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omegalomania · 2 years

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Wait why does everyone hate brendon urie again?

i was tempted to just say "google it" but honestly panic's pr team is working doubletime to sanitize this bastard so here's a quick primer for those who are out of the loop.

this got long so i’m putting it under a cut. as a warning, this is going to have discussions and screenshots of people saying and doing extremely morally reprehensible shit, including racist, homophobic, and transphobic language, sexual harassment of minors, and more. tread with caution.

i'm also going to top this off with the caveat that brendon has a history of saying generally stupid and casually shitty things that a lot of people have noticed and called attention to, but these were largely unremarkable in the sense that they were the sort of things that i was not surprised to hear a privileged cis dude say. so while that's definitely a factor - the guy has said very shitty, openly racist, gross things, etc., numerous times and on numerous platforms and i do not want to overlook that - i also don't want to pretend like that’s the only thing going on here because there is a lot of other heinous shit at work.

i’m also not going to go into the intricacies of song meanings or lyrics and the like aside from a couple touchstone examples. it’s pretty public knowledge by now that i don’t know how but they found me (henceforth referred to as idkhow, fronted by dallon weekes, who worked/toured with panic for a good eight years as its bassist) has quite a few numbers that take implicit and explicit aim at panic, most prominently the video for their single “do it all the time,” which featured dallon setting fire to all the suits he used to wear on tour with the band. it’s an open secret that dallon was not treated very well during his time with panic, but we’ll get to that. the point here is that i don’t want to focus on conjecture of speculation when we have a wealth of very hard evidence at our disposal.

so let’s get into it.

the real Poop started up late 2019 iirc, when numerous panic fans started passing around stories about zack hall, panic's bodyguard and security guy who had been with the band since the fever era. as the only person who had actually been with the band as long as brendon himself, zack had a fair amount of sway with the fans and was notably very very close with brendon. as more and more people spoke up, it became apparent that zack had done a whole lot of things that i would term as "incredibly fucked up" over the years with people being generally afraid to say anything. it’s been pointed out to me that these accusations only picked up traction around that time; fans have been raising flags about zack’s behavior for years without any reaction from panic’s management.

around this time, discussion began circulating that brendon himself had sexually harassed/assaulted multiple fans (many of them minors at the time). some of these accusations, such as his attempt to solicit nudes from fans, have proven to be way muddier to and harder to confirm, seeing as brendon was allegedly not in charge of his socials for some of this time and one of the people using his handles to solicit fans for nudes was reportedly a former stalker of his, chelsey lynn.

i think it is worth noting that brendon has brought up his history with “stage gay” with founding member, guitarist, composer, and lyricist ryan ross and mentioned that brendon’s attempts to get handsy on stage were not always taken kindly (emphasis mine):

For our first headline tour I would go up to Ryan our guitar player, and like kiss him on the neck or kiss him on the mouth and he would be so mad. I was like, I just want to kiss you bro.

(that’s also the interview where brendon tried to both-sides the issue of roseanne being a hideous fucking racist. so, fun stuff.)

in any case, it took brendon four months to respond to any of the accusations leveled at him and zack. he ended up doing so by filming a two-minute apology on his twitch account (which was locked to subscribers only, meaning it was essentially monetized) [twitter thread summary for those who can't stomach it], only to say that he was just too anxious to say anything and that while zack had been removed from his position, he and brendon would remain close friends. he did not respond to any of the allegations against himself, and proceeded to basically go completely radio silent on all social media until reemerging in 2022 to promote viva las vengeance.

