#but I came out of TFA thinking rey and finn were cute

[bookishdaze]

I gotta share something that's gonna sound so ridiculous, and I'm self-aware enough to know that this is me being very gullible, but I just HAVE to spit this out somewhere. Plus, I think it's hilarious.

So I just came back from watching Civil War. I went through like 3 mini heart attacks during that movie by the way.

Anyways, we got a KOTPOTA trailer beforehand, and ya wanna know what my mother said?

"Creo que el changuito se va enamorar de la humana." That's Spanish for "I think the little monkey is gonna fall in love with the human."

And listen. LISTEN. The last time I took a general audience member (my cousin) to watch the first movie in a trilogy from a popular scifi franchise (The Force Awakens) and who had never seen any of the previous movies, I KID YOU NOT they turned to me and told me that they felt something going on between Rey and Kylo. Fast forward 2 years later when the sequel came out AND THEY WERE RIGHT.

For those who don't know, 99% of the theories about Rey at the time were of her being a Skywalker, which would make Rey and Kylo related. Yet my cousin CLOCKED it. My cousin had the gift of PROPHECY.

"Don't be ridiculous. That was ONE time." I don't care. You don't understand. After that experience, I'll believe so many things at this point.

[protectwoc]

why all reylos are racist

y’all can go ahead and cancel me now because some of you are not going to like what i have to say and i am completely okay with that.

this recent gq interview with john boyega has incensed me. hearing all the things he went through, from disney and from “fans” and with no support from anyone… i’m livid. sometimes when i think about it for too long i start shaking, i’m so furious. and the response from the reylo fandom has infuriated me to a degree i honestly didn’t know was possible.

some of you may have seen my recent tumblr rampage. it’s reylo bullying hours here on my blog, and i’m not sorry either. one person threatened to post screenshots of my comments, which like… okay? i know what the fuck i said, it wasn’t that long ago. in fact i was going to include the screenshots in this post right here, but they blocked me before i had the chance. sorry. i’m sure somebody has them. anyway…

over the past two days in the star wars fandom we have seen something unprecedented: an outpouring of support for john boyega. both reylos and anti-reylos have joined forces to voice support for john in the wake of the gq interview (and the blm protests, let’s be real, some of y’all would not have given half a fuck if it wasn’t suddenly cool to be antiracist). and this showing of unity is one of the most rage-inducing things i’ve ever seen in a fandom (which is saying something; i have seen some shit).

reylo fandom, full offense intended, but where the fuck do you get off? you’re supporting john now? where was this support when tfa came out and you couldn’t stand the thought of him next to your white-girl-self-insert? where was it when tlj came out and your boy ryan completely sidelined him? where was it earlier this fucking year when y’all twisted a harmless joke (like yall haven’t spent years writing reylo-throne-room-sex-meta BULLSHIT) and ignored the vile racist shit coming from your own fav’s mouth? but you’re supporting him now? now that being antiracist is trendy? fuck outta here with that bullshit.

your fandom is the reason for the vast majority of the absolutely subhuman treatment john has endured over the last few years. your fandom influenced ryan (yes i know what his name is) to write tlj the way he did, you have behaved indefensibly here on tumblr.hell writing and drawing and fantasizing about all sorts of racist bullshit, and y’all have STAYED in his twitter mentions spewing hatred seven ways to sunday. but NOW, without a shred of self-reflection, you’re supporting him? now his experiences are valid?

the way that your fandom refuses to take accountability for its actions makes me see red. y’all stay on some “not all reylos” nonsense and i am SICK OF IT. i’m only gonna say this once, and i want you to hear me: you cannot be a reylo and be “antiracist”. you cannot participate in a fandom that has behaved the way yours has and say “blm, uwu acab.” you can’t. like do you think black people are dumb? that we can’t see right through you? we can.

“but rae,” i hear you whining. “you’re gonna say just because i like two characters together i’m a racist?” and of course not. that would be ludicrous. i think just because you knowingly engage and participate in a fandom that has racism encoded in its dna, you’re a racist. i think because y’all are in bed with racist harassers, racist trolls, and racist content creators, you’re a racist. that’s what the fuck i think. y’all lost the right to “it’s just a ship” me the instant you dragged john boyega into this.

here’s an example: i watched tfa about three days after it came out. i watched the first half, saw the obvious relationship set up between finn and rey, and thought, “aw, cute.” then i watched kylo and rey fight, watch him offer to teach her, and thought, “... interesting.”

when i got home i checked tumblr for finnrey content, saw the outpouring of love from black fans, all the cute fanart and fics blooming, and smiled. then, slowly, guiltily, i searched “reylo.”

BOOM. racism. the things i saw in the tag that night are tattooed on my brain. reylos rejoicing about the obvious rey/kyle pairing because “sw would never put her with that monkey finn”. calling him an “oaf”, “useless”, “bumbling”, “stupid”. reylos joking about how “when they talked about the Dark side, [they] didn’t think they meant that kind of dark.” “woke” reylos pretending to ship stormpilot in an obvious ploy to get finn away from kylo. and in between all of that, cute ship art. fun fics. talented gif makers. and nobody saying shit about the reprehensible behavior going on in their tag.

reylo is built on a foundation of racism. from that first week, racism has been woven into the fabric of your fandom, and it’s been going unchecked. and i don’t mean calling out other reylos. that’s not enough. i mean taking actual steps. y’all have been sitting in a cesspool of racism for five years, and its time for you to get the fuck out or shut the fuck up about being an “ally”. y’all need to leave this fandom.

don’t agree? here’s another story. in 2017, when i still watched supergirl (before i grew taste) i shipped karamel. for those of you who don’t know, karamel is the ship of kara zor-el (supergirl) and mon-el, her second love interest. when supergirl was moved to the cw for its second season, the decision was made to abruptly end her romance with jimmy olsen, played by mecahd brooks (a black man) and replace him with mon-el, played by chris wood, a white man, who was revealed to be, among other things, an alien slaveowner, as well as a playboy and all-around terrible person. and i shipped them. look, i’m not defending myself, but i never really bought the chemistry between jimmy and kara. even though mon-el’s introduction and the way that they carelessly disregarded kara’s feelings for jimmy made me uncomfortable, i thought the way melissa played her attraction to chris wood was more believable (and again, i’m not defending myself, but they are now married so it’s not like i was wrong). so i shipped them. simple as that, right?

well, no. not really. because the inherent racism in the way the writers wrote out her admittedly sweet romance with a black man in favor of a white slaveowner jerk kept bothering me. and finally i decided that it made me too uncomfortable to participate in. i never really reblogged any karamel fandom stuff, but i completely divorced myself from the fandom. i stopped reading karamel fic, and i switched to reblogging exclusively jimmy/kara content until the fandom died out/i stopped watching. i made a choice that real life racism is more important to me than a fucking fandom or a ship, and then i acted accordingly. simple as that.

and i’m not saying you have to stop liking the reylo dynamic. i still like the chemistry between kara and mon-el. i’ve shipped problematic ships before (bamon comes to mind) and i don’t think there’s anything wrong with that (to a point). but there’s a difference between liking a ship dynamic and engaging and contributing to a fan culture of racism. you have to stop participating in the fandom. y’all are in bed with people indistinguishable from confederate-flag-waving-all-lives-matter-touting racists and you don’t feel the need to get out of that environment? there comes a certain point where you have to decide if fandom bullshit is more important to you than fighting racism, and unfortunately, reylos have chosen wrong. that, ladies and gentlemen, is why all reylos are racist, regardless of what they say. roll credits.

except i have more to say, so i’m gonna say it. first of all, i’m not trying to hold myself up as some kind of paragon of virtue. i’m not holier-than-thou because all my ships are “woke” or whatever. chemistry is subjective, and we’re all going to be attracted to different ship dynamics, and there’s nothing wrong with that in theory. what matters is the execution. i finally had to say one day, “you know, this ship and the racist baggage it carries is actually less important to me than battling systemic racism on every level, including the fandom level”. y’all thought being antiracist was gonna be easy? that you wouldn’t have to make some actual changes, to make some actual sacrifices? sorry not sorry to disappoint. and if i, a normal-ass person with flaws and problematic thinking that i’m still dealing with and the whole ine yards, can make that decision, then other people should be required to as well.

(what really irks me is that the karamel fandom wasn’t even really that bad! i definitely could have gotten away with being a karamel stan in 2017. thankfully the supercat and supercorp shippers were doing the lord’s work and bullying them into submission (don’t think i’m letting y’all off the hook either, y’all have got some racism to deal with as well but that’s an essay for another day) but like most of the racism happened at the writing level; the fandom itself wasn’t engaging in racist clownery on the regular. but like the reylos are. y’all see racist bullshit coming from your neighbor, fav fic writer, artist, gif maker, whatever, and don’t say shit? don’t feel the need to distance yourself from them? gtfoh.)

i made this argument earlier when i was on my rampage (which i’m still on btw so don’t clown in my inbox, you will get your shit rocked) but i’m going to make it again because i feel like its important to note. when i pointed out that existing in the reylo fandom while you are aware of its racism makes you complicit in that racism, a white reylo told me earlier that (paraphrasing, my memory’s not as good as it used to be and i did mention that they’d blocked me) “you don’t solve a problem like systemic racism by ignoring it. leaving the fandom would be allowing it to happen.” when i pointed out that that’s police officer rhetoric almost verbatim, she (a white reylo) admonished me (a black woman) not to compare police brutality to a “ship war.” lmao.

look, clearly y’all need a refresher on what “systemic” means. it means, quite simply, that there are systems, large and small, allow for racism to exist, and it also means that allowing for racism to exist on the small scale means expecting it on a large one. like you think police officers spring fully formed from the head with racist ideals already ingrained? no! they learn it and learn to justify it with “well just because my friend made a racist joke doesn’t make me a racist” and “just because i laughed at my friend’s using a racist term in my video game doesn’t make me a racist” and “just because my friend is a racist doesn’t mean i’m a racist” and then we have people watching their coworkers kneel on a man’s back for 8 minutes with no remorse. i’m not gonna solve police brutality by fighting reylos on tumblr, but fandom racism is real racism with consequences on our world, and i don’t tolerate ANY type of racism. and the fact that you are so willing to not just tolerate it but justify it should say something to you.

and not all reylos are like this. similar to cops, good reylos don’t last. i have seen people grow so disgusted by the racism in the reylo fandom that they publicly turned their backs on it, and those reylos i respect. you’ve heard of “the only good cop is an ex-cop” well get ready for “the only good reylo is an ex-reylo”.

(and also like far be it from me to justify a cop but one could at least say they have their livelihoods to think about (not like they couldn’t just pick a nonmurderous profession but i digress) but you reylos can’t even choose between taking a stance against the hateful and unjustified bullying of a man who had the audacity to… get a job (?)... over a ship? come on now.)

the point of all this is, for all their posturing about “being antiracist” and “fuck 12” and “support john boyega”, reylos have decided that a relationship between two fictional people is more important than all the black and brown people who are hurt by that decision and the consequences of that decision. and before y’all pull some “b-but there are POC reylos!” (stop fucking using poc as an adjective, its a noun, it stands for person of color, please use it as such) internalized racism is a thing. busting out your token “reylo of color” (see how easy that was?) is not going to change my mind. all reylos are complicit in the racism of their peers, and being complicit makes you culpable. full stop.

and that is why the public support of john boyega from the reylo fandom has me seeing red. renounce your fandom or keep that man’s name out of your mouth. anyway, this was long and ranty and entirely stream-of-consciousness and i’m refusing to edit it so it’s probably completely incomprehensible to anyone besides me but if you made it this far thanks for reading ig. all reylos are racist, blm, fuck 12, acab, stan john boyega, don’t clown in my inbox unless you’re coming to bully me for being a karamel shipper, which i deserve (or do, i couldn’t give less of a fuck). good night.

[dragonrebelrose]

TROS Reaction 12-20-19. AKA my 6 page long dissertation about why I really disliked TROS.

I didn’t think it would be this bad. I truly thought there would be some gleaming moments of redeemability, but no. It’s one...giant...shit-show. What a horrible blow to the end of not only the sequel trilogy and these characters but to everything that came before. It really takes skill to mess up this badly.

A little something nice though, was the guy I sat next to. Really nice (and cute too ^-^ ) and he offered me some of his candy (Buncha Crunch! My favorite!) before the film started and then throughout the film because he said, “Well this is consolation for having to sit next to me.” Aw I couldn’t have asked for a better seat partner, I didn’t even know him! And then when the film ended he knew I didn’t take it well and I cried and shook through many moments and he offered the rest of his candy and I said, “Thanks, I think I need it.” I asked him what he thought overall and he said, “C-3P0 was pretty funny.” I said, “Yeah I agree. I actually knew everything that happened before I saw it, and I thought it was a mess.” He chuckled and said, “Me too, but I didn’t want to say anything in case you liked it.” I said, “Oh, no, I didn’t really like it. But I gotta be honest, Ben Solo didn’t deserve to die. That’s just my opinion.” I think he was surprised by that but didn’t disagree. He just kinda nodded or something and then we said goodbye and he left with his buddies, who also seemed pretty unenthused by the whole movie. Hopefully I gave him something to think about with my comment, but he was really nice and I’m glad he sat next to me.

Pessimism aside for now, I’ll start by listing the things I liked. I gotta be honest, there’s not much here.

Reylo is canon! But, in my opinion, it was handled pretty badly. Ben’s death is only the start of the problems for it, but more on that later.

C-3P0 is funny I guess. Yes he is annoying sometimes like usual, but not more so than other times.

D-O is freaking adorable. Out of everything good I’ve listed I have no qualms with this one. His manner is cute, his speaking is very funny, and his actions are just precious.

Babu Frik is very cute too, just perfect! Lovely little puppet! Don’t know why he was shoehorned in at the end battle but whatever. We never saw him again.

Maz is a puppet now? Okay, cool. Wish that would’ve been the case since the beginning. You had the technology JJ.

The music is good, when it’s given its own time to shine and be noticed. I feel like I barely noticed it was there because sound effects just drowned it out. Really wasted, but still good nonetheless.

Leia’s death and how it affected Ben. Wow. This was the first moment I truly cried. This was handled very well by Adam Driver, and then Maz saying “Goodbye, Princess.” Ouch, that got me.

