#Loki tv show critical

[sylvies-kablooie]

new idea i just had

so sylvie will inevitably find out that loki can see her from his point of view. and she’s also working customer service. so do you think whenever something outrageous is going on, she looks off into the distance like jim from the office, knowing that loki can see what she’s going through?

[lucianalight]

Loki God of Stories - A Comparison between MCU and Comics

I’ve never thought I (=Luci @lucianalight ) would say this but MCU did the God of Stories arc right. Having the whole picture after the finale you can see what they were trying to do and how the series was inspired from AoA arc. The series explores a number of themes.

(I’m along for the ride because I can’t just pass up the opportunity to faceplant into Luci’s metas -Hollow @theitcharchives ) 

Control vs Freedom

Chaos vs Order

Finding Purpose and Believing in One's Self

Science-Fiction, and Magic being a Powerful Lie: Approaches to Storytelling

Being Worthy of One’s Own Power

Breaking the Cycle and Rewriting Reality

Conclusion

Congratulations! You've reached the end of this lengthy meta. While I (=Luci) was thinking about writing it, I stumbled upon a post that had a totally different viewpoint than mine. I asked for Hollow's opinion regarding the topic, and after reading their answer I realized it is actually the perfect conclusion this meta can have. 

"God of stories as a librarian would be", as the s2 writer said, does make sense. If Loki gives life to the timelines, then he gives life to everything in them, and allows people to write their own stories, branching instead of having to follow one single "sacred" timeline. Calling him a god of fate and destiny would be counterintuitive, especially for a norse hailing deity, because norse gods’ fates are already written, unable to branch from their path to and during ragnarok. MCU god of stories does make sense, and if we really don't want that title for him in the mcu, he could be the god of choice, but that sounds reductive. God of time also sounds reductive. The writer's definition mentioning myth Loki starts wrong, but it rings true overall and in the end.

MCU loki and comics loki are just two different kinds of gods of stories. Their approach is different but their soul (as I've kept saying for years -Hollow), needs to be and remains the same across universes to keep respecting the original myth loki. Loki is a trickster figure. Tricksters bring chaos, unbalance that leads to change. Pantheons without tricksters are stagnant and never grow, and since pantheons are reflections of the humanity that comes up with them, that's impossible. MCU Loki (by some miracle after the 2017-2021 ordeal) is a trickster. He changes the equation, quite literally erases it, replaces it with chaos that keeps growing. He allows the unbalance to exist and bring change instead of the rigid timeline that constrained. Tricksters allow for stories to happen–myth Loki is the catalyst of almost everything that happens in the norse myths. Comics Loki was and is the catalyst of almost everything that happens in the comics, directly or indirectly through decades of consequences. MCU Loki is now the literal central catalyst of everything that happens in the mcu, in a more direct (consequences of 2011 and 2012) and indirect (consequences of 2023) way. He deserves that title, because he is a chaos bringing trickster, just in a different way.”

(Am I mad when I look for new comics apparitions I have to sift through endless and inaccurate MCU articles? Yes. Am I mad at the 616/19999 confusion? Absolutely. -Hollow)

Finally it is also worth mentioning that while both universes tried to follow a similar arc, AoA generally did a far better job than the Loki series. Themes like friendship, identity, self-love and validating Loki's pain and grievances either lacked nuance or were non-existent in the show. Therefore AoA remains the superior story.

Co-written by Luci and Hollow

[meep-meep-richie]

I’m happy for Ke Huy; but i feel like Owen is robbed here; cause he slayed in S2 of Loki. But you know what bothers me the most?! The hate Owen mostly get for his roles; which i think is absolutely ridiculous; but whenever he actually does an amazing job he never gets the recognition either…cause someone else always did better..just give credit where credit is due🙏🏻

[frankensteins-mt-dew]

I am

Not prepared

For Thursdays chaos

[dani-luminae]

I mean I'd argue they already undid all that considering they killed him then dedicated 40 minutes to speedrunning that entire character evolution/redemption in the first ep of his namesake series...

