#babygate memories

[chaoticvictorianspirit]

it's always "dysthymia" this and "general affective disorder" that and never "you're chronically emotionally numb because you've wasted all your ability to feel anything on one direction conspiracy theories in 2012-2016"

[treecakes]

literally i’ve only had two normal sized cats and. my other two cats were gigantic

[thedevilinmybrain]

my babygate thoughts after watching AOTV

I want to start off by saying that these are just my opinions and I am in no way, shape, or form indicating that I am apologizing or justifying my believed closeting of a queer individual. Nor am I making apologies for someone that I do not know nor will ever know. That being said, I do feel that I am allowed to draw my own personal conclusions given the evidence presented before us and make my own critical decision based on the content.

I do not believe Freddie is Louis' son. I honestly will never believe that he is biologically Louis' son.

That being said, I do think that AOTV did an interesting job of framing the Louis/Freddie relationship in the  midst of talking about his family and the role he is so often put in. For instance, I believe that AOTV is more of a film of self discovery and reconciliation of the self than anything else. It's framed about one man's struggle to find where he belongs and if he even deserves it. So in some ways, it's an introspective film about Louis' outlook on himself as an artist, as a brother, as a friend, and as an individual.

Given the way that Louis and his sisters talk about him, Louis has always been in the role of 'protector' and 'big brother'. Even in the band, there was a sense that Louis was the oldest and that he was 'the boss' because of his skill in voicing and sticking up for the rest of the boys. We have seen it time and time again from the way he's protective of his siblings to the way he was always so involved in the `1D days. This is a man who prides himself on taking care of others and making the best of situations - a fact that I will bring up later.

When it comes to babygate and the deals and trauma that surround that, I do believe that Louis had limited say in the matter. Much like the example in the film of the producer that gave Louis hope but ultimately did his own decision on the song, Louis' life in One Direction didn't come without a slew of managers and music company people who had a say in it and made decisions. I do not think at the beginning that Louis was allowed to give much imput or control over the happenings behind the scene. As 1D went on break and Louis was able to navigate his own career with a little more freedom, I do think that input changed but considering how much of his life is hidden behind contracts and NDAs, I don't think the truth will ever be told in its entirety. And honestly, I am okay with that because at the end of the day, it's Louis' life and I am just an observer.

So, when it comes to Freddie now, I am of the opinion that Louis is more of an 'uncle' or 'family friend' to him. Given the limited amount of time we actually know they spend together, probably equal to how much Louis has seen Doris and Ernie, one can speculate that Louis isn't a constant in Freddie's life. More of a randomly visiting family memmber than a core fixture. We never hear Freddie call him Dad. We see Freddie multiple times look at the camera during the film and on other occasions such as the holidays where it feels like he's being prompted to interact with the family. It's the same feeling of seeing an uncle at Christmas that you haven't seen in ages. You know them but you're not 100% comfortable.

So, why even bother? Why does Louis make any effort at all?

I think it comes down to him being in the role of protective older brother. If there is nothing he can do about babygate, if there is nothing he can change about the narrative now, the very least he can do is make positive memories with an innocent child. I mean, what would fandom prefer? Every time they're stunted together that Louis just ignores Freddie like he's Eleanor? Found somewhere in the background looking miserable?

It's making the best out of the worst situation. Because one day, someone is going to explain all of this to Freddie. And yes, I do believe it's unfair and it's cruel to the child, but we also don't know what he's being told as his own narrative. Maybe he knows Louis as his 'Uncle Lou' or 'The UK family'. We just don't know. But what we do know is that when Louis is with him, he takes on the role of big brother. He plays with him, he gives him good memories, he provides experiences just like he did/does for his younger siblings. It's shown in the film with the way he kisses the baby twins. It's Louis being a stand in 'father figure' or 'big brother'.

I'm not saying it's right or that it's the way it should be. Honestly, I don't think closeting should be a thing at all. It's grossly unfair to everyone involved. But the Louis I know, the man we've all loved from the very beginning, would never allow himself to be cruel or cold to someone innocent. And I think he's doing the best that he can given the circumstances.

And I hope one day when Freddie finds out the truth, at the very least he can look back and be like 'Yes, this was unfair and unjust and completely inappropriate. But all I know of this man is the kindness and the fun and the good times. He didn't cause me more pain.'

