#I think that’s unlikely since we constantly see characters come back from the dead/communicate from beyond the grave BUT YOU NEVER KNOW

[manitapaleta]

Hey what’s up, I’m still crying over this

[antisociallilbrat]

IT/TUA Crossover

Okay I've been bouncing this idea around in my head for a while and I want to share my thoughts. I also kinda want to write this into a oneshot but we will see. Also this is only a crossover in the sense that the Losers are in the place of the TUA fam. So like what would happen if the Losers were the ones born with the marigold and adopted by Reginal Hargreeves. I mean....both TUA and IT have seven main characters so how could I not try to merge the two?

Anyways moving on to who get's what marigold (powers) and I have some maybe controversial opinions

I'm not basing this on the TUA character's personalities, just their powers btw

AAAA also for those not familiar with TUA, the numbers don't really matter, like just because someone is "Number 1" doesn't necessarily make them the leader

Number 1 with the power of strength should be Mike and my reasoning for this is because Mike has a strong heart and he would love his adopted siblings (the Losers) and would use his strength to protect them- also Mike staying at the academy the longest, hoping his family would come back

Number 2 who's power is uhhhh how do you word that? Super Aim? Basically he never misses AND he can stop something in motion in it's tracks, like bullets fired from a gun- Anywho I think this should be Ben. I feel bad bc this is my least favorite power (but I LOVE Deigo) but I like the idea of Ben being a knife guy, it's outta pocket and no one would expect it

Number 3- Mind control- Miss little "I heard a rumor" is definitely Bev. I don't have to say much about this, but Bev using her rumor power to get ahead and be one of the most successful people in Hollywood- not that she needs much help. But also like how Luther and Allison have that weird relationship, her and Ben would have that too

Number 4, the power to commune with the dead and *Spoilers for TUA season 3* the power to come back to life after dying. This is where I get a little controversial but hear me out...I feel like this should be Bill. Unlike his TUA counterpart Klaus, Bill would channel his fear of ghosts into writing and he becomes a bestselling authors selling stories that the ghosts tell him. In an interview he gets asked how he comes up with these ideas and he just shrugs "They just come to me" and meanwhile the ghost who told him the story is yelling at him. I do think that LIKE Klaus he would distance himself from his family

Number 5 who can teleport and time travel is obviously Stan. Stan is literally an 85 year old man in a 13 year olds body. Stan is already a little unhinged but getting lost in time, seeing THREE apocalypses and constantly trying to save his hairbrained family. Five in TUA IS Stan. An old soul who loves his family but also wants to murder them because they somehow keep causing the world to end. Also Stan would be so mad at himself that he hasn't mastered time travel since teleporting came so naturally to him

Number 6, the ability to summon tentacles out of his chest is Richie. Which also means Richie is dead. RIP. He's dead for everyone else but Bill can NOT get rid of him. Remember Bill talks to the dead? Richie would be following him around and aggravating Bill every chance he gets. Bill acts annoyed but he is happy he gets to talk to his technically dead brother while the rest of his adopted siblings had to mourn him. Just imagine all of the BICHIE friendship moments I could write if I wrote this ship. Richie would make so many dead jokes

Number 7, the power to turn sound waves into energy is Eddie. Poor Eddie who was constantly told he didn't have any powers bc Reggie was terrified of them. Jokes on Reggie. Eddie ended the world. Twice. And he's the strongest one of the bunch. I feel like that would be a strong character moment for him

I want write parts of this AU, I love it. Who knows if I'll ever find the time. Also yes ik there's spelling/grammar errors. I am tired

[mariduenanicole]

English Proyect

Definitions

What is a story?

A story is a series of events that we create, remember or imagine and that we tell to others because we want to know something, or learn something, or answer a question. A story is a narrative that conveys a sequence of events or experiences, with characters and a plot. In order to communicate ideas, emotions and information. They can be told through various media, such as the written or spoken word, visual arts, theater, film and others. The important elements that every good story must have are: Characters, Plot, Setting, Conflict, Theme, Point of View and Resolution.

What is a tale?

It is a relatively simple narrative, fictional or real, written or told orally in prose or verse. A tale usually relates a strange event, focusing on something different, marvelous, or even supernatural. While stories can have various purposes and more serious forms, tales focus more specifically on conveying a message or lesson, which is straight to the point since they are usually short.

What is Science Fiction ?

Science fiction speculates about alternative ways of life made possible by technological change, and hence it has sometimes been called "speculative fiction". It is capable of transporting readers and audiences to new worlds beyond the imagination, whether in outer space or in alternate realities, where advanced technologies, magic and the unknown come to life. Through science fiction, we explore what our minds imagine about the future, ask thought-provoking questions, and contemplate the impact of scientific advancement on society.

Science Fiction History

Since I turned 15, I've had to endure my mother's endless complaints about me and our life. After my father left and she lost her job, everything spiraled downward. My mother once adored her role as an environmental activist, constantly emphasizing the importance of caring for the planet. When they took it from her, she lost her true passion. My attempts to cheer her up always failed, and we consistently clashed, like we did at dinner tonight.

"Grace, why don't you go out? You're not too old for that, especially during your vacation," she said as she placed a sushi roll on her plate. With a sigh, I tried to steer away from the conversation about my antisocial tendencies.

"You're irresponsible. Do you realize you killed a living being? It just needed a bit of water, unlike you, who uses it as if it's never-ending!" she exclaimed.

"Mother, it's just a simple plant. It won't save the world," I responded, equally serious, but I can't seem to cheer her up.

"You lack empathy, Grace. You're too immature to understand. You don't even seem like my daughter." I stood there, torn, wondering if I should back down.

"Think what you want. You don't even talk to me anymore. I wish I were far away from you!" I shouted before retreating to my room in anger. I needed some time to cool down. I grabbed the dead plant and threw it to the floor. Then, my cat nudged me with its paws, and I followed it toward a door that looked like a rainbow. I walked through it and found a modernized version of my home. As I entered the living room, where my mother was reading, I couldn't help but look around in astonishment.

"Mother? What's going on?" I asked, feeling uneasy about the different appearance of our house and the futuristic TV.

"Grace, you look different. Have you tried a new face mask? I don't understand why you see me like this." She sat up and looked at me with a mixture of curiosity and concern.

"Mother, I've always looked like this. Why is everything so different? What's happening to your face?" I inquired, trying to get to the bottom of the situation.

"Grace, are you okay? My face is this way due to the lack of water. It's been like this for years. But we can't complain; we have new technology, which you like. I focus on you because we can't go outside; everything is better." She was going on about the changes, but, I was struggling to understand.

"What?! What's happening?" I hurried over to the window and saw a dark sky and illuminated houses, but no signs of plants or creatures. Panic "set in" as I thought of my cat, Luna, my only friend.

"Mom, where's Luna?" I asked, "apprehensively," dreading her response.

"Since when did you start forgetting things, Grace? Luna passed away six years ago. In our time, there are no animals. Are you sure you're okay?" My mother's words hit home, and I couldn't help but feel a sense of loss.

"Y-yes, Mother, I'm fine. I'll go to bed," I replied, my fear starting to wear off. Slowly, I retreated to my room. I understood I was somehow in the future, but it was a frightening future. I needed to come to terms with this reality.

I spotted the magical door, now gray, but I knew I had to return. I realized I must go back to my present, my past, and figure out something for my future. Finally, I ran through the door, pondering how something as simple as water could hold such significance, shifting our perception of the world. I resolved to open up to my mother about her work and share what I'd seen. This experience strongly reinforced the importance of water conservation and its critical role in our lives.

Through the hotpot AI site, I was able to create an image for my story, through artificial intelligence, putting a small description of my story, exactly when Grace enters the door to the door that will take her to the future.

Video

References - Travis, M. W., & Staff, T. (2011). What is a story, and where does it come from? TheWrap. https://www.thewrap.com/what-story-and-where-does-it-come-32636/ - Definition of “Tale.” (n.d.). http://www2.hawaii.edu/~davink/MYTHOLOGY%20CLASS/DEFINITIONS/tale.html#:~:text=Tale%20(defined)&text=A%20tale%20is%20a%20comparatively,%2C%20marvelous%2C%20or%20even%20supernatural. - Guides: Science Fiction - Greensburg Campus: What is Science Fiction? (n.d.). https://pitt.libguides.com/scifi

[pynkhues]

Please recommend some of your fav Rio fics!

Of course, anon! Since you asked for Rio fics, I'm going to guess you meant Rio POV fics? If not, I'm sorry, haha, because that's what I've collated, but I hope you give these a shot regardless! They're all fics I think are pretty great. ;-)

Below a cut, because this got long.

But when he does reappear at the store—she still doesn't hear him coming, she needs to work on that—she's wearing a fuckin' dress, and he's glad she hasn't seen him yet because he can't stop himself from grinning.

Maybe it ain't for him, but given the fact that he doesn't think he's seen her legs since he came back—aside from that one night at the bar when she was definitely feeling herself—it seems like this is an intentional break in the pattern. Either way, he fuckin' loves the idea that she's been dressing up all week, not sure if he's coming but wanting to be ready if he does.

Now Use Both Hands by ms_scarlet / @mego42 6k words. Explicit. Beth x Rio. S3 canon divergence.

Ooooof, this fic causes me physical pain, but I love it a whole lot. Meg really captures Beth and Rio at their most acidic, their most sharp edged, while also managing to balance that with the feelings they desperately don’t want to have. It’s a bit magic, and the fact that she follows this up with another fave, Listening Through the Air Shaft is *chef’s kiss*.

- - - -

When he wakes, he's in a hospital bed, mouth dry as bone and he can taste blood, stale and metallic, on his tongue. The pain in his chest has been dulled by the drugs, but it still lingers, a persistent ache that spikes with every breath.

By all rights, he's a dead man walking.

Ten hours, they had him in surgery. From the look of his chart, he'd flatlined twice, and he can feel the consequences of that, see it in the bruises on his chest, the exhaustion lining the faces of his family. He'd woken to a little hand in his, Pop's cheeks damp with tears, and shit, it'd been close. Too close.

Bury a Friend by @ejunkiet >1k words. Mature. Beth x Rio S3 canon divergence.

Pivoting from 3.01, this fic is a wonderful, quiet character study that looks at Rio in the aftermath of the shooting before he explodes back into Beth’s life. It pulses with emotion and with the promise of catharsis, and it’s just a really special little fic. The Rio voice is terrific too.

- - - -

He finally gets what he needs one day when Elizabeth’s wearing this tight black sweater with a keyhole that shows off just enough to make Rio’s jaw rock. It’s so out of the ordinary, so unlike her ugly li’l sweaters or her surburban mama button-ups, he does a double take, head whippin’ around so fast that she catches it immediately. Then she catches where his gaze lands, where it keeps landin’ through their whole stilted, irritated conversation, and he sees her chest pinken til he can count her freckles. He sucks his lower lip into his mouth, and her lips fall open just the smallest bit, and then she looks up at him.

Eyes locked on each other, Rio takes a step closer. Elizabeth doesn’t back away.

I Will Collect You and Capture You by @foxmagpie 17k words. Explicit. Beth x Rio S3 canon divergence.

I feel like I've recced this fic 1,200 times at this point, haha, but it really is one of my favourite fics in the fandom. It has this sort of grip on you as a reader that almost embodies Beth's grip on Rio in the story, and the way it builds and builds and releases only to build and build again is really delicious, affecting writing.

- - - -

“Com’n her and her lady friends were shakin’”

“Shakin’ about the lemon on the fuckin’ granite, sure.”

They chuckled as the car rolled on, the suburbs slipping away with the sun.

“Think they’ll pay up?”

There was a groan as Rio shifted in his seat, flexing his fingers along the dash.

“Neighborhood like this? Everybody knows someone who knows someone with a trust fund.”

Mick’s lighter flickered, followed by long, rasping inhale. “And a boat.”

Smoke swirled lazily through the open window up into the purple sky.

“And a boat.” Echoed Rio.

Drivin' through the Suburbs by gangfriend / @00gangfriend00 5k words. Teen+. Mick + Rio friendship, Beth x Rio. Canon compliant.

It takes a lot to make me laugh out loud in a fic, but this one does multiple times. It's just insanely fun, and captures Rio and Mick at their most boyish in a way I find utterly charming. It's really, really delightful.

- - - -

She’s got her crimes wrapped up and categorized in folders with labels and post-its. Wrapped up in gift paper with a big blue bow on it. And she’ll probably ask Turner do you want freshly baked cookies or some shit when they go raiding her kitchen.

Rio should really get it under control. Her, get her under control.

She opens the door and slumps onto the front seat, her eyes set angrily on him. Nineteen voicemails and she’s still got things to say: he sees it in the twitch of her hand, the restless, frustrated pattern. Any minute now she’s going to settle on new words to voice her complaints like he’s here to listen. Like he’s got the time— like he cares. Like he’d better.

It’s a Work Thing by isoldewas >1k words. Mature. Beth x Rio. 2.12 canon divergent.

I'm a bit of a sucker for a good canon divergent fic, and this one pivots the car break up in 2.12 in a smutty way that just works unfairly well. It's such a great little fic that really settles well into Rio's headspace during the messiness of s2, and I love it.

- - - -

They settle in their respective places and Rio takes the opportunity to give Elizabeth the same once over that asshole did. Her ass really does look great in those pants and she could fill out any shirt. Her eyes linger over him too, tracing his skin, the bar tattoos peeking out from under his t-shirt that she’s seen a million times but she devours at every opportunity. Then her eyes meet his and she gives him that small, crooked lil’ smile.

He’s not one for religion, but every so often he takes his mom to Spanish mass. All the viejitos and pious Catholic types think he’s a banger but his ma’s still excited to show him off. He sits with her in the pew and when the priest asks for the congregation to give thanks to God, he says a prayer for the riches that have come to him, the health and brilliance of his son, the vitality of the other little ones in his life now, and Elizabeth. And when he thinks of her in those moments, he sees her in his mind’s eye with this exact look on her face.

A Bit of a Stretch by @septiembrre 5k words. Teen+. Beth x Rio. Established relationship.

Beth and Rio do a yoga class together! There’s such a lived-in feel to this fic that it feels impossible not to fall a bit in love with it – their relationship is explored in a way that feels true to who the characters are, while sanding down the edges to create something that feels sweet in the way they usually aren’t in canon. It's a great fic, but more than that, it really just works in a way that's a lot more complicated than it looks, and it’s all the more charming for it.

- - - -

He’s happy to keep kissing her like this. To savour it. Realises she’s undone the last few buttons of his shirt at some point as she shoves it down his shoulders. Doesn’t have a second to think about his ugly scars pressed to her skin. Can just feel her little hot palms snaking up his back and grippin’ him tight. Refusing to let any light between them as they kiss for what feels like hours.

He realises these are the lips he’s been tasting. Searching for in other women when his night’s got too unbearably quiet, hunting for an echo of the thing he really wanted. Comin’ up short every damn time. Sweet and soft and lethal. Unique to her.

It’s longing in a way he’s never felt. This is the taste of it.

As Good as This by @riosnecktattoo 5k words. Explicit. Beth x Rio. 4.05 canon divergence.

Okay, I know I just said how much I loved canon divergence fics, but it bears repeating – I love canon divergence fics, haha. This is such a great alternate take on how the wire scene in 4.05 goes down, and it simmers with tension from the opening line. The way it escalates as Rio navigates this newest betrayal works really well too, and it results in a pretty sexy and surprisingly emotional sequence. Magic!

- - - -

“Do we have a deal?” She asks.

When he turns to look at her she’s smiling, and that’s when he realizes he’s absolutely fucked. He’d just fucked himself out of almost a quarter of a million dollars. He lets his eyes drop down her body, licks his lips and nods.

“I choose the place,” he says and turns on his side to face her. “You owe me half - with interest,” he says and slides a hand into her hair. She’s damp, the sweat slowly cooling.

“That’s not what - “ she opens her mouth to protest and he takes that opportunity to slide his mouth across hers and lick into her mouth.

Long Nights by zetuslapetus / @querenaxx 2k words. Explicit. Beth x Rio. S3 canon divergence.

Rio and Beth bone while negotiating a deal! What's not to love, haha. This has such a fun checks and balances feel to it which just makes me want to peel my skin off, it's so good. It's exactly the way I like my Beth and Rio - hot and snarky and constantly trying to get a leg over the other, literally and figuratively. It's the best.

- - - -

He should go out and find someone to fuck. Maybe text one of his hookups. See if Jen’s working. He has options.

He knows what he should do.

But it turns out fucking other people is a worse hell than the one they create when they’re together.

And now that he’s yielded to this wicked ecstasy, he knows he’ll do anything to keep sitting in the fire with her.

To Sit in Hell with You by @daydreamstew 2k words. Beth x Rio. Explicit. s4 canon divergence.

Canon-divergent from 4.06 – Beth and Rio keep hooking up after the time at his grandma’s place. It’s fun and sexy while also keeping the complicated push-pull and lack of communication at the heart of them. Deeelightful.

- - - -

“Does it make it easier?” Maddie asks him once they’re spent, maybe emboldened because he has already brought her into their bed. Which may be unfair, because Lee had been in their bed from the beginning.

“What?” He seems lost in his thoughts, his arm behind his head. In a few minutes he’ll get up and get ready to get back to the factory. Like always, she’ll be looking for her keys so she won’t be late for work.

“Getting it out of your system before you see her.”

Rio glances at her. “I don’t always see you when I see her.”

It’s so rare for him to explicitly mention this woman, however tenuously, and Maddie waits for more. Rio’s gotten like this about a few women in his life but it doesn’t happen often.

Sure am Using You by aniara 2k words. Explicit. Rio x OC, Rio x Beth.

It's not for everyone, but I absolutely love fics that feature characters with other people in ways that tell you something about the characters' feelings about somebody else. In this fic, Rio's fucking one of his childhood friends, but it's all about Beth really, and the way both Rio and the OC negotiate that is really compelling writing, and feels so in character for Rio. I really love it.

- - - -

Rio dreams of her that night, again. It’s irritatingly pedestrian – Elizabeth’s kissing him deep and then, ah, suddenly his gun’s in her hand and she shoots him, with a double encore. It’s always variations on the same futile theme. When he wakes it’s not that he’s freaked, unaware of reality or his whereabouts. But he’s been soaked in anger for so long. He can’t think straight, not on her. It’s honestly terrifying. Cos stubbornly keeping his head on right is – that’s him. Maybe her entire raison d’etre is destroying every single one of his attributes though.

He ain’t sure if his subconscious is desperately screaming that he’s made the wrong move, letting her live. Or if it’s the total opposite. Could be fucking neither. It’s not – it’s not getting any easier. And that main reason for not biting the bullet, that he’d be mad as hell for being mad as hell at himself over killing her, it's not smelling any less idiotic.

Climbing up the Walls by s_t_c_s / @sothischickshe 8k words. Explicit. Beth x Rio. S3 canon divergence.

Another canon divergence from 2.13 and an interpretation of how s3 could've gone, and another one I really love. There's a throughline of chaotic frustration to this fic that rings true to Rio's character for me, and the way that that reverberates through his moments not just with Beth, but alone and with other women, feels really textured and interesting and real. It's pretty great.

[forgiveness-in-the-misery]

Skwisgaar's Psychology

After rewatching Metalocalypse a total of three times ever since the news of the potential finale movie I kind of had a realization; I really fucking love Skwisgaar. I also started by halfway through rewatch two realized that his story and background and general psychology is really fucking fascinating to me.

So I am going to do my best to discuss his character and his psychology and how we see him progress through the show....I already did this with Toki a while back and kind of would love to do it with Murderface and maybe Pickles as well, I'd say Nathan, but he's the....least fucked up in a sense.

Skwisgaar let's start has the most dialogue in the first couple of seasons of the show and even then it isn't overwhelming compared to the other members of the band. By season four he speaks very little and rarely.

When we are introduced to him in the beginning of the show he seems to be like the rest of the group; a diva spoiled rich rocker who has been grossly wealthy for so long that he's forgotten how to function as a human.

You also with the first season especially have this running gag that isn't even a running gag that Skwisgaar or Toki will say something weird and then the other will add onto it and they just say weird shit about life and death or the violence of man, it's weird, and strangely endearing.

Which speaking of how those two play off each other brings me to the fact the pilot episode immediately establishes that these two are almost always together. The band goes to a grocery store and everybody splits up, except for Skwisgaar and Toki who go off together when in all reality that isn't remotely necessary. We also learn in that first episode that Skwisgaar gets pissed when Toki teases him and calls him a woman despite Skwisgaar calling him one like a second earlier and also that Skwisgaar is sexually attracted to elderly women.

Two things are heavily associated with Skwisgaar as a character; he is extremely sexually active and he's got his guitar with him in 99% of scenes. Skwisgaar also doesn't appear to be the most talkative, he can be bitchy and throw tantrums like the rest of his bandmates, but also seems to be more prone to crying and becoming anxious or worried for his friends and their wellbeing/safety, in terms of socializing he seems to be a bit awkward and seems the most comfortable communicating through sex and music. He's teasing and can be a dick, but there's no real edge to it. He also while seeming in some regards to be a bit....dumb to be blunt about it seems to actually be rather smart, though often seems to just keep that to himself probably because he knows who his friends are and they aren't prone to listening to people.

Season one wasted no time in introducing the band's parents and this included Skwisgaar's mother, Serveta. One thing that I do find super interesting is that he is the only member of the band who comes from a single mother, technically it isn't interesting, but the theory (probably canon) that their fathers aren't really their fathers at all and that their mothers became pregnant by the Deth Star makes it interesting. To me at least.

With Skwisgaar's mom in regards to the first season of the show we quickly learn that their relationship is strained. She's an older woman who just like Skwisgaar is very sexually active, we see her come onto Nathan's father who is married and sitting with his wife and son, Skwisgaar's reaction to this is to get upset and begin frantically playing his guitar. Skwisgaar spends a good portion of this episode drinking and at one point saying that ever since his mom got there his stomach had been hurting and he'd just been feeling like absolute shit. When we see him bonding with his mom he's brushing her hair and looking like he'd rather be dead or any place else, seeing him helping her groom is weirdly a red flag to me.

We learn by the third season of the show that his mother is intensely vain and in love with herself, she resents Skwisgaar because being pregnant with him and giving birth to him ruined her 'perfect' body and I'm sure the years where he was too young to fend for himself annoyed her because it meant she couldn't party or have men over or run off whenever she wanted, something I get the feeling that changed when he was about ten years of age. In a bonus video that comes with the first season of the show you see interviews with the band on various random topics; one of the scenes that is...uncomfortable to say the least is when family is brought up. Skwisgaar begins to say something, but trails off and becomes visibly upset before saying he's just going to shut down for a while, Toki confesses some more physical abuse before also shutting down.

I'm going to take a guess that Skwisgaar only had his mother when he was growing up and she only had him, I'm sure she has parents and maybe even siblings and aunts and uncles, but it appears that she has absolutely no relationship with them and Skwisgaar most probably never met these people.

The walls of Serveta's home sport dozens of headshots of herself and a couple of pictures of Skwisgaar as a kid thrown up by the front door almost as an after thought. It's likely and most probable that Skwisgaar was thrusted into the position of caretaker and even a husband sort of position when it came to his relationship with his mom; given the task of looking after her, holding her hair back when she pukes after a night of drinking, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. We know when he was about ten or thirteen years old he came home from school to find his mom having sex with two men, an event that scared him and led to him being chased by wolves and falling into a pit where if he weren't a demi-god he legit would have died. I feel like his mom reached a point with him where she stopped caring whether or not he saw her....personal life, perceiving him as an adult despite still just being a boy and also seeing him as somebody who is taking up space in her home and preventing her from having fun.

When she marries Tyr they're all over each other constantly....until Skwisgaar and Tyr become friends and begin spending time together, then she cheats on him. She was jealous that her latest man wasn't giving her constant attention and got angry at the concept of sharing him with her own child, which is super fucked up.

Skwisgaar throughout the show has a fake persona. He likes to pretend he in some way is like his mom; he likes to pretend he has his head up his own ass and doesn't need anybody but himself, he loves himself more than he could ever love another person. Which isn't true. At all.

I think that growing up with a narcissistic parent who emotionally neglected and emotionally abused him put him in a position where he had to shut down like that. He had to learn at a very young age that crying and yelling and being angry gets nothing done except maybe piss his mom off more, after finding his guitar he threw himself into music and appeared to shut himself off socially, preferring music over human interactions.

Music is something that Skwisgaar can rely on no matter what happens; he will always have a guitar, he will always be able to create music even if it is just for himself and nobody else. People come and go, people physically hurt you, people emotionally hurt you, or make you feel worthless. When we see the flashback to the night Magnus was kicked out of Dethklok Skwisgaar is faded into the background, almost like a ghost with his slumped shoulders and his hair curtaining his face as if he wants to just disappear. When they're auditioning for a replacement Skwisgaar is positive he doesn't want somebody else in the band, that they are fine just being four.

I think it comes from the fact he was terrified of repeating what just happened with Magnus, finding somebody he might think he can bond with over music only for that person to turn into a monster who makes him feel like he can't even do the thing he loves more than anything correctly....Then Toki came in and when they had their duel it quickly turned from a competition into a conversation. Because that's the one way Skwisgaar knows how to communicate, the way he is the most comfortable with; he likes to communicate through guitar and finding somebody who he could speak to through music excited him.

It's clear for obvious age related reasons that Skwisgaar has/had a care taker role where Toki is concerned. I mean he was about 15/16 when Skwisgaar took him into the band so he was a literal child, even when he's older Skwisgaar still looks out for him and is in his own sense immensely protective where he's concerned. Skwisgaar is also that way with the rest of the band even if it's more subtle. He worries about his bandmates, if they get injured or nearly killed it bothers him and he doesn't want anything to happen to them. When the band is going to break up he completely shuts down, because admit to it or not they had become the only family he ever had. I think Skwisgaar is so hard wired from his childhood to care for people that it's something he can't shake and maybe with the band he doesn't feel its a bad habit, because unlike with his mom, his bandmates arent forcing him to look after them. It's something he does because he wants to do it.

Of course in regards to his attraction to older women that definitely comes from issues relating to his mother....I don't think it's in a creepy Freud way, but more so just wanting to feel cared for back. Very obviously he can't exactly approach any of his bandmates and ask for a hug....well except maybe Toki and Pickles if he's super drunk or high, but outside of those two instances....they aren't people he could exactly just ask for validation or comfort or consolation. They aren't....good with that shit. Older women though usually have a tendency to be coddling and kind, Skwisgaar probably learned that as a teen or in his twenties, I think it's less about the sex factor and just feeling important. In terms of sex with people closer to him in age (I will die on the hill that he's bisexual, because he keeps just throwing it out there that he would blow a guy and he had multiple three ways with Melmord) I think it's a distraction for the most part, he uses sex the same way he often uses music, and honestly....He grew up seeing his mother have men over constantly.

Skwisgaar didn't grow up seeing love or healthy relationships, he saw his mom parade various men through the house and maybe she kept some of them for a while and I doubt the relationships were healthy and I'm sure he knew that his mother didn't love any man she dated or married for a short while. Even in the show he isn't fond of love or marriage, the only time he dates somebody is when he moves back to Sweden and finally starts to get his life together in a more healthy sense and that relationship didn't feel like it was based on sex. It was based on physical and emotional affection and it was the only time Skwisgaar ever looked actually happy in terms of intimacy.

Sex is a job, a chore for him; he's the God of Life so it's technically what....it's y'know his thing, creating life. As a lot of people notice....he seems far more sexually active after him and Toki's second fight in regards to music and petty bull shit. Season four is essentially the season where Salacia gets what he wanted aka the band tearing itself apart and you can see them all fall apart individually. For Skwisgaar falling apart means closing himself off, throwing himself more into his guitar and more into sex. He becomes more of a tool and an object as if that's all he wants to be, because being a person who opens yourself up and lets people in and tries to care about people ends up with you being hurt, badly.

Which does bring things back to his super complicated slightly homoerotic to the point even the show had to mention it for a hot second relationship with Toki.

We can gather from Doomstar that Toki was far more into music when he first joined Dethklok which I think worked out great for Skwisgaar, because as I said before; Skwisgaar communicates through music and this gave him somebody that he could talk to without the awkwardness of verbally conversing.

Though that changed clearly and you can feel that Skwisgaar is bothered by it, like in some weird way it feels like a minor betrayal. Toki notoriously never practices or puts in a lot of effort in terms of making music which Skwisgaar often comments on, complains about, or gets on him about. Reasonable. Guitar is part of who he is, but at the end of the day a talent that made him rich, that's what it is to Toki.....Skwisgaar on the other hand his guitar is literally an extension of himself and seeing him without a guitar in his hand for longer than a single scene gets weird.

Still despite the two of them losing the art of communicating through their music....they're close. Super fucking close. If you watch Metalocalypse and tell yourself going into the show that you're going to focus heavily on a single character or on a certain relationship you notice a ton of shit. Like you notice that Toki and Skwisgaar almost always sit together, stand together, talk over one another, finish each others weird sentences or ideas, copy each other to the point they spend an entire episode bickering like children over copying each other, and often spend their time hanging out together. Again. They're really close as if they're a single person split into two.

