#and also you know not every podcast is the joe Rogan experience right like not every single one is the same

[drakey-wakey]

this is such fucking weirdo behavior lmfao like sorry i mentioned a thing i like that is relevant to your post guess ill kill myself instead since youre too high n mighty for us disgusting podcast listeners i guess

[genz420]

Guilty Pleasure Media 💻 📱

Masterlist | Rules

Content: Headcanons

Warning: None

Pairing(s): None

Character(s): Percy, Jason, Leo, Annabeth, Piper, Hazel

Percy Jackson

Of course, this is in a world where they can have access to the internet 

Bec I’m sorry, Rick, but in today's world, not having internet or access to elections is a no-go

Especially if you are a SPED

Everything you do is online, that is from experience

Clash of Clans and Hayday

I know nothing of Clash of Clans except that it is basically the guy version of Hayday.

I feel like he would be the type to take the games very seriously 

Like mid-conversation, he will stop to tend to his Clan and Farm

Jason Grace

Dougherty Dozen content 

Would pay a cameo to have Alex send him a message 

It warms his heart to see such a big family 

Even if there is something going on behind the scene

There has to be something happening right?

Leo Valdez

Joe Rogan

I feel like Leo would know who Joe is from UFC but then he would get really into the podcast 

He would def watch UFC as well

Also, would love the WWE

He knows it is scripted but still 

LOVE the judgement day

Who doesn’t love Rhea Ripley

He knows all the lore

Everything about the fighters 

Annabeth Chase

Now, Annabeth has much more important thing to be doing than giving more than an hour of her time to a form of media 

So, she likes the commentary channels

Like Chad Chad, FunkyFrogBait, and Mogul Mail 

It allows her to know what is happening in the world

Would also love looking on realtor websites at houses

Loves Realtor.com and Realtor.ca

When she wants to see the more expensive houses, she goes to sothebysrealty.com

Piper Mclean

Travel Media

Not Influencer travelling 

But YouTubers who make videos about HOW you can travel 

Like Jeb Brooks or Trek Trendy

Please tell me I’m not the only person that knows these people

I think she would love the train videos

From Amtrak to Via

Would so love Rosie Maio 

Hazel Levesque

Muder Docs

Like most women, she would love murder docs

Not the ones on Netflix 

Bec as someone who has literary watched every single murder doc on Netflix, they don’t have the good ones

Youtube, on the other hand 

Would obviously be subscribed to Explore with us 

Because he makes the best ones

[esta-elavaris]

Do you have any writing YouTubers that you watch? Or writing streams and the like, I’d love to know what your writing process is like!! 💞💞

I don't have many that come to mind, I'm sorry! When it comes to creatives on YouTube I tend to lean more towards folk like Rachel Maksy and fibre artists rather than writers - I'm kind of leery of a lot of writing YouTubers because the ones I happen across give me the impression of being more concerned with looking like writers, or telling others how to write, rather than actually writing. Like one recently who tried to act like 2.5k words was insane and unrealistic and not doable.

It's the sort of thing that just can't be taught beyond reading a lot and writing a lot, even my creative writing teachers at uni flat out admitted as much and focused on helping us be the best writers we could be in our own individual ways rather than being all "you must write for three hours per night and before you start you must set your story out into this detailed plan" etc. so I always wince when I see influencers hitting out with advice like that, and a lot of them do because they want to be the ones with ✨the answers✨ // the "right" way of doing things, when there just? Isn't one? Like seeking out advice and new methods to experiment with is all well and good, but I've been in writing groups before where folk have posted showing off the stack of 30+ writing "how to" books they'd just bought (not an exaggeration), and like? At some point you need to just write, get feedback on it, and work things out from there, rather than reading theory and using that as an excuse to avoid actually writing until you've read all 34584 books about it...most of which will give wildly contradictory advice from one to the other. I get the temptation people have to be like "but if I read all of these books before I start my story, my story will be PERFECT from the very first draft!!!" but that's just not the case.

Fic is actually amazing in that respect because you can get feedback for your general style and test out what people do and don't like about it. It got me out of my habit of stupidly heavy introspection in every single chapter when people were like "bestie, enough" during Little By Little 🤡 Not saying there aren't any good writing-focused YouTubers out there! I just haven't found many that I vibe with 💀 my favourite booktubers are Emmie Reads and throneofpages, and CarolynMarieReads (who does also discuss writing!)

I do really really like book The War of Art by Steven Pressfield in terms of other media about writing, I reread it every now and then and I buy it for every creative in my life, it's phenomenal - a lot about how we get in our own way when it comes to creative endeavours and how to not do that, and how procrastination is the enemy. He's done quite a few podcast appearances, I think, if you don't want to get the book! I know Joe Rogan himself uhhh isn't great but his podcast is actually worth watching when he has a good guest, and Steven Pressfield is among them, but he's also been on others all over YouTube if you're not willing to tolerate Joe. Steven King's memoir On Writing was also good, from what I remember of it.

Mostly I just take the stuff David Goggins says, though, and apply it to creative avenues rather than the workout-geared stuff people usually use it for, but I get that he's not for everybody. He just makes a lot of good points about chasing fear and doing stuff when you don't want to, which is a lot of what I struggle with when it comes to writing, I'm always convinced each chapter is absolute dog crap until I'm told otherwise lol.

The content I engage with on that end of things does tend to be more mindset and general, though, rather than stuff that gets into the mechanics of writing. I'm pretty lucky in that I was obsessed with reading pretty much as soon as I learned how, and writing quickly after that, so I learned a lot by reading and mimicking whatever I was enjoying at the time before I'd been at it long enough to develop my own "style". Even now I can look at stuff I write and see the influences, there are just enough of them now that it ends up being its own thing, so I don't approach things from a very technical "ah yes, here I will use free indirect discourse because this will add depth to this character's perspective" or whatever, I'm just feeling my way through based on what I know has/hasn't worked in the past.

I'm not into the whole side of things where people present it as "your story should have X amount of beats and it should follow this graph if you want to write this genre, and these three tropes", it's too scientific and it takes the joy out of it for me, personally. I go into stories with a vague idea of what I want to happen and half of the fun is working out how to get there. I usually know like two or three things that will happen in a story when I start it and the rest just happens as I write. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! The only indicator I tend to have is how much an idea scares me. The ones where I go in confident are always boring, the ones where I'm certain I won't be able to pull it off are always grand.

The best analogy I've heard for it is that it's like walking through the dark with a flashlight - as you move forward, you can see just far enough ahead that you know where you're going in the immediate future, but you don't know what's at the end of the road.

The only thing I'd really, really recommend, beyond lots of reading and experimenting with what works for you, is daily writing. I think my stuff improved so stupidly quickly when I started that, and the hardest part of writing is actually sitting down to write rather than the writing itself, so if you write daily you take the "ugh, I really should write today" out of it, and everything is easier from there. It's not even difficult, either, I've had days where my writing was done on my phone on the bus on the way to or from somewhere. It's just about showing up.

I hope some of this massive essay was helpful 💀 I'm super flattered that you're interested in my process! 💜 Feel free to ask any questions anytime I love an excuse to inflict dissertations on people.

[soundorp]

What can be some Solo Podcasting Ideas

Starting a solo podcast can be both exciting and annoying. However, with the right approach and strategies, you can turn your solo podcast into a captivating and rewarding endeavor.

Let’s figure out some stuffs that you need to keep in mind first. The biggest issues going solo (for me) are:

Just learn how to speak to an audience by yourself. So much more thought is put into tone, cadence, emphasizing certain passages or words. Like some have suggested, record yourself reading your script over and over. You’ll find slowing down your speech and not just reading text is more difficult than expected.

Multiple character voices (since it’s my voice and I don’t have much range I use different methods to differentiate two characters from each other. Example, I’ll use phone calls in the story and have one character “on the other end of the line”, then use a high pass filter to alter the sound so it’s like their speaking through a receiver. That way it makes the different characters more distinguishable.

A solo podcast really means you are accountable for everything. If it sucks — it’s on you. Not your co-host or guests or whatever. In this way it’s great — and a little daunting. So go in knowing there are no excuses.

Solo Podcast Ideas

If you are just looking to make content and you think you will really enjoy the process? Go for it!

If you are looking to have the number 1 podcast in the world. I’m not sure one person talking about their life will do that. Unless that person is Dax Shepherd or Joe Rogan.

I would suggest to niche down as much as you can. From personal narratives to educational deep dives, there’s a solo podcasting idea suited for every niche and interest.

1. Personal Journey Podcasts: Sharing Your Story

Your Story Matters: Connect with Your Audience on a Personal Level

One of the most compelling forms of solo podcasting is sharing your personal journey. Whether it’s overcoming challenges, pursuing a passion, or beginning a transformative experience, your story has the power to inspire and resonate with listeners.

2. Expert Interviews: Sharing Insights and Knowledge

Unlocking Wisdom: Tap into the Minds of Experts

Solo podcasting doesn’t mean you have to go for it alone. I suggest you invite experts in your field for insightful interviews. By tapping into their knowledge and expertise, you can provide valuable insights and perspectives to your audience.

3. Educational Deep Dives: Exploring Topics in Depth

Dive Deeper: Educate and Entertain Your Audience

Solo podcasting offers a unique opportunity to delve deep into topics that interest you and your audience. Even if it’s history, science, or personal development, educational deep dives allow you to explore complex subjects in an engaging and accessible manner.

4. Inspirational Monologues: Motivating Your Audience

Empower Your Audience: Inspire with Words of Encouragement

Sometimes all it takes is a few words of inspiration to uplift and motivate your audience. Use your solo podcast to share empowering monologues that resonate with listeners on a personal level.

5. Creative Storytelling: Weaving Tales Through Audio

Crafting Narratives: Engage Your Audience with Compelling Stories

Storytelling is my favorite strategy. Use your platform to weave narratives that entertain, inspire, and transport listeners to new worlds.

6. Q&A Sessions: Engaging with Your Audience

Connect with Your Audience: Foster Community Through Q&A Sessions

Engagement is key in podcasting. Go host regular Q&A sessions where you answer questions from your audience. This not only strengthens a sense of community but also allows you to address topics of interest directly.

7. Product Reviews and Recommendations: Sharing Your Favorites

Curate Your Favorites: Provide Valuable Recommendations to Your Audience

As a solo podcaster, you have the freedom to share your favorite products, books, movies, and maybe review them. Use your platform to provide honest reviews and recommendations that add value to your audience’s lives.

8. Mindfulness and Meditation: Nurturing Mental Well-Being

Calm the Mind: Guide Your Audience on a Journey of Self-Discovery

These days mindfulness and meditation have become important for mental well-being. Use your solo podcast to share guided meditations, relaxation techniques, and insights into mindfulness practices.

9. Behind-the-Scenes: Offering a Glimpse into Your Process

Transparency Matters: Invite Your Audience Behind the Curtain

I want you to give your audience a glimpse into the inner workings of your podcasting process with behind-the-scenes episodes. Share anecdotes, bloopers, and insights into your creative journey to foster a deeper connection with your audience.

10. Interactive Challenges and Activities: Engaging Your Audience

Get Creative: Encourage Audience Participation with Interactive Challenges

Create interactive challenges and activities that encourage your audience to participate and engage with your content. Whether it’s a weekly writing prompt, photo challenge, or fitness goal, interactive elements add an extra layer of engagement to your solo podcast.

I have discussed in details about solo podcasting equipment, preparations and more in my Blog. To read my full Article, Click Here.

[ear-worthy]

The Life Shift Podcast Welcomes The Host of The Salad With A Side Of Fries Podcast

What happens when one podcast host interviews another podcast host? You can find out by listening to the latest episode of The Life Shift. On this episode, The Life Shift host Matt Gilhooly interviews the creator / host of the health / wellness / nutrition podcast, Salad With a Side Of Fries, Jenn Trepeck. It's Kimmel interviewing Fallon or Colbert interviewing Meyers.

The answer to my posed question above is that two podcasters adept in front of the mic and both possessing what Elaine Appleton Grant from the Sound Judgment describes as "hostiness," can craft such an engrossing interview that your ears demand more for your brain to process.

Right away in the episode, Gilhooly expresses his trepidation at interviewing another podcaster. Yet his apprehension is misplaced because Gilhooly glides through the interview like a gold-medal figure skater, landing verbal triple toe loops and insights that approximate a Double Lutz. 

Gilhooly as a host is inspiring. Unlike, say, Joe Rogan, he doesn't make the show about him, but focuses his energy on his guest. The life story of his guest takes precedence, and Gilhooly is a master at gently steering his guests on course and through their personal trauma or life story.

 If you haven't listened before, The Life Shift podcast host Matt Gilhooly has candid conversations with people about the pivotal moments that changed their lives forever.

He knows of such moments from personal experience, speaking at the beginning of the episode about how his mother died when he was only eight years old. It's one of those indie podcasts that, when you find it, you feel like you've discovered audio gold.

You can read my April 2023 review of The Life Shift here.  

Trepeck's life tale in this episode is made all the more interesting because she takes us down the memory lane of her life, not as a resume of her achievements, but more as an inside out view of how she viewed her life at every stage. 

We learn, for instance, that requesting time off to go on an annual family vacation was a critical point in her journey from employee to entrepreneur. She knew then that she would not be able to work for others for very long.

The other part of her story that is compelling is the independent podcaster part. Both Trepeck and Gilhooly are "indie" podcasters. There's no Spotify to bankroll their efforts. There's no staff to do the hundreds of tasks related to indie podcasting. They both are writer, host, marketing VP, Chief Financial Officer, Chief Operations Officer, and I.T. guru. 

For Jenn Trepeck and Matt Gilhooly, wearing multiple hats of responsibility is a way of life. What you also hear on this episode is the love both of them have for their podcast, their audience, and their chosen path.

In the episode, Trepeck excels at letting listeners into her thought process as she moves from investment firm employee to founder and CEO of Better Life Now LLC. She offers health coaching, business consulting and the expertise inherent in her podcast. 

From her interview on the episode, you can tell that she's smarter than the average health expert. Trepeck confounds other health coaches because she works with people until they are ready to solo. That sense of customer-first focus upsets other coaches who like to hook clients for a lifetime. 

When she created her health / wellness / nutrition podcast, she was wading into an ocean full of such podcasts. Right away, she found her distinguishing point. She doesn't have clients eat only cabbage for a month, or do bench presses until exhaustion, or exclude some macronutrient. Instead, her plan is reality-based, factually corroborated and eminently doable. 

 In the beginning of each episode of her podcast, Trepeck says, "Welcome to Salad With A Side Of Fries, talking wellness and weight loss for real life. I'll clear up the myths, misinformation, bad science, and marketing and teach you how to eat and how to cheat."

 My favorite attribute of Trepeck's is her focus on motivating listeners, not lecturing to her listeners. Trepeck is not one of those wellness podcast hosts where "failure is not an option." 

Instead, she recognizes and conveys that making lifestyle, fitness, and diet changes is exceedingly hard. Look for small wins, she urges, and do not make perfectionism the enemy of gradual progress.

 You can read my review Salad With a Side Of Fries from June 2023 here.   

If you don't know, indie podcasting is hard. It's building a media business from conception to birth through maturation. It's finding listeners amid a sea of other podcasts. If you are an aspirational or current indie podcaster, you should listen to this podcast episode. 

If you are a podcast network exec, you should sign up both of these podcasts onto your network immediately. If there's room on a podcast network for two guys to get sloppy drunk and make stupid jokes, there's room for The Life Shift and Salad With a Side Of Fries.

As a fan of either or both podcasts, you'll love this episode because both hosts are at the top of their game. 

Finally, if you are a podcast listener but have never listened to either of these podcasts, I recommend that you listen to this episode and then their podcasts. 

I'm paraphrasing animator Butch Hartman here: Life is full of challenges, and people like Matt Gilhooly and Jenn Trepeck have the four P's: passion, patience, and persistence. The fourth P is pizza, of course. 

I think Matt would like a nice half-meatball, half-mushroom pizza. Jenn would like a broccoli, green peppers, and black olives' pizza. We'll order from Nick's in Clayton. I have a 20 percent off coupon.

[nickgerlich]

It Is What It Is

As much as I love Spotify, and as much as I was entertained watching their story unfold in Netflix’ current series The Playlist, I have to take a stand against my favorite music player. You can’t just side with your faves because they are your faves, even if their problems seem onerous and maybe even oppressive.

Here’s the gist: As we all know, Spotify recently added audio books to its music and podcasts menu. Audio books are huge with people who spend large amounts of time driving, commuting on mass transit, or working out. It’s a welcome addition, and also a logical extension. After all, if there’s one more thing we can do with our phones, it enhances our lives in some small way.

The only problem is that Spotify has run up against its overlord Apple, because Apple takes 30% of all in-app sales. And that is how Spotify would like to be able to sell those audio books. Apple, of course, doesn’t care who its clients are. It owns the ecosystem. It is the landlord, and the App Store tax must be paid by anyone doing business in that realm.

And it had Spotify miffed to the point of trying to find workarounds to dodge that large bullet, which were, of course, denied. So Spotify has resorted to Plan C, which is slinging dirt and otherwise trying to make Apple look bad.

It’s a smear campaign designed to make Apple look like an internet bully. Now Spotify users who wish to listen to audio books via their phones are faced with the rather clunky proposition of doing so through a web browser rather than a handy app. While it is possible, have you ever tried logging in to even your Facebook account through a phone browser? It’s not a good experience.

Spotify may be the biggest music player in the world, but it is trying to play in someone else’s front yard. It knew this the very first time it submitted an app for review, and then again every time it has done an update. It’s like the toll on a bridge. You either pay it, or find another route.

Making matters worse is that Apple has another home field advantage. It also sells audio books through its Apple Books feature, which, of course, comes pre-loaded on every iPhone. Then there’s Apple’s long-standing practice of copying features found in other people’s apps and rolling them into their own operating system, everything from a basic flashlight (I remember when that was a separate third-party app) to photo editing and other tasks we now take for granted as being part of the phone right out of the box.

Amid allegations of Apple being anti-competitive, Spotify is left looking like a whiny cry-baby, albeit a giant in its own right. And Apple must once again defend its policies, which, by virtue of it owning the stadium, can dictate the rules. Develop your own damn phone, Spotify. Good luck with that.

Of course, Spotify could just go along with it and take their lumps, which means a huge dent in profits per book sold. Or, it could raise it prices to try to recoup those profits, knowing, of course, that they may have priced themselves out of the game against Apple as well as Amazon’s Audible.

