#actually come to think of it this is very relevant to hazbin

[velvet-games]

I think I've said a couple times that seeing too much radiosilence angst made me want a fluffier qpr version, but tbh I still want all of the angst; it just needs to be framed as eventually leading to a happy ending.

alastor and vox hating each other is thematically inevitable. I am in love with the fake enemies trope; I tried playing around with that, but there is no universe where these characters are remotely close to canon and actually like each other lmao. I think it needs to be more "vox pretends he only hates alastor and alastor pretends he doesn't care about vox but they actually both understand that they really had something and destroyed it because of mutual differences." like, symbolically, it's old vs. new, right? and alastor is good because he values what worked in the past and cares about artistic integrity but bad because he refuses to see progress or accept change; vox is good because he's innovative and ambitious but bad because he's tacky and too profit-driven. that dynamic has way too much potential for us to skip the part where they grow to see the good side of each other's perspectives while keeping their own identities intact.

AUGH the angst would just be too good; vox and alastor kind of being on the same wavelength at first when they weren't too far apart era-wise, alastor not really taking his ambitions seriously and finding them entertaining, vox actually caring at first about making TV as a legitimate creative endeavor and them connecting over a love for entertainment ... but eventually vox gains power, he starts getting distracted by money and takes shortcuts, he stops creating almost completely because it's easier to make contracted souls do it instead. alastor's cute plaything (that maybe was actually interesting to talk to and had good ideas ...) becomes this tacky capitalist that he can't manipulate as easily, so he gets bored of him. vox is so happy when he finally becomes an overlord; alastor is gonna be so proud! only for him to realize that alastor never saw him that way. alastor never actually liked him, did he?

cue them getting mad at each other and starting a feud that is much more comical on the outside than it is privately. vox is still a little confused and very much in pain ... he knows his own flaws but his greed has too much of a hold on him to make him actually change for alastor (vox: I'll do anything! just tell me what to do, what to change, and I will. please just stay. alastor: would you give up your company? power? money? would you stay with *me*? vox: ...). alastor is disappointed and tries to make it seem like he really had no affection for vox, but those memories of drinking together on sunday nights, listening to how excited vox was about a new invention ... maybe, in the very back of his mind, he realizes he misses that. that he feels left behind.

[fanofstuff01]

Okay this post was originally supposed to be longer and going into more depths of the subject but I decided to separate it in parts. Because I cannot write that long of an essay in one day lmao

But anyway here's part one

Wohoo

Why Adam from Hazbin Hotel Not Coming Back In Future Seasons Doesn't Make Sense (To Me)

Part One: Logical Problems

Now this section, even though it is still my favorite in the parts, can be fixed easily if Vivienne just gives a logical answer to all of it. But it is just my perspective and what I saw from this show.

Let's get started yippie

-

A: Him not coming back contradicts the show in my opinion.

-You see, when Sir Pentious died to Adam's holy light, all the other characters react like they think he's one hundred percent gone. And it was previously stated by Vivziepop that sinners cannot die unless it's from an angelic weapon, otherwise they just respawn somewhere else in Pride hence why the exterminations exist.

So this implies that Sir Pentious died permanently here, from an angelic attack and then became a winner, in other words respawned in Heaven.

Then.. Why can’t Adam, someone who we know (for now) that died to a weapon designed to kill souls permanently, come back exactly Vivzie? This doesn't make any cucking sense for me. Why are you showing us that a soul can rise after being perma killed, but then treat as if the other Alex Brightman died permanently and now there's no way for him to come back?

-"But maybe they didn't know that Sir Pentious could come back, they just learnt that angels could be harmed. (Yes someone literally said this)"

Oh you mean these characters, who include the Princess of Hell and a literal ex exorcist, don't know about one of the core reasons why exterminations are held in the first place?

Suure.

-"You wouldn't be sad and attack the person who did it if someone killed your friend even though you knew they'd be back? Their reactions don't essentially translate to them not knowing about the permanent death thing."

I would and I can definitely understand them still being incredibly devastated and going feral about his death even though it’s temporary, but then why does the show treat Pentious' death like something these characters think is permanent? Why does Charlie refer to his death as “Ultimate sacrifice”? Hell, this entirely contradicts the sense of finality and sorrow his sacrifice had. 

And to add to both questions, why would Adam come to the exterminations with a weapon that doesn’t kill sinners permanently? Specifically one where he knows that there’ll be folks that will try to fight them and folks he would be more than pleased to wipe out permanently? 

-I know I sidetracked to talking about Sir Pentious more than Adam here, but since he is the only soul we know that changed the place he was in afterlife he is the most relevant character when it comes to this discussion about Adam in my opinion.-

-”We don’t know if angel souls are equal to sinner souls when it comes to this. Maybe the angels simply cannot be killed unless it is permanent, and the show actually hints at this given everyone thought that the angels were invincible.”

This is the only argument I can get behind actually. But it is not because it’s a valid one for the right reasons, it is the only one that makes sense to me because the writers were lazy on this too. 

Then what happens when an angel is harmed with a non-angelic weapon? -Also maybe off topic but what makes something an angelic weapon? We see Cherri Bomb throw bombs at them or okay maybe angelic bombs are a thing, but Charlie shoot-kills the exorcists with the fireworks that come out of her fingers?- Do they just.. Respawn? Or it just doesn’t hurt them? Then wouldn’t a character as smart as Vaggie would’ve figured out that they can very well be killed permanently if they are able to get hurt? 

Not answered. And it’s not helped by how the show openly portrays winners, which may I remind you Adam is one no matter how powerful he is, as the complete opposite of sinners, which would take you to assuming the angelic steel works like it does on sinners for demons. It just doesn't make sense to me.

And it wouldn’t make sense in the next section either.

B: Him not coming back doesn’t make sense in the story or the worldbuilding in my opinion

Just a little disclaimer, I’m not all means a professional media critic and do not say what I say here comes from that distinction. It's just me sharing myself lol.

Also I may use the terms incorrectly due to my broken English skills.

-Okay. So what is Hazbin about? Demons getting redeemed and therefore getting into Heaven for becoming better people, right? Also showing us that everyone can change and they shouldn't be seen as who they are at the moment and they all deserve a second chance.

At least that's what I get from the show. Now..

Why isn't the previously good now bad, being punished at the same level the previously bad now good is being rewarded? Why are you saying that becoming bad would give you an easy escape through death, while becoming good can get you to somewhere better?

Being on Hell is a PERFECT way to punish corrupted holy souls. Because you often become corrupted in the way of arrogance in Heaven, and now you're humored by the universe and by the people you used to mock and see yourself above as but this world's ways don't allow that.. Okay?

Speaking of, this also frustrates me on the world's mechanics and how they work. Sure, it can be that way, but.. Sorry if thinking about a "Divine Judgement" that makes you rise for being good but doesn't make you fall for being bad doesn't make sense in my book..

I can't express my point in this one quite well like I did with the other one but it just melts my brain dude. Like on one hand, on the positive hand, you're saying that if you're on the bad side you can change for the better and that's what matters, but you can't change from good to bad and have the same levels just negative and simply.. Die??

I just.. Can't. Sorry if this part is messier.