They're close to the point that inverse their fans just to some extent assume the two of them are fucking and madly in love and I mean I'm gonna be honest just objectively speaking here I would not be surprised to find out they have had sex before at least once or more times. Just saying.

That aside though and just sticking to the platonic here....They're close, Toki means as much to Skwisgaar as guitar does, and that's saying a lot. One big reason I want to bring up their relationship is that his relationship with Toki brings to light Skwisgaar's issues with death or more specifically death where Toki is concerned.

In season one when Toki has a bit of a breakdown and Pickles suggest they kill him, Skwisgaar looks tense and uncomfortable and says that he doesn't like the idea because it's a lot and it makes him feel not so good. In a deleted scene where the band watch Nascar together Pickles ask Toki and Skwisgaar if they were supposed to be dead or in jail or something because it's the same episode where they got shit faced and got into a high speed chase. Skwisgaar when responding about it changes the word dead/death out for sleep, stating they were supposed to be put to sleep but just had to do community service instead (Toki corrects that it was jail, not being put to sleep). In the deleted IKEA scene when Toki stressed says maybe the two of them should just kill themselves Skwisgaar immediately freaks out and later when they return to Nathan and Murderface they both look super emotionally fucked up and when Nathan ask if they had been crying Toki gets defensive and says no while Skwisgaar beginning to cry again says they had been crying. Then of course after Toki ruins Skwisgaar's reputation and becomes Magnus Jr. for a few weeks and ends up having a panic attack and making an ass of himself....Skwisgaar thinks he's having a heart attack and freaks the fuck out terrified that he's dying.

Then finally for a compilation of Skwisgaar not handling Toki dying well; in Doomstar before they go in to save Toki Skwisgaar makes the sorrowful comment that sometimes he wonders if they should have stayed a one guitar band. It isn't him being a dick, he isn't saying this isn't worth it. He's saying essentially that Toki was stabbed, kidnapped and possibly murdered and it's completely his fault; if he hadn't taken Toki in then none of this would have happened. Which immediately leads me to believe that post the funeral episode that Skwisgaar spent those months high and drunk and late at night blaming himself for Toki being taken/murdered. That's a lot of blame to put onto yourself and to say its your fault solely because a few years ago you took this kid in off the streets is honestly heart breaking.

Early on in the series there's an episode where Toki's pissed that he isn't seen as Skwisgaar's musical equal, he wants solos, and Skwisgaar turns him down. Which through the series and within that episode itself we easily learn why Skwisgaar never gives him a solo; Toki has performance anxiety and he never practices and quite honestly knows almost nothing about guitar. It's valid. Either way in this particular episode Toki gets pissed and decides he wants to take lessons, Skwisgaar offers and Toki turns him down because last time they tried...he kind of just ended up beating the shit out of Skwisgaar. (to be fair don't dump a bucket of blood on your friend's head) So he goes off and finds an elderly man to teach him how to play guitar, Murderface being a dick decides to tell Skwisgaar that Toki is super good at guitar now and.....Skwisgaar doesn't react well. He gets pissed off and has nightmares about Toki becoming better than him. He even confronts Toki and his guitar teacher and threatens to kick him out of the band. When he realizes at the end of the episode that Toki is still....really not great with music....he's chill again, everything is forgiven.

I kind of think that episode is a reason people perceived Skwisgaar as a dick or is one reason, but honestly he isn't being a dick. I mean sure, a bit, but they're all dicks. The thing is guitar is a crutch for Skwisgaar, it is super important to him and he doesn't know who he is without his guitar, without his music. So somebody else threatening to take that from him freaks him out and he reacts poorly to it.

Then we get to near the end of the show when the same issue arises except completely different. Toki again later in the series ask Skwisgaar for a solo and Skwisgaar annoyed refuses him, Toki being the mild psycho shit that he is decides to just kind of ruin his life as revenge. Again by this point in the show its kind of obvious if you actually pay attention at all that Skwisgaar keeps telling him he can't have solos because Toki never fucking practices and even in the studio Skwisgaar has to record most of the rhythm guitar parts. He's also known since Toki's audition that the kid is prone to choking up and making mistakes, so he's technically protecting him without just outright confronting him.

Toki writes a book calling out Skwisgaar as an abusive tyrant and an over dramatic bitch. Admittedly Skwisgaar is a slight diva and just like the rest of them can be a total asshole, admittedly to a lesser degree than the others. What's really fucking interesting for me personally about this episode is that Skwisgaar is catatonic and depressed for 99% of it. He doesn't speak. This starts literally the second that Toki releases his book saying that Skwisgaar abuses him, this is before Skwisgaar's career goes down the toilet, his career hadn't been impacted by this yet.

Skwisgaar falls to pieces because Toki, Toki who he's known since he was just sixteen and took in off the streets and they're always practically attached at the hip and have been since day one just released a book calling him an abusive monster.

I do have a feeling one reason this fucked him up is because he might be terrified that he's turning into Magnus without realizing it, that perhaps he has become an abusive monster and has been making Toki feel the way that Magnus made him feel towards the end of his time in Dethklok. I think there also is probably something soul crushing about the person you love platonically or otherwise referring to you very publicly as abusive. Of course all of this worsens when Skwisgaar's career begins to fall to shit, eventually towards the end when Toki is at the top of his ego trip being a prick Skwisgaar does confront him, that in itself is interesting.

Skwisgaar goes in way calmer than I would be in that situation, sure he gets pissed off as they bicker, but again he's waaayyyy fucking calmer than anybody else would be especially since Toki just yells at him through the entire conversation. Of course interestingly is that Toki perceives Skwisgaar in a way that isn't entirely true, he thinks Skwisgaar mocks him and thinks of him as nothing which isn't true at all, when he says Skwisgaar laughed at him he just responds that he never did that and he sounds slightly hurt by that. They're both hurt and none of these men are good with healthy emotions. Skwisgaar never loses his shit on him in the entire conversation, he looks like he could easily go ape shit but instead warns him that the audience will eat him alive the second he fucks up.

Which turns out to be true, Toki fucks up and people begin turning against him which leads to him having a severe panic attack. Like I mentioned before Skwisgaar thinks he's dying and tries to save him, scared out of his fucking mind at the concept of Toki dying. Which....the dude just spent several weeks treating you like garbage and calling you a monster who abuses him, if Skwisgaar was actually a shitty person then he would have laughed at him or mocked him or given him shit about this moment for years to come....but he doesn't do any of that. He is worried about saving him, probably terrified that if Toki dies then their last conversation was a fight.

Their dynamic changes a lot after this, not in a way that's overly obvious unless you watch it closely. They spend a lot less time together and what feels almost out of character initially in Dethcamp is....Skwisgaar easily going along with Murderface and bitching about Toki, because....again can't stress the Scandinavian dudes are always attached at the hip and now suddenly he's easily saying mean shit about Toki. It feels weird until you remember that not long before this they had a massive fight, Toki called him abusive and momentarily ruined his career and most likely afterwards tried to act like nothing happened at all while Skwisgaar probably wasn't capable of doing that.

Occasionally in season four Skwisgaar and Toki will sit together or stand together, still talk or have that physical closeness but it's far between and you see Toki spend a majority of his time with the toxic trio: Murderface, Rockso, and Magnus. Skwisgaar spends his time typically with Murderface and Pickles then near the end spends most of his time with Nathan.

Skwisgaar is a person who grew up in a home lacking affection and love or safety, he didn't grow up with examples of love or healthy relationships and as far as he's concerned relationships are a waste of time and energy because they all end the same.

Of course for as much as he says that, as they all say that....it's bull shit. He cares deeply about his bands and him trying to act near the end like Dethklok was just another gig it isn't, these people are his close friends and his only real family. Seeing Pickles and Nathan fall apart wrecked him and having Toki turn on him so easily gutted him. Skwisgaar is a super emotionally fragile person, he seems absolutely terrified of showing anger or aggression as if it's something he's never been comfortable with or learned when he was young gets you nowhere or perhaps there were men around who were violent and loud and it made him scared to ever be that way. He's the only one of the band we never see really lose his shit or be randomly aggressive and violent, he also strangely enough cries the most out of them canonically. People always make the assumption Toki cries a lot, but like canonically he cries waaayyyy fucking less than Skwisgaar.

I really find Skwisgaar interesting....clearly and this analysis might be a jumbled mess, but there's strangely a lot of things to unpack and things I probably didn't even touch on as much as I could have, because this is already insanely long. I have a deep appreciation of him rewatching this show now that I'm older and far more into analyzing works of fiction.

I hope that this was remotely coherent.

[whencallstheheart]

WCTH Season 8 Survey Results

Thank you so much for participating!  Here’s what you all had to say:

Responses to the short answer questions are under the cut!  It’s very, very long.

What do you see happening in the future with Lucas and Elizabeth?

Literally nothing except them talking about how cute they are and her stupid book

Lucas will lose everything that makes the character interesting in favor of conforming to whatever best suits Elizabeth.  They'll be so boring.

I have no interest in any story between them.

A lot of candles

Reply hazy, try again.

I can definitely see them having a lot of relationship drama and business drama, as well as Lucas learning how to be a good stepdad to Little Jack

They’ll break up when she realizes his criminal ways.

Don’t know, don’t care

Nothing good

Traveling. To see her family to get married

More depth to their relationship (I feel we were told more than shown)

LOL. They're going to be as boring and disgusting as a dead slug.

Hopefully a breakup.

Lucas is shown to be Abusive and Elizabeth will be hiding it.

He loses all his money, ruins friendships through business, constantly stalks Elizabeths every move listening to any conversation she has, having zero interest in Jack and Elizabeth reverts back to her big city attitude, but they stay in Hope Valley and annoy everyone. I’m not sure I see it lasting with the ratings are bad - I think the writers may be forced to make up their mind on Lucas for maybe even Nathan. I hope Jack rises from the dead (that would reek havoc and fun). Really I wish them all the WORST. OH and I think Lucas has deep secrets he wants to hid and I think the writers may even pull a repeat storyline (like with Nathan - even though they claim they don’t repeat storylines).... COUGH COUGH CHARLES MUCH?!? Oh and they’ll have his dad show up in town to cause drama. I almost hope Lee starts to clash with Lucas.

I want them to break up...

Lots of cringe worthy dates. Maybe some disagreements about their jobs or where they might live if they get married. Lucas spending some time with Jack

Elizabeth being out of character to fit with Lucas

the same for any new relationship - rocky roads with great romance

Problems, the two are sickening when they are together and their activities are only about them

Lucas needs to leave.  He is not a family man.  Elizabeth is a mother first, Nathan is a family man.

Lucas will learn to have a family.  Want him to loose the saloon and try to get it back. Problems with the pinkertowns

Hopefully nothing

Whatever the writers have in store. Since I'm choosing something else, I won't know and I won't care.

Well, she already has a great saloon dress, so I see her leaving teaching to work in the saloon while Robert raises Little Jack for her.😜

Boring boring boring storylines!

I do not care.

I don’t see a future as I will not be watching. Show is ruined.

Too many stupid over the top romantic dates

Marriage

Marriage

Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy

Not much.  What kind of story or life will they have?  Courting and dining and not much else.

Courtship and eventually marriage if the show lasts long enough. Lucas learning how to be a father. Maybe a trip or something after her book is published.

Get married and raise Jack together. Maybe have another kid.

More of the same. Just a physical relationship with some books and candles. Boring.

I don't know! That's my biggest problem. I can't see a future for them because I can't see them together, I always saw an end point. Where will they even live??

Marriage and a new baby girl

Not much

Trouble. Stress with things not working out as easily as they thought they would.

I honestly don’t know. I just feel like she looked so uncomfortable with him all season. Then all of a sudden she’s making out with him on a bridge?? She didn’t even want to hold his hand and when she did it was awkward.

Not interested at all.

Don't care.  Will only watch for other storylines.

Many dates, becoming a family with little jack , Lucas proposing   On  bridge in   The season 9 finale episode

Disappointment when she finds out he hired Christopher to spy. Lucas will have financial hardships and will spend time with Little jack. May partner with Nathan regarding land grab and the "bad guys".

Honestly no idea. I could see them not working out, but maybe that's wishful thinking right now while I'm still bitter.

I think Lucas will be supportive of her in her work and raising jack and there relationship will grow and they will be engaged sometime in season 9.

Dinners with champagne and too many candles. That's about it.

Chris McNally should leave the show

I'm honestly not sure. I think they have a lot of work to do before they even think about getting married because we haven't even seen a fleshed out relationship between them. I assume there will be some adjustments with how Lucas will fit into Jack's life too as he will be getting older since there has been zero interaction between them. I really have no idea but I also could not care less about either of them, so I'm hoping they won't monopolize the time in each episode. But I also think it would be hard for them to monopolize time because they don't even do anything lol, this is just a long winded way of saying I have no clue.

Getting to know each other better. Helping each other with changes with their jobs. Getting married.

I see them supporting each other through career struggles, Lucas trying to find his role with Little Jack, Elizabeth maybe feeling weird about Lucas’ money and trying to go full homesteader :)

Marriage, fights, baby Jack moments, etc.

Some boring shit...

Them having trust issues only because of how little we actually really know about Lucas and he has put himself in sketchy circumstances before. I honestly just don’t trust him, he’s been portrayed so perfect this season which isn’t realistic at all.

Relationship does not work

He will lose everything and she will see he was superficial

Probably a lot of fancy dates and romance

I don’t really know, not interested much in them.

Writers will have them marry, even though they have no chemistry whatsoever.

I guess something to do with Elizabeth's writing? I'm not sure, I feel like they had such little development together that it's the only thing they share.  

They should be working toward learning how to fully trust each other and communicate properly. Hopefully Lucas bonds a lot more with Jack. I have loved the little interactions between Lucas and Jack and there needs to be more if he is supposed to be Elizabeth's next husband.

Maybe a proposal by the end of next season. I'm really so neutral about the relationship that it doesn't matter to me. Maybe if we actually see some development I'll feel differently.

I really do not care enough to have any thoughts - I will be skipping what the show comes up with anyway.

They have a satisfying break-up lmao. That final scene was the most stilted and painful thing I've watched on the show in ages and that's saying alot.

He will break her heart

I'd hope they find they are just too different and break up. He's too smarmy for her.

A breakup

An engagement and Elizabeth pregnant with a baby girl

Moving back to Hamilton to live their champagne privileged life.  Hope Valley deserves the other characters to have their story told. Nobody wants to see a teacher and saloon owner being together.

Nothing. Completely have no interest in them. Wasted all season watching a so called love triangle.

More of the same.

Marriage

I never saw them as a couple- don’t think it’s a good match — they have not chemistry — hope they

break up — I just find his character as having no charisma - he’s too slick looking.  He was never into Baby Jack.... unlike NAthan

I hope they move away.

I hope they do not marry

I am not sure. Lucus is into the business of making money. That is what drives him. I don’t see him as a family man at all. Truthfully I will be disappointed to see Elizabeth go back to her privileged ways because of Lucus. I think she grew independent of her upbringing and to set her right back into the lifestyle she was born into totally undermines the strength and courage we watched her character blossom into and fell in love with.

Lucas will die.

Moooreee loooveee

Lucas’ relationship with Little Jack as a first time father and how it affects his relationship with Elizabeth

Who cares LOL i do not watch for Elizabeth

Getting maried

Ugh! Don't care.

More courting, scenes with baby Jack, probably some tension

Lucas is a duplicitous, dishonest person. Elizabeth will regret her choice and go back to Nathan.

Business problems, secrets galore, probably a super over the top wedding

More dinner dates?

I see Lucas and Elizabeth still in a relationship, but having some problems. Lucas's trust issues and bad communication vices needs to end!

Honestly, I have no idea.  Whilst I do love the actors and watch them separately,  I find it very difficult to watch their relationship on screen together.  For some reason it sets off a deep seated anxiety in me,  so I tend not to watch them where I can help it.  If I do watch in season 9, it will be for the supporting cast stories, and I will avoid their relationship storyline altogether.

Really don't care as that pairing makes no sense to me

full courtship

Don’t really care.

courtship, some struggles,  and then marriage - hopefully

No idea … don’t care about them

Candles.  Lots and lots of candles.

Don't know

I don't know and I'm not interested

Blah....

Spending time together, double dates with Lee and Rosemary, and dealing with any problems Elizabeth has with the edcuation guy from the county.

I really don't care, sorry.

A nice long courtship

I think Lucas will  encourage Elizabeth when her book is released they will continue to fall more and love and Lucas will propose in the finale of season 9

I have no idea. Their storyline was already so bland and boring. I guess they'll try to write stuff about E's book and then ppl trying cause trouble for the saloon. I dont really care what they do.  That relationship and storyline is dry as toast

Don't really have an opinion

Elizabeth stops teaching to write full time. They marry and move into swankier diggs on the edge of town. Little Jack spends his days at  Rosemary and Lee's house to get away from the constant champagne swigging and insufferably bad French.

Don’t care

I will not this show any longer. Season 8 did it for me.

a lot of kissing

Hopefully small, simple storylines that build up to an actual relationship that isn't just tonsil-sucking smooching. I think we deserve the attempt at seeing a relationship build after all this nonsensical drama.

That she finds out he isn’t who she thought he was and she made a big mistake. By then Nathan will be happy and fulfilled with someone new

More chemistry-free scenes

She leaves him for Nathan

Mismatched couple.  Very materialistic.  Maybe leave the show!

Move out of hope valley

They will make out all the time.

God I don't even know. I'm not remotely invested in their relationship so I don't really care honestly.

Far fetched - I hoping the past catches up and problems arise

Hopefully moving away so we dont have to watch them anymore

Nothing exciting

Boring storyline

I wish a break up

Don't care

L losing his money and figuring out how to be a real person with hardship. E struggling with the school but not actually doing anything kinda like the finale. I want them both to stay away from Nathan and not force a friendship.

Don't care

They will get married and have children

Lucas sells saloon and starts new, family friendly business.  He and Elizabeth court and become more serious

Dating, getting to know each other better, marriage

His shady ways will nip him in the butt and Elizabeth will open her eyes and realize how he's caused her to change into the "Hamilton" woman she didn't want to become.

Continuing courtship, then Lucas does a shady deal and leaves town

breakup

Blech- If those last scenes are any indication

Borrowing inappropriate life

I do not give a damn

I think and truly hope Lucas will show a side of him she doesn't like and she will get with Nathan. Probably won't happen but I think Lucas is just too slick and a little shady.

Think she will discover he has some things she doesn't like or agree with and will fall out of love with him

It will be a love forever!

I honestly think nothing will happen, they'll have another rather long (one season or two) relationship, then they'll get engaged, marry again, have babies... unless they decide to bring in random troubles, but honestly nothing much

Don’t care.  

I'm not really interested in these characters anymore

That they don’t get married and the storyline goes back to the original premise of the teacher and the Mountie.

I don’t care.

I don’t care.

They split up

they will settle into a comfortable relationship and then there won't be that much oppertunity for grown

They're a terrible couple and I don't really care what the writer's do with them.

Not interested in their future

A wedding.  They have unfortunately taken it this far, they have to finish it.  Anything else would make John Tinker's decision even more ridicuous.

I hope she realises she made a mistake thirty seconds into S9 and runs back to Nathan.

Don't Care, will not be watching.

I hope their relationship grows until ultimately they get married and have a family

They will get married and hav a baby girl.

Boring story line of privileged life and focus on book publishing and tour.  No chemistry "romance".Should marry right away as there scenes are so sexualized, which would be scandalous for that time.

fun romance, hopefully more with Jcak

No idea.  I can't picture Lucas involved in the school or any other part of Elizabeth's Hope Valley circle, so I imagine the storyline will give them a new focus.

Elizabeth will realize she made a mistake and leave Lucas!!! Only to find it's too LATE!

L& E have NO CHEMISTRY  

Don’t know, but I’m excited to see them as a couple! Just them getting to know each other even better and becoming more a part of each other’s lives (this includes spending time with Little Jack) as they move toward their future together. :)

They will probably get married.

Whatever serves Elizabeth’s plot line

What do you think they have planned for Nathan?

Who knows but I have no faith in the writers so they’ll probably fuck it up

Maybe he tends to a woman in need?

I would love for him to interact with more people in the town. Definitely more day to day scenes with Allie. I’d love to hear her refer to him as Dad. I hope someone new will come into town who will be perfect for Nathan and he will sweep her off her feet

Something great I hope

New romance. Maybe a tussle with the Pinkertons.

Hopefully a lot of interesting things! I'm hoping for a romance with Faith, I think they could be pretty great

Nothing. If they didn’t decide who elizabeth picked till last minute, no way they have anything planned for Nathan this far out. BB and Tinker are all talk.

Hopefully better treatment but I won’t know because I will not watch anyway

I hope someone amazing

A new love interest

More “Girl Dad” Nathan, potential relationship with Faith of a new character, a platonic acquaintance ship with Elizabeth & Lucas despite everything

Nothing that will do him justice.

No fracken clue. Maybe he’ll focus only on Allie from now on.

Nathan finds out that Lucas is abusive toward Elizabeth and ready to thrown Lucas in Jail where he belongs.

Some bullshit like always. I don’t even care to predict much. They have so much contempt for him it’s insanely uncalled for. They think he’s boring, they think he’s a Jack 2.0 (Brian Bird even said this on Twitter). They undermine his duty, frame him as if he is some like creep who followed Elizabeth to town, when in reality he was doing it out of respect, duty and honor. They are so needlessly disrespectful to him (Kevin knows this), especially bc they framed it as if Nathan never gave E space and time, which we know is BS. He is a real man and does what real men would and we know WCTH is scared of a real man. They’ll try to put him with Faith (snooze), or hell maybe they have not renewed When Hope Calls and he will become a lead on that show (I’d welcome him back into Alfonso’s arms any day). Lord knows Alfonso can write and actually respected his character.

A new love interest. Maybe a career change so he can be there for Allie more.

At this point with how they handled him so far I'm not very hopeful

I truly think something more exciting than it would have been with Nathan and Elizabeth

Not sure, can we trust anything logical to happen, hopefully he can see it was good not to be chosen by Elizabeth

He should be with Elizabeth

Probably saving Elizabeth and Lucas from danger

Help Lucas with this Spurlock Guy.  Navigate with a teenager.

If the writers/producers are smart, they will get Lucas away from Elizabeth almost immediately and get her hooked up with Nathan.  This was a blow and so deceiving to the fans!  (I only answered “someone new” to the question above because Elizabeth was not an option).  

Unfortunately not anything I trust them to do a good job with.

I am worried they’re planning to stick him with Faith.  Ugh!  

BB doesn't care, it will be tacky and messy.

Probably kill him. They’ve done everything else terrible to him.

Sadly, probably a relationship with Faith. Never been a fan of her.

A new love interest

A new love interest

I hope a new love interest. Courtship, Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy.

A great love story with someone new to Town!!!

Plenty of Mountie storylines, fathering Allie through teenage years, finding love, learning how to be friends with E & L. Maybe a visit from his mom.

Hopefully an epic story of heroics and a forever love who is unwavering and true to him. He deserves nothing less.

Get shot. Lose a leg. Get a life-threatening infection. Fall in a lake. Get locked inside a burning building.

I think they're gonna try to pair him with Fiona

New mountie responsibility and new love interest

No idea

Leave the Mounties and start a horse ranch or be in charge of the livery. I like him as a Mountie though.

They had all these amazing story lines for him even though it was just one road block after another for him. I want to continue to see Nathan deal with Allie growing up and their relationship.

I feel so disappointed & sad for him.

A storyline that hopefully won't screw him over, with no Elizabeth  involved. She needs to stay out of his life decisions. Bring in a new character for his love interest. But, most of all give him and Allie the happiness they deserve.

Faith romance ,more challenging cases in his job and trouble with ally father

Allie’s Dad, promotion

Not enough! Will try to find him a love interest but will focus on his relationship with Allie and her father, who will come back to cause problems. Nathan will partner with Bill regarding mining disaster investigation and Pinkertons.They need to make him prominent next season for show to survive because Kevin McGarry is beloved by fans and the best actor on the show next to Martin. The Mountie character should be prominent. If they try to put him with Faith it will be like a Dr. Quinn-Sully type relationship, and I don't think it will work. I love Kevin opposite Jen Lilley.

They will probably shackle him with Faith and that will bore me.

Have no clue

Relationship drama, Mountie stuff, trouble with Allie. Pretty much the same as this season but hopefully there will be more of a focus on him instead of Elizabeth.

Love with Faith, UGH. And more incredible fathering with Allie <3 Elizabeth could have had her chance with that family but no, apparently she’s “not in love” with him and never was.

I'm hoping we get to see Nathan form more friendships with other HV residents and deepen his relationship with others. I assume the Pinkerton storyline (which I have no idea how that will play out) will bring him and Bill together professionally, so I would enjoy to see their friendship be fleshed out more. Hopefully more of him with Allie and facing her teenage years as her father will be fun to see. I hope they bring in a new love interest for him because I would really enjoy seeing him catch the eye of someone new and vice versa.

More adventures as a Mountie.

No idea - I think he should find another path though. I don’t think he likes being a Mountie.

Another suitor, work stuff, family stuff, scenes with Allie

I just hope it is not faith as his love interest

Hopefully more storylines about him and Allie! I love them and I just really hope they focus on him and his journey with Allie. I don’t want a romantic storyline for him bc that’s really soon and he was IN love with Elizabeth so it would be unrealistic for him to jump into another relationship like that. I do want him to get over Elizabeth though and see him recover and grow from that!

Elizabeth will come to her senses and ditch Lucas for Nathan

A new love. A spunky woman who goes after him.

No clue!

Probably a love story with Faith, but I don’t like that direction if they decide to go that way.

Not to be a leading man and take the focus off of Elizabeth.

Probably a new love interest. I didn't catch that he could potentially end up with Faith at first, but I'm down for it as long as they can make it work. They've both been left behind by the people they love, that would make for an interesting narrative at least.

They probably will pair him up with a female character, but I think he should stay single and continue to focus on raising Allie.

Hopefully they don't go the Faith route, but I have a feeling they might.

A good Mountie storyline with the Pinkertons etc. I'd like to see Allie's Dad again too.

Ehhh they'll probably put him with Faith which I'm not into at all.

A spin-off I hope

Not sure, I felt he belonged with Elizabeth all along.

Who knows. I don’t trust the show runners anymore.

Faith and challenges raising ally

Hopefully leave Hope Valley and leave that shit show. I’m not really buying the writers saying they have exciting things for him. They have mislead the viewers too long. It’s a ploy to keep the viewers watching the show. It’s all about covering their butt right now and try to keep the ratings.

I don’t know. I won’t be returning to watch

Grief.

Faith

I think Elizabeth has trouble w/Lucas and runs back to Nathan realizing that she made a mistake.  A blended family would have been a good storyline.

I don’t know, but it better be good!

Don’t know

I would hope that he would be allowed to at least go on an actual date with someone before he is over looked and not even given a chance at love. That the decision to whether he is able to love and be loved is not determined by the uniform he is wearing but rather by the quality of the man wearing the uniform.

🤔

Mourning the loss of Elizabeth and then finding a new love interest, hopefully successfully

Something amazing I hope but the writers are so terrible I do wonder if they can

good things

I hope love

No idea.

Exploring being a father to Allie, An ACTUAL love interest, probably more career - mountie vs “normal” life thinking

I hope that Elizabeth and Lucas break up when she realizes how bad he is. Nathan loves Elizabeth and was NEVER given the chance to even have one dinner date with her. Elizabeth needs to have an opportunity to see him now for the incredible man that he is.

New love interest, new job maybe?

Probably a romance for Allie he has to handle?

Probably to put him up with Faith...

I hope something fantastic after the shocking story-telling he has had to endure this season.  I love him and Allie, and him and Bill, and feel there is great potential there.

I hope something good for what he's endured

Action storylines

At this point have no idea.

hopefully something fun, Kevin is a funny guy and they should take advantage of that

Downplaying his role as a “police” figure

I think they will put him with Faith, but I hope not.

New love interest

I hope that he will have as important a role as before (like, for example, the one Abigail had before she left) and that he meets a new love interest.

Faith

Nathan needs some stories with humor and adventure but they will probably focus on his romance next.

Bigger mountie related stories, new love interest perhaps

Fiona, Fiona fiona

Dealing with losing Elizabeth him and faith will bond over heartache and eventually become a couple he will have some problems taking ally as she continues to get older maybe a new aspect of his job being a Mountie

Also dont care what they do because anything after this point will never make up for the way they screwed his character over.  They'll probably write him with Faith which we all know makes zero sense. I would hope someone new comes along for him to love him the way he deserves but I dont think that will happen.  He'll have problems with the Pinkertons probably.

I hope some happiness for a change

They have already telegraphed that Faith will latch on to him. Yuck, what a consolation prize.

nothing

Probably some action stuff.

He will emerge as the strong wonderful Person he is.  He will be involved with the Pinkertons storyline.  He will find a new love and be happy

Back stab his character again

Promotion and a new mom for Allie.

Death

I hope someone new comes in and adores him.