(contrast to this to how speedily he fired touring guitarist kenny harris in 2018 when multiple allegations arose that he was soliciting underage girls. he was removed from the tour in less than twenty-four hours. while the expediency of this was praised at the time, it retroactively raises a lot of questions as to how much brendon and/or zack knew about this behavior beforehand and were simply waiting for a good PR call to do something about it.)

brendon seeing no issues with zack’s behavior and only doing something about it when backed into a corner is very much not a good look, and is suggestive of the possibility that he’s complicit in or at the very least tolerant of this kind of fuckery.

but wait. theres more.

beyond the genuine fucked up behavior, brendon also has a history of severely mistreating his bandmates. we could get into the politics of the infamous schism that split founding member ryan ross (along with bassist jon walker) from brendon and the band’s drummer, spencer smith, but that is its own bag of worms and this post is long enough already. that drama is very well-covered. however, i think it’s worth noting that out of every single member of the band that has come through it, both creative contributor and touring member, the only former member to depart the band amiably was spencer, who took his leave because of struggles with alcoholism. he’s the only one who remains on good terms with brendon to this day, but he’s also technically brendon’s boss at this point since he helps manage the label dcd2, of which panic at the disco is a part.

most apparent and well-documented of brendon’s spotty history with his own bandmates is his treatment of dallon weekes and his wife, breezy weekes, while the former was writing and touring with the band. in that little zack hall clusterfuck above you can see places where breezy talked about being repeatedly harassed but electing to keep quiet so that dallon wouldn't risk losing his job. reportedly they both went to panic's management to put a stop to it, but the bad behavior continued, with both zack hall and brendon’s wife, sarah urie, as propagators. there was public outcry as people insisted that dallon and breezy were making this up for attention. however, eventually former touring guitarist (from 2009-2012) ian crawford (along with his sister), both spoke up to corroborate that zack's behavior (and brendon's enabling of it) were very much recurring issues and were part of the reason that ian left panic in the first place. ian's twitter is no longer active, so all i have are screenshots on tumblr for this one.

dallon has not spoken of his time spent with panic with much fondness. he replaced bassist jon walker in 2009 and contributed creatively on both vices and virtues (2011) and too weird to live, too rare to die (2013). for the former, he was responsible for the concept and album art. for the latter, he got writing credit for all but two of the tracks (casual affair and end of all things), and you can even find an early version of "far too young to die" that was originally penned for one of dallon's earlier projects, the brobecks. the controversial track "girls/girls/boys" (as well as “all the boys”) from too weird was written for dallon's wife, breezy, as a celebration for her pansexuality. the finished product would end up being about an alleged threesome brendon had.

in 2015 dallon stated that he would no longer be involved in panic’s writing process but would continue to serve as touring bassist before departing officially in 2017 and focusing all his efforts on the aforementioned idkhow along with former falling in reverse drummer (and former fellow brobecks bandmate) ryan seaman. while dallon has remained relatively cagey about his time with panic (as is entirely within his rights), he has on occasion commented that he often felt bullied and belittled in the workplace, and once referred to zack hall as "the actual worst person [he had] ever met."

breezy has been more frank about what dallon had to deal with during his time with the band and over time, dallon has been more up front about this as well. turns out dallon was underpaid to the point where he had to take up a second job cleaning carpets while touring with panic, and working side jobs and donating plasma for gas money between tours. this continued well into 2010 and possibly for longer. the ratio was reportedly something like $400 a night compared to brendon's $15k paycheck, so take that as you will.

that's most of what i can remember. i tried to sauce everything i could but please let me know if i missed anything. i also tried to embed the images but doing so kept breaking the damn post cause this is a webbed site so you only get links SORRY

tldr brendon urie is self-absorbed prick who hoards credit, mistreats his musicians, shelters predators, and may very well be a predator himself. fuck him.

also, while i definitely don't want to downplay the severity of just how horrendous a lot of this shit is, in the interests of not wrapping this on a totally down note i do want to mention that people were writing brendon and panic out of the "emo trinity" legacy as early as mid-2019 because everyone hated pray for the wicked that fucking much. after having to endure the musical travesty that is high hopes innumerable times during every single 20-minute grocery store run i was ready to chalk up my dislike of him to sheer annoyance so you can imagine my surprise when i learned that not only was this annoyance justified i wasn't actually hating him nearly enough.

