#I just hate when people say everyone with OSDD is a system or whatever NO. THEYRE. NOT. BREAKS PENCIL.

[kipskiptrip]

If I see one more person refer to OSDD as a whole as a generalization or synonym of OSDD-1B I'm going to snap the wooden bars of this cage in the enclosures of my mouth and crawl my way out of Hell to Find You.

[runs-red]

𝑹𝒆𝒅𝒔 𝑷𝒊𝒏𝒏𝒆𝒅

Discourse blog for discourse stuff. Lots of reblogs aren't tagged. Also, I don't necessarily agree with every single part of the posts I rb, esp the language used in fiction discourse.

Inbox is open for civil discourse.

No DNI but:

If you think fiction discourse is just about fictional characters that are minors and fictional incest, unironically use the term "proshit", this isn't the blog for you.

If you can't see "endos" as not one entity or accept that they can be vastly different from each other and believe different things, this blog isn't for you.

Pro-fiction. This probably doesn't mean what you think it does, don't force your assumptions onto me.

Tag: reds.shipcourse

I have a lot of opinions on fiction and can't fit them all into here. In short snippet, I don't believe fiction has a to one:one impact on reality (reading can influence you, doesn't mean it's going to make you replicate it) and that sexual content isn't more likely to corrupt you than gore and violence in fiction.

I can't believe I need to say this but, no, this does not mean I support real life abuse or condone the actions of your abusers!

Pro-endogenic. Plurality exists outside of DID/OSDD and endogenic plurality needs to stop being made about DID.

Tag: reds.syscourse

I don't really have an issue with people being anti-endogenic by itself. You can believe whatever you want. I have an issue with hateful people.

I don't use the terms endogenic or traumagenic for my system but sometimes I'll refer to us as endogenic simply for convenience.

In queer discourse I mostly talk about gender stuff. LGB discourse isn't really my ball park.

Tag: reds.queercourse

Misandry (the powerful ingrained hatred against men) is not a real thing. I'm just getting that out there. If you think I sound like a men's rights activist, you probably aren't listening to what I'm actually trying to say (which is probably something about how gender roles hurt everyone).

I'm an altersex gay person. I have a hard time dunking on people's identities when they seem genuine, so I'm an inclusionist.

[aspd-culture]

ASPD + DID/OSDD culture is:

Seeing someone talk about "internal family systems" and, after doing a bunch of research, groaning. It can very easily be mistaken as "Huh. I have an internal family system, so I must be a DID/OSDD system!"

It feels like the same thing as people without trauma trying to worm their way into our spaces again. IFS and DID/OSDD are not the same thing. I've seen two people come to think they are/might be a system because of IFS now. Not only am I livid, but now my opinion of them has gone down considerably. Thanks to my black and white thinking, both of them are wrong, idiots, and causing severe harm to others.

And I can't even say anything to anyone involved. I'll immediately be labeled an asshole and told that I'm "downplaying their trauma". No, the fuck I am not! I've HAD an IFS in the past, and the two are VERY different things!

Oh gosh, do not worry you are so valid and right in this./gen I *hate* IFS-based therapy for exactly this reason. I will be the first in line to admit that I do not get how IFS works, but I do know that the professionals I have come across who work with them say *everyone* has one. If that's the case, they have nothing to do with systems AT ALL, yet I have seen people labeling themselves an "IFS System" and just?? No. With all required respect and whatever, no.

Endos are one thing bc most of them are just unaware of their trauma bc forgetting trauma is literally part of the point of many DID systems especially - hence the amnesia symptom - so I can handle why they think untraumatized systems exist as long as they realize and admit their mistake when their system is ready.

But as far as I can tell, all IFS is doing is pushing singlets to believe they are systems and some systems to believe they are singlets dealing with IFS - especially OSDD-1a systems.

On top of all of that, I have seen professionals claiming IFS therapy is a "treatment" to DID/OSDD/UDD and gross gross gross I can't. I just can't.

I am not a professional and cannot say if IFS are a real thing, fuck I'm not even versed enough in IFS to know exactly what it is (is it the whole inner child/inner teen thing???), but I DO know many providers are misunderstanding it and spreading that lack of understanding to the patients they care for, which is irresponsible as hell.

One day, I'll research IFS, but I don't want to until the nasty taste of all these bad providers is out of my mouth about it so I can research it with an open mind.

(Sorry if this is intense or aggressive. I was quite drunk when I wrote this response).

[traumasurvivorshelpingsurvivors]

Hey, for some while I believe I have some form of DID and a few days ago felt like I had kinda contact with someone? It felt different than usual, less vage "is it contact or am I talking to myself"-ish.

And I feel kinda happy. Is it weird to hope I have DID? Because that would mean I didn't make it up for years and, believing you have such a major illness and then there's nothing, that's cringe.

And I feel it would validate my trauma. I have real issues validating it, also because of my memory gaps, but also in general. Probably naiv but I think, if I would have an undeniable trauma issue (not some "you are so sensitive and got PTSD from god knows where, but is is kinda your own fault") would validate me, in my own eyes.

And last, this is super weird but true, I am very good at caring for others and suck at caring for myself. So "care for your inner child" has had some good effects on me, but I think, really caring for others, when caring for myself, would change 100% how I live my life.

Everyone is like "Nobody wants such an illness" but I have CPTSD regardless so, idk, I kinda hope I didn't make it up. There's also a significant part in me, hoping I made it up, because that would mean major changes in my life that I am not happy about.

But I don't always hate the thought of it, and I feel guilty for that.

Hi anon,

It's normal as a survivor to want to have a support network, even internally, to balance the weight of the trauma, daily life, or whatever else. The saying goes that if you feel it would be beneficial to be a system, then you are likely a system, because singlets have no need to be plural. There is a sense of family within a system and it makes sense to want that sense of community within yourself.

Please also know that it's normal to find satisfaction in getting a diagnosis. Labels do help some people by providing a sense of comfort or relief in being able to name or confirm your experiences. Getting diagnosed with DID can offer an explanation for memory gaps, identity confusion, and other dissociative experiences. However, it's important to remember that a diagnosis is not necessary for validation and healing from trauma. You and your experiences are valid regardless of whether or not you're professionally diagnosed.

