#ben 10 discourse

[catgirlxox]

and Ben 10 hate comment of the year award goes to this fuckhead

[ben-10-setting-omnicrom]

Given the release of X Men 97 and the fact X Men Evolution is easily my favorite version of the team, I've actually been kicking around the idea of doing a crossover fic where Ben joins the X Men after being stranded in a Marvel world and researching the various superhero teams he can join.

Like obviously he'd be the most powerful Avenger/X Men since he can literally go to cosmic scales at the drop of a hat and do shit like casually hand Thanos or Apocalypse their ass with zero effort but seeing as he'd likewise know that I honestly think he'd make the conscious decision to join the X Men out of any given superhero group because there's no way in hell he'd allow all that genocide and lynching and shit that happens to mutants all the time slide.

Hell he'd probably even agree with Magneto and absolutely sympathize with his already being a Holocaust survivor once already and not wanting his people to do it again. Though obviously Ben would disagree with his methods.

Oh and since mind scapes are big things in Marvel I figured the Omnitrix would basically make him immune to psychic tampering because it'd be his mind scape and thus have all of the esoteric defenses in place the Omnitrix already has as well as the various fail-safes.

Like that isn't to say he'd cooldown his heroic drive in Marvel of course, he'd absolutely get involved with stopping Galactus or whatever and not really abide by the whole "people being too busy or otherwise occupied and thus not able to help with the given crisis of the day" thing that's so common in Marvel stories even if it's nominally a shared universe.

Just look at everything that happened in Genosha and shit.

Given how often he'd interfere plenty of heroes really wouldn't like him lol since Ben would absolutely be ok with killing a motherfucker. Like the Maximum Carnage storyline? Ben wouldn't hesitate to kill Carnage and probably end up fucking hating Spider-Man for stopping other people from killing him in the first place.

It'd actually be pretty interesting to see how his presence would affect the canon of Marvel.

Like he could pretty easily make Galactus a non problem by using his super smart aliens/Galactus's own help to make a machine that can just fucking make planets for him to devour. The Galvan entirely remade their planet in less than 6 months after it was blown up by the Highbreed. Working with Galactus it'd be fucking trivial to give him a endless buffet of planets to feed on so he doesn't have to target planets with populations on them, something Galactus himself doesn't even like doing.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Galactus straight up made Ben his herald or something assuming the watch couldn't just scan him since he has DNA and shit.

If anyone would be down to co write this or something hmu in the comments or pm lol it's incredibly fun to think about the realistic consequences of a twist of fate like this.

[abcleverun]

In Defense of @xcatxgirlx

There was drama in the Ben 10 fandom ages ago. Little fuzzy on the exact details, but one of the major points of it (from my perspective) was this post.

In the post, my good friend Lenin added joke tags about their headcanon that Ben would grow up to be a multiple-time divorcee, but would eventually get his life together and settle down in a loving marriage with Rook.

I've known Lenin for years, and they often make jokes like this. I know for a fact that they genuinely care about Ben as a character, and I've seen their writing about Ben getting a happy ending. But the catch is, Lenin is also a fairly private person, and they don't often share their work with others unless they're close with them. Edit: Mb, I got this wrong. Lenin was new to the fandom and just started making posts about it. The context was something they provided in Ruby’s old server, but hadn’t shared with others yet.

So since she has no frame of reference, this is where Cat misinterprets the post as a genuine attack on Ben's character. (Double edit: I’m not trying to defend Cat’s behavior here. My point is, I don’t think she’s a monster)

Everyone who knows of Cat knows she's an extremely defensive person, especially when it comes to Ben. So she takes Lenin's comments seriously, making a response siting multiple canonical sources about how Ben is a good love interest.

Now, personally, I think it's reductive to label people as "deranged" or "unhinged" for being attached to a character. This entire drama was centered around ableism, and it's fairly hypocritical to overlook how she's been treated—not just here, but broadly. She's given little to no charity because she's "weird" about Ben. I don't mean to compare, but looking back, it seems that Cat was treated... like she was insane. Just because few people used the words, doesn't mean she wasn't treated like a psycho. It's the kind of hypocritical leftist thought of, "ableism is wrong, (except when someone's being the wrong kind of neurodivergent.)" And I'm not here to diagnose her, but you don't need a diagnosis to understand that, when someone behaves differently, they shouldn't be treated like they're freaks.

