#anti targaryen stans

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

Targ stans who go on and on about "The blood of Old Valyria" and "filthy Andal blood and traditions" always manage to baffle me when they start talking about religion in Westeros.

Like, High Valyrians with their Valyrian Gods partaked in human sacrifice, human experiments, unimaginable types of torture, slavery, eugenics, all types of familial incest and were basically fantasy nazis in their society built upon the enslavement and forced hard labor of the races they saw as "lesser" but clearly, the evilest religion is the one where people pray to the humanoid aspects of their God and read their bejeweled little book.

[fvckinaphrodite]

Colonizers when they colonilized non-white people in the past:

"It's the will of God" (I dream about it)

"God makes me do it" (My prophetic dream makes me do it)

"We're children of God, and He has commanded us to spread our white supremacy agenda" (We're Valyrians and with our dragons we will conquer *ehem* defend these kingdoms)

"It's our destiny" (It's our destiny)

"We're destined to save these barbarians" (We're destined to save these non-valyrian people)

"We are the heroes, the saviors who defend humanity from the brutalism of the East in the name of Jesus Christ" (We're the heroes, the saviors who defend humanity from the threat far North in the name of our Valyrians' colonialism and prophetic dreams and dragons and stuff)

Yea no shit Sherlock definitely not sound like colonizers at all

[the-daily-dreamer]

Alicent sucks your theme sucks and you're probably a rosary bead counting tradwife

Chomp chomp

[earthyleo]

Dear targ stans please keep House Stark out of your rant posts if you're trying to use them as an comparision to say things like "ha see, the starks also colonized and killed innocent people like the Children of the Forest so that makes them awful and house targaryen is now good" - let me stop you right the fuck there, first of all, there is ZERO evidence that the Starks especifically went out hunting and kiling the Children of the Forest, the books say the FIRST MEN and the Children were in a conflict that lasted thousands of years, Starks aren't the only house of first men origin so this line could not even be about them, and this conflict ended with a peace treaty and after that, the ones resposible for the g*nocide of the Children of the forest were the Andals who came from Essos. Actually, if you search about House Stark's relations to the Children, it says more about them joining forces than being rivals.

About House Stark conquering the North being just as brutal as Aegon's Conquest: No, not the same situation at all. Aegon conquered Westeros using weapons of mass destruction (the dragons) that no one else had and were defenseless agaisnt, it was unfair, like a bully picking on the smaller kids because he knows they naturally cant defend themselves agasint him. The Stark kings conquered the North with armies, politics and strategies, they were no different from the other kings, they won the North in fair battle and the destruction they caused was almost none considering the North needs to preserve every piece of land and all the people they have because of the harsh winters.

Ok? So now please stop saying the Starks are colonizers or that they commited g*nocide, ya'll are embarassing yourselves saying stupid stuff like this.

[sunnysideaeggs]

Why not blame targaryen blood for aegon being rapist maegor daemon and many more were rapists and rape apologists 🤔

Hey bestie! The post I reblogged was to compare both Aegon’s parents, and how, realistically, Alicent wouldn’t be the one inducing him to rape servant girls left and right, she’s not a Cersei, she doesn’t excuse all her children’s actions, she does her best to raise them in her (very repressive) set of values and rape ofc doesn’t include that.

However, Viserys is a rapist, most importantly, he raped Aegon’s mother for years, starting when she was 15, and most probably Aegon saw some remnants of that abuse. If anything, it’s Viserys the parent that influenced rape tendencies (his eldest daughter is also a rapist, and she wasn’t raised by Alicent).

So if anyone calls Aegon a rapist, do it pragmatically. It was Viserys who realistically influenced that behavior. It doesn’t excuse the action (which to me isn’t canon as it has no basis on the og material and was merely added for shock value) but certainly calls out what kind of father was (or was not) y’all’s peaceful king.