-

So this is it.

Will be multiple parts stay tuned ig

@things-arent-what-they-seem66 @beef-brisket

yea im delulu sue me

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Hazbins bad character design

I feel like there is a definitive lack of varitey when it comes to the designs in HH as well as a problem of characters' designs not fitting them or what the show wants us to assume about them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again (like lots of other ppl already) but the designs in HH specifically mostly don't work. They're fine if you look at them disconnected from the show. Maybe as just random characters who don't really have to carry a show visually. But they don't work if you actually put them into context and into the background of Hazbin Hotel.

Obviously this stuff is very objective and if you do like the designs thats fine (which I shouldn't even have to say). Also I didn't study art or character design and I don't think you have to to be good at it/be able to form opinions on it and this is mostly just me compiling what I don't like while using some basic knowledge on how shapes, colours etc work.

(rant under the cut)

One problem I really have is, that as soon as you have a design there are immediate assumptions about the character. In the sense that if person A is very muscular and fights against person B, who is maybe slimmer or less buff, you would probably immediately assume that person A wins, atleast in physical combat. Whereas person B would probably be the assumed winner in a stretching or flexibility competition. Often characters are designed with these assumptions in mind. Muscle, height, weight, age, clothes etc. give way into assuming stuff about people, their condition, lifestyle or personality.

The expectations that are set up by the design choices are usually either picked to genuinely represent something about a character or to be subverted and shock/confuse the audience.

Like how a lot of fighting types in Pokémon will either be more muscular or have other details relating to certain fighting styles/sports and the fairy types are usually pinkish, fluffy and cutesy. Because these elements are something typically associated with these types and when we look at them we can pretty easily tell which type they're supposed to be.

Otherwise, Monster girl from Invincible is drawn as a twelve year old girl, so it subverts expectations when she turns into a big green monster and generally doesn't stray away from violence, because it's something you wouldn't have assumed about her from her appearance.

In Hazbin Hotel most of the time the character designs don't necessarily fit what they're supposed to be and they also don't use the other design choices as subversion (the one that would probably count here is Nifty with looking and acting very childlike usually but then also acting violent/crazy sometimes).

The first thing would probably be that characters don't look their age mostly.

Charlie and Valeria (Vaggie, but I really don't wanna keep calling her that so she gets a new name) look fine as they're supposed to be around 20. Rosie and Carmilla also look alright for what we can assume their ages are supposed to be. But Alastor is in his 30s or 40s (what it says on the fandom wiki) and he looks around 20 as well. The same thing goes for Lucifer. He looks so young that he could also count as just Charlies brother or friend rather than her dad, because he doesn't look like he could be the dad of a 20 year old. This makes the song "Hell's Greatest Dad" a bit awkward because these men are singing/competing about who is better as Charlies father but they don't look a day older than her. Husk also looks way too young for someone in his 60s-70s (again from the wiki).

The body types being all the same also doesn't help.

Mimzy and Adam are pretty much the only more relevant characters who aren't like all the others in terms of body shape. All the other relevant women in the show have a tiny waist and either big boobs/big hips or just a slimmer build in general. All the men have thin waists and then broader shoulders.

And for some characters it makes sense. Like Angel is really flexible and his more lanky body fits with being a spider. But why are Lucifer and Valentino like that? Other than the fact that Viv doesn't like drawing muscles there is really no reason for them too being build like every other skinny man there. Valentino is supposed to be intimidating not just by how he acts but physically too. He seemingly has a bit more muscle than others but his arms are still super thin and look like they could snap if I look at them wrong. I'm not trying to say that abusers all have to be buff, but simply from a design perspective the scenes with him would be a lot more effective if we saw him actually have a big physical advantage over Angel and others, even when he isn't necessarily threatening them. As soon as he comes on screen, we could see him as a much more intimidating presence, especially when all the other characters look like sticks. Or they could make it so, that he hides his muscles under his coat and when we get the reveal of him actually removing it, it's more shocking and immediately makes the situation more tense.

Lucifer could've had a more confident frame as well. He's the king of hell and the strongest being in hell, so just for the diversity I would give him some muscles too. Husk is also super skinny and for someone who only sits around and drinks alcohol all day, he should definitely have a beer belly (please I swear to god I wanna see more men with bellies, Mammon was great). Also for Valeria and Lute and pretty much all the Angels I don't get why they wouldn't be more buff either. Valeria is a fighter, she's Charlies bodyguard but she looks like all of the other women there. It's stated that Angels fight so wild because they don't know they could get hurt. And while I know that the Angels can really only get hurt by angelic weapons, having this whole reveal that they can be injured would've definitely suprised me more, if they actually looked like they couldn't be injured in the first place. But then again, Valeria looks like her arms would break as soon as a breeze hits them too hard. In some episodes her thighs look a bit more muscular, but not notably and she also doesn't fight using her legs (like Carmilla) so only her thighs being bigger sort of doesn't make sense. In general, she or Lute don't show any difference to the women who aren't physical fighters. And obviously just to have a more interesting show to look at, including different body types would do a great job at making these characters stand apart from eachother more.

While we're on the topic of diversity, another obvious thing that makes the characters redundant and borig (sometimes ugly too) is the reused colour pallette. Colour coding is probably one of the easiest things when talking about character designs and it's something atleast Helluva Boss understands.

What effect warm/cold tones have or what feelings we associate with different colours is a great way to bring stuff about characters across without being too on the nose. Obviously colour can also be used to either connect characters or to make them very distinct. Shape language also plays into that of course. In Inside Out the emotions are mostly characterized by their respective colour and by their distinct shapes.

Joy = yellow (bright colour often associated with the sun/light)

Sadness = blue (cold colour often associated with tears/rain)

Anger = red (very strong colour with aggressive association with fire or when someone turns red because of anger)

Fear = purple (light colour here, mix between red and blue as fear often falls into a more angry or sad feeling)

Disgust = green (colour of most dirt or puke or other stuff people usually see as gross)

Or in a show like Bluey, where different patterns, shapes and colours show the breed of the dog and also how characters might be related to eachother (same breed/mix of breed = usually related).

Or how colours can be used as lighting effects to create cool shots when the colour pallette changes all of a sudden. In JJBA these changes happen often when someone is in distress or unsure of themselves. Also in tense moments to make them seem more exciting and interesting.

Hazbin Hotel has very limited range when it comes to the colours of the main cast. All of them feature some form of red and that usually in combination with black or white (if they aren't just purely red like Alastor or Rosie). This makes them not stand out from eachother and creates very similar colour pallettes which get boring once you've seen them repeated over and over again. It also makes the visual connection between characters who are actually related (like Charlie and Lucifer) a lot less strong because so many characters share similarities already.

Also they just hurt to look at sometimes because the background is mostly red as well and with a lot of them being very overly detailed. People have also spoken before about the show being pretty inaccessible for colour blind/vision impared people due to these issues with the colour.

And now you might say that it's hell and therefore it makes sense for all of them and the background to be red. But firstly, I don't think that there is a definitive source which decides that hell is red and can only be shown/interpreted as red. And also there is another show, also set in hell which actually does a much better job at that and actually shows different colours in hell. Like in Helluva Boss the rings are all colour coded.