I'm sure they'll rush a love interest for him as a consolation prize while also still trying to shove Elizabeth into his life as a "friend".

Life with Allie

Don't know with these writers

New love interest

Not sure

To be with Elizabeth that's what i want to keep watching

Saving the town from the Pinkertons. Dealing with bill and the mine. Making new friends and being admired by everyone including l&e. More sweet lessons with Allie (helping her in math) and possibly the aftermath of Dillon coming out. That could be a good opportunity to have him lean on someone new. I’d like Allie to put E in her place when she oversteps her involvement in N&A life since we know she will. It’ll show A maturing as a 14-15 y/o and serve E a much needed amount of humble pie after the crap she pulled with them in S7&8. Please no rushed friendship with e or l like give the guy a season and also make them the uncomfortable ones. He deserves to hold his head high. I would love for him to tell E he’s more than his uniform and it’s unfortunate she never tried to see that.

Don't no

A new girlfriend

He finally loses the chip from his shoulder

Not sure yet, a town mystery maybe, time him to heal with what happened.

He will uncover Lucas' shady ways.

Wrangling with the Pinkertons

No idea

Probably nothing to good

I do not want to Know. Not interested in the show anymore

I have no idea. I really can't imagine him with anyone but Elizabeth

Don't know but they did him wrong with Elizabeth's decision. She left Hamilton because of the life-style Lucas has. JUST DOESN'T FIT!!!!!!

another love

Probably more Allie and Mounties related things, and hopefully a nice, good love interest. I am really hoping they'll keep Elisabeth away from him for at least one season. The last thing we all need is her being all up in his business again with Allie and goodness forbid his new love interest #LEAVENATHANALONE (sorry, couldn't help it)

Hopefully finding love and happiness with someone who makes Elizabeth feel she made a big mistake.

j'espère juste qu'ils ne minimisent pas le temps de presence à l'écran de son personnage, qu'ils arrêteront de mal le traiter pour rien et qu'il lui arrivera que de bonnes choses

I don’t care enough to speculate.

Something lame.

Something lame.

No idea. They've just wasted the family Allie, baby Jack, Elizabeth and him already were.

sideling mountie buisness

I hope he finds true love.

A new love, but I hope they don't pair him up with Faith. More mountie stuff.

New love.  His continuing story with Ally.  More examples of his nobility, if they are smart.

If I were Kevin I don't know if I'd want to stay.

Probably another beating.

I would love to see Nathan and Fiona get together as a couple I think they would be awesome together

Romance with faith problems with ally’s father struggling with ally growing up and maybe him getting hurt on a mission.

That Nathan's heart will heal and that he will fall in love with a new beautiful godly woman coming to Hope Valley (A new teacher that can teach special needs?)  Continue to build the strong relationship with Allie and be an excellent dad.

new love

They'd better have an EPIC love story for him!

He needs to find someone NEW so when Elizabeth comes back it's too LATE!!  Faith and Nathan NO WAY!! You can't just fall out of love with someone just like that.

Challenges  in him being a Mountie . I really hope that he has a good storyline and has some romance with faith and is happy in his life and not despressed with Lucas and Elizabeth being a couple.

For Nathan, we should see him slowly healing from his heartbreak, and fully finding his place in the community beyond Elizabeth. Definitely more of him and Allie as a family. I expect our Mountie will become involved with whatever is going on with the potential new factory and the Pinkertons hanging around. No guesses as to what he and John Tinker have in store exactly, but I hope it’s good! As this is a Hallmark show, they probably can’t bear to leave a main character single for too long, so they’ll probably start setting up a new love for him, but hopefully not too soon.

Continue to be a parent to Allie and have a new love interest.

Lessening of his prominence on the show

What did you love about this season?

Well, I liked Nathan’s parts

that they attempted to fill some of the holes in plots and that they gave everyone something meaningful to do.  Ned and Florence were great.  Loved meeting the Canfields.

I was happy with the season up until the finale. I loved the thought of Elizabeth and Nathan going through everything to make their relationship stronger. Now it seems pointless. They kept kicking Nathan while he was down and he never got a fair chance

Allie and nathan

References to Henrigail.

Seeing the town become more busy and lively I guess

That Nathan was going to end up with Elizabeth.

I also loved the Canfields and the bigger storylines for minor characters.

Nothing at this point, it’s all tainted by garbage finale

Too rushed and not written well

There were more stories with other people

The ensemble as a whole....

The Coulters, Henry and Christopher, the Canfields, Florence and Ned, and Hickam and Fiona.

The Nathan / Allie storyline.

Jack Jr, Elizabeth and Jack Sr Photo

Absolutely nothing. It was blasphemy. My favorite moment was Either the Fort Clay argument at Bills uniform event thing, or Allie sticking it to Mrs. Thornton by ripping up the dinner invitation in front of her face in the school house. I like any suffering Elizabeth went through and Lucas.

Some things that were left hanging from prior seasons were resolved. The Canfield family- it was nice to see faith-related things being more included in the show again like in earlier seasons. Florence and Ned were adorable. Mike and Fiona were pretty cute together too- love how they encourage each other to be their best!

Not much but Nathan as a character

The Canfields, Ned and Florence, Rosemary and the paper, and the ending of the triangle

Nathan's smile.

Nothing

Florence and Ned

The Canfields and  the bell even though Lee should have is back jam when he lifted the bell.

The Nathan/Elizabeth scenes

Allie's adoption. Joseph Canfield becoming the new minister.

Florence and Ned’s romance, Lee’s one liners, Molly’s pursuit of Bill, when Elizabeth thought she was holding Lucas’ hands but it was actually Nathan

I loved the Nathan/Elizabeth story of getting over fear and do what you are afraid to do theme, until it all went sideways in the last 20mins!!!!!

Fiona and Mike

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary and Lee

The end of the triangle

The Canfield's.They are a breath of fresh air. I love that they love God, their family, and others. Ned and Florence was a beautiful love story. Bill and Molly. Molly giving her dress to Florence, Fiona adventures, Nathan and Allie's stories, Rosemary and Lee, and every minute of every Canfield.

Relationships - Fiona and Hickam, Allie and Nathan, Henry and Christopher. Joseph becoming the pastor. Nathan’s character growth.

The Canfields, Nathan’s storyline( even though nothing went his way he was always noble and true), Rosemary and Lee as always

I liked Hickam getting more story. I liked Rosemary starting the paper. I liked Minnie working at the restaurant.

Elizabeth finding love with Lucas

Allie and Nathan. Getting to see some of the fun side of Nathan.

Nathan and Allie. I liked Elizabeth with them too until the ending.

Seeing Nathan and Allie. Canfields. Mike and Fiona. Ned and Florence. Bill and Molly. Lee and Rosemary. So I guess the point is the attention on the other characters and couples. I think I enjoy the new couples just because we finally got to know two more side characters each time.

Nathan & Allie.

Everything BUT the annoying love triangle!

All the Lucas and Elizabeth dates, almost kiss in the rain ,  and the finale was the best episode of the entire series, there kisses were enchanting

Nathan

Humor, Ned and Flo, finding out Nathan's involvement with Jack finally. I thought Kevin did a magnificent job  and I loved seeing Jaeda shine- she is so talented. I loved Henry and Christopher and the positive impact of Rachel. My personal quote favorite: "Go stuff your trout!"

Nathan's face. Rosemary and Lee, the Canfields, Ned and Florence's wedding.

The triangle  Rachel and chrispthoher  can fields rosemarys paper

Anytime Henry referenced Abigail and telling stories about ALL the characters, not just Elizabeth. I like the whole ensemble cast feel. This season did keep me engaged, I always tuned in when it aired.

The Canfields arriving, Henry mentioning Abigail, and Nathan and Allie - because Kevin McGarry and Jaeda Lily Miller are incredible actors with fantastic chemistry.

I really loved seeing more storylines introduced with the other characters and then for the most part developing those storylines. I adore Ned & Florence, I thought their wedding episode was so sweet, and I think they will bring a dynamic as a couple that will be fun to watch. I like how they have such a rapport together and with the mercantile being the center of town, I'll enjoy seeing more of them next season. I loved the edition of the Canfield family, both Angela and Cooper are so sweet and are great additions as HV kids. And Minnie and Joseph quickly turned into some of my faves this season too! I love them as a couple and I love them building relationships with the others, the Lee & Joseph friendship was definitely one of my favorite things this season. And Minnie is such a soft-spoken badass, I would listen to her read an audiobook all day long haha. I enjoyed learning more about Henry with the addition of Christopher, I definitely liked the depth their scenes brought. Any time my faves Lee & Rosemary were in a scene together was a win for me. I liked the crush developing between Allie & Robert too, v cute. Overall, I really enjoyed the new relationships that were formed and the new additions that were brought in, I think it paved the way for a number of new stories that I will be excited to see play out.

Fiona and the Canfields were the best storylines this season.

Lucas and Elizabeth are finally together.

Lucas' character is a real gentleman.

Martin Cummins was phenomenal, and I loved the whole Christopher story, including him and Rachel, and Henry reflecting on Abigail and being there for Ned. Joseph and Lee’s friendship is great. Loved Rosemary finding a new career. And Robert!

I would’ve liked Clare and Jesse struggling if they handled it better. I liked the general structure they began of drawing out stories and slowly unpeeling their layers but they set up too many in every episode and didn’t follow through well. If they can tighten that structure, it would be great.

Angst, Henry, The wedding, etc. (triangle ending too)

Allie and Nathan's cute family, Fiona and her interactions with Mike, Rosemary and the newspaper thing, flirty Molly and Bill

The Canfield family! I adored them they are so sweet and I really hope we see more of them next season!

Nathan and Allie

Nathan and Allie's adoption also the Canfields

Joesphs family and the return of faith to Hope valley! I also loved Lee and Rosemary’s relationship.

Lee and Rosemary were my favorites. I basically watched this entire season for them and Nathan and Allie. Ned and Florence were fun to watch as well.

Ned and Florence and the Canfields

Carson and Faith's conflict was honestly really compelling to me, and I'm fine with Carson leaving as well. The theme of calling was also really good in my opinion. I also loved Rosemary in general. She's my favorite character and I love watching her grow throughout the whole show.

I was very happy to see more representation on screen. The Canfields brought representation for POC and people who are blind. I would like to see more diversity in the cast.

I really liked the Canfields. They brought a nice dynamic to the show. As always, Rosemary and Lee were my favorites. As far as I'm concerned, they're the heart and soul of the show. Ned and Florence's wedding was nice too.

The Canfields. Lee & Rosie and Rachel. Henry and his son. Bill & Molly. Ned & Florence. Mike & Fiona.

Everything except the love triangle! The love triangle was one of the worst things I've seen on television (even before the finale). Everything but the love triangle was better than anything we've gotten since season four. Christopher, Henry, and Rachel were my favorites of the season. Loved all the stuff surrounding those characters. Also Fiona and Mike are really becoming great!

Allie & Robert

Allie's adoption was finalized.

Mike and Fiona

Triangle Clara and Jesse faith becoming a doctor Nathan adopting ally Elizabeth’s book Lucas and Elizabeth  kiss

Nothing. It made me mad.

Nothing

Nathan and Allie, Henry and Christopher.

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary — and Lee.  But the season writing was not good - need more dramatic things happening like - in past seasons.  It was almost goofy dialogue- the Fiona barber shop thing was stupid too — boring!  What happened to the blacksmith that liked her????

Canfield’s, FloYo wedding

Allie and Nathan

I loved the fact that Rosemary was patient with Elizabeth even though she didn’t deserve to be treated like she was by her.

More episodes

Glad to see Elizabeth be happy, at least for now. Also they have a number of different story lines that they can play with and help some other characters share the limelight, like Lee and Rosemary

The Canfields

fiona

Nathan and Allie

Aside from the gutsy decision to go with the less outwardly popular pairing? (I applaud it) I loved the new characters (Canfields/Christopher not Rachel) and seeing more of Nathan and Lucas outside of the triangle

Seeing Nathan get set free from his guilt and finding his voice to declare his love to Elizabeth and watching Elizabeth always pursuing him. After loving Elizabeth so much, it is not right to try to set him up with someone else.

Learning more about Henry and watching Florence and Ned get married!!

Nathan Grant

The Canfields

Fiona is a fabulous character, I really enjoy the dynamic she has brought to the valley.   I have always loved Mike, so those two are always a joy.  Always love Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan and Allie.  Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned.  Robert.  

The multiple storyline being dived into more

Lucas

Not able to come up with a positive answer at this point.

The Canfields, the angst of the love triangle - it felt more realistic then this show has in the past, with people making mistakes and trying to find their way.  For anyone who has ever had strong feelings for two people at the same time, there was a realism in the way the writers handled it with the shifting feelings, the questions about what and who is right, the missteps and the emotional angst.  The last two scenes of the finale (writers, actors, setting, humor) were pure magic.   Oh yeah  - Ned and Florence!!

Watching anything with Nathan and Allie

The Canfields

Scenes between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan/Allie relationship and her adoption

Not much

Rosemary starting the newspaper!!!!

Ned and Florence, Allie and Nathan

Lucas

Lucas and Elizabeth

I loved everything having to do with Nathan and Allie.  I just wanted E and N together and to join their families into one. It would have been beautiful.

Seeing Nathan and Allie's relationship deepen

Not much, it was all over the place. I can't believe how much I've come to dislike the main character.

Not much. It has gone on a different path.

The Canfields

The Canfields were lovely, Bill was better-written, Henry had amazing scenes.

Nothing

Lee & Rosemary.  Looking over your lists of major/minor storylines, I realized I didn't really enjoy any of those storylines. But I always enjoy when Lee and Rosemary are on screen.

Allie and Nathan

Nothing, the finale ruined the whole season.

I loved the Canfields. Always love Rosie and Lee scenes. I am enjoying that the show is becoming more of an ensemble rather than focusing on just a few main characters.

I loved the addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie.

The Canfield and the new side they brought

Nathan and Allie. Canfields.

Nathan

Chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth

Nathan and Ally

Disappointed

Nathan and Allie, Bill being Bill, FloYo, Henry, The Canfields

Disappointed

Elizabeth choosing Lucas in the end.

Nathan with Allie

To me each character was given the chance to grow and was able to work on things in their life.  I enjoyed the new writing. It made the show better to me.

Bill and Molly. They were so cute. And new characters/family.

Rosemary’s journey to find a new hobby

Canfield family

Fiona, the Canfield, Nathan & Allie

Lee and rosemary and the Canfields

Nathan and Elizabeth chemistry

The Canfields, Fiona and Lee and  Rosemary

The Canfield's and Rosemary

End of season.

Honestly, Allie's scene at Nathan's inquiry was the best thing of the season. I loved all their story lines, I'm ready for a whole season about them.

Most of it except the last episode.

the characters of Nathan and Allie

Ned & Florence

Nothing

The build up to her choosing Nathan... oh wait.

Fiona I love, Lee and Rosemary I love always

the canfields and nathan and allie

Rosemary and Lee's story line.

Not much.

Nathan's nobility, Ally, Ned and Flo, and the Canfields, especially their faith aspect.

I still think the last scene of the second episode was the strongest scene this show has ever got.

The Grant Family.

I really loved the additional episodes and hope they approve at least the same number or more next season.

Lucas and Elizabeth dates Clara and Jessie’s struggles the barbershop opening and Lucas and Elizabeth kissing and her finally choosing him.

Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Nathan and Allie, the Canfields.

ned & Florence,  the end of the triangle, robert at the babysitter, Canfield life lessons

Nathan adopting Allie and everything about their relationship, hearing Henry talk about Abigail, seeing Ned & Florence come together, cute Robert becoming a part of "adult" Hope Valley, Lee & Rosemary doing absolutely anything.

Not Much Elizabeth is not a good character anymore.

Nathan and ally Ned and Florence Elizabeth and Lucas I’m glad the triangle is over and everyone can move forward with there lives

The Canfields! They were such a welcome addition. I also loved Florence, the Florence and Ned wedding, Elizabeth and Lucas as a couple. And this was a pretty good season for Henry! Happy to see Faith back too. I also appreciated that there were more storylines that lasted more than an episode or two and it felt like a coherent season. It wasn’t exactly fantastic, but I don’t expect that of When Calls the Heart and I quite liked the season overall.

The addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie

What did you miss this season?  What could there have been more of?

Common sense

Lee and Rosemary!  Not enough of them.

Dates with Nathan

Nice Elizabeth

Um...more Henrigail.

Emotion. I feel like other than the stuff with Nathan and Elizabeth there were no other instances of real raw emotion

A Kevin McGarry shirtless scene. Also I missed Bill. I felt like he had very little to do this year.

Elizabeth getting called on her shitty behavior

Deeper story lines

Lee and Rosemary

I did wish Allie had called Nathan dad at least once

That they dropped the ball on Rosie wanting a child

I think Lee and Rosemary could have gotten where they ended up in the season finale half way through the season. I think that would have been nice.

Nathan x Elizabeth. She didn’t even have a rain check dinner she promised him.

More of Jack Sr Mentions, but also Elizabeth not hiding what she is really feeling

Nathan and Elizabeth and their little family with Allie and Jack. I will never forgive the robbery of such happiness.

The kids in the schoolhouse.

Little Jack, more of the kids, school, L and R

more time spent on few stories - too much jumping around and not enough substance

more time with the individual characters, fewer chopped up plots

Elizbeth acting as a mother first.  She should be concerned who would be an outstanding father/role model for Jack.

A date between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Reality.

We needed more Lee and Rosemary, and I really missed the kids bc of Covid.

Some common sense maybe??? A good ending to the season maybe???

better writing and the Elizabeth that left everything she knew to make her way in a new place.

Heart warming wholesome moments. They were few and far between.

More school scenes

Interaction with little Ja  CB k

The kids. I missed Opal.

More schoolhouse scenes

More Bill, Rosemary, Lee, Molly, Henry

Substance.

I missed Lee & Rosemary! It felt like they barely got screen time. And then truly if Elizabeth & Lucas were going to end up together I would have liked to see their actual love story build, instead of her dating him while staring at Nathan the whole time, which is what we got.

More Rosemary and Lee; them adopting or having a baby

But lightheartedness. The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Truth I missed Elizabeth and Nathan flirting.

Opal!! I feel like we needed another girls sleepover night or camping trip. It feels like we barely saw the kids aside from Allie crushing on Robert. There were no festivals or fairs. It was a bland summer for the kids.

Nathan finding happiness with Elizabeth.

Nothing really

Rosemary having a baby, Henry with oil business, jack and Lucas scenes, faith working in the infirmary , Elizabeth’s book .

Nathan

They dropped Nathan's chances at being with Elizabeth after he cried out his love for her and we should have seen him get more of a chance. Really wanted to see Allie more and less of Elizabeth. Hoped to see more of Fiona, too as she is comical playing off Hickam. Show really veered off course-[ writers kind of dropped stuff in and out on a whim and I thought the show lacked connection between storys and characters over time. Lots of whiplash- Canfields just moved in to a cabin then almost immediately sold it. Rachel was dropped in then all of a sudden leaves to celebrate a birthday. All of a sudden newlywed Ned applies for a bandaid patent! What the hell???

Better writing.

I didn’t miss anything. More of the hope valley children

Some type of villain. There was no crisis, no major overarching storyline aside from the love triangle. It overtook the whole season. Thought I was watching The Bachelorette for a second.

The love triangle was set up to bring Elizabeth and Nathan together - and don’t tell me they weren’t in love, Brian Bird, you literally spend 3 seasons showing them getting closer, feeling physically affected by being around each other, protecting each other, and becoming more open and you literally had Elizabeth seek him out and draw him in over and over again, getting closer to Allie as a mother figure in the process. Don’t tell me that’s not what a woman in love does for someone she loves, both romantically and deeply. And no resolution for ALLIE: Elizabeth telling Nathan to pass a message to Allie in that rejection scene, not even seeking Allie out to apologize? Is that somehow supposed to make that little girl feel better?! Treating Allie, her beloved student, like some insignificant afterthought, after everything Allie’s been through, just because she realized she’s in love with Lucas? Unbelievable. So yeah, sorry not sorry but I’m sore and pissed off, I feel manipulated and I’m angry. I did not buy Elizabeth’s sudden desperation to find Lucas, I did not buy that kiss or that she would want to spend a lifetime with him. The storyline literally did not support this ending at all. Even if I did want Elizabeth with Lucas I would feel shafted because their interactions were so damn surface-level the entire season. Here’s a replica of Elizabeth and Lucas’s backyard date conversation:  Elizabeth: *wears a saloon-worthy, not flattering, potentially scandalous dress*  Lucas: Did I tell you how beautiful you look tonight?  Elizabeth: yeah you mentioned it a few times  Lucas: do you know how happy I am to be with you?  Elizabeth: yeah...you said. Me too I guess. Oh and by the way, sorry about baby Jack, sorry he exists, and that we had to have dinner in my backyard  Lucas: leave the dishes, I’ll have Gustave my slave come and collect them. Tonight should be about us  Elizabeth: ... *crickets* *light hand holding*

So for season 8? I wanted more of Nathan and Elizabeth getting together I guess.

Obviously I am bummed about the lack of a baby Coulter this season, but the interview with Kavan & Pascale has made me hopeful it will happen next season. Even with the lack of a baby for them, I was disappointed with the whole Rachel thing because they barely spent any time "parenting her". She spent more time with Christopher that we saw on screen than she did with either Lee or Rosemary, and every scene they were in together was pretty much spoiled in the trailer for that episode, so that was a let down for me. I would have liked to see them actually spend some time with her or watch them struggle with parenting her. I always want more of them in general too, but I do feel like they got pushed to the side this season to make room for the triangle and other stories to play out. I'm really hoping for more of them next season, especially as it seems as though their journey to parenthood is finally in the cards. I also would have liked to see more of the HV kids this season, I did enjoy most of the scenes with the kids.

Elizabeth and the school children.

Rosemary and Lee were tired and wasted for most of the season, needed more of their fun. School scenes - I wish they would’ve tried to do something outside. More stories that weren’t romance. (And you didn’t ask but I could use way less of Elizabeth dramatically stopping and gasping.)

Kid scenes. There could be more kid scenes and unlikely interactions among all the main cast.

Elizabeth at least giving a chance to Nathan

There could’ve been more good and consistent storytelling lmao

Little Jack

Drop the triangle mid way and let the focus go back to HV

More time for Elizabeth to grieve and process. Would have loved to see her more in her role as a mother.

More Nathan and Elizabeth. It felt like they never gave Nathan a chance.

Nathan and Elizabeth going to dinner and spending time together.

More development for Lucas would have been really nice. Not that he wasn't present enough, but I feel like he took a back seat for his character development, growth, insight, etc. Also, if they focused on him more, especially in relation to Elizabeth, her choice would've made more sense to me.

I missed a certain simplicity which was evident in other seasons. I often felt that there was too much going on and that weakened the storylines since there was only so much time for each one.

More focus on the other characters and less on the love triangle.

Gah, so much screentime was wasted on the love triangle. I miss the time we could have gotten exploring other stories.

Better story telling.  It was boring, frankly

Elizabeth interacting  a lot with Little Jack and falling in love with Nathan like it should have been.

Mike and Fiona. I hated that she was gone for so long.

The magic that we saw in the earlier seasons. It’s too far from the books. They should have just replaced Jacks character with another actor.

More in depth storylines

Better writing.

Continuity

Good story lines, more  serious stories - less fluff / silly stories, —-and Elizabeth - disappointed in her decision— and where the show is going with her character. Acting is just limited to not engaging with the characters ....dialogue not deep enough.

The kids and school scenes. Covid, I know, but I did miss them!

Not sure!!

Not much comes to mind

Meaningful stuff for the Coulters

Rosemary and Elizabeth

Missed the Teacher Elizabeth scenes

There could have been some more opportunities to see Nathan have a chance to pursue Elizabeth. There could have been more of Elizabeth taking her own advice to drop her fears (of marrying another mountie) in order to allow Nathan to shine for himself. They did have chemistry. I wish I would have seen LESS of Lucas trying to charm Elizabeth with extravagant gifts and the extremely unrealistic scenarios he created to win her heart (so many candles, so many lanterns in the sky, etc.)

More Lee/Rosemary family focus

Nathan actually having a chance to prove himself to Elizabeth

Oh, that is a hard one to answer right now, it might come off as bitter.  Actual consistency to ensure the past 3 years hasn't felt like it has been for nothing.  Clarity around some of the characters and their choices (and I am not just talking about the triangle), respect for the characters in the writing.  Need I go on.  

As cheesy as it is to say, more heartfelt moments. Because they did so much, felt as though I couldn't appreciate singular storyline as in depth as I normally do

Lee and Rosemary

No answer

a baby for the Coulters, missed the kids and little Jack but I get why

Rational writing

I miss the short story arcs where they focus on a few characters and tell a complete story in one or two episodes instead of having every character’s story stretch out for the whole season.

Depth of conversation

More Rosemary and Lee

Better writing

More school time with Elizabeth and.her students, but I understand the restrictions.

More harmony, there was so much conflict!

Josie Bassett as a love interest for Bill

I wish Rosemary would have found out she was pregnant Elizabeth would have made her choice when she and Lucas were in the rain and Jesse and Clara wouldn’t have had problems

Not enough screentime for our main character Elizabeth. Things havent been centered around her for a long time and I dont think that will ever change. More heart to heart conversations that are actually real and meaningful without being cringey and forced.  The show also never replaced the vacancy of Abigail's character. She was the glue that held the whole town together and offered sound advice. We dont have anyone like that anymore

I missed story lines with the school children.

gee, i dont know, ACTUAL PLOT?

Meaningful scenes for Jesse and Clara, Lee and Rosemary, and possibly Fiona.

The storylines were awful ad choppy.  

I missed the triangle that was supposed to play out.  Instead we got Elizabeth dating one man and choosing to be with that man in the finale.

Need a better writer

Intelligent dialogue with meaning and substance.  Written for an 5 yr. old.

Smart characters

More Rosie and Lee scenes

Always more Henry.

I would have liked to see someone care about Nathan. I wish he'd interacted with more people and not just in his role as mountie; same with Allie. I want to see her have more adult female support instead of just Elizabeth.

The school

Elizabeth and Nathan

Actual dates between Nathan and Elzaibeth

Kids

Elizabeth and Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary. There could have also been more completed storylines they honestly made so much cut short or unclear.

Elizabeth and nathan

it's all good.

Should have been more depth for Lucas with Elizabeth

More of actually giving Nathan a chance instead of constantly pushing him away. It wasn't really a love triangle.

Character development

better writing

I wish there was more Lee & Rosemary.

Heartwarming wholesome stories

Are you kidding?

More development of Nathan's character

Development of Nathan's character

Abigail

As I said earlier, I think they could have dug deeper into the adoption/ biological father of Allie, because it would have been a lot more interesting than some out of the blue story lines (Coff coff Jesse's and Clara's money coff coff)

Seeing Nathan and Elizabeth on a real date.  

a smoother transition to succeed in understanding the final choice of this false love triangle

Bill & Molly comical scenes

Anyone and everyone other than this triangle.

Broken storylines. What was the point of Allie’s dad? The Pinkertons? Wyman? Mentioning Abigail? Even Rachel and Christopher if they never return to HV? I get cliffhangers but they dropped stories or made storylines feel pointless.

the children

Interaction and actual dates with Nathan and Elizabeth where she got to know him so she didn't think of him as Jack 2.0.

A better sense of community.

Everything that Alfonso Moreno did: a clear, focused, measured, believable story arc.

Nathan and Elizabeth to be given a chance. More logic and less crazy, in what universe does the writing of the finale make ANY sense.

I missed seeing any thought process in the writing....To late for anything more.

I would love to see a little more action and adventure or maybe a mystery

Missed the well written story telling like Moreno's.Tinker and producer's lack of integrity to mislead and get fans fight against each other, instead of building a good story to justify why the choice was made at the end.

I missed Jesse & Clara being happy.  I always miss Abigail. I missed Faith & Carson in sync. i missed the romance I anticipated between Elizabeth & Nathan.

The essence of Hope Valley is gone. Less focus on the love triangle more about other characters, family community. Elizabeth is not NICE

Though they never tend to be my favourite storylines, I actually missed being in the classroom more.

Could have done with more Canfield family stuff.

I know she was there, but it didn’t feel like there was enough Rosemary (never is tbh).

I always want more of the Florence and Fiona friendship specifically, as well as all of the female friendships. There were some lovely moments this season, but I’d still like more.

I understand they rushed the resolution so they could save it for the finale, but I would have preferred way more of Elizabeth and Nathan each dealing with Jack’s death and more time spent on settling their feelings for each other.

I wanted more of Rosemary and Lee's story with infertility. I'm pretty neutral on this season.

Journaling

What do you hope to see in season 9?

🤷‍♀️

Maybe but only if they make Nathan a main character the same as Elizabeth

Kindness

Henrigail. I'm copying and pasting at this point.

More of the kids!!

Lee and Rosemary having a child! More Henry! And a Kevin McGarry shirtless scene, lol.