Ben talking to the memory of his father! This is something I did not know was in the movie and boy am I glad I wasn’t spoiled for it! THIS is where the really hard tears and sobbing came. I was literally shaking and shivering trying to keep it in so as not to disturb everyone else. This. Part. Was. Perfect. Ben looks at him like he wants to say “I love you,” and Han says out loud “I know.” *crazy screaming and crying* Out of all the things they got wrong for Ben in this film, THIS they got right!

Ben Solo is the Solo boy we always wanted. Running in with a t-shirt, gun slinging, blasting opponents without even looking. THIS is a true son of Solo! But of course they give him no lines except “Ow.” THAT was a bad idea.

And that’s it. Yes those are the only things I even remotely liked, but I have to be honest, each one of these has some kind of problem attached to it which sours the real enjoyment.

On to what I disliked. Strap in lads, this is going to be a long ride.

1. The pacing. OH. MY. GOSH. SLOW. THE. FUCK. DOWN. For fucks sake I couldn’t even process what the hell was happening before we were on to the next thing! This was the biggest problem with the movie, BY FAR. Yes I know the story is terrible, we’ll get to that, but the pacing just completely took me out of the movie. I couldn’t feel invested in anything because it was all in one ear and out the other like ten-fold!

And this is part of the issue I have with how Reylo was handled. It. Felt. So. Rushed. And. Unfinished. There weren’t enough scenes with them and the scenes we did get were so fast and then over with that it felt like no progress was being made at all! It felt, for lack of a better word, unearned. And I know, that’s not really the case since they’ve had plenty of build-up in the last 2 films, but there wasn’t enough time with them spent NOT fighting and hating each other and opposing each other. Yes, I know, Kylo kept trying to get Rey to take his hand, but it doesn’t feel genuine because even Kylo feels out of character, and Rey too, big time. Now this isn’t the actor’s faults, they did what they could with the shitty story they were given, so I put all this blame at JJ’s desk.

In any case the overall film pacing was too fast, too much, too soon, too many things onscreen, too many things happening at once, not enough character, not enough motivation, not enough letting scenes breathe and just play out naturally. Everything felt forced for the sake of the “plot.” Oh we gotta get this thing, and then that thing, to get this thing, so we can defeat these guys! LET. US. BREATHE.

2. The story. My gosh, they couldn’t have picked a worse storyline to follow. Everything truly felt like it was written by a fanboy who wanted to retcon everything in TLJ, even down to the dialogue. Everyone keeps saying to Rey “You’re a Palpatine.” But it sounds SO strange, like nobody says things like this. I get it, it’s a space fantasy, they talk weird mumbo jumbo but it just sounds like a fanboy ghost wrote this. Like we gotta have everyone know now she’s a Palpatine! You’re a Palpatine! You’re a Palpatine! Palpatine heir! All bow down to the Palpatine! Give me a break.

3. Yeah, let’s talk about Palps. The old raisin himself. You know, I never really liked ROTS, but Palps was always a great thing about it. He was sinister, diabolical, he had a plan and knew what to do with it. But this Palps. *le heavy sigh* What a waste this was. For one thing, the lightning effects that lights up his face is really annoying, even for someone who doesn’t get seizures, I can’t even imagine what it’s like for those who do, I’m so sorry. And like, he has this whole legion of Sith followers? The fuck? Where the hell were these guys before? I’m sure they existed BEFORE the last Sith Lord died, right?

I digress. I have a question though: why does he want Rey so much? Why didn’t he try to get his son to take over? Wouldn’t that have been easier? Also, WHO DID HE FUCK TO GET A SON?? HOW DID HIS SON GET AWAY FROM HIM?? WHY DID HIS SON APPARENTLY TURN TO THE LIGHT?? THERE’S TOO MANY QUESTIONS HERE AND NO GOOD EXPLANATIONS. AND NO DISNEY, I DON’T WANT A 10-PART COMIC ON THIS. GO FUCK YOURSELVES.

The only interesting thing about Palps in this film is that his face gets melted off like a Raiders of the Lost Ark knock-off. He better not be coming back. Ever again.

4. And hey, while we’re on the subject, let’s talk about Rey’s parents. So apparently they’re both good people. *le sigh* But what kind of good people leave their daughter alone on a harsh and unforgiving planet with a blubber guy? And don’t tell me they didn’t know he was an abusive asshole, they LIVED on Jakku, they HAD to have known him, ESPECIALLY if they truly were junk traders, they would have DEALT with him. Oh, and apparently the “I’ll come back for you sweetheart, I promise” line is changed up a bit and given to her father after all. No. Screw that. That line was meant for Ben, I don’t care how petty this sounds, this is terrible. So yeah, fuck Rey’s parents, I don’t care how “good” you try to make their intentions, they’re badly shoehorned in and they screw up anyway. Next.

5. Ben’s story and his fate. So yeah, obviously I hate that Ben died, but more than that I hate how his story was handled here. It was so rushed, it didn’t feel as natural as it should have. It needed time to BREATHE. A lot of time! And I feel like they really shafted Kylo/Ben’s story off to the side to give more time to the hereby named GoldenTrio. (You know who I mean...we’ll get to them.) It really seemed like JJ didn’t even care about Ben’s fate anymore, and just kind of put it in as an afterthought. His death scene? Not even given a fucking minute to process because WE GOT TO PARTAY. All in all, his whole story is so terribly sad that I don’t even know if I can watch TFA or TLJ anymore, knowing how it ends.

6. The GoldenTrio. Oh for fucks sake, JJ, you should have killed Poe off when you had the chance, because now the story is all about THEM. Boom! They’re literally front and center in the movie. I don’t even think Reylo gets as much screen time as them. I mean really, Ben’s death scene and Rey’s grieving gets 1.5 minutes, tops. GoldenTrio reunion and threesome hugging? 5 fucking minutes of nothing but them hugging. I’m not even exaggerating. (Okay maybe I am, but it’s given more focus and time to “breathe” than Ben Solo’s fucking death. I’m getting a headache remembering it.)

Hey, remember in ESB and ROTJ where the trio got split up and had their own story lines and own purposes to fulfill without each other hanging around (apart from Han and Leia because their story lines are interconnected)? Yeah, I miss that too.

Also, Rey keeps wandering off being “pulled” to something, and every...single...time, Finn is like “Rey, wait! Poe we gotta get her! rEy CoMe BaCk!!” This happens at least 5 times, pretty consecutively too. It gets old real fast. Boy do I miss the days of TLJ where people got to be away from each other to discover new things without interference.

Which leads me to another point: They tried to shove FinnRey in here while shitting on FinnRose quite literally. What. A. Slap. To. The. Face. This is horrible treatment, and I hope Kelly will never do another interview for Lucasfilm again. She doesn’t deserve this.

7. The Ending™. Wow. What a way to show that your characters haven’t progressed at all by showing them in the same environment that they started in. Let’s do an overview: Rey starts out alone on a desert planet and meets a droid that isn’t hers. Rey ends up alone on a desert planet with a droid that still isn’t hers. PROGRESSION 101!! *slaps forehead* I mean, don’t even get me started on the fact that Ben isn’t there with her and that literally one half of her soul is gone (how is she not in agony right now??), but then to add more salt to the wound she’s just like “oh yeah I must be the rightful successor to the Skywalker name, even tho I’m a Palps...makes sense to me!” Fuck off. You don’t deserve that title after hating Luke for not doing what you wanted him to do and for hating Ben for most of this movie too.

Can we also acknowledge that this is THE ABSOLUTE WORST POSSIBLE WAY TO END A 40 YEAR SAGA AND FAMILY LEGACY? So, Palps had a kid who had a kid. This kid is then deemed a-okay by the family that was affected most by Palps and they welcome her like the sunshine child she is, yet shun their own offspring for being damaged goods because he was being manipulated by said Palps. Okay, it’s official now, everyone’s an asshole...except Ben. He seemed to be the only one to understand his faults and right his wrongs and not be an idiot. Then the kid who was abused and manipulated is killed because “reasons” or “problematic” or whatever and the offspring of Palps lives while the family that Palps manipulated is ultimately gone forever because it’s last descendant wanted to save the offspring of Palps out of the goodness of his heart. Now the offspring of Palps doesn’t even give a flipping thank you and steals their name. wHaT a SaTiSfYiNg EnDiNg!!! Someone gag me.

8. Luke’s X-Wing being raised out of the water and it’s in perfect working condition. What. The. Fuck. I don’t know if you guys realize this, but this completely undermines Luke’s arc in TLJ. That X-Wing was sunk and dead to show that he had no desire to return to the outside world. He was staying on the island. For good. And he buried that thing in water to make sure he couldn’t use it ever again, but it was still visible to him to remind him of his conviction if ever he questioned it. But no. That thing is a-okay and ready to fly. No need for parts, there’s no rust or any sea salt corrosion, ready to go skipper! This was just added for easy call-backs to ESB but boy this had absolutely 0 weight to it. I literally yawned or looked at my watch around this part thinking “oh my gosh isn’t it over yet?” Pretty much sums up my entire experience.

9. Rose got shafted to appease the fanboys. This one needs no further explanation or analysis, it just sucks and has no real reason to exist.

10. Luke was barely in it and offered not that great advice. Poor Mark. His performance really peaked with TLJ and never went back up.

11. Rey is suddenly the Avatar now? You can now talk to all previous Jedi’s who existed? What buffoonery is this? Oh, but Ben doesn’t get a single. fucking. word. from Anakin, the man he looked up to. I’m so tired right now. What’s left?

12. The message changed from “it doesn’t matter if you’re a nobody, you’re a somebody to me” to “you’re a somebody with a bad bloodline, but that doesn’t define you (except when it totally does)”. That sort of message would be fine if it had been the message since TFA, but it wasn’t. The message since TFA was “I’m a nobody, but I can become a somebody regardless of my lineage or my childhood.” Why change the message in the 11th hour? To appease fanboys. Literally anything that makes no sense in this movie can be attributed to fanboys. There’s so much contradiction and hypocrisy in this film from both the narrative and the characters that it’s insulting.

13. Hux was utterly shafted too. What a waste of a well built up and conniving little bastard who in the end gets shot for shock value and laughs. It’s like what TLJ did but way worse because he’s actually killed. Hux as the spy? Just no.

14. Jannah was kind of wasted too, not enough screen time. I get her and Finn kind of bonding over being ex-stormtroopers, but it’s not really delved into. Also the whole “nature vs. machinery” thing kinda briefly shows up at the big battle and feels unearned too, because there was nothing before in this movie or others to suggest there was a war between the two.

15. Poe is treated more as the heir to Leia than Ben is. Poe gets to fly the falcon and gets to wreck it up (dishonoring who it belonged to before), gets to be by Leia’s deathbed, etc. Not earned at all.

16. The pointlessness of random cameos or thrown in references. Not a single person in my theater noticed John Williams as the bartender, nobody pointed out or said anything about any reference from previous movies, it was silent.

17. What the hell was even the point of the whole “Dark Rey” vision? Oh, she shows her scary pointy teeth ala Bilbo style. No thank you.

18. Why the hell does it feel like these characters aren’t the characters from TFA and TLJ? They feel so different and it’s noticeable.

19. Finn is Force sensitive. Literally tacked on like nobody wouldn’t notice. We noticed JJ. We notice everything.

20. Rey and Kylo/Ben fighting for way too much of the film and their interactions. Not enough caring or understanding, not enough longing looks, it feels like their romance was almost cut from the film entirely.

21. Oh yeah, Rey floating at the beginning? Looked stupid as hell. And the “Be with me” line? I thought maybe, just maybe, she meant Ben, but no. She’s trying to reach “her past selves” like the fucking Avatar and she’s even floating rocks around like Aang did. Ugh.

22. Anything else? Oh yeah, this movie sucks completely and wholly...FOR NOT GIVING ONE FUCKING LINE OF DIALOGUE TO BEN SOLO AFTER HE HAD BEEN REDEEMED. HOW HEARTLESS CAN YOU BE THAT YOU LET HIM DIE WITHOUT SAYING ONE FINAL THING?!?! DAMN J.J. YOU’RE STUPID.

And that’s it. Kudos if you read the whole thing. I ramble a lot.

[starwarsepisodereylo]

How about instead of calling shippers racist for the people they ship, you just call out the racist shippers for their racist actions. I don’t know why we keep needing to have this conversation 5 years after The Force Awakens came out, but shipping reylo isn’t racist unless you ship it for racist reasons. I get that a lot of people really don’t like our ship still. And yes, I’ve spoken out and used my platform to call out the racists within this fandom and how they’ve behaved towards John especially, but that’s not the point of this post. The point is, I’ve never shipped reylo because I saw what potential FinnRey had, overlooked it because John is black, and thought Kylo Ren is the better match because he’s white. That’s just not a thing that happened for the vast majority of reylo shippers. If Kylo Ren was played by an actor of color, I would still ship Kylo and Rey. Why? Because I care about the writing and nuance. In TFA, Rey clearly wants Finn as a friend. It’s just how they’re written. Yes it was cute and yes he had a crush on her. But the writers chose to give the mystery, intrigue, and nuance to her relationship with Kylo. If you couldn’t see that in TFA (some people didn’t, 13 year old me did) then it’s clear in TLJ. I really don’t feel like citing 3 movies worth of evidence that Finn/Rey were really good well written friends who loved each other platonically, while reylo provided a more intriguing will they/ won’t they morally gray romantic prospect that they could actually examine and play with over the span of 3 movies. The reylo dynamic was just plainly more interesting than whatever could be made from how Finn and Rey were written. It has nothing to do with skin color (unless you want to argue that not enough poc are given major roles that make them love interests in the first place), and I’m frustrated that so much animosity has built up between fictional ships that I’m called a racist if I think Kylo should smooch Rey. Again, not ignoring the racism the actors have been subjected to by shippers, but simply reminding everyone that not shipping someone with a character of color isn’t racist if you personally believe the character others ship them with has more written chemistry with someone else who’s not their race.