Me, I would just take those lumps. Complaining just makes Spotify look bad. And ceding easy audio book downloads to competitors does not make much sense either. But then again, maybe what Spotify needs to consider is yet another tier of service (they have free and premium now) such that a platinum level would have access to books. For an extra $10 or $20 a month, I bet hard-core listeners would jump at something like this. Come on, Spotify has never been about a la carte ordering anyway, other than cherry pickling songs and artists. And how many books could a person possibly listen to in a month anyway? I bet two would be average, with a few folks as outliers.

I still love me some Spotify, but all this crying and finger-pointing is tarnishing an otherwise solid image. It weathered the Ye controversy last week by simply refusing to get involved. And it navigated the Neil Young/Joe Rogan kerfuffle earlier this year by once again not taking sides.

It’s time to do the same with Apple, because without Apple, they wouldn’t have their player in the hands of 60% of American smartphone users anyway. How’s that music sounding to you, Spotify?

Dr “Get Over It“ Gerlich

Audio Blog

[sklong]

Song rating website

#SONG RATING WEBSITE HOW TO#

#SONG RATING WEBSITE UPGRADE#

#SONG RATING WEBSITE BLUETOOTH#

#SONG RATING WEBSITE FREE#

Since the last time we updated this story in February 2022, Spotify has combined albums, compilations, and singles into one location, with an option to separate them. There’s an option on each Artist page to listen to only the songs of theirs you’ve liked, which is a very welcome change from previous years. If you turn on social sharing, you can see what your friends have been listening to and create sessions where a group simultaneously streams a playlist. Spotify lets you add an unlimited number of songs to your personal library, as well, and you can put up to 10,000 in each playlist. That is minus the catalogs of Neil Young, (some of) Joni Mitchell, and others who requested that Spotify remove their songs in protest of Spotify podcaster Joe Rogan’s chronic spreading of Covid misinformation. There are now more than 82 million tracks on Spotify. If you’re looking for lossless, a Spotify HiFi tier is on its way, according to the company, but there’s still no launch date, even a year and a half after it was announced. For $10 a month, the Premium tier ditches ads entirely and streams up to 320 Kbps, which is the standard streaming quality these days.

#SONG RATING WEBSITE FREE#

The free tier, with advertisements, defaults to a low-quality 96-Kbps streaming bit rate, but you can bump it up to 160 Kbps. It led me down rabbit holes to find new artists and old favorites, based on what I’ve already liked and listened to on the app. Spotify has the best music discovery algorithms and the slickest, snappiest user interface. If, however, all your speakers are smart Alexa-enabled speakers, you might want to consider Amazon Music, even if it’s not one of our top personal picks. If you’re planning to splurge on an Apple Music subscription with Dolby Atmos and lossless audio, you will need a pair of Apple-made headphones (to go with your iPhone and HomePod Mini). The devices or phone you own could also affect your ease of use. Lossless formats also require four or five times as much storage space per song.

#SONG RATING WEBSITE BLUETOOTH#

(I’ll explain lossless audio at the end of this article.) However, if you listen to music while running, with workout headphones or on a Bluetooth speaker, you probably won’t be able to tell the difference. If you listen to live recordings alone, in a quiet room, with a great pair of wired headphones, then you’ll probably want to splurge on lossless audio.

#SONG RATING WEBSITE HOW TO#

Tyler Hayes has tips for each service at How to Make Your Music Streaming More Social. If all those friends use Spotify, sharing the same platform will make it much easier. You may enjoy music more when you can share the experience with friends. So how do you know if you’re getting the right one-not only the best one, but the one that’s right for you? Here are some factors to consider. However, most people pick a streaming service and stick with it for years and years.

#SONG RATING WEBSITE UPGRADE#

When it comes to listening to music, you can always upgrade your headphones or speaker system. Subscriptions help fund the work we do every day. com and our print magazine (if you’d like). Special offer for Gear readers: Get a 1-year subscription to WIRED for $5 ($25 off). Amazon Music has also gone up in price, and several services have added tens of millions of songs to their catalogs since we lasted updated this article in February 2022. Updated September 2022: Tidal has (again) displaced Apple Music as our audiophile pick, due to audio quality upgrades. Be sure to check out our many other buying guides, including the Best Wireless Headphones, Best Wirefree Earbuds, and Best Cheap Headphones. We put ’em all to the test, and these are our favorites. Most of them have free tiers, but the experience improves if you subscribe and pay a monthly fee. The things that separate streaming services today are the quality of music discovery-whether it’s based on algorithms or human curation-the user experience on desktop and mobile apps, what devices you can use them with, and their sound quality. All these services’ libraries pretty much mirror each other, with tens of millions of songs both popular and obscure. These days, it’s more about the user interface than catalog choice. For example, Taylor Swift might have been on Apple Music but not on Spotify Tidal was originally weighted toward hip-hop. Picking a music streaming service used to feel like choosing a sports team.

[seabiscuit15]

Like all of us, Eric Dier won’t forget 2020 in a hurry.

After a tough 2019, where he struggled to nail down a place in the team as he fought against illness and injury, he’s changed position, become a key figure in central defence and earned an England recall after 18 months out of the national squad. He signed a new deal in July, has started 14 of our 15 matches in the Premier League so far this term, captained the team, reached 250 appearances for the Club and is getting back to the consistent level that so impressed following his arrival at Spurs back in 2014.

Eric, who will turn 27 in January, also made the most of lockdown, telling us: “I came out of lockdown with a new perspective on a lot of things.”

In his own words, here is Eric’s 2020, and his hope for 2021 - all in 20 questions as he spoke to us after training on New Year’s Eve.

2020

Eric: "2020. In one word, COVID. A lot of challenges in many ways for everyone. The challenges we’ve faced have been very difficult, so it’s crazy to think about the challenges that people have faced over this period, it’s difficult to even comprehend a lot of it."

Lockdown in March

Eric: "I was very naïve. I thought, ‘this will only be a couple of weeks’, we all were. We were due to have a game two days later!"

Finding myself

Eric: "I spoke about this recently. I was listening to Dave Chappelle (US comedian) on Joe Rogan’s (US comedian, MMA commentator) podcast, he said something interesting, that during lockdown, everyone had to sit down with their choices for the first time. What he meant was... when you are living day to day, doing your job, going there, doing this, you are constant, never really sitting down in your house, within your relationship, so you sit down and confront those things like you’ve never done before. Hopefully, that will be something positive and that people have reflected in the right way and changed what they realise they needed to. I definitely did that. I came out of lockdown with a new perspective on a lot of things.”

Time

Eric: "Lockdown gave me the time to really strip back everything. Over time, you get bogged down with lots of things. Lockdown gave me the chance to take the things I felt were important and leave the parts I felt weren’t. That was very important for me."

Green fingers

Eric: "I built a garden in lockdown, and I've carried on working on it since. I’ve spent more time just 'doing things'. That sounds silly, but, for me, building and working in the garden was like a form of meditation. Going deeper here... I think Gandhi once said that the best form of meditation is to do something and, for me, that was being out in the garden. It’s difficult to be fully self-sufficient, but I'd like to try. I’d like to experience that."

Training

Eric: "The Club did a fantastic job getting equipment to us, keeping us fit, maintaining that interaction. The manager was calling us, messaging us, we did the Zoom sessions every day, and that was really good. For me personally, it was so nice to have a block of training. I treated it like a pre-season. It really made a difference."

Back together again

Eric: "These are the good things to come out of lockdown, when we did get back together and trained together again, the excitement and the happiness to be back doing what we all love, all back together, you want to keep hold of that feeling for as long as possible."

We are family

Eric: "It’s crazy, people like Dele and Harry Kane, everything I’ve been through in football, I’ve been with them, and I say those two because of England as well. Every moment I’ve had, Harry’s been there, and vice-versa. That’s cool, having those experiences. Together, our focus is to win a trophy for this Club and our determination to do so has never been higher."

Project restart

Eric: "It was great to be back out there, great to play after so long, and a great game to come back to against United. We all enjoyed that."

Last nine, last season

Eric: "Those nine games set the foundations for this season and we’ve been building since then, building something that I believe is really exciting."

New role

Eric: "People make a lot of it when you change position, and some are very negative. For instance, if you make a mistake, the slightest thing, it’s, ‘that’s because he’s a midfielder’. For me, it’s been important putting that to rest, I have very clear objectives I want to achieve in this position, and I’m working hard to do that. The positive thing is that I know I can do better."

England

Eric: "That was a real goal of mine, to get back into the England set up. For the 14 months or so I was out (June, 2019 to September, 2020) those international breaks were so hard. It hurts a lot. International breaks without going away were difficult for me having experienced it for so long. To be back in that set up meant a lot to me."

Hugo

Eric: "When a team isn’t doing so well, the goalkeeper usually stands out well, and Hugo certainly rose to the challenge at the start of the year. He’s been unreal."

Pierre

Eric: "He’s been a fantastic addition on and off the pitch. Off the pitch, I like people who set the standard by the way they act. Pierre is very professional, looks after himself very well, works very hard every day. The more players like that, the better."

Harry and Sonny

Eric: "The dynamic duo! It’s something I’ve spoken to Harry about quite a bit, and I think the manager deserves a lot of credit for how their relationship has blossomed. He’s demanded different things from both of them, and that has made that relationship click. Obviously, when you have two players of that quality and, on top of that, you get them to do things that express those qualities in the best way, you get what we’re seeing at the moment."

New Year’s Eve

Eric: "I’ll be with my brothers, Patrick and Eddie - they live with me - we’ll light the fire in the garden, they’ll probably have a few drinks and I’ll have a mint tea with honey!"

Leeds

Eric: "I can’t wait for this one. I’m really excited to play them. The way they play is great, they’ve been a breath of fresh air. Marcelo Bielsa is a manager who has a lot of influence in football, including here, I guess, through Mauricio Pochettino."

League Cup semi-final

Eric: "Yes, it's really exciting. I remember the semi-final in 2015 against Sheffield United, the second leg at their place in the snow. Great memories. I’m really looking forward to that, a huge game against a great team in Brentford. We want to be playing these games. It’s where we want to be, challenging."

My best of 2020

Eric: "I’m reading my favourite book for a second time. It’s called Shantaram. It’s about an Australian guy who escapes prison and gets all the way to India, where he embeds himself in life in a slum, and becomes a figure in Bombay. It’s an incredible book, based on a true story, written by Gregory David Roberts. I think reading is so good for you, it takes your mind away from everything. My favourite podcast is still The Joe Rogan Experience. Jan Vertonghen recommended a TV series Operation Odessa on Netflix, that was incredible. Undoing was my TV show of the year and for apps, it’s got to be Spotlas, of course!"

Hopes for 2021

Eric: "To stay healthy, to keep enjoying my football and to continue feeling how we all felt on the first day back from lockdown and, my biggest hope, that we can all beat this virus and return to some normality. I can’t wait to see a full stadium again, that will be fantastic. It will be great to have the fans back."

[disengaged]

Do you know of any interviews where Metallica talk about performing for a million people (particularly Kirk but I’ll take what I can get) thank you! P.S does it bother you when people are anonymous? I have a lot of questions but I’m too shy hahaha

sure thing!! i haven't found too many of kirk, but here are some interviews discussing the moscow '91 show in general:

Full band interview with Riki Rachtman (on a boat ??? why are they on a boat)

MTV Moscow report with Kirk & Lars (interviews right after the set - lars talks about cutting his hand, kirk says like 2 sentences total & looks hella frazzled)

Lars on MTV Australia 1991

Lars & Jason, Australia 1991 (timestamp 2:54)

Lars interview from 2019 (mentions it offhandedly at the very end of the clip, still doesn't seem impressed by the number)

James also talked about it in the Joe Rogan podcast but the video has been made private on YouTube (???) & i'm not seeing any links to the full episode anywhere ... smh :-/

i know there are probably a lot more out there, but they tend to say the same things in every one, so i think these ones should be enough to give you that insight !! they all kinda tend to focus on the actual experience of playing in russia than with the actual crowd numbers. like ... when there are that many people, to the point where you can't see the end of the audience ......... i mean the scope is just unfathomable tbh

[queen-mabs-revenge]

I think a lot of the backlash against the Joe Rogan thing is based in pure class discrimination.

No one came at Warren and Klobuchar to denounce the NYT who literally lied to the American public from the highest levels of power about weapons of mass destruction, warhawking us directly into the Iraq war and leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Not to mention the NYT who has very openly advocated every US imperial war and coup change in the last century.

But the NYT is part of the upper echelon power -- the mouthpiece of the ruling class. The paper of record. Respectable.

Were these same people demanding Hilary Clinton denounce Henry Kissinger’s endorsement in 2016? Henry Kissinger, one of the most absolutely vile war criminals in recent United States history, responsible for millions of deaths and the imperialist oppressors left around the world from those war crimes?

But Kissinger is a statesman from the absolute heights of power. Respectable.

And then you have Joe Rogan, who yes, holds scientifically-inaccurate transphobic views about trans athletes in combat sports, and who has hosted some of the most insidious characters from the alt-right intellectual dark web (but who has also hosted some of the most radical voices on the left who are given no platform except their own anywhere else [Dr. Cornell West, Abby Martin, etc.]). And yes, who has a massive listener base, but also who has relatively no power in the system of oppression. Like obviously he has sway over his massive audience, but he’s not in the halls of power shaping policies that have lasting effects on the very lives and existence of millions of people around the world.

And what he does have is an audience of the powerless. Rogan isn’t a kingmaker whispering in the ear of warmakers and policy builders, he’s got a popular podcast with a bunch of working-class listeners looking for a parasocial relationship in their isolated, despair-filled lives.

And like, idk if some of those people are like, ‘hey Joe likes Bernie and I like what Bernie had to say in that interview, while I’ve never heard anything but the news call him crazy before’ -- and start looking into the campaign platform, and maybe even start looking into interacting with people who they know are supporters irl? Getting into contact with people who can compassionately educate about trans experiences and rights? About the ecofascist myths of overpopulation? About why racism and sexism are functions of class-based economics? That’s............kind of what this is all about?

But the fact that Rogan’s audience is for the most part working-class, low information voters is icky to these fucking liberal fucks who just want to go back to the respectability politics of violent oppression.

Genteel Liberals celebrate the endorsements from institutions of power who have actually shaped the system of imperialist violence and social oppression bc ‘that’s just how it is’, but get disgusted at the possibility of having to talk to one of the filthy rubes who has been affected and shaped by those systems of imperialist violence and social oppression. It’s transparent classist thinking, and frankly it’s not only disgusting, but maliciously harmful to a true socialist movement.

As the old socialist slogan goes, agitate, educate, organize -- and if we want  working-class movement, we have to believe in and have confidence in our ability to explain our systematic analysis, and also have the confidence in it actually addressing the material circumstances that lead people to be susceptible to narratives of fear and hate, and not shun situations that lead to interacting with people who have been lead that way!

[podcastsaliens-blog]

The 13 Best Out This World Podcasts of 2019.

As 2019 comes to a close the one thing that stands out in the Fortean world is UFOs and how they went mainstream this year. No longer relegated to blogs and the History Channel, news outlets like CNN, Fox, The Times, and so many more have placed UFO related stories on the forefront of their news. From the Navy announcing new UFO reporting processes, to storming Area 51, everyone was talking about the subject.

 One medium that was ahead of the curve and has taken the subject seriously for a long time is podcasting. There is no shortage of shows that focus on the UFO phenomenon, but some stand out above all the others. The best shows covering this topic are fun, informative, and bingeworthy. They tell you the story, lay out the facts, and have some laughs along the way.

 With that in mind, here are the 13 best “Out Of This World” podcasts that you should be listening to right now.

  1)   Hysteria 51

Hysteria 51 is a weekly podcast that takes an every-man approach to the world of the weird – aliens, mysteries, the paranormal, the unusual, and the unexplained. Hosts John Goforth, Brent Hand, and Conspiracy Bot (a cranky robot bent on world domination who also happens to be the show’s head researcher) examine a different topic each week and generally come to one conclusion…the truth is out there, but you won’t find it here.

Brent and John’s dedication as researchers specializing in UFO and Paranormal topics has helped turn Hysteria 51 into a household name in the “world of the weird”.

 Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/7b2wEEXKbCdA6ziac1VlmN

   2)   Stuff They Don’t Want You To  Know

Since 2008, Stuff They Don't Want You To Know has delved into the murky world of everything from UFOs to lost cosmonauts and allegations of the paranormal, applying critical thinking to the world's most prevalent conspiracy theories and, more often than not, discovering the disturbing grains of truth hidden in the heart of paranoia. Join Ben Bowlin, Matt Fredrick, and Noel Brown as they embark on their continuing quest to fit the puzzle pieces together, to connect the dots and follow the breadcrumbs into the truth behind the curtain, from the furthest reaches of the universe to the innermost depths of the human mind.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/5N6g8n6084T5D6Q67yGCUX

   3)   Somewhere In The Skies

Somewhere in the Skies is a weekly podcast dedicated to discussing UFOs, the paranormal, and just plain weird. Hosted by author and UFO journalist, Ryan Sprague, the show features current UFO events from around the world, audio docs, and special guests. Join Ryan as he asks new questions, and perhaps even finds some answers to the mysteries that lay somewhere in the skies.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/1g0MSTxiHo4KvtrUxhr6II

   4)   Blurry Photos

Blurry Photos explores the unexplained, explains the unexplored, and seeks the facts behind the fiction of the world’s most fascinating, unbelievable, and chilling mysteries and legends. Focusing on lesser-known topics of Forteana, conspiracy, history, and folklore, Blurry Photos is driven by the desire for a better understanding of fringe subjects through research, storytelling, and rational thinking. Listeners have said it’s like a contemporary audio version of “In Search Of,” and it’s “like Lore with a personality and a better narrator.”

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/3H2qXkTnlrSL9l36CjGVxj

   5)   Last Podcast On The Left

Last Podcast on the Left barrels headlong into all things horror — as hosts Ben Kissel, Marcus Parks and Henry Zebrowski cover dark subjects spanning Ufology, werewolves, Jonestown, iconic hauntings, the history of war crimes, and more.

