Kazuhiko Tamura & Masakazu Katsura NYCC 2012 Interview
This is transcribed from the video included on the second season 1 Viz blu-ray set.
Tamura: Not many adults watch anime anymore. Those who do watch always will, but I wanted something with wider appeal, like a foreign TV drama. As we moved in that direction, I began thinking about "heroes." When I was little, our first real manga hero was Wingman created by Katsura-sensei. Before that, they were all tokusatsu or live-action. That's what made me think Katsura-sensei was the one fort he job.
Katsura: A friend of mine called. Takayuki Takeya (Note: He created Wingman figurines produced by Bandai), a figurine artist. He asked me if I wanted to design characters for an anime series. At the time, I was working on Zetman, a dark manga series about heroes. If it was going to be similar, I wasn't too interested. But he said it was a comedy, with a middle-aged man as the lead. That sounded interesting, so I accepted the offer.
Tamura: We wanted to create characters that people could relate to. Main characters in anime are usually young boys and girls. There aren't many successful anime with a middle-aged character as the lead. Since Tiger & Bunny features two main characters, we thought it'd be interesting if we make one of them a bit older and make it more relatable to adults. Like, "Daddy's really working hard!" That's what we were aiming for. During the planning stages, we just had very rough, one or two-line descriptions for each character. We gave Katsura-sensei total freedom to come up with his own ideas.
Katsura: "Freedom" is a nice way to put it - they just dumped it all on me. It was so random. It was like, "This character uses ice, uses fire, or the wind." Or like, "Kotetsu has strong punches." That's all that written down. What am I supposed to do, right? So it was very difficult.
Tamura: Couldn't have done it without you.
Katsura: Bandai wanted to come out with a toy line. They wanted to come out with eight figures together with the show, right? So they wanted me to design the heroes really quickly.
Tamura: Maybe it seemed like this was a project about toys to you.
Katsura: It really did seem that way. No details at all were set at that time. The concept was for them to advertise companies...
Tamura: Like walking ads.
Katsura: Yeah, like walking ads. The more they stand out, the better. They get more points. When we were kids, we thought it was so cool how Ultraman's and Masked Rider's eyes glowed at night. That's why I wanted to make them glow. I thought it'd be great if their entire bodies glowed like neon lights. Also, I gave them colors so they wouldn't be lost against the scenery. That's why the heroes in the series are so showy. Take Sky High, for example, I designed him in an art deco style. I tried to create the coolest possible design within that style. Even the angle of the fins...
Tamura: The angle of the fins? I think you revised them seven times.
Katsura: These? After looking at the CG?
Tamura: No, no. Your revisions to the lines of the fine on his legs. The length...
Katsura: I did that?
Tamura: Yes, you did. That's how particular you were.
Katsura: I was very particular. On everything.
Tamura: And the colors...silver and champagne gold...
Katsura: The patterns on Fire Emblem's chest, too...
Tamura: You changed that design a lot. Because his first submissions are so great, we tell him, "Let's go with this!" But then he'll say, "Actually, I want to fix it a little." He didn't like a certain angle, and things like that.
Katsura: Or I'd email him out of the blue and say, "Please change it to this."
Tamura: Yeah...
Katsura: I submitted the design for Tiger, but decided I wanted to change it, so I asked them to redo it.
Tamura: Yes, we had to redo the CG.
Katsura: Yeah...
Tamura: That's why Tiger in the promo looks different from the show when you look closely.
Katsura: I gave them a lot of headaches.
Tamura: But Tiger's overall design didn't change.
Katsura: No, just the details. I do that a lot in my other works, as well. If I don't like something I've drawn, I'd redo it.
Tamura: That's how particular you are.
Katsura: Well, I am very nitpicky...
Tamura: But, I think that was a good thing, though.
Katsura: Really?
Tamura: Yes. It was rough, but yes.
Katsura: I was asked to create heroes with a very distinct designs, so that was a challenge I was looking forward to. It was more fun than creating similar heroes with slight variations. So I first created categories and equally gave each one distinct design features. So I like all of then. But if I had to choose Tiger took the longest time. Until Tiger was set, I couldn't start deciding on the others. I guess my favorites are Lunatic and Tiger.
Tamura: Your use of colors was very original: white and lime-green.
Katsura: That's just because I like lime-green.
Tamura: But green has the image of a supporting character.
Katsura: True, but I never really felt that way.
Tamura: My favorites are Blue Rose and Origami Cyclone. I think they're very original.
Katsura: Really? From my perspective, I think Origami is a little cliche.
Tamura: But you know, ninja characters usually dress like ninja. But the classical Kabuki red eye makeup made him look really cool.
Katsura: In the original proposal, it said "Japan-otaku Russian." I thought i'd be humorous if he saw Japan totally in the wrong way, so I added Kabuki elements to his ninja style. Real ninja are supposed to be inconspicuous and stay hidden in the shadows, but he's showy to the hilt. And totally wrong. That's what I was aiming for. It was fun. Initially, I thought of Blue Rose as the female version of Tiger. So in the initial design, she was wearing a mask. Then I was told to make her cuter, like a pop idol, with her face showing. So I completely changed everything.
