#asoiaf critique

[horizon-verizon]

Collection of Race, the Medieval Ages, and the ASoIaF Franchise

🔗 LINKS, LINKS, LINKS!

Game of Thrones & Race  

(Guardian Article) “There are no black people on Game of Thrones’: why is fantasy TV so white?”

(Tor Article) “Game of Thrones’ Complex Relationship to Racism and Colonialism”

House of the Dragon & Race 

A) 

(Harper’s Bazaar Article) “Fantasy Has Always Been About Race”

Excerpt

But fantasy has always been about race. And medieval fantasy is not history, but a reproduction of history and its metaphors. The West cannot tell itself about itself without the inclusion of race. As a European invention emerging from colonialism and the transatlantic slave trade, race is the story of Europe’s encounter with difference, and the West’s primary way of organizing the world. The racial hierarchies of our world get translated into fantasy races that reflect the measure of one’s humanity. Race is the dominant social system in The Lord of the Rings’ Middle-earth, and as the blueprint for “high fantasy” literature, its racial allegories are reproduced across the genre: In fantasy book series, role-playing games, and films written in its tradition, race is the social hierarchy and source of conflict; in Game of Thrones’ Westeros, race is more of a political geography. It’s even the first decision (race, gender, class) a player must make in creating a character for any campaign in the iconic Dungeons & Dragons role-playing games. In fantasy, race is not just part of world building. It is the world.

B)

(Cosmopolitan Article) “‘House of the Dragon’ Cast Black Actors Only to Toss Them Aside, Like I Knew It Would”

Excerpt

I didn’t have high expectations for diversity when watching HotD—I mean, it’s a TV show about dragons, and Black characters historically haven’t appeared outside slave or servant roles (Grey Worm and Missandei from the original Game of Thrones come to mind). So when Steve Toussaint was cast as Corlys Velaryon (aka the Sea Snake), I felt slightly apathetic. Game of Thrones had already fumbled its two Black characters, so I believed the prequel would do the same.

[...]

Nowhere in the first season does HotD mention the Blackness of its few Black characters. All we’re told is that House Velaryon has blood from Old Valyria, which means they are really close to the Targaryens and often marry each other to keep the bloodline “pure.” Nothing wrong with that, but since the Velaryons are Black, shouldn’t all Velaryons have Afrocentric features? The casting department didn’t think so, apparently. One of the main storylines in the first season is the denial that Rhaenyra Targaryen’s children are bastards even though they have white skin and loose curly black hair while their “father” is Laenor Velaryon, a white-haired Black man with dreads. The book Fire & Blood (which the show is adapted from) also follows this plot point. But the Velaryons aren’t Black in the book, meaning it’s somewhat believable or at the very least plausible that Rhaenyra’s children are Leanor’s. I know this is a fantasy show, but there’s something really cringe about (1) trying to pass three obviously white children off as Black and (2) making the one Black family on the show the center of a *checks notes* paternity scandal. Even if House of the Dragon were only following the book’s plot point—the question of the legitimacy of Rhaenyra’s children—the decision to cast House Velaryon and thus Laenor as Black means that race and racial connotations needed to be introduced as well. You shouldn’t cast a white character as a person of color and then ignore their racial identity.

I’m not saying the showrunners did a disservice to fans of color by trying to diversify. But they did checkmark casting by beginning and ending that effort with casting Toussaint as the Sea Snake. If the showrunners took real time to consider how color-conscious casting could alter the show, maybe Black viewers like myself wouldn’t be disappointed that the only Black family in the series has mostly not survived. There’s a scene in episode 4 where Laenor, Leana (the Sea Snake’s daughter), Corlys, and his wife Rhaenys are walking down a flight of stairs into a wedding scene. That three-second clip SCREAMED Black excellence. Watching it gave me the tiniest hope that maybe the showrunners had it together. But three episodes later, the majority of the Black characters had been killed, with only two Black Velaryons still on our screens: Baela and Rhaena, Corlys and Rhaenys’s two granddaughters.

