#For Jiang Cheng that’s his responsibility to his sect and to their people | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

dani474 · 4 months

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Tell us your theory on why he says that PLEASE. I don’t think it’s true they have to fix things 😭

So, this post points out a huge flaw in Wei Wuxian's response and its discrepancy to what we know of their relationship in canon. The Golden Core transfer is one of MANY things they need to discuss to get past their estranged, brittle, slightly obsessive relationship.

When we take a close look at why Jiang Cheng is so angry and so hurt here, it's not just about his family or any debt Wei Wuxian might have had to his parents. Ultimately, it's about Wei Wuxian's promise to remain by Jiang Cheng's side. He lost his parents and their entire sect, then he lost his own core trying to protect Wei Wuxian (who doesn't know!) then his "martial brother/brother/best friend/whatever" not only goes missing for three months but returns with new powers and new issues he won't share with anyone. Not even Yanli.

Jiang Cheng wanted to protect Wei Wuxian but was unable to due to larger political circumstances and the fact that he didn't know about the transfer. He didn't know why Wei Wuxian was using demonic cultivation! He warns Wei Wuxian again and again that there are larger risks of his cultivation, and he turned out to be right. Trouble found Wei Wuxian even when he ran off and hid peacefully! And he never knew why.

To Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian asking to leave the sect -- regardless of whether or not it was to protect them from further scrutiny by the other sects -- is him asking to leave Jiang Cheng's side. To break their promise without any explanation. He already lost so much and all he can see here is losing another person he loves.

I want to drive that point in, really.

Any insecurity Jiang Cheng feels over Wei Wuxian's capabilities is often outweighed by his sense of responsibility towards rebuilding his sect and attempting to protect what remains of the family he had before the attack on Lotus Pier.

He didn't want to tell Wei Wuxian about why he lost his golden core for the same exact reason that Wei Wuxian kept the surgery a secret. They didn't want to hurt each other with the knowledge of such a great sacrifice. A sacrifice no one would have ever asked of either of them, no matter what was "owed." The Transfer was experimental and pretty much something no cultivator would even attempt. That's what made this choice so risky and so hard to account for.

Neither had any real way to weight the risks and consequences of this situation, and by never talking about it even during a tearful argument, we got canon events. (I've seen people talk about how Wei Wuxian's circumstances meant he had very little else to choose but survival, but this is true for Jiang Cheng too.)

And really. They both tried so hard to survive. And yet, when faced with terrible choices, they chose to protect each other. Putting their cultivation on the line to save each other's lives is not something anyone would normally do. Duty could have been a factor, but in my opinion, it wouldn't have taken Wei Wuxian that far. It wasn't even a factor in Jiang Cheng's.

And I think this is why people feel so put off by Wei Wuxian claiming it was done out of duty to the Yunmeng Jiang family. But it doesn't start with him. Their entire confrontation starts out with Jiang Cheng questioning what the sect meant to Wei Wuxian, if everything they gave him (everything they were to him) was worth nothing. This is almost entirely a projection of what Jiang Cheng asks when he cries. What he really feels is hidden in questions about martial duty.

"Why did you not tell me?"

For all his words, it was less about their sect and so much more about Jiang Cheng feeling like he was worth nothing to Wei Wuxian.

We know this. But Wei Wuxian doesn't.

I didn't notice it immediately, but Wei Wuxian's whole thing is deflection. It's about telling small truths and laughing things off or forcing himself to forget entirely. By the end of their confrontation, he does it again by asking Jiang Cheng to let it stay in the past, now that it's out there, but this does nothing to reduce the tension. It just deflects it again.

I think Wei Wuxian's response to Jiang Cheng's questions was to focus on what he thought was most important. Duty, debt to the Yunmeng Jiang. It was a deflection from what was really wrong. He didn't want to address his own complicated feeling, much less try to untangle whether Jiang Cheng hates him or loves him, so he doesn't.

Whatever broke between them wasn't about duty of any kind. It was about sacrifice, and the pain of carrying its burden alone. It was about loving someone enough to do something so drastic and never being able to say it.

Jiang Cheng hearing that the transfer was out of duty hurts him deeply, because he doesn't know that Wei Wuxian loves him. But Wei Wuxian doesn't know that's what Jiang Cheng is looking for. He hears the first part of their confrontation and responds to that.

Not, "Why did you never tell me?" But 'Did the Yunmeng Jiang mean nothing to you?'

Those are two different questions.

Wei Wuxian is trying to tell Jiang Cheng that it did mean something. That Lotus Pier's destruction, the Jiang parents and Yanli's deaths mattered to him. He's trying to release Jiang Cheng's burden without realizing that, by saying it had nothing to do with him, he's saying that Jiang Cheng didn't matter enough.

This is not how Wei Wuxian feels, we know this. But, again, Jiang Cheng doesn't.

They're talking right past each other, and because of all their other issues, they not only don't realize it, but might never be able to truly address it. They're so used to keeping their feelings hidden from each other that they can't even see how much they, as individuals, matter to each other.

TL;DR.

Both of them love each other and couldn't say it because of their complicated. Well, everything. Instead, their misconceptions cause them both to focus on the wrong things at the wrong time. By asking about what the Yunmeng Jiang meant to Wei Wuxian, it hides what Jiang Cheng really wants to know: if it was done out of love and protectiveness as his sacrifice had been. By focusing on this deflection, Wei Wuxian hides his own feelings by placing duty to the Jiang sect in highest importance. He gives the answer that he thinks Jiang Cheng wants to hear.

So, no, I don't think Wei Wuxian wasn't telling the truth (or at least not the full truth) either.

In the end, this is not what either of them actually wanted from the confrontation and does very little to address their actual emotional issues. All it really does is open the door for something to change in the future.

#asks #mdzs #wei wuixan #jiang cheng #golden core reveal #meta #my post #mine.txt

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hannigramislife · 1 year

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You know what hurts?

