i see all these comments talking about this after the new episode, but. i would like to state for the record that stolitz isn't. toxic.
first off, the concept of a toxic and a healthy relationship are such... vague terms. when you're online, drenched in language and tight moral boundaries, trying to put a nuanced story like helluva boss's into boxes is easy to attempt and impossible to do.
a toxic relationship is one where one or both parties is maliciously affecting the other. I'm talking fetid, nasty, rude interactions where there is more hurt than love. they're unhappy more often than not when they're with their partner, there's no respect or give from the other side.
stolitz is nothing like that.
Stolas actively cares about Blitz and actually has no fear or hesitation in ADMITTING IT OUT LOUD TO OZZIE. he has been calling, texting, commenting, laughing and finding ways to spend time with Blitz. he's throwing everything he has to the wind, finding the courage to move forward with the divorce, putting everything he has into trying to keep him. he's been alone in a palace since he was born, on medication, with such less people dear to him that he remembered the circus boy who spent a day with him DECADES ago- so when blitz comes into his life and brings back in laughter and color and sex, he's holding on with everything he's got.
and blitz does care!!! he cares a LOT, the whole series we see him falling in love with stolas through SHOW NOT TELL (his expressions, his choices, his fear, his lashing out) and utterly unable to process that stolas cares about him too when talking to fizz; almost a desperate kind of denial-
cause yknow. the first time he tried to confess something to someone he really liked, he accidentally killed half the people he knew and ruined the lives of the rest?
thats gonna leave just a teensy impact on the will to express your emotions in the future, methinks.
even before that, he clearly felt like on some level that he was unworthy and he's said twice that he despises himself for the accident even though it wasn't actually his fault. being self aware doesn't stop the emotions from emotioning.
he keeps insisting its only sex so urgently to anyone who doesn't ask because he can't even imagine it being anything else. he's both disappointed and relieved when he repeats that stolas sees him as a novelty, because what else can it be?
(there's a whole other spiel of how brave both Stolas and Blitz have to be to say it out loud even when asmodeus can't afford to, considering how publically and completely beaten down both were at the club.)
(there's also another whole spiel about how frustrating it has been for ME to see all these comments over time with such bad takes based on like,, 20 min worth of info of a show that takes months to release an ep. like godDAMN have some patience?? let the story UNFOLD MAYBE? IT WAS ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE AN EXPLANATION WHY WOULD YOU CRITICIZE THINGS THAT ARENT EVEN FINISHED ESPECIALLY AN INDIE ANIMATION- i digress)
mind you, this has NOTHING to do with abuse. an abusive relationship is one where one is actively harming the other with full awareness. Stella is an abuser and their marriage is abusive.
and stolitz isn't that; it isn't even unhealthy or toxic. it's a consensual, transactional fuckbuddy relationship that slid into something more for both of them.
but!!!!! one of the main reasons for the problems that everyone looks over is-
they're in a BDSM relationship.
I can't possibly delve into dynamics without making this a 10k research paper BUT even though we've gotten only hints and costumes and dialogue- they're very clearly and undeniably in a BDSM contract. Behind the scenes of this crazy show is a whole different story, of these two delving into the most hardcore kinks out there- knifeplay, painplay, bondage.
if you've gotten into the community, if you've read a couple dozen particularly good fics by authors who know what they're talking about, hell; even if your only experience is fifty shades or 365 or whatever- you gotta know that BDSM scenes are crazy fucking emotionally heavy. there's so much that has gone down between them during their full moons that helluva can't get into!!
but you know how in so many of these popular medias and fics, the dom in the relationship is also like,, the billionaire/mafia heir/prince, etc, the one with financial and physical power? this isnt that. it has been very clearly stated that stolas is subbing, blitz is domming.
now take a moment and think about how much that fucks up the dynamics.
in stolas' eyes, blitz is a confident, dangerous individual who's an old friend and cherished memory of his, who he's trusted wholly with his safety during sex and he's lucky to have; and he has been in an abusive arranged marriage for the past eighteen Years, he's probably not going to be pushing his luck with his dom that much in the first place. plus, blitz is never cowed by him during their conversations- think back to the first phone call right after he stole the book, completely unafraid.
