#also this reply is about canon | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

boyfridged · 1 month

Note

in your fic “paint it over” is that how you imagine jason making it out of the explosion at the end of utrh? not exactly the events that follow, but the preferable characterization of bruce digging jay out of the rubble and carrying him to help. and how do you think jason made it out canonically (without the help of bruce) also!!! what are your thoughts on the specifics of jason’s scar and how he’d behave toward it. i liked the part of your fic where jason was temporarily unable to speak due to the trauma his neck received. i think the scar is something that rests on the junction of his shoulder/neck, and that can be hidden with whatever clothes he wears -> no one knows he has it (or how he got it) either. i like to imagine while bruce knows his batarang made contact with jason’s throat it’s never fully registered to him that it scarred until he sees it for himself (and while i believe bruce would turn the moment in head over and over again until it’s engraved in his brain, his delayed realization—to me—is due to his repression of the occurrence)

oh i adore this whole ask. some of it i explained in my notes, but this fanfic is quite dear to me, so i will elaborate.

short answer to whether this is how i imagine jay making it out of the explosion: not exactly?

the premise that i wanted to explore with paint it over is almost the opposite of a fix-it, and definitely not what i believe it should be in canon.

what i wished to explore there is, however, the part of utrh that is perhaps the most shocking to many readers: that bruce leaves jason to die.

in-universe, i think the answer why it happens is surprisingly simple enough: bruce does not come because he is just... not there. my understanding is, that in a way, the events of under the red hood did not happen. there is nothing to follow. that purple mist in the finale of the utrh, that is often read as a force resurrecting jason (not technically wrong, either)- i believe that is the timeline already rewriting itself, making the whole story into something that was not.

and the reason for the above is the infinite crisis. if i'm not wrong, it's also the inifinite crisis miniseries where bruce meets dick right after the explosions in (or of) bludhaven-- that in batman clearly happens in the background of his confrontation with jay. however, in infinite crisis (#4, just checked it now), bruce tells dick: "i wanted to make sure...you're alright... i was in new york when it hit. got here as soon as i could." which could be a lie or a matter of the editorial not being synced enough- but i'm willing to give them a benefit of the doubt given how it ties with that sudden, stunted ending of utrh.

this makes sense for canon for several reasons. in the animated movie, since it spares us the infinite crisis tie-in, bruce says of the whole incident: this changes nothing. it changes nothing because although aditf isn't, utrh is a tragedy; it changes nothing because since his death, jason is necessarily always pushed at the peripheries of the narrative, no matter how much the fate itself tries to fix it, becoming a tragic footnote. the dead have one right and it's the right to remain silent. and that is ironically ensured on a cosmic level, with his violent attempt at being seen hidden in the folds of the timeline. you can also see it clearly in canon -- i believe it was not until the infinite frontier that the events of utrh got just tangentially mentioned (before that, even lobdell barely touched upon it). other than that, they have no consequences; they are barely ever spoken of; they seem to slip out even from jay's solo comics.

this move was necessary for batman, as a character and as a title: let's say bruce does hold red hood as he does in the alt cover of annual 25 (and the cover of the deluxe edition of utrh.) that would implore a reckoning with his failure and his (suddenly non-productive) grief that would either reconstruct the whole myth or lead to some terrifying implications. these terrifying implications are, essentially, what paint it over is about. it's about the worst happening and about there being no way back from it. and jason, in receiving what he wanted (his father's love and care) wants to deny that reality. they both want to. yet even jay cannot ignore it completely -- and i chose to use the batarang injury to emphasize it.

and about the scar: i mentioned it briefly before, but in the au jason aggravates the wounds on purpose, hence it will scar worse and cause long-term issues for his voice. it's a theme i also keep in some of my other stories (to come...) and i very much think this is what would happen in canon if he had to take care of that injury. yet as it healed, i believe he'd take to hiding it, mostly. still, as it stands, my primary take might be that in canon (if it was to follow the interference into the timeline from the crisis at least) jason would simply end up with no scar at all, and only memories for evidence of what happened, which is perhaps worse for him too (but of course better for bruce. and as it happens, this is bruce wayne's story and everyone else is just living in it- or dies in it- for better or worse. and if we're ignoring that metaphysical timeline bullshit, as you said, i believe bruce would repress it all anyway.)

#this is probably a mess but it's 3am and i should go to sleep so #sorry if it does not make sense/i did not properly reply to everything. i might follow up...#and i'm very curious if you have any more thoughts on jay's scar!!#+ most importantly <3 thank you for reading my work. this makes me so happy.#outbox #yutro writes #btw. i had another post in which i said that i consider what was said in annual 25 about jay's initial resurrection being an attempt ->#of “fate” to fix things to be central to my view on canon. i guess in that case the utrh becoming half erased is another attempt at it ->#when universe loves you so much it rids of the evidence of your trauma...#also i forgot to mention. i am very much for jay's storyline challenging the status quo of batman as a title #-> but that would make him literally the main character<3 and i don't think most people are ready for it or want it

30 notes · View notes

yukipri · 2 years

Note

I saw somewhere someone says it wasn't the Jedi fault what happened at Galidraan, they were there to arrest and investigate, not to kill, and it was the mando who attack first. Is that true ? I didn't read it

Ahh fandom misunderstandings about Galidraan continue.

Understandable, given it's from a relatively obscure base media but the event comes up a lot in fan works. I'll do my best to break it down.

All you need to know about the Massacre on Galidraan

The following info is all from the Legends comic Jango Fett: Open Seasons, specifically focussing on the 3rd installment, Winter. Here's a photo of my physical copy I have open as I type this, so you know I'm not pulling this info out of my ass.