I also just want to say that you don't have to have DID for your trauma to be bad enough or valid enough. I think there is a common misconception that DID must be from "severe childhood trauma" but this is not the case. We have to remember that severity is subjective, and the age window for developing the disorder isn't as strict as commonly thought because we all develop differently.

It's important to remember not to compare yourself to pwDID and feel like their trauma is more valid than yours because they have the most severe form of PTSD. While some people may find it helpful to remember that there's always someone who "has it worse", that doesn't heal anyone. There is more healing to be found in considering that all trauma is equally valid.

It's okay to question whether or not you're a system, and it's okay if it turns out you're not a system. You don't deserve to judge yourself no matter the outcome. There is a lot of shame and stigma in the DID community, but please remember that exploring yourself is a perpetual effort and it's understandable to not have all the answers. You're just trying to make sense of what's going on in your mind and there's nothing wrong with that.

Please know you're not alone. I'm questioning myself and have the same thoughts as you. My therapist believes I have OSDD but explained that a diagnosis isn't necessary because it runs the risk of pathologization and it wouldn't change the treatment plan. So do consider that diagnosis may be avoided.

If you can access or afford it, a mental health professional such as a therapist can help you navigate your experiences, thoughts, and feelings surrounding both your trauma and seeking a diagnosis. A therapist, especially one who specializes in complex trauma or dissociative disorders, can help figure out if diagnostic evaluation is the best course of action for you.

If anyone would like to make a comment or suggestion, feel free to add on. Otherwise, I hope I could help, and please let us know if you need anything.

-Bun

[faesystem]

Hi! I came across one of your posts talking about systems and disordered plurals and avoiding syscourse until ready...

And I gotta admit, literally all those words are new to me.

I ask this respectfully and in good faith because I want to understand; what exactly are you talking about?

So this is the post explaining what DID (and OSDD, which professionals in the field say the differences between the diagnositic labels are I think it was "arbitrary" and ultimately that research about DID applies to OSDD. Do not have the source on hand, I could find it if you wish.)

Plurality is a label that people use to describe their experiences of feeling like more than one person. I phrase it like this because I am firmly of the belief that there is no firm 'yes or no this is and is not plurality'. Some people disagree and say DID/OSDD is inherently plurality, and as a DID system who does not identify as plural (even though our goal is functional multiplicity) I think this idea is harmful.

People tend to agree that plural as a label is something anyone can use if they feel it fits their experiences. This means it can mean literally anything to any person. Since it is so vague and open ended, that you can just opt into it if it feels right, that you can opt out of it if it feels wrong.

For us personally, we hate the term because it is nonpathologised. "Disordered plurality" is what DID is often times viewed as and we hate that defintion. It is far, far more than just having a bunch of brain buds in a disordered way.

With that said, people with DID/OSDD are absolutely free to identify as plural in the same way everyone else is. It is about if it fits your experiences.

There is a lot to syscourse. The post I linked intially describes the biggest aspect of it, which is the demedicalisation of CDD (complex dissociative disorder) systems and conflation of CDD systems and plurality. This is where most syscourse stems from.

But to be perfectly honest, while there's genuine issues in syscourse, it is actually quite meaningless. It is mostly just petty drama and misunderstandings. If I were you I would still avoid syscourse because it does nothing useful for you.

All you truly need to know is this:

CDD systems are people with a complex dissociative trauma response disorder that formed in childhood which is characterised by the primary symptom of multiple distinct identities within one body. There is more to it than just that, but that is the distinguishing symptoms. It is a disorder and inherently medical.

Plurality is a non-pathological label people use to describe their experiences of feeling like more than one person. These people may or may not have CDDs and may or may not consider their plurality disordered. However, not every CDD system will consider themselves plural. It is important to understand these two things as seperate in order to be respectful of CDD systems who do not identify as plural, and people who are plural for reasons other than CDDs.

Most of syscourse stems from differing definitions, in particular about the term system. System can either mean a) someone who has a CDD or b) someone who identifies as plural (sometimes people can be both definitions). So when anti-endos say "Endo systems aren't real" they mean "it's not possible to have a CDD system without trauma" not "plurals who are plural for reasons other than trauma are not actually experiencing whatever it is that makes them describe themselves as plural". When pro endos say "All systems are valid even if they're not disordered or traumagenic" they mean "All people who describe themselves as plural are valid in doing so, regardless of what the experiences this label is describing are" and not "CDD systems are able to be non-disordered and non-traumagenic".

It is important to respect everyone and their experiences, while also being mindful not up to spread misinformation. I believe that this includes viewing people who identify as plural as plural. My choice of language here-saying identify-is to help illustrate my point that it is an optional label, not indicate that they are not 'actually plural' and simply identify that way. They are actually plural because that is how they identify and view themselves. It is important to be respectful of that.

With that said, you can be respectful without condoning misinformation. Doing things like spreading education about CDD systems being traumagenic is important and good, even if that technically 'invalidates' people who identify as endogenic CDD systems. It is still misinformation regardless of that is how they identify. However, while it is harmful, that does not suddenly make harmful responses alright. Things like attacking individuals who identify that way or even trying to forcefully shove education down their throats--it does nothing to help and in fact worsens the situation.

This what you need to know section is so long. My apologies.

TLDR: Be nice and be educated.

[sleepy-shutin]

8, 19, 25?

8. Do you have a(ny) fictional introject(s)? What is that like for you?

not any true fictional introjects, no, not to my knowledge. most of them are just fragments or loose splits that latched onto the identities of various fictional characters, and don't have a super strong attachment to source. some do have pseudomemories, i think.

i think one of the only true introjects we have is the abuser introject of our mother, who doesn't seem to front often or really interact with the main system right now.

19. How do you experience gender?

with great difficulty.

