#and I love your take on jgy’s face

[blogauroragloryme]

Yesterday I was scrolling through Pinterest and stumbled into many fan art depicting Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling. JC taking care of JL as a month old baby ,then as a toddler,etc etc...

It reminded me that we never really give much credit to JC for raising JL. I mean sure JGY also played a part , but JC's affection and concern for JL is unbeatable. There was this fanart where JC is actually holding a very tiny JL , trying to figure out how to feed him , then how to change his clothes and all the things that involves taking care of a newborn. The expressions depicted in JC's face just made me ache. I mean just imagine the pain of losing his sister, brother in law and WY(cmon I know despite of JC's love and hate relationship with WY, there definitely must be a part in his heart that must be aching) fresh in his mind , having to take care of a new born , which you have zero idea about. You have to build your sect ,you don't have anyone else to rely on. You can't show your weakness to anyone else. Even if you are damn tired , almost near a mental breakdown,you cannot falter ,you have a nephew and he doesn't have anyone else but you as a family. I would like to believe many a times when JC would be extremely tired and feeling hopeless,JL must be a source of his motivation to keep on.

(I can see a bit of parallelism here with LQR where both of them were young(baby of the house 🤭)and thrusted the responsibility of taking care of their respective nephews. They're not married,but with hit and trial,they are able to raise their nephews to be fine young men.)

Just imagining what would JC have taught JL for his first word. Would he insist that JL learn Mother first before anything. Imagining JC telling a toddler JL about how his parents were ,his mother ,his father,his grandmother and grandfather and about his Da-jiu(only till the time JL doesn't understand as soon as he would grow up ,he would stop telling JL about how the three of them used to enjoy Lotus pier).

And JL eventually learning to call Jiujiu.When JC and JL had their first fight how JC must have felt? Like he's been a strict person like his mother and how certain traits of his mother can be reflected in his upbringing of JL? And when JL got his first scrape after falling down,how worried JC must be? Ok there are so many what if's and possibilities to think about...

But I just wanted to mention that JC tried his very best to raise his nephew. Parenting can always have good and bad , that's what we can see ,but both of them share a loving bond.

I really wanted to write this appreciation post for JC. I know JC has committed horrible mistakes, which are inexcusable ,but still some fans are really very harsh in criticizing him. As much as I love WY ,I won't deny that in some instances I even fault WY ,for not understanding the bigger picture. For me the simple conclusion is that both of them had pride and anger and the result was disastrous. Some are more to blame for their actions,some are less,but the mistake was on both of their part's.

So yes he's a Sour purple grape lol ,but I really hope post canon,him and WY are able to find some semblance and common footing.

[veliseraptor]

rereading the villainous friends extra and

Xue Yang was about to split his sides laughing. "You should've gotten a mirror and looked at your face. That smile was nasty. It was so fucking fake I could have thrown up."

Jin Guangyao snorted. "What do you know, you little delinquent? One has to smile, no matter how fake, no matter how disgusting it is."

Xue Yang lazily replied, "You were asking for it. If anyone dared say I was raised by a whore, first I'd find his mom, fuck her a couple hundred ties, then drag her out and throw her into a whorehouse for others to fuck as well. Then we'd see which one of us was really raised by a whore. Simple."

Jin Guangyao laughed as well. "I certainly don't have such refined hobbies."

"You don't, but I do. I don't mind taking care of it for you. Just let me know, and I can go fuck them for you, hahahaha..."

Jin Guangyao said, "No thanks. Save your energy, Xue-gongzi."

head buzzing full of thoughts mostly:

I will never not love the fact that Jin Guangyao calls him "Xue-gongzi." do you think anyone else does that because I don't and I think Xue Yang finds it hilarious and also kind of adorable (and I think Jin Guangyao is both sincere and also knows Xue Yang finds it funny)

I feel like sometimes I see fellow Jin Guangyao apologists talking about Jin Guangyao like...just tolerating Xue Yang or dealing with him because his father told him to, and the thing I love about their dynamic so much is actually that it seems like Jin Guangyao is genuinely, ruefully fond of him

like here, Jin Guangyao has just had a very nasty experience that we know later on is what finally pushes him over the edge w/r/t Jin Guangshan, and Xue Yang makes Jin Guangyao laugh. by being crass and absolutely kind of gross, but Jin Guangyao's understated verbal reaction ("I certainly don't have such refined hobbies" "save your energy, Xue-gongzi") read to me as teasing.

also between this and Xue Yang's cutting out He Su's tongue after he insults Jin Guangyao too far earlier: Xue Yang's love language is horrific violence. other people will say "do you want me to kill them for you" but Xue Yang will actually do it and be very proud of himself about it.

anyway. just some feelings about them again and I feel like I'm failing to verbalize them appropriately. maybe I should go try to write that "jgy teaching xy to read" fic now

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i fell in love with jin guangyao when he threw his hands up (metaphorically) at nie mingjue during the stair debacle and went "wow you really Cannot understand me. fine. i tried. skill issue"!! i thought it was so cool how neatly he dual-wielded justified terror, justified snark, and a sincere attempt at making himself understood. i guess that's triple-wielding, actually, but you get it

you’re right, i do get it, i get it so much. 🤝🤝🤝 that moment turned me into the unhinged jgy stan i am today.

Jin GuangYao sighed, “Brother, it really was my father’s orders. I couldn’t refuse. Now, if you want me to take care of Xue Yang, what would I say to him?”

Nie MingJue, “There’s no need for explanations. Come back to me with Xue Yang’s head in your hand.”

Jin GuangYao still wanted to speak, but Nie MingJue had already lost all patience, “Meng Yao, don’t speak such pretentious words in front of me. Your whole thing stopped working on me since a long time ago!”

Within a second, a few degrees of unease flashed over Jin GuangYao’s face, as though someone with an unmentionable illness was suddenly exposed in the public. There was nowhere for him to hide.

He spoke, “My whole thing? Which whole thing? Brother, you’ve always yelled at me for calculating people and being too dishonorable. You say that you’re a proud, righteous person, that you aren’t afraid of anything, that propen men shouldn’t need to play with schemes. That’s fine. Your background is noble and your cultivation is high. But what about me? Am I the same as you? First, my cultivation isn’t as firm as yours. Ever since I was born, has anyone taught me? And second, I have no prominent background. Do you think that I’m in a steady position, here at the LanlingJin Sect? Do you think that I can rise into power the moment Jin ZiXuan dies? Jin GuangShan would rather bring another illegitimate child back than want me to succeed him! You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I’m afraid of everything, even other people! He whose stomach is full believes not him who is starving.”

EXR translation, pg 498 & 499

then comes the part of the text where imo jgy is 100% aware of the fact that nmj is going to hear his words and choose the worst faith interpretation of them. this feels like one last moment to give nmj a chance to prove him wrong about what he knows inevitably is about to happen, and it has been quoted and discussed so many times that i don’t think i need to do so again. but i will add this moment too, because i don’t think jgy gets enough credit for the brutal, savage humour in this line, after he gets kicked down the stairs:

Jin GuangYao only landed after rolling down more than fifty steps. He didn’t even stay on the ground for long before crawling up. With a wave of his hand, he sent away the servants and disciples who surrounded him. Dusting off his robes, he slowly raised his head to look at Nie MingJue. His eyes were quite calm, almost indifferent. Just as Nie MingJue unsheathed his saber, Lan XiChen happened to leave the palace to see what was going on, concerned after having waited for long. Seeing the situation before him, he unsheathed Shuoyue as well, “What happened, this time?”