Imagine being Jiang Cheng; you're 18 years old, and there was a moment, after the destruction of your sect, the Fall of Lotus Pier, the deaths of your parents, when you see your brother about to be taken away by Wen soldiers.

Imagine the things you'd think in the span of a few seconds: that if they take him, your brother dies, and you're alone in a war, left to take care of your people and your sister. If you distract them, they take you instead.

But if they take you, you'll die. You'll get tortured and killed in your own home that's bathed in the blood of your family. If you die, your brother will inherit your sect and your responsibilities. He will be the leader your father knew you could never be. You hear your mother's voice, that always said he will bring nothing but trouble, that he'll take away what's rightfully yours.

Imagine that despite everything, not caring about anything, you step outside. You get caught, tortured, your golden core crushed– a fate worse than death, because now you have become what you always thought you already were: useless.

You don't let him know. You don't let either of them know.

Now imagine that despite the deteriorating relationship with your brother, who doesn't seem to take anything seriously, who doesn't help with the sect, who makes trouble in every public appearance you have, you don't let him know. You don't throw it in his face. He must never know.

And years– so, so many dreadful years full of mourning later– you find out your brother made the same sacrifice you did. Except, he tells you that he did it out of obligation. You were a debt. You were a way to repay your father's kindness and your mother's tolerance and your sister's love to an orphan boy. You were the price the man you called brother had to pay for being allowed to live in Lotus Pier. You were his duty, nothing more.

That's what you hear in his words. That's what he means when he says to leave it all in the past. You are the past. Which maybe was fitting, as you never moved on from him. You were a weight that your brother is finally free of, so he can go live a happy life with other people he considers family.

Imagine how it feels, to think that what you did out of love, nothing more or less, but pure, unadulterated love– it destroyed your beloved's life. Everything you have built, everything you were proud of, it was at his expense. Then, your brother trampled all over your love with the cold detachment, although unknowingly.

He didn't know after all.

So, steeling whatever is left of your heart, you let him go. You finally let go, knowing your grip has never been love, to your brother, but a chain, a prison–

So you don't tell him.

You could never admit to it. You could never put him through the anguish you yourself are feeling.

He must never know.

#mdzs #mo dao su zhi #the untamed #cql p #cql #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #twin heroes of yunmeng #yunmeng siblings #yunmeng bros #golden core transfer

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nutcasewithaknife · 1 year

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I've been obsessed with Jiang Cheng since halfway through my first watch of cql, and here's why. He always keeps doing better than I expect him to.

(wow, this got long. rest is under the cut!)

He's introduced as the brother-killer, the ruthless sect leader with a reputation for being merciless. Then cut to the flashback, a Jiang Cheng who is fifteen, surrounded by his sister and brother and happy about it, occasionally doing stupid teenager things, trying so very hard to be Ideal Heir, while Wei Wuxian is the prodigy that keeps stealing his thunder effortlessly. And you go, "oh, I know this story. It's a tragedy, because these brothers loved each other once, but one's ambition will eventually breed jealousy which will fester into hate and end, tragically, in the death of the better half." It's Cain and Abel! You've seen how it ends, it's the first scene you see, of course that's where it's going!

And then you see how the three siblings help each other survive a frankly horrible and abusive household. They try to do for each other what their parents couldn't; Yanli tries to be their mother, Jiang Cheng doesn't believe the rumours about Wei Wuxian being jfm's illegitimate son or hold it against him as he very easily could've learnt to from his mother, and Wei Wuxian does his darned best to get jfm to acknowledge and love his son as he does for Wei Wuxian.

You keep waiting for the other shoe to drop!! Yunmeng burns, Jiang Cheng chokes his brother in the rain, and you think this is it, this is where it finally breaks. But he sticks with his brother and sister, he makes some stupid decisions in his grief and pays dearly for it. When he wakes up without a core he is broken, his 'ambition' is destroyed, and you remember him choke his brother and think this is it, and then... it isn't. Other than the one grieving rant in the rain, he never blames his brother for their loss, never demands that he fix it all. When Wei Wuxian does come with a solution, Jiang Cheng doesn't act like it's something he was owed. It's his brother, his brilliant genius brother, who miraculously fixed this impossible thing! He's the most Jiang of them all, of course he achieved the impossible!

And then he's the young sect leader in a bloody war, needing to win, needing to prove his worth and his sect's worth at every turn. This is where he becomes the ruthless, powerful man we meet in the first few episodes! Only.... he finds Wen Qing, who is the enemy in the eyes of the Jianghu, and offers to protect her (only her because he knows his limits, he can't protect all her people and his own, and his duty to his sect is first). He goes looking for his brother, months on end, haggard to the bone.

Then Wei Wuxian shows up wielding a power that's the worst taboo in their world, a power frighteningly similar to the power-drunk villain that they war is being waged against! He's doing unspeakable things, terrible torture in the name of revenge! Ah, so this is what it finally is! The moment they finally fall out for good, where Jiang Cheng cannot abide to tarnish his sect's reputation with Wei Wuxian's, and their love turns to hate.

But.... Jiang Cheng sees what he's done, and the first thing he does is to hug him tight. He asks about Wei Wuxian not carrying his sword, but even after the diplomatic nightmare of a war council, Jiang Cheng is just worrying. It's the most open, the most honest we've seen him so far, and he is concerned for his brother. He shuts it down when Jin Zixun tries to pick a fight. He takes responsibility for the person everyone's wary of, because that's his brother and he trusts him! He's hiding things, yes, but one day he will be ready to talk and Jiang Cheng will wait till then.

