#and imo it's like a WHILE into their relationship

[gods-perfect-idiots]

Okay bear with me folks, I have some ~thoughts~ about the Vanessa/Wade relationship (or frankly lack thereof) in Deadpool & Wolverine. I should start by saying that I am analyzing this with the (likely erroneous) assumption that everything on screen is 100% intentional and mindfully written to deepen the characters and inform their arcs. For the record, I don't necessarily believe that's true - there is certainly room for mistakes, lazy writing, confusing plot elements, or in this case, sidelining a potentially strong and important character for nebulous reasons (I'm guessing scheduling conflicts + run time concerns + actor's strike complications but idk for sure). (Also thanks to @gossippool and @kendyroy for encouraging me to post my thoughts instead of just rambling in the tags in the first place, y'all are the realest)

Long rambly post below the cut fyi

Now, granted, it has been a while since I watched the original Deadpool so I am not as well-versed in their early relationship as I am in the handful of scenes Morena Baccarin has in dp3, but I do think it is pretty canon that Wade generally struggles to express his deeper worries and feelings (without filtering it heavily through crude humor, sex, and pop culture references of course), especially after the events of dp1 and the physical and mental damage he sustains, and Vanessa is frankly no exception despite how much he cares for her. The entire first movie hinges on the fact that he doesn't really believe she could love him in his post-Francis mangled state, which is pretty contrived imo given that the film has established already how bonded they are, and she doesn't strike me as being written to be so shallow as to reject him based on a physical deformity. I mean iirc she wanted to stick around through chemo despite him being literally riddled with inoperable cancer, so she clearly is in it for the long haul (at least in dp1), messiness and all.

Now, in dp2, obviously she is shot and killed early in the film, and Wade spends much of the rest of the film wallowing in his very profound grief, trauma, and guilt over losing her due directly to his violent lifestyle. He goes to prison, he basically gives up on life and seems very resigned to dying once he has the power suppressant collar on, even excited to do so so he can be reunited with her. She is mostly sidelined as a Fuzzy Dead Wife trope basically, but the important thing here is that he spends weeks if not months in the throes of despair over losing the love of his life just as they were trying to start a family, and trying to reach across the boundaries of death to be with her.

Now, my first couple times watching dp3 I was frustrated by the trite narrative presented in the interview scene towards the beginning - specifically Wade's whole "my girl is getting tired of my shtick and I need to show her I matter". It felt contrived and disingenuous, and I just brushed it off as iffy writing, a means to an end, but the more I reflect upon it the more I think it is based in an emotional reality that is just handled with a very light touch by the film in favor of fanservice and Poolverine content (NOT that I'm complaining in the slightest - I think this movie is a masterpiece in many ways, albeit a flawed one but that's beside the point here), which for the record I am not against because I think it lends it an air of realism. This is Wade's story after all, Vanessa is a part of it but it is ultimately about him and his journey.

Basically, I think the combination of what happened to him in dp1 (the brain damage, the trauma, the awareness of the fourth wall, etc) followed by the events of dp2 (Vanessa's death, his grief and the associated guilt and trauma of being the direct cause of her death) led to an unbridgeable emotional gap between the two of them that ultimately leads to their breakup.

It's important to note that I don't think Vanessa has any recollection of her own death, given that Wade goes back and saves her before she can take the bullet, and so of course she can never fully fathom what Wade went through grieving her and their life together and their potential family, for however long he spent between her death and bringing her back with Cable's device. She can try (and she clearly does in the one scene I'll talk about next) but I fear she accepts, maybe even in that scene, that she can never succeed. He is beyond her reach by this point, and vice versa, his experiences having fundamentally changed him.

The one scene we really see from their relationship between dp2 and dp3 is the one where Cassandra mind-gropes Wade in the Void and we see Vanessa struggling to reach Wade across this aforementioned gap - she wants him to open up, she wants him to share what he's going through, she wants him to be the person she initially fell in love with (not even selfishly - to her nothing has changed really, because to her no time has passed). But not only does he not understand what she's really asking for but he responds in such a way that makes me think he has unprocessed issues that are only tangentially related to what she's saying - ie the stuff about mattering, about asking her if she even wants to be with him, etc. And he's not the Wade Wilson she met back in dp1 anymore. He watched her die and grieved her and brought her back, believing it would make everything go back to normal and they could resume their life together as if nothing had changed, but he has been fundamentally changed in a way that she can't grasp, even if he WAS good at externally processing his trauma openly without the artifice of wry jokes. She didn't "come back wrong" - instead, she came back exactly the same as before, but HE'S different now. Not wrong, per se. But changed.

It's an interesting scene because it's obviously a memory, and a crucial one at that, but you can see how Wade is misunderstanding what she's saying, viewing it through the prism of his own lack of self-worth and his own hopelessness - he takes away that she thinks he doesn't matter (even though like he says she didn't actually say that, but I don't think Cassandra invented that wholecloth - I think she pulled it out of his psyche because that's what he believes deep down, hence why his fixation on mattering even though she never said those words exactly), he takes away that she doesn't want to be with him, that she thinks he's nothing. Which would be frustrating as an audience member to witness as a pretty simple misunderstanding which could potentially be solved with one conversation, but it feels believable to me that these two people who have shared a great love would be fundamentally separated by unimaginable, cosmic trauma, and the on conversation they would need to have to rectify the misunderstanding is one that is impossible for Wade to verbalize and equally impossible for Vanessa to conceive of. It was one thing when they had shared trauma like violence and SA in dp1, but what Wade has gone through in dp1 and dp2, humor aside, is unfathomably traumatic, brain-breakingly so even, and that's not even factoring in the possible mental illnesses he now struggles with (I've seen folks suggest schizophrenia, DID, depression, etc. but I won't get into armchair diagnosing a fictional character here - suffice it to say he is canonically unwell as a result of what has happened to him, and yes it manifests as quirky fourth wall breaks and cheeky one-liners, but within the universe of the movies he is undeniably profoundly mentally ill, and that includes this humorous alter ego he created to cope with his trauma).

I think off-screen Vanessa probably really tried to reach him, maybe for years (the six year gap implies to me that they didn't break up immediately, that they tried for a while to stay together), trying to get her Wade back, but that Wade is gone. He struggled to express that to her until eventually he started to feel rejected because he couldn't express his trauma or how much he has changed, because even he can't fully conceive of the gulf that has formed between them. The truth is, he WANTS to be that Wade again, for her and for himself, but that Wade died when she died. Or maybe he had already started dying when Francis got a hold of him in dp1.

