#transformers analysis

[dailymothanon]

No art today cuz I’m out on a lil trip; but I did make this awhile ago 🤔 some of it may be incorrect btw but I’m no engineer or expert at this… just read a lil bit on this and found it interesting cuz I was wondering about the bits on Soundwave’s back and if they could move like typical seeker wings 🤔 conclusion ??? Idk at all 😏 like ik the hc with wings being a lil sensitive but you’re telling me my girl is out there practically kicking people with her wing legs⁉️ but yknow I’m just wondering what headcanons could come outta the ruddervons/ruddervators… I think it’s interesting

[dezmolad]

what makes Ultra Magnus/Minimus Ambus so interesting for me is often spotting similarieties and differences between how this Magnus Armor changes the behaviour of Minimus Ambus. There is a lot of the impact here and I feel like I can't escape writing about it one day it's what makes the similarities even more interesting. Bc despite getting into a different persona some traits and impusles remain and it makes them look significant.

here's the example of one of my favourite shared behaviour:

Both Ultra Magnus and Minimus Ambus express this kind of protectiveness over Rodimus in gestures. It speaks volumes that even if Minimus is so much less imposing without the armor he still keeps this act around Rodimus.

It isn't anything surprising, after what Magnus said on Hedonia

but I still think those gestures adds depth to it, how Magnus can became Minimus and still express the sentiment in the same way.

[eashgirl]

Can we spare a moment to appreciate how sweet Regen One Shockstar and their relationship is?

Regen One is a continuation of the original Marvel(US) comics.

By Regeneration One, They had both lost their bodily autonomy, Starscream didn't really have much awareness and could not speak anything coherently after being essentially lobotomized by Megatron and Shockwave couldn't tether himself from the ship because it had become a part of him.

They were both in horrible situations all around and helped eachother regain their autonomy, Shockwave removed the blocks Megatron had placed in Starscream's mind, but he did not have complete autonomy himself and required a pilot, and when Starscream volunteered to be that he did not once doubt that he wasn't being insincere at all and trusted him. Shockwave, somebody who is well known for prioritizing his logic over everything else trusted the one known notoriously for being a self serving backstabber knowing Starscream would not try to betray him and Starscream not disappointing his trust at all. And in return Starscream while being possessed by Underbase helped separate Shockwave from the Ark's body.

I think there is inherently something so sweet that this is one of the first Shockwaves who was actually emotionless at the start and throughout the series he gradually started to learn it, he actually sounds really excited to work with Starscream it's not even subtle, they were on and off partners in crime essentially.

By the time everything is over and done with, and the place was about to be destroyed Shockwave willingly with no ulterior motive decided to go back and save Starscream before they got into the ship and left, an action that surprised even himself, the first time he acknowledged that he ever felt emotion.

I am obsessed with this particular iteration of their dynamic they make me ill, their relationship can be everything you can think of whether you see them as friends, Qplatonic or more, the bond is there. It's someone who doesn't understand emotions and prioritizes logic and someone who has rarely ever had a geniune connection with anyone because he has a habit of self sabotaging every relationship he's ever had and has trouble understanding relationships outside of self gain. None of them really understand the need of forming connections besides for their own benefit yet they were still able to seamlessly work together.

It's two selfish people who for the most part prioritize their own self's survival over everyone else's, yet Shockwave still went back for Starscream. And this extended to others too as they later scoured Cybertron to see if anyone else was alive too and Starscream saved Ravage from zombie Soundwave. They were both broken people by that point, who have had a long history in the war and have fought alongside eachother for their own needs, by the time the dust settles they don't really have any fight left in them to continue the cruelty and decided to elope on the ship to have a vacation and help other species find peace, like they've discovered in eachother and their unconventional situation.

And for once that's enough. Their relationship is just so very sweet, they went from being colleagues to allies/partners to frenemies to straight up friends at the end, they're not even just tolerating eachother they geniunely enjoy the other's presence and come on it's sweet.

They ended up in an actually healthy relationship too. This is one of those ships where I'll say "you know what? Good for them"

That, and Ravage literally thinks they've both lost their minds because they've suddenly turned a 180 and became peace ambassadors after everything, honestly I don't blame him lmao. Imagine knowing these two and out of nowhere they suddenly start speaking for peace and unity, the three of them are the last decepticons alive, Starscream and Shockwave aren't really following the need of keeping the memories of the faction alive anymore so it's just Ravage.

[eisenartworks]

Transformers One Analysis: A foreshadowing of Starscream's betrayal - conflicting loyalties?

Because I've been observing the seekers a lot, and I was rewatching the end credits for Transformers One, because it got me curious where exactly they're getting branded, and if the three examples we got were Shockwave, Soundwave, and Starscream - turns out, it wasn't, it was all seekers. But! I did notice something:

*Seeker may not necessarily be Thundercracker, but with similar cockpit design (Seekers vary by cockpit design).

Observing what little we can in this shot, we do see that a good deal has it on their cockpit/chest or their shoulder:

But on the other hand, we get an explicit shot of Starscream's insignia ON his wing, and the shot is lead with that before revealing the freshly rechristened Decepticon High Command:

And I thought "that's weird".

Or maybe, it isn't that weird. Since, ofc, Starscream's insignia placement is where it's traditionally located, it's an allusion to that!

But the thing is, we also have to consider all the other factors in the context - there's a deliberateness here, an emphasis. For one, the animators didn't spare a single shot of any other seekers getting branded on their wings. They emphasized that they got it on their chest or their shoulders, and it's odd! Because in any other transformers media, seekers also get it on their wings! Are you telling me they couldn't be bothered to show at least one who had it branded there?

But the thing is, the movie is rife with intentional details. It's a movie that encourages you to observe. And with what you observe, you question. And the scene wants you to ask the question:

Why is it significant to show deliberately that seekers got branded on their chest/shoulders? Why is it significant that Starscream got branded on his wings but not his cockpit unlike any other seeker?

