#but mostly just fuck robert and rhaegar

[lightningandfireinmybones]

Okay besties!!! I love the vibe we have going in here. Might I also throw in my two cents because regarding the whole Rhaegar / Lyanna thing, I have some thoughts as well?

So... I think that no matter how you slice it, it could never and would never have worked out. Not only was Lyanna a child (older than say Dany when she was sold to Drogo yet still a child) but also Rhaegar never treated her as an equal.

I find it very hard to believe that the She- wolf, Lyanna Stark herself, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, the girl that was so head strong that Ned is reminded of her when seeing Arya train with Syrio, the same girl that so earnestly and gently was moved by Rhaegar's sad songs at Harenhall, that she would be on board with fulfilling some grand prophesy.

Because the good version of events is that Rhaegar was forthcoming about the prophecy. He was the Heir, he was slowly and under the table making moves to remove Aerys from the throne and since his youth he was conceived that he could recreate the three heads of the dragon. (being born during a horrific accident that leaves almost everyone dead and was maybe caused by your grandfather in an attempt to revive dragons will mess you up I guess)

So when Elia could no longer safely give him that third child he looked elsewhere.

The bad version, and one that I am mote inclined to believe is that Rhaegar didn't tell Lyanna of the prophecy. He was sent to find the Knight of the Laughing Tree, he found her in the God's Eye and that's how the mess started. Lyanna was already infatuated with him (iirc the grand feast had been the night before and that's when she'd heard him sing)

In addition to that, he was the Prince and the Heir. You don't have to be Cersei to get blinded by that.

The whole dynamic was completely off. Rhaegar knew what he was doing. He knew the consequences and that's why he took her and kept her at the tower of Joy, otherwise he'd just have a bastard, or keep her as a paramour. But he knew how outrageous something like that would be.

He had an opportunity to "give" Lyanna back and he didn't.

Instead he started a war that ended with the brutal rape and murder of Elia and his already existing babies and poor teenage Lyanna all alone in Dorne.

Idk what Elia knew or though or didn't think but i believe that GRRM means for us to be very suspicious of R+L.

Besides throughout his book despite insisting upon the very young age of his characters (mainly girls) when being introduced to sexual situations the narrative always condemns them. For more thoughts on this let me suggest this video

ht tps: //youtu . be/QnYa0zSDl7o by Hill's Alive. It's her thoughts on this exact topic and I thing she makes some valid points.

Targaryen men and their prophecies and their ease to cast away their living children in favour of more future kids. The only thing that can bring the fall of the house of the dragon is the delusion of some of their Kings istg.

In the end no matter what one's thoughts on the R+L thing is (All opinions are valid and respected 🖤🖤 let's allow room for everyone) we can all joyfully be united under our hatred and rage over Aegon being Jon's name in the show. Rhaegar already had an Aegon! He was going for a Visenya!!! D&D kind of forgot about that i guess.

(besides aegon is so basic couldn't they do sth sexier? Side eye)

bestie you just do not miss

because whether you believe rhaegar to be a master manipulator (i am somewhat inclined towards that,,, growing up as the crown prince knowing you will probably have to usurp your father,,, you're not unaware of the moves you have to make) or not, there is something inherently unsettling about the way he approaches lyanna

his tragic background also indicates he had to grow up faster, should be mature enough to know exactly what he was doing!! (also that art piece released recently from the calendar i think with rhaegar and lyanna on the cover,,, the vibes are haunting which is very interesting to me)

and i think it's just like a man like rhaegar to think he is this savior and be determined to fulfill a prophecy that actually has far-reaching horrific implications on everyone around him with zero regards for the consequences (especially to the women,,, his wife is raped and murdered, his daughter is murdered, lyanna is left to die alone in childbirth, his mother is alone on dragonstone giving birth to his sister in terrifying conditions)

THAT VIDEO DOES NOT MISS, i think at the very least thinking critically about how and why it's presented like that is important

and all opinions and interpretations and shipping are respected in this house bc fandom and media is a very safe place to explore ideas and kinks and fantasies and i am a staunch supporter of rights and wrongs both being fun and important while also being aware there are implications and critical thinking to do at the same time

for real, i think a consistent theme is the hubris of men (particularly targ men: daemon, aemond, maegor, aegon I, etc) being their inevitable downfall LIKE WE GET IT YOU'RE HOT AND SPECIAL BUT PLS HAVE SOME NUANCE AND CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS

and i feel connected in this chilis tonight over rage for how D&D just gave up on any critical thinking about some of the more difficult concepts in the end, i know it's hard to give any targaryen a better name than aegon but sweaties i can think of at least 4 off the top of my head:')

EXACTLY HE NEEDED A WARRIOR PLS

(also this is just my pure want thing here is that if he's trying to recreate the 3 heads of the dragon, the third head should be a hot warrior woman,,, jon snow eat rocks give me a dark magic queen instead)

[sunderwight]

SV Game of Thrones AU where Shen Yuan transmigrates into a character who is basically Joffrey Lannister.

Luo Binghe is a mix of all the Stark kids, but mostly Sansa Stark and Jon Snow. Su Xiyan and Tianlang Jun had a Rhaegar-and-Lyanna thing going on, and Binghe's adopted mother was Su Xiyan's older cousin, who took him in after the fact and had him legitimized because she was the only remaining heir and had no other kids.

In the original story, King Shen Qingqiu (Jiu) develops a suspicion about Luo Binghe's heritage and, being just as paranoid about Heavenly Demons as Robert Baratheon was about Targaryens, invites the Luo family to come to court. Ostensibly so that Binghe can be playmates with the king's son and heir (Shen Yuan). Binghe's mom is horribly worried that they've been found out, but has not choice but to accept the invitation.

Of course, OG Prince Shen Yuan was a rotten little sadist who made it his life's mission to torment Luo Binghe, was eventually revealed to be the bastard spawn of Queen Qiu Haitang and her own brother, executed Binghe's mom for alleged treason, is party to the slaughter of the noble Liu family, and is eventually gruesomely assassinated at his own wedding feast.

Shen Yuan himself doesn't want to torment Binghe, or slaughter anyone, start any wars, or of course be gruesomely assassinated at his own wedding feast. He would much rather live his cushy life as a crown prince, figure out how to administrate a kingdom properly and also implement some better waste management practices to reduce the awful city stench (like, Shen Yuan was never terribly interested in plumbing in his first life but he is absolutely invested in the subject now.)

The problem is that the System absolutely demands that there be a war and certain other plot points in order to propel Luo Binghe into some sort of narrative destiny. Shen Yuan's not sure why because the last time he checked, the book series was stalled with Luo Binghe seemingly dead, and the television series had basically rendered everything he'd done pointless by the end, but regardless the System won't just let him peacefully evade all the drama and spare Luo Binghe all the suffering.

Boo.

Plus there's the concerning matter of the Northern Demon King awakening and mustering armies to conquer the south (and getting derailed by the beleaguered quartermaster of the Nightswatch, who keeps wondering when the fuck the actual protagonist is going to show up to handle the increasingly concerning plot points, because Binghe should have been exiled by now...?), Zhuzhi Lang resurrecting his uncle (as a dragon?!) across the Narrow Sea, and the Qiu family plotting the murder of the king and a coup to seize power...