Anyway, all this is to say, I think Morena Baccarin WAS criminally underutilized in dp2 and dp3, but I think there is a strong argument to be made for the believability of their breakup regardless. I think even relationships built on enormous love can crumble due to trauma, and what Wade suffers over these movies is mind-bogglingly enormous trauma. It's especially heartbreaking that he blames himself for their relationship ending, talks like she just got tired of him, thought he didn't matter, whatever. But it is a credit to him that he never seems to feel anger towards her about it. He doesn't seem to feel entitled to her, though he longs for her and what they had and what she represented (hope, love, a future, a family), but ultimately she becomes more of a symbol of what he lost when he gained his powers, because let's be super fr right now - even if they had succeeded in having a baby, not only would they have lived in fear of her or the kid getting killed, but ultimately Wade would likely outlive both of them even if they managed to die natural deaths. The moment he gained his powers he was already destined to lose her, which is heartbreaking because she was the only reason he opted for the treatment in the first place - so he could stay with her.

I think a big part of Deadpool & Wolverine is watching Wade continue to process his own motivations (vis-a-vis Vanessa but also his other friends) and how he does eventually let go of the idea of "mattering" in favor of just saving the people he cares about (*cough* and being saved right back *cough* by Wolvie, as the final line and shot implies). And in the process he finds someone new who cares about him, who thinks he matters, who tries to sacrifice himself for him and his friends after mere days of knowing him, who comes home with him at the end of the story, who breaks his own centuries-old patterns, who has also experienced unimaginable grief and trauma, who has struggled with wanting to die and being unable to, who not only matches his crazy but matches his FREAK and also not only won't die on him but CAN'T die on him - and more importantly cannot be randomly killed by a stray bullet.

Idk if any of this makes much sense but I do think if you read between the lines and consider the potency of trauma and grief, guilt and emotional damage at play here, Vanessa and Wade's off-screen breakup is actually pretty realistic, and really heart-breaking to boot.

You can tell she still cares about him in so many ways - she shows up for his birthday party, she shows up to his welcome home party at the end, she finds excuses for physical contact multiple times, her eyes get soft when she looks at him, but there is a distance there that Morena Baccarin does an incredible job of portraying. She cares about him deeply, she has mourned the loss of their potential life together, she has let him go and accepted that the Wade she fell in love with is gone, but she wants him in her life even though she's moving on because she realizes he's gone somewhere she can't follow (literally and figuratively). And she wants him to be happy which is why I fully believe she would immediately clock the Poolverine of it all and not-so-subtly encourage them to make it official.

Anyway. Poolverine forever. Nothing against Vanessa at all - I think she delivers a nuanced and beautiful performance, I think their relationship is sweet and heart-wrenching in large part due to her acting chops, especially given how little she is given to work with - but I think their relationship was sadly doomed from almost the very start, because Wade becomes this traumatized superhuman and Vanessa would always be at risk in his orbit, but also would always on the outside of his multiverse superhero experiences. I think it's weirdly beautiful, even if I am filling in a lot of gaps and giving the writers maybe undue credit.

Anyway... thoughts? Please DM me or write in the tags, I am feral about this movie and just want to talk about it with anyone haha. If you have further insight into these characters too I'd love to hear it - I am by no means an expert in these movies or characters!

[wolfnight2012]

So is the fandom at large still characterizing "Open Arms" as the ~pacifism~ song or have we gotten past that?

Like, I don't know how keen Polites was for violence as a soldier in the Trojan war, since we meet him after the fact & lose him soon after.

But "Open Arms" doesn't tell us about his capacity for violence. It barely tells us about his thoughts on violence as an option.

The most we can infer from "Full Speed Ahead" and "Open Arms" is that Polites doesn't believe violence is the only option (or the one they should jump to first.)

But that's not even what "Open Arms" is about (not really)

"Open Arms" is about Polites noticing Odysseus' trauma & trying to help his friend heal.

The first lines of the song are:

"I can tell you're getting nervous, so do yourself a service"

Here "nervous" isn't being used to mean "scared" but rather "anxious" or "tense." I think Polites is calling out the fact that Odysseus is going 'fight or flight' mode despite everything being calm/no threat in sight.

He then tells Odysseus to have hope.

"Think of all that we have been through, we'll survive what we get in to"

He then starts to call out Odysseus a bit more explicitly (and notice how Odysseus does not contradict him. After his first [and unconvincing imo] "I"m fine, Polites" Odysseus doesn't speak again until the lotus-eaters show up)

(Btw, if you wanna read my breakdown of Polites & Odysseus' relationship [as explicitly depicted in EPIC], I wrote a post about it here)

"I know that you're tired of the war & bloodshed" <-We the audience also know this: "Will these actions haunt my days/is the price I pay endless pain?" (Plus killing Astyanax messed him up)

"Tell me, is this how we're supposed to live?" <- Must we remain in that kill/be killed mindset, always on alert, always warriors first, men second?

"Look at how you grip your sword, enough said" <- I think we can infer that Polites is either calling out the fact that Odysseus hasn't let go of his sword since they left the ship (aka always in 'warrior mode' aka "is this how we're supposed to live?") OR that Odysseus is white-knuckling his sword, (aka he is nervous/ anxious/stressed about a potential attack despite no visible threats)

Either way, in Polites' eyes, this mentality is detrimental to his friends' mental and/or emotional health.

Then we get to the point where I think the misunderstanding started & ended up overshadowing the rest of the song:

"You can show a person that you trust them, when you stop and lower your guard" <- I think we can take this literally (lower your sword until you actually have need of it) or figuratively (be ~emotionally~ vulnerable by asking for help.)

"This life is amazing, when you greet it with open arms" <- It doesn't have to be "endless pain" Life can be beautiful, but you have to stop closing yourself off/seeing everything as a threat first

Polites is arguing that the world is not always out to get you. Sometimes people are decent. Sometimes they are willing (or want) to help you.

It's a bit of "Try extending your hand in greeting before reaching for your sword" (Not everyone will be friendly, but you won't know if you are aggressive from the get-go.)

And a bit "Life is what you make of it" (if Ody treats every stranger like an enemy, then that is what they'll be.)

