#//;i feel like when people say trans they only refer to transfem and transmasc. whatever happened to transneutrals??

[scn-thedog]

nuzi is so t4t but not in the trans guy trans girl way actually it's in the envy and envy way. their colors make the nonbinary flag i don't make the rules sorryyyyyy

[trans-androgyne]

Sorry if this is an irritating ask or anything, but could you please explain to me what people find wrong about the term transandrophobia? As far as I’m aware it’s literally just a word to describe trans men’s oppression. I’m not against the idea that it might have something wrong with it (as a transmasc person), but through all this fighting I’ve never once seen someone clearly explain what the problem is.

I’ve seen people claim that transmascs keep throwing transfems under the bus, but the only thing I’ve ever seen is actually the OPPOSITE way around, and only when I go searching for it (but that might just be because I make an effort to keep my dash free of that kind of thing) again I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I just… don’t quite understand all this.

Sorry abt this rambly ask, I’m just tired and frustrated and I HATE that we’ve been pitted against each other

I will do by best to genuinely present and respond to the main arguments I have heard made against using the term. Apologies in advance for the length.

The most common in my experience is that “androphobia/misandry doesn’t exist,” or “men aren’t oppressed for being men,” based on the terms transandrophobia and its origin, transmisandry. It feels like a non-sequitur to me, completely bypassing the actual meaning of the term. Some people do include androphobia or misandry in their definition of the term, but many more don’t and just use it to describe the intersection of transphobia and misogyny in the lives of transmascs or even just “transphobia against transmascs.” I personally do believe androphobia exists in a literal sense—the fear of men that has serious consequences—but not in the way they mean it. They are attempting to paint us as MRAs, but nobody who gets any eyes on them using the term has ever argued that women oppress men as a class. MRAs are antifeminist, and the transandrophobia conversation is very much a feminist one.

The simplest is just that transmascs just “don’t need a word” to talk about their oppression. Our experiences are called “just transphobia” or “just misogyny” based on whatever they think applies most in the moment. Our theorizing is painted as useless infighting or just being jealous that trans women have a word to describe their oppression. I vehemently disagree with this one, I think everyone deserves language to describe their experiences. I think it’s impossible to ignore the way that both transphobia and misogyny interact to affect us in a new way (the very definition of intersectionality), and that we deserve to recognize and describe that intersection. Even the coiner of the word “transmisogyny” appears to agree with us on this.

Other people will focus on the term’s perceived origins. They frequently call the person who changed the term “transmisandry” to “transandrophobia” a “lesbophobic transmisogynist” and rape fetishist. From everything I’ve been able to put together on the matter, it seems to be that they’re referring to him having engaged in someone else’s detrans kinks as a sex worker on a private blog. I’ve heard from others he may have harassed people, absolutely cannot verify that. To me, it feels like another case of accusing trans people with kinks others find unsavory of being a sexual predator/sex pest, which people generally recognize as transphobic. In any case, even if every single part of their outrage was true, I do not think the behavior of a person who didn’t even come up with the ideas means that transandrophobia theory is inherently transmisogynistic.

In regard to “throwing trans women under the bus,” I think a lot of those ideas come from oppositional sexism. It’s assumed that what we’re saying is true of men must be the opposite for women. Trans women, including the woman who coined “transmisogyny,” have been using trans men’s perceived “opposite” experiences to prove their points for many years. They try to make a claim for transmisogyny by saying trans men don’t experience similar issues (violence, sexualization, demonization, safety issues, misogyny, trouble passing). But the reality is, trans men do experience those issues — some to a lesser extent, some in a different form, some just less visibly due to our chronic erasure — and have other issues of their own that trans women don’t face (like abortion rights issues). An attack on the idea that trans men have it easier is seen as an attack on transmisogyny as a concept. But it isn’t!! Transmisogyny is so blatant and oppressive of a system that it doesn’t need to compare itself to transandrophobia/trans men’s issues to have ground to stand on. Trans people are all harmed by transphobia in different, complex ways and none of us have gendered privilege.

Very few people engage with the actual meat of transandrophobia theory. We have really bad optics, I’ll give them that. It’s hard to like a word with “androphobia” in it, talking about men’s issues puts people on edge due to MRAs, and there are TERFs actively trying to recruit us. (The last part is used against us when it shouldn’t be, they try to recruit transmascs of all stripes for detransitioning and are only using us in particular because so many transfems have been awful to us because of the term. They are trying to widen that divide while most of us discussing transandrophobia are trying to close it.)

