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sneezypeasy · 7 months

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The Lightning Scene, How Azula Targeted Katara (of All People), and the Doylist Reason Why That Matters

Mention Zuko's sacrifice for Katara in Sozin's Comet Part 3 as part of a pro-Zutara talking point, and invariably you'll get a Pavlovian response of:

"But Zuko would have taken the lightning for anyone."

(Not to be confused with the similar-sounding Pavlovan response, which is "Zuko's sacrifice ain't shit compared to a mouth-watering, strawberry-topped meringue dessert"*, which is actually the only valid counter-argument to how the lightning scene is a bona fide Zutara treasure, but I digress.)

Now, I've talked in depth about how the lightning scene is framed far more romantically than it had any right to be, regardless of how you might interpret the subject on paper; this is an argument which I still stand by 100%. That Zuko would have gotten barbecued for anyone, and that he was at the stage of his arc where his royal kebab-ness represented his final act of redemption, doesn't change the fact that the animators/soundtrack artists decided to pull out all the stops with making this scene hit romantic film tropes bingo by the time it played out on screen.

(I mean, we stan.)

There's also a deeper level to this conundrum, a layer which creeps up on you when you're standing in your kitchen at night, the fridge door open in front of you, your hungry, sleep-deprived brain trying to decide on what to grab for a midnight snack, and quite inexcusably you're struck with the question: Okay, Zuko may indeed have taken the lightning for just anyone, but would Azula have shot the lightning at just anyone?

But there's yet a deeper layer to this question, that I don't recall ever seeing anyone discuss (though if somebody has, mea culpa). And that is: would you have written Zuko taking the lightning for anyone else?

Or in other words, who Zuko would have taken the lightning for is the wrong question to be asking; the question we ought to be asking is who Zuko should have taken the lightning for, instead.

Get your pens out, your Doylist hats on, and turn to page 394. It's time to think like an author for a hot minute.

(If you don't know what I mean by Watsonian vs. Doylist analyses, and/or if you need a refresher course, go have a skim of the first section of this 'ere post and then scoot your ass back to this one.)

So. You're the author. You've written almost the entirety of an animated series (look at you!!) and now you're at the climax, which you've decided is going to be an epic, hero-villain showdown. Classic. Unlike previous battles between these two characters, your hero is going to have a significant advantage in this fight - partly due to his own development as a hero at the height of his strength and moral conviction, and partly because your villain has gone through a bit of a Britney Spears 2007 fiasco, and isn't quite at the top of her game here. If things keep going at this pace, your hero is going to win the fight fairly easily - actually, maybe even too easily. That's okay though, you're a talented writer and you know just what will raise the stakes and give the audience a well-timed "oh shit" moment: you're going to have the villain suddenly switch targets and aim for somebody else. The hero will be thrown off his groove, the villain will gain the upper hand, the turns will have indubitably tabled. Villains playing dirty is the number 1 rule in every villain handbook after all, and each of the last two times your hero's braved this sort of fight he's faced an opponent who ended up fighting dishonourably, so you've got a lovely Rule of Three perfectly lined up for the taking. Impeccable. The warm glow of triumph shines upon you, cherubs sing, your English teachers clap and shed tears of pride. (Except for that one teacher you had in year 8 who hated everybody, but she's a right bitch and we're not talking about her today.)

Now here's the thing: your hero is a hero. Maybe he wasn't always a hero, but he certainly is one now. If the villain goes after an innocent third party, there's basically no-one your hero wouldn't sacrifice himself for. He's a hero! Heroes do be like that, it's kind of their thing. The villain could shoot a bolt of lightning at Bildad the Shuhite, and the only thing that'd stop our boy Redeemed Paladin Bravesoul McGee from shielding his foxy ass is the fact that Bildad the Shuhite has the audacity to exist in a totally different show (disgusten.)

But. You're holding the writer's pen. Minus crossover shenanigans you don't have the licensing or time-travel technology to achieve, you have full control over how this scene plays out. You get to decide which character to target to deliver the greatest emotional impact, the juiciest angst, the most powerful cinematic suspense. You get to decide whose life you'll put at risk, to make this scene the most intense spine-chilling heart-stopper it can possibly be.

This is the climax we're talking about, after all - now is not the time to go easy on the drama.

So.

Do you make the villain target just anyone?

Or do you make the villain target someone the hero cares about?

Perhaps, someone he cares about... a lot?

Maybe even, someone he cares about... more than anybody else?

You are the author. You are the God of this universe. You get to choose.

What would deliver the strongest punch?

If you happen to make the inadvisable decision of browsing through these tropes on TV tropes, aside from wasting the rest of your afternoon (you're welcome), you'll find that the examples listed are littered with threatened and dead love interests, and, well, there's a reason for that. For better or worse, romantic love is often portrayed by authors, and perceived by audiences, as a "true" form of love (often even, "the" true form of love). Which is responsible for the other is a chicken/egg situation, one I'm not going to go into for this post - and while I'm certainly not here to defend this perspective as objectively good, I do think it's worth acknowledging that it not only exists but is culturally rather ubiquitous. (If you're playing the love interest in a story with a hero v. a villain, you might wanna watch your back, is what I'm saying.)

Regardless of whether the vibe you're aiming for is romantic or platonic however, one thing is for certain: if you want maximum oomph, the way to achieve that is by making the villain go after the player whose death would hit the hero the hardest.

And like I said, this doesn't have to be played romantically (although it so often is). There are platonic examples in those trope pages, though it's also important to note that many of the platonic ones do show up in stories where a love interest isn't depicted/available/there's a strong "bromance" element/the hero is low-key ace - and keep in mind too that going that route sometimes runs a related risk of falling into queer-bait territory *coughJohnLockcough*

That said, if there is a canon love-interest available, one who's confessed her love for the hero, one who has since been imprisoned by the villain, one who can easily be written as being at the villain's disposal, and who could quite conveniently be whipped out for a mid-battle surprise round - you might find you have some explaining to do if you choose to wield your authorly powers to have the villain go after... idk, some other sheila instead.

(The fact that this ends up taking the hero out of the fight, and the person he sacrifices himself for subsequently throws herself into the arena risking life and limb to defeat the villain and rescue her saviour, also means the most satisfying way this plays out, narratively speaking, is if both of these characters happen to be the most important person in each other's lives - at least, as of that moment, anyway - but I think this post has gone on long enough, lol)

This is, by and large, a rebuttal post more than anything else, but the tl;dr here is - regardless of whether you want to read the scene as shippy or not, to downplay Zuko's sacrifice for Katara specifically as "not that deep™" because "Zuko would have taken the lightning for anyone anyway", suggests either that a) nobody should be reading into the implications of Katara being chosen as the person nearest and dearest to Zuko, so that putting her life in jeopardy can deliver the most powerful impact possible for an audience you'd bloody well hope are on the edge of their seats during the climax of your story or b) the writers made the inexplicable decision of having the villain threaten the life of... literally who the fuck ever, and ultimately landed on someone who's actually not all that important to the hero in the grand scheme of things - which is a cardinal writing sin if I ever saw one (even disregarding the Choice to then season it with mood lighting and sad violin music, on top of it all), and altogether something I'd be legitimately pissed about if my Zuko-OTP ship paired him with Mai, Sokka, or just about anybody else 😂

Most importantly c) I'm hungry, and I want snacks.

