first-order future - but the meta-future was always set in stone.

The Medium's timeline is so weird, isn't it? Its retroactive existence is difficult to puzzle out.

I don't think you could see the history of your Land by travelling back before you entered. All physical evidence of that history is there, but it's generated in a single instance when you Enter, and can't be accessed. It's analogous to read-only-memory.

After all, John, Rose and Dave are in the past with respect to LOJADE, but they're never going to see its 'history' - and Jade's Entry isn't going to insert it into the Medium retroactively. It won't have been 'there all along' when John was flying around earlier on his jetpack - it'll only ever have been there from Jade's Entry onwards.

As for getting into Earth's past, I think Karkat had it right, when he described the kids' original universe as 'a set of points to choose from'. You can't get into Earth's past by time-travelling around the Medium, but that doesn't really matter, since you can open portals into any point in its history, as long as you have the gear.

They're fascinating questions, aren't they?

Pre-Exile, she was the Tradition Wrangler - a Prospitian lawyer who struggled to interpret the Medium's archaic laws!

DD is a man of action, and I'm sure he approves of any Player who acts decisively themselves.

Plus, I'm sure he can emphasize with Aradia's situation. After all, it sucks to be bossed around by someone whose motivations make no goddamn sense half the time.

Common Terezi W.

True - she didn't need to hold her there for long. The laser pointer thing is a better analogy, blinding her almost instantly. I don't think it's any less fucked-up - it's more like a different flavor of fucked-up.

That's a pretty impressive robotics feat for Equius, actually. I wonder what Aradiabot is actually made of?

Tracing the source of alchemy gear is one of my favorite Homestuck 'minigames'.

Hivebent's art is fantastic! I really see why the comic blew up around this time. It's really coming into its own, stylistically. Of particular note is the art of Make Her Pay, and the art accompanying Aradia's final monologue. I can't wait to see more!

Gamzee is just too high to be rendered in a less symbolic manner.

Sollux is broken, and probably another mutant. The Sgrub trolls don't seem surprised by his level of power - but considering their circle includes other absurd espers like Aradia and Vriska, they probably aren't the best people to ask about what's normal.

Damn, I wish we could have seen more of Alternia. I know some of the spin-offs dig into this, but I hope we get more in canon, too.

Terezi's dream self is blind, because that's the version of herself she identifies most with. There's very little doubt in my mind that your dream self would reflect your self-perception in other ways, too. Skaia is clearly an ally - thank you, king.

You could imagine a Player whose dream self changes after they realize - or conversely, a Player whose dream self cracked their eggy loking thign. I'd be surprised if there weren't many fanfictions where this is a plot point - and depending on how things shake out in the comic itself, I'm not ruling it out.

In asking about magic, Kanaya really does start to sound like the young child that she is. It's easy to forget, but heartbreaking when you remember.

A few people have talked about this, so I added all of my 'immediate reaction' posts to the liveblog tag! I think it got them all - other than LOLCAT, which I missed and will add now - but if there are others, let me know!

I guess Matespritship isn't explicitly described in terms of romantic love. It's described as a close analogue of human romance, which is 'rooted in strongly positive emotions'. I've been assuming, based on that, that Red Romance is effectively interchangeable with the human concept of romantic love - but I suppose that's not necessarily the case.

I do think you're hitting on a very good point, here, too, which is that the quadrant system itself is described as something that trolls need. I think the 'need' for these categories is enforced, artificially, for the benefit of the Empire. It wouldn't be the first institution to pull something like this.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how the troll/human ships end up shaking out. It's going to be a challenge to merge their respective relationship frameworks. The best solution, of course, is for them to experience their own relationships without any cultural baggage, but I don't think I'm just speaking for myself when I say that that's easier said than done!

[airprime7]

I want to talk about the Prince of Doom

What is Doom?

Doom is mostly interpreted as death, destruction, general sadness and negative things. It’s the opposite of Life, right? So obviously it’s bad, because Life is good.

That’s sort of right.

Doom isn’t the language of death, it’s the language of endings. This is in part shown by the programming language ~ATH, which John, Karkat, and specifically Sollux are versed in.

~ATH is a language made of almost exclusively infinite loops which can only be escaped, and thereby activate an operation through the death of something, be it the user, the computer, or the Universe. But what’s not important is that something has died. As the saying (lyrics) goes “All who die come back again.” Death in Homestuck is never permanent. Double death, perhaps, but standard death? You’ve got dream selves, god tiers, dream bubbles, and Life players. No, death isn’t what’s important: an ending is. The end of something’s life, coinciding with the end of a loop. And with it, the beginning of something else.

Doom also relates to the Doomed timelines (although Mind and Time also have claim to their existences, and Light to a degree too). Doomed timelines represent and incorrect series of events or choices, which would cause paradoxes, breaking or ending a loop, much like in ~ATH. It’s also the end for everyone within the timeline: either they die, are erased for existence, and have to change to escape: Rose becoming memories passed onto her Alpha Dream Self, and Dave more obviously becoming a Sprite to avoid culling by Skaia. Both of these are an end leading to a new beginning.

So Doom is about endings. Sollux, the Mage of Doom, who knows passively about his aspect and suffers through it, has lots of endings. He dies before entering the game, symbolising the end of his life (and the beginning of a new one as his dream self), the end of Alternia’s relevance in the story (until 5 carapacians and a host of leprachauns arrive, beginning a completely different story) and the end of the trolls first mission of entering the Medium, which leads to the beginning of their journey to win the game. Later, he faces Eridan in a duel, and loses, bringing an end to their feud and an end to Sollux’s troubles with voices, and his Psionics. These are respectively replaced with Eridan and Kanaya’s conflict (although it is short lived), his new problems with bifurcation, and his blindness. What’s more, moments later both his love and his best friend die at the hands of Eridan. But for both of them, this end is but a new beginning, with Feferi taking her place in the dream bubbles, her creation of Life after Doom, and Kanaya gaining her Rainbow drinker abilities, a new beginning for her.

Mituna is our other canon Doom player, and he is the Heir of it, the one who passively changes, and becomes. I’m not that well versed in his story, but from what I remember, he sacrifices himself and his Psionics to stop some great threat to the A1 session, thus changing the ending to be Meenah's (the Thief of Life’s) instead (the sacrifice and loss of power also mirrors Sollux and the Ψiioniic’s, where they both expend their power and lives to send a meteor or ship at great speeds through space to where they need to be). In turn, he's also become "Doom", in this case taking on the form of negativity (which still applies to it). He's outwardly mean, offensive, and aggressive toward Meenah, and presumably the other trolls too. The only exceptions to this are Latula, his matesprit, who as the Knight of Mind would perhaps be able to interpret his inner thoughts, and Cronus, who… well Mituna still was rude to him, but let’s say Cronus was worse.

So that’s it for Doom, at least canonically. What about the Prince?

The Prince is a class we have a lot of information on, thanks to Calliope’s analysis on it. It’s framed as the active destroyer of things, who destroys their aspect primarily in themself, or occasionally others for personal gain (although this latter ability fits better with the passive counterpart, the Bard, destroyer through the aspect or within others for benefit of other, in Gamzee’s case benefit of Lord English).