First, some crucial facts:

1: Galidraan was not a Mandos vs Jedi conflict.

It may appear that way at first glance, and likely seemed that way to many outsiders across the Galaxy who only read about the massacre in a heavily censored news article. But while the battle was the True Mandalorians fighting against the Jedi and ultimately all dying except for Jango, that is not what the conflict was about.

2: There were 4 factions involved in Galidraan.

People oftentimes boil it down to Mandos vs Jedi, but that isn't accurate, because there were 4 parties involved:

The True Mandalorians (Haat Mando'ade; Jango's people)

The Jedi

Death Watch (led by Tor Vizsla, who killed Jaster, Jango's mentor)

The Governor of Galidraan

I have no idea why some fandom takes on Galidraan forget to mention the last two, when they are why the massacre took place at all.

3: The party responsible for the conflict on Galidraan was DEATH WATCH, with the Governor of Galidraan as their accomplice.

The Jedi were used, and the True Mandalorians were victims.

You can endlessly debate whether or not the Jedi or the True Mandalorians could have taken different actions to have possibly prevented the massacre. And it's true, it might have been possible! There were certainly other actions that both sides could have taken.

HOWEVER. That discussion can ONLY take place after understanding that both sides were very intentionally, and very MALICIOUSLY manipulated by a third party.

This was not a normal Jedi vs Mandos clash. Neither the Jedi nor the True Mandalorians would have fought (would have even been on the planet in the first place!) without these manipulations, so to ask which of the two was to blame without first understanding that Death Watch set them up is failing to get Galidraan at all.

Here's what happened at the Massacre of Galidraan:

Jango and the True Mandalorians took a job from the Governor of Galidraan to kill his political opponents. The True Mandalorians are mercenaries, and this was just a job for them. It's also implied that Jango knew in advance that the Governor of Galidraan had been harboring Tor Vizsla and funding Death Watch*, and he intentionally took the job in order to get the Governor to owe him and pay him with information on them.

Jango and the True Mandalorians killed the Governor's political opponents, just as they were hired to do, and upheld their agreement. When Jango goes to collect payment, it was a trap—Tor Vizsla and Death Watch were waiting for him, and attempted to kill him.

Jango escapes, but his jetpack is damaged, as are his comms (or perhaps more likely, his comms were intentionally blocked). This is important because Jango now knows explicitly that they were set up: that the Governor of Galidraan was always working with Death Watch, and that he and his people being called to this planet was a trap in order to kill them. He tries to warn the True Mandalorians (Myles, his second, to be exact) to evacuate, but is unable to reach them because of his comms connection.

Back with Death Watch and the Governor, after Vizsla fails to kill Jango, they watch as the Jedi land on planet. The Governor states: "Yes, as you [Tor Vizsla] instructed, I begged for [the Jedi/the Republic's] help. Informed them that the Mandalorians were slaughtering political activists, which is basically true."

So, let's get this straight: the Governor of Galidraan, who personally HIRED the True Mandalorians to get rid of his political opponents, is now calling the Jedi to say "Oh no the Mandalorians are killing political activists!" And he did so under the explicit orders of Tor Vizsla. He explicitly backstabbed the True Mandalorians.

Should note that the True Mandalorians do follow a code, and only killed the specific people considered a threat (aka combatants). The True Mandalorians did not touch civilians, but as you can see from frames above, Death Watch goes ahead and kills them to make false evidence against the True Mandalorians and therefore justify their slaughter.

Again: Death Watch/Tor Vizsla and the Governor of Galidraan EXPLICITLY set up the True Mandalorians/Jango.

Next: Jango gets back to the True Mandalorians' camp as soon as he can, and arrives just as a large group of Jedi arrive, led by Dooku. Their lightsabers are already drawn.

Dooku says to them: "You stand accused of murder. Surrender now and we will ensure that you are fairly treated."

The girl next to Dooku, presumably young Komari Vosa, adds, "But fight us, and we will bring swift justice!"

Jango's response: "Mandalorians, open fire! And shoot the loudmouth first!"

And so the battle begins.

Without any of the previous context, sure, it might be easy to say "Jango's responsible, he fired first." But take a moment to think about what led up to this moment.

Jango knows, explicitly, that Death Watch and the Governor are working together.

He knows that Death Watch just wants him dead, and in fact very literally just escaped being killed.

He knows that he and his people are caught in a trap, and that Death Watch and the Governor want them all dead.

He probably isn't sure how they're going to be killed—until he arrives back at camp, and sees a shitton of Jedi with their lightsabers drawn, who are accusing them of a crime they did not commit. And he must have thought, ah, that would do it.

This isn't a normal encounter with the Jedi. It's true that Mandalorians have reasons to dislike Jedi as a whole, but Jango didn't shoot first because of that.

Jango shot first because he recognized that the Jedi were the weapon that Death Watch and the Governor chose for the execution of himself and his people. And he wasn't wrong.

Could Jango have maybe stopped to have a gentlemanly chat with Dooku and say "Good sir, we did not commit any murder, you were told false information and are being manipulated and we the True Mandalorians have been set up. Please put away your lightsabers so we can talk"? I mean. He could have. But.

With all of the context above, his decision to raise arms also makes sense.

After the battle, all fo the True Mandalorians present have been killed except Jango, as well as roughly half of the Jedi. Many of those Jedi were killed by Jango himself, with nothing but his bare hands—this is how he gains his infamous reputation as a "Jedi Killer." But to him, he was acting in self-defense.

