#viviziepop critique

[lightningbreath]

One thing that I find incredible is how Hazbin always manages to shoot himself in the foot. It's quite obvious that the series strives to show how corrupt and wrong Heaven is by, for example, keeping Adam in his position despite his behavior. It seems that it has become ''common sense'' to say that Adam only entered Heaven because he was the First Man, nepotism, favoritism, blah, blah, blah.

However, the series clearly states that angels DON'T HAVE THE MINIMUM IDEA OF WHAT TAKES A SOUL TO HEAVEN. They only accept and care for the souls that arrive there, they have no control over who goes to Heaven or not. Therefore, Adam could not have been accepted just because of nepotism, as the opinion and desires of the angels do not matter for Divine Judgment. In other words, either Adam deserved Heaven at the time he died or the being making this judgment chose to make him ascend (in the same way he did with Sir Pentius). In other words, the villains of the series are not to blame for what happens in Hell.

The Pride ring does not have a government, Lucifer locked himself in the house being useless and Lilith seems to have tried to bring order to the place but the sinners were so unbearable that she voluntarily preferred to return to Heaven through a contract with Adam. The only thing that Heaven did was the Exterminations and, honestly? In the pilot, the exterminations seemed to be something serious, you could feel the heavy atmosphere in the opening scene. But in the series? It doesn't seem to change much of Hell's routine or differentiate itself from the territorial wars or murders that happen all the time. If hell is the way it is, it is not Heaven's fault, nor Lilith's fault, nor Lucifer's fault, it is all the fault of the sinners themselves.

P.S.: I would like to remind everyone that the Ring of Gluttony and the Ring of Sloth exist, this hell does not work like the Hell of the Abrahamic Traditions, nothing prevents a minimally pleasant place from being built, the Ring of Pride can be summed up in ' 'Hell is other people'', or something like that.

P.S.S.: I still can't believe that Emily called the souls in Hell ''innocent souls'', God, she probably saw what happened to Pentius at the club, saw Valentino and still lets me have this? Not to mention Saint Peter, who went from being one of the most interesting and human apostles (along with Mary Magdalene) to a.....that thing.

[raviosprovidence]

I already told some friends this but it makes me extremely mad seeing Lucifer's design in Hazbin because...vivzie already designed lucifer for zoophobia and he's *so much better*

Look at him! Like yeah it is all red but at least it's a nice muted red with lighter accents in the eyes and eyebrows. He's not 50 shades of blood.

The big horns that reference a broken halo are a wonderful touch. I love the grizzled face and hunched back that show he's Old and Has Seen Things. I like the cloak that adds an air of mystery as to what's behind it.

Compared to this...

This is just a White Onceler. He doesn't convey anything lucifer to me other than the snake and the apple on his top hat. He's just another generic triangle tooth twink.

Going back a bit, It also helps for zoophobia that he was supposed to be in a world of characters who WERE bright and colorful so he actually stood out in a good way

Look at these guys! Sure, it's busy, but I can actually tell which characters are what. They all feel like they have their own identity and aesthetic due to their different colors. It's what a cartoon cast is SUPPOSED to look like.

Old lucifer would have stood out in that cast because not everyone is fucking red. New lucifer barely stands out, only because he looks so much like Charlie. And even THEN, they look like siblings!

this isn't official art done by Vivienne but I couldn't find any other good screencaps showing them side by side. If someone didn't know shit about hazbin they'd think charlie and lucifer were twins. Nothing about new lucifer's design suggests that he's a father or even older than 25.

It's sad, honestly. I used to look up to vivienne when I was younger. Now, she's a shadow of her former self as an artist.

[verboselocket38]

I had a hard time trying to describe how I felt about the ending scene of the newest episode...

But then someone said it felt like a fricken Gacha Life Skit, and as true as that is that is an insult to Gacha itself 😭

[porcelaintoybox23]

Vivziepop’s and Adam’s childish responses have made me lose respect for them and the shows. An important rule to all creatives, refrain from responding to criticism. Maybe even avoid it, but definitely do not respond. Their “defense” against poor writing reveals they are hurt and can’t handle criticism. You are creators, you will be criticized. That’s the risk we all take. Audiences aren’t required to coddle your feelings and give their feedback in kind words and affirmations.