And I get why the characters were killed off—Laena and Laenor don’t survive in the books, so why would they live on in the show? But the showrunners could have shown the Black Velaryons for more than 10ish scenes while also sticking to the source material. Instead of rushing to the main conflict of the Targaryen civil war, we could have seen the development of Laena and Daemon Targaryen’s relationship or Rhaenyra and Laenor’s struggles at King’s Landing. I’m just saying the show had options, k? They chose to cast House Velaryon as Black knowing Black fans like myself were excited to see Black fantasy representation onscreen, only for said representation to be sidelined in a span of three episodes. Like, damn. Can Black folks have anything? Maybe the showrunners will do better with their “diverse” representation in the upcoming seasons. Probably not. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that fantasy series can have dragons, White Walkers, and dreamers who can see the future. But Black folks? That’s where they draw the line, apparently.

Other Articles about Black People/Territories in the Medieval World (c.400s - c.1400s)

The Table of Contents for the Public Medievalist’s “Race, Racism, and the Middle Ages” Series

Perfect Victims: 1096 and 2017

“Race, Racism, and the Middle Ages: Tearing Down the ‘Whites Only’ Medieval World”

“Uncovering the African Presence in Medieval Europe”

“A Brief History of a Terrible Idea: The ‘Dark Enlightenment’”

“Who were the African people living in Medieval and Tudor England?”

Finding Islamic Culture in a Christian Space

Introduction: Jews, Anti-Semitism, and the Middle Ages

“Ripping Anti-Semitism Out by its Roots”

A Tale of Two Europes: Jews in the Medieval World

Anti-Semitism Is Older Than You Think

Were Medieval People Racist?

Fascism and Chivalry in the Confederate Monuments of Richmond

Guardians of White Innocence

Is “Race” Real?

“Race” in the Trenches: Anglo-Saxons, Ethnicity, and the Misuse of the Medieval Past

A Vile Love Affair: Right Wing Nationalism and the Middle Ages

Recovering a “Lost” Medieval Africa: Interview with Chapurukha Kusimba, part I

Race: the Original Sin of the Fantasy Genre

Race in A Song of Ice and Fire: Medievalism Posing as Authenticity

Game of Thrones’ Racism Problem

Improving Dungeons and Dragons: Racism and the “Barbarian”

[witchlingcirce]

I think season 2 Alicent is really missing her yelling scenes

Like in season one when she went “Aegon… 👹GET UP👹” or the “ONE MORE WORD AND ILL HAVE YOU SENT TO THE WALL” likeee Olivia Cooke yelling is 100% gold I love it everytime manifesting we get them back season 3

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i still cannot believe that people consider having lovers outside of a political marriage as cheating

a lot can be discussed about how raging misogyny and the patriarchy in westeros has led to unequal standards for women to uphold and suffer from

as highborn women are not allowed the same sexual freedom that highborn men get to experience, and even if these women do have relationships outside of their marriages, they are usually scorned and shunned by society for daring to practice sexual autonomy

it’s unfair, i am very aware of this fact

(that’s why i’ll never understand team green stans)

but george has never ever condemned his characters for finding and experiencing love outside of doing their duty.

never.

we’re not unfeeling machines that lack emotions. we’re humans who are, more often than not, led by our hearts. and grrm does a phenomenal job when creating characters, as they truly feel human.

so yeah, it’s a bit disappointing that people dumb down what is clearly a very complex situation to “cheating” (btw george himself calls rhaegar and elias relationship complex and he’s never implied that they loved each other in a romantic sense).

to reiterate, i am well aware that highborn women and men are held to different standards, however, if you have a problem with characters working through, around, and sometimes failing to overcome the social structures that cause their suffering, then you must have a major issue with george’s exploration of the human heart in conflict with itself.

george’s characters aren’t robots and that’s what makes them interesting. they do things for very human reasons. they’re biased. they’re traumatized. they’re conflicted. but they’re still reaching for a better tomorrow and they’re still trying to find happiness.

so i’ll never consider rhaegar and lyannas relationship as cheating, or something unsightly that should be scorned. for they simply dared to find and grasp love in a society that would rather shackle them to unhappy marriages, which is very commendable.

oh… and do you know what george does criticize?

political marriages lol

he makes it clear that selling women off as broodmares and forcing men into marriages they don’t want is a recipe for disaster.

of course the eventual fallouts of these relationships is super interesting to read about, but you should never ever support the systems in place and the societies that benefit from pushing people/characters into these incredibly unhealthy relationships

so while i find it interesting to read about characters navigating these relationships, i’ll always be the first person to condemn these societies for forcing this fate onto them. i’ll also always be the first person to root for characters who do their best to find happiness outside of their political/arranged marriage

sorry that i don’t condemn a character for finding love outside of a loveless marriage

instead of getting angry at rhaegar and lyanna and being very nonsensical in the main tags about it, how about you turn that anger onto the patriarchy, which is rooted in every single institution and family in westeros, the patriarchy that refuses to allow women to have the same amount of sexual autonomy as men?