25. What is a piece of misinformation about DID/OSDD do you want to clear up?

just one?

putting it under a cut because this got long, lmao.

i'm gonna be honest, if you think you have 100+ alters at, like, 15 after only knowing about your system for a few months, and especially if your only reading into DID info has been carrds and twitter threads, you don't have 100+ alters. i hate to break it to you but you're probably making the same mistake i did at 15 and getting what is and isn't an alter very confused, and accidentally inflating your alter count.

this isn't fakeclaiming, this isn't an attack, nor am i saying this with anyone in particular on my mind, this is just genuine advice that i think the younger parts of the DID community really need to take to heart; please be careful when trying to figure out if you have new alters. don't speedrun it, take it slow. i know a lot of the community may make you feel like you have to know everyone in your system within a few months and have perfect communication, and while that may be the reality for some people, that tends to be, more often than not, the reality of people in DID therapy and/or out of their traumatic/abusive home environments, and not kids without dissociative specialists who are still living in shitty homes.

please, for the love of god, take it from someone who made these exact mistakes due to misinformation in the DID community: read some books about DID, learn the differences between alters and daydreams, kin-related feelings about fictional characters and mood swings, and stop thinking that you have to split at every minor stress, because you don't and you won't. do this and you might realize that you don't split as often as you think you do.

because the thing that many teenagers with DID fail to take into account is the entire teenage puberty thing. mood swings, hormones, trying to figure out your identity in the world, experimenting with phases of interests and aesthetics, becoming sexually active (in most/many cases), realizing romantic/sexual feelings, realizing that you've been treated badly/unfairly in the past, especially by parents, etc. all of these things related to teenage years can make finding out whats an alter and what isn't, *especially* when you add maladaptive daydreaming on top of that, where some things can feel very real or affect you very hard, and might seem out of your control, so many might just assume that it's an alter when it isn't.

especially with the way social media works, many younger people just tend to take whatever they see online as pure fact without looking into it, especially if it's presented in a semi-professional and confident fashion, which is a HUGE weakness in younger parts of the DID community. many assume that just because a person with DID said it could happen, that it's definitely true and never misinterpreted symptoms or even that the person in question could be lying on purpose. having DID doesn't make you an expert on DID, it makes you an expert on your own experiences with DID, and you can't speak for *anyone's* experiences except for your own. even then, you have to be willing to understand that you may be interpreting parts of your disorder incorrectly, especially when other disorders are involved that may cloud your symptoms somewhat.

i am desperately begging younger parts of the DID community to do some actual reading into the disorder that's more than just tiktoks, twitter threads and carrds without sources. please figure out how the disorder works, how it's actually formed, and make sure what you're saying about the disorder is as accurate as possible. i will even find a way to hand you any DID-related book you want *for free* if you're actually serious about doing the research.

i'm just so tired of misinformation in the DID community being spread by people claiming to have 250+ alters after knowing about their system for 6 months or less and having done no substantial reading into the disorder. if you don't know something about the disorder, if you realize that you are limited in your understanding of it because you haven't read primary, scientific sources on the subject of DID, then it is completely okay to say that and refer a person's questions to someone else who *has* done the hard reading. it is okay to say "i don't know" and have someone else answer the question, you do not have to be a walking encyclopedia of knowledge about DID, and thinking that you do or that you are an expert just because you have DID does a whole hell of a lot more harm than good.

[spark1edog]

here’s my syscourse code

👍/💛/📗, 📘/🔸/🟢, 🔵/🌗, 🌘/🟩/🌳/🌦/🥖/🐊/🐝/🐬, 🐟

expansion/explanation under the cut

1 - do you believe in endogenic plurality: 👍

I do! I don't really see why I shouldn't, and before anyone says "because systems are osddid!" I just gotta say, yes some of us are triggered by the possibility of endos/being Endo/"having made it up". That doesn't mean we don't want others to be able to do their thing in peace.

2 - opinion on tulpas: 💛 (term bad concept fine)

I don't know where I stand on whether it's Cultural Appropriation because I simply don't know enough about it, and don't really care to go and research it, but everything I've heard in reference to it *not* being cultural appropriation is. :/ questionable, I just don't really care to know the answers to those questions. Do whatever, I don't have the power to tell you not to use a word, but thoughtform/created headmate/etc is right there. I don't know why people feel so strongly about the word "tulpa" in particular, but im not the person whos hurt by it.

3 - do you think endos just don't remember their trauma?: 📗 I think a lot of them don't, 📘 people sometimes misunderstand their identity and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not remembering or that everyone is misunderstanding.

I think there's an interesting phenomenon especially with labels like neurogenic that misinterpret what trauma is and how "much" is necessary to form the groundwork for splits and dissociation. I've also noticed the attitude from some people that they just don't want to be perceived or label themselves as traumatized and I think that's... Tentatively valid, but ultimately unhelpful for them. I respect their right to identify their system however they want, though, and there are a lot of things about the traumatized/traumagenic communities that can be upsetting and cause the denial that I see a lot from (some) endos.

4 - opinion on shared spaces: 🔸: Shared spaces are good but there should also be specific spaces for disordered, traumagenic, endogenic, etc spaces.

I think this is pretty self explanatory, but it kind of irks me in a weird way when people say "plural community" and mean "everyone with a cdd AND endogenic systems" like. The "plural community" exists, sure, but when people insinuate that people who don't consider themselves plural are causing strife in the Plural Community..... ?? I just don't get it

5 - do you think endogenic plurality is comparable to transX: 🟢 Not unless the person themselves considers their plurality transX, 🔵 No, and I'm against transplural

If you consider yourself "transplural," whatever but I hate you

6 - did/osdd/udd without trauma?: 🌗 If/when I'm given proof 🌘 No, but a DID/OSDD/UDD system can form endogenic created headmates.

1. -genic should only be for the origin of the whole system imo 2. I'm open to the possibility of being proven wrong but I have yet to be

7 - Do you think introjects from other cultures should be able to use that culture's names: 🟩 no

I'm white so I don't really get to speak on this but I don't agree with it, idk how I feel about people being "given permission" either, unless it's like Private.

8 - researched self diagnosis?: 🌳 If the person has done extensive research it's okay

9 - sysmed as a term: 🌦 against it

I don't care whether it's transphobic or not actually I just want people to use it properly and perhaps actually listen to one another instead of name calling, on BOTH sides.

10 - traumascum as a term: 🥖 it's harmful

do I really need to explain why calling traumatized people scum for wanting a place for traumatized people is harmful...?

11 - endos using the term "system": 🐊 supportive

whatever

12 - endos using the term "alter": 🐝 I think they should use other terms

alter is clinical language, and unless they're traumaendo or something it just doesn't make sense to me why they want to use the term alter in the first place?