Whether it's cults, killers, or cryptid encounters, Last Podcast on the Left laughs into the abyss that is the dark side of humanity.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/3yZg2MCkf31pPXiG4nznrg

   6)   Our Strange Skies

Our Strange Skies is a biweekly podcast that delves into the stories of ordinary people encountering the "unidentified" in their backyards and beyond. Each episode explores the UFOs and otherworldly beings that inhabit UFO subculture, and looks at what's left once you remove skepticism and belief.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/5qF2ehEiVnQ8JCvajGZivG

   7)   Monsters Among Us

Monsters Among Us Podcast is a show about UFOs, cryptid creatures, and those lucky enough to have witnessed them. Their focus is to provide a platform for witnesses to tell their tale in a safe and encouraging environment. Their mission is to give those with a tale to tell the stage to do so. All stories presented are true to the best of their knowledge so grab a seat, turn off the lights and tune in, boy do they have a story for you!

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/6GsF43OrzLJKCIMjzFVKym

   8)     The Joe Rogan Experience

From comedian, UFC commentator and TV host, Joe Rogan. "The Joe Rogan Experience" is a long form, in-depth conversation with the best guests from the comedy world, the sports world, the science world and everything between. Joe’s celebrity has afforded him the ability to interview many important names in the UFO world that do not usually do interviews. People such as Bob Lazar, Tom Delonge, and Cmdr. David Fravor to name a few.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0DQwuItv7pjVUmiuCGvqmM

   9)     The Mad Scientist Podcast

The Mad Scientist Podcast is a comedy show about the history and philosophy of science and pseudoscience. Hosted by Chris Cogswell and Marie Mayhew, they talk about all the weird stuff your science textbook left out. Because sometimes, the best way to learn how to think like a scientist is to talk about all the bad science floating around out there!

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/6W7w8EWQZbz6lXW2dKfBMX

   10)                  Alien Theorists Theorizing

A comedy/conspiracy podcast discussing all things in the world of: Conspiracy, Aliens, Science, Space and the Supernatural. Zel, Braden, Andrew, and Dan bring their unique, comedic approach aliens, space news, and the like.

Listen here - https://open.spotify.com/show/38hrYEIlNzErO7XtfdZUaS

   11)                  Unknown Podcast

This weekly podcast is a round table discussion (or is it saucer shaped?) led by a team of UFO journalists and researchers who approach the UFO subject with responsible skepticism and the scientific, journalistic attention it deserves. Each episode they discuss current UFO stories, revisit the history of the modern UFO era, and visit with special guests as they explore the mysterious and fascinating UFO subject.

 Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/6qK7hpoBXceODtJ4Ua33nz

   12)                  Black Vault Radio

The Black Vault Radio with John Greenewald, Jr. dives deep into the world of secret

U.S. Government and Military History spanning more than a half century. Using an archive of 2,000,000 declassified government documents as a starting point, Greenewald speaks to some of the most brilliant minds on the planet trying to get to the truth.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/1w1G5z9fSAWUCXRP0hc7zz

    13)                  The Cryptonaut Podcast

The Cryptonaut Podcast, hosted by Marc Storrs, Chris Carnicelli and Rob Morphy, explores everything from Aliens, Cryptozoology, Cryptids, Ghosts, Monsters, The Occult, Paranormal Phenomenon, UFOs, Ufology and Unsolved Mysteries................ all while

keeping a close eye on our reptilian overlords that dwell in the flat, hallow, robot infested Earth.

Listen Here - https://open.spotify.com/show/3QXANIcNJZGQAwiyyKRLUN

   By Raymond Walden IV

Cover Photo by Miriam Espacio on Unsplash

[fathersappointed]

The Devil appears to be on the move with this substance!

All You Need is Love and Ayahuasca!

From out of the jungle “two plants” combined together one a Vine! Begins to spread her tentacles all around the planet calling out to people, portals into other dimensions! Graham Hancock, a man who wanted a God to worship! Found Ayahuasca, (“eye – a – waska”) and it comes with a Goddess!

Hey Joe! Where you going with that DMT in your hand? I’m going to burn my brains out, you know I heard a voice, a voice of another man! Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in! Drug pushing! Graham, Joey, say it ain’t so! These two acid-heads oughta know better!

The Devil appears to be on the move with this substance! One has to wonder? What’s up with that! I had recently posted on Graham Hancock and his indulgence in ayahuasca when I came across this video, compelled me to post another warning on this substance. Joe Rogan is a well-known podcast host, Graham is a successful author. They are also the Devil’s unwitting, although willing Ayahuasca Pitchman! Graham says it’s called The Vine of souls for nothing it’s an extraordinary portal into other realms! He says this sounds nuts to anyone who hasn’t done DMT or who haven’t drank ayahuasca, but you meet intelligent entities! No this doesn’t sound crazy to me Graham, what seems crazy to me is your lack of concern at what you’ve experienced. Graham, a self-proclaimed God-fearing agnostic..ok, says with Ayahuasca you can communicate with this entity that he reverently refers to as the Mother Goddess. He says that more and more people around the world are meeting this Goddess figure!

Graham talks about his encounter with this powerful entity. He starts talking about how he’s willing to accept that this entity is not real, just a figment of the mind an illusionary manifestation. This is a very puzzling line for Graham to say because that’s what he absolutely refuses to accept, that this entity is a figment of the mind an illusionary being this entity is absolutely real to him. And he immediately voids out that statement with, not only do I think she’s real but that she’s a Goddess! This entity that Graham encounters immediately gets down to business enforcing a state of dominance over him, impressing upon him that she has the moral superiority and the right to judge him! He says this entity that he reverently calls a Goddess doesn’t mind bringing you to a place of hell, to a judgment scene! He says, that everything in his life could be displayed before him, everything you’ve done every second every minute of your life is completely transparent! Every thought, every action, everything you did from the moment you became conscious until the moment of your death is laid out before you! “This is quite an experience, it’s a manipulative/intimidating experience for anyone encountering this evil group. Graham and Joe, like so many, don’t know what we are truly experiencing in this world. They can’t conceive that we are under a  multi-directional attack to manipulate us and our perception and our understanding of life. What Graham has experienced and is explaining is not being caused by entities from other mystical realms per-say. This is caused by the direct results of the Devil and the betrayer’s that stand with him, Christ, Magdalene (Mad Mag, Graham’s Goddess!) John, Paul, etc. This explanation will be less believable than the Ayahuasca Goddess Worshippers but nonetheless that’s what this World is up against! A group led by an entity so consumed with hate it cannot be reasoned with, it will not stop! Until it has accomplished its desire, which is the kill Our Celestial (not to be confused with spiritual “a creation of the devil”) Father and Mother and all of us! This group is not working in a cosmic swirl of spiritual mysticism they run their horrific operation from a structured command platform! They have at their disposal “immense computing ability” beyond what scientists are currently trying to create! With the highly advanced technology at their command they can easily follow and capture every moment, every word, every thought, of any person at any time that they are interested in or are planning to manipulate in the course of that person’s life! Also, they don’t need you to drink ayahuasca in order for them to reveal your life to you!

Joe’s been thinking lately that it doesn’t even matter!

Joe says, When you talk about the Ayahuasca experience and you talked about the Goddess coming to you, and you choose to believe it’s real! My thoughts on this whole what is real, what is not real thing is that → “it doesn’t really even matter” ← if you believed the Ayahuasca Goddesses is real or not, as long as you’re learning from the encounter! Graham agrees, “it doesn’t matter!"  "Joe, are you even listening to yourself!” It doesn’t really even matter if evil entities exist! It doesn’t even matter if evil entities are using psychedelics to communicate, to manipulate people? Joe, I want to take a moment to point out that it really does matter! Really, Joe, I think that’s one too many trips down the yellow brick road for you!

Oh! That I would not be so all alone Everybody must get stoned!

Joe believes that psychedelics are the key to our next level of consciousness a step in our evolution. He says, it’s about a learning experience. It’s about massive leaps in the development of your personality and your psyche, your world view, your personal view, and these massive leaps happened through psychedelics! They happened exactly the same way if you really do encounter a Goddess or if this Goddess is just conjured up by your imagination in incredibly vivid detail either one is the same experience to you personally Joe says this is a very important point, yes it might be a hallucination or it might not be a hallucination Graham agrees…. (Whoa! Joe, Graham, don’t go so fast all you’re experiencing is an acid blast!) Again Joe, Graham, it makes a big difference if this manifestation is a conjuring of the imagination or evil entity bent on manipulation and murder, which is what we’re dealing with! Joe calls Ayahuasca an incredible Ally! He says the best way is the “psychedelic way” An amazing plant..thing in several forms! Joe believes if they just broke Ayahuasca ceremonies out all over the globe, if it became the next big thing, like cell phones. We’d end up living in a surreal wonderful Life. Joe, really spend our days tripped out worshipping the Ayahuasca Goddess! Joe, this is not an entity of love, this is a cold existence of indifference seeking to manipulate people, a willing betrayer controlled by the Devil!

Joe says,  it sounds crazy but I believe this I believe that psychedelics are here for human beings to take to move to the next level of consciousness Graham says, I agree with you that the single one-stop shop to transform our society and make it a better place a far better place than it can be today is the correct use of psychedelics. But I would be wrong to say that psychedelics are a magic potion. Graham you just said the stuff was a one-stop-shop that sounds like a magic potion to me! Which of course it isn’t!

Let the Goddess and the demons set you free! All you need is Love and Ayahuasca!

Graham says, here is an incredibly valuable experience that is available to us. Graham, can’t stop talking the stuff up he’s a man possessed! (literally) He says the big problem is the war on drugs demonized this substance (I wonder why?) There is a deliberate structured reason the Devil makes some things look like a fight. Graham believes with psychedelics you break through portals into other dimensions! When Graham was asked if he believed evil entities were using psychedelics for communication purposes. He said he thought it was an interesting possibility, but that he believes that’s a simplistic approach. Graham goes into a cosmic fanciful swirl about huge unseen rounds of life-forms and how we could interact with these mysterious beings if we were in the right frame of consciousness. In other words “tripped out on psychedelics”. “Can you see the mental snare? (One of many in this post) It’s being created here!”

Graham says Ayahuasca ceremonies are happening everywhere it’s happening in Japan, it’s happening in America, it’s happening in Germany, it’s happening throughout the World, a group of small but growing initiates! In other words, a growing group of enthralled people believing themselves on the brink of great knowledge, unaware that it’s the Devil who has mesmerizingly pulled them in! All of which are in extreme danger these entities that they are dealing with are consumed with hate and desire!

What we need Graham says, is a nurturing society that makes it possible for us to take these substances in a loving nurturing way. He says those beneficial experiences can and frequently do include painful moments. Moments when you come to the realization of who you are, and what you are! “By whose standards Graham?” I’ll tell you who’s standed you’re going by the standards of an entity that’s planning to “Kill You!” Graham says, what is absolutely fundamental with ayahuasca, is what Graham calls the “»Life review«where you see the impact of your behavior on others and the pain you caused. He says in the Amazon they’re called teacher plants. and is making a serious comprehension blunder, his mesmerization of what he refers to as the Ayahuasca Goddess and will describe in a Worshiping Exuberance has completely corrupted his ability to understand what has ensnared him! This is not a compassionate teacher reaching out, this is a mental conditioning, a mental manipulation force, a force motivated by hate, a force planning to kill.

The Devil manipulates those who can manipulate others".

Graham’s mind has been compromised! He has taken the bait he has bought the pitch of the Ayahuasca Bitch! He has enveloped himself in a mesmerization that has compromised his objective reasoning. Speaking of this entity like one who is having a Religious Awakening. He has taken an entity that has manifested itself within his psychedelic experience and elevated it to a God! Listen to Graham it becomes painfully apparent that he has mastered the art of misdirection in this video. Although he will mention evil within ayahuasca he is fast to direct it to outside influences as being the source of true evil even when he brought up the Aztec and their demise he turned the point of concern to agriculture! In this video, there is such an immensity of wrong that it is impossible for me in this writing to cover it. Anyone thinking this is an incredible adventure and learning experience to be embraced you will not be dealing with happy little fairy people that want to hug you and laugh with joy. You are dealing with cold-blooded hate that’s had people on their knees praying to them through the ages as they spread agony and death everywhere. Rethinking is everything! That’s what is needed! It is my sincere hope that both Graham and Joe come to the realization of the hate that has ensnared and compromised them. As I do with all the People of this World.

[paleorecipecookbook]

RHR: What the EAT-Lancet Paper Gets Wrong, with Diana Rodgers

In this episode, we discuss:

What’s missing from the EAT-Lancet Diet

The relationship between meat and the environment

The right way to raise livestock

Where the misunderstanding around meat and the environment comes from

Protein and the EAT-Lancet diet

The impact agriculture has on the environment

The problem with lab-grown meat and a meat tax

Diana’s upcoming docuseries, Sacred Cow

Show notes:

“Why You Should Eat Meat: My Appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience,” by Chris Kresser

“20 Ways EAT Lancet’s Global Diet Is Wrongfully Vilifying Meat,” by Diana Rodgers

“Food in the Anthropocene: the EAT–Lancet Commission on Healthy Diets from Sustainable Food Systems”

“Why Eating Meat Is Good for You,” by Chris Kresser

“Should You EAT Lancet?” by Marty Kendall

“The EAT Lancet Diet is Nutritionally Deficient,” by Zoë Harcombe

“What Is Nutrient Density and Why Is It Important?” by Chris Kresser

Allan Savory’s TED Talk: “How to Fight Desertification and Reverse Climate Change”

“Sustainable Dish Episode 83: The Truth about Greenhouse Gas Emissions in Livestock Production with Frank Mitloehner,” by Diana Rodgers

“Sustainable Dish Episode 84: Meat as Scapegoat with Frédéric Leroy,” by Diana Rodgers

Sacred Cow, a film by Diana Rodgers

[smart_track_player url="https://ift.tt/2BTIfw6" title="RHR: What the EAT-Lancet Paper Gets Wrong, with Diana Rodgers" artist="Chris Kresser" ] 

Chris Kresser:  Diana, thanks so much for joining me again on the podcast.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Chris Kresser:  So, we have a lot to talk about.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah.

Chris Kresser:  This is an annual event, where there’s some big news story that comes out or study that’s published that demonizes meat and animal foods and purports to be the final nail in the coffin for anybody who's eating animal products. In fact, as you know, I just went on the Joe Rogan show, my third appearance there, to debate Dr. Joel Kahn about the merits of animal foods in the diet and eating a vegan diet. And I spent a lot of hours preparing for that and wrote a lot of articles. And the debate itself was almost four hours long, and admittedly I was a little tired out after that experience. And I just couldn't muster the energy and strength to write a rebuttal to the EAT-Lancet paper that was published. But you did, and several other people did.

And so I’d love to dive in and talk about that, as well as just stepping back a little bit and discussing some of the environmental impacts or the purported environmental impact of eating meat and what's wrong with the traditional narrative there. Because I didn't get to talk much on the Joe Rogan show about that. And then some of the difficulties of addressing this, and how I know you’ve been working on a film to try to get this message out that we’ve talked about. So why don't we just start first with the EAT-Lancet paper, since this is what's really making the rounds now and bringing this to the forefront of everybody's attention.

What’s Missing from the EAT-Lancet Diet

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, definitely. So there’s, they were really attacking red meat on a nutritional and environmental angle. So, I know your arguments on the Joe Rogan podcast were purely nutritional. I think that the main narratives are always nutrition, environment, and ethics. And ethics were kept out of the EAT-Lancet. Very long paper that took me quite a long time to read. But there's definitely a lot of misinformation in there about meat.

I mean, they’re using observational studies to basically tell us that we cannot have any processed meats at all, lumping them all together, and that we can only eat less than half an ounce of red meat per day. We can only have less than one ounce of chicken per day. But yet we can have eight teaspoons of sugar per day.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, and plenty of corn and rice and wheat. Let's talk a little bit … I think most of my listeners are pretty familiar with the nutritional arguments. I and others have written a lot about that, and most recently my … in preparation for the Rogan show, I published a whole cornerstone page with everything you need to debunk the nutritional arguments. So, that's at ChrisKresser.com/rogan, if you want to look it up.

But I just want to briefly talk about the nutrient density of this EAT-Lancet diet. Because if you just look at it from that single perspective, nutritionally you’ll see very quickly that it falls short. And our body needs micronutrients to function properly. And if a proposed diet doesn't offer those micronutrients in sufficient quantities, I think we can safely say it's not a good diet for humans to follow.

And I don’t want to spend a ton of time on this, so I’m just going to go through this really briefly, and then I want to switch over to talking more about some of the environmental issues. Because that's, I know, an area where you have a lot of expertise. And I really love what you have to say there. So, Zoë Harcombe did an analysis, and I think you had mentioned, Diana, that Marty Kendall did too. So we can talk about that. But Zoë's analysis, it’s not publicly accessible. You have to be a subscriber to see it. But I can share this part of it. She analyzed the EAT-Lancet diet using food tables and found that it was well below the RDA for several nutrients: B12, retinol, vitamin D, vitamin K2, which wasn’t even studied separately, but 71 percent of the K in the diet came from broccoli.

So we know that there's probably very little K2 in the diet. Sodium, potassium, calcium, and iron. So that's a lot of the essential nutrients that we need, and in some cases it was providing less than 20 percent of the RDA of those nutrients. So, to me, that's pretty much case closed on that basis alone. And then we can look at all the other problems that observational studies on red meat and all of that entail. And I just think it’s … there’s really nothing to be alarmed about. This study doesn't add any new evidence that meat and animal products are harmful.

Diana Rodgers:  Not at all. And another thing she didn’t mention in her paper or her review is the conversion rate of some of the vitamins, like beta-carotene to vitamin A, and almost half the population can’t make that conversion easily. And so even though on paper it my show that the vitamin A was adequate, actually not.

Despite what the EAT-Lancet paper says, meat is still a healthy addition to your diet. Check out this episode of RHR for my discussion with Diana Rodgers about what a real healthy diet looks like. #nutrition #chriskresser #wellness 

Chris Kresser:  It’s the same with all of these other nutrients. I actually wrote an article. I addressed this in my article on nutrient density you can find at the ChrisKresser.com/Rogan link. Iron, 94 percent of the iron in the EAT-Lancet diet is from plant-based forms of iron. And we know that heme iron that you get from animal products orders a magnitude better absorbed than most plant forms of iron. And the same with calcium, that is better absorbed from, in most cases, from animal products. And virtually every other nutrient, zinc, long-chain omega-3 fats, only found in animal products. So it's really, yeah, that conversion and bioavailability piece is almost never addressed in these kinds of studies.