"We'll be fine if we're leading from the heart" I talk a bit about this in my response here. TLDR; Odysseus is lying to himself when he says he can "Lead from the heart & see what starts" in "Luck Runs Out" because that is not what he is doing,(and his reward is the windbag betrayal) MEANWHILE he does successfully "lead from the heart" while warding off Circe's advances & it's what saves his men/gains Circe's sympathy.

"No matter the place, we can light up the world, here's how to start" <- Again, life is what you make of it. You can make it a good one; not everything is an enemy/potential threat. Stop being a warrior first & go back to being a man

Of course, this doesnt immediately work, because Odysseus greets the world with his sword when the lotus-eaters show up

(Tbh, I find it hilarious that the lotus-eaters' FIRST word is "Welcome" and Odysseus responds to a Friendly Greeting by drawing his sword)

Like, Odysseus is genuinely seeing a threat here, he IS scared "nervous"

His first words to the lotus-eaters is a demand/warning for them to "stay back" (and both their cute voices [going off audio only] or their canonical fluffy designs tell us these are tiny things. They have no weapons, they haven't indicated any aggression, but Odysseus is so high-strung he sees something he might need to fight anyways)

THIS is what Polites has been refering to. THIS is why he's so concerned about his friend. That is not healthy and Odysseus is buckling under the weight of living in "survival" mode/always being "on"

"My friend, greet the world with open arms" <- this isnt Polites horrified Odysseus is responding with aggression/concerned for the innocent lotus-eaters, THIS is Polites (knowing Odysseus is tired of war & bloodshed) reminding his friend that he doesn't have to put himself through this. There IS another way. These creatures could be friendly, "Maybe they'll share some food, who knows?" Maybe, maybe not, but they won't know until they extend a hand first & ask.

And Odysseus does it by half measures *cough* just like all his actions after "Just a Man"*cough*

He lets the lotus-eaters know of their plight "We're only here for food" and threatens them in the next breath "600 men are waiting/stay back, I'm warning you/my men will turn this place into blazes"

He doesn't even ask for food/help, he simply lets the lotus-eaters know they're searching for food, then immediately piles on three additional threats to make sure they don't try anything.

Then of course the lotus-eaters offer food, but not food they can eat & Odysseus becomes dejected (which I think implies he was [sorta] listening to Polites, or at the very least, is so tired/stressed/wrung-out that he was secretly hoping it could be as easy as Polites claims.)

And Polites tries one more time.

"I'd like to show my friend that kindness is brave" <- I've seen so many people call Polites naive. That his optimism is too extreme/and not fit for the world (or at least the world of EPIC) but i would disagree with this common interpretation as well.

Why is kindness brave? If Polites believed greeting the world with open arms would help them find ONLY friendly strangers (instead of hostile ones or outright foes) then why would kindness be brave. Wouldn't it simply be? After all, what's brave about a sure thing? What's brave about having a get-out-of-danger-free card?

Kindness is brave because sometimes you WILL be met with hostile strangers/foes. But you extend your hand in peace first anyways. You don't know for certain if you will be met with friend or foe. But that does not mean you walk around, one hand on your sword, seeing enemies at every turn. You greet the world with open arms & give strangers the benefit of the doubt first, THEN use force if necessary.

I see Polites' philosophy as similar to Waymond's from EEAAO in that regard.

Polites, like Waymond, is choosing kindness. Is choosing to be optimistic. Not because he is naive to the ways of the world, but in spite of them. That is how Polites fights against darkness & despair. He is not naive.

When Polites tells the lotus eaters he'd "Like to show my friend that kindness is brave" he knows he's taking a risk. That's why it's brave. He is extending his trust to these creatures in the hopes they'll help/they have no ill intent, BUT being Well Aware he could be met with the latter.

Just because he's optimistic about the outcome doesn't mean he doesnt understand the risk. To refuse to dwell on the negative doesn't mean you're unaware of negative possibilities.

Then Polites reiterates his advice "This life is amazing, when you greet it with open arms" because it doesn't have to all be war & bloodshed & stress. You CAN find goodness in the world, and you'll feel much better if you don't assume everyone & everything is out to get you. And he lets Ody know he's aware of what he's going through/what's upsetting him.

"I seen in your face there is so much guilt inside your heart" <- I genuinely don't know if the crew know Odysseus dropped Astyanax, every time Odysseus references the infant, it's vaguely or as an aside. But even if Polites DOESN'T know Odysseus killed an infant, he still has 10 years of war to draw from (plus the wooden horse/killing sleeping Trojans bit.) Like, Polites is aware of what Odyssues has done, he knows what Odysseus is grappling with. This is not a simple/superficial/naive call for Odysseus to 'cheer up!' Polites knows of the darkness weighing on Odysseus' shoulders & he's telling Odysseus he's allowed to put it behind him.

"So why not replace it, and light up the world" <- He's allowed. It's over. It's behind them. Polites does not want his friend to torment himself forever. Whatever he did, he can move on. He can be a better man that what he was forced to become while at war/Troy (remember, Polites is well aware Odysseus is "tired of the war and bloodshed".)

And how can Odysseus begin to heal from his guit/trauma?

"Greet the world with open arms" <- stop seeing every stranger as a potential enemy/threat. Open yourself up to the possibility that good things happen sometimes. Sometimes, people are kind

"Greet the world with open arms" <- and Odysseus begins to tentatively open himself up to the concept & take Polites' words to heart

"You can relax, my friend" <- you're allowed

Sidenote: I told myself this post would ONLY be about Open Arms (and this ended up being SO Much longer than I anticipated) but I have a few more things to say, so I'll try to be brief.

Warrior of the Mind:

I'm convinced Athena pops in when she does because Odysseus is listening to Polites. He's been eaten by guilt since Astyanax & shyed away from violence in Full Speed Ahead. His nervousness is not very "warrior of the mind" of him. YET Athena doesn't come in to scold Odysseus at any of these points.

It's only when Odysseus sings Polites' chorus back to him, signaling he's opening himself up to the concept of open arms that Athena makes her entrance.

Polyphemus:

I'm not asserting this, but I think the argument can be made that Odysseus checks out the cave because of Polites. Like, either:

A.) He's giving Polites' advice a try here & now by trusting the lotus eaters/that they mean no ill-intent OR

B.) (less likely probaby??) His friendship/affection for Polites is the sort where he wants to please him. Polites is set on trusting the lotus/showing Odyssues "another way" & Odysseus will humor him because it's Polites asking

(Tho obviously the other explanation is that they are just THAT desperate for food & Odysseus doesn't think they have time to go searching for yet another island when this one (the lotus eater one) already turned out to be a bust

Underworld:

I feel like the general consensus for Polites' section of "Underworld" is that Polites died still seeing/believing in the good of the world OR that his dying wish was for Odysseus to chose nonviolence/pacifism???