Dirk, Prince of Heart, destroys his romantic prospects with Jake, and his own Heart, in this case taking on the meaning of “Soul” by splintering himself: into Hal; across both his Dream and Real selves simultaneously; into Brain Ghost Dirk; and more, such as Lil Cal being both Lord English, Doc Scratch, and Lord Jack. And furthermore, he’s cold and calculating (or tries to be), tenets of Mind, the opposite of Heart, as Princes tend to invert their aspects.

Eridan, the Prince of Hope, destroys his own Hope for the future by messing up his relationships with Feferi and Vriska, literally destroys the Angels on his land, who are personifications of Hope, and begins Murderstuck (yes I know Vriska did it first, but she only set Terezi into action, whereas Eridan caused a butterfly effect leading to his, Equius, Nepeta and Sollux’s deaths through Karkat and Kanaya’s actions, other than the ones he directly killed) through the murder of arguably the most positive troll, and the HOPESPLOSION of the Matriorb, Kanaya’s Hope for revitalising the troll species. Later, Erisol also contributes to the death of Fefeta, once again a positive ray of Hope in a dark session, although he was helped by another Prince: AR, Prince of Heart, ripping apart two souls in one sprite.

Finally, Kurloz, the Prince of Rage. I can’t say much on him, but I interpret him as destroying his own Rage, his own strong emotions, by limiting the effect he can have directly on other people through the sewing up of his mouth. He also may have has something to do with Mituna’s Rage and anger, although to me that fits more to perhaps a Maid’s role, creating Rage in others.

So, what happens if you put these two together? Well, a Prince of Doom would be one who actively is capable of destroying their own Doom. On the surface level, there’s one clear interpretation of this: Immortality. But hang on, really? Surely immortality is a concept applied to every character, conditionally of course, once they ascend to God Tier. Well, yes, but that’s not what this means. For one, God Tiers can still die. They can be cut, they bleed, they die, and then they come back. The end leads to a new beginning. But a Prince of Doom? They have no end. They destroy their own doom, any danger to them, anything that could harm them, simply doesn’t work. Perhaps any death they would befall as a God Tier (other than one Heroic or Just, as those rules must still stand) simply has no effect at all. No revival is needed if you never died, a forever Life, inverting their aspect like a true Prince.

But also there’s another meaning. Immortality has a double meaning, as my Monster Manual can tell me. Forgive the slight detour:

The Marid poured out of the flask like water and said, ‘Your wish is my command.’ The Halfling, overjoyed, wished for immortality, so the Marid polymorphed him into a fish that flopped around humorously until, finally, it expired. It’s a cautionary tale that has survived the ages, so I suppose the halfling got his wish.” - Kesto Brighteyes, Gnome proprietor of the Parted Veil, a bookshop in Sigil

This story doesn’t speak of literal Immortality, like the halfling wanted, but rather narrative Immortality. The story lives on forevermore. So a Prince of Doom’s story could, perhaps, never end. Even after their passing, “The legend will never die!” to quote Puss in Boots. So a Prince of Doom tells a good story. Maybe not even one they’re the main character of (they’re no Light player, they don’t need the spotlight), but one that lives on because of them.

(Oh, by the way, screw gendered classing, a Prince can be any gender.)

Finally, there’s one last interpretation I can think of for the Prince of Doom. We’ve discussed their physical ability, their narrative position, but what of their self? The character of one who destroys their own ending? Simple: they don’t grown up. Sburb is about change and grown, death of the old self and becoming the new one. Some take to this well, but for someone who’s self can’t die, can’t end? They’re stuck, like Caliborn was. Now this isn’t certainly a bad thing. Doom players are often the most serious of the group, next to Time and Space, the same with Princes, so the Prince of Doom knows to be serious when it’s needed. But generally? They’re having the time of their life. They’re a child, mostly in a good way, full of Life (see that Princely inversion) and colour. It may make their quest harder; the point would have a difficult time getting through to them; but in the end a Prince of Doom is who they are, basically forever. Some may take that as a sign of immaturity, some conviction. It’s up to the author of the story to decide which their Prince takes on.

I wrote this for the @413countdown, and you’ll notice I’m a day late. Whoops. Anyway, it was really fun to take a detailed dive into a classpect. I may consider doing others at another time, but this was good for now. If anyone has any other differing interpretations of a Prince of Doom, that’s perfectly fine. That doesn’t make them or me wrong, because Sburb is a game with thousands of possible variations. Not every Heir of Breath will work like John Egbert, and not every Dave Strider is a Knight of Time!

Anyway, I don’t know how to end this.

[actualbird]

hiii, first off im gonna say I love your fics, and I love your analysis of all the NXX boys, it rlly made me wanna learn more about the non-luke characters lol. (plus that one fic of yours that was omega luke going into heat permanently lives inside my head)

I just wanted to say abt the ask that wonders if Rosa knows Luke's illness is chronic - he tells her explicitly that the doctors have told him he has less than three years of life left in story 3 of under the milky way. it's right at the start of story 3, in the letter he sends rosa.

which also leads me to a question about the canonicity? canon-ness? canonnity? of the cards. I'm sorry if I'm just completely out of the loop, I dropped ToT for a bit before coming back and I have a terrible memory. but are all the events in these cards canon? because like the asker said, it rlly would change the dynamic if Rosa thought the illness was just chronic. (also I forgot if he mentioned the 3 year thing elsewhere). post-utmw Rosa knows he only has 3 years left but does regular rosa know?

I think I'm just incoherent and I'm sorry for the long ask haha it was rlly rambly but yeah that's basically what I wanted to ask.

hi anon!! first off oh gosh, thank you for your kind words!!

im so glad you like both my analyses and my fics (especially the omega luke fic gosh, it’s been so long since then, i almost forgot i wrote that HAHA)

now in regards to that ask youre mentioning, i fear there mightve been a misunderstanding! cuz in that ask, we were pertaining to the mc that exists within the Main Story Route. whereas the mc youre describing is the mc that exists within the Luke Personal Story route. forgive me if i misunderstood but to explain, eventually, main story and personal story (aka where all the respective cards, respective personal stories, and probably even the team events in a wibbly wobbly timey wimey way, exist in) diverges

to better visualize this, ive made a chart. but you caught me at a time i was doodling and had my drawing tablet plugged in so we’re all getting a taste of my bad handwriting

so if you look at this, you'll first notice how i forgot the number 6 in main story and then rushed to squeeze it in. but more importantly this is what i mean by diverging

based on what i remember, im pretty sure (....okay semi-pretty sure) that for all of the boys, main stories 1-5 has happened. this is because cards will mention dangerous/busy work (nxx work) and thus mc must be part of the team first for that work to happen. main stories 1-5 also must have happened because thats how she meets/works with (or re-meets, in luke's case) all of the boys one by one. after which, the personal story routes (along with all the cards) happens in a divergent timeline

there are some caveats tho. very very early cards of luke (and for this ask i will focus on luke's divergent personal story route timeline, just for simplicities sake.....should i abbreviate too? Luke's DPSRT = divergent personal story route timeline. Luke's MSRT = main story route timeline. perfect. that totally makes things less confusing!) mention mc not yet knowing where luke was during his 8 year disappearance, meaning that those cards MUST have happened BEFORE main story 5, when he tells the truth about where he went

barring little bits like those though, this divergence generally stands. the biggest proof of the divergence showed up in main story 9 because at that point, mc in Luke's DPRST already Knew about luke's illness. but mc in Luke's MSRT does not, and does not know as much as of the details as well.