Absolutely nothing

Better story lines

More stories for all the cast

more stories that involved multiple characters (and characters that don’t interact as much to interact/form new and unique relationships)

I won't be watching Season 9.

An apology from TPTB.

Lucas true dark and evil side

Nothing. I’m not watching blasphemy.

Lee and Rosemary become parents. A fun new love interest for Nathan. Mike and Fiona dating.

For it not to happen. Take me back to season 7 ending

new love and adventures for Nathan, a baby for Lee and Rosemary, fun and challenging love for Elizabeth and Lucas

Honesty, no more bait and switch just for ratings

I won't watch it.  After 8 seasons it sickened me to see Lucas as the pick when he is not a father figure or role model.  So unlike a moral mother to not look at a person's interaction with your child first when choosing a partner.  

Less scenes between Elizabeth and Lucas since she found her love focus the season on Nathan finding his

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Nothing. I'm moving on to greener pastures.

I would like to see Rosemary and Lee finally have a baby or adopt, Elizabeth and Lucas break up or just leave town so I don’t have to watch them make out, Nathan find a better love, and Lee as mayor take on Wyman Walden and the Pinkertons.

Elizabeth realizing that she actually loves Nathan and Lee and rosemary surprise pregnancy or adoption.

I do not care what happens.  

Elizabeth/writers/ producers realizing they are incredibly stupid. Apologizing and Nathan NOT taking her back. She needs to be alone and probably miserable. I think that’s what the show and she deserves. They’ve ruined it. I’m gone.

Less soap opera

No more triangles

Nathan finds true love. Allie getting an amazing Mother. The Canfield's (every minute of every Canfield). Rosemary and Lee. Bill and Molly. Clara and Jesse maturing. Every minute of Nathan and Allie. The kids. Ned and Florence enjoying married life and seeing him strike it rich. Lee for Mayor. Henry coming back. Mike and Fiona. Faith being a Doctor.

Healing and happiness for Nathan after getting smacked around in Season 8

A baby for Rosemary and Lee, Henry and Abigail to return together, Carson to come back and propose to Faith because she obviously does love him and want him to stay, an amazing newcomer to fall head over heels for Nathan

A cohesive storyline!

Rosemary and Lee have a baby

The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Allie and Nathan prominence in the community and storylines. Lucas and Elizabeth to go on an extended international book tour.

Lee and Rosemary having kids finally!!!! Mayor election!

I won't be watching anymore.

A storyline that doesn't screw Nathan over.  Rosemary/Lee blessed with a family. Less Elizabeth/Lucas kissing scenes. More focus on other characters.

Rosemary pregnant,faith and Nathan getting closer, more of Nathan being a Mountie,jack and Lucas bonding, Lucas and Elizabeth dates and kissing , Lucas proposing .

Nathan

I already cancelled Hallmark first thing this morning. The writers and showrunners have no credibility for me any longer, and I did not make my decision based on the triangle alone.

More focus on characters not named Elizabeth.

Henry and Abigail  rosemarys paper lee for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas getting closer Nathan finding someone

I want Henry and Abigail to come back and see how that relationship plays out. I like the show but what got me excited was there relationship. Love enemies to lovers stories play out. I also hope they bring back Lori. Though she definitely does not need to be such a huge part of the show as she once was.  

NOT Faith with Nathan.

Minnie Canfield becoming more a part of the town community with her fabulous boldness and integrity. I really love her.

Allie and Nathan having some incredible adoptive father-daughter laughter and tears moments, like her teasing him, him teasing her, and them going on trips together, just ALL Nathan and Allie. They deserve a spin-off. They are a great father-daughter love story. Way better than the romantic one.

Elizabeth and Lucas go on a very long trip to Europe together and season 9 is all about Hope Valley without them.

Fiona doing everything she does with boldness and fun, cause she is fantastic. Fiona getting into some real schemes!

Henry brings Abigail back.

First and foremost a little Coulter. I'll be interested to see how Rosemary's paper and hopefully Mayor Lee are doing haha. Definitely more of the friendship b/w the women, I love Florence & Molly as well as Fiona & Clara & Faith. More Nathan & Allie, and hopefully Nathan enjoying himself and meeting someone new. More of the Canfields.

Better writing

Less stressful situations. Mr. Canfield becoming the town's preacher. So happy that Hope Valley will have a preacher. Someone the town people can go to with their problems. Only good can come from putting faith back into the show. Thank you.

Henry and Abigail in some form; Rosemary being a tenacious journalist; real relationship  work and personalities for Jesse and Clara; a fun mayoral race; the town coming together again for important things unlike the complete lack of momentum this season from Jesse being lost or the rig exploding; and just get rid of Faith. Bring back Dottie or something.

Nathan and Allie, Nathan Nathan and Elizabeth’s friendship, Nathan and Lucas getting along, Nathan moving on from Elizabeth, Lee and Rosemary talk about kids, and more Canfields.

A well-written storyline for Nathan, not him just as a background town mountie popping if needed sometimes

more happiness!!! Obv I still want drama but also it’s my comfort show so I just want to watch it and not be yelling at Elizabeth and other characters the whole time lol.

Elizabeth and Nathan - together!

Less commercials

Won’t be watching, but best wishes to the show!

I would like to see Abigail return, and have Lee and  Rosemary somehow have a kid, though I’m not confident that either of those things will happen. I’m not sure if I’ll tune into season 9, we’ll see.

Rosemary and Lee finally starting a family, and for anything good to happen to Nathan whether it's above interest or something else. He suffered this season, he deserves good things to come his way.

I hope to see more character development. I would especially like to learn more about Nathan and Lucas now that the decision is made. I want them to be more than suitors for Elizabeth. I would also like to see them become friends. If Nathan must have a love interest, I would be interested in a woman of color being casted for the role. Also, even though it would be nice to see Rosemary and Lee have a baby, I think it would be really interesting to have them adopt a child or two (siblings).

Up until a little while ago, I was very opposed to the thought of Abigail returning. I wouldn't put it past them, and if Gowan isn't gone forever, it could be an interesting plot. (She would need to take on a less involved role, and not sure Loughlin would agree with that)

I want Henry back (don't care if it's with or without Abigail). Lee & Rosie to have a baby (don't care how). Nathan (& Allie) to have a good storyline and to be happy.

I just want to see Lucas and Elizabeth break up. I cannot hammer home enough how painful that final scene was. If this is how their relationship is going to be, I'm barely going to survive.

Abigail

Elizabeth comes to realize she is indeed in love with Nathan when she sees how taken Little Jack is with him.  Little Jack never warms up to Lucas...ever.

I’m not watching, so I don’t care.

Henry’s happiness ally and Nathan scenes more Elizabeth and Lucas dating and an  engagement   and nick ham oil buisness

It should be the last season. The writers deserve to be unemployed for taking the series to this point.

Not watching season 9

Don’t care.

Nothing

Elizabeth - goes to Nathan — bring up happy with Lucas —- so they can be together (hey, they guy had more emotion than Lucas !!

I’ll wait to watch. Follow along on social media to make sure they don’t massacre any other storylines first.

Elizabeth and Lucas break up

Nathan to find his true love and Rosemary and Lee to start a family.

Elizabeth and Lucas to be married, Rosemary and Lee addressing the baby question and what happens with Henry trying to start with a clean slate

Better plotlines for the Coulters and the return of Henry

Henry and Abigail

A continuation of the stories already set up.

The survey did not give me an opportunity to say that Nathan needs to STILL get together with Elizabeth, so I had to pick someone else. The survey should be designed so that I do NOT have to pick an answer that I do NOT believe in. I hope that the writers will realize that they set up a story, especially at the end of season 7 and in 8 where it looked liked they were setting up Nathan as Elizabeth’s choice. Her choice of Lucas makes me wonder if she is only responding to the “temptation” she feels around Lucas. (He tells her,  It is not a date, but if it were a date and he lightly touches her hand...This is duplicitous behavior!) Elizabeth and Nathan have tough conversations about real life and they have the kind of relationship that is very healthy for a long term marriage. ...Frankly, I CANNOT watch a “romance” develop between Lucas and Elizabeth. They might have a similar interest in literature, but the inside character and values of each of them are very different. Elizabeth only needed a little opportunity once Nathan was free of guilt to give him a chance to win over the “romantic” side of her heart.

Lee and Rosemary adopting a child!

For Elizabeth to dump Lucas or for Nathan to meet someone new who will really value him and let him in

I am not sure if I will be watching season 9 as yet.  I need to figure out if I can get past the finale first...  It took me over a year to come back after Jack's death and with the way the finale has disrespected the past 3 seasons, I don't know if I have it in me.  I want to, I just don't know if I can.

Still on fence about watching it

Wholesome cast

Do not really care.

a baby for the Coulters, the development of the relationship between Elizabeth, little Jack and Lucas, the story of Nathan's journey to love,  a challenge the community has to face together,  a love interest for Fiona, the development of the Canfields.  No more Bill and Molly.  I love Bill's character - especially the role he has in Elizabeth and little Jack's life - and Molly is fine too, but I don't see any chemistry there.

Nathan becoming more popular than Elizabeth

I want a happy ending for Nathan and Allie.

N/a

Only the new adventures of Nathan, Allie, Rosemary, Lee, the Canfields, Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned and the return of Henry.

No interest in watching 9

I hope the mayoral race is fill of humor and not contention.

Whatever they write

Mike and fionas business Rosemary pregnant Nathan and Lucas are friends Elizabeth’s book is released maybe a baby for Clara Nathan and faith together ally and Robert together  Henry returns Lucas and jack bonding Elizabeth continue to teach and Lucas proposing

I wont be watching to find out, but some respect for Nathan and Allie, and Rosemary and Lee.  I have an inkling that Rose and Lee are going to be screwed over next.  Hopefully E and L just break up randomly bc idk how anyone could sit through the show and watch them together. It's disturbing

I'm not sure of the year anymore, but the Spanish Flu should be showing up any day. I have a list of characters that could fall victim.... let's start with Elizabeth.

less kissing

Better writing, less pair-the-spares, more focus on relationships and less on interpersonal drama.

More Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan getting a storyline instead of being a punching bag.

No

Not going to watch it.

Not watching

Rosie and Lee having a family of their own either by adoption or pregnancy.

Increased focus on entire ensemble.

I won't watch season 9, but I hope that they finally give Nathan and Allie happiness. I hope Allie calls him dad, and that she gets her own horse, and I wish that Elizabeth would just leave them both alone now. I hope that whoever they do pair Nathan with loves and appreciates him for who he is, and loves Allie, and puts them above everyone else. Bonus points if whoever she is tells Elizabeth to back the hell off at some point!

More of Nathan

Nothing

Not watching

Break up of Elizabeth and Lucas

Don't care not watching anymore

More action and real suspense.

Don't care not watching anymore

Lucas and Elizabeth getting married.

Meaningful conversations between E & L; Nathan being Allie's dad/Allie supporting him through his loss of Elizabeth; Hopefully Elizabeth, Lucas, and Nathan can still be friends.

Continued better writing and character growth.

More of Nathan. I really like his character. I want more of his past and what has shaped him. I want to see his honest and noble character.

More challenging life experiences; give Fiona more prominence ... perhaps as a stringer for Rosemary’s paper; Jesse develop some character.

better more coherent writing

Henry back

I don’t care. I’m no longer a viewer after this season.

Elizabeth realizing Nathan is the one and Nathan rejecting her the whole season, having another serious love interest but forgiving her for her bad choice at the end

More emotion from Nathan . A chance in Elizabeth

Elizabeth realizing she made a mistake

Many interesting stories

Lee and Rosemary getting back on their "parenting issues" the whole Rachel thing was put in and taken away way too soon? There were a lot of things thrown in this season just for something to do, and at this point, since Nathan is still the mountie...more proper mounties storylines, like the investigation on the tampered oil, that was cool (maybe I should just switch to Murdoch's Mysteries XD)

Very little of Elizabeth and Lucas

Improved writing by then staff

see less of E and L and see more of the other characters , Nathan and Faith just become friends who console each other for their heartaches not a couple

Bill & Molly

I have no hope for season nine

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

less drama

Lee and Rosemary have a child.

I'm not very hopful.

Nathan and Ally moving on and eventually finding a family with a woman as selfless and noble as Nathan.

I don't even know, I'm just so angry and sad.

Don't Care , will not be watching..  I am finished with the Hallmark Channel  and anything Hallmark.

Just a continuation of the hopeful storylines and of course the romance

Faith being more in charge Ned and Florence being married lee running for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas engament jack growing ally and Robert and a baby for Clara

Focus on building a compelling beautiful story for Nathan; that his heart will heal. That he will fall in love with a new beautiful lady coming to town, which will be a deeper and more epic love that would have been with Elizabeth.  More storylines with Nathan and Allie; Rosemary and Lee to be parents.  Hope that writers and producers will not ruin Nathan's character and storyline. And do not pair Nathan with Faith nor Fiona.  Hope there will be less of Elizabeth and Lucas and focus on other characters.

more time spent on the storylines - not so many brief scenes

Nathan gets a love story as glorious as Elizabeth & Jack.

Will not be watching. This heartie is broken and lost hope.

Elizabeth engaged

Elizabeth and Lucas happy and in love. I hope we get plenty of Florence and she doesn’t fade into the background now that they gave her a romance. I’m also hoping for more of the Canfield family. Idk if there will be any progress on the Coulter family front, but I would like to see them adopt an older child or at least decide to sometime later this season. Nothing against them finding fulfillment without a child (I love a happy childless couple!), but it’s been established they want to be parents and it would be nice for them to do that as well. I do hope Henry comes back without Abigail! I’d miss Henry, but I don’t miss Abigail lol. I won’t be mad if she comes back, but I don’t want her either. Looking forward to whatever the season brings!

More story with the Canfields.

Don’t care

Any other comments?

I will only watch to support Kevin, Kayla, and Jaeda. Nathan was by far by favorite character on the show. Kevin McGarry deserves better than this decision and I hope that they will give his character more air time next season

Everybody calm down. There was nothing new, better, worse, different, or surprising about how this season was written/handled. We don't watch WTCH for it's sparkling dialogue and satisfying storylines. We hope for something showing decent people living good lives with faith and optimism, and they still manage to do that (and have finally brought back the "faith" part of this with the arrival of a new pastor) even if they screw the pooch with the details.

I understand why people were mad about the finale, but idk all this hate on IG us just rude and disrespectful to the crew

Team Nathan!

I cannot enjoy WCTH because it’s not remotely entertaining if you can’t trust you understanding of the story over time.

None

This was my first season watching live and despite the fallout from the triangle I had fun

Nothing I haven't or you haven't or the fandom hasn't already covered. I'm just disappointed in all the potential they threw out the window. I have zero trust in the PTB. They don't care about these characters.

I will pretend that the series finale was season 7. I don’t know how I will ever love the show like I used too. I’m too tired of the letdowns.

You’re the best, I’m so thankful you let us vent and give us sane, logical takes about this show. OH and all you Team Nathan people boycott the crap out of this show and maybe they will reverse their decision to Nathan on the love triangle. At these tank the ratings. You don’t owe the show runners anything for destroying this show.  

I truthfully haven't seen a single episode. Had it recorded and followed this blog and live viewing comments on the FB page. After hearing how everything went down in the last episode, I have absolutely no desire to watch the season. I could have forgiven Elizabeth for how she acted towards everyone if it was truly her working through her fears of being with another Mountie. But since that wasn't the case, I have a lot of dislike for her (and the writers) now.

Thanks for your blog. I appreciate it. There must be a reason for how this turned out. Although we we can't see it and will probably never know the answer. It suck

I was Team Nathan for a long time - pretty much two years.  I saw the writing on the wall when Lucas said he would wait and again when Elizabeth was resistant to moving forwarding with Nathan at so many steps along the way.  Even the hand holding post wedding seemed intentionally friend zone. And look on her face when she realized that she was acting with Nathan like she did with Jack, to me that was the end.  All the signs were there.  Some people were so routed in Nathan that they couldn't see another possibility.  I have opened my mind to Lucas because I love the show.  And you know what - it's not so bad in land of Lucas and Elizabeth.  For those who are devastated and done, maybe down the road, when you're feeling less heart broken, you might want to try going back and watching with a more open mind.  There is some pretty hot stuff there.  Because of my love for Nathan (and yes, I still love him!) I couldn't have said that a year ago. :)  

It's not because my guy didn't win the girl, but because this story is getting too much like a soap opera and in the case of that last love scene, a little trashy for a family show.

After next season I will look at the recap.  If you have changed Elizabeth's stupid decision I will watch again, if not, there are plenty of other shows to watch.

The love triangle wasn’t real in the true sense of the word since Elizabeth never went on a date with Nathan.

Brian Bird is a jerk.

I have never been so mad and sad  at the conclusion of a TV show..not really my personality.  BUT the chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth was undeniable.  Nathan proved over three seasons to be his own unique character, and fans would not have labeled him as Jack 2.0.  There would have been plenty more stories to tell.  Now I think I am done watching.  The other characters are great, but the story is mostly Elizabeth’s....the way it was created and, in spite of Jack’s death, the way it has continued.  I honestly think the producers want a show that is going to last for a long, long time, so it needs to begin focusing on other characters.  And I also think that Nathan and Elizabeth would have been so great together that the spotlight would have stayed on them.  This would have wrecked the direction the producers want the show to go, but instead the show is just wrecked by a new formula that isn’t working.

What a relief that I can move on and actually feel so good about it. Yippee!

I was really enjoying this season, I thought they were doing really well and better than they ever have and then in the last episode it felt so rushed and thrown together without any thought!!! That ruined the entire season for me. I can’t even go back and watch it again because it’s all for nothing! It was so obvious that E was in love with N but just scared of her past, I was waiting for something to happen for her to realize. And maybe to see the quote that N gave her again. It seemed that L was just a rebound/distraction I didn’t see one ounce of affection from E toward L. And what about the bachelorette party? Didn’t that mean she was meant to be with N? And the touch in the library? They were portrayed as “sparks” but apparently it was mistaking him for Jack??? Come on, we are meant to believe that garbage??? There was none of those scenes with L, what love story are they talking about in the last scene? So many things! How can N say it was L all along when we saw zero evidence of that!

I’m finished with the show. I do not care to see how S9 plays out. They do not deserve my time after the complete disregard to viewers time and investment over the last 8 years. I am appalled at the reaction from Brian Bird and Chris McNally. I have never been so offended as a fan. I will not watch so they can send their rude tweets to the very few people that still watch their show. I’m DONE!!!

Disappointed in Elizabeth but think back to season 2 and how she led on Charles...no surprise with how she treated poor Nathan

I'm going to watch Season 9. Just skip over E's storylines. I now hate her.

Too many storylines this season, writers need to tighten it up. Love triangle was handled the worst possible way it could be handled.

This season was a disappointment unfortunately. And not only because of Elizabeth, but also because my favorite characters either weren’t a big enough part of the storyline or they just were so different from previous seasons.

I'm still so shocked at the outcome of this finale. It's even more egregious to me because they managed to ruin just about every character and it was so unnecessary. I wish they had Elizabeth choose Lucas in the first episode of this season that way they could have let them grow together while also letting Nathan begin to move on and Nathan and Lucas to begin a friendship. But they took it so far and raked everybody through the coals that I just can't imagine any of that happening right now in a realistic way. I think I'm the most upset because there is a world where I would have been fine with Elizabeth choosing Lucas. But they spent the whole season + prior seasons showing us that her love for Nathan was deeper, that there was more to explore there and that her time with Lucas was limited & she couldn't be with him because she kept thinking about Nathan (I don't care what any one says, that is what was done) that I couldn't even get into the relationship between Elizabeth & Lucas. Then at the last second went JK NOT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WERE DOING AND YOU'RE STUPID FOR THINKING THAT! It's just so unbelievable.

Unsure if I will watch

Very disappointed with the finale.

They got it so wrong...

The love triangle was annoying and a straight line. Elizabeth was horribly written.  Nathan was screwed over. TeamNathan got screwed over.  I will still watch just to see what happens next.  I will not let Elizabeth/Lucas storyline ruin it for me.

The finale was my favorite episode of the series. I’m so happy they didn’t go down the same road  as jack with her picking Nathan .I love Nathan’s character as a Mountie but NOT with Elizabeth. I’m so looking forward to seeing her and Lucas as a happy in love couple I’m just so happy  and there kisses were so beautiful and passionate I couldn’t love them more.

They made the case for a beautiful love story between Nathan and elizabeth- not for Lucas and Elizabeth. The ending of that triangle was not believable for me. Kevin McGarry is a fabulous actor with tremendous range and seems to bring out the best in any scene partner he has had. He has always been believable in everything I have seen him in. He is a true leading man and they should be treating him better or he will/does not have to stay with the show. I am not trying to trash Chris McNally, but he is rather limited as an actor and looks almost wooden in some scenes. I can't always hear his dialogue because he speaks too low or too fast sometimes and he is not always believable for me- nice to look at, yes, but not the actor Kevin is. Maybe they partnered him with Erin so she could help him develop more. I love Allie, Rosemary, Henry, Bill, and Fiona and can see some great stories ahead for them if the writers don't screw things up. I would never be able to stomach Lori Loughlin and Abigail again, and I feel they will force her back on the fans next season. As evidenced by the love scenes in the finale, Hallmark is changing this show forever- it will be edgier, sexier and much less "Christian-based". Not sure if the Hearties will accept that. I don't really care anymore as I am no longer supporting Hallmark channel. Don't like the mess they made this season, or many of the changes made in their movies of late. I have found myself tuning out a great deal. I hope people like Kevin McGarry, Jaeda, Kayla Wallace and Pascale are seen i other non-Hallmark projects so I can enjoy seeing their work. Really disenchanted with Erin Krakow's performances of late.

Thanks for all the work you do running this blog!

I’m very happy with this season I will continue watching as long as it continues. Does anyone here watch new Amsterdam tv series?

Love that they took characters who are always in the background and gave them actual storylines.

I think I’m in the anger phase of grieving. I’m sorry if the answers cause a reopening of wounds but it feels right to me to call them on their shit by voicing the injustice of treating your viewers this way. These writers just told the laziest, quickest, ficklest (?) “love story” I have ever seen, EVER.

Thank you so much for everything you've done this past season! I really enjoy your blog and your insights on the show as well.

There can be a conflict with women owning business (no offense) and other women in the show working and having families. Please keep the show from becoming so feminist. Please retain some strong men.

Thanks for the survey!

I hope season 9 explains things and or finishes plots left behind in season 8.

That ending really just made no sense at all..what was the point of the whole season before it?!

Nope!

Terribly written finale. So rushed and smacked together. Yuck

Sigh... it really was a letdown after it seemed that all the signs were pointing to Elizabeth facing her fears and accepting the love of Nathan and loving him in return and them being one big, happy family.

This was my first season watching WCTH in years (since like season 2), so I’m glad I wasn’t too invested just to be disappointed in the end with the decision Elizabeth made.

I hate that Elizabeth used to be my favorite character to the point of seeing myself in her, but now I really dislike her. On the bright side, at least I've grown to love Rosemary enough for her to be my new favorite!

I think the writers need to listen to their audience and work to smooth out this bumpy season. I hope the writers are more selective with the storylines they choose so that those arcs can be fully developed. For example, Jesse being missing in the last two episodes was mishandled in my opinion. So few people cared that he was gone and I don't think the writers even fully explained what happened to him.

So glad the triangle is over, and I hope we never see anything like it for anyone else again.

Overall I liked this season (except the love triangle stuff) but I don't know if it will be enough to keep me watching. Guess I'll have to see how season 9 plays out.

I'm glad Carson is gone lmao. I'd be pretty happy if I never saw him again. Henry better be back. Lucas and Elizabeth can move to Hamilton...seriously. Baby Jack deserves a more attentive and present mother. But honestly, keep Carson away & write Lucas and Elizabeth off and I'd be DELIGHTED and actually stoked for season 9.

The stories are lame.  I want more Lee and Rosemary.  I did not like Christopher/Rachel.  And, why are they doing with Henry?  It’s all confusing.

Please consider reversing Elizabeth's choice. She and Nathan look so good together.  Lucas is too lecherous looking in my opinion.

I wonder if Rachel will return will Lucas and Nathan become friends?

The season sucked! The writing was poor and there really wasn’t a triangle. They misled and lied to the viewers. It would have been easier to accept Elizabeth’s decision if we saw her date both men and see how it worked out with each of them. The writers never gave Nathan the opportunity but instead used him as a punching bag the whole season.

I can’t even bear to rewatch any of the seasons after that ending. I’m so glad I didn’t preorder the season—and I’ve canceled my HM subscription.

Get new writers!

I was for either guy at the beginning of the season. All they had to do was show me the love story. They didn’t do that.

The choice of Lucas was ridiculous. Will no longer watch the show. I’m very sad.

If you are going to have Elizabeth and Lucus in a relationship I would hope that you would work on him becoming more child friendly. If he doesn’t accept little Jack then he doesn’t deserve Elizabeth. They are a package deal.

Love the show. I think people that threaten to stop watching because “Team Nathan” are just bellyaching and will wind up watching it again just to have something to grouse about. It’s just a TV show, people. If it always goes the way you want you’ll just complain that the writing is getting stale!

love your blog

Extremely disappointed with this season. Will no longer watch.

No

This season felt like it was perfectly setting up for the next. It felt like a lot of new beginnings were being set up leaving us ready to explore.

I’m personally Team Lucas so I’ve been happy with the decision but I actually think if Nathan had “won” it would have been more interesting for Lucas in s9 so actually think Nathan as a character will have a better, more interesting s9

I said the season was good and the writing was, but I will clarify that the finale TOTALLY ruined the underlying track that was being built up for Elizabeth to choose Nathan. I don’t believe that the script writers gave Nathan the chance that they gave Lucas. Elizabeth grilled him to try to find him guilty of wrong, but Lucas had a number of shady deals that reveal poor character and Elizabeth did not find out about those and have a chance to grill him. If she knew those things, would she still be choosing him? Elizabeth was allowed to be “charmed” by his superficial lifestyle and empty promises. Because of Lucas’s shady dealings, he and Elizabeth almost got killed in the saloon. Later, he said he would never let anything happen to her. Nathan was the one who saved Elizabeth and Nathan’s life in that scene. Lucas is a talker with empty promises and Nathan is the one who actually rescued Elizabeth from Lucas’s bad deeds. The ending of Season 8, Episode 12 is NOT even logical. She needed someone like Nathan to protect her from Lucas. If this is REALLY who Elizabeth is, I don’t want to watch her. She does not follow her own advice. Once Lucas’s full character is revealed, we would only have to watch her get hurt over and over.. I CANNOT watch an Elizabeth and Lucas love story. The writers should not be biased against Nathan just because he was a Mountie. He should be seen for himself. Also, if Elizabeth cannot love Nathan because he might get killed this is not a strong enough reason. Lucas could get killed. She told Ned that he could miss the joy if he didn’t go thru with his wedding with Florence. This should have indicated that she would get over her own fears so that she could experience joy with Nathan.

I truly hope everyone gets to the end of season 9 and is pleasantly surprised.  It is the eternal optimist in me, but I would love to see getting there and being unable to imaging things being any other way, despite the heartbreak we all feel for the series right now.  As I mentioned, I have my doubts, however am trying very, very hard to keep an open mind.

I hated the way Nathan was treated this season and won’t be watching anymore.

You are amazing for what you do with this blog and I thank you for your efforts to make it so enjoyable day after day.

No

I think my opinion on this site is in the minority, but Lucas and Elizabeth have solid chemistry and the chance for an interesting relationship. However, I would have been cool with Nathan too.  I love Kevin McGarry and want to see more of his fun side as he dates and raises Ally.  Could absolutely be a great relationship between Fiona and Nathan, but someone new could be exciting too if it's the right person.  Happy the triangle is over. Disappointed at the number of self-proclaimed "Hearties" who are acting like angry (Team Nathan) or gloating (Team Lucas) children.  I love this show because it's about kindness, being decent to one another, and forgiveness.  I had hoped fans on all sides would follow that lead, but not so much I guess. Here's to hoping we all embrace the Hope Valley way, putting the triangle behind us and moving on to whatever comes next!

I thought I would continue to watch even if she chose Lucas but after the way the season played out, I feel like TPTB care more about generating drama for the ratings than good storytelling and I won’t be used like that again.

I gave season 8 an average rating because I liked the stories about Nathan/Allie, the arrival of the Canfields, the love story of Florence/Ned and finally the story of Henry and his son.

Fans need to stop getting hung up on everything BB and the actors say to manipulate viewers into watching. I learned that lesson the hard way from Pretty Little Liars. We were misled over and over by the showrunner and let down every season finale. The series finale was the longest hour of  ridiculous shit to ever air on tv. We were looking for clues the whole time (7 years) and there were no clues, just a lot of pointless crap. I never pay attention to anything BB says on social media or what actors say in interviews. I watch WCTH without looking for clues or expecting any outcome. I saw E picking L a mile away. I like the idea of a heartbroken Nathan getting his own romantic storyline and look forward to that new love story next season.

This was a very good season I like the direction they went with this season and I’m very happy the triangle is finally over and she ended up with the man of her dreams. Lucas and Elizabeth are endgame .