[sheltershock]

(Sorry for the long text post, but if you want to read, this is a 2k word essay about Sasha’s backstory.)

I know that Sasha running away from home after discovering as a child that his parents had sex is a well known, and often joked about, aspect of his character. However, to me, I don’t think that is the reason he ran away from home. That earth shattering discovery might have been the catalyst, but not the reason. 

Trigger Warning for Emotional Neglect. 

There’s a lot to say about Sasha and his level/mindscape, which is great. But something that has always fascinated and impressed me was the memory vaults specifically. Sasha’s two memory vaults not only helps flesh out his character, makes him relatable to the player, and thoroughly explains his relationship dynamic with Razputin. And all of this is done without words. 

The first big thing to say about Sasha’s First Loss is that it’s the only memory vault to be displayed in first person(in the typical style. Loboto’s is in 3D so it’s different), aka through Sasha’s eyes. The artistic reason why it’s in first person is because since Sasha is a baby at this point in his life, the artist can use baby furniture and his size to set up framing and composition to tell the story. The story reason for why it’s in first person is because more emotional emphasis can be placed more on his father. Whenever we see tragic stuff in memory vaults we get to see the character who experienced the memory so we can see their anger/sadness/joy/etc. But there’s already emotional baggage next to the vault and it’s titled “Sasha’s First Loss” so we already know what emotion is attached going in. But seeing Sasha’s father’s reaction to his wife’s death is actually really important contextually looking at Sasha’s early life.

The thing is, his dad never really got over his mom’s death. And that ruined everything. It’s like if the start of your life to the end was a race you had to run, and then the announcer says “ready, get set, go” and fired the gun into the air to start the race, waited five seconds, and then shot Sasha in the ankle and expected him to keep going. Of course this leg of the race was going to end horribly. 

After we see Sasha’s mother’s soul leave her body, the next slide is of Sasha watching through a window as his dad is grieving/burying his wife. His hand is on the window, as if to reach out to where his parents are, but the pane of glass physically blocks them from reaching each other. This is the first artistic representation of their father-son relationship after his mother’s death. Distance. 

The slide after the burying scene is the last one of the memory vault, and it’s my favorite. It depicts Sasha looking at his dad through bars of a baby gate. On Sasha’s side, in the foreground, are blocks and baby toys on a soft blanket. On the other side of the gate, in the middle ground, is a framed photo of his mother sitting, perpetually smiling behind a pane of glass. And in the background of the image, his father is sitting as far as he can be from the foreground, looking out a window with his hands folded and an open book in his lap. I love how the bars of the babygate separate the layers of the image from his dad and the photo of his mom. Especially with the detail that the photo is physically closer to Sasha than his actual living father, yet is still barred from both of them. You can really see the emotional distance the tragedy has caused for the two of them.  

This slide not only utilizes the distance from the previous slide, but also introduces a new concept, attention. Despite the fact that your wife just died and you have an infant/toddler to look after, Sasha’s father has instead elected to read a book and look out a window. He doesn’t look at his child, which is a detail that returns in the second vault. 

In Sasha’s Second Sight the first slide contains a far older, but still really young, Sasha working in the cobbling store with his dad. This memory vault is in the traditional third person point of view so we can actually see Sasha’s face this time. Again, the distance between the two is obvious. Sasha is in the foreground on the right side, meanwhile his father is in the background but on the left. It’s immediately clear that they never really got closer all these years later. Another detail is that even though they’re both working, Sasha is still looking towards his dad, like in the previous vault, yet his dad’s attention still  isn’t on him. 

The second slide depicts them both at a work table, but his father is the only one working. Sasha is instead holding up a picture of his mom, the same one from the first vault, and asking about her, meanwhile his dad refuses to share anything. While they are physically closer in this slide, all that credit is removed by the fact that his father’s back is turned to Sasha. Creating yet another barrier between the two. 

The third slide is Sasha attempting to look into his father’s thoughts because despite the fact his surname literally means “no” he does not want to take that as an answer. His father’s back is still turned to his son, but he’s grasping his face, clearly still grieving after all this time. We already know what happens on slides four through six, mind reading stuff. Instead I’m skipping to slide seven, where Sasha is now very mentally disturbed. 