Then the war's won (by Wei Wuxian, of course!) and he has a sect to rebuild. And his brother is not at his side. First he's slacking off and drinking around town, then he runs away with the Wens to the Burial Mounds. It's terrible for the sect's and Jiang Cheng's own precarious position in Jianghu. Surely, this is the last thread of Jiang Cheng's love for his brother, the beginning of the man we were introduced to? But it's fucking not! Yes, he's frustrated. Yes, he's mad. And yet, he doesn't force his sister into a diplomatically advantageous marriage (which I strongly believe is the bare minimum of being a decent human being, but is something that wouldn't have been a questionable or dishonourable thing for him to do in the culture and world this story is set in) because she is not a pawn and he respects her choice above the politics! He tries to defend his First Disciple, his brother, and is overshadowed by much more powerful leaders who are bigoted and/or afraid of his power. And when it all goes to shit, they fight! This is the end of it, surely? But no! It's all fake! They fight, make up a lie about how the Yunmeng Jiang has supressed Wei Wuxian and his Wens in the Burial Mounds so they can live without being under attack for however long, and then have shady meetups to discuss their nephew's name!!

In the carnage of Nightless City, their sister dies at his hands, and the horrible realisation dawns that this is what pushes them over the brink, literally. And then!! AND THEN!!!!! EVEN THEN IT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR HIM TO KILL HIS BROTHER!!! The first scene was a lie, WEI WUXIAN HAD TO THROW HIMSELF OFF!!!!!! And when he's finally back, what does Jiang Cheng do? Kill him? ban him from ever returning to their home? No! He wants to drag him back home and make him apologise, explain himself!!

A lot of this is very focused on the brothers, but even outside of that, Jiang Cheng keeps subverting the expectations that the story builds for him right in the beginning. For all the talks of 'disciplining' his nephew (which could unquestionably entail some form of corporal punishment, as we see in other parts of the story) and the childhood Jiang Cheng himself had, the idea of his Jiujiu raising his hand against him is unthinkable to the point of incredulity for Jin Ling. When Jin Ling has his breakdown over Suihua on the Lotus Pier docks, I was full bracing myself for Jiang Cheng to yell at him for crying in public without any shame or dignity, but what does he do? Calls his nephew to his side and demands to know who made him cry, so he can fucking wreck them for daring to do that! He has a mere day to process the Golden Core reveal, and after all the yelling, he actually apologises to his brother!!

Then, in the mother of all sucker-punch moments, we find out that the one grief-riddled, frustrating moment of apparent stupidity whose domino effect this entire thing has been, was in fact Jiang Cheng willingly sacrificing himself, sect be damned, to save his brother and sister. And like!! How do you have such a character who simultaneously is and is not what he seems to be!!!

I (and a lot of the audience) immediately played into the simple brotherhood-destroyed-by-jealousy plot that it seems to be at first, but that's the intention! The entire story keeps showing how misleading, how vicious rumours can be and how horribly it can affect who someone is in the eyes of society. We see this happen in the story, of course, but the narrative also relies on the audience to make the same mistake, to take the tropes that seem obviously implied at the start, and then unravels the true complexity of the story as it moves forward. We got played by the narrative and it was so worth it!! Wei Wuxian is the prime example, of course, but cql (and mdzs from what I gather, though I haven't read the books) does it with such nuance and brilliance for Jiang Cheng, how do you not immediately lose your entire mind about it for the rest of forever!!!!!

#this wasn't supposed to be so long but the brainworms commanded it #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #wei wuxian #wei ying #Jin Ling #jiang yanli #wen qing #meta #cql #the untamed #yunmeng brothers #yunmeng siblings #jin ling and jiujiu

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thepurplewombat · 8 months

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The Sin List

okay, so as we all know, it is vitally important that any character we stan must be morally pure and a good example to emulate in real life.

So I have decided to create a list of MDZS characters and their sins, which everyone can easily refer to in order to make sure that they are not following some horrible criminal or murderer!

This was a lot of work, but I'm very proud of it. Just doing my bit to ensure the moral purity of the fandom!

Wei Wuxian - Necromancy, disrespecting his elders, disrespecting the dead, killed Jin Zixuan, punched Jin Zixuan in the face one time, cannibalism, mind control, deviant sexual fantasies, trespassing, oath-breaking, urged Wen Qing to perform untested and possibly fatal operation on Jiang Cheng without his consent.

Lan Wangji - Defied his elders, broke the Lan Clan rules, sexually assaulted Wei Wuxian, deviant sexual fantasies, GBH (JGY)

Jin Guangyao - betrayed and killed Wen Ruohan, betrayed and killed Jin Guangshan, murder (NMJ), murdered assorted people, disrespecting the dead, assorted Spy Things for Wen Ruohan.

Nie Mingjue - Killed a lot of people during the war, verbally abused Nie Huaisang, burned Nie Huaisang's stuff, attempted murder (JGY), attempted murder (JGY), attempted murder (JGY), murder (JGY), killed the Mo family (well, his arm did anyway). In favor of the genocide of the Wen Remnants

Jin Guanshan: Sexual assault, rape, murder, ordering human experimentation with resentful energy to be done by his sect, played both sides during the war, didn't take responsibility for his children, ultimately responsible for getting WWX killed because he wanted the YTT so bad

Wen Ruohan: Attempted world domination, murder etc

Lan Qiren: has a stick up his ass

Su Minshan: Refused to die for the Lan, supported JGY in his efforts to prevent undead Da-ge from killing him. Also cursed Jin Zixun.

Sect Leader Yao: Weathervane politician

Jiang Wanyin: strangled Wei Wuxian that one time, keeps trying to talk to him but is way too tsundere about it, killed many during the war, didn't immediately forgive WWX for getting JYL killed, threatens to break Jin Ling's legs weekly.

Jin Ling: rude. rude rude rude. Also stabbed WWx one time

Lan Jingyi: not respecting his elders, rude rude rude. Also loud

JFM: shit dad, throw him in a volcano

Madame Yu: Angry mom, beat Wei Wuxian for things that weren't his fault, yelled at JC a lot, didn't appreciate JYL, very mean.

Lan Xichen: killed people during the war. Randomly starts doing flute solos in conversation

Meng Shi: was a prostitute. Told Meng Yao his dad was amazing and he should totally look him up later.