[stromuprisahat]

Just wanna say FINALLY SOMEBODY ELSE WHO HATES LOKIUS AND SYLKI

For Sylki is obvious: toxic, toxic and they're basically the same person and I can't stand Sylvie (and no I'm not a man who hates women. I'm a woman too and I find her character annoying and useless to the story. You'll see how her character is going to be even more annoying at Season 2)

For Lokius, I felt I was the only person that didn't ship them. In the first episode you can smell the toxicity a mile away. Mobius is gaslighting him as FUCK. And the "Kill me like you killed your mother?" Bro? Wtf? 💀

I wouldn't say hate, that would require more emotional involvement on my part. Despise with a drop of loathing, if this is really supposed to be "it" for Loki.

I was surprised to find out I don't mind Sylvie in Lamentis, or even the episode after that. What ruined it was- ironically- episode with other Lokis. They pushed her ✨specialness✨ so hard! And then that fucking romance, when Sylki worked so well as How-the-fuck-would-you-call-being-friends-through-sharing-your-trauma-with-your-alternative-self?!

Suddenly Mobius is all "Aww, you're in looove!", which at that point sounds more like a 5 y/o yelling at another one, who doesn't want to be friends with him, because he's already friends with some girl! And as if that made it so, Loki goes from distrusting Sylvie through empathy to acting all subservient, when she's concerned?! WTF?!

I know he's mentally fucked up, and his stay with TVA certainly didn't help him, but how?!

(There's also the issue of Sylvie as a character. I might not be some hardcore MARVEL fan, but even I know there's a blond female Asgardian, called Enchantress, who has a history with Loki, so why would you take her attributes to create OC version of Loki, that refuses to even call herself Loki?!)

Mobius' only possible excuse is his own history with TVA. How far did their mindfuck reach? Is that why he doesn't seem to understand boundaries, and requires treatment he, himself isn't willing to offer Loki? Is that why he's preaching about friendship, while sending his alleged bad friend to torture?

If we don't put effort into finding excuses, he's just a dick. He's fully aware this isn't THE Loki, yet he's treating him as if the main timeline's deeds were his doing. Kinda ironic, when you relize this Loki is in TVA for NOT following the script, but apparently Mobius can have it both ways.

As for their relationship- Mobius is backed by a huge organization, while Loki's constantly reminded he can be killed as soon as they don't need him anymore. He has nothing, but Mobius' mercy to work with, and that's rather obviously conditional. Those are supposed to be foundations for a non-abusive relationship?!

Mobius uses his assets to mentally torture Loki, gaslights the hell out of him and manipulates him, while Loki's mostly defensive. There's zero effort to change anything about it, until Mobius starts to doubt TVA, and then he's fighting for himself. He's not taking down the organization that made him hurt his friend, he's taking down an organization that lied to him and others like him.

Loki's just giving, forgiving and forgetting, because he's a horrible, arrogant, selfish asshole, who never changes (Although another question is, when exectly was he so bad to need to change so much?).

[copingchaos]

it honestly feels like something that'd happen in the office tv show, this is michael scott level of trying to make a case

[iamnmbr3]

Hey I have a question. if Sylvie was raised knowing she was Jotun and had a loving and accepting home then how did she win the trauma olympics by having a harder life than Larry if she didn't have any of his traumas? Also, more importantly, why do the writers think I would care? 

You have to make a character feel real and write in a compelling way for their tragedies to feel compelling. Otherwise it's just empty words. I can write: "Once upon a time there was a character and his name was Bob and he had a life 10 times sadder than Loki. In fact it was the saddest life EVER that anyone had. The end.” 

But it is not a compelling or well written tragedy. Even though canonically in the story I have just written Bob had the saddest life ever, no one will feel more sorry for him than they feel for compelling and well written tragic characters. 