In his panic, he’s actually turned to face away from his father, but is still glancing towards his direction. And the final slide, slide eight, Sasha runs away from home. Again the distance is there, and stronger than ever. Sasha’s in the foreground, his dad is in the background, and Sasha’s already down the street with a bag over his shoulder. Interestingly enough, Sasha is still glancing back towards his dad, as he watches his son run away from home from the doorway of the store. His dad is just standing there, watching this happen. He’s not calling out for him, or asking if he’s going to be coming back, he just watches. And this is the second time in both memory vaults that his dad actually looks in Sasha’s general direction. I’m serious. The first time was before his wife died and he’s making eye contact with Sasha as his wife does that thing people like to do where they toss their baby into the air and catch them(Sasha’s First Loss, Slide Three). After that point, he never looks at his son until he’s actively running away from him.

Okay, so what’s the point of this? The two big things, distance and attention. Both memory vaults have shown both how far apart emotionally they are from each other, and how Sasha is always looking towards his dad but never getting his attention. And I understand why his dad is acting like this. Loss is complicated and if you get stuck with a child that actively reminds you of that person you lost and is asking about them, I understand why he’d avert his eyes. However, Sasha is a child, with only one living parent that will not look at him. I ask you this: what exactly is Sasha losing by running away from home from an emotional standpoint? Absolutely nothing. All he had of his mother was a framed photo, hidden behind glass, much like the image of his father grieving over a grave. That's all they are to each other, they knew this woman, but in two very clearly different ways. But now, Sasha’s perspective on his mother has changed due to mind reading. He wouldn’t be living with this man who knew his mother and be willing to endure a tense living situation for stories. Now the tension has evolved into discomfort as all this man’s stories will have that underlying image of what he saw, and he doesn’t even seem to like having Sasha around. 

Another point towards my argument that it was the neglect that led to the decision is that we know from Razputin that running away is technically a decision that can be reversed. You could go back home, or a relative can go get you and bring you back. But in the last slide of Sasha running away, his father isn’t going to go chase after his kid like Augustus would do. Sasha’s father just kind of… accepts it? He doesn’t know that his kid read his mind, all he’s aware of is that after years of raising this child, he runs away from home and just lets it happen. And from Sasha’s perspective, while yes, his mind is probably torturing himself with new knowledge, he’s still looking back from where he came. But much like how his father’s back was turned to him, creating a barrier between them, his father is standing in front of the store’s door. And his father is built like a fridge, so there might as well be a blockade in front of the door. If your own dad won’t even look in your general direction why the hell would you want to go back to that with the added pressure of already having run away?

Okay, so remember Razputin? It’s fun seeing all the mentor/dad-figure Sasha and Raz content; and it’s very sweet. But it actually makes sense from a character perspective in the text. Sasha’s grown up now and becomes an international superstar secret agent, gets to be a camp counselor, and suddenly this child who’s extremely psychically gifted breaks into the camp. Turns out that this kid ran away from home…and doesn’t want his father to come pick him up due to some strange related angst. Huh. Compelling. Of course Sasha sees himself in this child he’s known for like two hours. It’s like looking into the past really, and Sasha is dying for the chance to take this kid aside for some tests, alone from everyone else. Sasha sees a lot of untapped potential in this kid, and doesn’t doubt the damage Razputin can do. And now he’s teaching this kid PSI-Blast and trying to impart life lessons like keeping control of the mind… He’s putting himself in danger through this shooting course, and ends up pushing Raz out of the way when things really start taking a turn for the worse and making himself take on any pain. He’s letting Raz make a few mistakes, but making sure he’s safe. Just like a parent would do… And oddly enough, throughout the Marksmanship lesson, he’s always keeping a watchful gaze over Razputin and standing close enough that he can feel his presence but not invade the kid’s personal space. It’s almost like he’s stepping into a father figure role for this runaway. Because that is exactly what Sasha’s doing, whether it’s intentional from him or not. 

I like to think that Sasha being there as a support for Raz in a way that he wanted/needed as a child is actually a form of healing for him. It’s like that thing where new parents try to be a better version of their parents so they can prevent mistakes. I know Raz was unconscious while Augustus was walking around talking to all the adults so we never get to see him interact with Sasha. But I like to think that he’d be relieved that Razputin’s father immediately chased after his son. And especially relieved that Augustus acknowledges his past wrongdoing and is going to make more of an effort to be there in support of Razputin. It’s sweet to me that at the end of the first game Sasha specifically includes Raz for the Truman Kidnapping mission, stepping up to him, looking down at him and referring to Raz as their “anti-kidnapping specialist.”