[aegon]

it makes me so angry at how disney wasted finnrey. their narrative was all about belonging and looking forward not back, i get the appeal of enemies to friends to lovers but finnrey was just wasted and for what? k*lo dies, she ends up alone. they could’ve explored redemption with a sibling dynamic between r*ylo, romance wasn’t needed there. but you can’t have an interracial relationship in a disney film, and anyway a bad guy needs the promise of a cute girlfriend to pull him towards the light.

literally everyone I know who watched tfa when it first came out were so sure that finn and rey would get together - two people from two totally different walks of life, on the run, fighting against a fascist order, finding a family in each other, looking for a home, scared shitless yet still so brave, in waaaaay over their heads but still standing tall, like??? they are perfection????

instead of rey being some consolation prize for someone finding their lacklustre conscience, finn and rey worked off each other and built themselves up, they were a team, partners, always there for each other. for finn, rey was always rey - it had nothing to do with her power, nothing to do with what she offered him, and everything to do with who she was. he loved her and she loved him with or without the force.

I mean, isn’t that an amazing message? that you don’t need to be powerful to get someone’s attention? that you could be some scavenger somewhere, or some lost soul wandering in a desert, and you’d still find someone who sees the light in you? who thought you were special when everyone thought differently??

finnrey is literally the type of relationship that’s healthy enough for kids to aspire to. yes, enemies to lovers is a sexy trope - but what should we be promoting more? finding love with the friend who’s always looked out for you, or one where you hurt each other over and over until by some miracle, he sees the light?

I’m just so tired of seeing poisonous romances on tv. it’s 2020, and interracial relationships are still something we consider “progressive” or “groundbreaking” when it should be as normal as anything else. I just want a relationship that I can look at and think, “yeah, that’s what I want for myself too,” that I can show to my teenage cousin and say, “find you someone like that.” as young kids, we look towards the media we consume and the relationships around us to help us develop our own sense of what we want too. kids should be able to look towards one of the biggest franchises in the world and see something inspirational there.

especially in today’s age, the age of divisions, the age where racial and lgbt equality is still an issue: disney deciding that the whitest, most heteronormative ship should be validated despite its numerous issues is somehow more appealing than two realistic interracial romances is just.....honestly, I have no words. the fuck is wrong with them?? the fuck kind of message is that??? fuck me.

[disregardcanon]

day 9? i think of the perpetual star wars rewatch: the last jedi

1. canto blight looks pretty. i also think that rose’s backstory and reaction to that area was compelling, so it’s a shame that they did Zero with that because they let the racists win. 

the scenes there are also pretty engaging. 

2. i don’t like the last jedi as a follow up to the force awakens (because it. like. doesn’t follow that movie very well and shoves both finn and poe into roles that don’t suit their narratives, both of which are p racist decisions), but i will say that it’s a better movie than rise of skywalker. it might actually be a better MOVIE from a cinema and story telling standpoint than force awakens too. there are countless things that i don’t like about it, but this movie has a story to tell, themes to explore, and isn’t afraid to do new things. 

honestly, tfa, tlj and ros all feel like movies from a different trilogy. i WANT tfa trilogy the most, i feel like tlj trilogy would have been the most interesting, and the ros trilogy is just a hot fucking mess. 

3. the framing on the force bond thing is creative and cool. it’s not a plot thread i care for, but it’s at least well done here. 

4. i hate admiral hondo. there is no other way to phrase this. i hate her and the way that poe’s story was framed was racist and she’s a white feminist girl boss TM. i hate it i hate it i hate it

5. the framing of “the legacy of the jedi was hubris and blindness” is cool and interesting. i really don’t care for the luke characterization, but that could have been something interesting in a trilogy that was cohesive. 

6. i still don’t believe you that luke “i did everything within my power to bring my dickwad dad back from the dark side” would just. try to murder his nephew in his sleep cause he was giving off some bad vibes. 

7. i really DID like the rey nobody thing. if she wasn’t going to be a bio skywalker descendant then her just being Some Guy who the force chose was cool. if she had fought off kylo’s I Give Your Life Meaning and the reylo were shown to be unhealthy and he was the villain, and she was important because rey is a good person and strong with the force on her own. 

but no, we can’t have nice things. only palpatine fucking. 

8. the code breaker character is interesting. i remember liking him the first time around, and i still enjoy him now. i know he betrays them but like. i get it. he’s interesting. 

9. i FUCKING HATE HOLDO! like oh my god! if you have a plan to not get people killed fucking tell them! you don’t have to give them the information, but like. you have to tell people that you aren’t going to get them killed or they’re gonna do a fucking mutiny! poe was not in the wrong there!

10. even at his most compelling, kylo ren is. not compelling. like, this movie’s kylo is the most interesting but they completely yeeted his darth vader connection out the window and no one leveraged it for the narrative. wasted potential. 

11. dj (the hacker man) looks so funny in his little hat. i love it. also rose looks adorable in the first order outfit i love her. 

12. the confrontation with phasma hits better this time around. it’s not everything i’d hoped for or anything, but it’s better than nothing. 

13. like, ren killing snoke to become full villain as the inverse of vader killing palps to save luke? that was INTERESTING! but only if they would have followed through with kylo just being a villain. he wasn’t good in this movie! he was possessive and manipulative, and if deciding that he wasn’t worth it was the culmination of the reylo thing that could have been good. 

but noooooooooooooooooo we can’t have nice things in the star wars sequels

14. rey and kylo decimating all those guards and then the burning wreckage of the building looks cool. also, kylo’s a manipulative asshole and if we had done something with that it would have been so fucking cool. kylo! is! not! good! and giving him a half assed “my dad’s ghost came back so now i’m here being good” does not work.

rey and kylo pulling anakin skywalker’s lightsaber apart? his good side and his bad side? that’s interesting! too bad we didn’t like, do anything with that. 

15. .... was this post twilight of the apprentice? did they steal the mask broken over the eye bit from TWILIGHT OF THE APPRENTICE

16. the ice foxes are gorgeous and the porgs are cute. do like the new aliens in this one. 

17. the red salt set at the end is so pretty and distinctive. i love the image of the red coming up under the fighters. 

18. for real though you cannot put kylo ren at the helm of the first order because he killed his master and declared himself supreme leader one minute and then just go He’s Good Again Now the next. that is a villain. you wrote a villain. fucking deal with it. 

19. finn trying to be a suicide bomber didn’t make any sense, and the finnrose kiss thing didn’t make any sense. i don’t like that, and it still feels like they didn’t write a romance and then the writers went ROMANCE so that they could point at reylo and pretend that finn wasn’t set up as the love interest. 

20. i am really glad that luke and leia had at least one more scene, also luke saying “no one’s ever really gone” almost made me cry because CARRIE

21. kylo having every gun fire on luke and then luke standing there completely unscathed is such bde. also love the red smoke cloud

22. the luke projection thing was interesting, if nothing else. 

23. tlj finnrey hug is the last time that these movies ever gave me my juice there. 

24. the framing of luke fading into nothingness is pretty. i won’t say i love the choice but the shot is really pretty 

25. finn gently moving rose’s blanket is a nice shot. i don’t ship it but i do think they care about each other 

26. i have such intensely mixed feelings about this movie, y’all. it’s just uuuuuggggghhhhhhhh 

at least there’s some things i like about it vs like, ros, where i just like that they brought lando back and made hux a petty asshole who became a resistance spy just to get under ren’s skin. 

[serceleste]

My random TRoS thoughts part 7, having recently viewed it a third time!

61. I noticed that on Kijimi C-3PO essentially parrots back what Poe had said earlier about how important their mission was, when he’s resolving himself to let them wipe his memory. It was kind of sweet.

62. The rumor is JJ didn’t want to work with the story group, which is why we have things like “Poe was a spice runner and then he joined the Resistance” that Pablo Hidalgo had to fix, so I understand why, and I also understand that the movies were probably never going to match up 100% with the EU (Ben’s backstory is a clusterfuck), but having finished Resistance Reborn some things were really jarring. Like Poe’s convo with Zorii, where he’s so downspirited about their chances, after the plot of Resistance Reborn was “look at all these people who want to help”, and also introduced the idea that part of the reason no one came to their aid on Crait was because the FO was rounding up and/or killing Resistance sympathizers. There’s a way to establish that Zorii cares more than she lets on and to have her offer Poe emotional support without putting him in a different place than I think he would have been, given all that’s happened since TLJ.

63. I love so much that Finn and Poe team up to play Chewie in holochess, and that they always lose, and the whole cheating/we won’t turn it off thing, it’s so funny and cute.

64. Even after the lightspeed skipping debacle, Chewie still let Poe fly the Falcon after they rescued him. LOL. 

65. Ben’s last words are literally “ow”. Amazing. (We laughed so hard at that part, and I observed to my friend it was a combination of both Luke and Han.)

66. I love Rey’s emo hood. She only puts it up when she’s angsting on Ahch-To. <3

67. I just really love the full circle of Luke raising the X-wing when he couldn’t do it on Dagobah.

68. The Han-Ben scene really does things to me, and I love that it plays out like the version of the scene Ben wishes had happened the first time. I also was really struck by how he tells Rey something like “you can’t go back, like I can’t” because it’s just so fucking sad, and is such an encapsulation of KyloBen himself. He kept pushing himself farther and farther in the wrong direction, making the wrong choices, making it harder for himself to leave, while all the time wanting to do the opposite. I always joke about how when faced with two choices he inevitably picks the worse one, but he really, really does. He wanted to accept Han on the bridge but did what Snoke wanted and killed him instead, cementing his darkness, and then tortured himself with guilt over it, using it as fuel for his “I can’t go back” stance. It’s beautiful storytelling that that memory is what he uses to finally make the right choice, and I say that knowing that I’m sure in a world where Carrie Fisher is still with us, it would have been the scene with Leia I’ve wanted since TFA. But it works so beautifully.

69. The Finn and Jannah scene really makes it seem like Jannah is meant to be Force-sensitive too, and that’s why she broke the conditioning like Finn did, but then that means the reason any of the stormtroopers defected is because they’re Force-sensitive, and so her entire company is Force-sensitive? I know it’s Star Wars but I find that really hard to believe. And I’ll admit I dislike the idea of making it about the Force rather than conscious choices Finn and Jannah and everyone else had to make. The stormtroopers were really a missed opportunity in the ST, imo.

70. Speaking of ignoring the story group, I love Leia with a lightsaber as much as the next person but I do think that part felt like “everyone always wanted to see Leia with a lightsaber so here it is” while ignoring the established characterization that Leia chose not to be a Jedi because she was afraid she was too much like Vader and that she wanted to focus on the political realm. So I’m torn, because I love the idea of Luke and Leia training together, but I needed there to be some acknowledgment of what had already been established regarding her choices and motivations, rather than totally disregarding it and then having the only reason she didn’t become a Jedi be that she had a vision about Ben falling because of it. I feel like there was a happy middle ground to be reached that wasn’t. 

[emelkae]

The Rise of Skywalker takeaways

Do not click open if you haven’t seen TROS/don’t want to read TROS spoilers! I'm on mobile so hopefully this has the Keep Reading thingy. This is from the perspective of someone who liked TFA and disliked TLJ.

The Good: I did like it, generally, for nostalgia reasons. I would say I was satisfied with it as an ending to the sequel trilogy, and some of the things that critics ripped apart felt like no big deal to me.

One critic said watching the trio quip and banter with each other was boring and that it seemed like their scenes were supposed to be interesting merely because they were together. They lamented the lack of earth-shattering dialogue between them and said it felt more fanfiction-y than dialogue should be coming from a professional franchise, but honestly, seeing the three together doing literally anything was something I wanted to see more of, and I loved every second of them sharing the screen. And why should dialogue between friends always be earth-shattering? They were just hangin’ out and it was wonderful. There was so much hugging and shoulder pats.

It was visually the best-looking thing to come out of this franchise. You could take any shot from this movie and stick it on a poster and it would fit. It did sometimes come off as them cramming every piece of concept art into the movie, but it was so beautiful I didn’t even care.

Carrie’s Leia scenes were not as clunky as the critics said they were. I think going into it knowing they were deleted scenes made them seem slightly more “off,” but if I didn’t know that I wouldn’t have found anything wrong with them.

The parallels to the original trilogy were numerous and were obvious fan pandering, but I ate it up. I 100% expected that from J.J. Abrams. Same with the cameos. I got all emotional at the last “be with me” scene, I’ll admit that unabashedly, and I liked the scene at the end with Force Ghost Luke and Leia.

Kylo Ren became basically a Vader clone and I was here for it. I was like “you go you absolute edgelord meme I hate that I love this terrible character so much”

Lando gets to fly the Falcon again ahhhhh he’s reunited with L3 :)

The Palpatine stuff was weird, but I thought it was super cool anyway. Probably it was the visuals that got me, but Star Wars has been weirder, so no complaints from me there.

THE SCENE WITH HAN AND BEN OOOOOOOOOOO BEECH I WAS SO HAPPY. And Luke lifting the X-Wing and smiling directly at the camera like a little shit god damn you you are really just like Obi-Wan in your ghost life ain’t cha?

I didn’t see what all the praise was about with Adam Driver’s acting as Kylo Ren until his transformation into Ben Solo. His whole face smoothed out and it seemed like his eyes got bigger and softer? Catch me being thirsty but I did actually want to see more of him as Ben. His fighting mannerisms were just like Anakin’s, too. And he was just so gentle ghjkjhg

The Bad: Okay…Although I liked it, I do have complaints. Some minor, some major.

It was too long and too much was going on at once. Because there was so much packed in there, the pacing was weird and the scene transitions were very awkward and jerky. They could have cut like a quarter of all that and it would have been fine.

Finn never tells Rey that he’s Force sensitive, and I only knew from context clues and actor interviews that that was what he was going to say to her, so of course they never explore Finn’s relationship to the Force or even mention it any point.

There are soooo many parallels to Leia and Han with Finn and Poe (not to mention the chemistry), but of course they don’t end up together. They introduce some random new female characters who, while badass, are completely flat and are obviously only there as love interests and new action figures to sell. Idk, maybe I’m just salty because my ship isn’t canon. Speaking of new toys, the new droid they introduced was another thing they obviously just wanted to stock shelves with. It was cute though.

Most of the major plot points were out of completely nowhere and were not foreshadowed at all. Rey being a Palpatine and Hux being a spy for the Resistance come to mind. Also, there could have been some really interesting character development with Hux being a spy, like Kallus in Rebels, but then he is just unceremoniously killed by a superfluous random character. Leia’s lightsaber and her whole “oh actually she’s been trained in the Force this whole time” was a cool concept that also came out of nowhere.

The scene with Rey and Kylo fighting above the ocean was just awful. It was twice as long as it needed to be, the fighting was clumsy (a critic said it was like they were swinging baseball bats at each other and it absolutely was), and some parts of it were so needlessly dramatic that I was laughing at what was supposed to be a serious scene.