And I know, that HH plays in the pride ring fully, but imagine how cool it would've been to see sinners have colours similar to the sin(s) they committed. This could lead to them looking distinct from eachother and the background and would also lead to us being able to assume stuff about them, if we're familiar with the colour coding. In "Hell's Greatest Dad" they do a fun colour change with different light and it's really refreshing and I just wanted to see more variety like that (of course I kinda get that the colour changing isn't really part of the shows design but it was pretty cool to see in that song).

There also is the issue with characters that are supposed to be animal-like sinners not looking like the animal they apparently take inspiration from. The thing is that the animal/object parts don't necessarily have to be visible to understand a character. But in the show, how sinners look in hell is often influenced by their life on earth. Vox's head being a TV is because he was a Tv-show host when he was alive. Nifty also is supposedly a bug, which makes sense because she hates bugs and probably hated them in real life too. But that is where it would be great to actually have Nifty resemble a bug, instead she has no features of one and just looks like a regular humanoid sinner. The same thing happens with Alastor being a deer, Valeria a moth, Charlie goat-like and Angel a spider (also Mimzy is apparently based off of a chicken). Like I said, the animal inspiration isn't essential to the characters, but emphasizing these design elements could help the characters stand out instead of them all just looking like sort of human characters. Sir pentious and Husk work the best in terms of presenting their animal inspiration (though pretty much everything else about Husks design sucks ass).

And then there are complaints about the characters that are supposed to be people of colour not having any features that resemble their race. It's just a bit weird when a mostly humanoid sinner doesn't really seem to resemble how the person looked in real life. Black characters have really desaturated and sometimes just straight up grey skin in HH. Alastor is probably the most egregious in that regard, but also Emily has just light blueish gray skin and no textured hair or other black features like the nose or lips or palms. Velvette and Sera have darker skin but also no other features (except for when we see Velvette's natural hair texture in like one shot at the end of the season). I know there are other things wrong with how Voodoo is presented in HH or with Mimzy's design often being seen as a jewish caricature, but I don't wanna focus on that fully, because I feel like there are people better suited for talking about that (black people or jewish people ofc).

In general HH is a show with pretty bad designs (imo). That's actually a thing I prefer about Helluva Boss, because there the designs are mostly okay or actually sometimes pretty good. Striker is probably my favourite design in both shows (he reminds me of Dillon and that's cool).

I like Mammon, Asmodeus, Octavia and Loona as well. I would still probably change a bunch if I were to redesing the HB cast but they overall look more solid than the HH cast.

This was another post which pretty quickly became an excuse to talk about other media I enjoy. I might do that more often, because comparing elements of HH or HB to other stuff makes it kinda easier to articulate my feelings. Also just because I enjoy talking about other stuff too.

[timkontheunsure]

The clocks back theory

Something in this zanny one is plot relevance. (Probably relevant to this season's finale, Sinsmas)

It could be a couple of things, or both. 🙂

Emberlynn's amulet

It could be the Dhorks and cherubs related. But would be funnier if the people writing akuma no otto, the devil' husband, were just using a lot of religious stuff as backstory. (Like Hazbin hotel does. Hey offbrand Charlie).

If Stolas' seal is all that's to summon him, I can see merchants for a show accidentally making holly protection. 😆

Dumb fanfic

Ok, so gist is a someone who previously had a wife stands up against satan to protect their lover.

And Satan is turning up soon, probably in Sinsmas.

Blitz and IMP look to be in trouble in the trailer.

What if they get caught?

We know Andrealphus is plotting something to get all of Stolas' wealth, legions and title. And 'technically' doing this for Stella, Stolas' wife, so she'll get more in the divorce. (Actually doing it so he gets it).

Emberlynn also calls Blitz a demon prince.

Wich makes me think it's foreshadowing Stolas being the one taking a stand for his man. Not Blitz (this time).

There's been a theme this season of Stolas learning to choose, and stand up for what he wants. After failing to do so before last

Like going through with the divorce,

Makeing sure Blitz can manage his business without him,

And setting a boundary of needing space when he's hurt. Something that's really hard do with loved ones.

These are all pieces of rebuilding you have to do after abuse.

This part with the ars goeita, Andy and Vassago, Mammon and Satan all looks to be in the same place.

I'm assuming this meeting is about IMP's illegal use of the grimoire. To show Stolas is too incompetent and unfit for his job.

While Blitz now has a legal method and is under Asmodeus jurisdiction, how much will that help when Ozzie's also very publicly dating an imp?

That might make him seem to biased to help, when Blitz originally was lent the grimoire for sleeping with Stolas.

But why would Mammon be helping here?

Blitz burned down Loo loo land, while IMP were being bodyguards for Stolas. Wonder if hell has a law about being liable for any damage that contractors do?

But I can see Stolas standing up against Satan in the ars goeita council, to keep Blitz and IMP safe.

So why do I think the amulet might come back in?

A lot of people at assuming Andy is going to win this. (Couldn't be arsed to keep putting the full name anymore. And I get a laugh thinking it'd piss the pompous bugger off).

That he'll take everything from Stolas. Money, home, job, grimoire, and probably even Via. 🙁 (Don't think that'll stick as Via is a real daddy's girl).

Stolas without his grimoire would probably be vulnerable to Andy, especially if he's just been dragged by the council.

Thinking this is going to get a call back.

A lot of us have been wondering how Blitz is defending a vulnerable Stolas.

Maybe the strangle looking knife is merchant from the akuma no otto show lol?

(NB I had to do so many double check that I didn't put Santa instead of Satan in this thing. 😅 Heh dyslexic kiddies write Christmas lists to hell lol).

[theloganator101]

The Designs for the Main Cast Makes me Wanna Fucking Cry

Okay I'm going to propose a scenario that's relevant to this post. Say you're someone who has NEVER seen or heard anything related to Hazbin Hotel, then I come up to you and show you this picture of some characters from the show.

I ask if they are the main cast of the show and you reply probably. Well TOO BAD FUCK YOU ONLY TWO OF THE MAIN CAST ARE HERE! Now THIS is what the main cast is compiled of.

As someone who likes to do character designs, I take GREAT issue with how their all designed.

And I'm sure I'm not saying anything new as I'm sure everyone and their mother had brought it up, that the excessive use of red in this palette is just NOT GOOD! It makes everything blend together in a bad way and no real distinction between the characters and the background.

Speaking of the characters! Let's talk about those deisgns!

Vivziepop, I have to ask... Why does all the main characters has to have red in their design? Even to those where red is NOT their color? *CoughVaggieCough* It makes them all look the same color scheme wise and tells very little about themselves.

A personal rule I have when it comes to designing characters, one that I'm not sure if many people know, is that the main characters should have their own unique colors and combinations of them to help them stand out more AND get their character across.

The ONLY one in this main cast that DOESN'T have some form of red in their design is Angel Dust, so that makes him stand out more and would probably trick people into thinking HE'S meant to be the main character... when it's actually Charlie.

Which again doesn't help that almost every character in the show have some shade of red in their design so it doesn't help distinguish who's meant to be important or not.

