#Yes the fandom has a big problem with misogyny and racism

[mademoiselle-cookie]

On BBH calling people « uncultured »

(Here the link to the clip, it's the only one I found)

In summary, during a friendly gathering, BBH called other streamers, including 2 non-Americans whose native language is not English, "uncultured" for not knowing an American expression. And the last person he spoke to before saying that, is someone who rightfully said he didn't know bc it's not his culture.

I saw a lot of people getting angry about it on Twitter X while I usually miraculously escape this kind of drama, and I'm still lucky to have only seen people talking in their corner without (really) directly attacking BBH or worse, harassing him. So obviously, it's Twitter X so it blown out of proportion, but I still wanted to come back to it.

It is important to specify

IT’S A JOKE.

BBH didn't intend to hurt anyone and it's apparently a common joke in the US. Insulting and teasing each other is very common among friends, which is what QSMP streamers are. They were all roasting BBH just before that. The people targeted didn't seem upset (Étoiles loves to be dramatic) and they're adults wjho talk to each other outside of QSMP. If they have a problem with a joke, they discuss it.

And after that BBH tried to find the equivalent in different of the expression. I don't know about Portuguese, but it didn't really work in French. There is no equivalent to "jumping the shark", since it's a reference to a old american serie which then became a (apparently niche) expression. The frence equivalent BBH found was "passer du coq à l'âne" which means abruptly changing the subject, while "jumping the shark" refers to when a series becomes bad/absurd.

The intention is still cool tho.

All this to say that this is not an attack on non-Americans, BBH also "insulted" Tina and Foolish, not just Bagi and Etoiles.

BUT

I understand why people get worked up about it (doesn't mean I tolerate harrassment. BBH doesn't deserve any of that).

First, the lack of reaction from streamers is not necessarily indicative of what they think. When Cellbit joked that Etoiles' team didn't listen to him (suggesting he was a bad leader) in Purgatory, Etoiles just laughed the first time and didn't say anything when Cellbit doubled down. Except that the fact that no one listens to it on day 1 is one of the reasons why the stream was an absolute nightmare to watch, so I don't imagine for Étoiles himself. Even Fit seemed to be dying of frustration even though he wasn't the target of this disrespect. And that’s not to mention that Étoiles was being harassed on social media at the time, and one of those accusations was that he was a bad leader. The joke really made me so uncomfortable.

It's very likely that it was discussed with Cellbit later since no one ever brought it up afterward, but no one said anything about the joke itself on stream.

Also, one thing I thought was stupid about people being personally hurt by Aypierre and Antoine's joke about Mike looking like Hitler was that they were joking about Mike's Minecraft skin. The target was very specific and Antoine had already called Mike a dictator in his face earlier, and Mike didn't have any problem with that (he literally had the political program of a dictator).

Whereas here, BBH calls a group of people "uneducated" because they don't know an expression. Which concerns a lot of people in the chats. Personnally, I've already heard about it but bc my passions gave me the opportunity to know it. And even like that I only see it TWICE in my life, and only one of them explained what it meant.

Unlike Aypierre and Antoine, who spoke in French – which means that only people who know the kind of dark humor that we are so fond of should have understood – BBH said it in a language that everyone understood, since it wasn't an aside but something everyone needed to hear.

These people in the chat are not friends with BBH so being insulted by him is significantly less likely to be taken as a joke. They don't necessarily know that it's a type of American humor and that there is no attack in his words. Being insulted by a friend and a stranger is a completely different experience, especially if you don't know the context behind it.

Because it's also another problem

The context

We have an american telling 2 people who are not american and which native's language is not English that they're uncultured for not knowing an american expression. The US has a bit of history being condescent with other culture for not being the same as them. The cliché that Americans are arrogant, nationalistic and insensitive to other cultures is still present and persistent. And we can't say it's not true, we just have to see the QSMP fandom.

(I know it's not only americans but Baghera's harrassment because she dared to use the word "retard" once, which means late in french, is a good example of people who refuse to aknowledge that non English speakers have a life and culture outside of the English language)

It is therefore not really surprising that the viewers didn't take well the remark.

Especially since this isn't the first time BBH has pissed off someone over something like this. The time he was debating with Forever and he got fed up because he couldn't defend himself properly since it wasn't his language - which let BBH have the upper hand and let him wrongly think he was totally in the right – and decided to speak in Portuguese and let BBH deal with the translator. I remember seeing comments under the clip on Youtube expressing how happy they were that Forever was putting down BBH's cackle by fighting on his turf.

Even if he is very nice, BBH is a very stubborn person who does not give up and with whom arguing is quite difficult. Whether he likes it or not, want it or not, he takes advantage of the lack of vocabulary and fluency that non-English speakers have when they speak English.

This isn't helped by the fact that BBH seems to be one of the few on the server to put very little effort into learning/speaking other languages. Foolish practices Spanish with Leo, Philza asked Tallulah to speak to him in Spanish (I don't know if he continues), Tina learns French with Etoiles, etc... (ofc I'm not listing the Non English speakers, it's obvious)

BBH has a French child and was adopted by the French as a whole, but I don't remember seeing anything remotely close to him learning/speaking French (apart from the "t'as les cramptés?" but it's on the same level as Aypierre and his "caralho mano") I don't watch Foolish but I know he's progressed enough to be able to translate into Spanish for Leo something BBH said they didn't understand. And I don't forget the gathering of 3 french (Baghera, Aypierre, Étoiles) with Ironmouse and they decided to speak spanish for her.

Apparently, BBH is learning spanish but is too shy/insecure to speak it on stream

And honestly, I have no problem to believe that. But that's also mean that the vast majority of people didn't know that. We're not likely to guess it on our own, and we French know a streamer who had major insecurity problems in the past, and yet who is now trying to speak in public what is probably his fourth language* (meaning that he has not mastered it at all and is currently busy improving himself in another language). So there is very little chance that we will make the connection alone. QSMP is the perfect place to improve and learn another language, if someone want to lean, we'll assume they will do that here.

(*I have no confirmation that Étoiles speaks Arabic but it is extremely likely, hence the "probably")

Like, yes, Etoiles speaks several languages so it's easier to be confident and daring. But that's the thing, isn't it ?

We have a someone who knows one (1) language telling someone who speaks rather fluently at least 2, who has a daily general knowledge show, who often plays general knowledge games, who organizes visits to museums/castles/operas for his streams, that he's "uncultured".

The irony

[ca-suffit]

I was new to the fandom and the first time I saw all the drama with your account and some others here I thought you were the problem but after these last weeks on iwtv twt oh boy I was wrong, we owe you big apologies!

Also yes this fandom has a big problem with racism, misogyny and abusers apologists.

I don't think I've ever gotten an ask like this before. it means a lot tho, thank u!

[people-wxtching]

let's settle this today.

"the book emphasized annabeth being blonde and white and blah blah blah"

the books were written like a decade ago with no specific race allotted to the main trio. annabeth's descriptions about being blonde, percy having black hair and sea green eyes etc. were merely to make the characters feel like characters rather than a black floating blob wrapped around a big question mark in the reader's imagination.

the official arts and fanarts are what led most of the fandom to envision the main trio as white.

however, annabeth not being blonde or percy not having black hair does not take away any of the main plot of the books. yes maybe those curly black hair is what made you fall in love with percy's character but you need to realise that it has absolutely nothing to do with the plot.

don't try to argue with the gods as a reason because gods clearly don't have DNA which means their children can look like whatever but uh rick himself seemed to have forgotten that many times in the books (but that's not relevant at the moment).

"nOt tO bE rAcIsT-"

stop. you know you're gonna spout some racist bs anyway.

"-but rick said he'd be sticking to the books! he's NOT sticking to the books :((("

sticking to the books generally consists of the adaption being faithful to the plot. the bonds between the characters, the grief, the trauma, the kids being at such a tender age having to go through such harrowing experiences are what the books were about. capturing these major themes as well as the snark, smarts, attitude and so on is what is the main thing one should be focusing on in the show. THAT is what makes a good and faithful adaptation that is true to the books. having a darker skin tone affects nothing.

"but the dumb blonde stereotype-"

i'm aware that a lot of you wanted to see annabeth blonde and prove that blondes can be smart too or whatever it is you guys wanted. however, having annabeth as black fleshes out her character even more, and there could be even deeper characterization than in the books.

plus, if you really wanna see them defeat a dumb blonde stereotype, walker is literally right there??? percy's character is literally about his struggles as a neurodivergent teenager and he's been called stupid and good for nothing his whole life. isn't that exactly what you guys wanted annabeth to do and your main reason to be racist?

to this some might argue that the dumb blonde stereotype is more prevalent in female characters. and EXACTLY. it is. you wanna know why? MISOGYNY. that is essentially where this stems from. and you know who else goes through the same thing every single day with an addition of racism? black women and girls. do you see how that same problem could be discussed in another way? when the root of the problem IS misogyny, is Annabeth being black really changing the actual frustration over the problem at all??? no! it's giving it an even deeper and more prevalent look. what do you not understand here.

if the book annabeth defeating the dumb blonde stereotype has helped you with what you went through, that's great but there are SO many other shows, and also the books themselves (the tv show does not change the books. rick is not jkr. he never said that this is what he meant in the books too. he said they can both coexist because it literally does not matter given how inconsistent he is about descriptions in his own material) that defeat this stereotype. however it is very hard to find media where black women (and also desi characters) are depicted in a positive light as a main character with their own personality and character arcs, without any stereotypes. modernization of series has been going on for ages, I dont know why you guys are crying over the dumb blonde stereotype and thinking it is much more prevalent and a major issue than women of color who have to go through misogyny AND racism at all times throughout their entire life.

it's okay if you always envisioned annabeth as white with blonde hair or percy with black hair and sea green eyes and still want to continue doing the same. no one's stopping you. however, it is important to differentiate between the book percy and annabeth and the show percy and annabeth. the original white cast from the books, the various headcanons about the trio's ethnicities as well as the casting for the show CAN and SHOULD co-exist. the fact that this little detail bothers you as a teen/adult and not my 10 year old brother and other kids I interacted with says a lot.

the pjo book series was mostly white with like two memorable canon characters of colour, both of whom died before the series could end. therefore this casting is very important for the black as well as desi community so kindly, shut your racist ass up and sit down.

and don't you dare hate on these kids.

[sundayschurchbench]

This is why I said it.

Don't defend Blizzard's writing just because your favorite isn't getting fucked at the moment.