The Jedi—or rather, at least Dooku—realize that they have been used only after the fact, and that they've done something horribly wrong and have killed innocents. Surrounded by the bodies of Jedi and True Mandalorians, and having just watched Jango strangle one last Jedi, Dooku says:

"What have we done...?"

In the "present" of the comic (pre-clone deal), Dooku also tells Sidious about Galidraan, "It was a misguided mission from the start. And not the first of the Council's many...poor decisions."

So what happened afterwards?

Jango alone was captured alive, and for some darn reason the Jedi turned him over to the Governor of Galidraan*. The Governor sold Jango to slavers and he was forced to work on a spice transport, until an opportunity arose to escape.

After escaping, did Jango seek out the Jedi?

No.

He beelined straight back to Galidraan, where the Governor, who had sold him and worked with Death Watch, had taken his armor (Jaster's armor) as some sort of twisted war trophy. He recovered his armor, and threatened the governor to get info on Tor Vizsla's location.

After that, did he go on a revenge campaign against the Jedi?

No.

He went straight for Tor Vizsla, who was PERSONALLY responsible for the deaths of the True Mandalorians at Galidraan. And he fought him. And killed him.

(or more specifically, injured him then let dire-cats eat him alive. Looks like Fetts have always had good luck with animals)

So that's the facts about Galidraan.

After Thoughts:

I hope this breakdown of the events makes it explicitly clear that Death Watch and the Governor were at fault for Galidraan, and that it was never a Mandos vs Jedi conflict. The same thing would have happened had Death Watch chosen a different executioner—though to be fair, not much can kill a trained group of Mandalorian mercenaries like the True Mandalorians.

Could both the True Mandalorians and Jedi have taken different actions that could have averted tragedy? Possibly. But just as likely, had Jango tried to talk, word would have reached the Jedi's ears that oh no, more Mandalorians are slaughtering the Galidraan women and children! (what Death Watch was doing while the True Mandos and Jedi were fighting) and then one of the more hot headed Jedi like Vosa probably would have been like "These negotiations are a distraction! Even now you're killing innocents—we fight!" And the True Mandos would have been killed anyway.

Again, they were set up. The True Mandalorians to be killed, the Jedi to be used as their ignorant executioner. They were not the only parties involved, and any attempt to peacefully negotiate their way out of it would have been hindered by the true aggressors, who already had contingency plans at the ready. And also, both parties were already expecting certain things of the other: Jango knew the Jedi had been sent to kill them (though not why the Jedi believed they should), and the Jedi thought they were a bunch of murderers, not a professional group simply hired for a job.

This is just my personal take, but while I don't think either Jango nor Dooku acted unreasonably at the time of the battle, there were two points where I think they could have made better decisions (marked with * above):

1) When Jango decided to take a job on Galidraan in the first place, knowing in advance that the Governor was friendly with Tor Vizsla and Death Watch. Admittedly, the comic doesn't provide much context for this, and perhaps the intel Jango had suggested a more distant connection, or something else to imply the Governor would be willing to rat out Death Watch. It seems almost cute that Jango goes ok, well I don't want to just randomly bust this guy's door down to threaten him for info on my arch nemesis, so I'm going to do a job for him and get him to owe me, and then we'll talk.

If there is one not so intelligent move Jango made, it seems like this one, though again there's not much context so perhaps it does make more sense.

2) When the Jedi give Jango to the Governor of Galidraan. I don't know about the rest of the Jedi, but Dooku at least seemed to sense that something had gone horribly wrong with the mission immediately after the battle, before they took Jango into custody. But despite KNOWING this, they didn't take the time to thoroughly investigate (better late than never) before handing Jango to his enemies on a silver platter. I would say that the Jedi ARE pretty responsible for this part, especially since they had reason to know better.

This action of the Jedi handing Jango over also implies that even if Jango had complied and he and all of the True Mandalorians had surrendered to the Jedi in hopes of talks, the Jedi would have handed them all over to the Governor (and Death Watch) to either be turned into slaves or executed. So no, I don't think that would have worked out well at all.

(I'm going to give at least Dooku the benefit of doubt, since the comic shows that at least he (and possibly he alone of the Jedi present) recognized that something was wrong. I'd hope that as the leader and presumably most senior member of the group of Jedi, he'd have some sort of authority, but then again, this is the Senate. He might have tried to at least delay Jango being handed over to the Governor until an investigation was conducted, but was perhaps held back by too much legal tape, and had to watch as someone he was sure was a victim was handed over to a suspicious party. Maybe he personally did an investigation afterwards and found that his bad feelings were correct, but when he tried to bring it up with the Council/Senate, he was told to forget about it. That would certainly shatter what remaining faith he had in the Republic and the Jedi, and possibly also lead him to search out Jango specifically as a candidate for the clone project—but again, this is purely speculation. Either way, Galidraan forms a potentially very fascinating connection between Dooku and Jango that predates Sidious.)

On the Jedi:

While the Galidraan conflict isn't about the Jedi, and they were simply used, I think internally, it does reveal some deep flaws in the Jedi Order as a whole, and that Dooku's criticisms of how they acted are fair. Dooku tells Jango, "[Galidraan] was the last of my foolish errands for the Senate. And the Jedi."

The Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, are supposed to understand and help people across the Galaxy, which their connection to the Force is supposed to help with. But by becoming an entity controlled by a political power that responds to mission requests through that chain, the Jedi are at risk of being used for various political agendas, sometimes to terrible consequences—like at Galidraan.