#panic at the disco #brendon urie #yeah whatever ill maintag this just in case people arent aware #also yes you can reblog this as a general rule i never put something on this blog im not ok w people reblogging #have fun go wild whatever but people looking to pick a fight WILL be blocked #i was watching a lot of this going down in real time but there arent a lot of useful consolidations of all this information #and i'd like to stress that this is a fraction of a fraction of whats out there #theres also a lot of discussion on tiktok reportedly?? idk i dont have a tiktok and never will #if anyone feels like adding anything feel free but do please source it #i have had to fight off TOO many intrepid discoursers with a pointy stick to deal with unsauced claims currently #askin hours #anon #SORRY THIS TOOK SO LONG also i have been drinking quite a bit at this point hopefully this is all coherent lol

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pyrriax · 2 months

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your centurion anatomy sounds really cool :0! can you describe more in detail about them?

in your screenshot it stated they have a crystalline star in their hearts, does this have something to do with the seraphim? also by "tainted by gold" does that mean centurion blood or do seraphim also have gold blood? what are the different colors of centurion blood and are they all some matter of metallic? how do centurions connect to their seraphim?

you can also talk about seraphim anatomy if you want :3 (im also very curious about why they went extinct but im guessing thats spoilers)

also who are the other centurions and seraphim aside from clown and branzy? do they have some kind of hierarchal system? how do seraphim give their souls to creations since im assuming its literal? and what is the exact purpose of soul-sharing?

no need to answer all or any of these ofc just curious :3

Hello hello yes of course! I'm happy to elaborate more on them ^_^ I'll be pulling pieces from my notes, some screenshots of writing I've done relating to it, and just going into some Details.

(Fair warning this is going to be a LOT of words and a lot of this is subject to change, this project and world is a work in progress and I've been shifting things around as I start actually writing things!)

Preface (A quick rundown of the World itself)

Divided into two parts, the main one I'll be focusing on is The Vesper, Vesper is the name of the main Seraph city, and is also used to refer to the floating islands which are the main home of the Seraphs.

The other part of the world, The Fray, is the actual planet. This is the ground, and was once a lush place, but is currently... Not so much. Once upon a time, it had a handful of different names, but now it's nothing more than ruin.

So, Seraph anatomy (What the hell even is a Seraph?)

Seraphs are an organic bipedal species which are humanoid in nature but tend toward being less human in appearance; though one of the main differences is their many (varying number) of wings, along with having anywhere from two to four eyes. Though, all of these things variy from Seraph to Seraph! In general, they're a bit bird-ish, and though the main two that I'll be talking about look relatively similar, Seraphs have a wide variety of colors and patterns, along with the fact they're known to dye feathers the same as people dye their hair!

(Note: this is an older sketch, before I'd really fleshed out the exact origin of Seraphs. The halo isn't a standard thing, but this does somewhat convey general anatomy! This is a Seraph which is basically showing off what it is, and taking a less strictly humanoid appearance, though it remains bipedal. As well, this is a four-winged example, although its ears are feathered, which can give the appearance of an additional set of wings, depending on the Seraph!)

Generally speaking, Seraphim anatomy isn't too out of the ordinary, although one thing to note is their speech is much more adapted toward chirping and trilling for vocalizations, and most of what I write for the dialogue is more... A transcript of the conversation, than the literal things being said (since I'm already in deep with a worldbuilding project and I don't need to add a conlang on top of that, lol). Well, that's all bar the star in the room, but we'll circle around to that in the next section!

Long before they were known as the Seraphim, Seraphs were a flying creature, and have retained a few key aspects of that, specifically the wings themselves, and a lighter skeleton. This does lead to the high potential of bones breaking, and general injuries, but there are things that circumvent that from being such an issue, which is tied to magic in the world itself.

also by "tainted by gold" does that mean centurion blood or do seraphim also have gold blood?

That line is referring to Seraphim blood! Seraphs have a varied blood color, but the most common one is gold/brass-like, which is usually vibrant but when dried it's much more weathered looking (taking on a greenish hue).