*The Aussies in the fandom will get this one. Everyone else can suffer in united confusion.

#zutara #anti anti zutara #lightning scene ramblings #meta #long post

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punkeropercyjackson · 3 months

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Zutara shippers need to accept that nobody is obliged to like Zuko and especially that just not shipping him Katara means you think he's not valid.I'm literally in love with Zuko because i read the comics which take place in the adult years so i started selfshipping him with him and made a whole Atla self-insert to be together and he's a four way tie between Aang,Katara and Ty Lee for my favorite Atla character.D'you really think i actually hate him because i think i think it's okay if other poc consider him a colonizer even though i disagree?Or if they're uncomfortable with him being redeemed but not Jet and Hama due to the racist undertones?Or if Azula stans can't stand him as he was ruined by how much his asskissers bash her?It's a deeply unserious accusation and that's because it's NOT that serious!He's a fictional character!You have no right to attack people over him unless it's in a way that's actually offensive like victim blaming for what Ozai did or ableism over his scar and mental illnesses,which is real bold considering how often Aang being a genocide survivor is made out to be HIS fault by Z/Ks and the erasure of Zuko's scar and ptsd/bpd/etc symptoms to make him 'hotter' and more palpable by them too.I love Zuko more than Zutaras ever could,because i accept and appreciate him for who he is and am attracted to him for being who he is,not inspite of it,instead coddling him and making excuses and my Atla s/i would be a more satisfying love interest for him than Katara could ever be since their relathionship dosen't rely on character assasinating a woc and removing her agency for a man and calling it rebellion because he's an edgecase.Deal with it

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burst-of-iridescent · 2 years

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the official zutara dissertation: conclusion

This dissertation set out to prove that Zutara, rather than Kat.aang and Mai.ko, should have been the endgame ship of Avatar: The Last Airbender. It has discussed why Zuko and Katara would make a good couple within the text, how the narrative was setting them up for a relationship and why a Zutara endgame would have served the themes and messages of the show, as well as the arcs of all the characters involved, better than the canon relationships did.

Many have argued that Zutara is too complicated, too deep, too much for a kids’ show - that much of the subtext and narrative and analysis that really makes Zutara brilliant cannot be easily understood by children. But the reason that Avatar: The Last Airbender still stands the test of time today is because it did care about those very things, because it took difficult, complex issues and still managed to make them meaningful, nuanced and understandable. If ATLA could depict imperialism, colonialism, redemption, genocide and war, I see no reason why it could not have pulled off an enemies-to-lovers ship literally coded in the DNA of the show.

In conclusion, Zutara should have been canon because it would have fixed almost all of the narrative, thematic and character problems I have discussed over the course of this dissertation, and elevated the show to near perfection. The choice to deny Zutara of the ending they rightfully deserved is thus undoubtedly one of ATLA’s biggest flaws and its greatest loss.

But as Dante Basco, Prince Zuko himself and captain of the Zutara ship, put it: “Sometimes the feeling of what could have been is stronger than what actually happened, because the memory of perfection lasts longer.”

Though Zuko and Katara’s story ends in tragedy, it is this very tragedy that still makes them so fascinating all of these years later ‐ because the final element of Zutara’s brilliance is the idea of what might have been, in what has been left solely to our imaginations. In the greatest of ironies, therefore, it was only by leaving the story of Zuko and Katara unfinished that it was able to become the beautiful tale it is today ‐ more powerful and compelling, perhaps, than it could ever have been in canon.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Araeph, 2017. Araeph’s Greatest Hits, Vol. 2. https://at.tumblr.com/burst-of-iridescent/araephs-greatest-hits-vol-2/zfcozrmeby19

Certified Bi Fangirl Disaster, 2020. The Cave of Two Lovers foreshadows the Zutara interactions in the Crossroads of Destiny. https://at.tumblr.com/theotterpenguin/645662327005478912/p30gsur9gexe

DevilDogDemon et. al, 2021. The Effect of Kataang on Aang’s Character Arc. https://at.tumblr.com/burst-of-iridescent/devildogdemon-juldooz-atla-negromouthandafro/hs2r37t0uipp

FunFanFin, 2017. How Zutara Fulfills The Show’s Key Themes. https://at.tumblr.com/funfanfin/dentist-open-up-me-wellokay-so-not-only-does/pnwuyp5pxxc4

Marsreds, 2017. It’s called the Cave of Two Lovers, not the Cave of Two “Treasured/Close/Platonic Friends”. https://at.tumblr.com/marsreds/its-called-the-cave-of-two-lovers-not-the-cave/njy7bj7qkoko

My Bated Breath, 2020. Wants vs Need - A Comparison Between Kataang, Taang, and Zutara. https://at.tumblr.com/my-bated-breath/wants-vs-need-a-comparison-between-kataang/vvhl7irrdk69

RoyalTeaLovingKookiness, 2019. The Romantic Framing of Zutara. https://at.tumblr.com/royaltealovingkookiness/i-think-the-anon-who-sent-the-zuko-lost-azula-in/rpfdg8oxfmfq

SneezyPeasy, 2021. Get in losers, we’re stanning Zutara. https://at.tumblr.com/sneezypeasy/get-in-losers-were-stanning-zutara/0x2mbtmsp3xu

SneezyPeasy, 2021. Why Aang’s Lines Sound Preachy in The Southern Raiders. https://at.tumblr.com/sneezypeasy/why-aangs-lines-sound-preachy-in-the-southern/q78urhuqp6lm

SunMoonTurtleDuck, 2021. Why Zuko Had To Take Azula’s Lightning for Katara. https://at.tumblr.com/theotterpenguin/its-true-zuko-would-have-taken-the-lightning-for/ki6rg04v45h2

TheMomentofDavyPrentiss, 2017. Why I Believe Katara Canonically Had Romantic Feelings for Zuko. https://at.tumblr.com/themomentofdavyprentiss/why-i-believe-katara-canonically-had-romantic/m7a6x8a521n8

TheOtterPenguin, 2022. A Counter Argument to “Zuko Would Have Taken The Lightning for Anyone!” https://at.tumblr.com/theotterpenguin/why-is-zuko-would-have-taken-the-lightning-for/amyfkr6oaz45

#zutara #zutara meta #the official zutara dissertation #and we're done!!!#this series has been so fun to write and seeing everyone's reactions made me so happy #i hope this was as enjoyable to read as it was to make <33 #and also shoutout to all these amazing metas and sneezy's god tier zutara video #anti kataang #anti maiko #ana out *drops mic*

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likeabxrdinflight · 10 months

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What is your take on Azula's relationship with Zuko? There's a lot of talk about her rivalry with him, but I find it more intriguing to talk about their other facets, like the implication that Azula deep down actually cares about her brother.