Jin GuangYao, “Nothing. Brother, thank you for your advice.”

EXR translation, pg 500

rating: siiiiiiiiick

[robininthelabyrinth]

Nie Mingjue the musical prodigy. Honestly anything with this idea, 3zun the cultivation world's 1st ever boy band? Secretly has mastered every instrument ever? (in canon you could have it play out where he knew at first that JGY was trying to kill him and kept hinting at it to LXC subtly but when LXC continued on blissfully oblivious NMJ assumed it was on purpose and that everyone was trying to kill him, and at that point since he was so close to qi deviation anyway better to die quick and fast then have NHS live through the long, drawn-out death their father had.)

“All right, I give in,” Nie Mingjue said after the third time Jin Guangyao played him the Song of Turmoil. “What does it do?”

“What do you mean, da-ge?” Jin Guangyao asked, though his heart rate subtly increased – he was pretty sure he’d covered his tracks with the combined song well enough that Nie Mingjue wouldn’t notice it, but there was always a possibility that something might have gone wrong. He had a plan for that, too: a whole list of excuses, explanations. He didn’t really understand what Lan Xichen had taught him, it was all his incompetence, etc.

“The song,” Nie Mingjue clarified, and there it was – he knew. Somehow or another, he knew. “It’s obviously different from the one Lan Xichen plays. What does your version do?”

“Da-ge, I’m sorry,” Jin Guangyao said. “If I’ve somehow gotten something wrong –”

“No, no, don’t, don’t start with that,” Nie Mingjue interrupted. “Do you think I’m an idiot? My sect doesn’t cultivate with music, and the only musical education I’ve ever received was during the one season I spent with the Lan sect, but I did learn something. Actually, Teacher Lan even said I was something of a prodigy…but either way, I’m very well aware that you don’t accidentally achieve effects with musical cultivation. If you get something wrong in error, it simply doesn’t work at all. It doesn’t create a new effect.”

Jin Guangyao was starting to feel a cold sweat on his back. Damnit, Lan Xichen had told him about Nie Mingjue’s summer at the Lan sect, and Nie Mingjue had mentioned it here and there, too – he’d just assumed that Nie Mingjue had been a prodigy at learning cultivation or rules or whatever, not music.

“Well?” Nie Mingjue prompted. “Don’t make me have to ask Xichen.”

That would be worse.

No, better to get ahead of the accusations now.

Jin Guangyao summoned tears into his eyes. “Da-ge, I’m sorry,” he said, trying for his best facsimile of sincerity. “If I’d had any choice in the matter, I wouldn’t have done it…”

“Oh, is it offensive? Really?” Nie Mingjue didn’t look as angry as Jin Guangyao thought he’d be. “Does it work slow or fast?”

Jin Guangyao hesitated. “…are you not angry?”

“That you were trying to kill me despite swearing brotherhood to me? I’m furious.” Nie Mingjue smiled, and it was as cold as anything Jin Guangyao had ever seen on Wen Ruohan’s face. “The only reason I haven’t pulled out Baxia and dismembered you this very second is because I, too, swore an oath of brotherhood to you, and I don’t break those oaths lightly…though if you kept poisoning me, I assume I’d eventually go mad enough to think that it was a valid option. Your plan was that it would look like a qi deviation, I assume?”

Jin Guangyao hesitated. Nie Mingjue took that as confirmation. “You’re not the first one to think of that,” he remarked. “But you’re going to be the last, my brother. Now tell me: does it work slow or fast? Or, perhaps more relevantly: how long would it take for this lovely little poison of yours to work if you poured it into your father’s ear instead of mine..?”

[fincalinde]

lwj, for the meme?

Not the Lan bro I was expecting but here goes!

a song that reminds me of them

This doesn't remind me of him because I wouldn't want to ruin it for myself, but I can imagine a sad montage of interregnum LWJ set to I Am Stretched On Your Grave. Anyway, my proper answer is Frostrósir by Eivør. It's in Faroese, which I do not speak, but I pinched something from here:

Each sigh from a lonely soul Every word that was formed without sound Now seems like a frostbitten affair Dressed in the guise of lifeless flowers

what they smell like

We have an answer to this in canon and it's sandalwood, so I don't have much to add.

an otp

I mean, it is the central point of the novel. But even aside from that, LWJ is consistently only ever interested in WWX. I'm not saying he shouldn't be interpreted as gay, but I am saying that even if he is gay it's secondary to his actual sexual identity which is Weiyingsexual. I'm not treading any new ground here.

Personally I don't find Wangxian interesting, but I at least believe they love each other and are compatible in the sense that they are both selfish in slightly different ways that mesh well for their own private universe. Not so great for others in their orbit, but part of that is authorial fiat so I try to be fair about what I hold against them.

I don't think CQL successfully executed the changes it made to Wangxian in having them click and partner up from the beginning, but I do think it was necessary to at least attempt to rebalance the relationship. In MDZS, WWX genuinely does not reciprocate LWJ's feelings in his first life beyond a very deeply buried and not particularly inevitable spark. His first life is really centred on his relationships with JC and JYL and they are the tragic 'romance' (in the traditional sense). LWJ only gets upgraded during the second life. Kind of awkward to do your sweeping romance if it isn't a romance in the 35+ episodes of flashbacks, so I don't blame them for trying. And I do like the Colin Firth vibes WYB brought to his LWJ.

a notp

Aside from not finding the idea of LWJ with anyone else convincing, let me take the opportunity to pettily sideswipe at Chengxian and shoving LWJ in to make it what? Wangchengxian? Is that what it's called? Either way, nooooooo thank you. You can't get much more fraternal than WWX and JC's idiot bickering, and even if they weren't such classic stupid boys together, JC and LWJ loathe one another with the kind of loathing that does not give way to a rendition of I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face. (Incidentally, in the original stage version Eliza walks out on Higgins never to return, and it is awesome.)

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Obviously it's his relationship with LXC (and by extension LQR?). Just absolutely fascinating. Their rapport is very sweet, as is LXC's protectiveness and gentle trolling. LWJ is not a particularly good didi, but LXC both doesn't notice and doesn't mind.

Actually, someone once made a meme for me in relation to this, let me dust it off and drag it out:

More seriously, though he was also raised with harsh discipline, in comparative terms LWJ is the spoilt baby of the family. As is often the result when we encounter morally rigid characters in MDZS, he is also in many respects hypocritical. Clearly I have a lot of negative things to say about him as a brother to LXC, but I'm not interested in demonising him and what's really interesting about it is that by and large this uneven dynamic works for the Twin Jades. Right up until it doesn't.

When LXC really needs LWJ to come through for him, he just doesn't. I'm not even talking about LWJ's behaviour leading up to and during the Temple, which is objectionable in the sense that he refuses to give JGY the benefit of the doubt that LXC extends to WWX. No, I'm talking about the fact that he bods off for literal months after LXC has just been through the worst experience of his life and lost his closest friend and partner. And I don't want to hear it about LXC being the elder and having a responsibility to take care of LWJ. LWJ owes consideration to his big brother and clan leader, even if that consideration might take a different form.

Here's a thought experiment. After WWX's first death, when LWJ has been whipped 33 times by the discipline whip and dragged himself to rescue LSZ and branded himself in drunken grief, can you imagine LXC bodding off for three months without a word to have picnics with JGY? It's inconceivable isn't it.

