The Daemon/Laena marriage discussion in the last chapter has me thinking about Jon and Rhaegar being big brothers to itty bitty Baela and Rhaena 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
Rhaegar finally having younger siblings to love without the need to protect them from Aerys 🥺 Happy about being named twinsies with his littlest sister and spoiling her rotten 🥰 Helping Rhaena overcome her natural shyness and not letting her get overshadowed in this ridiculous family (unless she wants to, and then he shows her how to use that to her advantage)
Jon giving Baela his old clothes and taking her down to the training yard, and when someone (coughs, Cole, coughs) tries starting shit about this Very Obvious Princess in too-big trousers starts doing warm up exercises with a wooden sword, Jon's like "oh this is just my new squire Bael, don't worry about it." Using his status to get Baela the training she wants, how he could never do that for Arya 🥺
The four of them being all grown up and having inside jokes together 🥺 Baela volunteering for the dangerous mission of routing Rhaegar from the library. Rhaena and Rhaegar both answering when someone starts to say "Rhae—" . The three of them calling Jon "Lord Commander" when he's being bossy (not that the girls know about his past life, just that they copy Rhaegar doing it 😂)
Both of them would enjoy having Laena as a stepmother better than any other options I think. She's fiery and light-hearted and cares deeply for her loved ones. And obviously she gets extra points for having Vhagar (rip to Aemond's increasing rivalry with Jon, who now gets to be up close to the biggest dragon on the regular)
Also lol at Daemon being the father of two sets of twins. He's the most efficient father in the whole family 😂
Awwww I love all of these! Especially them all being older and knowing exactly how to manage each other, and all of their individual dynamics. (Baela and Jon butt heads a lot, but are also thick as thieves. Baela adores Rhaegar and loves dragging him and Rhaena into mischief. Rhaena being thrilled whenever Jon can be talked into courtly intrigue because he can be so deliciously, unexpectedly catty, and enjoying quiet moments with Rhaegar, when they need a break from their exuberant twins.)
I've been going back and forth lately on whether Daemon will marry Laena. My original plan was "no," and Laena would have her twins in another marriage, given the very different priorities between her and Daemon. (Daemon's...just not that interested in marriage now, with all the upheaval he's just experienced. Unlike in canon at this point, he has two sons, and Rhaenyra's not available, and his top priority is keeping the twins safe. Whereas Laena needs to get married yesterday for her family's sake.) But the twins having twins sisters is so hard to give up. I might write up my waffling in a separate post lol.
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—on sacrifice and conditioning
"Clones being programmed- nothing controls me!"
"Wrecker, it is a logical conclusion that your affinity for destruction would stem from your conditioning."
"You take that back!"
"I'm merely stating a scientific hypothesis based on factual data."
"Oh well I've got a fact for you. I like to blow things up because I like to blow things up!"
Wrecker and Tech, The Bad Batch season 1 episode 1 "Aftermath"
(disclaimer that here I'm talking headcanons, and while it is all based on my personal analysis of canon events, nothing here is 100% canon!)
So.
Reconditioning exists. I first read about it, obviously, on Archive of Our Own, and later researched more for other reasons, to find almost nothing on the topic- one of the most interesting ones regarding the clones, for the simple reason that it is called a reconditioning. To be conditioned again, twice.
What made me really think about this was the fic I wrote, that resolves around Echo's time after Skako Minor, as he deals with grief and loss, and a brief interlude about Dogma and his reconditioning.
So, Wrecker and Tech's conversation is put there before a (n almost) comical situation, them fighting in the cafeteria against the regs, which distracts a bit the watchers from it- and it's a pity, because it's one of the few things The Bad Batch gave to regular clones.
Tech proposes the idea that clones are engineered to be the way that they are, and Wrecker hates the idea, saying that he's his own person and no one made him that way- and it's the most reasonable response, isn't it terrifying to think that you're not a real person but what someone else made you, that what you are, what you feel you feel because someone else wants you to be that way, to feel those things?
They're, of course, both right.