There's this odd phenomenon that's been happening in what I'll call ATLA fandom 2.0 (the post-netflix revival) where it seems like you have to pick a side- Zuko or Azula. If you stan one, you can't stan the other. And I haven't cared for that since, frankly, those two (alongside best girl Katara) are easily my favorite characters. So I'm not all that interested in "picking sides" and I'm not all that interested in them as rivals either. That said, it's important to note that their position in opposition to each other is important to the story the show is telling.

Azula is a character in her own right, but she's also a narrative device. As an antagonist, Azula is Zuko's most direct foil. She's his dark mirror, his evil twin (narratively speaking.) So when she's on top of the world, he's hit rock bottom, and vice versa. She represents the worst of the Fire Nation and is everything he could become if he were to give into his worst instincts (again, this is all speaking symbolically, their personalities are quite different). But because of this, she had to fall for him to rise. It's very effective storytelling within the three seasons of the show. Unfortunately that meant there wasn't much room within those three seasons to showcase any more nuance in their relationship.

I'm always torn on this decision by the showrunners, because on the one hand, it's a huge part of why Zuko's story arc is as effective as it is. And all my biases aside, Zuko's arc is very effective and, for a children's show released in 2005, pretty smartly written. It gets a bit overblown by the fandom, it's a pretty basic redemption arc at the end of the day, but it's still a well executed one and I think it's dishonest to pretend it isn't. On the other hand, it came at the cost of actually developing the relationship between Azula and Zuko and, arguably, of Azula's character as a whole. She isn't allowed to have her own arc independent of Zuko because she really only exists (from a writing standpoint) to be that dark mirror. She's not Aang et al's main antagonist. She's Zuko's. She doesn't really get to do much outside that role.

All that said I do think it goes without saying that Azula cares for Zuko. I think it also goes without saying that Zuko cares for Azula too, but he's ironically worse at expressing it (within the main series at least). Because of the way the show was written, however, none of this can be explored except in supplemental material or fanworks. And supplemental material has been...lacking, I think, in that department.

There's some awesome fanworks out there that explore their dynamic, though. I really do encourage people to go back into the archives and find stuff written years ago because stuff written at the time the show was airing/right when it ended are some of the best. The show hadn't yet been lionized as much and fandom opinions of the characters hadn't yet crystallized into what they are now (and also the comics and lok didn't exist so no one had to deal with that.)

#atla

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the-badger-mole · 1 year

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What are your thoughts on Azula redemption. Like if it was done properly and she got all the help she needed. Because honestly it's hard to find good Azula redemption takes without them being stans or something

I've talked about this before (here for instance), but I don't really think Azula needs the kind of redemption people seem to want for her. I think a transformative arc would fit her better. Like, yeah, she changes, but she's not necessarily redeemed through it. First of all, I don't think she'd ever be completely sorry about what she did, and I think that's a baseline requirement for a redemption arc.

Second, in my opinion, too many of these "redemption" arcs for Azula focus on her reconciling with everyone, and I just don't think that's realistic. I see her reconciling with Zuko and maybe Iroh, but beyond that, I don't see Ty Lee coming back (I actually like to think that she found her happiness far, far away from Caldera and the messiness of court). I could see Azula not wanting Mai back. Zuko's friends don't owe Azula anything either, so it bothers me a bit when I see stories that start with Azula being best friends with everyone with no explanation or acknowledgement of how odd it is. Especially when the stories are within a year or two after the war ends. The problem here is focusing so much on the trauma Azula went through, there's no focus on the trauma she caused. And she caused a lot.

Like, A LOT.

She contributed to Zuko's years long abuse, she controls Ty Lee through intimidation and forces her into service, she pimps Mai out to get Zuko in line (although, it seemed like Mai was into it, so this might be iffy?). Then there's everything she did to the Gaang. All of this before you dig into what she was like before she joined the hunt for Aang. This is my own personal theory, and not one I necessarily expect to see in fics, but I'm 100% sure Azula did a lot of damage even before she left the Fire Nation. Intentionally or not (and tbh, it probably wasn't intentional), it's pretty heavily implied in the show that Azula has a body count off screen, and those bodies were friendly fire (i.e. Azula has killed and injured people from the Fire Nation). Beyond that, Azula seemed to enjoy what she did. I know she was victim of abuse, but she was also an abuser. Just like a bully being abused at home doesn't automatically absolve them of being a bully, Azula has a lot to answer for. None of the people she harmed are required to welcome her in with open arms.

How I would approach a transformative arc for Azula would be to tell the story over a span of years- well into her adulthood, and probably into middle age. The only one from the original show she would have a firm relationship with is Zuko, and mostly because he insists on seeing her every so often. Katara, who is obviously married to him, would tolerate Azula for Zuko's sake, but things would be cold between them, and Katara would understandably want to keep her children at a distance. Iroh would forgive her, but wouldn't be super inclined to force a connection between him and his niece. He would support Zuko's efforts, though. Azula wouldn't live in Caldera. If she doesn't end up imprisoned after the war, I think she would end up semi-exiled to one of the outer islands of the Fire Nation. There she would build a new life for herself, and rediscover her humanity. She might come to regret more of her actions, but I think ultimately she'd end up absolving herself and not really care about making amends to anyone outside of Zuko (and maybe Iroh. Maybe).

Personally, I'm not super interested in punishing Azula, but I want there to be heavy consequences for her actions. I want the validity of people not wanting her in their lives to be acknowledged. I want to see how she navigates her life post war after losing everyone and everything. I want to see her carving out a place for herself that doesn't have much, if anything, to do with her life in Caldera. If she can make amends to one or two people from her past, that's fine, but it needs to take into consideration that she hurt them, and not just be them accepting her back because she "wasn't herself", because she was herself when she hurt them. I want Azula's redemption arc to be messy and imperfect and incomplete.

Well, either that, or I want to see her go full power trip and try to take power from her brother in an epic and tragic final battle between the siblings, because who doesn't like Shakespearean drama with elemental magic, amirite?

#atla #azula #azula's redemption arc #no one owes azula anything #and i think her next #THE YEAR OF CONTENT!!!!

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hello-nichya-here · 1 year

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Who's more deranged in your experience; Those Zvtara stans or those Azula antis? By those I mean the ones who take their love/hate towards a fictional ship/character and harass people about it

Oh, that's a tough one because both groups are pretty simmilar, AND tend to overlap.

They're both weirdly obsessed with the "bad genes" of Zuko's family and how to fix it to the point that I'm waiting for them to end posts with a sieg heil, very willing to straight up lie about what happened in canon, think that harassing people is the same as explaining their point, have no idea how trauma actually works, zero sympathy for any character that isn't their fave, lots of projecting, LOTS of sexism (and ableism, though that one is mostly from the Azula antis), etc.