Sasha’s backstory always seemed pretty emotionally complex to me, and naturally fit with his relationship with Raz. And like how Milla’s name is pronounced with the obvious “a boy I thought was cute said it wrong so I will say it wrong the rest of my life” explanation is just a surface level, but still valid interpretation, this is my interpretation of Sasha’s early life and the decision to run away. 

[twopoppies]

TY Gina! Your whole explanation about the pitting the boys’ solo careers against each other was so helpful. I’m curious what you meant when you said “and then there was a whole faction of people who flipped out over Harry’s lyrics and image not meeting their expectations.” I wasn’t a Harry fan then. Why did fans not like HS1?

Hi sweetheart. Hm. It’s kind of a difficult question to answer because it was really layered and everyone had their own reasons. But my memory of it was that starting at some point in 2015 people thought Irving Azoff was going to sign the band as a whole, and “save” them from Sony. So there was a lot of anger and disappointment when it became clear that it was only Harry the Azoffs were interested in.

Then you have to also factor in that babygate was in full swing in 2016, and we had Louis with his new beard (Danielle), so he was being photographed constantly and he looked exhausted and miserable more often than not. Meanwhile what we were seeing from H was yachting with Kendall and filming Dunkirk. So there was growing resentment about Harry’s perceived life vs Louis’ perceived life. Then Jay died and we learned she’d been sick most of the year while Louis was having to be in the US constantly papped with Danielle and Freddie. And then Louis performed JHO on X Factor and did the promo for it with Steve Aoki (which made it very clear that the only promo that was happening was due to Steve’s team and not Syco/SJPR). Then the teaser for HS1 dropped and it was clear where Sony’s interest lay — Harry was everywhere and every piece of media hailed him as the second coming of Bowie and Jagger. In addition, we got a big het Harry push where the album was linked to Kendall, T*ylor, and Townes. I say all of this to try and give you an idea of where people were at when the album dropped. There was so much anger about what was happening to Louis, and many who thought they’d broken up transferred their frustration into being angry at Harry.

Then the lyrics dropped and some people got very upset at songs like Only Angel (for being “misogynistic”, Carolina (for being a stunt song linked to Townes), and Kiwi (especially the line about “hard candy dripping on me till my feet are wet” After which someone started a rumor about Harry writing a song about underage girls).

So, yeah. It wasn’t that fans didn’t like HS1. But the split between larries, harries, and louies was getting wider. And those who didn’t decided that they no longer liked Harry generally seemed to have had a preconceived notion of how his solo rollout would go and what his solo music would be, and the reality didn’t match what they wanted.

Again, sorry this is long. It’s really hard to sum this sort of thing up, and this only scratches the surface, but I hope this helps a bit.

In reference to this

[skepticalarrie]

hi allie! i can’t seem to remember if i’m imagining something that happened or not. did louis wonder around a city (was it chicago?) for hours and he lost his phone and wallet? i don’t remember if i saw that somewhere or if i’m going a bit bonkers lol. i think maybe he took photos with fans too? if that happened, do we know why? or if was it triggered by a stunt like babygate? thank you in advancee!! 💖

I do remember Louis losing his wallet/documents a few times, but I don’t remember this one time specifically or details about it. He was in Chicago when he got his 28 tattoo, so maybe it was around that time?! Sorry my memory has gone to shit lately

[caralara]

carraaaaaaa! I watched the doc today. first of all, I am so happy that it was released in India! good god, finally. the doc was so good. before going for the movie or even before buying the tickets I was skeptical if i should watch it or not because people said there were many F contents. but i am so happy i got to experience this. there were so many fans and it was such a nice nice moment. i was afraid and worried that the person sitting next to me might be an anti or solo but noooooooo they were so nice and they didn't believe it was his son either, so the whole time we were like "what is this point of this? the kid is sweet but not his. they keep repeating the Christmas content" and i was happy again that at least the person next to me is also not a believer of babygate. overall it was so good. yes, the scenes were convincing but didn't convince me. honestly biggest 🚩 is no pre 2020 content which again, dude had a camera the whole time (even when i think about it in the light of any possibility of F being his son; he showed so many memories from past but no single thing of F between 2016-2020). yeah, liam and niall were there.. I was so surprised.. yohooooooo!

this has pretty much convinced me that there is infact a plan and Louis knows what he's doing. his script was nice and he does have a bond with him but no, no daddy vibes for me. it's ending. i know now. and there is a proper ending, i feel it in my guts. anyways, have a good day!

ps: it was my first fandom experience and the first timw that i realised the 18.4 m followers isn't me alone. there are other legit real fans 😭😭😭😭

Hi Koko!!!!