Madam Jin: awful person, she can go into the volcano with JFM. physical and verbal abuse (JGY)

Nie Huaisang: killed cats, nearly killed the juniors, let his sect fall into ruin, traded obscene materials, disrespecting his sect's traditions, lied to Lan Xichen to make him kill JGY

Wen Qing: went along with WRH's plans, performed surgery on JC without his consent

Wen Ning: Was part of the burning of LP

Mo Xuanyu: Summoned Satan to murder his relatives, harassed his brother

Jin Zixun: asshole, rude, broke the Geneva Convention on the ethical treatment of prisoners several times. Useless person

FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY AND YOUR MORALS YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO STAN THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERS

Jiang Yanli

Qin Su

Lan Shizui

#Wombat rambles #wombat's danmei hours #Jin Guangyao #meng yao #Lan Xichen #LXC #My favourite son-in-law #best boy lan Xichen #not a himbo #mzds #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #wei wuxian #lan wangji #nie huaisang #nie Mingjue #NONE OF YOU ARE FREE OF SIN

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lansplaining · 6 months

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this may be shit-stirring but please elaborate on the jc preferred ship is based on the "best" aspect of his character post 👀👀👀

ahaha yes it might be, which is why I've been dawdling trying to find the right wording, but oh well

sangcheng = jiang cheng is at his best/happiest/truest self when he's a slightly goofy tsundere palling around with the lads. i see a lot of people saying that they like the idea of two broken men finding each other after canon, but i so rarely see that as actual sangcheng content-- and even then, surely the concept is it's about healing through some kind of return to their teenage friendships/selves?

xicheng = kind of oddly the same? his anger is cathartic, not damaging. he just needs a lan of his own to match wei wuxian. brother sets restored, etc.

chengqing = duty, loyalty, doomedness. people who feel the tragedy of never getting to be happy is what makes jiang cheng interesting, and therefore his most honorable traits are his best ones because they are utterly useless to him when trying to be happy.

chengyao = bitch queen jiujiu is the best jiang cheng. a circumstantial relationship that could never last, and whose significance everyone involved would deny forever. simultaneously an appreciation of jiang cheng's talent as a sect leader but also feeling like he simply is a guy who will die alone.

chengxuan = dickhead4dickhead. heir4heir. the "what if someone chose jiang cheng over his siblings for once" of sangcheng meets the "i am corseted by responsibility" of chengqing only this time the doom comes from outside.

chengxian = bitch you're never getting away from this guy

#ask answered #i feel like there's probably a ship i'm missing but these are the big ones i feel

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robininthelabyrinth · 11 months

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Wen Chao kills Wei Wuxian at the Wen Indoctrination camp to intimidate the heirs of the clans.

💢

ao3

Untamed

“You know they all think you’re dead,” Meng Yao said. He’d come to check on the status of the latest nightmare torture machine that Wen Ruohan had ordered to be made.

“I know,” Wei Wuxian said, his lips pressed tightly together. He was fiddling with the machine, which really only needed a few minor adjustments to do what Wen Ruohan wanted it to, adjustments that he’d managed to drag on for nearly a month and a half without making, and both he and Meng Yao knew it, and knew that the other one knew that they knew. The fact that Meng Yao hadn’t told anyone was the only reason Wei Wuxian was bothering to have this conversation with him now. “That was made painfully clear early on, thanks.”

Normally his viciously bitter tone was enough to convince people to stop asking.

Meng Yao wasn’t exactly what one would call normal, though.

“How’d he manage it?” Meng Yao asked, and Wei Wuxian looked up at him with a glare. “Wen Chao. He’s too stupid to actually manage to fake someone’s death properly – he’s the sort of person who’d mess up breathing if it didn’t happen naturally. How’d he manage to do it with you without actually killing you in the process?”

Wei Wuxian’s smile was ghastly.

“Stupid question,” he said. “You should know better than to make such a mistake.”

“Mistake? What mistake?”

“The mistake you made,” Wei Wuxian said gently, “was assuming he didn’t kill me.”

“I saw Wei Ying.”

If it had been anyone else, Jiang Cheng would have screamed at them. He would have pulled his sword and tried to stab them, and, lacking that, he would have gone at them with his bare hands, to try to punch them or strangle them until they stopped, one way or another.

But this wasn't anybody, it was Lan Wangji.

Other people had commented, usually sourly, that Jiang Cheng had grown closer to Lan Wangji during the war. They were usually trying to imply that he'd sought to replace one shixiong with another, and from another sect to boot, more than likely trying to capitalize on Jiang Fengmian’s sorrow and anger upon hearing Jiang Cheng's dull report of Wei Wuxian’s death at the hands of Wen Chao, perhaps the only thing that could have moved that otherwise peaceable and easy-going man to militancy. The implication was as wrong as it was filthy, of course - no one could replace Wei Wuxian, not in a million years - but there was some truth to the fact that Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji were better friends now than they had ever been before.

In fact, Jiang Cheng would go so far as to say that there was no one on earth who knew Lan Wangji better than him, possibly even above his own brother and uncle. After all, they had not been the ones that had been there when Lan Wangji had seen – when he had witnessed – when they had both witnessed…

Jiang Cheng thought sometimes that it had been the depth of Lan Wangji’s wild and terrible grief that had allowed him to survive Wei Wuxian’s death. That Jiang Cheng would have let it break him, shatter his mind along with his heart, only that Lan Wangji was a little quicker than he down that path, and Jiang Cheng was a man born overly responsible; he couldn't shatter as long as there was someone who needed him to stay strong. And Lan Wangji, who had already seen his home burn, his brother vanished, his father killed, his uncle tortured, and now his secret beloved murdered right before his eyes...he'd needed Jiang Cheng. He'd needed the only other person, excepting only Jiang Yanli, that felt the same thing he felt, the only other one who truly and unreservedly loved Wei Wuxian.

Even though Lan Wangji had never confessed his feelings, never said anything until the moment he'd unburdened his heart too late, Jiang Cheng the only one listening or able to listen, he had still suffered, and in so suffering, he gave Jiang Cheng the same feeling back - the knowledge that there was someone else out there that understood the enormity of what they'd lost in a way that no one, excepting again only the distant Jiang Yanli, would or could.