(this is why i despise team green :))

[wodania]

I wish critique of colonialism and feudalism in westeros was more welcome in the asoiaf fandom, considering the books are literally critiques of medieval and fictional politics. Like some people embody feudalistic lords a little too much when they see a critique of the most powerful ruling house in this fictional world and say “well so and so house did it too so shut up!!!” Like the inner medieval tyrant is showing. You are not a dragon you are a 20 year old from the United States of America. Quit dismissing every political analysis of a political book bc “so and so did it too”. You’re so boring.

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

It’s the way fantasy is broken down and built back up through a rather tenuous connection between Jon and Sansa. Two characters who are fantasy, when you really think about it, and are at the heart of GRRM’s deconstruction and reconstruction of common fantasy tropes.

There’s Sansa, the fantasy princess in every sense of the word. She’s breathtakingly beautiful and polite. She’s got her magic pet and her penchant for singing sweet songs. She wishes to explore outside her father’s magic castle and then boom, the king visits and now she’s betrothed to the most handsome prince who’s destined to be king. And he promises that he will take her out of that tower. She will get to live the grand romantic performance of a prince rescuing his maiden and marrying her and living happily ever after. And he does….only it’s the worst outcome imaginable. Out of one tower into another (and the tower is gender!). The handsome prince is a sadistic freak who abuses her and controls her. The beautiful queen is actually quite evil and perpetuates her abuse. The knights at court ignore her or are active participants in her dehumanization. Her family is either dead or far away from her. And as all pretty princesses are, she’s brutally orphaned. There’s no one to protect her. There are no valiant heroes and there are no true knights…..or maybe there are? In her disillusionment, she wishes for a hero to chop off ugly Janos Slynt’s head. Then in comes Jon Snow - a bastard black knight who is ironically (and unknowingly) the heroic prince Sansa dreams of but has come to think doesn’t exist. Sansa, a princess in a tower who is losing all hope. And Jon, a prince in hiding who is her hope. Huh…I thought fairytales didn’t exist? Maybe they do, actually. You just have to open your eyes and see.

[professorsparklepants]

I keep trying to think more about the "Bridgerton but it's the Starks" au and every time I end up getting distracted by worldbuilding before I can actually think about plot or romance or people's sex lives. A travesty. The fact that I don't really read romance novels means I probably should have seen this coming.

[rhaenin-time]

Targ bashers are so weird because in-between their rants that troublingly echo real rants about "foreigners" they'll hide behind the argument that "They're essentially evil because of their incest," while they ironically claim that they're also evil for thinking themselves bio-essentially better and then when you point out that all the noble houses of Westeros practice incest they'll jump to, "Oh, but that kind of incest is fine because it's normalized within Andal culture."

[talesfrommedinastation]

Just read the ‘making of’ behind the scenes regarding the second season of House of the Dragon.

Taken from r/houseofthedragon

In between this, Eric Kripke’s gross behavior in regards to assault on The Boys, and, well, the behavior of the staff running the last season of The Bad Batch….

…I’m convinced it’s a combination of glue huffing, hubris, nepotism, and low bars that get people hired to write shows these days. I’m not even talking about The Witcher, which violated the Geneva convention with how much the writing gave fans physical pain.

Christ, during my dissertation process, I got annihilated by my committee over each word choice. I had to get rid of whole chapters*. I had to write memo after memo about chunks of word selections.

It was hard and brutal.

Still, I ended up with a PhD, and my work ended up being published in different journals when all was said and done. It was solid.

Why don’t mainstream writers deal with this?! FUCK!

*= I ended up taking one, polished it up, and sent it to a publisher. It’s now a chapter in a major textbook so there’s fucking that.