Diana Rodgers:  Right, and you also write a lot about B12 and how these plant-based B12 analogues actually increase your need for a real B12.

Chris Kresser:  Exactly. Yeah, so, really nothing to see here from a nutritional perspective. But part of why it's making such a big splash is in addition to the highly coordinated launch campaign that is driven by celebrity, very wealthy celebrity type of people who are behind this, is the argument that not only should we avoid red meat and animal products for these nutritional reasons, but they're destroying the planet. So let’s really dive into that and unpack that from the perspective of the paper. I think you wrote an article, something like 20 reasons or 20 points against this. So we don't have to go through all of those, but let’s cover the highlights.

The Relationship between Meat and the Environment

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, well, I think the number one thing that people need to understand is that we can’t just assume that if we’re not raising animals that it will automatically free up land for more crops. So, agricultural land isn't interchangeable. Most of the agricultural land on the globe is not suited for cropping due to water availability. It’s too rocky, it’s too steep.

So, I think a lot of people, especially that haven’t traveled much, look around and just see the nice flat land and just assume that everywhere in the world is like that. I mean, picture Iceland, Norway, picture many parts of Africa, Mongolia. I mean, there’s just so many places that really will only support grazing animals and not wheat and corn and soy production. And so that’s a huge thing that we need to consider, and if we are to not graze animals on that land, not only will we lose that for food production, but the land will also desertify. Because we just don’t have those wild herds and the numbers that we used to any longer.

And ruminants are actually incredibly beneficial. Their impact on the land helps increase water holding capacity; their grazing actually stimulates new growth in a good way. So you can’t just have these fenced-off acres with nothing on it. You actually need grazing animals as part of healthy grassland ecosystems.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, that's a point that is really misunderstood. I see a little bit more discussion about it certainly, at least in our realm. But I’m having kind of a hard time thinking of a mainstream article that really did justice to that point. Do you know of any?

Diana Rodgers:  Well, I've written a few blog posts on it and have talked a lot about it. I think Allan Savory does a really good job.

Chris Kresser:  Certainly.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, in his Savory Institute work that they've done and also his TED talk. But I think that's definitely the number one point that people need to understand. And it's funny because I am working on a book as well on this topic, and my publisher actually has published a ton of vegan books, and he was skeptical. And once he read my environmental argument and specifically wrapped his head around this very topic, I won him over.

Chris Kresser:  That’s amazing.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, people just, because we’re so divorced from nature, you and I have talked about this before just off-line, but that’s the number one problem is that people just have no idea how food is produced and what makes a healthy ecosystem. And a lot of the vegans will, the ones who do accept that not all land can be cropped, just want it turned over to be rewilded.

So let’s just crop everything we can possibly crop and then we’ll just rewild all the pastureland with deer or something cute. But then what are we going to do because we’ve eliminated all the predators? I mean even in the town I live in outside of Boston, we have a massive deer problem. And nobody wants hunting because they don’t want to see dead animals on their beautiful hikes around the conservation land here in my town. And if we eliminate the predators, we need to be responsible for how these populations of wild animals are managed. And so the other option, if we’re not going to hunt them, I suppose would be to bring back wolves. I don’t know how.

Chris Kresser:  I don't think that would go over well.

Diana Rodgers:  I don’t know how my waiting for the bus in my town with wolves swirling around at dawn will go over. So it quickly backs them into a very uncomfortable corner there.

Chris Kresser:  I think another thing that you point out that people don’t realize is that 90 percent of what cattle eat is, at least in a natural grazing state, not in a CAFO type of arrangement, is forage and plant leftovers that humans can’t eat.

Diana Rodgers:  Right, exactly. And even in, I mean, I’m not an advocate for feedlot beef, but I think one thing people don’t understand about even cattle that are raised on feedlots, or that are finished on feedlots rather, is that they’re not raised on feedlots.

Chris Kresser:  Right.

Diana Rodgers:  So 85 percent of the beef cattle in the US are actually grazing on land that can't be cropped. And even if they do end up on a feedlot, 90 percent of their total intake is non-edible food to humans. And so they're eating, for example, soybean cakes. But that’s left over from the soybean oil industry.

Chris Kresser:  Right.

Diana Rodgers:  They’re eating large amounts of distiller’s grains, lots of foods that would normally emit greenhouse gases and decompose anyway. Ranchers are also grazing cattle on spent wheat and cornfields. So you know that corn would just decompose and emit greenhouse gases either way. So why not run it through a ruminant gut and make protein out of it?

Chris Kresser:  And fertilizer, as you pointed out.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly, exactly.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah. I mean, it’s so much more nuanced. This is a theme that will probably come up in our conversation a lot is, and I know Robb, Robb and I commiserate about it, and I know you do as well with him. But the vegan narrative is so simple in a lot of ways and it plays into a lot of assumptions, even if they’re wrong, that you don’t really have to explain it to people. It just, people have heard things over and over again. “Meat is bad for the environment, it’s bad for us, therefore eliminate meat from your diet and the food system, and everyone will be healthier.” That’s so easy to understand.

But as Robb has pointed out many times, the counterargument is nuanced and complex. And is not quite as simple to understand and requires that you actually pay attention to some of these finer points. And I think that is one of the challenges that we face in this struggle. But it’s not incomprehensible. I mean, if you just get a few of the simple points like this, it starts to become a lot easier to understand.

Diana Rodgers:  Definitely.  And now my point was … oh, I was going to say too that there's a lot, 50 percent of the carcass of a cow is not eaten but used for other industry uses. So we've got leather, we've got insulin, we’ve got footballs, we’ve got lots of medical applications, fertilizer. So eliminating all animals from our food system, there's a great study I think I sent you this morning that was published in PNAS about what would happen if we eliminated all animals from our food system.

So the greenhouse gas emissions would only decrease by about 2 1/2 percent. But our overall caloric intake would actually go way up, and our nutrient deficiencies would go up. So we already have a problem in our culture where we’re over-consuming calories and not getting enough nutrients. So we would just be making the problem worse for about a 2 percent emission reduction.

The Right Way to Raise Livestock

Chris Kresser:  And those numbers don’t assume any improvement in how cattle are managed, right?

Diana Rodgers:  Right. That was just typical cattle.

Chris Kresser:  Right. So if we actually made improvements in how cattle are managed, do you think there could be a net sequestration of carbon?

Diana Rodgers:  Oh, definitely. So there's been some research coming out of Michigan State showing the difference between continuous grazing and what they term “adaptive multi-paddock grazing,” which is similar to Allan Savory's method, so basically when you intensively graze an area and then move the cattle off quickly.

So, this is how, for example, herds in Africa naturally move because of predator pressure, so it's much worse for the land to have, let's say if you have a 10-acre field and have 100 cattle on that land for the whole summer, as opposed to tightly bunching and moving them frequently and allowing that land to rest. Because that's when carbon gets sequestered, in the regrowth phase of the grass. And so the grass is going through photosynthesis, it’s pulling down carbon and actually exuding carbon sugars to bacteria and to fungal networks that are then passing that grass nutrient. So the fungus is actually mining rocks and getting the minerals from that and feeding it to the grass, and that's how carbon is sequestered. And that process is most effective and actually is a net carbon gain when cattle are managed in this way.

So that's why I like to say “it's not the cow, it’s the how,” because there's just many different ways of raising cattle. Just like there are many different ways of growing broccoli. We can do it in a monocrop system, or we can do it in a more rotational system where we’re integrating it with other crops. And what we need is less monocrops because that's just not how healthy ecosystems work, and farmland is not natural. Like, when you fly over the United States, all those squares you’re looking down at, that's not nature, that's man doing that.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah. I know from your article, you did also a podcast with Frank Mitloehner—is that how you pronounce it? We’ll include a link to that in the show notes because I think people should listen to that. He’s an expert in greenhouse gas emissions and animal agriculture. And you guys talk a lot about what’s really going on there and why some of the typical numbers that are thrown around are not accurate. And if anyone’s interested in a deeper dive, I’d definitely recommend listening to that.

So, greenhouse gas from beef cattle represents, just as it's currently done with no improvements, like you just mentioned, is 2 percent of emissions. And by contrast, transportation is 27 percent. So, yet when I go to WeWork, which I have an office at—

Diana Rodgers:  Oh, gosh.

Chris Kresser:  You probably know this.

Diana Rodgers:  Oh, no.

Chris Kresser:  But some of my listeners might not know that WeWork is a company that has committed to this idea that eating a vegetarian diet will save the planet. And they, I think, so, I was there two days ago on Monday, and they have meatless Monday at WeWork, where they served veggie burgers in the main lounge. And then they print these cards that they post around there, around the office, that say, “If everyone was just a vegetarian for,” I can't remember, “one or two days a week, we would save 450 million pounds of carbon dioxide emissions.” And again, this goes back to the simplicity thing.

Most people get in the elevator, they see that and they're like, “Oh, wow, okay. I guess I should become a vegetarian.” So how does this continue? I mean, it’s not surprising that there’s a disconnect between actual science and what we see in the media. We know that from the nutrition world and everything else. But how do you think this got started? Was there a lot of misunderstanding initially which led to these numbers and then later science kind of brought more clarity? Or what do you think? How have we gotten here?

Diana Rodgers:  Well, I actually just released an amazing podcast on Tuesday of this week, so maybe you could link to that one too, with the guy from Brussels, Frédéric Leroy.

Chris Kresser:  I read some of his papers. You sent them to me awhile back before the Rogan debate.

Where the Misunderstanding around Meat and the Environment Comes From

Diana Rodgers:  Oh, he’s so fantastic. Yeah, so, his opinion is that meat is unfairly absorbing a lot of our worries about our health, our state of our health and the environment, because meat is so powerful and can absorb it. But it's unfairly the scapegoat for our stressors. So, everyone just, it's much easier for us to blame meat than it is to perhaps look at our transportation industry and be uncomfortable about that. I mean, the main funder of that EAT-Lancet paper has a private jet and transportation was never mentioned in the EAT-Lancet.

Chris Kresser:  I don’t know if this is accurate, but I read something about how just the jet trips for the reporter would have a bigger impact on the environment than the diet changes that they were talking about.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly, exactly. And so, in Livestock’s Long Shadow, that's when a lot of this all started. The mass information about the emissions with cattle. And unfortunately, when they did that study, what they did was they looked at all the emissions, the full lifecycle of ruminant animals. They looked at production of the feed, all the transportation, all the emissions, everything. And when they compared that to transportation, they only looked at tailpipe exhaust. So they didn't even factor in transportation, for example, in the transportation numbers.

And so when you look at the global numbers at emissions of cattle versus transportation, you're looking at apples to oranges there. So you're looking at the full lifecycle of a beef animal compared to just the tailpipe emissions from transportation. So that's not fair. And also in other countries, the percentage is a little bit higher. But that's in places where maybe transportation plays a lesser role where there are less cars per cow. And so, their relative emissions may be higher. But that's again not taking into account the fact that cattle can actually sequester carbon and many, many other factors. And so the authors of Livestock’s Long Shadow did reduce their numbers, I think, from 18 to 14 percent and did admit that their numbers were still off because of the transportation. There are no global lifecycle papers on transportation.

But yet that 18 percent, I’ve heard even 50 percent. I don't even know where that number comes from, but that, the 50 percent is the number that's often cited by this group called Green Mondays and they are the ones that have worked with Berkeley to make all of the government meetings meatless on Mondays. That organization, I’ve looked into, and they’re actually funded by an organization out of Singapore that produces plant-based pork.

Chris Kresser:  Right.

Diana Rodgers:  And so there’s a lot, the environment and ethics and even the nutrition argument is very convenient for large food companies to profit, because processing means profit.

Chris Kresser:  Well, let’s talk a little bit about that, and since we’re on the topic, I do want to come back to some of the other ways that an animal-based food system or food system that includes animals can actually benefit biodiversity and things like that. So yeah, follow the money. We talk about that a lot on this show. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but on the other hand, you'd be very naïve and misguided to assume that money doesn't play a big role in setting food policy and coming up with these laws. It always has.

Protein and the EAT-Lancet Diet

And it probably always will. And if you look at the EAT-Lancet diet, I think this is from Marty Kendall's analysis, you’ll find that 32 percent of calories come from rice, wheat, and corn, and 14 percent come from unsaturated oils. So these are highly processed foods.

Diana Rodgers:  Right.

Chris Kresser:  We’re not talking about corn on the cob.

Diana Rodgers:  Or wheat berries.

Chris Kresser:  Wheat berries. Or even, like, in some cases, just the whole-grain rice. We’re talking about highly processed corn and wheat and rice derivatives, and then highly processed industrial seed oils that comprise almost 50 percent of calories. And who does that benefit? This study was sponsored by a basically hit list A-team of—

Diana Rodgers:  Processed food companies.

Chris Kresser:  Global processed food companies—DuPont, PepsiCo, Dannon, Nestlé, Cargill, Kellogg's. So, like, food and agricultural companies that make their money by selling processed and refined foods. And so that's very revealing.

And then the other thing that Marty Kendall pointed out, which is directly tied to this, is that this diet, when you work out the macronutrient ratios, it ends up being low in protein and moderate in fat and carbohydrates. And there are really no foods in nature that fit that profile, or very few. You have breast milk and acorns, I think, are the two that he pointed out. And this is a recipe for, that macronutrient mix of low protein and then higher fat and carbohydrate is a recipe for highly palatable and rewarding food. So if you look at the foods that are on this list that fit that profile, there are things like chocolate milk, potato chips, French toast, waffles, ice cream, pancakes.

Diana Rodgers:  Kit-Kat.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, biscuits, Kit-Kat, Twix, chocolate chip cookies, pie crust. I mean, are you kidding me? This is the macronutrient profile that we should be following? Oh, who does not benefit? All of the companies that make these processed foods. So it's really revealing when you look at it from that perspective.

Diana Rodgers:  I know. And I think it's really irresponsible to promote a diet that's about 10 percent in protein when we have, I mean, just in America, more than 50 percent of Americans are metabolically broken and really benefit from much higher protein levels.

Chris Kresser:  Increasing their protein. And we know that of all the macronutrients, protein is the one that has the biggest impact on satiety.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly.

Chris Kresser:  Which it will reduce the likelihood that people overeat, which many Americans are doing.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah.

Chris Kresser:  And any clinician or dietitian like yourself who's worked with people knows if they're struggling with weight, putting them on a higher-protein diet is probably the most important thing you can do. And there's even some, if you look at the studies on low-carb diets, I think probably one of the reasons, if not one of the main reasons, that they’re so effective is that they’re higher in protein.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, and I have to say too, so I actually have recently been following Marty Kendall's NutrientOptimiser diet personally, just as an experiment to try to maximize my micronutrients. And I eat really well. I live on a farm. I have a lot of education in nutrient density. I have access to all these foods. It's really hard to get all your micronutrients in the day. But it's really easy to feel satiated when you have a high percentage of animal protein in your diet. So whether that's oysters, which I know I can beat his leaderboard if I just eat a ton of oysters in one day.

Chris Kresser:  That’s right. That’s right.

Diana Rodgers:  But liver, and then just regular old animal protein. Filling the rest of your diet with colorful vegetables is the way to go. But it still, I still was low, actually, believe it or not, in iron, even with all the protein I’ve been consuming on this diet.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, I’m always talking to my patients about a lot of, especially if they’re favoring like chicken and fish, and not eating shellfish or organ meats, is that some muscle meats are not that high in iron. So it’s organ meats and shellfish that are really the powerhouses from that perspective.

And this brings up another question about bioavailability, right? Because we’ve both talked about this a lot. It's not at all the case that protein from plant sources like legumes is going to be absorbed in the same way that protein is absorbed from animal foods like meat and eggs and fish and dairy products. There is something called the … there are various scoring systems that are used in the scientific literature to assess the bioavailability of protein. And no matter what scoring system you use, animal proteins come out ahead of plant proteins, and usually by a very large margin.

Diana Rodgers:  And, I mean, trying to get your protein from beans and rice, if you’re trying to do the combining in order to get the right profile of amino acids, you would, so I did the calculations. So in order to get the right amount, the same amount of protein you would get from a four-ounce steak, which is 181 calories, you’d need to eat 12 ounces of beans and a cup of rice. So that’s 638 calories and 122 grams of carbs. And you're still not getting the same beautiful profile of amino acids that you can get from this 181-calorie piece of steak.

Chris Kresser:  Right, which goes back to Marty Kendall's point where you’re basically, if you eat a low-protein diet, it’s going to be a much higher-calorie diet in most cases.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, and higher carb and just setting people down to the road towards metabolic disorder.

The Impact Agriculture Has on the Environment

Chris Kresser:  Yeah. So let’s go back now. I want to finish up talking about the impact of animals in the food system. Because I think there's still some other points that are worth going into here that a lot of people may not be familiar with. So one is, we talked about how not all land is suitable for grazing. But let’s talk about maybe the flipside of that is what happens when you use a lot of land for crops like corn and rice and soy and wheat?

Diana Rodgers:  Right, I mean a lot of, and most of this is not organically grown and using animals to graze in all of that. So the large majority of our monocrops are heavily sprayed with chemicals that leave a residue on the leaves that we’re ingesting. And also completely sterilize the soil and create runoff that then ends up in the Mississippi River and creating massive dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico.

So there are just so many problems with monocropping the way we’re doing it today. We have created an insect apocalypse. And so we’ve lost pollinators. We’re killing fish, which in turn then kills the animals that need to be eating the fish. And so we’re annihilating biodiversity both above and below ground. And so one teaspoon of soil has more microbes in it than all of the humans on earth. And when we spray it with things like Roundup, we’re completely killing all of that. And so we've destroyed just so much of our soil and so much of it is also just blowing away and running off.

So, I mean, the Dust Bowl was a good example of that, and we’re headed for another one right now. So according to the United Nations, we have about 60 harvests left, at the rate we’re going.

Chris Kresser:  This is alarming. This is like an emergency thing on the level that's part of climate change, of course, but also on the same level as potential for water shortages. People, I don't think, are … I mean, some people are aware of it, of course, but we’re talking about some very, very serious implications here.