I didn't intend for this section to become a hit piece on LWJ and he obviously does love his brother, but in terms of actions it is somewhat of a one way street. The fact that LXC has no other expectations doesn't protect LWJ from my croc-hatted judgement face.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Righteous LWJ. Oh, please. In MDZS, righteousness goes hand in hand with hypocrisy, and though I doubt MXTX the human being intended LWJ to be read as thoroughly selfish, the (translation of) the text she wrote is a depiction of a profoundly selfish man. And that's not a bad thing, because his selfishness coupled with the occasions when he is genuinely altruistic makes him more interesting than if he really were a moralising ice cube with a ribbon tied around it.

the position they sleep in

Official Lan Position, and postcanon I probably don't want to know.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

I'm going to be lazy and suggest X-Men AU again just because his secondary power would definitely be organic diamond form like Emma Frost. I don't think he'd also be a telepath, but the idea of that is funny because he could read WWX's mind and know for certain that WWX isn't (currently) into him. But as a serious answer, organic diamond form as a secondary power and then primary power the same as Alison Blaire. I see no reason why his mutant name wouldn't be Dazzler too.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I think he only has like one outfit. I'm sorry, I'm not cool enough to be able to distinguish between different varieties of plain white robes. In CQL I prefer first life LWJ because they put that massive ornament on second life LWJ's head to make him look older and taller but actually they created an unfortunate perspective effect where he just looks even shorter.

[lansplaining]

Why did JGY make trouble for Jim Zixuan on the night Wen Ning killed him by accident? I didn’t understand that part of the novel/cql.

i've talked about this before, but a) I can't find it because tumblr and b) I'm always really excited to talk about it again, because clarifying this moment really made such a huge difference in my understanding of JGY's character. also as soon as i started really digging in, it, uh, became a huge post. sorry.

so my initial instinct was to draw a really sharp delineation between CQL and MDZS, because the second flautist completely changes the tenor of the event. and to a certain extent, it does! CQL JGY had a reasonable expectation that JZX would show up and get killed, because he knew the second flautist could take control of Wen Ning, or at the very least cause things to totally go to hell, hopefully in a way that also resulted in Wei Wuxian being killed. but when it comes to the question of motivation, the two are actually way more aligned than I realized-- it’s simply a case of CQL JGY directing his feelings in a more active (”villainous”) way. 

so, CQL first. when Lan Xichen asks if he “singlehandedly” arranged for Jin Zixuan to die, he says (from the Netflix subs), “It’s true I didn’t run into him by accident.” WWX demands details, and we get a flashback to JGY manipulating Zixuan into going after Jin Zixun. I guess we can assume he had a backup plan for getting him there if this very light-touch tactic didn’t work, but it does seem worth noting that he doesn’t even begin to explicitly suggest that Jin Zixuan should follow-- it’s really an amazing display of how JGY has gotten to know and understand Zixuan a million times better than Zixuan (who literally suggests that JGY should have tried to stop Zixun...... Zixuan please have you observed your family dynamics at all) has bothered to get to know JGY. Then we cut to Su Mishan playing the flute as JGY plays the guqin (remote control evil music??) and the implication seems to be that ‘kill Zixuan’ was directly part of the musical instruction Wen Ning received. 

okay, so, as Jin Ling immediately asks (and can we give props to the mix of anger and sadness and disbelief and betrayal of the very obvious love and trust he has in JGY in his performance!!!)-- why? 

JGY (after tearfully reaching for Jin Ling’s face and then recoiling!!! this scene makes me crazy!!!!) replies: “Why? A-Ling. Could you please tell me why? Tell me. Why do I put a smile on my face for everyone, yet I won’t necessarily receive the lowest form of respect in return while your father, who was arrogant and self-important, was sought after by people? Can you tell me why, even though we shared the same father, your dad could spend the day at home at leisure, with the love of his life and playing with his child, while I had to be deployed by my father by blood to do all the dirty work without even getting the slightest appreciation? Why is it that even though we were born on the same day, Jin Guangshan could host a grand banquet for one son and meanwhile, watch with his own eyes how his subordinate kicked his other son down the Carp Tower? He asked his man to kick me down the Carp Tower from the top of the stairs to the very end. A-Ling, now you tell me, why did all these things happen to me?

I believe this is our first time learning this story from JGY’s own mouth, and the first time we see the flashback of him actually being kicked down the stairs while JGS looks on. 

He concludes: “It is not that I do not want to be a good man. To this father of mine, I once had hopes as well. In the past, as long as it was his command, no matter if it was to set Wei Wuxian up or to protect Xue Yang, no matter how foolish it was, how much hatred I would get, I would obey without hesitation. A-Ling, do you know what it was that made me lose hope completely? It wasn’t that in his eyes I was less than nothing to him when compared to Jin Zixuan, or that he took back Mo Xuanyu, or that he wouldn’t even let me hold you, or that he tried every possible way to make me a mere figurehead.” 

by this point, he’s totally forgotten about JZX and we’re basically back onto why he killed JGS.

as for MDZS! from the ExR translation because that's uh the screencap I have saved from last time lol

then, WWX asks why, if that’s the case, he had to kill JZX, and JGY gives a sassy reply that basically dodges the question. 

so, in typical JGY fashion in this scene, he starts out with the pettiest and most uncharitable interpretation of his own actions, the one he seems to expect people will most readily accept and jump to. but as he goes on, it gets a little more complex. 

the thing that he barely touches in either version but is very distinctly present-- and that totally poleaxed me the first time I noticed it-- is that Jin Guangshan had ordered him to kill Wei Wuxian. and his very reasonable response to this is, 'okay, but literally how???' 

the CQL version hammers home way more than MDZS, because of where and how it reveals information, that JGY is undoubtedly fueled by envy and resentment of JZX and the fact that he has the life JGY feels like he deserved. like MDZS, this bleeds into thinking about his dad, and MDZS ultimately lays it out for us (if we believe that line of narration) that it was really about hating JGS and not Zixuan at all. i think CQL’s arrangement of information nudges things back a little more to the envy argument, but it does so in a way where we’re given new, sympathetic information about JGY all in a rush, and shown it in flashback so that it can really actively hit. and I think the reactions we get from the characters who hear this are kind of sympathetic! they’re clearly extremely conflicted about this whole situation, but no one is reacting with outright disbelief or disgust. i think this works well in the world with a second flautist (my feelings about that plot device are for a different time, but you can guess, I’m sure)-- more active resentment of Zixuan specifically leads to him deciding more actively to murder Zixuan, not just try and make life hard for him in a way that will likely lead to violence, but not inevitably death. 

so this is how I interpret JGY's thought process in the moment he sent Zixuan to follow Wei Wuxian: he has been ordered to kill WWX, and presumably told to use his journey to or time at Koi Tower for the 100 Days Ceremony to do it. JGY recognizes that this is probably impossible, and definitely impossible without causing massive collateral damage. his resentment of Jin Zixuan hits a boiling point at this-- on top of everything else, their father is happy to basically send JGY to his death to attempt this assassination while JZX gets to happily plan a party for his baby and not think about these things at all. he thinks, “wouldn't it be nice if JZX had to deal with these problems for once,” and decides “fuck it, let's see what happens” (or, in CQL, “fuck it, let’s get rid of him”). in MDZS, he has no way of knowing that JZX or indeed anyone else would be killed, though I think he's not so naive as to think that violence isn't a likely outcome-- though one has to say that the form of violence that did take place was pretty unexpected to everyone involved! Zixuan’s a strong cultivator, he could have survived most normal fights, probably even against a normal Wen Ning. but as an active fratricide attempt, it's way too contingent and uncontrolled. 

in MDZS, at the end of the day, I think that JGY was just really angry, wanted some petty revenge, and decided to see what would happen if JZX was in his place for once. the tenor in CQL is only slightly different: he actively chooses to try and get Zixuan killed, but the emotional push is the same, and I do think is likewisesomething that just comes together in the moment from a combination of the immediate problem (I’m meant to kill WWX before he gets here) and immediate circumstances (fuck JZX and his nice little baby shower while I have to assassinate the most powerful cultivator in the world). 