They have bad writers who ruin big portions of the story, period. It is a fact. Some good characters, a few memorable quests—none of this changes the shitty writing of the rest. Their dev team is in shambles. Making a few good changes doesn't mean you can't be critical of the things that are still bad. Let me say it again, you can say: "I love this new feature you're adding" while also saying the story is fucking bad.

This was always the problem with the fandom. When one side of it rose up to speak up against whatever—in game misogyny, racism, grinding, nerfs (literally whatever it could have been)—there were always those "Blizzard apologists" running to their defense as if the dev team had to be shielded from all critical feedback. Stop.

They need feedback to make the game better. Yes, go shield them from the toxic posts like "you guys need to die" if you want, but you don't need to fucking baby them about the rest.

It's part of their job to listen to the player base, understand what's a problem, and try to find solutions that are feasible within their means. Doing some good things doesn't mean people have to shut up about the things that are still awful—the things they're still ignoring. People like you are the reason they double down because they know there will always be those defending their awful bullshit. Just stop.

Everyone who loves Tyrande is (and has been) experiencing the grief of having this character they loved absolutely massacred by the plot. This is what they do to everyone—at one point or another.

And it's the fucking Pain Olympics with the fandom every time this happens—which victim or character is more worthy of sympathy or a better story or a happy ending. Every. Single. Time.

Also, can we please stop fucking being mad at the characters for the actions they take (or don't)? Like, do people not understand? Who the fuck do you think makes the characters do what they do and endure what they do? The damned writers. The devs. The people in charge.

I see these posts screaming about characters (as if they were real people making sentient choices) when the characters are the way they are and enduring what they do because of the fucking writers.

[And it's more complicated than that—it's not just “the writers." There are plenty of others responsible for the direction of a narrative in a game.]

It's dumbest shit I've seen in the fandom.

Stop blaming fictional characters for shit they're written to do by people with the awareness of a fucking corpse.

[autisticcassandracain]

I have many thoughts on the weird phenomena in the DC fandom and the Batfam fandom specifically where probably the majority of people just straight up. haven’t interacted with the source material. and almost all of those thoughts can be summarized as ‘lmao that’s weird and mildly concerning’.

and because I’m annoying I will list them all here right now <3

1. To preface this post, I mean, obviously, comics are inaccessible as all hell, both in the disability kind of way and the ‘you need to understand the concept of hypertime to fully comprehend the DC timeline’ kind of way. Because of this, even if you don’t have a disability that prevents you from reading comics, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at the amount of comics you need to read to have even a base understanding of a character and go ‘no thanks <3′ and just enjoy fanart and fanfic in a vacuum. Ultimately, this is fandom, this is supposed to be fun, it doesn’t really matter.

2. That said, it’s VERY weird to me that the majority of this fandom just straight up hasn’t interacted with the source material, and moreover, that it’s considered rude to tell people that they should do so. It’s especially weird considering the amount of fanon-only fans I’ve seen who straight up have a superiority complex over canon. The idea that it’s gatekeeping to tell fans of something to actually interact with canon is just. so weird, and a fundamental misunderstanding of what ‘gatekeeping’ actually entails. 

3. But honestly I’m less interested in discussing the ways in which canon and fanon fans should interact with each other (personally, I think it would be helpful to create separate tags of some kind, but that’d require quite a big overhaul of the current fandom state) than in figuring out how this actually happened in the first place. On the one hand, it’s obvious; long-running superhero comics the way DC writes them have made themselves so thoroughly inaccessible that most people are simply too daunted to even try. Most media has a cohesive beginning and end (or at least, a planned end somewhere). Comics just... don’t.

But I do think it says something that, even among people who are clearly interested in the characters (since they have, you know, entire blogs about them), the effort to get into comics just seems to be too much to even bother. This really doesn’t bode well for the future of DC Comics. Obviously, I am no expert on anything at all ever, but I’d personally be surprised if DC survives beyond the few decades, at least in its current form/without a big overhaul.

4. But on the other hand, I don’t think the confusing state of DC Comics is the only thing to blame here. Fandom has a well-known problem with reducing any character down to archetypes to more easily ship and write fic/make content with. This problem is particularly prominent in fanfic, which, if you read enough of it, you’ll eventually start seeing not just the same tropes and trends, but essentially the same fics over and over again. And not just within the same fandom; everywhere, or every large fandom, at least. 

Fanon Batfam is entirely built on a bunch of those tropes; insecure/depressed sadboy Tim, team mom with optional hidden trauma/emotional problems Dick, bad boy with a heart of gold + sadboy combo Jason, abused sadboy Damian/angry easily-villified-for-fic-reasons monster Damian, good dad Bruce for found family fic and bad dad Bruce for angst fic, etc. This all culminates in a found family dynamic that’s generic and malleable to whatever fic the writer wants to write.

(This isn’t getting into the ship fic, which I avoid like the plague because the vast majority of it is incest, but I’d bet real actual money that the tropes in those fics fall under what is often preferred by the Migratory Slash Fandom.)

By having a decent excuse not to get into canon (the inaccessibility of comics) and a, by now, well-established fanon fandom, many fans feel free to use the batfam fandom as essentially an excuse to write whatever fic with reduced archetypes and tropes they personally feel the itch to write, without having to bother with even consuming a canon. This is compounded by the fact that canon itself is often contradictory and frankly bad, meaning that whatever interpretation of a character you want/need to go for your fic is at least theoretically backed up by canon (for example, you can just as easily cast Bruce as an abusive shithole dad who his kids need to get away from as a loving father figure who cares deeply for his children), which you can always use as a defense if people question your characterization.

5. This focus on fandom trends and tropes over actual creativity or care for the characters is also visible in the way bigotry manifests in this fandom; namely, in literally the exact way you’d expect. The female characters and characters of colour are shuffled to the side, non-existent, vilified, and/or reduced to harmful stereotypes. 

Barbara is probably the one I saw the most often in fanfic, but usually just as ‘Dick’s girlfriend’, and even then, she was often vilified for Dick angst (especially in fics about examining Dick’s trauma from his canon sexual assault; Kori also often gets the short end of the stick in those). After that, probably Stephanie, who fanon fans don’t really seem to know what to do with, so she’s basically just there as comic relief waffle girl, most of the time, though sometimes she can be used to either further Tim angst or further vilify Tim, whatever the fic calls for. Cass has gotten included more in batfam fics as of late, likely in response to critiques of fandom racism for leaving her out, but again, it’s clear people don’t actually know what to do with her. She’s often reduced to a racist stereotype of a quite, stoic therapist for whatever guy du jour needs it. That, or she’s in Hong Kong and just not there. Duke especially gets left in the dust in fandom, usually just being non-existent, but when he’s there, he’s almost always nothing more than the straight man for the actual fun characters to play off of. Talia probably has it the worst, though, and almost universally gets vilified by fanon stans in order to write sadboy Damian.

All of this is extremely predictable behaviour and falls entirely in line with general fandom misogyny and racism; ignoring or vilifying women and characters of colour, or using them as very minor characters at best. The only two characters of colour who aren’t regularly left out of fic are Dick and Damian, who are both also conveniently the two characters most often drawn and written in a whitewashed manner. In addition, there’s a real trend of demonizing Damian in fanon fics where he isn’t written as an abused sadboy, which I’d argue is in no small part due to fandom racism, considering Damian’s behaviour is in no way as bad as Jason’s, who doesn’t get anywhere close to the same demonization and gets woobiefied instead. I also find it convenient that Damian is probably the batboy who receives the most vilification in fic, when he’s the most obviously non-white of the batboys they’re willing to acknowledge.

Fandom often cries for more diversity in canon, only to ignore the diversity already there and focus on the same generic white guys. The batfam fandom is a brilliant example of this.

Which is not to say that fandom racism and misogyny isn’t present in the canon parts of the fandom (and canon itself); it absolutely 100% is. But I’ve found that canon fans are also more likely to like and care about at least one of the characters I’ve listed as ignored/vilified, and are willing to create and consume content for them, whereas fanon fans... aren’t, really. I’ve never seen a fan of fanon Cass the way I’ve seen fans of fanon Dick, for example. Obviously, this could just be by coincidence, or I’ve just surrounded myself with people like that, but it’s been a trend I noticed. Racism and misogyny is present in every part of this fandom and should be addressed as such, but I feel like it manifests the most blatantly in the fanon parts of this fandom. 

(I’d also recommend the articles Migratory Slash Fandom’s Focus and Beige Blank Slates, which expand more on the type of fandom racism I think is especially prominent in the batfam fandom, as well as literally every article in the What Fandom Racism Looks Like series.)

6. All this leads me to conclude that the majority of fanon fans don’t actually like the characters all that much; they’re convenient excuses for them to participate in fandom. Which I also think is, in no small part, a reason why so many of them react so negatively to being told to pick up a comic; they came to this fandom specifically to consume it as a fandom, because they wanted the fandom experience without having to consume a canon. 

This is not a phenomena unique to the batfam fandom (again, see the Migratory Slash Fandom), but it does fascinate me. While fandom is often said to be an experience focusing on transformative art, I think it’s also safe to say that, especially as fandom has become more mainstream, an increasing amount of people are looking to it less as a way to engage with their favourite pieces of media, and more as a type of media in and of itself. I think the reasons for this are similar to the reasons mass media entertainment like the MCU are so popular; you gain a lot of enjoyment out of it with very little risk involved. 

By consuming the same fics of the same characters (or the same archetypes) over and over again, you are rarely at risk of being challenged or even disappointed. It’s often very clear right from the start whether or not a fic will appeal to you, and if it isn’t, it’s easy to just look for another one. It requires less emotional investment than most other types of media, even ‘popcorn media’ like the MCU - or, yes, DC Comics. It’s safe, it’s enjoyable, it’s comforting, like McDonalds, but just like McDonalds, it’s ultimately bland and unsubstantial. 

7, TL;DR. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s like, wrong to enjoy the fanon version of the batfam without wanting to engage with canon, and I certainly don’t think it’s okay to harrass people over it. But I do think it’s in large part based on a desire to interact with fandom rather than other pieces of media because people are scared of being let down by those pieces of media (or worse, just uninterested in actually thinking), which is mildly concerning. 

