#Cinders Volume Two Issue Three

[rachetmath]

Pyrrha: Hi you must be Alyx.

Alyx: Yes.

Pyrrha: Well I just want to talk to you about something.

Alyx: I mean sure but what-

Pyrrha: Not what. It’s who. You know Jaune Arc?

Alyx: I mean y-

Pyrrha: You know the Rustud Knight? The one you betrayed? Who you poisoned?

Alyx: Well I can- *attempts to run*

Penny: *blocks her path*Nope. All attempts of escape are at zero right now.

Alyx: You can’t be serious.

Penny: As the current generation would say," Oh yes bitch. Try me."

Alyx: Okay I may have wronged him a little bit.

Lewis: A little? You completely poisoned him.

Alyx: Lewis you are not helping.

Lewis: At least like Jaune I was trying. But you never listen.

Alyx: Look I understand but what’s the big deal? He got back to Remnant.

Pyrrha: Why?! Why did you do it?

Alyx: I mean… well… I… um….

Pyrrha: Alyx, understand, you have two deadly women on both sides of you. If you don’t give us a good explanation well…. I guess we’ll finally see if you can fall from heaven.

Alyx: Well I saw this vision and I didn’t like it.

Penny: Understood, what was the vision?

Alyx: Um… I *whisper* don’t remember.

Penny: You what?!

Alyx: I don’t remember okay?!

Pyrrha: What vision? Who’s vision?

Alyx: I don’t know. The writers didn’t give me anything. I saved him though. That counts, right?

Pyrrha: No. He just survived.

Penny: Plus your ‘help’ could give him problems down the road.

Alyx: Like what?

Me: I mean the fan base speaks for itself. I mean the guy hasn’t been in Remnant for years it’s going to be kind of hard for him to readjust. Not only that he has to recover from years of isolation, PTSD, trauma, and because of you he might as well also be having trust issues. Not only that he had to leave another friend behind. You and the Ever After might as have shattered him

Alyx: Oh Oum.

Pyrrha: Yeah. Oum can’t save you. Penny.

Penny: Way ahead of you.

Alyx: Wait you wouldn’t hurt an innocent black child right?

Pyrrha and Penny: ………..

Me: Alyx you heard the saying, “Equal rights equal fights.”

Alyx: Let’s say I don’t.

Me: No matter your race. No matter your sexuality. No more matter your gender or age. You made a choice to do what you do. And as a result of said choice you must face said consequences. Weither they be good or bad. Basically you may be a kid but you were grown enough commit murder. And as such-

Pyrrha: You have this coming.

Alyx: *crying* I’m sorry. I just wanted to home. Jaune had no idea how. So I did what ever took. And then the Cat betrayed me and I died. Please? Don’t hurt me!

Summer: Come now ladies. I know you’re both upset but-

Pyrrha: Ms. Rose! Shut up!

Summer: I’m sorry? Who are you talking to?

Pyrrha: You are a nobody. You have been irrelevant for a while now. You left your daughters and died. Your daughter ain’t shit. Your team is still disbanded even after you died. You might as well be an afterthought at this point.

Summer: Said the girl who’s only job was to run away.

Pyrrha: I went out in a blaze of glory. I proved myself. What the fuck have you done?

Summer: Um.

Penny: Friend Pyrrha I know I have no rights to talk.

Pyrrha: Damn straight. You suffered more than myself. All you had to do was live. Instead, you traumatized my man. He just got over me too. Why would you do that?

Penny: Okay, I’m sorry. But, he’s going to be fine now. Let’s just let her go. And we pray he gets better.

Pyrrha: Fine. You're lucky Alyx.

Alyx: Thank you. But I am sorry.

Pyrrha: Shut up. Oum damn. If this story continues he better get stronger and kill Cinder. Because this is stupid. I mean how much trauma does one guy need? How he is not a villain? I mean, come on, he can’t be like Yuji, he doesn’t have skills like that.

Penny: Well friend W-

Pyrrha: If you say her name I will end you.

Summer: Okay woah, it’s been nine volumes why are you mad about this?

Pyrrha: One; he deserves better. Two; I prefer your daughter or anyone else than her. Three; she’s fucking useless. And four; it took him being an old man for her to start liking him. Fuck that bitch.

Summer: Well like said, if you stayed alive then-

Pyrrha: If you stayed alive maybe Qrow would have stopped drinking. If you stayed alive maybe your baby daddy wouldn’t be in a state of depression. Maybe if you stayed alive you could help your daughter learn how to control her eyes and be less useless in fighting the Queen of Grimm.

Summer: That was uncalled for.

Pyrrha: Move along side character.

[ficretus]

Gaslight masters

*during Volume 2*

Emerald: Aren't you worried about this psychological evaluation? On the account of us being...

Cinder: Oh please Emerald, this is a trivial matter. Only person who should be worried is Lionheart for not fabricating it for us.

Mercury: What's the matter Em? Afraid they are gonna dig up your mommy issues?

Emerald: Shut up Mercury. Still, what if they have some ways of digging through our psyche and...

Cinder: Emerald you are doing it again.

Emerald: Panicking?

Cinder: No. Thinking. Don't think, just repeat after me. Mask and deflect.

Emerald: Mask and deflect.

Cinder: Excellent. Do this every day and you'll be as proficient as me and Mercury in no time.

Mercury: We'll see about that.

Emerald: You are scared you'll never be able to match me.

Mercury: Not bad.

Cinder: Bravo, already making some progress.

Emerald: *smiling* Thank yo... *clears throat* Not that I care about your praise.

Cinder: Very good. Just mind your tone.

*door opens*

Ozpin: Miss Sustrai, you are next for psychological evaluation.

Emerald: Wish me luck.

Cinder: Sigh...

Mercury: It's still work in progress.

*1 hour later*

Ozpin: Now that I finished evaluating all three of you, I want to talk about something worrying with you.

Mercury: Em fucked up again, great.

Emerald: Me?!

Mercury: Who else. I wasn't the one that started crying for mommy half way through the session.

Ozpin: Oh, not Miss Sustrai. Longing for a maternal figure as an orphan is something completely normal. I wanna talk more with you Mister Black and Miss Fall. Miss Sustrai is free to go.

Cinder: Me? My interview was flawless.

Ozpin: Miss Fall, all you and Mister Black did was mask your feelings and constantly deflected.

Cinder: Oh please, vent your frustrations on your lackeys. Don't bother us.

Ozpin: I don't think so. For example, both you and Mister Black seem to have issues regarding paternal figures.

Mercury: Look whitey, just because your daddy didn't hug you doesn't mean rest of us have issues.

Ozpin: Yeah, this isn't working. I want to talk with your guardian.

Mercury: I see what this is, you wanna hook up with my mom. For shame...

Cinder: I don't see point of that.

Ozpin: But I do. Lets just say you are not leaving this room until I talk with them. Or perhaps do you want me to look into some other information, Miss Fall?

Cinder: Of course not. Here, take this number. That's our adoptive mother.

Mercury: *whispering* Are you crazy? He'll find out.

Cinder: *whispering* Relax moron. She is an expert.

Ozpin: Hello, this is Headmaster Ozpin from Beacon Academy. Is this Madam Fall-Black?

Salem: Of course not.

Ozpin: Can I speak with her?

Salem: I don't know, can you?

Ozpin: Sigh, Ma'am, are you Cinder's or Mercury's adoptive mother?

Salem: Mother? I suppose I am. How endearing.

Ozpin: I just wanna talk about their behavior. During the psychological evaluation all they did was endlessly mask their feelings and deflected everything I've said.

Salem: Oh my, how terrible. I'm so sorry you got offended.

Ozpin: This isn't about me. This is about the fact their way of communication is unhealthy.

Salem: Oh but it is about you. Always about you Ozma.

Ozpin: It's Ozpin. Look Ma'am, could you talk with them?

Salem: And tell them what? That there is a compulsive liar who gets offended by everything?

Ozpin: Ma'am, they need to be able to deal with their emotions and shortcomings. They can't mask them their entire life.

Salem: Hypocritical drivel. How did you raise your children?

Ozpin: For your information, I have a perfectly healthy relationship with my daughters!

Salem: I am sure you do. That's why only reason any of them would want to be in the same room as you is if they were comatose and on life support!

Ozpin: Wait what? Who is this?

*call ends*

Ozpin: *lights a cigarette* It's like I'm talking with my ex wife again. You two can go, can't deal with this shit anymore.

Cinder: *whispers to Mercury* Told you she still got it.

[strykingback]

I never did understand folks that put Jaune arc on a pedestal.

Why can’t people criticize him? Why can’t we use other characters than Jaune when it comes to ships?

I look at papi and the rest of the folks that don’t want anyone to ship characters because of their rules.

Even after explaining that this AU version of Cardin is being redeemed, heart of gold etc they ignore all of that because “canon” (same folks that ship Jaune with Salem or cinder)

What’s the point of writing a RWBY story if I am restricted to expanding characters that are not Jaune?

Honestly I never did understand the hype: he came to a school unprepared and with no knowledge of aura.

He refused training from Pyrrha despite needed it badly.

Complains about being a damsel when he foolishly never try to better himself.

Was harassing Weiss for a long time (and everyone ignores that one sadly)

“Conveniently” the bully arc fixes everything despite no payout. (Nothing earned truthfully)

This is not someone to look up too, heck I question how the whole harem thing works with him?

Sorry if I am being too harsh on the guy but it bothers me that any criticism to Jaune makes you evil with some fans.

Everything about this whole thing is correct anon, I'm glad you did send this in. Cause you are right about a lot of stuff.

Every character in RWBY is subject to criticism, whether it be how they are written, portrayed, etc. Also lets not forget the fact that even the entireity of RWBY's world-building can be brought unto question as well. Especially how they refuse to expand upon the World of Remnant alone.

As for Jaune, there was so many ways you can fix him as a character and in the end still make him better than his canon-counterpart. Just by doing a few things.

Making his semblance based around the Joan of Arc since that is his historical allusion.

Having him take accountability for cheating to enter Beacon Academy and with Ozpin saying while he is disappointed to know Jaune cheated to get in at the same time he wants to see Jaune grow.

Accepting to be trained by Pyrrha, his team, or anyone else that is willing to help him. Oc's/FC's count as well if you are doing a re-write.

Show why he wanted to be a Huntsman; I.E. To show his family that he can stand on his own two feet or because he wants to be a hero.

Not having him whine over Pyrhha's Death every three episodes in a volume.

Have him actually be awkward around Weiss but also accept that she isnt into him but then having a brain (as he should) and realizing that Pyrrha is into him.

And Most Importantly to better fit his Joan of Arc Allusion.

Having Jaune die as a hero in a rewrite of Volume three, post-beacon, or during the Atlas Arc.

I also do agree that the bully arc should have not fixed all of Jaune's issues as he received help from Pyrrha and should have realized that this was not him but Pyrrha assisting him as despite himself putting up a spirited defense/fight against the Alpha Ursa Grimm. It should have been enough to give him confidence to tell Ozpin about him cheating to get into Beacon and accepting Pyrrhas help to start training.

Once again you are totally fine. You and I also have the same criticisms about a character that we dislike. Which is something that papi does not understand. That any characters in any form of media are not safe from criticism at all.

[kitkatopinions]

Every single volume, Jaune becomes more and more proof that rwde posters in general aren't just "wishing a man was the protagonist" and "liking macho alpha men" like anti-rwde posters frequently say.

At the start of RWBY an argument could've been made that Jaune didn't fit the standard male power fantasy because he wasn't buff and battle-hardened and confident and knowledgeable. This argument would've been flawed because there's also a known male fantasy of being nerdy underdogs who get the girl anyway (like with Pyrrha) and who are still treated like they're super important, but it's still an argument that could've been made in the first three seasons.

Then an argument could've hypothetically been made that Jaune has non-romantic female friendships and shows deep emotions and stuff in RWBY volumes 4-6 and therefore doesn't fit a traditional mold of standard male fantasies despite having grown into a 'more built, strategist, leader role' and still getting special focus and attention. This would've been a flawed argument, because Jaune's emotional turmoil was built on Pyrrha's fridging and resulted in him taking on and holding his own against Cinder, and his lack of romantic relationships was more built on Pyrrha being his 'forever fall.' Very 'action hero who lost his wife' style of writing.