another smaller proof that Luke's DPRST and Luke's MSRT are divergent is aaron. in Luke's DPRST, mc meets aaron for the very first time in bloom chapter personal story 4. but in Luke's MSRT, mc meets aaron for the first time in main story 9.

now on canonicity? my answer is yes

on like, everything.

barring the AU cards (like sott and gufeng cards, yknow), everything in all timelines is canon. just NOT at the same time. you can only choose one and---

oh my god wAIT THIS RESPONSE IS ONE I CAN USE TO ANSWER ANOTHER ASK IN MY INBOX, SIT TIGHT ANON 1

CUZ I GOT THIS ASK A FEW DAYS AGO FROM AN ANON I WILL CALL ANON 2:

and my answer to anon 2 over here is

i think the prologue is a dream sequence or some kind of metaphor or some kind of fever dream, yeah, but one that takes place in the Main Story Route Timeline specifically. and that something went wrong. terribly wrong, though idk what yet exactly.

the reason i think this happens in the MSRT in particular is cuz of 1) it's a prologue to main story in particular, i feel + 2) because of what we call "pulls" in this game: we use a Tear (of themis) to receive a pull of a card, which are called Visions.

all the cards of happier romances take place in divergent timelines, and these are visions because maybe it is MSRT mc who is having visions of these different possibilities that couldve happened, if only she werent in this timeline she chose, in the main story timeline where so many horrible things happen.

.....i feel as if ive said the word "timeline" way too many times to be making sense now, but theres my answers, anon 1 and anon 2!!

i hope something in here was useful and/or interesting ;w;

[pumpkinsouppe]

An Analysis on Ganondorf's Ear Change

This a repost to format it a little better and add images in the sections. It's a bit of a long read but I hope you enjoy!

(Also spoiler warning for the Zelda games, I broke it up into sections so you can skip certain game analyses. However, each theory builds upon and references each previous section so there is spoiler bleed throughout the analysis.)

The first mention of Ganon being human was in A Link to the Past, however, we were only shown his beast form. This is true for all of the games from the “hero perishes” timeline. He is never depicted as human and there is only mentions in certain games of his human form. The Oracle games being another major example where Twinrova tried to resurrect the human version of their surrogate son, but failed and just resurrected the body of the beast who has lost his mind. However, while looking for images, I found scrapped concept art of human Ganondorf for the Oracle Games. He is depicted with round ears but this is no surprise as the Oracle games took a lot of inspiration from Ocarina and Majora's. But as it stands, there is no canonical human depiction of Ganondorf in the perishes timeline.

(Image 1 is official artwork of beast Ganon from A Link to the Past and Image 2 is scrapped concept art of Human Ganondorf with round ears for the Oracle Games.)

Ocarina of Time

The first appearance of Ganondorf as a human was in Ocarina of Time. This game established that not only do all Gerudo have round ears, but Hylians specifically have pointed ears to hear the prayers of Hylia. Also, Gerudo will search around Hyrule to marry Hylian men and the offspring will be full Gerudo.

Ocarina of Time is also where the first discrepancy appears. In the original game, after the 7 year time skip, Ganondorf has changed. Canonically he has grown his hair and gotten older, but the issue is that his ears have grown into a point. There is concept art of Ganondorf becoming half beast-like after the time skip, most notably having hooves, horns, AND longer ears. HOWEVER, the official art of the game (aka the canonical art depictions) show Ganondorf with no ear change at all. This art contradicts the 3D model. Perhaps the modelers wanted to emphasize the change Ganondorf went through, and his ears were a reflection of either his beast nature or that harboring the triforce for so long changed his appearance to represent his connection to Hylia.

There’s a lot I can get into about the Triforce and the end of OOT but I’ll try to keep this simple. At the end of OOT, Link still possesses the triforce of courage when talking to Zelda. He could have returned it before Majora’s Mask, it could’ve been split after this scene, who knows. What’s important is that Link returns with the triforce. This could mean 2 things. There are now two instances of the Triforce of Courage in the past, one with Link and one in the Temple of Time. Or, because the triforce was already split in the story, the triforce is still split when Link returns, even though Link had returned before that event took place previously. The triforce could still be split in this new past without anyone’s knowledge as they never open up the Temple of Time to check. Thus lying dormant in their hosts bodies. I will continue this theory under the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess sections.

This isn’t the end of the Ocarina of Time information, though. Years later, they completely remade the game for the 3DS, including building all of the characters from new. The developers specifically referenced official game art, which means that Ganondorf in the game never had the ear change. His 3DS ears do get as slightly narrower but they are not pointed nor elongated like the N64 models. We can then assume that the ear change is non-canonical in Ocarina of Time and was more just a fluke on the model. BUT, that leaves major questions for Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, where Ganondorf’s ears are canonically pointed, even though they are both the exact same Ganondorf from Ocarina. You’d think his change in the 7 year gap would have been the easiest explanation.

(Image 1 is the past and future comparison of Ganondorf's 3D model from the original game. Image 2 is official artwork of Ganondorf after his appearance change, he has rounded ears)

(Both images are from the remake Ocarina 3D. Image 1 is from the past and image 2 is from the future. Both have round ears although the future's ears are slightly thinner.)

(Image 1 is of a Gerudo thief and Image 2 is of Anju, a Hylian. The Gerudo has rounded ears and only appear slightly pointed due to limited polygon modeling. Anju is used to show how long the ears are supposed to be.)

Wind Waker

Wind Waker is the next canonical human appearance of Ganondorf. And I will admit I have not played all of Wind Waker so I am not completely familiar with his change of personality. However, this change has formed a couple theories. First, Wind Waker takes place on the “Hero stays an adult timeline” which is where the 7 sages sealed Ganon in the spirit realm where Rauru watched over him. Years later Ganon was able to break free and it led to Wind Waker. Every depiction of Ganon has him with pointed ears. The official art, the 3D model, and the concept art. This was a very intentional change, but there’s also no way to compare this change to the Gerudos since they aren’t present. Also to mention, Wind Waker has the biggest stylistic change of any Zelda game, so this choice could have been to keep with the style as the Rito also have pointed ears. In terms of theories, one of the bigger theories for how Ganon was able to escape was that he merged with Rauru in the spirit realm. Ganon’s appearance has had the biggest notable change since Ocarina of Time and his appearance is very similar to Rauru’s. This could be the possible reason why Ganon has pointed ears in Wind Waker.

(Image 1 is the official Gamecube model of Ganon and image 2 is his concept art, both feature pointed ears)

Added note: once again looking through images, there is one single depiction of a Gerudo in Wind Waker. This is a stained glass depiction of Nabooru. She has kept her round ears from Ocarina. This indicates this was not a global change on the Gerudo but rather a specific change towards Ganondorf. Wind Waker is about Ganondorf trying to regain the Triforce of power (which if I understand the summary correctly, it was just sealed from Ganondorf and not actually removed) so the Ocarina dormant Triforce theory does apply. Holding the piece of the triforce dormant for so long has physically changed him to appear like Hylians due to the connection to Hylia. This would align with the WW developers possibly taking inspiration from Ocarina's model change. Or, as I will delve a little more into later, it's purely a stylistic choice to depict corruption. Although we have no Wind Waker era Gerudo to analyze, what we can at least be assured is this change was not a retcon to completely change how Gerudo are depicted. Gerudo in Ocarina of Time are canonically depicted with round ears.

(Image is a stained glass depiction of Nabooru featuring her round ears.)