Because it was Lan Wangji, Jiang Cheng didn't attack.

Physically, anyway.

"Have you started having delusions?" he demanded irritably. "If so, stop it: we have a war to fight, so there's no time. You want to lose your mind, do it after we're done."

"I saw him," Lan Wangji insisted.

"You saw him die, too," Jiang Cheng snapped, voice tight. "Remember that? You and me, we were both there. We saw what Wen Chao did to him. We saw what he did with the corpse, after. There's no way he's still alive."

"I know."

"Good, I'm glad that you know! Then what's this nonsense about?"

"I saw Wei Ying," Lan Wangji said. "I saw him alive and whole, though not the same as he once was. I cannot explain it, but I would not have mistaken him."

That was true. Anyone else, maybe. But not Lan Wangji, who had loved him.

"How can it be?"

Silence.

Jiang Cheng pursed his lips. It was probably just a delusion, or maybe some sort of newfangled trap that personalized itself to each person. Something like Wen Chao’s stupid owl with its confusing fog, only more pointed. Of course, if it was that, then it was a threat that needed to be stopped, needed to be hunted down and eliminated by the two best hunters the Sunshot Campaign had…

That was the only reason he was thinking of agreeing. The only reason.

It definitely wasn't because his heart had seized up, filled with impossible hope.

Attempt the impossible.

"I'll get permission for us to track the rumor down," Jiang Cheng said gruffly, and Lan Wangji nodded, his shoulders relaxing a little in silent gratitude. "We leave tomorrow."

“No, Meng Yao’s right. I’m pretty sure that rock is the only thing keeping me here,” Wei Wuxian said. “Destroy it.”

Nie Mingjue glanced back and forth from his traitorous former deputy to the man whose supposed death (real death, he supposed) had been the initiating factor to kick off the Sunshot Campaign in a way even the burning of the Cloud Recesses hadn’t been. Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji had recently grown obsessed with Wei Wuxian, meaning more than the usual amount – they swore up and down that they’d seen him, or possibly his ghost, or something like that – and while he hadn’t exactly disbelieved them, since who even knew these days, he hadn’t actually expected to meet the man in the living flesh.

Possibly non-living flesh.

Yin Metal possessed flesh?

“You can’t destroy it,” Meng Yao argued, and even though he was speaking to Nie Mingjue he was glaring indignantly at Wei Wuxian. He looked actually passionate, for once, and not in the way he had before, when Nie Mingjue had thought he was passionate about things like saving lives and the welfare of the common people; this was less beautiful, but more real. He was grimacing, his face twisted and ugly in a way he’d never before permitted it to be. “If you do, he will die, and die permanently!”

“That’s what people generally do, I think you’ll find,” Wei Wuxian said with a laugh that was mostly fake. “Meng Yao, I don’t know how many times I need to remind you: I’m already dead. That Wen Ruohan resurrected me through some sort of bizarre sorcery based on some stupid rock he found, probably out of morbid curiosity as to what he could do with it, doesn’t mean that I’m meant to be here.”

“But –”

“Meng Yao, you know better than most how awful he is, how terrible it would be if someone as insane as that actually achieved all that he wished to achieve! Wen Ruohan can’t be allowed to succeed in any of his aims. We have to destroy the Yin Metal. That I die is of no matter –”

“Wen Ruohan is a master of arrays,” Nie Mingjue interrupted, and they both looked at him. “His power is not based on a rock, no matter how unorthodox or interesting. Defeating him and destroying the rock – er, the Yin Metal – are unrelated, and the latter is certainly not a prerequisite to the former.”

Wei Wuxian looked taken aback. “What?”

“You’re confusing correlation with causation,” Nie Mingjue said, and shrugged. “That he started playing around with this…rock, this Yin Metal, whatever it is, doesn’t mean that it’s responsible for why he is the way he is, or even why he’s as powerful as he is. He would come to the Unclean Realm quite often when I was a child, and he was pretty different back then…anyway, my point is, can we stop talking about the rock and focus on killing him instead?”

“Looks like your horrible self-sacrifice is just going to have to wait,” Meng Yao told Wei Wuxian, looking especially smug in the face of Wei Wuxian’s gaping disbelief. “Too bad.”

Nie Mingjue hated that he liked Meng Yao better this way.

“Killing now, debate later,” he said, deciding to think about that at another time. “Understood?”

Not that they would have time to debate later, if he played his cards right. As soon as they found out about it, Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji were going to make absolutely sure that whatever the rock was that was keeping Wei Wuxian alive – and despite what he said, Nie Mingjue thought he was in fact still alive, if only by the barest thread – was explored in full, no matter what.

None of them were going to let him go that easily.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #jin guangyao #jiang cheng #lan wangi #nie mingjue #my fic #my fics #just assume the yin metal was actually kept as a secret by the Lan sect #short

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whumpbby · 7 months

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Idk if there's a right way to say this but Jiang Cheng's biggest crime in and out canon is being not that pleasant to be around and i rlly wish people would acknowledge that instead of trying to paint him as The Worst in order to justify their weirdly intense hatred towards him

I'm going to ramble,sorry, that how I put thoughts in order:)

I think that's the perfect way to say it actually. And 100% fact imho. His biggest flaw is that he has no patience with other people's shit and no filter on how little patience he has. He lets people know he's unhappy with them. All his care and dedication is in his actions.

The way he cares about Wei Wuxian and then Jin Ling - even his scolding is an expression of care, always concerned about the way their behaviour can bring harm to them or to their sects. The way he sacrificed his life for Wei Wuxian without a moment's doubt and neve mentioned it. The way he was fighting a war and rebuilding the sect at the same time. The way his sect became absolutely notfuckwithable. The way he kept throwing himself in the way of danger for his loved ones in the Temple.

This is not some villain who only cares about himself - the way he's being painted by the antis.

There was this post somewhere saying that the biggest flaw in a fictional character is being boring - they can be a war criminal, as long as they're not boring.