and for blitz, it's someone trusting him again- but it's also a royal- a blue blood who's nearly untouchable and so much more powerful- who couldn't possibly like a piece of shit like him, apart from the sex he gets out of it. he only flirts once he gets some sort of cue from Stolas; he's desperately trying to view this as only a Goetia trying to get his rocks off, despite all the evidence to the contrary, because anything else is unfathomable to him, no matter how clearly Stolas shows it, because of the ptsd.
both of them thinks the other has the power. both of them aren't expecting the other to keep shut if something's bothering them.
and there's so much conflicting messages from the other too!
stolas calls him a plaything when trying to intimidate the humans; stolas cups his face gently and asks if he's alright
blitz asks him on a date and tells him to get better soon; blitz yells that it's only sex and doesn't reply to his messages
ya see?
bring it to fizzozzie for a second now; even though they do look all good on surface, you can still see fizz's trauma and doubt in all their interactions, they're still forced to keep the relationship secret. do you see his face when Ozzie says in hyperbole that he's never leaving the house again, or when someone accuses him of being a pampered house pet or when he got sexualized in the 7th ep? whatever happened in the interim between the accident with mammon, it fucked him UP. even though oz seems to be well aware of this when he tells him not to apologise and in their general interactions, fizz still visibly has trouble separating plaything/commodity from healthy relationship.
shout the fuck out to Ozzie btw, man knows whats UP. rooting for these two so much omg.
i forgot where I was going with this point, I'll edit it when i remember. but yeah! lovely fucking relationship, but damn what angst filled issues.
anyway, to sum up- stolitz is not a toxic relationship. the relationship is stuck sludging through misunderstandings and careless microaggressions and trauma responses, but it's not unhealthy or toxic because of the simple reason that most of the current hurt comes from... a misunderstanding. stolas didn't realise blitz would need reassurance about what they were and blitz didn't see stolas as someone who could get hurt.
unecessarily calling it toxic, even online, is more impactful than people think too. almost all spindlehorse ARE on all social medias; so MANY YouTube animators i know have found jobs there; they see your words, especially since a lot don't tag posts with "anti hb" correctly to keep them out of the main tag. there are Very few queer medias made BY queer people that haven't gone through heavy corporate revisions- helluva boss is practically a historical landmark in its success. it's very very very fucking easy to forget that not ten years ago some of the only queer videos on YouTube were butter lover (one kiss at the end post credits), dirty paws and welcome to hell (subtext).
the amount of "critical talk" helluva boss gets for what it is is very unprecedented. it's a beautiful show. can't wait for the next episode.
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Hey, I started reading Robin son of Batman because of your recommendation (I literally have a print of your post on my phone to not forget lol). Honestly? One of the best things I ever read!!!
Thank you for opening my eyes! Damian has been one of my favorite characters for over a year, but I didn't read/watch much of him because of school, life (and probably an executive dysfunction in the mix).
Maya is incredible. I loved her.
I haven't finished all the issues yet, but do you have any other recommendations?
WAH this makes me so happy, i'm glad you still gave it a shot even with how busy life is!! ;v;
i’d love to give reccs, and i’ll try to go a beginner friendly route! tbh you can pick up whatever here, but since you've read R:SOB i’d immediately follow up with Batman and Robin (2011) #1-8! this first arc is what’s referred to in Maya’s introduction, and it's just. so good.
Main Books
Batman and Robin (2009)
Dick as Batman with Damian as his Robin!
#20-22 Tree of Blood: Dark Knight vs White Knight arc is done by Tomasi and Gleason, the team for the next Batman and Robin series
*Batman and Robin (2011)
Bruce and Damian figuring out their relationship as both Batman & Robin and father & son
imo you can enjoy the ride and read straight through this but i’ll add context to avoid as much confusion as possible since there’s the occasional tie-in or offscreen events, like Damian’s death nbd
Batman Incorporated (2012) #1-10
events leading to Damian's death - affects Batman and Robin (2011) from issue #18
kind of a tough read especially with how Talia's written, but a lot of iconic bits like Batcow, Damian's vegetarian declaration, Alfred the cat, "We Were the Best, Richard."