I wish they would've left Threepio's memory wiped. They made the wipe such a huge emotional deal and then were like "nvm Artoo can just stick a thing in his head and it's all good" and I was like "...oh so all that was for no reason then I guess"

The Ugly: I. Do not. Ship. Reylo. I don’t ship it and have never shipped it. I don’t get aggressive toward people who do (ship and let ship, y’know?), but it personally makes me uncomfortable and just feels creepy. So as pretty as I find Ben and as gentle as he was with Rey, I kinda imploded at the kiss and was so upset that I said “Nope nope nope fuck no” out loud in the theater and closed my eyes. Especially since I think the comics established that Palpatine is Anakin’s dad, and he’s also Rey’s grandfather, which I think makes Ben and Rey like…first cousins once removed or something. That was the only thing that made me genuinely really pissed off about the movie, that Reylo is…I guess canon? Even though Ben died right after? It was very very weird and I hated it. And it made NO SENSE. I liked watching Driver as Ben, but I didn't think Kylo deserved a redemption and certainly didn't want it to be that sudden and short. Him dying was also done weirdly.

Overall: Most of my complaints are just me nitpicking, with the exception of the last one. I am actually glad I went to go see it. The good does outweigh the bad for me. While I can definitively say I liked TFA and hated TLJ, I can only say this one made me feel mostly good when I left the theater. It was bad as a movie, but good to just romp nostalgically through the Star Wars universe with.

[lilyfromfrogzcountry]

Saw TROS - spoilers ahead, don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled

I need to get some things off my chest to sort out my feelings about this movie :)

It wasn’t as /bad/ as I expected. Let’s say I didn’t get bored. However, there was a lot of stuff I found weird, dumb or that didn’t make sense to me. A lot of things seemed rushed and like last minute additions, which spoiled a bit my enjoyment of this movie. So here’s a little summary of what I liked and didn’t like.

((Before reading, please be aware that i’m a hux fan and a multishipper (reylo included). If this bothers you, please avoid reading this post, since this will probably influence my perception of the movie))

⛔⛔ SPOILERS JUST BELOW - BE WARNED ⛔⛔

What I liked :

Finn finding other stormtroopers having defected (a whole battalion, even), and realizing that he’s not alone. Even if it was to be expected, Finn was always presented as an exception in the story. This shows us the First Order’s stormtrooper program isn’t as efficient in its brainwashing as they claim to be.

Hux being a spy for the Resistance. I know some Hux fans may not have liked it, but I personally found it to be an interesting development in his character. It’s not everyday that a high ranking officer, who’s been a ‘true believer’ in the cause his whole life, changes side like that. I wish it would have been explored more deeply and seriously. Too bad it felt like a last minute addition.

This idea that “some things are stronger than blood”. Rey’s ancestry doesn’t matter, doesn’t influence her destiny. Light side or Dark: what matters is who she chooses to be.

CGI young Luke and Leia flashback (I’m really a fan of this CGI way of bringing back younger versions of actors, the result is always quite realistic imo).

This cute and polite new little robot, D-0 . So sad to learn it was abused by its former master :’(

Kylo’s clothes changing when turning back to the Light. Bye bye black menacing attire and long cape, hello simple shirt and pants. Even if I loved his former look, I quite liked this one as well, it made him appear more “human”. Also, damn, I really found Kylo to be a treat in this movie, he looked so good!

Rey always making a difference between Ben and Kylo Ren : she makes it clear that what interest her is Ben, ie. the Light side of him. It is only after he turns back to the Light for good, after he becomes Ben again, that he earns her trust and love.

Rey lethaly wounding Kylo, then healing him. Because it really seems to be the thing that shook this boy’s soul and made him turn back to the Light (it’s a big part of why, at least). Also, I’m always a sucker for nice characters showing compassion towards villains.

That reylo kiss tho. I know this is a very controversial ship, but since TFA, I was personally certain something deep was going to happen between those 2. I’m glad it was a cute, sweet and hopeful kiss, right after Kylo saved Rey no less. We even get some Ben Smile™. I really wish the movie would have ended here and there, on this hopeful note.

A lot of Hux’s scenes, since I just like him a lot, and he looks both cute and funny (even if I don’t really appreciate how this character was turned into a joke after TFA). Him being unsettled by Kylo having his mask back on, and then saying fearfully how it ‘looks good’ when Kylo calls him out on it in front of everyone. Kylo waving his finger at Hux to shut him up. The whole interaction with Finn and Poe, how they were surprised he was the spy, how he helped them escape, how he asked to be shot to pretend he was taken hostage, the “I don’t care who wins, I just want Kylo Ren to lose” line, etc. Also, how strong his mind must be if he managed to hide the fact he was the spy from Kylo for so long (or did Kylo know and just ignored it?)

What I didn’t like

Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter and all her powers coming from him. I’m disappointed, because what really interested me in this character since TFA is that she was a nobody. Star Wars had always been centered around the Skywalker family and its Exceptional Destiny™. It was nice for a change to see someone who came from nothing be the main protagonist and shake up the galaxy just because it was the right thing to do (a parallel to Finn, a simple and almost exceedingly banal stormtrooper who chose to become something more, and wasn’t pushed by some hidden destiny/heritage). Also, this whole Palaptine arc seemed like it was added at the last minute.

The whole ‘Palpatine is back and wants to make a new Empire’ shit. For me, Palpatine was really a thing of the past. That’s also what interested me in the First Order: the fact this was a regime built on the ruins of the Empire, having evolved under its shadow and memory, but wanting to become something more. It was a good way of exploring the “how the past can influence the present” thematic, and could be used as an interesting parallel to IRL authoritatian regimes reclaiming a glorious past. If Palpatine was behind everything from the beginning, nothing of this matters. Also, what was the deal with Snoke, then? Was he a mere creation of Palpatine from the beginning? Or a real being that got captured and manipulated? What was the point of this character?

Hux’s death. Like, I may be biased because he’s my favorite character, but his death was so rushed and unnecessary. Did he really need to be killed off by Pryde like that, in such a quick and callous way? With Phasma and Snoke gone, he was the only one left in the First Order to have a past history with Kylo. I think it would have been better to have them interact more, especially with the whole story of Hux being a spy. It would have created some interesting interactions. Also, he’s not anybody storywise: he’s one of the architects of the First Order’s rise to power, perfected the Stormtrooper program, participated in the creation of Starkiller Base, gave the order to destroy the Republic... He’s not some random underling. Nobody seems to react or care when he’s killed off out of the blue, which doesn’t make any sense storywise.

The whole character of Allegiant General Pryde. What was even the point of this character? Where does he come from? What did he do that Hux couldn’t have done? The only interesting thing about this character seems to be that he already served Palpatine during the Empire, but after this fact is stated, it doesn’t come up again and doesn’t really influence the story. He doesn’t do anything extraordinary, just gives random orders. Clearly a waste, imo.

The fact that the Rose/Finn thing is completely abandoned. I know a lot of people didn’t like that kiss in TLJ. I personnaly didn’t really care. But it’s weird it’s never mentioned again, and that even in the few interactions those characters have together, there’s no awkwardness, no aknowledgement that it ever happened (even just to say “we moved on”). It’s like it never even existed. What was the point of that kiss, then?

That weird love triangle thing I felt between Rey/Finn/Poe, and the hostility Poe seemed to have towards Rey for a good part of the movie. I really wonder if they didn’t try to subtly cater to Finn/Rey shippers (by making Finn seem in love with Rey) and to Finn/Poe shippers (by making Poe seem in love with Finn, and jealous towards Rey), while nothing clear is ever stated out loud. Of course, I may have misread the vibes, but that’s what their interactions made me think of.

Kylo’s death. Like, I may here again be biased because I like redemption stories, but was it really necessary to have him die right when he turns back to the Light? I was so hopeful for him, and it was all gone in an instant. Also, his death was very weird and seemed rushed. Rey kisses him, he smiles, he seems quite fine and not /at all/ on the verge of death, and then he just loses conciousness and disappears? What even was that?? (also, very sad to make that whole family die off without having known any true happiness away from Palpatine’s manipulations)

Stuff overwhelming the story: too many big revelations, too many powerful ships appearing out of the blue, too many weird stuff happening with Palpatine (wtf was that ‘ritual’ even? what was this shadowy audience he had?). Just...a lot of stuff to digest. And the Palpatine storyline seemed like it was added out of the blue. Nothing in the 2 last movies gave a clue about this (or it wasn’t obvious). Seemed like a cheap last minute addition..

[emeraldspiral]

I've noticed some Reylo shippers are former Finnrey shippers. Do you think it would a fitting choice to have Rey fall in love with Ben and not Finn, or any of the others like Poe or Rose?

I expected F1nnRey to be endgame throughout the majority of TFA until Rey pointedly did not kiss him when he came to rescue her from Starkiller base and then gave him a chaste kiss on the forehead and called him her friend before departing to seek out Luke.

Once the credits rolled I felt it would be a mistake for them to get together despite how cute they’d been during the movie because the moment to make that happen had passed and there was nothing for them to overcome in order to be together that would justify delaying it. I also couldn’t really make sense of a lot of TFA’s choices and thought it was a bafflingly bad movie until I reevaluated the story and realized that Rey and Finn were meant to be on separate journeys and Rey’s was with Kylo, while Finn’s would be with the Resistance. Which should’ve been better for Finn because it meant Rey wouldn’t be stealing his thunder at every turn like she did when she kicked Kylo’s ass after he easily defeated Finn, despite Finn being the one who had a stronger connection to him at the time.

[kyloreyorgana]

STAR WARS 9 ! TROS SPOILERS !

In case this is not obvious enough, this post will contain SPOILERS for the last Star Wars movie, which I’m just now coming home from. These are my first thoughts. I have tried to tag as best I could so that people who mute the tags don’t see my post. Do not proceed f you don’t want to read any spoilers.

You have been warned. Long (and I mean LONG) post ahead.

First of all, I’m happy to be back y’all! Just with TLJ, I come from months (or has it been years already ?) of inactivity to jump right back into the fandom, as obsessed as I was back when I came home from TFA. Which is funny because at the time TFA came out, I had lost all interest in Star Wars and heard so many critics from people who’d seen it and said it was horrible and that Disney basically sold the franchise to the devil that I didn’t even want to see it, to keep the good memories closer to my heart. One night, one month after its theatrical release, I thought “aw fuck I might as well see it, at least for Carrie, Mark and Harrisson” so I went to the cheap theater that was near my home... I had zero expectation, and really I think it’s the reason why I loved the movie so much. I didn’t chose to ship Reylo, this ship whacked me like Harley Quinn’s oversized hammer with the Hades and Persephone aesthetics. When I came out, completely mesmerized with what I had just seen, I jumped on Tumblr as soon as I got home, and I ended up creating this blog just days later. I wanted more and more, fics, metas, fanarts, headcannons, theories, cracks, I could never get enough. For TLJ and TROS, I had lost most interest in the fanfics and the fandom (because as much as I love the movies and some people in the fandom, most of it can eat shit as far as I’m concerned). I heard so many critics of TROS already, I was afraid I was going to be disappointed. But I loved it. Only Star Wars can make me go from utterly uninterested to “Wow I can’t wait to see this new Star Wars in theater, what a time to be alive”, to a stage of total obsession that lasts for months. And that is the reason why I don’t give two shits about anyone disliking the movies. It’s sad you didn’t like them, but it made me feel the same way I felt right back when I was a child watching the original movies with my father. It feels like home. And that is the best thing I could ask for.

Like in TLJ, I cried as soon as I heard the first note of the opening. The last Skywalker story, the last time I ever see my Space Mommy on the big screen...

I know the Reylo community is about to be nuts. The whole movie, like TLJ before it, is basically a series of things we’ve already done in fics and theories. I am 100% positive I have read a fic where Rey and Ren try to hold back a ship with the Force and Rey ends up involuntarily shooting lightning. Whichever one of you did it is probably going to have a stroke in the theater. I nearly did.

And really, I wish I could see the look on the Antis’ faces when they see the movie. I’m sure it is a sight to behold. I wanted to scream “TAKE THAT, BITCHES” more than once. As in TLJ.

My biggest fear was what they would do with Leia. I knew Disney said they wouldn’t use CGI and chose to stick with the scenes Carrie had already shot, and I was afraid it wouldn’t honor Leia’s legacy. Well I... have mixed feelings. While the way they used Carrie’s scenes and made it look like she really is here is to be lauded, it sometimes feels like Leia had nothing interesting to say but they tried to put her in a dialogue anyway, because she needed to be seen doing (or rather, saying) something in the Resistance. And about her death... I still can’t put my finger on what exactly I didn’t like about it but I felt like something was missing. Watching the scene, at first I didn’t know if she was having a heart attack or if she stabbed herself or chose to give up her life because she somehow felt it was the moment, I’m still not sure just why she did what she did. I wish they put something more to motivate her decision and explain what exactly she does. I don’t know, a flashback of Leia holding baby Ben, a little more dialogue, something. Not just Leia suddenly getting up and going to bed whispering her son’s name. 

I knew I was going to be disappointed. Among all the celebrities’ deaths, Carrie’s is the one that affected me the most, and believe me I was a wreck when Bowie passed. I miss her, I think about her every single day. And Leia deserved more, much more. When I saw TFA, part of the reason why I loved the movie was that, even though it pained my heart that Han and Leia’s son turned out this way, I thought they would make it right. I spent hours imagining a scene in the 9th movie where Ren would defeat Rey (incapacitate her the Skywalker style cutting her hand or something) and approach to give the killing blow, and Leia would enter the scene, pick up Rey’s lightsaber, look her son dead in the eye and say “Over my dead body, son”. Because Leia would never give up without a fight, even with her son. And she would get her son back, and her story arc would have been completed. I would have paid good money to see this. 

Episode 9 was supposed to be Leia’s movie, just like ep. 7 was Han’s and ep. 8 was Luke’s. When Carrie died, I knew it would be compromised and it broke my heart, because Leia deserved better. She lost everything. Her parents, her planet, her father, her husband, her son, her brother, the Rebellion, the Resistance, everything. She fought all the way, all her life even faced with the worst odds she never gave up hope, she inspired hundreds of people to keep fighting for what is right, and she would never have a satisfactory ending. What a fucking heartbreak. She didn’t even get to see Lando. Leia deserved more. Every little girl in this world who grew up with her as a role model deserved more. But c’est la vie, as we say in French... My only solace is that I know fanfics and fanarts are going to make me feel a little better about it.