We (people who use “transandrophobia”) are often characterized as a unified movement that hates trans women (like in that post that blew up in the wake of predstrogen’s banning). We are not a movement any more than “transmisogyny” or “exorsexism” are. We don’t all believe the same things, the only thing we share in common is that we feel transmascs have a specific kind of oppression and deserve a word to describe it. And, obviously, we are doing our best not to perpetuate (trans)misogyny! The number of disclaimers I have seen people put on their post to make it exceedingly obvious to the piss on the poor website that they’re not talking about trans women is absolutely astounding. I’m sure our circles do have some transmisogyny in them, everywhere does! We do our best to combat it and I know my personal spaces have a couple transfems in them that help keep us in check. If we were being genuinely transmisogynistic, I would ask people to actually point to what they’re seeing that’s harmful instead of just dismissing all of us as evil bigots.

I think what contributes to the backlash the most is simply that trans men do not fit into current understandings of feminism well. People have gotten it into their heads that men are gender oppressors and not gender oppressed — which doesn’t shake out so well when you put being trans into the equation. I grew up hearing “ew men are gross” “I hate men” “kill all men” sentiments due to being in LGBT spaces. Some people really, really do not want to let go of the idea that men are bad and icky and dangerous and women are good and pure and safe, especially when it benefits them as non-men. Many transmascs themselves have internalized the idea that they are gender oppressors, traitors to feminism, more likely to be dangerous/predatory/misogynistic, and take up too much space because they are men/mascs. I sure felt like that before finding these conversations! I sincerely think that as we grow our transfeminism and heal from our gender essentialism a little more, this rhetoric will be left in the past.

[wof-reworked]

ok I can't stop thinking about the jade winglet, here's my gender hcs for all of them

Moonwatcher - she/they (nonbinary)

I feel like this is fun bc rn (in canon) her gender is just "anxiety" but like,,, one day in the future she gets to actually play around with it

like she captures a very specific type of person I've met who you go "oh I mean I know she's gay but she's probably cis..." and then you have like one real convo and find out they're like not only nonbinary but better at it then you

I think she should get to be butch when she's older. I think she deserves being a) massive compared to her two twink boyfriends and b) gnc as shit

Kinkajou- any/all (genderfluid +transfem)

Kinkajou strikes me as being like. totally ambivalent to gender. Kinkajou changes her pronouns based on how the fruit he ate for breakfast makes him feel. Kinkajou is better than you

I think she was like staunchly using she/her for a while bc it just felt right and like changes pronouns situationally- Rainwing village is she/her, Jade Academy is any/all, close friends it varies, etc etc

Qibli- he/they (transmasc)

Qibli's just always kind of known who he is, and has been like. pretty contentedly in his corner for a while. I think it's like- a pillar of stability for him of like "at least I know I'm (x)"

Proximity to Moonwatcher puts the they/them in there bc I think it's nice when ppl get more comfortable so they start branching out a lil bit :> Qibli has like. guy who says "he/they" because he doesn't mind they/them and wants his friends to feel supported y'know

Winter- he/him (cis + gnc)

Look I feel bad making him one of like. two cis ppl at JMA but like I think it's funny if he's cis but inflicts a status effect of gender envy on every trans person in his proximity

guy who does makeup flawlessly because "it's fun" and decimates your sense of identity as you wonder why the fuck god gave these gifts to a man

extra funny for the fact that as a dragonet he gets offended by the implication he's pretty. he gets over it eventually I think

Turtle- she/her or he/she/they (transwoman/trans)

See here. Otherwise I think she's like trans and this could go in like. any fucking direction ngl

transmasc turtle??? hell yeah !!! transfem turtle??? hell yeah !!! gender is whatever Turtle has going on and god knows if she knows it

last egg to crack bc Turtle is immune to self reflection that isn't anxiety and self loathing

"Haha everyone hates how other people refer to them and their gender what do you mean? :)" (entire jade winglet: cringing with worry)

Umber- he/him (cis)

cis and a lil insecure about it but like. he's just nice :)

he's like experimented with pronouns and gender and found none of them really stuck so like. cis+. cis (extended dlc). you know what I mean I hope

gonna be honest I'm lost for him bc I genuinely forget he was there bc he peaced out so fast. justice for my boy I want to know more !!!!!