13 - xeno-origins?: 🐬 I don't understand their purpose, 🐟 against it

it's not a gender, also re: earlier, individual headmate origins do Not matter imo and most of them just describe how a system works, not it's "origin"

[marshmallowprotection]

You've probably received an ask like this before, but do you have any specific thoughts/headcanons for Ray Route AE, in regards to the twins, as well as Saeran and MC's relationship? And what I mean by that is... do you think Saeran would have an easier time (even just slightly) getting over his hatred for his brother than he does in 707 Route SE? How would they interact? Would it be similar to how many people interpret their interactions for after the SEs (brotherly love-hate type deal), except maybe toned down a little?

And as for Saeran and MC, I'm not so much referring to the contents of their relationship, but Saeyoung's reaction to it, how he feels about it, etc.

I hope this makes sense, because I love the way you explain things and I would love to hear your thoughts on these ^^

[417]

Hopefully, Cheritz will give us a canon answer soon. I’ve definitely had the time to compare the two of them since I spend so much time in Saeran’s headspace playing around with this and that. Now, if we compare the events of the Secret Ending and the events of Ray Route, Saeran is in a very different headspace by a long shot. His place in his life is also drastically different. Unknown spent two more years in Mint Eye than GE Saeran did. There’s a vast difference between 6 months of being trapped and two years of being trapped. 

Both Suit Saeran and Ray were long buried in Unknown’s consciousness with no MC around to keep them tethered to the front. It was only a matter of time until either of them couldn’t function with what Rika did. I view Unknown to be another personality that split from Suit Saeran after some point during that two year period. Unknown and Suit Saeran have some things in common but they don’t read to be the same person to me. 

SE Saeran is just Unknown post-therapy and confrontation with Saeyoung, so I don’t see them as separate people, but the same person just in different eras of life. I’ve got a whole other people I could make about how it’s possible that Ray could flood back to the surface in therapy, as well as Suit Saeran, but they may not have the same names by that point. That’s more so just a big post on the way that their system works and how all of them cope with their trauma. 

But that wasn’t your question, but I’d be glad to answer that too at some point if you’re curious! Some people are torn on if Saeran has DID or OSDD specifically, and that’s a whole other topic. Anyways, back to the task at hand, SE Saeran in question went through literal hell for a very long time. He is fraught with so much anger and pain. He physically lashed out at Saeyoung and took weeks if not a few months to truly come to terms with what happened. He has to live with blood on his hands as well. 

We all know that SE Saeran tried to get rid of himself and Saeyoung, too. His emotional crisis is a strong one. He’s hurting so much until Saeyoung can get through to him and they can start to heal. It wasn’t easy. It was a fucking mess and that’s how life is. After what they went through? It’s wrong to assume that it would be simple or without pain and tears. Even after the Secret Ending comes to a close and we see Saeran with everyone, he looks so tired. His emotional state isn’t healed. He’s going to be dealing with panic attacks and much of the lingering PTSD for years to come. Saeyoung will as well. 

It’s going to be a constant battle for them. 

But, they’re both trying and the MC, as well as the RFA, are going to be there to help, which is great. A good support system is important but that’s also going to be messy because... well, you know, the truth wasn’t completely revealed to all of the RFA and that’s a ticking timebomb in itself. Saeran’s got issues trusting and being around much of the RFA. He can’t be around Yoosung or Jumin for obvious reasons. 

Either way, the Secret Ending has a lot of weight to it and it’s going to hurt just as much as it can get better for the Choi boys. Saeyoung believes that things can get better, and he’s willing and ready to stand by his brother to fight for their happiness. You know how much turmoil Saeyoung went through because we watched it. We know that he’s willing to do whatever he has to do for the ones that he loves. 

Even if it feels like pulling teeth. 

Now, thinking about what happens in Ray Route, we see the boys past revealed to the world with a direct attack. Saeran is able to realize that he was lied to and manipulated by the people that were supposed to take care of him. He is able to find out on his own that he needs to leave Magenta if he truly wants to be happy and free from his chains. We watch him be so damn strong and turn against the brainwashing and gaslighting. What he did should not be glossed over because going against your abuser is not easy. 

I was so proud of him for learning that for himself. He says himself that MC isn’t the one that got to him completely. It was a combination of factors that allowed him to see it. From how Ray was treated to how Saeran is treated, how they are promised things, and how those things are taken away. How it just didn’t make sense that Rika was disrespecting him and taking away everything. Nothing at all made sense anymore. She said one thing and did another. He decided to fight it even though it made him feel sick. 

You can watch his actions on the last day. How talking about Mint Eye as a bad place makes him gasp and choke, and whenever he tries to give his brother a chance... well, you see how he acts when you’re still holding onto your phone so tightly, asking him to take a chance on the RFA. He nearly has a panic attack when he tries to even say that he should look into it, much less talk to the RFA about it. He knows that he’s been tricked but he’s bouncing between what he has been told and what he’s trying to learn. 

That’s not an easy process. Saeran is going to be dealing with a lot after the events of his ending that we know of. The sudden fusion of Saeran and Ray can actually happen, I know some people feel like that was out of the blue but that can very well happen whether they make the conscious choice to do that or not and it was the best thing for the body at that time. GE Saeran isn’t Ray and he isn’t Suit Saeran, he’s not the two of them smashed together and he’s not one or the other. He’s someone made up of those parts but also his own person. Again, that’s a whole other thing that I’d have to get into here. 

Saeran has a lot to deal with as far as his trauma goes but you know what the difference is between GE Saeran and GE Saeran? GE Saeran had the choice to set himself free and SE Saeran had no choice. He was cornered like an animal and just... exploded. He was put in a position that he couldn’t decide. GE Saeran had the choice to leave Mint Eye on his own. That already makes the world of difference in his recovery. If we’re talking reasonably here, he definitely needs to start seeing someone to talk about what happened as soon as he feels ready to open up. 

So, he’s going to be spending a lot of time working on his problems and God knows how long it’s going to find Saeyoung so he’s likely to be making some good progress on his own. His relationship with the RFA is already pretty good compared to his counterpart as well. He gets along with everyone in the RFA, and he’s particularly close with Jumin, which makes sense given their natural wits. 