[poorlittleyaoyao]

I don't know if you know, but the irony of wnxg is that they don't share with each others past experiences. It's not extremely important, but sharing is part of a relationship?? It's lxc who says to wwx about how lwj suffered for their mother's death; it's always lxc who reveals to wwx how lwj got 33 strikes. Instead, not having others, lwj doesn't know nothing about wwx past, only few rumors. It's me, I am boring, but sharing things with your partner, is important?? How are they gonna comunicate with lxc in seclusion?

Obv that's my opinion and mxtx did do a great job! I am still there, two years after, screaming about jl, jc, wq and jgy! She had a lot of plot, so maybe she couldn’t explore the romance properly!

This is a good point that I hadn't considered! It made me reflect on how much characters reveal in general about their own stories outside of undergoing Empathy, and the answer is... not many! JGY notably reveals his own experiences under duress at Guanyin Temple, but he still doesn't talk about his life prior to being kicked down the stairs in any detail; the flashback showing his and MS's abuse in the brothel comes via WWX doing Empathy with Anxin's ghost. Other than that, all the major revelations one character are told by someone else. Off the top of my head, we have WN (and not WWX) revealing the core transfer, LXC (and not MY) revealing that MY was a double agent, and Bicao (and not Madame Qin, QS, or JGY) revealing that JGY and QS were half-siblings. And even the subjects of Empathy aren't telling their stories so much as letting WWX come along for a ride in their memories.

So on the one hand, this is an established trend in the novel. On the other hand, given the sheer amount of TIME we spend on Wangxian Romance Content, it's quite strange that our two leads tell each other so little about themselves! I would find Wangxian much more interesting if they replaced even just some of the repetitive "one character initiates physical intimacy when the other character won't remember it later" scenes with actual conversations about their experiences and who they are as people. It hits LWJ especially hard, I think, because at least we as an audience know what's going on with WWX since he's our viewpoint character. For LWJ, we're dependent on what WWX knows or observes, which is deliberately lacking.

I disagree that MXTX simply didn't have time/space to fit that in alongside everything else, because CQL manages to do silly hijinks and personal revelations in THE SAME SCENE. Episode 6 opens with LWJ catching the One Braincell Trio drinking together. WWX makes LWJ drink wine, and we get a mini version of goofy Drunji shenanigans... but WWX also learns about the Lan forehead ribbons (which will be relevant later in the same episode), and LWJ and WWX learn that both have lost their parents. LWJ doesn't elaborate beyond "I don't have a mother," but his sad, faraway little face makes plain how keenly he feels about it. WWX notices, and he confesses to LWJ that he can barely remember his parents beyond the fragmented memory of riding a donkey. (He also tells him about the dogs!)

It's a lovely little moment, and it's what first had me going "aww🥺" about the two of them. (Still does, honestly! I know I'm salty on here a lot, but I genuinely do love Drama Wangxian when I'm actively watching the show and am away from fandom; I only wish they'd been able to be expressly romantic with it.) I was definitely entertained by them speedrunning fanfic tropes in the Cloud Recesses episodes, but I would have tired of them if that was all their interactions were. That tiny bit of genuine bonding is what made me interested in learning more about them both and invested in seeing how their relationship developed.

And the entire sequence is just 5 minutes out of one 45-minute episode! It doesn't take much, and the written equivalent was something I sorely missed in the two volumes of the novel I read.

[thebiscuiteternal]

would nmj's fate change in the larger age gap au? with the changes in relationships and political dynamics, i just can't see jgy finding it as easy to decide to kill him in this version.

I think it would, for a number of reasons.

First and foremost, no matter which version of canon you use, Nie Huaisang is going to push the "ge" button in the back of Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao's brain hard. I wrote a little snippet of them meeting on Discord using the non-CQL setting

Please imagine that during Sunshot in the greater-age-gap Nies timeline, something comes up at the Unclean Realms and since Mingjue can't leave the battlefield for whatever reason, he asks newly-minted 18yo aide-de-camp Meng Yao to go handle it.

So Meng Yao goes to the Unclean Realms and is met at the gate by a 10/11 yo with a grumpy expression.

"You're not Da-ge," he says, clearly disappointed.

Oh, this is the Sang-di that his sect leader is always talking about.

He's adorable.

Meng Yao smiles. "Sorry, but even your brother can't be in two places at once. This one is Meng Yao; his assistant."

Nie Huaisang brightens up just a little. "Oh! The really smart one!"

(Zongzhu actually said that in his letters home? Meng Yao's a little touched.)

Huaisang takes him to meet the supply overseers who needed assistance, but sticks around instead of going back to whatever he'd been doing.

Meng Yao catches the boy watching him a couple of times, but every time, Huaisang quickly looks away, face red.

They don't talk about it before Meng Yao leaves, crisis averted.

Cute little creechur! Who clearly thinks he's cool despite growing up around all these powerful cultivators! Meng Yao is smitten.

And then add in the fact that Mingjue and Huaisang's relationship is much more stable, with it being evident to anyone with eyes that they're each other's foundation, and Jin Guangyao would have a much harder time justifying the damage to a Huaisang that killing Mingjue would do.

Especially since, if I haven't fucked up my own timeline, he would be all of fourteen when his big brother died and he got thrown into an inheritance crisis. Yikes.

Of course, there's also another option.

Supposing instead that Jin Guangshan were to go the route that Nie Mingjue dreads the most, the very reason he'd held off on making Huaisang his heir to begin with: he is very young and very vulnerable and it would do a lot of damage to sect morale if anything were to happen to him.

Suppose Jin Guangshan decides the best way to remove Nie Mingjue from being a pest politically is to get rid of Huaisang.

Now, I've had a story where Jin Guangyao goes through with it; most of you have seen that.

But again, it's much harder to justify killing a 14yo than it is to kill a 20-23yo, especially one that clearly loves you.

Angsty soul-searching ahoy!

So I think either way, he'd try to stall for time. Maybe he can't tell them directly what's going on without feeling unfilial to his father, but he can drop hints and let his father braid enough rope to hang himself.

Whether or not it would work is still up in the air.

[twilightarc-gm]

Ask games are fun! ❤️ 👻 🎁 :)

ROBIN! 😊 Hi~ My perennial friend~ Always enabling me~

For this ask game~ Here

❤️ What is your favorite line that you’ve written in a fic? Round 2 of this question, I need to go find another line...[dial up noises]... Gonna cheat and say it's the last line here that inspired this art HERE! From Jiaoren!JC AU, of course. I really don't think I'll ever be that good at writing again. //dreamy sigh// Crying and sobbing over this one. Just STAY WWX!! 😭😭😭

Wèi Wúxiàn’s arms tighten around him. “Let’s walk back together, just lean on me.” “It’s fine.” “Take a step. I got you.” “I know how to walk.” But now it’s like the second night he tried, clinging to Wèi Wúxiàn’s shoulders and wishing he were in the water instead. And wishing that Wèi Wúxiàn would just stay so he wouldn’t fall at all.

