#theory 11

[istumpysk]

OPERATION ICEBERG: THE TIER LIST

THEORY:

Lemongate

TIER:

People's Choice! I swear to god, if you guys screw this up...

Under Consideration: These theories haven't garnered strong or extensive evidence, but they're worthy of discussion.

vs.

50/50: These theories are complete toss-ups.

vs.

Low Probability: While not impossible, these theories are unlikely based on the current evidence.

vs.

Long Shot: These theories are largely speculative, based more on wishful thinking or obscure hints than on solid evidence.

vs.

Debunked: These theories have been directly contradicted by the text, George R. R. Martin, or other authoritative sources.

[Tier list overview]

EVIDENCE:

What is Lemongate?

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. - Daenerys I, AGOT

The theory argues that lemons can't grow in Braavos, therefore something about Daenerys' childhood has yet to be revealed.

What could it be?

It depends on who you ask. The problem with this theory is that it serves as the foundation for many other theories, making it extremely difficult to cover.

The possibility that Daenerys never actually lived in Braavos has led to various speculations, including but not limited to the following:

The big house with the red door was in Dorne.

Daenerys Targaryen isn't really Daenerys Targaryen, and has false memories of her childhood with Viserys Targaryen.

Daenerys is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

Daenerys is the daughter of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.

And that's just scratching the surface.

For the sake of my sanity, we won't delve into all that nonsense. Instead, we'll focus solely on the question of whether lemons can grow in Braavos and, if not, what the hell is going on.

Okay, do lemons grow in Braavos?

Maybe? Daenerys seems to think so.

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. - Daenerys I, AGOT

But there's some issues.

For starters, trees don't really grow in Braavos.

Beyond the harbor she glimpsed streets of grey stone houses, built so close they leaned one upon the other. To Arya's eyes they were queer-looking, four and five stories tall and very skinny, with sharp-peaked tile roofs like pointed hats. She saw no thatch, and only a few timbered houses of the sort she knew in Westeros. They have no trees, she realized. Braavos is all stone, a grey city in a green sea. - Arya I, AFFC

x

The stony maze of islands and canals that was Braavos, devoid of grass and trees and teeming with strangers who spoke to her in words she could not understand, frightened her so badly that she lost the map and soon herself. - Samwell III, AFFC

Braavos is built on a lagoon at the northwestern end of Essos.

(map!)

It is often described as foggy, with a damp, cool, maritime climate. It draws significant inspiration from the city of Venice, Italy.

The day looked to be a rare one, crisp and clear and bright. Braavos only had three kinds of weather; fog was bad, rain was worse, and freezing rain was worst. But every so often would come a morning when the dawn broke pink and blue and the air was sharp and salty. Those were the days that Cat loved best. - Cat of the Canals, AFFC

x

"Winter is nigh upon us. The day I left Braavos, there was ice on the canals." - Jon IX, ADWD

It's not an ideal climate for growing lemons, as the text humorously notes.

"Seven hells, this place is damp," she heard her guard complain. "I'm chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?" "Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis," the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. "I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King's Landing, fool. Can't you read a bloody map?" - Mercy, TWOW

It's nothing like Dorne, a more suitable place for a lemon tree.

Anguy shuffled his feet. "We were thinking we might eat it, Sharna. With lemons. If you had some." "Lemons. And where would we get lemons? Does this look like Dorne to you, you freckled fool? Why don't you hop out back to the lemon trees and pick us a bushel, and some nice olives and pomegranates too." - Arya II, ASOS

x

There children frolicked naked in the sun, music played in tiled courtyards, and the air was sharp with the smell of lemons and blood oranges. - The Captain of the Guards, AFFC

And to the author's credit, he appears to fully understand the conditions under which lemon trees can and cannot thrive.

Sweetrobin loved lemon cakes too, but only after she told him that they were her favorites. The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more. - Alayne I, TWOW

So you can see why it's a bit puzzling.

Has anyone ever thought to simply ask George about it?

Of course. If you had the opportunity to ask George R. R. Martin anything, why wouldn't you waste your moment on something as stupid as this?

George was asked about the discrepancy, and surprisingly, he was uncharacteristically forthcoming. He acknowledged that it's very perceptive to pick up on a detail like that and playfully hinted that it points to something else.

Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn't really grow in Braavos's cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepency significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany's past? Thank you so much. Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to . . . well, that would be telling. - George R. R. Martin

In that case, is Lemongate confirmed to be real?

No, not exactly.

Despite what he said, there's really no hints in the text concerning any secrecy around Daenerys' upbringing.

Ser Willem Darry was in Braavos, a fact that could be confirmed by several people.

"It is a secret pact," Dany said, "made in Braavos when I was just a little girl. Ser Willem Darry signed for us, the man who spirited my brother and myself away from Dragonstone before the Usurper's men could take us. Prince Oberyn Martell signed for Dorne, with the Sealord of Braavos as witness." She handed the parchment to Ser Barristan, so he might read it for himself. - Daenerys VII, ADWD

And while trees are rare in Braavos, they do grow in the gardens of the wealthy, where you'd expect Daenerys to be. It's not out of the question that a lemon tree could grow there. Lemon trees can also grow in Venice, Italy.

Trees did not grow on Braavos, save in the courts and gardens of the mighty. - Samwell III, AFFC

Compare one questionable lemon tree to how the author handles Jon Snow's parentage, and you can see why the theory has some issues.

Then what the hell is going on?

I believe one of three possibilities exists.

POSSIBILITY #1

Daenerys lived in a nice big house in Braavos with Ser Willem Darry, and there was a lemon tree outside her window. Nothing weird is happening.

POSSIBILITY #2

We have another instance of an unreliable narrator, who is rewriting a past event that never existed.

Daenerys is chasing a red door and a lemon tree that were never truly there, and she'll never reach her destination. It's a commentary on the futility of her entire objective.

POSSIBILITY #3*

(*also known as the real reason)

At the last minute, George changed the location of the big house with the red door from Tyrosh to Braavos, resulting in a humorous inconsistency in the story.

Yes, it's really that simple.

Blood of the Dragon was a novella published in the July 1996 issue of Asimov's Science Fiction magazine. It is based on the Daenerys chapters from A Game of Thrones and was released before the book itself.

Here's an excerpt:

That was when they had lived in Tyrosh, in the big house with the red door. Dany had slept in her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever. They had wandered since then, from Tyrosh to Myr, from Myr to Braavos, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in any one place.

Whoops! Something's different.

The big house with the red door originally being in Tyrosh isn't surprising, given that ✨ we know ✨ Daenerys speaks with a Tyroshi accent.

The merchant must have taken her for Dothraki, with her clothes and her oiled hair and sun-browned skin. When she spoke, he gaped at her in astonishment. "My lady, you are … Tyroshi? Can it be so?" "My speech may be Tyroshi, and my garb Dothraki, but I am of Westeros, of the Sunset Kingdoms," Dany told him. - Daenerys VI, AGOT

You'd have to spend many of your formative younger years in Tyrosh for that to be the case.

As Irri and Jhiqui helped her from her litter, she sniffed, and recognized the sharp odors of garlic and pepper, scents that reminded Dany of days long gone in the alleys of Tyrosh and Myr and brought a fond smile to her face. - Daenerys VI, AGOT

Amusingly, this now-deleted part of her history was somewhat alluded to when her mirrored image twin from Tyrosh was introduced to the story.

The Tyroshi sellsword was not a good man, no one needed to tell her that. - Daenerys V, ASOS

x

"Is it Daario? What's happened?" In her dream they had been man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. - Daenerys II, ADWD

Many inconsistencies and discrepancies are present throughout the series, but they are especially noticeable in A Game of Thrones.

Lemons grow in Tyrosh, but they don't typically grow in Braavos. It's a detail the author overlooked when making the simple change, and I guarantee you this is him poking fun at himself (and the Lemongaters) for the error:

"Seven hells, this place is damp," she heard her guard complain. "I'm chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?" "Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis," the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. "I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King's Landing, fool. Can't you read a bloody map?" - Mercy, TWOW

So, we can probably put it to rest.

But George himself said it was pointing to something??

Aww, adorable.

If you've been paying attention to George R. R. Martin for any amount of time, you should realize that if there were something truly significant about lemon trees not growing in Braavos as part of a secret plot yet to be revealed, there's no way in hell he would ever answer that question in that manner on LiveJournal.