The quote above shows that the orders for the Jedi came from the Senate, who got them from the Governor of Galidraan. The fact is that the Jedi are a completely external force with zero familiarity with Galidraan or its current happenings, who were summoned by a government to do their bidding. If there was any investigation done, it clearly wasn't enough, and the Jedi were essentially turned into super deadly government attack dogs.

Galidraan laid bare the great danger that the Jedi can be, when their power is given to the wrong hands. Again, the Jedi were used—but that they could be used, that they likely have been used in the past and will be used in the future so long as they are beholden to a Republic whose orders they must follow—that's something to think about.

Again, it's not about Jedi vs Mandos. Sure, the fact that the Jedi have bad history with Mandos may have affected the lack of depth in their investigation. But it could have just as easily been "Group of X people are murdering innocents!" and the very same thing could have happened. This conflict revealed far less, "wow the Jedi really hate Mandos!" and more, "the Jedi and the Republic have a flawed relationship, and obeying government orders does not necessarily a peacekeeper make."

Given that the Jedi decided to give Jango to the Governor, I think it's very likely that no deep investigation was ever done into Galidraan, and if it was, it was covered up. After all, it's against the Republic's interests to show that they passed manipulated info to the Jedi, because they can't have the Jedi wanting to question future orders or worse, refuse to obey! And in a way, it's against the Order's interests to show that they not only fucked up by going to the mission at all, but further fucked up by handing the last surviving victim to the enemy after the fact. Add to that the fact that Death Watch was on site actively manipulating evidence and muddling the truth, and Jango no longer has anyone left alive to vouch for him so it's only his word, it's very likely that the truth really never got out of the small circle of those personally involved.

Perhaps the Jedi taught about Galidraan internally as a cautionary tale about being careful about the orders they're given. But given the above, I think that's incredibly generous and frankly unlikely.

On Jango Fett

This leads me to a final point: I disagree that Jango passionately hates and wants revenge on the Jedi.

At least, based on this story, as well as his depiction in the Bounty Hunters video game (which is supposed to be a sequel to this comic, even though its depiction of the start of the cloning contract isn't mutually compatible with the version in this comic) Jango doesn't actually really appear to care all that much about the Jedi at all.

You can say what you will about his actions, but he always has a very clear target for who his enemy is, and he goes straight for them. Immediately post Galidraan, it was the Governor of Galidraan and then Tor Vizsla specifically—not even the rest of Death Watch!

And while there isn't all that much official info on what Jango did after he killed Vizsla until he was pulled into the cloning project, I see zero evidence that he was consumed by revenge, or that he attempted to hunt down the rest of Death Watch or kill any Jedi despite the harm they have done to him in the past.

In fact, from his depiction at the start of the Bounty Hunters game, which I think is the best source of this period of his life that I can think of, it looks like Jango just kind of threw himself into bounty hunting work. After all, one does not have the reputation as "best bounty hunter in the galaxy" overriding "former Mand'alor, leader of the True Mandalorians" unless he did, well, a lot of bounty hunting.

He was a loner who didn't have any friends, which implies he didn't go looking for any surviving True Mandalorians—and there must have been, not everyone could have been in that battle. I suspect it's out of guilt, but that's a separate discussion. He didn't go hunting Jedi specifically, because presumably not many Jedi (who still identify as Jedi) have bounties on them, and "Jedi Killer" would certainly be a reputation louder than bounty hunter if that was his main focus.

But no. He was just a sad, lost dude who's really good at killing people so continues the Honorable Mercenary traditions of his people who are now gone, all by himself. Even the contest that lead to him being chosen as the Prime clone was originally just another job, and he just happened to meet Montross in the process, but he didn't really go out of his way to hunt him down either, despite how he was personally responsible for Jaster's death.

However—if you don't know that about Jango, and again don't have a full understanding of what happened at Galidraan (which again, I doubt many people do), I think it would be very easy to go oh! The Jedi killed all his people! So of course he hates Jedi!

(Which then provides a reason for why the Sith would think he would want to work with them to hurt Jedi—but does NOT explain why the Jedi would not think it suspicious that he's the Prime clone for an army supposedly made to help them. But that too is a separate exploration.)

All of this makes Jango a very fascinating character for me, and I could go on to explore his motivations and actions so much more—and in fact I do!!! All of those explorations of Jango and his motives and past are included as a large part of my fic, The Prime Override! So I won't go into it more here, this post is long enough, but you can check out my thoughts there! (LMAO sudden self-promo)

But anyway!!! I hope this whole thing was interesting for you, and that it helped you understand what happened at Galidraan better!

Again, the comic is Jango Fett: Open Seasons, written by Hayden Blackman, art by Ramon Bachs, Raul Fernandez, and Brad Anderson, published by Dark Horse Comics in 2002.

While I believe the standalone comic is out of print (I had to hunt down my copy on ebay), it's all included in Marvel Unlimited's digital comic library. It's also in the Star Wars Omnibus: Emissaries & Assassins collection, which might be cheaper because it's more recent.

As tragic as Jango's past is, it's one of my favorite Legends stories and I recommend reading the story for yourself if you can!