My theory: loyalty.

Which is an insane thing to accuse Starscream to have considering his, uh, established precedence of treachery in all transformers media, BUT HEAR ME OUT AND CHECK THE CONCEPT ART FOR THE SEEKERS, OR RATHER, THEIR COCKPITS:

Ofc, the other seekers are simply a mix and match of these examples, but I also want you really look at Thundercracker and Skywarp:

Checking T.C.'s and Skywarps resective cards, the symbol of their cockpit matches with Starscream:

"But wait, maybe it just matches with any other seeker?" I considered it as well, but I think the emblem isn't just there for decoration. Why do I think so? Because of Skywarp; he has the same cockpit design as Slipstream and two others, but he's the only one with an emblem. Why?

Me, I think that emblem is a symbol of the High Guard - the cockpit design on Starscream isn't just for aesthetic, it's there to show he was the leader, and the High Guard served the Primes. Thundercracker and Skywarp also has these emblems to set them apart with the other seekers, and traditionally, they were Starscream's teammates (or trine in fanon terms). It explicitly tells us that Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp are to be grouped together.

Here's the thing: Starscream on first watch seems like the typical Starscream, but there's something more than meets the eye with him (lol). We can debate how effective his leadership is back when he used to lead to and fro or what his actual moral allegiance is considering by joining the Decepticons and when he attacked Iacon, he's betraying everything the Primes stood for, but weirdly enough, I DO think he is genuinely loyal to the Primes. Considering the movies theme of 'Fall from Grace', Megatron isn't actually the only example of it in the film - the High Guard is too.

Questionable effectiveness aside, I would like to point out the High Guard didn't serve Sentinel. Or more explicitly, Starscream doesn't beg Sentinel for mercy or to be spared to try to bargain his way into gaining power (let's be real, we all can think of a Starscream who would absolutely do that), instead he viciously threatens Sentinel, even when set on execution. Another thing I want to point out, is that if the High Guard was only fighting Sentinel JUST so they could get their high status back, then they could have just. Served him? If they truly don't have any moral backbone, they could have just bargained with Sentinel to keep their status and comfort and still do High Guard things with a "Prime". And it's a win-win for both groups too - Sentinel gets to have an elite force to be his enforcers for his regime, the High Guard gets to keep their status and safe from any retribution. But they didn't. Instead, they chose exile on the dangerous surface with little to no energon, hiding from Sentinel and the Quintessons, all the while trying to survive with incessant threat of death hanging over their heads, potentially killed by their environment, their enemies, or starvation.

Which makes me assume some things: while definitely no longer good people, there's some lines they won't cross, Starscream included; they're not motivated by status, they're motivated by revenge on Sentinel; it seems they're loyal to who the Primes ARE, not to the system the Primes' established.

Which brings to my theory: Starscream DOES betray Megatron, but not because out of greed for power, but rather for a good and understandable reason, and because Starscream still holds some belief in the Primes' ideals and what the High Guard used to fight for.

That's the significance on why Starscream has the Decepticon insignia on his wings - not on his cockpit, where he could brand the Decepticon insignia over the High Guard emblem, not below the emblem, where both symbols exist in equal measure, but on his wings, the farthest away from his chest, leaving his High Guard emblem in full, untouched view.

[a-blog-for-venting-i-guess]

Optimus’ attitude towards Megatron’s betrayal at the end of tf one is very ironic when you take into account earthspark’s premise. (I know they’re separate continuities but hear me out)

TF One’s ending shows Optimus does not think any relationship with Megatron is salvageable. Even before the final fight, Optimus’ first words are,

“We could’ve built the future together.”

Megatron doesn’t process it until the banishment, (his answer to this, “I’ll build it myself,” before charging to attack, and his later shock at the banishment, suggest to me he didn’t even realize that Optimus wasn’t offering some form of Olive Branch or forgiveness) but it’s clear to me Optimus had already given up on his best friend. There was no going back to what they had. But at the same time, part of Optimus desperately wants Megatron to understand why he also chose to let go.

“We could’ve built the future together.”

“We were given the power to change our world but you chose to destroy it, just like Sentinel. You betrayed cybertron and its citizens. And you betrayed… me.”

“It didn’t have to end this way.”

Yet as always, Megatron refuses to take any of the blame.

“This isn’t over… Prime.”

Optimus even had an internal monologue about it. The conflict is key. He acknowledges the line between friend and foe can be blurry but is adamant that once it’s crossed, there can be no going back.

“The line between friend and enemy is not as clear as I once believed. Once it’s crossed, there is no going back, because some transformations are permanent.”

This line is especially fun to think about with Earthspark’s existence. Yes, they are separate continuities, but regardless, it proves Optimus in Transformers One IS WRONG. People can change. They can see they screwed up and try to make amends. It is possible for Megatron to do this.

Whether or not TF One Optimus is willing to give his Megatron another chance should said Megatron ever see the error in his ways is another layer to this. One that, if a sequel of some kind is ever made, I hope they explore.

Granted that would mean this Megs would need a LOT of character development, but I’d love to see him realized he messed up and then Optimus is the one that acts cold in response and has to warm up to the idea of forgiving Megs.

I would love to explore this in a fanfic. But I am both lazy and lack wider knowledge of this franchise and its characters. And unlike Star Trek I don’t feel confident enough to fake it till I make it. So I’ll just think of various scenarios in my head.

[nicorulove]

I'm going to do a better analysis but I'm surprised that many label Orion Pax as bad selfish for being a rebel.

Let's recap: they lived in a system that treated them like garbage "because of how they were born" where you had to submit and even suffer physical and verbal abuse.unable to defend himself

Even all this atmosphere affects jazz

d16 justifies the mistreatment she received, Elita calls herself a mistake with legs, they even belittle the life of miners because it is protocol, if it weren't for Orion and d16, Jazz would be dead.