[mymelancholiesblues]

No, Mia isn’t  "low-tier" compared to Ada (morally speaking, or w/e) – a measured answer?/essay

So, a couple of Ada haters tried to put up a false symmetry between both of these characters there on twitter, and it inspired me to put my own thoughts down in a more articulate essay as to why that's (Ada's somehow being morally worse than Mia) not sustained by canon in Resident Evil.

standing there, killing time

can't commit to anything but a crime

all the good girls go to hell

'cause even God herself has enemies

and once the water starts to rise

and heaven's out of sight

she'll want the Devil on her team. ⁕

First things first: let us debunk the false symmetry that they tried to establish between these two characters with extremely distinct archetypes – and worse, the following replies to this false symmetry and its poor arguments trying to validate it, pointing out that, in fact, no, character B (that would be Ada, btw) – which is so evidently and ridiculously different from character A (and that would be Mia) – is, in fact, WAY WORSE than character A, and then proceeding to assert some unsupported propositions about misogyny in Resident Evil (which, tbh, definitely IS a recurring problem in the franchise, but that in this case particularly, little or does not apply AT ALL) and how Ada contributes to "the perpetration of a biological cold war".

Starting with what differentiates Mia from Ada grotesquely: we know NOTHING of Ada's true alliances in RE's world. Mia, however, canonically worked for a group that participated in the importation and exportation as well as the manufacturing, testing and marketing of biological weapons: "The Connections", a CRIMINAL SYNDICATE which, amongst other things, was also involved in money laundering, assassinations as well as weapons and drug trafficking. I don't care at all about Mia, so I don't intend to waste much of my time going on about her role in the plot, but people should've already realized by just that much how infinitely dishonest is to try to put these two characters as "similar" ones, or argue that Ada is somehow worse.

Another detail that shouldn't escape anyone's attention too, are the origins and nationalities of both – and yes, I intend to briefly bring up racism against eastern-Asian looking characters (a silent plague that takes form by each passing day in all fiction fandoms) and anti-China xenophobia, but for now, hold this tea there just before I drop it: Mia is canonically American, and previously a Texas-state resident; meanwhile, we have no confirmation of Ada's nationality except for her pretty evident Chinese ancestry. But, as I said, hold it there for a while.

i) espionage — the job

red so silent

wait a minute

or just a little while.

what are you looking for? ⁕

At all times that Ada's "job" was brought up in this franchise, in ALL of her cameos, she has NEVER been called a mercenary in the original Japanese. She's always referred to as a SPY. Even in RE2R, the most recent title in which she's featured in, the original text of the game makes a point of labelling her as a SPY (and not a mercenary) in the dialogue that transpires between Annette and Leon.

It's the North-American translation and correspondent localization that now and then falls for the equivocal use of this other term. This distinction is important since espionage NECESSARILY implies operating in an organized service for, perhaps a country, or a political cause, or a class/group, or a corporation, or whatever. While a mercenary is someone who's acting per their self financial interests, indiscriminately selling their specialized "labour" and skills to anyone who'll offer more.

Ada's not a mercenary, she's a spy. But Mia, in addition to being hired to a canonically criminal company, was also the handler personally assigned to Eveline. I don't care how exactly Mia got in that predicament but the fact is: Mia was canonically employed by a company that profited over illicit activities and directly watched as a family was destroyed and toyed with by this new killing machine (Eve). Yet, we can't state for sure that we know to whom or to what Ada is truly affiliated with.

ii) sources — check them

who's a heretic now?

am I making sense?

how can you make it stick?

and I'm on a trial

waiting 'til the beat comes out. ⁕

This fandom should put a little more thought into which translation and localization of the game texts, dialogues and files they are using to support their arguments. I know that in some cases the United States people have a bit of an inclination to think of themselves as the owners of the planet and deem English as the only language that matters in this world, but let's not forget that RE is a Japanese franchise (wow, insane, right?!). Therefore, the most valid script, with the greatest amount of details, and highest credibility, is the Japanese original. Throughout these years, there have been several errors in translation and localization of the Japanese original to North-American English. And, believe me, curiously enough, plenty of those concern Ada, since she's often mentioned or referred to in a very vague way – without the use of pronouns or adjectives or adverbs that could help in indicating gender. This ended up causing those details and mentions to her to get overlooked, even though in the Japanese text it was a clear reference to her character (per observation of context).

iii) the good guys — one of

head in the dust

feet in the fire

labour on that midnight wire

listening for that angel choir

you got nowhere to run

careful son, you got dreamers plans

but it gets hard to stand. ⁕

Yes, as much as haters try to minimize it, it is SIGNIFICANT that Ada saved so many important characters and stood for unquestionably heroic actions in so many moments - like stopping everything she was doing so she could help completely random Chinese civilians with the helicopter she managed to pilot in that chaos in China (yeah, I know you haters love to forget about this, but it happened, it's there in canon, and no, it wasn't her direct OR indirect responsibility what was going on in China: REPLAY RE6 and for the love of GOD, never again argue that what she did was somehow "the equivalent of evacuating a city after selling a WMD to destroy that same city". It's a case of pure intellectual dishonesty to say such a thing. It's canon that Carla was the one who caused what happens in China, PLEASE, PLAY RE6).

Furthermore, Ada shows compassion on some occasions even for characters who are directly putting her in harms ways, like Annette (in RE2 OG, right after - in order to defend herself - she slaps Annette leading her to lose balance and collapse over the sewers fences, Ada makes an effort in trying to pull Annette back and prevent her from falling) and Carla.

Replay RE4 and pay attention to it, pay attention to her solo campaign: getting involved with Leon's journey in Spain hasn't brought any real benefit to her mission or herself: Ada deviates from her main path several times due to worrying about him and trying to help him and almost ends up dead in several of these occasions over her insistence in doing so: by saving him from Bitores Mendez, by helping him and Ashley against Sadler, by confronting Krauser and stopping him.

It's so lazy to only read/listen to a file in which she says in English that "Leon might be useful to her plans" (this is way more nuanced in the Japanese original of Ada's Report), and ignore everything that was SHOWN in the game: every effort she made to ensure that Leon could rescue Ashley, remove the parasite from his and her bodies, and escape from that hell-island.

The jet-ski she left for their escape was ALREADY there before she was captured by Sadler (or you think she arranged it while she was caught?). Leon having to intervene and save her from Sadler WASN'T her plan. It WASN'T her plan to take the sample from Leon's hands. She wanted to help him get out of there with Ashley and she guaranteed he could do so, she wanted to get the sample by herself and escape too while sending that hell to kingdom's come. But, because she chose to help Leon rescue Ashley right in front of Sadler, she ends up captured.

On her end, Mia never did anything minimally compared to that, and all of her "selflessness" or self-sacrificing actions involved a much, MUCH smaller scope than Ada's: wanting to help her husband and HERSELF is not at all comparable to saving a few dozens of unknown Chinese civilians. So no, they aren't "cut from the same cloth". They don't come from the same place, nor do they share the same intentions or goals, and their contributions to the RE storyline are quite different.

iv) unknown true purpose (shades of grey)

lining up in the background

waiting for the crowd shot to be seen

in the shadow of the big screen

everybody begs to be redeemed. ⁕

In databooks, Ada is recurrently described as "a Chinese spy with extraordinary physical abilities, vigorous health and composed mind and spirit, capable of coping with grim situations and handling even the most difficult requests without losing composure". If we are paying attention to the storytelling ingame, however, we know that this isn't always the case: Ada did let her mask of unswerving emotional and physical strength fall and showed a very fragile side under strenuous circumstances a couple of times already.

Also, in these databooks, they often point out that "she has her own 'true purpose' and has FREQUENTLY betrayed organizations and clients to achieve it". Huh, we can AGAIN, by this only, see how completely different she's from Mia, who personally watched an entire family being driven to insanity by Eveline's hand.

Furthermore, in these databooks, it's often said that "this true purpose is still obscure and whether she truly cared for anyone or simply used her charms to manipulate people that crossed paths with her isn't ever clear". If people are willing to be open-minded and exercise their text comprehension skills, though, they'll see that in multiple occasions of emotional confrontation it has been established time and time again that yes, Ada DOES care. She wasn't capable of shooting Leon and there has been a couple of other times that failing to choose a cool, sociopathic calculation and pragmatical demeanour over empathy and humanity towards others has put her in harms ways: nonetheless she still chose it.

v) positive impact

I'm gonna break the cycle

I'm gonna shake up the system

I'm gonna destroy my ego. ⁕

To this point, RE's plot systematically leads us to believe that Ada has been covertly acting behind the scenes of multiple biological incidents COLLECTING INFORMATION (the job of a spy, who would've thought! lmao), that is valuable to numerous organizations, companies, groups and different contexts, but at the same time of allegedly offering to handle this knowledge for the right price to the big players involved with bioterrorism and clandestine trading of bioweapons, she's also working to sabotage said players.

This is evident throughout the franchise: she intended to hurt Umbrella's business. She outwitted and deceived Wesker multiple times. She even undermined Simmons, someone who was in a position of power in the US government and actively using that position to lead bioterrorist ventures on the parallel side.

There's no concrete evidence or hint as to what she does with the information she collects, and for all purposes and effects, I can presume that she's gathering this knowledge to assist in the discovery of countermeasures and vaccination studies. I might as well argue that she is a Chinese spy who is working against European and North-American capitalism and the imperialism that creates such monsters like the biochemical and bioweapons industry and that her real objective is to dismantle the market for bioweapons and bioterror supported mainly by the USA (see: Simmons and The Family).

That is, as long as it is unclear what her true purpose is, I have the freedom to surmise whatever the heck I want and that all of what she's been doing was for the sake of the greater "good" - and I'll even have canon moments to support this reasoning as it's clear that she regularly sabotages her customers (customers that are unquestionably established as playing for the "evil" side, with perverse intentions) - throughout the franchise. She did this on RE2, RE4, RE6 and Damnation. It's there, transparent in canon, people just choose to ignore it.

She laughs in the face of whoever she's talking to by the end of Damnation, saying she doesn't intend to deliver the Plaga; she scoffs at Simmons; she betrays Wesker and kills Krauser. She had been sabotaging Wesker for so long, that he sent Krauser to be the main agent in the mission in Spain, and Ada was just a "side effect" that he didn't have in control and had to keep an eye on, so he ordered Krauser to keep tabs on her. It's not a mutually beneficial dynamic. Ada doesn't want Wesker to succeed, she despises him; this is clear in the games in which they interact. There are even files that indicate that she was trying to double-cross and get in the way of his plans for at least 2 years before Spain, and he was constantly catching up with her. See here and here.

On her end, Mia was employed by and consciously working for a criminal syndicate.

vi) a (secretly) helping hand

oh, I'm a master pretender

just felt more alone

the further I'd go

but I'll stick around

I'll be your master defender

yeah, I'll stick around. ⁕

Ada approached characters such as John Clemens and Luis Sera, and both had a canonical intention to, in addition to putting an end to their connections with the criminal companies and organizations they've been working for, also expose and denounce them for their crimes. It's in this context that Ada comes into contact with them. And why is that?