Now, therapy and getting a support system is good for Saeran. He’s got his MC as well with him. However, that doesn’t mean that he’s ready for Saeyoung to be back. When they find his brother... he’s going to need time and space for this to work. But, I imagine that he’s in a better headspace to handle it. He will tense up if Saeyoung hugs him and gets overwhelmed to see that his brother is alive after whatever he went through. Saeran will have to gently stop him and let him know that he needs time, he can’t handle all of this at once. Saeyoung needs to take it easy too. 

He’s got to react to the fact that he’s no longer bound by the agency and that he can live a life not hiding behind a mask. That’s going to be his own journey in itself that we could talk about for a while and I hope it doesn’t get glossed over because Saeyoung’s got a lot of his own woes to work on. So, don’t expect it to be perfect or anything here either. 

Saeran is able to breathe through the unease this time, but his MC will be there to hold his hand and help him speak to his brother about it. That first meeting is going to be a lot. It might trigger him, too. That would be the first time that Saeyoung is able to see that Saeran has someone that cares about him and that would be the selling point. If his brother is overwhelmed and scared and the one with him holds his hand and gently calms him, and removes him from the issue at hand, he’s sold. 

No hesitation. 

You protect Saeran, you show Saeyoung that you love Saeran, and that’s all he needs to see to trust you. He may not know all the details at that point but you can fucking count on him to be on board. He knows how to spot liars and people with bad intentions, and you don’t have that. 

He wouldn’t forget to tell you that, either. 

I think even more than that when he’s around the MC, he will notice how they just know when to touch Saeran’s hand and calm him. Saeran and his Mc have this silent communication. They don’t even really need words. They just look at each other and understand. That’s not something that is easily found in any relationship and when you see people that work in harmony you can’t help but smile. Saeyoung has hardly ever seen Saeran smile and you know when he sees it, he feels grateful that someone was there for Saeran when he couldn’t be there. 

There’s going to be guilt and other feelings in that but he’ll swallow that down. One more thing to add to his list of things to talk about when he’s ready to get his own help. 

Saeyoung and GE Saeran are going to interact slowly but surely. They’re going to be awkward... tense... maybe not angry, but there will be tight moments that feel overwhelming for both of them. Saeran might get angry and Saeyoung might be upset so there’s no avoiding a fight here and there but it may not be as violent as with SE Saeran and Saeyoung. Them getting to know each other is like getting to know a stranger... it’s been nearly a decade, they really don’t know each other at all. 

Sad as that is, it’s fun to get to know each other again. Saeyoung gets to learn things about his brother all the time and he writes that down, trying to make things right and make up for the past... Saeran swallowing back his shame and telling his brother that he’s not mad, and them just looking forward. It’s not always easy but I do think that GE Saeran and Saeyoung will have a different kind of relationship given purely from the fact that Saeran was allowed to choose recovery instead of being forced into it. 

[musketeer-system]

About Me (Gabe/Nate)

No one actually sent in any asks and I’m bored so I’m just going to answer this questions. They are below this extension thingy and if you want to have a go, here’s the link.

I swear a lot so Saiph thought it important that I warn you ahead of time.

Are you human or nonhuman? This is actually a pretty funny question for me. So way before it was all worked out, everybody thought I was a fallen angel (not like demonic, angel looking), and I thought so too for a bit but none of us parts are catholic or believe in christianity anymore. I still imagine myself with feather-y wings from time to time tho.

Age? I feel 19, always have, and I didn’t age when we actually passed that age.

Height? Whatever height the body is (I don’t fucking measure myself, I don’t see the point)

Name origin? If an introject feel free to include whatever backstory So my name was originally Gabriel, shortened it to Gabe cus none of us are christian, but then I thought, you know what, I’m gonna change my name totally, so I changed it to Nathaniel, but then recently, I’m thinking, you know what, I fucking like the name Gabriel, who gives a fuck if its christian or whatever. But I’m sorta used to Nate now so yeah.

Favourite colour? I like red quite a lot but I think dark green and black suit me well when I wearing them.

How does being a system affect you irl? It just means I don’t get to do what I wanna do most of the time. I’m thin, so I wanna look thin, but the host and Boot are fine with being chubby and they front the most. I want to learn how to cook more, but the money gets spent on other shit and I don’t get time to prepare stuff like bread or whatever.

Any fun inner world adventures? Everyone is always talking about inner worlds and I honestly don’t think we have one, I know you can create one as part of therapy though so maybe I can tell you some stuff one day in the future

How many headmates are there that you know of? There’s 3 other parts and I’m pretty sure that’s all of us, the host has been realising we might have OSDD since 2018 and I’ve always been pretty sure there’s 4 of us since I can remember and no one new has ever formed or some one hidden has exposed themselves.

Are you open about being a system? No, we aren’t, the most open we are is online where there is a sense of anonmity, (or however the fuck that word is spelt) this is because of me and the host’s feelings. One, we might be wrong, the lies I used to feed the host might not be lies and we might be imaginary or its a different condition, two, I don’t think its safe to be telling people, there’s too much stigma and those who don’t hate you or fear you treat you like something to oogle at.

Any foods you’d like to try? Loads, mostly sweet foods but I’d also like to find a soup we like. Soup looks nice, and it evokes nice feelings but all of them feel horrible and taste disgusting.

What languages can you speak? Does the body actually know these languages? I can speak English and that’s your lot. And yeah, we know English.

Favourite person in the system This is such a rude question and I love it! Besides myself, its Boot, Boot is the only part that doesn’t get on my fucking nerves but maybe thats cus he’s 9 and 9 year olds can do whatever.

Favourite person outside the system? I don’t have one? I don’t spend enough nice time around people to have gotten one. I front to cook, eat and to yell at people who are threatening to us, I can remember other part’s experiences with people that are nice, but I actually haven’t had any.

Whats a thing you consider yourself very good at? Flirting, and making topnotch shortbread. I was actually talking to a cute guy from Ireland who was at Trinity College but the host freaked out cus they’re still dealing with emotions from their previous relationship and deleted the dating account and app so fuck me I guess.

Say at least 1 positive thing about yourself. At least 1, well I’m very sexy, I’m good with kids, I have a good sense of style and I’m gay.