However, I think the bad apples of the Zutara fandom win. Sure, the Azula antis are awful, but at least the character they hate WAS indeed a villain that we were supposed to be angry at/root at against during most of the story, and unfortunately the writers themselves encouraged their bad behavior when they did things like call Azula fans a cult for daring to feel compassion for the deeply traumatized, mentally ill, 14-year-old child soldier that was let down by every adult in her life.

Meanwhile with Zutarians, they took a look at two characters that barely interacted for 90% of the show, and decided "This is clearly a love story, not the ship has been set up in the first episode", and not only do they ignore anything that doesn't fit their narrative just like the Azula antis, and took a step further and did things like creating fake interviews with the head-writer, Aaron Ehasz (who ships Maiko) in which he would "confirm" that Zutara was meant to be endgame all along but evil Bryke forced everyone to write Kataang at the last second instead - and even though the guy already said over and over "This interview is fake, Kataang was always going to be a thing" they just... ignore that and pretend it totally is legit.

It reached a point where it went beyond just bad faith interpretation of a story/character to confirm their own bias, and became a full on conspiracy theory with the people who believe in it being completely unwilling to accept any evidence that proves them wrong, flat-eathers style.

The worst Azula antis are 90% just gross, misonystic , ableist idiots that don't like that she dared to rival their favorite character and win most of the time - something pretty much any fandom has. The worst zutarians live in an alternate reality, to the point that I'm legit worried about their mental health. It's a level of "What the actual fuck?" that I don't think anyone else in the Avatar fandom ever quite reached.

#asks #anti zutara #azula deserved better

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juniperhillpatient · 3 months

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given all your regrets about Happenstance and Community and your love for Jeff and Annie who are based on Jet and Azula do you wish you had done more with Jet and Azula? I always ship them in your stories

Well just to be clear I’m very proud of & happy with Happenstance - I only “regret” not doing certain things when I’m rewatching a show that gave it heavy inspiration or think of a sub plot I could’ve used & it’s like “MAN I could’ve done this or that or done more with this character!”

That’s an interesting question though because…. Not exactly? I’m happy with what I did I think it worked well. A hot take I have as a Jeff / Annie stan is that the show did Exactly as Much as it Should’ve with THEM.

I consistently say it but I love ships that are kinda…..about the what if or what could’ve been of it all?

I love ships where only the worst versions of themselves can actually be together Like that friendship where it always isn’t the right time for romance or it’s healthier or better to make it platonic but something is clearly going on. Or even “it’s weirder that they aren’t boning.”

I’m not really a romance girly. I have said it before & I will again while I LIKE “shipping” sure, but… I don’t quite think I engage with it the same way as a lot of people in fandom. I just…. Like to explore different dynamics? That’s all. It’s not about endgame “romance” per se for me which is why I function best in fandom as a multishipper & love polyamory & different timelines & aus & what ifs!

I kinda (ok not kinda. I’m biased. I do) feel like Jet & Azula had the best dynamic within Happenstance & so part of me is like “ugh their fling should’ve lasted longer!” or “I should’ve given them a brief time as an actual couple” or… idk any number of options?

But also…. At the end of the day could I have “done more”? I did a lot. I would say that in Happenstance the friend group as a whole is the main most important dynamic (or at least that was my intention as the writer) & then you have the main romances especially Azutara & of course the individual bonds & specific dynamics especially the fire siblings or those specific friendships like Mai & Toph that kinda stand out & I’d argue Jet & Azula might stand out the most in that last regard. Like Jet & Azula got a LOT of spotlight in Happenstance. A lot.

So… do I wish I’d “done more”? Wellllll…. No. given my total love for the dynamic I often ponder if I should at some point just write an actual fic where the two actually get together or something & then I think…. Nahh, at that point the dynamic loses its whole appeal for me unfortunately 😜

If you remember the chapter “such good people” that really sums up the appeal of Jetzula for me 😂 like…. It’s genuinely so much weirder that they’re not having sex. They’re so much more weird & insane than that. You know what? I’m having a thing lately (even more than usual) where I just say my honest to god thoughts & self promo my shit recklessly & without shame & I’m linking the damn chapter for context X haha

So. TLDR: naur lol

I will say this. Thank you! For the ask & also for shipping Jetzula you’re a real one for that ♥️

#happenstance #anon #community rewatch #does…. this answer make any modicum of sense #I’m ramblinnnnn #jetzula #I’m not gonna tag jeff Annie given the post isn’t as directly about them lol

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wvsteria · 2 years

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so i wanted to take this time to do a text call. but i’m doing it v specifically so as to not add like a million threads to my drafts lol.

guidelines are as follows!

text requests are to only be from muses that would plausibly have each other’s phone numbers and have probably texted before.

must have some kind of context to it like to talk about a plot point or just not be empty chatter. (this is to help with limiting how many text threads are floating around so i can focus on my actual threads)

requests are limited to 4 per mun !

though there is no limit to how many texts i’ll do for each of my muses

sabina palpatine ( @svnlvght )

bail organa ( @svnlvght )

#hw: starter call

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arysthaeniru · 2 years

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I got tagged by @omicheese, SO long ago, to write a list of 10 favourite characters, each from a different media! This is so hard!

1. Kira Nerys - Deep Space 9

One of the most complex, interesting characters in the show, who balances trauma, badassery and vulnerability really well. I adore how much thought Nana Visitor put into her personality; her struggles with religion, compromise and leadership are genuinely great to watch. Also she is such a closeted lesbian and it is a disaster to watch her date bland white man after bland white man, seeking a safe man after a lifetime of fear, not realizing she's been in love with Jadzia this whole time...

2. Haruka Sawamura - Yakuza

Although the writers never want to acknowledge her trauma, I find her people-pleasing and her forced happiness such a fascinating part of her. Having to deal with essentially becoming the emotional crutch to Kiryu at such a young age because Kiryu can't process his own emotions well, and then essentially being the second parent at the orphanage as Kiryu keeps running off to Kamurocho, and then becoming an idol in order to save her orphanage from debt, even though being an idol wasn't really her dream anyway... She's so interesting, and the way she swallows her trauma and takes in all the wrong lessons from Kiryu's arcs makes her genuinely so good and interesting!

3. Artemy Burakh - Pathologic

For all that I have...problems with parts of Pathologic especially when it comes to depiction of the Kin, Artemy really is such an interesting, nuanced protagonist. His journey of figuring out what it means to balance honouring his indigenous heritage while also navigating the racism of his society and also grief of losing his father while also acknowledging his father's mistakes, and managing this new family of children he's stumbled upon, as well as trying to revive old friendships....it really is such a great arc, and I love him. His arc is about love, even though he doesn't think he's worthy of it. (But also Taya and Capella are also here in spirit because I love them SO much).