(Also featuring: Yue Qingyuan as the parts of Jaime Lannister's character not currently owned by Qiu Jianluo, the Huan Hua Palace Master as a Littlefinger proxy, Meng Mo as Bloodraven, and many more!)

[atopvisenyashill]

Dany's reaction at Viserys's death and later on her guilt over it is perfectly understandable and is one of more tragic parts of her story. As someone who believes in her show ending, I despise that particular scene is taken as her foreshadowing for madness. She was an abuse victim and anyway she reacted was valid. And I don't even think she will ever truly go mad because I believe targaryen madness is extreme obsession with any particular thing (be it dragons or power or prophecy or supremacy or incest) so that all targaryens (even 'normal' ones like aemon, rhaegar, jaehaerys) have this tendency and it can go on to become full on lunacy if not curbed.

Yeah, like what Viserys represents is Dany's ability to completely recast her own memories, a way of showing memory is very fallible (i've mentioned that a lot with Ned, Bran, Theon, Sansa, and Dany is a big example of that as well) wherein she really recasts herself as having so much more agency while she's Drogo's wife than she actually had (something we see echoed in a lot of the wives of very domineering husbands see also: alysanne and jaehaerys, or the annoying way barth talks about alyssa velaryon). I think dany (and the audience) really put the blame for this on her when in reality like......genuinely what was she supposed to do here. Viserys violates a very deeply held social and religious custom of the Dothraki by baring steel in Vaes Dothrak, and Dany is one (1) person with not a lot of influence, no martial training, and no dragons. Beyond that, he has physically assaulted her while she's pregnant once already and now he's holding a deadly weapon to her face. Like. What was she supposed to do to stop this even if she wanted. What on earth could she have done, really. "Please kill him in a slightly more humane way" Drogo is not fucking listening to that and like, it's not to say that the way Viserys dies isn't violent as fuck but like...the alternative is like, dragging him out of Vaes Dothrak to cut off his head, which may technically hurt less but is probably much more traumatic on the whole, or just straight beating/strangling him to death which is also like, incredibly violent and will take much longer anyway. So it's sort of like, well even if she wanted to save him she has no ability to do so!

And beyond that, imo, it's the same as Cersei killing Robert or Arya killing the boy in the stables. Do I worry about the way becoming an out and out murderer will affect them psychologically? Yes, because regardless of why you're killing someone, taking another person's life has a massive affect on your mental and emotional state for a reason. But do I blame either one for this action? No not even a little. Arya is panicked, she knows it's likely if she's caught at best she's a hostage, but who even knows what's going to happen if she gets caught because she's not totally sure what's happening right now. She panics, she kills the boy mostly accidentally, she runs off. That's clear cut self defense right there. And as for Cersei, again, what the fuck is she supposed to do. Her husband is beating and raping her and she has no recourse for this because it's not a crime for a husband in general to beat and rape his wife, and it's certainly not a crime for the King to do it. Her father will not help her because he does not care. If she lets Jaime kill Robert, they are completely fucked. Yeah, hell yeah she kills him, she doesn't have another option if she wants his abuse of her to stop.

It's the same here. Yeah, I think Viserys being murdered in Dany's name has a massive and terrible affect on her psychologically because it's another nail in the coffin of "safety and strength = violence and cruelty" conflation in her mind, and this is her last tie to home, it's her last tie to her family, to her house, to her mother, to Westeros, and that "last dragon" sequence that follows I think is her psychologically accepting that like, To Be The Last Dragon, To Be Any Dragon means you must accept violence and cruelty as your first and main tool to protect yourself (and violence and cruelty can certainly be useful tools but they should not be your only ones. but how could she ever know this when every mentor she's ever had has shown her that the only effective tools are to be cruel before someone else can be cruel to you). But Viserys' death is not her fault, it's not anything she could have stopped, and it doesn't inherently doom her because she is purposefully detaching her emotions from this moments and dissociating over the fact that her last known living relative was just brutally murdered by her husband in her name in front of her, and then her husband promises her what she has always wanted which is a home and a protector and an advocate.

The person responsible for Viserys' death is first and foremost Viserys himself for being a complete idiot and secondly Drogo's fault. Dany cannot stop it, she has nothing to do with it, and she shouldn't be blamed for feeling some sort of relief that a man who regularly physically, sexually, and psychologically abuses her is dead. Who gives a shit man, she literally murders her slave several chapter later.

And as for the Targaryen madness, it's like......idk why it's just so hard to grasp for so many people (this isn't a dig at you, specifically anon, obviously) that mental illnesses often run in a family, incest often makes this worse because you're not introducing anything new to the gene pool, and trauma of any sort can set off severe mental illness issues in just about anyone. As I said before, I think Dany's problem (very similar to Rhaenyra which is why I again find it mind boggling that people will be like "nyra is a tyrant but dany is a hero" when these women have the exact same issue) is that she has consistently conflated cruelty with strength in her mind. She has very little control of her temper, and often rationalizes her actions and the actions of the people around her as being necessary despite there being a lot of other, better options available. She doesn't think long term as much as she should. She has access to a "weapon" of sorts that can do an extreme amount of damage in a very small amount of time, with the added problem that she has an emotional and magical link to that weapon. The dragons only seem partially sentient and that "part" that is sentient is like a manifestation of their dragon rider's id.

That's just so much cooking in her mind, psychologically, and she's kind of born already screwed because her family has a history of mental illness. And tbc I don't think this means that like, mentally ill people should be shut out and barred from society because um, that means MY ass would not be allowed out but it does mean that in a world where certain people are granted certain massive privileges like access to an army or fantasy nuclear launch codes, and there's no check to that power, and there's no safety net, and everyone is using you and your dysfunction for their own gain, the worst parts of your psyche can be enabled until there's a snowball effect of violence. this isn't even like, something just this series; look at the large amounts of disabled and mentally unstable monarchs we've had in history, ask any millennial on lexapro with divorced parents how they feel about their mom's drinking or their dad's bipolar disorder, and you'll get the idea that without support, in a society that enables our worst behavior, someone with a family history of illness can find themselves in a really fucked up situation and that's just like, the tragedy of being alive.

Dany, Theon, Cersei, Ned, Tyrion, Aerys, Aegon II III and IV, on and on, they are of course responsible for the harm they cause, and they are all really screwed from the start and that's tragic, but it's not inevitable that they fail or lose their minds so much as it's an indictment of the way we treat each other as a species.

[alannybunnue]

if there's one thing the entire GOT fandom can agree on, it's that Robert was in love the the idea of Lyanna and not Lyanna herself. Though, if there's one thing tearing Ned and Robert's friendship apart, it's Robert falling for another woman in the middle of the Rebellion he waged mostly for Ned's sister.

reader just existing ends in Lyanna getting disrespected because Rhaegar manipulated her into running away with him because of reader. Robert, her bethroed who is supposedly madly in love with her falls inlove with someone else while trying to save her. Im not a big fan of Lyanna but MAN, do i feel for her.

...I don't like Lyanna either, she brought her father and brother to death thanks to her and Rhaegar's shenanigans, put her brother Ned to the level of a cheater and her son became a bastard.

Honestly, i kinda see this as payback but it doesn't mean i don't feel for her...