Screwed us over big time. Not just us but the characters too. Nothing made sense and the whole season was for nothing because the story didnt go anywhere. Dont trust Hallmark anymore to write a complete, meaningful, and satisfying story. They disrespected everything about storytelling, the show, and disrespected the community that watched and supported the content. Someone either stupid, bitter, vengeful, or horny decided this finale. F them

Thank you for all you do!

The more I read about the writers of this show and some of the actors responses to the fans disappointment, the Lee’s I want anything yo do with this show. They’re arrogant, disrespectful; I guess thy think they’re so popular that everyone will tune in again next year. They think they have it in the bag. Nope! I believe season 9 will be a failure and probably their last one.

I don't hate the season but the bad balanced out the good so severely I felt like it was just a 'meh' season. I guess that's still an improvement from how I felt about S6 and 7, though.

Hopefully HM fires John Tinker his writing was awful.  I don’t mean the triangle everything was dumb and disjointed

I don't know why I watch this show.  But I must enjoy it on some level.  

Been a fan from day one - you lost 70% of your viewers. Some comments from   WCTH have made the fans feel if you don’t like their story line don’t watch - they are correct - I won’t ! Should of listen to the 70%. Good luck with your viewer ship you forgot who pays you!

I was surprised that E. was so insensitive leading Nathan on for so long.   She is also very materialistic and obviously chose Lucas for all that he could do for her without much depth.

Honestly, I mainly watch the show for Rosemary and Lee. I would like to see them become parents at some point, but I would also like a little more of Rosemary’s backstory. We gotten some of Lee’s backstory. I think it would be interesting to meet some of Rosemary’s family at some point. I am glad that Lee and Rosie are finding their niches career wise.

I just don’t see Lucas as Jack’s father. He hasn’t cared one whit for the boy, and yet the boy is everything to Elizabeth?? Doesn’t make sense. Since I don’t want Abigail back, I hope Henry isn’t going to get her. Alas that also means I think he’s likely left the show. Maybe good for Martin, since it has veered so far away from its beginning.  Thanks for all your work on this Melanie. I value it a lot!

I wish I could take back the last three years of life that I invested in this show. If I had known they would do this I never would have come back after Jack's death. Despite that, I still love and adore and am invested in Nathan and Allie, and some other side characters. But I can't even fathom watching season 9 after what the writers did. My WCTH, the one I loved and enjoyed, ended with season 7.

No

Bring Elizabeth and Nathan together

See Elizabeth and nathan hitched and get married  

love the show Wish there wasn't such a long wait for the next season

I hope they can redeem themselves. I'm a true hearty and I've never missed an episode. I can't stomach the person Elizabeth is becoming. I will stop watching if she doesn't go back to the Elizabeth we fell in love with.

New actors for Ally and little Jack, or less time on screen

The storytelling was not coherent; storylines started and ended abruptly with no flow. They need to get back to the roots of the show and make it more of a family drama again, not an over-the-top soap opera.

Chris McNally and Brian Bird’s attitudes are contemptible. I was not happy with the finale and how everything played out, but their comments have set me over the edge to choose not to support anything they are in or a part of. Rude, self righteous attitudes from both. I’m done.

I am shocked at my own reactions. A TV show shouldn't have so much affect on me but I am truly unhappy with Elizabeth's choice...and I think I am crazy because it is really bothering me!!

I am upset how the season ended. She picked the wrong man. I see no chemistry there.

Honestly no, I am not happy with how the characters were written, both Lucas and Nathan deserved better, Elisabeth came across as constantly freaking out and not following her heart while running over a lot of people (Rosemary, Nathan and Allie in particular) but she's never been my favourite character anyway, so whatever.

p.s. thank you so much for all your amazing work! I love your gifs and your blog <3 keep it up!

Elizabeth’s character has changed drastically.  She has become  egotistical, pompous, cruel, The character that Jeanette Oke originally wrote is nothing like the Elizabeth we now have.

Elizabeth played games with Nathan and Lucas just like she did with Jack and Charles. The series was written about a school teacher and a Mountie.  Not so anymore.

The betrayal of the original story and the fan base is hard to overcome.

I have completely changed my opinion about this show, Erin Krakow, and the direction this series is going in.

This season had so much promise but the finale left me angry. Agree with other comments that if they had invested in a better story for E&L it would be different. Warming the serge was the only time E “might” have been confusing Nathan for Jack. Their relationship was so different... single parenting, especially. Their love story could’ve been even more epic than E & J. Just a real shame. Will not continue to watch. Moving on.

no

The writer's blew this. I am absolutely disgusted with the character of Elizabeth. There is no way a school teacher and mother would have been allowed to associate with a saloon owner in that time period without being run out of town. It's ridiculous that they expect fans to be okay with this.

If I decide to watch, I will skip the Elizabeth and Lucas scenes.

I just discovered your Tumblr site yesterday: it a really comprehensive and insightful work!

Thank you so much for your blog, I seriously need a place to vent and scream for a while. This is ridiculous.

Tell your bean counter I will not be watching .  Hallmark has gone WOKE.

Hopefully John tinker will continue a show runner he did a wonderful job brought some new life to help Valley

I’m very happy with all of the promising storylines in season 9 , Rosemary and Lee’s business vendors, faith being the head doctor Henry’s story Elizabeth and Lucas finally being a couple there is a lot of promise in season 9

Tinker and the producers destroyed in 1 season, what Moreno worked so hard in weaving and building up a beautiful storyline with Nathan and Elizabeth to form the Grant family.  They have to understand that fans are leaving not because of Elizabeth's final choice. The reason is that Tinker and the producers disregarded the premise and the family wholesomeness of the show, and debased it by making it into a poorly written soap opera with lots of shouting and cheap superficial steamy scenes and called it "romance'. They did not take the time to carefully development of storyline of why Elizabeth's decision. If they have done a good job leading to Lucas as a decision, I think that Team Nathan's fans would have accepted the choice. Instead, they played with fans emotions and hurt them badly through the season from both Teams misleading them and make them think who was the endgame. They need to realize that we watch WCTH because of the feel good and heart warming story. The fans kept to the end because they wanted to see their guy been chosen, even though there was lots of anger and disappointment. Who really wants to watch a show that does not entertain us in a heartwarming way. Tinker and the producers are arrogant, prideful, foolish, and not to be trusted and have no integrity to go back to what WCTH values that kept the loyal Hearties coming back yearly. They destroyed all Moreno's hard work to rescue the show after season 5.  We wanted a family friendly clean show that make us happy and hopeful.  The show is shifting to likes of Dallas and Dynasty with steamy scenes, skimpy clothes, bickering and may become darker stories.  

Tinker did a horrendous job by introducing too many disjointed scenes and characters that led nowhere. He did not take the opportunity to develop the story behind Allie's dad, Rosemary and Lee barely had any storyline, many couples bickering and destroyed Elizabeth's character as a morally strong caring woman. The "new" Elizabeth in this season was cruel, mean, self-centred, uncaring and was not really sorry or remorseful for her actions that hurt Nathan and Allie badly, as well as Rosemary. Is unrealistic that Nathan was the one who convinced Lucas to stay.

Positives of the show was Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Loved the Nathan and Allie's storyline.  Nathan portrayed as the noble, sacrificial, kind, wise, heroic and because he loved Elizabeth, he let her go. It showed that Nathan was the better man with an impeccable character.

After this season, Elizabeth has been cheapened to a weak character that did not overcome fear, getting onto people's affair (Especially into Nathan's even when she rejected him, which gave him false hopes), was attracted to wealth and superficial romance, instead of the deep abiding unconditional love with Nathan. She became hypocritical by giving everybody advise and yet she did opposite to what she was saying. This Elizabeth did not deserve to have Nathan. He is too good for her. I don't know what will happen to littleJack as I can't see Lucas to love Jack as his own. He might be raised by nannies (as Elizabeth have already done)  and become a Little Lord Fauntleroy.

If the writers and producers are smart, they should focus on developing a compelling and heartfelt story for Nathan. In my opinion, he is the favourite character that embodies all the good values in When Calls the Heart, even through his imperfections. If they focus on Nathan and weave a great story, they may get some of Team Nathan fans coming back to the show and avoid cancellation after season 9.

Thank you for providing a platform to voice my opinion and disappointment of Tinker and the producers (eg Bird, Erin Krakow) ruining a show that could have been wonderful with lovely storylines for years to come.

It is time to move on from the love triangle.  No matter what a fan group was going to be heartbroken.  No point feeling so betrayed. We were never promised an outcome one way or the other so there was no betrayal.  There was only disappointment of not getting what we wanted.

This was my least favorite season overall.  The main characters didn't seem quite themselves, key couples weren't in sync, no compelling storylines other than the arrival of the wonderful Canfields, Elizabeth & Rosemary were even on the outs.  Missed the kids (although completely understand why they couldn't be there). And very, very disappointed in the ending.  Not a fan of Lucas' character at all.

Hallmark really dropped it on this one. Look at the survey and polls  the  fans wanted Nathan! A good show ruined.  If this was the plan for Elizabeth a different actor should have been cast as Lucas.  No chemistry , a saloon owner it just makes NO sense. The storylines are so disappointing. I am done!

I have some complaints, but overall I liked the season and am genuinely excited for season nine! Positive feelings here for sure! Still, I understand and respect that a sizeable portion of the fandom is upset (I was prepared to be completely crushed myself so I Get It). Since the love triangle ended the way I wanted, I’m relieved and prepared to just enjoy whatever comes our way next.

PS to the person behind this survey and blog - we have some ugh... disagreements, but you have contributed so much to this fandom with your gifs and these surveys. Thank you so much for that. <3

Ratings were down in the key 18-49 demo by 10 percent last year, and now 20 percent this year while total viewers remain flat. I guess we’ll see if their gamble pays off next season. But it really seems like a lot of their most loyal fans really got hurt, and as we know, karma is a b%^^. So much for the showrunner righting the ship.

[timerainseternal]

Who’s your favorite character of tua and why

I enjoy most of the characters in Umbrella Academy, but my favorite is Five! As for why, there are a lot of reasons, but I think, writing-wise it's because I don't know what he will do at any given moment, but I trust where he's going. This is a difficult balance to pull off, but I'll try to explain exactly what I mean and why I feel that way.

Firstly, I don't know what he'll do, which makes him interesting to watch. He's full of contradictions in many ways, he's very resourceful, and he's written as someone who is extremely smart. (Though another thing I find interesting is that unlike with many other "genius" characters, intelligence--as in knowledge or ability like with his scribbling-on-the-walls math--isn't his primary trait, at least not to me. Before that I would say that he is at least determined, as well as resourceful in a way that isn't linked strictly to book smarts. Instead, he's driven on sustained desperation that "geniuses" never seem to get in media, and even though he's so smart and generally competent, his plans often or always fail, which I actually made a whole post about. Even further, we know he's 58, so his knowledge is based not only on natural ability, but also a lot of work and time, which is also not the general presentation. We know he's smart, but figuring out time travel took him a whole lifetime.) Anyway, even his power set is...fluidly defined. I don't know what plans he will make, or what side effects will follow--only that, based on past experience, side effects will follow. As such, I'm very entertained watching him constantly pivoting and coming up with new ideas and plans, especially since I think he gets more plot turns than anyone else in the series, or at least is a more active force in those turns.

His choices also showcase the desperation that is at the core of him, and the moral greyness that comes from it. He's not bound by normal considerations like most of the others are; often, he doesn't even consider them. What might be off-limits to others isn't off-limits to him (which is like his powers in a funny kind of way). But really, it all stems from the fact of having lost everything with his 45-year stint in the apocalypse and the loneliness that comes from that. It's an interesting philosophical thought experiment. What are morals in a dead world? What are a few thousand people compared to the end of humanity? What are we if everything else gets stripped away?

And for Five, the answer is not in the violence we've seen him commit, but instead the love he shows. He was presented as a prickly genius who is smarter than everyone and knows everything (like he says to Allison in ep 1) and who is also a time-travelling assassin hardened by decades in a wasteland. We expect competence, cold calculation, and a near-complete lack of empathy. But then we meet Dolores, and we learn that he's doing everything for his family, and we see that everything he does is for love of other people. Specific other people, sure, but love nonetheless. And he isn't cool about it, isn't aloof; he's lost it all before, and he's desperate, and nothing he does--despite what most shows tell you about geniuses--really fixes any problem completely, and especially not the relationships that got broken when he left.

Yet even despite all that, he's also predictable in a way that lets me trust him. Obviously, as an audience, we see how pressing and devastating the apocalypse is. It's the end. Yet none of the other characters understand that the way we do, or the way Five does. His ultimate goal is to stop that from happening and protect his family, and given his life experience, I know that there is nothing that will stop him as long as he's around. I trust that his character will make decisions towards an end goal that I agree with as the audience, and that as long as that remains true, I know that even if I don't know where he's going with a plan, I can at least trust his intent. Even with the Commission, where he worked as an assassin and presumably murdered innocents, the end goal is great enough that it makes sense. Moreover, though, is that once we see that his motivation is for love and to protect, not from a place of sadism or superiority, and that he will even listen to others to find a less violent workaround (as with Luther in s1), I trust his intentions even more.

That's part of what makes the murder of the Board, and then the aftermath, so interesting: it's a study in contradiction, the urge to be violent and feel seen and effective and successful, contrasted with a sense of guilt and remorse and an understanding that it's not the best version of himself. He's warring with those instincts, but the writers have portrayed him in a way that allows for understanding and sympathy.

For another thing, as I think @the-aro-ace-arrow-ace mentioned, given his unique standing as both 13 and 58, he can't really have a romantic relationship to pull him away like the others can, nor do I think he would if he could, considering the timespan the show tends to give him. He's not really in the mindset for romance at all, and especially not a romance that would distract him from his goals. Not only was Dolores an extension of his own mind for a long time, but also was one he was willing to abandon, first going with the Handler, then again towards the end of season 1. Not only does this make his goals less likely to be swayed from what I, as an audience member, consider to be important, but also romance as the sort of "love at first sight, I will prioritize you over everyone else without any real merit behind it" is always a bit flimsy to me. Maybe I'm a little too aromantic to get it, but I generally find it a bit distracting at best unless done really well. (I did like Raymond and Allison as a couple. I thought that was done really well, where they had time and chemistry and respect for each other, and I enjoyed the time they spent together. It doesn't hurt that Allison is my second favorite, but it stands well even besides that. It's just a good relationship.)

Finally, all of that plays into Five's relationships with others. He isn't good at being a social creature (understandable), yet that's what he values most: his family. He wants to be empathetic--and in many cases he can be--but he's battling his own inability to be understood. He doesn't even fully understand himself in the world he left when he was a child. In a very real sense, he can't do what has become most important to him--not that his siblings are the best role models for communication. It makes sense, then, that he was able to seemingly connect with Reginald. Five wants to connect with the people he missed and felt like he wronged, no matter if he actually was in the wrong or not. He so often gets ignored/misunderstood/considered crazy that even as someone just watching that conversation, it felt cathartic for him to be listened to and taken seriously, even if I think Reginald is the absolute worst and that the best thing for him to do would be to stay dead. Five thought he was being the most rational of his siblings in that supper, but he didn't realize that his biases were as strong or stronger, and just had a different root. His relationships with others are his strongest desire/goal/motivator, but he has such a distorted perception of the way the world works on a daily, interpersonal level and also who he is in that world, that he can't really make it work right, and that's really neat to watch.

In my mind, also, what Five is looking for isn't actually his family from 2019. It isn't even his family from 2002, or at least not just them. I think that what he wants is to be who he was when he left, before he got stuck in the apocalypse. He wants his family because he loves them--I don't doubt that, and I don't want to discredit it--but also because I think in some sense he believes that if he can just be with them again, he can make things the way they used to be, the way he used to be. He's kind of like Luther in that regard, except that Luther is beginning to move on, and Five is stuck in it. The tragedy in this, of course, is that he's the time traveller here, and no matter what time he goes to, his only choice is forwards for himself. He can't go back, even if he reaches the exact moment he left. This, of course, is speculation--or analysis, if we use the kinder term--but I think it shows how much can be read into his character based on his choices and narrative arc, and that in itself is interesting whether it was intended or not.

So, that's an overly long answer to your question! It's Five because I think he's interesting, and I think he's interesting because the writers have backed themselves into a corner where he kind of has to be. I hope that was what you were looking for!

[clericbyers]

Dungeons and Dragons, Will the Wise, Paladins, Wizards, and Clerics

I’ve been sitting on this idea for an analysis for a hot moment so, let’s dig in, yeah?

D&D is a large part of the Stranger Things storyline for a good number of reasons.

The campaign echoes the plot line of the seasons (as we see in ST1 and in ST3)

D&D is how the Party bonds and it’s a marker of their unity and friendship

Will and Mike specifically use D&D to escape from the issues they face in the real world: bullying for them both, Will specifically with sexual identity issues and not being “normal,” and Mike with insecurities and well, not having a girlfriend.

Because of 3, D&D is also a marker of Will and Mike’s unique bond and intense friendship. In the concept bible, Mike is specifically addressed to be Will’s best friend and to be the one friend most particularly troubled by Will’s disappearance (which we see make it in the show).

[ screenshots from the st concept bible ]

Now, Stranger Things has both official comics and a D&D starter kit. The comics is what I want to focus on the most in this first part. (FYI, All pictures used from here on out are my own/my own screenshots.)

Stranger Things Volume One: The Other Side

These are panels from the official Stranger Things comic with Dark Horse Comics. This in particular is from issue #4 which is set in S1. The series as a whole follows Will’s time in the Upside Down that we don’t get to see in the show. He flows a lot between remembering the campaign he and the Party were in the middle of before he was captured, and his hands on experience in the Upside Down. When El greets him in Castle Byers, Will is depicted as having mentally escaped into his Will the Wise persona to protect himself. He even sees El as an elf (check out her pointy ears!)

Now I want to bring in the Stranger Things D&D starter kit for a moment. It comes with 5 character sheets: paladin, cleric, bard, ranger, and wizard.

The wizard is a half-elf.

On the official D&D site, it’s stated that, “To humans, half-elves look like elves, and to elves, they look human.” Will the Wise is depicted as human in this comic, but El switches between looking elven and human when she finds him in Castle Byers. Much like Will fades in and out of his Will the Wise persona and himself, the cleric (who, according to the D&D starter kit, is a wood elf). 

Mike called El a mage in ST2 but he’s also constantly calling Will a cleric, his true self, even though the character Will the Wise is a wizard. (You can find more about what it means that Mike calls Will a cleric in this amazing theory from kaypeace21). I want to focus on the wizard class for just a moment here since that is what Will considers himself and that’s what El is (even if Mike sees her as a mage).

The Wizard(s)

Wizards are one of the base classes in D&D and as we all know, they are magic users. Spells and knowledge is why wizards keep up their studies, always learning new spells and new ways to harness arcane power. Wizards can study magic from one of these arcane traditions: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, or Transmutation. Thinking about El’s powers, she’s part of the Transmutation tradition: telekinesis, levitation, and Blink, which I wanna talk about more.

This is the description of the Blink spell, where “you vanish from your current plane of existence and appear in the Ethereal Plane.” Sounds like something El has done before, right? “While on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and hear the plane you originated from, which is cast in shades of gray, and you can't see anything there more than 60 feet away. You can only affect and be affected by other creatures on the Ethereal Plane. Creatures that aren't there can't perceive you or interact with you, unless they have the ability to do so.”

The Ethereal Plane can be considered the Void or the Upside Down. Only the monsters from the Upside Down can attack El when she’s there. Only Will was able to see her when she was there visiting him in Castle Byers.

Will the Wise though, given the fact he was going to cast fireball during the campaign, comes from Evocation. Evocation is basically elemental spells, so things like fire, earth, air, water, lightning, acid, and also communication. Let’s focus on “Sending”, a level 3 wizard evocation spell. “You send a short message of twenty-five words or less to a creature with which you are familiar. The creature hears the message in its mind, recognizes you as the sender if it knows you, and can answer in a like manner immediately.” Nice, but what about if you’re on a different plane like Will is? “You can send the message across any distance and even to other planes of existence, but if the target is on a different plane than you, there is a 5 percent chance that the message doesn't arrive.” While in the Upside Down, Will has the ability to contact through the lights and the radio, but we also know some of his messages don’t get through to his mom. 25 words or less according to the spell rules.

So, El and Will the Wise are wizards, but Mike the Dungeon Master believes they are mage and cleric respectively. El is truly a wizard, but Mike fantasizes about her being an all powerful and knowing mage. There’s not much different between the two but wizards are generally stereotyped to be those who gain magic through study while mages are more innate with their powers. This is a fair analysis given El “studied” her magic/powers (through abuse and torture) but Mike sees it as an innate gift, which it still is even if she was abused into using them.

So, mage vs wizard aside, we still have the idea that Will the Wise is a wizard but Will is a cleric. Let’s go back to the comics. 

When El leaves, Will is captured by the demogorgon. These two pages here are a flashback (these are interspersed throughout the series) of Mike and Will in the library reading books together right after he’s captured. It’s a cute moment for Will to think about despite being snatched up by the demogorgon and possibly about to die.

I want to focus on Will’s words in the last panel.

He said, “I’m just looking out for Will the Wise.” Okay, pause. Will is captured by a monster and he thinks about Mike, and not just any memory of Mike but one connected to them hanging out and reading books, one of which Mike is using for their next D&D campaign. As mentioned earlier, their personal connection is through D&D, the ST story comes alive in a manner similar to the Party’s D&D campaign and adventurers, so it’s important to keep in mind how both characters go about it throughout the seasons and even here in these comics. Moving on to the next page, Will says, “I want him to live forever.”

Okay, another pause. What else did Will expect to last forever? Him and Mike, hanging out in the basement playing games (in particular, D&D) for the rest of their lives. Basically, Will the Wise lives forever because they wouldn’t stop playing. The thing is, Will the Wise isn’t Will according to Mike. In Mike’s mind, Will is a cleric, which is a completely different class.

Mike prides himself on knowing his loved ones deeply, especially Will and El, so we’ll side with Mike for a second on Will truly being a cleric. Clerics and paladins are similar enough, though unlike paladins who follow an oath, clerics have a god they worship and their spells’ powers come from that godly worship’s domain. In the cleric class description for the Stranger Things D&D starter kit, clerics are “intermediaries between the mortal world and the distant planes of the gods.” Will is one who can go between the mortal world and the Upside Down / Mind Flayer. El can travel there as a wizard yes, but Will draws his magic from that domain. If we look at Will’s powers from a cleric POV,  he obtains his power from the Life Domain, as the character sheet also claims. Life includes healing powers and the ability to harness light and choose between two magical effects: Turn Undead or Preserve Life.

Now, Turn Undead means undead creatures will spend a turn getting away from you if it fails a Wisdom saving throw (a saving throw is a check the DM will make for the creature to see if it is able to complete an attack or take action). Preserve Life on the other hand heals creatures nearby.

Cleric instead of Wizard

Let’s look at Will’s abilities in the Upside Down / possessed by the Mind Flayer as him being a cleric instead of a wizard. Will was able to communicate with his mom and Mike through the lights and the radio. This is a level 1 evocation cleric spell called Thaumaturgy. Here, a cleric manifests a sign of supernatural power for a minute at a time. Flickering lights, diming or changing the color of lights is included in this. Clerics can also cast the Sending spell, which again allows for contact across planes and given the Cleric is labeled to be level 3, this is another possible spell for Will to cast as a Cleric rather than as Will the Wise.

In the Upside Down, Will can hear previously dead creatures talking to him. This could be part of Revify or Speak with Dead, which are Cleric spells that both deal with talking to previously dead creatures.

Back to that harnessing light point. The Mind Flayer was banished with light/heat (fireball in ST2 with the fire in the labs / getting burned and then ST3 with the fireworks). Will banishes darkness in ST2 with happy, healing (light) memories, his love for his family and the people most devastated by his disappearance: Joyce, Jonathan, and Mike. Will is a healer; once he starts healing thanks to the love his mom, his brother, and Mike (his crush) impart on him, he starts to resist the Mind Flayer more. ST3 shows us still that the Mind Flayer is very vulnerable to happy memories and healing through them.

The Dungeon Master

Mike is usually the DM and has a large hand in what happens to Will the Wise during campaigns; this is again pointing to how Mike has kinda always had the ball in his court when it comes to the relationship between himself and Will. In ST3, Will the Wise, the wizard not the cleric, is DM and trying to get a grasp on keeping the game alive. As DM, you don’t play your character, so the wizard with his fireball and ability to go between planes of existence and the cleric with his healing abilities and harnessing light / happy memories aren’t active. Will the Wise is so obviously a characterture in this scene. There’s heavy exaggeration, Will is trying to play a part but the adventurers are not really participating (which is also showing how these three got on the issue with the Mind Flayer’s return a little later than possible, as many ‘villagers’ ended up dying).

This campaign is being played with a paladin who has lost his way (Mike) and a ranger who kinda did the same--though rangers don’t have oaths like paladins do so it’s not the same; plus Mike’s paladin losing his way would be a more egregious offense than Lucas’ ranger and Mike is the one who really offends Will the most in this situation. Mike and Lucas try to shut the campaign down, try to kill Will the Wise controlling the situation. That’s when Will loses it. He’s trying to keep Will the Wise alive all the past couple days, trying to keep him and Mike together, and Mike just shut him down and didn’t care. Will’s reaction, which is odd for someone like a healer, brings Mike back to his oath.

According to the ST D&D kit, Mike’s paladin has sworn an Oath of Devotion. This means Mike is bound to justice, virtue, and order, something like a knight. “They hold themselves to the highest standards of conduct, and some, for better or worse, hold the rest of the world to the same standards.” Breaking that Oath, as Mike has done in ST3, is damaging and requires a cleric who shares their faith to bring them back on the path.

(This is something unique to 5th edition, but a paladin who broke their oath and doesn’t seek absolution becomes an Oathbreaker. They keep their base powers, but becomes darker and more attuned to evil creatures. When Mike lied and broke his oath with El, he didn’t seek absolution and instead, became darker and ruder and even less oath driven. When he upset Will, he immediately rushed after Will to apologize and seek forgiveness. By the end of the night, Mike started fresh just in time for the battle of Starcourt, where he was far more a paladin and faithful leader of the Party.)

The Paladin

Now, let’s discuss some more of Mike’s paladin powers outside of the D&D campaigns. Paladins have a holy symbol and can speak a prayer that turns other creatures so they won’t fight. They also have a spell called Zone of Truth, where basically any creature that comes into that zone cannot lie. Friends don’t lie. We also know Mike in particular is able to touch Will and bring him back from the Upside Down throughout ST2. Mike’s paladin though according to the D&D kit, draws on divine magic through prayer just like a cleric. He is also tied to Life Domain just like Will and can be a healing presence through his touch (Lay on Hands spell) and prayer (Turn the Unholy as seen in the shed scene in ST2 where Mike’s confession could be seen as a healing prayer).

Mike the paladin and Will the cleric are extremely similar and bound to each other in interesting ways. Mike the DM and Will the Wise on the other hand...Mike creates the campaign, he builds the story, he creates the universe, and takes on a persona and Will does the same. These two D&D masks are what they both escape into as professed in the concept bible. Will in particular is more uninhibited when being Will the Wise. He’s able to be braver (as shown in the comics when he slips into his Will the Wise persona to stay alive). When they aren’t playing D&D though, Mike and Will are the paladin and cleric respectively and are so in the real adventure they ‘play’ with the Upside Down.

Saying Goodbye

Now we get to the end of ST3 where Will is donating his D&D manuals. I’ve already done a very Byler centric look at this scene, but pulling away from that ship-heavy lense, I want to point out that this is also a symbol of Will growing out of Will the Wise. Will destroying Castle Byers is also another symbol of this. Castle Byers is Will the Wise’s fort. It’s where he goes in the Upside Down to feel safe, where he meets El, where he takes on the Will the Wise persona when he thinks he’s about to die. By destroying the fort, he’s ending the Will the Wise persona as well. So, that Castle Byers scene is a combination of Will accepting growing up through 1) acknowledging his feelings for Mike, 2) trying to destroy the feelings because he knows it’s not appropriate / part of growing up according to Mike, and 3) recognizing that Will the Wise won’t live forever.

When Will donates the manuals, he’s accepting his cleric role while telling Mike that it’s not possible to want to play another party. Implied in that is the fact that Will only wants this party where Mike is DM, where Mike is the paladin to his cleric, where Mike is devoted and loyal and trustworthy to not just the Party, but to Will as well. And Mike as DM has the power to build a new campaign, a new story, for Will now as the cleric he is.

Hopefully, ST4 will gives us the next step in both how Mike and Will face their changed friendship through their D&D adventurers as paladin and cleric and in real life between each other as Mike and Will. Also, looking forward to further insight into the fact that the Mind Flayer took away El’s powers but exists in the same domain that gave Will his (hopefully permanent but as for now, temporary) powers.