That many say it is selfish is an erroneous term because remember Orion's actions are driven by the fact that they want a better life for everyone outside of that abuse.

His actions are reckless more than anything

I'm not saying he's a saint because he's not, but many of his actions have some justification, but then I'll do a better analysis.

[increasinglygeeky]

Yall, I saw this comment on YouTube and had to share it with you. I'm in pain...

[mushmetre]

Thinking too hard about Transformers: Anatomy

The MTMTE/LL universe probably has my favourite canon take on Cybertronian anatomy, but the one thing that kind of bugs me is the existence of “nervecircuits.”

It seems to exist to make the characters feel the bodily pain they go through, but for transformers/robot characters in general, I don’t think it makes much sense for their species to have this, or is necessary.

Don’t get me wrong, the body horror in the series is phenomenal. But I think it all still works fine without the implication that Cybertronians have robo-nerves? Like the decapitated Ratchet scene was so effective because he woke up and couldn’t feel anything wrong with his body and the horror hits like a truck when it’s revealed what Pharma did to him.

(From MTMTE issue #18)

(From MTMTE issue #19)

Like I said before, I don’t really understand this when I think about it. The implications I read from these panels are:

1. They have “nervecircuitry” - this likely is circuitry that lines the bodies of Cybertronians that allow them to feel pain and other sensations

2. They have the ability to re-route nervecircuits somewhere else in their frame

3. From the decapitated Ratchet scene, there is some way to block all nervecircuitry. Or perhaps they cannot “feel” anything when they are offline/in stasis?

Why wouldn’t they constantly have their nervecircuits turned off when they’re war machines and constantly being torn apart and wrecked? And okay, I’ll turn to human anatomy for the answer: pain allows us to understand that something is wrong with our body and lets us know where and how to fix it. So it’s probably the same with Cybertronians. Maybe they turn their nervecircuits off for battle (though if I remember correctly, there are cases where characters are expressing pain during battle, and also why would Ambulon even have his on in this scene?) and then after battle when they are being treated by the medic, they are turned back on to diagnose what is wrong.

But… there are in-universe ways to diagnose what is wrong that work much better in my opinion? They are super robots. I’m sure they are advanced enough to get an error message flashed on their optics when a piston breaks or whatever (I think we’ve seen that in canon as well… I cannot think of an example rn though). And we constantly see bots hooked up to medical gizmos in medbays or scanned with doohickies by medics… we have also seen bots blown up and offline that medics are able to fix back up without them expressing their pain. If they had physical lines/circuitry throughout their frames dedicated to feeling, they would constantly be shredded to bits and impractical.

I do like the canon choice of Cybertronian’s sparks being able to feel touch. This to me makes more sense than them having pain receptors, and also scratches the itch of still allowing them to be physically intimate with each other that we all crave (I love the concept of spark-merging as a form of sex/intimateness/tender vulnerability).

(From MTMTE issue #19)

A lot of fics I’ve read use the idea that Cybertronians can feel touch, and I situate that within what I call “sticky universe anatomy.” The sticky universe encompasses any Transformers fan work that subscribes to elements from sticky sexual interfacing headcanons. Fanfics may not include any sexual content, but they might use anatomy headcanons that come from wanting Transformers to have sex. There isn’t anything wrong with that (I for one like to partake in this literature from time to time) but it relies on giving them human attributes and human bodily functions which for me personally, provides a disconnect that these are alien robots, and I lie awake at night overthinking Cybertronian anatomy (Ok but seriously, someone explain to me the conundrum of Cybertronian mouth anatomy). I have read a few fics that justify sticky sexual anatomy in great detail, but none that have justified the idea of nervecircuits.

I think physical contact is inherently something a lot of people crave in their romance and so it is inserted into their fics, which is sweet. But I also love to read unique headcanons or anatomy quirks people come up with that explore the innate mechanical-ness of Cybertronians.

I would love to hear someone else’s take on this; thoughts, feelings, the works. What do you prefer? I’m also a newer Transformers fan, so maybe J. R. has said something about this or acknowledged it, or there’s a headcanon/explanation adopted by the fandom that I’ve missed. Has there been any other examples of this in official Transformers media? I cannot remember 🤔

[anicega]

Just realized the parallels between Sentinel Prime and “Brutus – The Buttress” so hear me out.

SPOILER ALERT FOR “TRANSFORMERS: ONE”

I found the similarities especially in these (Verse 4) lines, stay with me:

“So with a heavy heart, / I'll guide this dagger into the heart of my enemy” (42-43) symbolises how he betrayed the Primes, backstabbing them.

“My whole life, you were a teacher and friend to me, / Please know my actions are not motivated only by envy” (44-45) refer to how he was with the Primes his whole life, assisting them and learning from them. Only to betray them because he envied them and wanted more. He wanted more power and he thought he deserved to be the superior one, which led to his betrayal at the end.

“The people will speak of this day from near and afar, / This event will be history, and I'll be great too” (48-49) which parallels with how historic the death of the Primes were. A whole new era ended and in the end Sentinel was thought to be the hero of the story.

“I don't want what you have, I want to be you” (50) in the end, it was all because he wanted to be one. Someone like them, one of the Primes. And he did! He did get to be a (fake) Prime, but only for a short time.

Someone who can edit, please please please make an edit of him and this song! I got hyped so fuckin hard as a literature major that I rushed to Tumblr. Please tag me if you make anything related to this!

[earthstellar]

I was reading this post by @classychassiss and some good points are made-- I almost never see anyone talk about the Quintessons in the Aligned Continuity, but they play a very important role!

Quintus Prime and the Quintessons: Quick Context  for the Aligned Continuity

Where do the Quintessons come from?