👻 What is your wildest headcanon? Round 3 of this question!! I'm really boring, lovelies, my headcanons aren't that wild in general. Like I try to be very reasonable about what makes sense to extrapolate from canon material. //spins the wheel// May I interest you in the headcanon that (novel) Mianmian is from the Laoling Qin sect? 1. In a sect big enough to be worth taking disciples hostage during Evil Summer Camp. 2. Regarded well enough to have a seat at the Midnight Meeting to complain about (in her case, defend) WWX. Possibly meaning she was in the SSC too, during which Qin Su was known to be rescued by JGY (who now does the seating arrangements). 3. Though Qin Su's mother had her maid Bicao, (Watsonian observation) Qin Su has no maid by the time we see her, which coincidently is also after Mianmian has already left her sect. 🔍 Is any of this related? Who knows!

🎁 Have a piece of a WIP you want to share? Round 2 of sharing time~ Snippet of upcoming chapter for JC Gets a Divorce AU

"Aiya! I wanted to see the academy again for nostalgia's sake. A-Líng’s there you know? I was hoping to see him and turns out he's friends with Jǐngyí so that worked out. He was mad you didn't show up though. Madder still when I made excuses for you. Just like his father, right? I can't catch a break."  "It's your fault because you won't just suck it up and talk to a-Jiě. What the fuck is wrong with you Wèi Wúxiàn?" Seriously.... SERIOUSLY!  For the first time since Wèi Wúxiàn trapezed back into Jiāng Chéng's life, he didn't have enough face to take the shame. All the light goes out him, and the bruises under his eyes become pronounced. "How would you tell her you never called because you knew she would talk you into returning?"  He feels glued to the ground. He feels like he's become a pillar holding up all the world. He can barely move, but what he can manage means he's straightening the cuff of his right sleeve. It's not a nervous tick. It isn't.  He has jaw pain trying to make the words leave his tongue and get past his teeth. "I would have let her. I would not have left."

Get his ass, JC! BWahahah ... aheM! Anyway...

🌟⭐✨⭐🌟✨🌟

I have so many WIPs now just hanging out for all the world to see and it makes me very nervous that they aren't complete, but it's so much fun sharing them regardless. Phew! Okay I got no work done today, that was amazing, thanks for playing!! 😘

[mxtxfanatic]

Thanks for answering my ask.....if you don't mind me asking (again), can I ask your top 5 (or top 3) favorite characters from MDZS? And why do you love them? And your top 5 (or top 3) favorite moments from the novel? Sorry if you've answered this question before....Thanks....

Hello again! Alright, so mdzs list this time!

Favorite Characters:

Wei Wuxian: he’s smart, quick on his feet, a genius in his field, charming, a good person, innocent in love, strong in his morals, willing to fight for what he believes in and what is right even if it makes him enemy to all, has faith in himself, doesn’t shrink away from his emotions, unwilling to delude himself to reality even if it looks bleak, etc etc; he is literally the perfect protagonist in every single way

Lan Wangji: perfect compliment to wwx; they match each other so well in most of the things I listed for wwx but replace the “charming” with “takes no shit” and we got a winner

3, 4, and 5 (in no particular order). Wen Qing, Jiang Yanli, and a-Qing: I know people like to call mxtx misogynistic because “she kills off women!” and “they’re not main characters!” but I would argue that 1) that’s dumb because most of the characters we are introduced to in mdzs are already dead and 2) mxtx writes her female characters as people rather than props. I was enamored with these characters at their every appearance, however short, because they felt so real and expressive. I could get personality and motives, tell what they’d like and what would piss them off, come to enjoy them so much that I felt pain knowing they were already gone. This is the skill of mxtx’s writing.

Favorite Scenes!

Drunken shenanigans #2 where wangxian play the “catch me, kiss me” game, then wwx kisses him on the lips and lwj promptly knocks himself the fuck out lmao

Drunken shenanigans #3/bath tub sex (I feel like this is pretty self-explanatory)

Incense Burner dream #1 where wwx shows lwj his first-life daydreams of retiring to a remote farm together and it’s so innocent, only for lwj’s graphic teenage sex dream to also be revealed; also the actual sex scene

When wwx and lwj put nmj’s body back together sans the head, both of them tell lxc the likely murder of his sword brother is jgy, and lxc says that he is willing to vouch that jgy would never do such a thing… then the chapter immediately ends and the next starts with us seeing that jgy did, in fact, do such a thing and soooooo much worse right in lxc’s face LOL

Second Siege of the Burial Mounds, which between wwx telling the cultivation world that he will NOT bear their resentment as if he’s guilty for having acted against them, the Wen remnants choosing to rescue the people who killed them simply because of their gratefulness to wwx for trying to save them once, the reveal to the CHILDREN how corrupt their parents actually are to have gleefully killed a bunch of defenseless people before desecrating their bodies and lying about it, and how the adults who said they were justified to kill wwx and the wen remnants are the ones shamed by the end? There’s just so many winners in this part

[amokslime]

MDZS fencing AU! They're on different teams, they fence Epee, and they're utterly insufferable because they only care about outdoing each other.

I'm physically restraining myself from writing a big info dump about fencing. Here's some AU info instead:

I'm basing everything off of the fencing environment in my country/region, just because that's what I know best. I don't have a good grasp on international fencing because I never did it. But if you do, I'd really love to hear your thoughts!

Ok, here's some general background info: Each of the sects is a different local fencing team, either at private schools (Gusu Lan, Lanling Jin, Qishan Wen) or at independent fencing clubs. (Yunmeng Jiang, Qinghe Nie) Everybody sees everybody else repeatedly at tournaments and they all live in the same city, so there's team or personal rivalries that range from friendly to vicious. Many of the characters including Wangxian are aiming for college scholarships, the national team, or even the Olympics so things can get rather fraught and intense. Of course, you've got characters like JYL who are fencing just for funsies, characters who got gatekept out of the sport by their horrible dads (JGY) as well as former champions turned refs and coaches. (LQR, YZY, NMJ)

Wei Wuxian

Affiliation: Yunmeng Sword Club

Main Weapon: Epee

Wei Wuxian started fencing in middle school, shortly after being adopted by Jiang Fengmian. JFM and YZY are both former olympic fencers who started their own fencing club. They do not get along but both refuse to yield the club to the other. This creates a chill and healthy environment for everybody involved! They also compete by proxy through WWX and JC, so that's fun.

Despite this, WWX truly loves fencing with all his heart. He's a natural talent with an intuitive grasp on fencing strategy. He tends to goof off at tournaments unless he's actively in a fencing match. This earns him a reputation as a slacker that he doesn't truly deserve. One time he spilled a bag of skittles on the floor while watching a match and they rolled all over the strip. So now LQR, who was reffing that match, permanently hates him.

He's aiming for the national team! He loves winning and wants to see how far he can go. Attempt the impossible and all that.