[ If you made it to the end, honestly thank you a bunch for reading this! I have heavy focus on Will, El, and Mike here, but if you want details on Dustin and Lucas’ bard and ranger, let me know! I’m so down to post about those characters, too. ]

[soloragoldsun]

Favorite to Least Favorite Kyoto Winds Routes

Now that I have played through all of the routes, I would like to weigh in on who I liked and why. This will just delve a little into each route, mostly talking about my personal opinion rather than being a true summary. In the future, I may replay them again to give more detailed reviews of each. This game is good enough for me to actually want to do that! In the meantime, here’s my overall opinion of everyone. Remember, this is a Kyoto Winds list. I have not played Edo Blossoms yet, so this is purely based on the first game. Spoilers below.

#1. Favorite Angel of Perfection: Yamazaki Susumu

This gorgeous piece of wonderfulness shot up to the top of my list early on, and has remained there ever since. I love his route because there is a real sense of mutual respect between him and Yukimura. Unlike many of the other Shinsengumi members, who focus on protecting her and who often make her feel like an outsider, Yamazaki recognizes her potential in the medical field and becomes a mentor to her. He shows her that she doesn’t have to be a fighter in order to be useful. By the end of the route, Yukimura’s confidence is so high, she ends up being the one to convince Yamazaki of his worth when he laments his inability to fight in certain scenarios.

Also, I am an utter sucker for the loner type who quietly supports their love interest from a distance before the two even get to know each other. Yamazaki straight-up says that he was watching Yukimura and rooting for her in secret from the beginning! Another plus is how perfect Yamazaki is at showing affection. He’s very gentle, but very straightforward. Once he knows what his feelings are, he’s not shy about making sure Yukimura knows how much he cares. I just about died when he took her hands after being comforted by her and told her how strong she was and how much she meant to him.

In short, respecting your significant other and telling them you care is totes sexy. Yamazaki does that, and then some. He’s also hella pretty, and his blushy face is the cutest shit ever.

#2. Precious Sunshine Boy: Toudou Heisuke

Not to be dramatic, but I would die for Heisuke. His relationship with Yukimura is absolutely adorable from the very beginning! He’s the first of the main cast to be outwardly kind to her, and regularly stands up for her whenever he can. He gets major points for frequently reminding everyone that the Shinsengumi were the ones to originally take Yukimura prisoner, and are the ones at fault for most of the bad situations that require them to protect her.

I love that he treats Yukimura as his friend from the start, even telling her to call him by his first name due to their closeness in age. There are so many scenes when the two are playing around and enjoying each other’s company. However, there are also several deeper scenes that delve into the conflict Heisuke feels concerning the Shinsengumi. His departure with Itou leads to one of the most beautiful scenes in the game, when he and Yukimura meet each other in a teahouse. They can’t acknowledge that they know each other, since communication between the two groups is forbidden, so they spend hours just talking about the weather and other minor things just so they can be together for a little while.

Heisuke is a beautiful boy, and there is so! Much! Hand! Holding!

#3. Adorable Student Bean: Souma Kazue

I was not expecting to like Souma’s route as much as I did, but holy shit! He’s the cutest thing ever! His relationship with Yukimura is completely different than anyone else’s for two reasons: One, he doesn’t know she’s a girl until later. Two, Yukimura is his teacher when he joins the Shinsengumi. He spends most of the route referring to her as Yukimura-sensei, and is shown to respect her a great deal. The mutual respect and building-up in this route reminds me a lot of Yamazaki’s route, so I think it’s a trait of mentor/mentee relationships in this game.

One thing I like is that Souma is respectful and protective of Yukimura both before and after her gender is revealed. He rushes to protect her from Saburo’s harassment while still thinking she’s a man, and continues to call her his sensei after the truth is revealed. Also, there’s more of a sense of the two spending a lot of time together over the course of the route, which makes the romantic buildup seem very real. I especially like that this romance puts Yukimura in the more dominant role. I hope she’s the one to make the first move and kiss him in Edo Blossoms. I will die of happiness if this happens!

He also gets major bonus points for trying to sleep-cuddle Yukimura at the end. I am a sucker for sleep cuddles!

#4. Emotional Support Samurai: Harada Sanosuke

I liked Sano long before playing his route. He is another character who constantly strives to make Yukimura feel better about her situation and comfort her when things go wrong. This is even clearer in his route, which has several scenes of him looking out for her mental health, whether that involves sneaking out to take her for a nighttime walk or arranging a meeting with Sen so that the two can enjoy some wholesome girl-talk (which Yukimura was sorely lacking).

I did feel that Chapter Five was a bit lackluster in this route compared to some of the others, but it did a good job of solidifying the relationship between the two. Sano learns of Yukimura’s healing powers and is stunned, but insists that she isn’t a monster and that he will still protect her, since he sees it as a man’s duty to protect his lady. He called her his lady, and I am dead, okay?

As a romantic route, it had a perfect amount of buildup and sweet moments. I look forward to what comes next.

#5. Puppy Dog Eyes: Iba Hachiro

I’ll be real: This route could have easily secured the second-place spot, and even been a contender for first-place. It had everything I love in a romance. It had childhood friends reuniting. It had sweet, sweet backstory. It had probably the nicest character in the entire fucking game! Seriously, every scene with Iba and Yukimura was just so tender and beautiful! It felt more like a romantic story than pretty much all of the other routes.

So, why is it down here at number five? Well, it’s because YUKIMURA IS A FREAKING DUM-DUM IN THIS ROUTE! This woman was able to see through the feelings of some of the most closed-off characters in other routes, but somehow can’t figure out why Iba keeps putting himself out there for her. He literally takes her on dates, goes on about how wonderful she is, calls her his inspiration, and even calls her his love toward the end! And still, we have moments of her being like “Why is he doing this for me. This can’t just be an obligation to a childhood friend...” No shit, Sherlock! Does the man have to wear a shirt that has “I LOVE YUKIMURA” written on it in big red letters?!

So, yeah. This was a mixed bag. The good outweighs the bad enough for it to be higher on the list, but I really hope Yukimura actually gets a clue in Edo Blossoms.

#6. Sword Nerd: Saito Hajime

Ah, the classic Quiet Loner with a Heart of Gold. It’s an oldie, but a goodie. Saito is a good, solid route with a sprinkling of cute moments that balance with the emotional distance of other moments. Cute moments include Saito geeking out over swords, the snow bunny, and Saito freaking coming back from a freaking spy mission in order to nurse Yukimura back to health!

This route was definitely about building Saito’s respect for Yukimura, who becomes less timid and more determined to prove herself. As a result, she does spend a longer amount of time feeling like and outsider and doubting her worth. I look forward to seeing what happens in Edo Blossoms, now that she’s found her resolve.

Seriously, I am a sucker for sick fics! Why is this game pushing all my buttons?

#7. Epic Dork Bro: Nagakura Shinpachi

And here we are at the last member of the Golden Trio. Nagakura is a precious dork, and I love him to pieces! He spends most of the route acting as a goofy older brother figure to Yukimura, and the two develop a genuinely-adorable relationship. The scene when he falls asleep in her room and gets all embarrassed when he wakes up was particularly cute.

I did feel that the ending of his route was a bit rushed compared to the others. Also, I never felt that shift from him feeling like an older brother to him being a romantic interest. I look forward to seeing that change actually happen in Edo Blossoms.

Overall, this was a route with good moments that tapered off just a bit at the end, but I still loved it.

#8. The True Sexy Demon Man: Hijikata Toshizo

I genuinely enjoyed Hijikata’s route. I just happened to like seven routes better than it. The development between him and Yukimura is very solid, and it’s nice seeing him go from being stern and scary to gruff and caring. This route also made me hate Kazama even more than I already had. Seriously, let’s kill that fucker in the next game!

The appeal as a romance route was a bit lessened by Hijikata’s often-derisive attitude, and the fact that he calls Yukimura a kid from beginning to end. Like, hello? Talking to a grown-ass adult, here. If Yukimura’s old enough to be waifu material for a creepy Demon, she’s old enough to not be called “Kid.”

This had decent buildup, and the beginning of some good payoff. I’ll be waiting, oh second game, for my sweet reward.

#9. Threatening Jerkass: Okita Souji

I actually did warm up to Okita by the end of his route, but holy fuck did I have to slog through a lot of eye rolls to get to that point! He’s supposed to be the asshole who secretly cares, but he makes a little too much of a secret of it throughout most of the route. And, I’m sorry, but you can’t make me believe that him scaring a group of kids is actually an endearing scene. Can’t do it, game.

I did enjoy seeing him soften over time, but I really didn’t like all the moments when Okita makes cruel jabs at Yukimura, acting like he doesn’t care to the point where she actually believes him. I said this back at the number one spot: Telling the person you love that you actually give a damn is totes sexy.

Ah well. People are saying I will adore him in Edo Blossoms, so I’ll hold out for now.

#10. Doctor Evil: Sanan Keisuke

Sanan is a smooth motherfucker, and he’s hot as hell. He even had some really good moments with Yukimura that made me smile. It’s too bad he continues to exude the creepy scientist vibe between those moments. Even when being romanced, he still threatens you several times, including that scene when he almost cuts you for science.

He is definitely a good, complex character. I won’t deny that. It’s just hard to ship him with Yukimura when she spends basically the entire route feeling scared of him.

Please mellow out, you sexy, vampiric son of a bitch.

#11. Bad Touch: Sakamoto Ryouma

I’ve started reading up on the Shinsengumi and other individuals of the time period, and Sakamoto actually seems to be the most interesting and morally-sound. Too bad his route made me want to fall asleep. It had loads of good historical goodies, but this was bogged down by a romance that many YA books would laugh at.

He’s charming and oh-so-charismatic, to the point where Yukimura apparently feels a bond with him despite only spending a little time with him. He regularly gets into her personal space and refuses to back off when asked, but he just feels so warm and comforting and- *gag*

Yeah. The history and the non-romantic moments were interesting, but I’d rather do personal research for that.

#12. Edgelord McFuckboy: Kazama Chikage

I hated Kazama from the beginning. My feelings only deepened as I played route after route and saw the many, many ways this fucker can creep on Yukimura, kill her friends, and call all humans insects. He’s a racist jerk who wants a convenient broodmare for the McFuckboy Clan.

I will admit that the dialogue with him is always interesting. He is a well-spoken character, and an intriguing one. He acts gentler toward Yukimura in this route, but it’s only because she’s in a position where he’s literally her only option for protection.

He thinks humans are insects, tries to kidnap a woman to impregnate her on multiple occasions, and will gladly kill her friends in order to get to her. What a dick.

[m00nslippers]

The past is coming back to wreck Jason’s new life, in RHATO Issue #33

We knew Essence and the All-caste were coming back, from the solicitations/previews, but I don’t think anyone saw the second blonde love interest’s appearance coming. We probably should have though, since this whole comic is just throwing out everything people liked about Rebirth RHATO (Biz and Artemis) and bringing in everything from the New 52 run except what people liked about it, (namely Roy and Starfire being Jason’s besties). So...I don’t know, we’ll jump into this.

It opens on Essence, in the Thousand acres of All, going to see Ducra, or maybe her ghost. She’s supposed to be dead, I thought, but these All-Caste people seem to be able to communicate/exist as spirits. Actually I thought they’d pretty much been wiped out? I am really fuzzy on the All-caste stuff I need to go back and reread New 52 RHATO to refresh my memory, it’s just hard when the art is so consistently BAD after the first artist leaves that I can’t really stand it.

Essence implies that Jason is some ‘great darkness’ and it was a mistake to teach him. Which people have been saying about Jason since Stalin wrote him with the whole ‘bad seed’ thing so, sure, okay. Jason having the potential to be some kind of ultimate evil is actually cool in the sense that it acknowledges Jason is badass and competent enough to be a threat to heroes, which I like, but the idea that Jason would ever be evil is head-shaking to me. But Essence honestly didn’t say much about what’s going on but that Jason is the problem, so there’s no point getting mad about it yet, we’ll see how that develops.

We go back to the Iceburg lounge with Jason talking to Cobblepot through the fish tank wall, the usual “you won’t get away with this!” and “Oh but I already have!” and blah blah blah. It’s revealed the wall can go opaque and show a scenery to disguise the room behind it or it can be clear so Jason can see in, and there’s a little remote that controls it, and I’m already anticipating Suzie or Miguel finding the remote, pressing it and finding Cobblepot there and being outraged. Suzie might not be that outraged, I’m not sure, but Miguel probably would. I’m not sure if there’s a speaker too, because it’s clearly soundproofed since Cobblepot can’t hear out after he presses the button, some kind of Jamming system, he calls it. Which is basically elevator music. Should have learned to read lips, Cobblepot!

But Cobblepot, as it turns out, has some contingencies in place for if he drops off the radar, in the form of two shadowy creeps cutting fish at a production facility. The fact that he thinks his D-listers stand a chance against Jason is honestly adorable.

In the office, Miguel waxes poetic a moment about how he’s feeling all fulfilled and such, running the Casino. It’s maybe a little weird? Like if you said this guy was brainwashed right now I’d be like, yeah, I see it. I don’t think he’s actually brain-washed though, I think he’s just being set up to be really disappointed when he finds out his new situation is built on Jason keeping Cobblepot prisoner. It seems like Miguel is the ‘people-pleaser’ type. He feels most fulfilled when he’s being helpful. As a hero you save people, sure but people are also blaming everything you can’t fix on you, and you don’t get a lot of contact with the people you save after the fact, so being in a more mundane job where he can see the fruits of his labor actually probably fits him better, especially with a good boss like Jason.

And Jason seems to be a good boss, we see. He trusts his employees to do their jobs, isn’t breathing down their necks, acts friendly and positively to them, is concerned for their well-being and they can come to him with problems without him taking it out on them. He really seems to be good at being in charge, actually. People prop up Tim and Dick to be such great leaders, but they both act aloof and sarcastic and sometimes even take out their frustration on the people around them. They aren’t great leaders, in my opinion. They’re great tacticians and they’re very charismatic so people want to listen to them, but they actually are very frustrating leaders to have for their teammates a lot of the time. Jason does have the same bat-weakness as they all do though, in that he keeps secrets that he probably shouldn’t keep from his teammates and I think that’s what’s going to ruin this whole gig.

Let’s take a moment to talk about the art. It’s the same colorist we’ve had, who has been doing a great job, but we went back to the artist who’s been doing things since Dexter Soy left, and while I do like him, I’m a little disappointed. He does great bodylines and shadows and proportions are very good, I like the way he did Cobblepot’s nose super exaggerated, but...I really miss cute Jason’s face from the other artist last issue. In profile Jason looks okay sometimes, all the Su girls look great and most of the other characters too, but in front and three-quarters views it’s very strange and angular, I don’t like it. Also his hair isn’t fluffy and nice, it’s slick and spikey. Oh well, the art quality is still high and I appreciate all the work put into it, I just don’t personally like how Jason is being drawn, but It’s still better than the buzzcut, in my opinion.

But speaking of Jason, he looks awesome in the white, black and red tux, I love it. Jay in formal-wear, always nice. And walking through the casino floor he suddenly spies...

Isabel! Which I was surprised and actually kind of excited to see a little. For those who don’t remember, Jason went on like, two dates with her in the New 52 RHATO. She’s an airline stewardess and basically her thing is she’s minding her own business, runs into Jason and she ends up picking up alien guns and shooting people, and taking it really chill. And this happened more than once. They seemed to decide that Jason constantly being in danger meant they couldn’t really date, since even though she could seemingly handle being in fire-fights all the time unlike most people, she didn’t want that for obvious reasons.

...but apparently she changed her mind.

I personally am pretty committed to Jason and Artemis being a romantic couple in the canon, and I do not want to see him get back together with Isabel, but I do like her and I think she’s mostly good for Jason. This is going to be kind of interesting though because Jason also had a relationship with Essence, who is obviously going to show up later on. Honestly, the ideal situation is that at the end of the arc, Essence and Isabel are in the same room and Artemis drops in from a portal and returns, and all three sit around comparing notes about Jason and he’s just terrified.

But as they are in the midst of their fancy kiss, the casino gets attacked by Penguin’s contingency bozos. Jason says, “I’m not in the 'doing something’ business anymore,” which is kind of confusing to me? Like I didn’t think he was ‘quitting’ being the Red Hood, per se. Or maybe he genuinely thought he was, and he could do everything through his casino without being Red Hood anymore. I don’t know. But we all know Jason won’t stop 'doing something', in particular shooting people who have it coming. So I’m not sure if he’s outright lying to her, or it’s just strange wording. But also, where the heck is Wingman in all this?

So, the people who show up are the ‘Five Aces’ who I have never heard of. I’m assuming Lobdell didn’t just make them up for this, but maybe he did, I’m not sure. What I do know is there are four aces in a deck so there being five aces is confusing. But the Su sisters are on it and fight these guys and I actually really like the Su sisters, they are each of them very cool, even if Candy is sort of a discount Harley Quinn. They are all very snazzy and badass and I’m glad they got a redemption of sorts by teaming up with Jason.

One thing though, is they treat Suzie Su like she’s freaking invulnerable? She gets hit with arrows and an axe and doesn’t even bleed, like what? Clearly she has invulnerability and maybe some super-human strength, but no one has mentioned this ever, so...

The fight is pretty good, all the ladies got chances to be badass, the art was easy to understand and looked clean. And it’s actually nice to see people just straight up shoot someone, like we don’t need to make this complicated, just do the obvious thing to take them out, yeah? There was no blood, which felt unrealistic and a little insulting. The sisters take out four of the five aces, and I think at least three of them are arguably dead, since one got shot to hell, one had a bomb stuck down his pants and the other got his face blown up. The guy stuck in the diamond/ice might be alive but if you tell me the others are later I’m gonna call bullshit. But all this leads to the sisters remarking that this might be a diversion to take out Jason which...

Jason is running around with Isabel and she remarks, “Oh you’ve really changed,” which, no? Jason always tried to get Isabel out of the situation first, if I recall? This is perfectly in character for how he has acted towards her before. She was always the one who insisted on jumping in with him I think, but I guess she means him delegating and not jumping in too. But he only had Roy and Starfire before so he didn’t really have a choice back then. I don’t know, I guess maybe there is a subtle distinction, but the way I see it, before he stayed involved to help his friends and here, the Su sisters are paid employees who should be able to handle things on their own, and there’s a bunch more of them and their fighting the dregs of the villain bucket. It’s the situation that has changed, not Jason himself.

At this point the fifth ace appears, takes some shots at them, and Jason says, “Hold my beer,” for no goddamn reason. This line really put me out of the story. He’s not even holding a beer, or anything at all for that matter, the line in this situation makes no sense. Lobdell, stop forcing memes or whatever into Red Hood comics. I don’t like it. Yeah, Jason is sarcastic and quippy on occasion but he’s not this pop-culture geek you have suddenly started insisting he is? Like that’s Tim or even Dick, it’s not Jason, okay? Also, this situation might have been funny if he actually was holding a champagne flute or something? It’s a casino, he could reasonably have been doing that before. Or he could have handed her his jacket, I don’t know, then maybe the line would make sense. It would still be dumb, but at least it would make sense.

But anyway, Miguel uses his brick powers to save them from getting shot up and hands Jason a suitcase--the “security protocols”, which contains his Red Hood outfit. Apparently this was not actually a thing set up by Jason himself, Miguel did it. So give this guy a raise, Jason, he’s really going above and beyond for you over here. I’m thinking maybe it’s not that Jason has totally stopped being Red Hood, just that he is trying to avoid being him in his casino to keep the connection between Jason Todd and Red Hood a secret, which makes sense.

It turns out the fifth ace guy is one of the All-Caste, which considering the fancy swords and the fact that there are only four aces in a deck, makes sense. Jason calls him out and it’s reiterated that Jason is the ‘chosen’, the last disciple of the All-Caste.

They fight, the guy spouts some stuff about how Jason never should have been trained and all that jazz. Jason remarks that people are always trying to make him do things their way and he’s more or less sick and tired of it. Which, you can’t blame him, no one who ever tried to train Jason seemed to have his interests at heart, even Bruce really. They just wanted a biddable little ninja boy.

So that all goes down and Jason literally turns the guy to dust, that’s just what happens to All-Caste and Untitled who get killed I guess, they turn to dust because they’re ancient. Suzie is all worried about Jason which is kind of nice. Like someone actually giving a shit about Jason is honestly a novelty, no one in the bat family ever seems to wonder if he’s okay, Biz and Artemis gave him lots of space and just assume he could handle himself, only Roy and Starfire cared at all and Roy is dead now. So yeah, seeing someone rush in, worried for Jason, kind of endears me to Suzie. I know she did messed up stuff in the past but I’m sold, okay? If she goes back to being an irredeemable villain I’ll be really disappointed.

But the real important thing is Jason hides that he took out the other intruder. He isn’t mentioning the All-Caste stuff to her, or maybe anyone, he could tell Miguel and Wingman about it later, we don’t know. All I know is that it’s in character, Jason tries very hard to keep All-Caste/Untitled stuff to himself and the Caste and not involve outsiders, but I know for a fact it’s going to blow up in his face somehow. It all worked out with Roy and Starfire but I don’t see it going so well here.

And that’s it. This issue was a lot of set up, there was good action, a lot of stuff happened. I’m interested to see more All-Caste stuff, hopefully get some things about it explained. It was really a blast from the past and felt a lot like New 52 RHATO which...I have mixed feelings about. I was hoping or something different, that seemed to be what was happening with the Casino arc but it’s really turning a corner. It wasn’t as if the New 52 run was all bad, and I mostly like what he’s done with the Su sisters so far, but I just hope Lobdell takes the occasion to re-explain some things with the All-Caste into being more interesting or making more sense. Seeing Isabel again was a nice surprise but I personally don’t see it lasting. Everything is going to come down on Jason again and she’s going to remember why they didn’t really go out in the first place. Also, I have a personal bias for Artemis, so there’s that.

I have NO IDEA what is going on with Wingman, why the heck wasn’t he in the issue at all? He was built up as some big mystery and wanted Jason to go back to Gotham, but then he isn’t even here when stuff goes down? I hope this doesn’t turn into some loose end that never gets explained, but we’ll have to see.

[medilea]

My thoughts on The Legend of Heroes games.

I love them. Sky SC and The 3rd are probably some of my favorite games of all time. After playing through every game (minus Cold Steel 4) in the span of 2 and a half months, I feel compelled to tell every I know that likes JRPGs that they have to play these games. Buuuut that doesn’t mean I think these games are flawless. There are some things I really hate about this series. And I want to talk about the things I love and hate about the series.

Let’s start off with the positives.

1.) First and foremost, this series has a world that feels like it is alive and will continue to live even if the protagonists do nothing. My favorite way this was portrayed was in the Crossbell and Cold Steel arcs. Events in Cold Steel 1/Cold Steel 2 and Ao no Kiseki happen simultaneously. In Cold Steel 2 you get to see what’s happening in Crossbell from Erebonia and vice versa, albeit a bit weaker in Ao until the very end.

Another one of the ways it does this is by having in game readings of news articles, fiction, non-fiction, and reports. I love reading. This game is meant for people who like reading. It doesn’t matter what you like to read, but just know that if you play these games, ya gonna have to read. These readings paint the picture of a much broader world than the area you inhabit.

The world also feels alive is on a smaller scale. And that’s how towns have npcs that don’t even matter that still have their own little arcs and lives to live. Sometimes these characters will have a sidequest that will be the culmination of their arc but if the player doesn’t interact with them, the payoff won’t be there. This felt strongest in the Cold Steel arc, especially since CS1/3 takes place in a military academy, so you get to experience the stories of other students.

2.) This series is great for what it is when it comes to things like imperialism, class struggle, and war. The politics of this series is insane. Things that happen in game have happened or are happening in real life. I don’t want to spoil anything so I (and this pains me) won’t explain in further detail. Please just play them to find out.

3.) As a game, the combat is really fun. I’m a sucker for turn based fights and I love turn based combat even more when it shows the turn order. Also there are no random encounters so you’re mostly in complete control when determining when you want to fight.

4.) While on the topic of it being a game, it has something that I think should be standard for most games and definitely all JRPGs. It has a fucking fast forward mode! I love that. Going back and forth between areas isn’t a hassle, easy fights end in literal seconds, and you can fast forward through camera pans.

5.) Most of the characters are really cool! And there are a lot of them. The protagonists are dope. The antagonists are dope. It’s great. Of course there were a few I didn’t quite care for (sorry Millium) but there were also some characters I cared a little bit too much for, like Renne. So when I got to Star Door 15 in The 3rd lemme tell you I was literally sobbing.

I think the Crossbell arc was great with characters because unlike the other games, the main 4 party members you have are the ones you keep.

My favorite characters in the series are Kevin Graham, Randy Orlando, Estelle Bright, Wazy Hemisphere, and Crow Armbrust. If you have any intentions of playing this series don’t google anyone, and honestly, just don’t look at the wiki at all. Even if you think you’re safe because you’re not.

6.) Journey before destination. I got spoiled on so many things yet it was never ruined for me. Honestly they make it pretty obvious too with some things too that I want to believe that they’re just messing with us, because even if we’re spoiled or if something is predictable, it’s still a great journey. That being said, I know I mentioned that I didn’t want to spoil some things in #2, I just don’t wanna be the one to do it to you. I just believe that this series is best enjoyed blind. If you’re curious and accidentally learn something however, that’s still fine.

EDIT:

7.) The music!! How could I forget the music! Falcom’s music team puts out some absolute bangers. Here’s one of my favorite battle themes they put out.

Bonus.) I just want to give a special shout out to Trails in the Sky FC. It’s the very first game that starts off this grand interconnected story and I’m so happy that the main character is Estelle. I think it’s huge because for a JRPG that came out in 2004, Falcom made their main character a loud, brash, rude, and strong ass young woman that grows into an incredible person (that is still loud, brash, and rude). I just love them for that. Estelle’s the best...elle.

And now about some of the things I hate. For some of these I understand that there are cultural and ideological differences, but they still made me, ah, uncomfortable.

1.) Homophobia. Right off the bat. While it’s never direct with its homophobia, LGBT characters’ sexuality is often responded to with a 😅 from all the characters. But that’s not the main issue. The issue is that two out of the (potential) three LGBT characters, (If there are more I’m sorry but I only caught the outright stated) Olivier and Angelica, are constantly portrayed as predatory and I think that’s just a bad look honestly.

I do have to give props however for their portrayal of some characters’ gender. It’s not outright stated but from context clues I was able to assume that a certain main character in Crossbell was non binary. Being non binary myself that could be me projecting but idk it seemed pretty clear.

2.) In the Cold Steel arc it feels like a lot of the women there are supposed to be part of the Rean’s harem. They’re all wonderfully written within their personal storyline but when it comes to romance it’s just kinda cringe. Especially when in CS3 where Rean is an adult, a lot of them are minors. Hell, while we’re at it, while infrequent, there’s also sexualization of minors in general. It mostly comes down to some temporary outfit designs and I would say there’s nothing inherently sexual about most of them, but that’s if they were real people able to make their own choices...which they’re not. Someone designed those.

Finally I just have to mention why the hell do the characters act like if Tita and Agate were to date that’d be fine. He’s 28 and she’s 16 (CS3). They’re not together thankfully because only she has a crush on him, but like I said, characters think it would be ok and that’s an issue for me.

Now on to topics about the game/story itself instead of shitty things like these

3.) Within the first bit of CS1 there’s one of those “oops we fell and accidentally ended up in a unique position” things and I just hate those. Stop that. It’s treated as an interpersonal and a communication issue that lasts for hours of game time.

4.) In some story battles you’ll do great only to see the cutscene afterward show you losing, only to be saved by a stronger ally. It kind of made me feel like what I did was useless. Sometimes you also are supposed to lose a fight but you don’t know it.

5.) Sometimes you could get swept up in a wave of exposition that lasts for half an hour or more. You don’t know when this will happen. This was no issue for me but that’s because I was unemployed when I played them so I had a lot of free time. Your time should be respected.

6.) Crossbell games haven’t been officially localized so if you’re impatient like myself then you have to make do with translations that are just ok.

I’ll have a final point that’s kind of a spoiler so as for now I’ll rate the games and show the recommended playing order with an explanation. Even the last place rank is a good game though. I’ll post the final point at the very end so if you’re reading this and wary of spoilers you can finish after the conclusion.

Ranking:

Sky SC > Sky the 3rd > CS3 > (Ao = CS1) > (Sky FC = CS2) > Zero

Play Order:

Release Order: Sky FC, SC, 3rd, Zero, Ao, CS1, CS2, CS3

How I played them: CS1, CS2, All of Sky, All of Crossbell, CS3

How I would replay them: Sky, CS1, CS2, Crossbell, CS3

Since the first 2 CS and 2 Crossbell games are happening simultaneously there are many things that overlap. In my opinion I think that the Crossbell games give away more things about the Cold Steel games than the other way around.

If you read this, thank you for taking the time to do so. These games are really incredible and I highly recommend them to anyone that enjoys JRPGs. If you do decide to play, enjoy. Please talk to me about them.

7.)

Character deaths aren’t impactful because no one in this damn series stays dead. It gets really annoying after a while.

[alexdanversfbi]

Supergirl, Sanvers Fandom and LGBTQ - in response to Twitter Posts.