When the Age of Primes ended, Quintus Prime left and sought to use the Emberstone on other worlds to create more species which could potentially become allies of Cybertron.

He reached Quintessa, where he created the Quintessons himself-- Who are believed to have then turned on him. It is implied that they may have killed Quintus Prime, but this is never outright stated.

Needless to say, this did not go well for anyone.

Why? Well...

Colonialism in Space: It Is Always a Bad Idea

So, of course, Quintessons are directly the result of more Primal hubris in this continuity.

But it’s interesting that we see colonialism and a sort of reverse-colonialism occur.

Quintus Prime went to a foreign planet as a being who is nearly outright a God himself, and in something resembling a “divine intervention”, created an entire species with the sole intent of making them to, in some capacity, serve a purpose for his own people.

This is a bad idea. The motivation behind creating an entire species of beings should not be “they can be useful for our own people”.

This is how you might approach making a toolset for a community workshop, not the way anyone should frame the creation of very much living, sentient life.

But this is also inherently a very coloniser mindset: “I will go to another place and massively, irrevocably change it in ways I feel will be good personally, in an attempt to benefit my own people. I see this place and its people as a potential tool.”

Did he consider what might be best for the planet Quintessa? How would introducing a new species affect the world itself? How would this impact any naturally developing life on this planet, even if he himself may not have immediately recognised it as “life”, as we know Cybertronians often struggle to value organic matter and lifeforms (and this attitude may well have extended to some of the Primes as well)?

Did he truly fully consider the implications of creating an entirely new race of beings? Did he have the means or ability with the Emberstone to inform their development beyond simply creating a lifeform that would then develop on its own, and if he did, to what degree did he manipulate the development of Quintessons (aside from bringing them into existence in the first place)?

Perhaps he believed that since he witnessed the creation of the Cybertronian people, that this could turn out the same way. But considering all the difficulty Cybertron had already been through by that time, was that ever a wise thing to believe? Was it ever sensible to think sentient life could be so easily made and worked out?

Throughout the Aligned timeline of Cybertron, we see that colonisation is a common element, and it leads to utter destruction EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Space Bridges and More Colonialism: Please Stop Colonising

As soon as Cybertronians developed the capability for interplanetary travel, they immediately started to explore.

Exploring is not inherently bad: It leads to further research and development of critical knowledge of the universe around you. It can inform everything from artistic creativity to scientific development. New discoveries could be genuinely revolutionary in many fields and with many potentially beneficial applications.

But we know that as soon as they learned enough to attempt colonising other worlds, they began to do so.

And in the process of fucking around and finding out, they discovered the Rust Plague.

The Rust Plague would have remained relatively isolated, had they not bridged bots from place to place (and planet to planet) with such aplomb that inevitably the plague spread as people attempted to flee afflicted colonies and abandon overwhelmed ships.

Their cavalier attitudes towards actively colonising every planet they could reasonably cyberform for their own use resulted in the ultimate destruction of their space bridges altogether in an attempt to spare Cybertron the same fate as countless others, thus cutting them off entirely from the stars they so fervently yearned for.

All that potential for valuable research and exploration lost, in the name of colonising.

By aiming at other worlds, they shot themselves.

Quintessons and Colonising: Nobody Learns Anything, Now Slavery Exists 

Naturally, as soon as they were capable of doing so, the Quintessons set out to colonise other worlds as well.

We can’t say that this wasn’t entirely predictable, as it seems most sentient lifeforms of all kinds in this universe have a desire to explore, even when they are not yet or no longer able to do so.

The thing about Quintessons, though, is that they don’t just love exploring.

They love slavery.

Quintus Prime created an entire species whose ultimate cultural export was the expansive development of an interplanetary slave network.

And when the Quintessons did eventually reach Cybertron, something Quintus Prime had hoped would benefit at least Cybertronians if not the Quintessons themselves as well-- We know how that turned out.

Cybertron and its population was enslaved.

And owing to the nature of the Cybertronian species, this slavery extended to extreme modifications of their bodies for uses as seen fit by the Quintessons.

The Quintessons explicitly wanted to diminish any sense of individuality that Cybertronians had-- A motivating factor for establishing what would become a strict class/caste system, to group bots in together based on physical characteristics that they likely altered further for this purpose (among others).

The Well of All Sparks itself was tampered with, the source of all Cybertronian life, to degrees that are not entirely known.

Cybertronians stopped coming forth from the Well with designations and no sense of self-identity, making it easier to stratify, alienate, and wholly manipulate them as a people. You get a number, you go over here, and this is your life now.

The establishment of Quintesson influence on Cybertron irrevocably altered the development and progression of Cybertronian society in every aspect, down to the people themselves, on a fundamental and often personally physical and mental level.

Simply put, the Quintessons did what the British Empire did: They found other people, set themselves in so fundamentally deeply that the environment, culture, and population itself was warped to their liking under their direct control, and everything from individual people to systems of government to the more core levels of societal development were skewed and manipulated for the central purpose of serving them in one form or another.

The Legacy of Quintesson Interference on Cybertron

We will never know what Cybertron may have developed as naturally, left to their own devices as a species.

Cybertronians themselves may not be able to identify any permanent or lingering changes brought about by the Quintessons, as these changes include alterations to the Well, and therefore they are “born” already altered. To what degree may be impossible to determine.

What changes were made, how extensively, how far have things and people deviated, can they even identify certain changes?

Orion Pax actively suppressed his memories of the occupation, to the degree that despite working with archives day in and out, he essentially entirely forgot about the entire species-wide ordeal. (Which also hints at potential information suppression in the archives...)  

We do know that Quintessons are the ones that introduced the concepts that would become the class/caste system on Cybertron.

They created a system of government which benefitted them, and continues on in a slightly modified form throughout all subsequent eras of Cybertron.