Check John's background: he had made up his mind about disclosing Umbrella's crimes to the public. Check Luis' background: Ada went to Spain to assist in his extradition since he feared for his own life if he resolved to turn his back on the cult of Los Illuminados, and also dreaded the consequences of the liberation of Las Plagas on an international scale.

Keep in mind that Ada handed over to Wesker a USELESS Plaga sample. Wesker only got the sample currently circulating in the underground market because he went after Krauser's body. We don't know what Ada did with the master Plaga sample she obtained. We only know from Ada's Report and the Plaga Recovery file that she didn't deliver it to Wesker, and he needed to go out for a plan B to get it.

Even the G-Virus sample that fell into the hands of the clandestine business, it's possible to argue that Ada's involvement in it was flimsy, since Simmons CANONICALLY made over a thousand laboratory tests in Sherry, and, as we know, he was a leading figure in bioterrorism and bioweapons trading with the aid of his position in the US government.

But, guess what, Ada clearly is a non-white character with obvious Chinese heritage and Mia is white, so of course, OF COURSE, someone can so nonchalantly affirm that Ada, this "vile bitch", is somehow WORSE than Mia. The same Mia who watched the Bakers being destroyed. Right.

Also: trying to validate one's point by claiming anything related to the misogyny present in RE franchise, while IN THE SAME BREATH AND TWEET reducing Ada's entire character arc to that of "a sociopathic bitch cured by the magic dick of her love interest" is supposed to be a joke, right? No, really. Joke.

conclusion and a word against misogyny

we are waiting on a telegram to

give us news of the fall

I am sorry to report

dear Paris is burning after all

we have taken to the streets

in open rejoice, revolting

we are dancing a black waltz

fair Paris is burning after all. ⁕

To any Ada fan that has been reading this so far: PLEASE, I ask to consider refraining to use the "oh yes, Ada did some bad shit, bUT" take to defend the character because that isn't sustained by canon in RE, lmao. She didn't do anything evil that had an indisputable bad impact on the plot and other characters arcs. For one, I myself do love some villains, but that isn't the case with Ada.

She did do some unconventional shit yes, since she's a morally GRAY character and an anti-heroine, but by the end of the day, each and every action of hers had a positive impact on the journey of other characters and main plot. Just pay attention to it.

Like idk man, Black Widow, Elektra Natchios, Scarlet Witch and Black Cat from Marvel, Catwoman from DC, Yennefer from The Witcher (some pop culture examples that come to mind).

Saying that this is an "extremely selfish prototypal bad bitch except when it comes to the magical redeeming dick of her love interest" it's a grotesque reduction of a complex female character, and, in its attempt to critique the misogyny present in RE's franchise an expression of misogyny in itself.

Remember: Ada has actions and impact on the franchise ASIDE and IN ADDITION to her romantic involvement with Leon.

[icannotreadcursive]

Sometimes, people have different--very different--sets of headcanons and sets of ships etc for a given piece of media and cast of characters because they have basically different understandings of who those characters are.

A lot of times, that’s just because every fan as their own unique life experience to apply when engaging with and interpreting a work, so they see different things reflected back.

But when it comes to what I call Legacy Characters--characters that have had their story told and retold, adapted and readapted, reinvested and reset time and again; such as comic book characters--a huge part of who a fan understands a character to be is determined by what versions of that character they’re familiar with, what aspects of different versions have coalesced in their brain to form their sense of that character in general.  Usually, the biggest influence there is which version of a character that fan encountered first.

I see both knock-down drag-out fights and casual disrespectful disparaging comments within some fandoms--especially big comics fandoms like Marvel--that on the surface of them are more of the typical dumb “my interpretation is the only right one and anyone who disagrees is wrong and Doesn’t Understand The Media” stuff, but that I am SO SURE mostly boils down to this issue of having very different but all equally legitimate senses of the characters from having familiarity with different appearances of the character, or in a different order.

For instance--using what I find to be the most glaring case as an example--the Marvel shipping wars amongst Steve/Bucky, Steve/Tony, Sam/Steve, Bucky/Natasha, and (increasingly) Sam/Bucky shippers.  Sometimes the Pepper/Tony, Pepper/Natasha, and Bruce/Tony shippers join the fray.

These conflicts get so nasty.  Even a lot of the more chill shippers, when prompted, have very ugly things to say about ships other than their own and the people who support them.  Allegations of racism, misogyny, fetishization, and general toxicity run rampant and are often talked about as though they are the only possible reasons someone could ever have for shipping or not shipping a given pair.

I want to make it clear that I personally do ship or have shipped several of the above, including ones that mutually exclude each other.  There’s a few I’m neutral on up there, and one that kinda squicks me--we’ll get to that later.

Every single one of them is a perfectly good ship.  None of them are inherently fucked up in any way and I will not hear any argument to the contrary.  

Do some supporters of these ships get overzealous and obnoxious?  Yes, that’s kinda why we’re talking about it, but that’s not a problem with any of the ships themselves.

I’ve noticed some patterns around people being into particular ones of these ships and their personal histories with various Marvel media.

Steve/Tony: mostly comics fans at this point, either were into the comics before the MCU became a thing or the early days of the MCU got them into the comics and they’re now more into the comics than the films.  Because there’s a LOT of material in the comics to support the ship!  There’s so much!  Including the fact that in one comics reality where Tony is a woman, she and Steve get married!  

Now, there was a ton of this’ere Stony fic that got churned out in the early days of the MCU, a lot of it from fans getting into this world for the first time through the phase 1 movies, at which point other potential partners for these guys either hadn’t been introduced as characters yet, or hadn’t been fleshed out.  A lot of film-main (as opposed to comics-main) Stony shippers moved away from the pairing as the MCU continued, Bucky became the counterpoint of Steve’s Character arc, Sam got brought in, Pepper and Bruce each got more screen time, and the dynamic between Steve and Tony in the films got increasingly adversarial in a way that’s less sexy more fucked up.

The battle cry against Stony from other factions, especially from the Steve/Bucky camp is usually “but they’re so toxic!” and, I mean, yeah--if your sense of these characters is primarily based on how they are in the MCU, they are.  But in my experience, even if they’re working MCU events and settings, the Steve and Tony being imagined by Stony shippers aren’t really that Steve and Tony.

Steve/Bucky: look, Stucky is an MCU thing.  Articles have been written and published about the fact that the dynamic between Steve and Bucky in the MCU follows the beats of an epic romance to a T.  The basis for this ship is all there on screen--throw in a little bit of history nerd mojo and you’re in deep.

By my observation and estimation, most new or formerly-very-casual Marvel fans who came in via the films and remained film-mains, and who are inclined to not-strictly-heteronormative shipping at all went the Stucky route.  Folks who initially shipped Stony then switched to Stucky are pretty common.  People starting with Stucky and then switching to any other ship with Steve to the exclusion of Stucky? Very rare.  And while for a lot of people Stucky is their OTP in the strictest sense, I do see a lot of Stucky shippers who are here for other ships as well, either in an alternate realities kinda way or an amicable exes/polyamory kinda way.

The only people I’ve seen who have a problem with Stucky as a ship (other than “my ship is a different ship, therefore this one is bad and wrong”) are comics-mains whose sense of Steve and Bucky is heavily informed by runs of the comics in which Bucky is significantly younger than Steve and kid sidekick type figure.  For them, the dynamic between the general forms of these characters leans mentor/student or protector/charge, so the inclination is to read the MCU relationship as fraternal, because it being romantic is squicky based on their sense of the characters.

Sam/Steve: comics-mains, film-mains with significant comics familiarity, film-mains who just aren’t into Stucky for one reason or another, or film-mains who are just really into Anthony Mackey which is a perfectly valid reason to get behind a ship.  People who know Falcon from the comics seem much more likely to be into this ship and also more invested in this ship.  I’m not qualified to say much about support for this ship from the comics themselves because my personal familiarity with Marvel comics doesn’t include much of Sam Wilson at all, but I am absolutely qualified to say there’s support from the films, especially CA:WS.

The worst vitriol against this ship tends to come from overzealous Stucky OTP shippers who really need to remember that fandom is supposed to be fun, and flat out racists.  That must be acknowledged and needs to be addressed.  Fandom racism in general, and against Sam in particular is a thing and it can absolutely be a factor in shipping.  

However it’s not inherently racist to just not ship Sam/Steve because you see them as bros, or because Stucky is your OTP, or because you ship Sam with someone else, or whatever.  Worthwhile to take a minute to examine why you don’t ship it, if you don’t, and check that for racial bias in how you view and treat Sam as a character, especially if you’re white.

Sam/Steve and Stucky are the two ships I see coexist the most!  A lot of people ship both of them separately and exclusive from one another, but a lot of people also go ether the OT3 or the “Steve and Sam were definitely a thing for while there but now they’re not” route.

Bucky/Natasha: comics-mains or film-mains with significant comics familiarity, particularly for the comics worlds in which Bucky and Natasha are a couple, which seems self explanatory as to why that correlates.  Not a lot for it in the films, Nat and Buck don’t interact much in the films that we see, and they’re kinda trying to kill each other in much of what we do see.  But, like I said, they’re a thing in some of the comics so there we have that.

This is the one that squicks me.  Clearly it’s a super valid ship; depending on the canon it’s a canon ship.  Frankly, they make sense together, canon or not--their individual backgrounds as spysassins and with brainwashing etc means they’d be able to understand one another in ways no one else around them really can.  But my personal amalgamation of these characters from the films and what comics I’m familiar with has Bucky having been Natasha’s teacher when she was a kid in Red Room.  So I cannot ship it, I can’t do it.  

The fact that I personally am squeaked by it has absolutely no impact on the fact that it’s a good ship, and the fact that it’s a good ship cannot and does not negate the fact that it squicks me.

Bucky/Sam: okay, there’s not a lot of this out there yet, but what there is seems to mostly be coming from film-mains who either don’t ship or co-ship Stucky and/or Sam/Steve, and who really liked the dynamic between these two in Civil War, and I guarantee you we’re about to get so much more of this ship with Falcon and Winter Soldier premiering.  I’ve already seen some hate directed at this ship from the same places Sam/Steve gets hate.  I predict, though, that this one will also get co-shipped alongside Stucky by the less strictly OTP of those shippers and I’m curious to see what the dynamic ends up being between Bucky/Sam shippers and Sam/Steve shippers as this camp grows.