Vivziepop, you have a world where people from different eras of time are all living together, why do you NOT take advantage of this fact to give everyone respective designs to make them stand out more? Why are a majority of the male characters just wearing suits and tuxedos? Hell I've seen people redesign your characters that makes them look better!

(Credit goes to the artists that made these awesome designs)

Just... USE THESE AS INSPIRATION TO MAKE YOUR CANON DESIGNS BETTER PLEASE!!

And if you guys want, I'll be more than happy to come up with my own redesigns on how I would draw the main cast.

[vivziepoparchives]

Firstly, I wanted to completely thank you for the important archiving work you're doing. With no ounce of irony I think you're doing immensely important work for the animation industry and fandom history that I'm very grateful for.

I wanted to ask if you could give any of us relatively newncomers any context on who Faust was, and what this falling out was/how it impacted viv's stories? It seemed they were a bit intertwined before whatever happened.

I don't mind answering these kind of questions, but I do want to be transparent. Since my focus has been on preserving Viv's art and work rather than learning about her personal life and relationships, this isn't my best subject. I tend to just absorb this information randomly along the way, and since I wasn't around at the time this stuff happened, I won't claim to be an expert.

I also want to make it clear that I don't actually consider it any of my business and don't feel it's my place to speculate or make assumptions about her relationships.

The best I can do is give you what random information I've come across that I feel is relevant to the fandom. So, I do advise you to take this with a grain of salt where sources aren't directly provided and I'm always open to being corrected if I'm wrong about something.

Viv and Faust were close friends in the 2010s and started RPing with Tyco and Angel in 2013 which is the year of Angel's creation. In my opinion, it's likely these RPs were very helpful and pivotal to the development of his character. It's sort of what RP is good for; getting to know your character by throwing them up against situations and characters that don't come from your own mind. So, in that sense, I do think Faust had some indirect impact on Angel Dust's development through the RPs.

I'm unsure when exactly the RPs ended, but I'm under the impression they ended a good amount of time prior to the development of the pilot.

Since Faust was Viv's friend, he wound up working on Hazbin Hotel during the pilot era. And these RPs could be found/seen by new and old fans alike, leading many to assume Tyco would be part of Hazbin Hotel. Eventually, Viv had to make a post clarifying Tyco was Faust's character and would not have anything to do with Hazbin Hotel.

The RPs were never meant to be canon as far as I can tell. My belief is they were simply good fun between good friends with no thought of permanency or impact on a larger fandom they frankly could not have seen coming.

In addition to being an illustrator for the pilot, Faust was placed in charge of the creation of the official Hazbin Hotel comics. He began to stream while working on official Hazbin material. During these streams, people would ask him questions and he would give answers that weren't always sanctioned by Viv.

From what I understand, during this time, Viv was so busy that she wasn't able to stream and provide content for her audience as much as she had before, so they latched onto these Faust streams as a source for official information. This is where a lot of pilot era fanon trends arose.

But none of this information was canon at the time. Faust may have had some insights that weren't available to the public but what had roots in that insight and what he pulled out of thin air during stream could not be determined.

In the end, all information garnered from the streams had to be denounced. So, any information from that source cannot be considered canon until it appears on screen.

In my opinion, I think Faust was working very hard and doing what he could to provide the audience with something to chew on while they were trying to get everything going for the pilot. I don't think there was any malicious intent or purposeful misinformation on his part. Just starved fans running wild with anything they could claw out of the crew.

He worked on the two official comics that were completed, but was also in the process of working on one featuring Vaggie, Charlie, and Helsa Von Eldritch. It was meant to be set in high school where Charlie and Vaggie had met for the first time. Obviously, this is no longer anywhere near canon and was never finished.

As far as the "falling out" between Viv and Faust goes - if one occurred - I'm in the dark. I don't know what happened and I don't consider it worth the research to find out. (That's time taken away from archiving the art.) But I do know that they were very civil to each other in the posts I did find about Faust leaving the project. Viv wished him luck on his next project and Faust responded professionally. Faust also gave several other reasons why he left which included moving and burnout.

While I found no posts that showcased frustration or anger at Viv*, there were posts about burnout and Faust had a hard time convincing fans of the show to stop emailing him. I've always assumed that if anything happened between Viv and Faust on a personal or professional level, it was settled privately.

The only important thing to know now is that Faust no longer works with Viv and past information derived from his streams cannot be considered canon.

*I'm not saying they don't exist, simply that I never found any. But I also never went out of my way to find these sorts of posts.

[purple-star-eyes]

QnA with Viv, Erika and Amir (Wednesday, 31st January 2024)

(1 day before the Season 1 finale)

Who would be the better dad?

>Lucifer cuz his heart is in the right place.

Alastor wanted to get under Luci's skin, which is where the Dad rivalry came from.

Alastor is canonically aro/ace.

Said in a livestream by his voiceactor Amir Talai but Viv didn't deny it.

"It didn't come up in the show yet obviously."

Amir Talai owns an "Oh deer" cup a fan made for him

Concerning Fantheories: A lot of people have gotten a lot of things right.

Viv tries to avoid it, but she's excited to see how exact people get it. Apparently quite a few have figured it out to the T.

When Viv first made the characters she changed a lot of stories around, case and point Vaggie's story changed.

Viv laughed when she saw the HB theory that Wally Wackford is a secret form of Mammon.

>clearly false, fun but not true according to Viv, debunked in real time

Viv's brother works at A24 and loves trolling fans with theories like "Charlie dies in ep.4" (false obviously)

Amir said Alastor has a tail. Viv doesnt confirm or deny it.

Viv: "The tail is not relevant."

-> Might be answered later, since he'd have to be without the coat

Erika likes that Charlie has actual realists around her keeping her grounded.

(Like Angel in ep.4)

Charlie's view is very simplistic on redemption.

The point of the show is to explore that the grey area and redemption are very complicated

(Charlie's arc)

Mimzie is a relieable narator when it comes to Alastor.

But his backstory will come up in future episodes.

There *HAS TO BE* someone that scares Alastor according to Amir.

"We haven't even scratched the surface with Alastor." According to Viv.

Why does Alastor keep Nifty around?

-> Will be explored in the next episodes.

He is very fond of her.

They can connect due to "they both dont care about anything"

How tall is Lucifer-> 5'2 (as per the definitiom of shortking) and Charlie is a foot taller than him. (The hat adds a lot)

The hat is a concious choice of Luci to make up for his height.

"He's not concerned with fashion. Just his height."

The other sins are very big, Viv loves that Luci is the tiniest one of the sins.

Charlie is 6ft

Valentino is 10ft

Angel is 8ft

Alastor is around Charlie's height

Erika's favourite V is Vox due to his voice. She might never love Valentino (he makes her mad).

Amir refused to comment who his favourite V is.

Is there more to the beef between Alastor and Vox?

-> they hate each other, Vox is jealous

Alastor enjoys Vox like a rug (Vox exists and he can walk all over him.)

Pretty simple and nice dynamic but nothing else.

Alastor thinks Vox is "inconsequencial".

Viv thinks Alastor is Chaotic Neutral.