Of course I cried every time I saw her on screen, and especially when they honored her body, as we all honored Carrie when she passed away. This was one of the many fanservice moments, and surely the one I liked the most, although there was some concurrence (more to it later).

Another thing I didn’t like is what they did to Poe’s character. Many people disliked TLJ because of it, which they attributed to a political agenda of hate on men. This is so ridiculous and has already been debated enough that I won’t get into it. I did like the evolution of his character in TLJ, because for me it was an interesting character development as well as a good message: wartime is not only about barging in fights head first, shoot first think later, as is, let’s be honest, everything Anakin ever does. At one point, the narrative of the reckless hero who saves the day when a situation seems impossible and everyone begs him not to do it gets old. Sometimes in war, you have to think ahead, to plot, and yes, listen to what your allies have to say. And it actually was a good critic of toxic masculinity. Could the conflict between Poe and Holdo have been avoided with minimally sane conversation ? YES. But the message was here (as were Holdo’s hair and dress and WOW gurl) and I thought that was it, and Poe would evolve into a wiser person.

But this Poe is, at least in the first half of the movie, not very likable. Hear me, I never really liked Han Solo (never been into macho men) but I really loved Poe in TFA because he was genuinely nice and brave. Here, he’s bitter and annoying. I told myself that he was jealous of Rey because he heard of Finn’s crush on her and he wanted to keep Finn all for himself, which I know is just a crack headcannon, but hey, anything to make it better I guess.

Of course, I’ll never forgive Disney for not making FinnPoe a thing, when even Oscar Isaac ships them hard. And trying to make Poe flirt with the other girl (whose name I even forgot and whose face we didn’t even see, now tell me again how Star Wars has been corrupted by feminists... sigh)  Speaking of, it is me or did two women kiss at the end ? 

I liked the new droid, it reminded me of my puppy. But at the end, it was just another fanservice moment, it didn’t really do anything useful onscreen apart from being cute and funny.

When Rey was finally revealed to be a Palpatine as I hoped, I giggled like a wee girl. Watching TFA, I begged the old gods and the new that they wouldn’t make her another Skywalker, because it would’ve spoiled the Star Wars spirit for me. The whole franchise, in my opinion, is a story about fighting for what you believe is right, no matter who you or your parents are or where you come from. Even though Luke and Leia’s ended up being Vader’s children, they weren’t the only meaningful characters. Anakin was basically a Space Jesus and went from a total nobody to the Chosen One. I didn’t want Rey to be a Skywalker because it would mean that your importance would only ever lay in your bloodline, and that is depressing and totally against the spirit of the Rebellion/Resistance: no matter who you are, you can fight for what is right. For this reason, I wished for Rey to be either a real nobody or Palpatine’s granddaughter, which is also why I liked the fact that Han and Leia’s son turned out bad, even though it made me sad for them (Leia didn’t deserve this). No matter your bloodline, you can always make things right, or fuck up badly if you let yourself be taken away. And, of course, the reveal that Rey and Kylo Ren are two sides of the same coin (aka one of the many times where I picture us Reylos screaming CALLED IT in our seats) was exactly what I hoped for, a beautiful balance. I didn’t share Palpatine’s implication that a Palpatine and a Skywalker are meant to work together, though. That is not how I choose to interpret this duality. That is not what they end up doing, anyway.

Speaking of that old pal Patine, seeing the trailers I feared I would feel nauseated that they chose to reanimate the Big Old Villain, just like they reanimated the Even Bigger Death Star in TFA (how lazy can you be ?). But I enjoyed it. What saved it was Palpatine’s will to be killed by Rey to perpetuate the Sith rite of passage. I don’t even care if it’s cannon or not. I was afraid they would recreate Vader’s dilemma in ROTJ with Rey, but I liked the choices she made. And the throne scene worked for me. Like the rest of the movie it was flawed, for instance we don’t even get an explanation on how he survived. Just like we don’t even get what Finn wanted to tell Rey, even though it was emphasized several times. Was it a love declaration ? What happened to the rushed romance with Rose in TLJ ? (What happened to Rose, actually). While we’re at it, why did Palpatine want Ren to kill Rey ? So many questions. So many flaws.

And, of course I cannot comment this film without mentioning my sweet star-crossed lovers, Rey and Ben. First, I’m really eager to see your reactions. We did it, Reylos! Years of hate and slander and we were right all along. Let’s rejoice.

I like Rey’s evolution. For the moment, I don’t feel like I have too much to say about it (which is fine because this post is way too long already). I like the way she handles her emotions, I like her choices and her character evolution. 

And Ben. Oh, sweet Ben. Although I think the part where he gets his old mask fixed wasn’t necessary, I kinda like what they did with him as well. I must say though that I liked his hair in TFA better.  Oh boy, I loved Kylo Ren but I absolutely adore Ben Solo. And I think the way the movie depicts him even surpasses some fics. The moment when Rey gives him the lightsaber and he gets up and does the Han shrug  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  I almost lost my mind. This ties with the hommage to Leia’s body as my favorite fanservice moment.

And their relationship... Look, I know I wet my pants really enjoyed myself in TLJ when they held hands, but that scene felt rushed even for me who ships them with the force of a thousand suns. Like many things in TLJ (and, as I said, also in TROS) it felt like things I had already seen in fanfics, but in the fics I enjoyed the most Rey had tried to kill him at least 5 mores times before even agreeing to have a one-on-one conversation with him. Their romance in TLJ felt like it was hormone-driven, but I get Johnson couldn’t really do a slow burn in 2 hours. When Leia died and they both felt it in the Force, I could feel that Rey wanted to touch him, to confort him, to grieve with him. I’m glad she didn’t. It wasn’t time. And I really like that she told him she wanted to hold Ben’s hand, not his. And Ben, the Dork Knight, finally realized that if he wanted The Girl, he shouldn’t, you know, threaten her and chase her but get back to the Light Side like she begged him multiple times. Because he really isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, this is apparently what makes him choose to tip over. That or the fact she saved his life. I was still frustrated by Leia’s death so I don’t know if I’m not entirely convinced because it happened just after, I’d have to watch it again. I liked Han’s moment, though.

And in my opinion, Rey and Ren’s fight on the wreck of the Death Star is as good as Anakin and Obi-Wan’s. My Reylo heart will always have a special place for their couple fight in TLJ (aka the best non-sex sex scene in cinema, don’t @ me) but I also liked this fight in light of their relation. Surprisingly, it reminded me more of their fight at the end of TFA, when we see Ren holding his blows and Rey barging in. I thought it was endearing.

The end. Oh my god, the end. I can’t wait to see the first gifs and I really really can’t wait for the HD gifs, because oh boy, I now only live for Ben Solo’s smile. That’s it, I found my will to live, my depression is cured. And the way he handles Rey’s body with the utmost care (while Finn apparently watches it and does or says nothing). And that kiss... And the SMILE. And the KISS. 

Oh, dear gods. Oh dear.

I can’t wait for the first fics in which Ben doesn’t die and they live happily ever after on Tatooine or Naboo or wherever they damn want. Or the fics where he is indeed dead and they still share a beautiful relationship (if Force Ghost Luke could get his X-Wing out of the water, I’m eager to imagine what Ben would do with his Force dick, tongue and fingers. Forgive me, it’s getting late and I’m still flustered thinking of their kiss)

And the fact that she declares herself a Skywalker ? I know a lot of people are disappointed in this, but apart from the fact that she completely deserves the title in my opinion when she inherited the will of both Luke and Leia, which is reason enough, she is absolutely married to Ben and deserves her place in that family. Also, it’s again a beautiful way to remind you that bloodlines don’t matter as much as what we choose to do with our lives. And while I’m glad they showed Leia’s Force ghost (I would’ve been really mad if they didn’t) I’m super frustrated they didn’t show Ben’s. What am I to believe, that he gave his life for her, became one with the Force and vanished into litteral nothingness for him to never be seen again ? Like hell I don’t. Again, counting on the fics and arts to right this wrong.

The movie sure has its flaws, and I still have many unanswered questions, like what the fuck is the badge Maz gives Chewie, or how Rey does her lightsaber staff at the end, and I wish they explained some things better. I wasn’t sure if the saber Leia wanted Rey to have was hers or her mother’s. Most of those questions will be answered by bigger geeks than me in this fandom, so I really can’t wait to read from y’all.

I know a whole lot of people are going to hate the movie. The antis, the gatekeeping trve fans (already I’ve seen people say that those who enjoyed the movies are not Real Star Wars Fans and welp, we’re going to see a lot of shit). The manbabies who genuinely believe in a feminist takeover and see equality as a direct threat. I’m specifically happy they will be disappointed while I got the privilege of enjoying Star Wars as much as I did. It’s not my fault, or Disney’s fault even, that they turned out to be on the Empire’s side. And the day has not come when I defend a megacorporation. 

Leia was the first SJW. The Resistance lives on. People will always fight against evil, like it or not. I know the world is a shitty place and we don’t have much hope nowadays for things to get better, and Star Wars has always motivated me to keep going and stick to my values and my convictions. I felt chills several times in the movie, like at the end where everyone comes to fight, and now I’m more willing to keep fighting than ever. For Leia.

Godspeed, Rebels! 

[dealingdreams]

Okay TROS thoughts...here we go. I’m putting them all below the cut in case somehow you’ve avoided spoilers

so general thoughts...i didnt hate it nearly as much as i thought i would so thats pleasant but im gonna break it down more

things i liked:

Adam Driver.  just Adam. Fucking. Driver my dudes. This is like a backhanded compliment because JJ is so fucking lucky Adam was cast because the emotional depth of the film rested literally all on his shoulders for me. I only felt the weight if he was acting in a scene. 

I’ll admit im biased but I did adore the interaction between Finn and Poe. Their bickering amused me and the tenderness between them was wonderful...I think Oscar played Poe a bit jealous as well which i liked.

the Reylo scenes to me where beautiful. Ben never lied to her, she tried to deny it but she knew he never did. I loved that he was kinda guiding her, protecting her, loving her, and antagonizing her all at once. I loved how soft their kiss was, their smiles are literally the light of my life. Rey’s face when she healed him. Ben just staring at her as she tells him she did want to take his hand...just chef’s kiss

I loved the saber fights. Ben’s fight at the beginning was hot as fuck...and his fight as newly redeemed Ben Solo was even hotter somehow.

 I enjoyed the fight scenes between ben and rey! how often ben just let her walk away, and despite that one scene which i will mention below...i like i even tho rey was rather aggressive idk...it didnt really feel like she was trying to hurt him much either? i just think they had a lot of chances to kill each other and didnt take it...so i like that

i knew she was looking at ben in that clip i knew it...she only makes that soft face at him

I always enjoy stupid ass C3PO jokes for some dumbass reason

Han and Ben’s scene was heartbreaking and beautiful. Again tho JJ is fucking lucky to cast Adam cause recycling dialogue from TFA wouldnt have worked at all had Adam not been so fucking amazing

the save chewie hall blaster scene was fun 

i liked how fucking dramatic children ben and rey were with that damn ship lol...no im gonna force pull it...no im gonna...what dorks

while i didnt like the entire way the force bond was used i did enjoy seeing it still strong and growing

confirming canon soulmate reylo was a highlight

ben’s hair looked bomb

finn’s outfit was cool

Jannah was beautiful (please correct me if i misspell her name)

dark rey was glorious tho 

that new little droid is literally me so i adore it

that sith cave thing was really fucking cool looking 

the visuals of the film were most of the time stunning 

sooooo...now to what i didn’t like:

I think this first one is the most obvious for those who know me but...Ben’s death just feels so utterly useless to me. especially when they gave him a metaphorical death earlier in the film. i feel extremely hurt and betrayed. Disney has gone out of their way to make us sympathize with Ben Solo. They’ve revealed more and more of his past...how alone he was, the abuse he suffered from snoke and palpatine. just fuck...they just kill him...the moment he realizes he’s free and loved they end his life....literally WHAT THE FUCK. it’s a chicken shit way out of a redemption arc honestly. Not letting u just breath after his death was also so horrible. We barely got to see Rey mourn, we got a split second of it then it jumped to another scene...another second of her looking sadly at her sabor to have the moment interrupted 

tag on to above but...they didnt have him as a force ghost cause Disney is intentionally keeping where he is ambiguous so they can sell more shit which pisses me off so much

thats not how the force works

there couldnt have been that many sith could there??? cause like there can only be 2 at one time....fucking rule of 2 so how the hell were there that many

palps being like...see i actually want you to kill me...is ridiculous

rey palpatine is the most idiotic thing i have ever heard. Rey being a no one from no where was such an amazing thing. Just anyone can be strong in the force...you dont need royal blood to make you worth something....then they just retcon that??? the fuck I MEAN THE FUCK. 

Finn does nothing but worry about Rey the whole film. I know folks dont like his storyline in TLJ and while i understand that and do think it could have been written better i still adore it because Finn grew. He grew from just caring about a small group of people to caring about an idea to caring about something bigger than him. I didnt see any growth in his character in this film. His heroics were beautiful to see and I enjoyed seeing his heart but that was John’s acting more than the writing it think. 

sidelining rose was fucking disgusting 

the trio felt forced to me

the leia scenes didnt work for me honestly and they mostly just made me sad

bringing in lando now felt weird 

ive wanted force sensitive finn for a while but didnt feel right

why the fuck have finn want to tell rey something but never do...ugh i hate storytelling like that

they never explained how palps is back...he just is

rey stabbing ben felt odd to me. i loved the moment when she healed him, and i know technically her anger and darkside was coming out and she acted on instinct...nevermind that even before leia called out to him ben coudnt follow thru with the killing blow. 

....i’m sure i’ll think of more as i get angrier 

anyways over all...id be lying if moments didnt make me laugh or smile...if i didn’t feel a sense of nostalgia and enjoyment for 80% of this movie. The thing is that even with so much of it being enjoyable to me it still felt void. An action movie, with new characters, a confusing plot and very minimal emotional depth.

The emotion hinged soooo much on Adam or me. The biggest reason for that aside from that fact that Ben Solo is one of my all time favorite characters, is that the things Rey is dealing with in the film are directly related to her being a palpatine...and i HATE THAT. Like straight up wanna fling it into the sun. 