I could be persuaded for transman Umber ngl,,, it tempts me,,,,,,

Peril- she/her (trans woman)

On one hand I'm torn bc I think it almost doesn't make sense for her backstory BUT ON THE OTHER HAND the idea of Scarlet being supportive of Peril's identity and LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE is hysterical to me

though actually if we wanna get sad,,,, that 100% could be a manipulation tactic of Scarlet. "see I love you I even accept you" etc etc. now I just feel bad man

Peril's also in the same camp of Qibli of knowing this abt herself since she could think and being happy in it. She knows what she's about

BONUS:

Carnelian- she/they/he (transmasc)

Look butch can be a gender and sometimes you're a mean butch skywing idk what to tell you

wish she stayed alive bc her and Moon could've been legendary together. girl who will kill for you vs girl who desperately wants you to do anything else please we talked about this you can't solve your problems with murder

I think Carnelian's true gender is Skywing Patriot and idk how to put that in hc form but this is as best I've got

[epithet-beloved]

what about Naven comforting a trans reader through a rough dysphoria day?? it can be platonic or romantic, or whatever you think best fits the story you want to tell :))

Naven + Reader with Gender Dysphoria

synopsis… Headcanons on how Naven helps out a reader with gender dysphoria!

ft. Naven Nuknuk

tags… epithet erased spoilers, but only if you squint, platonic, slight hurt/comfort, gender dysphoria, reader identity kept vague, headcanon content

word count… 661

a/n… Naven is so trans to me. Trans masc? Trans fem? No one knows. (I’m personally a genderfluid Naven truther). ((Nyoom/Zapped Apples is actually sapphic if you pretend real hard)). Comfort character writing to ward off the malaise lesgo!! ✧ 🦝

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 Epithet God bless this guy i mean it

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 He feels so deeply for you.  If he could, he’d wipe away any indication in your mind that you had to transition, that you simply are how you identify.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 But, alas, he cannot, even if he really really desired it.  That’s not how life works, he so begrudgingly knows.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 But… that doesn’t mean he can’t try.

“Oh, I love that outfit on you!”  Naven would compliment you as you pass him one day, wearing something you feel particularly brave about for once.  His bright grin is infectious, and you can’t help but feel flattered when he says, “it suits you very well.”

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 I personally headcanon that Naven had a great fascination with the rise of the punk scene and ideology, especially when he was a teenager.  Thus, he always sort of had a loose relationship with his gender, preferring to present himself exactly how he wishes.  As he grew older, he felt it would be more professional to be a bit less brazen, but he still wouldn’t care if you refer to him with she/her or something.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 His experience of transness is a little bit outdated compared to young trans people today, but Naven hopes he can validate you in any way that he can, from the subtler things to the widespread action.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 If you frequent STEM, he’ll push for gender neutral bathrooms, for example.  Actually, considering certain people he’s worked with, I don’t doubt that he already has some in the building!  He does all he can to make things as welcoming as possible.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 On a more personal level, Naven checks in on people face-to-face quite frequently.  If you bring up your gender dysphoria to him, he smiles sadly and tells you that he understands, and sort of guessed, based on your tells.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 He offers you to tell him if there’s literally anything he can do to help.  Your comfort is his priority, after all!!

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 He’s a secret sucker for clothes shopping for others.  If you’re close enough, he’s totally here for shopping with you and buying aaaaannnyything you want (cause let’s be real he’s probably loaded).  He doesn’t care if it’s expensive, he’ll get you that gender euphoria!

“How about this?”  Nave points at a certain belt from your selection of clothes on the fitting room door.  From where he’s seated, he makes a great judge of your new outfits, and he’s always clapping and chittering gladly about how something looks on you. He stands up to pick up the belt and compares it with what you are wearing.  “Yes, this would go great with your style!  Let’s give it a shot, hm?”  You can’t deny his eagerness to see what the belt looks like, as you turn and go back into the changing room.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 If you’re transfem, Naven actually likes to help you with vocal training!  His voice is rather effeminate himself, so he has some tips on how he gets his voice sounding more like a woman’s.  (How does he have this knowledge?  You always forget to ask.)

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 If you’re transmasc, Naven likes giving you jobs that kind of makes you feel more ‘manly,’ as it were.  He’s the teacher that asks “are there any Strong Boys who like to carry these chairs? :)” except he picks out the girls (or repressed trans mascs) to help instead.  He really well and truly is a teacher.