(Tho she's not too familiar with the categories)

Amir says it's hard to say without giving anything away, regarding what his alignment is.

It was hard to record in 2021 due to having to record sessions and duets alone in the booths, according to Amir.

Erika felt a lot of pressure during the first 2 Episodes, because she knows how long people waited for it.

Brandon will help write Eps in Helluva Boss, but works a mile a minute so he will come in and go "Oh I remember this one" :)

Someone dies in Hazbin.

"You can sleep tonight if you think it's Angel Dust"

Both said by Vivzie. So she basically confirmed that Angel will (probably) NOT die.

She did say it was "going to be obvious" who it would be.

Season 2 is in production.

[spotlightlowlife]

Hell, even hazbin fortelling happened

Almost a year ago I believed the writing of HB may be leading us to some nuisance? That some of the holes and convenience that began to pop up, technically at the end of season one, had been intentional. The parent series HH was on it's way in the next few weeks, so surely it will expand on all we know, teaching us more and the two shows will complement eachother.

I admit I was wrong.

The Mammon episode was the last before Hazbin Hotel started and wow did it let us know of what was to come.

Dropping insight into the future was common in season one but died off this time around, only this episode created a standard for both series to abide by when we got Mammon as an irredeemable, all encompassing God like villain like no other, boo hiss at this guy because the characters we like are selectively morally just dispite vocation and if they are attracted royalty then the power imbalance frequently referenced doesn't exist

yet this big bad we got is almost Beetlejuice and Oogie merged together complete with their undeniable competence, this characters home and place of operation is actual hell and we are good as told that this character is the worst of the worst for being a bother to some side characters over business?

Why did I highly these points you may ask? So that we remember

where this is set?

who is a threat or at the very least in the way of the characters we follow and why?

most importantly, what do our main characters do? Why are we following them? What's their motive? What does the series description say?

This episode absolutely butcher likable meanies Fizz and Ozzie, who played out like OOC (or who even knows these days) Stolas x Blitzø in a fanfiction, with their content creating more questions than answers.

This episode featured Blitzø for no other reason but there otherwise would be no lead characters. It created the chance for him to reflect on his own obnoxious, helluva bad boss behaviour, to not only make him relevant in this episode but show us his growth in future episodes, but no, we go on to see IMP at work less than ever and fewer interactions with no real proof of a better dynamic, Blitzø has become more subdued, but this change can only be accredited to his desperation to impress/cheer up Stolas.

Hazbin starts with a storybook that places Lucifer, Lilith and Charlie at the top. We already knew they would be but what did we get.

We meet Adam in the first episode, he meets Charlie in the first episode, he's no threat to her but he's the big bad. Episodes pass and nobody has any particular power or understanding, Charlie's goal is pointless, we learn about what Lucifer thinks and allows but none of it is ever bought up (even though this could have offered solid reasoning behind the well used horrible partent subplot) he's uwu soft life like his daughter and that's all that matters.

[petra-creat0r]

Deltarune: Fool's Fate Ch. 7 Secret Boss

We finally get to the Studio Dark World! The only chapter other than Chapter 1 of Fool's Fate to be set not in Hometown!

I think I first started coming up with this guy around the fourth of July, it's just taken me a bit to draw them and flesh out their lore. Anyways, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen I present to your, your host, the one, the only, the darling deer with the charming voice, Ray D. O'Skelly!!

Ray's name should be obvious. It's a pun on radio. They're a radio host. Not a lot to explain there. Though when first coming up with their name and concept, I did look into 30s and 40s era radio hosts to try and pull inspiration from their names. Red Skelton was one I landed on since Skelton is similar to "skeleton" and I already knew I wanted this boss to have a skeletal face to resemble 30s era radios. Eventually I shorted it to Skelly to flow better with the O to go with the radio pun.

I don't really have a text quirk for Ray yet? Best I can think off is their voice sounds staticy or they get interrupted by ads/song lyrics similar to Spamton and Bitsy. I do know that they can't actually speak because of the well... whole thing that happened to their face. Their voice comes through their microphone. If anyone has any ideas let me know. Maybe a sound board situation?

Since I imagine the studio world being similar to what I think Chapter 3 will be like, being based off movies and film rather than TV, and Bitsy is already animation theory and I've got Casper to cover Woody theory, Ray is radio theory. Video killed the radio star. The theory I forgot to include in my original poll when I was first coming up with Bitsy despite being one of my favorite ideas. Aside from being based on an old-timey radio host, I also vaguely pulled some subtle inspiration from Alastor from Hazbin Hotel. Mostly just in the fact that Ray is a deer along with their color palette, radio theming, and some of their demeanor.

Backstory under the cut

Ray O'Skelly used to be the talk of the town, the bees knees, the cats pajamas! The voice heard across the globe and broadcast to nearly every station. MTTWood's very own home town darling and host of the most tuned into radio channel in all of the studio world. Ray's radio show had it all! Music, news, even radio plays performed by the deer themself! It was the age of radio and Ray was monarch, surely there was no way their popularity would falter any time soon.

At least... that's what Ray thought before the leader of the studio world signed a deal with some folk from this up and coming "Television" Dark World.

At first, the TV World didn't pose much of a threat to Ray, or at the very least it couldn't yet compete with the popularity of their radio show. But over time, the alternative form of entertainment started to gain more attention and views than Ray's show gained listeners. Especially after the appearance of a supposed Knight in the other Dark World and the merge of most of the channels into TennaVision. According to the public, Ray's show was getting old and bland. The music they played went out of style who knows how long ago, and people would prefer to watch the news and Ray's "radio plays" rather than simply listening. Ray either had to adapt, or fade away in obscurity.

That was when Ray met a man. A man offering aid, offering salvation to the deer down on their luck. The man offered to help Ray "get with the times" as they say, and rise back to fame. Help get their radio show back in the public zeitgeist and to surpass the competition. Almost without thinking, Ray took the man's offer, desperate to stay relevant through whatever means necessary.

The man made good on his deal, helping Ray by suggesting a few changes to their format here and there. New music, updated segments, notes on Ray's tone and how to better appeal to masses and be "hip with the kids", the works. Ray wasn't particularly for all the new changes, but they were desperate. Desperate for attention, desperate for fame and adoration. And fame and attention they got. It was almost as if, whoever tuned into the station would HAVE to listen. Ray's listenership was through the roof, all thanks to the man...

Perhaps it could be said that fame and power corrupts, because at some point, listeners noticed a shift in Ray's demeanor. Once the soft-spoken and well mannered host with the most, they got more prideful, vein, sadistic. Either from all the attention going to their head, or perhaps from a great Truth revealed to them about the nature of their existence breaking their mind. Whatever it was, it twisted the once charming radio host. Twisted them into an arrogant yet still devilishly charismatic individual with an ever captive audience.

Eventually, Ray's pride got the better of them. Even after the man left, Ray still maintained their popularity and fame, yet their ego wouldn't settle for just that. Ray had a captive audience at their disposal who would have to listen to anything they said. Any idea they suggested could be implanted in as little as a whisper and the right frequency. Ray could control this town. Could bend it to their every whim and will. Which is just what they tried to do. Before their operation got shut down of course.