Lan Wangji

Affiliation: Gusu Lan Private Academy

Main weapon: Epee

LWJ has been fencing since early childhood. He's good at all three weapon types. He's one of those people you kinda despair to face off against because he's strong AND fast AND his guard is good AND his attack is good AND he parries really hard AND when you shake his hand after the match it's not even sweaty. He's aiming for the national team because it's expected of him. Being from a fencing family, it never really occurred to him to do anything else. But fencing against WWX ignites his passion for the sport (for the SPORT) and he finds himself really, really wanting the victories he used to take for granted so he can fence (with WWX) as long as possible.

Gusu Lan is a famous private school with an excellent reputation & tons of resources. So Lan Wangji is an immovable object born out of the combination of privilege, hard work, and talent.

[kikimochiiiii]

My personal take on MDZS kins based on what I've seen (which is almost nothing)! Understand that this'll be very biased n uninformed, but it's just for fun and I cherish all kins! Please and thank you!💕

WWX: Fiercely protective over their homies/mother bear type; Live for the drama though, so they WILL pitch homies against each other; They will state that their opinion is ALWAYS right to assert dominance; They never feel silly enough; "What do you mean people don't have a bi panic every 20 seconds?"; The life of a party, for better or worse

LWJ: They are very accomplished and orderly; But ask them about that and they'll say that they hate how boring they are; They can recite all of their unrequited loves in detailed, dramatic stories; They have at least 1, if not multiple crushes where they hate the fact that they love them; once they hyperfixate on one thing, they'll never be able to tell you anything about anything else; Shy n sweet, we protecc

JC: "I HATE THAT I KIN THIS MAN, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND-"; Their family sucks so much and they absolutely deserve better; They always want affection but can't help but act grossed out by it; will fight WWX kinnies in a gas station parking lot; prayed to all the gods to be asexual because they hate hormones, but they couldn't be more thirsty; have killer fashion that makes everyone double-take; A fierce, chaotic beauty ppl don't forget

JYL: The mom friend; Is always the therapist/advisor/caretaker/friend/mom for everyone else; Girl, are you okay? You are overworked for real; Wishes they could be intimidating once in a while; LOVES ALL THE GIRLY FEMME AESTHETICS; "I'm so average TT TT" (is actually talented in so many areas wth); everyone is protective over them and they don't know why, but they like it💕💗

LXC: Oh my gosh, ARE YOU OKAY-; Have an emotional wall higher than Mt. Everest; The person with the most propriety; Perfectionism is their worst enemy; Have definitely dealt with toxic friends in their life, so please handle with care; the best listeners; Extremely artistic in some form or another; Are kind to all other kinnies, but will bloody take a bullet for JC kinnies on sight; No one shall ever know their music playlists...

NMJ: "I am who I am, and don't mess with me"; If people aren't genuine with them, they can't stand it; An open book at all times; Their face WILL show what they are feeling; They are just aiming to find a himbo or cute twink for their love partner (or both!); generally nice, but can whip out insanely painful insults, so don't test them; They are confident, and therefore, they are H O T

JGY: GOSH, WHY ARE THEY SO PRETTY??; Definitely were the reason for someone's bi or gay awakening; soft aesthetic e v e r y w h e r e; "A-Yao never did anything wrong!🥺"; Will 100% not snitch on you if you give them a favor or are just hot; Are all about optimizing their situation, if you catch my drift; They are the most loyal of loyal friends if they cherish you💗💕

NHS: "I was born to be petty."; They can recall everything they have a grudge against in worryingly great detail; They will exact revenge on you, so be nice; They have the absolute maddest make-up skills; Work in tandem with WWX kinnies to make chaos, but take a backseat more often; Either habe the highest standards or none at all with no in-between; Bring them to ALL of your sleepovers

WQ: Queen energy 24/7; "I fUCKING TOLD YOU SO-"; They are forever suffering from the incompetent, irresponsible people around them; They have dealt with creeps thirsting after them, and they all wound up missing, oops-; Will be a full-on bodyguard for JYL kinnies and MM kinnies on sight; They just hate men in general; Extremely smart and/or street smart

MM: Also constantly suffering from idiots around them; They are so pretty, but very modern n with the trend when it comes to fashion; They are so stable and sure in themselves, we love to see it; Definitely witnessed friends go through VERY cringe romantic relationships; Doesn't talk much in a group context, but if you start talking with them, they are an awesome friend💕💗; When protected by WQ kinnies, they'll insist that they didn't need up, but they'll secretly like it👀

WN: Classic shy and sweet TM; People were absolutely attracted to them before because they thought they fit a trope, and it was deeply upsetting to them; They are SO INDECISIVE; Their fear over making core decisions is immeasurable; They have an intense fear of emails; "Please don't perceive me..."; Can pop off when defending a friend, and it's very hot of them

XY: "Okay, but like, I'm just saying...a pocket knife would be good for self-defense because-"; They joke about concerning things in discord vcs at 3 am that everyone mutually chooses to ignore; Are adorably extroverted; "Omg you like candy too?! LETS BE BESTIES!!💕🎵"; Are oddly sweet considering they relate to Xue Yang; Definitely tried the goth look once, but they still looked like a cupcake; The hugging type of friend; Occasionally bratty for attention

SL: "Why do all these people lack common sense?"; Had 1 (one)(uno) crush and then never liked anyone ever again; Everyone calls their lifestyle dull, but they just say that they value consistency; You have to plan a meet-up with them 2 weeks in advance or else they will PANIK; Their form of love is helping you manage your finances; Are actually quite mature and wise once you get them talking

XXC: YOU ARE SO PURE, WHY ARE YOU ON THE INTERNET; Weirdly aged and ageless in personality; Also the mom friend, but they aren't burnt out, unlike JYL kinnies; Wear super cute, oversized sweaters, I don't make the rules; sweater paws HNNG; Sometimes a bit out of the loop, but they're doing their best; Jump around in a conversation; Found family is their absolute jam; An extreme empath, so they have to protect themselves from too much depressing stuff, like the news

Okay, that's it for now! I just picked out some of the MDZS people that stood out the most to me for now bc man, this is long, but lemme know if you want my take on any other MDZS character!

[rubbleinrainbows]

I've seen a few posts about how jiang cheng and wei wuxian have no chances of ever being the same pair of brothers they were before everything happened. That it's never going to be them standing up for each other, but standing on the separate sides of the room. Taking separate roads, only glances exchanged sometimes, burden of reciprocated fault too heavy to bear together. And as angsty and seemingly rational the idea may be—I don't thinks that's quite it.

(For the sake of convenience, I'll be referencing only the scene from the Untamed, when jiang cheng is captured by jgy and confronts wwx about the golden core. )

Jiang Cheng goes through all the phases of grief—first, angry at wwx turning out to be the misunderstood hero, shunned by the public as he sacrifices himself again and again, living out the Jiang clan's motto while all jc could do was live in his shadow.

Angry that after all the years he spent rebuilding everything wwx tore down by accident—his whole family just collateral damage of his arrogance—couldn't have happened without another one of wwx's sacrifices. That he couldn't even protect his nephew from it.

Painful desperation and unwillingness to accept it when Jgy tells jc he's partially responsible for wwx's fate.

After everything, all he can do is repeatedly shout at wwx, asking why he did it. He'd had everything, and just when jc had maybe hoped in the deepest part of his soul that his brother would prove to be a self fulfilling prophecy. Y'know. Out of spite, he gave it all away and lied about it so jc wouldn't suffer.

As such, accepting that hurts. Understanding that hurts.