4. Edelgard von Hresvelg - Fire Emblem

My little revolutionary meow meow! I love how determined yet conflicted Edelgard is as a person, certain of the arc of her story, but uncertain what the exact beats must be. When it comes down it, I love characters who think of themselves as weapons learning what it is to be human again! It's such a vulnerable, interesting process to entangle, and her friendships and her relationships are always so delightful to think about. Edelgard's arc in Three Houses is about the fallacy of red-brown alliances in leftist politics, actually, and how it can harm your own cause and compromise your vision ❤

5. Aino Minako - Sailor Moon

Mina-chan is such a fun supporting character. I love how ditzy and absent-minded she is for things she doesn't care about, and yet how determined and unrelenting she is about her dreams and ambitions. I loved her grappling with what she really wants from life, having been a Sailor Scout for the longest time and wondering what else she wants to be, who else she could become! I also LOVE her willingness to date four or five people at a time—she is the avatar of love, after all.

6. Riju - Breath of the Wild

My baby! I have no idea why she's in charge, nothing about the Gerudo politics seems to imply that they have a hereditary monarchy, so really, there's no reason for a 15 year old to be in charge, but logic be damned. I see a precocious child burdened with the weight of legacy and responsibility and I have to stan them. (It's why Taya and Capella were shortlists for my fave from Pathologic). The themes are too good and she's one of the best units in Hyrule Warriors. I wish she had better clothes though, she deserves a skirt that actually covers her legs.

7. Azula - Avatar the Last Airbender

My first crush ever, I continue to stan evil women with great senses of fashion!! I find her such an intriguing character and although the show often spends time telling us Azula is clever and manipulative instead of showing us (the Ba Sing Se arc made...zero sense), she's such a clear threat and powerhouse and yet so vulnerable and on the edge at the same time. She is the ultimate representation of how the Fire Nation's fascism has destroyed the idea of childhood altogether, and I think her menace is only added to by the fact that she's deeply emotional about her people, even as she cruelly manipulates them to do her bidding.

8. Anthy Himemiya - Revolutionary Girl Utena

It's about the cycles, it's about the victimhood, its about finding power in being reviled, even as it rips you apart, it's about taking humour in your imprisonment because what else can you do—and then the bright, blinding hope that comes from love and letting somebody in, giving them a chance to help set you free. I love Anthy so much, and it's so important that she's a brown woman. (Though Wakaba is close second because...Wakaba!!!!)

9. Dominic Ash - DIE Comic

DIE is genuinely one of the best comics out there, gutting and powerful and adult in all the best ways, and Ash is my problematic, manipulator fave right in the centre of it all. I love how often Ash uses their power to try and force their friends to follow their bidding and are unable to truly control the consequences of doing so, driving all but Isabelle away. I love how afraid they are of their power corrupting them, yet taking the plunge anyway, for the sake of the greater good. And I love their struggles with love, parenthood and the escapist fantasy of being powerful and desired within the role-playing game, and not necessarily wanting to go back to real life.

10. Glimmer - She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

Glimmer's such a fun character, desperate to be grown up enough to take on the revolutionary fight and desperate to get better at controlling her own magic and so desperately jealous of her friends' power and terrified she's inadequate and they'll leave her. I love her parallels with Catra and Adora, I adore her thrill-seeking tendencies and her extreme desire to be above-all-else helpful. I love how easily she pushes herself over her limits for the sake of her friends, and how disastrous those choices usually are... also her character design is top-tier.

With absolutely zero-pressure involved, I tag @iammissingautumn @ishtarstripdying @corvidfeathers @touchmycoat @ghostlyeris and anybody else who is interested and wants to do this!!!

#meme thingies #honorary mentions are #joan watson from elementary bc holy shit her character arc is so good #trowa barton from gundam wing bc it is so fun to watch him be so competent and open his heart to being human again #kashima from gsnk because she is just so flouncy and ridiculous and i love her #and ling from fma because he's just so fun and calm in the face of danger

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wingsfreedom · 3 years

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Why azulon fics are so bad like i never read one myself but seeing these asks and summaries make me scared of checking one

I thought Zutara and Mailee are the fics that treat Azula the worst, but honestly "fanon goodish grandpa Azulon" fics have beat them both combined to the top spot. I think this kind of take is truly where Zuko-centric morality has hit its nadir. Besides, what a good grandfather mean in their eyes is NOT Azulon being caring and decent to both of his grandchildren, but through him taking Zuko as a "favorite" and dismissing Azula.

It's a direct response to Azula being Ozai's favorite, like a child hiding behind the other "bigger" adult and stick out their tongue at their "bullies". But it's hilarious since Zuko’s ground with being the favorite of Azulon against Azula (if we gonna play that game) is even more shaky than being Ozai's scapegoat. (Remember: Ozai restored Zuko's honor and crown prince status) Azula has the firebending that matches Azulon's prodigious own, and even surpass it. It's impressive, well-mastered, controlled from the basic moves to the fire bending itself and, in everyway, perfect. Unlike Zuko's. Azula memoried her history lessons perfectly. Unlike Zuko. And her strategic mind shown it's brilliance in the takeover BSS in a single day and the defense strategy in the DoBS that not only protected the capital, it's Fire Lord and the citizens but also defeated and captured the invasion force, again something warmonger Azulon would find very valuable for world domination, his main goal in life. Ozai didn't present Azula, his best creation, to Azulon in the sense he's showing off his own favorite child, but as a child Azulon would approve of, raised to his standards and expectations, and was even named after him. (which shows Azula's life wasn't really hers and this play a huge part in Azula's childhood abuse by turning her into a child solider since an early age and presented as though she's a good product not a child with human needs.) So, these stans are aware that Azula is too perfect for Azulon, which is what Ozai raised her for. Therfore to assure Azulon to be/remain goodish grandpa for Zuko a.k.a Zuko being the favorite is unchallenged, Azula has to be to be "defiled" -- throw black ink, stones, acid, teacups on the "perfect" painting; corrupt it, defile it until Azulon sees nothing good in her, until no quality about her is captivating. Azula in "fanon goodish granda Azulon" fics is not only a rotten demon child but also her skills, intelligence and firebending being portrayed as corrupted and disposable.

Fire Lord Azulon is Zuko Team! Win. And on a final note, is it worth going through all these mental gymnastics and shamless OCCess when Zuko being a first-born son and not a second-born daughter reasoning is already there on the table? You know, the taboo that made Azulon loses his mind over (though tactless and ambitious) a reasonable request. "You dare suggest I betray Iroh? My first born?"

And what he could possibly dislike about Azula is how she's more loyal to her father than she is to him and Iroh, considering what the servants could possibly report about little Azula's careless comments that he would view Azula as Ozai's complacent ally rather than a trustworthy heir.

:: Azulon's main action on-screen is ordering Zuko's death, but the way fanon shifted to "no, he actually wanted a long, happy and healthy life for his beloved grandson" is baffling.