You’re allowed to be hurt. No one likes criticism, especially of something near and dear to their hearts. That thread on Millie was an immature fishing attempt at praise and adoration from her fans. She set up strawmen for them to mock and smack down all while throwing shade at her critics. Adam retweets an article about how most criticism these days are from people too dense to understand media. Sir, fuck you. People disliking your writing doesn’t make them stupid or wrong. Even if they are, shut up. You look pathetic. Belittling your audience is foolish.

I waited years for Hazbin Hotel. I liked the beginning of Helluva Boss. I’m allowed to critique things. I’m allowed to have “wrong” opinions though we can literally see that Millie has had no significant development in comparison to her male counterparts. Moxxie has 3 episodes dedicated to this, including the one where me go to Millie’s hometown. If her development is coming, fine. It says something that you have to make a thread saying you will because, clearly, you haven’t.

I’m still holding out hope for Hazbin. I’ve been waiting since high school and I liked the pilot.

Finally,

The writing of Helluva Boss is atrocious. Stolas is annoying. Blitzo is inconsistent. Moxxie is fucking pathetic and I can’t believe they wasted Zim’s VA on him. Grow a spine. Millie is adorable but is only Moxxie’s wife. Loona is there…Octavia is also there. Stella is so overkill it’s stupid. The character designs are not diverse. I will watch the next episode and how many episodes after, if I want. I’ll shit on them, if I want. The show has drastically dropped views and you can see it. There are also too many fucking merch sales. They’re acting like Poppy’s Playtime.

Edit: apparently Viv decided to cry about a new video, which was very polite, and tweeted about it. I can’t muster up anything beyond “yikes.”

[xxduncandonutxx]

Critique is good! I love Helluva Boss but it's not perfect! None of my favorite shows are. The most acclaimed TV shows all have flaws but we look pass it because they hold more strengths to bypass them

But the crits tend to mix nitpicking and misinformation with criticism, said criticism is frequently rooted in spite and misunderstanding, blinded by their hatred of Viv. They drown out genuine critique of Helluva Boss 99% of the time

I agree, critique is good and I see a lot of geninue criticism for Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel that unfortunately gets overshadow by people that give out bad criticism, people who leak HH/HB Content or are just genuinely rude or insulting towards Viv and they mislabel the criticism tag with their insulting posts like Chaifootsteps, Muffinezo2, IdoloMantises and so on.

My rule of thumb is if you are gonna use the Hazbin Criticism or Viviziepop Criticism tags on tumblr, you better have valid criticism rather than just being rude or insulting towards her work.

[heartshapedcreaturefromcriptoon]

Person clogging the tags: "I need more people to see this ..."

The This: "I'm WORRIED about Hazbin Hotel!"