But of course, as people will argue, it's mostly about the harm someone does. And people say Cat caused a lot of harm.

So I'm going to say something. And people will almost certainly disagree, but if you have receipts, I'm more than happy to see them! I'd love to, I'm more than willing to be proven wrong!

However, from what I've seen,

She has never made a post attacking a specific person.

All her posts are about taking an argument and breaking it down. Her primary goal isn't to harass anyone, it's to defend Ben.

People talk about harassment campaigns. People often say, "Cat and co."

But, despite everything, she's... shockingly... absent.

She makes a point. She will argue that point. But if things go into ad hominins, or ultimately go nowhere, she will block you. Like she had me blocked, for the longest time.

There were harassment campaigns, but it wasn't her.

Again, people referenced "Cat and co."

So who was co?

Omnicrom was the one who caused this to become something bigger. Omnicrom was the one who never blocked anyone, Omnicrom was the one who called people pieces of shit in human skin, Omnicrom is the one who has a massive harassment post as their pinned post.

But Omnicrom and Cat are friends, right?

Well.

Omnicrom's blog is FULL of them reblogging and replying to Cat's posts. But what's fascinating is, Cat almost never replies back. Cat rarely talks to them, at least publicly.

So if they're not close, then why did Cat never call out Omni's behavior? Well, think about it. What other allies does Cat have? Even if she doesn't care for them, who else is regularly treating her with any kind of civility?

Why would she go out of her way to alienate one of the only people in the fandom treating her in any way that's halfway decent, especially when everyone else thinks she's a monster?

I know I probably don't have the full story. I know there's a lot of pieces that I'm missing. But I think I know enough to confidently say that Cat has been given the shit end of the stick, and a lot of shitty things that other people did have been unjustly pinned on her. It's obvious that Cat has a story behind her, that there's a reason she grew claws. Call me a bleeding heart, but I think she deserves more charitability than she was given.

[ben-10-setting-omnicrom]

I mean tbf it wasn't really a trial against him in specific but on if he illegally violated the Multiversal Preservation Act from unregulated reality warping by remaking the universe.

He absolutely was guilty of that so I wouldn't necessarily say they were wrong for voting the way they did, if anything it's comforting to (yet again) confirm that no matter who you were you'd be treated the same under cosmic law.

The punishment for the first offense was only 5 Teydenite each for Belicus and Serena after all. Tho tbf Ben DID think the universe was at stake if he lost.

Everytime I rewatch Ben 10 I realise just HOW MANY lives Ben really saved... and it makes the trial scen so much more agitating- like after ALL Ben did???? He was willing to DIE at age 15 or 16 just to let free the ultimate forms of his aliens???? He recreated the universe for THEM which mind you is WHY he was even on trial in the first place???? The diamondhead planet owe him their lives???? Im so-

Hoes ain't loyal man

[picturejasper20]

Listen, i do like Ben 10 as the next guy but getting mad over Adventure Time getting a movie and not Ben 10 (which was live action by the way) kinda ignores how Ben 10 doesn't have had much relevance nor impact in the latest years in contrast to Adventure Time, which has been like the most impactful animated series in 2010's decade

[metaforth]

Edit: Adding a note because I'm noticing the correction by @crypticsposting isn't being included in reposts, I'm aware Wes Craven wasn't a writer on the NOEM reboot. He was credited despite having no direct involvement in the film. It was written by Wesley Strick and Eric Heisserer. It doesn't really effect my point so I'm not gonna go back and edit the entire post but I'm just noting here now, I know about the mistake.

BAD PEOPLE CAN BE CREEPS.

People on this hellsite seem to forget this very often when it comes to fictional characters but a villain being a creep doesn't mean the writer is pro-creeps. Infact, the fact they made the villain a creep implies quite the opposite.