Then an argument could've been made very unconvincingly in volumes 7-8 that Jaune might be now getting played as a very muscley attractive guy that milfs lust after that keeps a cool head in arguments, but one could still argue that he was still not as experienced or skilled as Ruby, and also that he was less of a 'macho man' than the bearded older guy in charge of things that Ironwood was, and that Jaune's anger issues from the last few seasons had started winding down. Obviously this argument wouldn't be convincing, and wouldn't be a real counter argument to how he was being used and how his progress just read like a 'zero to hero,' 'kid who used to be a gangly nerd is now super desirable and cool' fantasy, but it could hypothetically be made.

But then in volume nine, Jaune becomes not only a bearded older man with all this information who is in charge of a village, but he also becomes a much more angry and prone to snapping person than ever, his emotional outbursts are now built on the deaths of two more women in Penny and Alix, and he quite literally becomes a hero of a novel he used to love as a kid, while Weiss openly is into him. Weiss, who is the girl he originally was perusing way back when who wouldn't give him the time of day. Jaune literally screamed in the face of a seventeen year old victim blaming her for stuff that either she wasn't at fault for at all or that he's at least just to blame for, and didn't get called out and instead got coddled and treated with more sympathy than Ruby. The fact that he got deaged back at the end just makes me think that the writers are intending to make him and Weiss get together eventually but didn't want there to be a twenty year age gap between them, despite the fact that he still has the memories of twenty years.

But yeah, Jaune always gave big 'male fantasy' vibes, but every single season it got worse and worse and he got more and more male fantasy vibes until he's become an angry macho man with a beard screaming in a teenage woman's faces and getting nothing but sympathy over it. And he's only gotten more and more focus and attention. So by all rights, if rwde posters actually wanted a man to be a protagonist and wanted macho manly men to be more in focus and treated as good and for them to get attention... We'd all be on board with Jaune and want more Jaune and like Jaune. Instead, with every single season, rwde posters in general dislike Jaune more and want him less. Whereas there's actually RWBY fans who do love and worship Jaune and want him around more and more and like half the fandom at this point are Jaune fanboys, but nobody actually pays any attention to them because apparently the real crime is thinking Ironwood's fall to villainy was badly written. XD The whole "Rwde posters just want men to be the protagonists and they love macho alpha men" is completely fake. It's a made up lie based in nothing that people throw around because they're mad that rwde posters don't like the writers' choices when it comes to Ironwood. XD

[gatheringkeepsakes]

I think a lot of this is just a result of media illiteracy these days. People want things spoon fed to them. I can't count the number of times I've seen people compare this show against something like My Hero Academia which reintroduces it's titular characters and their abilities to the audience every few episodes.

Viewers these days don't like subtext. They want to be told exactly what's going to happen and when something defies expectations without loud enough warnings, they get upset. RWBY does set up for its tone shifts regularly, it's just subtle in its approach that those victim to the "sometimes the curtains are just blue" mentality refuse to pick up on. Or just don't know how to.

From the start, we are given ample hooks into something more going on. Silver eyes, Ozpin as the man behind the curtain with many secrets, Cinder being a bigger bad we're waiting to reappear for the entire volume, it being pretty clear she's not the head of this plan either once she does get reintroduced, etc.

RWBY has a structure that it's followed consistently since the start. Each arc is three volumes; the first two establish the main setting and conflict for that specific region, and the third flips the story on its head.

Beacon starts with the introduction to Vale, the world, our heroes, and their daily lives. Then the tone shifts in V3 with many mysteries being uncovered and the big bad being revealed. But there are still mysteries to be uncovered. Like what Salem's motive is, how she knows Ozpin, and why she's talking to him as if he didn't just die under a scorched pile of rubble.

Mistral arc is the aftermath of tragedy, the travelling to and saving of Haven, and the reintroduction of Oz through Oscar. We get vague reasons for how Oz reincarnates, and even when he tells his story to RNJR, there are constant reminders from characters like Yang implying he's not giving the whole truth. That the audience shouldn't completely trust him. Then in v6, we get that tone shift from The Lost Fable.

Atlas is the same. Two volumes to try and save the kingdom, a third where we find out even more lore about the story - the world, the gods, AND our first concrete look into the mystery of Summer Rose's disappearance.

I agree that the marketing for this show has not been good and is still pretty awful if we're being honest. It doesn't help that Certain Videos on YouTube have literal millions of views talking about how awful the show is despite rarely knowing what they're actually talking about, it keeps a lot of people away just by word of mouth. Rooster Teeth as a company does not foster the best tone for its fanbase in general either, but I'm not going to get too deep into that.

The issue despite these things is that people engage with RWBY as if it's some big corporate IP when it's essentially an indie webcomic that just managed to get animated. I'd also argue that while the original descriptions for RWBY being an attempt at trying to make their own shounen, that is more of a demographic target than one specific genre. I've seen folks compare this show to long running fantasy novels from the 80s where they often start with low stakes school settings, then through trials, tragedies, and escalation, end up raising the stakes to fighting gods and then some. I'd also argue it follows a lot more of the subverted magical girl tropes as a subgenre than anything. Madoka Magica is a great example, same with things like Revolutionary Girl Utena.

As for not doing a good enough job to show it's a subversion... 6 out of the 8 main characters being girls in a "shounen" demographic series, is in and of itself our first clue towards this. Of the 2-3 male characters within the main eight, all three of them (Jaune, Ren, and eventually Oscar) have allusions to genderbends of female characters.

And on the topic of gender, there is absolutely an edge of misogyny to a lot of the unjust criticisms this show does get. Many of the people that focus so hard on criticizing team RWBY's actions are those obsessed with characters like Jaune, Adam, or Ironwood. But it's not just the more RWDE sides of the fandom that are victim to this. In retaliation to that subgroup of the fandom, many fans over-obsess on the female characters, often denying any viability to the male characters we do have. For example, the sheer amount of discourse towards Jaune getting any screen time in V9 as if he also has not been part of the cast since episode 1 & 2. Or those that infantize Oscar, treat him like nothing but an Ozpin meatsuit (which has been debunked in show MULTIPLE TIMES) or spend hours of their time arguing that that he could never have so much as a friendship with a character like Ruby, let alone something more (once again despite clear tropey and textual evidence to the contrary).

RWBY suffers from the same thing Steven Universe did. Another magical girl-esque show from 2013 that challenged the status quo of the expected genre, and as a result became a breeding ground for the most unnecessary - and in my opinion - unwarranted discourse imaginable. People, no matter what side of the fandom they're on, want this show to be something it isn't and refuse to meet the text where it is because they don't know how to. Or because they simply don't want to. And to view it as anything other than the reality they've convinced themselves it is makes them feel incredibly unsafe.

And as someone that's been watching since the first trailer aired, it genuinely breaks my heart. I do largely blame this fandoms inability to be normal towards fiction as one of the reasons it is struggling to get greenlit nowadays. Why would anyone who hasn't watched the show already in the 10 years they've had the chance to, be convinced to hop on now when this is the environment its fandom fosters.

I've had this thought swirling in the back of my head for a while, but it's finally congealed enough that I think I can make a coherent pitch, which is: I think RWBY's problems with the more vitriolic part of its fanbase partially stems from the fact that RWBY is a deconstruction that doesn't advertise it's a deconstruction.

RWBY's status as a deconstruction is pretty textbook. It takes apart standard fantasy, shounen, and anime tropes in order to analyze them and their deeper meaning and then reassembles them in new and interesting ways for the plot/characters/series. Thing is, it never says that outright in promotional material, which can lead to later outrage in fans.

See, unless their way of discovering new shows is to close their eyes and stab their finger at random, most people tend to choose series to watch/read based on expectations. Maybe a friend said they'll like it because it has [insert thing], maybe they read the summary and were intrigued, maybe they thought the poster/cover art was cool, whatever. These small pieces of information are generally enough for people to make a snap-judgment of the style and genre of the series, which they can then gauge against their personal tastes and decide whether or not they want to try.

Most of the time, this works just fine. Well-written deconstructions also generally give the viewers some warning/buildup before they take a hard swerve. See Madoka Magica: the magical girl paradigm is shaded by the possibility of death as soon as we're introduced to it, then there's an onscreen death with blood, and then a few episodes later we eventually realize the Faustian bargain of it all. Even innocent viewers who stumbled into watching it, unaware of the show's reputation, would go "Oh, wait, this is not going in the direction magical girl shows usually go" by a third of the way through.

The thing is, with RWBY, this does not happen unless you're paying a lot of attention and/or looking for it. And neither the cover art nor the summary nor, I believe, the fanbase gives a lot of warning about the swerves ahead.

In fact, RWBY initially bills itself as a pretty standard shounen anime. The main protagonist is hinted to have Special Powers and gets into the Magic Monster-Hunting School in the first episode, and the first two-and-a-half seasons are taken up by her and her friends' superhero-esque slice-of-life shenanigans as they thwart robberies and terrorist attacks and gear up for a tournament arc against the looming background of a larger conspiracy.

Then in the last half of the third season the villains' entire Rube Goldberg machine of a scheme snaps into completion and the plot twists so hard the entire genre takes a hard right. If you're used to character analysis and common anime tropes, this is not completely a surprise -up until this point, RWBY's character arcs and plot have been subtly traveling in non-traditional directions that hint of greater flexibility in genre treatment ahead- but if you're not... well.

Thing is, people watching RWBY up until this point have signed up for pretty standard shounen and they've been getting it, but the third season's ending smashes that all to bits. From then on out in RWBY, it's like they ordered fries and suddenly got a hamburger. It might be delicious; but it's not what they asked for, what they wanted, or what they paid for, and they are, justifiably, displeased.

So when the reasonable people either adjusted their expectations or sighed, shook their heads, and clicked back out (perhaps with a grumble and a scowl), the unreasonable people dug their heels in and began insisting that everybody was Getting The Show/Character Wrong and that CRWBY is ruining it, because the fact that RWBY's method of deconstruction is to put standard tropes in a blender and then arrange what's left in deceptive patterns means that said unreasonable viewers can scan the bare surface and argue that all the stereotypical stuff is clearly still under there, somewhere.

So they're continually trying to drag RWBY back to the tracks of a typical shounen anime series (it's closest relative), which creates a dissonance between the show they're watching and the show they think they're watching. They're trying to turn the hamburger back into fries, basically, except that doesn't work and just frustrates everyone involved, because you're trying to make RWBY into something that it's not. Hence, this attitude probably starting/fueling some of the more contentious statements in the fandom, i.e.:

"Ironwood was right the whole time" (in most action movies and shounen anime, allied military leaders are trustworthy beyond reproach)

"Adam's character was wasted" (we all know how much shounen loves their powerful warrior antiheroes)

"Ruby and the others are in the wrong about [insert thing]/or for doing [insert thing], and this is bad writing!" (shounen protagonists don't usually make more than One Very Big Mistake over the course of their entire careers, which is usually fixed/overcome/redeemed via an appropriately rigorous training arc)

And to be clear, there's nothing wrong with shounen tropes or shounen anime. They're wonderful storytelling devices in their own way and their own time: but if you want standard by-the-book shounen without any new and interesting concoctions, then RWBY is definitely not the show for you. And most people don't find that out until it's too late.

[cindersmagazine]

Double Exposure

In our amazing book filled issue, Cinders Editor @meabhmcdonnell spoke to author Adrianne Finlay about her new book Your One and Only, her writing process and her favourite science fiction.

Read it all here in Cinders new issue on pg.36 X

[itsclydebitches]

While I wish the show focused on RWBY and get side/secondary characters tf out of the spotlight, I can't help but personally find Jaune more interesting atm. It probably won't happen, but it'd be so interesting to see Jaune return home as he is and face his family. How would his dynamics change with his sisters now that he's the oldest? Is he now older than his own parents? How would they grieve not being able to witness even parts of his life? Would they be proud to know he's "lived up" to the line of warriors, and his parents don't have to wait to see him at his "best?" With the show having tone issues and putting comedy in objectively horrific circumstances, would Jaune jokingly flaunt his new maturity over his sisters? This is idea has so much potential that of course won't get developed or resolved satisfactory, as nothing in this show does. It's not even being done well with the immediately available characters.