(But as you can tell from *gestures at this entire post* I don't subscribe to the idea that "Open Arms" is about nonviolence. THEREFORE)

We know Polites last words/action in life was calling for Odysseus. And, imo, Polites' dying wish was for Odysseus to heal. If "Open Arms" is about Polites' calling out Odysseus' stress/trauma & trying to coax Ody to approach life differently so he can start to move on from the horrors of war.

Then that means, in death, Polites is stuck hoping Odysseus heals. Over & Over Polites sings for his friend to let go of his guilt & try to build a life worth living (not just one have to survive in)

And THAT imo is 1000x sadder than a call for pacifism. Because Polites' dying wish doesn't come true. Odysseus' mental/emotional health grows worse & worse. He pushes everyone away in the Ocean Saga, to the point that his crew of 10 years starts to doubt him! He already "can hardly sleep" in the Circe Saga. The Underworld Saga almost destroys him and it only gets worse from there!

In the Underworld Odysseus is confronted with Polites' love for him. His desire for him to get better. His hope for Odysseus to find peace/happiness.

Polites loved him soooo much, his Final Thoughts were concern for his friend. (Then Ody gets to hear from his mom, who loved him so much she died waiting for his return)

No wonder it breaks him.

[Anyways, if you wanna see my (much shorter) post over how the Wisdom Saga basically argues for/confirms Polites' philosophy Was RIGHT, you can find it here]

[muchanmocha]

Round 7 (and beyond)

I never intended on releasing a prediction post bc Team Vivinos is capable of excellent plot twists and there wasn't enough to go on imo to really have any solid guesses. But the recently released teaser gave me enough confidence in my current theories to put this out there. (Apologies if it's incoherent bc I'm basically just reposting a discord spiel I gave to an unfortunate friend a while ago lol.)

In sum:

Luka will be the winner of season 50 but Till won't die.

Bonus half-crack prediction:

Luka will win against Till, but Till won't die and Hyuna crashes the party to win season 50.

I can't recall the source but I believe Team Vivinos has mentioned that we're entering the main plot/part 2 of the story. Everything in this post is formulated based on this premise.

The artbook synopsis also seems to back up the claim that a bigger plot is coming.

Luka wins

Fairly sure Luka will win because that's his role. He is the epitome of this system. He is the symbol of Alien Stage. He cannot fall this easily.

Him maintaining his position at the top means he and the segyein enter part 2 with a strong presence.

Alien Stage may be fractured — 2 current participants have escaped to the rebels alive — but the system is still standing. It's scandalous, sure, but they have a winner and they will eventually go on to have Season 51.

Till survives

Till won't die because that's just weak sauce writing, plot, and character and we know Team Vivinos isn't capable of weak sauce writing, plot, and character.

Fact of the matter is, if Till dies in the next round he and his personal story will forever be overshadowed by Ivan's.

The climax of Round 6, Ivan's narrative and ending, it was executed so goddamn well. It was compelling. It was incredible. We are still not over it. And so—

There is nothing Till can do in the space of one episode ending in his death that can overpower Ivan's momentum from the previous episode. (Ofc everything in this series was somehow packed into 4 minute spurts that leave us emotionally wrecked so I am fully prepared to eat my words)

If Till dies here, regardless of what he does on stage before it happens, Till will be reduced to "the character who dies of guilt and regret after being the subject of someone else's obsessive love and sacrifice." He'll end up a passive player in his own story.

But if Till survives:

Till from here on out

Imo it would be FAR more interesting to see where his feelings and relationship with Mizi develops and shifts from here because Ivan has effectively tainted his idea of love.

Why do I say this?

Well Till's love for Mizi is... very innocent, very pure, very "first love"y. It's all things naive and fantastical and shoujo manga heart-shaped bubbles.

Meanwhile Ivan's love for Till is dark and gritty. It's obsessive. It's all things murky and ugly (I mean it in the best of ways don't come at me with your pitchforks) — the complete opposite of Till's impression of love.

Which makes it all the more impactful when Ivan forces Till to come face to face (literally) with that deep, obssessive love in Round 6 with his last moments.

After this incredibly traumatic eye-opener — an intimate, violent look into a different kind of love — I don't think Till can look at Mizi the same way again. (No not because he does or should be obligated to return Ivan's feelings, and that's a hill I'll die on regardless of pitchforks. If Till develops feelings for Ivan it should be on his own terms. If Till falls out of love with Mizi that should also be on his own terms.)

Hyuna wins Season 50 (jk)

Look it'll be funny.

Luka facing off against Till and then Hyuna crash the party, stomps him (vocally), effectively wins Season 50, and then yeets with Till and Mizi — one over each shoulder, hauled like sandbags.

(In all seriousness tho, not a very high chance of happening. They clearly have a lot of issues to sort out that'll prob happen later in part 2.)

"Never come back again"

The whole reason why this post is up. The caption for the new promo art gives me more confidence in the theory that everyone leaves except Luka.

'Never come back again.' I feel like there's a good chance this is Luka saying or thinking this to Hyuna (and co). If indeed it is, there's a lot to unpack there.

Tl;dr

Hyuna and Mizi busts Till outta there, Luka is left utterly alone seated on the throne again, Sua and Ivan eventually come back wrong to wreck emotional havoc as zombie androids

[grilledcheezy92]

We all know Asher has a spiked collar (imo it's a martingale so that Baaabe can tug on it whenever)

But headcanon that Baaabe also has a collar (more like a choker) bc while they generally dom, the relationship being an equal give and take is super important to both of them

[amemenojaku]

Akyuu/Reimu for the ship ask, please

hi I um. turned this into akyuurei manifesto. sorry

How differently do they think of each other now compared to when they first met?