One of the things I liked the least about The Bad Batch was that they gave us a whole show about clones, but defective ones- which is a huge huge deal, and handled "regs" in a really bad way, at least for me.
Not because regs were the "bad guys"- people who are mistreated can mistreat others, I'm not that naive, but they chose to not explore at all the differences between Echo and the others- and I find that the biggest difference is their perception of death.
My whole fic was born because of this- I imagined Echo, after Skako Minor, learning that Fives is dead, that Dogma and Tup and Hardcase are dead, that so many died while he was imprisoned, and the Bad Batch is watching him grieve from the sidelines, knowing nothing about grief.
Yes, they did mourn 99 when he died, but they aren't like other clones, who consider every clone close family and think that dying for them is a duty and honor. They're a tight-knit group, and while they understand sacrifice they're not part of a group of a thousand clones- they're four, they're clones, they have a thing called Plan 99.
Echo has seen thousands die, and is ready to die any day for the Republic, and the Bad Batch in the meanwhile is almost no used at all to the loss of loved ones.
It's enough to compare two sacrifice scenes, Hardcase and Tech, to understand the difference between Echo and the others, and the difference in how the writers perceive regular, ordinary clones and defective, unique clones.
Hardcase sacrifices himself, and Jesse and Fives are clearly sad- but they accept his sacrifice, because it was Hardcase's choice, and they would have done the same. It's a choice made in the moment, but still a sudden thing that they're all ready for- a juxtaposition that for them is the norm.
When Tech dies, they have a plan for just that- self-sacrifice to make the team survive, Plan 99, and they all oppose to that, they all try to stop Tech, they're, not to be mean, way more emotional.
Yes, we spend more time with Tech than with Hardcase, of course his death is written as something way sadder, but we're here to work with what they gave us, so we have two sacrifices.
One accepted in a minute, a name said twice before, a character made to die and make us empathize and suffer for his death, one that left such a deep mark in everyone around it.
Well, it's telling.
In The Clone Wars, we had some arcs dedicated to clones specifically, but most of them were pretty rushed (I have a beef with the way they wrote clones in the animated shows- except Rebels, but Rebels is the My Only Exception the Paramore spoke of), when The Bad Batch was all about clones.
Just not the regular ones.
So we have Echo, and we have the Bad Batch.
Echo, who's more prone to self sacrifice, just like Hardcase and his other brothers, and the Bad Batch, who has a plan made just for that, I repeat.
The Bad Batch received a different treatment from the kaminoans than the regs, which is why they think that regs hate them just because they are what, stronger, more efficient, different?
The so called 'regs' hate them, they do, and they hate them because their defections are called desirable.
(let's not talk about the word 'regs')
If they're clearly called desirable, there are defections that aren't desirable, and what happens to the clones who have them?
Imagine being scared of being different, of sticking out, because it would mean only bad things and danger (for the people who love angst and aren't scared of suffering termination) for them, and then see someone so clearly different and so 'beloved' for it.
Clones are brothers, sisters, siblings, yes, and not only in the way that makes them fluffy and miss each other.
What happens when, let's say, an older sibling sees their younger sister do what they used to do and used to be berated for by their parents, and not suffer any consequences?
In the worst situations, it ends up creating jealousy, hatred, and ruins the relationship as a whole. Or it simply strains it.
This is what they have.
The Bad Batch had a different upbringing, they had a different life, and their chip didn't work.
(Let's not think about Wrecker and Crosshair for a moment, and focus on the others. Hunter and Tech's chips didn't work. Whether it was wanted or not, they didn't. Why? Their defection, again.)
And they're not prone to sacrifice.
That's not the first thing they think about, that's not an easy answer they can give.
Sacrifice is difficult for them.
(less difficult than for a nat-born, more difficult than for a reg)
Now, sacrifice should be difficult for anyone, but it isn't for the clones, who were trained to fight and die for the Republic.
"Live to fight another day" not fight to live another day, because regs have to fight and fight and fight, and sometimes die- die is considered fighting. They were trained to do it, to fight and to die.
And the only reason this could have happened, is conditioning.