Me: *laughs in 'I Survived The Star vs. The Forces of Evil Fandom' and shames the self admitted "click baity" commentator for being yet another grown adult male bullshit artist with a youtube partner checkmark who loves mixing their viviziepop commentary with clips of unrelated kids shows and Marvel and comparing Hazbin to Steven Universe, while he whines about the voice actors changing and Millie, because I know the REAL problem with this fandom is that much like Star vs. , it's essentially already been bronified and taken over by gamer incels who talk about cartoons too much and to the point where they're the only ones talking about Medrano's work, aside from like, one actually queer male Disney Adult who's honestly equally boring to listen to and distractingly just looks like Gay!Rob Walker, so like, any other video trying to talk about the *actual external issues* this fandom is facing, like the minors invading what is supposed to be ideally an adult space, harassment, death threats, and sui bait and bullying, gets boggled down by the fact that the majority of these videos that try to broach these subjects are being made by these disconcertingly right leaning creepy men who use all these random shooting games modded to have Hazbin and Helluva characters killing each other as a backdrop to these videos at worst, and at best they have a bunch of Disney Cars and Marvel clips at the beginning of their video while they sit there, surrounded by a bunch of Star Wars or some shit, and maybe some of us are just Adult Queer Femmes, trying to make Adult Spaces for ourselves outside what is ultimately a failed attempt at having what was supposed to be an "Adult Fandom"... But we still want to share our joys about Hazbin and Helluva with our adult queer/femme friends outside the fandom but we can't do that because any space to share any information about Hazbin and Helluva as projects or explain the controversy surrounding them, are just overrun with a bunch of chuddy click bait geeks who don't know what they're talking about and don't even know well enough not to use the dollar sign when they' try to trash Kesha for being a supposedly shitty voice actress because they have no personality outside of "critiquing' children's cartoons on their shitty YouTube channels and blogs and mixing all that in with Medrano's work like it's the same, to the point where some of you can't even handle swearing or being called pet names like "honey" even when you're a girl and it's by another girl, and so maybe some other adult queer femmes are just embarrassed to be around y'all and are just here for Medrano's art that y'all steal for your shitty blogs and monetized youtube channels instead of just making or using your own every time some new "content" comes out, and maybe some of us don't wanna be sharing your shitty "vivziepop drama explained" youtube videos with your shitty gamer shooter backdrop around in an 18+ adult space full of hot queer people who actually fuck, because maybe some of us are embarrassed about your cringe arses being the loudest voices "representing" the fandom and the environment you've created and vibe you've created in it, and for anyone on the outside looking in, for that matter, and maybe the problem isn't actually Medrano, but the "fandom" that thrives and makes money and gets notes off of feeding off of her "dramas" and nothing else, and maybe, this is the only REAL PROBLEM we have here that just wouldn't exist if we had more ADULT Queer and Femme people honestly covering Medrano's history and her work, instead of, whatever the fuck it is we have now... And maybe some of you need a motherfucking woman to tell you that.*

[rebelcourtesan]

Say no to Toxicity in Fandom

I guess I need to hop onto a SoapBox for a bit and get a few things off my chest.

Shipping is fun.  It’s fun to imagine, write, draw, and support fictional characters into pairing off into romantic couples.  There is nothing wrong with that and it’s meant to bring attention to a franchise.  I’ve discovered shows and became a fan due to fanart that got me interested enough to try an episode and fell in love with the show.

However, what’s NOT okay is shaming people or getting into verbal attacks or arguments over fictional characters.

I’m talking about shipping wars that happened during Voltron Legendary Defender.  OMG, the toxicity was enough to make me think another Chernobyl happened over the internet.  Klance fans were particularly bad, especially when their favorite ship didn’t happen.  

Yes, I will agree that Voltron did drop the ball towards the end with LBGTQ representation, but to send death threats to the creators and voice actors is crossing a serious line!  Firstly, and I shouldn’t have to point this out, actors have little to no say in how their character is written or what happens in the show.  

The actors of Game of Thrones didn’t particularly like how the last season was written, but they had to go through with it due to contracts.  Breaking a contract could mean no getting jobs anymore to owing the studio money for breach.  Not to mention, these people have to get paid for their work.  So blaming an actor for what happens in a game, show, or movie is not right at all!

Same could be said for writers who don’t have much freedom with the material which happened in Voltron.  Originally, the writers wanted to have Shiro outright die in season 2, but since he was such a popular character, the high ups pushed them to come up with a reason for to come back which forced them to shoe horn in the clone and have Shiro return to a team that no longer needed him and he got put to the side.  

More recently is the death threats sent to Laura Bailey for her portrayal of Abby in The Last of Us Part 2

So let me get this straight?  These people are threatening a woman and her baby, over a fictional character in a video game?  Wishing her to have cancer over a decision she had no part in?  It was a job, people!  Laura Bailey does voice acting to support her family and her child!  And this is over something that was done years before hand!

If you don’t like the game, give it a one star review and be done with it!  There is no need to death threats to a mother and child over FICTIONAL characters!  

Is it okay to be upset about what happens in a show/game/movie?  Yes, it’s totally okay!  