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 If anyone, anyone, were to question whether you “really are” a certain identity… Oh, you should see the glare Naven gives them.  Despite his squinted eyes, his furrowed brow and tight frown really makes your blood run cold.  Trust that person will get a stern talking to later… Maybe a little more. ^^

𓆩ꨄ︎𓆪 Also entirely separate note if there are any artists out there PLEASE give Naven a cute long skirt i’m on my knees he deserves to be pretty PLEASEEE 🙏🧎

[katrafiy]

do you reckon it's acceptable for people not assigned male at birth to use the terms transfem/trans girl/trans woman to describe their experiences? Like especially in situations with intersex/bigender/multigender/genderfluid/ folks who's transition includes multiple "conflicting" procedures? Or vice versa, amab people using transmas /trans boy/trans man? Not something you have to answer!!! It's just kind of a theory question I've been toying with because I find the conflation of trans id and agab to often be fairly useless and i wonder if transmasc/transfem would benefit from no longer being synonimized with agab. I'm a trans fella (mostly kind of? gender is silly) and I'd personally take no issue with rhe transmasc community welcoming amab people who find their transition to be transmasculine in nature but I wanted to ask a trans girl before fully forming my opinion on it. I realize there's concern about people claiming an axis of oppression they don't fall into but I also feel like we benefit more from inclusion and transmasc and transfemme don't actually tend to denote a trans person's presentation. (like plenty of transfems transition to be stone butches and plenty of trans men transition to be high femme) Still on the fence though auwgsbdv happy 2 hear ur thoughts because I reckon you know more than I do

My position on this, and I'm saying this as an intersex femminiello (neapolitan third gender) trans woman, is that people should use whatever label best enables them to communicate their identity to others and have their identity be understood.

Idk if you have seen my pinned post anon, but I'd suggest reading it if you haven't already done so. There's a part that is particularly relevant to the question you've asked, which is:

Essentially my position is that the specific identity labels we use are much less important than the communities of practice we share with one another. When you say "I am X" you are communicating not only an idea of who and what you are to other people, but you are also saying "I am the same as/a similar thing to/in the same group as other people who are also X".

If transfem is the label that best enables someone to do that, then by all means have at it. I might raise my eyebrow at someone who calls themself a transfem but then goes to great lengths to distance and differentiate themself from other transfems, because at that point why use that label? I can't stop someone from doing that, but they might want to consider how effectively they are communicating who they are to other people.

The way I see it, anyone who calls themself a transfem is my sister, and I would hope that anyone else using that label sees me the same way. I have certainly seen some "afab transfems" who definitely don't see themselves as being in any kind of sisterhood with "amab transfems" and those are definitely the kind that I talked about raising my eyebrow at earlier. It's like, why refer to yourself with a label that communicates to others that you are like me, and then balk at the idea that people might see us as being the same ya know?

I hope that answers your question. Let me know if you have any others. 💛

[beta-adjacent]

If transmasc is an umbrella term for transmen, masc nonbinaries, etc and transfem is an umbrella term for transwomen, Fem nonbinary etc and trans neutral for those that feels they’re neither Fem or masc etc. what would be the equivalent to trans dynamic Alpha/Beta/Omega? Cause I know while biology wise it would fall under these terms it seems so restrictive and just focusing on the sex biological parts which may be the point of a/b/o, but like idk as an asexual I feel like they would be separate terms due to a/b/o not being the ‘normal’ human. Yknow?

I am not a linguist, so I wouldn’t be the person to turn to for crafting some new terminology, haha. But this did get me lost in some philosophy sauce so here’s the product of that:

For the sake of establishing a foundation, let’s say the following are the “original/traditional/common” transdynamic terms:

General: Transdynamic, adynamic*, dynamfluid/dynamifluid

Transition states (in the format of the primary notion “mtf”): atb, ato, bta, bto, ota, otb

Some thoughts on these terms:

The terms don’t have to solely equate to a change in sexual organs, because secondary biology isn’t exclusively sexual. You could focus on a surgery that stops the formation of a knot, sure. But you could also focus on HRT that alters the hormones that make you smell like your adab (assigned dynamic at birth?), which is arguably very non-sexual. I think it’d be hard to change the non-sexual without changing the sexual, but you can still make the non-sexual elements the emphasis. So I’m actually rather ok with the terms we have now if the argument is they seem too sexual, because they don’t feel very sexual to me

That being said, these terms do feel very biologically driven and limiting. You only have about 6 options in the transition states? That’s quite binary

*I don’t think I’ve actually seen the word adynamic used. Instead, authors refer to an adynamic person as a delta. And this classification is where the mindfuckery starts for me

Because tertiary dynamics cover a level of transness in secondary dynamics. By definition, a tertiary dynamic typically describes someone who biologically aligns to their adab, but not socially. Or, in some cases, they cover the “miscellaneous” category of secondary genders, ie experiencing all 3 dynamics, or none of the dynamics.