Also, the reader who literally doesn't know what the fuck is going on is just so confused right now and i guess she is gonna jump back to the ocean-

[starcrossedjedis]

I'd love to know more about Arthur and Lyra!

I can't believe you got the hint when I was being so subtle about it 🤣

Sooooo... *checks back on notes she literally hasn't touched in like three years*

Lyra is the older Stark girl - by barely a year, some people assume she and Lyanna must be twins. Where Lyanna is soft and petite with an impish glint in her eyes that draws people in, Lyra is long limbs and sharp edges and while she is every bit as pretty as her little sister and just as adventurous, she is also more ladylike, introverted and has made it a point for most of her life to think before she speaks.

And while that should make for the perfect lady in any other situation, next to loud, boisterous and Gods, loveable Lyanna it's easy to see how Lyra has somewhat become the invisible sister and this becomes especially obvious when Robert Baratheon asks her father for Lyanna's hand.

(Not that Lyra would have wanted Robert, he appalled her as much as he did Lyanna)

Her father allows for the betrothal of Robert and Lyanna, but to add insult to injury he does so under the condition that they aren't to be wed until Lyra as the eldest is married - basically declaring her a sort of spinster, standing in the way of her sister's happy ever after to anyone who's into that sort of gossip (like IDK the whole of fucking Harrenhal during a certain tourney 💀)

But the truth is that Lyra is never jealous of Lyanna or blames her for how the world treats them so differently. She loves her little sister and only ever wants for her to he happy.

So when she catches Lyanna sneaking out of their tent one night twelve leagues from Harrenhal - about to run away with the (very married) prince Rhaegar - Lyra doesn't hesitate and follows her into the unknown.

And this is where background ends and the story starts -

She accompanies the little group of mostly Kingsguard and the runaway lovers - riding with Arthur Dayne for the first night and part of the day, because she doesn't yet have a horse of her own.

(He also lends her his cloak, because naturally she didn't bring spare clothes either 🥰)

Lyra and Arthur are the only witnesses to Lyanna's and Rhaegar's wedding and throughout the journey to Dorne we get a feel for the fact that Arthur doesn't necessarily approve of all that is happening, but it bound to Rhaegar both by his oath and his brotherly love for him.

The two of them build a tentative friendship, because with her sister all wrapped up in an all consuming romantic fantasy with a dragon (and for all the tower to hear, thank you very much) Lyra often feels lonely and homesick and Arthur is there to keep her company, either in the tower under the watchful eyes of this very small court, but also on long strolls on days when it feels like the walls are closing in.

We get some hints suggesting that they might be starting to get closer - and that maybe a certain Kingsguard might have had a faint un-oath-odox interest as far back as the tourney before that whole mess went down (although Lyra - optimistic at heart, but self-conscious at brain - attributed it to pity for the "Stark Spinster" back then and later as an attempt at keeping her entertained while his prince put the moves on her sister 😬)

But nothing really happens between them (maybe an almost kiss or sth, but no big relationship milestones yet). He is however the one to tell her that her father and brother were killed and throughout the rebellion news of Arthur's ongoing survival are pretty much the only silver lining to be had.

Then Rhaegar dies on the Trident, the news send Lyanna straight into early labour and we all know how that goes. Alas, we shift the timeline by a few days give or take so that when Ned arrives in Dorne, Lyanna has already been dead for a few days and Lyra has been tiptoeing her way around a breakdown trying to figure out what to do about the little crown prince when Robert Baratheon is on a "Kill all Targs" rampage through the Seven Kingdoms.

When Arthur gets near fatally wounded trying to keep his word to Rhaegar, Lyra fears she might lose the only person who knows the whole truth and who kept her somewhat sane during this time - and so she kills two birds with one stone by telling her brother that he can't kill Arthur, because they are married. And that Jon is their son.

And scene on Act I - "fake dating and co parenting shenanigans but make it fucking dark" to be commenced in Act II

[simplynotcapable]

how do you think Visenya and Baelon would've done if they got incarnated later into the Targaryen dynasty? Kids of Aegon V, or siblings of Aerys II or siblings of Rhaegar or something?

Hi anon!

I think if Baelon and Visenya were born at almost any other time (assuming Baelon was not a firstborn son), they would be largely footnotes on the grander scheme of history. Baelon doesn’t really want the throne or power, he just takes on the responsibility because he feels like it would disrespect his mother’s sacrifice to do otherwise. In a part of history where his father didn’t kill his mother for him, he’s going to care even less.

So as kids of Aegon V:

We’re assuming Baelon is born after Duncan and Jaehaerys, but even if he wasn’t our boy is probably not going to be king. Way more likely he punts it off to his younger brother.

Aegon V was very against incestuous marriages, so Baelon and Visenya would be betrothed to other people. I say that probably lasts right up until they’re 15-16 years old at most because they’re going to run off and get married. I think the difference here between them running off and Jaehaerys and Shaera doing the same thing is that Baelon and Visenya probably aren’t going to go back. Because like…what’s waiting for them there? An angry father, royal duties, responsibilities neither of them have ever really wanted or asked for? They’re going to steal a bunch of shit right before they leave the Keep, get married, and then fuck off to somewhere like Essos. They’ll live their silly little lives being in love and careless and dumb.

It’s likely they’d still be alive during Robert’s Rebellion and even for the events of the series, but I don’t think they’d involve themselves very much. Definitely not in the wars themselves because they wrote themselves out of it on purpose and also they’re old now. They don’t know any of the Targaryens still alive or particularly care about them. They don’t have the same sense of familial loyalty that they do when they’re born during the Dance, and what they did have for their siblings did not transfer over to their brother’s kids and grandkids.

Robert has people watching them undoubtedly, but I don’t think he’d try to have them killed. They’re both old and fled the throne once, there’s no indication they’d want to fight for it now.

They would support Dany’s claim, though, in a very distant “yeah hope she gets it back” kind of way, and they would be very excited at the thought of her bringing back the dragons.

Since we don’t know how the books end yet, I can’t really say for sure beyond that point, except Baelon and Visenya are perfectly happy where they are and aren’t getting involved with anything even if asked.

Siblings of Aerys II:

(We are again assuming Aerys’s younger siblings.)

Baelon and Visenya are going to be married, though we’ll leave it up in the air why Jaehaerys felt strongly enough to argue with his father about it. Maybe the wood witch’s prophecy involved them, too.

Robert’s Rebellion never happens because Baelon’s gonna kill Aerys himself.

One thing that mostly always stays the same about Baelon is that he is very protective of his sisters. Especially Visenya but all of his sisters. Baelon does not let people put their hands on his sisters, full stop, regardless of every other factor of his relationship with them. He doesn’t have a particularly close relationship with Rhaella. They aren’t even friends, really, it’s nothing like our Baelon’s relationship with Rhaenyra. But the second he finds out Aerys is abusing her, he’s a dead man.

Which is a difficult decision, no doubt, because Baelon does care about his brother in his own way, but he has been watching him spiral further and further into madness every year. And now his unhappy marriage has turned into an abusive one, and Visenya tells him that Rhaella cries in the night??