Is it okay to harass actors and creators because of it?  NO!!!!

Is it okay to send strongly worded, but polite, letters to creators telling them how you are unhappy?  Yes, it’s fine to show how unhappy you are and to critique and comment on events.

Is it okay to send threat deaths?  NEVER!!!

And it’s not okay to harass people over enjoying the game/show/film which you dislike.  I have friends who are big Star Trek fans, a franchise I don’t particularly care for, but we are still friends!  

Why I’m bringing this up is because I am starting to see this toxicity creeping into the Hazbin Hotel fandom.  

Already, there are hardcore ships in these shows with their being an actual Petition to Viviziepop (the creator) to make a certain ship canon.

As of this point, we only have two pilots, a prequel comic, and music video as our peek into this Hellish world.  With the show being greenlit and Helluva Boss eps on their way, the fandom is ramping up.  

So, please, don’t harass Vivziepop or her fellow animators about this show.  If your ship doesn’t happen, it’s okay!  That’s what fanart and fanfiction is for!       

[lightningbreath]

I just saw Viv's art for Pride month and, after feeling a headache due to the amount of information included in that drawing (there were characters I couldn't even see) I ended up thinking about some things.

Because Angels and Succubi/Incubi are great material for trans, non-binary, genderfluid, bigender, aroace, etc. representation. Let's think: the profile @anglercrit mentioned the issue of the mythology of succubi/incubi as beings that change their appearance depending on the victim they want to seduce. In the case of Angels, they are, literally, beings of Light. Abrahamic traditions cite that they appear in a humanoid form to prevent humans from having a heart attack whenever an Angel comes to speak to them, Angels have no distinctions gender, neither social nor biological, since they do not need to reproduce, the function of creating new angels belongs to the Almighty.

However, as we see in the story of the Nefilim, angels can choose to modify their bodies and thus have offspring with human women. And in the aroace part, this is a perfect concept for angels: celestial beings who strive for brotherly love and see romantic love as something unnecessary and fill sex only with reproductive purposes for organic life.

We literally have incredible ground for this, I thought something like that when Lute calls chaggie vile and blasphemous, she may have the view that romance = sex without reproductive purposes = depravity. This would even give more depth (a more utilitarian view of sexual relations) than just being a simplistic, one-note homophobe.

It's sad to think about these things and see how none of it was used.

[lightningbreath]

LONG, VERY LONG RANDOM THOUGHTS

We've already started that much of the series' lore isn't in the show... it's divided into shitty twetts, lives, discord, streams, etc. How does the fandom know what happens to souls when they are killed by angelic weapons? It was on a stream or tweet from Viv. How does the fandom know that Angel Dust was a mobster? Live or tweets from Viv. How does the fandom know the year/decade of each character's death? LIVE, TWEET AND DISCORD FROM VIV!!! It's incredible how the series is EMPTY in terms of lore, it only gives minimal information such as that angels can be killed by their own weapons, it explained a little how overlords accumulate power and that Heaven seems to be stupid for not considering that THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND JESUS ​​EXIST, in addition to the fact that the series doesn't decide whether it wants to be a critique of Christianity (we have the classic trope of corrupt Heaven and religious Hypocrisy) but at the same time it doesn't bring the characteristics that define this religion (God doesn't even exist in this series ?). Adam is not Adam, the fact that he is the First Human means nothing since the series does nothing with it, not to mention that they deprived us of Eve's participation since these two only work together. If Adam were, I don't know, Charles, this would have a total of 0 changes (we would lose the initial joke with Charlie and that disgusting Lucifer "joke" at the end, but those things have 0 relevance). Nothing about Adam says he is the First Man, these characters live by what their names invoke, for without that, they are empty characters. The same goes for Lucifer, nothing about him says he is Lucifer, he could very well be a random demon with another name and it would be the same. The character characterization work was basically left to the fans, who managed to create an incredible characterization not only for Adam, but also for the other characters in the cast.