#azula #azulon #atla #azula the scapegoat #anon

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sokkastyles · 6 months

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Iroh is likely to hold a selfish grudge against Azula forever, he absentmindedly gave her gift from imperial conquest, abandoned her to an abusive household, shows angry and contempt to her before she does anything wrong, repeatedly tells Zuko to hate her and beat her up, says she’s crazy, puts Zuko and Azula against each other, gets angry that he got burned when he backed her into a corner, tells Zuko she doesn’t love him, even after she makes a speech about how much she loves him and wants him by her side, and treats Azula like the devil, while treating Ozai with much more compassion than he deserves

he’d probably want he to be executed, have her bending taken away, etc.

He also abandoned his traumatized 16 year old nephew to rule over a country all by himself for one of the most selfish reasons ever, so he can open a damn tea shop in a city he wanted to commit genocide in, which is in another continent, he also doesn’t show up to his coronation, what a dick

he also decides not to stop the airships and instead gives that job to 3 children, so he and his cult members can selfishly “liberate” Ba Sing Se because it was his “Destiny” what an asshole

I may be harsh on Ursa, but at least she TRIED

This is why the Azula fandom can't have nice things.

He's not "likely" to hold a selfish grudge, and doesn't in canon, so that argument is moot, anyway. Iroh is actually the one who says in the comics that going with Zuko to find Ursa might be good for her, because he clearly cares about her and wants her to have that closure.

He "absentmindedly" gave her a gift? What the fuck does that even mean? Azula also very purposefully burned that gift, though, while calling her uncle a lazy fatso. Azula stans trying to downplay or justify that by saying Iroh's gift wasn't good enough is really, really ugly behavior, and not an argument I am interested in.

He doesn't show contempt for her "before she does anything wrong", he is actually polite when she shows up lying to his and Zuko's faces, but he doesn't walk into her trap because he sees straight through her. Pretending that she did nothing wrong, when she absolutely has malicious intent there, is stupid and dishonest.

Same with pretending Azula was just defending herself in the Chase, because the reason she was there is because she had mercilessly tracked down the gaang, Zuko, and Iroh. Them teaming up against her is what we call Karma.

Even then, though, Iroh isn't actually angry at Azula. Even when he says "she's crazy and needs to go down," it's delivered in a deadpan and humorous way, not an angry way, and he says it for Zuko's benefit, to tell Zuko that he is allowed to defend himself. It is not about his feelings at all.

He doesn't pit Zuko against her, or tell Zuko to beat her up. He also doesn't treat Ozai with any compassion whatsoever. That's all complete nonsense that actually hurts your argument because it's transparent that you have no actual argument.

I'm also not going to entertain any argument about Iroh opening a tea shop in Ba Sing Se because he also was instrumental in saving that city, which actually changes the whole situation, which is why you left it out. He also did not abandon Zuko. I don't agree with everything in the comics but what they actually show is Zuko not wanting to bother Iroh, but when Aang takes him to Iroh at the end, he says Zuko is always welcome there.

And lol, Ursa "tried" according to you when she's not the current target of your nonsensical rant, but I don't think for a minute that you won't try to turn your "criticisms" towards her if you think it might absolve Azula of responsibility. That's all this is, just the completely ridiculous ramblings of someone who overidentifies with a selfish and cruel character because it feeds your own victim complex. You don't want Iroh or Ursa to try to help Azula, because that won't feed said victim complex.

Again, this is why the Azula fandom can't have nice things.

#iroh #azula #zuko #ursa #the discourse

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dragynkeep · 2 years

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Something I've never understood in this fandom is the idea that Zuko was gonna actually kill Azula in the Final Agni Kai. Like that makes no sense for his and Katara's characters, and there's no evidence?? Besides I feel like stans who make this claim keep forgetting that Zuko tried to save ZHAO of all people! Why would Zuko kill his sister? I'm just so bewildered. The show makes it clear that they want to defeat her in a duel, not kill her.

the claim is so wild & i have no idea where it’s come from. zuko clearly went into that agni kai with the intention of taking her down, not murking her in cold blood like they had to do with ozai; he recognizes that even though azula is his sister, she still has to be taken care of. & that’s his responsibility, much like ozai was aang’s.

i’ve seen some azula fans claim that it was bad for zuko to challenge her to the agni kai in the first place because she clearly wasn’t mentally well & i wonder what they wanted him to do instead? azula was in the height of a psychotic break, her god complex was off the scale & she was never going to listen to someone she had spent a majority of her life beating down at every turn & demeaning, someone she regarded as a usurper. azula only ever responded to force in her life & unfortunately that’s what zuko had to use.

but yeah, the idea that zuko was going into the agni kai with the intent of murking azula in cold blood & tap dancing on her corpse to be firelord is. very wild & very dumb.

#atla #zuko #azula #katara #ais.txt #answered #q

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lightdancer1 · 3 years

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TBH one of the things that surprises me with that first AU

Given that I literally have Ozai and Ursa basically using the kind of credo among nobles that applied pretty universally. As in 'monogamy doesn't exist, nobles can and do take lovers from other ranks' with that version of Ozai basically turning a deliberately blind eye to Ikem being in the Palace at all. Which is meant to be his main 'good deed' and even then it's mostly "I refuse to be put to stud."

Meaning that this AU's Azula is Ikem's daughter and not Ozai's and it's an open secret openly blabbed to her face a few times until she finally has it reinforced in Book III. And grows up with a fine example of dramatic irony in her two siblings seeing her as Ozai's favorite and resenting her for it.

I set that up deliberately for nailbat level 'blood is not destiny, nuturing shapes it' storylines and to establish the main motif of this AU's Fire Nation Royal family, of holding onto secrets as though they're more precious than gold and then repeatedly Pikachu-facing when the secret-holding proves such an utterly bad idea.

I sincerely expected a lot of hate reviews from Zuko stans who went "Wait a minute here, you used the 'one of the Fire Hazards is not actually Ozai's kid and made it the one who had 'loyalty to Ozai' as a defining character trait? BURN THE WITCH!"

I actually did get a few reviews for the earlier chapters that blamed this AU's Ursa for being 'unfaithful' to an Ozai established very early on as being a murderous dick willing to murder infants and happy to dispose of his kids any time it suits him. Surprisingly few for the whole 'only biological son of Ozai is a kid who couldn't be less like him, while the two who aren't his kid get raised up with full indoctrination and play out their own version of the Azula-Zuko dynamic'.

But then it is the Internet and you can never tell what will piss people off.

#I am admittedly amused the whole 'Azula isn't Ozai's kid but Zuko is' angle #is not one that's led to a lot of angry reviews....yet #makes for a pretty significant irony when the kid everyone says is 'Ozai's favorite and just like her dad' isn't actually his #and the one that actually is is one of the more unambiguously Good Guy Zukos I've written #which is 100% ironic and meant to subvert the 'blood is destiny' line that Avatar canon says #but so far other than a few reviews in the first story this angle hasn't led to the kind of reactions I've expect it to get #could be I'm too cynical in this case LOL

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tsukihimeyfan · 4 years

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Sorting the main cast of AtLA into Hogwarts Houses

I know I’m late to the party because I’ve seen many different people tackle this before, but I feel like it is my civic duty as both a Potterhead and an AtLA stan to put in my two cents, since every single time I’ve seen it talked about people either misinterpret what each House values in their members or pick a House by taking into account only one aspect of their personalities. I want to make it clear that these are my own opinions, which I’m basing on the definitions we’ve gotten of the main traits of each House over the years and the “core values” of each AtLA character, and that I’m in no way am I trying to insult anyone who thinks differently. That being said, here goes nothing!