Seraphs are one of two sentient species in their world, and are revered as Gods both for their appearance, and for their abilities. Although, this doesn't mean that they are peaceful, and they often will partake in bloody fights, often to perceived death. Though, these are frowned upon, it isn't outright disallowed, for reasons I'll be getting into! (I swear I'm not dragging this out on purpose I just want to explain what the fuck a Centurion is before we get into magic)

Okay, so what is a Centurion, then? (Centurion Anatomy)

Centurions are primarily humanoid in appearance, but an important distinction to make is that Centurions are not organic. In place of faces, Centurions have masks, which are typically undecorated, left blank to ensure they aren't viewed as expressive or of having emotions. There are few exceptions to this. As well, they typically will have all of their body completely covered, for similar reasons. It's established already in the screenshot you mentioned that Centurions are constructs, and generally speaking, they are made for temporary usage, rather than anything long term. This comes with the nature of their primary purpose, but let's put a pin in that for now.

Despite their status as constructs, they are given pieces which function much like their organs, which primarily exist to be like a siphon for energy and the magic which fuels them. Over time, these pieces wear down, and they will cease to function properly after their designated time is up. This time can be extended, if these pieces are replaced or maintained, but this is something that they cannot do themselves. It was a limitation put into place by their creators to keep them from self-perpetuating and as well to keep them from outliving their usefulness.

These organs appear like they've been made of wood, metal, and wool. This isn't exactly the case, as much of what makes them up is organic material, specifically that of grown stars. (There's worldbuilding and flora explanation I'm not going to drag this out with, but if you're curious I can talk about it more ^_^)

Centurions are nothing more than machines. Or, at least, that's how they were supposed to be, but this isn't how it always remains.

what are the different colors of centurion blood and are they all some matter of metallic?

Centurions have blood much more like humans, though not always. Being variably red or gold, depending on their function. While they are constructs and don't have so much of a need for a circulatory system, this is a bit more... Cosmetic. Centurions with gold blood are more often than not the ones that are made for jobs within Seraphim cities, though this doesn't mean that they always remain there. Although, in rare cases, Centurions may be made without any blood, and instead their organs will be made to replace the few functions it does have.

But, focusing on if all of their blood is metallic, it isn't always the case. Centurions are much more varied, and even from one to another major pieces of anatomy can be wildly different. So, it isn't a far stretch to say there's quite possibly a handful of Centurions with non-metallic blood out there.

Centurion Origins & Purpose (With a little sprinkling of magic!)

So, if you hadn't already guessed it, Centurions were created by the Seraphim! At the beginning, Centurions were made to fill in odd jobs, taking care of things which were necessary and being generally a stand in for workers as the Seraphs progressed. They were modeled after the other sentient species, which are functionally humans but not quite. This was something which caused a fair bit of outrage from them, but the Seraphs didn't exactly care.

Eventually, though, the Centurions took on a much different, and much more... Important role. They took the place of Seraphs in slaughter, in petty squabbles or fights which would've otherwise been an inconvenience. This turned into Centurions no longer being made for small jobs, and instead they were being made as machines of war. They were mindless and soulless soldiers, following orders without a doubt or question.

Although, some Centurions are different from the others: they have a soul, one of the stars. These are the main leaders, and they are the ones which remain for the longest. (This is what Clown is, which is the reason he is the way he is!)

Centurions made for fighting are the only remaining residents of the Fray, and have been the reason for its destruction, after the fall of the Seraphs.

Stars, Magic, all those little things (An some creature details)

Magic in Seraphim is an innate thing, something that everything in the world possesses, but uses in different ways. Some creatures use it for shapeshifting to quickly adapt, others will use it to hunt, meanwhile a handful of species will consume it rather than hunting or scavenging. Although, creatures which consume magic are known to be short lived, and reproduce a lot like how puffball mushrooms do. It's a little horrifying when all of the sudden there are sharp spores flying everywhere, but it's the reason most avoid the main pools of the magic. Seraphs are a species which primarily consume magic, but, unlike the much more nudibranch-esque creatures which are prone to exploding due to the magic they consume, Seraphs have harnessed it for their own purposes.

The Vesper are floating islands which are suspended above vast lakes (which are almost oceanic) and have been held there by the Seraphim. As a means of storing the excess energy they've taken in, they developed a way to use it to continue to suspend the Vesper. These stores could last for several thousand years, assuming they're properly maintained.