Rey never needed to be related to a force royal bloodline. She should have been allowed to remain strong because she was just strong. Kylo’s equal in every way, not because she was the granddaughter of a sith which btw you can’t inherit force powers. Retconing something so touching and unique from TLJ was just...fucking idiotic. All to please the loud but small misogynistic fandom that thought a woman couldnt be that strong on her own so she must be related to someone

The biggest thing....tho is killing Ben. it felt so unnecessary and just...i feel so betrayed. The interviews leading up to the film got my hopes up that i was worried for nothing. I always thought they’d kill him, because cinema seems to not know what to do with characters has tragic as him without just killing him in the end. we already got a redemption = death plotline in this franchise...why couldnt we get a redemption = life instead??? My friend who doesnt even like sw that much...tros was actually the 2nd sw fim she’s ever seen...thought it was unnecessary as well and agrees with me a lot about my feelings despite not having the same intense emotional attachment to him as me. She for a moment thought they’d be together at the end but nope. Its just...pointless to me now, the sacrifices han, luke, and leia made to reach Ben are for nothing. Their deaths...pointless...Ben means so fucking much to me. I’ve never felt such an intense emotional bond with a character before so im just hurting so fucking much right now.

Rey taking the name Skywalker isnt hopeful or cute its a slap in the face honestly...and it’s just weird! 

The last Skywalker died loved and held by the woman he loved and that is beautiful to me. He died happy and a hero thats a balm at least...but to not let him be the one to kill palpatine...after everything EVERYTHING he put him and his family thru was another just fuck...i wanted justice for him and he just got thrown away

Ultimately...Ben and Rey are soulmates and their force bond was severed. Palpatine didnt take that from them because he couldnt have...again not how the force works....but JJ used that bond to be a battery???? the fuck...but ultimately hes forcing Rey to live the rest of her days with a gaping wound in her soul. a wound unable to be filled and will be with her for the rest of her life...thats so fucking tragic to me. you give rey someone who is her equal, who understands her, and you take him from her and force her to be alone for the rest of her life?? and we are supposed to not see that as a tragedy? Her being fineishness at the end of the film seemed like direction from either the writing or in the moment, but just further proves he didnt bother to even understand the lore he was using. Force bonds were considered i quess legends in the current SW canon but Rian brought it back...so it’s back. and well

  "A bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It is not a choice… it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force. To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die—but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply… it would simply be empty, a wound."―Master Zez-Kai Ell[src]

and .... the only way to break it was to turn away from the Force, as Surik did on Malachor V. So basically it all came down to creating a wound in the Force”

sooo yeah...im pissed i’d give this movie a 1 1/2 out of 5 

thank you for those who have read my rantings! I hope at least some of this made sense

[gerses]

The Rise of Skywalker quick thoughs (spoilers)

I just came from the movie and will need to digest it for some time but here are my initial thoughs:

Positives:

* Definitely can't call this movie boring. So much going on.

* Rey finally gets the development she needs. If in TFA she is fairly generic heroine and TLJ sidelines her in favor of Kylo, TROS is finally all about her conflict. Ridley does good job.

* Finally the crew stays together... even if Rey keeps wandering away. I enjoyed their interractions, although Poe was too combative here for my taste. Felt like he's stuck in the negative light he was shown in TLJ.

* Kylo's development feels natural despite how quickly it ultimately happens. I could believe his turn.

* Good moments of humor. Liked the little alien that wipes C-3PO and the new cute droid.

* Nice visuals and a great sense of epic scale. Sure, some of the stuff would be ridiculously over-the-top in any other movie, but hey, it's Star Wars. I loved the crowd of worshippers around Palpatine, the sense of something old and huge going on there.

* "Dad." "I know." Perfect moment and without question best and most meaningful call back in the movie.

Negatives:

* So much going on. It feels like it should've been an entire trilogy in itself and I actually think I would've preferred that. Everything about Palpatine, Final Order and Rey's past comes out of nowhere. I've been convinced since TLJ that ST was not planned from the start and TROS basically confirms that. Would've been so easy to hint that there is someone pulling Snoke's strings before his death. Actually Palpatine's message mentioned in the opening crawl should've been a cliffhanger at the end of TLJ. Or better, end of TFA so the plot wouldn't be so crammed. All these sudden revelations make the movie feel shallow and disconnected from any grand narrative. They also highlight how much TLJ fails to move the plot forward.

* Too much fanservice and nostalgia bait. Feels like almost every scene has some eastern egg. We get it, this is not the first Star Wars movie.

* Zorii Bliss was pointless character and her relationship with Poe felt extremely forced (like Rose but lot worse) and gives me no-homo vibes knowing how popular Finnpoe is. Everything she does could've been done by Lando or Jannah.

* Maybe I'm stupid but I didn't understand what happened to the First Order. Were all their troops on the Exegol? Why - did Palps want them all attending his suicide party? They seemed to have heavy presence in the galaxy already, Finn or Poe even saying there will be patrols in that backwater desert party. Hard to imagine the fight is truly over. And why did people suddenly join the Resistance now, when the odds are much worse than in TLJ?

* I'm not a Reylo shipper, but was disappointed that Kylo Ben dies. I get that it's his sacrifice but it feels anticlimatic compared to Vader's turn because we see him return to his old self for longer and then it's all (almost literally) tossed away. And the death-kiss-death sequence just felt weird.

* Similarly , I'm not very invested in the OT characters or the saga's legacy or whatever, but even then realizing that the whole OT trio is dead, the entire Organa-Solo family... damn. Poor Chewie, no amount of therapy will help with that. In fact, the end felt emotionally confused to me, like it's meant to be a happy ending but it doesn't feel like it after all the loss and then Rey ends up.. alone in the desert, again.

* Ultimately, the biggest flaw of the Sequel Trilogy is that we end up where we started. The evil empire is defeated by the ragtag rebel crew , again. Republic is saved, again. Palpatine dead, again. Still no Jedi and no Sith. The fate of the Jedi legacy again in the hands of a gifted orphan on a desert planet. Back to square one. Emotionally the movie felt a bit shallow to me, but I didn't hate it and I excpect my thoughts to get more nuanced with time.

[counterspelling]

rey! (also i think you got the wrong anakin for a previous ask)

Rey!

How I feel about this character: Ooooh boy. Okay. So. I hate the ST. I really do. But Rey and Finn are the ONLY TWO GOOD THINGS, two characters who immediately stole my heart. Even after the trailers and background info came out I was so hoping everything they'd told us was a red herring and that Rey was basically just Jaina, a fully trained jedi knight, undercover on Jakku for a mission... but she wasn't. But that was okay, because she was still so good! An extremely lonely kid, isolated on this terrible planet, with no way out because she hemmed herself in by her own fears and dreams. If she leaves, she loses any chance of reuniting with her family, when she’s spent her whole life taking comfort in dreaming about them as she tries to eke out a bare, lonely existence on this junkyard planet. She wears the same hairstyle for 15 years!!! Because that is her one connection to them!!! And so even when these two people, Han and Finn, sweep into her life and heart for the first time, and she so immediately feels a connection and bond with them, she's so scared of never finding her past that she turns them down!

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Finn!!! The 101 Dalmatains meetcute where they spin around talking about how cool the other one is! These two lonely people meeting each other and feeling connected for the first time. Getting swept into events larger than they are and finding strength in one another! It's good!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: BB-8? Poe or Rose if we'd, y'know, gotten to see them interact and this trilogy wasn't a disaster?

My unpopular opinion about this character: Not unpopular with anyone who knows me but kyle ron/rey is absolute and utter trash. Rey would literally never. She watched him murder his own dad 2 days ago. Rey spent her ENTIRE LIFE longing for a family, for ANY type of connection. You think she's gonna feel romantic toward the guy who kidnapped and violated her mind and sent her closest friend into a coma and killed her mentor who is also HIS OWN DAD??? When she'd never been blessed with any of those connections??? Someone turning their back on their family when dreaming her own own is all that got her through her lonely life??? Literally only Rian nazi sympathizer Johnson would think that. To take the first trilogy NOT about white men, to sideline the women and poc who were taking center stage for the first time in Star Wars and say no, this is ACTUALLY about the explicit, textual villain who has slaughtered millions of people and idolizes the Empire and none of what happened was actually his fault.......... it's bad writing. The Good Place s1 finale is the best example of shocking viewers and yet actually having it make sense. Making Rey “no one,” blaming Luke for Kyle Ron’s fall when he was a grown ass man who decided to slaughter kids on his own and fall to the dark side, all in the name of shocking viewers and saying that everything that TFA set out and Star Wars’ general themes are nothing in the name of SUBVERSION~~~~~ is so fucking stupid

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: TLJ. She's literally a different character. She bears no resemblance to TFA Rey. She has no motivation of her own. Her story ENTIRELY revolves around Kyle Ron. It's disgusting. Rian took away all of her agency, her characterizations, her dreams, just to make her subservient and twist the narrative to be about the evil white man because he is apparently incapable of imagining stories about anyone who doesn't look like him

LMAO thanks you're right, I did, Anakin Solo!!!

How I feel about this character: I actually resented Anakin for a long time??? Because once he started getting older he started pushing Jaina out of being the main Solo kid. She was a mechanics savant, but he was an even better one!!! She was the leader of most of their young stories, but now Anakin is again The Chosen One!!! JJK did a great job with him and struggling with his identity and legacy in having his grandpa's name and the guilt and unsurety over that, and then everything went to hell and I REALLY fell in love with his character when he went after kidnapped Tahiri, and then....... Star by Star........... the only other time I've cried so hard at media is the last 3 episodes of PGSM and Han's death. The first time I finished that book I just sobbed on my bed for at least 30 minutes. To know how torn their family was going to be, that they would never recover to what they were before and they would have to find a new balance, to know Jaina and Jacen watched their youngest sibling die and were helpless to stop it, that Han and Leia suffered the loss of a young child..... it was so hard, and he was so heroic, and it hurt SO MUCH

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Tahiri! They were very cute! But also EXTREMELY YOUNG, and everything that happened later, with Jacen manipulating her into falling because apparently 10 years later she still can't accept the death of her childhood best friend to the point that she will go back in time to watch him and let herself fall to the dark side and murder people.......... it's such bullshit. Tahiri is her own person and can exist outside of her love of Anakin

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Jaina and Jacen!!! Sibling bonds :((((

My unpopular opinion about this character: I do still think it's dumb that he swept in and pushed Jaina aside when she was the oldest and coolest, dammit

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: He should have lived :(((((

[him-e]

Ships and “Endgame” in the ST

I’m curious about are how the narrative treats Rey and Kylo’s interactions in TLJ and how Rey interacts with Finn: I just wanted to hear a counter-argument on why F/innRey wouldn’t be endgame and/or Rey/Kylo would be endgame. They’re not connected necessarily: both can’t be endgame at the same time because I don’t expect Lucasfilm to depict a poly relationship any time soon, but arguing against Reylo being endgame doesn’t mean f/nnrey must be canon or vice versa. Please don’t think I’m writing this in bad faith, I’m genuinely curious about these points and I don’t mean to disrespect anyone who ships Reylo. 

Rey and Finn’s interactions in TFA and TLJ are framed very positively. The lines of dialogue between them like “Cute boyfriend?” and “You looked at me like no one ever had,” definitely point to romantic interest to me: I don’t see why the creators would include lines like that without indicating some romantic interest was there. Finn is the first person to ever “come back” for Rey, and their experiences with each other are “firsts” that are incredibly important. They care deeply about each other.

In TLJ, they are separated for the majority of it, but you could say that separation is always part of the romantic arc, and Rey is constantly thinking about him, while Finn is constantly thinking about her. Before she heads off to save Kylo, she gives Chewie an important message to Finn. (Which could have been something like “I love you” but I don’t want to assume.) When they see each other and embrace at the end of the movie, it’s the first time Rey looks *happy* in TLJ. She looks so happy when they hug, and there’s a long hold both on their embrace and at Rey’s heartbroken expression as Finn tucks  in Rose.

In contrast, the Rey and Kylo scenes could be interpreted as Rey learning her lesson about how important Kylo is to saving the galaxy: not a “Don’t Trust Your Sexuality” lesson, which I do find a misogynistic angle to take on this particular issue, but a lesson about thinking she needs Ben Solo to save the galaxy, a lesson that she doesn’t need him. Additionally, although most of their Force bonds are weighed with attraction, she never seems to be very happy with him, and at the end, he says deeply cruel things to her (The Throne Room scene) and attempts to have her killed on Crait. 

The last Force bond tells me Rey is not budging, and, per the novelization, has no compassion for him: it would be a long, long road to have her forgive him at all, let alone build some sort of romantic dynamic even though they will probably be enemies for a significant portion of IX. (Noting here that yes, they were enemies in TLJ too, but IX can’t spend a large portion of its running time devoted to intimate conversations like TLJ did: it’s the final act of this Trilogy and the Skywalker Saga, things need to start wrapping up.)

I do think that Kylo Ren’s redemption is somewhat necessary to keep the story of the Skywalker family from seeming like a complete tragedy: it would be a pessimistic ending, in my view, if the takeaway from the ST was “Sometimes, your loved one can’t be saved, and so other people must rise to the occasion,” for the Skywalker family. But, even if I think redemption is incoming, I’m still not convinced that Kylo could be with Rey. There’s audience reaction to consider (cue the cries of people asking just how this villain is worthy of the hero), but also the narrative beforehand: although Rey seemed willing to forgive Kylo completely for a part of TLJ, the audience still remembers scenes like the interrogation (a violation of Rey and something that robs her of agency, even though she does defeat Kylo), the Snow Fight, the Throne Room, and Crait. They did tone down some of his actions in the interrogation, like touching her, supposedly, but I still feel like Kylo is an unambiguous villain in those scenes, his treatment of Rey is awful (and this is just about his behavior, not whether Rey fights him off) and then, after showing us some of his humanity in TLJ, he snaps back to being a villain, and hurting Rey, intentional or not.

In TFA, Kylo is very much an aggressor/pursuer of Rey and her triumph is in fighting him off; in TLJ, he seems like more of a tempter figure, and Rey’s triumph is not giving into his offer and finding value in herself. She doesn’t ever seem happy with him, and the narrative never shows us a scene of complete fulfillment when she’s with Kylo: he never gives her anything she didn’t have, where Finn does in TFA by going back for her. (The scene where they touch hands, especially considering the music and the fact that Luke Skywalker is the one walking in on them, could also be read as an ominous one where Rey is getting too close to the dark.)