True, before the knowledge that wwx wasn't just his irredeemable bastard brother who flew too close to the sun and JC had to watch from the ground, tending to earthly matters, their relationship might've ended at the hurt being the final straw. Instead, we are given a scene of forgiveness.

Jc allows wwx to get closer to him, even allowing him to touch his face and wipe his tear. Using visual symbolism, I believe this exchange is foreshadowing for the brother's reunion and building of something new out of themselves.

Someone may argue—left with no debts between them, they are perfectly free to part ways.

But is that it? Sure, debt and repaying it by all means is a theme woven throughout the whole story—screw the differences of the novel or show. However, no matter how often debt is a metaphor for love, we cannot equate such two things. Debt and love aren't synonymous.

So while Jiang Cheng and wei wuxian do not owe each other anything anymore (as wwx clearly states, telling him to forget all the mistakes they both made in wwx's first life), loving someone is not a job. Jc doesn't need a contract to love his brother despite everything that happened, because that's just not how the love between siblings works. Wwx is the same, and you cannot tell me he doesn't miss jc—for the love of god, he gave away his golden core for that man and that's not a thing that stops mattering when he dies.

In the end, it will take time. Jiang Cheng has to forgive wwx, and then himself for it to work and it'll be no small effort on wwx's part either; no one said anything about reforming bonds being easy. I'll even allow myself to use the golden cores as a reference, in that losing them is far too easy and reclaiming them often requires far too much effort for people to do it.

It's like I wrote before though—loving someone is not a job you choose, you're payed for, or that you quit.

In other words, even if they can part ways, in no universe would either of them choose to. If JC really didn't know about wwx's sacrifice, why waste 16 years of your life looking for your presumably dead brother who probably dispersed, when you could finally live without him in peace? With all the trouble he'd caused?

After all, when you start to love someone, it's impossible to erase that. And Jc is just human, seeking out other humans.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

Why didn't Su She just grab JGY and teleport out of the temple? Was his cultivation level really low? Did he need a recharge??

it's funny you should send me this ask, anon, since it does form the basic premise of a fic I am working on (kind of).

sms's cultivation level and martial arts skills are quite good! before uncovering his identity as the mystery swordsman responsible for absconding with xue yang's body and, presumably, the stygian tiger tally, wwx is impressed by his techniques and capabilities. during the second siege of the burial mounds, sms is the one who leads his moling su disciples in performing the altered song of vanquishing to seal the spiritual energies of everyone else present at the siege--and, once he is found out, he makes use of a teleportation talisman to escape (abandoning his own disciples in the process after tricking them--not a good look, minshan). he's using these talents towards a terrible purpose in this moment, of course, but this speaks to someone who does have a strong cultivation base; his own guqin isn't named in the text, but it is described as a first class spiritual tool comparable to lan wangji's. just because he isn't lan wangji, lan xichen or nie mingjue doesn't mean he isn't a strong cultivator! he's just not a cultivation prodigy.

(though, as an aside, it takes a different kind of gumption and courage to go from being exiled from your sect and branded a coward, to establishing your own sect in mdzs's jianghu.)

so, bearing in mind that he did just exert a considerable amount of that energy during the second burial mounds siege, I do think he was 'running low,' as it were, and didn't have much left in the tank. that said, I do think it's possible that minshan could have made use of a teleportation talisman for both himself and jgy, just because of how much spiritual power he pours into nanping [edit: not nanping!! i forgot that lwj already shattered nanping earlier in the confrontation. so this is a different sword, but i think my point still stands] in his final attack on nmj moments before his death. I am glad that this moment was included in the donghua and very sad it was changed in cql:

(highlighting that short paragraph up top just to indicate the short-sightedness of huaisang's revenge vision quest here. nmj's fierce corpse is a danger to everyone in this confrontation, not just jgy; moments earlier, he'd not only lunged towards both jin ling and jiang cheng, but even towards lan xichen and huaisang himself.)

I love this paragraph; I love that in this moment, minshan's martial prowess and his strong cultivation base get to shine, because he is a character who has gone through the entire novel belittled and mocked and denigrated by everyone around him because of his cowardice, his inconsistent control over his spiritual abilities, and his decades-long grudge against the gusu lan (and lan wangji specifically). all of that remains true, and in this moment, he is incandescent and capable and putting every scrap of remaining power that he has into this attempt to strike down nmj and protect jgy. it's beautifully and vividly written and demonstrates just how unwavering his devotion is to the only person in the text to consistently treat him with respect and dignity.

that said--

the moment of his death unfortunately encapsulates his achilles' heel, both as a character and as a cultivator, imo. minshan's problem isn't that he has a weak spiritual core and weak martial arts: it's that he is impulsive and prone to extremely poor judgment in the heat of the moment (case in point: he curses jin zixun for the unforgivable crime of... wounding his pride. I mean, I too think jzn is a cunt, but like, come on minshan). he pours so much dazzling spiritual power into his sword that it shatters, rendering him defenceless in the face of nmj's attack.

imo this is a pivotal moment in the final confrontation in the guanyin temple where both sms and jgy could have escaped exactly as you suggest, anon. if sms has enough spiritual power remaining to accidentally shatter his sword, he probably has enough spiritual power to activate a teleportation talisman (either while nmj is still staring at the empty coffin or after forcing him back with that initial sword thrust) and escape through it with jgy in tow. but he didn't, because that isn't the judgment call he made in the moment.

[screechfoxes]

character: the guy in your icon

favorite thing about them

i mean, how do i pick? he's just the Most character

it's a tie between his ruthless single-minded focus to ruining every aspect of jin guangyao's life, and the way he leans on the social perception of himself as the useless child he once was to accomplish his goals <3

least favorite thing about them

i legitimately can't think of anything that isn't an "i love this about him but recognise that it's objectively terrible in-universe". i do think i'd never want to know him IRL, not even young and silly NHS

favorite line

i love the CQL-only line of... what is it, something like "the things that aren't my business, i won't meddle with"? i really feel like it sums up his laser-focus on what he cares about, and frankly apathy towards basically everything else

brOTP

i'm coming up blank, but probably because i don't tend to draw lines between platonic and romantic ships i enjoy. i just love throwing characters together and seeing what happens

OTP

i like my nie huaisang ships Messy and Fraught, so it's got to be either nie huaisang/jin guangyao or nie huaisang/mo xuanyu

(i'd also like to shout out to my rarepair of jiang yanli/nie huaisang. ie: neediest man alive/woman who stakes her self-worth on being able to take care of people. and also my other rarepair of qin su/nie huaisang)

nOTP

i'm not the nOTP sort, but i confess that even though one of my favourite nie huaisang fics (and fics for the untamed in general) is sangcheng, it's one of those ships i'm not interested in in its own right - every author needs to sell it to me fresh

random headcanon

CQL-verse, obviously, but i generally think of him as having had a crush on meng yao Back In The Day - usually not more than an idle fancy, but just enough to add yet another layer of Fraught to it all

unpopular opinion

i don't see him as the type to matchmake WWX and LWJ.

both because i can't see him as interested in doing that in general, and in an AU where there was never a situation that led to him honing his natural cleverness, i can't see him having the social confidence to be the "wise" matchmaker type

song i associate with them

metaphor, by the crane wives. probably not a coincidence that i also associate it with one of my most beloved OCs tbh

favorite picture of them

i nearly posted one of the exquisitely hollowed-out expressions on his face post-JGY's death, but honestly, how can i turn down a nie huaisang who is just so incredibly baby

[fincalinde]

Apologies to @thatswhatsushesaid, but your tags on my Yi City vs 3zun post raised an interesting parallel I hadn't considered and I ended up digging into it. Then things got out of control, so I'm making a separate post. I'm really sorry if this comes across as excessive (I didn't think it would get this long when I started it!). If you still stand by your tags of course that's fine, but here is my accidental absolute overkill explanation as to why I don't think it holds up.