I don’t blame Targaryen blood for the Targaryens being shit, I blame the Targaryen upbringing and the supremacy they practice. Some Targs who weren’t raised by Targs (Jon Snow) don’t show the shitty mindset most Targs do. The blood of his deadbeat rapist dad is there, but because of his upbringing he grew up to be a hero.

[astradrifting]

Hi! Were there any perspectives in the ASOIAF fandom that made your eyes roll? If there are, what made you say so? Thanks!

[mostly written in 2021, and posted very late. Sorry nonny!]

woof, this could open up a can of worms. I'm almost afraid this is a bait ask but I'm also very willing to run my mouth online about ASOIAF, and I love making fun of dumb theories, so let’s go!

Every time someone says that Jon and Dny are the song of ice and fire, my soul dies a little. Enough said.

I also hate the idea that parallels between ASOIAF history and the events of the books don’t matter. Not to state the obvious, but Westerosi history isn’t real. No part of it actually happened organically, GRRM has manufactured all of it, so everything must have been written with a purpose. I don’t buy that it’s just all world-building, because if parallels are obvious to us, they must be a thousand times more so for the man actually writing it all, and the army of editors who are probably helping him keep it straight.

There is absolutely no way that anything about Jonnel ‘One-Eye’ is a coincidence. Half-brother to Rickon Stark is obvious enough, but then we have his mother. Lynara sounds very similar to Lyanna (side note: a jonsa baby named Lynara would be adorable), but the real link is that she was born a Stark - all of the women on the family tree are listed under their maiden names. Her relation to her husband Cregan isn’t specified; it would have been so easy to have her be from another random house, or even a Karstark, yet what George wanted to convey is that Jonnel has a Stark mother, as well as a Stark father who happened to be heavily involved with the Targaryens.

Another fun thing linking Jonnel to Jon! Jon’s first relationship was with a red headed girl, who claimed that they were married because he’d stolen her. In the same conversation where she’s called half fish…

“You know nothing, Jon Snow. I’m half a fish, I’ll have you know.”

“Half fish, half goat, half horse…there’s too many halves to you, Ygritte.”

(ASOS, Jon V)

this conversation is already jonsa gospel as foreshadowing because of “half-fish”, but the horse part was always a little strange to me. As far as I remember, they didn’t have a prior conversation about her loving horses or riding particularly well, so that was seemingly out of left-field.

Well Jonnel’s second wife was a Ryswell - their sigil is a black horse’s head with a red mane.

pictured: the jonsa agenda winning again

The idea that Stannis will take Winterfell isn’t as personally annoying to me, all these dudebros have very detailed, tactics-based reasons to believe he’ll win I’m sure (something about a nightlamp?), but I just think it doesn’t do anything for the narrative, nor does it make sense with either his arc or Jon and Sansa’s.

Winning Winterfell will put Stannis in a position of strength, give him a base of operations in the North that’s not on loan from the Night’s Watch, and would probably lead to most of the Northern houses swearing allegiance to him, as Manderly has already promised to do. Why would a man in that position ever choose to burn his daughter, his only heir, alive? That is literally one of the few guaranteed book plots we have, so IMO speculation about Stannis all needs to work backwards from this end point; it’s ugly and horrible, and I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach reading it, but it’s the only ending to his arc that makes sense.

Kinslaying reoccurs time and time again in Stannis’ arc. Kinslaying for his own personal benefit, no less. In his first appearance in ACOK, he listens to Selyse suggest that he kill Renly, then stands by whilst Melisandre kills Maester Cressen, his surrogate father. Cressen raised him and loved him like a son; yet if he had killed Melisandre instead, Stannis would have lost the power she wields for his benefit, the main reason he has a chance at the throne. Later in the book, he implicitly allows his brother to be murdered so that he could gain the Stormlords that had rallied to Renly instead of him (anyone trying to argue that the shadow wasn’t technically Stannis so technically it wasn’t kinslaying will be put in the naughty corner for excessive pedantry). In ASOS, he’s willing to sacrifice his nephew, an innocent 12 year old under his guardianship. He says it’s for the realm, for duty, but really it’s for his destiny. What is the life of a bastard boy against a kingdom so close to his grasp?