In conclusion, I guess, note that not shipping a ship doesn’t have to mean attacking that ship (and it shouldn’tI) and not liking a ship, even being deeply uncomfortable with a ship for your own reasons doesn’t mean that ship is bad.  We’ve all got our own individual sets of experiences both in life and with the characters in our fandoms that can dramatically change how we see those characters and their relationships to one another.  This gets especially complicated and diverse with Legacy Characters like those from sprawling long-running comics multiverses.  Someone’s understanding and interpretation being different from yours does not make either of you wrong!

As long as no one is an asshole about it it, it’s actually really interesting and cool to compare interpretations and see how your understandings overlap and differ, to think about what bits of canon have been formative for you and what personal experience may have made you inclined to interpret certain things certain ways.

Fandom is supposed to be fun.  Shipping is supposed to be fun.  You can and should hype up and express love for your own ships without tearing down others.

[waltzofthewifi]

On Creating and Being In Certain Fandoms

I’ve been wrestling with this idea of removing myself from fandoms based on works with heavy levels of racism and other problems - namely Wandavision and Harry Potter

For those who don’t know, Wandavision whitewashed Wanda and Pietro, a problem pretty much all the Marvel films with some version of the Maximoffs have had. It also treated Monica very poorly.

Harry Potter has problems with misogyny, racism, cultural appropriation, and fatmisia. There’s lots of resources to learn more about this, but that’s beside the point.

I grew up with the mindset of separating creators from their art, but I’ve come to the realization that that’s hard to do with these fandoms. Part of me wants to completely cut ties with them, except -

Except I have this big Frankenstein-ish multi fandom work with both fandoms included - NJAMFHGS.

Maybe it’s selfish, but I don’t want to abandon this monstrosity over two of the thirteen+ fandoms in it. And I don’t want to, though I could and probably should, just finish it up where it’s at.

You see, the thing with monstrosities like that is that they are a good place to try out new techniques. And I’m hoping to use some of the scenes as art practice, and POV practice, and a bunch of other things I wouldn’t be as brave about in a slightly less all over the place work.

So, yes, I will be continuing to work on NJAMFHGS, including some fan art, but overall I’m going to try to not be as involved in HP or WV

[inmyarmswrappedin]

It kinda confusing to me how people think it's absurd Sana/Amira/Imane left their religion but would love if Yousef/ Sofiane who grew up in a religion that didn't suited them went back to Islam or Dani convert. I would hate both. Religion is a big deal and I would never convert to be with someone. And if they showed that, it would have be on their own season , not Sana's. It would be better a relanshionship where both of them practice the Islam. Where NO ONE would have to change something so big

+ so it makes sense to me that Dani and Amira didn't end up togheter. And we don't know if the other Sana's end up with their pairs. They are just teenagers and this big decision can be dificult when they are older.

Hi anon 🍃 I think this issue is more complicated than “if Sana/Amira/Imane won’t leave Islam, Yousef/Sofiane/Dani shouldn’t have to convert (back) to Islam either!”

I think one thing Skam España got right is that the Sana/Yousef conflict is on a subtextual level about integration. I read opinions of people who aren’t in fandom and aren’t interested in the opinions of Muslim and poc, and one thing that struck me about these conversations is which s4 characters they regarded positively and why. For instance, Elias drinking was regarded positively because to them it meant that Elias was letting go of his Muslim values and adopting Western values by drinking. Similarly, Yousef leaving Islam because he perceived Islam to be harmful to his white friend was also regarded positively.

In real life, second generation Muslim Immigrants can become atheist or Christian or neopagans or be more or less devout, and it can happen because they woke up one day and saw their religion had been harming them, or harming their parents, or harming a white friend or a woman or a gay person or whoever. A hijabi can marry a Christian man or a Hindu woman or a Taoist nb person. The problem is that media/art doesn’t happen in a vacuum. The Sana seasons are occurring at a time of great Islamophobia in the western world, where people are being fed the idea that the greatest enemy to LGBTI people are Muslims (I can tell you the biggest threat against LGBTI people in Spain aren’t Muslims, but right-wing parties and their adherents). Muslim people are being told to leave or be ousted, at worst, or ~integrate and adopt western values~, at best. 

And tbh, these networks making Sana seasons because they’re contractually obligated to do so are scared as fuck, because the islamophobic propaganda machine is really powerful. Entire media conglomerates sustain themselves on portraying Muslims as Public Enemy #1. So they do these lukewarm seasons where the Sanas are shown to be on the receiving end of islamophobia, racism and misogyny, without pointing fingers to the people at fault (because in some ways, these media companies are the people at fault, esp if they’re in the news business, and profiting off pitting the poor against each other). 

Anyway. I would’ve hated a storyline where Dani converted to Islam, because Dani would’ve still been a whitewashed version of a moc. (Yes. Yes he is. The Dani/Amira conflict is the Sana/Yousef conflict over religion and integration. Give it up already.) But I also agree that a conversion storyline for Dani would’ve only made sense if Dani had been the main, because he would have had the most dynamic character arc of the two. Other than that... As an atheist (so, like, I have no idea what I’m talking about, really. I don’t particularly care about people’s relationship with religion because it’s not my business lmao), I think religion is a big or a small a deal as you want to make it. Some people have a change of heart and convert in 7 weeks and some clips. Some others are born again later in adulthood. 

If I pretend Yousef’s character wasn’t originally a moc, I think I could’ve been interested in Dani converting. But lmao no network in the western world has the utter balls to go against the Islamophobic propaganda machine in such a way. 

(Anyway, for people who think I’m just a hater who haaaates interfaith relationships, I ship Petter and Zehra in Blank, and I ship many interfaith and interracial relationships! Fuck, I even ship Vilde/Sana and most of the remake versions! Go suck your toe and leave me alone!)

[keeloves]

Racism and Misogyny in Fandom

What is it with fandoms having an obsession with abusive white characters who they consider conventionally attractive? A big example would be Damon Salvatore fans. They swear up and down that Damon isn’t abusive and he gets coddled like no tomorrow. He actively has done heinous things to people, he raped Caroline, he molested Elena, has gone on a killing spree just because some woman hurt his feelings, he promised to ruin Stefan’s life and is ablest towards him. Yet people rip on Stefan for eating children and killing people even though Stefan is a ripper and has an addiction.The Damon fans rip on Stefan for becoming the ripper of Monterrey and completely blame Stefan. I am not saying we should absolve Stefan from his horrible crimes because we shouldn’t but who was there encouraging Stefan to feed on people, who didn’t respect Stefan’s choice not to feed on people oh that;s right DAMON! Yet people claim that it was because Damon was trying to teach Stefan moderation. Guys Stefan is an addict! Being an addict is a mental illness! As Stefan put “I am a ripper a ripper doesn’t stop” “The more I get the more I want”. That’s more compelling than just oh “I killed someone because some woman broke my heart”. Damon has actively hit on Elena while she was with Stefan, he entered in a relationship with Katherine knowing full well what she was doing to Stefan and yet girls worship and Damon’s altar and it’s disgusting. He killed Stefan’s oldest friend on Stefan’s birthday. I saw an article saying how Damon was a good brother. The titled alone made my head hurt. Then we have people writing how emotionally intelligent Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is even though he kidnapped Rey, he killed his dad and he has emotional issues. Yet, we have a whole fandom hating on a 13 year old girl and calling her a homewrecker for messing up an adult relationship even though she was just trying to find her father. Yes I am talking about April Nardini. She didn’t Luke keep her a secret, she didn’t make Luke lie to Lorelai. A child is not responsible for adult problems and yet we have people attacking her for ADULT PROBLEMS! She was just born found her father and its not her fault she was kept a secret. Then you have the This is Us portion of the fandom who made up murder theories around Deja a young dark skin girl because of what Beth and Randal said and because she smashed a car. This is the same girl who threw her hands up and backed away out of fear that Randal was going to hit her, this is the same girl who flinched when Randal grabbed her wrist by surprised and hid in a bathroom stall explaining to him why she can’t be randomly grabbed. Kid Kevin and teen Kevin can be a total dick to his adopted black brother and people will make excuses for him. Deja was angry because she felt her mom abandon her, she felt alone, and wanted her mom even though her mom was not was best for her and she can’t feel angry at her? Then the Flash fandom or more specially the Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost/Snowbarry fandom coddle Caitlin even though she is rude to almost every person of color she has contact with or that she meets, she is a human trafficker, she tried to kill her team several times and she is terribly written and the actress is mediocre. Yet people will say Iris is worse than that. If a woman especially a black woman shows any emotion, she is annoying, she is a whiny baby and it’s annoying. People really need to stop coddling abusive white characters just because you think they are attractive or at least be honest about how problematic your favs are. The lack of honesty and the amount of cognitive dissonance is what is ruins the fan of being part of fandoms! 

[vanimeldes]

can you elaborate a bit what made you divorce from asoiaf/got as you say?

Ooof, so, after the G0T finale, I think my reasons should be obvious, but you also mentioned the books and yes, I lost my interest in books too and I will try to not make this answer too long, but in the same time, to convey all my thoughts on this matter.

*Putting it below cut because.... when I`ll explain the problem of Martin`s fans later, you`ll understand why*

It`s amazing that just a year ago, AS0IAF was my second favourite franchise ever, second only to Tolkien legendarium, but even then, I didn`t love it for the fantasy elements in it, but rather for its characters and some twists and how Martin does forshadowing and writes the dualistic nature of the human being, but...as I read other fantasy series that do these four things AND have fantasy elements, I paused a bit and thought that these series would be just as popular, if they had popular adaptations such as G0T. But I got that AS0IAF was the first that had the opportunity to be adapted and I accepted that. Yet the show highlighted (and in some cases, amplified) some of the very big issues of these books and yes, D&D have many things to be blamed of, but it`s not as if they didn`t have a basis for their fuckery in the books. Martin is just as guilty. So here we go.

1. I am not sure if Martin has ever seen a 13 year old girl, but he writes grown-ass men having fixations and being sexually attracted by Daenerys and Sansa, two prepubescent girl. Martin would call it the gritty realism of the medieval times, but last time I checked, he was writing fantasy, not historical fiction. Fantasy means you can do what you want in your world, so even if you are inspired by the medieval times, it`s still YOUR fictional world and no one will question your research or accuracy if you want to have a female character married when she is at least, say, 18, not FUCKING 13. Not to mention that even in our real world, child brides existed but, guess what, in most the cases, both spouses waited until the wife reached a certain age (16 or older) to consummate their marriage. @eyes-painted-with-kohl explained in the notes of one of my posts and even gave an example or two. I can think of Isabella of France and Edward II. They were married when she was 13 (according to some historical evidence)/16 (according to others). Yes, I know he was homosexual, but he still needed heirs, so they still had children...4 years later, when she was 17/20.  