Honestly... yeah. While I completely get why many fans dislike Jaune due to his meta problems (and why they might simply dislike him as a character, period) for me the result of giving him so much that should have gone to Ruby means that he's a more well-rounded character and, thus, more interesting to some viewers. Jaune has conflict to engage with. Just off the top of my head:

He's a classic underdog whereas Ruby's prodigy status means she's never really had to improve across the series. Even her one new skill, Silver Eyes, is mastered in a single fight.

Instead, Ruby's problem is that she's younger than her peers which has an impact for... three episodes? Especially since Weiss' issues with Ruby being leader seem to stem entirely from the fact that she wants to be leader, not because she's two years younger.

So Ruby gets a short arc about figuring out how to lead... which is what Jaune goes through too because he's also a leader.

Alongside this, Jaune gets a whole bullying arc that helps develop his character (even if it's pretty simplistic development).

Jaune is the love interest of Pyrrha who spends a ton of time with her whereas Ruby is just the kinda-friend whose relationship exists almost entirely off screen. Seriously, I know we all like to talk about how traumatizing seeing her die was for Ruby (and undoubtedly it was), but her "PYRRHA!" at the Vytal festival is the one friend-y moment I can think of off the top of my head.

Jaune accompanies Ruby on her Cinder quest, ensuring he's there to experience and grapple with everything our protagonist is experiencing and grappling with too.

He gets the armor upgrade and later new gadgets, despite Ruby supposedly being a weapons nerd.

As fans have pointed out in regards to the "Who is responsible for their failed plan?" debate, Jaune gets to come up with a lot of ideas across the series (good and bad) that Ruby then agrees to follow. Ruby was GREAT at coming up with cool combat strategies and plans at the start of the show and now that's all but disappeared.

Jaune has the extreme reaction to learning about Ozpin's secrets. I mean, I hate it, but I can't deny that it's more engaging than Ruby's reassurances that are immediately undermined by Qrow.

Jaune, Ren, and Yang are off LITERALLY FIGHTING SALEM AND NOT SAVING OSCAR'S LIFE while Ruby sits in a mansion drinking tea.

He's the one to kill Penny. Ruby might also have a grief arc this Volume, but that's lessened by the fact that it should have occurred six Volumes go and she only heard about this second-hand. That's a COMPLETELY different scenario from not just seeing the death, but causing it.

Jaune winds up in Ever After and immediately finds the contrived plot device that makes his life - as you've laid out, anon, - that much more interesting.

Ruby has a breakdown about how bad things are and so does Jaune... but to my mind he's got a lot more to complain about with a lot less responsibility too, so it resonates with me more. I mean, I don't really want to compare trauma - Ruby obviously has a LOT to be upset over - but I struggle to hone in on her "I hate having to cheer everyone up!" meltdown when Jaune is there having a "I've been alone for decades and now my village is dead!" meltdown.

And yeah, we can throw in a lot of Ruby specific things too. Sort of. She has Silver Eyes! ... which haven't been very important in the narrative and, you know, Jaune is the descendant of some great huntsmen family with hints that he'll be even more by the series' end. Ruby was targeted for kidnapping! ... once, while Jaune was there helping to defend her, and it's not something she ever reflects on. Ruby is the simple soul destined to save Remnant! ... and Jaune is now the Rusted Knight, a literal fairy tale hero who, as we've been reminded over and over this Volume, everyone in Remnant simply adores.

None of these are new complaints. Jaune gets too much screen time. He gets too much development compared to the girls. He's too perfect despite supposedly being a fuck-up at the start. No one who came to RWBY for the woman-led team focus is happy about this (or about Ozpin-Oscar being at the center of this fight). But the inevitable result of all that - if you can get past your frustration - is that Jaune is simply more interesting in a whole lot of ways. He's developed more across the series and now continues to have more engaging, logical conflicts. Jaune has lived a lifetime in a fairy tale and faces the possibility of returning to Remnant with an insane amount of baggage to overcome, to say nothing of how this would change how everyone interacts with him for the rest of the series. He still has a personal beef against the villains for Pyrrha's death whereas we haven't confirmed that Salem killed Summer, or that Ruby wants to hunt her down for that. Jaune is now falling apart for very legitimate, understandable reasons that none of us really need to nitpick because yeah, who wouldn't have a meltdown about spending decades in this place and then loosing a whole family? Meanwhile, Ruby is... sad about a death that already happened once and also that she "has" to be leader after demanding to be leader. One of these arcs is not like the other!! The fact that Ruby does have interesting things for the story to engage with - the mysterious death of her mother, the potential for her Silver Eyes to be the only thing that could hurt Salem, etc. - doesn't matter because the story isn't writing that. So yeah, hard agree, anon. The story is supposed to be about Ruby, I want it to be about Ruby, but the show continually goes, "Look at this more interesting, more developed, more conflict-laden character over here." Even if RWBY fails to do something good with all that - which inevitably it will - the potential is still more engaging than 99% of what Ruby has had going on since Volume 5.

[sir-adamus]

I think that's what's been sort of bothering me about the future of Neo since yesterday. Before last episode I was still sort of on the maybe we can talk her down train (because we really hadn't seen a whole lot of her this volume), but then yesterday happened and I was like "nope. Definitely not talking this one out." And I'm not even sure if she's coming back to Remnant after this. I know none of our heroes would be okay with it after this (Which is completely valid because she literally bullied and tortured a 17 year old until she broke). So the complete ??? of Neo's future has kind of rattled me. Cuz it would really feel weird if she doesn't play a conscious part in the final two episodes, regardless of the outcome, you know? I'm not sure I'm articulating this correctly.

no worries anon, i have difficulties articulating almost everything i say so i get it

yeah with Neo it's interesting because like; they have invested a lot of time and writing into giving us her perspective, her backstory, making her a three-dimensional character that has sympathetic qualities and we can understand why she feels the way she does even when she's clearly in the wrong - we started volume 8 in her perspective as she realises she's in way over her head with Cinder, rankles at being treated like an errand girl and not an equal party in spite of their deal (which culminates in her threatening Cinder to force her to make good on her end of it because she'd been pussyfooting around on it - and Cinder responded in her usual, extremely petty way), and then we got Roman Holiday and saw the full extent of how she ended up where she did and the issues she faced with being refused autonomy. like, they clearly want us to be invested in her character and the struggles she faces even when she's being fucked up and horrible; there's layers to it, it's fiction, we can be invested in the dimensionality of a character and want to see that character in a better place while still acknowledging that they're making horrendous choices

and right after the self-destructive spiral that it's been clear she's been on since she reappeared in volume 6 reaches its culmination, forced to reckon with the fact that she's got nothing else now, which is an interesting turn for a character - "and then what?" is a trope for a reason - but before Neo can make a choice on what she's gonna be now, or strip back everything and realise what she wanted in the first place (before she settled in what was ultimately a very unhealthy dynamic with Torchwick - again, understandable why she did, because he was the only person in her life that treated her with any decency or respect for her autonomy - but she had nothing outside of that, which then led to this spiral she's in and her current actions because, like many of the characters she has a lot of parallels with, it was something to do other than grieve and process the losses), she has her autonomy ripped away from her, to be used as a puppet by the malevolent entity that is using her as a mouthpiece, forcing her to speak with a voice that isn't her own

it's "and i must scream" taken up to eleven if she's still conscious in there, and what the Cat did is horrific and violating and no one deserves it regardless, but it's worse with the context of Neo's history how she's once again being used for someone else's agenda

i could see them doing a fighting from the inside thing with her because of all that context with her, rediscovering that her original goal was to be free and fighting against the monster trying to use her (for example by summoning the Jabberwalker with her Semblance, because the Cat has her body but they don't have her mind and that's what her Semblance draws from), and that could go a lot of ways with it being enough to buy time for the heroes to defeat the Cat with her going down with them or the heroes manage to exorcise the Cat but save Neo (maybe they have to save Neo to defeat the Cat, Jaune's semblance has been used to bolster people fighting against mind control before and with the way Neo's Semblance interacts with the Ever After she could unleash some hell on the Cat as a result) - and there's a discussion there if she'd be returned to normal or if she'd be changed by the experience, furthering the analogue she's been having with Ruby's progression through this volume (the idea of Neo's body still being altered even with the Cat's influence gone, and possibly some semblance of its powers remaining could be interesting to explore)

in the event she does survive, she's still left with "and then what", and the opportunity is there for her to make better or at least different choices, because revenge wasn't satisfying and it left her empty; maybe it'll be a walking the earth thing now that she has to decompress and deal with the shit she's been repressing (and the Ever After's basically built for that), with a now begrudging respect for the heroes for saving her ass (because like, if they can defeat the Cat without killing her they probably would, they're not executioners and continuing a cycle of revenge doesn't help anybody, especially if she's in no position and has no desire to fight back anymore), maybe showing up later down the line as a sometimes ally once she finds a new reason for being. or hell maybe in the "we haven't forgiven you for what you've done and we probably won't but we'll have your back as long as you have ours" situation that Emerald is in now

like, Neo's a messy and complicated character - intentionally - and this has all been left with a messy and complicated resolution because of the Cat hijacking her before her character could really be resolved - and i guess i'm maybe being optimistic here but this show is optimistic, even though we're in the darkest hour right now the optimism is coming

but i like the idea that we're not operating on something that's rigidly black and white, all-or-nothing kinda thing. that in fighting an impossible war on the scale we're getting to, you'll find allies in those who have done unforgivable things and the point is not to forgive them (and honestly the fact that people are still conflating redemption with forgiveness when they are entirely separate things is another thing that bothers me, and i'm on record saying in the most positive version of events i don't think Neo would even be redeemed, so much as it just being a heel-face turn and leaving it at that) but to accept that they're making better choices now in the moment and that's something you can work with

anyway this got long and rambly and probably not terribly coherent, but yeah

[invested-in-your-future]

Oh, I get what they were trying to do—mirroring it to Cinder's message at the end of V3 and everything.

BUT.

There are three issues with this: the issue within the execution, the issue with the consequences, and the issue within the message itself.

First of all, there's zero set-up or build-up. As far as the setting goes, it's literally a random girl (who also ends up messing up an entire Kingdom because reasons) delivering a vague message of hope and then disappearing.

If they wanted to execute a story beat of Ruby inspiring the people to do stuff, the show should have actually spent time building up Ruby as someone who CAN actually resonate with people

Like, having her matter in other Kingdoms before this happens instead of passing through Mistral's forests in a straight line, standing around a bit as the academy gets attacked, and then vanishing off into Atlas. It's been eight seasons, and they had plenty of time to build that up.

That way, she wouldn't need to deliver a message about how everyone should have hope.

She would be the message. A random girl who would have changed the lives of thousands by being herself—just enough for that message to reverberate through them and onto the masses.

Oh, look, suddenly there's the actual fitting thematic element of "smaller, more honest soul" having an effect on the world through nothing but her actions through the years. A payoff.

Cinder also didn't just deliver the message of despair—the fall of beacon, penny severed by Pyrrha, the march of atlesian robots attacking everyone—THAT carried her message.

Now imagine if V3 had just Cinder randomly sending a message how everyone shouldn't trust each other and that's it. Hilariously even then the negative of fall of beacon would STILL amplify it.

Ruby here doesn't have any positive event to personify that hope.

Right now, there's no weight behind her words. What has she done through the years? She spent V4 in a forest, she spent V5 trying to learn to punch things, she spent V6 trudging through snow, and she spent the next two volumes just kind of being there and even making things worse. Most of people that she knows are LITERALLY right in the same place as she is during this arc.

Likewise, what do we know about the world? As of this point in the story, we basically have no idea about anything in other Kingdoms. Mistral is barely an academy, a bunch of forests, and Raven's random weird bandit stronghold. Vale is literally forgotten, and Vacuo is but an idea from side-story novels.

There's not even a sense of worry that the very vaguely defined relics pose a danger to the world. Because the world doesn't exist beyond where the characters are. Because the relics themselves haven't been built up in any way beyond being used as plot devices.

I know it's supposed to be the whole message-in-the-bottle story beat, but that only works when there's a sense of a larger world within the story.