Let’s start with the easy ones. Namely, the Fire Siblings:

1) Azula is 100%, undoubtedly, definitely, incontrovertibly Slytherin. Just doing a quick rundown of the qualities Salazar Slytherin prized in his handpicked students, as stated by the Sorting Hat, Albus Dumbledore and Pottermore: Cunning? Check. Resourcefulness? Check. A disregard for rules? Check. Using any means to achieve her ends? Check. Shrewdness? Check. Ambition? Check. Self-preservation? Check. Pride? Check. An argument could even be made that, as a member of the Fire Nation Royal Family, Azula also kind of meets the “blood purity” criteria. I’m sure most of us agree on this. Even if she does exhibit a lot of loyalty to her father as well as courage and intelligence, there is just no contest. Azula is one of the most Slytherin characters I’ve ever seen outside of the Harry Potter universe.

2) In the same way, Zuko is irrefutably a Hufflepuff. Hear me out! I know that he’s very brave and daring, but when we think of Zuko, what is his most essential trait, what do people tell us again

and again

about Zuko’s character?

He’s a hard worker. And what’s the House of the hard-working?

"You might belong in Hufflepuff, Where they are just and loyal, Those patient Hufflepuffs are true, And unafraid of toil.”

You guessed it. Hufflepuff. Of course, that’s not the only trait valued by this House that he exhibits. Who is more loyal in the series than the child who got half his face burned off and still did his best to earn the love and respect of the one responsible? Who never faltered in his loyalty even when he was sent away on an impossible mission? Who spouted angry words most of the time yet was willing to let his ticket home go temporarily in favor of ensuring the safety of his Uncle and his crew? That’s right, our boy Zuko. That very loyalty to his father is what unfortunately bound him for the longest time, until he was forced to face what a monster he was and let go of it in favor of more important things, namely his own morals and his loyalty to his Uncle.

He also has an incredibly strong sense of justice, as proven by the above statements, as well as this moment:

and he can be incredibly patient when he needs to be, as seen during The Blue Spirit and the Southern Raiders episodes.

Hufflepuffs are also said to be fair (which he clearly is), dedicated (need I say more?), honest (which Mr. shouts-his-feelings-at-the-top-of-his-lungs and can’t-lie-without-being-obvious-or-glancing-away-and-has-been-found-out-every-time-he-tried of course is) and modest (this one he starts without but by the time he joins the Gaang there isn’t anyone more modest or humble)

As “an idealist with a pure heart and unquestionable honor” , Zuko is the Hufflepuffiest Hufflepuff to ever Hufflepuff and I will die on this hill

3) Another easy one is our girl Suki, whom I’d say is a Gryffindor through and through, even if she is very loyal to her friends.

The rest of the Gaang under the cut.

The other members of Team Avatar are a bit trickier because they all exhibit a pretty even mix of traits from more than one House, but still if we just concentrate on their defining characteristics we can get to an answer.

4) I’d argue that Sokka belongs in Ravenclaw, even though he is of course quite brave and extremely loyal to his loved ones, not only because he’s a strategist and an inventor, but also because, as best stated by Master Piandao:

Ravenclaws most value wit, learning, intelligence, creativity and wisdom (this last one is a bit iffy but I’m sure he’ll get there when he’s older), as well as priding themselves on being original in their ideas and methods. That’s Sokka to a T.

5) Katara gave me a hard time. She’s unbelievably loyal to her friends and family, she’s compassionate, patient, fair, hard working and dedicated, with a REALLY strong sense of justice, so a case can be made for Hufflepuff easily. However she can also be quite cunning when she wants to (most obviously during The Waterbending Scroll, City of Walls and Secrets, The Painted Lady, and The Runaway), she has a lot of ambition (if you count every variation of “I will make the world a better place by force if I have to”), she disregards the rules when it suits her (again The Waterbending Scroll as well as The Runaway) and she can be proud at times, so we could argue she’s a Slytherin. She’s also undoubtedly very intelligent and even quite wise for her age. It took me a while to decide but then I pondered; at her very core, what are the statements that define her? What words just scream “that’s it, that’s Katara”? They are, of course, these two phrases:

The first sounded incredibly Gryffindor to me, and the second is half Gryffindor half Hufflepuff, so it had to be between those two. As such, I decided to look into Gryffindor first. Katara is, of course, astoundingly courageous, but what else? I had to actually look up definitions for the Gryffindor traits besides courage because they all just kinda meant “brave” to me initially 😅, but what I found was:

*Nerve: “one's steadiness and courage in a demanding situation”. Yep. Who’s the most level-headed, steady and reliable person whenever the Gaang is in any kind of pinch? That’s right. Katara

*Daring: “adventurous or audaciously bold“. Yep. I’d say she ties with Toph for boldest in the Gaang

*Determination: “firmness of purpose”. Yep, absolutely. See the above image from the Painted Lady. ‘Nuff said.

*Chivalry: can mean 2 things, one is “sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms”. All of that is true of her (her “arms” being her waterbending), but I found it interesting that to be chivalrous can also mean “gracious and honorable toward an enemy, especially a defeated one, and toward the weak or poor”. I’d argue that this fits her even more. Once again, just take a look at The Painted Lady episode.

*Courage and bravery: they can mean the same thing, namely “the ability to do something that frightens you” and of course that fits Katara, but the word courage in particular has another meaning, which is “strength in the face of pain or grief”...

I’d say she’s pretty good at that. I think that settles it, Katara is a Gryffindor.

Turns out that when it came to the water tribe siblings Bato was right all along

6) For Toph I was split between Gryffindor (thinking of her brash, bold nature) and Slytherin for a while, but after looking into Katara and researching all those definitions I think I have to give it to Slytherin. Of course, Toph doesn’t seem to be very ambitious unless you count “being recognized as the greatest earthbender in the world”, but she is quite cunning. She knows exactly how to use her “poor helpless blind girl” persona to get what she wants, as seen both on The Blind Bandit and The Runaway. She’s also an extremely good actress, being able to play the “reserved and obedient little girl” to her parents for years, and being easily able to pick it back up when it suits her.

She’s also stubborn, proud, and 100% willing to use any means, regardless of laws or rules, to get what she wants.

As for self preservation? Remember that her response when asked to teach Aang, which was crucial to save the world but would’ve compromised her secret, was this:

Slytherins can also “hesitate before acting, so as to weigh all possible outcomes before deciding exactly what should be done “ and my first instinct was to say that it didn’t fit Toph at all, but what is Toph if not a person who “waits and listens before striking”? Slytherins tend to favor Neutral Jing it seems.