Turns out, an old acquaintance had played stool pigeon and cried wolf to the authorities. Even if Ray tried to charm the guards, it was no use. Their studio was taken from them and shut down and they were cast out onto the rainy street. Yet even stripped of everything, Ray wouldn't let anything stop them from reaching the top. In a makeshift studio down in the darkest corners of MTTWood, Ray continued to broadcast their signal to who ever would listen.

That is until the children of a star and their friends found themselves in the studio world...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hehehe. It might've taken me a bit to come up with but this was fun. When I designed Ray, I knew they were a little charmer, but I also wanted to have them be twisted. I imagine after the studio Dark World is sealed and Ray ends up staying at the Blook house with Spamton and Poly, they act like the sweetest little darling. Only to still be manipulating people through subliminal messaging in their radio broadcasts. I'll have to play that out some time.

Anyways, only 3 left to go! And one of those I already have so it's really just designing the secret boss for the Town Hall world and then the Festival world. The later of which I already have a vague idea for.

[death-limes]

Say, which characters in HB and HH do you hate the most character wise and then design wise

OHHH MAN i could write an entire video essay about this topic lmao, let me try to be as brief as possible

~~~

Hazbin - Worst Character: This one's hard, there are a few characters who probably suck but I just don't know that much about them. But based on what I know now, honestly…? Charlie. Coinsidering that… I think Faustisse?… confirmed that she's over 200 years old, the sheer level of naivete on her part is just annoying and unbelievable. She's over twice as old as Alastor, she should not be swayed so easily by him. As far as I'm aware she's not in a Disney Princess situation where she was shut inside the castle walls her entire life (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on that though) so there's no reason why she shouldn't be at least a little savvy to the ways of sinner demons. She should also have been able to see the VERY OBVIOUS SIGNS that Vaggie used to be an exorcist. Even Carmilla comments that it's super fuckin obvious; the Princess of Hell herself should be knowledgeable enough to pick up on hints that even the fandom picked up on when it was just the pilot. Overall, Charlie just comes across as kinda stupid imo. I don't find myself rooting for her at all.

Hazbin - Worst Design: Alastor. I know he may not necessarily look the worst, and I do in fact simp for him, but his design does absolutely NOTHING that a character design is supposed to do. Namely, it doesn't tell us anything about him & it doesn't help him stand out from the cast. Nothing about his design is uniquely 1930s (nobody wore their hair like that, pinstripe suits started in the 1800s and continue to be popular today, monocles were more of an 1800s thing and were considered old-fashioned by the 30s) or deer-esque (his ears really do not look like dear ears at all, and his "antlers" are just microscopic salad forks that don't even show up on his silhouette). The whole Voodoo thing, aside from being super disrespectful to a literal religion that is still actively practiced, is also so inconsequential to his character that it can be removed entirely and change NOTHING about him. Any of his traits that are in line with the Voodoo thing can still exist without it -- him being a trickster and a dealmaker, mostly. All the blacklight stuff doesn't match his aesthetic at all: in Princess and the Frog where everything was 1920s it gave a magic effect, but in Hazbin where all different time periods comingle it just gives a raver effect, which doesn't fit his anti-modern preferences at all. Also the living-shadow thing is yet another direct ripoff from Dr. Facilier (that might just be in the pilot though I'm not sure), I think the living microphone is a better route to take if you want him to have a spiritual companion type of thing; it's more relevant to his theming and more original. And of course none of this even touches on the "he's half-black" bullshit excuse that only came after V*v received backlash about the Voodoo thing. And it doesn't even solve the issue anyway. A mixed-race man from the 1930s would make for a very interesting character IF that unique experience/identity was actually integrated into his character in any noticeable way, but it's not. It was just slapped on at the last minute. Ugh. I could write an entire essay about Alastor alone tbh.

Helluva - Worst Character: Fizzarolli, but mostly when he was first introduced. Aesthetically he's the closest thing that I have to a "blorbo" in this show, but in the Ozzie's episode he just gave me the most rancid vibes ever. Definitely a "asexuality doesn't exist, you just haven't been with ME yet~" type of person. Admittedly that's more of a personal preference thing and less of a poor characterization; they're in the Lust ring, that type of attitude is kind of expected. What IS poor characterization, however, is his "development" later on when he and Ozzie basically get their own arc. His entire personality changes to be much softer and like…. idk, very obviously a trauma VICTIM and not so much of a potential trauma CAUSER? His character is not nearly as abrasive, but there's no corresponding event that would cause such a change. It just seems like now that he's supposed to be a sympathetic character, they changed his personality to be more appealing. He's not nearly as mean and rude as he used to be. Ozzie has a similar thing going on but it's not quiiiiite as severe, and he's saved from being the Worst by having a far more interesting and unique design. (If you had asked who I think has the BEST design in Helluva, I'd probably say Ozzie.)

Helluva - Worst Design: Beelzebub, no contest. A lot of people seemed to have a problem with her being bee-themed instead of fly-themed like the real Beelzebub in demonology, but that honestly doesn't bother me; I'm not expecting any Hellaverse stuff to be super accurate to The Real Lore so any tiny reference they can slip in (like with Ozzie's design) is just gravy. To me, bee and fly are close enough, I think it counts as a reference. Plus, the bee theme goes well with Gluttony ("nectar" is a common synonym for delicious food) and calling her Queen Bee is an easy way to make her name more appealing/sexy than, yknow. "Beelzebub." What DOES bother me is her canine aspect. Why is she a sparkledog? What is the logic behind that? Why isn't she huge-by-default like Ozzie and Mammon? (You'd think GLUTTONY of all sins would be a big character!) It really just feels like V*v wanted Ke$ha to have a cameo role as a major character and just arbitrarily picked one of the sins for her to be. So the character design has Ke$ha in mind faaaaar more than it has Beelzebub in mind. ***(Funny thing about Queen Bee: for a solid week after her episode came out, I was actually fooled by this page from an RP wiki: [https://hazbin-hotel-and-helluva-boss-rp.fandom.com/wiki/Beelzebub] The explanation that I'd gleaned for this version of her is that the picture shown is the REAL Beelzebub, and the one we see in the show is her daughter by the lord of Hellhounds, Cerberus, which explains her canine features. Queen Bee Jr. is the heiress to her mom's title in the same way Charlie is the heiress to Lucifer's title. The picture shown on that page is just SUCH a better design, and it looks like the show's style, and she seems to be a giant like Ozzie and Mammon…. can you blame me for being like "OH that makes sense!!" Cut to me a week later finding out this is just a fan RP wiki. Siiiigh.)

[deeply-unserious-fellow]

Okay, it might be kind of late to say this, but it's been driving me crazy for months now and I just need to get it out: THE FANON THAT VOX HAS AN ALASTOR BODY PILLOW DID NOT COME FROM THE INSTAGRAMS!!!!!!!!!!!

I kept seeing people saying that it did a couple months ago, and Idk if they still are, but those people were either lying or misinformed, because I've been in the Hazbin fandom since the Instagram's STARTED, and the Vees literally never brought up Alastor in any of their posts. Not once. You can check them yourself, the Hazbin Instagram Archive is literally RIGHT THERE- they never talked about him, let alone implied Vox had a body pillow of him. As far as I can tell, it didn't come from one of the old live streams, and it wasn't even a popular headcannon around the time the Instas were a happening!!! Radiostatic was a ship, yes, but the hopelessly one-sided version of it didn't become popular until the show came out. Actually normal Radiostatic wasn't that popular either come to think of it... I looked through the Alastor/Vox tag on AO3, and only about 182 of the 1,569 fics in the tag were posted before the actual show came out, most of which had them mutually attracted to eachother. Anyways my point is that the Alastor body-pillow thing is actually a very recent bit of fanon with no roots in anything that even USED to be canon. It's a valid headcannon, nothing like. Outwardly opposes it. It was just never actually a thing.