"Oh no, I wonder if Vacuo/Mistral are still standing", said nobody ever. There's a reason they use Vale specifically as the twist punchline in their cheap PostV9 PowerPoint presentation things. Because NINE volumes into the story, Vale is still the only Kingdom audience feels emotionally attached enough.

It's literally the same issue as with her moment in the V9 finale. The journeys towards this story beat aren't there, and, if anything, it feels out of order.

That said, even then, there would be issues.

You would have a huntress associated with Vale, TECHNICALLY infiltrating Atlas, then sending off a message, and then everyone finds out that Atlas had been destroyed.

TECHNICALLY, by her and her team.

That doesn't make her look good. At best, it makes her look like a villain, and at worst, some people would absolutely frame it as Vale "taking revenge" on Atlas for the Fall of Beacon.

Of course, the show isn't interested in exploring the intricacies of human nature and humanity's age-old issue with properly communicating with each other.

Before it even happens, the show has already decided that what she did will work because she's in the right.

Overall, before V9 came, for me, that moment was essentially the culmination of all the issues with the story structure in the show, highlighting all the missed opportunities, unfulfilled story beats, unearned payoffs, and so on.

A hero who, alongside her team, underwent character assassination and barely got any focus stars in a story beat she didn't earn, delivering a message not reinforced by the writing till then, appealing to the setting that is not established and the characters that have zero connection to the hero—all because of a threat (that hasn't been well established), looming over a setting that hasn't been established and that audience doesn't really care about being threatened.

And then V9 came and was like, "Hold my beer"

In hindsight, rallying people around hope would never work.

A random literally-who girl sending a worldwide broadcast about hope would never work.

Because positivity is an abstract idea. People tend to ascribe material, realistic boundaries to it—we wouldn't want to be naive, after all.

"Have hope for the future. If we work together, we can make lives better."

"Okay, but how? (How much will it cost? What's in it for you?)"

The only free cheese is in the mousetrap—nothing just happens for the sake of bettering lives, and all that. There has to be a catch, and if there isn't, then obviously, you are naive—and thus it's an impossible, fleeting dream we shouldn't pay any attention to.

But hatred works differently—it works despite reason and logic.

"It's their fault! They are being unfair and exploiting us! If we get rid of them, lives will instantly improve!"

"Sounds about right. The egg prices are too high."

That never gets questioned.

There's a clear enemy—someone different—to rage at. The Other.

Negative emotions aren't usually ascribed reason, after all—otherwise, they wouldn't be an easy solution to all the problems when sold by demagogues.

Oh, you want to prove that The Other aren't at fault, and lashing out against them won't magically fix all problems? That we can all live together as equals? You want people to have hope? Sounds naive.

Since hatred is always (rightfully) framed as unreasonable, it becomes comfortably so—it just is.

Hate can't be debated or hoped away—only rejected, ostracized, and extinguished.

Thus, hope can never be a literal weapon or an argument. Hope can be a character's inner motivation, leading them to do things that might inspire others.

It can be fuel, but never to be used literally.

[kob131]

https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBYcritics/comments/vpbf7w/okay_i_played_nice_but_i_am_going_to_finally_vent/

Hope you don’t mind if I vent to, because this is horse shit.

But then I was reminded of Volume Nine, of how CRWBY said, oh it's going to be Ruby's Volume, and then more came out, and we get a vague description, a name of some Island that is either going to be the afterlife or some bloody alternate future all samurai jack style or maybe not even any of those effing things!

And then of course it turns out they are going to introduce even more new characters. Despite saying this is Ruby's volume. You know....

RUBY GODDAMN ROSE!

I would like to point out that the closest thing to a ‘character’ that we know of is the talking mouse. Which given its first scene is to basically set up and act as a step in RUBY’S journey- this doesn’t really make sense.

And spoiler alert- the issue of ‘I completely ignored shit so I can angry’ is a recurring issue.

The Girl whose trailer sold the show long before the other trailers showed up!

Who didn’t HAVE a character at the time and could have been replaced with ANYONE in the show since it was about the ACTION.

The Girl the pilot episode was named after!

Ever heard of a red herring?

The Girl who has silver eyes that function like fucking Deus Ex Machinas!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

“Deus ex machina (/ˌdeɪəs ɛks ˈmækɪnə, - ˈmɑːk-/ DAY-əs ex-MA(H)K-in-ə,[1] Latin: [ˈdɛ.ʊs ɛks ˈmaːkʰɪnaː]; plural: dei ex machina; English "god out of the machine")[2][3] is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence.[4][5] Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.[6] “

By definition, they only qualify in Volume 3.

AND YET IN WHAT WARPED VISION OF REALITY COULD ANYONE EVER CALL HER THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER?!

WHAT HAS SHE ACTUALLY DONE FOR MOST OF THE SHOW?!

The reality we live in, where she is responsible for EVERYTHING after Volume 3.

No, really. Ruby chooses to leave, taking Jaune, Ren and Nora with her. By Jaune’s own admission, they would not have done so. She also motivated Yang to leave, leading to find Raven and thus rescue Weiss. Her presence also causes Cinder to push up their plan for Haven, which ends up fucking them over and foiling their plans. It also means Blake is able to stop them as Adam couldn’t get backup from Salem’s faction, to say nothing of how Ruby’s actions also lead to Tyrian being forced back instead of inevitably joining the fight given his hunt for the Spring Maiden.

Volume 4 and 5, thus by extension 6-8, only work because of RUBY’s decision.

But hey, maybe he has a brilliant rebuttal to this!

Volume One she legit did fucking nothing! It was mostly Blake that did shit!

... I didn’t know Volume 1 consisted of two episodes. Given that’s ALL that Blake is active for.

Then Volume Two? Once again it's Blake's stuff that is largely driving the fucking plot and Ruby just happens to be there! She fought Cinder for a bit, but that goes nowhere, and it's only real time they've fought, because Volume Three wasn't even really a fight, it was just deus ex machina!

Completely ignoring that Ruby is the one to decide to split up, involving everyone and thus ensuring the destruction of the Paladin.

Ruby: (Ruby raises her hand and does other random gestures, while looking manic.) Okay, all in favor of becoming the youngest Huntresses to single-handedly taking down a corrupt organization conspiring against the Kingdom of Vale... say aye.

And that she’s also responsible for going to Mt. Glenn.

Ruby: This is perfect! All we have to do is shadow a Huntsman working in the southeast!

Yang: Yeah! We'll follow them around by day and give them the slip by night!

Weiss: Let's check "search and destroy"!

Team RWBY approaches a hologram screen.

Ruby: Here we go! Quadrant 5 needs Grimm cleared out!

Blake: Well, it's in the southeast!

Yang: Sounds perfect!

Ruby selects it and types in her team name. However, the screen says that first years are not allowed to take this mission.

Weiss: Wonderful!

Blake: Any other ideas?

Ruby: We mail ourselves there!

Ozpin: (offscreen) Well, that's one option.

Ozpin suddenly appears.

Ozpin: Unfortunately, we determined that the concentration of Grimm was too extreme for first-year students. It seems that particular region is rather popular. In fact, I have the sneaking suspicion that you four will make your way there no matter which job you choose.

Weiss, Blake, and Yang glare at Ruby, who nervously rubs her head.

Ruby: Whatever makes you say that?

Ozpin: I'm still curious how you all found yourself at the docks last semester. I'm interested to know how you really learned about a hideout in the southeast. And I certainly wonder why witnesses reported seeing robots and rose petals in a dance club some time ago.

Ruby: Um... well...

Ozpin: I doubt I'll ever find the exact answers I'm looking for. So how about this: instead of waiting for you all to break the rules, why don't we just bend them?

Ozpin selects some things on his scroll, and the hologram screen makes a noise.

Ruby: We won't let you down. Thank you, professor.

As well as bring Zwei-

Oobleck: Young lady, what in the world could you possibly have in that bag that could be so important to bring it with... (Stops as the bag's zipper opens and out pops Zwei's head, causing everyone to stare at the uninvited guest.)

-Who in turn sets off the finale by following WF guards, leading to RUBY HERSELF following him.

Ruby: Huh? Zwei, it's late. Go back to bed. (Zwei runs off.) Zwei! Zwei! Ugh! (Ruby wanders out of the building, looking for Zwei.) Zwei! Zwei, where are you? Zwei! Huh? (Ruby spots Zwei urinating on some ruins.) Zwei, this is a wasteland! You literally could have done that anywhere!

Zwei: Bark!

WF Guard 1: What was that?

Having heard the WF Guard, Ruby hides behind some ruins.

WF Guard 2: What was what?

WF Guard 1: I thought I heard a Beowolf or something.

WF Guard 2: Hmph. Let's just finish our patrol and get back to base. This place gives me the creeps.

As the WF Guards walk away, Ruby and Zwei sneak around in the background, following them. They eventually reach a ruined building with a pair of metal doors, and Ruby hides behind a corner, holding Zwei out to watch them.

Ruby: Did they go in yet? One bark means yes.

The sound of the door closing echoes out.

Zwei: Bark!

Ruby: Oh! This is it! This is it! (She brings out a small scroll and tries to call her teammates. However, the screen says "Low Signal") Aw man! Come on, we gotta get the others!

Ruby and Zwei hurry off down the street. However, the asphalt beneath them suddenly sinks before caving in. Ruby grabs onto a ledge and catches Zwei. She tosses him up out of the hole and begins to attempt to pull herself up. However, the ledge she is holding onto breaks off, and she plummets into a huge cave filled with ruined buildings, far below the surface. She lands on a building up against a cavern wall, and as she gets up, a nearby door bursts open to reveal two other WF Guards, one of whom is Perry.

But sure. Being responsible for both of Volume 2′s ACTUAL conflicts is ‘not being the main character.’

Speaking of Volume Three is Pyrrha's Volume, and RWBY just happens to exist there.

Ignoring Ruby’s connection Penny and Qrow, important figures in Volume 3...and her fights with Torchwick which end with him killed before he could cause more damage...and going off to find Jaune and Pyrrha which leads to crippling Cinder and thus Cinder’s motivation from then on.

Real lack of agency, focus or connection.

Then come Volume Four, and while Yang is angsting on her ass, except no it gets glossed over because it's too fucking boring apparently.

You are begging for attention on a subreddit that made dealing with an overwhelming situation about fucking tea. Kiss my ass.

Weiss mopes until she is out of there.

I didn’t know ‘was forced to be a puppet by her father because it is the only certainty’ was “moping”.

And Blake instead of trying to stick around and protect her team and friends, she runs away to go cry to her bloody family! It being lucky that Adam didn't fucking carry through on his threat!

It’s called a ‘flaw’. I know basic writing concepts is not this subreddit’s forte but even ignorant high schoolers understand this.

And Ruby? Don't fucking make me laugh, Volume Three might have had her come up with the idea to go to Haven.

But she sure as fuck wasn't leading Team RNJR despite the name.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you who the leader was before Ozpin came along. It seemed to either be Jaune or Qrow.

Hold on, he forgot something.

And Ruby? Don't fucking make me laugh, Volume Three might have had her come up with the idea to go to Haven which single handedly caused the events of Volume 4+ to actually function but we all know you fucks are basically trained parrots.

But she sure as fuck wasn't leading Team RNJR despite the name.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you who the leader was before Ozpin came along. It seemed to either be Jaune or Qrow. 

Explanation? Uh....RWBY bad!

There, fixed it.

Ruby gets a little nightmare, gets a little sad, but NOPE CAN'T HAVE THAT, INSTEAD SURE, LET'S JUST FUCKING FOCUS ON JAUNE FOR A BIT, EVEN THOUGH WE JUST HAD RUBY HAVING A NIGHTMARE!

Which is shown to be caused by a recording of Pyrrha JAUNE had.

But hey, let’s check how that little thread ended. I know we are aware Jaune will completely overshadow Ruby because OP has been batting a 1000 so far but just to strengthen his argument, let’s che-

Ruby looks at Qrow before standing and approaching Jaune.

Ruby: I'm sorry.

Jaune: Huh?

He turns around to face her, though she is not looking up.

Ruby: This is all my fault. I should have never dragged you guys into this.

Jaune: You didn't drag us in. We wanted to come.