So now we have to question: how intertwined are the ideas of secondary body versus secondary instinct/soul? Below are some examples of people with this “body vs instinct” nuance:

Skye is a cis male. They were born a beta. Skye biologically feels no discomfort/dysphoria in their current body. But socially/instinctively, they have the soul of an alpha. What do we call Skye?

Dusk is a cis female. They were born an omega. Dusk feels extreme dysphoria in their body because of their dynamic, but their omega instinct feels calming/natural to them. What do we call Dusk?

Star is intersex. They were also born with mixed dynamic biology. What is the term for that? Would it be two intersex conditions (primary-intersex and secondary-intersex), or would we classify it as intersex and a tertiary dynamic?

Moon experiences all three dynamics at once bodily but does not relate to any of them socially/mentally. What do we call Moon?

Gender labels are limiting —regardless of if it’s primary, secondary, or tertiary— because they’re an attempt to classify something that often can’t be classified in a simplistic/binary way. Having labels to describe every complexity is impossible because complexity is infinite. Having umbrella terms is almost guaranteed to be limiting and/or reducing to the complexity itself.

Soooooo…… fuck labels! Or make them whatever you want in your verse, just stay consistent and, more importantly, make it meaningful when it’s not consistent. Include characters with nuanced dynamics and let readers struggle with the material alongside you

[transfemmes]

you know trans women are not the only people who have experience being called transphobic slurs right. you are aware of that fact right. I, as a trans masculine person, have been called a girl boy and various other similar phrases for years after coming out. if I now finally feel comfortable enough that referring to myself that way gives me intense gender euphoria, I have that right. and if you don’t like it, look away! block people! everyone has the right to identify themselves in whatever way makes them feel most comfortable

I'm sorry are you saying you can reclaim specifically transmisogynistic slurs after being mistargetedly called them and telling transfems to "look away and block" when you choose to refer to yourself by transmisogynistic slurs while transmasc.

[butch-bitch-dyke]

Some Stuff(tm) about the MOGAI Wiki but not what you're expecting

(I was not involved in... whatever the fuck Kris did and left before that happened, I am bewildered.)

Hi! I’m not sharing my name, though you might be able to guess. Refer to me as "butch" or "dyke" and use it/its pronouns.

I used to be a MOGAI coiner, centering on pagan, lesbian, and Latin identity. I also used to be an extremely prolific editor for what is now the Mogai Wiki (the Ezgender Wiki, when I was an editor), writing 40+ full pages and editing possibly 200+. And I left because of transmisogyny. Fun.

At the time, the wiki & Discord didn’t have a single active transfem mod. The only mod who is maybe transfem was extremely inactive to the point I’d never seen them post anything in the server. This remains the case, apparently. (Can't say I'm shocked the owner left due to being overly defensive given the incident this post is about.)

The server was also very, very absent of transfems. I think there were maybe three of us total that I saw.

So, the incident that caused me to leave:

One of the (at the time) admins messaged in a chat asking if it was okay to identify as [transmisogynistic slur]. Said admin was transmasculine. A member (who is prominent in the MOGAI community) linked a Wiki page I wrote on the term, that explained extremely clearly with sources why [slur] should not be used by non-transfems. And was seemingly used to say “yes, it’s cool.”

I entered the conversation and politely asked if they actually read the article. They had.

I then said that, since they knew better—and since their first time fully deciding to use the term was after knowing better—using it would be extremely transmisogynistic.

They did not like that.

I was accused of erasing gay male history. They tried to convince me that I was wrong about the term’s origins. They refused to even at least censor the word on request if they were going to continue saying it. When I said I was the only transfem present and was being ignored which, bad look, [prominent community member] said I wasn’t. I… definitely was. I knew all the people involved were transmasc or transneutral, because I knew them personally. I was told I was doing “discourse” and ordered to stop speaking on the issue by (again, transmasc) mods.