Sorry if this is no longer relevant, I just now got the motivation to actually do all the proper research on it lmao

[tollingreminiscentbells]

Hi there! I just finished devouring your accu au and just. Wow. I had to say something, because I haven't enjoyed a fic like that in a while. I'm very, very, VERY picky with my smut - especially when it comes to alastor, ESPECIALLY when he is actively being tagged as ace - and I am pleased to say that the emotional and physical intimacies of your writing truly astounded me. Not only did I, as an ace, feel comfortable with the scenes, but I enjoyed them and the way Alastor interacted with them. His "delusional" not-sex moments were my absolute favourite, and I found myself smiling when he would defend his view of sex. Obviously everyone is different, but for me personally, I feel like you are one of very few writers who actually got the asexual-but-not-sex-repulsed bit perfect. I truly related to some moments and the relationship between Al and Lucifer was so understanding that it made everything feel fluid and real. To me, smut is something that I find boring half the time - the times I do enjoy it are always when there's some juicy character growth mixed in, and your writing has that in spades. I applaud your skills. Accu made me so happy to read; it was an absolute delight. When I saw on your tumblr here that you're working on another fic, I thought I might be in heaven. I am so terribly excited to see what you've been working on, especially with all the history and research you've mentioned putting in to this new fic.

I also read your Alastor selfcest fic, and as someone who is quite easily swayed by selfcest, I must say that I enjoyed that one, too. I would love to hear what other fantastic Alastor ideas are in that intelligent, magnificent brain of yours.

In the interest of forcing this to become the norm instead of hiding behind my anxiety, I am extending a formal invitation to chat about hazbin or whatever else if you so desire. I would love to talk about ships and fics and be friends. Of course, no hard feelings if not!

I wish you all the best and hope this long-ass comment finds you well. May you continue to write what pleases you. Thank you for your time.

Love and Support, Loliqua

Oh, thank you so much for this message! It's delightful and made my day! I've said before that I consider A Terrible Beauty, specifically, some of the best writing I've done in probably the last 5 years, and that whole AU is very special to me. It makes me happy beyond words, really, when other people love those fics like I do.

It's funny. When I started writing for this fandom I didn't talk about my own asexuality. I actually didn't consider it relevant information at the time. I've talked about all of this since then, but I write Alastor's relationship with sex in a way that is similar to my own. I write sex scenes for the character development and these particular sex scenes are a reflection of real lived experience. Genuine ace rep, you could say. I think that's what resonates with some readers and I'm just so glad that it landed with you!

When people talk to me about All changed, the two things most frequently mentioned are "I love him violently", and the delusional not-sex. And you know, if that is my legacy in this fandom, I will feel like I did my part and made a worthwhile contribution.

And I am indeed working on another fic! A Momentary Radiance, wherein Alastor sells his soul to Lucifer while still alive, kills a few people, and romance ensues. A lot of references and homages, as well as the historical fiction aspect, which you'll see most clearly in the content of Alastor's radio show. I took a more traditional approach with this fic, so I've been working on it quietly since early July. Despite my major international move not long ago, we are finally almost across the finish line.

Then there are . . . several other fic ideas that I'm trying to ignore for now. It's getting out of hand. And if you want to hear about the madness, I am always more than happy to make friends!

💜

[gabrielsbubblegumbitch]

you might not be 110% the person to ask since your jam seems to be the vees, but I am a major enjoyer of most of your takes and your writing hugely inspires me to actually practice putting the words in my brain out of my brain.

anyway, rambling, sorry. do you think people that are biologically related *always* look like each other in hell? Like, if their form in hell is created from the life they led, how they died, and interests basically, a person can be insanely different from their relatives in all of that. Does biology,,, matter? I've read a lot of fic centered around a character having a child while alive and they're always the same type of demon as their parent, even if they weren't close to their parent and have fairly different personalities (or at least don't exhibit any of the traits that make sense to that demon form), and the form doesn't really suit them beyond making it clearly visually obvious that they're Val's/Husk's/whoever's child. Like, I understand how genetics would work for hellborn, but sinners change form after their death based on other things completely so I don't know if genetics would be relevant??

again, idk if genetics are your thing at all so feel free to ignore me if this ask sucks, lol. I just really love how realistic and logical you are with Hazbin so I was wondering if you had thoughts?

Are genetics my thing? Well, friend, before I picked up psychology, I actually studied bioengineering sksksks. When it comes to genetics and demon forms... First of ll, with all the love I have for the Hellaverse, I think its worldbuilding is very vague and a little inconsistent and some rules do not translate into designe. But besides that, I do not think that genetics play a role; it wouldn't make sense. I can imagine children being similar to their parents if they were raised by them because the early years of life heavily influence a human's soul. But, for example, I don't believe that any of Valentino's illegitimate children (alleged, obviously) would look anything like him.

[countlessrealities]

Questions Often Left Unanswered: Mun Edition || Accepting !

@angelichooves asked:

What’s your biggest pet peeve when it comes to RPing?

What’s your biggest pet peeve when it comes to the fandom you RP in?

11. What’s your biggest pet peeve when it comes to RPing?

This is going to make me sound like a picky jerk, but there are a lot of behaviours in the rpc that piss me off these days. It's kinda hard to choose one, and I could write a novel about it, but...well, I'm tired and I can't English that much, so I'll pick one thing. Namely how self-centred and uncaring the RPC has become.

Ofc, we're here all here to have fun and handle our blogs. Get interactions for them, share our ideas, have fun for ourselves, and so on. However, at times I feel like this has become an extreme focus to some RPers, to the point that they forget that RP is supposed to be a two-way street, and not just something you get amusement from. It's not just about you, it's about your RP partners too.

More often than not I see people disregarding the most basic etiquette, as liking HCs posts or sending in OOC memes just to reblog the same fucking meme 30 seconds later. And don't get me started on people, on one hand, forcing their HCs on others or, on the other, completely disregarding their partners' HCs / canon divergence /etc.

I honestly find this behaviour incredibly disheartening. It kills my motivation to reach out to people, to be curious about their ideas and muse, and in general to show interest, when I know that they won't give a damn about my ideas. Not even to make sure we can mesh them together so that they work for us both. I can't find the will to engage with them because I'm too old for that shit, plain and simple.

Aaand, I'm stopping here, because I've already said too much. Just, seriously? Have a look outside your lawn from time to time, folks. It's not that hard.

12. What’s your biggest pet peeve when it comes to the fandom you RP in?