Ruby: But you didn't know about Tyrian, about—

Jaune: (cutting her off) Ruby. We lost... We lost Pyrrha.You lost her, too. And Penny, and your team, and in a way... your sister. But you're still here, despite everything you've lost, everything you could still lose, you chose to come out here.

Ruby turns to face Jaune, and becomes emotional as he continues.

Jaune: Because you felt like you could make a difference.

She lifts her head and looks at him.

Jaune: You didn't drag us along. You gave us the courage to follow you.

He puts his hand on her shoulder. She smiles at him, grateful, and he smiles back.

It ends with Jaune talking about how great Ruby is. Which anyone not huffing paint thinner would know that it was focused on RUBY then.

And then Volume Five... Oh look, Ruby has a little crush on Ruby/Jaune 2.0 with Wizard Mentor stuck inside of him. A character that is now as fucking important as Ruby herself, and he was introduced in volume fucking four, after three volumes, where our main character barely gets any fucking development, whose silver eyes are barely explored at all!

... Oscar’s the one with the crush, not Ruby. I know that you are desperately trying to play on the subreddit’s need to hear ‘RWBY bad’ in order to hide how contradictory to canon your arguments are but you must know: good lies require a core of truth.

And BTW- Ruby was the one to recover from seeing Blake first and ordered Yang to follow Raven and Cinder, which lead to them getting the Relic. So once again, Ruby single handedly shapes the following Volumes through her actions.

The little jackass is just thrust into being one of if not the most important character in regards to the plot more than Ruby, the so-called main goddamn character!

Not really, it’s just you and desperate critics saying that.

And all she amounts to in Volume Five, is getting one little letter, getting her ass kicked by Emerald, to make Oscar get the power of fucking super boner to go save her ass.

Blake: Yang?

Yang stares back at her in disbelief, before her sister snaps her out of her trance.

Ruby: Yang! Go! (pointing in the direction of the vault entrance)

Yang runs forward. Emerald and Mercury try to stop her.

Emerald: No!

Emerald tries to stop Yang, but fails to and falls to the ground. Mercury grabs her prosthetic arm. Yang's eyes briefly turn red before turning back to normal. She detaches her arm and continues forward, causing Mercury to lose his balance for a bit. She jumps down the hole leading to the vault. Emerald and Mercury attempt to give chase, but they are stopped by an ice wall that suddenly appears in front of them. They turn around and see Weiss with her Queen Lancer summon as she prepares to fight the both of them. Jaune watches from his position and smiles. Ruby then turns back around to look at Blake, and both nod at each other as the cat Faunus goes back outside to join the battle.

Wasn’t lying when I said that Ruby is responsible for Volume 6 onward too.

And all she amounts to in Volume Five, is getting one little letter, getting her ass kicked by Emerald, to make Oscar get the power of fucking super boner to go save her ass.

You know, for a supposed Ruby fan, you sure do love ignoring her accomplishments.

Almost like you only like a certain version of Ruby.

And what does this all amount to for Ruby? Nothing! Because now at least when she made a choice to go to Haven, it was her own fucking choice.

But now? Oh she just heads to Atlas, because Ozpin said so.

Ozpin. The guy who actually knows what’s going on and what to do. 

This is like that one trope of a salesman tricking someone into buying shit by appealing to their pride, except the salesman is 100% serious.

And then Six finally tries to give Ruby shit to do. But what does she fucking do? She drags the painful truth of Ozpin's past out of Ozpin, and her team just watches by, calls him a bastard, and her Uncle is allowed to just punch a little boy, who while I fucking hate Oscar right now, since I am in full fucking rage mode. And will cool down eventually, that punch was still out of line!

So, gonna mention that RUBY was the one to comfort Oscar?

Oscar: (grabbing the cane) I'm just going to be another one of his lives, aren't I?

Ruby: (puts her hand on his) Of course not. You're your own person.

No? Weird since you’re SUUUCH a Ruby fan...

And then she later fucking balls on her Uncle, forces him to quit drinking, pretty much tells him "Fuck You" In her "We dOn'T NeEd AdulTs" Speech.

... Qrow kept drinking himself into a dysfunctional mess every given chance, constantly kept bringing the mood down in a world where negativity attracts DEADLY Grimm and did fuck all to help. Cry me a river.

And then I could maybe excuse stealing the airship into Atlas, if there was no real other solution but there was, Weiss could get in, with the relic and maybe Qrow in his bird form.

*pulls out a tape recorder and presses play*

“Weiss was specifically stated she could go HOME, to her STAUNCHLY ANTI-IRONWOOD father who LOCKED HER AWAY. And crows can fly at max 40 miles continuously. Atlas is farther away on the map than me and my mom at 90 miles.”

What was the actual fucking point in that conflict? Nothing! But the fact they just wanted to show off a big fancy mech! But it did nothing for the characters.

Cordovin: Surrender for your crimes, and accept your punishment.

Ruby: (defiantly) No!

Cordovin gasps in shock as Ruby's friends look to her.

Ruby: We're going to Atlas. Bigger people than you have tried to stop us and failed, but we're supposed to be on the same side! We're supposed to use our power to protect people, but you just use yours to look down on everyone!

Cordovin ponders Ruby's words.

Ruby: We didn't want to steal from you. We did it because you gave us no other choice! Now I'm giving you one last chance to stand down and hear us out.

Silence for a moment.

Cordovin: I've heard enough...

Cordovin then aims her arm cannon at Ruby. Ruby's friends run over to her in panic.

Oscar: (reaching out) Ruby!!

Qrow gains a look of horror on his face as Cordovin fires up the arm cannon. Suddenly Ruby uses her Semblance and flies into the arm cannon.

Cordovin: WHAT?!!

Nora: She's NUTS!!

Ruby continues flying into the arm cannon.

Jaune: The missile launcher springs out... but the raw dust gets locked in!

Inside the arm cannon, Ruby plants Crescent Rose into the ground and takes aim at the buildup of Dust. She fires and uses her Semblance to quickly get out of the arm cannon. Suddenly, the arm cannon explodes, covering it in ice and stone.

Cordovin: What?! No! NO!!

As Ruby flies backward, her Aura runs out and falls unconscious. Her fall is slowed down by black Glyphs from Weiss, and Qrow catches his niece in his arms. Weiss collapses in exhaustion as Jaune, Ren and Nora run over to her.

P.S. remember that ‘for the characters’ bit. It’ll bite him in the ass in 3...2...1-

And then Volume Seven happens, and she lies to Ironwood, because sure why the fuck not. It's not like he didn't give her sister an arm, it's not like he didn't fight alongside her uncle for years, helped during the Fall, or was accommodating to them, and let them on his plan.

I won't be too much of a simp for Ironwood, and claim he was flawless, I love him but he did do some wrong things. But he didn't do anything wrong at the beginning that would warrant Ruby to fucking lie to him, not only does it insult Ironwood, it insults Ruby's own character who barely got any development, but what I can say for absolute certainty, is the Ruby Rose of Volumes One and Two wouldn't have fucking lied about something that important.

It was one thing when she and her team were tracking down leads on the white fang and roman in Volume Two. That was a personal matter, and they still didn't know the larger picture.

But to just lie about Salem and the Relics? And her immortality? Shit that everyone should probably know before trying to pick some big epic fight with Salem? Just fucking hell!

And despite how her team confronts her about it, they're just as bad because they wag their little fingers, but they have no trouble going behind Ruby's back to Robyn and letting her in on secrets, yet they couldn't be bothered to let Ironwood know the truth.

And the writers couldn't even let Ruby own up to Ironwood, no who did they give that burden of responsibility to? Oh yeah Ruby/Jaune 2.0. Not Ruby Rose.

Hey look at that, him completely ignoring Ruby’s character to bitch. Who knew?

A. Ozpin did more and still proved untrustworthy. That is not how people work.

B. Ruby tried to sneak off to fight the White Fang, with despite what you say WASN’T personal.

C. Almost like she’s MEANT to be wrong.

D. Gee, not like YANG confronted her over NOT TELLING THE TRUTH which SHE did.

E. And who confronted Ironwood on his decision, was portrayed as his counterpart for the heroes and remained his opposition in Volume 8? ... Ruby? Oh damn that pesky canon!

But surely she got some cool new upgrades? Some scenes with her dear friend Penny? Or I dunno anything? No?

Not even a rematch with Cinder... Oh Cinder got scared and ran away when Ruby's eyes glowed.

Okay... uh anything else... no that's it...

“She got to be the driving force. Again.”

“AUGH! IT BURNS US! IT BURNS US!”

And then Volume Eight...

Ughhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh let's just shove her into the fucking mansion, and let Yang, Jaune, and Ren go into the fucking whale. Not Ruby, not Weiss, or Blake, just sure, no wonder people keep thinking Jaune is the real main character you bleeping-

And then that plan, that fucking plan, and maybe it would've even worked somewhat, except, the writers don't even let her use her silver eyes once, because they know that Cinder shouldn't have any fucking chance at all. And don't give me horsecrap about her needing to focus, because in the previous volumes, she seemed to do it near instantly.

“Sir, we have video evidence that a lot more happened and it directly contradicts you.”

“Well I don’t see it!”

“That’s because you gouged your eyes out.”

Okay now that the rant is over. Time to get somber.-

By ‘somber’ he means, ‘dig up Monty while proclaiming he isn’t to preach about how RWBY was better with him even though his own arguments would say otherwise, all while trying to tug on your emotional connection to Monty so that you won’t think.”

I’ve said it a thousand times so here’s a thousand and one: Just dig up his corpse. You’d be more honest. Fuck you and fuck your emotional manipulation,

As I demonstrated, your arguments mean nothing. You go in looking for confirmation of your feelings and thus ignore the ever growing mountain of evidence against you. Nothing you say matters because you’d say it no matter what. You coculd have avoided all of this by putting in less effort.

You choose to get angry. And so, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[bridgyrose]

I know Im beating a dead horse, but the longer I see people keep double standards between the men and women in RWBY, the more I wonder why these people keep watching a female led show.

For instance, there's a lot of people who want Cinder to die at the hands of Jaune, but take issue at the idea that maybe she doesn't deserve to die and needs a chance to change, meanwhile Blake and Yang give Adam a few chances to stop fighting after he's made it clear he intends to kill, and then everyone's up in arms that Adam was killed because he refused to take that chance.

There are plenty of people that felt like it was a badass moment for Adam to cut Yang’s arm off and in the same breath will say that Ruby has no moral compass or isn't a true good guy for dismembering Tyrian after he tried to kill her uncle and take her.

And it all continues with people praising Ironwood for wanting to abandon Mantle the moment he realizes Cinder is there and villainize RWBY for making the choice to stand their ground and save as many people as they could.

And that's still not touch the queer rep we get. Sun helps Blake for two volumes and suddenly people claim Blake owes Sun her heart, meanwhile Yang had been there for Blake for three volumes, has a couple heartfelt talks with her, risks her life to help Blake, and then continues to be by Blake’s side once she returns and everyone claims their relationship is sudden or has no build up.

Even when it comes to talk about redemption, Cinder is condemned by most of the fandom because she's stuck in a cycle of abuse that she's never had any help getting out of, meanwhile a good portion of that part of the fandom gets upset that Adam didn't have a redemption and claim Blake or Yang or Cinder or even Ilia stole his character.

And we still have people comparing Naruto and Goku to Ruby as "speechy" protags and condemn Ruby for trying to talk Raven and Ironwood out of their current actions while praising Naruto and Goku for doing the same to theirs.

Its exhausting. Is it really so bad to have just one show where the women leads get to do all things people want men leads to do?

[rachetmath]

Favorite (Characters)

Ruby: *barges in* RatchetMath!

Me: What is it Ruby?

Ruby: You’re showing favoritism.

Me: Okay. And?

Ruby: You need to stop. Why not draw us for once?

Me: Hm, maybe because I like Jaune more. Hell I like Penny and Neo more than you or your team.

Ruby: Why?!

Me: Because your team is horrible.

Ruby: So is team JNPR!

Me: Yeah, but only because they have to follow you. They have some individuality but we don’t explore that as much. Plus, your team would be dead without them. But you know what Ruby, I would rather draw Yang, Blake or any other character except Weiss than you right now.