What is interesting is that we know some still-living bots were alive prior to the Quintesson occupation-- I cannot imagine the horror of watching this happen, seeing new bots created with no designations, no identity or sense of self, diminished to the point of being service machines.

We don’t have a lot of details on the broader implications and realities of what Quintesson occupation was like or how severe things truly became, because this is still a franchise intended for generally young audiences, and I’m not sure Hasbro is ready to discuss the evils of slavery with children-- Even though this and similar themes are often critical to the actual story and characters throughout the franchise as a whole.

I do wonder if bots created prior to the Quintesson invasion and occupation of Cybertron were subsequently modified by the Quintessons as well-- I would imagine this would be necessary for the Quintessons to achieve their goals, although the other alternative is that many bots were simply offlined if they were not compliant enough, or if any forcibly made alterations were deemed too complicated/difficult to carry out on any resistant bots.

This gets dark very quickly-- Again, it doesn’t surprise me that Hasbro probably backs down from going into any detail for a lot of reasons.

We know that a lot of frame alterations occurred, including the specifically noted alteration of bots with flight frames-- Which instantly adds another layer of body horror, as these modified flight capable bots would have had to carry Quintessons around inside of themselves, against their will.

Even on a basic level without any further information, that is some truly horrifying shit.

I find the alterations to the Well to be among the most disturbing; The very way they come alive has been fundamentally altered. Nobody knows the true extent of those modifications. The implications of this, both the ones we actually see and what we can infer, are completely terrifying-- And will potentially continue to affect the entire species for the rest of time. 

What Happened With the Quintessons Afterwards? Spoiler: The Colonisers Find Another Colony

And I do mean “find”, not “make”.

After the resistance on Cybertron built up enough to run the Quintessons off world, the Quintessons ultimately found an abandoned Cybertronian colony -- Aquatron -- and started making techno-organic lifeforms to subjugate.

On the up side, this does mean that merformers are canonically real, in one form or another.

On the down side, obviously this is fucked and evil, and once again, another world is added to the Quintesson Imperium-- Essentially, British Empire: Space Edition.

Was Quintus Prime Right? From D-16 to Megatron: Overcoming the Legacy of Oppression  

In the most obvious sense, no, Quintus Prime was not right.

The Quintessons did not “benefit” Cybertron-- Or really, anyone or anything else in the universe, either.

If we want to think about this in the sense of Quintus Prime being a Prime, and the fact that Primes seem to play a very, very long game (albeit with seemingly little understanding of how their ultimately desired goals might come about and how severely awful it might be/what the negative consequences of their actions could be)...

...It may be the case that if anything “good” came out of the Quintessons at all, it is that the Quintesson invasion of Cybertron was the catalyst for the development of a society so brutal and riddled with inequality that change was both necessary and inevitable. The world was forced to one day become what Quintus hoped it would be, due to the suffering which rained down upon it.

Which is completely and utterly fucked, and in fact, is not a “good” way to achieve this outcome to any degree.

Now, due to the obvious parallels to real life here, I want to make it very clear: There is no upside to oppression, occupation, colonialism, or slavery. Ever. I shouldn’t have to say this, but we live in hell, so I feel like I need to make this extremely, crystal clear. There is no “good” in this situation, either fictionally or in real life.

Quintus Prime was, in fact, wrong.

His intentions may have very well been “good” from his own relatively narrow point of view, but he completely and utterly failed to understand that his way of getting from Point A to Point B would result in the almost unbelievable suffering and destruction of not just the people he actually cared about-- Cybertronians--but also countless other species throughout their galaxy.

We should still look at what happened as the outcome of Quintus Prime’s fuckery, and I think it hints at how deeply fucked up the Primes actually are.

Understanding this Primal “long game” approach to things requires looking at Megatron in this continuity:

Megatron came forth from the well as D-16.

Remember that it is the Quintessons who altered the Well to churn out bots without designations or a sense of identity. Megatron was a victim of classism which itself was the product of slavery. Megatron was born as close to being a tool, and not a person, as they could possibly have made him.

He became a fully realised individual despite the most adverse situation in life possible, became a revolutionary figure that was necessary to set off much needed change--

--And even if this spiralled into eventual war and the near-destruction of Cybertron itself, would meaningful change have been able to occur any other way?

Or would Cybertronians have continued indefinitely in the post-Golden Era haze of classist, caste-based oppression with nothing to spurn the population into action? Nothing that could overcome the fear and fatigue of a battered people and encourage them to actively work towards a better, more egalitarian future?  

Was revolution, war, struggle, all strictly necessary?

I would say that if that is the case, then it is almost certainly primarily because of the damage caused by the Quintessons. And the Quintessons are the fault of Quintus Prime’s meddling, regardless of his intentions.

So much suffering would not have happened, or at least would not have happened to this extent and would not have manifested in this way, had the Quintessons not laid the foundations for it and built upon it.

While the past of Cybertron is staggeringly bleak, and the present in this continuity is extremely dire, the future of Cybertron may well finally see the planet (and it’s people) achieving what the Primes had hoped for them in the first place.

That having been said, getting to this ultimate future outcome has been an utter fucking misery beyond all miseries for both the planet and it’s people.

And honestly, we don’t know how Cybertron would have developed socially, politically, culturally, or otherwise-- The damage of the Quintesson oppression is so great that we can’t say if similar systems of oppression would have ultimately manifested on Cybertron in some form or another, even without Quintesson involvement.

But I think it’s very safe to say that it almost certainly would not have been to the extremes or in the exact forms that were forced upon people by the Quintessons.

Quintus Prime fucked up. Very, very badly. We can’t say what would have happened if he hadn’t created the Quintessons, but we do know what happened after he did in fact do so. And it was not good. 

The Fuckery of Primes: We Don’t Even Know How Bad It Is, Really

Primus, in theory, created the Primes to unify the various tribes of early Cybertronian peoples and to help cultivate the planet as a thriving entity for the sake of the then-developing species of Cybertronians.