Robin (2021)
another self-discovery adventure, particularly after Alfred’s death and a fallout with Bruce (and questionable writing choices from his last Teen Titans run)
Batman and Robin (2023)
currently ongoing! after a number of events, Bruce and Damian are back as a duo
Damian Dynamics!
Batman: Streets of Gotham (2009) #7, 10-12
arc where Damian meets one of his first Gotham friends, Colin Wilkes
Batgirl (2009) #5-7, #17
Steph and Damian dynamic! "the bad cop, worse cop" dysfunctional duo
Red Robin (2009) #13-14
early Tim and Damian dynamic that of course includes fighting haha. funny enough, accidentally my first intro to Damian LOL
Teen Titans (2003) #89-92
Dick!Batman has Damian join the Teen Titans. Start of Damian and Rose Wilson dynamic that’s extended in Robin (2021)
Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)
Damian meets Cass and has a brief team up
Gotham Academy (2015) #7
Damian meets Maps Mizoguchi! they have a few other meetings, but outside of that the series itself is a great read!
Robin War Event (2015)
Robin War (2015) #1, Grayson (2014) #15, Detective Comics (2011) #47, We Are Robin (2015) #7, Robin: Son of Batman (2015) #7, Robin War (2015) #2
Duke and Damian dynamic! not exactly beginner friendly but these are the main issues in order for the event! you can also read the TPB version for everything including Tie-Ins
Nightwing (2016) #16-20, #42, #43
#16-20 Nightwing and Robin arc!
#42 Dick on a mission to save Damian! the one appearance of "Wiggles" the dragon
#43 Dick, Roy, and Damian team-up
New Talent Showcase 2018 "Catwoman: Pedigree"
Selina, Damian, and Alfred the cat
Batman: Prelude to the Wedding - Robin vs. Ra's Al Ghul (2018)
Selina, Damian, and Cheese Viking - Damian's fav game shown in Nightwing: Rebirth (2016)
Monkey Prince (2022) #1-4
Marcus Sun Shugel-Shen's main comic, but Damian features as a fun dynamic here before they're in more serious circumstances in Batman VS Robin (2022)/Lazarus Planet event
Superman (2016) #10 - 11
the beginning of the Super Sons! featuring Maya!
Super Sons (2017)
solitary arcs but there’s a few event tie-in issues later
Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)
literally more Super Sons adventures lol galactic shenanigans yeehaw
Challenge of the Super Sons (2020)
Super Sons time shenanigans feat. the Justice League
Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)
"Boy Wonders" - brief Damian feature as Tim considers his next step in life
"My Best Friend" - Jon's thoughts on Damian and their dynamic
"Bat and Mouse" - refers to Damian's unfortunate Teen Titans (2016) run at the time of release which follows up with Teen Titans Annual #2 where Damian briefly gives up Robin
Extra Comics!
Superman/Batman (2003) #77
Kara and Damian in a Halloween team-up! also the appearance of "Li'l Matches" lol
DCU Halloween Special '09 "Cavity Search"
Damian out on a solo mission for Halloween night. Immediately after is Tim's Red Robin story "Then and Now: Our Father's Sins" which is more somber in contrast but also a good read!
DCU Halloween Special 2010 "Robin the Vampire Slayer"
a Dick!Batman and Robin story featuring the vampire Andrew Bennett
Cursed Comics Cavalcade (2018) "The Devil You Know"
Halloween themed comic with a sweet short story of Damian alongside Solomon Grundy
DC's Terrors Through Time (2022)
"Trick or Treat" a Super Sons Halloween story
"The Haunting of Wayne Manor" Damian and Deadman story - in the end, Boston kinda refers to Nezha's possession of Damian in Batman VS Robin (2022) which was happening at the time of this release
Batman: Li'l Gotham (2013)
lighthearted series that instantly makes me smile with the silliness and Dustin Nguyen’s art i love this dearly
Secret Origins (2014) #4 "A Boy's Life"
a retelling of Damian's origin story
Detective Comics (2016) #1001-1005
Batman and Robin vs the Arkham Knight (unrelated to the game)
Truth & Justice (2021) #6/#16 - 18 Digital First version
cute story of Damian’s birthday! Juni Ba’s art is so fun!!
DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) “Special Delivery”
short story about Damian! and poisoned pizzas. completely forgot the artist Sami Basri drew Rebirth Damian here before catboy Damian lol Cass’s story “Sounds” is also cute! Marcus makes his first appearance in "The Monkey Prince Hates Superheroes"
DC VS Vampires (2021)
Damian makes appearances throughout this elseworlds book, but the one-shot DC VS Vampires: Hunters (2022) is vampire Damian-centric!
Batman: Black and White (2021) #5
“Father & Son Outing” short story written and drawn by Jorge Jimenez!
Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #20-23
#20 “My Son” Talia and Bruce focus
#20 - 23 “The Murder Club” 4 Parts
Tiny Titans (2008) #33, #39, #45, #47
a few appearances but SO CUTE, LOOK AT HIM
*Batman and Robin (2011) reading guide
i'm mostly trying to avoid the "what did i just walk in on?" kinda feeling when i first started reading comics LOL i'll list the comics where events take place, but you don't necessarily have to read them to go through this book since things are usually explained as quickly as possible in the first page or so
#0 Someday Never Comes
Talia and baby Damian before he grows up to meet Bruce
#1-8 Born to Kill
just an incredibly solid arc for Bruce and Damian!
#9 Court of Owls Tie-In Issue
Damian VS a Court of Owls Talon. While Bruce is occupied with a home invasion of Talons, Alfred makes a call for allies to protect targeted Gotham public figures from Talons. During Batman (2011) #1-11
#10-12 Terminus
Damian challenges the previous Robins sans Steph
Batman Incorporated (2012) is occurring at this time where Talia has placed a bounty on Damian and there's small mentions of that
#13-14 Eclipsed/Devoured
mostly solitary arc! end of it leads into the Death of the Family event
#15-16 Death of the Family Tie-In Issues
Damian and Joker face-off... Alfred's been kidnapped by the Joker, and Damian goes looking for him. During Batman (2011) #13-17
#17 Life is but a Dream - Death of the Family Epilogue
a sort of subconscious check-in through the dreams of Damian, Alfred, and Bruce. Nightwing (2011) #17 features Damian encouraging Dick after Death of the Family events
#18 Undone "Requiem"
Bruce dealing with Damian's death from Batman Incorporated #8
other reactions to Damian's death: Dick in Nightwing (2011) #18, Tim in Teen Titans (2011) #18
#19-23 Denial, Rage, The Bargain, Despair, Acceptance
Bruce through the stages of grief with some batfam appearances in each. also introduces Carrie Kelley into continuity as Damian's acting tutor.
Batman (2011) #19-20 also addresses Bruce's loss
#23.1-23.4
these could be skipped - villain stories, also related to Forever Evil event.
#24-28 The Big Burn
optional Batman and Two-Face/Harvey Dent arc, #23.1 is part of this story!
Damian's resurrection and return
#29-32 The Hunt for Robin
Ras took Talia and Damian's bodies from their graves, and Bruce goes after him.
-> Robin Rises: Omega
continues events from #32. if you don't want to jump to this, basically, Glorious Godfrey and a bunch of parademons from Apokolips are here for a chaos shard which Ra's put in Damian's sarcophagus. at some point, Bruce gets a hold of the shard where he sees a vision that leads him to believe Damian can be resurrected. Godfrey ends up taking the shard, along with Damian's body since it was emitting the same energy.
#33-37 Robin Rises
Bruce hellbent on retrieving Damian from Apokolips and reviving him
-> Robin Rises: Alpha
necessary to read and continues events from #37! Damian's back with a bang lol
#38-40 Superpower
Damian adjusting to having superpowers and being alive again
Annual #1 2013 Batman Impossible
sweet (and funny) one-shot of Damian sending Bruce on a meaningful scavenger hunt around the world while Damian gets to be the cutest Batman for a bit
Annual #2 2014 Batman and Robin: Week One
one-shot takes place during Damian's absence. after Bruce and Alfred find a mystery gift left for Dick, Dick recounts a story he had told Damian from his Robin days.
Annual #3 2015 Moonshot
one-shot Batman and Robin adventure on the moon!
...and of course after Batman and Robin (2011), Damian's story continues in his first solo Robin: Son of Batman (2015)!
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