Allow me to finish his sentence for him,

Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn't really grow in Braavos's cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepency significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany's past? Thank you so much. Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to . . . [my changing the story and overlooking a minor detail, like an idiot.]

Fine, but why did he switch it from Tyrosh to Braavos?

I don't know why, but you should stop overthinking this, and we should move on.

(because of arya.)

STUMPY'S THOUGHTS:

I'd like to think Lemongate has been debunked, but I'll leave it to the people to render their verdict.

Does Lemongate amount to nothing? Absolutely. Do lemons grow in Braavos? Not really. Is the house with the red door a symbol of an idealized past she'll never be able to replicate in her future? I don't doubt it.

Many things can be true here, but one thing that's not is that she lived in Dorne, and Lyanna Stark is her mother.

VOTE:

NEXT THEORY:

Oberyn poisoned Tywin

[Main menu]

[fiftytwotwentyfour]

Puzzle 1: Box One

Presented by Neil Patrick Harris

Created by Theory 11

Puzzle Classification: Table Top Escape Room

Price: ~ $35 (I did receive it as a gift)

*** This Tabletop Escape Room was Brought to You by Nerd Gummy Clusters, Monster Energy, and Path Water ***

Jk - Just my choosen game fuel. Sadly, I'm without sponsorship...

Review:

If any of know me (especially from my ol' book blog) I tend to collect books and forget about them without ever reading them.

Apparently games/puzzles are no different.

I received this box couple holidays ago as a gift and I just shelved it - but - to be fair I was a bit preoccupied with other engagements/challenges - but - I am happy to state I am glad I waited and devoted my full attention to Box One.

I have purchased other Theory 11 merchandise before (mainly playing cards) because of their high quality and craftsmanship. I can easily report Box One is made of the utmost quality. Items inside were crisp, durable, and hold high production value.

I've done Tabletop Escape Rooms in the past and their in game mechanics are typically flimsy paper or janky cardboard. Inside Box One you will find cards made from heavy cardstock and items made with heft. Another classy touch - the game provides you paper and a pen so you need little to no outside items*.

One of absolute favorite thing about this box is the was that I didn't have to "destroy" anything - aka - I was able to repackage the game and I can share with an unsuspecting friend/family member.

It is made for the use of solo play - which for me is great because available/willing friends are few and far between - but if you are more popular than me you could still play with a couple of buds and still have blast.

Another area were Box One superceeds other basic Tabletop Escape Rooms is that the gameplay is mostly linear - you feel like you have a clear directive even as you have a "story/mystery/issue" yet to unravel - what I mean - as you play you actually feel like you are progressing with the game where as other escape rooms I've played in the past you just open up a box and haphazardly slap mini puzzles together while racing an arbitrary clock. Box One is a gem that you can comfortably/leisurely play in one or two hour/afternoon session.

As I have already said the quality and production value are top notch, but I did find one in game mechanic slightly irritating as it put a damper completion time. I did manage to find a work around and dive right back into the enjoyment of the game.

If I had to state any other cons - I would say some of the "challenges/mini games" almost - almost - boarded on being too tiresome. If they would have mixed things up a bit more, maybe shortened them up a bit, and/or added one or two more mechanics it would have been absolutely stellar game - near impossible to top.

Don't get me wrong - it was still awesome - I found it to be on the eaiser side. How things unraveled truly is what kept it compelling and engaging.

Completion Time: 2hr36min43sec91ms

Hints/Clues Used: Zero

Items Not Included / Needed:

Phone/Computer with Internet Connection

Fridge/Freezer

Flashlight/Light Source

Personal Rating: 7.5/10

2024 Puzzle Record: 1/1

[firewireblog-blog]

Theory 11 Beetlejuice Playing Cards

Go ahead, make the millennium with a must-have deck of cards for fans of the original classic and the long-awaited sequel of Beetlejuice! Featuring vibrant slime green and haunting purple accents, Somebody wants to join in on the fun! Say his name three times and welcome your new player to the table. Keep an eye out for hidden Easter eggs and references from both the original 1988 film and the…

[99thpercentile]

collection of tmagp 11 audio glitches (it glitches when people lie!):

and the one I'm very confused about:

what is this. why does this count as a lie? is it meant for "That's right"? how is that a lie? what does it mean??