But, onto the burning question of the night: what are those stars?

in your screenshot it stated they have a crystalline star in their hearts, does this have something to do with the seraphim?

The star is a key part of the Seraph's anatomy, and is the place where magic tends to remain within their bodies. This is a piece of their heart, the place where their soul resides, and is also their tie to this Godhood they have. Much of the reason they're revered as gods it due to the fact that if the star remains in place, and remains unbroken, it can make them... Somewhat immortal. It greatly heightens their ability to heal, a little like a regeneration potion, if you think about it.

Seraphs are notoriously hard to kill for this reason, given the fact that if given enough time, they're known to be able to sort of regenerate limbs. Not perfectly, and not without several years of time and a high risk of infection, but it's possible. And that's because of the stars. They're almost entities in and of themselves, keeping the Seraphs alive to not die themselves. Although, these stars can survive in other bodies, most notably being placed into Centurions.

So how do you kill the supposedly unkillable, then? What could cause such a mass-dying if they can regenerate?

The easiest and most straightforward way to kill a Seraph is to rip out their star. Although, that involves incapacitating them to some degree (usually via fatally wounding them, as that's generally the most accepted method. This is why it's so greatly frowned upon, as that leaves the Seraph who's been wounded to most likely be killed.) It's recognizable for its shape, which is the origin of its name (for a more visual reference, they're a little like konpeitō, but with a spikier appearance), and though they have varying tones, they're more often than not a pearlescent white. At least, that's when they've been cleaned of blood.

Without their star, the Seraph will die. Even if they we're fatally wounded prior, they will only survive a handful of months at most.

So, this mass dying. While I won't go into all of the details, since that definitely spoils some things, but magic is a finite resource, but even more, Seraphim stars became... Valuable as a weapon. Without the proper maintenance and constant in and out flow of magic, they'll accumulate energy, storing more and more until finally they just explode. Much like the nudibranchs, an excess of this magical energy leads to explosive properties.

This also means that Seraph corpses are dangerous if the stars haven't been removed, which is why in the carnage, there aren't many bodies left to lie and rot. The few Centurions remaining in places like the Vesper cleaned the place of these bodies, and some even took the stars for themselves.

So what do the stars have to do with souls?

In an earlier draft of a concept, I detailed a Seraph getting decapitated and surviving due to its star. The stars are a place where the Seraph's memory, personage, and in the most fantastical sense, their soul, is stored. This Seraph lives, and while it never quite has the same senses as it did before, it is still fundamentally the same person, as its star wasn't harmed in the process.

So; for a Seraph to give a Centurion its soul, that is an act like giving up itself to that Centurion. The Seraph will not exist in the same sense, and as shown with Clown and Branzy, even that will diminish over time.

Although, there is one thing I've avoided mentioning: the humans. Our outliers, as one of the least magically inclined species, they've tried to get ahold of this magic, as well as attempting to use the Seraph's stars for their own. This lead to a few people who've remained, but aren't quite human anymore.

how do seraphim give their souls to creations since im assuming its literal? and what is the exact purpose of soul-sharing?

Seraphim can take out their own star, an act which is painful but to be done for another is a little bit of a profession of love. To give their star to a Centurion, under regular circumstances, it is a way of prolonging the life of their soul. The star is "consumed", a thing which is looked down upon by Centurions, as it's viewed as becoming one with those who've condemned them to their hellish lives.

There are two things that can come of a Seraph's soul being placed into a Centurion, and they go as follows, with few exceptions:

The Centurion is Soulless / a Husk: The soul will continue to live on, but they will start again. It removes all but a few traces of the Seraph's memories, and they will learn to live as they now are. [Example: Ro, who we'll learn more about in the next section]

The Centurion has a Soul / Star (Even if it is one that was grown / artificial): The pre-existing soul will be slowly consumed by the Seraph's, a process which results in one or both of the stars shattering. This can only happen is the Centurion has agreed to it, and it is a thing which became more common as more Seraphs died. [Example: Clown, whose visions of shattering stars are that of his own, and not Branzy's]

Last but not least, an incomplete list of character I've given story to for this AU

Starting with our Seraphim:

Branzy is the most notable as he's the only Seraph who remains a Seraph for his entire existence, even after giving his soul to Clown. Although he's used his magic for shapeshifting purposes, appearing much more akin to the Centurions, as he's been enthralled by them since he was young. Roshambo, although I'll be elaborating more on him in the Centurion section for a few reasons. He was one of the first Seraphs to give his soul to a Centurion, and it had some... Interesting effects.