Baelon very cheerfully decides to become a kinslayer, and Visenya is basically like “okay babe be safe love you”

I’m not sure how exactly he’d manage it, being as Aerys was so damned paranoid about everything and everyone, but he’d find a way. Single-handedly saving the Targaryen dynasty by murdering his brother before he can kill Ned Stark’s dad and brother, before Rhaegar takes Lyanna. Rhaegar probably isn’t even married to Elia yet.

Downside, Dany and Viserys won’t exist because their dad is dead well before they’re supposed to be born.

Now, the real question after this is Rhaegar.

Rhaegar was reportedly very uneasy about his father but hoping to just wait him out, since Tywin was handling matters of ruling pretty well, and he didn’t want to have to move against his father. But I don’t think that would be enough to make him be like “yeah okay unc, fair enough, you’re good”, especially since Aerys wouldn’t have yet reached the height of his madness. At the very, very, very least he’d get sent to the wall, but it’s way more likely he’d be executed.

Visenya can’t go to the wall, and they can’t be together if Baelon is dead, so they must likely bolt immediately after he kills Aerys and do not come back. Unlike when they do this as Aegon V’s children, they are never going to be able to just sit still and live. They are going to spend the rest of their lives running, and whether they get caught or not entirely depends on how viciously Rhaegar decides to chase them.

Or at least a good bit of their lives, until the Long Night comes and Rhaegar has bigger problems to worry about because Baelon might have accidentally made it so the prince(ss) who was promised was never born.

(I am a firm believer that it is Dany, but I know that is only a theory so decide on that how you will.)

Rhaegar’s siblings:

This is the one case where I think that Baelon and Visenya would fight for the throne, less because they want it or care but because of the murder of their family.

I think it would be interesting if they and Dany were triplets because of the whole three-headed dragon thing, but it’s more likely they were born between Viserys and Dany.

(If they were closer in age to Rhaegar, Baelon would be on the battlefield with him and Visenya back with Elia at the Keep, so they would both be dead.)

The thing is that Baelon and Viserys are constantly at each other’s throats, because Viserys is a nasty little shit who thinks he’s special. Baelon is younger than him, and, like Aemond, he’s small until he hits puberty and has several gigantic growth spurts. Viserys is older and bigger, so for a long while of their childhood Baelon can’t really do anything when one of them “wakes the dragon” and their brother has a fit.

Once he does suddenly shoot up to significantly bigger than Viserys, the dragon wakes a lot less.

Shocker.

Viserys also initially wants to sell Visenya to the Dothraki, and when Baelon immediately has a knife pointed at him, he tells him if it isn’t Visenya then it will have to be Dany. And Baelon looks at Dany and Visenya, kind of huddled up against each other, and Dany’s thirteen. She’s a baby. His baby sister, and he loves her so much, he does.

He loves Visenya more.

He never really forgives himself for it.

He spends most of his time very drunk for a while after Dany is married, or lurking near Visenya because he’s very suspicious of the khalasar. Fights with Viserys a lot more.

Has to shove his head into a bucket of water and scream when he finds out his little sister, tiny and small and so fucking young, is pregnant. Visenya holds him, but sometimes he catches her looking at Dany with this guilt on her face.

And they both know they would be dead already, if they’d let Visenya be the one, because they couldn’t stay apart and Drogo would have caught them together, but it doesn’t make it easier.

When Viserys is killed, Dany turns to look at him. With her big eyes and her soft face, and she’s looking at him like she expects him to do something, and Baelon isn’t even thinking when he kneels.

Visenya only looks at him for a moment before she kneels too.

(“You are the elders,” Dany said, uncertainly, later that night.

“And you,” said Baelon, “are khaleesi.”)

They are, admittedly, not that upset when Drogo dies. Delighted, a little, in fact, though they hurt to see Dany hurt. She does not see the atrocities that they see when they think of her marriage, because she is young and thinks she knows love.

Baelon has never heard his sisters scream the way that they do when the baby dies.

He has never screamed the way he screams when Dany walks into the pyre.

(He has never wept the way he weeps when she walks back out.)

There are three Targaryens for three dragons, and, wherever Dany goes, it’s with Baelon on her right and Visenya on her left. It’s love, for the most part, and it’s guilt for what they allowed to happen to her, but it is loyalty as only dragons can show it.

Three dragons conquered Westeros once, and three dragons do the same all over again.

I hope this kind of answers what you were asking for?? It was fun to think about :)

[aerltarg]

Maybe this is a stupid question, buuuuut:

I just can't imagine a world that Rhaegar comes back from the Trident, wins the war and becomes king. No, I'm not a anti Rhaegar, matter of fact I like him very much, I'm just can imagine how would Lya, little Jon, this whole affair, would settle in the capital. The norm that fics (at least those I read) tend to follow is to make Rhaegar:

1. A douche, paranoid and destiny-obessed king.

2. Completely incompetent, aloof monarch, that deep down has a heart of gold, but can't really be understood.

I mean, isn't he supposed to be a scholar since he was a kid? What's are your thoughts about it?

oh, yeah, i can totally understand this! it's is the whole point in canon actually, "the wrong man came back from the trident". you would expect a hero win against his antagonist and have a happy ending w his lady love but it doesn't happen. instead the subversion happens to them with rhaegar being killed by robert who becomes obviously a shitty king and lyanna dying after him. they were never supposed to have happy ending, they were created as tragic and doomed and dead from the beginning for the whole plot to start, jon to have his parentage mystery and dany to take the passed baton as the last dragon, prophesied savoir and the heir who has to carry entire house on her back now.

as for the realistic rhaegar wins aus that's the difficult question. tbh we just don't know enough abt their situation, plans and wishes. you see, e.g. in agot we can be right in ned's head and see his motivations, what he was thinking abt, what he was planning, what he was hoping to do. but if his story was told the way rhaegar's was i bet he would have his own crowd of haters and ~intellectuals~ jumping out every two seconds w their "hot takes" how actually all hints abt what rlly happened (ned being a good man w his own sense of honour, justice and experiences affecting him and the deal w cersei's children) doesn't matter and he was an ambitious prick, planned to grasp the power by being joffrey's regent and make his daughter sansa queen. (you can actually insert there any bullshit and still don't reach the level of stupidity of such "hot takes" this fandom loves so much lmao). also he would be blamed to the hell and beyond for being too stupid and not foreseeing the future and actions of other ppl bc ofc after everything happened it's so easy to say what was so obvious to notice. also they would say that the deaths of his men and horrible fates of his kids are 100% his fault and even straight up say he killed them lmao. i can rant abt it for hours so yeah. this is a situation w too many unknown variables bc it depends too much on actions of too many characters we don't know enough abt. the only thing it's possible to tell for sure is the fact that there couldn't be any perfect solutions since things got too complicated at this point.

such fics as you've mentioned tho are just a part of this dumb fanon where rhaegar is "too prophecy obsessed"/"incapable of love"/shrodinger's rhaegar both smart and stupid at the same time/whatever/all of this combined lmfao. the man was notably intelligent from the early age as you've absolutely rightly mentioned, his guesses abt himself being tptwp have nothing to do w egocentrism as some parts of the fandom would want us all to believe unless he wouldn't be so reasonable abt it and later on, after so many years, wouldn't have changed his mind and thought his son could be tptwp.