Diana Rodgers:  And when the soil is compacted and we’re constantly just stripping away the biodiversity of the soil, when rain comes, it just washes all the topsoil away into rivers, and that's how we get these really cloudy rivers. Because rivers in general should be clear. And in a system where we have healthy ruminants managed in a proper way, the soil acts like a sponge and can actually hold a lot more water from rain, instead of allowing it to just wash off and take the topsoil with it. My husband is so into topsoil that even we have two border collies, and they sleep in our mudroom at night. And they come in, they’re black and white, but their white parts are really dirty-looking at the end of the day.

Chris Kresser:  Brown.

Diana Rodgers:  And in the morning they’re totally white and they leave massive amounts of soil on the ground. And I literally have to sweep it up and put it in the field because that’s how into topsoil he is.

Chris Kresser:  Well, yeah, and how precious it is too.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly, exactly. And just nobody is looking at our farmland as a biological system. It’s been reduced to this reductionist chemical, let’s produce as many calories as possible, which is ruining our health and our land.

Chris Kresser:  Let’s talk a little bit also about how ruminants can improve biodiversity. I mean, we touched on that just briefly, but water is a big issue, and I know that cattle can improve water holding capacity of the land. And that has a whole bunch of downstream effects.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. And also too, even the worst-managed cattle on overgrazed grass is still a better system than monocrop grain. So you still, I mean, and even in a better system, you've got butterflies, you've got birds, you've got all kinds of life above ground and below ground that are teeming.

The whole goal, what people don't realize, is that we want as much life as possible. And our current system is actually making sure that we’re annihilating as much life as possible. So if we look at the extinction process that's been happening over the last 50 years, again, it's something completely alarming. I know Silent Spring came out and people were all up in arms. But the solution is not a vegetarian solution. So Diet for a Small Planet is outdated information, and what we need is more better cattle, not no cattle.

Chris Kresser:  It’s not the cow, it’s the how.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly. And not only that too, another thing I brought up is what these rich white people in Sweden were not paying attention to is that livestock are really important to the majority of people living in poverty in the world in places where, what are you going to do in Kenya where it’s super arid and the Maasai have been herding cattle forever and ever? And we’re going to tell them that they need to go grow soybeans? With what seeds? Are they going to have to go buy them from Monsanto? Where are they going to get the water to irrigate? Where are they going to get the fertilizer if they can’t have animals? So I think it’s bordering on racist to have a grain-heavy diet as a global policy for the entire world.

Chris Kresser:  But we can just make more Cheetos.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly, exactly.

Chris Kresser:  That’s probably the plan, part of the plan here. It’s really—

Diana Rodgers:  Well, to get them reliant on our aid. I mean, we’re already ruining Haiti with our rice that we’re giving to them. We’ve ruined their local economies, we’ve ruined their health. Now rice is a much higher percentage of their diet. Very few Haitians are actually growing their own food anymore. And it’s a really great way that we can control governments. I mean, that’s a whole other thing that we don’t have to get too much into. But it really makes me mad, the idea that we’re taking away people’s innate ability to be self-reliant.

Chris Kresser:  Not to mention the very clearly documented health impacts that are observed when traditional peoples adopt the Western food system.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly, exactly. And I have an image on my post. So, the Canadian government decided that they knew best, advising a local Inuit population that they should be eating a Mediterranean diet. Which I think is just, I mean, this one image of this igloo showing all of their nutrient-dense traditional foods in the red category and bananas and oranges and orange juice in the green category. I mean that just sums up exactly how wrong we’ve gotten our dietary advice just in this one image.

Chris Kresser:  Absolutely. And if those poor kids start following that diet, they’re going to become morbidly obese.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah.

Chris Kresser:  And this is seen. It’s been documented in so many different areas where traditional populations start to follow the government-sponsored diet, including Native Americans in the US.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly.

Chris Kresser:  So, like the Pima, for example.

The Problem with Lab-Grown Meat and Meat Tax

Chris Kresser: So let's talk about some of the other proposals that are floating around that are based on this idea that meat is bad for us nutritionally and bad for the environment, which as I hope we’ve shown in this podcast, is misguided and others. But why not just make meat in a lab? Let’s say you accept that meat, animal protein is more bioavailable and so we do need meat, which some people seem to have accepted. But then why not just grow it in a lab and—

Diana Rodgers:  Reduce suffering.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, reduce suffering and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. All of that. Yeah. And of course, make billions of dollars from the companies that are successful at doing that.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, and I think another thing.

Chris Kresser:  Nothing wrong with that per say, but yeah. There’s some financial motivation there perhaps.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. I’m so glad I don’t live where you live. I was actually just out there a couple days ago, and I’m, like, so happy that I’m not living there. Because that’s, like, the hotbed of all of this.

Chris Kresser:  Sure. You just have to be a hermit like me and live up on my hilltop.

Diana Rodgers:  And just go to WeWork and get mad at WeWork in the halls and elevators.

Chris Kresser:  Yep.

Diana Rodgers:  So, I mean, it’s really interesting, the lab meat thing, because I had a woman on my podcast about a year and a half ago who was a big vegan animal rights person telling me how great lab meat was. And I asked her if she knew how it was made, and she had no idea. But she was like, she’s like a really big deal animal rights activist and very vocal about how lab meat is a good solution. And interestingly, most vegans actually won't even accept it because you're using fetal bovine serum in order to make it, which is not “vegan” anyway.

But what folks aren’t realizing, number one, is that it relies on this horrible monocrop system, which is ruining our environment and a completely inefficient way of producing food on so many levels. But then the lifestyle assessments I've read are a lot based on projections because they haven't built the bioreactors yet. So they're making a lot of assumptions, but even the assumptions are so bad that the energy required in order to transform what they're using right now as the substrate.

So corn and soy, sometimes wheat, into protein, the amount of energy required for that is enormous. And when we have animals that can actually just do this on their own without having to be plugged into an outlet is really amazing. Plus, what they're not taking into consideration is the amount of antibiotics that they’ll need to prevent bacterial overgrowth because they’re growing these at just the perfect temperature for meat to grow. But of course that's also the perfect temperature for bacteria to grow as well.

Chris Kresser:  Everything else.

Diana Rodgers:  Cancerous cells, all these things. They had not figured out how to striate the meat with fats. There's a lot of input that we’re running out of that you need in order, there’s a lot of minerals that are being mined in war-torn countries that, actually the US military is, like, guarding these mines in order to get those raw materials in order to pump it into these cellular meat company facilities. So the whole system is energetically ridiculous, and it's not even causing less harm.

So that's my big argument, too, is that when you look at how many lives are lost from the loss of biodiversity, of taking a native ecosystem, plowing it up to make it into a cornfield, and then spraying it to make sure that nothing other than corn, not even mice or anything can grow there. The amount of life lost for that system versus one animal, one large ruminant animal. A cow can provide almost 500 pounds of meat. I just don't think the trade-offs are worth it at all from an ethical or environmental perspective.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, another situation where the devil is in the details, right?

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah.

Chris Kresser:  Because on the fact of it, lab meat sounds, “Hey, why not?” Like, if we can do that and we can make it taste the same … But clearly including that woman that you interviewed on your podcast, that was kind of the level that she was approaching it on, without actually looking into the details. It sounds pretty good on the surface, so why not advocate it. But then when you look into it, you find it’s a little more complicated.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. I’ve been really loving The Wizard and the Prophet, Robb sent that over to me.

Chris Kresser:  I read that just recently.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, I think he told me.

Chris Kresser:  I sent it to Robb.

Diana Rodgers:  Yes, exactly, so I’m thanking you. I’m thanking you for the chain because I have my hands on it. And I’ve been not only reading the book, but then when I’m in my car or at the gym, I’m listening to it. So it’s really fantastic, and I think that that is at the crux of what we’re dealing with right now. Do we look at this, what some would call Luddite perspective of nature through Hoyt, or … I’m sorry. What was his name? Now I’m forgetting.

Chris Kresser:  Vogt.

Diana Rodgers:  Voight. Vogt.

Chris Kresser:  Vogt. Yeah, you want to say Voight because it’s usually an i in there, but it’s V-o-g-t, so it’s Vogt, yeah.

Diana Rodgers:  Or do we look at this more wizard tech solution? And that’s just where most people are right now.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, that’s the dominant cultural paradigm is we’ve gone into wizardry, for sure.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, yes.

Chris Kresser:  No question about that. Back when Silent Spring was written, I think there was more, Vogt was more in vogue. There was a little bit more concern about the wizardry and the impact it would have. And now we are 100 percent in wizardry.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. And the problem is, everyone’s just sort of hoping that more rabbits will be pulled out of the hat. But we don't know for sure.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, yeah. I highly recommend this book. This is Charles Mann, who wrote 1491 and 1493, which, if anyone has read those books about … it totally changed our view on how the New World was discovered and colonized and what was here when those people arrived. Which is much different than what was previously believed. He’s a fantastic writer and this is I think, one of the most compelling views on where we are as a society now and what our future might hold. So highly recommend it.

Getting back to the topic, I mean, that's obviously germane and relevant here, but I want to talk about a few other proposals that are being floated around here. Which are again, if you accept what we've talked about here and in other podcasts, are off base. But the meat tax. There’s been a lot of enthusiasm for this because there’s some research that, beverage tax, soda taxes have been effective in terms of reducing consumption. So this is now something that’s being seriously proposed in the EAT-Lancet. I think that’s part of the agenda of the EAT-Lancet paper and authors and reporters.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, and actually they released another paper just on Sunday night of this week that goes even more strongly into the meat tax. I think the goal is to make it basically impossible to eat meat moving forward. And effectively, I’ve looked at the models. There was a good paper that looked at what would happen, just kind of projected out, what might happen in this situation. And, actually, red meat consumption wouldn’t go down at all.

And it basically is just a poor tax is what this is. And when you look at, I actually took a picture. I had to run into a typical grocery store and pick something up one time, and I noticed the shopping cart of the person in front of me. And it was soda and donuts and whoopie pies and all stuff like that. But her deli meat and her bacon were actually the most nutrient-dense things in her cart.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, so that would be encouraging even less healthy choices in people who are of limited economic means. And you mentioned this in the beginning about the private jet people who are founding this study, and you brought it up in your article. There really is a classist kind of thing that’s happening here that’s not part of the popular narrative. Because if we really wanted to reduce carbon footprint, you pointed out a meta-analysis that suggested that doing things like avoiding one round-trip transatlantic flight, more of a car-free lifestyle, having one less child in an industrialized nation would have by far bigger impact than reducing your consumption of beef.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. Or changing your diet in any way.

Chris Kresser:  And who’s doing a lot of round-trip transatlantic flying? People who are at a certain socioeconomic level. And so, yeah, a lot of these proposals are like, “Let me continue to live my carbon-emitting lifestyle, and then let’s introduce changes that won’t effect that but actually will impact people who are poor and in a really adverse way without really me having to change anything as a privileged person.”

Diana Rodgers:  Right, and, I mean, in order to do vegan right, you kind of do need to be a celebrity or an uber-rich person that, if there is a way to do vegan, right? But, I mean, to … there’s a lot of food prep involved, there’s a lot of time involved. There’s a lot of time spent eating.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, chewing.

Diana Rodgers:  Chewing, right? Your typical person that maybe gets two 15-minute breaks a day is not going to be able to chew the food or have a staff that can make the cashew cream to make all the—

Chris Kresser:  Or buy the cashew cream for $9.49 for a half pint or whatever it is.

Diana’s Upcoming Docuseries, Sacred Cow

Diana Rodgers:  Right, right. I mean, this film project I’m working on, we’ve done a lot of filming in Indiana, rural Indiana. And I see what these folks have as options for stores on limited budgets and what they’re buying. And honestly, processed food, processed meats like sausages that are pre-cooked are a lot easier for them to eat and are honestly the most nutrient-dense thing that they're eating. Because they’re not doing a whole lot of scratch cooking. They don’t have a lot of time or energy at the end of the day. So when life is really hard and you’re working really hard, you don’t have the privilege to push away something nutrient-dense like meat.

Chris Kresser:  Absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about the film. I know it's gone through a lot of iterations and there’s been some wins and some challenges. So tell me, let's start with a little bit of the idea and the inspiration behind it. Why we both feel that this is important to get out there and then maybe a little update where you’re at, what you’re needing, what would be helpful. We have a lot of folks who are listening, who I know want to be a part of this movement in some way.

And I’m often asked by people who are not necessarily in the health field, people who are not nutritionists or Functional Medicine practitioners or anything, like, “How can I help? How can I get involved? How can I use my existing skills or connections or resources to move this forward?” So let's imagine what kind of help we need or could be useful to move this forward, and who knows who’s out there listening.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah. So, I was halfway through writing a book on this subject on the nutritional, environmental, and ethical case for meat when yet another vegan film came out about a year and a half ago. And I was like, “If this guy can make a movie, I can make a movie.” And so that’s kind of how it all started. I did a crowd funder that was pretty successful, and we got rolling. At the time, the project was called Kale versus Cow. And we started filming some of these nutrition stories. We hooked up with a doctor who has some amazing clinical trials and is doing really good work in a pretty rural part of the Midwest, conveniently corn country. But there's also farmers who are plowing in their corn and turning it back to grass.

So there’s some really great stories happening there. And some of the feedback I got from the title Kale versus Cow was that, “This sounds like another vegan film,” or, “It sounds like I’m against kale,” which as you know, I’m not against kale. But I think folks maybe that don't know me as well just had these misperceptions, and the name was a little bit of a hang-up for them. So we went back to the drawing board a little bit and changed the title to Sacred Cow, which I think works really nicely, also because there’s a double meaning of sacred cow. Because the vilification of beef is just so embedded in our system.

Chris Kresser:  Yes.

Diana Rodgers:  And, I mean, even when I was going through my graduate program in dietetics, red meat is not okay. It's just not, even though in biochem it's totally fine if you just look at it from an objective scientific perspective. And the project has also transformed from a feature film into a docuseries because we felt that it’s a more digestible way, literally, to get this information across, and there's also more that we wanted to cover that we didn't feel would fit into the narrative of one film.

And so we were now looking at a multipart docuseries still addressing mostly the nutritional, environmental, and ethical aspects of the reason why we need animals in our food system. I'm also very interested in sort of the anthropology of how meat became such a polarizing topic today and how people identify their whole being around how much meat they consume in their diet. The flexitarian, vegan, whatever.

Chris Kresser:  Yep.

Diana Rodgers:  And I still am working on the book. So, as you know, Robb is the coauthor on the book project I’m working on, and he’s the co-executive producer on the film project. But the funding has been a little bit of a challenge. I don’t know if people really get how important this is, and I think it’s one of the reasons why the Unitarian church is not funded well. Because it's, like, trying to extract money out of atheists is a hard thing.

When people are super-passionately committed and religiously committed like vegans, where it’s, like, their religion, they’ll passionately fund things. But then when people are kind of cool with everything and they’re eating meat and they’re like, “Yeah, got my health under control now. That’s great. And if the vegans don’t want to eat meat, fine, that’s more for me.” That’s really kind of the attitude I’m running into a little bit.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah people are less identified with it, which is good, in their way.

Diana Rodgers:  It’s good.

Chris Kresser:  But not as good when you’re trying to raise money for a movie like this.

Diana Rodgers:  Right, yeah.

Chris Kresser:  And I think the other part of it is, I don’t know that people really perceive the threat fully yet. It’s like you just said, they’re like, “If someone wants to be vegan, fine. No skin off my back and it’s not going to hurt me. So there’s no pressing need to fund a film about this. Because who cares if someone’s a vegan.” Well, yeah, on an individual level, you might say that. Even though we could argue that you should care if someone chooses an approach that’s in many cases likely to make them nutrient deficient.

But, yes, each person, of course, has the right to choose their own approach. And I don’t go around trying to proselytize and convert vegans to eating animal foods unless they ask me what I think they should do if they come see me as a patient. But this isn't just about individual choice here. Because, as we know, we talked about the meat tax proposition, and this is going to affect food policy. It's already affected food policy in the US and around the world which then will affect schools. And what happens at schools, which influences our children and the choices that they make.

You know, my daughter is seven and a half, and she comes home with some really interesting things that she's heard from other kids and even teachers at school. And she doesn't go to a typical school, but this is, it’s everywhere. Yeah.

Diana Rodgers:  Exactly. And there’s a lot of schools now eliminating meat for health, and I think a lot of parents are kind feeling a little worried about meat consumption. And so maybe they're thinking, “Well, at least they’re getting a healthy meal at school.” And so that's concerning to me because for a lot of kids this is the most nutrient-dense meal of their day. And to blame it on meat is just wrong. And I kept telling folks, this is coming and meat tax is coming.

And I, for a while, was feeling like maybe I’m just nuts and I’m making all this up. I don’t know. But then of course, it is really coming. The EAT-Lancet paper is here. Meat tax is being discussed. We’ve got, LA now is trying to force restaurants and LAX to provide, to tell private businesses to provide vegan entrees. We’ve got Berkeley with Meatless Mondays now at all city meetings.

Chris Kresser:  WeWork.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, WeWork, exactly. There’s airlines now that are eliminating red meat. And so this is coming at us from our clinicians, our universities, we’re hearing this from the World Health Organization. We’re hearing this from business, from the media. Constant films, there's more coming out this year.

I think I just sent you another one that’s on its way out that I’m pretty concerned about. Because it actually has people with MD behind their name. And nobody is pushing back and people are just taking this really lightly. And so, yeah, anything that folks can do to help me get this off the ground, I’d want to come out and feature you, Chris. And I’ve got a lot of really great experts in both the sustainability and health space that very strongly feel that red meat is important to our food system.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah. And the reality is that a film or in a docuseries can make a huge impact than even a book.

Diana Rodgers:  That you can’t do with a book. I know.

Chris Kresser:  It doesn’t work. I mean, I’ve written a 400-plus page book with all the science that you need to, I think, get clear that animal food should be part of our diet in addition to plant foods. But how many people are going to read a 400-page book? Not that many. And there’s still something about film that makes it a very viral medium. It’s more accessible, a docuseries is an increasingly popular format, as you said.

It's easier to cover the wide range of topics that you need to hit on for this, and it's a format that has been used for vegan and other types of films or media. And it’s something that’s just really easy to share with. People are more likely to sit down at night and watch an episode of this than they are to read a book.

Diana Rodgers:  Yeah, exactly. And this is pretty dense material. But if I can just show people what a healthy ecosystem looks like and how cattle raised in the right way, what that looks like compared to a 2,000-acre field of soy being grown for lab meat, I think that those are really powerful visuals.