Like back when that Nightmare in Elmstreet reboot that everyone hated (and that I think was actually pretty good) came out and turned the subtext of Freddy being a pedophile into domtext some people acted like that meant Wes Craven is a creepy weirdo? Because he decided that the horrible man who murdered kids is also a horrible man who touched kids? No one claimed that him making the original movies means he's pro-child murder. Why does him making Krüger, the exact same character, a pedo (or at least making it much more clear he's a pedo) mean Craven is a pedo?

The cognitive dissonance is so strange.

And to be clear, whether it makes Craven a creep and whether it's a good decision are separate issues. I personally don't mind the change but I understand why people find it unnecessary and a'little weird. It fits the darker and more serious tone of the film but that doesn't mean you have to like the decision. But, whether or not you do, I don't feel it reflects on Wes Craven as a person.

Now admittedly, the people saying that choice makes Craven creepy were a very small but vocal lot. I'm saying this because that sentiment is one I see a lot, especially on this site. That anytime a writer makes a character do a thing, that means the writer support whatever that thing is, even though obviously that's not generally true. I don't think George Lucas is pro-planet-explodination after all.

Just a very strange trend that makes me really hate the writing discourse this site sometimes.

[cervinae-canine]

Lacey has a new Twitter account https://x.com/princesssyurio?t=BNy8F0ylnNWsRy4dNx2MMw&s=09

i checked to see if it's actually new and it is. If you have twitter, block her.

[ben-10-setting-omnicrom]

I HATE THIS CLAIM SO MUCH lmao.

Like not only does it make sense that Ben isn't entirely consistent between episodes (teenagers are notorious for being flighty personality wise) but the changes and shit he goes through make perfect sense in context.

Context fucking matters lol. People are acting like Ben's character flat out does 180° turns every episode. It doesn't.

It's as perfectly consistent as anyone else's personality and mannerisms irl.

To expect anyone, let alone a fucking teenager, to remain stagnant personality and mannerisms wise is insane.

That's literally not how people function.

This isn't even just basic psychology or sociology (I mean it IS but that's besides the point) it's just a general being alive thing.

Ben's character is neither inconsistent or constantly back sliding.

Why do people act like it's impossible to pay attention to shit? It's a fucking kid's cartoon not rocket science. It's literally made to be understood by children, a large part of why (for example) Ben has multiple episodes per series where he states what a Hero is, does, and why they do what they do.

Superhero media by and large are all basically morality tales set in different settings.

This is literally the most basic of basic media literacy.

you are funny I love your works🫶🏻just wanted to know that after all the fics you have wrote regarding ben do you agree that he's the most inconsistent character in the franchise?tbh it makes me upset that many people in the fandom kinda don't like ben as his human character because of his constant differences in his behaviour,it feels like the writers couldn't decide how to exactly write him like one minute he's funny and another minute he's serious in the shows,it's one of the biggest issues in the whole fandom so what do you say?

Look. Listen. Ben 10 is a franchise that spans four series, four movies, a dozen games on various platforms, several comic series, and it has several dozen writers across its lifespan.

Is Ben inconsistently written sometimes? I'm sure! It would be literally impossible for him to not be.

Overall, Ben is not. If you have a specific grievance with a scene or behavior between episodes, that would be more helpful! Because this nebulous "Ben is inconsistent" claim is as vague as it gets and entirely unconstructive.

In-universe, Ben is a teenager. He has trauma. He has flaws. He has growing to do. He changes. God forbid.

But if you really think Ben is inconsistently written, you can always try a shorter show by a more solid writing team... or try rewatching the show with your eyes open this time.

[far-from-fran]

So, I just finished rewatching Ben 10: Alien Force season 1. And, it was good. A lot more hit or miss than I remembered, but still pretty good. The lows were low, but the highs were high. You know what I mean?

I might watch season 2 tomorrow.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Is attachment always bad?