❀ ❀ Send YukiPri an Ask! ❀ ❀

#YukiPri rambles #YukiPri replies #Galidraan #Jango Fett #Star Wars #Star Wars Legends #Count Dooku #SW Lore #Open Seasons #comics #longpost #long post #OP comment: All of this is also why it absolutely BAFFLES me that new canon seems so obsessed with Death Watch #and has made lots of other Mando factions but hasn't really done much about the True Mandalorians???#like that is what I was expecting the Book of Boba Fett to be about #especially given the timing of being after Mando S2 and Din getting the Darksaber but before Mando S3 #Should note: this comic predates the Darksaber's existence by 8 years #so people who say 'oh Jango and Jaster were never the true leaders of Mandalore bc they never had the Darksaber'#my dude the Darksaber did not appear as a concept until 8 years after these stories were published #Anyway if you are like me and think gosh most of the new canon Mando factions are real assholes in some way or another #why is there no Hero Group #here they are: the True Mandalorians and Boba Fett's heritage #Anyway really REALLY hoping they bring this story back into new canon #Jaster was an easter egg and now technically canon thanks to Boba's armor chain code which means True Mandos are also presumably canon #so here's to hoping...#Anyway yeah I wrote this essay in place of updating fic oops

443 notes · View notes

amethystina · 2 months

Note

I'm waiting so excitedly for your updates, old and new, I can't begin to tell you! You are the fandom treasure! And as I'm waiting and biting my nails I wanted to ask something, what do you think about the final scenes of episode 8 where Gaon has dinner with his professor and tells him he chooses Yohan's side. How come Yohan knew where to find them and the precise moment to come in and pick Gaon up, was he following them or did he and Gaon had a deal?

And what's with leaving his car to stand next to Gain and look at professor? I love this scene so much but I don't know if I understand its message right. Was it posturing, laying a claim on Gaon or what? I tend to feel that Yohan was possessive of Gaon when it came to professor and his police friend and I think I feel some of it in this scene but I'm not sure, I just don't have a clear grasp on it. Would love to know your thoughts!

Aww, thank you so much, sweetheart! This is definitely the first time I've been called not just a fandom treasure, but the fandom treasure. Thank you 💜

Ah yes, the "Ga On runs off with his new sugar daddy" scene. Or, as I sometimes like to call it, the "You just don't understand, dad professor — I love him" scene.

I'm joking, obviously.

(... or am I?)

I would say that Ga On and Yo Han made an agreement beforehand, yes. They probably talked about Ga On's choice to switch sides and while Yo Han would no doubt have loved for Ga On to continue on as a double agent (feeding Professor Min intentionally faulty information) Ga On is way too honest for that. So he probably insisted that, no, he'll call Professor Min, meet up with him, and just flat out tell him that Ga On's spying mission is over. He's now going to elope work with Yo Han instead.

And I find it hilarious to think that, most likely, Yo Han was just sitting in his car, perhaps scrolling through his phone, waiting for his newly acquired sugar baby to finish telling his semi-father figure that he's going dark side. Because Ga On gets up and starts walking before Yo Han drives up, meaning that it's not like Ga On saw the car coming and went "oh, better wrap this up now." It was probably the other way around, where Ga On leaving the table was the signal for Yo Han to come pick him up.

So yes, they definitely had an agreement, especially since Ga On seems to know in exactly which direction to walk, even before the car shows up, and doesn't look the least bit surprised by Yo Han's arrival.

They planned that shit.

Brutal.

As for the fact that Yo Han gets out of the car? Well, buckle up, my darlings, because I think we should take a detour to discuss intent.

Now, intent isn't necessarily important when you want to interpret a scene, but I like the extra nuance it can offer. And by intent, I mean what the scriptwriter/director might have intended with a scene. Why is this scene here? What was the plan behind it? How is it supposed to impact the overall story? How does it tie into the rest of the plot?

Which is never something you can say for sure, of course, unless there are interviews expressly stating it, but, a lot of the time, we can guess.

The intent behind this scene, in its simplest, purest form, is to show that Ga On is switching sides. And, with that in mind, it makes sense that he crosses that road to Yo Han's car (if you know me and my metas, you know how much I love lines, characters crossing said lines, and the symbolism of that) and stops to stand next to Yo Han. It's a very simple yet effective way to show Ga On's choice and where it will take him.

Into Yo Han's arms.

NOW. Intent is very useful because, depending on how skilled the person writing is, you can hide a lot of subtext and leave room for a lot of interpretation with a cleverly formulated intent. That's how censored shows get away with so much, because they can point to the perfectly reasonable, heteronormative intent behind a scene and pretend that there aren't also a lot of subtler nuances to the reading.

And, if they're extra bold, they also add hints in the presentation and execution.

The scene where Yo Han invites Sun Ah to the house is a perfect example of this, where the intent is to make her feel lonely, like an outsider, as she's invited to observe this warm, comfortable family. Not a bad tactic as far as manipulation goes, I have to say. So, in other words, very reasonable intent — makes sense with what they're trying to achieve.

The fact that it ends up looking more like Yo Han is proudly showing off his doting, doe-eyed househusband who's passively-aggressively and not-so-discreetly staking his claim is... well, that's just an accidental side effect, isn't it? Not intent at all.

And that's true. It's not intent that makes it look gay.

It's the presentation of the intent.

(Sidenote: To be a fly on the wall when Yo Han and Ga On came up with this strategy. Because, clearly, they were both in on it and, I mean, how did that conversation go? Inquiring minds need to know.

Like, how did they go from: "We need to throw her off balance. We'll invite her to the house, show what she's missing out on, but also give her hints that she could have it all, if she's willing to surrender" to Ga On going: "I'll cook a fancy dinner. That'll make her jealous."

I mean, he's not wrong but, like, Mr. Sugar Baby. What? x'D

Also, imagine Yo Han's face. Transcendent.)