Twilight Princess

Twilight Princess was the next and last depiction of human Ganondorf up until the reveal of corpse Ganon. (Hyrule Warriors isn’t canon so I won’t be delving into it). Gandorf in Twilight Princess also has pointed ears. Not just after living in the Twilight Realm, but also before his execution. Again, this Ganondorf is the exact same as the one in Ocarina of Time, but from the “Child Timeline.��� In this timeline, Ganondorf never became a beast and the kingdom of Hyrule fell into war with the Gerudos against the Hylians (or at least that’s what’s rumored). So even if the Ocarina ear change was canon, that would only affect the Wind Waker Ganon, not Twilight Princess. Here’s the thing about Twilight Princess, you cannot argue that this is purely a stylistic change. We can even see this at the beginning of the game, all of the Ordonian’s have round ears. Link is the only Hylian and the only one with pointed ears in that village. AND if you look at old concept art, most of the art has Ganondorf with round ears!! Y’all T-T I’ve looked at too many pictures of Ganon’s ears my god. There are no Gerudos in Twilight Princess either so again there is no direct comparison we can make. There was clear intention to depict Ganondorf with pointed ears and there was definitely discussion about it among the developers, but their reasoning for this change can only be theorized. Some of the theories about why his ears are pointed stems back to the harboring the triforce theory I mentioned in under Ocarina of Time.

If we were to continue thinking the triforce had permanently split despite going back to the past, perhaps the triforce pieces lie dormant in Zelda and Ganondorf without their knowledge and that’s what leads into Twilight Princess. Maybe the dormant piece inside Ganondorf changed his appearance as he holds a vital connection to Hylia, thus making his ears pointed.

Another theory could even possibly be that after the Hylian-Gerudo war (which again is still a speculative event), the Hylians could’ve forced conversion on the Gerudo. Maybe they felt ashamed of their connection to the Demon King and started to also worship Hylia, thus leading to pointed ears we never get to see (this also is part of the BOTW explanation). But would this change take place instantaneously or over many generations? Even if it were instantaneous, I highly doubt that Ganondorf would also start to worship Hylia. So why would his ears change? Over many generations doesn’t make any sense either because Ganondorf is one man who just lives forever and is constantly resurrected, he has no descendants he is reborn into like Zelda and Link. TP is the one that confuses me the most but perhaps the most logical explanation is that is just a reflection of the change in Wind Waker. Perhaps the ears make him look more devious so they kept the change. And I wouldn’t even be making this essay if this change was CONSISTENT. WHY DID THEY GO BACK TO ROUND EARS. I’m getting ahead of myself.

So I mentioned before that they completely remade Ocarina of Time. They solidified that his round ears are what is canonical. Nintendo also remastered (different than remake) Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. This means they took the old game and improved the graphics and visuals, using the exact same models they did in the past. But if they wanted to retcon the idea of pointed ear Ganon, that would’ve been the time to do so. But they didn’t. And then they made the Gerudo in BOTW have pointed ears. So it seems like they wanted to stick to their guns about this being a canonical change. But again, why are his ears rounded?

(Image 1 is Ganondorf's TP 3D model with pointed ears and Image 2 is early concept art with round ears)

Breath of the Wild

Breath of the Wild definitely brings up more mysteries but also has some of the more satisfying answers. The biggest reason why Ganondorf’s ears are a big mystery is because the Gerudos ears DO change but corpse Ganon’s DO NOT. How did this change come about? This explanation might be the one that makes the most sense but will contradict the designs of Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. So like I mentioned before, every iteration of Ganondorf has been the same Ganondorf. Link and Zelda are NOT the same Link and Zelda from the past. We don’t exactly know how long in between 10k years ago and Ocarina was, all of it is lost to history, but we also don’t know the fate of Ganon between his final appearance in each timeline and 10k years ago. (These games being Zelda II, 4 Sword Adventures, and WW). However, what we can safely assume is corpse Ganon is the same as Ocarina Ganon. We have not seen any prior instance of rebirth, just resurrection, so this is not a new person. We can just assume that perhaps Ganondorf in TP and WW were just stylistic choices and he has always had round ears. Personally, if we go down this path, I am then much more curious about how Ganon was able to return to his human self after multiple failed beast resurrections in the fallen hero timeline. But that’s not what this post is about lmao.

If we go back to the BOTW Gerudos, there are two plausible theories that can work simultaneously. One is that because there has been no male Gerudo in over 10k years and the Gerudo women having to date Hylian men, there’s bound to be evolutionary change. Even though the Gerudo gene will always dominate, maybe 10k years was the amount of time to slowly transform how the Gerudo look. The other theory is that sometime during the 10k year span, the Gerudo worshipped Hylia (similar to the TP theory). The only Gerudo by name who faithfully followed Ganon through the years was Twinrova. Even in Ocarina of Time there were already dissenters such as Nabooru who were punished for going against the king (aka the Iron Knuckle treatment). But maybe this shame that the Gerudos, like Nabooru, felt was what the future Gerudo felt after the first calamity. They pledged their faith to Hylia to show how they weren’t sided with Ganon, and thus their ears grew. And 10k years is a LONG time. We know that if the Gerudo did follow Hylia, it didn’t last forever as there was a huge emphasis on faith involving the unknown 7 heroines. The player knows these represent the 7 sages but the Gerudo all believe they are 7 warrior Gerudo, so this faith from BOTW could have stemmed from Hylia and was lost in history. To add, the hidden Goddess Statue in Gerudo Town could also allude to this former faith conversion. So in this sense it would make sense for the Gerudo to change and not Ganondorf. He’s one man and not the product of 10k years of different generations, thus retaining his appearance from Ocarina of Time.

(Image is of a Gerudo Woman in BOTW. She has very prominent pointed ears.)

Tears of the Kingdom

And this all leads to Tears of the Kingdom. But also we have no idea what happened 10k years ago. That’s for us to discover in the game. I want to start by looking at corpse Ganon’s appearance as a whole. He's not just adorned in Gerudo clothing, but the garments themselves look expensive and regal. You could argue Ganon’s clothes from the previous games also have this description but there is one major difference, he is not wearing armor. He is wearing robes and adorned with golden jewelry, something you’d see a high priest or priestess wear, not a domineering, war-bound king. Ganon is the king of thieves and pirates and soldiers, it is only natural he dons armor and fight. But why is he so unprotected? What changed Ganondorf and what led him to such a terrible fate? The only thing we can possibly connect this to is Link’s long hair and robes, but we are also in the dark about that. Even if you were to compare this style of dress to the chitons and tunics of the ancient Mediterranean, it’s not like the soldiers just didn’t wear armor. What could have possibly happened post Zelda II/4SA/WW that led to such a change in fashion and ornamentation?

But Ganon’s clothing isn’t the only thing to analyze. There’s also the green hand piercing his stomach lol. The particular location of the hand is important because it is the exact spot that that Ganondorf from Twilight Princess was stabbed at during his execution and where Link pierced Ganon with the Master Sword to defeat him. It is very plausible that corpse Ganon is the same as Twilight Princess Ganon as many other theorists have compared the TOTK trailers to the Twili. But if it is Twilight Ganon, why are his ears round omfg T_T I cannot with these discrepancies. Honestly the Wind Waker change doesn’t even bother me it’s all Twilight Princess.