Ruby: What?! But I’m-

Me: The main character that barely does main character things. Woman, Salem was in Atlas! Why was she not your top priority? Why was James your problem?

Ruby: Um well…

Me: Ruby, she knows your mother! She might know what happened to her! I get Yang was some levels your mom but shouldn’t learning what happened to your actual mom be just as important? Especially after that dark memory.

Ruby: That is true.

Me: You have silver eyes but you still don’t know how to use them. There was army of grimm around Mantle and that would have been good practice. And a better solution than Ren.

Ruby: But then I be overpowered.

Me: No. Ruby your silver eyes only work on one person. If someone sneaks up on you or doesn’t care about that light you give off then, you’re dead. Maria is proof on that.

Ruby: Um..

Me: Plus, the question that everyone in the audience could have an answer to is whether your silver eyes can even work on Salem. In all honesty, it proves the writer don’t keep track of the characters and their personalities to where they fit together in story. You know what I have been making skits, trying to be funny but… the jokes died. Look guys I-I’m sorry but… let me explain.

1. Ruby and Blake should have stayed in Mantle. Why?

1. Salem is the main villian. She knows Ruby’s mother. You know the same mother who left for a mission and didn’t come back. The same mother, who Ruby knows nothing about while everyone seems to have different perspectives of her. Or has a better clue on who she is, than Ruby herself. Plus wasn’t Salem after her too? She basically would be killing two birds with one stone by kidnapping Oscar and giving Ruby a reason to see her. That way Ruby isn’t assuming what happened to her mother. Let Salem antagonize Ruby. (Question: Can silver eyes work on Salem?)

2. Perfect training for silver eyes. Let’s face it, Ren proved to us he can mask a bunch of people without Jaune’s help. All he needed was concentration. However, Ruby is more effective because silver eyes seem to be able to destroy multiple grimm on sight. And with lives on the line that gives Ruby plenty of reason to start using them.

3. Ren calling Ruby out on her issues. Look I loved how Ren was willing to tell the truth, but him revealing Jaune cheated Beacon was… weak. Reason being it relates to Jaune’s character and Ren still follows Jaune’s orders. However, Ruby, who is supposed to be a prodigy because she came to Beacon two years ahead of her class, has not proven once that she is worthy of such praise. The only reason-The ONLY reason Ruby was enrolled into Beacon was her silver eyes. Ruby even in volume one has been nothing but liability. Initiations, she almost dies from a Stinger. Stake out, she almost got run over by a truck and it ended in failure. First mission, she gets kidnapped and almost destroyed a city block. Roman, a man with no semblance or aura continues to beat her four times in a row. And it gets worse. Ruby almost got her uncle killed. She was the first to get knocked out by Emerald. Almost dies by a robot and Godzilla. And the moment she arrived in Atlas her first move was to lie to James. She didn’t even try to stop Tyrian when she saw him. She had her gun with her too. Ren is not her sister, he might as well tell her the facts so she can do better.

4.  Blake is Faunus. Mantle hates faunuses. Why not have Blake help them to prove faunuses are people too? Let Blake represent her people. I mean Velvet and Sun represent faunses more than she does her whole existence. Blake also can relate to Ren’s problem. How? Blake was a part of the White Fang, so there were expectations she had to fulfill. Especially when trying to measure up to Adam. However, she explains the longer she was in the White Fang, the more she found out how messed up and extremely bias it was. Including with Adam to the point she decided to leave. She even states she was lucky that Yang even forgave her after all the trouble she caused her. Blake challenged her bias nature, and it made her stronger for it. Blake would be basically telling Ren the more he tries to live up to someone else’s expectations, without seeing their flaws, the more he loses touch with himself and everyone around him.

5.  Oscar shouldn’t have been able break out of Salem on his own: I’m sorry but… Oscar got beat up. Took a magic beam to the chest. Had to switch between him and Ozpin and mind you he had no aura to help him. He should be tired and unable to move. (In my opinion, this kid was given too much screen time. At first I was worried about him but now I’m wondering why was I worrying at all.)

2. Jaune and Yang should have gone to Atlas.

1. Penny is basically Pyrrha in the opposite light. Penny’s special because she’s a robot with a soul, a mind of her own and an attitude to prove it. She is just as human as everyone else, but no one seems to treat her as such. James only sees her as something of a weapon. Pietro treats her like child even though she’s more mature than the rest of the female cast, except Maria. And now with maiden powers, everyone is out casting Penny even more. Jaune is perfect for her because he has experience with this kind of issue. However, he would’ve had to take different route to the situation considering his failure with Pyrrha last time they had discussion on maiden powers or responsibilities (Destiny.).

2. Jaune already has been a part of maiden business since volume three. His reason to be with Penny would be make sure she doesn’t meet the same fate as Pyrrha or Amber. Not just for himself but for others around him. Especially since Cinder was in Atlas and is willing to hunt her down for the maiden powers. And James was willing to turn Penny into a soulless machine to follow his every command. (Actually, Watts is more a fault considering he hates Pietro.). James and Cinder are also opposite to Jaune in some ways.  James earned his position and earned respect from his military. Jaune on the other hand cheated, and unlike James might not have everybody’s respect. Cinder treats her allies like tools. And with power she just consumes and gives nothing return. Jaune however treats his allies like family. And instead of just taking power he gives power to others around him. He’s the reason Cinder has maiden powers. So, him making it his personal mission to make sure Cinder doesn’t get more power only increases his resolve to protect Penny. (Especially since he already had to kill her in the canon finale.)  In other words, James and Cinder purposed a challenge to Jaune. Can he pervert history from repeating itself? Can he really protect the maiden powers? Is he truly worthy of being a huntsman? What is he willing to risk in achieving his goal? (Also let’s be clear. Hazel beat Oscar down for the password to the relic. James shot the kid and was willing to let him fall to his death. Qrow intentionally punched the kid.  I don’t care if it was for Ozpin, he still punched Oscar. Lion before even knowing Oscar was Ozpin reincarnation was already about kill him anyways. All Jaune did was push him to a wall. Yes, Jaune still would have hurt Oscar, but he didn’t. He walked away.)  

3.  A lot of the situations could’ve been avoided or mattered if Jaune was there. Don’t believe me? Well let me explain. Was Ruby the only option when sneaking pass Central Command? No, because they had Weiss, Nora and Penny. Weiss could have done a freezer burn like in her fight with Marrow. Or Nora could have thrown her grenades and Penny just shoots them before the hit the ground or damage anything. Both causing a smoke screen, so no one sees them. Plus, they were already caught by using Pietro credentials. Did Nora need to get knocked out for the team to escape? No. If she had Jaune with her they could’ve one caused an EMP wave being Jaune has gravity and Nora has lightning. Or two, if Nora still went through with it, Jaune would have healed her immediately. Penny lifting and keeping the arena in place. If Jaune and Weiss were with her then once Amity was in position, Weiss with Jaune’s assistances can keep it place so Penny can come back inside and the whole video could be played. Also, Pietro would know what was going on with his daughter and can properly explain how to fix her. (Better than Jaune healing her.)

4. Nora’s whole character is knowing who she is without Ren right? Then why not just have her lead the evacuation once she’s done with Atlas? Why not have her and Yang work together along with the happy huntress to evacuate Mantle? Especially if their friends disappeared to save Oscar. (And before ya’ll tell me they can’t do it….. Yang, blocked a punch from a mech, held off a Manticore, and has a semblance that literally lets her take damage and dish it back five times harder. Nora who literally crushed Weiss and Yang in a food fight. Knocked a giant horse down on its knee. And knocked Hazel away.  Are you seriously saying these girls are not enough to take on a few little tigers? Come on!) If the whole point of Nora’s character development was finding out more about herself then let Nora try something without Ren. Let her call the shots. Let her take charge. Give her a character. (Hell don’t stop there. Have her interact with other characters. Like Jaune. Yang. Weiss. Or anyone other character than Ren. Let them tell her what they think about her. Let Nora be a solution to a character’s struggle. Ya’ll make it sound like Nora has no friends.)

5. All Yang needed was a break from Ruby and Blake. In all honesty Yang should have been the one to see the hounds face and kill it. Why? Well Ruby is Yang’s sister and only reminder of her nonblood related mother. And Blake is her girlfriend. And if we saw the hound’s face, we know it’s not just a silver eyed person. It’s also a faunus. This will give her a reason to protect both her loved ones because by seeing the hound she knows Salem intention with Ruby and want to keep her, and Blake from meeting the same fate of being turned into monsters. Yang should’ve been the 2nd to 4th member of team RWBY to fall. Why? One, a Yang vs Neo fight. Two, Cinder and Neo both wanted Ruby dead. So why not get rid of Ruby first? The fights would have been more thrilling and seeing the character, the show is named after, presumed to be dead would have added stakes and tension to the fight. (Also let me say this. Why is it, that the only great display of the maiden powers I’ve ever seen, was from Amber and not the maidens, as of now, Winter, Raven, and Cinder? The maiden powers are basically magic right? Why isn’t Cinder using any other element than fire?)

6. Weiss was completely useless. Look, as the saying goes, “You can choose your friends, but you can’t choose your family.” And when it came to Weiss and family, she has little to no clue of what it is nor deserves it. Weiss should have been more of an inspiration for Whitley to do right. How? By simply talking to him. What reason would she have other than Mantle? Simple, he’s her brother and she started off like him. Beacon, she was a brat. She was arrogant. And more importantly a jerk. Blake ran because of her racist attitude. Ruby literally had to impress her to prove she can be leader. Even though Weiss is not leadership martial herself.  Plus, hearing May and how she and her family never resolved their issues should inspire Weiss to not repeat that mistake. And guess what, her mom, Willow, the drinker of the family, wasn’t wrong. Both her and Winter left Whitley alone. Klein wasn’t there for him either. All Whitley had was his father. So Weiss, actually acting like his sister and trying to help him allows him to feel less alone. Instead Weiss was complete Jacque through out the entire volume.  

And that’s all.  Look I know I should have seen this coming but I had to say it.  Volume 8 could’ve been good. The problem was.

1.       Characters are not placed well within the story.

2.       We lost track of who said characters are.

3.       The ships are in the way.

4.       Being dumb for the plot. (Sometimes it’s necessary.)

[whitleyschn33]

Nitpick November: 09

You’re seriously trying to tell me that Ruby Rose, daughter of Taiyang Xiao Long and sister of Yang Xiao Long, wouldn’t even know the basics of unarmed/hand-to-hand combat? You’re telling me Taiyang wouldn’t make sure that his little girl could defend herself at least somewhat competently if she lost her weapon? Slander! Outrageous! 

Look, in all seriousness, I get the idea of wanting to do something with Ruby growing as a fighter, in taking an area where she’s demonstrably been lacking in the past to her detriment and having her work to improve herself. I pulled up V2 E10, when Ruby falls into the underground without her scythe and gets caught by the White Fang, and she does attempt to fight back with hand-to-hand, but only getting a couple shots before being easily overpowered. When brought to Roman, she does attempt a couple more punches, to no avail, before trying to run for it (and failing). This does seem like a potential set-up for Ruby wanting to get better at hand-to-hand so if this kind of thing happens again, she’s better prepared. It’s not even a bad idea to have an episode or two set aside for a mini-arc at some point where the girls have to learn how to fight in styles they’re not used to. We’ve already seen from the food fight how creative the girls can get when using improvised weapons, but how about seeing them learn new skills from their teammates to help each other grow as Huntresses and have new options? We could see Ruby, Weiss, and Blake learn hand to hand from Yang, Blake teaching Weiss how to shoot a pistol and Ruby teaching Weiss how to use a sniper rifle, Weiss and Blake showing Ruby and Yang their two styles of swordsmanship, and what improvised weapons work best with both style - it’s an idea that I do like (I’ve already said watching Weiss pick up Blake’s gun to shoot at Cinder through tears was one of the very few things I liked about the V8 finale). Hell, I’m pretty sure classes on hand to hand and marksmanship should be required at combat schools and Huntsman academies no matter what your style of fighting is, to prepare you for moments if you lose your primary weapon - we got scammed out of seeing Yang demolish everyone in Unarmed Combat class.