I think for some people who are looking for pure escapism and feel-good simplicity (and nothing wrong with that, everyone does that) the "boring" gets replaced with "ugly". The depiction of trauma survivors that didn't "go through all that and ended up kinder". That didn't get over the tragedy in their lives to an appropriate standard. That are functional, but not happy. That bring back the bad stuff that happened because it still influences their lives and behaviours and reactions.

They want all the tragic trauma of the past, but without long-lasting consequences that aren't leading directly to cock-healing or fawning.

Like, if you think about it, no one went through the war in that book and came out "better". Absolutely no one. Lan Zhan drowned himself in guilt and directed all his anger towards Jiang Cheng. Wei Wuxian didn't stop running for even a moment and he became an intensely careless, emotionally dishonest person. Lan Xichen settled into not really doing much, coasting on his sects' position and JGY's help. Nie Mingjue became a bona-fide warlord who basically said "fuck these people, hunt them for sport for all I care". Meng Yao learned that you can stab your problems away. Everyone around them became incredibly trigger-happy for a long while.

And yet JC is the only one singled out as the Evil Walking The Land, because his trauma response isn't pretty and stoic and is specifically, understandably, targeting the Innocent Cinnamon Roll Protagonist and isn't fixed by the end of the book. He could have saved the world, but as long as he's not polite while he's at it then fuck him.

This is, like, primary school level morality were facing here xD

I cannot tell you how surprised I was when entering the world of The Untamed - prepared by Tumblr to see jC as this demon of a man and instead found this guy who, by all accounts, is in the right 99% of the time. Then I read the book and was staggered by the final reveal. And the absolute bullshit I was fed by people that wanted to sour me on the character before I could make my own mind.

Not even gonna get into how these people treat Wen Ning - whose whole existence is a horrific chain of horrific events ending in his absolutely awful existence of an actual slave... But he's such a cute puppy, eh?

Tldr: people who keep making excuses for hating JC do it to somehow justify the fact they can only accept Trauma Light in their fiction.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng

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wutheringskies · 9 months

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Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian aren't the same.

Jin Guangyao is one of the best written characters I've come across. A villian that doesnt look like one, doesnt act like one, is likeable, has strong motivations and a defined personality and extremely fun to read fanfics about. But what I dislike is the role that fanon gives him; specially his role in the story with allusions to Wei Wuxian, casting Jin Guangyao as someone similar to Wei Ying. The "poor children turned to forced villains" trope. This meta is about WHY that's NOT true.

The humiliation of his mother didn't give him the right to burn down an entire brothel. (personally, I found it satisfying but). The desire of acceptance from his father was a motivation for his crimes, not a factor that validates those crimes. Often, Jin Guangyao is treated as the counter part of Wei Wuxian. They both share only three similarities, however:

1. Both came from low backgrounds and struggled a lot in their childhoods. Meng Yao had food, but witnessed constant humiliation. Wei Ying had nothing, and then got tangled into the fucked up dynamics of the Jiangs.

2. Both were found to be much different than what people believed them to be. Wei Wuxian was supposed to be evil, hateful, a murderer who kills just to satisfy his blood thirst and need for power, a monster. Jin Guangyao was supposed to be the guy who worked hard and rose to the top, humble, kind, honest and pure of heart.

3. Both had their reputations destroyed from targeted rumor mill.

That is all.

Other than that, Jin Guangyao is NOT at all similar to Wei Wuxian by any measure. He had to do bad things because he desired power, and to gain, power in a corrupt world, you need to be even more corrupted. He killed all those who looked down upon him (not bodily harm him). He clenched his teeth and killed everyone who protested against him or questioned him. He silenced everybody before they could silence him. He isn't SOLELY responsible but he only played the cards that would bring HIM benefit, not the cards that were righteous, or good, or kind.

Wei Wuxian never desired power, was willing to give up a limb for the safety of his sect. When has he ever raised his sword or his flute if not in self defense? When has he ever attacked first and when has he ever killed an innocent? The only innocent he's most directly responsible for is Jin Zixuan and that was too, in an ambush, where he was asked to back down.

Not just that, everyone is always talking about the Nightless City massacre but never about the Burial Mounds Seige 2.0 where all of the cultivators WOULD have DIED, if not for Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian.

If your reasoning behind justifying Jin Guangyao's actions and murders is the "intention" then you come across as hypocritical if you condemn Wei Wuxian for the Nightless City massacre, ignoring everything that led to it. His prowess in cultivation, his natural genius, and his terrifying powers that he built himself even after losing a core are not crimes that he should be punished for, but he was. Because he's supposed to be just the son of a servant. How dare he be so powerful? So many attempts on his life were made and he survived them all. So many attempts to summon his soul, and they didn't work.

Is surviving a crime? For the Jiang Cheng stans who always thrust the survivor narrative onto JC, this is a question for them. Was Wei Wuxian wrong to have survived incidents in which he was being attacked? Should he have died for doing absolutely nothing wrong, other than having a different voice? For standing against a structure that always prioritizes one being above all, being the ultimate voice that cannot be questioned?

Here I'm going to quote some parts from the ExR translation of Villanous Friends:

He Su, “What was the irresistible trend? What was stirring up trouble? Jin GuangShan wanted to establish the position of chief cultivator only to imitate the QishanWen Sect in being the only ones at the top. Do you think all the world is ignorant? You frame me like this only because I spoke the truth!”

When you really succeed, all of the world of cultivation would see the true face of the LanlingJin Sect. Do you think killing me alone would put you eternally at ease? How wrong you are! We, the TingshanHe Sect, teem with talent. From now on, we’ll unite and never surrender to you Wen-dogs of another skin!”

Sounds familiar?

After a few laughs, he continued, “Sect Leader Jin, let me ask you something else. Do you think that, because the QishanWen Sect is gone, the LanlingJin Sect has all right to replace it?”

Wei WuXian added, “Everything has to be given to you? Everyone has to listen to you? Looking at how the LanlingJin Sect does things, I almost thought that it was the QishanWen Sect’s empire all over again.”