Another feature to note is Ganondorf's long hair. It's interesting to note that the only time Ganon grew out his hair was in Ocarina of Time and Hyrule Warriors. I haven’t played HW and again it isn’t canon so I don’t have much to say about it but it’s curious that that’s the aspect they chose to keep for corpse Ganon. The long hair, at least in Ocarina of Time, represents his physical change to evil. A physical representation of his desire for power. But if you strictly analyze the way corpse Ganon appears combined with his silhouette (so not how his eyes turn red and evil lmao), he doesn’t seem like he’s a demon lord corrupted by power. He would be wearing heavy armor, not precious jewelry and robes. I guess the biggest indicator are his sharp canines, similar to Wind Waker. The silhouette is what really gets me. If you are divorced from any context of who Ganondorf is, that shadow looks like a man, perhaps even a tragic hero, moments before he is defeated. He is strong and proud, sure, but nothing indicates evil. He is just a man screaming in agony.

This is what I believe is the key to keeping Ganon’s ears round. Perhaps like the hair in OOT, his pointed ears were just a physical representation of Ganon’s corruption. And this is where you have to examine Ganon’s design not under a lens of canonical change but stylistic representation. Although pointed ears could represent something benevolent and ethereal such as elves or fairies, they have also been used to denote things that are sinister or corrupted. (And there is a whole history about this rooted in anti-semitism similar to Ganon also possessing a large nose. Considering TLOZ is based on Western Fantasy, it is not surprising to see Western tropes and designs to also be used, good or bad. However, I am not qualified to speak thoroughly on this but I did want to make an important note about how certain body parts are perceived in media). So if we take the design of Ganondorf in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, we can say that the ear change was to denote Ganon’s corruption post-Ocarina. Despite being defeated and exposed, he did not give up and let that hatred fester. So if we use this to also analyze corpse Ganon, along with my points in the previous paragraph, was Ganon from 10,000 years ago truly evil? Was he really Demise incarnate or someone who was able to, or trying to, divorce himself from this evil? And who knows, this scene could even depict a self sacrifice. A man cursed with an evil spirit, repenting for his sins by sacrificing himself for the good of Hyrule for 10,000 years.

Back during the development of Ocarina of Time, the script director Toru Osawa mentioned that despite being pure evil, Ganon had redeemable traits. Perhaps Tears of the Kingdom is revisiting this. Who would Ganondorf truly have been if he weren't possessed by Demise? Is there anything in Ganondorf even worth saving at this point? All we can do is patiently wait for this answer.

(Both images are of Corpse Ganon from the 2019 TOTK trailer. Image 1 is a close up on Ganondorf's face which shows his rounded ears, pointed teeth, and jewelry. Image 2 is zoomed out showing Ganondorf's hair, robes, and the arm stabbing his chest.)

(The image is also from the 2019 trailer and shows Ganondorf's silhouette moments before the hand grabs his chest. He appears full bodied and possibly around 30-40 years old.)

Skyward Sword (ish)

Personally if there was a canonical change (not just stylistic), I feel like the best explanation would’ve been tied to Demise. The more Ganondorf becomes consumed by his hatred and power, the more he starts to resemble Demise. But this can’t be the case because guess what. DEMISE HAS ROUND EARS FNDJKSFL. I know there was no foresight when making the earlier games, but I’m gonna be honest if there was one time to use pointed ears for any of these designs, it should’ve been for Demise. That would also make it interesting if you also considered that 10k years ago Ganondorf was able to go back to looking like a Gerudo from Ocarina. He was trying to divorce himself from Demise. Or perhaps the return to round ears IS the corruption of Demise. Although I see corpse/silhouette Ganon lacking evil, his appearance could instead be indicative of something very prideful or arrogant. The evil King of the Gerudos, so proud of his abilities that he doesn’t even need armor, just exquisite jewelry to denote rank. I find this theory unlikely but I wanted to hit every target I could think of.

(Image is of Demise with round ears)

Conclusion

A lot of these changes definitely came about from changes in art directions. Who knows if the creators of this franchise ever predicted they would create something as monumental as Breath of the Wild, they sure as hell didn't even plan on a sequel. I know a lot of fans, including myself, are very excited to see more of Ganondorf and what happened 10,000 years ago. Many have already been theorizing about good-natured Ganon since the 2019 trailer. It's very interesting having an analysis among all previous designs that leads to the same conclusion based simply on how his ears are designed. I don't expect any explicit reveal for his design either but I am definitely excited for the creation of TOTK book that details all the concept art of this game!

I also don’t want any of this information about corpse Ganondorf to be revealed in a trailer. I hope each new trailer remains incredibly cryptic and mysterious because finding out for yourself in game which theories are correct and so incredibly wrong is the fun of it all. It’s fun to speculate and do research about niche topics because they could be actually significant or I just spent hours talking about a character’s ears for no reason LMFAO. I am so excited to see what the game has in store for us :)!!

Tysm for reading and now I hope you are just as haunted by Ganon's ears as I am lol

Lastly it’s important to show your sources lmao. The concept art and information of Ganondorf came from Hyrule Historia. I also referenced the “What Ganon’s Ears Hint at in BOTW 2 (Zelda Theory)” by Bandit Games. I also found old threads from Zelda Dungeon from 2008. Images from Zelda Wiki. 3D modeled images from The Models Resources.

2/14/2023

[herbruh]

I hesitated whether to post this idea here or not, but here goes nothing I guess. And I'm very sorry if someone already had the same/similar idea, I'm quite new to the magoverse and I don't know all the Magolors yet (And I tried to search. So if someone already has something like this, let me know)

I present to you: The butterfly effect au! The name is a bit misleading I know, because butterflies in Kirby mean… something completely different. But what I meant was the actual butterfly effect; one change in the past and a lot can change.

General idea (under the cut):

Everything is going almost as it was, so still the RTDLD stuff and Magolor's epilogue doesn't change. Until after the kirby clash. Magolor got money for a theme park and went back to the original dimension to put it there and great. But Kirby and Team weren't mad at him or anything when they were visiting him at the theme park. At that time he didn't care - maybe they already forgotten. However, after a while it started to annoy him a bit, because even Meta wasn't angry. So one time he asked why they weren't mad at him and the general reaction was "Huh? Why should we be mad, we offered to help you find parts for Lor ourselves" (this is the first slight change that affects events). And that was also the moment Magolor realized that he had gone back in time when Kirby was looking for energy spheres and parts (he generally went back in time when he got out of the place that was in the epilogue, but he had no way of recognizing it then). So now he has a choice; whether to try to stop himself from the master crown thing, or to let events go as they should. Meanwhile, the Magolor of that time (Force) has no idea of his other self (Time). Yet. I will still develop this idea ofc, so for now only in general - later I will add things (like, how it would go)

Briefly about 'Time Magolor':

Based on the shopee outfit! (because I love it) With Kirby and the team, he has a manager outfit, but otherwise he has this one. He changed his shopee outfit a bit to refer to his old self and the fact that he went back in time, but at the same time to distinguish himself from the other him

He has an apple-heart pin because yes

Briefly about 'Force Magolor':

I haven't changed his design that much from the original magolor, because for now he is pretty much like in RTDLD. I only add small things, like one color form his second-form, or marks on the ears based on that too

And he has traces of burning a bit, because of the fight with Landia

This design might change in the future, but for now it's like this

And he is more angry and more obsessed with gaining power than normal magolor

(And the name 'butterfly effect' came from the fact that normally it would be just like in an RTDLD; theme park appears at the beginning of the game with a magolor from the past, and then the game is happening, the magolor of that time steals the Master Crown et cetera. But a slight change in the course of events in this timeline was that Magolor became curious why they weren't angry at him. Normally he never asks - like in the game. A lot here is some of my hc because from the beginning I thought time travel was mixed up in the canon, and I put it here because it's au.)

