#and ~*aesthetic*~ and not part of a specific subculture

[punkeropercyjackson]

Clear ups and headcanons on the Big Three Kids + alternative subcultures(by an alternative person who's autistic and has Pjo as a lifelong special interest)

Nico isn't emo.No i'm not joking,he's too optimistic to be emo and i'm not joking on that explanation either because once you stop taking his edgy front at face value,you see he's actually a very hopeful and soft boy.Nico is goth-Dark aesthetic,dower attitude and macabe traits heavily dealing with death and the darker supernatural

Hazel is goth too as an even grimer child of death and there's nothing more gothic than dying and getting ressurected to haunt your own narrative.Hazel shows a preference for light femininity so she would most likely be pastel goth specifically if she took up the aesthetic

Percy is the ultimate punk and it has nothing do with vague mentions of him skateboarding.Percy is punk because he fufills every requirement for being part of punk culture-He's a gender nonconformist who does direct action against a corrupt system as his entire motivation as a hero,hates the rich and talks shit to authority figures,performs activism in both his worlds,grew up a bully beater so hardcore he got kicked out 6 schools by 12,an intersectionalist that looks out for all his fellow minorities including the 'villains' of the franchise that got ropped into it against their will and even took in Nico and Hazel as his younger siblings and pseudo-kids for a double whammy as a huge part of punk is children's rights,textually an anarchist('the sea does not like to be restrained'),literally psychologically incapable of selling out as confirmed in a Tkc crossover short story and implied to listen punk music on multiple occasions.And sorry but Percy'd never be into grunge-It's too boring aesthetic for him and grunge as a music genre isn't Percy-coded at all and the only reason it's said to be is he's a 2000s kid and people are basic.Percy gives solarpunk and metalhead

Hazel is canonically punk for the same reasons Percy thanks how alike they are but also an additional reason is she is canonically darkskin black and punk culture is black culture as we created it.Percy is afrolatino-coded so he should be potrayed as such in punk!Percy or else you loose a big chunk of what makes him so punk and Nico may've been described as white but nothing should stop you from potraying him as black too as it's better writing for all three of the Dead Sea Siblings to be black and black Nico makes sense as he's got a lot in common with 'the black sunshine softboy who's also a little shit' characters(Gus Porter from The Owl House is just Nico di Angelo as an animated character down to his design tbh).Nico's physically disabled as he canonically has chronic fatigue and probs would develop chronic pain at this point so combined with his closeness to Percy and Hazel he realistically would go goth punk

Also not joking again:Percy is the My Chemical Romance obsessed one,not Nico.He's a millenial from New York with undiagnosed autism that was bullied at his schools with no friends and transfem bigender so Mcr is Percy-coded and he grew up on it along with Korn and Paramore for an alt trifecta.He introduced Nico and Hazel to it as bonding and punk mentorship and refuses to let them go to Hot Topic or even hear about it in favor of diy lessons and family thrift store trips with Sally.They still love Domo though(including Percy when i say this ofc)so that's how they get their Domo goods

Thalia is explicitly goth punk.Her style is described as a mix between the two,Green Day is a goth punk band and her attitude and actions match up the ideals of goth punk people,including that like Percy,she is gnc but in the opposite direction-She's a girl but masculine presenting and uncomfortable in traditional femininity.There's some pretty good hints that tie to trans lesbian Thalia even without her being butch and with her being black now it all comes together WITH an even better addition that there's a black version of Riot Grrrls called Sista Grrrls(Riot Grrrl for those who don't know is lesbian feminist punks and music)that Thalia would absolutely be one of,especially with the similarities between The Hunters and Riot Grrrls

Percy harrasses Poseidon for money for Nico's mobility aids and chronic pain meds,Hazel collects Blythe dolls and mixed media is her favorite artform to do and she runs a supernatural based bussiness website her brothers help her out on,Thalia cooks cosmic brownie edibles and Sally and the Dead Sea Siblings run a family bussiness called 'Familia Jackson Beach Shack' and Sally put the ball in the court of Percy going solarpunk with her love for the sea she passed down to him manifesting in a deep care for enviormentalism

Piercings:Percy has an eyebrow piercing,forward helix on both ears,a spider bite and a tongue ring,Nico has angel bites,a septum and snugs,Hazel has stacked lobels,double cheeks and a pink nose ring and Thalia has a nose ring,snake bites,ear gagues and an eyebrow piercing on the the opposite side of Percy's.Percy did Nico and Hazel's piercings for them and Thalia did her own and had them paper clip lookin' earrings in Ttc

Hair:Percy has long locs and his gray streak faded to white and he dyes his hair the mermaidcore style,Nico had an afro he occasionally put in afropuffs or an afro ponytail until he turned 17 and now he has slightly past the shoulder dreads with a loose bun in the back,Hazel is just like Percy yet again with a different hairstyle in each book as she had star-shaped afropuffs in Son,cornrows in Moa,twists in Hoh,sisterlocks in Boo and butterfly locs onwards and Thalia started with bantu knots before upgrading to an afrohawk

Perce has the caution tape on this bedroom door 2000s older brother requirement,Nico and Hazel attend the Special Ed school Percy was supposed to but melted down so badly over when he overheard Sally planning it when he was 9 she never brought it up again and he convinced them to go out of remorse and grief at what could've been and Nico is known as the outspoken activist nerd boy(affectionate)and Hazel is the IT Girl everybody loves and looks up to for her self-love of her weirdness and helping others feel the same and Thalia likes hanging out in abandoned places but never on her own as it brings up bad memories and rather takes Reyna with her so they can do it as dates to reclaim it and show her how much she loves her enough to trust her with that

Percy takes his siblings/kids to basement/underground shows and charity/community service on the regular and protests/riots too once they get old enough and they're all big into video games but only play secondhand,indie and free games on anti-capitalist principal.Their game nights go hard and they do graffiti and skatepark visits are every other day and Percy's sporting lipstick and eyeliner tears whenever he feels up for doing his makeup,either black or glittery blue(for both)and Nico looked up tutorials for tradgoth makeup to do and Hazel came up with pastel punk makeup styles all on her own to test her artistic ability and as a baby transfem confidence boost.Not an alt thing but it's very important to me they also got to the local cat cafe often and are the only reason it's still in bussiness🙏🏼

Thalia keeps things secret not because she wants privacy but because so many things she does break multiple realms' laws and she's got a gnarly tattoo sleeve.She's the loose canon fanon thinks Percy is and Percy still lives at home with Sally but before that,he revolutionized the greco-roman mythos world after graduating from Goode High,a year after Hoo and it lasted 4 years in 4 books in the sequel to it Tales of Dead Seas aka Tods

And Percy is heavy on sharks while Nico is batkin and Hazel has catlike aspects as a side effect of her ressurection and Thalia developed an unnervingly sturdy body structure from being a tree.Percy and Hazel are real into energy drinks and Nico perfers weird flavor sodas and Thalia loves crushing cans on her head after downing the whole thing and burping as long as she can

Percy is also 'I'm Just Your Problem' from Adventure Time-coded but the Ashe cover specifically and Hazel has a pair of pink skull headphones she's always wearing to listen to her authentic Lo-Fi Beats(read:by black artists),breakcore and nu metal songs and writes them in her digital diary too and Nico curiously enough enjoys trappunk the most.Thalia's been mistaken for Edith Victoria so many times she's started lying and saying she is her for the bit

And i said Hobie Brown is Percy-coded?I'd be objectively right

Also i just wanna say as the send-off:Normie/'Prep' Jason's not real.That's an entire black biracial man who's character was outgrowing his militaristic and golden child upbringing to befriend queer people and poc and definitely has wolf/werewolf therian shit going on seeing as he was raised by Lupa herself and is only not autistic and transmasc if you're illiterate.Jason's not punk but he follows the beliefs and listens to indie pop and dad rock and dresses like a faggy 80s horror movie jock and eats whatever weird food combo he can get his hands on on impulse and deep dives into lost media and has a lightning bolt fade and studed ears.Jason's not punk but he's a weirdo and a freak and he rides for and with us so we(Dead Sea Siblings + Thalia + irl alts)ride for and with him

[st-just]

My semi-endorsed nuclear take is that having a, like, coherent, defined 'queer/gay/lesbian culture' that's something you can meaningful talk about as distinct from the wider mainstream basically requires that queer people be marginalized and cut off from hegemonic/mainstream culture - if society becomes less homophobic and people don't have to deal with the very high chance of burning most of their interpersonal relationships and the culture they've grown up around to come out they...mostly won't? And if you don't need solidarity and the support and community of people you think are pretentious fucks or joyless ideologues or weird perverts or just assholes because the alternative is being left to die on the street, well, why would you put up with them?

So all the effort people put in to putting together a, like, sacral history of queerness with its own culture heroes and rituals and symbols everyone should know the significance of and respect is...I don't know, it feels a bit quixotic? Even when it's actually well-intentioned and not kind of off-puttingly parochial ('gay people were invented in Ancient Greece, then homophobia happens and until about 2012 they could only be found in New York and San Fransisco'), I'm kind of always left feeling like unless things go horribly wrong they're kind of doomed? At least insofar as they're trying to sustain a living culture and not assemble a museum exhibit.

Not that there aren't almost entirely queer subcultures around still of course but like, calling any one of them 'queer culture' excludes way more people that'd ostensible fit than it actually fits, I think.

[dionysus-complex]

man not to discourse about what is or is not goth when this is a topic I cared a lot about at age 16 and then not really ever again but idk I feel like there has got to be some middle ground between "Taylor Swift is goth" and "only bands from the UK Batcave scene (and maybe the US deathrock scene) in the early 80s are goth"

and maybe the main problem here is that no one seems to agree on whether the terms of the debate are about "goth as music genre" vs "goth as broad subcultural affiliation" vs "goth as aesthetic entirely detached from music" but regardless of whether you think e.g. NIN or Nightwish or Evanescence is goth, in 2024 it seems weird to deny that a lot of people who would consider themselves part of the broader goth subculture love these bands and grew up listening to them. and I guess I just don't have much patience these days for "um, technically NIN is industrial metal and therefore not goth" type arguments insofar as the end result is to produce a goth scene that prioritizes fidelity to specific early 80s models over experimentation and diversity

[the-cat-and-the-birdie]

The Hobie Brown Punk Playbook - Part 2. - What is Punk? (Punk 101)

A short series where I analyze the political, historical, musical, and romantic influences of Hobie Brown, and how it affects his arc, design, and character.

1) Anarchism 101 / 2) Punk 101 / 3) Hobie Characterization Guide (How to Write Hobie) /4) Punk & Hobie's Design / 5) Romance in the 70's __________________________________________________________

Clueless about punk? Know nothing about the 70's? Or wanna learn more? Start here! In the last part I examined Anarchy and what makes Hobie Anarchy personified. And next, I think it's only natural to turn my attention to the thing that makes Spider-punk - punk.

In this part I'm examining what punk is, why the movement was created, what punks believe, and what they stand against.

