The third installment of the “Venom” franchise finally has a title, “Venom: The Last Dance.” Sony has also moved up the film’s release date to Oct. 25, 2024, from the previously-announced Nov. 8 date.
Plot details are still under wraps, but Tom Hardy will return as the lethal protector Eddie Brock/Venom in the film, also starring Juno Temple, Chiwetel Ejiofor and Clark Backo.
Kelly Marcel will make her feature directorial debut with the project. She also wrote the screenplay from a story she developed with Hardy. Avi Arad, Matt Tolmach, Amy Pascal, Hutch Parker, Marcel and Hardy are producing.
The first two “Venom” films (2018’s “Venom,” helmed by Ruben Fleischer and the 2021 sequel “Let There Be Carnage,” directed by Andy Serkis) earned a combined $1.3 billion at the box office.
Sony first announced the third film was in the works during its CinemaCon presentation in April 2022. The project will be the first appearance of Venom since a credits sequence cameo in 2021’s “Spider-Man: No Way Home.”
In February, Temple opened up about the project to Variety, teasing that filming was almost complete. “We’re coming close to an end at the moment,” she said. “It’s been a wild, wonderful ride. It’s so new to me. It���s a big set! This is crazy. It’s been so much fun and I got to work with such cool people. I’ve been so lucky in my career to just have the most incredible casts. I can’t wait for it to get out into the world. I think it’s going to be a good one.”
Production on “Venom 3” was halted by the SAG-AFTRA strike last year, but cameras started rolling again at the end of November.
The Columbia Pictures film will screen in premium large formats and IMAX.
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Look, I know we’ve all been dunking on the thought of this film because “OH MY GOD THEY GOT THE MORBIUS GUY?????”
In all seriousness, though, I think it’s important to acknowledge WHY the people who were chosen to produce, direct, and treat the screenplay for the live-action Zelda movie have been.
Avi Arad has been a producer of major films such as LITERALLY every Spider-Man movie, a good chunk of pre-Marvel Studios Marvel films, and more recently, the latest of Sony’s uhhhh “Rogue’s Gallery Universe,” as I’m calling it. Yes, I’m talking about Venom, Morbius, and Kraven. Basically, the man knows how to organize a production and get a finished product in an expedient manner.
Derek Connolly, the screenwriter, has helped write the screenplays for Jurassic World films, The Rise of Skywalker, and most notably for video game movies, Detective Pikachu. These are all major blockbusters which all follow a safe, money-making formula. It’s worth noting his works are often co-written with other collaborators, which could very well be the case here as well.
Now the director, Wes Ball, is probably the one everyone’s most confused about. The man’s only directed the Maze Runner films. Why was HE chosen to helm the Zelda film? Quite simply, I think it’s because he knows how to get the job done. I doubt there’d be any squabbles over “creative differences” like some Marvel projects had suffered, and his directing style is likely very safe for a live-action Zelda film.
Basically, the people currently chosen have been selected because, in my opinion, the live-action Zelda movie is most likely going to be a very safe, no risk film that is gunning to make a lot of money, and these people know how to do just that.
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Is the Punisher in Spider-Man 2? An Investigation
A persistent yet specious factoid that the Punisher (portayed by Thomas Jane, or his stunt double, from the 2004 movie) can be seen in the finale of Spider-Man 2 has circled around the internet for decades. But is this really the case? Spoilers – probably not!
If you want a quick visual overview, check the video -- a longer text writeup is under the fold!
Foreword: The claims
The claims center around a man seen in the movie's finale: clad in a black jacket, he turns to look at Mary Jane as she runs through the park before turning back and continuing to walk away:
The man has no lines and is never clearly in focus during the shot, which centers on Dunst running in slo-mo.
The basic claim - that the Punisher appears here - does have several reasons it would be appealing or believable:
The Punisher first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #129, so a cameo in a Spider-movie would bring things "full circle"
The movie already features several cameos, including Stan Lee and Bruce Campbell
Pre-MCU crossovers are especially intriguing to a Marvel universe fan
A Wolverine cameo was considered for the first Spider-Man movie, setting a precedent for such crossovers
However, I quickly grew suspicious of this claim for several reasons:
Nobody can agree on the details: did Sony or Raimi want the cameo? Was it him or just a stunt double?
The only source offered is "the DVD commentary". There is never a specific quote given, and if it was plainly stated on the commentary surely the specific details would be easy to verify. This also makes for good cloud-cover, it sounds believable enough and who's going to dig out their old DVD and listen to two hours of chitchat to verify it?