It’s escalation. Each time so far he’s had a layer of deniability, but he’s not going to have that in the end. Ordering Shireen’s death himself, murdering his daughter in some desperate bid to secure victory over the Boltons, will be the final step off the cliff. Maybe he’ll have some military victories before that, smarter people than me have no doubt discussed the parallels to the Greek myth of Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia, but I have no doubt Stannis’ story is headed only towards tragedy.

….Turns out that I do have a lot of feelings about Stannis. But to get back to my original point, Jon and Sansa taking Winterfell back together, travelling through the North doing the work and proving themselves as worthy rulers, makes a lot more sense for their future roles in the story than Stannis winning it all for them. It’s also much more affecting and thematically resonant, so I refuse to believe D&D entirely made up that storyline.

I also inevitably end up rolling my eyes whenever I'm bored enough to go onto r/asoiaf, there's always a bad take right on the front page. One that annoyed me enough to go into @istumpysk’s inbox and kickstart my jonsa blogging was one asking what the point of R+L=J even is, because it never amounted to anything and just muddled up J/D being “the song of ice and fire”.

While it gets so close to the point that it’s funny, there’s no way the “song” is going to boil down to a relationship, let alone JD. I would almost buy Jon and Dænerys being the song of ice and fire if Jon actually were just Ned’s bastard, all ‘ice’. Hell, if he really wanted to make a relationship the song of ice and fire, he could have cut out the middleman and made Jon a trueborn Stark from the start - make them starcrossed lovers from warring families, truly ice and truly fire. Utterly boring, but thematically coherent at least. A major point of Jon’s character is that he is both - and something a lot messier than that besides, as a bastard.

It's not all bad on r/asoiaf though, when I went back to look for that post I saw another about how the Titan of Braavos is a Pacific Rim-style mech that will come to life to fight any dragons coming to the city, a theory that I will be championing from this moment henceforth.

Wait, nevermind, in that same thread someone said that Jaehaerys is the sexiest Targ name, so r/asoiaf is immediately cancelled again. That's another fandom perspective that makes me roll my eyes, the idea that Jaehaerys is in any way an acceptable name, especially as Jon's ‘secret’ name.

This 👏 is 👏 Targaryen 👏 propaganda 👏

Just look at it!! How do you even pronounce that? The hill I will most definitely die on is that this name is ugly.

[president-and-godemperor-forlife]

Kit agreeing with Dany’s death and the Twitter Targ Stans losing it HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[b0tis]

I had a response to an anonymous message readied in my drafts but Tumblr has decided to fucking obliterate it so here goes nothing;

Basically I expressed my disappointment with the way they handled Rhea. Then I received a reply that stated that they made Daemon kill her, as opposed to her death in the book, because HBO dislikes the Targaryens (since they're an incestuous dynasty) and is scared that if they made them look more sympathetic, "people would come for them". Anon also mentioned something about Daemon being supposed to be portrayed as morally gray. And I uhhhh disagree. So here is, more or less, my response to all that.

I was not a part of the GOT fandom during Dany's character assassination but I dare assume HBO does not give a crap about the values of House Targaryen and whether the content of their shows is moral or not. If they minded giving incestuous relationships a platform, I doubt GOT would have seen a light of day at all. Streaming platforms don't tend to care about whether viewers will come for their heads or not. And if the audience finds certain characters likeable, they'll stick around to see more of them on the screen = more money for HBO.

That being said, I don't see the way they decided to handle the scene as some part of anti-Targaryen agenda. No, the answer is apparently far simpler: the man responsible for writing for this week's episode seems to be downright fucking goofy in his inability to comprehend the reading material he's being presented with.