All the discourse about attachment being love or not and the “greater good” in the SW fandom has gotten me thinking about Ben 10. Specifically the Ultimate Kevin and Dagon arcs from Ultimate Alien. I sort of used the former as a pro attachment story in a discussion with a pro Jedi blog a while back, that I since deleted. It can definitely be read as a rebuttal of “kill one person for the greater good” and both arcs are an example of love saving someone from evil.

The Ultimate Kevin arc is one of the most controversial in the show, particularly Ben’s decision to kill Kevin with there being a lot of debate over whether it was OOC for him to do so. Ben is normally the Luke type character who tries to save everyone with Kevin and Gwen being the Han and Leia of the group. However, after repeatedly failing against Aggregor which led to Kevin having to absorb the ultimatrix, driving him insane and causing him to go on a rampage, Ben believes destroying Kevin is what’s best, blaming himself for Kevin mutating and Grandpa Max, who’s the Obi Wan/Uncle Ben type mentor in this show, agrees with it as the only “responsible move”.

Gwen, who’s Ben’s cousin and Kevin’s girlfriend, is the only one with faith in him and wants to save him. Talking to him fails but she is able to enlist the help of their friends to build a machine to cure Kevin. Her love for Kevin was what saved his life as Ben was prepared to kill him after a brutal battle and she managed to convince him to let her try. Kevin was cured, he and Ben quickly reconciled and the aliens Aggregor had absorbed who Kevin drained the power from were also restored to life. Some could say this wasn’t attachment but Gwen’s love for Kevin saved his as well as multiple lives despite everyone telling her to let him die for the “greater good”.

The other arc in question is the Dagon arc. Once again, Ben is faced with a test of spirit. Vilgax, who’s kind of like the emperor in this story, tries to manipulate Ben into using the sword, Ascalon, and the power of Dagon he absorbed to remake the universe in his image. Wipe out anyone he sees as evil. One could use the “greater good” argument to say he should destroy all evil, but what would that do to one’s soul? Ben does end up letting go of the power but he does that because of his love for the people in his life.

Julie, his girlfriend, gets him to stop and think about what he’s doing, pointing out that he can’t force his answers on everyone. Ben reflects on his journey throughout Alien Force/Ultimate Alien and the people he’s met along the way. Making his decision, he only uses the power to turn the esoterica back to human and rejects it. Had he abused the sword, he could have become a dictator, obsessed with order, but his love for his girlfriend, cousin and best friend convinced him to let go and realize he can’t strip free will from anyone, even the villains.

Some will respond that these are examples of selfless love and not attachment but are they really? Gwen was willing to throw her life away to save Kevin despite him attacking their friends and becoming extremely dangerous. Julie’s refusal to let Ben be corrupted was what saved him. People will say attachment isn’t love and it’s selfishness. One could argue Julie and Gwen were being selfish but were doing so because they didn’t want their partners to be executed or corrupted. Watching this as well as movies like Weathering With You and Across The Spider-verse begs the questions, is attachment always just greedy and can it save people’s lives or souls? And is it really fair to sacrifice one person who may mean everything to someone else to save the world?

[ben-10-setting-omnicrom]

What a coincidence lol this post of mine was recently liked and it goes over how fucking stupid and wrong that take is.

the thing about Ben's character being "reset" is like the weirdest conspiracy theory in this fandom

[ben-10-setting-omnicrom]

I keep seeing people say Ben's character constantly regresses or that he acts like his 10 year old self post season 2 of Alien Force and that's objectively wrong lmao. The series goes over this explicitly multiple times. It explains why he acts arrogant and treats things like a joke.

I fucking hate this take lmao. He never reverted. There's a whole fucking Omniverse episode of 11 year old Gwen being freaked out about 11 year old Ben being mature because his 16 year old mind was in that body at the time.

People who say this and believe it have frankly little to no media literacy or know how teenagers work.

Ben's characterization makes perfect sense in the context of the series.

He was only that mature because he literally had no other choice and saw his grandpa die right in front of him. By the 3rd season he not only knows Max is alive and thus able to help, but he's stopped universal omnicide by the Highbreed.

So obviously once he has more of a support network he can finally relax and be less hyper vigilant. This continues into Omniverse were there's a whole fully staffed Plumber base to help out on Earth now and he's seen so much shit that basically nothing fazes him.