I don’t deny that Reylo was extremely “shippy” in TLJ. But Rian Johnson, in the same interview when he said that Kylo’s perspective in the throne room was a “naked, emotional appeal” also said: “It was important to me that it wasn’t a chess game, it wasn’t just a manipulation. It’s unhealthy, and there’s much that is awful about the way that he is manipulative. From his point of view, it’s a very naked, open, emotional appeal.” So he does acknowledge that Kylo is being unhealthy and manipulative, and that’s the writer’s intent. Rey’s arc in TLJ is very much fit to a naive hero’s arc, where she trusts the wrong person and sees the error of her ways. It doesn’t mean that Kylo is irredeemable and can never be trusted again, but TLJ also doesn’t mean that Kylo and Rey should be together, and includes quite a few scenes that could be read as red flags on his end, signals to the audience that this is a bad man who doesn’t have Rey’s best interests at heart.

And then there’s the next film, which is more opinion/conjecture on my part, but I don’t think JJ Abrams is the kind of storyteller who’s interested in depicting a big epic romance as the finale of the Skywalker Trilogy, or interested in involving Rey in the Skywalker Redemption question. Han and Leia care about Ben in TFA, Rey only views him as an enemy; and when she does try redeeming him in TLJ, the answer to her attempt is a solid “No.” JJ is a Better Trevorrow to me, in some ways, where he’s good at spectacle and big, bombastic movies, and although he isn’t openly misogynistic, his movies do have some sexist pitfalls. The “Reylo” arc is on a knife’s edge as it is, and already perceived as abusive and glorifying of a villain who hurts the heroine by many people: how would he be able to execute it in such a way that the audience wouldn’t be outraged at the injustice of Kylo Ren not only getting redeemed, but “getting the girl” so to speak? (I totally think the idea of Rey as a prize is repulsive, but unfortunately the majority of people do still perceive heroines or love interests who are female this way.)

Rey not needing Kylo, and being able to ascend to heroism without him, was the end point of TLJ, and I think it would undermine that ending if in IX she did turn out to need him after all and they had to work together or she had to forgive him. The movies so far have explicitly showed that while they’re attracted to each other, he’s a toxic person who isn’t good for her. And if it is going to be romantic going forward, why would it have an “endgame” type ending? And then there’s the option of Rey being alone romantically, but still surrounded by friends, allies, and people who care about her.

And on a separate note, I just feel like there are far too many “romance” cues for F/innRey for that to not have been planned from the beginning. In TFA, those “boyfriend” lines weren’t essential, they could have been taken out without affecting the friendly-rapport feeling in their relationship. In TLJ, they didn’t have to juxtapose Rey being in tears facing Kylo to happily embracing Finn upon being reunited with him. And while there is the factor of Rose kissing Finn, they never entered into a deliberate romantic relationship or showed that the feelings were mutual: I feel like FinnRose isn’t essential to the next movie if they dismissed it, since so much of Finn and Rose’s arc could be read as them being friends or compatriots. There’s really no cues of romance until she kisses him.

I’m sorry this is much longer than I anticipated, but these are the things that have been nagging me for the past few months. I did really enjoy TLJ, and I do like Reylo and apologize if my comments came off like I was trashing the ship for no reason, but this is my honest reading of the text. I have a lot of respect for your meta and wanted to bring up these points: if you don’t want to respond to this, I’m sorry for depicting a negative opinion and wasting your time.

Don’t worry, I don’t think you wrote this in bad faith! That’s one hell of an essay, and I want to thank you for taking the time to write it and submit it to my blog. The two main arguments you’re making are a) that reylo is real but is depicted negatively and so it’s unlikely to be endgame, and b) that f/nnrey can still happen and be endgame because the romantic hints dropped in TFA must go somewhere and it makes Rey happy (forgive me for the simplification). I’ll try to address some key points.

The movies so far have explicitly showed that while they’re attracted to each other, he’s a toxic person who isn’t good for her

I don’t think that’s what the movies showed. He’s not a toxic person to Rey (Daisy Ridley has gone on record saying Kylo “nurtured” Rey in a way that even Luke couldn’t do)—he’s someone whose political affiliation and morals and ideologies can’t be reconciled with Rey’s, and THAT’S why Rey dumps him. Because he doesn’t stop firing on the Resistance fleet and instead asks her to essentially become a villainess at his side, because he’s still hellbent on being the leader of a despotic military organization, that’s why the narrative separated them at the end of TLJ, not because he’s “toxic” or “abusive”.

even if I think redemption is incoming, I’m still not convinced that Kylo could be with Rey. There’s audience reaction to consider (cue the cries of people asking just how this villain is worthy of the hero), but also the narrative beforehand: although Rey seemed willing to forgive Kylo completely for a part of TLJ, the audience still remembers scenes like the interrogation (a violation of Rey and something that robs her of agency, even though she does defeat Kylo), the Snow Fight, the Throne Room, and Crait. They did tone down some of his actions in the interrogation, like touching her, supposedly, but I still feel like Kylo is an unambiguous villain in those scenes, his treatment of Rey is awful (and this is just about his behavior, not whether Rey fights him off) and then, after showing us some of his humanity in TLJ, he snaps back to being a villain, and hurting Rey, intentional or not. 

So it actually all boils down to the audience’s reaction, doesn’t it? He’s too much of a villain so let’s not make reylo happen or the audience won’t accept it. But what the narrative is depicting—intentionally—is a hero/villain romance. The villain being a villain and yes, doing villain things including trying to hurt the hero (and viceversa, the hero doing hero things and trying to stop, violently, the villain) is exactly what defines this sort of pairings. Part of the audience will love it, part won’t, but a narrative that is afraid of pissing off a part of the audience isn’t a strong narrative.

I’m also not sure what would be the point of redeeming Kylo but still having him portrayed as a toxic individual whom the heroine should stay the fuck away from. Does this sound like an epic closure to a trilogy of trilogies whose thematic pillars have always been hope and redemption? To me it just sounds like a moralistic tale trying to half assedly appeal to tumblr discourse.

The “Reylo” arc is on a knife’s edge as it is, and already perceived as abusive and glorifying of a villain who hurts the heroine by many people: how would he be able to execute it in such a way that the audience wouldn’t be outraged at the injustice of Kylo Ren not only getting redeemed, but “getting the girl” so to speak? (I totally think the idea of Rey as a prize is repulsive, but unfortunately the majority of people do still perceive heroines or love interests who are female this way.)

You’re talking as if the audience is a hivemind and universally agrees with the intra-fandom, white-feminist, tumblr-specific “Reylo is abusive” wank. But the majority of the audience is actually moderately fine with Reylo, and most of them will be overwhelmingly okay with it if IX has something that tops the praetorian guard fight in terms of iconic jedi/sith marriage alliance. A good 80% of the general target audience for SW is people who don’t engage with fandom the way we do, they couldn’t care less about reylo or f/nnrey or any other ships for that matter, they just want to see a good story and be entertained for three hours and pew pew space battles. The people who will be “outraged” if Kylo “gets the girl” are only a tiny niche if you consider the star wars audience as a whole.

Also, it isn’t Kylo getting the girl. It’s Rey getting the boy. TLJ made sure to put her perspective front and center—it’s she who pursues Kylo, she who catches him in a state of undress, she who gets the eye candy, she who ruminates on his backstory while also delving deep into her own. It’s her point of view, her feelings, her attraction, her choices, while Kylo remains relatively passive for most of the time, waiting for her (to show up in a force connection, to come to the Supremacy, to take his hand). 

The scene where they touch hands, especially considering the music and the fact that Luke Skywalker is the one walking in on them, could also be read as an ominous one where Rey is getting too close to the dark

oh, no. No, no, no. :)) The Force theme plays during the hand touch. (the /ominous/ music you hear before is actually some notes from Kylo’s theme, iirc). And the point of Luke’s arc in TLJ was that he was wrong about Ben, wrong about trying to murder him, and especially wrong about going into exile for years, and after this scene he finally decides to face his demons. He’s not the wise mentor whose perspective can be trusted. His perspective is as flawed as everyone else’s. And he is actually the one who is depicted in an ominous way in that scene (barging in, hand raised to destroy the hut in a gesture that reminds intentionally of what Ben did the night he destroyed the jedi academy).

And at no point Rey got too close to the dark. She only got close to Kylo. She was never tempted by power, or knowledge, or violence, or any of the traditional pitfalls of the dark side. Her only instinct was to help, and save someone from himself. If compassion and love are a path to the dark side, then we should rewrite the Sith code, lol. No, Luke was wrong, he learned his lesson, and by the end of the movie he went to face Kylo Ren fully knowing that he wouldn’t be the one who’d turn the monster back into a man this time, but that someone else could.

Rey not needing Kylo, and being able to ascend to heroism without him, was the end point of TLJ, and I think it would undermine that ending if in IX she did turn out to need him after all and they had to work together or she had to forgive him.

It’s not about “needing”, or “having to”. It’s about wanting. Rey not needing Kylo (and likewise Kylo not needing Rey) is something I’m thankful TLJ established, because it actually lays the basis for the healthiest kind of relationship, the one where you love someone without depending (materially or emotionally) on them. This puts all the emphasis on personal choice, rather than necessity, and I think fits extremely well with the main themes of this trilogy. Rey realizing that she doesn’t need Kylo was beautiful and I’m sure the narrative won’t backtrack on it, but I still think she’s going to be with him in the end, not because she “has to”, or “can’t live without him”, but because she wants to.

And I think this doesn’t undermine Rey’s agency at all, on the contrary, it elevates it.

Re: the proposal speech being manipulative but also genuine according to Rian, please refer to this and this. 

Re: Rey being “unhappy” with him, uhm. I see this argument tossed around all the time and it annoys me big time. Right, she was SO unhappy that she ditched Luke to run to Kylo and try to save him as soon as she got a Force flashforward of his being at her side. What an ugly vision she must have seen, right? Careful not to confuse “raw emotions for an enemy whose pain resonates deeply with mine, as I’m also fighting a war” with “unhappiness”. Rey wasn’t unhappy in TLJ anymore than she was in TFA—she just stopped pretending to be fine, as she met someone who made her dig under the surface of her plucky heroine facade and confront her own demons and feelings of abandonment, and who brought his own demons and feelings of abandonment to the table, which Rey felt intensely for.

Happiness, conversely, isn’t always a sign and guarantee of romantic love, and the idea that love always makes you feel happy is generalizing and shallow, especially when it’s more about looking happy than anything. “She looks so happy when they hug”. Uh. So? I have a best friend who is truly the only person in the world who can put a smile on my face when I’m feeling down and who I can be completely myself with, and I would even say she’s the MOST important person in my world aside from my own family, and YET, I’m not in love with her. Nor should I try to be in order to stop suffering or be generically “happy”. Friendship is friendship, and love is love: both are equally important but they’re not the same, and they fulfill different needs. (mind, this is not me dissing friends-to-lovers tropes, which I like a lot, or saying that friendship can never evolve into romantic love, just that the kind of comfort and happiness true friendship offers isn’t necessarily the best basis for a romance, especially when there aren’t any obvious signs of romantic/sexual attraction.)

Speaking of which, and moving to the pro-f/rey part of your submission… I think most of the confusion re: f/nnrey being “obviously” romantic in TFA comes from the assumption that an “endgame” relationship needs to be portrayed as unambiguously positive since the start. Yes, Finn and Rey’s interactions in TFA were overwhelmingly positive—almost too positive, which in mainstream fiction doesn’t bode well for romance. Central romances, especially of the “epic” kind, are generally bumpy (or downright antagonistic) at first. And by “at first” I don’t mean the first five minutes of interactions, as in f/nnrey’s case: I mean at least the first act of the story. Translated into the context of a movie trilogy—it amounts to the first movie, give or take.

I just feel like there are far too many “romance” cues for F/innRey for that to not have been planned from the beginning. In TFA, those “boyfriend” lines weren’t essential, they could have been taken out without affecting the friendly-rapport feeling in their relationship. In TLJ, they didn’t have to juxtapose Rey being in tears facing Kylo to happily embracing Finn upon being reunited with him. And while there is the factor of Rose kissing Finn, they never entered into a deliberate romantic relationship or showed that the feelings were mutual: I feel like FinnRose isn’t essential to the next movie if they dismissed it, since so much of Finn and Rose’s arc could be read as them being friends or compatriots. There’s really no cues of romance until she kisses him.

funny how you’re saying that f/nnrey had “too many” romance cues not to have been planned from the get go in the same breath as you also argue that finnrose isn’t irrevocably romantic and could be easily dismissed in IX. Finn and Rose have a complete romantic arc in TLJ. Complete with a kiss. Whereas Finn and Rey only have a “boyfriend” line (which could be very well foreshadowing of Rey getting a “boyfriend” in TLJ, which she did, lol) and everything else is about deeply caring for each other and being each other’s first real friend (she looked at him like no one ever had, he came back for her when nobody would). Friendship tropes, I’ll concede, can sometimes be confused with romantic tropes, but why do the tropes used in TFA f/nnrey speak of romance more clearly than what Finn and Rose had in TLJ?

My opinion: they don’t. And if it seems to you like they do, it’s probably because you want them to see that way. Which is okay, as long as you’re aware of your bias. What really tips the scale from “could be romantic” to “oh no it’s definitely romantic” is the usage of textual, unequivocal romantic tropes and situations like Rose kissing Finn on the lips against a beautiful beaming ray of light or, well, Rey accidentally walking on a half naked Kylo and being very confused. 

Those are facts, not hints.

And this isn’t Game of Thrones with its three hundred parallel storylines and red herrings or a 14 seasons-long CW teen drama, it’s a three-movie space opera that needs to be as closely knit and narratively solid as possible, it can’t afford doing a back and forth between romantic storylines, which at this point (following your logic) would be THREE, and two of them should be dismissed or ended badly in the last movie for the third to be endgame.

The main couples of this trilogy as established by TLJ are Finnrose and Reylo. F/nnrey having any sort of romantic development at this point would only confuse the audience and unnecessarily complicate the narrative, which is already complex enough as it is. 