I dreaded the way they were going to solve this [scene] not because I refused to believe he'd be willing to kill his wife but because this solution seems just. unnecessary and unnecessarily stupid. Did they add that in to make us believe he all of the sudden took a turn and decided to end Rhea to be able to marry Rhaenyra? For someone who marries her against many odds later on anyway... that seems like a weak argument. Idk, the scene just seemes disjointed and like a waste of time (and Rhea's character) to me.

And let's be clear, I do not care for Daemon being shown as likeable! He is anything but, most of the time! And when he does have his likeable moments, most can't help but wonder if they're without underlying intentions. So this is not to whine about Daemon being villainised, I wouldn't even readily agree on him being morally gray! No, it's just that we did not need to see him in his ratty lil cloak, spitefully bashing Rhea's head in with a rock to realise that the man is vile. We have already seen him doing vile things and there are many more to come. The scene simply felt childishly edgy to me. And on one hand I'm glad we even got to see Lady Royce and witness her taking absolutely none of Targaryen's nonsense, throwing facts left, right and centre, but ehhhhh at what cost.

*And before anyone mentions it, I know their marriage was fucking miserable and a political flop pretty much since the very beginning. And that for some reason they have been refused an annulment many times. Not the point I'm making here. We just did not need that scene from a narrative and technical perspective.

[maedhros-erchamion]

I like ASOIAF and the Targaryen history is an interesting part of the whole story. Some of them were good, some of them were ambiguous and others were straight up monsters. I don’t have a problem of enjoying some f@cked up characters. However I have seen some weird things from some targaryen fans that make me unconfortable when I go in the tags. They are people who unironically believe that Targaryens are better than others not because of the dragons let’s say, but because they have silver hair and look like barbies basically. They again unironically complain when a Targaryen marries or has children with non Targaryens because there is a possibility that their children will be born with black or brown hair or something and this is bad for some reason?

Finally, I want to say a big thank you to these people because the story of ASOIAF is really creepy and they made the overall experience even worse.

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

Don't you just love it when TB stans insult the actors' appearances when they don't like the characters? And "having the bone structure of a Targaryen queen"? 🚩🚩🚩🚩

[fvckinaphrodite]

Can I just say I love the irony of Sansa antis, almost always Targies, using Sansa as an example of the one Stark that "didn't keep their promises/didn't act with honor/betrayed her family" when Miss L/yanna "I don't want to marry Robert because he's having consensual sex while single/unmarried so I'm going to run away with a married man with two babies at home" Stark exists. Pure comedy.

Oh absolutely, anon! It's just so funny when most fics i've come across in which Lyanna lives always show how she dislikes Sansa, describing in lengthy paragraphs how Lyanna thinks Sansa is a stupid, naive, shallow girl who deserves to get her dreams crushed. These antis really project her hatred for Sansa and their misogynistic thoughts through Lyanna, all because they think Miss Wolfblood is "not like other girls".

Speaking of the Targies, I once read a fic where Jon and Dany are raised with the Starks at Winterfell, while Sansa is sent to King's Landing as a hostage of the Martells for what Lyanna and Rhaegar did and married to Quentyn Martell. You think the narrative will sympathize with Sansa? Of course not! Because she's oh so shallow, she loves the South and will betray her family, she deserves the worst. All while Jon and Dany consider Ned as their father and being raised as honorable people, commit incest, and become the king and queen of the seven kingdoms because Aegon and Rhaenys (Elia's children) are the villains and the Martells are evil. I forget what happens to Catelyn, but just remember that she's *of course* also evil. I wished I could bleach my brain after reading it. Thank God that fic hasn't been continued for years, because honestly it's gonna save a lot of people from brain rot.

[the-daily-dreamer]

Alright. THATS IT. TIME TO LOSE MY SHIT.

The fact that Alicent is even ON THIS LIST is just flabbergasting. Now, to their credit, she’s second to last on this list (somehow worse than JAMIE LANNISTER?!). But still. Most evil characters?!

So, for fun, I thought I’d take a look at her characterization according to the writer of this list and rebut.