[solvicrafts]

WHY IS THIS FANDOM SO FUCKING UNHINGED?

I'd ask if y'all wanna talk to the manager or something but a bunch of you chucklefucks harassed the director from the first season into leaving and doxxed Tom Hiddleston, so I already know the answer.

[brsb4hls]

Adding to the Loki 2 reactions (with spoilers), slightly critical:

*I still like the aesthetic, the set design is great

*trying to figure out if Loki does not quite feel like Loki, because he actually is out of character or because he's in a completely different environment. I mean, he basically went from period piece-like drama and fantasy to SciFi

Plus he actually gets to built connections with other people here (outside of his family), because the show makes room for it, so that's kinda new. And has to be acted out somehow.

*Regarding those connections, I still feel Loki is a bit too emotional and touchy. Might be on purpose to make him more relatable.

(The "she'll be fine" comment after the car crash though felt Loki-ish)

He is more human in the TVA, which is connected to him not having access to his powers there.

I don't have much hope, but it would be neat to see a shift in his and Mobius' interactions once he gets to use his powers more again.

*On Mobius. Intriguing character, still don't completely buy into the buddy vibe. Mobius does care about Loki in a way and there might have been time to built somewhat of a friendship (I don't know, how much time actually passed in season 1).

But imo Mobius still treats Loki a bit like an asset. Their interactions in 2x1 are more about managing. Mobius maneuvers Loki around to keep him out of an unclear situation and in order to get information. He also needs Loki. As an Loki expert Mobius is fully aware how capable and valuable for a fight Loki is. Loki also knows more about what's happening to the time line, so Mobius has to keep him stable and work with him.

I still don't feel he takes him completely seriously. It all seems a bit patronizing.

Otoh Mobius takes a great risk to keep Loki. Might make sense given the overall situation, but is a bit inconsistent.

They should not have forced the buddy comedy imo. I would have enjoyed enemies reluctantly working together way more.

But Loki needs a friend so I take what I can get I guess. And at least it's Owen Wilson.

(I still would love to see Mobius nearly shitting himself over a display of Loki's true power. He is way to nonchalant, which comes with his position and experience of course, but well...)

*Yeah yeah, we all love OB, that's a given

*does time travel in the MCU work like this? Idc, it was funny. The simultaneous conversation with past and present OB was a nice touch, funny and well done.

*was the time slip a one ep kinda deal? Trailer indicates it wasn't. We'll see.

*Hunter B15 being the moral compass, important.

*That TVA council seemed a bit all over the place. What's the course of action apart from finding Sylvie? But yay, Liz Carr.

*So Sylvie thinks Loki's dead-dead? Makes sense, that she would try to built an actual life after everything. The post credit scene was a bit anvil on the head, but I get it in regards to Sylvie's journey.

Btw my guess is Loki will make a sacrifice in the end, but that will probably be leaving Sylvie and Mobius behind so they can have an actual life.

And Loki will be alone again.

It would fit. It would be dramatic enough, but Disney would still keep the character alive just in case. Loki's a cash cow after all.

[sylvies-kablooie]

the problem w loki s2: hey, where did the women go?

this is criticism so if that isn’t your thing you have been forewarned! i knew by episode 2 that something was off compared to s1 and i couldn’t quite place it. was it the sole focus on drab retro futurist TVA aesthetic instead of the colorful cinematography in s1? was it the focus being placed upon this Loom that we just found out is a thing and also Hey we have to stop it right now? Was it the lack of sylvie content?

but i think it just comes down to bad writing and whilst also trying to salvage what we DID get, i would feel dishonest to pretend that my problems with s2 arose from the finale alone. and while there were narrative inconsistencies between the seasons, i think a central error in s2 was sidelining the female characters.