Would Quintus Prime have had the forethought to imagine this potential path of events, would he have had the ability to understand what the outcomes of his actions would be? In and of himself, probably not.

But Alchemist Prime and Alpha Trion have, essentially, powers of future sight to some degree. We know that in at least two different continuities (Aligned and Cyberverse), these two Primes very much do play the “long game”.

We know that the Primes degraded over time, falling prey to their own biases and interpersonal issues. Unable to mediate amongst themselves any longer and unable to progress beyond severe trauma and loss born of their own infighting and lack of trust, they broke apart.

We don’t know what they may or may not have talked about with one another, or how they individually or collectively may have planned or attempted to plan for Cybertron’s further development in their absence.

We do know that there was some of this type of conversation happening, as most Primes are depicted as having influenced or had personal interest in at least their own respective tribes on Cybertron. They did, at one point, actually do their jobs and serve their intended purpose.

We also know that the Thirteenth Prime was notoriously the only one who would actively engage in a more consistently diplomatic way with the other Primes, and that he also engaged with the general Cybertronian population at the time in a more compassionate and direct capacity compared to the others-- And this is part of what was considered to make him so particular and special.

Which implies that at least past a certain point, the other Primes seemed to have withdrawn from the general population, while Thirteen did not.

As much as the Primes seem to have cared for Cybertronians, most of them don’t really seem to have engaged with the actual population very much-- At least not beyond the very early years.

Quintus’ Call: You Can’t Fix a Mistake With Another Mistake

Perhaps Quintus Prime attempted to create the Quintessons out of a realisation that he failed his purposes as intended by Primus, that he let his population down, and wanted to rectify this so desperately that he did not consider the full implications of creating a species with another species’ needs in mind.

If this is the case, it may be understandable, but in no way excusable, that he proceeded as he did.

The Emberstone is his personal artefact, imbued with life-giving powers implied to have been gifted to him by Primus in order to help him serve his purpose as a Prime. He failed in this purpose, and may have felt that utilising the Emberstone was a critical part of his efforts to essentially repent for how the Primes had fallen apart and abandoned their people and their world.

Again, understandable, especially given the distress we know the Primes were all in at the time when they fell apart and away from each other. 

Understandable, not excusable.

People make bad decisions when under duress and emotionally fraught, and we know that the Primes are certainly not immune to this.

But Quintus Prime’s power to give life is extraordinarily powerful, and carries a significant burden of responsibility.

You do not create life on a whim-- But that is what Quintus Prime did, in a moment riddled with grief, stress, fear for the future, and a sense of personal failure. 

The result of this, seemingly predictably, was horrendous. He may not have been able to see past his own turmoil by this point, or perhaps leaving Primes to their own devices is inherently not a good idea. 

Either way: His decision to create the Quintessons not only led him further into breathtaking failure to fulfil his intended duties as a Prime, but led to the destruction and loss of countless others. 

And this would have been impossible without the Emberstone. 

Primal Artefacts: The Emberstone

The ultimate outcome was such staggering destruction, loss, and suffering that I wonder if the Emberstone didn’t pick up on his feelings or state of mind during the creation of the Quintessons, and forged them from a place of inherent discontent.

We know Primal artefacts have the potential to react strangely and seemingly with some degree of awareness that operates beyond the Prime that wields them. 

Alpha Trion’s pen writes in languages nobody yet speaks, that he himself cannot yet read.

To what degree does the Emberstone potentially have something resembling sentience? 

What is the nature of the power gifted by Primus? It seems to vary from item to item and individual to individual, at least among the Primes. 

But we do not know how the Emberstone actually goes about producing life. We don’t know how it works, or what any implications of its function might be. 

Does Quintus himself know? Or it it an assumed, innate power to him? Something at least partially instinctive on some level, so familiar to him that perhaps such a casual use of it may not be so surprising? 

We don’t know. 

But I think the Emberstone itself is fascinating; It has some of the greatest power imaginable, to create living beings. To will a species into existence, to forge sentience. 

The only other things or beings we see actually produce complex, sentient life are Primus and the Well of All Sparks. 

We know that the Primes came about as unique individuals with unique abilities, intended to work together for the better of their world. 

Things did not work out as intended. Some events are unpredictable, and some outcomes are beyond anyone’s power. 

But we know very, very little about what power the Primes do actually have, really, in terms of their extent of application or how they work or why they work or anything else. 

The one we know the most about is Alpha Trion, and his Quill. 

But even then, things remain esoteric. Alpha Trion has foresight and the ability to alter events to some degree by literally editing and changing the narrative of life in real time and in future tense. 

Yet even Alpha Trion could not see the death of Solus Prime, and had withdrawn enough by that time to have no inkling of the real depth of Megatronus’ discontent. He did not expect the betrayal of Liege Maximo. 

There are clear limitations, when it comes to the Primes as people. 

The artefacts themselves, while connected to their respective Primes, seem to very well have their own thing going on at the same time-- As independently operating esoteric items of power. 

All of this is to say, how much of the Quintessons are the fault of Quintus Prime’s personal hubris, and how much of it is the will of the Emberstone, if it does in fact have individual will? 

Can the Emberstone influence Quintus, in return? To what degree, if so? 

Something to think about. 

--

Phew, this was a long post-- Thank you to anyone who’s bothered reading (or even skimming) all of this! :) <3 

I haven’t had much time to edit, so I apologise for any errors, repetition, etc. 

But I’ve wanted to talk about the Quintessons in the Aligned Continuity for some time, and I figured this was a good time to throw a bunch of my thoughts on it together-- Especially as we know Quintus is involved in the Earthspark Continuity as well. 

(Also, I couldn’t find any Aligned Continuity illustrations of Quintessons, so I’ve used the classic G1 Quintesson Judge here.)