Something you wish to improve within yourself? I need to not get as angry as easily would be the proper grown up response but I really just want to get better at dancing.

Coke or pepsi? No one here drinks any of that shit but if you just want weird brown fizzy liquid, I like Dr Pepper.

Any trinkets you wear or carry irl to feel more like yourself? I don’t have any? I like collars, but we haven’t got any in the style I like and we can’t afford Docs or multiple pairs of converse.

If you could change the body in one way, what would it be? Be thinner, being this thicc without being on hormones just means everything is wrong and makes me dysphoric.

Does your sexuality differ from the singletsona or host at all? Singletsona! We don’t have one of those, just go along with the host cus they’re the host because they are gonna have to deal with this sort of thing more. But yeah, my sexuality is different, I’m homo(demi)romantic and homo(grey)sexual. 

21 but gender identity The host is enby transmasc, I’m a guy and even tho the body is AFAB, I don’t view myself as trans cus I never thought, even for a second that I was a girl or went along with what people assumed I am. I am happy to use they pronouns tho.

Favourite song? In a Cave by Kitchens Of Distinction and Ghost by The Horrors

Do you have a space inner world? Whats it like? We don’t have an inner world so I don’t have a personal space either.

[clever-and-unique-name]

Hi. I don’t know who I am but I do know you are a person who knows about DID and I wanted to ask if you have any tips about talking to people about us. With respect -Us

Now I want to get a nametag that says “a person who knows about DID.”

In regards to talking to people about you (I assume you mean about your dissociated parts), it really depends on who you want to tell, and for what reasons. Are they friends, family, a therapist, etc?

Systems have widely ranging preferences on how overt (open) or covert (private) they are about having dissociated parts. Some people would urge you to introduce yourselves to all the people, others would urge caution. I think everyone has to draw their own line about how overt/covert they want to be in order to live their best life, so I’m not going to preach about that.

Personally, only a couple friends know about our dissociated parts (and we will of course get around to telling our therapist when we get one.) Part of this is because we know how deep the stigma against DID/OSDD runs, and it would take too much of our energy to handle more people knowing about us. We were lucky to be friends with people who already know plenty about dissociation and systems, since they have both themselves, but it was still nerve-wracking to tell them about us.

I think, if I were going to start warming up to the idea of talking to someone new about us (who presumably doesn’t know about dissociation or systems,) I would start by breaking everyday things down into “parts of me” speech. “Part of me feels like this, but part of me feels like that.” “Part of me really wants to do this, but part of me is kind of nervous!” “Part of me really likes that kind of ice cream, but part of me hates it!” And then once it was established that I’m a super conflicted person who’s really in touch with these apparent inner parts, I would start casually talking about dissociation. Just to see how well they could grasp it--if they can understand feeling separated from mind and body.

Only then would I consider introducing the concept of dissociated parts and letting parts introduce themselves. Because then the stage has been set--they would already know about these other parts, all that would be new would be putting a name to things I’d already talked about. “Oh hey, I’m Tristan--I’m the one who’s a shameless flirt and gets mad about stuff.” Or whatever.

I know that process sounds like a lot (which is a big part of the reason why I don’t talk to people about us,) but for us it would be the only possible way to feel comfortable with introducing ourselves and being open about us. I think it’s really important to examine why you want to tell people first, because once that bridge is crossed, there’s no undoing it and you might not like what’s on the other side.

Also, just a final word of advice (I know I’ve rambled enough already): know your boundaries, and arm yourselves with knowledge about DID/OSDD. Be ready for people to not understand, to ask a lot of “dumb” questions, to be skeptical. The best answers to those things is to know what you’re willing to put up with (boundaries) and educate them as best you can!

--Razael (mostly)

[disorderedanddoubtful]

no, we don’t hate you.

Here’s the thing. We don’t actually hate endos. We don’t hate anybody (apart from Nazis, TERFs, and the Israeli Govt). Many of us are sick to death of having to pander to people’s delicate feelings regarding their spiritual beliefs, though, and the insistence that these beliefs are equivalent to our lived trauma.

Newsflash: we don’t have to believe in your spiritual beliefs. We don’t even have to respect them. We respect your right to hold them, and it would be poor behaviour if we mocked them in front of you, but ideas themselves do not demand respect.

If you think you’re a cat person with a past life on Mars? If you’re a fictional character? If you’re a reincarnation of a fictional character? If you and your bestie system-hop all the time? Okay. Does it make you happy? Yes? Excellent! We think it’s all nonsense, but what we think about your spiritual experiences, whatever they are, should be immaterial, especially if they are ‘real’ to you. (If one random system on the interbutts not believing in otherkin/fictional past lives/anything woo undermines your entire existence, the problem isn’t actually with the random system, I promise you.)

You need your own space. You need your own terms. You need to stop using DID related terminology and being in our spaces and muddying the waters for genuine sufferers of DID, all of whom are trauma survivors. This is not because we hate you or think you’re lesser or whatever, it is because our experiences are not the same. Literally the only thing we have in common is having multiple identities. That is not enough to conflate non-DID multiplicity with DID/OSDD. 

This is not a matter of tastes or preferences or anything like that. It is a matter of providing trauma sufferers with their own space and terms. We need this. Insistence on everything being inclusive to everyone to soothe the egos of those who are NOT traumatized is not fair on people who are still hurting and actively trying to heal that hurt. THAT is actual ableism.

We don’t say this because we want to hurt endogenics or make them feel lesser. You are not lesser than DID systems. But your experiences ARE different. Where there’s overlap, fantastic! Let’s hang out and talk about that! But please, please understand, trauma survivors need their own space, without the slim chance that some roleplayer will turn up whimpering about how their past life trauma is so awful and won’t you throw them a pity party? Please? And making an ungodly fuss when you have the audacity to say no?

Because this does happen. If you’re all so insistent upon your lived experiences being taken into account, then take other’s into account as well. This. Shit. HAPPENS. We have sat in front of someone listing off trauma from their fictional past (as in, they literally took it all from a fantasy novel) while blinking away tears as memories of our actual physical and mental abuse prickled at us.

We kept our mouth shut. We suffered. No longer.