There were nat-borns on Kamino, that they met and interacted with, and they studied nat-borns since they had to one day work under them, so they know an alternative to their life, they have the tools to find out that they aren't being treated right. They were conditioned to accept their situation, their life, this life of fighting and dying, because otherwise why would they? Why would CC-8357 choose to die for a Republic who bought him, if he isn't absolutely sure that he is something made to be bought?
so yes.
Does this make Hardcase's sacrifice less important, less genuine? No, it doesn't because conditioning isn't something infinite.
Can we consider it his choice? Yes, I think so, but not a fully rounded one- in the way their choice to fight isn't a real choice, since they had no other options.
Does this make clones less human? Absolutely not, because with every second they spend outside of Kamino they learn and evolve, and this makes any part of their personality ten times more special- imagine being witty, broody, annoying and short-tempered, and imagine being witty, broody, annoying and short-tempered despite having humanity trained out of you.
the clones are so interesting because they should exist in the middle between droid and human, but can't help but be so human that people created enough lore that if someone wants to read on ao3 about them they have to research beforehand! The Clone Wars writers didn't deserve them but we do.
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i know it's compelling in fics for cas to feel betrayed about the jack in the ma'lak box decision but its So weird bc its obvious the moment jack breaks out of it hes like. oh man jack might need to be restrained at least until we can figure out a plan. like his first thought before jack breaks out is "this was cruel of them to do" and then hes like. oh fuck jack might be a threat actually.
like castiel is a complicated character hes on jack's side but by the time god suggests killing jack hes done a full 180 on it.
and when people are like "aiming the gun at jack is just as bad as shooting him" im even more confused bc like. dean aimed a gun at emma and didnt shoot her, even with the safety off. dean aimed a gun at SAM while under mind control/anger spell (talking about southern comfort iirc) and didnt shoot him. dean aimed a blade at cas and didnt stab him. like. its fine for cas to be upset at the god gun thing but its so weird when people act as if cas didnt basically admit jack needs to be stopped/bound next episode.
Cas should have been consulted and had a right to be angry that he wasn't included in the decision. At the same time, part of the reason the whole dead mom incident leading up to this happened is that Cas—yet again—kept something from everyone else so he could make unilateral decisions behind all their backs, so I'm not particularly sympathetic to his frustrations with being excluded.
I also just don't think it was cruel at all to put soulless Jack in a box and I think people should get over it. He was killing people and I care more about that than his feelings about being stuck in a box for all of 20 minutes. I simply don't care and it continuously baffles me how big a deal some fans makes out of this when Jack was going around fucking punishing and killing people in horrific ways for not believing in god on Dumah's orders after Cas suggested to her that Jack was in a vulnerable state due to being soulless and could be molded to do others bidding. Anyway like 20 minutes later, Cas went to inquire about putting Jack in The Cage. You know—the room where Sam was trapped for a year with Michael and Lucifer and where as far as Cas knows at that point, Sam was so badly tortured by Michael in addition to Lucifer that it ripped him apart at the seams?
Fandom's take on the entire thing is so devoid of even the most basic level of nuance or even plain simple honesty (to the point one of my mutuals was sent hate mail for months for nothing more than pointing out canonical facts surrounding the incident). It doesn't even surprise me anymore, because this is a fandom that infantilizes Jack to such an extent that it's been passionately argued to me that Jack should be allowed to kill people when he's angry because he has such Big Important Feelings and simultaneously and incongruously—that Dean shooting Jack to keep him from killing the black store clerk Jack was strangling to death in a rage was an act of abuse. Don't even get me started on gun disk horse that exists beyond that regarding the shooting people with guns show.
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oh my god, i love your MH time travel idea. did you have any other ideas for it??
OH BOY DO I
(Referring to this!)
Warning, this may be… Incomprehensible. I just have a lot of ideas and they aren’t fully fleshed out so I’m just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. Hope you like a wall full of spaghetti, Anon!
- While going back in time reverses the physical effects that Operator Sickness had, they all still carry the trauma of its effects and what happened during it, so while only Tim is experiencing symptoms (though currently managing them with his medication), they aren’t completely off scot-free.