Like Ben LITERALLY SAYS in the Forge of Creation episode that the reason he acts arrogant and jokes is to distract himself from what if scenarios on what could happen if he fails and make sure he doesn't freeze when the going gets tough.

"Everything's not a game.

What we do is important.

If you can't see that, maybe you are just a kid." Kevin

"You think I don't know?

When it's hero time, if I mess up, somebody could die.

From what you told me, if we mess up this time, everybody could die.

....

Maybe that's too much to have in your head when you have to win.

Maybe if I pretend everything's a big joke, when the time comes, I'll be able to do what I have to do." Young Ben

"Is that why you're so arrogant all the time... because you're scared?" Gwen

"No. I'm actually oblivious." Teen Ben

People with those opinions are objectively wrong lol.

Ben doesn't revert to a 10 year old personality wise.

Multiple episodes EXPLICITLY point this out.

The reason Ben learns the same lessons again is because it's a long running kids cartoon. Obviously they're going to go over stuff like what makes a hero multiple times.

All superhero media, most media in fact, are just different flavors of morality tales in different settings.

[dapper-lil-arts]

i wonder how you figure that when ben 10 is probably way stronger than saitama (assuming he has the omnitrix like human ben can prob throw hands to some extent but he's still like. a Regular Kid or Teen like that) like once he straight up failed to save the universe from being annihilated, became the only thing to survive that, and just. Made a new universe that's almost exactly the same to replace the old one. just casually

sigh there's always some discourse of people going "I bet this guy is stronger than saitama" you don't get it. Satiama is the bugs bunny of shonen fights. He will win every fight ever no matter what it is, because it is funny. He probably would not puncha kid, but by default hes the winner of any scenario because that's the damn rules of the funy!

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

I feel like people wanted this to be a show about a communist revolution punching up against the system but that wasn’t Rebecca’s vision. In real life, Bismuth being angry at her oppressor and Andy being booted for his behavior would be justified but it was meant to be a show about restorative justice and the idea that anyone is capable of change. A wish fulfillment story for LGBTQ people who have been abused and rejected for refusing to conform to convince their families to change and realize they could know them.

Also, the Highbreed arc in Ben 10 Alien Force had a similar ending and it was considered the peak of that show by most of the fandom. Unlike the diamonds who were an allegory for abusive families, the Highbreed actually were an allegory for white supremacists. Yet, no one called Dwayne McDuffie a fascist or white supremacist for redeeming them or for having Ben befriend one of them and heal their whole race. Rebecca took a lot of inspiration from magical girl anime like Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena which have similar themes to SU and why Steven is very idealistic and pacifistic. It’s not because she’s a fascist or abuse apologist.

ok challenege accepted. what do you think about the "the diamonds were redeemed" discourse

people who still parrot that talking point are just willfully ignorant. the show never portrays the diamonds as "redeemed" after change your mind, aside from spinel everyone outside of homeworld is either peacefully keeping their distance from the diamonds or in case of steven, still actively despises them for what they've done. having them work to fix the damage they've done to gemkind for the next.... however long it's gonna take is a much more fitting narrative resolution to them than just outright killing them. because if you killed them, not only would that not be satisfying, it would still not have fixed the systemic issues homeworld had. so.... pay attention!!

[dia-draws]

Binding thread au

Heads up any and all of this is subject to change as I grow the idea and fledge it out but this is what it is for now. Y’all are welcome to ask abt it!

Everyone but Sally is over 18 (if I did the math right but that’s the intention) no ship war discourse under this pls and thank you💕

(1/21/25 edit) gonna have ticciwork be end game and ticcijeff just be a fling.

Hopefully I got everyone lol it’s a lot I feel fucking insane rn looking at this

Friends:

Ej & Liu

Ej & Toby

Liu & Jane

Liu & Helen

Nina & Ben

Lulu & Kate

Cody & Ben

Cody & Nat

Cody & Helen

Toby & Kate & Brain & Tim

One sided Ann towards Kate

Bffs:

Ann & Lulu

Jeff & Ben

Nina & Nat & Toby

Tim & Brian

Complicated:

Sally has complicated feelings about all the others as a ghost stuck at 10 but is technically one of the oldest.