The only places making this claim are clickbait listicle content-farms or user-generated pages like Twitter or Reddit. Neither of these are known for perfect sourcing!
This particular cameo doesn't make much sense to me. The Punisher of the comics is a vigilante gunman, why would a cameo feature him casually strolling through a park? 2004's The Punisher was set in Florida, if this is meant to be the same character why'd he move up the eastern seaboard?
Part 1: The Commentaries
Every time a source is offered to back up the cameo, there is simply a generic referral to "the DVD commentary". However, there are in fact three DVD commentaries for this movie!
I'll save you the suspense: I listened to all three and none of them mention any such thing. Here's the clips of the relevant scene in all three commentaries:
I have listened to all three commentaries in full, not just this scene. Relevant observations from all three:
Commentary 1: Director Sam Raimi and actor Tobey Maguire, and producers Avi Arad and Grant Curtis (Raimi and Maguire recorded together, as did Arad and Curtis - but the four are not together and the commentary combines elements of both discussions)
During the scene, Maguire speaks of how the ending of the movie reminds him of The Graduate. Raimi is mostly silently listening to Maguire. Neither mention the man in the park.
This is the only commentary to feature Sam Raimi - since most sources point to "Raimi on the DVD commentary", this is enough to disqualify them.
Avi Arad produced both Spider-Man 2 and The Punisher, even casting Jane himself, but makes no reference to the Punisher in his commentary.
Curtis points out that the priest at the wedding is played by producer Joe Caracciolo - if you're calling out one cameo, why not point out another one that happens less than a minute later? Several other cameos (noticeably Campbell) are also pointed out.
Stunt doubles are briefly discussed (for instance, mentioned that Rosemary Harris - Aunt May - wanted to do some of her own stunts) but never in the context of Thomas Jane's double.
The commentary mentions that Raimi considered cutting or even not filming the park scene altogether, making it unlikely that a special cross-production cameo would be set up in such a scene.
Commentary 2: Special effects supervisor John Dykstra and effects team (Steve Johnson, Eric Hayden, Anthony LaMolinara, Scott Stokdyk, Lydia Bottegoni)
This commentary is almost more like a special-effects podcast. Ock's arms don't appear until over a half-hour into the movie, but for that first half-hour the team is already going into deep detail on the production and design of the physical and digital arms. This means that - outside of action scenes - the commentary frequently is not directly discussing what is happening onscreen. Predictably, only general remarks about the approach to VFX design are given during the park scene and the black-clad man is not noted.
Commentary 3: Producer Laura Ziskin and screenwriter Alvin Sargent. This commentary is exclusive to the "2.1" extended cut
During the scene, Ziskin remarks on how Sargent wrote the scene of MJ running through the park but there was some debate on whether or not to include it. Neither mention anything about the man MJ runs past.
Many cameos of family and friends of crew, mainly featured extras in street scenes, are mentioned; Caracciolo as the priest is called out again as well. Nobody in the park is pointed out.
Several other Spider-Man characters not seen in the movie are remarked upon, including Felicia Hardy (Black Cat) being in several early drafts and Dr. Connors potentially becoming the Lizard in a sequel. But the Punisher is never mentioned.
So I can conclusively say that a cameo from the Punisher is not mentioned in any commentary for Spider-Man 2. I also searched to see if Raimi or Arad had ever mentioned such a thing in later articles or interviews, but found nothing.
This is enough to call the story "untrue", for me. Nobody related to the production of Spider-Man 2 confirming or even alluding to this cameo doesn't give it a leg to stand on.
Still, in the interest of being thorough...
Part 2: Is it even plausible?
Let's give the story the benefit of the doubt. Could it even be possible?
2.1: Scheduling
Spider-Man 2 filmed in New York from April 12 through May 13 2003. In the shot in question, Mary Jane is running through City Hall Park so that scene must have been shot during this time.
Thomas Jane was officially cast as the Punisher on April 3, 2003 (though he had reportedly been sought for the role for a while beforehand). Production began in July and filming (in Tampa, FL) wrapped in October.
So there is a little overlap where the Spider-Man 2 crew would've known that Jane would be playing Frank Castle. Whether they could get him away from pre-production (Jane reportedly spent 6 months training with Navy SEALs for the role) or if the low-budgeted, tightly-scheduled production of The Punisher would be willing to loan out their headlining star to a rival production for a blurry, silent, semi-cameo is a little less plausible.