Wei WuXian, “Did I say something wrong? Forcing living people to be bait and beating them up whenever they refused to obey—is this any different from what the QishanWen Sect does?”

These were voices that questioned the greater powers. This is what happened to these voices:

Jin Guangyao: That’s not the way to go about things, is it? The TingshanHe Sect rebelled and schemed to assassinate Sect Leader Jin with all its forces before it was caught red-handed. How could that be called without a reason?”

Flashback to Wen Chao, asking if the disciples in the Xuanwu Cave were rebelling when they protected Mianmian who was asked to be the live bait of a monster.

Also, flashback to Wei Wuxian standing up for the Wens and being called a rebel when he stood up for the Wens who were being used as live baits to strengthen the Jin.

The ones over there cried, “Brother! He’s lying! We didn’t, we didn’t!”

Flashback to Wen Ning "losing control" at Koi Tower probably due to Xue Yang's invention. But the point to be taken away is that Sect Leader He Su's younger disciples, who are harmless, are framed as murderers. A position similar to what Wei Wuxian was put into.

He Su, “Utterly nonsense! Open your eyes and fucking look! There are nine-year-old children here! Old men who can’t even walk! How could they rebel against anything?! Why would they assassinate your dad out of nowhere?!”

Funny how the evils of society comprised of old grandmas, uncles, a toddler, a doctor, a fierce corpse, and a cultivator with no status, no core, no money, no voice living in a cave with a pool of blood, digging the Burial soil to grow some potatoes.

And not those who were sitting on their thrones, reveling in riches and ordering people around.

Jin GuangYao, “Because you made a mistake and committed murder, Young Master He Su, while they refused to accept Koi Tower’s conviction of you, of course.”

"A mistake" reminds me of the incident at qionggi path. Even if Jin Zixuan hadn't died that day, they would've kept cornering Wei Wuxian until he'd have no other choice but to go on the offensive (which is what he did.)

Turns out even being sooo powerful that he could shake mountains, he eventually died.

Yet, at such a place, nobody would listen to his protests. Sitting before him were two villains who already treated him as though he were dead. What they enjoyed was precisely his dying struggle. Smiling, Jin GuangYao leaned back, waving his hand, “Hush him up, hush him up.”

"You shut them in live?"

Xue Yang turned around, curling his lips, “Wei WuXian never used live humans, but I wanna try.”

So, Xue Yang is an actual demonic cultivator who's protected by the Jins, murdered 2 entire clans and this is the third one and godness knows how many more. Absolutely very few people give actual fucks about what cultivation methods to employ. The one who really cared was perhaps, Lan Wangji.

Jin Guangyao as you can see isn't being "forced" to kill people because he's of lower birth and nobody accepts him :(

He's killing people to silence those who speak against his and his father's (and they both are one and the same entity. he's acting on his father's orders which he could've disobeyed and run away but he would lose his sect reputation and standing.)

Why does his reputation and standing mean more than the lives of all these 70 people ?

Were they trying to kill him? No.

Did they attack him first to the point he would lose his life? No.

Would they have thrown him into a whore house? No.

Let us please not compare Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao.

MXTX wants us to know what's said and told may not be right. Wei Wuxian isn't fond of the techniques that are used to confirm Jin Guangyao's demise. He's critical of how nobody else is concerned. He's unsure of what NHS's motivations are - does he now want complete power? or did his plan only extend up to his revenge? He's critical of how only yesterday people were all over this guy and today they hate him. Critical of how society works on what is favourable and not what is true.

But he's not SUPPORTIVE of Jin Guangyao. He's sympathetic to people turning onto you, but not empathetic towards Jin Guangyao. He believes Jin Guangyao to be a cruel man.

Those are two different things.

Nobody knows better than Wei Wuxian how it feels to be set up at every step:

1. Firstly he was used as a punching bag for Madam Yu and an emotional one for JC throughout his childhood

2. The Wens completely played him up, setting him as the cause of LP's fall.

3. Then, he was played by the Jins and the cultivation world until his death by validating JC's jealousy against him, by villianizing him and estranging him, by setting up the ambush, by sending JZX, by making false promises, by not checking for validity, by controlling Wen Ning, by setting up the seige parade, by getting JYL there, and finally the seige. (even after his death disrespecting his all)

4. He was brought back to the world on the revenge plans of NHS and tossed like a tennis ball from the plans of NHS and JGY. Yi City arc? children would've died -> NHS. Burial Mound seige 2.0? everyone would've died -> JGY. if LWJ wasn't with him at every step of the way, Wei Ying would've once again been in such a spot. Without any status or authority he would've gotten no help, no aid, and been villianized once more. He would've been stabbed and captured with nobody to save him. He would've made himself the bait without anybody to fight the monsters off.

Each of us have individual capacities and also, each of us have the one thing we cannot let happen:

1. Wei Ying can't let injustice prevail and sit by the side doing nothing

2. Jin Guangyao can't take in being stripped of power and being a lowlife again.

Those are two very different things. JGY made every decision he could to escape his grand fear, which was personal. I don't condemn his motivations personally cause I find them hot. Similar to how I find his character hot. Yet, he's not the hero on the opposite spectrum. He's not the lowlife who was killed because people can't handle people from lower birth statuses being on the top chairs for making decisions - but that is also true - but is not the reason behind his tragedy. Not the sole reason and also not the most important reason.

The most important reason is as it is said: he believes himself to be different and values his life over others, similar to Xue Yang. Their personalities vary greatly, yet his "true" friends were Xue Yang and Su She. (He showed glimpses of the truth and of his reality to LXC. So, he's hiding the truth and LXC doesn't wish to dig deeper anyways thus not a true friendship.) One wished to take revenge in extremely unfair shares, a clan for a finger. A clan for a son. The entire cultivation world could die but he couldn't be badmouthed or put on trial or killed. The other - Su She, wished to be recognized by those who he equally hated, despised and considered arrogant and also was jealous and envious of. So, these two traits - great desire for revenge onto everyone who's ever said anything mean about him, and the desire for power. You may argue how this developed from his childhood trauma but you can't argue that this justifies his cold blooded crimes because it doesn't. Another thing I'd like to add is that, his friendship with Lan Xichen also shows his personality; not wanting to take the messy, big path (such as showing up to your own death planning party, or planning a death party) and his relatively calm nature. Yet just like the friendship it is fragmented and fake; a composure that is stuck onto the cold, and hot brimming desire for power.