This is an analysis of Punk, 70's History, and why it makes Hobie who he is.

______________________________________________

Punk -

What is it? What 'makes' you a punk? And should Punk be Gatekept?

Punk can be hard to define - and that's by design. With the whole 'hates labels' thing considered, it's understandable. It may be easy to feel like punk as a concept is confusing, or daunting to even grasp.

But remember, Punk is made for the people - and it's made to be accessible and understandable to all people, of every class and ability - so I hope I can help!

Punk as a Subculture What is a sub-culture? Is a sub-culture the same as an aesthetic?

Punk is a 'sub-culture' - a specific type often called a 'counter-culture'.

In basic terms, a subculture is a lifestyle.

Goths, Punks, Vegans, Nudists, Surfers and even things like the LGBTQ+ community are considered subcultures.

Subcultures effect many things such as they way you dress or your taste in music, and your hobbies. But subcultures can also effect things like your morals, political affiliation, identity, behaviors, and the spaces you exist in.

Subcultures are usually based around morals (Veganism, Punk, Straight Edge.), hobbies (Surfers, Stoners, Ravers), or identities (LGBTQ+ and African-American culture). By engaging in activities, a manner of dress, or a patter on behavior in a subculture, it becomes is way to outwardly express your beliefs and feelings - while also connecting with people who feel the same.

For example - Although Surfers are united through a hobby in specific, it'd be safe to assume that a surfer would, naturally, be pro-conservation, pro-animal rights, and anti-pollution. A surfer that promotes ocean trash dumping seems weird, right? That's because the surfer subculture has a political identity defined by the movement's past. Although a surfer surfs - what makes them a 'surfer' as a opposed to 'someone who surfs' is their participation in a culture that includes other things besides surfing, such as music, dress, and even the way they live - like choosing to live beach side or convert to vanlife, choosing to live off very little, etc. They may do some or all of those things, but all their core, what makes them a 'surfer' is their hobby, beliefs, and dedication.

The same way the Surfer 'Lifestyle' is more than just surfing, the Punk 'Lifestyle' is more than just music.

Punk is a subculture, a counterculture specifically. But what does that mean?

What's a counter-culture?

A counterculture is a subculture that arises to directly challenge a societal norm.

Not all subcultures are countercultures; but a lot are.

For example - Drag-racing is a subculture that exists around a hobby. By racing they are engaging in a subculture, but they're not directly trying to challenge society. Whereas on the other hand - Someone who is Straight Edge is consciously choosing not to drink - and consciously choosing to identify as straight edge in addition the being sober - in order to challenge societal norms and behaviors around drinking and drugs.

Most counter-cultures arise in response to a political event or social development.

Is a subculture and an aesthetic the same thing?

No. Subcultures and Aesthetics differ in one way -

A subculture displays and effects identity. An aesthetic does not.

What I mean is - a subculture effects your beliefs, thinking, behaviors or political alignment. An aesthetic does not.

For example - Hippy is a subculture because it encompasses a thought system. When you see a hippy - its safe to assume that they are anti-war and liberal. A 'republican hippy' seems absurd, because inherently, there is a moral and political align attached to the movement. Whereas on the otherhand - Emo is an aesthetic because it does not encompass a thought system - It is has no moral or political attachments. Although it includes a manor of dress and music the same way hippie may - it lacks moral implication. Because of that 'republican emo' is not contradictory - whereas a 'republican hippy' is.

Because of this, it usually makes no sense to judge someone based on their aesthetic. On the other hand, as the fashion, music, and style go hand in hand with it's politics, it's safe to assume and judge aspects of someone based on their subculture or counterculture. Punk is a counterculture - so it inherently has moral connotations - tied directly to the historical events the influenced it.

While someone being emo may not tell you much about who they are as a person, Hobie being a punk can tell us a lot about who he is!

[I talk more about Punk, subcultures, and aesthetics here.]

Now that we understand countercultures and their function, let's look at punk in specific.

Punk - Basic Roots & Definition

By objective definition:

Punk is a counterculture that developed around the 1970's primarily in the cities of London and New York. Made up of almost exclusively of lower- and working-class folks of all ages - the movement grew in response to a couple of different political events throughout the 70's, all of which shaped the message and lifestyle that would become punk. Mainly centered around government corruption, surveillance, and anti-communism in the Western World, these events inspired a movement of anti-government, anti-war, anti-surveillance, and anti-capitalism.

With World War 2 ending in 1945, the world was left in a world divided between capitalism and communism.

With the start of The Vietnam war in 1955 (don't fret, I'll explain), average people were growing tired of the seemingly endless wars, and the corrupted, secretive governments that commanded them.

This gave way to the hippy movement - an anti-war counterculture centered around radical peace and pacifism. But as the Vietnam War stretch through the 60's and into the 70's, the hippy movement and it's pacifism waned.

As the CIA began to squash protests, and Western governments engaged in more corruption and espionage - the pacifism turned to anger, and the outcry turned to music.

What came next was Punk.

Now that we understand the roots of Punk - let's do a quick run down of the historical events that influenced it, and the beliefs that arised from it.

Before we begin, keep in mind that these are all events that Hobie would live through - and have opinions about. Born somewhere between 1958 and 1961, and living in 1978 (according to his intro mugshot) - all of these things would have an effect on Hobie, the way he was raised, and the struggles he had to face.

All of them have a really cool influence on Hobie and the punk movement, so let's take a look -

1978 Punk - Basic Historical Events & Beliefs

The Vietnam War (1955 - 1975) - A war between the Communist North Vietnam and Capitalist South Vietnam. In order to ensure the spread of Capitalism, the United States government crossed the globe into foreign borders in an attempt to secure victory for North Vietnam. They committed a LOT of atrocities that still effect the Vietnamese people to this day. In addition, The US government participated in drafting during this time. Eventually, the Communist Resistance proved victorious, and the country of Vietnam is currently communist. Resulting Punk Belief - Anti-Capitalism, Anti-War, Anti-Colonialism, Anti-Draft, Pro-Communism, Pro-Armed Resistance (in response to North Vietnam's armed victory.)

The Rise of Margaret Thatcher (1975-2013) - Often called the most hated woman in all of Ireland and probably the UK too, Margaret Thatcher is one of the most influential British Prime Ministers of all time. Leader of the 'Tories' (Short for Conservative) since 1975, Margaret Thatcher took office in 1979. Which means in 1978 - when Hobie is - she would currently be running her campaign for Prime Minister. Margaret Thatcher largely contributed to the unrest and conflict within the British-occupied Northern Ireland, as well as hardship within the working-class in her own country. Even though she left office in 1990, it can easily be said her damage lasted until the day she died, and even beyond. When Hobie says he hates the PM. He without a doubt means her. Resulting Punk Belief - Anti-Government, Anti-Conservative, Anti-Colonialism, Pro-Armed Resistance (in response to the Irish Republican Army)

The Civil Rights Movement - It can be hard to believe that Hobie's life overlaps with that of the Civil Rights Movement - but it does! With Malcom X's assassination in 1965, MLK's assassination in 1968, and Fred Hampton's (Black Panther Party) assassination in 1969 - regardless of how you age him - Hobie's childhood was largely characterized by the death of many Civil Rights Leaders in America. Even despite being British himself, Hobie would directly face this for much of his childhood - as racial segregation was legal within the UK until 1965 (around the time he'd be 4-7, if you age him 17-20). However this era was also characterized by the rise of Black culture in media, whether it be Disco, Ballroom, The Black Panther Party or Blaxploitation Movies. Resulting Punk Belief - Starch Anti-Racism, Extreme Race Solidarity, Affirmative Action, Black Pride

Queer Liberation Wave 1 (1969-1979 and onward) - After spending years as an oppressed, underground subculture Queer Identity and it's liberation came to limelight throughout the 70's. The 70's began and ended with two of the most important events in Queer History - The Stonewall Riots and The White Night Riots. In 1969, New York City police officers raided and brutalized patrons at a popular pub called 'Stonewall'. Many trans people as well as a number of drag performers were being arrested for cross-dressing, which was illegal at the time. Stormé DeLarverie - a mixed-race drag king and butch lesbian, called out in anger and desperation at a crowd of onlookers, which incited the riot that is known as the beginnings of the Queer Liberation Movement. Stonewall Inn still exists until this day - and a year after it's anniversary - the first ever pride parade was started in NYC. Ten years later in 1979, a man named Harvey Milk was running for office in California. An openly-gay man and activist, Harvey was assassinated by a man named Dan White. When Dan was only lightly sentenced for this however, 100k people marched for Harvey's justice - sparking a night of violence and direct conflict with the police. Resulting Punk Belief - Anti-Police, Anti-Justice System, Anti-Bigotry, Anti-Homophobia, Queer Liberation

Other notable historical mentions that are just as important but probably too complicated and/or boring for me to talk about:The Cold War (1945 - forever probably) - The on-going and ever-evolving power struggle between Capitalism and Communism, The West and The East, and nuclear warfare. Yay. Particularly heated due to the Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East. The Watergate Scandal and the Nixon tapes (1972) - The Nixon administration gets caught wiretapping an opponent's office. Nixon is caught on tape trying to cover this up. Tapes are leaked. Nixons resigns. The War on Drugs (1971 - forever probably) - The Nixon administration ignites 'The War on Drugs', a campaign for strict criminalization of drug use. Although a ploy to 'clean up streets' it's backwards logic actually led to more extreme drug conditions. In addition, it also overlapped with the CIA distributing cocaine and crack into Black communities in the 1980's so.... yeah the drugs won the war.

So, What does any of this have to do with Hobie Brown?

And Can Hobie be written better?

Now that we have a better understanding of the world that raised Hobie, when we look back at him, we can get a lot clearer view of who he is and what he probably believes.

[And if you need a second to look at him after reading this far I completely understand I do too here ya go]

With all that in mind, we can say:

Being born somewhere between 1959 and 1962, Hobie Brown is a black guy raised in an era of persistent conflict, growing conservatism, and on-going social change. His existence is resistance in and of itself.

History-wise:

Raised in the 60's and coming-of-age in the late 70's - Hobie's life has probably been characterized by persistent war, and a generation who met it with radical kindness and compassion.

Although Hobie is a punk himself, Punks and Hippies have roots in the same places and concerns - albeit it different approaches. But at their cores, they're about freedom - and compassion towards others who need it most.

Hippies centered their movement around kindness and non-violence, but also action through resilience, community, and peaceful protest. And Hobie may not believe in non-violence (which - he doesn't. He believes in violence let's be clear.) we can still see the influence of Hippies on his upbringing and behavior.

Throughout ATSV, Hobie's action are motivated and based on resilience within the face of an oppressive institution, and his actions of protests are direct ones - they're indirect, such as building community between him, Miles, and Gwen. His methodology is one of gaining intelligence and destabilizing from the inside.

Race-wise:

To put it blatantly, as this something I feel like isn't highlighted about his character enough-

Hobie would have direct and real experience and trauma around his race based on the time he's from.

And without a doubt, his race would be something he has a lot of pride in.