2. In this same vein, the treatment of his female characters (with the exception of Arya and, maybe Catelyn) is egregious. Daenerys and Sansa are sexualized by the male characters (don`t get me started of the bullshit that is S/ansan, because The Hound is still a murderous man who is aroused by a 12 year-old girl, who invaded her personal space and even pointed a knife to her; do not get me started on book!Jorah, who is a creep). Cersei is paraded naked on the streets and needless to say that during the walk of atonement for an adulterous woman in medieval times, she was never stripped naked; she only had her hair shaved and walked BAREFOOT. That`s it. What Martin did to Cersei is just disgusting. We are shown how Arianne uses sex to have Ser Arys help with her plans and it is implied that Margaery uses sex also. I get that sex is Cersei`s mechanism, but you have two more feminine (this is important) women in power and both of them explicitly use, or are implied to use sex as a mean to gain that power. I get Brienne`s point, her treatment bothers me the least, but it`s annoying from time to time how most of the other characters see only her ”ugliness” and nothing else. Of course, this is the result of the heavy patriarchy in Westeros world that I will discuss in the next paragraph.

3. The heavy patriarchy in Westeros world is nowhere similar to the patriarchy in the medieval times, and that was Martin`s choice and his only. A clear example is what was dubbed the Dead Ladies Club, namely a group of dead female characters whose only purpose was to serve as object of desire for one or more men, to give birth AND to die (gruesomely in some cases). Joanna Lannister is meant only to further fuel the enmity between Tywin and Aerys and Tywin`s hatred towards Tyrion. Elia exists solely to die gruesomely and motivate Doran`s desire for vengeance. Lyanna (the most explored dead lady still exists mainly to give birth to Jon and to be one of the reasons behind a war started by men. Rhaella exists solely to be raped by Aerys and give birth and die. Ashara Dayne exists solely to commit suicide. Ned, a POV character, spends chapters thinking about his father and siblings and never to his mother. Martin had the audacity to say that Tolkien himself didn`t left notes about Aragorn`s mother, but Tolkien had an entire story when Aragorn`s mother and her impact of his life is explored (more than his father, for that matter). The heavy patriarchy serves as reason for the utterly disgusting right of the first night (read Fire & Blood for more). I am not so versed into history as @mydaylightruyi who discussed this, but I too know that in our real world, this practice was a MYTH. But GRRM made it very present in his world because of reasons I guess. 

4. The racism is just rampant and disgusting and even I didn`t notice all the racism until I read @polysorscha `s insights. There`s a to be discussed here, mainly about the portrayal of the Dothraki and how they are reduced to barbaric rapists - interestingly, they are supposedly inspired by Huns, but guess what: the Huns formed a very permisive society, where any religion and culture had its places, where women were very respected and, while cruel  in the European people`s POV, were never....like THIS. 

5. The rape cultures. The Ironborn. Similarly to the Dothraki, their culture is reduced to pillaging and rape. That scene when Euron conquers that castle in the Reach ( I forgot its name) and how he had the daughters of that lord stripped naked and serve his men the meal, and how his men started raping them was....honestly, I wish I could have skipped this chapter. I still read fantasy books written by men more than I read fantasy books written by women, but never in my life did it occur to me to read something like this in a novel that is so hailed for fantasy (?) and realism (???????). I`m not saying that things like that didn`t happen in our cruel history but, again, Martin writes a fictional story. He could choose not to include the rampant violence against women, cultures whose practices are reduced to this utterly gross things, racist and orientalist elements, but he chooses not to. Why? I don`t know. I am not sure I want to know. And Victarion`s POV...oh boy. Or Theon, in ACOK, when he literally rapes that Kyra girl after takes Winterfell. Not only that it`s very disturbing, especially coming from a character that is supposed to be redeemed in some way (yes, I know how he`s been through in ADWD and I also know this is meant to be his redemption arc, but I personally still can`t get over this). And in the same time, while we`re still at the redemption discussion, Theon will surely undergo a redemption of some sorts, Cersei (a female character) will most likely be killed by her lover/brother, who will strangle her to death, most likely while he will embrace her, without a second chance of a droplet of redemption. 

6. I love Tyrion and I love Tywin but in the same time, I acknowledge their misogyny, but Martin chose to write them as misogynists, but in the same time, writing them in such ways that they are inherently labelled as „badass”. He also says that Tyrion is his favourite, but his POV is utterly misogynistic. The reason he kills Shae is because she dared to sleep with his father, but let`s unpack the things a bit: she was a former sex worker with no power, who was forced by the most powerful man in Westeros. She had no choice. She couldn`t refuse him. Yet, for Tyrion, she is ”the lying whore” and that`s it. We are given no chance to try to see the things from her POV (I am not implying that she should have been a POV character, but Martin should have written Tyrion considering for a moment what other choices Shae had). 

7. I discovered that Martin straightly ripped-off many plot points and themes from another series who isn`t half as popular, sadly. 

8. Last, but not the least, the snake pit that is THE FANDOM. You know, as much as I tried to stay away from its toxicity because „it`s just an internet thing, it can`t affect me”, it did affect my online experience in ways that I hadn`t imagined. To sum up, if you don`t like a character or hate another, you are  a pariah. You are dumb because you don`t understand that character or you are a misogynist (because, sadly, this discourse is mostly about the female characters). If you dare to voice up your thoughts about a certain event and/or a certain character and tag your post as #asoiaf or #asoiaf meta (you know, because this is it to me: a meta; plus, I want to have an ordering system in my blog so that whenever I want to look for a certain post in a certain topic or fandom, I would only look into the tag) or #my meta (highlighted „MY” because this is also important, as in it`s MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION), and those thoughts happen to not fit into the general consensus of the „great AS0IAF bloggers” (namely those meta writers with many followers who sound like they already read TWOW and ADOS), you are trashed and called an idiot. Granted, I met enough great people, meta writers included, in this fandom, and it was a real pleasure to chat with them, but I also had bad experiences with others and idk, I thought we were all mature people, but the way they reacted can hardly be described as mature. And in the same point, it`s just funny to see the hardcore Martin stans reacting in front of the clear evidence that Martin isn`t half as original as they thought (see 7) and acting like they are personally attacked.

Ok, it took me an hour. There is a lot more to discussed, but I got bored and I honestly want to shut the door to this fandom forever. To answer another question, yes, I will be reading the last two books  if when they will come out. I invested many months in this series not to finish it. I`ll probably block all the ASOIAF-related tags to avoid any interaction with its fandom during those times.

[flatoutchaos]

“we need to address how (cis) women often get away with pedophilic behaviors”

“for example, teachers having sex with and grooming their male students, or women objectifying child stars” 

this is a very big problem and very gross! we have to teach children how to identify grooming behaviors and hold adults accountable to make this behavior less acceptable. we also need to address how discussions of rape really dont bring this dynamic up

“some girls even write nsfw content of fictional children” 

okay, yes this does happen but why is it being portrayed as worse than the irl examples!? like, no matter how gross a ship can it really be compared to a real life pedophile grooming a real child? this is what i don’t like about these kinds of posts! it trivializes issues that are traumatizing and detrimental to real life people and derails it to talk about fictional spaces which can be dark gross and distasteful. but they also arent harmful. many may argue that it has the potential to be harmful and yes thats a good point! so does anything fucking else! ie. the dihydrogen monoxide parody, where people refame the effects of water into something harmful. and thent he post goes on to say “when people bring this up with shut down with claims of misogyny.” I have heard one (1) fucking person say that and it was about fanfiction. this post is about fanfiction now! Why did you open a post about fanfiction with real life examples of PEDOPHILIA!?

listen im not trying to write an essay here but it disgusts me how some people on this site will go to any and every extent to try to get rid of smut they find distasteful even comparing it to real life examples of pedophilia that harm real children. like, imagine id people tries to ban civil war re-enactors from internet spaces because they found their interest in the civil war distasteful because of the racism that caused it in the same way, it would be deemed ridiculous!

stop bringing real life issues into fandom drama, you shouldt compare fictional ethics to real shit that happens to real people

[caslikescoffeeandfreckles]

(1)Thank you for answering! I don't find a lot of black people in fandoms which I completely understand. I'm sorry your interests have caused you to suffer through internalized racism and antiblackness. i hope it's gotten better for you as you continue to grow. I've been fortunate to not suffer through it. I firmly love being black and I've never hated it. My hate for myself stems from my lack of skinniness, my scars, and big ass head rather than my black features.

(2)Of course I have my problems with the black community but it's normal stuff like the fact that they limit black boys as soon as they're born or the hypersexualization of black girls in the community and The lgbtphobia and barely concealed misogyny. But I just feel guilty for not being interested in black content created by black people. I really try to be interested but it's like everything for black people is a carbon copy of one another. 

(3)I really try to be interested but it's like everything for black people is a carbon copy of one another. It's like all the scripts follow the same formula and it is exhausting. Why can't we explore space or fight demons and fall in love with angels? Why can't we be sorcerers and witches and warlocks? Why can't we be werewolves and lost royalty? You know. And it's like when black creators make their own movies it's the same thing and I'm tired. 

(4)Why can't black boys and girls be exposed to things other than the suffering of their people? It's important yes it is but it should not be our only narrative in the media. Hopefully it changes for future black babies. Thank you for listening. Sorry I'm so painfully shy that I can't message you yet lol. 

Hi!! Sorry for the huge delay! I’ve had the flu this week and I’m just an unorganized mess of a person in general. 

But I understand what you’re saying. The lack of diverse stories that involve black people is a huge problem and even when we are the ones writing the stories, we still fall back on a lot of harmful stereotypes and pigeonhole ourselves. I understand on one hand, it’s creators and writers being authentic to themselves and their life experiences and that’s valid. They should be able to tell their story even if it involves gangers and drug dealers and the caricatures we’re used to seeing because that is the reality for a large number of us. 

On the other hand, I think a big reason our stories seem so monotonous is that we’ re not used to seeing ourselves in other positions. It’s honestly a vicious cycle. When you don’t see yourself being represented in fantasy or horror or romcoms, those types of stories don’t feel authentic to write??? When you spend a life time forcing yourself to shed your race so you can relate to white protagonists, you almost... forget that someone who looks like you could have that role.

Like I’ve been writing fantasy novels since I was in 8th grade. I’ve written entire series about vampires and banshees and magical words where people have special powers and it wasn’t until I was in college that I sat back and realized every main character (which were always based on myself) was white. I never wrote a single black character into any of my own works. 

To have diverse stories we have to unlearn centuries’ worth of bullshit that have culminated in us not seeing ourselves as real multidimensional people. We’ve been taught for too long that our only literary value is in our trauma. We have to unlearn how to write about the black experience as if there’s only one, and acknowledge the nuances that come with being black. 