So I muted the server for a few days, because that experience was fucking degrading.

When I finally looked back on it, i found [different transmasc admin] had pulled me in a ticket, and warned me for “biased articles” and “hateful language.”

The biased articles? [Slur]. Obviously. And one article on the black triangle that was at worst biased towards not erasing Roma experiences regarding the Holocaust, which had been up for months (and read by mods) with no prior issue. That article was from November. This issue was in January.

The hateful language? A message from the week before reading “cis people are cancelled, men are cancelled, transmascs are cancelled, this is so transmisogynistic” when explicitly speaking about transmisogny regarding [slur] a week prior. Which, I’m so sorry that I hurt your feelings by generalizing when calling out bigotry that you immediately turned around and perpetuated. Point proven for me, though. (If you “not all men me” on this I swear I will bite your legs off.)

I then found that [transmasc owner] had rewritten the entire page to almost entirely be about gay and trans men. They removed my transfem primary sources. They removed the definition’s source and didn’t bother sourcing a new one. They watered down every place I mentioned it was a transmisogynistic slur to downplay or fully erase the term’s history as one. The majority of historical context I provided was deleted without replacement. To be clear: [slur] is an equivalent slur to tr-p. Like. 100%. Which is part of what my sources discussed.

The only transfem sources they included? Naturally, transfems saying it was totally okay because “we all experience transphobia” and “the gay and transfem community are really close,” which is just… extremely ignorant of history and also definitely a minority opinion in the transfeminine community. The slur is transmisogynistic. Not transphobic, not homophobic, not femmephobic. It is a slur against specifically AMAB transfems & trans women.

So, naturally, I was fucking pissed.

I may have written a very long, very angry reply, as one does when implicitly accused of ‘tranmisandry’ for calling out transmisogyny by a transmasc. Essentially, it was pointing out the issues I said above. Then I left.

For a few days I did not unfriend the moderators. I never blocked them, and they can easily find my Discord and Tumblr. It’s been four months with no message or apology, and last I checked the page is still what the former owner "corrected" it to, so I don’t see how I could be expected to believe the wiki or people involved changed.

Currently, only two mods for the wiki were there when I was a member. Only one of said mods was involved in the issue. So I’ll give the new mods benefit of the doubt.

But yeah, you guys wonder why you don’t see a lot of transfems active in the MOGAI community? Why every wiki seems so devoid of us? This shit is why.

You all are only against your idea of transmisogyny, not committed to protecting transfems. You hate TERFs more than you love trans women.

You can’t stop talking about how TERF ideology is just as bad for transmascs when they literally want all transfems murdered—yeah, they hurt transmascs a lot, but they’re killing us. You can't stop trying to make transmisogyny about you. You refuse to analyze transmasc-specific bigotry through any lense other than comparison to transmisogyny.

If you get told to stop using one slur, get a little uncomfortable, feel like we’re being too mean? That “allyship” goes straight out of the window.

You’re more averse to speciesism than transmisogyny. You’re more upset by “kinnie” than by [slur].

Maybe treat us like you give a shit, and fucking listen. Then you might realize that, hey, this community isn’t just transmascs and enbies, and it never has been.

(on the slur censored in this post:)

[Slur], which some might have guessed, is femboy. While transmascs and gay men use it… a lot, now, it originated in the 90s as a sibling term for trap, but even more sexualized. As in, it literally came from the same discussion boards.

The main difference, and why the f-mboy is even more sexualized, is that since they’re not “deceiving” men, they can have very visible bulges. This is also why the term is extremely pornographic, reclaimed or not, and minors really need to stop throwing around.

Frankly, the whole queer men "reclaiming" it has made it way fucking worse. Conflating a slur calling trans women men with queer men is extremely fucking gross. "Reclaiming" other communities' trauma and erasing them from the discussion is gross. (And, no, "I wan't a term with history" isn't an excuse when that history is the sexualization, trafficking, and murder of trans women. Want historical terms? Scroll down.)

The movements formed around it are cool. Yay feminine men. But the use of the slur is still violently transphobic even if the culture is nice.

It feels a bit too late to stop completely at this point, but the least you (and the MOGAI Wiki) could do is not actively spread transmisogynistic misinformation on the word.