There are those outliers in the endogenic community. There are abusive people who use made-up ‘trauma’ in a sick display of oneupmanship. We have lost years of what could have been a very functional life due to endogenic insistence that this was a spiritual thing and it was perfectly normal and everything’s fine and good and dandy and you’d know when someone “takes over your body” and integration is evil and all psychiatry is Bad and so on, so forth. These types of endos exist, and they have hurt DID sufferers. We are not the only system who had this happen to them.

We will not, will not deny our trauma or our right to our own safe spaces just because you dislike it. Your spiritual beliefs do not, and will never, take precendence over someone’s lived trauma.

[eeveelutionsforequality]

Trigger warning: Suicide, rape, poop and child molestation.

My Facebook is almost entirely meme pages these days, so my feed is 90% jokes about killing yourself and chronic alcoholism, 5% puns, 1% each for gore, porn, poop and anime, and finally 1% articles (news and opinion alike). And before you ask, yes I have unfollowed the majority of my friends to make room for the aforementioned "It's time to put the I in suicide!" posts - I just relate to those more.

So imagine my shock when my pleasant scroll was interrupted by a post from a page that I shall not name but that can be summarized with "I smoke lots of weed, hate the government, and am likely to engage in revolutionary suicide so that even my death is virtue signaling" - said post being an article about "Pedophile culture". I've seen the article shared on here before (long story short: men like hairless legs, how can we use this to make men look evil? children have hairless legs... aha! lets claim men like children!), but this time I decided to look for some spicy reactions in the Facebook comments, maybe a good "this is bait" picture I could steal... oh how I came to regret that decision.

First I found a comment thread in which a person with Link (some Twilight Princess artwork, to be precise) as their profile picture very calmly and respectfully explained that liking hairless legs could be a number of things - simply not liking the texture of hair, or even being victim to the same brainwashing that the article claims the media inflicts upon women. To which the page responded "^ dude stop fucking kids" (and got 38 likes compared to Link's 18... kill me, just right now, end my suffering, please). Want to convince people that pedophilia is an incredibly prevalent problem caused by sexism? Well don't forget to fire off baseless, albeit jokey, accusations of child molestation at everyone who disagrees with you! That'll really hammer home the severity of the situation!

There was also a comment saying that people who use the term "SWERF" to describe certain feminists are "rape apologists", and some pretty gnarly stuff calling every guy on there who commented about his own preferences towards body hair a pedophile, and then blah blah patriarchy, blah blah women are oppressed, blah blah beautiful hairy pussy - suffice to say, most of the comments were the generic trash that I am used to scrolling past to get to that sweet sweet reaction pic.

But then... well, I'll let these two direct quotes speak for themselves:

[After someone else mentioned the "I'm a pedophile but not a monster" article] "I wholeheartedly agree with you. You're not a monster - you're a man. A rather common man. A microcosmic representation of patriarchy's most prevalent perversions."

"I and every other woman I know has a story of being sexually abused or taken advantage of by an older man when still a child or teenager. It's an epidemic."

Earlier I saw a video in which a man walked into a bathroom stall, did a handstand, and projectile pooped over the wall of the stall. That soaring turd made more sense than whatever twisted logic led these two people to claim that it's common, normal for men to be child molesters, that being a pedophile is simply part of being a man, and that society accepts- no, encourages child molestation... and on top of that, to imply with anecdotal "evidence" that 100% of women were raped by men as children.

Unlike the article, these two people are not simply trying to attribute bad intentions to a perfectly normal occurrence because of their own bias; they're literally claiming that men, en masse, are raping female children to enforce patriarchy (enough female children to be called "common", an "epidemic", the "most prevalent").

There are actual victims of child molestation, sexual assault, rape and child abuse - we get disorders that stick with us for the rest of our lives: PTSD, DID, OSDD, BPD, NPD, AVPD, depersonalisation/derealization, depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, eating disorders, fuck I could go on and on and on. It isn't a normal human experience. It's not common, prevalent, an epidemic, it's not something that every woman goes through or that every man wants to do/actually does. It isn't "Oh, there goes Bobby down the road, probably raping kids again, how quaint."

There's something extra sickening about people claiming that child molestation is just what men do all the time to enforce patriarchy. That's not why abusers do what they do. Even if you believe in patriarchy, surely you understand that individual people still do awful things without doing those things specifically to further patriarchy, and that by implying that raping children is some orchestrated global conspiracy amongst men and not the actions of a terrible individual you're fucking with victims and not only how they view their abusers, but how they view men as a whole; not to mention that you're invalidating male victims and victims of female abusers.

It's important to realise that there may well be actual victims reading these comments, and when you say that all men are as dangerous and cruel as their abusers... well, from where I'm sitting, that just looks like you're trying to incite paranoia and mistrust of an entire gender, in people who've already been through enough.

And I haven't even gone into the long rant about how this crime shouldn't be gendered or used to further gender-focused ideologies - about how many boys are victims of child molestation, about female teachers raping male students, about the cultures around the world that include being raped as a part of a boy's "becoming a man" journey, about the number of female abusers especially when you include cases in which there were multiple abusers (Spoiler alert: it's a fuck tonne higher than zero). I haven't even begun ranting about the article itself or the rest of the comments - I haven't talked about how there isn't a pedophile culture, about how it is literally seen as the single most disgusting thing a human being can be.

But I can't put all of my problems with these comments into words right now - fearmongering, lies, gendering child abuse/molestation, belittling the severity of abuse by claiming that it's an accepted everyday tactic that "the system" inflicts upon everyone within it, and more - I'm tired and the world sucks and people suck. It's like they got done diluting the word rape and they had to move on to something worse.

Next week on The Feminism Show: Is patriarchy gang-raping all babies and then feeding them to pigs? The answer may surprise you.

~ Vape

[veteransystem]

Plural Friendly Fire: It Sux 4 Evry1

So, I was going to leave it for the night, but against my better judgement I read our entire dash, including this ask and response (in a series of angry anons). And this segment of the anon rant stuck with me:

“actually also u can help being what u are! just stop pretending! its so easy when ur not traumagenic bcuz it actually isnt an illness u suffer with!”