Liu has mixed and very complicated feelings toward his brother

EJ’s feelings toward Dina is because she reminds him of his sister but she keeps trying to kill him

Dislike/hate:

Jeff & Jane

Ben and Helen

Toby & Cody

Dina toward EJ

Tim toward Jeff

Flings: (oh god there’s so many what have I done)

Ann & Dina

Ann & Lulu

Ann & Jane

EJ & Liu

EJ & Toby

Jeff & Ben

Jeff & Toby

Nina & Jane

Nina & Cody

Nina & Toby

Nina & Kate

Jane & Lulu

Cody & Ben

Cody & Kate

Cody & Helen

Nat & Toby

End goal:

Ann & Jane & Lulu

EJ & Liu

Nat & Toby

Nina & Kate

Cody & Helen

Tim & Brian

[foolsocracy]

With all the age discourse around Spider-Man Noir right now, I thought I’d compile parts of the comic that imply his age. I want to state that this pulling from his 2009-2010 comic run before the time skip, specifically the first volume. The spiderverse movie has taken a lot of liberties with the characters, so it is very possible that what Peters age is in 1933 in the comics is NOT what his age is in 1933 in the movies.

Peter’s age is not directly stated in his 1st comic run (I can’t speak for the 2020 ones because it has been a while since I read them, plus there’s like a 10 year jump). It IS however heavily implied that he is young. So much so that you can’t seem to go more than a page without someone referencing it.

Like, these all happen in the same scene. The writers beat you over the head with it.

In this issue alone Peter is called both “son” and “sonny” once, “boy” twice, and “kid” 8 times. Outside nouns, he is also referred to as young, and when Urich brings him to The Black Cat, Felicia calls it “babysitting.” Urich also asks Peter if he is “allowed out after midnight” but after some research I can’t seem to find any evidence of NYC having juvenile curfews at this point in time, though they did exist in lots of towns in the late 1800s and early 1900s because of child labor laws. I think this instance is just Pete just being young and an adult being concerned about his well-being.

It is also mentioned in this volume, and again in Eyes Without a Face (vol 2), that Peter wants to go to college in the future and is currently studying & saving up money to do so. This alone doesn’t necessarily mean he’s under 18 as there isn’t a max age to apply for college, plus Peter comes from a poor family during the Great Depression. It wouldn’t surprise me if he started college later than usual because of that (lack of funds & catching up due to not being in school/working).

There is other evidence that does imply he is under 18 though— he’s too young to drink alcohol!

Spider-Man Noir Vol 1 issue 1 starts in January 1933 before jumping back three weeks to December 1932 where Ben Urich meets Peter Parker

It is during December 1932 that he meets Felicia Hardy who owns the speakeasy The Black Cat. Prohibition is still in place and won’t be overwritten until a year later in December 1933. It is important to note that before Prohibition was instated, the drinking age in New York was 18 years old. That law is what the characters reference when they discuss drinking age. And most importantly, Peter doesn’t deny the fact that he’s too young to drink. He just snarks back in true Parker fashion

This is the most concrete evidence there is towards Peter being under 18 in the noirverse. It can even be argued that Peter is under 17 with how easily Felicia picks up on the fact that he’s underage (and that she does so from a distance might I add, as seen in the ‘babysitting’ panel).

There is also a panel where JJJ refers to Peter as an “orphan.” By definition, an orphan is a kid under 18. This is JJJ, so this can be taken with a grain of salt as he loves good ol hard-hitting words. When people speak they don’t always use words by their exact definitions; sometimes if you’re young and your parents are dead, JJJ is going to label you an orphan even if ur a legal adult lol. But if you take this at face value it’s definitely another indicator that Peter is under 18.

TLDR; Spider-Man Noir from his 2009-2010 comic run is most likely under 18, and can be argued to be 15-16+. If not that, then is definitely college aged or younger.