The problem with this “arc”, though, is threefold. One, like I said at the top, it seems unlikely that Taiyang didn’t teach her any hand-to-hand (not Yang level, but at least somewhat competent) so why focus on this point specifically? Two, that it comes way too late after V2 to seem timely (this really needed to come up in some mythical V2.5). Three, and most importantly, hand-to-hand is a completely meaningless thing to focus a training arc on in the face of HER MAGIC SILVER EYES. Like, no, we’re not going to have Ruby train her magical new power that can blast Grimm into ash and stone that she ignored all last volume, it’s more important we watch her learn to fight hand-to-hand and headbutt Mercury one time in the same volume to complete her “arc”. Rather than question Oz about her legendary laser eye beams, watch her learn about the power her mother had as well and train it with Maria (who, fun fact, was supposed to be in V5 originally), while developing Ruby’s relationship with her mother and her morals as a character as she practices, we have to watch her teeter around with Oscar in a boring, unnecessary mini-arc of learning to punch someone effectively.

I just don’t understand why the writers chose to do this, to write a training arc about Ruby training anything but her brand new protagonist power-up. We already have Yang dealing with an “over-reliance on her usual fighting style” type arc last volume; why give Ruby the exact same thing but with her weapon when you could be fleshing out and training her Silver Eyes. You wrote them in to be this huge OP power move that would be a godsend to any huntress, and Ruby just never cares about learning about them or how to use them. Why pull away from this pressing issue to talk about a flaw in Ruby’s fighting style that hasn’t been relevant in 3 years, and out of all flaws to have, doesn’t make a lot of sense in the first place considering she’s Taiyang’s daughter? Again, I’m not expecting her to be Yang, but I refuse to believe that Ruby would be completely helpless without Crescent Rose - that Taiyang would let her out into the world without some knowledge of hand-to-hand. It feels almost as if the writers still hadn’t figured out how exactly the Silver Eyes worked, and threw in this meaningless mini-arc to waste time and make V5 the most forgettable volume while they scrambled to figure out something for the Silver Eyes.

[skye-huntress]

Ice Queendom Dub Reaction

Episode 1: “Red, White, Black, Yellow”

These won’t be as long as my initial reactions to the subs, mostly just commenting on the voice work and things I messed before

First off, they look like RWBY, now they finally sound like the RWBY I know. Secondly, now that I’m not dividing my attention reading subtitles, I can properly appreciate everything else on the screen and even the other sounds besides the voices themselves. Another thing is, and this is probably just an issue with translation, but the sub dialogue sometimes felt awkward, but the English dialogue as well as their delivery feels much more natural.

We really started off with Ruby saying to her mom that it’s been a while. It really has from our perspective, the beginning of Volume 3 when we see Ruby actually talk to her mom. If we ever see Ruby talk to her mother again in the main show, imagine all the things she’ll have to say, that she needs to say. I might come back to that thought another time.

After some thought, I understand and can forgive why we don’t see Klein as we know him best. For one, it saves the surprise for Volume 4. Two, Klein’s personalities were all sort of present in Weiss’ dream, which was a pleasant surprise.

BTW, they kept coming back to that courtyard from Weiss’ character trailer. Making it a place where Weiss remembers her grandfather is a nice touch. I don’t think Nicholas Schnee has been directly mentioned in the show, yet. A shame as he is as much an important figure in Weiss’ life as much as Summer is to Ruby.

I mentioned this before but as disappointing as it might be that Yang doesn’t get to do much this episode, it makes sense. Volume 1 didn’t do a whole lot for her and the Yellow trailer is mostly just her blowing up a nightclub for no real purpose other than to show off. The only thing Shaft could really do with her character is focus on her relationships with the other three.

A little weird to hear the new Torchwick VA, especially with how little we’re actually going to get from him, unless we do some Neo flashbacks or something. Though perhaps not as weird as hearing Old Man Shopkeep speak actually coherent words for the first time in nearly a decade.

You know, I’m glad that is all we see of Cinder. The less I see of her, the more I can enjoy the rest of the show without having to worry about what shitty thing she’ll do to our girls.

They changed up the silver eyes line? I felt like that line was one of the classics, although having Ozpin mention Ruby has the same eyes as her mother makes it sound a little less out of place.

[kitkatopinions]

So let me get this straight: Hazel after killing all the huntsmen in Mistral and brutalising Oscar for most of v8 (and people dont come with "Ozpin took most of it" its still Oscars body???? Hello????) gets an redemption via death but Ironwood who we know since v2 and was always an ally and a really cool character till v8 dies as a iredemable villain???? How? Why? Its just so dumb... love you blog btw

You know, this reminds me of seeing posts that were like ‘RWDE posters are mad about Ironwood not getting redeemed and yet they don’t like Hazel or Emerald being redeemed???’ And just... Yes, Kathy, the two are incredibly different.

Ironwood has been a hero for seasons who has displayed flaws and made mistakes but was not ever treated as a possible future villain by the narrative, and he was treated as pure evil before he tried to do anything more evil than ‘saving the people he can since he can’t save everyone,’ but then started getting pushed into the maniacal heartless abuser villain role at lightspeed within one season + one episode of the show and (I cannot stress this enough) two or three days of in show time. Our main characters treated him like a monster without knowing about the more villainous actions for the better part of the season, without any of them wondering if there was some mistake, no sympathy given to the fact that Ironwood had his back against the wall or was suffering from mental strain or a horrible injury, no recognition of anything that the mains did badly that maybe contributed to the situation they were in. His ‘fall to villainy’ was outlandish, over the top, out of character, and lacking in any real emotional depth, they blamed him for all of Mantle’s problems despite him having done his very best to ‘go for both’ and Jacques Schnee and Watts being the actual ones responsible for the state of Mantle - as well as huge systemic issues that Jacques was purposefully trying to preserve. He then was (most likely) killed off by the writers who then laugh at how it was ‘always planned’ while no single person in the group of protagonists gives a care.

And on the flipside, you have Emerald and Hazel! Both of them spent seasons being three times worse than James at his worst (seriously, he at least had good intentions.) Emerald and Ironwood’s direct kill count is the same (one,) and Emerald contributed to the deaths of hundreds more at the Fall of Beacon, knowing what it would lead to, and only gives small, rare indications that she feels remorse for it (it’s almost sad.) And Hazel is hinted at being responsible for many of the deaths in Haven and spent his time blaming Ozpin for the fact he was actively trying to murder children. Both of them continued their villainy right up until the very season they got redeemed as they both continued working with Salem to bring down yet another kingdom and while Hazel was beating a fifteen year old, Emerald was eagerly volunteering to help Cinder try and murder Penny yet again. And then when it was revealed that Salem wanted to destroy everything including them, they turned out of self preservation without apologizing for their terrible, harmful, murderous actions. And then the narrative acts like Hazel was some martyr who taught Oscar a valuable lesson about not letting anyone else die and isn’t it sad he died before he could do the bare minimum to earn any sort of redemption. And Emerald winds up having friendly laughs and getting endearingly teased by the people she’s arguably hurt the most, with the girl she’d murdered right there laughing with them. And now she can get away with now being part of the group without any indication she’s changed, no apology, anyone that protests her involvement being scolded for their lack of trust...

One of these things is an incredibly badly handled hero-to-villain story, where they failed to get the beats of emotional depth for a fallen hero arc and rushed it instead without care, leaving it feeling out of character and out of the blue despite the small bit of groundwork that they had in place for the narrative.

The other two are incredibly badly handled villain-to-hero stories, where they failed to get the beats of emotional depth for good redemption arcs and rushed them instead without care, leaving them feeling very insincere and out of the blue despite the small bit of groundwork that they had in place for the narratives (mostly on Emerald’s side, Hazel gave less indication.) 

Also we weren’t playing Yankee Swap, we didn’t trade in James as a hero for Emerald or Hazel, we just had three characters who were all handled badly.

But yeah, it’s really weird that the same volume where the writers were trying to force us to sympathize with Hazel was also trying to force Ironwood into an irredeemable category. The thing is, if I didn’t know about James’ never-mentioned-in-show semblance, I’d not be down for a post volume 8 redemption because I think trying to kill children and actively wanting to torture people as a full grown adult is kind of hard to get redeemed from. But Hazel did that, Hazel is just as if not MUCH MORE evil than Ironwood, so why on earth did the series treat Hazel as redeemable and kind of right and just needing a hand of mercy extended to him? Why was James ‘keep soldiers off the battlefield, turn my gun around because I don’t want to hurt Qrow even though I think he’s trying to murder me, look away from the Grimm while I shoot it’ Ironwood treated as the 100% deserving of pain and death and treated as totally irredeemable villain no one could sympathize with?

When you factor in his semblance it really just makes even less sense. I literally cannot comprehend why the RWBY writers do what they do. Also, thank you so much for the compliment on my bog! Sorry to kind of rant there haha. XD 

[aspoonofsugar]

RWBY Chain Of Faves

Who are your top 10 favorite RWBY characters and why?

Hello anon!

Thank you very much for this ask! I love talking about faves!

1) The murder kids aka Emerald and Mercury

I have talked about them here and here and I’ve shared some minor thoughts here and here.

I think their story has yet to enter its climax, so the metas on them are not as finalized as those on other characters. Still, the set-up is all there and I love it. As I say in the metas linked, they are a unit (body and soul, weapon and semblance). They are also two of the characters who mostly explore the cycle of abuse (together with Cinder, who is both victim and perpetrator).

I like how they are given the chance to screw up very very badly (and are given consequences for their actions), but are also always framed as two kids who try to be toughter than they are.

What is more, I love their relationship and their dynamic with Cinder. I think both bonds are very complex and are shown rather than told. This is why Emerald and Mercury’s body language is very effective imo. Their closeness is mostly conveyed through them glancing at each other or how they move around each other. This makes sense because they are in a place where they can’t speak freely.

In particular, I like that their relationship is deep, but not idealized. They care about each other, but are too scared to save each other. This is why Emerald needs the help of an adult (Hazel) to leave her abusive environment. This is also why she is recovering in a healthier environment that also lets her understand the consequences of her actions better. At the same time, Mercury who is instead stuck with another abusive mentor can’t currently escape.

When it comes to each one of them individually...

Emerald’s design and semblance are among my personal favourites. Her semblance especially is at the very top of my list. It has so much potential thematically and flexibility in terms of use (invisibility, transformation, specific illusions fitting a character’s flaw). I hope they use it more and in diverse ways in the future to show Emerald’s growth. For example, how cool would it be if she used it to help another character overcome a panic attack? Or if she helped Ruby enter the mental state to use her eyes with it?

I also really like she has a specific fighting style that fits her thief motif and is very different from others. It is less scenographic, but  very pragmatic and I love it.

I also liked the focus she received this season and I think it needs to be finalized. I am curious on how it will happen.

Mercury’s background is the one which breaks my heart the most. The little we know is horrible :( I also think it is a story that heavily relies on symbolism to convey the idea of abuse...

Marcus took Mercury’s legs, so he can’t psychologically escape the cycle of abuse... Marcus told Mercury he needs no crutches and Mercury is refusing to aknowledge his hurt and to heal... Marcus’s violence messed up Mercury so much he is not sure what he wants and his semblance is missing to underline it.

I wonder if we will discover more about his background or if what we have so far is all. I can see it go both ways to be honest. Also, Tyrian’s interactions with Mercury are interesting and meaningful, but also terrifying. I both want more and I am scared of having more :’’)

I am also looking forward to see how his allusion will be used. As for now, he has the potential to have at least three different motifs going on. The one of Mercury the God, the one of Mercury the metal and the one of Mercury the planet. Curious to see what is done with them!

Finally, I’m the One is one of my favourite songs because it is full of foreshadowing and perfectly conveys what their characters are about. I would love to properly analyze it one day, even if I have used it in multiple metas already :), so I am not sure I have new things to say.

The same can be said about their fight against Coco and Yatsuhashi and their fight with Cinder against Amber. In a sense, those two fights are complementary, since the first one foreshadows their major assets that are properly shown and charged symbolically in the second.