and literally fuck all antis that think you shouldn't consider prophecies that hold real power in this fantasy world lol. you know, aegon the conqueror was said to be motivated (or at least partly) to unify westeros by the prophecy and still got the treatment of perfect/maximum close to perfect figure of a leader everyone should look up to from the narrative and grrm. prophecy obsessed much, huh? i don't even talk abt all these parallels between him and rhaegar grrm put there not for bitches to ignore them completely! and i will never get tired of reminding that dismissing prophecies is UNWISE for targaryens of all people. the house whose story is built on the dream of young daenys and her father aenar that listened to her despite common sense (or what local "anti magic"/"anti prophecies" clowns consider to be common sense). targs would be as dead as the rest of dragonlords if not for daenys the dreamer. who else in the world has as many reasons to take prophecies seriously as them?

yet antis out there act as if rhaegar is one dimensional weirdo whose every character trait is abt mf ~prophecy obsession~. like how can they miss one of the main points so badly?? the game of thrones distracts ppl from the real danger beyond the wall, yk, the one rhaegar was aware of and meant to deal with. there wouldn't be such a problem if he became king and had as many years of head start before ice zombies apocalypse as ignorant bobby b did. rhaegar had to die just for westeros to sink in shit and our main heroes to save everyone to make this story more epic LMAO

so yeah, too many ppl portray rhaegar as this one dimensional robotic creature without any knowledge of what feelings are idk even for what reason. it seems these ppl can't read for real bc rhaegar was not only intelligent af as well as dutiful ("it seems i must be a warrior" but "he loved his harp more than his lance") but also. ugh emotional?? my boy had constant emo sessions w brooding at ruins of summerhall, sleeping out there beneath the stars all alone and writing songs that made all women cry. does it sound as someone who "isn't capable of love" lol? folks act as if he was completely heartless from the day he was born (bc he didnt play w other kids ig??) but in reality their emotional range is less than the one of a spoon in comparison to rhaegar's lol. i'm not even gonna address the horrible attitude of demonizing him for his implied depression, vile clowns never listen to themselves when they talk abt targaryens and their "madness".

tldr; these fics are mostly lame af and suck at characterization if they're making rhaegar like that lol. anyway his character isn't abt being a good or a bad king, it's abt being a would-be-king for characters in books and readers in reality to sigh over his tragic aura and pretty aesthetic abt how it could've been. however, grrm clearly doesn't write rhaegar as evil or incapable as some parts of the fandom would want to try to persuade others. realistically speaking in the scenario where he wins there couldn't be any perfect decisions but it's a territory of speculations on thin air and lit nothing more since canon doesn't provide us with enough information to rlly theorize anything instead of building biased headcanons some ppl call "analysis".

but remember what barristan said about rhaegar while practically watching him all his life, from a literal baby to the man grown:

“I know little of Rhaegar. Only the tales Viserys told, and he was a little boy when our brother died. What was he truly like?”

The old man considered a moment. “Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded.” (ASOS, Daenerys I)

“Prince Rhaegar’s prowess was unquestioned, but he seldom entered the lists. He never loved the song of swords the way that Robert did, or Jaime Lannister. It was something he had to do, a task the world had set him. He did it well, for he did everything well. That was his nature. But he took no joy in it. Men said that he loved his harp much better than his lance.” (ASOS, Daenerys IV)

[amaidasfairassummer]

Updated- A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE THE MUSICAL!

Various songs from existing musicals brought together to tell the story Asoiaf, including some pre-series stuff. Obvs some of this doesn’t translate literally, some of the songs I chose more for the vibe rather than specifically relevant lyrics, and some are pretty much just jokes.

- Aerys- “Johanna” from Sweeney Todd 

- Tyrion’s birth- “Miracle” from Matilda (mostly the last couple of minutes).

- Baby innocent optimistic Tyrion before Tywin fucked him up- “Naughty” from Matilda.

- Also baby Tyrion- “Quiet” from Matilda.

- Elia @ Rhaegar- “No Way” from Six.

- Robert and Ned during the rebellion- “You and Me (But Mostly Me)” from The Book of Mormon. With Robert as elder price and Ned as elder Cunningham of course. Also kind of works for robert and stannis I guess 

- The rebellion- ABC cafe, Les Miserables

- Rebellion-era Robert- “Gaston” from Beauty and the Beast. 

- The siege of Storm’s End- “Those Canaan Days” from Joseph 

- Stannis meeting Davos- “Pulled” from the Addams Family musical

- Stannis- “Stars” from Les Miserables because he’s got Javert vibes.

- Lysa being made to marry Jon A- “I Don’t Need Your Love” from Six.

- Tyrion and Tysha meeting- “Love is an open door” from Frozen the musical 

- Tyrion and Tysha’s elopement- “A Million Dreams” from The Greatest Showman, “Marry for Love” from Cinderella fro (or for a modern au, “Wishing for the Normal” from Soho Cinders).

- Tysha after the elopement- “I Dreamed A Dream” from Les Miserables

- Ramsay @ Roose after murdering Domeric- “One More Angel in Heaven” from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat.

- Catelyn- “How Do You Solve A Problem Like [Arya]” from The Sound of Music.

- Jaime and Cersei- “Our Love Is God” from Heathers.

- Sansa during her and Joff’s courtship- “I can hear the bells” from Hairspray and “I Feel Pretty” from West Side Story (this could be repeated with her when loras gives her the rose during the tourney actually). 

- Cat saying goodbye to Bran- (parts of) “Heart of Stone” from Six.

- Bran coming out of his coma dream- “Defying Gravity” from Wicked (he probably also reprises this when he learns to warg into birds)

- Arya and Syrio’s “dancing” lessons- “I’ll Make A Man Out Of You” from Mulan.

- Petyr @ Catelyn- “I’m Not Saying A Word” from Blood Brothers.

- Petyr @ Sansa- “Hello, Little Girl” from Into The Woods.

- Tyrion every time he’s in a jail cell- “Close Every Door To Me” from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat.

- Cersei after Robert’s death- “Get Down” from Six.

- Theon and Robb- “That Guy” from Blood Brothers.

- Cat after Ned’s death- “The Cold, Hard Ground” from Treason the musical

- The northern lords @ Robb in the King in the North scene- “Take Things Into Our Own Hands” from Treason and “Once We Were Kings” from Billy Elliot.

- Theon finding out he’s going back to the iron islands- “I can go the distance” from Hercules. 

- Inroducing Davos and his family- “Jacob and Sons” from Joseph. 

- Renly and loras, and renly deciding to be king- “The Promise” from Treason the musical 

- Renly in ACOK- “You Don’t Even Know It” from Everybody’s Talking About Jaime 

- Loras and Brienne about Renly, and davos and mel about stannis- “Blind Faith” from Treason. 

- Robb and Cleos Frey- “Farmer refuted” from Hamilton

- Joffrey when he finds out about northern independence- “You’ll Be Back” from Hamilton.

- Bran, Rickon and the Walders- “Kids’ Game” from Blood Brothers.

- Bran @ Jojen in ACOK- “Song of the King” from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat.

- About Sam after he killed the Other- “Zero To Hero” from Hercules.