Hobie would be very vocally proud to be black.

For once, Hobie without a doubt would be raised in a time where racial discrimination and segregation was legal for the beginning of his childhood. He's raised by black people who have lived with this segregation and abuse for all of their lives. And despite the illegalization of segregation in 1965, many racist attitudes would still persist to his modern year.

But, this is Hobie we're talking about. Hobie also was raised in a time where pride in a black identity was stressed at every turn. He's a black guy in 1978. He has wicks. Those two things connect.

When you see his leather vest, your first thought may connect to Sex Pistols, or UK punks. But Black Panthers - a movement that existed all throughout his life, wore leather jackets just the same.

I believe the Panthers influence Hobie a lot too. Many know the Panthers for their direct conflict with police - and Assata Shakur (Tupac's Aunt) being a member.

But the Panthers were also ALL about community. In fact, they started a program to feed inner-city kids breakfast and lunch throughout summer. Many are still going across the country. {As a child, this program fed me and my schoolmates :) }

Hobie takes after them. He sees a younger black child in need of help, and he takes a break from fighting to help them, mentor them, and teach them about the cause. Hobie would absolutely have a Black Panther pin on his jacket!

This is something that is really just brushed over in fanfic and fandom and I'm hoping to write a piece about how to better characterize him because of this - but from here, let's keep this in mind!

Political-wise:

Hobie lived in a time of extreme change, progress, and political development. And to some, his methods may see just as extreme.

But now that we have a context for who he is and who he exists as, lets me transparent about it.

Growing up post-Hippy era, during the rise of conservatism in Britain - as a low-classer class black kid - Hobie's attitude towards activism would differ than those before him.

As most of the adult population seemed numb to war, and most of the Hippy subculture disbanded, outward rebellion and resistance would look a lot more pro-active in many ways, but just as thoughtful.

Hobie is very clearly an anarchist, but considering the political sphere of communism during the time as his behavior towards Miles and Gwen - I do believe he'd support communism, with anarchy being his primary stance and focus.

I honestly believe that Hobie would be pro-armed resistance. As Northern Vietnam and the IRA defended their homelands from foreign invasion, and the Black Panthers armed themself with guns against brutal police forces - Hobie's life would be colored with resistance through armed means.

Hobie uses his guitar as a weapon, both musically and physically, and he carries it openly. He doesn't need to do this. He's Spider-man. He choses to do this. I think Hobie would approve of the oppressed arming themselves, and that's why he does it himself.

And of course, he's anti-police or any form of military, militia, what have you. They are the arm of the state and exist only to target civilians with their will. I believe he would have no sympathy for police - as actual punks in his era had no sympathy for police. [And if he did (he doesn't) he'd be directly shunned by every other punk for doing so, because wtf.] But out of respect for the actual punks who inspired him, the Black activists brutalized, the queer people targeted, and all those who suffered under oppressive policing during this era (many of which are still alive and maybe even our parents), lets all agree Hobie outwardly and vocally hates police.

For many reasons. Many reasons personal and influenced by direct experience with him, or people he cares deeply about.

Please keep that in mind. It's quite literally impossible for Hobie to not be affected by these events to some extent.

Personality-wise:

This will be expanded in the next part - and of course this is just my opinion, but personality-wise, I think: Hobie is very politically educated and dedicated. And I feel like this is another thing that isn't highlighted enough or shown enough in fandom.

Hobie's morals, behavior, and methodology doesn't come from nowhere - and although they may be expressed in the music he listens to, the music itself is not the source.

It comes from direct experience with political action outside of being Spider-man.

Based on his deep understanding of anarchy and punk, we can guess that Hobie's very well-read, particularly in history and social theory. Both the IRA and North Vietnam were Marxist-Leninist, so it wouldn't be far of a leap to say that Hobie could be anarcho-communist.

Hobie would absolutely take the time to read - things like the Communist Manifesto, the Black Panther literature and other things.

In my opinion, from all of this - I can only assume Hobie is a reader, an avid one. He without a doubt participates in direct action outside of being SM - such as attending an anarchist/communist union, attending protests out of costume, organizing and planning meetings with other leftists, collecting and gathering supplies and food for those in need, squatting and securing housing for the homeless, and a lot of other things punks that aren't Spider-man do.

It kinda wouldn't make sense for him not to. He was a punk before he was Spider-man. When Hobie isn't being Spider-punk, and he's being a normal punk - if we try to consider how he spends his free time, a lot of the time our instinct is to imagine him and band. And that's a large part of Hobie.

But all of this is too. These are all things Hobie enjoys, because Hobie enjoys helping people. When Miles breaks free from the society, he's happy for him. It's all he wants.

_____________________________

When we genuinely put Hobie into these scenarios, it really helps to humanize him. We can all see the depth in his character, and that depth comes from a real, genuine place.

Like a punk opposing the draft, Hobie opposes the oppressive leader that mandates the trauma of youth. Like a Black Panther with their afro, Hobie wears his hair with pride.

All of these events contribute to him and who he is, and he shows it with everything he does and chooses to be.

I hope understanding these events helps you understand Hobie and his motives more - and I hoped this post helped you understand the history of punk more!

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This is UNGODLY long - and ungodly wordy. But if you read this far, thank you! And I hope it helped at all! If you learned anything or have any questions, please let me know! I'd love to hear your thoughts, insights, revelations, etc. As you can probably tell I love rambling about Hobie and I'm totally normal and functional and not at all obsessed.

Please stick thoughts of Hobie Brown in my enclosure. I promise I'm normal about him. Thanks again!

[gothiccharmschool]

Auntie Jill,

I have recently come across some claims that Goth is strictly a music subculture, and that if a person does not listen to goth music, they are not a *real* goth. I wanted to know your opinions on this, as someone with great knowledge on the gothic subculture and its history.

Sincerely,

A wee baby bat

AHAHAHAHAH oh G-D the never ending argument ... er, debate. The short form of my opinion: Yes, the modern goth subculture sprung out of the postpunk music scene of the late 70s/early 80s. But part of the reason the subculture thrives to this day is that music scene went hand-in-hand with a specific aesthetic and artistic references. And who is defining "goth music"? That umbrella term covers a LOT of sub-genres. There is no checklist of Bands You Must LIsten To In Order To Be Goth. (There isn't, I will fight those who say otherwise.) So. The goth subculture is strongly tied to music, but that isn't the sole thing that defines the subculture. If you want to read more of my thoughts on this: The Never-Ending Goth Debate

A Slight Reprise of the Never-Ending Goth Debate

[mayakern]

hello! I have watched your videos and I am sorry the preorder is going so poorly. You all have poured so much time and care and thought into these, and if anything I think you're doing *too much* in the way of trying to accommodate customer requests when it comes to color/pattern specifically. for all that you are so open with your back-end processes, you guys are always going to be able to see the big picture better than anyone. Also, you have way more at stake in your design decisions than your customers do.

all this to say - don't make your pattern decisions based on polls! Use demographic data, sales data, seasonality, info about what colors (and complementary items) are currently popular in other stores - polls might have a place in there, but they're not super trustworthy and they can't bear all of the weight, because ultimately you know more than we do.

I also want to tell you that I'm so appreciative of the lengths you're going to to provide us with lovely, sustainable fashion for all sizes and texture tolerances, and I hope this doesn't discourage you for long!

i appreciate your thoughtfulness.

previous to this experience, polling our customers has been very effective. it just sucks that wasn’t the case this time because this was the time where we really needed to make sure we had a hit because the shirt and dress are SO expensive for us to make.

in the past we have just kind of done our own thing and said screw it. most of our customers aren’t super concerned with being on the cutting edge of trends, which is good, because that would be an impossible standard for us to follow when production cycles take minimum 2 months AFTER product development is complete and trend cycles seem to change every other week with the advent of shein and other fast fashion sites being able to pump things out super fast and the life cycle of everything on tiktok being super short, in part due to the generational shift from subcultures to aesthetics.

we’ve been having a lot of internal conversations about this situation and what to do going forward. in large part i think what we’ve learned is that any more complicated pieces (like the shirts) we need to make with less expensive fabric. the cost of a garment isn’t just about how much fabric it takes, but how many lines of stitches are required and if any specialty processes or materials are used (sewing in buttons, adding zippers or gussets, etc). ultimately the shirts are expensive not just because of the high quality material, but also because they are a complicated garment made by people who are being fairly compensated for their labor. we can lower that price slightly in the future by changing the materials we use, but by and large this means we will be trying to focus on less complicated garments in the future.

[arotaro]

I love voidpunk but I’m also curious about if there are any guidelines or rules, like what things are allowed and what things aren’t? /genq sorry if you’ve answered this before or answered something similar and I missed it I’m not super pro at finding stuff 😭 also double sorry if it’s an offensive question to ask. I’m genuinely not trying to offend you I’m just trying to learn more and since I’m kind of a baby queer I want to make sure the words I use fit me.

You can check the voidpunk tag on my blog, since I have talked about it before, but I'll go over some quick points:

There is no "requirement" for participating in voidpunk. Anyone who tells you "oh, only such-and-such group can be voidpunk" or anything along those lines is lying. HOWEVER:

The "punk" part of voidpunk is not there for no reason. It is tied to the punk subculture and it's best to have a general understanding of this subculture before participating in voidpunk. Also, voidpunk is specifically a reaction to dehumanization, and it's important to understand that certain people experience this more than others. People of color get dehumanized. Disabled people get dehumanized. People with personality disorders get dehumanized. Trans people get dehumanized. Aspecs get dehumanized. etc. etc. We are here to call attention to and take power away from this, not to be niceys about it. I left the voidpunk subreddit and its associated Discord server because it was full of entitled white cunts who acted like they couldn't possibly be racist because they were autistic or some shit and I was being sooooo mean and disruptive for asking them not to be blatantly racist, and I just want to make it clear that if this had been a real life social group and not an online space, I would have knocked their teeth out. Understand? That said, you don't have to be every oppressed minority ever to participate in voidpunk- you just have to be respectful and willing to listen.

One misconception I see very often is that voidpunk is some sort of personal identity along the lines of otherkin, etc. This is not true. Voidpunk is an aesthetic and philosophy, NOT about genuinely believing yourself to be inhuman. There certainly may be people who identify as both voidpunk and otherkin, or what have you, and that's fine! That's cool! I love those people. But they're not synonymous and should not be treated as such. You don't assume I'm really a vampire because I'm goth, right?

Also, the "void" part of voidpunk doesn't really mean anything. Genuinely, it was chosen because it sounds cool. I think another misconception I see sometimes is that voidpunk specifically is about like, literal voids or shadows or black holes or space or something, which is not true. It's kinda whatever. There are as many flavors of voidpunk as there are blue guys in the X-Men.

Have fun!

[chere-indolente]

Treat #1 : The Aesthete

This treat is a 1880's Set inspired by the Aesthetic movement aka victorians cosplaying previous eras (mostly the Middle Ages) and simping for Oscar Wilde. More pics and download below

It includes the following CC items :

Thought these oufits are specifically suited for the 1880s, the Aesthetic or Artistic dress movement is somewhat of a victorian fashion subculture dating back to the 1860's.