In short, their fight with Coco and Yatsuhashi is how they want to appear:

I'm the one that your mama said 'Don't mess with them or you'll end up dead That type they don't follow any rules'

Their fight against Amber is who they are deep down:

I'm the one That was born in a nightmare a murderer's son

I'm the one Who rose out of filth and was loved by no-one

3) Penny

She is the protagonist of the Atlas Volumes and has my favourite arc so far.

Her arc is contradictive, sad and powerful. In a sense, her whole character is written to hurt :’’’) She is given a happy and enthusiastic personality to hide how tragic her story is.

Penny is an example of how to write a specific kind of tragedy, where the main conflict does not lie in the character’s flaw, but in the environment she is in. Penny wants to be a “real” girl, but others won’t let her. This conflict escalates until she tragically manages to affirm her personhood in death.

At the same time, she is given self-issues that can be seen as a flaw and tie to her environment. She is self-sacrificial and struggles to see herself as a true person. Still, this flaw does not really drive her plotline (others’ control of her does) and, as @hamliet​ has stated, it does not eat everything around Penny.

So, she dies tragically because she never gets the chance, not even to overcome these self-issues, but to properly face them. At the same time, her death is powerful and cathartic because she negates others’ control and manipulation. She negates the mechanisms that had her develop self-issues to begin with.

Is it a happy outcome? Not at all. It is sad and contradictive. It is gray, but this is precisely why it is powerful. It manages to convey and explore complex and contradictive ideas. It does not offer an answer, but only bittersweet questions.

I also really like how Penny’s allusion is used in the story. It is played straight in terms of plot since Penny becomes human as the story goes on. However, it is problematized in terms of themes. It conveys that humanity is about making choices and experiencing both happiness and pain. Finally, Penny’s final scene is an inversion of the original novel.

Penny is not the Blue Fairy’s creation, but the Blue Fairy’s creator:

She goes from Creation (passive, a child) to Creator (active, an adult).

Incidentally, Penny too has one of my favourite songs. Friend is beautiful and it perfectly describes her arc. It conveys how much she loves humanity despite how complex and painful it is. The music starting slow and melancholic to gain more power as it goes on describes Penny’s life beautifully. It is a story that ends too soon (the music interrupts at its most vibrant), but it is still a melody full of love for life:

An answered prayer A chance to Share the world To be a girl Who fin'lly felt alive

4) Cinder

Cinder is probably the most complex and best written character so far.

She manages to make me feel for her and to make me incredibly angry with her at the same time :’’’)

I have written several metas on her, so you can read my thoughts on her background, the focus she received this volume, how I think her arc will end and some minor symbolism.

Cinder is built on an equilibrium between victim and perpetrator. She is both and the narrative strikes perfectly with its framing of her. It is both sympathetic and strict and most of all tragic because no matter if Cinder wins or loses... she keeps spiralling either way and she can’t understand she is fighting a worthless fight.

She is also full of interesting motifs and symbolism. One I would like to explore more in the future (and for it to be explored more by the story itself) is her fall motif.

She chooses the surname “Fall” herself when it is decided her first target is the Fall Maiden. This makes for a nice juxtaposition between her and Winter.

Cinder is born with nothing. Her own name refers a substance almost completely burnt, something with almost no color. It is a very humble name, so she chooses a surname which is important. It is a surname that hints to her role as a vessel of the Maidens.

She is not chosen to be a Maiden... she is not supposed to be one. However, she decides she is going to take the power even if it is not hers. She is taking destiny in her own hands.

Winter is born with apparently everything. However, this is also why everything gets decided for her. She is given the name Winter before she was born. Similarly, Ironwood chooses her as the Maiden even before she discovers about them.

Cinder sees Winter as having everything Cinder deserves. However, she misses how Winter is facing very similar struggles. She might be given what Cinder is negated, but she too has to make that destiny hers. She has to take her story in her own hands, just like Cinder.

At the same time, Cinder’s fall motif is linked also to the idea of falling. She falls and makes others fall. Exactly like she burns and is burnt. The orange of her flames aesthetically calls back to the orange of the falling leaves.

This idea is also conveyed through Cinder constantly mistreating and even killing characters representative of sides of herself.

She abuses Emerald and Mercury aka her child selves.

She kills Watts aka her negative foil.

She kills Pyrrha and Penny aka her Maidens’ foils.

It is clear that all this hurting and killing parts of herself won’t end well for her. I mean, she, not Salem, is the one responsible of the two major deaths in the series (Penny and Pyrrha), so she is bound to receive consequences.

Another thing I love about her is how her intelligence is people focused. She is very good at reading and manipulating others and this is how she wins her major fights. This is both her flaw and her major asset. I like it because I think RWBY is good in showing different kinds of intelligence and Cinder’s one is very coherent with her personality.

Finally, I love how her Cinderella allusion is used. It is a deconstruction of the original fairy tale that is born from a question: “What if Cinderella were not the kind victim of the story, but a bad victim?”. It is also interesting how the key character in Cinder’s allusion is not the Prince or the Stepmother, but the Fairty Godmother who fails her twice (Rhodes and now Salem).

As a side note, I can’t wait for The Truth to be out in its complete version.

5) Oscar

Aka the one who deserves nothing of what he gets :’’’)

I love him because he is an example of how to write a character who is a cinnamon roll, but that also is not boring and has complexity.

His struggle is about his sense of self. He starts the story by wishing to become more than what he is, but he does not like that this “more” turns out to be about fusing with another person. He wants to grow not to lose himself to another entity.

This is his major fear:

Who will you see? There in the darkness When no one is watching Who will you be? When you're afraid And everything changes Will you see a stranger? Feel proud or betrayed?

This is well conveyed also by his relationship with the rest of the group. He starts as the odd man out and others mostly rely on Ozpin rather than him. He sometimes even seems to disappear behind Ozpin. However, as time goes on, he forges genuine bonds and he becomes dependable on his own. He becomes even more so than Ozpin because he has something Oz lost out of cynism. The ability to trust.

In the Atlas volume he is the character that embodies the thematic statement about trust:

Oscar: You want him to trust us? Then trust me.

The point is that to be trusted you should trust first, even if there is no guarantee it will work.

It is interesting because the theme of trust is explored starting with Ozpin, Oscar’s foil, who does not trust others, so our protagonists feel betrayed. However, in Atlas they find themselves in Ozpin’s shoes and must choose if to trust Ironwood or not.

Here, we explore a form of conditional trust. This idea is presented by Ruby, who wants to be sure it is safe to trust Ironwood. So she keeps secrets and studies him until she decides she can trust him... only to discover that was not the case immediately after. This happens because trust can never be completely safe. Actually, in its most negative declination, this kind of trust becomes the control symbolized by Ironwood.

No matter what, trust is always a leap of faith. This is why trust is a risk. Oscar shows this concept well. He decides to still trust Ironwood at the end of volume 7, but it does not work. Still, he does not stop and decides to trust Emerald and Hazel. This time his trust and faith are repaid. He is fred and gains a new ally:

I love Emerald and Oscar’s interactions btw :’’’) It is good that Oscar is the one who is growing closer to her. They escape Salem together and Oscar has not been hurt by Emerald the same way the others are.

Anyway, even if trust is worth it, the exploration of this theme in Atlas actually ends on a negative note. It ends with Cinder who is an enemy of trust because she uses others’ trust and feelings against them.

Anyway, Oscar is a key character and I can’t wait for his story to develop more!

6) Ironwood

He breaks my heart.

He is a an excellent tragic Hero.

He thinks he is the Great Good, but this is precisely why he spirals out of control and falls with his own Kingdom, hated by his allies and forgotten by his enemies.

His downfall stems from his inability to trust, his refusal of emotions, his single-mindness and mostly his convinction he is better than others. This idea is structural of Atlas society and is seen in many of his inhabitants. No matter the social class, we see multiple people thinking they deserve better and that they are above others. This is why Atlas falls and his people becomes refugees in the poorest Kingdom of Remnant.

Anyway, Ironwood thinks he is better than others, so he should be the one deciding for others as well. This idea is flawed and perfectly conveyed through his ideology of sacrificing everything. He feels he has everything, so he can sacrifice what he wants. Still, this is not the case. Others’ lives and feelings are not his. He doesn’t own them.

7) Weiss

I love Weiss. She has one of my favourite designs and one of my favourite semblances and fighting styles.

Her snowhite allusion being played to explore the idea of a dysfunctional family is very good.

In general, I love how much she has grown slowly, but steadily and how she has progressively become warmer. I enjoyed her interactions with her siblings this season. She also gets many moments where she shines for her humanity and intelligence.

She is both Snowhite and the Prince, but also the Huntress that changes and makes others change. She becomes an inspiration for her whole family and since the Schnees are all in Vacuo and she will eventually join them, I am curious if there is going to be more about their family dynamic.

Other than this, I am excited about her Nevermore summon, what is means symbolically and when she will use it.

8) Ruby

I think Ruby’s arc must still enter its climax and that she will shine towards the end of the series.

That said, I love her as a protagonist. She has an interesting set of skills that makes her competent, but not invincible. Moreover, I like how she is important and a participant of the plot, but also does not single-handedly solves everything by herself. She has to learn just like the others. For example, this volume she learns that trust is a risk and the importance of taking risks.

Moreover, she is actually very rarely the protagonist of a volume climax. Speaking of the most climatic volumes, Pyrrha is the protagonist of the climax in volume 3, Yang and Raven are in volume 5, Penny in volume 8.

The climax where she is the most in focus as a character is volume 6 and that is the volume where her eyes are explored and her personal arc is set up. That said, she still manages to be important and to contribute to the action in many ways.

I think her role is to inspire others and I guess that by making that speech this volume she is gonna grow into a symbol even more. If that happens it will be interesting to see what this means for her.

Apart from this, I am curious about her subplot with her mother and if it will tie to her choice to save Cinder with her eyes (since I think this is where we are going). She is going to be both Hood and the Huntsman who kills the Wolf and saves the Victim.

9) Nora and Ren

They are my favourite canon romance.

Their story starts with Ren getting focus (with Nora as a support) and is slowly shifting to Nora developing as her own person (with Ren as a support).

It fits for them to be one of the series main romances because as characters they both explore the concept of emotions and emotional intelligence.

I would say Nora is one of the most emotional intelligent characters in the cast. She is aware of her own feelings for Ren and tries to push their story forwars. She quickly picks up on Pyrrha’s crush and encourages her to make a move. Honestly, she sees herself as a dumb jock, but she is far from it. She is one of the wisest and most sensitive characters:

Nora: You shove people out so you don’t have to feel things that are hard!

Ren is ironically the one struggling with feelings, even if his semblance is all about emotions. In a sense, it is as if he develops it precisely because he struggles with this part of himself.

As a child he is easily overwhelmed by emotions like fear, which goes in the way of his actions. So, when he is under stress he deveops a magical power that lets him control this part of himself. However, as time goes on, it becomes more and more obvious that he should face his own feelings. And once he faces them:

Ren: No! No one is replaceable.

Then he becomes able to see both himself and others more clearly.

In general, both Ren and Nora must overcome their issues if they want to end up together.

Ren’s issue was his fear of being completely vulnerable and to open up with another person. Nora’s is her complete dependance on Ren and how she sees herself as only a part of him, while she is much more.

As a side note, Ren finally confessing his feelings for Nora only to be (temporally) rejected is a great note for his character arc. He was repressing his feelings out of fear, but now he has grown enough to take a risk (opening up, showing vulnerability). Well, this risk does not pay off immediatley. Nora asks him for some time and this is surely not how Ren would have hoped things to go. Still, he understands and supports her. He takes an emotional risk that does not pay off immediately, but he is able to live with it.

In terms of writing, I also think Raven is top notch. Moreover, Winter is a lowkey favourite as well.

I also like some minor characters like Ilia, whose background is built on a very interesting premise that fits her chameleon motif, and Whitley who manages to be helpful even if he is not a fighter. Velvet also has a cool weapon and semblance that tie with her photography motif.

I also love Yang, Blake and Jaune aka the other members of the main cast.

In terms of design, many of my favourites have also my favourite designs (Emerald, Weiss, Mercury, Cinder, Penny, Winter, Ruby, Ren and Ilia).

Other than them, I love Neo’s design, characterization and fighting style:

Finally, I also like Tock’s design and concept, even if she only appears once.

Thank you for this ask! I had fun with it!