- Theon in ACOK- “My Shot” from Hamilton and “Damned for All Time” from Jesus Christ Superstar 

- Sansa and Sandor in ACOK- “Angel of Music” from The Phantom of the Opera and “Something There” from Beauty and the Beast.

- @ Sansa in King’s Landing- “School Song” from Matilda.

- The people of King’s Landing during ACOK- “At The End Of The Day” from Les Miserables and “Food, Glorious Food” from Oliver!

- Sansa and Sandor during the Battle of Blackwater- “Music Of The Night” from The Phantom of the Opera.

- Margaery’s arrival in King’s Landing- “New Girl In Town” from Hairspray.

- Jaime (not really sure when)- “Wait For It” from Hamilton.

- Devan telling Davos about his brothers dying- “[Four] More Angels In Heaven,” from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat, a really heartbreaking version of Ramsay’s song earlier, made 100% times sadder because four people are dead not one and... devan is actually genuinely sad/isn’t responsible for the deaths instead of faking.

- About Davos as Hand (also kind of him being knighted for saving storm’s end- “Stone the Crows” from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat.

- Ygritte @ Jon- “Colours Of the Wind” from Pocahontas.

- The slaves of Slavers Bay- “Look Down” from Les Miserables.

- Jaime and Brienne- “I Can Do Without You” from Calamity Jane.

- Theon finding out about Robb’s death- “Judas’s death” from Jesus Christ Superstar 

- Cat as Lady Stoneheart- “Heart of Stone” from Six. Again.

- Purple Wedding- “The Day [Joffrey] Died” from Treason.

- Shae @ Tyrion- “Mein Herr” from Cabaret.

- Tyrion and Tywin- “Your Obedient Servant” from Hamilton. I know this doesn’t really reflect their story but there are just bits like “here’s an itemised list of thirty years of disagreements” “sweet Jesus” and “you call me immoral, a dangerous disgrace” and them both signing their names “T. Lann” which fit well.

-Varys and his little birds- “Be Back Soon” from Oliver!

- The Lannisters at some point- “Roar” from & Juliet and also “Be Prepared” from The Lion King. And for a modern au “Candy Store” from Heathers.

- Tommen in AFOC- “I Just Can’t Wait To Be King [In My Own Right]” from The Lion King.

- Asha, Arianne and Aegon in AFFC/ADWD- “Don’t Rain On My Parade” from Funny Girl.

- Genna- “Big, Blonde and Beautiful” from Hairspray.

- Sansa- “I Know Things Now” from Into The Woods and “All You Wanna Do” from Six.

- Melisandre during her POV chapter- “I Believe” from The Book Of Mormon.

- Arianne- “Speechless” from Aladdin

- Tyrion in ADWD- “Til I Hear You Sing” from Love Never Dies.

- Penny- “Little People” from Les Miserables.

- Shireen in Castle Back- “Giants In The Sky” from Into The Woods.

- Shireen, Devan and Edric at some point- “Revolting Children” from Matilda, because even though it doesn’t really fit it would be epic.

- Arya- “Reflections” from Mulan 

- The “killed their spouse/lover crew” aka Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime, Petyr, Lysa and Victarion- “Cell Block Tango” from Chicago.

- Jon about Dany in ADOS- “Heaven On Their Minds” from Jesus Christ Superstar.

- “The Last Supper” from Jesus Christ Superstar, with Dany and Jon doing the Judas/Jesus bits and the Lannisters as the apostles.

- Dany in ADOS- “Gethsamane” from Jesus Christ Superstar.

1 note

[a-secret-bolton-vampire]

Daenerys Stormborn, Part 1: From Pentos, to Vaes Dothrak, from Qarth, to Slaver's Bay

I've decided since this tiny post; I'll write about Dany. But there's so much I can talk about that I will most likely write between other essays (unless I feel otherwise). Daenerys Targaryen is my favourite character in ASOIAF. She's an incredibly complex character, and one whose fate interests me quite a lot. Of all the endings in the show, Dany's made me the saddest and angriest. Not only did they rush and make her turn a "twist" that happened on a dime, but it fed into the Mad Queen theories that I really despised.

Can't a powerful women with dragons not go mad with power and become prone to hysteria? Also, can said woman not be murdered by her lover/nephew as a way to give said lover more pain instead of having any meaningful end to her arc? And can said woman not have been "an insane tyrant the whole time"? I may one day vent on season 8, but I won't. Instead, I want to attempt to make sense of the ending we saw in the show, and how it applies to the books. Bit by bit, I will build up to Dany's ultimate role in the series. But first, we need to set the groundwork for it.

(CW: Rape)

The Last Dragon

The first we see of Daenerys, she is a very shy girl who was under the thumb of her physically and psychologically abusive brother Viserys. With no agency, she was married off as essentially a marital slave to be raped by Khal Drogo. However, after some meaningful dragon dreams, Dany began to try and take advantage of her surroundings to give herself power. Of course, Viserys didn't like this very much. Dany was everything Viserys wasn't.

Whereas Viserys was incredibly narcissistic and had no real feelings for anyone other than himself, Daenerys shows empathy to those lower than her. While Viserys was prone to violent outbursts of intense rage and did not think things through very well, Dany is more measured, perceptive, and intelligent (not to say she's infallible, nobody in this world is infallible). As Daenerys became more and more loved by Drogo and the Dothraki, Viserys found himself jealous that she was better received than him, the lawful heir to the Targaryen dynasty.

This culminated in Viserys threatening to cut Rhaego out from her, and Drogo pouring molten gold onto his face to kill him. Good riddance, fuck Viserys. Anyways, she then tries to convince Drogo to cross the narrow sea to invade Westeros, but he stubbornly refuses until an assassin hired by Robert attempts to poison her and is caught, at which point he vows to do so. In her first real experience with war, when the khalasar sacks a Lhazareen village, Dany is disturbed to see all the innocent men being massacred and the women being gang raped, so she decides to take the women under her protection, which earns her resentment from some of Drogo's bloodriders.

I don't think Dany was quite aware of what war and conquest would look like until the village, and she was horrified by what she saw. During the sack, Drogo was wounded slaying Khal Ogo, and with Dany's urging, one of the women she took under her protection, Mirri Maz Duur, agreed to heal his wound. Of course, being a maegi, she is hated and not trusted by the Dothraki. Regardless, Mirri heals Drogo's wounds and they continue on until Drogo collapses from a fever, having removed the poultice of his wound.

From there, Dany's hold on the khalasar is weakening. Her power is really tied to Drogo's, as Dothraki society is extremely misogynistic and views women as lesser beings. Desperate to save him, she turns to Mirri for any magic she could use to heal him. This decision is what finally breaks the khalasar, several of the bloodriders try to kill her, and in that time, another one of the women Dany rescued, Eroeh, was gang raped and murdered by Jhaqo and Pono. The result is Daenerys being left with what can't be more than 100 people out of the original 100,000 or so people in the khalasar.

However, Dany suffers another crushing loss; her child Rhaego. While Mirri says that death may pay for life, and she sacrifices Drogo's horse, the real price was Dany's unborn child. She did so because Rhaego was to be the stallion who mounts the world, a prophesied leader of all Dothraki who would become a great conqueror. In addition, Drogo is "healed", but permanently left in a catatonic state. When Dany asks Mirri when he will be back to normal, Mirri says;

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Dany seems to take this to mean "never", and is heartbroken, so she mercy kills him by smothering him with a pillow.