s1 had beautiful themes, including self-acceptance and the power of love, and was building up to a ton of unanswered questions. a central theme of s1 (like it or not) was the connection between sylvie and loki. it was intended by waldron and herron from the start to be a romance, but beyond the romantic aspect, sylvie was the driving force of the show. she’s the variant the TVA is chasing, she’s the one who reveals that the TVA is a lie and makes everyone question what they were taught, it’s her that plunges the blade into HWR and opens the multiverse- and it’s no secret that in s2 she was largely off screen, only to show up at key plot points and kind of make things difficult rather than allow a further explanation into her character. and i could and might make a whole post on the sidelining of sylvie, but also- renslayer.

we saw a lot of renslayer in s1! she was pretty damn integral to the plot. her connection with mobius was fascinating, her dedication to doing what she saw as the right thing even when she learned all her gods were dead, her willingness to prune her best and maybe only friend to protect the big TVA lie- that was captivating. she’s also the first character we get to see the real non-TVA life of! she’s a principal at a school! and what did we get from her in s2?

she throws the book at victor, we learn she was his general and she’s Mad, and then exiled to the void. she’s barely there this season despite being central to s1! why, when you have an actor as talented as gugu mbatha-raw, would you not take advantage of that! we see threads of what COULD have happened in her storyline- her alliance with miss minutes, realizing maybe they never needed him at all- but at the end she’s pruned, thrown in the void and That’s That’s, stay tuned to see if anything happens in one of the endless future installments. we get that amazing I’m order line, and then what? and what type of order is she even representing? why is she so willing to toss mobius to the curb? you see why we need more development here?

b-15 met a similar fate. actually, i was really excited at the start of s2 to see her get her moment defending the new branches, realizing those were people, seeing the grief on her face; remember, sylvie showed her her life on the timeline, so this is personal for her. but she’s also quickly regaled to the side after her speech in the war room. she was a doctor, she is VERITY WILLIS, but do we get into any of this? No! (I also didn’t like her willingness to negotiate with Dox after the bombed the timelines, saying deep down I know you’re good right after we watched her cry over the devastation that had brought to the timelines, but maybe that’s another point)

and dox? what’s the deal with her! we are introduced to this strong general with a weird connection to brad, someone who is willing to go against TVA orders to bomb the timelines in the defense of what she believes is right, but then- squashed in a cube. that’s that. no examination into why she would be willing to betray the TVA in that way but also NOT join renslayer, no explanation into what was going on w brad.

(brad is worth a whole separate post but this is focusing on the ladies so just keep that in the back of your mind)

and back to sylvie. i saw some people point out how gross her being frozen during the final battles between her and loki was; how it eliminated her agency and allowed the men to have a Serious Talk. i have to say i agree with that judgement. in this season we get to see glimpses of what sylvie wants, but the unresolved relationship (whichever way you wish to characterize it- you do you!) between her and loki just hangs in the air like a heavy storm cloud i kept waiting to break but it… didn’t. the closest we got was the pie room scene, but everything between them was stilted and awkward when she was onscreen, which wasn’t that much.

it was almost as if the connection with loki was considered in opposition to her role as a Strong Woman, in a way- she was Strong and Angry. in s1 we see sides of her that defy stereotype- giving that doomed child her candy to ease the pain, her admitting to loki that she numbed herself with flings; there’s a vulnerability there, a complexity. the two of them rehashed their first fight again and again instead of moving onto something new (that being said sophia’s performance in episode 3 added a weight to the story that pleased me greatly) but overall she was regarded as a plot obstacle to be hidden away- at least past episode 3.

anyway i do think it comes down to writers biting off more than they could chew and losing the central concept of the show and focusing on sciencey plot rather than characterization. you can’t make season 1 centered around a love story and then pretend that didn’t happen and expect a cohesive transition between seasons. you can’t bombard us over and over again with the centrality of loki and sylvie’s duality- all of the we’re the sames, all of the i’m not you’s, and then move into s2 deciding it’s time to focus on only one half of that duo you spent the whole series focusing on.

you also can’t give us a “aHH we’re all gonna explode” thing over and over again and expect us to give a damn when you’re not letting the characters have dialogue that makes us say, oh man, i hope this loom thing doesn’t blow up, because i want to see where the connections they have going on end up! you can’t replace emotional weight with a ticking time bomb and expect it to do the work for you.

there are other problems with the series as well, and other people are far more articulate than i am, but the lack of female gaze and only one episode having a female writer this season was glaring, imo.

thank u for coming to my tedtalk and i’d love to hear ur thoughts!