If you're looking for alternatives that don't fuck over transfems, consider:

Lavender boy - Much more history within the gay community, and more of a connection to queer men than f-mboy will ever had. Referring to a feminine queer man/masc. 1920s

Rosboy - A modern equivalent to the exact definition of f-mboy used by queer men/mascs, but this time the definition used is accurate to the term itself.

Tomgirl - Opposite of tomboy

Femme - Literally just femme. We've had femme the whole time. Just use it

Femme man, masc, guy, etc. - See femme

Make something up, or do your own research! Both are definitely options for anyone

Also, yes I have sources on all of this, I'm just not posting them publicly because I would be immediately outed if I did. If anyone involved/in the Discord wants to back me up without saying who I am or showing my user/nickname, feel free.

[ceasarslegion]

This poem's really stuck with me since I first read it, and unfortunately I can't find it right now, but it goes something like "the child expects the world to be fair and just, and gets upset when it is not. And the child is right." Obviously, I'm super paraphrasing it, but I can't dig it up for the life of me right now

And this other concept has really stuck with me, as well. When I was watching Abigail Thorn's coming out video, Rhys talked about how you are simultaneously every past version of yourself at once, including your child self.

I've been getting a lot more targeted harassment since around when Elliot Page came out. Obviously, it's not his fault at all, it's the TERFs and run of the mill transphobes and the politicians screaming trans panic who took that and ran with it, which is disgusting and deplorable how they turned something so amazing for transmascs like me into another rehash of "wE'rE lOsInG aLl OuR dAuGhTeRs!!"

I mean, shit. It wasn't even that long ago when that stupid transphobic book came out that was titled something like "the gender panic plagueing our daughters" or whatever the fuck.

Plus there's so much community infighting lately because so many of y'all really do view oppression as a pokemon type damage chart instead of realizing that multiple things can be true at once, ie transfems and transmascs are both oppressed in different ways, so stop acting like either wanting recognition is ever taking anything away from the other. Other oppressed people are not your goddamn enemy

I don't know, I just... it's not even all the big things that are getting to me lately. It's the little things. Like when I've made it clear multiple times that I'm not comfortable being referred to as anything feminine, even slang. I try to be polite about it, say "please don't call me queen, or girl, or sis, it makes me very uncomfortable because of how hard I've fought to have my masculinity recognized" and people take it personally. People act like I'm calling femininity a bad thing, or that I'm making a totally unrealistic expectation of them, when I just said that I, personally, don't like this thing, so please don't do it to me, personally.

I think a good example would be a while back. I've gone by the nickname Dames since I first picked my name. It came pretty naturally from my high school friends, and I thought it was nice, I liked it, so I naturally kept it IRL and tagged all my personal posts with it. And evidentally my longer followers like it too, because I always get asks where people refer to me as Dames. That's me to all of you, right? It's a major indicator of the guy behind this weird internet facade tens of thousands of y'all saw some value in following. And good on him for only having followers on the one social media where that counts absolutely jack shit for, am I right?

I'm bound to get anon hate with numbers like that, it's expected, I'm not usually vexed by it. 9/10 times I just block and move on or find a way to make it funny, but a while back I got one that really kinda... stung. Mostly because it felt so targeted. Like, the others are usually just people trying to tell me what to post on my own blog or some shit about how my latest shitpost making the rounds sucks, but no one's ever gone for the nickname before this person. Not a single anon has ever told me that my nickname is shit, especially not with such targeted phrasing as "girl if you dont STOP calling yourself dames i refuse". I ended up making fun of them on here if y'all were here for it but it really kinda got to me in reality.

And I know what most people would say: "dont feed the trolls" "dont engage" "just block and move on" but I do have a few criticisms of that mentality. For one, it puts the onus on the person getting harassed to be the bigger person without ever addressing why the internet makes these people feel like this shit is acceptable, or how to fix that. To be clear, I don't know how to fix it, I just know it's a serious problem that disproportionately affects marginalized people online, especially those of us who have a bit of a platform to speak of and are therefore more visible, so it should be discussed more instead of just chalking it up to the lawless internet.

Second, on a more individual level, what the fuck has to be wrong with someone to actively go and figure out whats important to someone's sense of identity and then shit on it to them? I assume it was to get a rise out of me which I didn't really give them in the moment before I blocked them, but the total lack of acknowledgement of another person and the cold, calculating callousness is what does it for me.