The people participating in this fashion were part of the artistic sphere, so definitely not your typical victorian person and this style wasn't always well-regarded by the rest of society. The Aesthetic dress movement never went mainstream and most of the dresses in that style were house dresses and tea gowns, giving them more casual and private uses. But this fashion nonetheless impacted trends of the following decades (trains, puffy sleeves, flowy silhouettes... ring's a bell ?).

This movement was strongly influenced by Pre-Raphaelite paintings (hence the medieval inspired elements) and linked to the Arts and Craft movement. For the women the dresses were usually plainer than what was typical of the time (not hard given how mainstream 1880s fashion went really trim crazy), potentially homemade, with less structured silhouettes (possibly worn without corsets).

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Download : dropbox — simfileshare

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And if you're curious here were my main visuals references for this set :

[sproouts-jpeg]

one piece straw hat post-ts redesigns part 3: nico robin!!

this one took a decent amount of effort, i actually had to try more than once to get the design right lol

i guess i should start with what i dislike about her original post-timeskip outfit:

i like the kind of spy vibes achieved by the slicked back hair, shades, and leather top, but all that kinda falls flat when paired with the tropical wrap/skirt and bright red heels. it feels like two halves of two different outfits put together. like if oda had a really good idea for the top half of robin’s outfit, but got stumped on the bottom half and just settled for a tropical/beachy vibe since they’re out on the ocean…?? ig…??

maybe this is nitpicky, but while that giant wrap/skirt thing is pretty, it looks like it could fall off at any point. and it doesn’t look like she’s wearing anything underneath. and her heels are impractical. my mom can walk better in heels than in flat shoes on solid ground, but not when it comes to treeking through rough terrain. i don’t think a broken or twisted ankle should befall our adventuring archeologist.

also! her post-ts jolly roger features a cowboy hat, but none of her outfits since sabaody archipelago have featured even an ounce of cowboy vibes!! a very serious problem in my opinion!

ok now onto the design itself:

i initially tried following the moodboard i made, but ended up almost completely ignoring it for the final design.

she’s a multifaceted woman, which was kinda difficult for me to represent all in one outfit.

obviously i wanted to reference her general cowboy vibes she had going on all throughout the pre-timeskip.

i wanted to keep the spy vibes too, since it matches her skills with espionage! idk how well i kept that tho, since i also specifically wanted a lighter color palette.

the palette was inspired by robin’s wano arc outfit, my favorite of hers!! the focus on lighter colors while still maintaining the blue and black suits her very well!! she’s so pretty!! i also wanted it to specifically contrast the deeper colors she wore pre-ts, symbolizing her softening as influenced by her crew and how she no longer needs to hide herself from the world

she’s always going to be a little goth to me tho! her fascination with the macabre fits well with the ideologies of the subculture. i was especially inspired by her deep purple dress with that lace trim she wore during thriller bark, it gives me whimsigoth vibes. so i wanted to reincorporate the wrap in a way that feels like something she would authentically wear!

and obv i like to design my outfits to be more utilitarian, with little details of stuff more useful to robin’s role as the archeologist! like a book holster! she’d probably have a bag too… but i forgot to design one…

and here she is!!! ain’t she purdy!!

her cowboy boots have laces, cause i think it’d be a weird little detail oda would add to clothes. it also makes them look more like victorian women’s boots, referencing the victorian influences of the revolutionary army’s steam punk aesthetic! speaking of the ra… they were a complete afterthought to the process… i just don’t think high necklines and frills and balloony sleeves suit robin ;-; so i gave her these little belt straps at the bottom of her dress pants to secure them kinda like you would hakama. also cause there’s a lot of unnecessary decorative belts in steampunk lol.

her corset is based off this vivian westwood denim corset featured in my moodboard! except i added that fastening thing from robin’s enies lobby outfit! i think that outfit is supposed to be based of a biker’s jacket??? but i digress! the purple embroidery is a camellia! i chose camellias cause they look kinda like robin’s hana hana fruit, but also cause they represent her perseverance and grace! the fringes? are for the added cowboy vibes! the wrap also has camelias instead of monsters leaves and hibiscus flowers! the lace trim replacing the tassels looks kinda like spider webs for the spookiness!

her silver bangles were inspired by the little bracelets she originally wore, as well as silver headdresses worn by the yakut tribe in russia! according to the volume 56 sbs robin irl would be russian, and id also imagine her as indigenous! the belt was just cool and also happened to be silver. the earrings and pendant on her hat are also supposed to look like victorian cameo pendants, not explicitly steam punk but that’s ok!

i was having a really hard time choosing her hairstyle! i wanted to give her short hair, since i really liked that one sketch in oda’s post-ts concept art! also representative of her letting go of her painful past, the whole “hair holds memories” thing. but i couldn’t get it right with the choppy rectangular shapes ;-; her ponytail is very majestic tho :)

speaking of hair! i had to go on a mini rant to my mom about how difficult for it is for non op fans (and from a design perspective) to tell apart boa hancock and robin for multiple reasons (hairstyle, whitewashing skin color, oda’s artsyle’s weird-ass sexual dimorphism, dress, etc). so i made a little graphic to show how they can be visually different while having technically similar features!

and her jolly roger! now accurate!

and my first attempt at designing robin… i used to just be ok with it, but i don’t like it at all anymore lol

i hope yall like! up next is luffy! after that… great question i am so soooo slow and drawing men scares me ;-;

edit: oh also! @chialattea !!! i made another one!!!

[dallasgallant]

Time period post: Teenage culture

Now “youth culture” has been a thing since the early 20th century but it really began to take off and see “teenage” as its own thing in the 1950s. Both as a new group to advertise to but also as a distinct time in life. Now while it was still a relatively new demographic the 1960s is when things really began to kick off and sort of the height of the age, rebellion, catering and so on and you can sort of tell a lot of it was throwing at the wall and seeing what sticks. Shows, music, products etc.

This is just a quick post on a bunch of topics related to that, but for further looking into

- “Age of teen angst”

- “Teen car culture”

- 1960s hangouts

- dissolving censorship/more freedom of the time

Teenage rebellion! Distancing from parents, wanting to have fun and danger and change tradition. (Especially with the way the world was changing at the time with social justice and technological advancement) Clothes started to be less conservative, hair got bigger and longer, kids got more openly touchy and expressive etc.

Cars have always been a part of rebellious youth culture since their invention, they represent both a literal freedom in being able to travel and sexual freedom (unchaperoned, away and private - another aspect to reach a peak in the 50s and 60s with drive ins and look out/make out points)

Subcultures were also huge, not to be mixed with today’s “aesthetics” a subculture isn’t a short form thing based souly on appearance. Its looks, beliefs/attitudes, often music taste etc. where you were in the world and social class has a lot to do with it. (For examples Greasers being working class, city/some suburban, like rockabilly etc)

Regionality-

Speaking of place! The world in the 60s was not even close to as interconnected as we are today, sure you may get a little more of the world news on tv but it wasn’t this melding we have. Culture of counties, regions, states etc were much more distinct (same goes for accents) and while more things were shared across the world things weren’t universal.

Being from Tulsa Oklahoma you’re going to be more concerned with Tulsa Oklahoma and what’s done there than say New York. You’re not going to know everything or care about everything. There was more local and community focus. And perhaps a much more optimistic view of the future in SOME regards, huge time for technology, space travel, social change etc.

Where you are also affects availability, you’re not exactly going to have the hot new fashion in small city Oklahoma. Especially not just ordering it off Amazon- people traveled, waited for things to come, order from magazines etc.

Food-

Fast food is not brand new but is still relatively, they’re not nearly as common as they are now days. Most of the time when going on a road trip, people would still pack food rather than have the expectation of stopping at a drive thru all the time. However it was coming more common.

Some of the wacky gross foods of the post ww2 period were still “in” and the same goes for some Great Depression recipes. You could also find a lot of stuff in a can or processed, precooked etc. they were convient and exciting at the time… I’d bet the boys like a lot of stuff we’d consider “gross” tv dinners were also a big hit.

Dating-

This differs across class lines but there was still a lot of older rituals that were still followed in the 60s depending on who you were, these sort of holdovers from “courting.” Stuff like promise rings would be much more of a Soc thing than for greasers— though I think giving jackets or other items that aren’t a specific thing like a promise ring are general.

Dating was becoming its own thing for a few decades and didn’t have to result in marriage. Relationships were simultaneously slow with steps and milestones (1st base, 2nd base etc. lol- aren’t “official” but sort of a real thing) but quick as it’s also a thing to marry pretty damn fast and young… shotgun or otherwise.

There was a more “loose” idea on dating and relationships while some more traditional elements also remained, again it depends on who you are, where you are, class, race etc.

[rocksanddeadflowers]

something I've been thinking about is how interesting it would be to see the goblincore/gremlincore/corvidcore type aesthetic to evolve into an actual subculture. obviously for starters we should change the name bc anything ending in -core just doesn't sit right with me? unless of course it becomes that "placeholder name turns true name" sorta deal but ANYWAY.

main three key elements I've noticed that tend to make up a subculture is: style/outfit presentation (the optional part), belief system, and music genre(s).

style and presentation: (like what you wear), that part is already obvious if you ever followed the aesthetic at any point. (it was trendy for a time I think, is it still trendy? bc idk if it is but that's not stopping me from loving it.) basically wearing majority earth colors like browns and greens, stuff like hobbit-esque cloths or sweaters and stuff. definitely LOTS of nature based themes or just wearing weird trinkets. gotta go for that "creature directly out of the chronicles of spider wick" type look you know?

with the clothes (and often interior design I've noticed, which my entire bedroom would probably fit the aesthetic actually) one thing I've noticed for most who are into the aesthetic is there is a LOT of DIY. also going out and collecting things you find (anything from mystery trinkets to dead bugs and sticks and rocks, which I grew up doing and would call myself a tinker bc I made stuff out of what I found very often).

belief system: I feel like, above all else, beliefs commonly held among people in this aesthetic is to respect and be in nature, as well as do not waste, reduce and reuse. a lot of environmentalist like stuff, as well as seeing and respecting the beauty of nature, from butterflies and flowers to dirt and corpses. I don't have a solid concrete answer for belief system, but hopefully that sums up my view on it.

music genre: folk/folk punk, fantasy DND type genres, and nature based lyrics and vibes. from my experience and digging around, there's less artists who catch the vibe of this aesthetic all around (bc that's not what they're trying to do), and moreso having a couple or handful of songs that fit so very well. unless of course it's a genre of music that is enheritly matching to this aesthetic.

anyway, I'm not great at explaining the music aspect of it, but I feel like if it's magical and yet sorta punk-like that can work. no limits here yet, I have a playlist on my youtube that definitely pushes the boarders but who cares? the thing has celtic woman and httyd score on it. I just think if this evolved into having music for the genre (idk if we could call it a music based genre since it didn't start that way but I mean overall having a genre of music dedicated to this aesthetic-turned-subculture) it would be really interesting to hear what comes of it.

circling back for a minute, I feel like punk comes hand-and-hand with a couple of things here, but specifically mainly eco-punk. like diy, reduce and reuse, etc. as well as the music, while not deeply punk still feels like it would have a punk undercurrent.