I think we’re starting to see that coming though - I really do. We’re seeing more works that center around the diaspora, fantasy worlds built around African origin myths, black superhero shows. My students really love Black Lightning on the CW and it has queer characters too who they love! Lena Waithe and Issa Rae are two of my favorite Hollywood creators right now. They’ve made some groundbreaking stuff and they’re only just getting started! It’s going to take some time, but I really think that if we keep demanding diverse stories and working on our own art, we’re going to get those special stories out there that you and I want to see!

[kittyprincessofcats]

I know I’m about to open a can of worms here, but... Can someone explain to me how the mind of a Loki-hater works? I just don’t understand? I mean, if someone just doesn’t like him or doesn’t care... fine, whatever, we all find different characters appealing. But what I don’t understand is the people who genuinely call him “a priviledged white murderboy” or compare him to characters like Kylo Ren (who is a priviledged white murderboy, just to be clear on that).

How can someone watch Thor 1, The Avengers, and Thor TDW and somehow come to the conclusion that Loki is a priviledged, sheltered, rich kid who never had problems and kills people for the lulz. HOW? Did they watch the movies with both eyes and ears closed? Did they only watch The Avengers and skip through half of Thor 1? Is it the misogyny (most of Loki’s fans are women so obviously they must only like him for his looks, “dumb fangirls” etc.)? Seriously, how do you watch these movies and miss out on:

- Odin being a dictator and colonizer who kidnapped Loki from his home country as a baby, changed his appearance with a spell to make him “pass” as Asgardian, stripped him of his birth culture and even raised him to consider his birth country evil

- Loki being neglected and not taken seriously his whole life, having his “feminine” interests mocked in Asgard’s partiachic society, constantly being made fun of by Thor’s friends, his own brother - who he adores more than anything - putting him down all the time, his father never acknowleding him

- Loki (who never wanted the throne in the first place) having to suddenly run a kingdom when his brother gets himself banished and his father falls into the Odinsleep, having to suddenly manage a war he didn’t start, dealing with Thor’s friends commiting treason, dealing with the revelation of his heritage and the feeling that he has to prove himself to Odin now. (Okay, to be fair, I think Frigga handing him control and telling him to make his father proud was a deleted scene, so the actual movie might make it look like he took the throne and planned all of this, but he didn’t. Think about it for one second: There’s no way he could have predicted the Odinsleep or Thor’s banishment. He looks shocked when both happen.)

- Loki trying to destroy his birth realm in a desperate attempt to prove that he’s “not like them”, Loki being so desperate that he commits suicide when Odin doesn’t approve.

- No one in Asgard (except for Frigga) mourning Loki at all. Loki asking Thor “Did you mourn?” in The Avengers, because he knows they didn’t and he’s right.

- Loki being tortured by Thanos and forced to attack New York. How is that something people miss? Did everyone take their bathroom break during that scene where The Other threatens Loki? Did they conveniently ignore the after-credits scene?

- Odin telling Loki “Your birthright was to die” and acting like Loki should be grateful Odin didn’t murder him as a baby. Just in case you forgot: This was their first interaction after Loki’s suicide attempt. Odin found out his son - whom he drove to try and commit suicide - was alive, and the first thing Odin did was telling him he should have died and that he would have executed him for his crimes if it wasn’t for Frigga.

- Just to put this into perspective: When Thor started a war and killed hundreds of Frost Giants, Odin banished him to Earth without his powers for three days. When Loki tried to commit suicide, got tortured and attacked Earth and killed people because Thanos forced him to, Odin wanted to execute him, only agreed not to because of Frigga, then locked Loki up in solitary confinement for the rest of his life and didn’t allow Frigga to see him.

- Loki wasn’t even allowed to go to his mother’s funeral. Thor never even asks him why he attacked Earth, only visits Loki when he needs his help, refuses to comfort him about Frigga’s death and promises to lock Loki up again if he does help him. And people are blaming Loki for not telling Thor he was alive? Would you have told the man who promised to lock you up for the rest of eternity that you’re alive? I kinda doubt it.

- And even after all of that, Loki was merciful enough to only banish Odin to a care-home on Earth instead of killing him. (Friendly reminder that Kylo Ren murdered his father while his father was offering him a second chance. Odin never offered Loki any chances, straight-up wanted to kill him, and Loki still showed mercy. But sure, tell me more about how your comparison is totally appropriate.)

How do people watch ALL OF THAT, and somehow not end up at least admitting that Loki was treated unfairly? How do people watch these movies and say that he’s selfish when all he’s ever been doing is sacrificing himself for his family over and over again and getting nothing in return? HOW??? Someone explain this to me, because it blows my mind.

And sidenote - the whole “straight white murderboy” thing is such complete BS it makes me want to slam my head against my desk. 1) Loki’s not straight. He’s canonically bi/pan in the comics and queercoded in all of this movies. 2) Not even the “boy” part is true - Loki is genderfluid. 3) The “white” part is what really blows my mind when people use it as a reason to hate this character. Because first of all Loki’s entire story is about being a different race than the rest of his family and being treated like shit because of it. (Yes, I realize it’s “fantasy blue people racism”, not real-world racism, but it’s still an aspect of the character that - in the fantasy context - makes him the opposite of priviledged.) And secondly... all of the Avengers in A1 are also white? 5/6 of them are straight white guys? So who are we supposed to root for, according to these Loki-haters? In Star Wars, there’s POC heroes who get ignored by the fandom and I understand the frustration of everyone loving the white villain instead - but in the first(!) Avengers everyone is white? So who does tumblr think is a more deserving fave here??? I just don’t understand this logic even in theory??

(Seriously, someone explain this to me? Is is because of the Hitler comparison in The Avengers? Because that honestly should be blamed on Joss Whedon being a shitty writer who can’t get a ‘character is evil’ message accross differently. Narratively, this comparison doesn’t fit at all. Or is it because people took the ‘Loki keeps betraying Thor’ line from Ragnarok and took it seriously instead of judging the movies by what actually happened? I tried to read posts where people explain why they hate Loki, and whenever they list all the “horrible things he’s done” half of them are things that never even happened? Like... “repeatedly betrayed his brother who trusts him” - NOT TRUE, “tried to commit genocide on earth” - NO HE DIDN’T??, “killed more people than anyone else” - FACTUALLY WRONG, “always fakes his death” - HE LITERALLY NEVER DID, “betrayed Asgard” - BITCH WHEN?, “only did one selfless thing in his life” - which one of them are you talking about, just wondering?, “freed Hela” - are we just making shit up at this point? he didn’t even know about Hela!, “caused Odin’s death” - why is anyone acting like that’s a bad thing and Odin didn’t deserve to die?, “facist dictator” - again: WHERE? Do any of you stupid Americans even know what facism is? Stop throwing around big words if you don’t know how to use them.)

Or is it just that people don’t actually know the movies, see a villain who has huge female fanbase and come to the “obvious” conclusion that it must be because those women are stupid and “like making excuses for bad boys”? Do people take Tom Hiddelston more seriously when he talks about Loki’s motivations and says he’s just misunderstood and not evil? Because this time it’s a man saying it?

[bottomdiluc]

you are everything that is wrong with this fandom. fuck you for running out one of the nicest, sweetest artists that remained for some fucking fluff fanart that you took exception to. i hope one day when you grow up you'll realize the extent of the damage you and your anti kind have spread.

oh, you’re talking about that one sheef artist who told me that they don’t care if their actions hurt people, they’re gonna do what they please?

alrighty, lemme explain you something.

i don’t really care if you read this cause more than likely, you’re not gonna and you just wanted some moral superiority high out of this, but i’ve lost interest in this whole fiasco cause someone acted like getting criticized was the equivalent of death threats. i don’t have any sympathy for people who act like someone being uncomfortable is oppressing them and that really hurtful actions that are perpetuated is just the hurt person overreacting.

i sent that person 7 tweets in a convo they initiated, asking why people are upset at them drawing a canonically gay male character with women. they asked why their sh///llura doodle garnered such negative attention.

and here i come cause i had been considering following them cause i had seen their art around sometimes so i periodically check on blogs that i am considering following so i can scope out their opinions and make sure they don’t produce content i don’t want to see. i won’t excuse a person’s pretty content if they have terrible opinions.

so, here they are, saying their instagram, which i don’t have one, is a mess with people calling it gay erasure and homophobia, and they said they didn’t know why people were calling them homophobic for it. so, i had the idea in mind to approach them and tell them that yes, there are people who find it abhorrent to see people place gay or lesbian characters in m/f relationships. they have the right to feel uncomfortable and their personal reasons are valid. 

i wasn’t really a fan of how they were reacting to the criticism and yeah, perhaps people were going overboard and being really rude, but the general consensus was the same and perhaps if it was stated calmly and differently and without “u deserve to die for drawing this i hope u get the electric chair” or “you should have been aborted” that usually accompanies those kinds of tweets.

so, this is what i told them:

see? that’s the first reply 

i understand that people are less willing to listen to you when you come at them screaming and calling all kinds of insults and that your lack of civility will turn them off from wanting to read what you have to say. 

in it, i addressed that yes, what you’re doing is engaging in harmful content and creating harmful content.

unfortunately, i can’t gather their response to show you, but i’m pretty sure you can go back through their replies and see what they told me.

they had said that it was censorship that people were imposing. they also remarked that they drew m/m content such as sh///nce and sheef, and that there isn’t any way they could be homophobic for drawing that

this is what i told them:

in their response to me was basically “i’ll do what i want, idc if people get upset at what i do, they can just block me and move on.”

and this is my response and the last time i engaged with them:

and here is basically me saying, “hey, don’t be upset if people are uncomfortable with what you’re doing and the depictions you’re creating”. i didn’t kick and scream and cry and call them all kinds of deplorable and terrible names, or @ them constantly and tell them to die or some shit like that. 

this is all due to them being unable to handle people being upset at their actions and criticizing them and acting like people approaching them civilly is akin to sending death threats. y’all really need to stop thinking that your actions are free of criticism and consequences.  

people are are affected by another’s actions, esp a minority group, expressing that they’re uncomfortable and hurt by what you do, and being told in the end:

and you know what? it’s not my fault or my problem that they’re acting childish and blaming people being upset and uncomfortable on them and brushing off any valid concerns.

i don’t give a fuck that they’re leaving, i don’t give a fuck that they blocked every single person that was telling them respectfully why they’re uncomfortable and acting like they were bullying and oppressing them. refusing to see what people have to say when they’re affected by your actions and perpetuating something that they have to suffer for in real life without care or refusing to take the steps to make sure you they cultivate it with concern and caution is pretty immature and dumb as hell.