- I imagine it takes them a minute to realize exactly how many people woke up with memories of the previous timeline. I feel like Brian would want to tell someone and that someone would end up being Tim and then they’d both realize they remembered and compare notes
- I HC Seth and Sarah as roommates so they immediately find out as well. Amy and Jessica too. Pretty much the only person that thinks they’re in this alone at first is Jay but fortunately that doesn’t last too long because maybe Brian starts trying to subtly figure out if anyone else has any memories by asking questions only someone who knew would know, and finally Tim, Jay, Brian, Seth, and Sarah all realize they’re on the same page.
- Imagine their shock and suspicion when they realize Alex is not. Further suspicion that only grows when Amy and Jessica show up meaning Alex is the only one who doesn’t remember. Maybe they try and test him to see if he’s faking it and if he’ll slip up.
- He doesn’t. Alex really doesn’t remember anything.
- There are… Lots of things to work out. Not just with where to go next but there’s still some animosity within the group and especially regarding the members of ToTheArk. Influenced by an otherworldly being or not, it’s still something they need to resolve. Not to mention, Amy points out that Alex was influenced too, an argument that keeps being brought up because nobody really knows what to think. Alex killed people, but how much of that was Alex and how much of it was something else entirely?
- Meanwhile, Alex just really wanted to work on his film but while he can location scout and work on the script all he wants, without actors, it’s not really gonna go anywhere, and his actors keep finding excuses to put it off.
- Alex has no idea what’s going on with everyone because Tim and Jay are polite at best and usually tense around him, Jessica keeps looking at him like she doesn’t know what to think, Brian can’t seem to make up his mind, Seth and Sarah flat out refuse to be in a room alone with him, even Amy is acting distant. He feels like he’s missing something but he doesn’t know what and nobody is telling him. All the conversations he catches sound like nonsense too so he’s pretty much completely in the dark too.
- Since Alex is out and about location scouting, he ends up catching the early stages of Operator Sickness. The next time he gets into a coughing fit in front of any of them, they freak out and Alex doesn’t get why.
- The arguments get worse. They can’t tell if Alex is doomed to repeat the cycle and if they need to take him out in order to prevent it, or if they can make sure he doesn’t turn out the same this time
- Being around Alex makes them all conflicted. Because this Alex is the Alex that they became friends with in the first place and they missed this version of him a lot but it’s one thing to miss it and another thing to get it back, especially considering a good chunk of them last remember dying because of him before waking up in the past. They don’t know if they can trust him, or if they’ll just get hurt all over again if they get attached
- Their distance from Alex causes a lot of internal issues for Alex himself. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out he’s the odd man out here, and the problem they have. He just doesn’t understand why and it’s frustrating but whenever he gets frustrated, it just drives them all further away and makes it worse. He doesn’t know what to do.
- Then maybe (still deciding on when), one day, Alex wakes up. And he remembers everything and understands better than ever. He doesn’t blame them. He didn’t help them at all in the end. But maybe he can now.
- In order to stop the sickness, it’s best to cut it off at the source. Alex doesn’t know what he can do against a monster like that but since it no longer has such a tight hold over him, he can do something this time. He has to do something. And if he dies trying? Then at the very least, it can’t use him against them anymore.
- While Alex does try to stand up to the Operator, it goes rather poorly. Fortunately, someone finds him unconscious somewhere (maybe Brian), drags him back to one of their apartments, and they have a talk when he wakes up. They’re still not the most comfortable around him but suffice to say, Alex regaining his memories and immediately choosing to attempt to fight the Operator proves that he’s not gonna repeat the same mistakes twice, solving that matter at the very least.
- Cue a whole lot of healing while attempting to figure out a way to get rid of a creature beyond their understanding
That’s about what I got! Again, just spitballed ideas, definitely needs some more fine tuning but it’s a start. Hope you enjoyed!
Also ty for the Ask, I love rambling about funny little AUs and it gives me all the more reason to :)
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