Actual filming did not overlap – and even if it did, Tampa and NYC are over 1,000 miles apart – so it is impossible for Jane (or his double) to have popped over to the other set on a slow day.
2.2: The Stunt Double
The majority of places that claim the Punisher is in Spider-Man offer that it's just the stunt double, not Jane himself. Thomas Jane reportedly performed the majority of his own stunts (75% to 90%, depending who you ask) and the movie's credits do not list a double or stand-in for him.
According to IMDB, Tom McComas was Thomas Jane's uncredited stunt double on The Punisher (he also included The Punisher among his credits in a 2016 reel). Though he has appeared in other Marvel productions (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Runaways, WandaVision) he is not credited as appearing in Spider-Man 2.
If you want to familiarize yourself with how he looks to judge for yourself, McComas can be seen as a prison guard in the opening of Men in Black 3 (the slim man who tells Boris "You've got a visitor) or in the short film The Stunt Double.
To my eyes, McComas is pretty obviously not the man in the scene. Even accounting for the blurriness of the movie shot and age differences (I had trouble finding contemporaneous images of McComas, many are at least ten years after Spider-Man 2), things like his jawline, the overall shape of his head, and his facial features are noticeably different.
2.3 Thomas Jane
But could it be Jane himself? We get awfully close to a "smoking gun" here with a note in the letters page of Wizard magazine:
I have a question about "Spider-Man 2." I never noticed this in the theater, but does the Punisher (actor Tom Jane) make a cameo in the movie? I was watching the DVD and when Mary Jane is running through the park in her wedding gown, she passes a man in black who turns around to look at her, and I swear it is Tom Jane. This is the only person in the scene who takes special notice of her. If I am correct I hope my Marvel No-Prize is a good one because I have never won anything before.
(As an aside: despite the fan's assertion, the man in black is not "the only person in the scene who takes special notice of her". Although he is a little more in the foreground than other extras, several others can be seen staring at MJ or even stopping to do a double-take as she runs by.)
Wizard responded with:
"And you ain't gonna win anything now, either," says Jane of the Spidey cameo. "I can neither confirm nor deny that the skinny little, queeny-lookin'-er, wait, that is me in 'Spider-Man 2.' Natch."
So Bryan, it looks like your keen eye has gained you the respect of Tom Jane and junior detectives everywhere.
Still, we checked out the DVD ourselves, and sure enough—that guy in the right-hand corner looks an awful lot like the same guy who flung a pot of hot beans in Kevin Nash's face in "The Punisher." But, even though Jane admits to the cameo, some folks on our staff still aren't convinced! Check out this screen shot and you tell me.
I've only seen the clip circulated online, so I'm not sure of the source (and I'm not going to buy a bunch of old issues of Wizard off ebay to verify) -
The twitter user who provided the image said it was from the "Mega Movie Issue" from spring 2005
A 2006 forum post states it was from an April Fool's issue
A 2007 forum thread says it was mentioned in "the latest Wizard", though nobody in the forum is convinced that it's Jane.
Although Jane's response would be proof-positive for many, his flippant, noncommittal tone that doesn't even convince the editor makes me doubt that he's being serious. Couple this with suspicions that it may have been an April Fool's joke and the fact that Jane has (as far as I am aware) never mentioned this in any other interview, and the total lack of evidence from anyone involved in Spider-Man 2, it becomes even less believable.
But to be fair, in the spirit of Wizard's "you tell me", here is another comparison. These photos of Jane are all from The Punisher, which as you will recall means they were taken within months (if not weeks) of the Spider-Man 2 scene.
Although the resemblance is closer to Jane than McComas, I don't think this is him either. The park guy has a squarer head, wider jaw, different nose, and different profile. He seems to be wearing a gray rather than black shirt, and doesn't seem to have the "trained with Navy SEALs for months" build that Jane displays as Frank Castle.
3. Postscript
My theory as to why this caught on is what's known in editing as "eye trace". The shot just before has MJ running from the left to the right of the screen, so viewers are already looking to the right of the frame. Then a man pops in from the right of the frame, looking at MJ but also towards the camera - so people are more likely to notice this one guy. You can see the effect of this accidental emphasis in the letter to Wizard - he claims that "this [man] is the only person in the scene who takes special notice of her" even though it's quite apparent that several other extras are staring at MJ (one even stopping mid-stride to turn around and gawk).
Since the movie was first available on VHS and DVD, the lower picture quality of an already blurry scene also added to the plausibility of this being Jane; on Blu-Ray and 4K the differences become more apparent.
So I say: Myth Busted. or at the very least: Implausible
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