Anyway. Intent can also ruin a story. I think most of us have read a fanfic and gone: "... that character wouldn't do that. This makes no sense." That could be a sign that the author's intent is clashing with the characters or the story they're trying to tell. Or, put more bluntly, that the author is so focused on forcing an idea that they don't realise that they're going against the logic of the story or characters' personalities. Things happen because they want them to, not because it makes sense, meaning that the intent isn't tied to the story or characters, but what the writer wants. This is badly planned intent.

And, most of the time, readers can tell when the intent is off, even if you might not be able to put your finger on it while you're reading. But if you're feeling a niggling doubt at the back of your mind, wondering why this scene is here, what this scene even means, or why this character suddenly seems to act so strangely, it could be that the writer didn't plan it well enough.

That's not to say that a reader must always know the intent behind a scene. Ideally, the story should be good enough that they don't have to stop and think about things like that. If the intent and internal logic are sound enough, it should just flow naturally.

Because, when it comes down to it, pretty much all scenes in a story have an intent and that intent should be in harmony with the characters' personalities and how they would choose to behave. And I don't mean that there can never be conflict or that characters can't disagree — I mean that all scenes should have a reason for being there. It doesn't have to be a deep or complex reason, but there should be a reason that ties into the overarching plotline. And characters shouldn't be forced into a scene they have no business being in. Intent is very important from a crafting standpoint.

And intent is one of the things that makes The Devil Judge such an absolute joy. Because while there is always a perfectly reasonable — and very heterosexual, we promise — intent behind most scenes, they often choose to present the scenes in a way that leaves room for a much queerer reading. Now, that can happen with almost any story, but what sets The Devil Judge apart is that it seems to be entirely intentional.

The presentation is by no means subtle or accidental.

Like, they didn't have to make Ga On shuffle up in a soft, comfortable sweater and greet Sun Ah like a caring househusband, but they did. That was a conscious choice.

And this scene you mention, with Yo Han getting out of his car when he's picking Ga On up, falls into a similar category in my mind. The surface-level intent is clear — show that Ga On is switching sides — but he could simply have said so. He could have borrowed a car and driven himself. Yo Han didn't have to come pick him up. And he certainly didn't have to get out of the car.

But he did.

And that might be what you're picking up on when you're saying that you're not sure if you're understanding the message correctly. Because in a drama this clever, that puts so much effort into details and, again, intent, it feels almost a bit odd to leave this gaping hole, doesn't it? Yo Han stepping out of that car should mean something, right?

And, once you've gotten this far, you've got a couple of options to choose from to fill in the blanks. Either you can assume that it was just something the creators chose to do because it looked/seemed cool and therefore might not mean much at all. And considering that this drama does that a couple of times, this could honestly be the case. Maybe they just thought it would be more effective to have Yo Han to step out of the car? To really hammer it home to Professor Min what's happening?

Your other option is to bring in the harmonisation between intent and characters. Because, if the writer is good and their characters consistent, you should be able to pick up on secondary layers of intent, running parallel with the main one. Because while each scene has an intent, each character IN that scene also has one (though perhaps it would be more comfortable to call it purpose at this point?).

In other words: If "it looked cool" isn't the answer, could we find it in the character's behaviour instead? What is their intent, based on their personalities and previous actions? Does that give a more satisfying answer?

What reason would Mr. Kang "Abyss" Yo Han have for stepping out of that car?

I, personally, think that the answer is pretty simple.

He is absofuckinglutely staking a claim.

He's stepping out of that car because he's a Possessive, Dramatic Bitch and wants to rub it in Professor Min's face. He wants to show that he's won, that he's turned the spy Professor Min sent, and that he's, quite literally, taking Ga On away.

Yo Han is basically going: "Thanks for the sugar baby — I'll make sure to ravish savour treasure him."

So while the main goal of that scene is to establish that Ga On is switching sides, the intent Yo Han adds with his actions leaves room for a very gay reading. In fact, I'd argue that doing so only makes the scene more believable, since Yo Han's actions are otherwise kind of... unnecessary? He has no reason to step out of the car and make himself known, unless it's for the dramah.

Again, the presentation of the intent is where the magic happens.

So, why this long, godawful rant about intent, you ask? When I could just have answered the question right away?

Because while I know that I'm preaching to the choir in terms of this drama being gay as hell, I just want to highlight the importance of intent and how it can change the reading of a scene. I think intent — or specifically the harmony between characters and intent, and the various layers of intent — is absolutely fascinating, especially in this drama.

Especially if you want to argue that it's gay.

Because there is, in fact, some scenes where I just... I can't. The intent and characterisation don't match at all — unless you add a queer element. Like, this drama is so clever. Not perfect, mind you, but so clever. And so careful with especially Yo Han and Ga On's characterisation. Very little is left to chance.

And so, if you keep everything I've said about intent and characters in mind, and I ask you to explain the intent behind this one, singular shot, can you do so without making it gay?

I'm not joking when I say that this scene, right here, was the one that definitively made me go "oh fuck, this is gay gay."

Because in most others — if not all — I can find that safe surface-level intent which means that the people behind this drama can claim plausible deniability. Of course it's not gay! Look at this perfectly reasonable, heterosexual intent!

Except this one.

There's no explanation for this. Ga On has no reason to look this jealous unless his jealousy is the main intent behind this shot. There just isn't. And it's only made worse by his huff and the way he clenches his jaw a couple of seconds later. Not even the argument that Sun Ah is their enemy so letting her fix Yo Han's tie might be dangerous can justify this, since that's not a look of concern or alarm — that's jealousy.

The intent is jealousy. Plain and simple.