I’m making a post to try & clarify some things since I made a post, & subsequent issues that have arisen from it. Forewarning, this is going to be quite lengthy but I hope you will read it carefully and fully.

Firstly, I’m a transgender man. I’m in my early 50’s. I’m happily married.

My wife (who now ID’s as bi, but for a long time until my transition, was lesbian, as I had lived as well), quite honestly have been involved in the LGBT community & push for representation and law changes longer than many Sanvers fans have been alive.

I say this to make the point, not to say it makes us better at it, or everyone needs to listen only to us - but that to say we’ve seen no representation, to poor & patchy representation, to representation starting to improve.

Both in laws of the land & on screen.

We’ve faced homophobia & seen transphobia up front and personal since childhood. My in-laws were a staunch allies for lgbt people. My mother in law was a beard to a friend of hers, as they went to underground parties simply so he could date another man. Sadly, my own family were less supportive, & while I wasn’t kicked out of my home, I didn’t get unconditional love & support either. While my father is now dead, I’m still facing it today with a mother who is terrible at acknowledging transgender me.

It all has a long way to go - and it might seem glacial to some, but in the decades we’ve seen it going on, there is far more good than there ever was. It’s still mixed in with the bad though. But more on that later.

I got into the SG fandom late.

Really late!

As late as about 3 months ago, because as a surprise for my wife, I bought her tickets for Ultimates specifically to see Flo as an early wedding anniversary present (it’s in May). She had watched the show (although had stopped before the end of S3 after the debacle of Sanvers and the ridiculous storylines being assigned to Alex). I hadn’t even done that.

However, she still talked about it, but because of what happened with Sanvers had said it wasn’t worth me watching it (she had watched it separately from me for a number of different reasons), because of how bad it was.

So I didn’t bother. Why watch something that was going to destroy any good it gave.

My wife though did say how there were (up until the shitstorm of S3) parallels to Maggie’s (& to Alex’s) stories to another program we did watch on UK TV Bad Girls, and Nikki Wade with Helen Stewart. Nikki was kicked out of the family home for being gay at 16. Was an out lesbian. Helen had only been with men, met Nikki, questioned her relationships - and eventually, unlike SG, they gave them the happy ending.

She also remarked how Flo had left for good reasons because of the way Maggie was written beyond the arc of girlfriend to Alex.

Remember, I wasn’t around the fandom, and to be honest, although my wife is a fan of Sanvers & Flo - she wasn’t really around social media either, particularly at the time Flo left. She hadn’t followed any Sanvers fans at that point.

So neither of us had seen the Flo hate. We’ve heard about it - but since neither of us were active at that time, we simply haven’t seen it.

It does not mean for one split second we condone stuff like that, any more than we condone hate sent to any actor or actress, regardless of the circumstances.

So I’m nipping in the bud any accusations of Flo hate from me now. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

We did see some Flo hate on Instagram as S2 of The punisher started and my wife went in on occasion to defend her.

I could do it - but I have crippling anxiety. Even writing this is because of the support of my wife.

It does mean I find it hard - extremely hard - to go in unannounced to people I don’t know to say anything.

My wife does though stand up if she sees anything. It’s just her online time is often restricted.

Back to SG now - we weren’t watching, even though Nicole Maines was cast, but because I was late to watching SG, it really wasn’t something I was aware of.

I will add, my main social media presence until the last couple of months was Facebook or Instagram. So it did pass me by.

Both of us actually, as my wife - due to disability - isn’t always the most active either. She had heard of it, but we often have other stuff in real life going on (hospital & doctor appointments etc), and that was one of those times, so it was there, but not up front & centre for us.

Now this might not seem like a big deal to some or a good enough reason to watch, but to me this is my Maggie moment when I did realise what was going on fully.

As a Transgender man, to see a transgender superhero finally being cast - that was great news.

What wasn’t so great - it was via SG. A program that had shown demonstratively poor judgement & queer baiting since the loss of Flo.

Were we worried that Nicole’s character would get the same treatment?

Absolutely we were.

However, coupled with having bought my wife tickets for Ultimates to meet Flo, I decided to watch SG, since it meant I had an idea about who we’d be meeting.

Then Nicole was added as a guest and that was it. Tough as it might be, we had two reasons to watch.

My wife warned me what was to come. How Sanvers broke up. How poor the writing became (not just Sanvers, but Alex, Mon-El and far more than I can get into here). Despite being warned, I loved the start. I loved (& still love Sanvers). I get why it became so important for a lot of viewers.

I hate how it was dealt with on screen at the end.

Utterly despise it in fact.

But remember, I only came into this recently, so I have no history of how it played out in real time on social media.

I’d become a huge Chyler fan (but I enjoyed her as Lexie) as I loved Alex, the wife is still a huge Flo fan.

Sanvers even had me drawing again for the 1st time in 15 years (see my pinned Tweet as it’s a Sanvers kiss).

But Ultimates was booked.

Then Nicole came along.

So we both grit our teeth and started watching the rest of S3, and what had already been shown of S4 (to show you how late this was, it was already to episode 13 of S4 when we started it).

Season 3 and the first 10 or 11 episodes of S4 are ….. at best badly written. Poor storylines, plot holes you could drive a bus through … but despite all this, we took what we could because the Nia storyline was being handled fairly well.

Now we could argue why settle for something so poor? Why not push for better representation.

I cannot stress enough (and honestly, the whole thing I was trying to put in a 240 character Tweet that has resulted in all this), that for us the show had now put in representation & produced something we’d not seen until now.

The show has moved on, and goodness me, if you truly think I expect people to move on, then it isn’t the case. I was merely trying to explain, that even previously staunch Sanvers fans might well now watch for completely different reasons.

It doesn’t mean there are other staunch Sanvers fans who should move on. You are just as valid in what you want.

It doesn’t even mean the fight for Sanvers as endgame should stop, and people of differing views can still want that to happen.

It was definitely not to bash Maggie (or Flo), particularly as it was Flo who was the reason we are attending Ultimates.

For me the reason I now watch is because of Nia and Alex.

My wife because of Nia.

As difficult as it is to palate for a lot of you (understandably), there are also going to be those who’ll watch the new LI because it’s another area of representation in having a gay black woman on screen.

We’ve (wife & myself) been around long enough to know what poor & good representation looks like. Heck, good representation is nigh on impossible to find - I can say Helen & Nikki were one of the lucky ones. In the 20 years since that’s happened, I’m struggling to find many others. They are out there, but when it’s only a dozen or so at best, it’s tough.

As my wife remarked the other week; when Jes MacCallan wears a t-shirt at Clexacon that lists wlw and it’s barely enough to be on the front of said t-shirt - that shows how poor it’s been. And then most didn’t have a happily ever after. Sure it’s not a comprehensive list, but it does help prove how poor it’s been.

But also remember as poor as that has been, there are some (like trans or gay men or black women) who’ve had even less. They deserve more, & sometimes that starting point is horribly bad.

We’ve also been around long enough to know it isn’t black & white. It isn’t linear.

Just like coming out, you constantly have to do it. That sometimes means taking what is the worst outcome, but using it to steadily push for the better ones. It sometimes means you might have to take that step backwards to move forwards.

It can also feel unsavoury to do that.

A prime example I can think of here in the UK is we remember when people first started touting same sex marriage - and at that point, they were in process of changing the law on same sex adoption.

For those not aware of the UK law that was - it allowed single gay people to adopt, but not couples .... so stupidly a gay person could adopt if single, and then become involved with someone else, but if you were in a committed relationship no go - anyway, from that law the discussion to get marriage in place started. Gay men were openly likened to those opposing the law change to peodophiles, as sadly still happens to gay men today.

That change in adoption law was a big step forward in getting the laws on marriage here changed.

Then came civil partnership. So many people were angry it wasn’t enough and many said it was in fact a step back. Yet, for us it was a huge step forward. I kept trying to explain then, you often have to take the least favourable option to keep pushing for the best outcome. That marriage could happen, but don’t dismiss what was occurring simply because it wasn’t good enough for you.

It is an exhausting situation, to constantly push for better representation. This is a process. Occasionally that process will force steps back - but as long as the overall push is bigger than that, it will carry on.

For me, I do think that Alex is slowly getting a better deal as a character and I’ve enjoyed the latter part of her story arc in S4.

Does it mean it’s as good as it was or could be?

No, it doesn’t. But it also doesn’t mean - and this is my opinion, and believe it or not I’m okay if people watching don’t agree - pretty much all of S3 (honestly that is a clusterfuck of epic proportions) and the first half of S4 are about as bad as it can be.

Nicole has also had good representation though. There is a lot that resonates for me. A lot I wish I could’ve seen as a child growing up, not in my early 50’s.

Think about that.

I’m finally seeing good representation in my 50’s for the first time.

Albeit in a program that has far from stellar representation for a long time.

This isn’t the 2nd, or 3rd or however many times it has gone on for lesbian couples on TV.

That for me is a huge deal. Huge!

Like a black gay woman is going to be huge for some others.

However, it also means if the LI for Alex gets storylines that Flo deserved I won’t be pissed.

You can bet I will be. As will my wife.

We’ll undoubtedly rip apart the producers for it at home, as we’ve done so many times. Just because people haven’t seen it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been said.

I guess what I’m trying to say in all this rambling is I truly have no quarrel with people wanting to stay solely as Sanvers fans. I just want to be allowed to go beyond that (and I would love nothing more than Sanvers endgame), even if that seems counterintuitive to some of you.

I’ve never posted anything with ulterior motives to attack any group of fans. It might have appeared that way for some - but truly I simply posted something on my timeline as a general observation. It was not directed at anyone per se.

I’ve realised that it’s been construed as such, but those who do know me also know I will never disparage others intentionally. If it comes across as such, it was - believe it not - unintentionally done. If you don’t want to believe that, I can’t change that, but I do ask you don’t keep saying stuff about it to me.

I’ve not seen much beyond interacting with some mutuals on Twitter.

It appears there is a far greater history going on than I could have ever imagined between some people.

So for now - I’m going to post my usual things but to try to avoid posting directly to followers except family & friends away from the fandom.

To make it absolutely clear I never intend or intended to get pulled into a war of words with anyone.

I just want to enjoy Sanvers - and for me personally, go beyond that.

It’s just I’ve seen so much progress for the LGBT community, even if it could be faster.

I saw lesbian activists disrupting the BBC news in protest to the government of the time and Clause 28.

I saw the news report of the bomb that went off in a gay Soho nightclub.

I watched friends become stigmatised for being gay men at the start of the AIDS crisis.

I saw people fighting HIV & later AIDS & some dying as a result.

I’ve seen this and far more. I’ve actively campaigned on issues ranging from animal rights to LGBT rights, when the T wasn’t even part of the acronym, to nuclear disarmament and far more.

I’ve seen more positives finally coming about in the last 18 years than anything that’s gone before it.

We’ll face steps backwards. Some will be greater than others, but make no mistake, the strides forward are bigger.

Activism for better representation isn’t just something to hinge on one TV storyline or show - it can just be about that of course - but life is messy. It takes steps in many different directions for many different people.  

If people were offended, then I am saying sorry.

It has though been difficult to become embroiled in something that is far further reaching than I had any idea about.

One of the perils of being so new to the fandom I guess.

And now I’m off to cuddle one of our cats.

[searingdestiny]

The Void stares back

So! I wrote a cross over between Undertale and Doctor/Gallifrey. I used Braxiatel and I used W.D Gaster from Undertale and the Void as a setting.  This is fan fiction of the highest degree and I own none of these characters.

I had fun writing this and I hope you have fun reading it! I apologize for grammar I am not the best at it but I do hope you like it! I had to add the wingdings in as tumblr does not have that font I apologize translations are at the bottom! 

The Void stares back

Braxiatel had been invited onto the space station that observed the Void as safely as was possible. He had heard about the station for quite some time and many had shown interest in it but currently no one wanted to go. The Void had its dangers and mysteries that others just did not want to interact with. Braxiatel on the other hand felt as if this was a perfect opportunity to see something no one else wanted to. Rarely did something this interesting pull at his curiosity but it did for some reason as he ventured forth towards, what to many, was considered the unknown.

The space station was very top of the line as Braxiatel made landing procedures he could see the hole they mentioned in the letter. It was a perfect sphere and had the uncanny valley affect of being a part of space but not. He could not describe it in words as he stared at what was supposed to be impossible simply floating there in space. His eyes needed to adjust to the unusual sight as it was difficult to look at it for too long. He was snapped out of his thought process by a young woman's voice. “Lord Braxiatel?” she asked in a sweet tone as he turned to see who was addressing him and he had to admit he did not expect this.

Addressing him was what could only be considered a ghost.

It was bipedal or had been at one point in its existence currently it was floating a few inches off the ground. Its skin was an eerie smokey colour and had transparency as Braxiatel could see the wall behind her. The outline was visible however details were lost such as facial features and a presence.  Up until that moment Braxiatel assumed he had been alone on his voyage but there were others like this one floating about. Difficult to tell where they came from or what exactly they were before becoming this if they even had a before. In regards to its gender he assumed female because its voice was so high pitched and sweet like a bell. He coughed awkwardly before dressing it “Yes I am Lord Braxiatel” he reassured them before he looked about “Have we boarded?” he asked casually. The specter gave of a faint hint of happiness which meant that they glowed a very soft white colour before speaking again in a whispering tone. “Yes we have sir! You are the first creature to arrive here that has physical presence. However do not worry we have catered to your every need! You will be fine so please do not worry” it reassured him as it floated towards the door. “You may feel pressure once you leave but you should acclimatize after a few moments. Also our presence is much higher here so there may be sensations of paranoia I assure you everyone here is very busy and has no time for such things” it answered his confused look.  

Braxiatel followed it “You never introduced yourself” he said calmly as he set foot on the station the sudden pressure caught him off guard. He gasped when a sudden feeling of being light headed struck him making him stumble. He could have sworn he heard something but it was not the one who was guiding him. The specter floated about panicked at first until it realized he was just getting accustomed to the area. “I am deeply sorry! I thought the zones would have been depressurized by now! Ah! There it is” it said as oxygen began pumping into the area “A slight delay that is all” it explained. “As for my name? We don’t usually communicate with one another on this station as everyone has their function and we are limited to it” it thought for a moment. “You may call me Lya if you wish and refer to me as female it will make things easier on you” she offered.

It took Braxiatel a few minutes to compose himself as his head was still pounding from the lack of oxygen and he simply nodded. Once he was able to balance himself physically and mentally he understood what she meant by presence. He immediately felt hundreds of eyes on him even thought there were none. The entire place lit up like a bonfire but instead it was psychic energy as if the place was home to an entire mind field. He frowned a little as he glanced at who he now was to call Lya beginning to understand a few things. “What exactly are you Lya? I have never even heard of a species I can only refer to as ghosts...well...aside from the Gelth but you are not that type of species” he added folding his arms in thought. “You have undead qualities but you are much more coherent and intelligent than a supposed dead being” he pondered.

Lya giggled a little as his assumptions before answering his questions “Lord Braxiatel we are not ghosts or specters” she offered. “We are those who have lived within distance of the Void and such have lived as this since we became” she answered. She then paused “We have never truly been living entities Lord Braxiatel...bits and pieces of the Void spill out and they become us...” it was hard to explain but she was trying. “We are called the vacant” she finally offered “those that have no presence but exist and think for themselves as if they were a living being...but we are essentially the conscious form of the Void in small fractions” she concluded.

Braxiatel had been listening and found this both terrifying but exciting as to have something given form from nothing? This was unnatural and yet her he was interacting with it as if it were a real person. He smiled “Thank you for explaining this to me Lya I appreciate it.” he replied kindly as they began to walk through the station. It was as she said there were hundreds of similar entities of all shapes and sizes just floating about and interacting with objects as if they were nothing. It constantly shook his sense of what was natural and unnatural as they kept interacting with things he assumed they could not. He noticed that a few would look in his direction but they would look right through him and as of right now Lya was the only one to seem to have any freedom? She interacted with them and they communicated with her in cryptic whispers. Their voices left a shiver up his spine each and every time they spoke. It was like someone had a freezing dagger which was slowly, gently and deliberately being pressed, tip first, against his bare skin or along his spine. Eventually after about an hour of walking and explanations they came to the observation room.

Lya slowed down to a halt in front of a black line painted on the floor as she turned to face him her presence turning a gentle black. “Lord Braxiatel...beyond this point you will be alone...” she said “If I were to cross this line I would be reabsorbed back into the Void” her tone was terrified. “I need you to understand that despite what the beings beyond might think, yourself included, there is some type of presence in the Void. We have come from it so there must be something in there creating us that is what we are researching here. To see if we are from other universe, if we are truly deceased or if we are something else entirely” her tone softened. “Will you please let us know what you see beyond that line we would really like to know” she begged him “We asked a Time Lord because you have such a high mental state that we felt the Void would not affect you as badly as other species” she explained.

Braxiatel raised his hand to stop her talking and simply smiled slowly “Naturally I will let you know exactly what I feel, see and hear when I return. I do appreciate your letter giving intricate explanations of why our species is perfect for this little adventure. You have never asked another species to do this as you feared they would die instantly. You go above and beyond with care and privacy that even I have no idea what coordinates we used” he replied impressed. “I want to do this as I have heard nothing about it. I am curious about the vastness and supposed emptiness of the void so I wish to witness it with my own eyes” he glanced beyond the black line something felt like it was drawing him in.

Lya watched him hopefully and nodded agreeing with him “Then...I shall leave you to your viewing Lord Braxiatel. I shall be close by in case you have need of me but I will not be able to help you beyond this point” she answered sheepishly. “There is no other living thing beyond this point as far as we can tell. Good luck Lord Braxiatel” she floated past him remaining a few feet away keeping a distance from the line.

Braxiatel readied himself as he stood before the black line knowing he was inches away from the abyss of the Void. He took a deep breathe and stepped forward which felt like an eternity to happen. When he finally felt as if he had taken a proper step he looked ahead of himself and felt all the warmth leave his body.  This observation are was clearly built before they ever placed this ship into the void as it was just like the rest of the ship. It had chairs, tables and a large domed window that took up the front, he assumed, of the ship itself. Through this window Braxiatel could see only darkness. Not just any darkness but pure and absolute darkness unlike anything he had ever seen as he smirked to himself. He wondered if this was how others saw his soul? As black as the Void? As he pondered these questions however he couldn’t help but feel the timelessness of the area. Being a time lord meant being in tune with the ebbs and flows of time and space. Despite standing on a psychical place this place had no physical presence. It was like standing in a deep ocean a feeling of endlessness and depth that had no understanding. As for time?

There was none.    

For the first time in his entire existence Braxiatel felt completely and utterly isolated and alone. No time and no space existed here. His body felt heavy but was weighed down by nothing as he began to move very slowly towards the window. A shroud of dread filled his hearts as the only sound he could hear were the ones he was making internally. He attempted to speak but nothing came and he was shocked he was able to breathe. However he realized there was oxygen being fed into this room it just was not noticeable. It still felt like he was trying to breathe on a roller coaster where the air was there but it was so thin it barely existed to him. He had to take careful and steady breathes as he moved cautiously. Once he was in a position where he was looking directly into inky blackness he relaxed a bit. He was becoming comfortable with the feeling of emptiness around him and in some regards it was rather soothing.

Until he heard it. A familiar sound. The one he heard when he exited his transportation vehicle. Only this time it was as clear as day.

Braxiatel immediately felt his hearts stop for a second as he heard these...words? This was strange as he was very much alone and no one else was here with him. However there was no mistaking it someone had just spoken to him and he did not know how to respond. In the Void as Braxiatel looked on he saw something. This was impossible and yet it was happening a white shape became visible right in front of where he was standing. He could barely make it out but it appeared to be a face? No. A mask? As it came closer it was more distinguishable despite being unrecognisable as the features appeared melted and scarred. It had eyes, one of which was practically closed and long cracks down to its mouth? He could only make out a face for the time being but as he watched it move inhumanly fast for a place with no time he began to feel panic rise. The face examined him meticulously and with something akin to fascination. Braxiatel felt like a statue under observation at a museum of art the way this thing looked at him. No. That wasn’t quite right as something about this thing gave of a presence of incredible intelligence. Braxiatel was not being viewed from an artistic stand point he was being observed from a scientific mindset.

As it spoke again Braxiatel noticed no lip movements despite it having a line where he assumed a mouth was. The he realized that something else had appeared and was now resting on the glass that was currently keeping him safe. Hands? Yes! They were hands but they were just bones and for whatever reason they had a hole in each where the palm should be. Braxiatel swallowed anxiously there was a power this creature was exerting and it was not pleasant. Braxiatel noticed this time that the hands were moving and despite the motionlessness of its owner these were very expressive. His eyes widened as he realized what it was doing. He was speaking in sign language using these hands to emote and talk. Braxiatel slowly backed away as this creature did not look friendly and the hands were making quite threatening gestures.

Braxitel only noticed now that he had gained some distance from the being that there was an odd distorted sound coming from it which he assumed was it trying to speak. However Braxiatel felt he needed to leave now as he made his way back to the line. He could see the other side, the safe place, the place he belonged. As he made it back he took one last glance only to see the creature inside the vehicle now looking at him and it felt like looking in a mirror. Something intelligent was there and also something misguided by its own selfishness. Braxiatel had meet his other selves before but nothing compared with this thing. It appeared to give a big cruel smile as it laughed and vanished without a trace. The last thing Braxiatel heard from it was:

Once it was gone and those last strange sounds rung in his ears reality came crashing down around him. He was back on the station coated in sweat and panting heavily as the oxygen was regulated correctly. His eyes were wide and his hearts were palpitating rapidly in his chest which made him wince he needed to slow down. He didn’t even notice Lya was there as he was focused on the here and now time flooding back to him and space returning to normal. He looked at her eyes filled with dread and fear “N-never...N-never again...” he said standing unsteadily “N-no more...Nothing...” he repeated swallowing saliva as he was thirsty. “Water” he begged simply as she guided him away from the line and to somewhere safe where he could recuperate.

[irondadgroupie]

Bohemian Rhapsody: Chapter 2

A/N: Let me tell you, this chapter almost broke @intoresus and me :D We had such a hard time making the characters act like they were supposed to. And yes, who knew neck braces could prove to such an issue when designing the outline for what happens?

Years of combat experience had made James Rhodes someone that people used to form their stereotype of a war veteran: A little rough around the edges but still caring. A perfectionist but someone cool-headed, someone that could make rational decisions even in the face of fear.

That didn’t mean he wasn’t shocked getting an alarm about Tony Stark’s car seemingly being part of an accident, causing its emergency system to send a signal to the compound. He immediately checked the system for further information but that did nothing to ease his mind. He had seen Tony in the morning and knew the man did not have Iron Man armor or any part of it with him.

“Sometimes it feels like a call for trouble,” Tony had explained as they shared morning coffee. “When I have the nanobot storage unit on, I am constantly being wary, checking the surroundings and expecting something to attack. I know it doesn’t make much sense-”

“Taken how twisted your mind works, it makes surprisingly much sense.”

“Sometimes it’s nice to be just Tony and not IronMan, or have the responsibility of being Iron Man.”

Karma was hitting hard, it seemed, when Friday informed him that Tony’s agenda showed he’d been having a belated lunch with Mr. Parker before returning to the compound for the weekly training session. He had to assume the kid had been with him when it happened.

However, he did fulfill the war veteran stereotype in some way, because his voice was calm when he sent the data up to the emergency services and requested two fully equipped teams readied for immediate takeoff.

“And have an -“ He stopped, staring at the map for a second, his trained eyes scanning the area. The alert had come from a remote forest road, barely wide enough to allow two cars pass each other and with trees and hills and even a lake surrounding the signal site. There was no chance of getting even the smallest of helicopters to land somewhere close to the area.  

“I have two ambulances and a MICU prepared for them.” His conversationalist who’d just gotten to the same conclusion answered,

Rhodey was already on his way up when the man on the other line answered. “I’ll get them checked to the closest hospital, we can arrange immediate transport to the facility from there.”

“Thank you, doc.” He hoped they wouldn’t need any but he wouldn’t take risks in anything. Better be prepared for the worst then underequipped for the best.

The drive, even though at fast speed even for emergency cars, gave him much time to think about his best friend’s changes over the course of the past year.

In contrary to common belief, Rhodes had never considered Tony Stark a bad person. Difficult, yes, but never intentionally malicious. Sure, Tony had some major flaws the man himself was painfully aware of, which didn’t come as a surprise given how his childhood had went by. He still did not know the full extent of what being a young Stark had been like, Tony rarely told anything about his father other than “He was cold and never cared for me”. Apparently, anything good that was in Tony was thanks to his mother and family butler who gave the unhappy child all the love they had to spare. 

It was no wonder Tony had turned to alcohol and drugs during college to deal with his inner pain and adapted a “Live fast, die young” mentality which had continued until the experiences in Afghanistan reshaped him. Truth to be told, Tones fulfilled all “Hard shell, soft core” clichés: He intentionally portrayed himself as someone with a certain degree of arrogance, but in the end, Tony had the worst self-esteem he had ever seen. Maybe that was why Tony was so attentive with people who needed someone: he knew firsthand what it was like to be alone.  

It had come as no surprise that the man had quickly found admiration for Peter Parker in his heart, especially since the teenager hadn’t failed to remind Rhodey of a younger - and maybe a little less rebellious - copy of Tony himself. Seriously, the first time he saw Peter without a mask, he had pulled Tony aside and asked if paternity test had been done. Peter was smart, with a love for bad jokes as big as his appetite and a fast tongue, but he was also one of the most friendly and selfless persons that he’d ever met, and Rhodey had met a lot of people in his life. Tony shared the same wavelength, the same mindset with this kid, and Rhodey constantly pointed out how Tony had mentally taken over the role as the kid’s father figure. His friend always sneered and shook his head but still got the fond look on his eyes when ever Peter came into his line of vision, or was even mentioned.

How much he hoped they’d both alright.

“Okay, this is it.” He jumped out of the back of the ambulance he’d rode with, and his strategic mindset took over the worry they had no time for right now. His eyes scanned the area, and he immediately caught the black skid marks and the blood on the road, but no car.

It didn’t exactly take a genius to put one and one together.

“Car must’ve turned over to the lake. I want a team of two waiting here for further orders, and yet two other teams of two check over the area up and down the street. Check the shorelines. I’ll go down to check the car.”

This were his worst fears come true, the reason he’d taken the War Machine suit with him in the first place. But the signal had been sent around 15 minutes ago, so if they’re still in the car, they would’ve been without air for around ten minutes by now. And Rhodey wasn’t ready to find his best friend and his mentee drowned in the wreck of a car.

He suited up and flew off, years of combat experience taking over his mind. He calculated the angle and dove, thrusters steaming in the water but still propelling him downwards. He could feel the chill through the metal and he gasped reflexively. It was quiet aside from the silent hum as his suit fought forward. Thank heavens Tony had not focused all the updates on the Iron Man suit but every weapon Avengers used, even their support group was under his harsh jurisdiction. War Machine armor was originally designed for flying combat but Tony, being the worry-wart and opportunist, had perfected the air filtration system and made the suit waterproof. It expanded greatly the armors functionality and at a time like this, Rhodey wondered whether Tony had psychically predicted what would someday happen.

Black Audi came into view. Lights were out and the front door was broken. Even through the darkness it was clear the vehicle had taken a beating but survived relatively well.  

Rhodey braced himself, a part of him wanted to swim up and pretend he saw nothing but he had a responsibility. He had to make sure, he had to know whether Tony and Peter were there, floating lifelessly, beyond rescue.  

He turned off the thrusters and grabbed the sides of the door and peered in. The vehicle was empty aside from two jackets that had been thrown haphazardly to the back seat.

They had made it.

They could still be alive.

“They are not in the car,” Rhodey said into the communicator as he broke the surface. “Check the perimeter, I’ll see if I can get a thermal reading of them.”

He made the necessary adjustments and flew over the lake. Tony and Peter had made it out but there was no guarantee they had made it to the shore. In the worst case, they had both lost consciousness and were drifting in the current. It was improbable since the car was designed to endure crashes and the airbags had gone off. But if they both broken limbs, getting to the surface might have proved too arduous a challenge.

Rhodey did not check the entire water area since there was no reading in the proximity of the car. The current was not strong enough to aimlessly carry bodies.

“You found anything yet?” The man called to his team.

“There is dead deer in a ditch, right where the signal went off.”

“They must have hit it,” They came to the same conclusion. “Okay, good to know this was not an attack.”

“You found them yet, sir?”

“No, they don’t appear to be in the water anymore. I’m going to check the shoreline and see if I can spot something.”

“Roger that, we’ll check the forest, maybe they are trying to reach the road.”

“Unlikely but do that.”

He started flying again with a much lighter heart since he didn’t need to drag two lifeless bodies from the water. He knew the chances of finding both Tony and the kid unharmed were extremely slim but he could deal with injuries. As long as they both drew breath, anything could be fixed and dealt with.

The shore was surprisingly devoid of sand, grass took over the land almost immediately. It was certainly not meant for swimming or sunbathing.  

The scanners alerted him of two readings just below him.