For the sake of organization, I will post the whole paragraph below and then go point by point:

“This one is fairly low on the rankings as it's not quite clear how villainous Alicent could become, with her moral standing leaning toward "complicated" rather than straightforward good or evil. However, she isn't quite the most innocent character in House of the Dragon either, with her manipulation of the grieving and ailing King Viserys, covering up her son's sexual crimes and fiendish proclivities and politically maneuvering an underhanded coup from her former best friend raising more than a few eyebrows about how far she'll go to protect her family.”

“Her manipulation of the grieving and ailing King Viserys”

First of all: Alicent was a 15 year old girl, the same age as Viserys’s own daughter, and his daughter’s best friend. Viserys is a full grown man and also the most powerful person in the entire kingdom as, you know, the king. Grief is a powerful thing and can certainly cause us to act contrary to our characters; however, that is not an excuse to have sex with and marry a child you have watched grow up alongside your own child.

Second of all: Alicent was not the master manipulator in this situation. She tried to fight back against the plan as much as she was capable as a girl and child, against her father who is the second most powerful man in the kingdom. The blame should go solely on Otto for this.

Blaming Alicent for “manipulating” Viserys when: she was a child forced to do this by her father, she fought against the idea, she was 15 and Viserys was a full grown man, and most of all HE WAS THE FUCKING KING, is crazy. Alicent had no power in this situation, nor did she want it. It was Otto’s idea and Viserys’s fault. Y’all blaming a child and acting like she’s an insidious master manipulator instead of criticizing the full grown man who had sex with her is crazy. Grief is no excuse. The men in this situation took advantage of Alicent. Not the other way around.

“Covering up her son’s sexual crimes and fiendish proclivities”

Where is the accountability on the deadbeat dad? Everyone keep blaming Alicent for how awful Aegon is. But nobody utters a word on how the other parent in this situation has done absolutely nothing. Viserys is also Aegon’s father (though this may be a shock to even Viserys himself seeing how neglectful and abusive he is to his children by Alicent). Viserys is the king. He has the power to implement whatever he wants but sits back and does nothing. But sure, Alicent is to blame because she’s actually involved and therefor her son being ruined is only her fault.

Alicent does her best at parenting Aegon and dealing with the shit he generates. What exactly could Alicent do to Aegon, a prince of the realm, to rectify the situation? Y’all are never happy when she does anything. When she disciplines Aegon, you scream she’s “abusive”. When she tries to compensate and fix the situation to the best of her ability, you scream that she’s enabling and covering up crimes. She will never win. And btw, she didn’t cover up for Aegon. Alicent listened to Dyana and tried to compensate for the pain. There’s literally nothing else she could do.

Y’all will blame Alicent for all the actions of the men in her life. Why not hold Aegon, the actual rapist, accountable for the situation. Not Alicent for trying to fix it. Because guess who’s not on the fucking list…AEGON. How will you penalize Alicent for trying to help fix the situation her son caused, but not penalize the man who actually committed the sexual crime? It reeks of sexism.

“Politically maneuvering an underhanded coup from her former best friend”

Ok. Let’s get this out of the way. Alicent believes Viserys said it was Aegon who is the heir. Stupid or not she does. But even without that Alicent does not stage a coup in some sort of villainous attempt to seize power for herself and away from Rhaenyra. She does it to protect her family. She has seen what happens when one of them is harmed, nothing. There will be nothing stopping team black from killing her or her children. This is a fight for survival. Not villainy. Fear.

Also it’s worth reminding that Alicent is the only one defending Rhaenyra’s life. Otto and other greens are perfectly fine with murdering Rhaenyra. Alicent is the only one fighting to protect her and counseling Aegon not to harm her.

In the end, Alicent is not a villain. She is the personification of how the patriarchy has abused women and torn them down in every way. Alicent has done her best to make everyone in her life happy. She has tried desperately to satisfy the selfishness and power-hungry nature of all those around her and reconcile everyone in her life. Alicent is not malicious or evil. She’s not seeking war or bloodshed. She wants her children and herself to be safe. Nobody should have “raised brows” at her defending herself and her family after she has spent decades being abused and seen more than enough proof that she is not loved or protected.