Chris Kresser:  Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. So if someone is listening to this and the alarm has been raised in their mind, and they’re now aware of the real risk here to our families and communities, and they want to get involved in some way, what's the best way for them to do that?

Diana Rodgers:  So I have more information, and I’m taking donations on sustainabledish.com/film. And for any better meat companies or folks that want to get involved in a bigger way, folks can just message me directly through the site. And we’re working with a few better meat companies and other large donors and foundations. But we still need to, these are expensive, and there are some inexpensive ways of making docuseries.

But in order for us to really get on the mainstream media channels like Netflix, we have to do something that's beautiful and has a high production value and isn't a $50,000 handheld camera project. And so, while the budget isn’t exorbitant, it’s certainly higher than some of the other more budget docuseries that have been coming out. And that's largely because I'm really tired of going to high schools and doing damage control when they show these vegan propaganda films. Because that's what's happening right now.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, absolutely. And will continue to happen, as you pointed out. The momentum there is only building. So we need to, I think, step up to the plate.

Diana Rodgers:  Thank you so much.

Chris Kresser:  Thank you for doing this work, Diana. I really appreciate your advocacy and passion for this, and it shows through in everything that you do. And I hope for all of you listening that this has been up maybe a bit of a wake-up call and you have a little more perspective on what's going on behind the scenes. And even less left behind, like more out in the open now, I think, more and more. Especially with this EAT-Lancet paper, and you see that science is not objective and dispassionate in many cases, but actually quite agenda driven and that there are often interests aligned behind those agendas that may not represent your interests. Like global food companies that want to sell more of their processed and refined products.

So none of us are not impacted by this in some way. And if you have children and family members who are getting exposed to all of this material, it's really important to have a counterpoint that we can offer that is well researched and really hits on the most important issues. And people can change their mind. I mean, your story that you shared with the publisher of the China study was really revealing. To his credit, to whoever that publisher editor was, to his credit. He was able to take in that information and open his mind and give this a chance. And we both, of course, know many people that that’s happened with. I have lots of patients, lots of readers and listeners who were vegan and vegetarian at one point. I was vegan and vegetarian at one point, as everybody knows who’s listened to this show for a while.

And it was through exposure to research and information like what we’re talking about on this show and what you plan to present on the film that actually changed their minds. Because I think that may also be part of the resistance in some cases, like for raising money with this film. It’s like the idea that people are just not going to change their minds. That it’s, we can’t really make an impact. But I don’t agree with that. I think we can make a huge impact and already have, and we just need to scale it up so that it can reach more people.

Diana Rodgers:  I agree.

Chris Kresser:  So sustainabledish.com/film. We will also put some of the links to the podcast and articles that we mentioned, the critiques of EAT-Lancet, Marty Kendall’s and also yours, Diana. And then if you want that big storehouse of information I put together for the Rogan show, which has articles on nutrient density and meat and the effects of meat, and carbohydrate, macronutrients, a ton of stuff, that’s at ChrisKresser.com/Rogan. So thanks, everybody, for listening. Thank you, Diana.

Diana Rodgers:  Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it, Chris. And thanks for all your support ever since I first met you.

Chris Kresser:  It's my pleasure, and I hope we can, with this podcast, move things forward a little bit more quickly and get this out there. Because it really needs to be seen. So thanks, everyone, for listening and please do continue to send in your questions to ChrisKresser.com/podcastquestion. And I’ll talk to you next time.

The post RHR: What the EAT-Lancet Paper Gets Wrong, with Diana Rodgers appeared first on Chris Kresser.

Source: http://chriskresser.com February 26, 2019 at 05:55PM

[wtnv-panels]

Good Morning Night Vale, episode 5: “Good Morning the Shape in Grove Park”

Symphony: Close your eyes. Let my words wash over you.

Meg: You are safe now.

Hal: Good morning, Night Vale.

Meg: Hello and welcome to Good Morning Night Vale, episode 5, “The Shape in Grove Park”. So my name is Meg Bashwiner, I am your tri-host, co-host, what do you call it when there’s three of us?

Hal: Throst?

Symphony: Three…

Meg: Throst?

Symphony: Aa-aa, I was thinking that too.

Meg: And I am joined today by the beautiful Symphony Sanders…

Symphony: It’s me!

Meg: And the beautiful Hal Lublin.

Hal: That’s me.

Meg: And we’re here to talk to you. We’re here to talk to you.

Hal: We’re just here to talk, but you know what? We also wanna listen.

Symphony: [chuckles]

Hal: That’s not gonna work for this show.

Meg: Let’s all listen right now.

Hal: Alright, let’s just listen for half an hour. [long beat] Has it been 30 minutes?

Symphony: That would be terrible.

Meg: Yeah, felt like it.

Hal: Yeah, that felt like 30 minutes of listening.

Symphony: So hey guys! What are we, what do we do in this show, huh?

Meg: We recap and chat about episodes of the hit popular podcast, This American Life, no.

Symphony: Is that popular?

Meg: It was, it was like one of the first podcasts, but I don’t think anyone listens, I don’t think they make that anymore.

Hal: I’m just glad a show exists where somebody recaps and analyzes Joe Rogan’s podcast, and we are those three people!

Meg: No we’re here to analyze and recap the hit popular podcast Welcome to Night Vale.

Hal: That too.

Meg: And this week we’re talking about “The Shape in Grove Park”, which is described as “A protest against the removal of the shape in Grove Park that no one acknowledges or speaks about, plus changes to the school curriculum, a growing tarantula problem in town, and musical auditions”. So that’s a pretty hefty description for lots of things that happen this episode.

Symphony: There are lots of things that happen in this one. Well, first of all, the fact that it’s called the shape and is a shape in, that Cecil repeatedly asked to get a statement from it, and sometimes it quivers or something, but that freaks me out a little. I don’t know about you guys.

Hal: That scared you? Did you get a little scared listening to it? It’s creepy.

Symphony: Well-

Hal: There is a creepy experience to like when you listen to it, especially with headphones, because like the sound picture being painted is so specific that it can, it can creep you out.

Meg: Yeah absolutely. So we’re talking about “The Shape in Grove Park”, so there’s this monument, this landmark, which reminded right away of the removal of confederate statues.

Symphony: [chuckles] Right!

Meg: I was like, this is another one of those like creepy foreshadowing to the public removal of statues where in this case it’s like, no one talks about it or acknowledges it but it’s still really important. That’s kind of the vibe there whereas with confederate statues, we all talk about it and it’s important and we should tear them down, but… [laughter] It’s this kind of similar discussion about public space and monuments and interacting with them.

Symphony: Yes and the City Council isn’t very helpful with all of that at all. Aren’t they trying to make sure, they’re trying to save it right, so they end up putting it in front of the studio in and trouble ensues, obviously.

Meg: Yes. So this is kind of a monumental, monument, monumental episode in the sense that this is where Cecil gets a name.

Symphony: Oh right!

Meg: This is where Cecil gets the name Cecil.

Symphony: I always forget about that, that he’s just like nameless narrator until a certain point. But he still doesn’t have a last name.

Meg: No. And he doesn’t get a last name for a bit. And then he gets a middle name.

Symphony: Yes.

Hal: There is something interesting to this that this is the first time he really gets an identity for the listener in terms of a first name, but the thing that struck me about that it even though there are a lot of things that happen is that it’s just his existential struggle. Like that’s the thing, that was my biggest takeaway from it and the thing that struck me is how well constructed that was, and then it didn’t need to, I mean it has a place in the larger continuum, but it also can exist on its own, just that particular plot line of him struggling like, am I the only one here, for all I know nobody’s listening or. I just, that was something that I was really drawn to and and, just very well written and well executed.

Symphony: Yeah I loved that idea of him possibly being alone in this universe, to something that’s not even connected to anything or anyone else. I mean, haven’t we all felt like that at one moment or another?

Meg: Yes.

Hal: Oh sure.

Meg: (God).

Symphony: [chuckles] Just…

Meg: So yeah, that’s the plot point that launched a thousand theories, conspiracy theories about this show.

Symphony: Yes. [laughter]

Meg: Cecil is alone. There’s been heat death of the world and Cecil is all that is left, alone in his empty universe.

Symphony: Yeah or it’s just, even that he’s like in this all by himself or it’s in his head kind of thing, I’ve seen a lot of those theories on Tumblr and whatnot over the years, so that’s always been really fun.

Meg: I thought this was one of the funnier episodes, I think this is they’re really starting to find their rhythm with their writing structure, their joke structure for how this show works, and this episode is very funny. There’s lots of really interesting things that are done with writing, like when they talk about the tarantula problem. Which is, [chuckling] there’s just so many different things that happen in that paragraph…

Symphony: Teen pregnancy.

Meg: ..teach a spider to read, teen pregnancy teach a spider to read, stop the madness.

Symphony: [chuckles] Yeah.

Meg: It’s just like it just keeps, things just keep happening in that paragraph that keep turning it on its head.

Symphony: Yeah and I love that they are, yes they do find their humor in this, and Cecil starts becoming more of a fleshed out character, you can hear in Cecil’s voice acting even. Like, he starts getting a little bit more into his higher ranges, which is always very fun for me to hear, ‘cause it just is more light-hearted than just like..

Hal: Yeah.

Symphony: ..the announcer, I mean Cecil has a gorgeous timbre to his voice already. But when, you know you’re adding these other levels to this person, you are really fleshing out a character.

Meg: Absolutely, we are starting to kind of land in Cecil now that are, this is yeah we’re at this point we’re five episodes in, and so we’ve learned a lot about the world of Night Vale, we’re learning a little bit about the character of Cecil, and then just the continual world building that we’re getting. Michael Sandero gets his second head.

Symphony: That’s more attractive.

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Yeah.

Meg: That his mother prefers, so.

Hal: And puts, I love that she has a list out on, a public list, ranking of her children that goes out in front of her house for everybody to see.

Symphony: In the front yard! [laughs] If only, I mean Hal, you’re an only child, right?

Hal: True.

Symphony: So you’ve never really had to deal with this, but Meg you have a sister as I have a brother. And there is always that sneaking suspicion of who’s like, the more beloved. [laughs]

Hal: Do you think it’s you?

Symphony: No, I think my brother is the more beloved, in a different way.

Meg: Yeah. I think my sister and I kind of trade that position, like over the years in our life we’ve kind of traded that role several times back and forth about who’s the favorite. So we’re just hoping for many more years of trading off who’s the good one, so… [laughs]

Symphony: Can you imagine tho if your parents put that in the front yard for everybody to see it’s like, this is my favorite kid and this is my least favorite kid?

Meg: At least you’d know where you stand, you know.

Symphony: I guess so. It’s all (that truthfulness).

Meg: Which is kind of interesting, ‘cause in my family you know where you stand. There’s like…

Symphony: [laughs]

Meg: We’re not really a passive aggressive bunch, we're pretty much an aggressive aggressive bunch [laughter]. So you know when you’re on top and you know when you’re not.

Symphony: [laughs] Oh. Well, what if you grew another head and it was more attractive or people liked that head better, how would you feel about that? It’s not even just like your sibling, it’s like on your own body, like that’s adding insult to injury, now?

Meg: Do you have to do its makeup or does it do it on its own?

Symphony: Well I guess if you share a body, the body has to do all the work. Like the, right? Like maybe you only get one arm like, the left head gets the left arm and the right head, that would be really tough for your eyeliner, I can’t wing with the same hand.

Meg: Yeah. I do most of the stuff with my right hand. The thing that would probably bother me the most is that I would have to share the, the real estate of my body with someone else, like I feel like I’m barely getting by being a clumsy person with the stuff that I’m working with and to have to share that with another entity that would just be, I’d fall down every flight of stairs, I would not be able to chop an onion. [laughter] Symphony: Well and this gets into the territory of Siamese twins, guys.

Meg: Here we are. Episode 5, we finally got there.

Hal: Finally. I can’t wait, this is welcome to the finale of Good Morning, we got there in five episodes, we did it, that’s the record for getting to Siamese twins. I feel like I’m so insecure, the idea of a better looking smarter head on my body is like…

Symphony: Right.

Hal: That is my worst nightmare that I didn’t know I had until you asked that question like two minutes ago.

Symphony: Also is it now incorrect to say Siamese twins? [laughs]

Meg: I think we say “conjoined twins” now.

Hal: We say “conjoined twins”.

Symphony: We say “conjoined twins”. (Grant, cut it!) [laughs] OK. So “conjoined twins”. Yeah after I heard it I was like, that probably sounds a liiittle racist, (--).

Hal: I know that people can’t see what we’re doing right now, but Symphony has a clipboard in her left hand, and when you ask questions like that, you look like a camp counselor who’s going through the sensitivity training like, [laughter] can we say “Siamese twins”? Is that OK, let me mark it down ‘cause I had a note about that, I have finally the answer. Free swim at 9 AM, that’s gonna be fun.

Symphony: And crafts are in the barn.

Hal: Even for you “conjoined twins”, see I do learn. [laughter]

Symphony: After last summer’s debacle, (I mean it is)…

Hal: Surprised you came back, but I’m glad you’re here. [laughter]

Symphony: It’s how we learn, it’s how we learn.

Meg: Right, we just gotta keep the conversation, keep the conversation (going).

Symphony: We’re gonna move forward.

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Yeah.

Symphony: So OK, I feel like this is the first time that the people huddle outside the back of the Ralphs. I’ve always loved that imagery, like in the hole of the parking lot.

Hal: Yes.

Symphony: It’s like, what are these people just like hanging out in a hole? Ralphs is a grocery store.

Meg: Yeah, Ralphs is a grocery chain.

Hal: Yes.

Symphony: Right. It’s like real tho?

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Yes.

Symphony: Right, I’m like I feel like I’ve heard of the Ralphs before.

Meg: They’re just in California and maybe there’s one in Arizona.

Symphony: OK, well…

Hal: You know them as Kroger, same company.

Symphony: Ah, I do know a Kroger, seen a Kroger before. But I always think, I saw that recently about like chain grocery stores, and that’s always interesting to me ‘cause what you grow up with you’re like, oh all grocery stores aren’t a Jewel?

Meg: Or a Shoprite?

Symphony: But when people are just hanging out in a huddled mass outside of the Ralph, and they put out an ad for it.

Meg: Yeah, that Cecil delivers earnestly.

Symphony: Like come hang out with us.

Hal: Yeah.

Meg: Just an earnest ad for a hole in the parking lot.

Symphony: For you to huddle with other people in.

Meg: Pretty good. So we add to our intern count, intern Leland.

Symphony: Leland.

Meg: RIP.

Symphony: But you know, doesn’t there seem like there’s more pomp and circumstance with this one like…

Hal: Yeah!

Symphony: He dies but they talk about having a funeral and how they bury them in the break room, which…

Hal: [laughs]

Symphony: ..was never discussed before, but I like it.

Hal: Yeah.

Symphony: It seems a propos.

Meg: It’s important to have ceremony surrounding grief, you know.

Hal: Oh absolutely. [chuckles] It just feels, I like, I love watching the little detail like coloring the corners, getting the little nooks and crannies in this world building, and that’s what this feels like ‘cause it’s not, yes a series of, at this point you probably would figure out that most of the interns are going to die. But those little like, you get filled out what actually happens when somebody dies outside of, Cecil makes an announcement that there is a full sort of funeral held in their break room, which is just really for all intents and purposes, a graveyard where they eat sometimes.

Symphony: [laughs] I don’t think they allow that in actual cemeteries, so they get mad if you go in there and try and picnic.

Hal: Have you tried?

Meg: You can. Yeah.

Symphony: Can you?

Meg: Yeah I have a friend growing up whose Mom would take her to the cemetery to eat on her grandparents’ grave, they would like go do that. They would take a hot lunch.

Symphony: But if you didn’t know anybody, you’d just like sit that’s what I’m saying…

Meg: Yeah, then it’s…

Symphony: Not like it’s some of your family.

Meg: Yeah it’s like have some respect, you’re just sitting there like eating a six-inch Subway meatball sandwich just like, I was hungry! [laughter]

Symphony: It’s like, oh I just stopped at the Kroger or whatever like I just needed a place to sit down, and this is closer than the park.

Meg: Quieter, it’s cleaner.

Symphony: Totally, and it’s nice, there’s flowers, trees and stuff.

Meg: Yeah.

Symphony: Some cemeteries are very nice.

Meg: They are.

Symphony: Although I think a waste of land.

Meg I- I have to agree that they’re a waste of land, although some of the existing ones are pretty special, like-like the famous existing ones they’re special. There’s a bunch of ones that are just like, you know, miles and miles of dead people, where it’s like they probably could have figured out something better to do here with this, but you know.

Symphony: I like the fancy ones in LA.

Meg: Oh.

Symphony: I’ve been to a couple of those.

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Hollywood Forever, where…

Symphony: With like celebrities.

Hal: Yeah, they show movies at Hollywood Forever…

Symphony: Yeah yeah yeah!

Hal: ..you can go see, when Jennifer and I were first dating, we went with Annie Savage who was appeared on the show, and her future husband at the time Fred and Ben Acker, we all went and watched, I think “Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure”. Like they just project it onto a mausoleum and a bunch of people show up, and and it’s acceptable.

Symphony: Wow.

Hal: That’s what happens in a Hollywood cemetery. It’s all glamour out here, folks.

Meg: Anything goes in Hollywood. Anything goes.

Hal: All the rumors are true.

Symphony: But I guess that’s what you sign up for when you’re like, oh I wanna be buried in this Hollywood cemetery and then you’re gonna get a movie shown on your grave, you know?

Hal: Yeah. I wanna, if I do that I want it written into my will which movies I will allow.

Meg: What would you pick if you had to like have a list of a few that you would find acceptable to project onto your grave?

Hal: Only “Xanadu”. That’s all I want shown all the time.

Symphony: Yes! [sings] Xanaduu…

Hal: And only the big number at the end where they combine all of their ideas into one horrific – dance number?

Symphony: [laughs]

Meg: I’d have to go with “Grease 2”, if it was me.

Hal: [laughs] Bowling alley sequence only?

Symphony: That’s the one with Michelle Pfeiffer?

Meg: Yeah. Yes.

Symphony: OK so, ‘cause I was about to say, I was like wow are we going to let Olivia Newton-John here? And then no it’s ‘cause it’s “Grease 2”. I think on my – “Labyrinth”.

Meg: Oo!