Rhodey looked down and at first could not see anything amiss. But then his eyes found it, partly hidden by the grass, sheltered by trees, a pair cuddling close together.

“I found them!” Rhodey immediately called to his communicator and dove down. His suit clanked as he ran forward and leaped out when the metal opened. This was like in Afghanistan, seeing a small sign and then finding something much better than you had prepared yourself for.

“Tony!” The man shook his friend’s shoulder, goosebumps rose on his skin from the cold. Both Tony’s and Peter’s clothes were wet, chilly autumn air had done nothing to dry them but rather stiffened them against their skin. He set a hand on Peter’s face and was relieved the blue on his lips was not because of suffocation.

“They are both alive,” Rhodey pressed the communicator in his ear and positioned his fingers to Tony’s neck vein. “Yes, they’re breathing, I can feel pulse.”

“Good, that is all we can ask for at this moment. Anything else of note? Visible injuries?”

“Yeah, Tony’s hand is broken and Peter has a wound on his head that is slowly starting to clot. I assume they were both caused by the crash. I can’t say about inner injuries but they are both hypothermic.”

They were both white with traces of blue on their lips and under the nails. Tony had Peter in a tight grip, Rhodey assumed the man had tried to comfort the boy since body heat could not be shared through wet clothes. If anything, Tony was worsening both their conditions.

Rhodey felt awful having to separate them.

“I’m sorry,” He unclasped Tony’s arms around Peter’s shoulders and middle. “But they would separate you anyway.”

Rhodey tried to move the pair as little as possible so he resorted to pulling Peter away since the boy was lighter.

“Tony!” He kept the man in a halfway recovery position and slapped his face. “C’mon, wake up! Get up! Your kid needs you!”

Tony’s cheek showed a bit more color after the sharp hits but it had no effect on his level of awareness. Rhodey swore although he had not expected anything short of professional medical care to help. He took a penlight from jean pocket (never leave home without it).

“Stark’s pupils are responding to light,” he said to the communicator. “No sign of head trauma.”

He got up and moved to Peter’s side. As with Tony, he lifted Peter’s eyelids and shone the light into the boy’s eyes.

“Parker’s are unevenly blown, most likely a concussion. Could also be a neck injury if it was received in the crash.”

“I agree with the assessment. We’re now 30 seconds out.”

Rhodey could already hear them. He rubbed Peter’s shoulder and took off his jacket. He knew it most likely didn’t do difference in the timespan it would take for the professional help to arrive but it was something. He knew Tony would want him to put Peter’s needs first.

Finally, the team arrived with each member carrying either an emergency bag, several blankets, or both.  

“Alright, we have a risk for possible spinal injuries so we have to act quick but be extraordinary careful. Get an IV set for each of them, CC as a precaution and I want a preliminary report as soon as possible.”

Rhodey was more than glad Dr. McKane had been chosen as the head medic. Tony had made sure to hire only the best of the best - for obvious reasons - and that woman definitely deserved that reputation. After the battle in New York, she’d impressed James with her calm nature a lot - proving that you didn’t need a leading position in military to make you a cool-headed person. God knew how many of the younger medics would’ve freaked out at the amount of injuries they had to face during their time, not to mention the participation in all the high-risk rescue missions. If anyone would know what to do to get Tones and Peter up on their feet, it was her.  

He hated taking a step back in order to let the paramedics do their work, but he would only be in the way otherwise.

“Stark’s pulse’s rapid but strong. Right hand’s definitely broken, and given the swelling, structures are probably shattered. Has some more bruises at the TH 4 to TH 6 area and approximately a mild hypothermia, condition’s stable otherwise.“  

Rhodey let out a breath at the words of one of the younger medics working over Tony, professionally placing the neck collar. All of those were words he heard before; conditions he knew could get handled. After what he’d seen, things could’ve been far worse than that. It was a miracle the two of them were even still breathing.  

“Have a bag of warm saline and a round of beta-blocks ready, but I want to have a better read on vitals before we go on. “

Nodding simply, the small team of two went on freeing their patient from wet clothes and everything else that would hinder the leads from measuring correctly before attaching them and wrapping the man carefully in several blankets. Rhodey swallowed, but managed to look away, suddenly realizing that he hadn’t heard anything about Peter’s condition as of now. McKane seemed to notice, too.

“Status report?”  

Only then one of the paramedics looked up, the other still occupied with placing the neck support and getting rid of the clothing covering the kid’s chest. Someone seemed to squeeze Rhodey’s heart in his chest. Peter didn’t appear huge to begin with, but in this condition, motionless, with two medics eagerly working over him, he just looked incredibly small. It was year-long training that stopped him from getting nauseous at the sight, especially when they moved the breathing bag over the kid’s face, forcing air into the teenager’s lungs.

“Pulse’s weak and sluggish, breath’s labored and rattling. No hints for spinal injuries, but he’s definitely in for a concussion and a moderate hypothermia.”

“His chest’s starting to bruise too, we have to assume he was under before we came here.”

This time, it was harder to ignore his stomach knotting. Not just because of how much less promising Peter’s condition sounded, but by the horrifying image of how Tony must’ve used up his last bits of strength to save the kid’s life. Biologically/ juristically or not, Peter was like a child to him, and no parent should ever have to be forced to fight first-handedly for the life of his children. This was one of those things that’d break every normal human being.

“GCS?” McKane asked, still facing the two medics working on Peter, but Rhodey saw that she listened to the fast beeps coming from the monitor set on Tony’s side simultaneously. She simply nodded, giving the assigned paramedics the agreement to administer the prepared drugs.

“Solid nine currently.”  

“Try to bring his ox-stats up, his heart’s probably only in need of some more oxygen, and give him a bag of warm saline, too.”

Her eyes went over to Tony again, accessing his condition. The dancing lines on the monitor settled down a little, and together with the slow rhythm played by Peter’s heart monitor, the symphony sounded almost like that of a single healthy person.

The metaphor appeared cruel in that context, given how both their bodie’s still rested motionless and pale on the grass.

Minutes passed without positive changes. Both Tony and Peter were swaddled in blankets and paramedics held the warm saline bags high in their hands, trying to keep the line unhindered. Tony had on an oxygen mask, providing him 100% O, they had hope it would calm his heart from working overtime. Peter, however, was still being bagged, his breathing and O-Stats did not pick up even after minutes of trying.  

McKane rubbed her forehead.  

“We are not getting any further here, it’s more important to start transporting. Intubate Parker, we need to preserve the airway.”

The paramedics who had been in charge of keeping the ambubag in place and squeezing the valve, nodded. Rhodey watched as one gave another the full duty of giving Peter air while he dug through the bag to select a breathing tube that would suit the boy. He had hoped it would not come to this but he tried to reason it was better for Peter - he did not need to like it. Tony was badly off, sure, but at least he breathed by himself and that was a huge comforting point.

Tony’s heart monitor picked up a little.

“He is coming to,” A paramedic called to the doctor who turned around and crouched beside her employer.

“Mr Stark?” She set a hand on his shoulder and rubbed her knuckles into his bare sternum. “Mr Stark, can you hear me?”

Tony grunted in pain and confusion and struggled to open his eyes. He forced his lids up to allow dim sunlight to pass.

“Hello, Tones,” Rhodey rubbed his friend’s arm through the blankets comfortably. “We’ve got you, you’re going to be alright, just rest.”

The drugs that had been administered awoke Tony’s senses little by little but it was still like everything was behind a mist curtain. He was not certain of the day, all he could focus on was the feeling of numbness, every single joint and muscle was either in flames or cold. He moved his fingers and Rhodey grabbed them gently.

“Do you remember what happened?” McKane asked clearly but not too loud. She didn’t offer an answer, she wanted to measure how aware the man was.  

Tony squeezed his eyes shut and gulped, the memories suddenly rushing back into him. Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality. Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see.... Then a sickening squeal. Water. The Shore. Peter.

Peter!

“Where-? Peter?” The man’s voice was weak, raspy but he freed his hand from Rhodey’s grip to try and reach for the boy. He tried to look for him, too, but the neck collar kept his movements minimal, he couldn’t nod or shake his head. It was panic inducing; he could only see the blue sky and the faces of his saviors if they bent right over him.  

He had to get it off.

“No!” Rhodey was immediately dragging his hand away from the support. “You have serious injuries, Tones. We need to keep your head in place until we get an X-Ray.”

“Peter is safe,” McKane answered diplomatically, knowing that the man wouldn’t calm down before having an answer.  

Tony was getting more aware each second and the doctor knew it was only a matter of time before the man heard the beeping of the monitors on Peter’s side.

“Mr Stark, Peter is being cared for-”

Tony stretched his hand out a little further, and finally, touched some skin that wasn’t his. It was cold and soft and the fingers were so thin. He tried squeezing what he believed to be the kid’s hand but wasn’t sure whether or not his fingers had actually moved.

“I need a smaller tube,” The paramedic behind them said as he moved back to the bag and the other placed the mask over Peter’s face again.  

Tony’s eyes widened at the sounds. They were so different than the ones coming beside him. Too slow.

“What is that?” He tried to move his eyes.

“O2-Stats are not picking up.”

McKane turned back for only a second but it was enough for Tony to realize they weren’t talking about him.  

“Is he on 100% oxygen?”

“Yeah.”

“Then it’s the water, we have to wait until compound to suck the rest of it out.”

“I-” Tony’s face paled. “I got it out. I made sure I got the water from his lungs.” His voice broke.  

The doctor tried her best placating tone.

“Peter is fine, he just needs a little help breathing.”

The boy’s monitors were still screaming, a second notification turning up on screen.

“Pulse is slowing down, we’re risking bradycardia.”

“Give him 2mg of epinephrine, let’s see if it revives him a bit.”

“Peter,” Tony whispered, his own pulse quickening up to make up for all the beats Peter’s heart was missing.  

It was like his own heart was stealing the energy Peter’s had.  

While Peter’s slowed down, Tony quickened too much.

“Mr Stark, you need to calm down.”  

Calm down? How was he supposed to calm down hearing that Peter’s heart got slower every second? His thoughts shattered as he realized that he hadn’t helped at all.

His boy was still dying.

“Peter- safe- Peter.”

“Peter is safe, I assure you.”  

Tony said nothing more, his eyes closed and the heart monitor started screaming along with rapid blinks.

[austinonymous]

Coping, Now that You’re Gone

Title: Coping, Now that You’re Gone

Fandom: Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn

Ship: Haurchefant Greystone x Male Warrior of Light

Characters: Artoirel de Fortemps, Emmanellain de Fortemps, Miqo’te Warrior of Light (Ahleh’li)

Rating: T (because I’m paranoid)

AO3 Link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/19191988

Summary: The events of the Vault... he'd had barely any time to think about what he had just lost when he'd rushed after the Archbishop. Now, the drinking habits he'd picked up in his adopted home of Limsa Lominsa were coming in handy.

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        Ishgard was a singularly cold city; he doubted Ser Aymeric would deny him that.

         It was both fascinating and ridiculous to think about- a combination of brilliance and frustration. Those who built the city saw fit to place it on a lonely outcropping of rock, with shear cliffs on all sides that subjected the entire city with near constant freezing winds that whistled by with blistering ferocity. It was one of the few reasons that the dragons had yet to approach from any direction besides the sole connection to the rest of Coerthas that was the bridge; doing so was exhausting for any beast and would leave the weakened creature a sitting duck for Ishgard’s mighty cannons.

         The citizens of the city were lucky in that the winds had maintained consistent patterns, allowing the Holy See to map them over the years to find the few ways their chocobos and flying ships could ferry people to and from the city.

         Of course, that did little to help with the swirling frost that circled the city, constantly seeking any purchase in its walls and towers. The snow tried to claw its way inside, and the only reason the city wasn’t buried under several inches of snow was the updrafts drove the snow away mostly. The sky fought itself every second, miraculously leaving the noble and poor alike safe from the worst of the weather’s attempts to encase them in an ever-deepening layer of ice.

         Despite that safety net, when one gazed on it, the city looked desolately cold. While the towering architecture of his home city was grand and its cathedrals and halls still filled him with awe, the endless stonework made living here when in a foul mood near insufferable. He didn’t have the glistening sea at his doorstep like back in Limnsa Lominsa, nor the pure white stone mixed in with the more traditional grey stone quarried from the cliffsides nearby. It was startling how refreshing a simple breeze felt while standing on the terraces of his adopted home, brushing up against him and caressing his cheek like a fisherman coming in from a long night’s work. The salt of the bustling harbor did not cling to his arms and mix into the fur of his tail or ears here, and the boisterous sounds of drunken song from a dozen barely controlled pirate crews could not be heard.

         If he was there, across the continent, Ahleh’li would bury his sorrows in booze and drunkenly dance on table-tops with the sailors of the city. Merry step-dances and improvised line-dances as a random sailor played a beat out on the well-worn skin of a drum as the wicks of the candles burned away. His old guild-master from the Arcanists guild would likely chastise him for not spending time on his incantations and spellwork surely, but Jacke would cheer him on before finding a secluded balcony for his other Rouges to share a pint and try and cheer him up.

         It was funny- Ishgard was where he was raised, but in this moment of great sorrow it did not feel like home.

         His companion shifted a bit to his right, a bit uneasy. Ahleh’li smirked a bit at the young elezen- though to be fair Emmanellain was actually a little older than himself, “Hn- Ya ‘een a wee s’bit antsy there Mister,” he tried to tease the man before frowning as his speech came out in the more slurred accent he’d gained while with the Rouges and the sailors of the port city. He coughed, forcing his brain to focus a bit more so that he wouldn’t appear quite so inebriated.

         Really, he hadn’t had that much liquor. Over his time getting into drinking contests with the large and broad-chested Roegadyn, Ahleh’li had learned to stomach enough to topple the seven-foot-tall race. It must have been quite some time since his last drinking contest to be getting this affected already.

         Oh yes. His last had been with… with…

         Ahleh’li took another swig of his ale, savoring the taste as it burned down his throat, Emmanellain sighing as he did so, “My dear Warrior of Light, I know how you must be feeling- gods, I mean I didn’t know him well, but he was my half-brother still,” He said depressingly as he took a small sip of the Forgotten Knight’s ale. “Is this truly the best way to deal with this? I know the docks of Limsa Lominsa are much different than here but… this seems… ineffective.”

         Ishgardian nobility and their weak stomachs- what Ahleh’li wouldn’t give to have Captain Jacke here, or Towering Stone, maybe Thancred too. It was too bad his fellow Scion was out scouting the Garlean’s movements.

         “Well, see here Emmanellain, s’not supposed to be effective. That’s the whole point; you drink till your dancing on the rafters and forgetting about whatever it was that got you into the tavern to begin with,” Ahleh’li said pointing a finger at the young noble elezen.

         “That does not sound healthy in the slightest,” Came the calm yet dour tones of the older Fortemps brother. The Miqo’te looked back with a raised eyebrow, tail swishing behind him as he gazed up at Artoirel.

         He took a moment before humming, “Perhaps not, yet here we all are. Your city is being forcibly changed from a theocracy, discontent and distrust bubbles under its surface, and everyone has dead to count.” Ahleh’li sighed, gazing into the mug in front of him, “What I wouldn’t give to be fighting the Garleans again in Mor Dhona. No secret revelations that complicated your feelings besides how truly massive assholes they all were.”

         Artoirel sighed and pushed a black bang out of his face, “Ser Aymeric sent me to find you; he’s quite worried for you, as is young Alphinaud.”

         That earned the noble a finger-wagging, as Ahleh’li’s ears perked up at the mention of Alphinaud, “Now now, that young man is only a couple years younger than me, so be careful what comments you make about his age Mister Heir Apparent.”

         Scoffing, the noble shook his head and smirked, “Unlike yourself I doubt Alphinaud can down a half dozen of the inn’s strongest ales without vomiting up his guts in the corner. I think I can call him young at least in that respect.”

         Ahleh’li nodded solemnly, before snickering. Alphinaud was really just too cute for his own good- not that it was an unattractive quality. It was endearing, and he treasured the other arcanist’s friendship dearly. Especially after everything the both of them had been through ever since escaping Ul’dah.

         The mood had lightened for a moment, but Artoirel soon sent it crashing back down again as he raised the issue once again, “I have to agree with Ser Aymeric and Alphinaud however; this is not what you should be doing to cope with the sacrifice of our dear brother.”

         His fingers clenched around the handle of his mug, but Ahleh’li managed to hold his fury in, “What should I be doing? Shall I go get revenge and bring those who hurt him to justice? Well, did that already and it did jack shit for me. “

         Emmanellain sighed as he set down his own mug and looked at the younger man, “We don’t need to drown our sorrows like this at least. You have many friends around you to take solace in. You’re even slowly finding members of the Scions you lost, aren’t you? Even if Haurchefant is gone, you need not suffer alone.”

         Ahleh’li’s breath hitched at the utterance of Haurchefant’s name, his alcohol-addled mind immediately conjuring his cheerful face to mind. Steaming mugs of cocoa in hand as he offered them refuge after being forced to run. A wide smile on his face as he playfully teased the smaller Miqo’te before they both downed another glass of ale. The wisps of frost puffing from his mouth, swirling past a face framed by disheveled hair and shirt hanging dangerously low on his shoulder as he lay over Ahleh’li. The red on his cheeks as Ser Aymeric gave them both knowing smiles as they shuffled in to plan for the combat operations to come. The gentleness of hands calloused from battle, carefully holding his own as they lay in front of a fireplace together in his quarters.

         It had been dream-like, despite all the trials they were going through. And like most of Ahleh’li’s dreams, it had ended by turning into a nightmare.

         A hand was suddenly placed on his shoulder and Ahleh’li looked up at the sympathetic face of Artoirel, startled. The noble sighed, looking away before speaking, “I know that this is all quite unwanted, and you likely wish to grieve without the rest of us. The Fury knows that Father has been secluded in his study ever since he received the news. This still, still it is not healthy. You, Alphinaud, Haurchefant, Ser Aymeric, and Estinien, have supported each other throughout this ordeal- throwing away their companionship now amid grieving is a mistake I wish to not see you make.”

         His tongue darted out and licked his lips to wet them; Ahleh’li did not enjoy this conversation in the least bit. He blinked, suddenly realizing what Artoirel was talking about, “I… I take it Alphinaud is not handling the disappearance of Estinien well?”

         The older noble shook his head, grim, “As someone with a younger brother, I know the sort of admiration he had for Estinien. Even if the Dragoon’s absence is not exactly abnormal, the lack of communication from him is. And with the Dragonsong War still going until peace negotiations start, his absence bodes ill.”

         That did not sound good. Ahleh’li had grown to respect the Dragoon over their time together traveling Dravania and Albathia’s Spire, and for him to be missing after all this mess with the Holy See went down…

         Still, that wasn’t the worst of it. Really, after everything they’d been through, here Ahleh’li was drowning his sorrows in booze while he left his elezen friend and people like Ser Aymeric who had been nothing but supportive to mourn Haurchefant and fret over Estinien’s disappearance alone.

         After Haurchefant had passed, only wishing to see a smile on Ahleh’li’s face as his eyes closed forever.

         Ahleh’li groaned, staggering to his feet as he dragged his sleeve across his mouth to wipe away any of the froth left there by his ale. The two brothers looked at him curiously and the Miqo’te gave them his best smile, raising his mug in one last gulp of ale, “To the greatest knight this realm has seen, and to a future where his death won’t have been fruitless.”

         Perhaps it wasn’t a convincing toast, or smile. But that didn’t matter. If he was to move on, he needed to do so with a smile. Getting through this grief intact would be his personal monument to a man who’d saved his life.

[marypoppinswasmyfatherbitches]

I found the way Gamora acted in Infinity War really sad. I mean,in the Guardians movies,girl was "An evil planet guy that can warp reality is messing with my friends, I can handle it". But when it comes to Thanos,Gamora is terrified of him to the point of asking Peter to euthanize her. We heard of the awful things he did to her. Besides,I find really interesting that Gamora threatened Mantis with a broken jaw(that hurts),and felt the need to defend her from nonsense Drax said to her.

Wow, these are all really interesting points, parallels, and questions. I apologize that it’s taken me over a week to respond. Winter tends to put me in funk, plus I wanted to take time to really think about the wording of my answer. I do really appreciate any kind messages, especially so unique and respectful. I’ll try to answer both best as possible.

Of course I technically agree that Gamora’s scenes, narrative, lines, and mindset in Infinity War were incredibly sad. “Sad” as in tragic and heartbreaking. But if you mean, the way I think you’re implying, “sad” as in “regressive” or “cowardly” or “out-of-character” (meaning, “It’s so sad how the writers changed and ruined such a good character), I don’t see it that way at all. I think her plan, her actions, and what she sadly made Peter promise were perfectly fitting. It may not seem like it on the surface at first, but it was unbelievably brave and made sense given the circumstances.

In comparing the events to how Gamora reacted to Ego in Volume 2, I understand what you meant, since it’s true that Thanos and Ego are extremely similar in their cruelty, manipulation, using people as tools, disregard for life, twisted versions of love, and overall genocidal nature. ;) But the villains’ goals, and the plots of the films, are still very different, and the situations the Guardians, especially Gamora, are placed in are very different.

For starters, Gamora (and Peter and Nebula and all the others, except for Mantis) had just met Ego. Gamora didn’t fully know or understand what he was capable of, or the extent of his power. Her first thought after finding the skeletons, after learning Ego’s true intentions from Mantis, and realizing Peter was in serious danger, was probably an instant adrenaline rush to save her best friend and do whatever else they could to stop this evil celestial guy. She’s a good and moral person, and at the time was a newly-adjusting hero. There was no time to think or plan, just act. There was literally no reason in that situation for Gamora to ask someone to kill her. Ego wasn’t after her personally, she had no secrets for him to extract from her, and she wasn’t a lifelong expert on his methods and personality, hadn’t been fearing for years him coming back for her. The situation was much different with Thanos, where Gamora knows him inside and out. She knows his game, knows his goals, and knows just how goddamn powerful he is. One conversation with Mantis about Ego isn’t equivalent to a lifetime with Thanos. Ego was a sudden new baddie they had to take down right now (not only because he was torturing Peter, who she loved, but also because, by using Peter as a battery, the expansion and destruction was already taking place without a moment to spare).

And before going back to Thanos, I want to throw in there real quick that even if Gamora did understand more about Ego and had known about him for years, I think her first instinct still would’ve been “take him down, fuck him up” because again, he had Peter. There’s an insane adrenaline high you get when someone you love is in trouble. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t afraid, or knew for certain she could handle it, facing a fucking god. Of course she was scared. It’s natural. But she did it anyway, because getting their friend back was all that mattered. “Leave no one behind. Give me my insufferable, vain, sweet and dorky douche leader and friend BACK, you creep!” She’s extremely protective of our Star-Lord. ;)

But back to the events in Infinity War, I don’t think Gamora reacted that differently. When Thor told them Thanos was headed to Knowhere, Gamora didn’t refuse to help because “I/we can’t handle it.” She didn’t huddle in a corner of her bedroom. She didn’t try to fly the spaceship as far away as possible. She had an extremely similar “Let’s do it!” attitude as she did with Ego, if not a touch more afraid and less confident, for the factors I already mentioned - she knows this monster extremely well, and had probably feared for 4 years him coming for her, for Nebula, for Peter, for her friends and new family. It’s a fear that’s plagued her nightmares for a large chunk of time, and now it could become a reality. And yet she STILL said, “We need to stop Thanos!” not “Count me out.” She knew what they had to do, and wasted no time. Unlike on Ego, they weren’t already on the planet, and they had some traveling to do to get to Knowhere, and that gave her time to think and plan and make Peter swear to do something dreadful if things went badly. IF. Not definitely. IF Thanos captured her. She never said, “If we see Thanos, kill me.” or “Before we get to Knowhere, kill me.” or “I’d rather you kill me than do this mission.” No. It was “If Thanos gets me, kill me.” She didn’t want to die, didn’t say or believe her capture would undoubtedly happen. She just knew it was a possibility. Once they got to Knowhere, she went against Peter’s plans to go right so that she could fight Thanos hands-on, stabbed and tried to kill him herself. She was just as badass and brave as in Volume 1 and Volume 2, against Ronan and Ego.

The only difference you point out is that she asked Peter to kill her, and yes, that was huge and upsetting and awful, but that was only if captured, and again, it wasn’t a cowardly move whatsoever, but an extraordinarily brave and selfless and in-character move. Not only did Gamora refuse to be Thanos’ tool any longer, but she knew that he would be able to get the location of the Soul Stone out of her. She didn’t know that he had Nebula, that he would torture her sister to get the information, but she knew he could get it out of her somehow. Thanos and Gamora both know each other psychologically, so what she made Peter swear, despite breaking her heart (and the audience’s hearts), was one of the smartest, bravest, most tactful plans. It wasn’t her fear overtaking her. I feel like that’s the interpretation of a movie viewer who doesn’t understand what she’s been through or who she is. Honestly, that decision was Gamora looking at the situation logically, a situation she likely never stopped imagining since her escape, and resigning, if captured. It wasn’t because she was scared, it was because she saw it as the only solution to stop him from getting all 6 stones. She was trying to save the universe. To save all those random, innocent lives. So I think it worked.

But ya. Very sad. I still tear up, both watching it, and at all the unspoken implications. :(

Okay, tackling your point about how Gamora treated Mantis in Volume 2 seeming contradictory in different scenes, which shouldn’t take nearly as much time. :P And since you continued it a little bit in your second message, I’ll copy/paste that here so others (and yourself) know what’s what.

Continuing. Okay,Mantis had a scary power activated by touch,but one wouldn’t want to defend someone they threatened with maiming (?) from nonsense like “ugly”. Or maybe I’m missing something. Anyway,I love this blog. 💓💖

Again, interesting point, but I don’t see these two things as contradictory either. Yes, Gamora threatening Mantis with a broken jaw if she read her emotions by touching her was harsh and unnecessary, but…1) It’s possible Gamora was exaggerating and wouldn’t have literally hurt Mantis, and2) Even if Gamora was dead serious, and would have reacted violently if her privacy was invaded that way, literally breaking Mantis’ jaw or arm, Gamora had just met Mantis and didn’t instantly trust her, and3) Gamora is (even moreso back in the beginning of Volume 2) an extremely closed-off and private person, with very complicated emotions, and has been constantly training herself to hide and guide those emotions practically her entire life. To Peter, Mantis reading his emotions was odd and awkward and embarrassing. To Gamora, it was more than scary, it was fucking terrifying. No one is allowed inside her head. It seemed at the time, the only person she ever opened up to was Peter, and even then she had a lot of communication issues and was deflecting very often, still keeping so much hidden. It was a natural reaction to “If I touch your wrist, I’ll know what you’re feeling.” In Gamora’s eyes, pre-romantic-relationship, pre-major-events-of-Volume 2, has-only-been-out-of-Thanos-clutches-for-a-few-months Gamora’s eyes, that’s a big fuck no you don’t. It was an in-the-moment reaction, but it didn’t mean that she hated Mantis or deep down really wanted to hurt her. It was simply her first instinct to stop this stranger from getting into her brain, especially in front of an audience (Peter and Drax). Gamora doesn’t even understand her own emotions, she’s not gonna have them spelled out by this weirdo. :P

Cut ahead to later when Gamora is softer to her and says, “You’re not ugly” and scolds Drax - I think that was fine and fitting. I know not much time had passed, and at this point Gamora was trusting Ego even less, so a viewer might think by extension, Gamora was trusting Mantis less. And I think that’s a little bit true, since she admitted she could tell Mantis was hiding something, but Gamora could also probably sense that Mantis was genuine in her naivete and innocence, and was being used and brainwashed by Ego much like how Gamora and Nebula always were by Thanos. Aside from that, Gamora is just kind and sweet toward those that seem like they need defending, or those who are childlike and innocent (her sweet and precious goodbye to Baby Groot when they first left Berhert that morning to go with Ego rings a bell). Gamora and Drax disagree and bicker a lot, as do all the Guardians, and Gamora just instantly wanted to protect this poor girl from his bluntness, from anyone needlessly hurting her feelings. Gamora’s a nice person, despite how she can often become cold and defensive, and wouldn’t tolerate Mantis touching her and using her powers without permission. (Plus, Gamora didn’t scream at Drax, just gave him a ‘Hey, come on, that’s not nice’ glare and tone.) Both scenarios, again, felt natural.

WOW, that was a way longer response than was probably warranted, but your messages made me think a lot! I hope I expressed this well. If I think of any more points, I’ll add them later. I’m sorry again that these friggin’ essays took almost 2 weeks. I don’t want to seem like a hypocrite, excitedly telling folks in my FAQ to please send me messages, and than seeming like I don’t pay them much attention. I’m just a procrastinator, especially during this horrid season. ;)

Thank you so much for the sudden messages, and saying that you love the blog! I’m super glad! Very appreciated and flattering. It’s neat to learn that you value my opinion enough to send me these thoughts and questions! ^_^

(I’ll respond to your newer message about that infamous scene with Peter on Titan, and how Gamora likely would’ve reacted if the roles were reversed, at a later time. Probably Sunday. I hope that’s all right. Take care!)