I can see why the confrontation between XXC and XY could be compared to the stairs scene with NMJ and JGY, and I understand you're drawing a specific parallel between XXC not really taking on board the significance of XY's pain + NMJ not really taking on board the significance of JGY's struggles, rather than claiming the scenes are directly analogous. And that definitely makes sense on the face of it! But on picking at it, I don't think they're as similar as they might first appear.

My feeling is that comparing XXC not hearing what XY is saying to NMJ not hearing what JGY is saying does a disservice both to XXC and JGY. Even though your point relates to one specific aspect, I think it's still important to take into account both scenes as a whole: XXC has just found out that the enemy who massacred a clan, committed who knows what other crimes, massacred Baixue Temple and blinded his closest friend and partner has been sharing a house with him for years. Even before finding out that XY tricked him into killing helpless innocents and even used him to kill SL, that is absolutely horrifying behaviour.

Not only that, but XY has shown no remorse. He's gone on the offensive, mocking XXC and being cruel to him. Yes this is a defence mechanism as XY obviously doesn't want to lose the life he's been leading or XXC's familial/mentorly relationship, but I personally think it's completely understandable that XXC isn't fully attuned to the niceties of XY's emotional state. And even if he were, it changes nothing. Because, and to me this is key, XY feels no remorse.

XY isn't sorry he used XXC to kill innocents for fun and revenge. He isn't sorry he massacred people and experimented on them. In all his years with XXC, and despite the fact that he's learned to love XXC, he's learned absolutely nothing from XXC about the value of any lives (or body parts) that aren't his own. His only regret appears to be that he's been found out. For me, it's really telling that XY's arguments are all based on how justified he is, how XXC is stupid and naive and his own little finger is worth more than any number of lives. Yes a great deal of that is the swagger and bravado of a hurt child. But the text seems pretty clear that the lives of others really do have no value to him beyond the one person he's learnt to care about.

Of course XY was once a vulnerable and hungry child who was cruelly tricked and grievously injured. He could indeed have died. It was an awful thing that happened to him. Maybe not just anyone would have subsequently have grown up to see all other human lives as worthless, but still, his backstory is a huge part of who he's become as an adult. But I just don't think it's enough to say 'this terrible thing happened to me when I was a child and that's why I've done all these terrible things' if it's not coupled with further development to bring him into closer alignment with XXC's values.

I'm not saying I believe XXC would have forgiven XY and the tragedy would have been averted if XY were capable of genuinely caring about the innocents he killed and feeling remorse for his actions—I really do feel that XY had already gone too far by the time XXC rescued him for XXC to ever reconcile with him once he discovered his true identity. But in my opinion, this is the heart of the difference between their confrontation and the confrontation between NMJ and JGY.

For one thing, NMJ is the one in the wrong when he confronts JGY. NMJ isn't a betrayed man begging for explanations from a trusted companion who lied about his identity for years after having personally committed excessive and cruel revenge against him. NMJ is a powerful clan leader dragging his sworn brother outside so he can literally attempt to kill him for the appalling crime of being more answerable to his own father (as is dictated by the rules of their society) than NMJ. It is completely out of JGY's hands as to what happens to XY. He cannot overrule his father's decisions. And yes, I'm sure JGY does want XY alive for his usefulness—but even if NMJ kills him, that won't change anything. JGS can and will continue to shield XY and NMJ will have broken his oath. (Well, NMJ has already broken his oath in attempting to kill JGY at all.)

When JGY pleads his case with NMJ, he isn't making the argument that he or any part of him is more valuable than any number of lives. He's making the, in my opinion, extremely cogent point that while in theory all lives have value, that value is subjective. He points out that NMJ has taken lives because he deemed it morally correct to do so. Therefore NMJ believes he has the right to decide who is worthy of life and death. What makes NMJ more qualified than anyone else to decide who is deserving of life or death? NMJ makes his decisions based on a code of ethics, but is he completely sure that every single person he's ever killed deserved to die?

Meanwhile, JGY admits that of the people he's killed, some at least must have deserved to live. He makes no claim to pass moral judgement on every person he's killed. But he does make the utilitarian argument that he believes killing one innocent person to save one thousand people is a choice worth making. And yes, he's acting for his own survival and wellbeing in conjunction with the greater good—just as NMJ has ensured his own survival and wellbeing throughout the war. JGY doesn't make his decisions based solely on the moral character of other people (which he is not necessarily qualified to judge), but instead on whether sacrificing one to save many is the right decision.

When NMJ asks JGY if he thinks he's better than the people he's killed and JGY answers that of course he thinks he's different, I actually do think he is intending to confirm he thinks he's 'better'. But what he means is in line with what he's already explained: that the value of lives is subjective, and of course in his own estimation his own life is more valuable than the lives of those he's killed. The same is true of NMJ; he absolutely also believes his life is worth more than the lives of those he's killed, but he won't (or can't) conceptualise that his own subjective judgements don't necessarily carry objective weight. NMJ is certainly not going to examine the fact that (although in some contexts I'm sure he would sacrifice his own life) he does value his life over that of other people.

And NMJ misses the point. Not at all in the same ways as a tormented XXC, confronted by a man who has fooled him for years and is childishly furious with him for even caring about his many victims. NMJ refuses to listen to JGY's point because he has already prejudged him. All he hears is that JGY will sacrifice other people but not himself—but his failure to hear JGY isn't due to grief and the shock of betrayal. It's due to his own inflexible nature, the hypocritical stance that JGY has just highlighted but that NMJ will never reckon with. NMJ hasn't sacrificed himself either, but that hasn't crossed his mind—because ultimately, he believes he is better than JGY by virtue of his birth. This is why, after kicking him down the stairs, he doesn't rebut JGY's point. He just calls him the son of a prostitute.

Essentially, having dug into this to an absurd degree, I think that conflating XXC not hearing XY and NMJ not hearing JGY doesn't hang together for me because XY's position is that his subjective experience is an objective reality: he's genuinely confused as to why XXC doesn't see that 50 lives for one finger (sad backstory included) is completely fair, as lives hold no value to him. He thinks it's stupid that anyone else could value those lives either—it's no wonder XXC is failing to engage with the (genuinely sad!) backstory when this is what it's led to. Meanwhile, JGY is taking a position driven both by reason and emotion. He fully understands NMJ's position but he strongly disagrees and is able to make a coherent argument in response that draws on his own difficult experiences and highlights inconsistencies in NMJ's beliefs. He defends himself and makes an argument for moral relativity without also claiming that he's done nothing wrong.

In both scenes, XXC and NMJ aren't taking on board what they're hearing, but that alone is not enough to support the comparison. JGY makes legitimate points and uses his own circumstances and personal experiences to bolster those points, while XY shares his backstory but uses it as an excuse rather than in support of a valid argument. In my opinion, one is worth listening to, while the other really isn't—and that's why I think the comparison doesn't quite hold up.