I also think this could parallel well with goth, with the dark romantic sorta stuff. the music and belief system having love and adoration for the strangest and darkest aspects of nature, similar to goths seeing beauty in the darkness and creepiness of the world.

if anyone actually read this I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on my little rant (suggestions for bands/musicians and similar subcultures/subculture parallels are very encouraged) bc I grew up doing pretty much everything within this aesthetic long before I knew it was a thing or maybe even before it was a thing. that isn't meant to be gate keepy. I mean that when I found out just how many other people liked and did the same things as me, it was just so cool. so I just really wanna talk to people about this and I think something like this aesthetic could easily become a subculture one day.

[imnotavamp1r3]

♡ A guide to emo, goth, and scene! ♡

So since I see a lot of confusion over certain subcultures are and the differences between them, I thought I would make somewhat of a master post basically outlining the characteristics and differences of three aesthetics that I see misinterpreted a lot. If I do at any point get something wrong, feel free to correct me because I really don't intend to spread misinformation.

🎀 Emo

Emo is a music based subculture that first emerged in the 80s out of the hardcore scene. The name emo came from the music genre emocore, which was short for emotional hardcore. The fashion is typically pretty casual, with some staples being straightened and teased hair with a sideways fringe, black clothing, band shirts, arm warmers, sneakers, skinny jeans, fishnets, arm warmers, wide leg pants, studded belts, and merchandise from various properties like Emily The Strange, Nightmare Before Christmas, and Ruby Gloom.

Since the early days of emo, the music in the subculture has expanded outside of hardcore and post-hardcore, and has since gone on to include alternative rock, horror punk, metalcore, pop punk, and screamo. Some of the most prominent artists in the scene are Avril Lavigne, Blink 182, Fall Out Boy, Green Day, My Chemical Romance, Panic! at the Disco, Paramore, Pierce The Veil, and Sleeping With Sirens.

Since the subculture is mainly music based, fashion is not as important to being considered part of the scene. Therefore, not dressing in a specific way while listening to the music wouldn't make you a poser, but dressing emo while not listening to the music would. What is not considered emo is listening to a random genre of rock music. Bands like Metallica and Nirvana, while enjoyed by many emos, are not emo bands and therefore don't make someone emo. Furthermore, I can't believe I need to say this, but, contrary to what many people seem to think, kawaii people are also not emo. While it is common for kawaii people to listen to metal and other heavy music genres, their style is not at all similar to emo and they don't consider themselves as part of the subculture either.

🎀 Goth

Goth is probably the oldest subculture here, with it dating back to the 70s English punk scene, with bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees and The Cure pioneering the culture. The post-punk band Bauhaus' debut single 'Bela Lugosi's Dead,' a song inspired by the famous horror actor Bela Lugosi, who portrayed Dracula in the 1931 film adaptation and also starred in White Zombie which is a film that's typically referred to as the first zombie movie, is often considered the first gothic rock song.

Goth is a subculture with many different sub-subcultures. Some of the most popular are batcave, bubble goth, cyber goth (formerly referred to as gravers), death rock, mall goth (formerly known as spooky kids), nu goth, romantic goth, steampunk, vampire goth, and, my personal favourite, gothic lolita. Contrary to what many people think, I don't consider aesthetics like pastel goth (which I do love) to really be a part of goth since it doesn't have roots in goth. Obviously I'm not going to go over every substyle because that would take way too long and would have to require its own post, but some common staples in most of these styles is lots of black, horror-inspired imagery, very big teased hair, black or red lipstick (red was the most common in the earlier days), and very pale almost white skin. Therefore, e-girls and emos (e-girls especially) are not goth. Also, the fetishisation of the 'big tiddy goth girlfriend' is very demeaning and offensive to goths, as well as just not funny at all because of how it objectifies and reduces them to simply walking breasts who wear black.

Goth music is, in my opinion, some of the most accesible and palatable alternative music. The most popular genres are dark wave, electronic rock, gothic rock, industrial metal and rock, new wave, and post-punk. Some of the most popular bands are Bauhaus, Evanescence, Joy Division, Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Birthday Massacre, and The Cure.

🎀 Scene

Scene is an aesthetic that originated in the 2000s on the website MySpace as a derivative aesthetic to emo. Many scene kids were considered emo posers because of their unconventional style and the music they listened to, which included genres ranging from crunkcore to metalcore, often being considered 'trashy' by other subcultures. Despite all of the hate towards scene kids, many embraced their label and many of the most popular people in the subculture started being known as scene queens who are also often credited as the first influencers. This included people such as Ambrehhhisdead, LedaMonsterBunny, and Melissa Marie Green.

Some staples to the style are colourful clothes, straightened and teased hair with colourful raccoon hair extensions, the scene swoop fringe, brass knuckles or diamond necklaces, bows, leopard print, zebra print, colourful shorts, tutus, tight clothes, sunglasses, knee high converse, band shirts, and merchandise of characters like Gir from Invader Zim, Gloomy Bear, and Hello Kitty. Personally, I would consider the modern rendition of scene, scenecore, to be a different aesthetic that, while it is pretty similar to scene, typically borrows from aesthetics like glitchcore rather than emo or mcbling.

Scene music is pretty diverse in what it provides, as it ranges from very heavy genres such as deathcore and metalcore to more pop and rap adjacent genres like crunkcore and neon pop. Some of the most prominent artists are 3OH!3, All Time Low, Asking Alexandria, Blood on the Dance Floor (unfortunately), Bring Me The Horizon, Brokencyde, Cobra Starship, Dot Dot Curve, Jeffree Star, Ke$ha, Metro Station, and Millionaires. A lot of the music is known to ignore many of the typically conventions of music, with the lyrics often containing themes relating to partying and sex.

That's it, byeeeee! ˚｡⋆୨୧˚♡

[hwaightme]

Your fan, Hongjoong (part 1)

(part 2) (your fan ml)

👘 pairing: hongjoong x fashion designer!reader 👘 genre: romance, fluff, mutual pining 👘 summary: a bulletpoint-style wordstream of what it would be like if hongjoong was stanning you 👘 wordcount: 5.5k (help) 👘 warnings/tags: language, radio shows, reader is goth, goth subculture, a bit of mutual pining, seonghwa aries rage, san is sus, jealousy, DRAMA(rama), hongjoong is starstruck, reader has her own fashion house/brand, photoshoots, brand collabs, demon line boutta act up 👘 a/n: Hello fabulous people <3 Here we have, the one, the only, the legendary, Hongjoong next in the Your Fan, ___ series! Thank you so much for your love and support, reblogs, likes, asks and comments all welcome

"So alongside your brilliant songs, you are also well known for having breathtaking performances, with an edge that only ATEEZ can do. Could you elaborate on what exactly goes into creating your unique aesthetic?"

Hongjoong looked around the studio. Him and Yunho, being the resident radio DJs, had been invited onto a show to promote their newest comeback, and talk all things creative arts.

There had been a number of guests before them who he looked up to, from others in the music industry, to visual artists, writers, and designers. This was the way in which he had discovered new changemakers, and got to know those stars he had deemed 'unreachable'. Breathtaking, but there to be admired from a distance.

"I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the amazing designers and stylists that we work with. Really, without them none of this would be possible and ATEEZ would not be the same."

"Definitely, with each stage and comeback, it seems that there is no end to just how much they, and you, can wow the world. Now, there is a particular fashion house that ATEEZ has been collaborating with recently, could you tell us more about that?"

Now that was an interesting direction to steer into. This was very new on the horizon for ATEEZ, and few media had covered this so far. Hongjoong perked up, forgetting the tranquility that he had to normally adopt for such shows, instead letting himself bask in the rays of his passions.

More specifically, your brand. He had known of its existence, thanks to a serendipitous selection by his stylist, before he had even figured out who the brain behind the art was. He discovered the connection entirely by accident - through this radio show.

You had come in for an interview, much like Hongjoong and Yunho, and sat in one of these seats, telling your story. This same man who was asking them questions, had conversed with you. This appearance was like Hongjoong's little moment to connect with his unreachable star.

You were notoriously elusive, so public appearances were few and far between, and this explained why he had initially not even associated you and the brand together. But as it turned out, that had been the point. The lore was strong in this one.

You had explained during the show that you felt no need for your personal image to be connected to the brand itself, as the garments and those who wore them were the real imagemakers. You had also shown a deep understanding of the subcultures from which you took inspiration and, yourself, followed, diving into legends who had pioneered their popularisation over the decades. In all honestly, that had him hooked, and left him wanting to learn more about how your mind worked.

"Ah yes, more than happy! ARNURI is a brand that we only recently started working with, and could not be more happy. The brand has a world view and prides itself on destroying boundaries in fashion. There is no gender, no size, no limit to what can be achieved. It actually takes inspiration from the variety that is within goth subculture and totally redefines what is meant by luxury. I mean, their slogan is 'lead by antithesis' after all."

He had paraphrased your introductory speech from one of your first exhibitions after you had your big break at one of the Fashion Weeks. It had been a solo show, organised outside of any specific season, every detail paying homeage to what had been advertised as 'embracing the darkness of nature'. For this show, you had scouted models among your friends, among the myriad of citizens of Seoul, and used those same city streets as your catwalk.

Maybe the reason why that particular event had spoken to Hongjoong was because it reminded him of the street busking he had done in his early days. The days of when one risked it all for a future that was not guaranteed, simply because they had hope.

Hongjoong could go on, but Yunho's shift to balancing his head on his hand as he rested his eyes on the captain, and batted his eyelids like a Disney princess made him stop abruptly.

Not that the host had noticed.

"Ah yes! And isn't the name, ARNURI, a play on "Our World?"

"Uh, yeah!" caught off-guard by the follow-up since he was trying to telepathically communicated to Yunho to cut whatever he was trying to do out, he stumbled over his words a little. But it was easy enough to settle back in once he thought of the moment KQ management had shared the official communications between the two companies with him.

"So it was quite funny when the brand approached us for this, they actually quoted our song 'New World'. Really if it were up to me I wouldn't even ask for a portfolio at that point."

"Of course you wouldn't..." Yunho whispered, leaning away from the mic so it barely caught, serving like background noise more than anything.

Hongjoong's head snapped in the other member's direction, but he was met with legendary nonchalance. Truly, the epitome of 'it's not awkward unless you make it awkward'. The guy even raised an eyebrow back at him as though Hongjoong was acting out of line.

"That is magnificent, it was meant to be! Maybe there are some ATINY in the company!"

"Oh we wish!" Yunho interjected, a chuckle escaping him as he glanced in Hongjoong's direction.