I just reread Memorizable Gensokyo and some of the FS chapters where they interact (+the bit at the end of SoPM) back-to-back and it feels like they’ve come to really respect each other. When they first met properly in MG Akyuu tried so hard to impress Reimu, who looked amused by Akyuu’s work but didn’t seem to take her very seriously… I suppose that’s partly because they were younger then. I like that small panel in MG where Reimu introduces herself and Akyuu’s like “:O!!!”… By the time we see them together again in FS, they talk as equals. Reimu acknowledges Akyuu’s authority (she’s still super blunt about the chronicles but that’s Reimu for you lol), and Akyuu trusts Reimu to get the work done when it’s needed. They know they can rely on each other. I’d even go as far as to say Reimu treats Akyuu with a bit more softness than she does a lot of characters… She worries about Akyuu walking all the way up to the shrine in a latter FS chapter, she doesn’t chastise Akyuu for organizing the symposium in SoPM despite how pissed she is at the other participants (although I do think she was still hurt… more on that below), etc. As they are now they see each other as individuals more than roles I think, which is an important part of their dynamic (and also of Reimu pairings in general imo).

What do their friends/family think of their relationship?

They’d be the type to go in circles for a while before committing to something. Take their time with it. Past a certain point Marisa and Kosuzu start scheming to get them together (much to the concerned parties’ annoyance). When it finally happens they’d be teasing but supportive. I think the relationship would be kept secret for a time… Some people still manage to sniff it out though, Yukari for example; she’d be satisfied with it. Two people she has a weird close situationship with, together? That works. There might be some gossip about them… But if/when they make it official to everyone, I honestly think they’d be blessed by most of the village – it’s the Hakurei shrine maiden and the head of the Hieda clan after all! Might break a few nameless village women’s hearts though…

How do their personalities/skills complement or contrast with each other?

They have a ton of parallels (human but not quite; role directly tied to the survival of the world they live in; bridge between humans and youkai, etc) but also a few differences both symbolically (Akyuu doesn’t fly (she’s grounded to (a relative) reality), Reimu is literally the power to fly (transcends reality); Reimu is the “eternal shrine maiden”, Akyuu doesn’t live past 30 (but even that can be turned into a parallel with Akyuu’s reincarnations*), etc) and in terms of personality (Akyuu being calmer in general and displaying better social skills). Imo it’s one of the relationships with the most interesting balance between contrast and similarities… They’re the same girl but they’re also on two different sides of the same coin and the pining that comes out of it is SO good.

*if you look too hard into this like I do you’ll see the child of Miare’s reincarnation gimmick as a parallel to how it’s implied that the past Hakurei shrine maidens were replaced often (died quickly?)

What is their favorite aspect of each other?

In canon, I’d say it’s how reliable they find each other. They’ve worked together/consulted one another a few times in FS for matters related to the human village, and despite some differences in opinion they’re on the same wavelength on a lot of issues. Now, with my yuri goggles on…. I think it’d be really sweet if they could make each other feel normal. If their similarities brought them together on a level different from their other friendships, where they can understand the weight of each other’s role and that whole “human but not quite” thing they share, and be able to completely treat each other as ordinary. I really really like it when a character with a lot of obligations gets to just be themselves, and I also love it when two characters who’re both special or generally “apart” from everyone else grow close thanks to that, so I’m just mashing things I enjoy lol

Do either of them have pet peeves about each other?

I like to think Akyuu has a healthy lifestyle and her days go like clockwork (except when she’s close to a writing deadline), so she’d probably find some of the situations Reimu ends up in very frustrating. I think that fits well with the fact that Akyuu doesn’t always realize how high her quality of life is and can sometimes act a bit inconsiderate towards people who aren’t as rich as her. Meanwhile Reimu’s a very honest, very blunt person who struggles with keeping secrets for long (see Forbidden Scrollery’s ending), so she probably wouldn’t like some of the secrets Akyuu keeps at times. But Akyuu’s an important figure to the human villagers and she does take her role as a chronicler seriously, so there must be moments she has to prioritize her obligations over honesty. I think that kind of contrast is very interesting.

How would each reconcile with each other after a fight?

They’re both stubborn… But I see Reimu as the first to try to reconcile most of the time. Her soft spot for Akyuu would take over her natural pride imo. So she makes the first move. Akyuu takes longer, but her apologies are sincere.

Buuut there’s one time I can imagine Reimu completely withdrawing into her shell and refusing to even acknowledge that she’s really upset at Akyuu until confronted about it: SoPM. I won’t ever be able to explain it better than que-de-metal did right here so I recommend reading it!!

What would be their ideal vacation getaway together?

Hot spring resort. Quiet, relaxing and good for Akyuu’s health! And plenty of time for Reimu to laze around and read mystery novels. (I’m projecting… I miss onsens…….)

Think of a new way (AU, different situation, etc.) they could have met for the first time.

I’m honestly a bit upset that Memorizable Gensokyo is when they first met proper, even though there’s no way the Hieda family isn’t regularly in contact with the Hakurei shrine maiden. I think it’d be cute if they met when they were both kids and Reimu was in training with her predecessor and they were both called at the Hieda mansion for something. Extra points if Akyuu was intrigued by Reimu’s natural powers and that’s where her desire to impress her in MG comes from, and if Reimu barely remembers that meeting (like with Alice in PCB).

[starlingflight]

I guess this is "hate" but not really since you're my favorite hinny writer and that won't change but I am disappointed after this last chapter.

One of my least favorite tropes is "misunderstanding that could be resolved with a simple conversation isn't, and Ginny hooks up with a random person" because it was used (a lot) by anti-hinny writers as a way to slut shame Ginny or prove she isn't a good match for Harry, that now when I see it in a fic it instantly kills my enjoyment of the fic.

I do wish you would have tagged the Ginny and Seamus relationship even if it doesn't last as a warning though.

I know I should leave this a while and then answer it, but I have a lot of feelings about this that I don't feel like taking into my weekend so sorry, anon, but you're getting my unfiltered reaction.

It's not, imo, a misunderstanding that could be resolved with a simple conversation. I mean, technically, it is, but at this point in the story Ginny is still dealing with self-esteem issues following the Tom situation, and doesn't really trust herself to read other people's intentions as they relate to her. Add to that, being a teenager lacking in life experience (this is not a hinny who have been facing death since pre-adolescence), then it's not a conversation they're going to have at this point in their lives.

I really, really, really don't care what tropes anti-hinny shippers use, and I defintiely won't be taking them into consideration when characterising Ginny like a realistic teenaged girl. If I cared even a little bit about anti-Ginny tropes, I would not be writing a story where she brews a love potion at all.

It's not negative for a young woman to explore different partners, or to have intimate encounters that don't lead to a relationship. It doesn't make her unworthy of Harry (who has openly kissed Cho in this fic already with absolutely no criticism) or a bad match for him.