In TLJ, [Finn and Rey] are separated for the majority of it, but you could say that separation is always part of the romantic arc

Not for the entire second act of a trilogy, the one where (statistically in the SW movies) the pairing makes the leap from platonic (or antagonistic) to romantic. 

and Rey is constantly thinking about him, while Finn is constantly thinking about her. 

…were they? I mean, they probably were and it’s fine to headcanon it that way, but we weren’t actually shown any of it on screen (it was just handwaved at, with Rey trying to make contact with Finn, and Finn trying to leave to find Rey in the beginning) and this is important, storywise. It means that their dynamic is already established; the narrative trusts the audience to remember that they’re friends, they care about each other, they have an unbreakable sibling-like bond à la Luke and Leia, and there’s no need to remind us that they care about each other or introduce new developments in their relationship, which was fully formed by the end of TFA already.

Before she heads off to save Kylo, she gives Chewie an important message to Finn. (Which could have been something like “I love you” but I don’t want to assume.)

Again, it’s fine if you want to headcanon it that way, but one half of the pairing having the revelation that she loves the other offscreen (and no payoff for that at the end of the movie) is a really bizarre way to establish an endgame romantic pairing, if you ask me.

Re: the residual “romantic” cues in finn/rey—I think, if there were any (which in itself is debatable, but still), it’s probably because the finnreylo dynamic was originally conceived (by JJ) as some sort of lowkey love triangle, and then scrapped (still by JJ) in favor of a completely platonic bond on the f/nnrey side. Thankfully, Rian threw any possibility of a wacky love triangle out of the window by introducing Rose and letting Finn have his OWN romantic storyline rather than being reduced to a third wheel or cannon fodder to some stupid romantic conflict for reylo (which has no shortage of conflict on its own anyway, lol).

You also make it sound it deceptively easy to dismiss Finnrose as some sort of failed experiment or brief but ultimately irrelevant digression in the path that leads to the f/rey romance. It’s not. Rose is an important character, whose feelings matter, and she’s EXPLICITLY, textually in love with Finn. There’s no way to work around this fact or pretend it didn’t happen or argue that they’ll magically turn into platonic coworkers or *compatriots* (?). Finn’s feelings might be less clear but that’s why we still have a whole movie to go. But they already kissed, which as I said is far more definitive storywise than a line about a cute boyfriend or a kiss on the forehead.

Finally,

it would be a long, long road to have [Rey] forgive [Kylo] at all, let alone build some sort of romantic dynamic even though they will probably be enemies for a significant portion of IX. 

It wouldn’t be a long, long road to have her forgive him, it would be a very short and simple road, because TLJ already did the bulk of the work in this sense, and made Rey deeply care for Kylo and, even more importantly, understand where his rage and hurt come from. The romantic dynamic is already established, it only needs to come to fruition, which is incredibly easy to make it happen since (to your admission too) they’re doing Bendeption anyway. To be frank, Kylo only needs to choose to ditch the First Order and maybe make ONE selfless act to redeem himself, even in Rey’s eyes, especially in Rey’s eyes. Nothing he did on Crait was worse than what he did on Starkiller (his body count is even shorter!), and it took Rey approximately 5 days to believe in his inherent goodness. I don’t think she’s changed her mind on that. I think she knows he isn’t in the right place to change his views yet, and is fully ready to fight him if need come, but she also doesn’t hate him, as the novelization also confirms (whereas, post tfa, she thought she did).

yes, they were enemies in TLJ too, but IX can’t spend a large portion of its running time devoted to intimate conversations like TLJ did: it’s the final act of this Trilogy and the Skywalker Saga, things need to start wrapping up.

Actually, it can. TLJ did it and managed to have TWO other full fledged storylines (including another romantic arc) running parallel to the reylo one, an identity/redemption arc for Luke AND an epic climatic battle in the end. 2 hours and 45 minutes are a LONG time to develop a dynamic to its fulfillment. And what other loose ends or main conflicts does this trilogy have to resolve yet, other than Ben’s relationship with Rey (and reconciliation with Leia, hopefully)? The only reason you think IX can’t spend time on reylo is because you don’t see it as a crucial part of this trilogy. But it is.

TL;DR; in my opinion f/rey doesn’t have enough set up to be the endgame romance (not even considering TFA alone), and with Rose’s introduction they kind of sealed the deal. Having Finn and Rey be involved in romantic threads with two other main characters only to undo those threads and put them together in the end actually requires more work (narrative-wise) than letting their respective romantic storylines evolve to their natural conclusion in IX. Pre-TLJ I said that both f/rey and reylo can be “canon”, and both are, the former as a friendship (the most important one in this trilogy) and the latter as a romance. I just don’t think they’ll be both romantic in the end. There’s potential in that to explore in fanfiction (just like there was potential in, say, Luke/Leia or Obi Wan/Padmé or even O/bikin), but it’s an extremely unlikely (and messy) direction to go for the canon story.

Hope this clarifies my opinion on the issues you raised, and that I didn’t sound too dismissive of your points. If so I apologize in advance.

[permian-tropos]

The Last Jedi and Immersion

Forget the specific arguments about why people disliked TLJ for a minute. For every argument, you can point to another plot element in another SW film that does much the same. Eventually I’ve just heard people say, “it just made me feel awful, what can I say, how can I like a movie that made me feel awful? I couldn’t engage with it. Obviously all these problems I have with it are problems with the film.” Seems pretty legit. 

Overall, People who hate TLJ seem unable to suspend disbelief. It’s “not their Star Wars”. But I don’t think this isn’t a problem coming from the facts about what happens in the plot, to the characters (since so many things that people disliked are things people have suspended disbelief for in other circumstances). I think this is something caused by the overall aesthetic tone of the film.

This could mean the film has bad acting, bad cinematography, bad editing, and so on, and I’ve seen people try to argue that. But only Star Wars fans have tried to argue this in large numbers. Bad filmmaking should be apparent to anyone with a background in film studies or film appreciation. But this is a movie that mainstream and independent critics generally had a good reaction too. It was also a movie that got good reactions from the general audience. Not everyone has a Rotten Tomatoes account, but polls of audience members as they were leaving theaters gave it something like an 89% approval rating, iirc. So… what the heck. How can only Star Wars fans be experts on film?

They’re not — but they’re something like experts on Star Wars film. Star Wars is their (our?) standard for what a good Star Wars movie is. This is even more specific than judging a movie by its genre — for a space opera film, The Last Jedi is really freaking good (sorry that’s just blatantly true). But it’s not being judged as space opera.

There are elements to the genre “Star Wars” that are highly specific and I don’t even think that’s a bad thing. I’m a big Star Trek fan, and I’m not a fan of things using the Star Trek property that don’t keep to its genre. Because I think it’s a good genre. But I think TLJ does something really funky clever with a foundational aspect of the Star Wars genre. I think it’s a good movie because it evokes reactions that are not all positive and are also not unintended. It’s a cunning little bastard. 

Punch it, Chewie, let’s do more of this hardcore meta shit:

Star Wars is supposed to be inviting you in. It’s an immersive experience. The fact that it’s full of all this aesthetic detail, the reason why things like the cantina scene are so iconic, is because it doesn’t just serve to move the characters’ arcs along, or the plot. It introduces you to a setting that could be explored from a lot of angles. It’s a place you could imagine experiencing for yourself. That’s why I think the prequels have been rehabilitated after all these years — because they’re full of settings with details that spark the imagination. And one thing I think people felt disappointed by with TLJ is that it is very tight and sparse with its settings. Even when it comes to its parallel movie, Empire, this is distinct. In Empire, the settings are not just places where things happen, but they’re locations where you know tons of other things happened you never saw. The Hoth base was built and manned by tons of Rebels. Dagobah might not be settled, but it’s full of weird alien creatures you just know are lurking somewhere in the swamp. Bespin is a whole city. And even isolated asteroids might have giant worms in them. Now, Empire got mixed reception when it came out. And it’s also a lot more sparing with its settings. If you think about all the other movies (ie. come up with examples for yourself this is already too long), they’re far more inviting. They tantalize you with things that aren’t really conveying plot, or are maybe overcomplicated or weird, but that you’re happy to have the protagonists interact with because it’s just a cool place. You want to imagine having your own adventure there.

But TLJ has locations that are intensely focused on the plot purpose they serve — Ahch-To is a small island with just a few residents, the Resistance fleet is claustrophobic and dwindling, Crait is visually similar to Hoth but it’s not a fully manned base, it’s abandoned, and once its broken down equipment is used, it’s abandoned again. Snoke doesn’t have a whole castle to lurk in, he’s got a minimalist throne room on a big ship, and those Imperial/Order vessels can spark some imagination, but they have kind of repetitive architecture, and everyone dresses the same. They don’t feel as big as they are. The only location that has that kind of expansiveness is Canto Bight, and the movie deliberately denies you the wonder and excitement you’re usually supposed to have. Finn is in awe of all this ostentatious wealth, and Rose immediately shuts that down. Even the fact that they get busted by the po-po for parking wrong is so exclusionary. You’re not allowed to enjoy this, first of all it’s full of evil rich fuckos, second of all you’re not welcome here, you’re riffraff and you’ll be spotted instantly. The only people we can project onto for our own adventures are — and this is VERY VERY INTENTIONAL please remember this for later — the slave kids.

The Last Jedi is not being willfully ignorant about what people enjoy in their Star Wars. It’s paring down that feeling of adventure on purpose. Everything is bare and small and contained. You don’t have a place to slide your original Star Wars character in. You can’t join up. You are excluded. If you want be Luke’s padawan, too bad, his academy is gone and you never even saw much of it besides a burning building. And he hides on this tiny island until Rey comes along, and shortly after, he dies. If you want to be playing the craps table at Canto Bight, too bad, they’re all gross oligarchs, there aren’t even any familiar aliens in the crowd, and none of the patrons of the city get any characterization. Only DJ, and he’s deeply underwhelming and ordinary, like he wandered in from the wrong movie. If you want to be with the First Order, too bad, they all look like asshole chumps. They don’t get to look cool in this one, unlike in TFA, where Hux’s super fascist speech and the enormous scale of Starkiller Base were at least sort of thrillingly evil. I had First Order OCs after I saw TFA. I imagined them on SKB in this remote sector, having fascinating adventures. There was room for them. Not anymore! If you want to be with the Resistance in TLJ — too bad! Most of them die! You don’t want to be on one of those ships, as they’re being blown out of the void. There are so few people left at the end of the film that they all fit inside the Falcon. And you know you’re not on the Falcon with them. A lot of people were instinctively, deeply perturbed by how many Resistance members died, the fact that it’s just a few people left. And you know what, I wouldn’t be surprised if a big factor in this is because it doesn’t feel like Star Wars. Star Wars has always had settings and organizations and factions that you can imagine immersing yourself in, that’s kind of its biggest appeal. But this movie doesn’t let you in.

THAT’S FUCKING BRILLANT

What would you say is the central conflict the main characters from TFA goes through in this movie? — they struggle to feel like they belong. And by main characters, I mean Rey and Finn. Rey and Finn were the main characters that in TFA we got to journey alongside as they faced strange new worlds and people. They are the outsiders to this universe. Rey never left the barren Jakku until TFA. Finn had never left the confining, dehumanizing ranks of the First Order. We wanted to see more of the galaxy through their eyes.

But in TLJ, Rey struggles to feel like she has a place in this universe, and makes some bad decisions while pursuing a heroic destiny. And Finn doesn’t feel at home with the Resistance; he only wants to find Rey, and then later save the fleet so that Rey can return safely.

The fact that the movie conveys that feeling of not belonging, of being locked out, of being an outsider, of not having a place in it all, by subverting the most common Star Wars experience of feeling included and swept up in the magic, is REALLY REALLY AMAZING. People feel horrible from this film, they feel like it betrayed them, they feel like it isn’t Their Star Wars, they feel like they’ve been shut out. And that’s incredible, because it’s exactly the angst that the characters were enduring. It puts you through what they went through. You have to feel that alienation. And people who loved Rey and Finn are not less invested in those characters after the film. They’re really fucking invested, that’s why they’re super pissed that it felt like Rey and Finn weren’t treated right. The movie didn’t kill people’s investment. It heightened it deeply — and that was a negative emotion! It felt awful! And it was a deeply powerful aesthetic experience. Which is good art. 

But remember the fact that the only people you can project onto are the Canto Bight slave kids? They’re the only group that is vaguely defined enough that you could imagine being a kid and being one of them.

Why do you think, having painfully restricted you, the viewer, to this one tiny group, the movie ends on them? Why does it end showing these kids retelling the events of the film with cute handmade toys in a language you don’t understand, so you can imagine them saying anything? Why does it end with one of the kids walking out onto a shallow incline pointing up at the stars, like the slope of the opening crawl of Star Wars, call his broom with the Force, and wistfully watching a ship jump into lightspeed?

The Last Jedi shuts you out the whole way through until that final scene. You aren’t invited to join, just as the characters are grappling with their sense of place and purpose (arguably Luke also grapples with this, and he used to be our POV protagonist too). But then it finally, FINALLY, invites you back. It makes you wait the whole fucking movie to see a place where you belong. And it shows you a completely random little kid using the Force.

That’s you. You’re Broom Boy. You have something special and wonderful inside you, and you are important, but you don’t know it yet, and the universe doesn’t know it yet. You are latent. You aren’t ready yet, but your time is coming. 

But the thing is, this ending doesn’t fully resolve the anxiety of being shut out. It doesn’t make you feel like you love this movie. Every aesthetic choice leading up until this point hasn’t felt like Star Wars. One scene isn’t going to change how you see this film. But this isn’t the last film of the trilogy. The next film will be about closure, and resolution — for the characters, but also for your anxiety. You will be invited back in (I hope). The Last Jedi doesn’t position itself so you know exactly why you felt wrong about this whole affair. It just induces that feeling in you, to prepare you for Episode 9. Because you are definitely going to buy a ticket for Episode 9. There are people who expect Ep9 will somehow rebuke TLJ, and undo everything it does. I sincerely hope it doesn’t. That would be undermining the flow of a whole trilogy. But if it gives you this feeling of belonging again, that doesn’t mean TLJ was a mistake. Maybe if TLJ was exciting and satisfying and pleasing without a hint of anxiety, it would sort of fizzle out by the time Episode 9 comes around. I think we’re supposed to be agitated and angrily hungry for more.