[koorinokujira]

Transformers thoughts that wouldn't leave me alone - Forgotten melodies of eld

I have a bit of a tendency to overthink my favorite media and make strange associations with other things, and Transformers is no different right now. Those robots are spinning in my head like leftover pasta in a microwave. Anyhow, last night I was thinking about Cybertronian music.

(Ramble incoming! Also I might get stuff wrong, I am still fairly new in the fandom, after all. So please, forgive my potential ignorance.)

Now, there usually isn't that much lore on it from what I've seen, which absolutely sucks and I need more. What I've also noticed is that there often seems to be more of a focus on the musical instruments (which I also definitely need more lore on), rather than vocals. And hoo boy do I have thoughts about that specificallly.

Cybertronians have voice boxes, right? And considering their mechanical anatomy, it's pretty safe to say that they can hold on for way longer than our vocal cords. After all, it's not like a computer or its speakers start breaking down after a few hours of music being played continuously. Of course, such a voice box would be more complex, and there are definitely some more unique ways for it to break or damage, but... I generally like to think they are pretty durable when they are used for speech or song. Which brings me to the concept which I decided to call "mechanical elves", or something to that effect.

Now, what does that even mean? It's simple; I was inspired by the portrayal of elven music in various fantasy media, like J. R. R. Tolkien's works. Songs that reach the deepest parts of your soul in an ancient, ellegant language, voices that sing heartwrenching ballads for hours on end about tragedies that happened millennia ago. And I thought... wouldn't that work for Cybertron? Or at least, Cybertron in its beginnings?

You have a race of giant, mechanical beings, many of which have lived for millions of years. And they do love their music, even if we often have no idea what it's like and get only snippets from their culture. You have people like Blaster, who is literally nicknamed "The Voice" in the IDW1 comics and uses his voice to inspire his fellow Autobots, among other things. Just their voice boxes alone have so much potential, and that just makes me feel stuff, honestly.

Why wouldn't they sing for incredible amounts of time without stopping, at least when the times weren't so complicated just yet?

Did the first Cybertronian who ever hummed a melody feel so much joy that he simply kept going and couldn't stop, before excitedly teaching others? When a friendship started to feel more than it already was, did the night start with a passionate serenade sung by a singular voice, which, as the hours went by, turned into a duet full of affectionate words to one another? When a Cybertronian died for the first time, did his brothers sing for his memory, and to survive the sorrow as they had no tears to weep?

Mechanical voices crying out in raw emotion to let the world know they're there, only for others to answer. Languages and dialects no longer spoken, beautifully haunting melodies long forgotten. And as the time went on, the world started to get more and more quiet, before the old compositions finally gave way to the new ones. Perhaps the Titans who yet live still remember a few notes or words once sung.

All that's left of the beginnings now is a requiem doubling as an ode to hope.

Its words?

"'Til all are one."

[dailymothanon]

My TFP Soundwave ramblings (be warned cuz there are many words)

I was gonna draw today but the prospect of it felt overwhelming for some reason so instead I’m just gonna talk about TFP Soundwave’s alt mode (a UAV/ reaper drone) just cuz I was reading about it and I like how I could link stuff between how he is and how reaper drones are.

So basically, one of the first things I wanna mention is that reaper drones/UAVs are unmanned aerial vehicles (given the whole “drone” thing and what UAV even means) but to me that just sorta makes sense for Soundwave in regard to his more.. Unsettling, robotic/alien-like behavior and movements? As well as his silence and usual distance from the front lines and his lack of showing face/(social?) detachment from like everyone else other than Laserbeak (don’t ask, it just makes sense to me). Reaper drones were also made to work at first only in intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance roles; but eventually additionally a hunter-killer role which you can kinda see in Soundwave’s character in the show (my best example is the scene where he retrieves Laserbeak from Ratchet, super cool creepy behavior from him, just waiting for something or someone to make any noise or any movement). When he has a mission, he’s most definitely getting it done, he stalks and lurks and takes action when the time is just Right; he’s very pinpoint accurate in Prime. 

Reaper drones were also made to provide “deadly persistence” capability, being able to fly over areas night and day waiting for a target to present itself, or to survey for LONG long amounts of time. Which to me correlates to how he’s able to stand still and do work and wait and listen and watch and do everything for So Long as he does in the show (and tolerate Starscream— or like everyone actually for so long 🙄). 

Reapers also utilize satellite communications for command and control (as in, they kinda literally have satellite dishes in them I think that’s what that is?), so that to me also easily parallels Soundwave's abilities with the space bridges and kind of his visor being computer-like as well (and that time he used an. Antenna satellite thing? To look for signals or whatever). They also use other multiple sensors to target and observe, which include optical (high resolution imagery for identification and target acquisition), infrared, and radar systems (enables the drone to locate and track targets regardless of weather conditions or visibility). Which imo links to how Soundwave is described as the “eyes and ears of the decepticons”.

They carry many weapons but I’m not really gonna get into that tbh cuz. Idk. Don’t wanna. Also TFP Soundwave doesn’t fight often anyways and when he does it’s mostly just straight hands (and data cables). And this is as far as my not the most accurate of ramblings most likely but just one I wanted to make because there’s just a Lot from so Little of TFP Soundwave I just love to think about it. Was I geeked out writing this? Maybe, so what 😒

[dirtyreusablehandkerchief]

so i had a thought this evening

[eashgirl]

Day something of crying over how similar pre war Skybound Starscream/Ulchtar and amnesiac g1 Redemption center Starscream are, literally my first time reading issue 13 I was reminded of RC. Starscream without his memories and essentially a blank state was just exactly how Ulchtar used to be before Genvo's death and meeting Megatron.