Considering NOTHING happens between them on page, and their interaction totals about 10 lines (I haven't counted, but it can't be much more than that), tagging Ginny/Seamus would be a major overreaction. I wouldn't be impressed if someone tagged Harry/Ginny for an equivelent situation in a fic that otherwise didn't feature them. Notice, I didn't tag Ginny/Michael, Ginny/Zacharias or Harry/Cho for similar reasons.

[transingthoseformers]

"This is my husband, Megatron. He's... Well he's Megatron alright."

"You wound me, dear Prime💖💖💖"

[labotor]

late-night waltzing at the House of Hope 🎶✨

[welcometogrouchland]

I miss them so bad (Dick and Damian)

[wickmitz]

I decided to start talking about Wick and Rocky's relationship because I like their dynamics too, I like seeing Wick scared of Rocky and Rocky being aggressive with him, which is unusual because Rocky is rarely aggressive with anyone, but of course Wick is an exception to rule

Also my mini opinion about their possible relationship, I think that if Rocky didn't have to fight for his place, then he and Wick could become friends, or at least tolerate each other a little, I also see some superficial similarities, their gentlemanly and romantic natures, and their common love for explosions (remembering the quarrymen chapter), but this is my assumption, I think that I don't understand the characters' personalities well, so I can be wrong in this assumption, something like that. So, what do you think about their relationship?

for starters, i cannot thank you enough for this ask! as i’ve said previously, i have many thoughts on these two, so it’s nice to finally be able to share some of them. although given the extent to which i think about them, i apologize in advance if this is sloppy and sort of everywhere … while i’ll try to structure things the best i can, i cannot promise i’ll succeed! but hopefully this is an enjoyable reply nonetheless.

one of my favorite things about rocky and wick’s relationship is absolutely how aggressive rocky is towards the aristocrat ; he is prone to glares and cruel jokes and borderline hissing whenever the man is within his line of sight, or can be brought to a wailing-fit over the mere mention of his name from miss m’s mouth. there is a childishness to it, but a very prominent threat as well in spite of rocky’s usual incompetence. so he goes out of his way to posture around wick, readily lying and adorning himself with the gangster drapes he so badly wants to wear, in the hopes that it intimidates … will even badmouth wick’s family and make fun of his name and rock related obsession to mitzi, and so on so forth! yet all of this is very reminiscent of schoolyard bullying rather than anything too severe, though we as the audience understand rather quickly that rocky would bash wick’s head in with a tire iron if he could. ( translation : if it wouldn’t earn the tears or hate of a certain beloved mitzi may ) and it’s all very intense despite the absence of actual violence! and i understand why many fans see this as unusual for rocky and believe that it’s only wick who makes him act so aggressively, but i’d argue it isn’t really wick at all that prompts such scary reactions from him … and that rocky is a deeply angry character who’s a.) been boiling quietly for a long, long time and b.) has turned wick into a punching bag of sorts for this inner world of resentment and hurt. basically, when he’s judging the well-to-do or poking fun, his eyes don’t look at wick and actually acknowledge him as sedgewick sable ; instead this is a being, something vague and metaphorical, who threatens to upseat rocky’s permanence in the lackadaisy and steal away his savior, and he’s had a hand in the violinist’s misfortune for a long time.

obviously, rocky doesn’t think wick robbed him of his family twice over and made him homeless, but he is channeling the fear and anguish of those events into his loathing for wick, if that makes sense? it’s easier that way -- to finally have an outlet for everything bleeding inside of you, to be able to bite and claw at something without feeling conflicted or having to take personal accountability for your own mistakes … which is something that i think rocky does struggle with to a degree. he is sort of a finger pointer! his pain has to be worth something, it has to be for someone else ; spending years homeless and losing his last bit of family was for freckle, and the scrambling of his literal brain was for mitzi, and that means he can’t ever be angry with them! well, except that he is, somewhat, but he buries it deep down instead of feeling it. with freckle there is a sense of strain between them -- an air of ‘you owe me’ from rocky to freckle as he uses freckle to appease miss m, and he constantly pokes fun at his cousin too. it’s lighter than his jabs at wick, but there’s a constant pestering, a reminder of how good freckle has it : how he’s got the mom and the house and the job and the girl most notably. i don’t think rocky is intending to come across as mean, and to his credit he hardly does! but it’s rather clear to me that some part of him, some hidden and deeply hurt part, is rather indignant about taking the fall for freckle all those years ago. which he can’t understand, because how could he? he made that choice, he decided to take accountability for something he didn’t do because he loves freckle and knows it’d be so easy to believe this family tragedy was roark’s fault ; the devilish child he was, all troublesome and too broken to properly fit anywhere. so there is a disconnect born here, where rocky can’t comprehend that he’d be angry at freckle, so instead these not so great feelings are placed elsewhere and silently boil over time. and with mitzi … i don’t think he’s angry at her per se, but there is a frustrated and desperate chorus of : why him and why not me, when i’m the one out here dying for you? which is certainly unpleasant. of course, rather than allowing those feelings to be more aimed at miss m, whom he feels unloved by, he ( again! ) represses these emotions and allows them to fester into his greatest fears and fantastical complexes. i think there is a lot of other miscellaneous anger he could have towards others too … perhaps some part of him is sore upon seeing ivy’s normal lifestyle, watching her go to university and knowing that’s been taken from him. or an ache felt when hearing stories from zib and the band and how they used to travel successfully, living as nomads, and rocky is all too reminded of his similar lifestyle and how he couldn’t make it work as effortlessly. people with immense trauma are more prone to irrational anger and jealousy, to viewing everything around them as unfair and believing it’s even more unjust that so many people get to live comfortably while they’ve suffered. a situation that gets more messy when you’re someone like rocky, a man who’s willingly made choices that have harmed himself and wants to continue on with his smiling, bumbling fool of an act. he does not want to be angry, does not want to see it within himself, i think, which leads to an accidental increase of it.