There was one character who had to kill a large number of people or would have no other option left and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who was hated by society solely because of his background and his desire to protect people and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who had to give up everything for what he believed in and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who ended up being the indirect reason for the passing of loved siblings due to the unjust society.

and it wasn't Jin Guangyao.

(but there were two characters who had confirmed sex before marriage. one of them was Jin Guangyao)

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #jin guangyao #xue yang slaughtered 2 clans and was protected by the jins #xue yang #cultivation world bullshit #jin zixuan #wei ying #burial mounds #wen remnants #my meta #my thoughts #my essays

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symphonyofsilence · 7 months

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Among the heirs of the great sects, Jiang Cheng is the most balanced one. LWJ is too rigid (and frankly a very unfortunate diplomat), NHS only fucks around, JZX is...well,...JZX. Jiang Cheng, on the other hand, is responsible, serious when it comes to his sect and duties, very competent, good with politics (better than both his parents), has a strategic mind, is respectful to the people of other sects, and is a good representative for his sect, but at the same time when he's not being "a representative for his sect" and is among friends and family, he smuggles drinks to CR and gets drunk with NHS & WWX, he sneaks out of CR and goes to the nearby restaurant, he keeps bantering with WWX while at the same time being an accomplice in all his shenanigans and getting in trouble with him, he runs away from his mother along with his shixiong and their shidi into a boat and starts fighting with WWX in the waters where everyone cheers them on and they steal lotus seeds from a poor farmer.

He was really being a teenage boy before the war took that away from him. And even then this bad boy was totally okay with WWX's dark magic stuff and the black clouds and crows and rotten resentful corpses that followed WWX around.

#mdzs #I'd say if you think JC is uptight you've been gaslit by WWX but even WWX didn't think JC was uptight we get all the aforementioned info #From WWX #So just where did the assumption that JC is uptight come from #Bc as a sect leader in the middle of a war and a traumatised teenager who's lost all his family #being serious about the war and avenging the dead family and navigating trauma is definitely not being uptight #cql #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #nie huaisang #jiang wanyin #my two cents

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thatswhatsushesaid · 1 year

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i think it is extremely weird that parts of this fandom have just definitively decided that the principle antagonist is an irredeemably evil monster because he has his minion burn down a brothel (where said antagonist was born and abused and watched his mother suffer and die) with people still inside it, then hires a bunch of sex workers to rape his rapist dad (who raped so many women that he lost track of who his victims were, and ended up approving of a marriage between said antagonist and his own half-sister as a result) to death

when the protagonist’s chosen means of killing the people who razed the only home he’s ever known and murdered his foster parents involves 1) choking a woman to death by forcing a table leg down her throat, 2) forcing that dead woman to bite off a man’s genitals, and 3) forcing that man to eat his own legs. this plus the protagonist’s multiple day-long murder-torture bender where he kills and tortures a bunch of other wen sect disciples in front of each other, and owns doing this because it was fun and would have been too boring to kill then quickly. like jiang cheng and lan wangji find wwx by following the trail of bodies he leaves in his wake ok, that’s pretty awful

if wei wuxian can do these things and and still be considered good, then that only makes it harder for me to understand why jin guangyao is denied goodness

fun fact: when i describe both of these characters to people who are totally canon-blind and know nothing about mdzs, cql, or any of the other adaptations, the initial response from most people isn’t “hmmm but what was the protagonist’s interiority while he was making that woman’s corpse eat that man’s junk? was he very sad about it? that will surely tell me whether his corpse desecration and autocannibalism is morally defensible or not.” most of the time what they say is “ray what the fuck are you reading, both of those guys sound like evil people, i don’t care what their motivations are! also get help”

it just seems weird!! that certain corners of this fandom have decided that goodness is not only a quality that wwx intrinsically possesses (something i don’t necessarily disagree with fwiw), but that he gets to be defined by this goodness above all else. wwx gets situated at the centre of all subsequent discourse as the moral lighthouse of the whole novel—even though he has done objectively heinous shit entirely to satisfy his own desire for vengeance. doing all of those things does not detract from his fundamental goodness, in their estimation. or if it does, it doesn’t detract enough to significantly impact his role for them as the goodness barometer in the novel.

and that’s fine with me actually! if this is where the bar for what it means to be good in this novel is set, then it should logically follow that jin guangyao’s heinous actions can similarly be ‘offset’ by paying the appropriate ‘goodness tax’ through his other canon actions (e.g., loving and remaining filial to his mother, saving and protecting lan xichen, saving nie mingjue, funding the rebuilding of the cloud recesses, caring for his orphaned nephew, etc). he has done yuckydisgusting things, yes, but so has wwx! and as we all know, wwx is not evil! so jgy isn’t evil either!

…but this isn’t what happens in these conversations, because jgy seems to begin all fandom discourse at a goodness deficit that is depressingly reflective of the goodness deficit he experiences in the novel post-canon. (or, honestly, at the beginning of his life as meng yao.) and unlike wwx whose character gets to be defined principally by his goodness in spite of his genuinely horrendous acts of violence, jin guangyao’s whole character becomes defined by his horrendous acts of violence in spite of his goodness, even though the text demonstrates clearly that their capacity for both good and evil is evenly matched.

tl;dr it would be nice if the goodness goalposts would stop moving around so much in these discussions. maybe we should just get rid of them entirely.

#mdzs meta #salty peak sect 🧂#jin guangyao #he did crimes??? good for him 😌#i’m tired

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