And that's why intent is important. Because, if push came to shove, the intent behind this one, singular screenshot could, theoretically, be the only evidence you need if you wanted to defend a queer reading of this drama.

Because there is, quite frankly — in my humble opinion as the fandom treasure — no other way to explain the look on his face in a drama this meticulous and obsessed with details.

In this scene, unlike all the others, the queerness isn't just in the presentation anymore — it's in both the intent and presentation.

So, if you want the scene that says "this shit's gay, fam"?

This is the one.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

#Amethystina Replies #Anonymous #Dear LORD I went off on a tangent here #Sorry about that #But I also stand by it #That screenshot of Ga On keeps me up at night #Because THE INTENT #TELL ME WHAT THE INTENT IS #By the way #I feel a need to point out that I don't actually NEED Yo Han and Ga On to be canon #But it drives me ABSOLUTELY INSANE that some of these scenes exist #Because now they're just messing with me and my hyper-analytical mind #... filed under things going on inside my head I guess #It's never quiet or boring #That's for sure

29 notes · View notes

thirddoctor · 10 months

Note

People saying 12 is too mean and no fun and whatever else have never seen The Return of Doctor Mysterio in which he brings sushi along to a heist in case he’s bored and also holds babies and comforts small children and somehow pulls a full glass of water out of his pocket. man would be great trapped in an elevator. you’d leave that elevator with a new bestie and lots of little snacks.

exactly!!

#Replies #clockworkouroboros #Ranger shut up about Doctor Who #also he was canonically able to last 4 billion years stuck in a castle dying over and over so I think he'd be okay in a lift for a few hour #*hours #I mean he'd complain a bit but who wouldn't

90 notes · View notes

crimeronan · 1 month

Note

Hunter notices Amity is really distressed about that new kid Odalia somehow has, so he eventually suggests kidnapping because Odalia sucks as a parent and why not? Amity is still in her bloodline deduction state of mind so she blurts out that people will then make the awful mistake of assuming Grimwalker Alador is THEIR child, which is the wrong thing to say because for Hunter that's hilarious and even more reason to go kidnap him.

i love the shitpost horror-comedy universe where lumiter just keep acquiring grimwalker babies that look like them. in increasingly stupid & ill-conceived ways. between luzwalker and aladorwalker anyone who knows the three of them is like damn hunter why does the universe let you have unprotected sex with Two girlfriends. while hunter is out here like. ok. i have literally never even Attempted to touch either of these women in my life. and have no idea What The Actual Fuck is going on. however i Will commit to the bit if prompted.

#IT'S SO STUPID. none of this is canon and i rarely get invested in kid AUs but i DO love kid AUs that are really fucking funny.#too many grimwalkers! a timeline about how nobody will stop fucking making grimwalkers #also eternally compelled by a hunter who will just roll with anything. his levels of not giving a fuck are off the charts #i think canon hunter cares a whole lot about everything all the time forever. however #AU hunter has all his emotional eggs in like 3 baskets & anything outside of that is just a fun playground. why would he care what #anyone thinks of him. people have been making the wrong assumptions about him and luz for as long as he can remember #if being assumed to be someone's boyfriend protects them and/or furthers a very funny rivalry then sure. he'll have fun with it #AU hunter is the kind of friend every dyke needs when they go to non-queer bars. 'do you want me to kill that guy for you'#replies #toh #princess luz au #and who is that other witch #horrible mindscape trauma pals #shitty idiot repression gang

25 notes · View notes

alectoperdita · 8 months

Note

18 for the put that guy in a situation asks??

From Put That Guy in a Situation(TM) Ask Game

18. Possession/Mind control

content warning: implied non-con at the end

Read on AO3

---

Jounouchi was quiet. Eerily so.

The only time Kaiba had seen the deadbeat shut his trap for this long, it was when his breathing stopped after Ra struck him. But Jounouchi remained upright, rigid as stone, his eyes wide open but distant and glazed.

The expression reminded Kaiba of another incident, the one at the docks involving chains, bombs, a hostage with a cyanide pill clenched between her teeth, and supposed mind control.

Kaiba shifted, once again becoming aware of the heavy weight within his white-knuckled grip. The Millennium Rod—that was what Yugi called it. It was the very same trinket Malik had waved around throughout the Battle City finals.

All Kaiba knew was it was an eyesore, just like the gaudy piece his rival perpetually wore around his neck. Kaiba wanted nothing to do with it. He would've been content to continue to ignore its existence if it didn't keep turning up among his belongings like a bad penny.

He was anything but amused to open his office drawer and find it sitting inside. He returned it the same evening, threatening Yugi over the unfunny prank. The second time it turned up inside his briefcase, he walked out five minutes before his next meeting, went down to the Turtle Game Store, and basically chucked the Rod at Yugi's head. And the third time, after appearing on his bedside table after an uneasy night of tossing and turning, Kaiba was ready to commit murder.

Yugi claimed no responsibility for one second, before switching gears and babbling some nonsense about destiny and past lives. And whatever Kaiba might think of Yugi's delusions, he never took his rival for a liar. So Kaiba held onto it, reluctantly, and shoved it deep into a desk drawer to bury it.

At least it stopped actively haunting him afterward.

But his troubles didn't end there. No. More turned up in his office one early morning, as the sun barely peeked over the horizon to herald a new day. Kaiba had been driven from his bed by vague and amorphous dreams he couldn't put a name to, only to discover an intruder rummaging through his things.

"What are you doing here?" growled Kaiba, slamming the door behind him.