all of this is to reiterate that wick is a scapegoat for rocky and nothing more. it’s why he’s rather hypocritical whenever it concerns the man. for example, it was stated by tracy that he looks down upon wick for his excessive presence at the bar, yet he appears to enjoy hanging out with zib -- who drinks just as often! he makes fun of how all wick ever talks about is rocks, when he himself is prone to poetry rambles that people find irritating or boring, and etc etc. this is also just a human nature thing, to critique someone you heavily dislike and even going as far as to belittle things you love or do in your own day to day because you just hate them that bad! but given rocky’s willingness to befriend anyone, it more so reeks of a dehumanization element. wick is every obstacle in his way, every divine force that threatens to send him packing again, so he is equal parts unnerved by wick’s presence and angry about it. it is mostly a fear response we are seeing, an emotion that’s morphed into long held resentment and anger. so his actions are extremely defensive, with him trying to push wick far away and keep him and mitzi separate, like some sort of animal attempting to ward off a threat that’s come too close to their home. despite the loaded animosity there, this hate has hardly reached its peak … but it shall only grow more intense as things continue onward i’m afraid, since as it stands ( in the comic at least ) rocky is at an all time low … and is ten times more desperate. i’d honestly say wick has become so warped in his mind’s eye that he can only strive towards ‘winning’ over the other man, because that’s all he can see anymore. i think mitzi implying that wick willingly helped her out, the intense head injury, and rocky’s fragile emotional state is exactly what pushes him towards premeditated murder in look-see. i don’t know how people perceive that arc, but to me it’s very clear that rocky actively sought to see the deaths of wes and fish that night. going as far as to lament that he’d be, “very disappointed if ( he ) dreamed them,” and purposefully luring the marigold duo away to have freckle pick them off. while you could argue that this was a smart move, in a gangster sort of sense, there’s still no denying that rocky is oddly chipper about the whole thing and is now seeking death out ; whereas before his methods of vengeance were just, well, ruining people’s livelihood but ultimately leaving them alive. this isn’t to discredit the fact that rocky is going through something! he is in a very muddled and dark place, mentally and physically, but even tracy has said that the head injury hasn’t changed rocky’s personality -- it’s only brought things to the surface.

source : q&a with tracy .

which, yeah! makes sense! head trauma can cause a person to become a wreck emotionally ( think mood swings, irritability, etc ) but it doesn’t completely morph someone either. personality changes may occur, but it’s not like you’re being rewritten entirely, you know? and given tracy’s old statement, it’s clear that ‘personality changes’ aren’t a side effect he’s suffering from. something that adds to my beginning statement, which is that rocky is a deeply angry and troubled person, more so than fans give him any credit for.

however, to touch upon your mini opinion about these two, i actually wholeheartedly agree that rocky and wick could become friends if circumstances were different. they do in fact have many superficial similarities, but one of the more prominent things they deeply share is never really belonging in the groups they frequent. this is more overt with rocky’s character, yet wick faces it too in subtle ways. the well-to-do crowd, seen through the investors, find the gentleman to be lacking in about every place imaginable ; to them he is an obsessive freak who cares too deeply for meager rocks, something they constantly mock him for, while he’s also being noticeably set apart from the rest of them … he seems younger than the investors, more excitable, passionate, and a little less experienced, and doesn’t seem to care for money or reputation as much as them either. there is a constant rubbing between him and them, where what he enjoys is seen as wrong, such as his love for the lackadaisy and his choice in paramor, a grieving widow with extremely dangerous ties. we also know that wick doesn’t have many friends at all, with the only two he has being lacy and church ( church is listed as such on his character profile, in a sort of tongue-in-cheek way ), both of whom work for or with him. they are obliged to hang around, and while they care in varying ways, they are prone to judging him just as much. honestly, it’s not shocking that wick seeks refuge at his chosen speakeasy! but even there he is rather distant from everyone else. he doesn’t speak to zib ever in the comics, nor seems all too close with viktor, ivy, or horatio … it is merely mitzi he is close to, even if he knows of the other people who work there. and, once again, wick very obviously doesn’t fit in. he is not gangster material, could never be an atlas may replacement, much less someone who could get his paws dirty in such an active way. so he has his feet in two different worlds and doesn’t know how to fit into either of them, or which one he actually wants to fit into more. i think in many ways rocky could relate -- these are two very lonely people who wish to belong somewhere and be accepted by some group or another but go about it in all the wrong ways. wick, who is too hesitant to fully commit to what he wants and is worse off for it, and then rocky, who obsessively throws himself against what he wants until he breaks every bone in his body. they also have explosives to bond over, lol, and other miscellaneous things like their taste in women i suppose … but this potential bond adds to the tragedy of lackadaisy, where we see two people who on every level should get along but we’re burdened with the knowledge that it’s an impossibility anyway, because there’s no removing the circumstance of which they’re in.

though i like to believe that despite wick’s fear of rocky, he maintains a kindness towards him regardless. i think his worries about rocky are rather surface level … he doesn’t know the boy at all, really, and thus can’t make heads or tails of him, hence him believing the lie in balderdash. so when i’m feeling particularly self indulgent, i like imagining a world where they’re forced together and sort of ‘stuck’ together ; to which rocky finally breaks and exposes his wounds to wick, in every sense of the word, and wick finally gets him. the aggression, the possessiveness of mitzi … it is all fear and desperation and a profound sadness, things he’d sympathize with. if rocky was able to explain that he loathes wick because if he saves the lackadaisy then mitzi won’t need him anymore and that it’s not fair that wick gets to so easily fix things when rocky would give his soul for his home, for her, and how wick could render every sacrifice he’s already made for naught by smoothing things over with some greenbacks and he can’t lose this, he just can’t --! … which, well, wick is too kind of a man to be able to do anything except feel awful, even though it’s not his fault at all. here we have two people who could coexist! and they should, since rocky logically can’t do every speakeasy job ( band member, rumrunner, mitzi’s shadow, also the guy who gets the money for the hooch ) by himself, just like how wick can’t save the lackadaisy with only his cash and limited booze stash. it’d be a joint cooperation, a collaboration between them, both equally important in the grand scheme of crime’s every turning wheel … but rocky’s rage and fear won’t let him see that, and likely never will. still, in scenarios where everything ends up alright for the lackadaisy and the people involved in it ( which is not how canon will go, by the way ), i fancy wick and rocky getting better within their relationship. rocky will always be prickly and quick to upset around the other man sadly, but perhaps he could see wick in a softer kind of light. or at least understand vaguely enough that he isn’t out to get rocky, so to speak. and then maybe wick learns that pancakes soothe rocky’s ire and poorly makes them anytime he wishes to talk to the man, and other fun things like that! but you should have more confidence in your character analysis skills, because you were spot on ( at least in my eyes ) about them potentially getting along if things were different. it’s certainly a fun aspect to play around with, and is important to note when discussing their relationship so you can fully understand just how warped rocky’s perspective on things are. and how unstable and traumatized he is too, of course </3 sidenote, but i also hope that throughout everything i’ve said here, or anything i’ve said before on my blog, that my love for rocky and my own sympathy for him comes across well enough. while he’s deeply flawed and i have no qualms discussing said flaws in depth, i also don’t think of him as some insane freak who’s evil at his core or anything like that. honestly, i adore analyzing him so much as a character because of how far down his issues go! he’s very well written, i’ll say, as is wick and many of the other characters, but i digress.

once more, thank you for the ask! i’ll end this here because i fear if i don’t i’ll start going in circles, since their relationship is so vast and very important for rocky in a character sense. hopefully i shed some more light on it though! i love these two to bits and pieces and i wouldn’t be half as invested in lackadaisy if their dynamic wasn’t so monumental -- at least to me.