Another thing: why is there royalty in the Pride Ring? And why do sinners follow her? What's the point of Charlie being a princess? Unless Lucifer is planning to do the same as Lilith and "retire" there is no reason for Charlie's princess title to have any validation. And we're not even talking about the fact that the Pride Ring is basically anarchy, Lucifer and Charlie are both useless when it comes to leadership (Lucifer literally ran away from responsibilities and we have Charlie's regrettable performance both in the Hotel and in the War against the Exorcites). Only Lilith tried to do something and it seems that even she got tired of that shit.

One more question: how long have the exterminations been taking place? How long did Vaggie serve as an exorcist? These questions need answering, one for world building and the other for character building.

Another question: why does the entire HH fandom assume that Lucifer and Lilith were happily married? The story at the beginning of the series is incredibly biased and the photos in Lucifer's studio? Divorced or troubled couples have photos of happy moments, even toxic couples can have photos in this style. And another, why does this fandom never want to hold Lucifer accountable for his shit? Let's not talk about the fact that he stooped to objectifying his "supposedly" beloved wife and Eve just to spite Adam? This is expected behavior from Adam, but Lucifer? And the fandom still applauds as if it doesn't matter. We know that Lilith went to Heaven of her own free will, the series says so, but still the fandom insists on either demonizing Lilith for not having fulfilled the unfounded fantasy that they are "Morticia and Gomez" or that she was forced to go to Heaven. Heaven or who is actually Eve (and all because of a necklace). My God, these two didn't even interact in the series! And best of all: how the fandom can only make Lilith the "evil one" who abandoned the innocent Lucifer and Charlie who are just UwU, who are "pure light", or, that Lilith is a "poor victim" of "evil" Heaven. Amazing how the series and the fandom end up validating Adão's words about things being "black and white". We have no nuances and it has always been very clear who is the “good guy” and who is the “bad guy”.

But, If anyone can explain this mess, I'd appreciate it.

[verboselocket38]

TW: Su/i/ci/de, mentions of bullying & harrasment, Victim-blaming

I didnt want to make another post on the subject, but to anyone who tries to defend bullying or harassment because "Viv also gets death threats" or "It was the victim's own fault for getting to attached to the fandom in the first place!" Then Screw you.

THIS WAS A REAL PERSON WHO K*LLED THEMSELF BECAUSE OF BRAINDEAD FANS HARRASSING THEM OVER A FICTIONAL SHIP. JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO VIV DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT FOR SOMEONE TO GET THREATS AFTER SHAY DID NOTHING WRONG. SHE SUPPORTED VIV FOR YEARS AND HAD A WHOLE LIFE TO LIVE FOR.

Like these "fans" treat the life of a real person with less respect then fictional characters. I am so done. You "fans" need to stop playing victim and put the people responsable in their place, or better yet in prison!

For Context for people who dont know: Someone by the fake name Shay who was a 20 year old queer Hazbin fan who supported Vivziepop financially for years commited s*icide after being attacked by a bunch of braindead Hazbin stans because she didnt ship Huskerdust and instead shipped Radiodust.

This needs to be made aware by the whole fandom and not forgotten within a week or seen as "dumb drama" I am serious

Edit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSfCoyn81fp83pycx5eyS4oxryRpFnVnHdEeyEyouigrKSWAZ5iEgTjt7Q63n68S_PcZK7_klB-9dH1/pub

This google doc goes in more detail on the matter, please make people more aware of this, Viv needs to tell her fandom off and we need to do something about these bullies

[verboselocket38]

TO ALL OF HAZBIN/HELLUVA THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

TW: SU/I/CI/DE

Context: A queer Haxbin fan in her 20s that goes by the fake name Shay commited S*icide after being attacked by many Hazbin fans just because she didnt ship Huskerdust. She supported Vivziepop financially for years and was a Radiodust shipper. The document goes into more detail of it, but I just want everyone to spread the word. Like Viv needs to say something about this and not ignore this. The fandom needs to be hold accountable for this, they already gotten away with a lot of stuff but this is to far. Rest in Peace Shay ❤️