Villainizing Alicent can only happen if you’re willing to admit all this as well:

Grown men can never be held liable for having sex with teenage girls.

Teenage girls are at fault for the feelings adult men have for them.

Women are responsible for how their children turn out and men have no accountability in raising children or how they grow up.

Deadbeat father’s are ok, and the women left with the children are at fault for anything bad their kids do because they didn’t do a good enough job at being both parents.

Teenage mothers need to be perfect parents and can never make mistakes or have no idea what they’re doing because they, themselves are children.

Parents (specifically mothers) are responsible for the crimes of their children

Men shouldn’t be held accountable for rape. It’s their mom’s fault

And most of all: women who experience consistent trauma and abuse for years must hold it all in, accept further abuse with a smile, and “keep to their place”

Go ahead black fans. Admit this all. Admit you hate women and have deeply sexist beliefs. Then I’ll let you call her a villain :)

[earthyleo]

Please stop saying that the dance of dragons was a tragedy if you're only regarding the downfall of House Targaryen, the dance was a tragedy for Westerosi houses and the smallfolk who were broken apart by the cruelty of the Targaryens and the stupid war that they alone caused.

The true victims of the dance were people like Aryyk and Eryyk (brothers who once loved eachother turned into rivals by orders of their king and queen), House Strong (killed entirely by Aemond), House Caswell (their city was destroyed by Daeron), and the smallfolk who suffered the consequences of war such as famine and abusive taxes.

The targaryens? They deserved every bad thing that happened to them, their fate was not a "greek tragedy" it was well deserved karma.

[sunnysideaeggs]

Everyday the extreme targ/dany stans make your post about those faux white feminist inbreeds more valid jesus https://x.com/doncorleann/status/1695451690990752164?s=46

Omg I can’t even 😭😭😭 Sansa hated Daenerys not because she was a woman or a queen or whatever. She would’ve hated Viserys or Aegon too if they were the ones trying to ‘conquer’ her home. She hated Roose, Ramsay, Joffrey and Littlefinger, all men trying to take her birthright. To say she should bend the knee to Daenerys just because she has a vagina is sexist, and stupid. After all, Sansa met Cersei and knows that a woman in power can be as ruthless and cruel as a man.

In the later seasons of got she is (and later on asoiaf she will) a core believer of northern independence who wouldn’t settle for any unionist ruler, male or female. It reminds me a bit of The troubles in Northern Ireland (the north, duh!) happening when George was planning the saga, but I’m not very informed on those events. If someone is from Ireland/UK and would care to tell me more about it, I would be very grateful :)✨

It’s so awful that Targ Stan’s can’t even fathom that a woman can have an agency that goes deep into politics and isn’t just ‘Yasss queen! Women in power! Burn them all!’. Also, do they realize that Sansa ended up as a queen in her own right and married to no one?

[wandering-scavenger]

lol got my first block and it was by someone who actively decided to argue with me first. in fairness no insults were thrown 🤷🏻‍♀️

I ignore posts I disagree with, it's really not that hard. I don't get why it's so hard for others to do the same if they know they're going to get so riled up over it.

[spacerockfloater]

Cersei Lannister & Rhaenyra Targaryen:

Are forced to marry someone they don’t love, so they find solace in the arms of a family member and commit incest

Seduce members of the Royal Guard

Have their husbands murdered because they didn’t like them

Have three bastard kids

Commit atrocities to claim the Iron Throne

Betray their allies when they feel threatened

Rule with fire and blood

Live in constant paranoia so they murder innocent servants whom they believe will betray them, even if said betrayal would be a direct consequence of the way they treat their subjects

Are hated by the people

and lets us not forget the -

But no, please go ahead and tell me all about how Rhaenyra is this feminist icon who has the divine right to rule over hundreds of thousands of people because her daddy said so, therefore if I don’t support her I’m a misogynist.