Onto the Centurions:

Clown is the obvious one, being one of the most perfect example of what makes a Centurion, and being one of the "leaders", his star (his soul) is artificial, one of the ones which was grown, and thus, he's a bit different from Seraph-souled (or, star-eating) Centurions. [Appears a lot like his typical canon appearance, as he was one of the few Centurions who were directly associated with a Seraph, and despite the fact of his origin, he doesn't have the blank mask which is typical of these Centurions. His mask is also carved into a shape which is much more like a horned owl, a little heart-ish; this doesn't affect him.] Zam, a lovely odd case who shows up long after the fall of the Seraphs, but before the Vesper as a whole collapses, who becomes one of the residents of the Vesper's grand library [At least at his introduction, Zam is much like the typical soldier Centurion, dressed in a way which is very impersonal. This changes as he spends time in the library, and by the time of the fall, he's adopted a palette of darker amber hues and white, along with the occasional gold or brass accent. While his mask remained generic for a long time, he eventually allowed Ro to help with adorning it, ending up with a smile and some filigree which matches Ro's own mask.] Roshambo is the last on this list as of currently; although he's fully convinced he isn't a Centurion at all, having been around the other residents of the library since his creation and not knowing himself to be any different from them [Previously being one of the few Centurions who was designated to a space where he would be viewed, Ro is dressed in a way which is almost painfully fancy for him. Unlike the typical blank white, the base color of Ro's mask is an iridescent black, adorned with lavender stripes and laurel patterns. His appearance is a little less decided, compared to the others.]

And last but not least, our... Humans?:

Mapicc is the closest to a normal human of those given one of the Seraph-souls in order to grant him the almost-immortality, this has lead to him having several inhuman traits, including the appearance of seasonally shed feathers, which he's more annoyed by than anything. Spoke is about the furthest from human someone can get while still being so, and this is because of the fact of the star he was given. He was given one of the artificial stars, as a part of a test. He's only become more... Bizarre as time goes on, body twisting and morphing as the magic doesn't know where to go, and he can't fully contain or control it.

The roster is pretty small, since I've been focusing on two different eras, and these two sets don't interact much. Clown and Branzy exist long before the extinction of Seraphs, but Branzy's giving up of his heart does mark the true beginning of the end. Roshambo, Mapicc, and Spoke (later as well including Zam) are the last living beings on the Vesper after the fall of the Seraphs, and are there until the day the sun doesn't set, and the Vesper itself falls from the sky.

... So that's the world of Seraphim, from relative start to end, with much of the fluff, character centric pieces and a bit of the more out-there magical elements cut out to save my damn hands because this is almost 3k words 👍 There are things I'm not sure will remain canon, more proper worldbuilding and flora / fauna exploration I need to work on, and some things I most definitely missed, but hopefully this answers some questions and raises others! there is a lot more to explore post-fall but i have to leave a couple of mysteries, as a treat.

#ask a ghost #asker: citrusinicake #au: seraphim #haunted bookshelf #ALSO i elected to not let myself talk about what disability looks like for Seraphs because i would be here for way too long #just because magic healing and regeneration is a thing doesnt mean that there arent seraphs who Dont recover like that #its actually more common for it to just heal over and instead it's pretty common for those spots to be adorned with symbols and such #lore and worldbuilding things i cannot even start getting into right now i am sending this post and staring at a wall #also please please please if anybody has questions or thoughts let me know i swear i dont bite but i might write an essay in response #ALSO I DIDNT MENTION THE WISPS ACK there are SO many things i didnt include but . auvbnfdjkld #also conclusion this whole post is about 3.4k. erm. youre welcome 👍

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