Swearing, Jounouchi jumped, swearing as he spun to face him. Of course, he was a shitty thief on top of being a third-rate duelist. Nor should it surprise Kaiba when he bared his teeth without a hint of shame and snarled, "Helping Yugi get back what's his!"

After issuing the bold declaration, he yanked his hand out of Kaiba's drawer and hefted the Millennium Rod into the air.

"You think I want that miserable trinket?" hissed Kaiba. His head pulsed. From a migraine. From sleep deprivation. From a gradually building rage. "I was this close to stapling it to his forehead so it can't leave him like his stupid Puzzle."

Jounouchi's eyes narrowed. "You're lying. Yugi might believe you, but I know better. You stole it!"

Stole—as if Kaiba ever needed to stoop so low. Kaiba wanted nothing more than to be rid of the nuisance—both the Rod and Jounouchi. But he'd be damned if he overlooked Jounouchi's trespassing.

"That's rich. Considering you're the one caught stealing red-handed. I'm calling the police. We'll see who they believe."

He crossed the room in a few long strides. He reached directly for the phone on his desk.

"Stop!" exclaimed Jounouchi.

Perhaps the fear of law enforcement sent him into a blind panic, because he took a swing at Kaiba with the Rod.

Kaiba caught it with his hand. The sharp blades protruding from the specter's head dug into his palm, threatening to break skin. Did Jounouchi know about the blade hidden within the shaft? Was that what he'd try next?

Pain bloomed in his head and radiated down the arm holding the rounded end of the Rod.

"Let go!" he roared.

The deadbeat dropped it like it was hot coal. "What the hell?"

Kaiba felt it too. Underneath the pain, an electric sensation zipped through him, scorching his nerve endings. It was neither pain nor pleasure.

"Shit, did you do that?" asked Jounouchi. "Can you use—"

"Shut up," ordered Kaiba.

Miraculously, Jounouchi did. His mouth immediately snapped shut with an audible click. He opened his mouth to try again.

Kaiba denied him. "Not another word out of you."

Jounouchi choked while his throat convulsed, trying to spit words without success. His eyes darted wildly, terror growing in their amber depths as they frantically searched Kaiba's face.

Jounouchi didn't fear him. He despised Kaiba. He insulted him. On nauseating occasions, Jounouchi even pitied him. But he had never been afraid of Kaiba.

Until now.

A heady rush shot straight to Kaiba's hind-brain. Suddenly, he understood why people took drugs. He rearranged his grip on the Rod and tapped Jounouchi's clavicles with a sharp wing.

"Here, I thought nothing'd ever stop your yapping," he laughed. "This just proves what you need is a shock collar."

Rage blanketed Jounouchi's face. Since he could no longer express it verbally, he resorted to other means. Somehow, Kaiba already knew his intentions before he moved a single muscle. And he put an end to it as swiftly with a single command.

"Stop."

Stop moving. Stop fighting. Stop defying Kaiba.

Jounouchi froze. His defiance drained like blood from a slaughtered cow. His expression slackened, his eyebrows and mouth unfurling. As if a light snuffed out, his eyes went as blank as his face.

Captivated, Kaiba had stared at him ever since. At first, he wondered if this was part of an extended prank. To trick him into believing the Rod's power and how he could wield it. But as the minutes ticked on, Jounouchi stayed rooted to his spot without an errant twitch of his muscles, breathing slowly but steadily as if in a trance.

Kaiba was so clear-headed. His headache had receded. What remained behind was a deep-rooted instinct, the knowledge to bend Jounouchi's will to his whim.

Speaking out loud wasn't necessary. But it gave him a rush to issue the command verbally. "Down."

Gracelessly, Jounouchi dropped to his knees. A pulse of something other than power rushed through Kaiba's veins.

"Look at me," he said as his breath grew ragged.

Jounouchi obediently tilted his face up. He held it at the perfect angle so the sun's rays, streaming through the floor-to-ceiling windows, highlighted his bleached locks, brown eyes, and full lips.

He was quiet, and the storm raging inside Kaiba's head for the recent weeks dissipated too.

Without releasing the Rod, Kaiba cupped Jounouchi's jaw, feeling the faint scruff of a hasty shave job. Jounouchi didn't fight him or try to throw off his touch. But he didn't lean into it either. Right now, he was no different from a doll, and dolls didn't react. They didn't want. They were merely expected to sit there and be pretty.

Kaiba pressed his thumb to the corner of Jounouchi's mouth, squeezing until it parted. Jounouchi's wet tongue grazed against his finger pad, warm but still.

He wanted him to suck. This time, Kaiba didn't have to speak aloud before he felt the answering wet suction. Jounouchi's lips closed tightly around his thumb, his cheeks hollowing as he obeyed.

Docile was an unexpectedly good look on Jounouchi. If nothing else, it was a rarity few people saw.

Before he knew it, his hand settled over his fly. His groin throbbed each time Jounouchi sucked. The rhythm was as regular and robotic as a toy, no stuttering and no mistakes.

Perfect.

Kaiba could have this and more—a secret desire not even he wanted to admit to himself. The forbidden fruit had fallen right at his feet. His sins were innumerable. His ledger ran red. So what was one more?

"Open."

Read other prompt fill ficlets here

#yugioh #puppyshipping #violetshipping #kaijou #replies #mysandwichranaway #my fanfiction #writing prompts #you're warned; this is not a fluffy ficlet #also it's not as dark as I could've gone soo...#mostly went with manga characterization for this one even though it makes no canon sense timeline-wise #i hope you like if you give it a read #feeling mega nervous about the implied non-con but it's also kinda built into the prompt #don't look at me 🙈

55 notes · View notes