i have no sympathy for someone who cries and whines about people being uncomfortable about their actions like biphobia or racism or misogyny, actual actions that are legit harmful and not “they like a ship i don’t! this makes me so mad!” kind of bullshit fandom has been producing and creating false dog whistles, who wants to participate in gay erasure and homophobia and then gets upset at others for their reaction to it. 

like i said, i don’t care anymore, they can leave, they can take their sensitivity and thin skin somewhere else. it’s their problem that they don’t want to handle the backlash to their actions, esp ones that hold a heavy weight, for a situation that they created and decided that they couldn’t hold the power anymore and ran off cause it became too much.

fandom doesn’t absolve you of your behavior and people with hefty followings need to realize that their actions are going to reach a large audience. people with big followings tend to use those followings to garner sympathy and paint themselves as a victim of a situation they created and are looking to be excused and that their following can forgive them without doing anything to make up for their behavior.

you perpetuate hurtful behavior? you’re going to get people who won’t be intimidated by the amount of followers you have and and confront you.

i never harassed, bullied, or tried to do what i can to run them off; they chose to overreact to people affected by their actions and blame them for it. it’s not my fault that they’re upset about it, and i frankly don’t care that they didn’t like it.

like i said, this is the first and only time i’ve ever talked to them in 7 tweets, and somehow, that counts as bullying and trying to run people out of the fandom.

but hey, they should get a pass for their gay erasure and admit they know they’re doing it and that they’re gonna continue to produce content that is hurtful to others, and having no problem with seeing a gay character and deciding they don’t have to respect them or the audience it was intended for. all because they’re an artist and people wanna bend over backwards to make sure that assure that person that their hurtful actions are soothed.

but hey, poc or lgbt expressing concern over someone’s behavior are always seen as the aggressive ones out to ruin people’s fun cause they want people to “stop having that fun” cause the fun they’re having is hurting people.

and that is exactly what this artist is claiming, except knowing that their following is gonna believe them regardless of how in the wrong they were.

also, y’all really gotta stop acting like “anti” can be applied to every little situation that causes you infractions. someone letting you know that hey, this action hurts me and i’m concerned about your willingness to engage in it? not an anti. it’s not “anti-like” behavior to want respect and for your boundaries to be respected. it’s not anti behavior because they want you to stop perpetuating the very things that hurt or have hurt them. 

yes, i can recognize an anti’s behavior because they use false narratives to push their agendas and will witch hunt people who engage in content they don’t like and will result to drastic measures to make sure someone doesn’t do that. anti behavior is misusing and abusing social justice language to paint their narrative as righteous regardless of what the situation is.

someone telling you that you’re erasing a canon gay character (you want all the interviews, podcasts, and gifs of them calling shiro “a gay man” and that his lack of reaction to women was supposed to be a hint at his sexuality? i can give you all of them but most of y’all a”ct like you can’t fuckin’ read any of the interviews since sdcc came out) and that it makes them uncomfortable? not an anti, but y’all are are acting like you’re being oppressed for people being upset about shipping a gay man with women. stop acting like the homophobia you’re engaging in is just some small, quirky thing you can ignore and that it’s okay to use because your interests need it to make it happen.

[zalrb]

K. Let’s do this.

In the past few hours there have been a few asks in my inbox regarding Bonnie’s treatment on the show and became about misogyny vs. racism and instead of answering everything in individual asks I’m going just going to answer everything in one post.

I think the problem with TVD is that the misogyny was so horrific that it was 'easy' for people to focus there and act as if racism was not an issue when it was. But the one shouldn't excuse the other or used as a blanket over the other to push it under the rug. This happens in general many times in the media but in TVD both misogyny and racism were taken to extremes so Bonnie had both but Elena and Caroline had the one out of two so people focused there. It was a mess.            

First of all, misogyny and racism can’t “be taken to an extreme” there is no such thing as non-extreme racism and misogyny. Second of all, while this anon acknowledges that Bonnie experiences both racism and misogyny because she is a black female character and therefore intersectionality exists, which seems to be something people don’t understand but it’s why misogynoir is a term:

noun

the specific hatred, dislike, distrust, and prejudice directed toward black women (often used attributively): misogynoir attitudes and comments; The media’s erasure of the contributions of black women to the project was called out as an instance of misogynoir.

The argument here is that the misogyny towards white women was so horrific that people could only focus on that and act as if the racism didn’t exist. There just seems to be this resistance to call out the fact that people would rather focus on white female victimhood because even if people don’t call out the racism, Bonnie isn’t even included in the conversation surrounding misogyny, it’s only about Elena and Caroline and that isn’t a coincidence. It’s not like Bonnie’s treatment is subtle

and to compare, when Caroline is tortured

she gets the calvary after her

whereas Bonnie has to rally right away or is left alone or ends up comforting other people

but the fandom doesn’t consider the show’s consistent torture of Bonnie an issue because they don’t consider Bonnie to be a character worthy of critical thinking

That is the issue.

The misogyny in TVD was horrible though. Caroline and her rapist and they used as an incubator without concent. Elena ended up a portable trope in a coffin either she was there or not was the same. Let us not start on Bonnie. But the racism was EVERYWHERE. Trevino was an actor of color but made him the white guy. The Salvatores were Italians and that was erased. We all saw how Bonnie was treated and the ratio of PoC vs Whites plus how PoC were treated and how they died and their survival rate.            

OK first of all, the Salvatores not being Italian has no and I mean no place in this conversation, that is not an example of racism.

Second of all, who said that the misogyny on the show wasn’t horrible? I never said that it wasn’t but the fact that people feel the need to come into my inbox to redirect the conversation to white female victimhood is problematic because we’re talking about Bonnie who as a black female character suffers from misogyny and anti-blackness and therefore experiences a different level of marginalization on the show than Caroline and Elena.

How many times have I brought up how fucked up it is and problematic it is and misogynistic it is that Caroline is forced to befriend her rapist and had a pregnancy plot line that bypassed her agency and consent? How many times have I brought up how fucked up it is and problematic it is and misogynistic it is that Elena is used as a trope for Damon and that the sirebond is insidious? The point is next to the fact that TVD had a long history of brutalizing Black bodies in a way that is inherently more violent than how they kill anyone else

compared to the quick and effectively painless deaths of the others (and yes there is a black man amongst them but the fact remains the show chose a black man to die slowly while Penny and Matt bantered)

and that they reiterate stereotypes and tropes like a mute Beau who used to sing for white patrons before he was mute,

the aggressive dark-skinned black girls who the show always has Bonnie face off with 

the show also consistently and with glee emotionally and physically terrorizes Bonnie while unabashedly speak about how her worth and her role on the show is to labour for her white friends or to be the hope for her white friends or to suffer.

DRIES:  We’re going to see Bonnie continue to try to adjust to life in the prison world.  She tried to have Christmas, and it just made things worse for her.  She’s going to have a birthday in the prison world, which is going to be worse.  She’s really going to hit rock bottom before she pulls herself up by the bootstraps and says, “You know what? Let me get out of here!”  She will finally find her way back, and it will come at the perfect time for our friends, who are in need of a friend rejuvenation and beautiful reunion.  So, she comes back and is emotionally scarred from it.

“"Bonnie will continue to be a loyal friend to Damon and a very supportive person for him to lean on as he goes through the drama of the second half of the season,“ she explained. “But their relationship will also face its own obstacles down the road. Bonnie and Stefan are grounding forces in Damon’s life. So for him to put his relationship with Bonnie at stake would have really, really bad consequences for Damon, for sure.”

4. …. and Bonnie is their chaperone. “She’s been empowered by her best friend Elena to kind of follow her… to become this stronger woman that she’s become, but also take on the role of being Damon’s moral compass,” Dries says. “With Elena sidelined, Bonnie’s worried: ‘Is Damon going to go off his rocker? Do I need to keep an eye on him?’ Then there’s Damon, who’s obviously grieving the loss of the love of his life, and the big question is, ‘Is he going to become the monster that we saw in Season 1, the real villain of the show?’”

Like Damon, Bonnie is now doing what she wants. “And so, she’ll kind of get involved in Alaric’s storyline a little bit,” Dries says. “But as she’s working with Alaric and helping him through the grief of losing Jo, Bonnie starts to get herself embroiled in a little bit of a love story. And so, that’s been very fun to watch unfold.”

That is the issue. That is what we are talking about.

My issue was the lost potential. Even offensive storylines could've turned up very interesting as storytelling if the writers were not such racists and misogynists. Bonnie was a goldmine. She could have very interesting romances, plots, empowerment, dynamics, reactions. Caroline as a rape survivor, even the body autonomy issue with the babies. Elena and the triangle if done right/realistically could have worked out much better. Vampires should have been more twisted. Wasted potential everywhere.

I don’t even know if this even requires a breakdown because, yes, there was potential in storylines. Bonnie had a lot of potential in the storylines she was given, Bonnie could’ve been a lead with the storylines she was given and with Kat’s acting. The Bennett coven would’ve been a logical storyline considering that all of the magic in TVD basically stems from their bloodline but instead what we get is the Gemini coven and Jo who worked with Grams, anything to avoid centering black characters. And yes, Elena with the triangle could’ve been better I’ve said that many times and I’ve said the same thing about Caroline and the baby plot line but of course, they sitll had more personal storylines than Bonnie did. For instance, in season 1, Caroline is affected by the supernatural via Damon but her emotional and personal storyline is about working through her insecurity and finding safe spaces. Elena is affected by the supernatural but she’s trying to rebuild after her parents’ death, that is her personal journey. Bonnie is learning how to be a witch. That’s it. She does not have a personal journey entwined with her supernatural one. Witchcraft.    

What if Bonnie had been white? How about what if Caroline was black and given the same plots (with Damon, Stefan, Alaric). Something tells me that somehow and I do not even know how she would have been in a thousand ways worse and more offensive positions than the one she was now. I can't even comprehend it. Although if Caroline was black she wouldn't be getting as many love interests as she had now that she was white right? So maybe those plots wouldn't be an issue.              

I find this question moot because Bonnie wasn’t white and Caroline wasn’t black, the whole point is that their roles would not have been written the way they were if things were different. Things were not different so why are what-iffing, what is the point of that?

All in all, it really boils down to the fact that as a black female character Bonnie’s character went through a particular problematic treatment that is a result of the conflation between misogyny and anti-blackness and the fact that people are unwilling to see that or see that but try to mystify it or the redirect the issue is a problem that isn’t the entire fault of the writers.