"Well, we are very much looking forward to seeing more of these fantastic designs, and the photoshoot that ATEEZ will be doing with ARNURI! Maybe you will be able to create some items together? Can ATINY hope for a new line in the future?"

"Hah, I do enjoy altering clothing and really letting creativity run free, but I am looking forward to the learning-".

"Oh yeah, Hongjoong has been a fan of the brand for quite some time, so finding out that we are now working together is a dream come true!"

Hongjoong lowered his eyes and let his fingers flitter across the table in front of him. There went his opportunity to be all slick and cool. Or was he over-reacting? Again, Yunho was unreadable.

The host then quickly rounded off that segment of the discussion, and cut to an ATEEZ song break, in honour of the guests.

Confirming that the mics were indeed off and he wasn't about to cuss out the entire nation, Hongjoong turned to his 6'1'' headache and hissed:

"Let's keep this about ATEEZ, shall we?"

"Why so serious, bro? Don't you like ARNURI?"

That, he did. The problem was that it was no longer just ARNURI he liked. To borrow some fandom-speak, he had abandoned the 'casual fan' territory, and had found himself quite a few clothing items and accessories-deep, and with a bias.

And since he would rather have Yeosang feeding him sour candy than revealing that he liked ARNURI more than he probably should, any joke in that direction was like an arrow that he felt the desperate need to dodge.

"Yeah, of course I do. I mean, we are working with them right?"

"Riiiight. And you are wearing their jacket. That you literally do not let anyone touch."

"What? I like clothes."

"And you keep said jacket in a plastic bag from the dry cleaner's because suddenly you are Seonghwa two point oh."

"Is that not... normal?"

"Rich to ask for a person who spray paints shoes in the living room at three in the morning."

"Hey I ventilate."

"BY TURNING ON THE EXHAUST VENT IN THE KITCHEN?"

"Shh, Yunho, we good. We can discuss this later-"

"Oh no I like your discomfort shawty talk to me."

Hongjoong pinched the bridge of his nose. This kid with his surprise attacks. Before he could think of a way to get himself out of the hole he dug, the host was suddenly showing that they had thirty seconds before going live. So he settled for:

"We'll continue this conversation later."

"And I chose Seonghwa over you."

"Choosing violence... I swear to-"

"And we are back! I hope you, dear listeners, enjoyed the wonderful-"

You paused the podcast. So, your personal assistant was not kidding when she ran into your office, waving her phone side to side as though she was at a concert, saying that Kim Hongjoong knew a lot more about ARNURI than you assumed.

Really sometimes you thought you hired her not for her abilities as a PA, but because she made you feel a tiny bit more sane. But at the same time, you were one in the same - who was listening to the recorded radio broadcast right after she left your office, reduced to a fit of giggles, sitting in total solitude? You.

Quite the contrast to how you normally were - zoned out due to exhaustion, brutal because that was how your business worked, or totally unreachable because 'the vibe was right and you were in a creative flow state'.

But this was how you got that bread. And had taken ARNURI to new heights. You continuously sacrificed yourself for the art.

There had never been another option for you - ever since you were a kid there was only one thing you were interested in, and that was fashion. You were that one kid who shamelessly stole (and wore) her parents' and siblings' clothing, modifying it so that it looked more like you.

You had 're-designed' your school uniform which had nearly led to your suspension. To this day you were confident you had done the right thing remaking the outfit to being pitch black - it was not your fault that the school had no sense of taste and had chosen such a horrid shade of grey.

And aside from becoming the 'adopted child' of some goth clubs in the city, you had crashed fashion show after fashion show to just see how the legends did it. You were taken by the stark contrast between what was classically accepted and popular on the runways versus the enchanting amalgamation of Victorian era dress, New Romantic, punk and new wave.

You had sworn to yourself that if there was one thing you were going to do, it was be one of the designers to fuse the worlds together. So you gave all you had to this dream. You had completed fashion school, worked in Finland to immerse yourself in the nation's vibrant, borderline mainstream goth scene, and had participated in many art exhibitions and avante garde fashion shows to make yourself known.

This was your calling. Your everything. So when you finally managed to get your brand up and running, bringing your vision to South Korea, you were shamelessly promoting it as best you could. Sending samples, contacting influencers, knocking on all the doors until SOMEONE answered.

And that someone turned out to be a stylist at KQ Entertainment, working with a group called ATEEZ. After a few exchanges on Instagram, they had agreed to use a couple of items, and let the media do the promotional magic.

You were desperate, having not had much success in the country due to difficulty in finding early adopters of the brand, so you agreed.

Turned out it was a much better investment than you had initially thought. A few members had sported ARNURI wear for a fansign, and pictures from the event FLEW around the internet. Eventually, the clothing was discovered, and your site started getting more and more hits.

You assumed it was just a fluke, but that fluke turned into one of the members, who you learned to be Kim Hongjoong, starting to make regular appearances in ARNURI, especially when it was evident that he had the final say in what to wear - airport looks, more casual events... black-clad, supporting you more than he could imagine.

Inadvertently, he had turned into a motivation for you. He had given you the hope that you could reach the stars if you so desired, and so you began to build up.

Season after season, you worked tirelessly, and eventually broke into Seoul Fashion Week. Your daring showcase of your 'ANTITHESIS' collection had gathered a large audience, and soon enough, you had to step into the spotlight, and reveal your identity.

You could remember it as clear as day, 'She Sells Sanctuary' by The Cult roaring in the background as you stepped out, every bit ARNURI, an overnight neo-goth sensation.

As your brand got bigger and bigger, and you were now leading a business of nearly 100 people strong, you had to become colder and more distant. It was a sort of self-preservation, since fashion was not an industry where one could escape criticism and blatant slander, especially when your primary goal was to be yourself.

But that one idol. The one who had agreed to wear your brand, and then continued to do so voluntarily, Kim Hongjoong, still remained special to you. He was your quiet encouragement.

So when you heard from your marketing and communications team that they had scouted out an opportunity to work with ATEEZ, you gave them the green light almost instantly, and much to their surprise, participated in crafting out the perfect proposal.

And when you received an agreement and contracts in response, you needed to excuse yourself and locked yourself in your studio, letting yourself squeal. Just a bit. And then walked back out - she is beauty she is grace.

The first stage of the collaboration was going to be a nice and simple photoshoot. You said simple but you were running around the building like a headless chicken making sure everything was ready.

It was going to be for a new line, 'PHANTASMOS', an ode to phantasmagoria, horror theatre and the portrayal of all things fantastic, strange and ghoulish. And who would be a better group of models than ATEEZ?

As the day approached, Hongjoong was becoming considerably more nervous, and that was only exacerbated by the announcement that you personally would be attending the shoot.

He did not want to come across as a fool of some sort, wanted to be a serious leader, really leave the impression that he meant business. To him, you were elegance itself, a tranquil beauty in black, and he wanted to match that to the best of his ability.

Which was exactly why he had turned his and Seonghwa's dorm into a fabric skip, with shirts, trousers, t-shirts... all of his prized possessions were strewn around the perimeter and occupied nearly every inch of the floor. Hell, even his customised Doc Martens were lying miserably on his bed.

Just as he was contemplating between a blazer with lines of safety pins as decal on the lapels or a classic leather jacket with more zippers than ways his children could annoy him, Seonghwa returned from his trip to the LEGO store.

Hongjoong had never seen every single stage of grief flash across a person's face in one second. But there it was. He gave the eldest member a sheepish grin, subconsciously cowering away closer to the windows - as far away from the evidently not too pleased Seonghwa.

"Kim. Hong. Joong. What kind of fuckery is this?"

"Oh. OH! Amy Winehouse! Yes, big fan, that's uh, that's Me & Mr. Jones right?"

"I will use you as a broom stick Joong."

"Look I just got carried-"

"HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU? PLEASE LET ME KEEP AT LEAST SOME OF MY NERVE CELLS!"

"What's happening- oh Joongie is in trouble~" Mingi poked his head in through the door, making it look as though it was the Teletubbies sun floating above Seonghwa's shoulder.

Hongjoong really wished he could laugh. He really did. But he was afraid he was about to be forced to eat the starship that his roommate bought.

So much for trying to be 'chic' and impressing you. Now he had the goal of making it to the shoot in one piece.

"Mingi. Exit. Now." Seonghwa commanded, jaw clenched, which made the younger member quite literally bolt, slamming the door so hard that the items that were hanging on the stuck-on hooks slid off and fell behind Seonghwa.

There was a mass meeting audible right outside of the room, and a very distinct seagull laugh penetrated the walls. Hongjoong cursed his bad timing. Had he only started early, maybe he would have had time to shove at least some of the items under the bunk so it didn't look too bad.

"Right. You know what. I am zen. I am the calmest of the calm. You take care of others, I take care of you. Right? Now. Wait, you know what I need to just-"

Seonghwa picked up a large pillow off one of the beds, eyed it, looked at Hongjoong once more, and then PUNCHED it with blinding rage, sending it flying right back into the bed.

"Okay now I am fine. Care to explain when you were planning to sort this shit out?"

There was another wave of mumbles outside, to which Seonghwa responded by making the door fly open and shouting out "we are having a VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION."

Before closing the door entirely, a quiet comment from Yeosang could be overheard: "they're getting divorced in there," leading to some giggles, and pitter-patter of footsteps away from the door. They probably just chose a slightly different location to camp and snoop.

Hongjoong decided to sink into one of the clothes piles, motioning for Seonghwa to take a seat next to him. He was in a dilemma, unsure of what sort of explanation would be the most effective for Seonghwa. So he just settled for the truth.

"You know the shoot that we are going to do?" he began, rubbing the back of his neck.

"Yes, I do. What, is the aesthetic landfill-chic?" Seonghwa motioned at the explosion over the room.

"No, not at all! Don't even. You have seen the clothing, right?"

"Of course, I wore ARNURI before. Must say, very flattering. And fashionable. That one overcoat made me feel like a vampire prince."

Hongjoong raised an eyebrow, but chose not to comment on that. Seonghwa was Seonghwa, he had his own agenda and his own interpretations.

"Right, so... well, you know I have a lot of ARNURI stuff? It's not just that... I have um... sort of become a... fan? Of the designer? L/N Y/N? She is just... her vision... her style is just... yeah she is great."

"Oh my gosh my boy Kim Hongjoong actually wants to meet someone outside of ATEEZ, this is legendary, I should post this on Universe."

"What in the- hey I meet people! And don't you dare"

"When, mister 'I don't really have many friends' and literally getting jealous over me talking to Minho from Stray Kids?"

"Hey, being a best friend is a responsibility, and you are my best friend!"

"Oh wait... I get it... I don't think you are aiming for friendship here... isn't that right?" a grin started spreading over Seonghwa's face as he looked like he discovered a new planet.

"I am just a fan of hers! Don't twist this!"

"Sure... okay now I get... this," he gave a judgmental side eye to the pile of sweaters that had made their home right by his display cabinet. "You are like a middle schooler before a first date, I swear. This is definitely because she's going to be there, right?"