[dr11ft]

tiny jason warmup sketches

[countesspetofi]

[lostlavenderer]

I love Sam as our protag and I appreciate Lena as our new ominous office manager but sorry neither of them stand a chance. that entire office is literally just 'Alice Dyer and people who are irrevocably undeniably intensely in love with Alice Dyer' with not even a single exception

[crippledanarchy]

If you're in the US and you're concerned about Palestine, leave US Jews alone, and start asking your local evangelist how much money their christian church sends annually to support the genocide being committed by the state of israel.

[the-jaffster-official]

Sometimes my friends are insightful and wise and I'm grateful for them, and sometimes they say shit like this

[plum-pitt]

MatPat announced his retirement today and local college student is not ok about this fact. More at 11

[sjw-irritant]

[ahalliance]

some notable moments from the qsmp meta talk antoine, étoiles, baghera and co had yesterday, including the stuff i mentioned in this post <3 subtitles in eng, transcript in eng below the cut as well (I apologize for the bad video quality my wifi hates me)

[Video Transcript:

[First clip begins]

Etoiles: I’m— I’m gonna go on QSMP, I think

ZeratoR: (laughs) This really made him want to play Minecraft

Baghera: Ohh, lucky, I miss it

Etoiles: But— you still can’t come back?

Antoine: Well, technically, she could come back, but I don’t think it’s as simple as that

Baghera: (pained) Not as simple as that….

ZeratoR: What are you waiting for?

Etoiles: It’s Lost, it’s Lost

Antoine: Well, her character is dead in game

ZeratoR: Ahhh… but isn’t there a way to— to— a gimmick?

Antoine: No but don’t worry, there’ll probably be a gimmick (laughs) there’ll probably be a gimmick, don’t worry

Baghera: Don’t worry, don’t worry—

Antoine: No, she’s banned from the server! She’s banned from the server, it’s over

ZeratoR: Sucks! How did you die?

Antoine: Nuclear explosion

Baghera: Nuclear— yeah, nuclear explosion

ZeratoR: Ah yeah indeed you’re dead

Etoiles: That should have technically killed everyone—

Antoine: I hadn’t been there for a long time!

Etoiles: Well, I wasn’t there either— oh, well, you (laughs) you—

Antoine: I was elsewhere, I was elsewhere, dude

Etoiles: What a fraud you are (laughs)

ZeratoR: Where were you?

Antoine: I was elsewhere— somewhere else, I can’t say, it’s my lore, dude (laughs)

Etoiles: It’s his lore!

Antoine: I can’t say, dude, it’s my lore, dude

Étoiles: Antoine’s lore—

Baghera: Oh wow, you played around with that? Damn, I didn’t even see

ZeratoR: Basically he was glued to the bomb but well played to him

Etoiles: The lore in question (laughs)

Antoine: The lore in question, dude, it’s mad

Baghera: Take of yourselves guys! This was so cool

[Everyone says goodbye]

[Baghera leaves the call]

ZeratoR: Basically he was glued to the bomb but he found a gimmick

Antoine: Yeahhhh

Etoiles: The lore in question, just being the goat

Antoine: Yeah but the problem is that it’s my lore in every game, dude

Etoiles: (laughs) Oh but it’s really that. Antoine’s lore is being the goat

[Second clip begins]

Etoiles: Something that makes me laugh a bit is the fact that because there’s so many open plotlines it leads to fan theories that are sometimes really fun. There was a moment when my character’s skin, well, it was made for me with white eyes. And well I used it because I found it cool. And, actually, when I put it on, I read 65 tweets from people going, ‘hey, did you know that Etoiles’ character is blind because he actually lost his eyesight because he was—‘

Antoine: But you know on this server, the moment you say any sentence it gets overinterpreted in every way

Etoiles: It’s so funny—

Antoine: What’s wild is that there’s a billion theories on things, and for my part there are people that have understood some stuff about the theory and everything, which I find rather fun

Etoiles: Well it’s— you can’t reproach them because—

Antoine: Oh no precisely, I don’t want to reproach them, on the contrary I find it so cool!