Since it wasn't specified, I'm assuming that this ask was implicitly about Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss.

Well, very unpopular opinion, it really gets on my nerves how most of the fandom states, first and foremost, how they are against the creator. It seems to have become a must in the fandom and it makes me extremely uncomfortable? I'll admit that I don't know all the details of why people seem to have Viv so much, but from what I gathered is all about fictional stuff?? Which confuses the shit out of me because...it's not real.

Yeah, I'm one of the people who doesn't think that fiction equals / influences reality. It's stated in my rules, I don't tolerate people bullying other over fictional stuff. If you're following me, you should know that. Not to mention that I've been clearly open about this, several times, so...

I like her stuff, just as I respect that some people don't. It's all the hate that's thrown out without a proper, actually relevant reason that I don't get. I mean, sure, you do you, and if that's what makes you comfortable, I won't argue with that. But it means that you must respect that I don't agree with it in return.

[paragonrobits]

at least i can name gay reps in sp without wincing in disappointment, but hazbin hotel? oh the gays in HH are just a mess😭

Prefacing my response to this with an important note that I'm not being facetious, putting on a bit, dismissing a series out of hand because I personally dislike it (as a lot of my shock at SP BEING on the poll at all is that everything about it does NOT lend itself to being at all sincere about showing gay relationships) and in general I'm establishing that I'm being sincere about this:

South Park has gay representation?? Seriously??? South Park?

The reason I am so genuinely bewildered at this is that South Park is representative of a particular brand of comedy that remains popular (though often in circles that have come to be right-wing adjacent, even if they were originally somewhat left-leaning by the standards of their times) but was WAY more indicative of the general attitude of the time, and that's comedy that's funny specifically because its shocking, inappropriate, insulting and mean. It's the sort of comedy that now you may find most often in Netflix comedians who mainly have two jokes: making jokes insulting trans and disabled people, and complaining that they think they can't make jokes about trans and disabled people.

This isn't a coincidence by any means; South Park's humor to this day pretty much runs on the writers having a very smug, biting attitude that is fairly resentful and just plain mean even at the best of times, and its something its always been without changing, and desperately trying to be relevant without actually adapting to the times.

The reason I bring this up is that South Park has always been the kind of show to, if it brings up gay relationships, is almost invariably NOT going to treat it with any kind of sensitivity, grace, decency or otherwise being representation you'd WANT; they're going to be horrifically mean-spirited about it.

I do remember South Park having gay characters back in the day, and that character was Mister Garrison, who is an example of 'oh god why would you want him as representation". Lifting from the Wikipedia page indicates WHY:

"n the episode, Mr. Garrison tries to get fired from his new job as the fourth grade teacher at South Park Elementary by being overtly and explicitly homosexual in front of the students, so he can sue the school and get twenty-five million dollars in damages. However, he is unable to as the rest of the faculty and the children's parents are desperate to appear tolerant of his homosexuality. The boys do not share their sentiments, and as punishment for not tolerating Garrison's outrageous behavior, they are sent to a Nazi-esque "tolerance camp." All of the scenes inside the camp are shown in black-and-white, a homage to Schindler's List."

...I really hope I don't have to explain HOW MANY ways that's horrifyingly inappropriate. So if the series HAS changed since then, you're welcome to explain it, but I'd be deeply surprised if it was appropriate in the slightest.

That said, I probably ought to make some kind of point that I do not think that representation, in the sense of having rep that is strictly admirable or wholesome, is not necessarily a good thing, since that almost always leads into either a strict binary of annoyingly bland and wholesome characters too boring to care about or being exclusively villainous or horrible and leading to the implication that those kind of people are inherently Bad. What makes a character admirable or fun is different from each person to the other; as a general rule representation is a difficult thing for me to desire, but my takes on good autistic representation (in the sense of characters taking on an extra sense of dimension for me due to me being able to find compelling similarities to myself, rather than living vicariously through them) might be Laios from Dungeon Meshi, quite a few robots in fiction but especially Data from Star Trek Enterprise, L from Death Note (even if I refuse to watch it or read it, I had a lot of interest in L specifically back in the day for that reason), and a large number of the Gems in Steven Universe.

One may not that a lot of the characters, even most of those, are NOT on the autistic spectrum, which is what I would generally lean towards. This is true, but they can READ as such, and that kind of ability to find a reflection, even if its not textual, is often better than you might expect. (Also, most autistic characters are either super-powered living computers or heartless jerks who immediately become evil based on logical argument; taking any kind of heroic or benign personality that isn't a helpless child-like figure means I have to take what I can get.)

Anywhere there's something to say in the distinction between EXPLICIT representation and applicability with the latter often feeling, IDK, more genuine, but that's probably an individual response!

[fanby-fckry]

🥪 On a scale from ‘burns water’ to '5 course menu’ how well can your OC cook?

🤝 Does your OC have someone they want at their side when they are scared? Who?

Dual!!!

Yet Another OC Ask Game

Thanks for the ask! :3

I actually already answered 🥪 for Dual, here.

🤝 Does your OC have someone they want at their side when they are scared? Who?

As a human, that would’ve been their girlfriend, whom I haven’t chosen a name for yet, but is incredibly relevant to Dual’s backstory.

As a demon, Dual didn’t have many friends before they started staying at the Hazbin. They already weren’t the best at socializing before they died, aand then they woke up with a body that makes burning bridges a bit more literal.

It’s hard to make friends when you keep getting kicked out of third spaces for accidentally setting things on fire. It’s hard to make friends when anger fans the flames of their fire-half and sadness makes their water-half flood the room.

I’ve decided that in Dual’s story, the newly rebuilt Hazbin is entirely fireproof. (That’s a very useful feature to have anyway, considering the amount of pyromancers and pyromaniacs who live in/frequently visit the hotel.) Between that and group giving them a regularly scheduled talk-to-other-people event, they finally start making friends.

Ok, now that I’ve gone on that tangent: Raze. It’s gotta be Raze. It takes them a while to get there—they’re initially scared of Raze, because Raze is scary on purpose—but once their relationship develops, Raze is the one they’d want in their corner most.

Raze is fiercely loyal when it decides it likes somebody, and it likes Dual. Dual becomes less afraid of Raze over time, especially as that loyalty is shown, and eventually comes to the point where Raze is the person they call when they’re in danger.

Raze isn’t so great at helping with fear from less tangible sources. If Dual has a nightmare or a flashback, Raze is going to stand there—well, I’d say “awkwardly” but it won’t be awkward for Raze, only for Dual and any bystanders—and watch, not really knowing what to do.

I haven’t worked out the relationships between Dual and the other Hazbins, but I’m guessing they’d default to the fire-resistant ones in cases like those. So, Charlie, Lucifer, and Niffty are all on the table as possibilities, but idk if they’ll ever get close enough to any of them to think, “I’m scared and Raze won’t understand, I need to call x.”

Raze’s presence might still be comforting, even if it doesn’t do anything, so if Dual doesn’t wind up close with Charlie, Luci, or Niffty, then we’re back to Raze again.

This answer got soo off topic, just to arrive at Daze, but uh, yeah! Thanks again for the ask, lol.