"You know what? Yes, yes it is. And I might not have had my growth spurt yet but I am not a middle schooler." Hongjoong said, standing up as straight as possible, putting his hands on his hips.

"That's exactly what an angsty middle schooler would say." Seonghwa looked him up and down, stifling a laugh.

"You are on a power trip aren't you?"

"Hell yeah I am, and I will be for the entire shoot and beyond."

"Park Seonghwa why you do this to ME?"

"If you don't want the others to get the details I have an offer."

This made Hongjoong stop on his tracks and retract his 'leader card'. He did not want to lose face in front of the 'teezer crew entirely, so keeping this information in confidence was enticing.

"Yes?"

"First off, clean your shit. And second, I get that spot on the dresser for the Imperial All Terrain Armoured Transport model I've been hunting down."

"First, deal. Second, say that one more fucking time dude I dare you."

"IMPERIAL ALL TERRAIN ARMOURED TRANSPORT, ALSO KNOWN AS THE AT-AT WALKER, IS A FOUR-LEGGED TRANSPORT AND COMBAT VEHICLE USED BY THE IMPERIAL GROUND FO-"

"Did you legit memorise Wikipedia or something?"

"May the force be with you, bitch. Now you clean, I will go chill outside so I don't have an aneurysm because of how you do it. And by the way, I'd pick the leather jacket if I were you. Classic, timeless and looks good."

"Thank you man, you are the best."

"I know, now impress me with how you can make this room spotless."

And with that, Seonghwa left Hongjoong alone in the room. From what he could hear, there was a circus outside, with the other members having gathered around, interrogating about what had just unfolded. but Seonghwa was keeping his word, for now at least. He knew that he did not have to try too hard, since Hongjoong would probably expose himself as soon as he were to see you anyways.

And Seonghwa was more than right. The next day, when ATEEZ arrived to the studio, Hongjoong was very jittery. Alert to any and all people and sounds, he was looking around as if he was expecting someone - well he definitely was. As soon as they stepped into the ARNURI office, he was convinced that you could be around any corner.

The other members were beginning to catch on that this hyung was acting odd, to the point where Yeosang commented on Hongjoong looking like he was playing Alien Isolation in real life. The reference flew right over the leader's head, but he tried his best to tone his Pink Panther-style snooping down.

And instead focus on the many photos that decorated the walls of your house of fashion. Memories of particularly memorable parts of a show, awards, red carpet events... club nights, themed evenings, collaborations... this was your life. Right there, immortalised in tasteful monochrome.

The boys were in awe of the refined interior - strictly monochromatic, any accents in the otherwise white rooms and corridors were done using the colour black. Although it was not a rule by any means (in fact, you encouraged being as daring as one wanted), the majority of ARNURI employees were clad in the colour, fitting right into the brand and the aesthetics.

They were led up a couple of flights of stairs, and as they were making their way down one corridor, Hongjoong began to catch snippets of lively conversation, the occasional staff gliding a clothing rack past them or across the hallway, and... shouts of 'yes ma'am'?

Initially he was confused, but as they were getting closer to the photo studio, it clicked in his head: you were in there. Who else could be referred to as ma'am?

"Hey, Hongjoong, I think we are -actually- meant to... walk in the hall to do the shoot." Jongho walked up behind the leader, fake whispering, causing a round of chuckles from the other members. The only member who was not as smiley (except Hongjoong himself, that is) was Seonghwa, and it was because Hongjoong not so little infatuation was old news to him, and the room had been cleaned to a very satisfying level, much to his surprise.

"Woah no way, Jongho, that's insane. I was sure that this was a new technique or something..." Yunho piped in, glancing at Hongjoong, lips curling up.

He had a couple of sneaking suspicions about Hongjoong's behaviour whenever ARNURI, or more specifically the founder and lead designer, were mentioned or he was given the chance to gush about it.

The radio appearance was the closest to a confirmation that he could get - Hongjoong getting shy over being a big fan... what a sight to see. But seeing the post-discussion silent conversations between the two eldest members, and some signal exchanges while they were driving up to the venue really sealed the deal. There was something really fun going on with Hongjoong, and Yunho needed the deets.

For research purposes. And who was he to pass up on a ship in the making?

Finally, their manager, after finishing up a conversation with some of the relationship management staff from ARNURI, who had greeted them, decided to speed up the process and usher the kids in.

To soothe his nerves, Hongjoong picked at a bracelet he had selected for completing his 'first meeting and first impression' look. He had worn it many times over, and had even taken it with him on tour before, so it was a little ball of positive energy for him.

But nothing could prepare or prevent the Error that Hongjoong.exe experienced as he finally saw you in your element.

There was something spellbinding about the way you looked. Head to toe in your own creations, you were wearing an onyx-hued Victorian era inspired suit, matched with military boots that had immaculate metal detailing.

He could not stop staring, even if it could be perceived as rude, or too forward. There you were.

"Oh, guys, man down, man down, our captain's overboard~" Wooyoung taunted, shouldering San and Yeosang who were on either side of him.

It really was a sight to behold. Hongjoong, entirely captivated as you stood in the middle of the photo studio, guiding the entire room like a conductor would lead an orchestra.

He ignored the youngers' attempts to get his attention, much to their utter disbelief and resulting giddiness. If there was a definition of starstruck. This was it.

You appeared to have a pulse on EVERYTHING, down to the tiniest details, pointing out that there was a very specific prop missing, adjusting accessories, exchanging one scarf for another. It was the most organised chaos that Hongjoong had ever seen, and he was amazed at how you could keep it under control.

The star he had deemed unreachable was right there. Right in front of him.

"Joongie, I think you can leave your drooling until after the shoot. You don't want your makeup ruined."

"Oh Hwa is this how it is?" he looked at his friend in disbelief.

"I think you exposed yourself enough, no?"

"Ew, Hongjoong come on don't traumatise your wife." Wooyoung was not giving up on his mission to annoy Hongjoong into early retirement.

"GUYS please don't embarrass me-"

"Oh so you admit it?" San questioned, smirking like the devil.

"Admit what?"

"That you are doing some shady shit."

"Where did this even come from, San."

"So the studio then, no wonder you come back from there at like four in the morning."

"You guys are making me lose brain cells that I need to get instructions from the photographer." Yeosang deadpanned, nodding towards the set.

"I don't even want to begin imagining what sort of things you are thinking about, but I can assure you I will annihilate you if you start kindergarten season here." Hongjoong threatened but it fell short as Mingi grinned and joined in the ambush:

"Say 'aye' if you think this minion is invested into this shoot." the way he said it almost sounded like an innuendo, making Hongjoong scowl.

The most deafening collection of 'ayes' resounded around Hongjoong, and caused you to shift your focus to the newly arrived group. He noticed your expression soften, shoulders roll a little further back as you ambled towards them, the thuds of your boots setting his heart's pace.

"Ah good morning to you all! It is such a pleasure to be working with you. Did I make you wait for long?"

"Not at all, the pleasure is all ours." Hongjoong forced out, pushing the snickering members out of his sphere of attention.

"Great, well it is wonderful to finally meet you, I am L/N Y/N, the mad scientist behind ARNURI!"

"Very much the same here, Miss-"

"We'll be working closely enough to be informal, no?" you interjected before Hongjoong could call you by your last name.

Your allure was more powerful than he had hypothesised, to the point where some of the other members, more specifically San and Seonghwa, could not look away from you either - it seemed that you had the energy for attracting demons. The way you carried yourself, poised and courteous, demanded nothing less than respect.

At the same time, there was nothing demure about you. If anything, you resembled a cat that was ready to pounce any moment. As though there was a coil within you, permanently tense and even slightly dangerous. But that was thrilling.

Hongjoong cleared his throat, and corrected himself, "Yes, of course, sorry, Y/N. Shall we do the official greeting or-"

"Let's keep things personal for now, and once my lovely colleagues are done with the final checks, we can get started with eight makes one team." you winked, and suggested, quoting the greeting.

It was beyond entertaining for Wooyoung to see just how putty-like Hongjoong had become in your presence. He was just playing by your rules at this point, without questioning them. But it was understandable, who wouldn't get weak when their type was right in front of them and said 'let's keep things personal'?

"Well then let me be proper, I am San!" whilst you were exchanging words with Hongjoong, the member had time to slip from where he originally stood, and was now almost right in front of you, beaming.

Hongjoong chortled, but at the same time wanted to kick his fellow member in the shins because of the interception. What was his game here exactly?

Ever so politely, you greeted San back, not giving away that you were interested in continuing your chat with Hongjoong. It was second nature to you to blend one interaction into another without revealing any preferences - otherwise you would have a lot more enemies in the industry.

Then you simply proceeded to greet each ATEEZ member separately, your attention shifting entirely each time. You had a way of making people feel like, for even if just a moment, they were your universe.

It came from your tendency of seeing people both as perfect canvases, and as living works of art. You enjoyed the challenge that working off a person gave you, and this was mainly why you wanted to give each ATEEZ member a final once over - to see whether what you had planned was even right.

Each member gave you a unique impression, ranging from mischievous to shy to strictly professional. Seeing as you had never actively followed their activities, aside from their leader's, you were fascinated by the dynamic they were displaying, taking note for who you wanted to see in the camera together, and maybe even matching in some accessories.

Hongjoong was nearly holding his breath as he saw you reading ATEEZ like an open book. You were scanning everyone in the way he had seen renowned critics do while inspecting models on the runway. A Mona Lisa smile, and conclusions no one would know except yourself.

When it was finally his turn, he said his name as brightly as possible, faltering only towards the end as your eyes locked. He swore his heart nearly jumped out of his chest. It did not last long though, as you glanced down, and appeared to be incredibly happy because of something you spotted.

San was taking a particular interest in this silent mental tango, intently following your every move, while Wooyoung cupped his hand around his friend's ear and whispered.

"The bracelet."

"Ah, yes, it's uhm, should I say yours?"

"I guess so! It is from the limited edition MEDUSA collection. It suits you well. And the condition is impeccable though it's been what, a couple of years?"

"It's very precious to me, I try to take good care of it."

Seonghwa pursed his lips, the chaos of their dorm room clouding his vision. He imagined that you probably would go ballistic if you were to ever see clothing being treated in that way. Though Hongjoong did have separate storage for accessories and jewelry - that much was true.

"That means a lot. Thank you-" you turned as someone called out for you, alerting that everything was ready to go, "it's time, gentlemen, let's get this party started!"

As you clasped your hands together and moved away to join the lead photographer, allowing stylists to guide the group away and begin working their magic, San peered at Hongjoong once more.

When he made sure everyone else was out of earshot, he placed a hand on the captain's shoulder, and muttered:

"If you don't ask her out, I will. No hierarchy on this battle field."

[jiraisupportgroup]

Hii I'm new to jirai kei n recently I joined a group where there's a lot o jirai / landmine ppl! I was asking some questions abt how to go for the fashion part of the subculture and one of my main questions was "is there any thrift store I can go to? Can I customize some clothing to make it look jirai?" And what I got as an answer was "No. Jirai ppl only use branded clothing, you can buy it second hand but you cannot customize in any way".