I still go by Dames, but sometimes it gets to me. Like what if it is stupid? What if everyone does hate it? I didn't have these thoughts before I got that targeted harassment for no real reason than existing in a way this person found worthy of ridicule.

I think it goes back to what I was talking about before. The child part of me remembers how strong his sense of morality was, and how angry and betrayed he felt when things were unfair or unjust, or people were shitty to each other for no reason. He expects people to be better, to acknowledge that other people are people and to respect each other even on a platform as lawless as the internet. He's the part of me that's so hurt when this thing happens. And others always tell him that he's just naive, he shouldn't have responded, don't feed the trolls, etc etc without ever asking WHY this environment exists in the first place. It's not his fault for being hurt, that's a natural reaction, it's the bully's fault for kicking someone who's been systemically downed in one of the few places he comes for refuge and feels validated by.

The child is angry, the child says that people should be just and the world should be fair, and people say that the child is naive, but the child is right.

[silvaurum]

hi i saw ur ask about transmasc lesbians, sorry if i got you wrong

yk how transmascs often get called butch lesbians because. well transphobia and stereotypes gross really

i think since they've been called that as an insult they feel a different connection to it and reclaiming it as a label can be empowering

from the different side, like how some transfems reclaim the term femboy since they've been called it so often they now feel a connection to it

i hope i helped

i don't know what this is referring to specifically? but like, i think trans people can totally call themself whatever. lesbians on hrt are great, lesbians doing fun things with gender are great, feminizing or masculinizing or whatever, that's all good.

the only thing i remember saying about this is trans men, specifically, who are binary men only. which is not my wheelhouse or experience.

and my thoughts on that are like. men calling themselves butch is fine, tbh, like the black 'gay' ball culture it came from didn't really see the need to delineate explicitly like that, so, whatever.

but men who have no other connection to womanhood calling themselves 'lesbian' is like... i don't get it. even if it's been used as an 'insult', it's an identity label before it's that. like the whole 'who can reclaim what' discourse is p stupid overall, just don't call someone a label they don't like, don't use labels as insults, don't use slurs as slurs, be considerate. so i'm not gonna say anyone can or can't use whatever. i just don't... get it. you want people to see you as a man without any qualifiers, except... that you're using a term that still means 'woman who exclusively loves women?'

like that seems misdirected to me, not necessarily like "a problem" but... considering how people act around straight trans people and especially straight men, with the radfem reactionary bleed-through we're dealing with, i understand why straight trans men are hesitant to label themselves that way and it's honestly none of my business.

i just don't see how like... a man can reclaim something that isn't even really about him as a man? like that's just people being transphobic and misogynistic about gender non-conformity.

it seems to not quite match what the intent is, to me, idk. like if i had to translate it to something i personally experience, it would be like me trying to reclaim 'schizo' even though i don't have schizophrenia or schizoaffective symptoms. i've had mild psychotic symptoms before, more to do with ptsd/anxiety/depression. but... that doesn't mean i actually fully understand that experience of diagnosis and marginalization through that diagnosis. i am 'crazy' in other ways that i am comfy joking about, just not that specific one. and i think that the distinction does matter enough to question why someone would want to identify with one over the other. not necessarily because there's a "right" way to identify, but because We Live In A Society etc, and it seems more thoughtful and compassionate to really consider the impact it has.

especially when like... if people are calling trans men lesbians as an insult, it's because they are being misogynistic about gender non-conformity and see lesbianism as an invalid 'choice' or 'lifestyle' for a woman. they believe that not adhering to gender and sexual roles makes a woman worth less. which isn't directly an insult to men, other than the misgendering of that particular man. although some people do very much misgender trans men as a class for similar reasons, on the assumption that they are all misguided lesbians trying to 'trick' innocent straight women. but, again, as much as that is transphobic, it's also very much lesphobic and misogynistic.

and again, this isn't about multi-gender, fluid, non-binary transmasc people or anyone who doesn't fit neatly into the 'binary trans man' mold. i love the diversity of experiences with gender and sexuality we all have and i think it's great when people find themselves fitting under a number of labels.

it's more about... binary trans men and binary cis men are the same gender. and lesbianism excludes men. so... it doesn't add up for that small portion of men to feel entitled to the label, even if it's been "used against them". i'm not gonna tell anyone they can't, regardless, because gender is confusing and blurry and the lgbtq framework isn't universal and shouldn't be. i just don't think i'm ever going to get that particular quirk.