Throughout the first book, Dany has a series of dreams and visions involving dragons, the most telling of which was her "wake the dragon" fever dream she had during Mirri's ritual. As a result, and to get vengeance for her husband and child, Dany decides to tie Mirri on a stake to Drogo's funeral pyre, as well as placing the dragon eggs with Drogo. Then, when it is lit, and Mirri burns alive, Dany walks into the flames. Everyone thinks she is mad, that she is out of her mind, but Dany seems to think this is all part of her destiny.

And sure enough, when the fire burns out, she is unburnt (save for her hair), and she has three newly hatched dragons. The "wake the dragon" dream also features, near the end, her opening the red door of the house she stayed in as a young child in Braavos, and finding herself under the visor of Rhaegar's helmet, as Jorah repeats "the last dragon". Dany's journey in the first book is about taking control of herself and her family's legacy.

Early on, she realizes that Viserys will never conquer the Seven Kingdoms, and although Viserys originally had Dany marry Drogo to get an army of his own, the khalasar eventually became Dany's army. And when Viserys died, Dany decided it was her responsibility to do what he could not; take back the Iron Throne for her family. And then, at her absolute lowest, when she has lost practically the entire khalasar, her husband, her child, she gains three dragons.

Viserys believed that his name made him a Targaryen, that being King meant he was a true Targaryen. His anger was a tool to assert his dominance as a Targaryen, to get others to bend to his will. He has immense pride for his family, which turned into unchecked narcissism. But for all his talk, Viserys was no true Targaryen, and no true dragon. Dany even thinks this just after he dies.

He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.

Dany has brought dragons back to the world, a symbol of the power Targaryens had, back to life. She was not killed by the fire of Drogo's pyre (of course, she isn't fireproof, this was a one time weird occurrence). She is a true dragon, a true Targaryen, who is truly following in the footsteps of her family.

The Lost Dragon

During the Drogo pyre fire (hah), a red comet appeared in the sky. Believing that she has a bigger purpose, and that the comet was sent for her, she and her khalasar follow it, into the Red Waste. Despite thinking this is a sign for her future, she is mostly lost and unsure what to do. With enemies all around, the Red Waste is the only way to go. They find the abandoned city of what she calls Vaes Tolorro, and she sends out her bloodriders to look for what is around.

Eventually, Jhogo returns with three representatives of Qarth; Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, and Quaithe. They bring her back to Qarth, where she is showered with gifts and given part of Xaro's own palace to stay at. She begs an audience with the Pureborn, the descendants of the kings and queens of Qarth, but they reject her plea for aid in conquering Westeros. Xaro meanwhile suggests marriage, but only as a means to steal her dragons for himself. Quaithe gives very cryptic and vague as hell prophecies to Dany.

With no one left to turn to for aid, Dany decides to seek answers from the warlocks at the House of the Undying, drinking shade of the evening and having numerous visions. When she finally finds the Undying, they seem to be trying to steal her life force, only for Drogon to set them alight. After that, with no way to leave Qarth and refusal to be sent off with any ships, Dany is stuck, and is the subject of an assassination attempt by the Sorrowful Men, sent by Pyat Pree, only for it to be thwarted thanks to Barristan.

On surface level, Dany's ACOK arc is less eventful and straightforward than AGOT; she remains in roughly a single location the entire time, with only two major events occurring (the Undying visions & the attempted assassination). However, after such a journey in AGOT, it makes sense for her story to slow down a bit before speeding back up in ASOS. After finally embracing the responsibility of carrying the Targaryen legacy her brother failed to live to, Dany now has to deal with the fact of how important she is and what her next moves are.

Despite Qarth being so beautiful and splendid, with seemingly everyone ready to provide aid for her quest to conquer Westeros, it is all an illusion. They see someone who is now one of the most powerful people in the world, someone they can use to manipulate for their own ends and gain power for themselves. Quaithe tells Dany as much:

Last of the three seekers to depart was Quaithe the shadowbinder. From her Dany received only a warning. "Beware," the woman in the red lacquer mask said. "Of whom?" "Of all. They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power."

Dany thinks to herself that there must've been a reason the comet led her to Qarth, as part of her belief that she is heavily tied to destiny.

"The comet led me to Qarth for a reason. I had hoped to find my army here, but it seems that will not be. What else remains, I ask myself?"

So what was the reason she was in Qarth? In my opinion, it was partly to teach her a lesson in not trusting people, but mostly knowledge. The House of the Undying is a massive moment in the series, as it lays out many future events of the series before us (and her!) that are very cryptic and hard to uncover. I will one day examine the full scope of the visions of the Undying, but I want to focus on the narrative reason for this.

Daenerys has a strong sense of destiny. The hatching of the dragons, the red comet, the visions, they all have to mean something, lead toward this grand destiny of hers. I think that a lot (but not all) of the visions Dany experiences are relevant to her future, and lay out a lot of what she will experience/do in the last two books. The prophecies she learns (especially concerning being the "slayer of lies", "three treasons", "three fires", and "three mounts") stay with her into ADWD, where Quaithe once again appears and asks she remember the Undying.

Prophecies are also very common in Greek tragedies, and also appears in Macbeth, a tragedy written by Shakespeare, wherein Macbeth seeks out the knowledge of the witches again out of fear that he will lose his position as king. Daenerys is aware that there will be three treasons committed against her, as well as three fires she will light, and three mounts she will ride, and that there are three heads of the dragon. She constantly considers in ADWD whether these prophecies are coming true, that she finds confusing and suspicious, frustrated even.

In short, the Undying is not just a window into the future, but more of an exploration of the effect prophecy has on a young person like Daenerys who so strongly believes in destiny. She also learns in a vision of Rhaegar about something called "the song of ice and fire", which seems to be extremely significant, and that she will be at the centre of the climactic events of the series.

In the end, it is not herself or the Qartheen who get her out of Qarth, but a disguised Barristan Selmy, sent with three ships by Illyrio to bring her back to Pentos. Dissatisfied with her time in Qarth, she decides to return to Pentos with Barristan... but Pentos is not where she ends up, not even close.

The New Dragon

After leaving Qarth and the return west, Jorah, mistrustful of Illyrio, instead convinces Dany to turn the ships to Astapor and buy Unsullied slave soldiers to help in her conquest of Westeros. Stopping by Astapor, she finds a hellish place, red bricks, tortured slaves, and narcissistic slave masters who have no regard or empathy for anyone other than themselves. Disgusted by what she has seen, Dany formulates a plan entirely in her own head; she decides to buy all the Unsullied by giving Drogon over to Kraznys.

Only she didn't. She only did that to gain control of the Unsullied, before burning the masters and freeing all the slaves. As she tells Xaro later in ADWD, despite being surrounded by slaves with the Dothraki and in Qarth, she did not see how horrible it could be until she got to Astapor and saw how the slaves were tortured. She had the power to try to end it, and decided to take it upon her hands. So instead of heading to Westeros, she decides to liberate Yunkai and Meereen as well.