Tbh I'm not in a good place economically rn and I don't have a job either, so I'm not sure what I should do. Importing clothing costs 6 times more cause of where I live.

Is it really a rule that jirai / landmine can only wear branded clothes? (Liz liza, honey wardrobe, dear my love, etc)

I know I fit in the jirai lifestyle but I wanted to fit in the fashion too T--T

Thank you for your time♡♡ asking anon cause it's for me and a frien ^^"

I would once again like to preface this (as I preface all things) with the fact that I could entirely be talking out of my ass - this is just my opinion - and I am not a spokesperson for Jirai Kei or other mentioned subcultures / fashion styles as a whole.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that but also I will caveat that with the fact that I spent most of my teenage years in menhera / goth / emo / grunge spaces and those are very DIY-heavy subcultures. I'm also super relaxed about how people choose to label themselves (to the point where I barely claim to be in any subculture because I just don't want to bother with labels so I'm probably not the best person to ask haha~)

To me personally, this feels like an argument that someone coming from Lolita would make? I kind of see a link here in the sense that the two main reasons I think people say these things about Lolita are because it is really hard to make Lolita clothing and buying lolita knock-offs is generally bad for a whole slew of reasons. Similar arguments for both subcultures I think.

Girly kei / dark girly clothing can be really hard to make or DIY. I think it is certainly very possible to do, but it might take some trial and error. Mostly because being a bit over the top is kind of the aesthetic; there are a lot of ruffles and bows and lace and ribbons and buttons and cute little accessories and cut-outs and the neckline is typically very specific with decorated collars. At its base, it is just a blouse, but it's got a LOT of aspects that go into it, and if it's "too basic" then you're not really hitting that girly kei style. The skirts too (I personally think the skirts would be a little easier to DIY but I also have experience sewing with lace / grommets & making corset ribbon designs which is mostly what stands out from them to me?) You also run into a lot of the actual hardware being specific with hearts being a really common theme for belt loops or buttons, and decorated suspenders.

I think it would be difficult to DIY girly kei or dark girly pieces but it's certainly doable. One issue is that depending on where you're getting the materials for that DIY, it might be about the same cost (or more) as just buying a blouse (although this depends on shipping cost).

The other aspect of it is the argument against fast fashion which is a little more nuanced in Jirai Kei but I see where they're coming from? I mean, to be frank, ryousangata is literally "massed produced" fashion (& to be fair the aesthetics that are labeled as “ryousangata” have varied a lot over the years - it’s not just frilly blouses & stuff that’s just kind of what it happens to be right now). It's pretty much just fast fashion. MA*RS, Liz Lisa, & DearMyLove from what I can tell are mostly produced in Japan, although they do source materials from China, like most companies do (not automatically or necessarily a bad thing imo - but I will spare you that side rant bc it’s kind of not related). I couldn't find a lot of information about their production practices? So I'm unsure about worker environments for them? Generally, the big-name brands are going to be more ethically sourced & produced than random AliExpress sellers but by how much is kind of questionable (or at least I could not find a lot of information about the production processes so I'm not sure by how much - if anyone has additional information on this I would love love love to hear).

Now am I saying "Go buy a bunch of fast fashion off of AliExpress because it's cheaper and no one cares"? No. (It's also honestly not much cheaper.) But the reality is that it generally is fast fashion, so it's a weird balancing game. I think one of the main reasons people say "only buy Liz Lisa / MA*RS / DearMyLove" is because they want to avoid fast fashion as much as possible while participating in a fashion with a LOT of fast fashion sellers, and since it can be difficult to find production information they go for the big names because they're easier to trust in that aspect. (I also have fallen into this trap & have sworn my life to DearMyLove because they're the only big-name brand that is even slightly 6-foot-tall-bitch friendly T-T)

All of that being said, if you want to attach some bows and lace to a frilly blouse and call it girly kei I am absolutely not going to stop you (or honestly even judge you, but again that's just me). The shipping costs are part of the reason why I say the clothes are secondary to the jirai kei subculture especially as a foreigner because once you consider that the clothing is significantly more expensive and difficult to obtain in foreign circles it becomes directly contradictory to some of the reasons why those same clothes are so popular in the Japanese subculture: I don't think the cultural context of the fashion translates over to foreign markets (economically or socially, but I'll spare you that entire rant lol).

ALSO! Jirai Kei Subcul is awesome and has a much more obtainable aesthetic for foreign markets. It leans more into punk and you can use a lot of different pieces for it that are more easily obtainable, so I highly recommend looking into it. It might be a good medium for being able to feel fully like you belong, but not breaking the bank for an outfit.

[sunnysam-my]

Dark Academia is a subculture and it isn't problematic, just misunderstood.

I am so tired of people that aren't a part of this community shitting on dark academia literally any time it gains popularity again, claiming that it's pretentious, elitist and racist. It's not problematic, at least not in a way most people criticise it for.

What all of those people don't seems to understand is that there's the dark academia aesthetic and there is the dark academia the subculture. Even when they do understand they still put people who are only interested in the fashion and overall vibe together with people who are dark academia.

Why is dark academia a subculture?

First let's start with what even subculture is?

It's a cultural group within a larger culture, often sharing a collection of values, beliefs, rituals and traditions. Despite what many believes, it doesn't have to have any connection to music, like Star Trek and Star Wars fans, but there's no need for having a shared fandom at all, like the gays, bikers and youth.

Participation in the dark academia subculture is not limited to following a specific set of fashion. It suggest preferred activities, hobbies, philosophies and lifestyles. The focus is on reading and expanding one’s horizons, on becaming the best version of oneself no matter the cost, especially by engaging in classical literature, history, foreign languages, mythology, art and philosophy. On top of that DA is actually connected to certain music (classical and neoclassical) and fandoms.

The (incorrect) criticisms:

1. One of the more common criticisms of dark academia is that of its superficiality and pretentiousness – that it is more a fetishisation of intellectual life than real intellectual life. "Instead of being a reading society, it's a Dead Poets Society cosplay." This is just simply untrue. Yes, there are people who are purely here for the aesthetic and vibes, but they aren't part of the subculture. People who are genuinely part of this community do read all those books, write poetry, journal e.t.c regularly and try to be well educated.

2. The money issue. Now this is where it gets funny. Dark academia is often called classist and racist because of it's "idealised vision of the academic lifestyle in which the money is simply there". Obviously in places where higher education is strictly financially driven studying is a bitch. Nowadays there are even a lot of doctors who are homeless, especially in US. But DA is mainly a European thing, and in a lot of EU countries studying isn't that expensive, it's not cheap either (books costs a lot and not working doesn't help), but you don't need to pay for a good education, you need to study hard and compete with others to get good education.

This however is not a dark academia problem. It's a harsh reality. One that we need to fight with. Getting higher education shouldn't make you get into a debt. It shouldn't make you sacrifice social life for studying all your life only to end on the streets.

3. "Eurocentric obsession". This is so dumb I don't even know to say. How can you possibly call people, mostly from Europe, problematic for being fascinated by Europe's history, it's past culture, Greek mythology, mostly European philosophers (but American too), Latin that is still fucking taught at many schools here, etc. All of things are taught in schools here. There is nothing wrong with you being obsessed with Asian royalty and making it part of your personality, but God forbid, you, a white person, are obsessed with the best parts of your history and culture 🙄.

4. Another criticism of dark academia is that it encourages unhealthy behaviour, both physically (caffeine overconsumption, smoking, drugs) and mentally (perfectionist, constant competition). The pursuit of perfection comes at a price. The entire idea of DA is to study as hard as possible so you can reach enlighten. It's workaholism, except it's school, not work. Now this is why I think dark academia isn't problematic in a way people think, but is misunderstood.

A melancholic comforting dream

It's easy to understand why people think DA is unhealthy or fake. Nights spent studying, writing essays for hours on end, drowning in books and writing excessive notes. For many this sounds like a nightmare, but dark academia romanticise it. It see it as the true joy of university life. At the same time there's taking joy in reflecting on what is irretrievably lost, pessimistic and melancholic.

In reality most people in this community are overworked neurodivergent, usually twice exceptional, youth who struggles mentally. So many people are twice exceptional and it's very obvious. The hyperfixetions, the love for linguistics and humanities, the hate of math.

For many Dark Academia is a coping method.

Staples of dark academia fiction explore intellectualism, classic literature and self-discovery, but also the struggle of fighting for your identity, the way humans are shaped by their trauma, the way they destroy themselves to be better. The word "dark" in Dark Academia is primarily about those dark sides of the human nature, not just the dark colours of the DA aesthetic.

If you think that Dead Poets Society romanticised suicide or Kill Your Darlings academicly motivated drug use then you're the crazy one here. People loved those movies, because of how relatable they were, even the suffering.

Studying is a bitch. If you make it fun then you are less depressed about the fact that you don't have the choice to not study all night. It's not just nostalgia for what you haven't experienced, but what you have to endure all your youth. Some people are forced to study to be the very best and sacrifice their (social) lives, because the system is so broken, but if you can make it into your own, comforting, time - it's better. Sure, the movies and books have lots of harmful copying mechanism, but irl (or in this case online) this community encourages healthy methods like reading, making art, journaling, acting etc.

I do think there's a lot of to talk about when it comes to, for example, sexism, and I do agree DA needs more diversity than just white cis man, but like I said, it's not problematic in a way most people criticise it for.

[sc3n3kitt3h]

something ive been seeing a lot recently is people REALLY cracking down on what is and is not emo or whatever. Like, you gotta adhere 2 one, super specific aesthetic, with specific kinds of clothes and thats it. or else youre not doing it right?? you gotta do what the emos in the 2000s were doing EXACTLY. which is so not true and not the point at all!!!! same thing with categorizing emo and scenester outfits. u can only be one or the other and u cant be both. no overlap allowed. if theres overlap then ur probably scene.

It really bugs me 4 a lot of reasons!!! first of all, the emos from "back in the day" or whatever were 4 the most part pretty against labels a lot of the time. they called themselves emo but lost of times they called themselves/eachother "goths" and "scene kids" and whatever else!!! they didnt restrict themselves 2 one specific box. or at least a big portion of them didnt. lots of ppl didnt call themselves anything at all. all these subcultures r obviously distinct and different but the terms and whatnot were used pretty interchangably (or so ive seen) lots of times!!!!

It also doesnt give subcultures and styles a chance 2 grow or evolve!!! things dont HAVE 2 be how they were 15 years ago. no hate 2 the ppl who DO try and replicate those styles, but things can change!!!

Idk. im not that good at explaining this sort of thing. but alternative subcultures are made by and 4 social rejects and outcasts and weirdos. and now we're trying 2 force all these arbitrary boxes on everyone. and its stupid. sincerely, someone who got told by a pink wolf cut tiktok egirl that i wasnt "really emo" and i was actually a scene kid since i was wearing like 3 kandi singles and "didnt dress emo every day" in the hallway of my school.