Almost forgot that as a daughter of the Beifong family she’s sort of nobility and she technically also meets the “blood purity” criteria.

7) Finally, we get to my boy Aang. He was really difficult. He’s loyal, patient, fair, kind, modest (usually) and just but I can’t really call him a hard worker most of the time.

He’s brave, adventurous, determined and chivalrous but he does tend to get discouraged during demanding or stressful situations (his friends always make it better though)

He’s creative, very wise for his age, and quite smart (except when he’s playing around with Sokka in which case they share one brain cell 😂)

He can even be cunning when he needs to be. If he ever went to Hogwarts, he’d definitely be a Hat Staller like Harry. I heard someone say once that they considered Aang a Gryffindor because he liked to show off a lot, but that’s not really a Gryffindor trait (think of Neville Longbottom, Remus Lupin, Harry Potter and Minerva McGonagall. I think any one of them would sooner Stupefy themselves than go show off their skills in front of a crowd for no reason other than to brag).

Once again, we must pin down what it is that defines him, what his core is. After much thought, I decided it’s this:

It’s his compassion, which he learned from his people, and his desire to value and protect all life. It’s his loyalty to the ideologies of the Air Nomads of which he is the last remaining bastion. It’s his strong moral code, his sense of right and wrong, his wish to make friends and to believe the best of everyone. That’s his center. That is what makes him Avatar Aang. In light of that, I think we can consider Aang, first and foremost, a Hufflepuff.

In the end, Team Avatar is made up of one Ravenclaw, one Slytherin, one Gryffindor (two after Suki joins), and two Hufflepuffs

Ironic, that the House least valued in the Harry Potter universe is the one that houses arguably the most pivotal characters of Avatar the Last Airbender: Zuko and Aang. Fitting, that even in this they parallel each other.

This is already long enough so I don’t think I’ll do Mai, Ty Lee, or Iroh. Maybe some other time.

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ly0nstea · 2 years

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"I think the asylum abuse is going to be neatly brushed under the rug, for the film unless the writers really like azula, it’ll be hard to make zuko a good protagonist if you bring up the asylum."

For the record I wrote a 200k word plus fic where Zuko finding out about the nature of the asylums is a major plot point, but I think Zuko finding out about the asylums is not incompatible with Zuko being a good protagonist. This is because I think one of the key points of Zuko's arc is that it doesn't matter how many times you fail, only that you learn from your mistakes and/or the bad situations you find yourself due to no fault of your own, before getting back up, stronger than before. And so I think Zuko finding out about the abusive nature of the asylums can lead to good character development since the process of him reforming them, as well as offering the Fire Warriors a second chance to get actual help, can show how far Zuko has come in his journey as well set Zuko up to become the celebrated Fire Lord that LoK said he became. For Zuko showing mercy to a group that humiliated him, as well as the sister that has caused him a lot of pain, would be powerful message to send to his people since if the Fire Lord is capable of mercy to the Fire Warriors, maybe his ideals of peace and kindness aren't rubish since they come from a place of strength.

"Azulas probably going to be the main antagonist, unless ozai breaks out of prison or there’s some bigger, badder spirit that relates her to second place, there’s no one else it could be without them making a new character for it and that’s impossible to speculate on."

Agreed. Assuming the Zuko movie is one of the first projects that Avatar Studios releases, they can't afford it to flop. So I think they'll play it safe and have the most iconic villain from Avatar reprise her role. That and, assuming this is post-Smoke and Shadow, there is no way they can address the new status quo without addressing Azula. And Azula is hellbent on either turning Zuko into a tyrant (if you take her words in S&S at face value) or dethroning him (if you take the TRPG descriptions at face value) so it seem pretty obvious that Azula is going to be at a bare minimum a major antagonist. Not to mention the fact that until Yakone learns 24/7 psychic bloodbending, there is no one in the world after Ozai's defeat who has the means, skills, and motive to (credibly) challenge the OP as fuck post-war Gaang.

Though, like you alluded to, the fact that she is messing around with sprits could relegate her to a minor antagonist. Unless, she gains Yun/Yakone-tier power on her own and/or fuses with a sprit, presumably during the climax, meaning Azula could be co-antagonists with said sprit(s).

"But i definitely think that there’s a pressure to ‘get rid of her’ to explain why she wasn’t in the legend of korra, seen as that’s a pretty big question from the fandom at large not just azula stans."

I see where you are coming from, but they don't necessarily have to kill her young in order to explain why she isn't in LoK. For example, she could have been in the Fire Nation the whole time, either in a prison/asylum, in the palace, living somewhere outside of Caldera City under her real name, in a care facility due to old age/deteriorating mental state, and/or she is in hiding.

In fact, one of my personal HCs is that Azula is alive during LoK, having long redeemed herself and reconciled with her family and friends, but is in a care facility since she has dementia. With Lord Zuko frequently visiting her, whenever he isn't trying to agitate for peace, in order to spend time with his beloved sister as well as make the last couple of years where Azula is still herself good for her sake.

Also, assuming Bryke wants to turn Avatar into the next Stars Wars, I don't think they are going to make Azula permanently unavailable since Azula is the most iconic villain to come out of ATLA with a massive fanbase. Meaning she could carry several series and/or movies by herself.

Anyway, sorry for my long reply, and I hope you have a good day!

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Before I go off I just wanna say props to you for writing something so long I envy you.

Now, I don't think Zuko can only be finding out about what the asylums did now, post all the comics, because that makes him at best a fucking idiot, and at worst willfully neglectful of not only Azula, but everyone other person with mental illness in the Fire Nation (which for a country coming out of a 100 year war is going to be a large majority of the population). Zuko literally went to the asylum with a portable massive throne to basically ask her one thing. (A thing she had almsot no choice in due to her situation).

I think the problem with that philosphy for Zuko's arc is that it isn't true. You can't just keep failing and getting better when you're in this level of power, when so many people rely on you. If you wanted to go down that arc, I think the only way to do it is by showing the limits of the philosphy, and showing that Zuko has done something truly irreperable to his relationship with Azula, and probably the trust of his nation as a whole. I think the best poossible outcome for them at this point is just for Zuko to leave them alone, and for Azula to stop being a terrorist and doing well, anything else. Maybe they meet up once a year for something, but thats the extent of it.

Yea, honestly I think Azula's only hope is for her to conjure a spirit thats too powerful for her to control and is forced to either work with the gaang, or shes betrayed by the spirit she conjured, which is pretty out of character for azula if you ask me but, idk, maybe its a desperate act.

I don't particularly like the idea that azula is back in an asylum or hospital at old age it feels cruel? To put her back in one idk it just doesnt sit right with me. I'd even prefer if she was at home with some sort of carer than in a hospital or old persons home.

If Azula's only future is to be a recurring, ultimately pointless go to bad go then honestly, I'd rather she get a cheap redemption through sacrifice so we can just be done with it already.

Thanks for the submission, have a good day yourself!

#submission #azula #zuko #atla #avatar #avatar the last airbender

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