First of all what?? You’re so wrong Louis is the daddiest of daddies in this, so many daddy vibes 🥵! no jokes aside, I 100% see what you mean. Cool uncle vibes yes dad vibes no.

But I am SO happy you got to have this experience??? With other people?? In India?? Im SO SO glad you got to see it in a space with other Louies!

And I’m glad you enjoyed the doc as much as I did despite it being so heavy on bbg!

Thank you so much for sharing your lovely review of the doc and I hope you have a great rest of your evening ♥️

[harryandlouisarehappilystrong]

You know what I think about all the time? How much of Harry and Louis' lives have truly been wasted having to live these lies all the time, and for what? In 40 years, no one will remember Holivia or Elounor or babygate, but they'll have years worth of memories without each other, publicly. So much wasted time not being together, publicly. Not being out at all. Living half-lives. And for what? Truly, for what? For a dead-end movie no one will remember a year from now? Relationships no one will think about? So much life just wasted, and for what? It makes me so fucking sad. I hope it all ends up being worth it to them, but Jesus sometimes I can't see how it could be...

[newjenns]

all of this crtiblr talk is unlocking old memories that i forcibly repressed after everything went down. it's so funny that people shit talk it. when looking back, half the shit mcyters did is shit i never should have put up with or defended...perspective is crazy

hindsight is 20 20 ! that is probably the fandom i am Most embarrassed of being apart of which i’m sure you probably know. is saying something bc i genuinely believed in babygate

[bowtiesnmusicals]

Here is my recap of The Spider and the Queen B (Preggers) episode of the podcast

Jenna really enjoys this episode and has a lot of memories. Tina gets her moment to shine.

Kevin doesn't have a lot of memories because he wasn't there.

What was happening in the world at the time: The Black Eyed Peas were still crushing it. I've Got A Feeling was still #1. The cast was still in Australia. There was a huge dust storm. It was frightening.

This episode has the least amount of songs of any episode.

There are no full songs in this episode.

There were a lot of first in this episode. There were no duets or group numbers. The first Sue's Corner. First appearance of Burt, Matt, and Mike. First time Mr. Shue keeps his shirt on. No shirtless Shue this episode.

We get to see more of the other glee members this episode.

Three big things happening: babygate, beyoncegate, Sue and Sandy plotting.

Mike O'Malley is one of the most lovely human beings and an excellent actor that you just can't keep up with.

Terri and Kendra are in cahoots now that Kendra knows Terri isn't pregnant. When Kendra asks if the baby is black is possibly wink and nod back to Nip/Tuck and Jessalyn's character on that show.

Quinn is pregnant.

Think of the mailman is a great scene.

Spoiler Alert: Puck is the dad.

Fairy veil was a term coined by Telly and Naya. There is a bran of hair extension called Fairy veil and that became their secret term.

Jenna loves Single Ladies.

Heather and Chris had been working on Single Ladies dance for weeks. Jenna got thrown into it later on.

Jenna only ate canned tuna fish and salsa for two weeks because she knew she would be in a leotard.

They would have to do the dance at every Fox party.

Heather, Jenna, and Chris rehearsed for a couple of weeks. They shot part of it on a blank wall like the music video but that part never got used.

Kurt smacking Tina's ass was improved.

The Single Ladies outfit was Chris's idea. The original outfit was closer to the music video.

Kurt now has to audition for the football team. Kevin says those scenes are so magical.

Kurt's coming out scene is beautiful. Kevin said it's a little clunky but that is what makes it great.

Burt's acceptance is fast but he still needs time to process.

Burt accepts Kurt to the best of his abilities. They only have each other and he's not about to lose his son after he's lost his wife.

Jane Lynch and Stephen Tobolowsky are insane in the best way.