Hal: Nice. Nice.

Symphony: I like that movie a lot.

Meg: That sounds cozy and you know a bunch of college kids would roll up a joint and rock up to your grave and..

Symphony: Right!

Meg: ..(-) [silly voice] “Are we watching ‘The Labyrinth’ at Symphony Sanders’ grave tonight?” And it would be a good time.

Symphony: Yeah, and then my ghost would come out.

Meg: Yeah, and your ghost would love it!

Symphony: [laughs]

Meg: Your ghost is like, I’m trying to imagine what your ghost is wearing, it’s a one piece.

Symphony: Yes.

Meg: It’s like a spooky little one-piece jumpsuit. [laughter]

Symphony: You know me and my one-piece living, or dying.

Meg: Your one-piece dying! [laughter]

Symphony: Boo, Sanders! So speaking of celebrities and dead celebrities, Rita Hayworth apparently. But I mean you guys, first of all it’s hearsay of hearsay. This is like the most like not, probably it’s not true at all.

Hal: It did come from an angel, they’re very trusted sources of, they’re known celebrity spotters.

Symphony: They said to Old Woman Josie, who told Cecil, right?

Hal: Yes.

Symphony: The angel didn’t tell Cecil, Old Woman Josie did. She could be a liar.

Hal: Are you saying…

Meg: Wow, accusation.

Hal: ..there are unreliable voices in Night Vale?

Symphony: [laughs] Noo… Yes. No. Maybe. Uuuh, well, do you even know what Rita Hayworth looks like?

Hal: Yes!

Meg: I don’t.

Hal: Have you not seen “The Shawshank Redemption”? She’s the one who whips her hair back when they watch the movie and goes “Who me, boys?” She’s the first poster that he puts on his cell wall.

Symphony: No I was just asking like for posterity, do you know what [chuckling] Rita Hayworth looks like?

Hal: I do.

Symphony: So the answer is yes.

Hal: Yes. She’s shorter and more Hispanic than I remember but…

Symphony: [laughter] (-) that was fun.

Hal: Yeah.

Symphony: Well, maybe that woman’s name was Rita Hayworth, it just wasn’t the Rita Hayworth that we’re thinking of.

Hal: That’s true, that’s on us.

Symphony: Right? Her name could be Margarita Hayworth. She just goes by Rita. Actually that’s my, a girl I went to high school with. Her name was Margarita so it’s not like…

Meg: No, when I was taking Spanish class in fifth grade, my Spanish name was Margarita, so…

Symphony: Did you know what a Margarita was, the drink?

Meg: Yes.

Symphony: OK.

Meg: I wasn’t drinking them at the time, but I had been to a Chili’s before, so I… [laughter]

Hal: You do a lot of growing up the first time you go to a Chili’s, don’t you?

Meg: Sure, that’s for sure.

Hal: Mm hm.

Symphony: God I love Chili’s. I also have digestive distress, but it’s so good.

Meg: I feel like we have already done this on this show, we have ranked the Applebee’s and the Chili’s and [laughter] and the uh, TGI Fridays, I feel like we’ve already been down this road.

Symphony: Well Applebee’s is on the lowest, it’s on the lowest.

Meg: We all agree that Applebee’s is the worst, it’s Scrabblebee’s.

Hal: Applebee’s is terrible, but I got food poisoning at a Fridays, so that will always be the bottom for me.

Symphony: Well that’s full of people that definitely don’t wash their hands.  

Hal: That’s true. They dump their wings in the toilet before they bring them out.

Symphony: [laughs]

Hal: And they told me, it’s really on me. I rank myself below Fridays for that reason. (--) OK, you know what, I’ll roll the dice, I’m a gambler. [laughter]

Meg: I also really love the satire that we have of auditions, and (--) as a whole we get for the “Once on this Island” auditions announcement. [laughs]

Symphony: Yes. I love how they do this throughout the series, throughout the show in general, but they’ll do lists of things and it’ll start out normal or it’ll be like a couple normal things, and then it’ll totally go off the rails. Which I love, and I think you know, when you’re an actor, you just gotta have all those skills, you know what I mean?

Hal: Yes.

Meg: Yes.

Symphony: Sniper skills, all sorts of things. What is a dirigible?

Hal: It’s a, it’s a blimp.

Symphony: You’re, [laughing] you’re a blimp?

Hal: (--) I’m a blimp? ‘cause I answered, how rude!

Meg: That’s rude.

Hal: That was just Applebee’s style behavior right there.

Meg: When you’re here, your family. [laughter]

Hal: What is the biggest lie you ever put on your resumé, or like the dumbest skill that you have on your acting resumé?

Symphony: My own? I dunno.

Hal: Did you write stuff on other people’s resumés? When you’re on auditions you wrote like, “doesn’t work well with people”.

Symphony: Well I just remember I was, I was looking at someone’s once, and I just thought it was funny that they put like “burp on command”, they could burp on command.

Hal: [laughs]

Symphony: And I’m like, do people like test you on that, or what?

Hal: They might.

Symphony: I mean I’ve always wondered if people get called out, you know.

Meg: If someone were to actually call me out on the horseback riding skills that I list, it probably would be dangerous, I probably would get hurt. Like so you can actually really ride a horse, right? Yeah sure, totally. And like, I would get trampled. It’d be like here, gallop down this beach, and I’d be like oh no, we’re all gonna die.

Hal: [laughs]

Meg: I always wonder why they have the, like where we have to put our that we have a driver’s license and that it’s valid. [laughs]

Symphony: Yeah.

Hal: Yeah!

Meg: Valid driver’s license.

Hal: Like they’re gonna go, oh driver’s license huh? I’ve got a truck downstairs in the garage and they just throw you the keys. Go round the block and don’t hit any stuff!

Meg: Yeah. I’ve never had to act in a car. It’s never been a place for like…

Symphony: Me either, never been in that commercial. That’s usually like commercials, right? Like…

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Yeah.

Symphony: You’ll have to be, but do they even like, make you drive in the actual car, or is it like you’re in one of those fake cars on a like green screen?

Hal: It depends. Sometimes you probably have to drive it. But even then if you haven’t ever driven before, and they put you in the car and you do that thing that kids do where you’re like just, you’re constantly moving the wheel..

Symphony: Yeah.

Hal: ..because you know that there’s a steering wheel in a car, that’s how they know this person probably doesn’t have a valid, this person can’t act like they’re driving, they seem really bad at it.

Meg: We would all get not cast in “Once on This Island”. Which is an interesting choice.

Symphony: Well maybe I could because I’m a person of color…

Meg: Yeah.

Symphony: So I was encouraged, that’s good.

Meg: That show really should be people of color..

Hal: Yeah.

Meg: ..only. [laughs]

Symphony: Pretty much, well except for, there’s like four white people in the show.

Meg: Yes.

Symphony: They’re like staying at the hotel or wherever.

Meg: Actually I saw Welcome to Night Vale actor Kevin R. Free in a wonderful production of “Once on This Island” at the Papermill Playhouse, and he did a fantastic job. Fun fact about Kevin R. Free is that he has a beautiful singing voice.

Symphony: He’s a good actor.

Meg: He’s a good actor, beautiful singing voice.

Hal: Not a surprise.

Symphony: All around good guy, yeah. Just sending Kevin R. Free some love, that’s all.

Hal: Yeah. I do like the idea of auditions ‘cause that in the later, in the touring show that just concluded, there was another bit about auditions as well, like it’s just a fun thing to come back to, that something’s always being cast and it’s very dangerous. Like the requirements are different every time, but also you know we were talking about the lists earlier, so people who are a fan of comedy and breaking down comedy, listening to and sort of studying how these lists are put together by Jeffrey and Joseph, it’s a little good way to understand heightening and misdirection, and the way they build their laughs out of surprises and then, they build on the surprise, it’s like constant hard turns, and then build build build hard turn that gives them like a reset to build off of, which is really really smart and fun as an audience member to experience, and really fun as an actor to perform.

Meg: Yeah, absolutely like especially in this episode with the list where they talk about the curriculum. “Finally, in addition to the current foreign language offerings of Spanish, French, and modified Sumerian, schools will now be offering double Spanish, weird Spanish, Coptic Spanish, Russian, and unmodified Sumerian.” So yeah, construction of these lists that do, they just take us on a journey, a journey of humor.

Symphony: I love the text books, that was always, that was really funny for me. I just like when they turn the things that would normally happen in everyday life right on its ear, you know like the math and English, those two just switching names but they still are the same like principles right? I just find that really funny and imaginative. And that teachers are astral projecting.

Meg: Yeah. And we get our, I think it’s our first Children’s Fun Fact Science Corner.

Symphony: Yeah, about the moon.

Meg: Where Cecil’s talking about the moon, yeah. [laughter] And Telly the Barber and Carlos, so I think it’s our first Children’s Fun Fact Science Corner, which is a fun segment on this show. So speaking of segments on this show, we have some fan theories and fan questions that we got from our voicemail and from our email, and we’re going to talk about those.

But first, let’s talk about the weather.

[ad break]

Meg: So this episode’s weather was “Jerusalem” by Dan Bern.

Hal: I love Dan Bern.

Symphony: I thought that song was so funny. It had, the tune itself made me think of almost like a 60’s revolutionary folk rock song, but what he’s talking about, the whole thing about the olives was killing me, I was like yes.

Meg: [sings] Olives!

Symphony: I wrote “loves olives”. [laughs]

Hal: Yeah, Dan is super smart and super funny and he sounds, he’s not a Bob Dylan soundalike but he’s super evocative. He’s got a similar vocal style, the way he plays the guitar has that folk rock feeling to it. That is like, he’s the kind of musician where you want to listen to, the lyrics are super important and sometimes just the way the music is built is the most important thing. But with him, you wanna catch all the details of what he’s saying as he sings, ‘cause it’s always super smart and really funny satire.

Meg: Yeah, agree on all of those things, I think it’s a really nice addition to this episode. It feels like it almost matches the rhythm of this episode, where it is one that does kind of, has a more humorous tone to it, has a “hey pay attention to the words” kind of tone to it, observational humor tone to it, it does feel like it is a nice match with that, whether that’s intentional or not, it feels like at home in this episode.

Hal: Yeah, 100 per cent. Probably the most, the best fit in terms of matching what’s going on. It doesn’t feel like it’s hard to turn away from where we’ve been. It feels kind of, it’s logical in a way that…

Symphony: Right.

Hal: The weather doesn’t really have to be, but when it is it’s nice, it’s a nice little sort of surprise.

Meg: Let’s go into the FanZone where we hear from some of our fans who have written into the email address and have dialed into our weird voicemail. So I (-) through the email account today and found some things. We asked, just for these first couple of episodes, we asked fans to react to the first ten episodes of Night Vale and what they had in terms of theories and questions. And Erin B. writes to us and says: “Theories. Carlos was sent to Night Vale by the place he works for, and as soon as time distorted, he wasn’t able to ever send any research back. Theory 2: Cecil was extremely lonely prior to Carlos arriving and pushed people away. Theory 3: The Voice of Night Vale infects Cecil and he doesn’t even really need a radio station to podcast. And theory 4: the secret government agency sent Carlos to Night Vale.” So we’ve got some theories here. I think are interesting when we are listening to it and hear the kind of new things about how Cecil wonders if his microphone is even attached, and if he is all alone. So it’s kind of the first episode that starts to pull back the, the (lens) of possibility and so, hearing from Erin on their theories about what’s going on here. We can’t of course confirm or deny any of these theories. I think that Cecil probably was extremely lonely prior to Carlos arriving. I dunno if he pushed people away, maybe he pushed people away, it’s possible.

Symphony: I think it is interesting that um, just like with a lot of theatre itself like, why is it important now, why are you talking about this thing now? So obviously Carlos coming into his life has been a catalyst for something or it’s been a big deal, because he wasn’t really, like we didn’t hear about Cecil before all that stuff, and now since Carlos has come into his life, things have changed. I dunno if he pushed people away, but now things in his life are changing, and Night Vale especially.

Meg: Yeah.

Hal: Yeah. I think they’re good theories.  I like the, I like back filling sort of character. You sorta can find the notes that you need to back fill where a character might have been when they arrive through listening and just sort of what the current relationship is and how important it is to the people, so I’m all for stuff like that. And then it’s fun when the writing either confirms or denies that, and if it doesn’t, then that’s something you can hold on to, and you’re always right.

Meg: Yeah and on that, the similar topic there, (Julianne) writes to us and says, “In episode 5, Cecil explicitly addresses this idea, questioning whether his mike is even plugged in and if the world is held aloft merely by my – his delusions and by his smooth, sonorous voice. But it leaves, it has a hypothetical scenario by not pursuing it past his musing. But his mind being stuck in limbo makes sense, Cecil and the city having (-) sense of time is the biggest clue, followed by a general lack of knowledge about how things – science, correct building materials for drawbridges and - heck, just how weird everything in Night Vale is”, so that’s (Julianne) saying that it makes sense that this might be a real thing that Cecil’s not actually there, that because it might prove that Cecil is stuck in limbo and that creates a weird sense of time, which makes sense why everything is weird in Night Vale.

Hal: I would ask, and (Julianne) you can’t respond. You can do it on social media I guess but right now, [chuckles] right now we can’t have a conversation about it, but I always wonder in those cases, is it more interesting for it to actually exist and be real, or is it more interesting if none of it is real and he is delusional, or has created a reality around him, in which case where is he and what is the real world around him? And I don’t think I, I don’t have an answer one way or the other, but I think that’s sort of the interesting question and conversation that you can jump off, either thinking about it by yourself or discussing with other friends/fans.

Meg: Nice. And Nina asks us, trying to put this the right way, Nina says: “Did I hear that a typo in an early episode resulted in a somewhat prominent change in plot? Can you tell us what that was all about?” So it’s not so, getting the story from Jeffrey, we talked to Jeffrey about this. Not so much that a typo resulted in a prominent change in the plot, it was that a typo resulted in a prominent change in the plot so we had to have Cecil re-record. So the way that the episodes are recorded is Joseph and Jeffrey work on a script, that script goes to Cecil, Cecil sits down, reads the script and kinda figures out his emotional beats, and then he performs it into a microphone and then he sends that recording off to Joseph, who cuts it into an episode. So there’s not a director in the room that is gonna go through word for word and make sure that the writers’ intents come through, so in this situation there was a typo that twisted the meaning, or a word got dropped and that changed the whole meaning of an episode, so he had to go back and have Cecil re-record and get that word in there, and have the episode have the meaning that Joseph and Jeffrey intended.

Symphony: But otherwise, all is well.

Meg: All is well. Sarah writes (-) us about Michael Sandero and Michael Sandero’s mother. So Sarah says: “Michael Sandero’s mother kept a ‘which of my children I like best’ ranking outside her house, which means Michael presumably had at least one other sibling. Why have we never heard about them? Will we ever hear about them? Are they simply so utterly normal compared to Michael and his recordbreakingly awful luck that they don’t stick out at all? Do these siblings actually ask?” And then this is in parenthesis: “Regardless of siblings or lack thereof, Flora is not a good mother, at least to Michael. So if the siblings are real, it would be nice if they showed him the support she does not.” Sarah also says [chuckles]: “How are the troubled tarantulas doing? I hope they’ve managed to turn their dire situation around and get on their many very hairy feet by now.”

Symphony: I don’t know that, like any theory, we can only make assumptions on the information that we have. And knowing how Night Vale is, I mean maybe he does have other siblings, but they don’t get any sort of (interest or play), right? They can’t possibly, ‘cause he’s a big football star. When you got a big football star, if you don’t live up to that, you know? It’s like “Friday Night Lights”.

Hal: He was already at top of the list and then the head beat him out. So he can’t, even when you’re at the top of the list, you’re not at the top of the list. Sorry, Michael.

Symphony: Yeah. You’re never safe.

Hal: Never.

Symphony: Oh and the tarantulas, do we wanna answer that? Is that a question?

Meg: How are they? I hope they’re doing OK. I mean, it seemed like there was a good program in place for them.

Symphony: Yeah, I mean they’re trying to get them to read, which is the first step I think in any sort of, uh, programming.

Meg: Yeah. And I think there’s passionate people involved in trying to rehabilitate and provide opportunities for these tarantulas, just all we can only ever hope for is that people are, there’s good people trying to do their best for them.

Hal: I’m deathly frightened of tarantulas, so they could all walk into a fire as far as [chuckling] I’m concerned!

Symphony: [chuckles]

Meg: That’s so cold, Hal. So cold.

Hal: Yeah. Not the fire, the fire’s plenty warm, if you’re cold get in that fire.

Meg: [laughs]

Hal: It’ll warm you up.

Meg: So let’s burn the tarantulas or not. And thus we end the FanZone. [laughter] Alright, we got through our episode. Thanks so much for discussing “The Shape in Grove Park”, all ‘yall! Next week, we are going to be speaking with Jon Bernstein, you may know him as Disparition. He is the creator of the music for Welcome to Night Vale and Alice Isn’t Dead, and he is an all around rad dude. We will be discussing episode 6, “The Drawbridge”, so we have that to look forward to, which is exciting. I’m very excited.

Hal: Me too!

Meg: Symphony?

Symphony: I’m not that excited.

Hal: Wow, hateful. The shade!

Symphony: Just kidding!

Hal: [whew].

Symphony: It’s because I’m afraid of bridges.

Hal: [laughs]

Meg: Awww. Well we’ll unpack that and all of our fears in next week’s episode, where we unpack our fears and talk it over with musician Jon Bernstein. You know him as Disparition, I refer to him as Yon. Symphony, do you have any other nicknames for Jon?

Symphony: Berenstain. I call him like Berenstain Bears, he doesn’t like that.

Meg: No. Alright great, (-) one in the (-), thank you all so very much for listening, and we will check in with you next week. And until then, good morning Night Vale, good morning.

Meg: Good Morning is a Night Vale Presents production. It is hosted by Symphony Sanders, Hal Lublin and Meg Bashwiner. It is edited by Grant Stewart. It is mixed by Vincent Cacchione, it is produced by Meg Bashwiner. Theme music by Disparition. Special thanks to our fans who submitted their thoughts. Leave us a voicemail at 929-277-2050, or email us at info@goodmorningnightvale.com, to share your theories and ask questions, or to tell us which host would lie in court for you.

For more information on this show, go to goodmorningnightvale.com and follow us on Facebook and Twitter @NightValeChat. Special thanks to (Christy Gressman), Jeffrey Cranor, Joseph Fink, and Adam Cecil.