His natural state was so polite,reasonable,intelligent and curious, these traits got morphed into more twisted versions once the war started. I always did wonder why was someone like Jetfire close friends with Starscream in g1? because Jetfire couldn't tolerate a few hours with the decepticons noticing how they were, and if we take RC being a g1 adjacent story(since I believe they do mention events of some episodes in season one I think)it makes sense because Starscream was also a pretty nice/decent person back then.

As I recall redemption center had a whole conversation with the Autobots trying to figure out if there was a way they could influence and reason with decepticons- with some even suggesting brainwashing which Optimus was against- but it was mostly about trying to understand them, by the end Optimus narrowed down that without whatever happened in his past Starscream would have been a different person but it was the past that influenced and changed his personality to the one he currently has, that's why upon remembering despite a part of himself wanting to look at a possible bright future a few moments ago he felt he had no choice but to continue his old ambitions because he at his current state will never able to able to go back to who he used to be. That person is dead,and I think Starscream himself does miss his past self too he seemed partially disappointed that he remembered when Optimus realizes this.

This line especially stood out.

"he knew who he was,knew the inevitability of who he was"

I wonder everyday what would have happened had it been Optimus who met him first instead of Megatron. I wonder what was G1 Starscream's inciting incident like Skybound with the death of his friend. What happened to him after that expedition where he lost Jetfire and before he met the decepticons?

Like not trying to excuse anything,he was always pretty full of himself to an extent,in the he wanted to be validated kind of way but he still had morals and it wasn't borderline narcissism back then.

I wish he just went with Jetfire instead of staying. Not that it would've helped much but maybe then he wouldn't been corrupted due to war in the specific way he did. At the end of the day his actions are still his own and he did hurt so many people but I do still feel bad for him. My war criminal pookie.

Now I'm just wondering it really does add up to his relationship with Jetfire/Skyfire because after Fire in the Sky they literally act like strangers, for Jetfire it makes sense because the guy shot him for dead, but Starscream was acting strange even before that to the point even Megatron pointed it out. Thinking about it it really does make sense why, when he chose to shoot Jetfire it wasn't just a simple act of ending an old friendship, it was him severing the last connection he had to his past self, he chose to discard that part of himself completely that the friend he once spent so long mourning and even searched half the globe for,he had no hesitation shooting that same person down.

It's even more evident when Jetfire asks him if he's happier being a warrior than a scientist, to him of course it is, why would he want to go back to who he used to be? Starscream likely associates his past self with weakness in Skybound's case weakness that allowed Genvo to be killed,weakness of hesitating to kill prisoners for the cause that's why he doesn't like being reminded of his past. And it explains why he's kind of a control freak in a way he hates it when things are out of his control,he hates it when people try to control him so he follows the mentality he'd be even worse than them. Because this world is for the strong, something he told Thundercracker. If you were weak you die or lose what you care about.

And the fact he isn't initially drawn by Megatron when he and Soundwave come to get him back in RC while being in Optimus' care says a lot, a lot of things relied completely on circumstance Skybound Starscream was in a very vulnerable moment when he first met Megatron he just lost one of his best friends,lost his work station and saw Optimus himself shoot Genvo down in the crossfire, then in came Megatron. The panelling of that moment really does give the feeling to Starscream Megatron was like a saviour he was the one who gave him a new purpose in life,who saved him but in reality played the biggest part in his damnation.

The thing is I geniunely do not believe who Ulchtar was would have become the person Starscream is today without Megatron's influence, if he never met the latter and had been left to his own devices he would have continued to suffer for sure and have been a victim of war like Jetfire eventually became in the future, he would've either remained depressed and get more cynical or have died as a civilian later down the line,who he is today is a result of Megatron grooming him into being that way. He didn't show any real signs of wanting revenge at all, and seemed at a loss, until the latter tempted him and even then he was still willing to hold onto his morals up until he was forced to kill those POW against his will.

Megatron himself is a complex charecter and I can see why he also turned out the way he did because of that same cycle of violence but he did play a role in exacting that same pain onto others,same way Starscream in the present is hurting so many people who did not deserve it either. Again, the purpose of this post is not to say he was completely innocent, he is still accountable for his own crimes I'm not denying the fact, that regardless of what circumstances drew him to this point he did still hurt other people too.

There are so many gaps in the timeline of G1 SS's backstory I really want to know what the heck happened? This is only clue when he was remembering everything the minute he did he just couldn't stay even if he understood himself that going back was just ruining whatever bridges he could have formed.

Fun fact : Ironically he remembered his backstory upon falling/thrown off a cliff by Soundwave and being in a shock like state,much like RC losing his memory upon falling off a cliff and hitting his head lol. Soundwave also found it so funny he was looping the same footage over and over like a TikTok reel all the while enjoying seeing Megatron crash out over Optimus and Starscream and having the best time of his life and slightly manipulating Megatron into making efficient decisions. My Boy was winning for once. I feel like they did take some inspiration from RC.

[interstellar-elf]

Thinking about the common alt modes for female Transformers in the franchise and thinking how we have two female Transformers with plant alt modes with similar personality types, ie Botanica and Bonz-Eye.

They both occupy the calm under duress, always there for their friends, quasi-mystical approach, and hating violence/taking a pacifist stance despite having access to some of the best weapons in the series they exist in. Also the fact that their names both begin with "B". Nevermind their backstories are weirdly similar, being formally a part of a crew that no longer exists in the present day of their respective shows, being foisted into their current situation by their found family. They're also a part of a team that has two female characters of which they are one of them. They also have a tenuous romantic relationship between themselves and a character who's own character and personality is a direct and stark contrast to their own and leads them on a journey centered off of a distraction ( an old carousel and a pleasure chips).

I don't know what caused me to think about this, but it's weird how we have managed to get 2 Plantformers in 40 years who have similar personality traits yet are completely different characters.

[a-blog-for-venting-i-guess]

Still thinking about how D-16/Megatron only idolizes Megatronus Prime because of Sentinel’s speeches.