[deafchild2000]

Something just occurred to me: so there's a likely possibility that the planetary alignments the 2000s Mermaids endured happened as well with the 50s Mermaids (minus the Comet Eva event, that's a bit different).

Now, obviously, we have no proof of that, but given since a majority of canon believes in the timeline that Gracie, Louise and Julia turned in 1955 and - upon Gracie giving up her tail - everything ended in 1957, that would imply that the planetary alignment responsible for weather powers happened in 1957 and the 50s mermaids received them (fair enough that it's not exactly 50 years apart since the 2000s mermaids turned in 2006 and got upgraded in 2007).

With that thought, it had me wondering about the group. It would be fair to imply that maybe Louise and Co. could've managed to avoid getting upgraded powers during their second year as mermaids. Cause let's be honest: The original powers are powerful but basic & controllable once mastered. With @juicenet's fanfiction giving me some inspiration, it's possible. But it also brings in some interesting ideas.

Gracie goes first. We don't know about her family life - as an only child or an older sibling like Cleo & Emma - but two sides of the narrative can be true. She may have not initially liked being a mermaid at first but she did slowly come to appreciate it for what it was. She was a mermaid for three years, between films and photos, she must have come to a reluctant acceptance. But let's imagine Gracie got her powers upgraded. She's turned into a mermaid unsuspectedly, she has to be careful around water and that includes any activities that her family may want to do, which follows by slowly distancing herself from them. The powers might have freaked her out, and even with her two best friends to share her burdens with, she's reluctant to use them and it's maybe weeks or months before she's come to accept her tail and powers. She can sprout a tail and control water - that's it, right? (Props too if she gets the locket around this time). Then comes along a Full Moon and she gets taken with it and the next day, she comes to find out she can control the air too (and given she's called a "free spirit", the discovery could've been unexpected - meant to control water but got air instead - or emotionally driven). So suddenly, this girl who's had a drastic, lifetime change that she had to adjust and grow into now has to deal with another magical power she needs to master and discover the difference between. Then, we can imagine the downfall that led to her choosing to give up her tail. Unlike her granddaughter and Cleo, she possibly hasn't managed to control & differentiate her two powers, then Max starts becoming intrusive with his experiments - following Lewis in S2 - and who knows if her relationship with her family got worse. It would be a telling narrative if Gracie's growing distance was due to feeling isolated and growing away from the group of friends she could turn to. Being a mermaid was just becoming too much and a major inconvenience for her. Once she gave up her tail, she may have missed her friendship and still thought about her past - otherwise, she wouldn't have told stories & left artwork for Charlotte - but because she made her choice, she was able to live without the restraint brought upon with being a mermaid.

Julia is someone whose life isn't explored compared to Louise and Gracie. But working with that, if she did have events mirrored Rikki in S1 - after the Pier incident, if she indeed tried to boil him alive or destroy his property - moonstruck or not - I can see it. Ammunition for Louise to not be completely wrong for seeing Rikki in Julia. Even with the proof destroyed, Karl knew the Secret was bound to come back on her and her friends at some point. Now, let's say she got Pyrokinesis and Electrokinesis the next year. Did she discover her new powers when she simply intended to use her basic heating abilities or was it in emotional turmoil? What was her personal & family life like at that point? Did she struggle controlling her powers or did she manage to grasp them in time?

Louise Chatham is the last remaining of the 50s Mermaids. The first to meet the next generation of mermaids as well as the last one alive. She's the one who tells the story of her friends becoming mermaids and starts the reunification of the lockets Max made for them. Without knowing much of her personal history, Louise did move on & marry yet didn't leave a legacy like Gracie. Yet, she was somehow aware that a new group of mermaids had formed and where to find them, coming off as a mystique guide and using her past - a time she never truly gained closure from - to ensure the mistakes of before didn't befall Emma, Cleo, and Rikki. Like the collective, it's agreed that she had the basic ice powers as well as saved someone from drowning, making her an effective counterpart to Emma. And yet, there's the ever-present mystery of how she gave up being a mermaid & when it happened. So let's take cues from Emma, say Louise had a perfectly, full family unit. Was she the first to discover her powers or the last? Did she discover her powers by accident or was she quick to guess? Was she competitive or was she easy-going? Is there a reason she doesn't trust ocean perch that might relate to her time as a mermaid? Was she straight or a closet lesbian like the fandom seems to think? She'd been a mermaid for two years, and likely was the most accepting of her powers, so what must it have been like in 1957 to receive Cryokinesis? Was it the most convenient power or was it harder to control?

With these three possibilities to consider, with the Moon of Fifty Years right around the corner, I think there's still more to illustrate regarding the personal lives of the 50s Mermaids.

(Whether Louise and Julia were in love is openly subjective or whether liberties were taken and Gracie perhaps wasn't the only one to gain from giving up her tail - a narrative will always have more to tell if you just look.)

[khaleesiofalicante]

hi dont mind me , i am writing this just after reading the chapter and with swollen eyes with how much i cried for other max, fuck this is worse than the last two chapters, i havent cried this much ever. you have such a brilliant mind i love it.

also i loved magnus in this chapter as well. as well as rafe it seems so much easier to understand them once you see the consequence of lucifer. also

also wtf was wrong with alec, like pointing an arrow is one thing but shooting a version of your kid, wow wasnt max supposed to be his fav technically like a bit biased not saying fav fav. i mean i get it, rafe is his kid of that timeline who is being threatened but shooting max was a bit too much for me from alec. i get it they dont completely understand max but atleast try to see from his side. i knew since arthur died and other max didnt tell it was all part of the plan and lance was aiming to be dead as per him. but it was a bit weird that magnus was more worried about the general health of his kids than alec (which idk just makes him colder to his kids, like almost superficial in a sense, u know what i am not making sense, its 1:36 am ist rn and i have just cried since 12 am bc of this chapter) but i know i am feeling a general sense of disappointment for alec generally in this chapter and like the whole fic in gen and not bc of other things just his take on well being(which used to be my fav thing abt him) which rafe often seems to be more in tune with than alec and yes i know he isnt the main character but idk why this got stuck i have just finished reading it literally so i will come back and write more about other max)

but anyways this was such a good hauntingly beautiful chapter. i loved it really so much. I think it was our max that went thro to the portal so when max came to he was in the changed timeline of whatever max did ? i think. my heart just went out for other max and what he had to deal with, like david suicide was something i saw coming but baby max doesnt deserve all the bad things happening to him in any universe, i knew there was a reason he has always been my fav even when he is annoying. like even in canon like cassie universe, since i started the books from 4th tmi book and then finished the whole series, max was literally the first character i knew of after the tmi novel like outside of his characters and i loved the little blueberry character since the start, always, (maybe also why alec's behaviour stuck odd to me, bc i love his and max relationship so much) bten has always been my fav story( again the alec-max relationship my fav). i literally bought my first tsc novel to be ttosa for him, just for his story ( and bane chronicles bc magnus being a fav is a canon event) i love him so much. bless just let him be alive and happy to some extent dani, that is all i ask

If it is any consolation, I cried a lot writing that chapter too. LIKE A LOT.