Because this statement, and the attitude behind it, is why most systems don’t last a year out of the closet. Of all kinds: endogenic or traumagenic, neurogenic or spiritual, fictive/factive or split or walk-in or any variation, past or present. In every category of plural there is, systems that have recently come to terms with the fact that they do not experience life as one mind in one brain have been bombarded with the message:

1) you must perfectly match this particular extremely strict model, primarily defined in negatives, stereotypes, and impossible catch-22s (e.g., “all systems with fictives are fake,” “traumagenic systems have just been brainwashed by their shrinks,” “you’re not real unless everyone can front on demand BUT if people front for any reason other than ‘just feeling like it’ they’re fake”, etc.)

2) if you do not perfectly match the model, you are either fake or mistaken,

3a) if you are mistaken, you can stop being mistaken instantaneously by obeying the first total stranger to yell at you in ALLCAPS, or

3b) if you are faking, you can stop faking by Deciding Not To Fake Anymore, and this is an easy, painless process which you can do Right Now and will cause you absolutely no harm.

The number of systems who have had to check into psychiatric hospitals for suicidal ideation over “failing” at 3b is larger than you’d think. Trying to force yourself to Stop Being Plural tends not to work. The damage done to cooperation, in-system trust, and whatever we’re calling co-consciousness this year can take years to repair, and will leave serious scars.

And the thing is, much of this is aimed at a perceived “enemy” category, but primarily hits vulnerable systems of the same subcommunity.

Here’s another statement, drawn from this angry ask from the same series as before:

“go get a brain scan and tell me if ur amygdalar and hippocampal volumes are around 15% smaller bcuz of childhood abuse and trauma like DID systems are”

Now, the research backing up or refuting this statement, I’m going to leave to @solipsistful and @lb-lee, since they’re old hats at it. What I’m going to do is break down is how this statement, though aimed at a quoigenic system, is not exactly a helpful thing for vulnerable traumagenic systems to come across either.

First, “go get a brain scan”. What kind? CT? MRI? PET? In the US, a medical doctor would have to place the request for imaging, and most trauma-certified therapy specialists do not hold a professional medical degree, so the request would have to be placed by a psychiatrist working closely with your therapist. 

Are you a traumagenic system with DID or OSDD on Medicare because dissociation, flashbacks, and other symptoms of severe trauma prevent you from working? Medicare Part B only covers “medically necessary” clinical diagnostic laboratory tests—”medically necessary”, in this context, means “is it an essential, non-optional requirement for diagnosis or treatment?” Since the diagnostic criteria for DID and OSDD in the DSM-V does not require brain imaging for diagnosis, Medicare will refuse to pay for this procedure. You definitely do not have between $2000-$5000 to pay for it out-of-pocket.

Are you prepared to fight over the phone every day for months trying to get the United States government to recognize the medical necessity of finding out the size of your amygdala and hippocampus relative to a control subject when it’s not part of the diagnostic criteria for a particular illness? You probably already know the miserable process of being rejected for disability income and having to repeal the decision in court.

Second, “tell me if ur amygdalar and hippocampal volumes are around 15% smaller”. Now a neurologist is going to have to be involved, since 15% is not a dramatically obvious difference to a non-specialist’s eye and even your psychiatrist is probably going to have a little difficulty with this one. You’ve got three professionals and an extremely expensive yet “optional” test involved to satisfy an angry system on the internet. Finally, though, you go through all of this and come out the other side with confirmation, rush to Tumblr to tell them...

...and they don’t believe you. “You’re just saying that; what’s your proof?”

Now you need to show them your brain scan. Maybe you’re lucky and were given a disc with the data on it. Maybe you’re also lucky enough to have a computer powerful enough to handle the software necessary to analyze that data visually. You throw yourself into it and figure out how to use this software just well enough to take a screenshot of your “amygdalar and hippocampal volumes” and toss that up with a scan of the neurologist’s written assessment for good measure.

Even if the original anon accepts it, someone at some point is still going to go, “Nope, it’s fake, you totally got that off Google Images.” You, already exhausted and dealing with mental illness, have just spent ridiculous amounts of effort getting an extremely expensive scan of your brain and putting it on the internet in order to prove you are Really McReal when the mere fact that the scan is on the internet will render it suspect.

"This is a strawman argument,” you might say. “That’s an absurd series of hoops no one would ever go through.”

But that is my point. I will be extremely surprised if there are more than five traumagenic systems on this site who have had brain imaging where the data has specifically been analyzed regarding the size of various volumes relative to what a neurologist would generally expect. Most traumagenic systems do not know how their specific brain compares to research findings, because most have not had this kind of imaging done for this purpose. Some may have had imaging for other diagnostic purposes, but then it hasn’t been assessed in this very specific way. They likely don’t have a personal copy of their own brain imaging data, and if they did, where are they going to find a qualified, verified, and trustworthy DID/OSDD-friendly neurologist to assess it for free?

It’s a near impossible qualification for most traumagenic systems to meet, to have jumped through all the hoops to acquire this very specific knowledge about their brain to meet this extremely specific criteria unrelated to the actual diagnostic criteria of DID and OSDD, but it’s being thrown at a quoigenic system as if it were Something All Traumagenic Systems Know.

A very newly out system could read it and think, “Oh no, we don’t have a brain scan and we can’t get one. Everyone’s going to think we’re fake!” or even “Gee, we’ve never had a brain scan. Our therapist didn’t say anything about needing a brain scan. If he doesn’t think we need a brain scan, maybe our trauma wasn’t that bad? Does he think we’re faking? Are we faking?” or “Oh god, one day we’re going to be the ones being screamed at and torn to pieces and who the fuck even knows what it’ll be for. I mean, brain scans? Fucking BRAIN SCANS? I can’t fucking handle this, guys. I can’t fucking handle all of us having to walk on eggshells Or Fucking Else, we’ve got to go”.

All three lead to genuinely traumagenic systems quietly fading out of the community, never to be seen again. Because someone decided to Protect The Vulnerable by Attacking The Enemy without thinking about splash damage.

Meanwhile, most endogenic systems probably just looked at it, thought “pfft what a nutter” and went on with their day.

Hate whoever you want to. It’s not like I can stop you from thinking or feeling a particular way. Just remember that your actions can hurt people you don’t want to hurt in addition to the people you’re taking aim at, and if you’re not careful, you might even hurt them more than the ones you hate.

—Ilya