[lucianalight]

One of the perhaps less important things that wasn't done well in Loki series imo was the makeup. Every single actor I see in photos or videos look better and younger as themselves. Although I don't know how much of it was makeup and how much was the effect of color and light of the series.

[bluishorange]

I already know I can’t be objective about Our Flag Means Death. but also every non-fan’s Important Take about how the show is Not Good Actually seems to be about a different show than the one I’m watching. like they’re basing their critique on a really surface read of the characters, or they say that David Jenkins is failing SO HARD at doing something I don’t think he was ever trying to do in the first place.

maybe I’ll watch it again in like ten years or something and be able to understand what they’re talking about. but for now I don’t see it.

[alltrekvarnews]

'The Morning Show' y 'Succession' Lideran las Nominaciones Televisivas a los Critics Choice Awards 2024

[awardswatcherik]

29th Critics Choice Association (CCA) TV Nominees: 'The Morning Show' Leads with Six

[giveamadeuschohisownmovie]

Deadpool and Wolverine might actually be the best love letter to Marvel that I’ve seen.

On a meta level, the movie feels like it was written in response to people dismissing the Marvel properties that aren’t the MCU. The MCU is the “Sacred Timeline” while everyone else gets thrown into the trash aka the Void. Wade even tried to become an Avenger because he feels that his life doesn’t matter. Then, Wade gets a chance to join the MCU. Of course, he’s thrilled, but is then told that the rest of his universe is getting destroyed since they lost its “anchor” (aka it lost its relevance). So, Wade decides to fight for his universe.

On a surface level, you can read this movie as a criticism of the MCU in that it’s treating the only stories worth a damn as the ones coming from that universe. But I don’t think that’s the case. I mean, first off, this was made by Marvel Studios. Feige and Co had to sign off on this and a great deal of the plot stems from the Loki show. Second, the movie felt more like it was trying to say that ALL Marvel stories matter. It’s not really criticizing the MCU, it’s criticizing how audiences view the Marvel movies/shows that aren’t the MCU. The “why should I care about this movie if it doesn’t lead to the next Avengers movie” attitude.

That’s why I say this was the best love letter to Marvel I’ve seen. It’s a celebration of the company’s works, both MCU and non-MCU. You can see that from the Easter eggs, the cameos, the nods to the fandom, and the emphasis on forgotten characters getting a chance at redemption. Even the jabs at the company and fanbase feel like they come from a place of love.

But what really sold me on this movie being a love letter to Marvel was the ending. Instead of a tease to a potential De4dpool movie, it was a montage of the development of the Fox Marvel movies (I can’t say X-Men since clips of the Fantastic Four were there). On one side, it’s a touching send-off to the Fox X-Men franchise. On the other side, it felt like a reminder of why people love Marvel to begin with. It’s these people - actors, writers, directors, producers - coming together to make these entertaining stories for us, to bring the comics to life on the big screen. It’s like Ryan Reynolds was telling us to take a step back from all the conspiracy theorizing, nitpicking, and fanbase drama for a couple of hours, that we should just enjoy this Marvel movie as it is.

And it worked. It was genuinely just a fun, awesome movie to watch. If we’re using the MCU-as-a-TV-show-analogy that people love using, Deadpool and Wolverine is the 100th episode that is made dedicated to the fans and celebrating the show as a whole. It’s a fanservice movie done right, one that goes beyond just references and cameos.