About Alec - I think it was a very Alec think to do. If you notice, he was the only one who was sceptical of Other Max - WHICH IS GOOD. This man could be Lucifer for all they know and one of them needed to be rational (i feel the shooting was very much reactional than intentional). But yes, among the LB fam, alec is the rational one and i think his reaction to Other Max, including the "how do we know you are saying the truth" is very practical of him. (i am a lbaf alec defender byeeee)

We don't actually know if Max changed the canon event. All we know is that Other Max didn't. If he did, he'd remmeber it.

Love all the love for Max. He is truly the bestest ;)

[pyropsychiccollector]

Shiro Harem: Holy Grail War... of Love 1/7

As you guys know, the poll ended up being a 3-way tie... Technically. Although, based off the accidental "first" poll where Artoria had more votes tying her with Sakura... I'm gonna be generous and throw the King of Knights in here as an "unofficial" winner. It's the only poll that changed drastically enough, and I feel bad for flubbing up the first time. XD

... So, uh. Yeah. I'll be writing up 4 posts before posting anything. Be sure to cycle through my posts to find your favorite girl(s)... The official winners are Rin, Sakura, and Luvia. I'll be getting to Mitsuzuri, Illya, and Reines later. XD

Let's get to it, then. The first girl~... (人◕ω◕)

The Beginning

I'm gonna be weird here. I'll focus on Luvia first. (人◕ω◕) Why? Because Sakura, Rin, and Artoria are pretty predictable pairings for Shiro (all of them I support, but they're still pretty well-known ships), and they'll still be posted alongside Luvia here anyway. Let's give Luvia her day in the sun~...

Well. Her full name's Luviagelita Edelfelt. Heiress to the Edelfelt family. As far as members of the harem go, she's pretty late to the festivities... She's not even a participant of the Holy Grail War, which is a defining moment in Shiro's young life. Before we tread too much farther, I'm going to make a clarification...

Fate: Stay Night is all about branching timelines. As such, to cater to all seven members of this harem in a single worldline, we'll be looking at an AU separate from the canon ones, regardless of how similarly events may play out. Just a forewarning.

With that friendly public service announcement out in the open, let's jump right into it. (人◕ω◕) We'll be digging into the particulars of this AU's Holy Grail War in the other posts. For this one, I'm focusing on the postwar situation, since that's when Luvia came into play.

Luvia... is a young magus studying at the Clocktower in London. Pretty much the center of the magical world, the place where most magi want to end up, at least if they want to be distinguished or want to grow stronger. ... Sometimes both. (人◕ω◕) Luvia comes from an affluent, aristocratic family that practices Jewel Magecraft. As is the standard with their family lineage, she has a younger twin sister who remained behind in Finland, and is the complete opposite of her as a quiet introvert. ... Which is to say, Luvia is quite extroverted, and usually has a pleasant, graceful demeanor.

... Unless you happen to be Rin Tohsaka, in which case Luvia is always ready for a brawl. (人◕ω◕)

Did we mention she's rich? Because she is. She bought a European-style mansion not far from the Clocktower, but usually stays in the dorms, alongside Shiro and Rin... She attempted to purchase 28 rooms in the dorm to have a full floor to herself, but Rin got in the way of that, possessing a letter from Lord El-Melloi that allowed her and Shiro to have rooms on that floor... (人◕ω◕) You can imagine what transpired. That poor, poor receptionist's desk...

Still, in spite of Luvia's catty relationship with Rin, the young aristocrat is quite taken with Shiro... Or Shero, as she adoringly refers to him~... This is in part because...

1: Shiro is not a Tohsaka.

2. Shiro is the ideal gentleman type.

So even if Luvia and Rin brawl, Shiro doesn't intervene unless the sparring goes too far. Especially not in scheduled Clocktower classes. (人◕ω◕) Sure, Shiro tries politely getting them to tone it down, to get along... But Luvia can tell Shero understands that sometimes, ladies need to vent. And she does appreciate that kindhearted, empathetic part of him. Really. It's one of his defining traits. (人◕ω◕)

Luvia first met Shiro on the day he and Rin arrived in London, looking for lodgings. They were both lost, and ended up helping each other out. Luvia even brings him on as a part-time servant at her mansion. Helps pay the rent. (人◕ω◕)

But even after that initial phase of getting to know one another... Luvia became quite enamored and interested in Shiro~... He's a very interesting man: The adopted son of Kiritsugu Emiya, a veritable boogeyman of the magi world, and by proxy adopted grandson of Norikata Emiya, a sealing designate. He really is nothing like his family, at least not in the ways that matter. Shiro isn't hunting magi, he's not performing illegal experiments... As far as Luvia knows, he's following all the rules of the Clocktower as Rin's apprentice, and he genuinely cares for Luvia as a friend despite how roughly she treats Rin. (人◕ω◕)

The Middle Act

It does make Luvia curious, however... With how wonderful Shero is, there must be some darkness in him. Some blemish or skeletons in the closet... Luvia probes into Shiro's background, using what contacts and resources she has. Not because she's paranoid or thinks he'll stab her in the back... But you can never be too careful with fellow magi. They certainly like keeping their secrets.

The answers that Luvia stumble upon are... shocking, to say the least. There's apparently a ritual in the East called Heaven's Feel, which can be used to gain access to the Root. Something that all true magi seek to one day get to... But that information isn't what fascinated Luvia. The ritual itself became... contaminated, corrupted. And it's a ritual that repeats itself after several decades of storing up magical power, the Grail picking out seven people to summon Heroic Spirits to fight to the last man...

Again, not even that part interested Luvia. Not really. She already got the gist of the Grail Wars because her ancestors participated in it... The corruption tidbit was something she hadn't heard about, but apparently the problem was dealt with in this last Fifth Holy Grail War... By Shiro, Rin, and a few others. There was even indications that King Arthur himself had retained a physical form after the war, and resided in Japan... at Shero's home.

Yeah. Those were the shocking tidbits. Or that began to cover them, anyway. Not only did Shiro help stop a cataclysmic event, but he also held a deep bond with the King of Knights. ... Shiro also had a habit of being selfless to a fault, nearly sacrificing himself several times throughout that war... Even tried going toe-to-toe with Heroic Spirits... There wasn't many details of Shiro's past, though. Let alone the tales of his exploits... They were apparently getting the Top Secret treatment from the Clocktower, Luvia was lucky enough to find out what she did.

... So she attempted going straight to Shero about it. Find out what kind of man he was, because Luvia was too invested to stop digging now. Still... Luvia's questions were uncomfortable for Shiro; he couldn't bring himself to open up to an "outsider" the kind of trauma he's endured... Ultimately, what stopped him from talking about it is how everyone he's opened up to has reacted.

Anger.

Deep sadness.

Pity.

Rin made no attempt to hide the fact she disagreed with his dream of putting everyone else before himself... It's kinda why he ended up coming to the Clocktower with her. Shiro wanted to appease Rin, even if he had every intention of carrying on as he was. The Holy Grail War was a huge moment in his life, and it solidified his path forward, at least in his mind.

Sakura was just as distressed and displeased about Shiro's selflessness as Rin was. The same went for Illya, Medusa, Saber, and Mitsuzuri. They were letting Rin "handle it" for the few years they'd be at the Clocktower, attempting to "fix" him, but Shiro knew he'd be in for it when they eventually returned home... This is why he had no doubt Luvia would react in a similar way as them.