Today’s adverb is “savagely”. The lion savagely attacked his tempe and quinoa salad, because he was a hungry wild beast, but also had just started doing meatless Mondays, because sustainability matters and we are all on this planet together.

[patriotnewsdaily]

New Post has been published on PatriotNewsDaily.com

New Post has been published on https://patriotnewsdaily.com/dana-white-and-joe-rogan-destroy-propaganda/

Dana White and Joe Rogan destroy propaganda

As mandatory vaccinations spread throughout the business world of the United States, some leaders are standing up to speak out against the health requirement trend that has been infecting free market capitalism here. This week, President of the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) Dana White and fellow UFC and top podcast host Joe Rogan both took the time to give their thoughts on vaccine mandates and the effects that they have on our personal freedoms in America. 

In a recent interview, Dana White spoke with MMANews.com about the pressure being placed on athletes and viewers alike to get themselves vaccinated to either perform or attend any public sporting events. He shared his view on vaccine mandates, saying that his organization will never place health mandates on anyone associated with or looking to come to any of his UFC shows.  

Dana White said, “I would never tell another human being what to do with their body. If you want to get vaccinated, that’s up to you. That’s your choice. You’re never gonna hear me say I’m gonna force people to get vaccinated. Never gonna happen.”

If only the rest of the business world would share this same view. This statement comes as major corporations from big tech to big business to the music, television and film industries all have decided to force employees to become vaccinated, regardless of their health history, personal concerns or religious beliefs. This statement also comes as New York City has become the first city to implement a mandatory vaccine health passport for all citizens wishing to participate in human life there. 

Speaking on the news, Dana White continued to say that, “They’re telling you in New York you can’t go into a restaurant or a gym unless you’re vaccinated and can prove it and things like that. Some people are getting fired if they don’t get vaccinated. Yeah, that’s not gonna happen here. You wanna get vaccinated? Get vaccinated. If you don’t, that’s your decision, your body.”

In a few months, scheduled for November 6th of this year, the UFC is planning to have an event in New York City at Madison Square Garden. With the news of the vaccine passport mandate, Dana White is open to changing the venue if complications arise and freedom isn’t allowed in the city. 

On the scheduled event, Dana White said, “I don’t know. We’ll see. As this stuff starts to play out, I told you guys a million times, I’m going to go where I can run a normal event. I said that I would be first and I would do the first indoor sold out arena with no social distancing and no masks and none of that stuff. We did it. We did it in Florida. We did it in Texas. We did it in Arizona. We did it in Vegas. We’re going to sell out again this weekend in Texas.”

White concluded that, “I don’t know what the future holds or what’s going to happen as this stuff continues to play. I wasn’t ready 1.5 years ago. I’m ready for anything now. I don’t care what happens, how it goes, how these different states run their stuff, I don’t care anymore. I’m ready to roll. I have plans now.”

The sound of a truly free American who lives and breathes free market capitalism. Why can’t more business leaders in this country be like Dana White? It sure would be great to see, but so far it seems that many of our companies care less and less about freedom or even free market capitalism choosing to support socialist ideals and communist nations over the Constitution, American business and the American people. They say that woke is broke, and I’m personally hoping a business reckoning is in store for the future as more and more consumers grow tired of all the nonsense of modern times. Only time will tell. 

Joe Rogan, host of the number 1 Spotify streaming podcast, recently chimed in with his thoughts on vaccine mandates during an interview with Black Rifle Coffee’s Evan Hafer. This video is essential viewing for everyone who shares any concern with anything that has been happening over the past year between the pandemic, the vaccine and the push by government and business for health mandates.  

To share a part of the conversation, when Hafer initially asked Rogan why people are supporting vaccine mandates, Joe said, “Because they are dumb. They don’t understand history. They don’t understand human beings. They don’t understand human nature. They don’t understand the history of every single country that’s ever existed other than the United States up until 1776, every fucking country that had ever existed was run by dictators. All of them. This is the first one where you had elected officials. This is the first experiment in self government that actually worked and it created the greatest superpower the world has ever known. It created the greatest cultural machine, the greatest machine of art, creativity and innovation – right fucking here. And how did it do that? It did it through freedom. Because when you give people freedom, let people do whatever the fuck they want to do, they actually find ways to succeed and grow and thrive.”

“But as soon as you put the boots to them, as soon as you tell them ‘you have to do this or you can’t do that’ – now you have a mini dictator. You have one step away from a king. One step closer. You’re moving one step closer to a dictatorship. That’s what the fuck is happening. That’s what’s going to happen with the vaccine passport. That’s what’s going to happen if they close borders. You can’t enter New York City unless you have your papers. You can’t go here unless you have that. You can’t get on a plane unless you do what I say. And people say ‘Well it’s all about protecting people’ – No it’s not! Because we’ve shown, this is a fact, just a couple of months ago, the idea of a breakthrough case was unheard of. Nobody heard of anyone catching covid that had a vaccine. That was the whole idea. You get a vaccine, you don’t have to worry about it. Now we know, not only do you get it, but you can spread it, and some people have died. Apparently it is a small number, I don’t know what the numbers are, but I know that most people get vaccinated, when they do have the disease, they have a better time with it than the people who are unvaccinated”

“But where are the people out there calling for people to get healthy? Where are the people out there calling for people to lose weight? 78% of the people in the ICU for covid are obese. 78%. Where’s that information being shared? Where’s someone who’s a leader who gets on T.V. and says ‘ladies and gentlemen, we’ve got to decrease our body mass, we’ve got to decrease our fat, we’ve got to make sure that people aren’t overweight. We’ve got to make sure that people are healthy. Walk around your block. You don’t have to do something complicated. Start drinking more water. Stop eating sugar. Start taking vitamins. You can increase the strength of your immune system. We can fight things off better. We can be a healthier civilization.’ Better for everybody. Right? You don’t hear a peep. All you hear is ‘take this vaccine that doesn’t even prevent you from getting the disease or you can’t go to the sauna, or wherever the fuck you want to go. You can’t go to the Broadway show.’ It’s madness.”

Amen to that. 

Joe Rogan also shared a document of a scientific study from 2015 called “Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens”. Rogan read from the article that, “Vaccines that keep the host alive, but still allow transmission, can thus allow virulent strains to circulate in a population”. This is the same situation we’re dealing with having ‘breakthrough cases’ of vaccinated catching and spreading mutations of the virus. Vaccination can quite possibly lead to stronger viruses.

Now that’s a real kicker. 

You can read the full article here

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

You can watch the full interview here

[clarencenicholsonata]

8 Strategies To Generate Leads From Podcast Guests & Collaborations

The simple yet entertaining nature of podcasting has made it an extremely popular form of lead generation and content marketing.

Podcasting also has a massive audience just waiting to be turned into leads:

More than a third of Canadians 18 and up listen to podcasts monthly (36%)

6.5 million adults in the UK listen to podcasts weekly About 90 million people in the United States listen to podcasts once a month

If you think your business can benefit from podcast lead generation (which it definitely can), there are two ways you can go about it:

Starting your own podcast

Appearing as a guest on other podcasts

While both are great for lead generation, podcast appearances have some advantages in that it:

Takes less effort and resources compared to starting your own podcast

Gives you access to a new audience every show instead of the same one every week

The question now becomes, how do you actually get leads out of your podcast appearances?

The general concept is the same as running a podcast and other forms of content marketing.

People listen to the podcast, find value in you and what you have to offer, then express interest in some quantifiable way (such as leaving contact information, reaching out to you, taking actions on your website, etc.)

But there are of course specific tactics you can do to maximize your leads, from your podcast appearance.

So, here are 8 strategies to help you generate leads through podcast appearances.

Talk About Topics To Show You Are An Expert

Demonstrating to people that you are an expert in your field will increase their trust in you, and by extension, what you have to offer.

So if you created an online tool that helps job seekers build resumes, and you can prove that you know what employers are looking for in a resume, people will then be more likely to trust your tool.

There are, of course, other ways to prove you are an expert, but a podcast has its advantages:

Sometimes it is easier to explain complicated topics simply through talking

Podcasts are an entertaining way of conveying information to people

Listening to podcasts is a passive act, making it easier for people to hear what you have to say than if they had to read it

Proving your expertise on a podcast appearance starts with your pitches.

When reaching out to podcasts to be a guest, you will typically include two or three topics to talk about that you are well versed in.

That way, once you’re on the podcast, you’ll be able to have an in-depth discussion and display your knowledge on the subject. If possible, you should also bring something new or original to the conversation.

You could talk about a:

New opinion

Problem in the industry (and potentially a solution)

Different take or angle on an existing topic

Study you’ve done

Analysis of a case study

In sticking with the resume tool example, potential pitches for that could be:

I discovered one thing everyone does wrong when highlighting their skills that most people don’t realize.

Results of a study show that employers actually like seeing a diverse work history.

An argument for why people should keep their college GPA on their resumes for at least ten years.

You will hear great examples of showing their expertise on NPR’s podcast Throughline, where every episode is about how events in history are impacting the world today.

The hosts, Ramtin Arablouei and Rund Abdelfatah, often have guests who help them explore these topics and contribute new perspectives.

On the Throughline episode titled “White Nationalism,” Sam Sanders as a guest, who hosts his own podcast called “It’s Been A Minute with Sam Sanders.”

In the episode, Sanders explains how white supremacy has inspired policies in place today in the United States. In doing so, he establishes himself as an expert on the subject, hopefully earning listeners’ trust and encouraging them to listen to his podcast.

Prepare a CTA With An Incentive Hopefully, after listening to your podcast appearance, many people will be interested enough to look you up on their own. But you shouldn’t settle for that.

You could potentially get more leads by having some kind of incentive and a specific call to action (CTA) that listeners can do, which works for two reasons:

People are lazy

People are selfish

Having an incentive will get listeners motivated to go to your website, as they will benefit from doing so.

Potential incentives could be:

Discounts

Free trials, lite versions or samples of a product

An ebook

Sample chapters of a book

A CTA also helps get people to your website, because sometimes, people need to be given direct instructions.

Not everyone is going to take the initiative and go out of their way to look you up.

Ideally, there will be a link they can click on in the episode description, making their lives even easier.

There are many ways you can phrase your CTA, but one template could be, “to get the discount [or another incentive], go to our website at [website domain].”

An example for a personal trainer could be, “to get a free fitness evaluation, go to my website at www.fittrainer21.com and book a call!”

The host may (rather, they should), either do this for you or present an opportunity for you to bring up your CTA. But if they don’t, make sure you find a way to get your CTA in there.

A podcast that does this well is the Eventual Millionaire Podcast, where at the end of each episode, host Jamie Masters asks her guest where listeners can find them, presenting the perfect opportunity for a CTA.

Pitch Topics To Promote Your New Release Another way you can turn listeners into leads is to intrigue them with a preview of something new, like a:

Product

Service

Business

Book

Video, film or documentary

Your preview shouldn’t be the only thing you talk about on the podcast (unless that’s what the host wants). But if you can, pitch topics where it would make sense for either you or the host to promote your new offering.

Let’s say you own a beauty product company, and you are coming out with a new anti-wrinkle cream, a pitch could be “new ways to stop wrinkles.”

Throughout your appearance, you can talk about several different tips and tricks for keeping smooth skin, with one of them being your new product.

For examples of what this sounds like, check out Scheer Intelligence.

It’s a podcast hosted by journalist Robert Scheer where he interviews people who “through a lifetime of engagement with political issues, offer unique and often surprising perspectives on the day's most important issues,” according to the podcast description.

Frequently, his guests have recently published a book. The conversation doesn’t revolve around the book, however, but around topics related to it.

This allows Scheer and his guest to mention the book organically, hopefully peaking listeners’ interests and causing them to look up the author’s latest release.

In an episode of Scheer Intelligence titled “Lee Camp”, Scheer interviews Comedian Lee Camp, and through their discussions mention Camp’s new book “Bullet Points And Punch Lines.”

Promote Your Appearance Using Multiple Platforms

The host of the podcast is going to promote your appearance because they do it for every episode. It’s one of the ways they get people to listen to their podcast.

If they aren’t, that probably means they don’t have any listeners, and you shouldn’t waste your time with them.

But just because they are promoting your appearance, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t either!

Promoting your podcast appearance yourself will help for two reasons:

People will hear about your appearance: People aren’t going to listen to your podcast if they don’t know it exists, right? So by promoting it, more people will hear about it, expanding your audience and driving up listens. This will increase the episode’s authority among people who discover your appearance, as the number of listens is often an indicator of the quality of a podcast.

Promotion will help with SEO:You will also be creating a backlink to your podcast appearance by promoting it. A backlink is a link to an external site, page or content. And these are critical for SEO. They essentially serve as a stamp of approval from other people, which plays a significant factor in search engine’s algorithms.

So, promoting your podcast appearance increases awareness of its existence and improves its searchability, bringing it to the ears of more people who could potentially become leads!

You should use multiple platforms to promote your appearance, such as:

Social media (like Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.)

Your website

In other content like a blog

PR releases

When promoting your appearance, you don’t have to come up with a crazy complicated campaign. Writing something simple will get the job done.

For example, you can send a tweet that says: “Hey, check out my appearance on the Entrepreneur's podcast! I discussed with host James Smith about starting my marketing company, and listeners can get access to an exclusive discount on their first month of my services!”

A good model to look at comes from when Edward Snowden appeared on The Joe Rogan Experience a podcast where Joe Rogan interviews various influential people- to talk about his book, Permanent Record. Snowden sent out promotional tweets after the appearance that were to the point but effective:

Tell A Story To Connect With The Audience

Podcasts are a great place not to just talk about your product, but your story as well.

Why should you tell your story?

Because people respond much more strongly and emotionally to stories than they do to product pitches.

A story will deepen listeners’ interest in you, making them more likely to look up you and your business, becoming a lead.

You can also write your story, but a podcast has the advantage of allowing people to hear your story coming from your voice, creating a stronger personal connection.

On your podcast appearance, you can talk about:

What inspired you to be in the field you are in

How you came up with your product idea

Your process starting your business

Anecdotes with lessons you’ve learned

Again, this comes down to your pitches to get on a podcast. When you pitch a story for a potential talking point for your appearance, be sure also to include why your story is beneficial for listeners to hear.

Ideally, there will be some kind of lesson in the story. A couple of examples could be:

A mistake you made and learned from- ex: My first company failed because I didn’t get enough investors in time, but it helped me learn how to be more persuasive in pitches to investors.

A change in your life- How waking up at 4:30 am every day increased my productivity and led to me starting my consulting firm.

To get an idea of how this sounds, listen to Stuart Goldsmith’s, The Comedian’s Comedian podcast.

Every episode, Goldsmith interviews a different stand-up comedian and they talk about things, like:

The comedic writing process

Stage presence

Tips for amateur comedians

But every episode, Goldsmith also asks them about how they got started in comedy.

In telling their origin story, the guest immediately becomes more personable and relatable than if they just bragged about how good their new stand-up tour is because you get to hear about their struggles and hardship.

Turn The Host Into A Lead

Yes, the host of the podcast you appear on can actually become a lead!

Think about it. They clearly are interested in your business and see value in you. If they didn’t, you wouldn’t be on their podcast.

Unfortunately, not every host will become a lead, because if you’re a marketing specialist on a marketing podcast, for example, the host probably won’t need your help.

But say you’re a marketing specialist on a podcast about starting businesses, the podcast host could potentially want your services.

So with every podcast you appear on, be sure to maintain a relationship with the host because you never know when they could become a client.

A real-life example occurred with Milotree’s Blogger Genius podcast, which is about successful bloggers and online entrepreneurs. SEO expert Deepak Shukla appeared as a guest on the podcast, which is hosted by Jillian Leslie, and Milotree later became a client of Shukla’s.

Improve Your SEO With A Backlink

As mentioned earlier, putting a backlink into the description makes it easier for listeners to get to your site.

Well, this backlink not only serves as a marketing channel to bring people to your site, but will also help improve your site’s search engine ranking, because again, backlinks are crucial to improving SEO.

Also, getting your name out there on more platforms, mediums, and spaces will boost your online presence and authority, increasing your searchability and lead generation even more!

So make sure you get a backlink in the description to one (or multiple) of your sites or profiles.The link can be for your:

Website

Social media

CTA landing page

Specific piece of content

One podcast that consistently gives their guests backlinks is the a16z podcast.

Hosted by Marc Andreesen and Ben Horowitz, the podcast is about what it is like to enter the world of startups and innovation. Their episode descriptions are pretty detailed, and always include links to their guest’s website(s).

On the episode titled “The Question of Education,” Dylan Field, CEO of Figma, appears as a guest, and there are links to the Figma website and some of its content.

Hire A Lead Generation Agency To Schedule Appearances

Don’t be afraid to get help!

Scheduling podcast appearances is not easy and will take a considerable amount of time and effort.

You’re also going to need to get on several podcasts to make it worth your time, probably 20 or more.

Hiring a professional lead generation service can help with the outreach process and scheduling appearances for you, leaving you more time to spend on nailing the interview. They will also:

Be more efficient at getting appearances

Have more contacts they can reach out to

Get you on podcasts that align with your target audience

Be able to get you on more podcasts

All of this will help you generate more leads faster.

An example of a company that does this is Pear Lemon Leads. They are an award-winning lead generation agency with a fantastic podcast outreach service that gets results.

Here is a case study on how they helped Amir Bormand, co-Founder of Elevano, get 12 podcast appearances in 2 months.

Conclusion

If you aren’t using podcast appearances to generate leads for your business, you have no excuse not to now.

It’s a great form of lead generation, and there are so many simple strategies you can use to maximize the number of leads you acquire from your appearances.

For a quick recap, here are 8 strategies you can use to increase how many leads you generate from podcast appearances:

Talk about topics to show you are an expert

Prepare a CTA with an incentive

Pitch topics to promote your new release

Promote your appearance using multiple platforms

Tell a story to connect with the audience

Turn the host into a lead

Improve your SEO with a backlink

Hire a lead generation agency to schedule appearances

So start getting on some podcasts and getting leads!

About the Author

Noah Carey is a content writer at Pearl Lemon Leads. He also attends the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies English, because he likes reading and writing, and runs for their track and field team because he likes running in circles.

from RSSMix.com Mix ID 8230801 https://ift.tt/3pdBSuA via IFTTT