Etoiles: Yeah but it’s funny the extent to which they get in their heads about it— like, you say one sentence on the server and you read a whole text of 65–

Antoine: Yeah, yeah it’s that

Etoiles: It’s really so funny

Angle Droit/Florence: Hmm, he said he was hungry at this given time, it’s surely a coded message

Etoiles: It’s really that!

Antoine: No but really, it’s really that, you know

Etoiles: But you know it’s honestly that, Florence

Antoine: You say a little sentence that’s supposed to be a joke and it’ll be interpreted seriously because ‘there’s this, and this, and that’, you see. But the thing is, it’s often completely wrong, but sometimes it’s correct. So they have every reason to continue theorising, honestly, I find. I think they have every reason to continue theorising, it’s very interesting

Etoiles: You’re just correct the goat, dude

[Third clip begins]

Etoiles: Basically I can say it because it’s out of roleplay and I think Antoine already knows it, because sometimes people are like, ‘yeah you can’t spoil the other streamers!’ but the streamers see everything—

Antoine: I know everything that happens on QSMP

Etoiles: —it’s just that the streamers don’t use the info rp wise. Basically I’m apart of an organisation on the server—

Antoine: What, you’re kidding, dude?!

[The others laugh]

ZeratoR: What the fuck?!

Antoine: I’m not supposed to know that, dude!

Etoiles: Basically I’m apart of an organisation that’s called the Resistance—

Antoine: (scoffs)

Etoiles: —and it’s completely hidden within the server, no one knows about it in the roleplay

ZeratoR: Even I knew about it, so

Etoiles: Yeah, well there you go. And therefore I have a hidden team that allows me to go into buildings, kill Federation agents that take care of the Island, and—

Antoine: But why would you want to kill Federation agents, dude?

Etoiles: Well because they’re not very nice, dude

ZeratoR: (laughs) Oh the lore is incredible. Well, it’s not nice to be mean, but…

Etoiles: The thing that’s funny—

Antoine: They’re not mean…

Etoiles: —is that I see messages from people on Twitter reacting like, ‘well I think it’s insane that Etoiles is killing Federation agents,’ when I don’t want to kill them. I never want to kill them. When I kill them, it’s because I’m forced to. And the last time, I didn’t want to kill them—

Antoine: That’s a really war criminal-esque phrase, that

ZeratoR: Clearly

Etoiles: No but bro, bro, it’s the admins themselves that told me, ‘return to the base, let’s fight,’ that’s what they said, bro, so I was like, ‘well, okay’ (laughs)

Antoine: Well that…

Etoiles: It was fun, honestly. And so when I saw all the messages on Twitter like, ‘Etoiles’ character has totally lost his mind,’ I was like, well—

Antoine: What, you don’t like white teddy bears, dude? Honestly, they’re so cool

Etoiles: Then again, white teddy bears aren’t really nice, dude

Antoine: Dude they are simply what I’d call the goat, honestly. They’re what I call the goat, personally, white teddy bears are called the goat

end Video Transcript.]

[buwheal]

Unexpected but fair.

How long were we disconnected?

[firewireblog-blog]

Theory 11 Deadpool Playing Cards

With great power, comes great irresponsibility! Theory 11 announces Deadpool premium playing cards inspired by Marvel’s most famous merc with a mouth! Grab your katanas and let’s go! Your favorite anti-hero comes to life in these premium playing cards, tucked inside a box designed to resemble his iconic suit, complete with sculpted embossing, silver foil accents, and most importantly……

[xxx-scars-on-my-neck-xxx]

First we got 9/11. Now we hav Friday 13th.

I swear Watevr comez next it better be MCR5

[addicted-to-the-knife]

I finally had the chance to watch the Boston panel.

and I'm starting to think that a lot of you either haven't watched it yourselves, or were so set on specific opinions you personally have, while also having clear expectations of what their answers will be, that with their answers (or what are talked about as their answers) made you so unhappy that now you're just bashing them; especially Hugh.

why, though? none of the things I've seen people complain about were actually said like that or fully implied. so... what? doesn't make sense to me why some of you are so upset about this panel. it was so much fun and just lighthearted entertainment. panels like that are the reason these things exist and are usually so much fun in the first place.