And... Shiro just didn't want to hear it from an outsider. Someone who hadn't been there in the Grail War. It was hard enough bearing his heart to his precious people who had been there at one of the most harsh and unforgiving battles in his young life... If he put others before himself, that was his business. He didn't need Luvia or anyone else telling him, "That's not right!" ... Cuz he got plenty of that from Rin. ... And Sakura.

... Of course they would be sisters...

So Shiro ran away from that conversation, leaving a very vexed and troubled Luvia Edelfelt in his wake. Sure, Shiro didn't have to share anything he didn't want to... But to completely clam up like that? Shut her out...? Luvia would be lying if she said that didn't hurt...

She wouldn't have much time to plan out her next steps, however. Rin would hear about Shiro's sudden dour mood, and bicker with Luvia about her nosy behavior.

It, uh... (人◕ω◕);;; It wouldn't take long for Lord El-Melloi II to break them up. Massive collateral damage, even going by their standards, and they got a massive chewing out for "inappropriate conduct in the halls of the Clocktower."

It also wouldn't take Rin and Waver long to figure out what Luvia was prying into. And though they believed the questions more pertinent to Shiro's state of mind were his to answer, they did reluctantly satisfy what they could of Luvia's curiosity. Hopefully to keep a repeat of this debacle from ever happening again. Rin didn't think it was Luvia's place at all to ask about Shiro or the Grail War, but Waver allowed it... (人◕ω◕);;;

And even with Waver's charity... Even with the understanding Shiro was an orphan from the ending of the Fourth Grail War, and that being how Kiritsugu adopted him... Luvia just had to know why Shiro didn't want to talk about any of this. From what she was told, it didn't sound like Shiro had PTSD... not per se. She honestly just wanted to know how being saved by Kiritsugu made him the man that he is today. The brave, yet admittedly brash, hero.

So Luvia cornered Shiro again, despite Rin's warnings to leave him alone. And upon seeing that she had learned the long and short of his life's story... he grudgingly opened up to Luvia, knowing full well she was gonna react just like everyone else.

The thing is... Luvia didn't. She didn't react the way Shiro was expecting. After hearing his dream, hearing what made Shiro Emiya tick... Luvia grew thoughtful. Sure, she could see why Rin was so frustrated with his selflessness... It wasn't a "proper" way to live, not by any stretch of the imagination.

... But as an Edelfelt, Luvia knew the mindset of dedicated servants. You could flat out order someone to retire, to settle down, be happy... And the most loyal, the most obstinate, the most stubborn of servants wouldn't be able to honor that request. Because they placed the happiness of their masters first. Shiro was absolutely thinking along those same lines, putting the rest of the world above himself because he didn't want anyone to cry...

It was a fool's dream, and Luvia couldn't fathom even a fraction of that selflessness as an heiress to her noble family.

But... Luvia had found ways to make her family's servants feel like people, to have moments of happiness even if they didn't prioritize their happiness... She could understand Rin's outrage perfectly well. Of course Luvia was concerned for Shero as well. But it's not possible to change the mindset of a servant on a dime, to let them have autonomy and a sense of self.

You have to take it one step at a time. Reflect back the loyalty you're given. As he is, Shero couldn't possibly imagine what it's like to be "happy". To have fun. To be even a tiny bit selfish.

And that's perfectly alright. Shero had signed himself on as her servant, even if just part-time, and that made Shero her responsibility. (人◕ω◕) Yes. Her Shero. Rin will just have to deal, the bratty Tohsaka heiress didn't know a thing about "true" royalty. if she did, Rin wouldn't be trying to brute force Shero into being a "normal" person. Because that's just not happening anytime soon. (人◕ω◕)

Despite his "servant" mindset, Luvia doesn't see him as truly below her. She quite sympathizes with the "commoners", and prefers a simple man to one of her station and caliber. Shero shall be her "pet project". ... Whether Rin likes it or not. (人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)

The Future

Shiro doesn't stay at the Clocktower for long, just a few years as he's allowed. And Rin goes back to Japan with him, despite resolving to return to properly study there someday.

... And to both of their chagrin, Luvia also comes to Japan with them. (人◕ω◕) It took some time, but Luvia arranged for the ruins of the old Edelfelt castles to be scrapped, and for a new one to be erected. ... Well, calling it a castle might be a little overexaggerating. (人◕ω◕) More like... Luvia paid an exorbitant amount of money to have a European-style mansion to be built within five minutes of where Shiro lives. Basically a stone's throw away. (人◕ω◕)

Luvia explains to Shiro that she's taking a break from studying at the Clocktower, too. And despite appearances, she won't necessarily be staying in Japan... Not permanently. Only when Shero's there. And she will be funding any trips around the world that he may be drawing up in his head, in his efforts to help people...

Of course, Shiro doesn't like being a burden to Luvia. Dictating her life in any way. And, well. Luvia says that's too bad, cuz she's going to help him even if he refuses it. The Edelfelt fortune is quite vast. And no matter where he tries to run, Luvia will find him. (人◕ω◕) He's a bit unnerved at her tenacity, and knows not to underestimate her resources...

But moreover, he's terrified of Rin, Illya, Saber, and Sakura's violent reactions to Luvia showing up out of the blue and pampering Shiro left and right. He was not expecting Sakura to get worked up, that's for sure. And he knows Medusa is still fiercely loyal to Sakura-chan, so Luvia's in trouble if she's set off too much... (人◕ω◕)

Luvia in general is... terrifying. (人◕ω◕) No matter how hard he tries, she just keeps showering him in generosity and charity. And in spite of his dream, Shiro finds himself... softening up to all the kind gestures. Mostly because Rin revels in the lavish stuff, like heavenly soft beds, state-of-the-art baths, imported chocolates... All except for the technology stuff. ... Don't talk to Rin about Blu-Ray players. ...... Don't. (人◕ω◕);;; In all seriousness, Shiro doesn't care about wealth or exceedingly rich and elegant stuff... But seeing Rin mooch off of him, enjoying Luvia's gifts... Luvia knows full well he wants his precious people happy, and so to make them satisfied through gifts given to him... She knows damn well how to play the game. Shiro can't object too much if Rin - or now others - are enjoying Luvia's very gracious gifts... Deep down he wants to, but knows he can't. (人◕ω◕) It especially gets vexing when Luvia gives him the world on a silver platter when it comes to renovating his kitchen. His one sanctuary in his home. (人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕) People know to let him handle the cooking... So for Luvia to give him the nicest kitchen one can buy...

... Well. It's probably the first time Shiro is perfectly fine being selfish.... Because he can take care of his precious people better with a state-of-the-art kitchen. (人◕ω◕) Yeah, that's the excuse he's running with. Don't you judge him. (人◕ω◕)

Luvia will keep softening Shiro up as the years go by. Loyalty gets repaid in spades, as far as she's concerned. (人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕)(人◕ω◕) Now... if she "hypothetically" arranges for a marriage between Shiro and herself, obtaining his signature while he's distracted making dinner one night... If such a little thing were to happen.... (人◕ω◕)

Of course this begins World War 3 in the Emiya household. ... Or perhaps a new Grail War? Who can say? (人◕ω◕) The ladies are certainly plotting marriages and baby Shiro's, anything to keep him from being a suicidal idiot that later became a bitter idiot in the guise of a Heroic Spirit...

But that's a story for another time. (人◕ω◕)