[nyan-bynary]

modern au sukugo sukuna should be like 50 (or older!!!!!!) and gojo should stay 28/29

[crystallizsch]

hellooooo sunset savanna event

not me just eating up the lil jamil crumbs (he doesnt even show up here)

also damn??? jamil CANNOT get a break. like kalim said there’s already a bunch of staff coming from scalding sands why do they still need the 17-yr-old college student 😭

you could argue he’s exceptionally great and capable at his job that’s why he’s still chosen to help but omg this poor guy just leave him alone 😭

dsfsd anyways this made me laugh (it was a note given to kalim by jamil) i love these two a lot

ALSO YUU AND GRIM ARE MATCHING AGAIN RAAHHHH

i actually havent seen grim’s cloudcalling ribbon??? so it was a really cute surprise when he showed up with it 🥺

“SURPRISINGLY NORMAL” “NOT STRANGE” BRO ARE THOSE SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLIMENTS OR???? 😭😭😭

i mean thank you to vil for calling us charming i guess even though it still feels a tad bit backhanded

aight back to the jamil torment

jamil you poor poor soul but this is so hilarious there’s just zero breaks for this guy

welp i finished the whole event in one go cant wait to see what’s next 😤

[yellowjackets-1996]

(do you love me like that?) you're a reckless driver (I'm a reckless driver) and one day it will kill us if I —

[adjit]

This was originally going to go in my post on Dick and Tim's relationship in Red Robin, but I have moved it to a separate post because while I can draw conclusions from it that ultimately serve my defense of Dick, it's kinda a whole other subject.

If you know the story of Tim's hot girl summer, you might know this: he saw a portrait of an "ancestor" of Bruce's and realized that Bruce was alive, and trapped in time, which lead him on a worldwide quest to finding clues about where and when Bruce is. This is true! However, this is not how a reader would experience the comic. Because while the first 4 issues cover most of the saga of Tim's departure from Gotham, you don't actually see that he had any proof of Bruce being alive until issue #12- the end of the arc. And this was done 100% intentionally.

Details and analysis of this under the cut!

In issue #1, this is all you get (in two separate flashbacks spaced over the issue):

A closeup shot of his face, after throwing a bit of a fit and breaking shit, suddenly saying that Bruce is alive. That's it.

It isn't until issue #12 (which was published an entire real time year later!) that you finally get to zoom out and see what actually happened:

The first four issues jump back and forth between Brucequest and the events immediately preceding Tim's departure from Gotham, and while that time is mostly covered in these issues, they withhold from the reader that Tim had any proof until after everything is over. Tim never mentions it and it isn't shown on page.

This is done very intentionally to create narrative tension! It introduces mystery and doubt!

And more importantly, for the point of this post, it introduces the specific tension that Tim isn't sure if he's right that Bruce is alive and neither is the reader.

(Granted, comics readers are going to know that Batman is alive. They don't kill off big names in comics, not forever, and in any case you can read his adventures in time in a different comic and he's clearly alive there. But that's not the point and you know it.)

When Dick, Stephanie, and Cassie all react to Tim suddenly saying Bruce is alive with alarm, confusion, or pity, the narrative is constructed so that the audience is reacting the same way.

Why was this a part of my Dick defense? Because the narrative itself is reinforcing his view. Tim is supposed to come off as unreliable, information is withheld from the readers to invoke that reaction from them as well, and the characters believing that he's reacting poorly to grief are completely understandable.

But, if you'll allow me to go on some more analysis...

As I said, Tim never mentions his proof on page. He knows he sounds crazy, and yet not in a single conversation does he bring up what caused him to think this way. Throughout the first issue especially, he also has a way of insisting that he's right in a way that makes you think he absolutely does not think he's right.

"I know I'm right until I think too hard about it" really inspires confidence. Almost as much as "he's all I have and he has to be alive." That's definitely an argument based in logic and not in grief! (<- lying)

And thinking to yourself "Oh my god, it's true" when you actually find evidence is the sign that you really actually believed it before you found that evidence!

All this to say, Tim was not at all confident in his hunch. He himself doubted whether he was right, but he latched onto the idea in his grief.

Dick wasn't even wrong to believe that Tim was only believing this because he was grieving! Because he absolutely was! Tim was doing all of this as a last ditch effort and it was absolutely motivated by him not wanting to face a world where Bruce was gone. He ended up being right, but even he doubted his own original hunch, and underneath it all knew he was grasping at straws, even though he couldn't bear to admit that out loud. So much so that he, and the narrative, never mentioned it. Not until he already knew he was right.

[alchemiclee]

other people can ship what they want, but I will only ship aventurine gay and never a straight ship. the dynamic of straight relationships/ships is never balanced (societies fault mostly) and that boy sure needs some balance. if you ignore the het-ifying of gay relationships with the whole pointless top/bottom debate, gay relationships are more equal by nature. aven needs someone in his life who is his equal.

for example, in the story it was pointed out the footprints were side by side when he was walking with ratio. therefore ratio sees him as his equal. and i'm sure aven would feel more at ease with him if he wasn't dealing with everything he was atm. aven is such an unbalanced character fighting against an eternal power struggle of everyone towering above him, trying to beat his luck, and he's trying to get above for once. then ratio appears, treating him as an equal, balancing him. even if you dont see it as a ship/see it as a platonic ship/nonromantic/friends you still have to admit how good their dynamic is.

[disclaimer edit: "by nature" I mean society's and most individual peoples nature. nature not meaning "science" but the built in habit that's existed in society and taught to people for millenia and people treat as "fact" (when it's not tbh) sorry for confusion! dont know how to explain it well! i was half asleep when i made this post idk what i was trying to say exaclty but it upset someome so maybe delete later]

[tananais]

Elisabeth and Maximilian + bantering/teasing each other