Lea and Jenna both asked for a lot of Celine songs. Lea got one later on but it was the wrong song.

If you watch Tina on the ladder practicing Tonight she is wearing a big spider necklace. Jenna and Kevin have arachnophobia. She panicked about having to wear the necklace. Jenna didn't know at the time she could say no to costume and hair decisions. They made the chain longer and that helped.

Kevin was peeved that Rachel's audition song in this episode clearly sounds like it was done in a recording studio and Tina's while it was prerecorded was made to sound like it was being sung live. Tina didn't get the most produced songs.

Tina always gets the shit end of the deal.

This was Jenna's first big scene with Matt. Matt told her she was cheating out which is something you do in theater.

Sue's Corner was just Sue ranting. They get crazier and crazier.

Terri Schuester is a horror movie character. The car scene is terrifying and so illegal for so many reasons. It's also wonderful.

Kevin loves a good car cry.

Kurt's coming out scene is not Ryan's life but based on the reaction he wished he had from his parents. Kevin texted Ryan during the recording to find out the answer.

It is nice to see a positive response to coming out.

Glee club has added 3 new members by the end of this episode. Matt, Mike, and Puck.

Tartie Takes:

Cringe Moment - Sandy Ryerson, Figgins commercial

Worst Dance move - none

Best Song - Single Ladies

Best Line - My body is like a rum chocolate soufflé if I don't warm it up right it doesn't rise.

Best performance by a prop - the spider necklace

Things that didn't age well - Is the baby black?

Thing that did age well - Burt coming home early to watch Deadliest Catch

Shit we found on Tiktok:

They shouted out two people that do recaps on the podcast.

When Karofsky is first introduced he on the hockey team and later is on the football team. Kevin asked Max about this plot hole. Max said when he originally auditioned he auditioned for Karofsky and Azimio. Karofsky was a hockey player and Azimio was on the football team. They were both jocks that bully the glee club. Karofsky was originally a one episode character. They decided to bring him back and it was easier to just make him a football player.

Jenna likes being surprised every week by the shit we found on tiktok segment and she likes not having to do any prep work for it.

Next week is Rhodes Not Taken. They loved getting to work with Kristin Chenoweth.

[omgwhatchloe]

earliest memory

crying at a babygate trying to get into the living room while my mum ignores me

[libelulaforever]

A Larrie wrote:

...when it comes to Freddie now, I am of the opinion that Louis is more of an 'uncle' or 'family friend' to him. Given the limited amount of time we actually know they spend together, probably equal to how much Louis has seen Doris and Ernie, one can speculate that Louis isn't a constant in Freddie's life. More of a randomly visiting family memmber than a core fixture.

I think it comes down to him being in the role of protective older brother. If there is nothing he can do about babygate, if there is nothing he can change about the narrative now, the very least he can do is make positive memories with an innocent child. I mean, what would fandom prefer? Every time they're stunted together that Louis just ignores Freddie like he's Eleanor? Found somewhere in the background looking miserable?

It's making the best out of the worst situation. Because one day, someone is going to explain all of this to Freddie. And yes, I do believe it's unfair and it's cruel to the child, but we also don't know what he's being told as his own narrative. Maybe he knows Louis as his 'Uncle Lou' or 'The UK family'. We just don't know. But what we do know is that when Louis is with him, he takes on the role of big brother.

I'm not saying it's right or that it's the way it should be. Honestly, I don't think closeting should be a thing at all. It's grossly unfair to everyone involved. But the Louis I know, the man we've all loved from the very beginning, would never allow himself to be cruel or cold to someone innocent. And I think he's doing the best that he can given the circumstances.

And I hope one day when Freddie finds out the truth, at the very least he can look back and be like 'Yes, this was unfair and unjust and completely inappropriate. But all I know of this man is the kindness and the fun and the good times. He didn't cause me more pain.'

I can´t believe people are still thinking that Freddie is not Louis´s son... the level of stupidity that these people have is astonishing.

[leeminholinoing]

Briana x Lottie both around 8 month pregnant

[lwtgrey]

hey im from stan twt, i stan houaylor, my pronouns are she/her, i am a no stunt larrie and idk how tumblr works so pls reply w/ ppl to follow

[negans-wife]

I was hella cute as a baby 😍🥰

[gpalmora]

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