[fromtheseventhhell]

"Arya" Wedding Dress

"Dracarys" // 2025 bridal collection, by Kim Kassas Couture [x]

[lostchildofthenewworld]

oh i see the hotd fandom has quickly reached the levels of racism in the asoiaf fandom concerning non-white/non-valyrian characters; how majority fandom ships a problematic white couple at the expense of the poc around them and how it’s detrimental to the narrative. ah yes, i am familiar with your game…unfortunately

[catofoldstones]

as someone from a country that was colonised for almost 200 years you can absolutely miss me with that mhysa shit

[banefort]

This doesn’t really need to be said but a Valyria spinoff show just Wouldn’t work I’m surprised I still see so many people asking for it. There’s such little detail about it in the texts that the show runners would have to build the entire empire’s history, arts, political and economic systems from scratch, all while marrying it in a satisfying way to the main ASOIAF plot. Besides a scant few Valyrians and dragons, the general culture doesn’t have enough/any presence in the main series for a show based in Valyria to feel familiar or gratifying at all.

Not to mention, I cant see a Valyrian-centered show having the confidence to unpack the politics and machinations of a slave-based empire, let alone frame the ruling Valyrians in any critical light

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

My favorite thing in this fandom's reddit presence is that while people in the ASOIAF subreddit have interesting conversations about succession, politics, geography and cultures by drawing real life parallels, speculating about theories and debating claims based on several aspects of this world in context, any succession debate in the HOTD subreddit is basically "Who cares if Rhaenyra's kids are bastards, the king and Laenor says they aren't so it obviously should not and would not cause any problems amongst anyone and would not have any consequences in the future if the Greens weren't sexist assholes."

Like not saying there aren't rotten people in the ASOIAF sub or perceptive people in the HOTD sub but the way most of the posts and comments go makes it clear that HOTD sub is just full of Targaryen stans (very specifically, not actual fans of the series but just this family) who scream in excitement at Daemyra, dragon and #girlboss scenes and watch with one eye on their phone during anything else, who are allergic to any discussions with the slightest bit of depth

[jurisffiction]

iwtv has made me understand hotd fans more than ever before in terms of people who go out on a limb for team green just for the indignant party rush of it like i've never been able to cheer for a side beyond being invested in watching the narrative go down in hotd but im here instinctively like Actually i think armand had his reasons i think he really did some good work out of a bad situation maybe we should listen to him ! Am i right ? No. Do i truly believe that? Absolutely no. Am i clapping and howling and putting pictures of him up on my fridge anyway? Yes<3. run the 'armand-centric beatlemania' tweet

[atopvisenyashill]

i’m loooving asoiaf but i’m disturbed by the way martin describes the girls’ bodies, do we really need to know that dany/marg/jeyne have small breasts? do we really need to know that sansa’s are “ample for a girl her age”? do we really need to know the color and size of arianne’s nipples? must they all come with a bra size?

ya, imo it’s a combination of

there were a few time jumps/events he thought would take longer that didn’t work out and when he abandoned them timeline wise, he didn’t like, abandon the characters acting older lol

george tends to focus on the extreme youth of the characters as a form of tragedy (the infamous “she had just turned 14” line) but because george himself is interested in the way war, identity, power, etc affect sexuality, it also unfortunately means he focuses in way too much on the bodies and sexualities of barely teenaged girls.

the “payoff” of all this is the ending of the series which we will never get, so i think people think the extreme levels of skeezy behavior will be ignored like they are in f&b - see: rodrick arryn being a sweet doting husband to his child bride, something that just doesn’t happen in the main series. the only “functional” couple we get with an age difference like that is fat walda and roose bolton, and roose is a villain and they are about to get merked by ramsay anyway so! every other teenager/adult sexual or romantic relationship has some obvious level of abuse on display, even Lancel/Cersei - you can really see the relationship damage his sense of self as it progresses!

he is a 75 year old white man named george from jersey. him being an amazing writer does not negate the fact that he has his own blind spots & will write things that don’t land. also sometimes, because he is interested in sex and sexuality, you will see him just get distracted by his own kinks when writing. i would be more willing to forgive him for this if we at least had twow and some form of "pay off" but alas. we're all doomed to have this half finished story lol.

[euphorial-docx]

okay so game of thrones draws from real life medieval history, right? so tell me why people are saying it’s unrealistic for a medieval series that draws from real life to have girls be married young?

that’s not a positive point in history and it’s normal to feel uncomfortable with that and dislike that fact, but being married off young very much did happen?? that is realistic even if it sucks. you can hate it and decide not to engage with asoiaf because of it, but that’s world history you’re denying??? open the schools.