Tamura: To me, when I first saw her design...I hope Sensei won't' be offended if I say this, but she looked like a villain. But we wanted her to become popular, someone people can have fun cosplaying. And showed more skin.
Katsura: They were adamant about wanting to see her cleavage. They were very clear about that.
Tamura: Yes, we were.
Katsura: I didn't want to design someone so stereotypical, so I made her breasts actually small.
Tamura: Her gun, too.
Katsura: Like, her headpiece is the hat that nurses used to wear in old days. And her gun is in the shape of a hypodermic needle. After I created eight design categories, I couldn't decide which heroes will get assigned with design elements. I drew various possibilities, like a Sky High-type Fire Emblem and so forth. And that's how I narrowed it down. I had decided that Fire Emblem would wear a cape like American comic heroes do. I gave him a macho body with big shoulders. Along the way, I was told he's gay. So I made him wear high heels. Confident, I submitted my design. "He's supposed to be skinny," they said. Nobody told me! So I went back, made him skinnier, and that's the Fire Emblem as you know today. I was told that heroes would be drawn using CG, I thought it'd be naet if there was a moving fire pattern on his cape. So I made the suggestion casually. Later, I was told the CG artists had a hard time with it.
Tamura: Oh, they sure did. They had to redo the fire pattern so many times.
Katsura: It must've been rough.
Tamura: Yes, but I'm glad we did it.
Katsura: Yeah.
Tamura: We wanted to be true to Sensei's vision, so even if we couldn't make it perfect, we wanted to get as close to it as possible and tried repeatedly. The CG staff worked very hard.
Katsura: They sure did. I think we were all happy with the outcome. I was told Lunatic was a detective, who was partnered with Kotetsu. And that he stepped over to the dark side. The plot I got at the time was that Kotetsu could manipulate memories. The mark on his face is the scar placed by Kotetsu when he tried to wipe Lunatic's memories of doing evil. That's what I based my design on. I don't think Lunatic works for justice at all. I don't consider him a hero. He's crazy. He can say whatever he wants, but he's not a hero of justice.
Tamura: We were striving to create an anime for adults, and this was my first time as an animation producer. We wanted to do something different than the ordinary anime. So we asked Mr. Nishida, the screenplay writer, and Mr. Katsura to join us. And Mr. Ike for music, all of whom worked on live-action shows. I was so excited to have this opportunity and to have such a wonderful staff. I felt there was absolutely no room to screw up. I put a lot of pressure on myself. Many staff working on the show believed in the show, as well. Each of us has our own special feelings about the show. Animation is the accumulation of everyone's efforts allt he way to the end. We did have arguments and differences of opinion, but I owe it all to my staff to have been able to create this final product.
Katsura: I worked really hard designing these eight kids to the smallest detail. It would make me very happy if you would love each one of them.
Tamura: From the very beginning of the production, we wanted to show this to the world. We wanted to bring the viewers something interesting, not just in Japan, but beyond. At various events I was able to attend, including one here in New York, I learned that the show is very popular. Personally, it makes me extremely happy. And as the representative of the production staff, I am very grateful. I want the show to spread even further. Please continue to support the show. Thank you.
Katsura: I kept on working without giving a thought to the people in the studio. I felt I couldn't do my work if I thought about it.
Tamura: You're a heartless man, Sensei.
Katsura: Yes, I am.
Tamura: Were you always like that?
Katsura: Yeah, pretty much.
Tamura: So, you're petty?
Katsura: I'm gonna kill you later, okay?
Interviewer: Thank you very much!
Katsura: You say "uhh" and "umm" too much.
Interviewer: I knew you were gonna say that, Sensei!
Tamura: Can you cut those out?
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what would you say are the biggest inspirations for your art these days? how does that compare to earlier points in your journey as an artist? do your style inspirations differ from your general/content inspirations?
I have so many... Lately I've been heavily inspired by 80's advertisment art, tattoo art, metal album lettering, 90's skater art, medical illustration, Phil Hale's oil paintings, Gigi Cavenago's line work, Bob Peak's compositions, Wilhelm M Busch's line work, Serif Karasu's portraits, Aseiremaktas's forms, manga like Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo, Trigun Maximum by Yasuhiro Nightow, Chainsaw Man by Tatsuki Fujimoto, and Takayuki Takeya's sculpture works. I listen to a lot of grunge, metal, video game soundtracks. I think a lot of what I consume goes directly into what I like to make
I used to draw a lot of pokemon, ghibli movies, dragons, fantasy. I used to like more soft art, clean art, a focus on cartoons. Now I lean more towards harsher, messier art in a more sci-fi direction. I do think a huge constant is a love for advertisement illustration. I don't mind tastes changing over time; it's natural, and in ten years time I'm sure I will like different things and that's just fine with me
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