It's easy to be frustrated at Dany's Essos arc, especially since it doesn't really interact with the Westerosi plot where the majority of the action is taking place, but I think it's important that Dany repeatedly is given an option to go to Westeros, but instead stays in Essos. Progressions in real life are rarely linear, and I applaud GRRM for being able to have clear character arcs while not having the progression be entirely linear and staying true to life.

After Astapor, Yunkai fears what will happen to them as she approaches and hires two sellsword companies for aid. Instead, Dany purposefully lies to the Yunkish envoy and the sellswords, and gives the later wine to get drunk on (and an offer to join her) while she attacks at night. Daario, a lieutenant of the Stormcrows, is won over by Daenerys, kills his fellow captains, and defects to her side. Yunkai is defeated, and the slaves are let go. However, unlike Astapor, Dany does not put an end to the Wise Masters. For this, she is hailed by the freedmen as "mhysa!" or "mother". The Second Sons also join Daenerys after the battle.

Then they move on to Meereen, who has decided to crucify a little slave girl for each mile as a marker from Yunkai to Meereen. When she arrives, the Meereenese champion is easily defeated, and Mero, the former captain of the Second Sons, attempts to kill Dany in her camp, but is promptly killed by Arstan Whitebeard, who is then revealed to be Barristan, who reveals Jorah has been spying on Daenerys for King Robert.

Daenerys takes Meereen and crucifies the 162 Great Masters as retribution for the 162 slave girls crucified. When Barristan explains why he did not tell her who he was, she accepts and forgives him, but she finds she cannot forgive Jorah and banishes him. And of course, instead of leaving for Westeros, she decides to stay in Meereen, after learning that Astapor has been left in the hands of a butcher king named Cleon, overthrowing a council she had instilled when she left, and proposing war against Yunkai, which she just liberated.

Worried about what the effects would be if she simply left Meereen for Westeros, she decides to stay in Meereen and rule as its queen. I decided to call this section "the new dragon" because of Daenerys dismantling an institution her own ancestors helped found. The Ghiscari of Old Ghis had slavery of their own, which they ended up teaching to their new conquerors, the Valyrians. Then, after the Doom, slavery continued again, only this time it was now being practiced by the Free Cities, who are in constant trading with the masters of Slaver's Bay.

As she notes, they keep to the Ghiscari gods, and their symbol is of the harpy, a symbol of Old Ghis, but they no longer speak Ghiscari, instead speaking High Valyrian. Slavery was something the dragonlords of Old Valyria engaged in routinely, and that legacy is still all over Essos. In a way, she is undoing the sins of her ancestors past, and trying to make the world a better place and fighting injustice by using her dragons.

In contrast to ACOK, where she seems as yet undecided on what exactly her destiny is, she seems to be taking control of it in ASOS, becoming Mhysa, the Breaker of Chains, a saviour to those who have been enslaved. It is at this point that she starts to gain a serious following, one that I only assume will continue to grow in Essos. Because of her actions in fighting against slavery, she not only becomes a real saviour to the freedmen, but she also becomes a messianic figure to the followers of R'hllor, as a reincarnation of Azor Ahai.

This is where Dany goes from being simply the last Targaryen, the last dragon, and into a legendary, almost mythic, god-like figure. In my future essays, I will expand upon this aspect of her, since it is going to be really important moving forward, but the start of that is here in ASOS. And thus, this will be where I am concluding part 1. AGOT had Daenerys starting low, but eventually learning to rise up and realize she has to be the one to carry on the Targaryen legacy, after knowing Viserys would never live up to it.

ACOK had Dany questioning her destiny, as well as figuring out what her next step is after the miraculous birth of her dragons. And ASOS concludes her act 1 arc, by having her take control of her destiny and becoming a truly legendary figure who is changing the world. In part 2, I will be discussing in depth the thematic and personal struggles Daenerys faces as she is ruling Meereen in ADWD, and what those struggles and their resolution means for her future.

[sunontherhoyne]

I don’t mean to come across as aggressive here, but one thing that irks me about the majority of the Dornish fandom is that I feel Lyanna doesn’t get enough blame as she should.

She just sounds like an unpleasant girl: immature, judgmental and hypocritical. (Sticking your tongue out and pouring wine on someone, wtf is wrong with you?)

In my opinion, 14 to 15 is old enough to know right from wrong. Running to Dorne, while knowingly cheating on its Princess is sickening.

Did she have any twinge of conscience or guilt while her Father and Brother were killed because of her choice, as well as thousands more? Her words weren’t “I’m so sorry, Ned” it was “Promise me, Ned” as if Ned owed her anything after what she’d caused.

And she had the nerve to criticise Robert for doing what most young men did, having one bastard girls. What logic is in place that you’d resent a man for doing that to you, but you have no issue doing it to someone else.

I’m sorry, maybe I’m projecting my own certain family issues here, but I don’t think being that age exempts or excuses responsibility. She reminds me of the sports girls who’d be all “pseudo feminist” while bullying the quiet and feminine girls in school as being beneath her. She gives me that vibe.

In my opinion, Lyanna is as bad as Rhaegar.

That scene where Stannis is like “If all of Westeros just had one neck”, that’s me when I see the ASOIAF fandom say “Elia was fine with it because she’s Dornish”

Fuck. Sorry

I've spent awhile trying to decide whether to get into this or not, but I'll just briefly get into it here. Please don't take this as an invitation to send me a bunch of discourse guys, I am just tired of it all.

The thing is that we mostly look at Rhaegar and realize that he's the one with the power in this situation. He's the 20+ year old man, he's the heir to the throne, he's the one with a bunch of knights that's sworn to be loyal only to him/will swear to be loyal only to him in the future. Looking at that, it's hard not to shift the vast majority of the blame on him.

Lyanna was an immature, naive girl, but she was also a dumb teenager. I personally would rather smack sense into her rather than just lock her up somewhere like I do a lot of teenagers I've seen.

She was a hypocrite, yes, I doubt any of us in the Dorne fandom is denying that. I just feel that a lot of us look at her and look at Rhaegar and can't help but pity her. Should she have known right from wrong? Yes. Have I known a lot of teenagers in real life that need to grow up some more and learn to think and thus think what we see of her is pretty accurate teenage behavior? Yes.

For what it's worth, my feelings on Lyanna are neutral and bordering on dislike. I don't care about her, I just don't see why she's worse than Rhaegar.

Everyone is free to have their own opinions though, and I can completely see where you're coming from anon, because nothing you've said is wrong, everyone just has their own interpretations on things ^^

[testingcheats0n]

Eddard III

This is iiiiit. This is the chapter I don't like to think about, and the episode I always skip. Lady fucking dies in this one- Sansa's identity as a Stark is dead by Ned's hand. From this day on Sansa is a blank slate, she can adapt and like a chameleon, gain the colors of her surroundings. Golden lions, and roses- black stags, and all other kinds of beasts, Sansa will try to be them all.

So. Arya is found, since she ran away last time, and she returns without her Nymeria. Again, she is leaving things behind since she reached the South. In any case, she, Sansa, and Joffrey are stood in front of the King to await judgement. Ngl, it's ridiculous. It's certainly not what Robert imagined when he smashed Rhaegar's rubies in the fork. It's just... silly. Cersei made sure to make it as uncomfortable and in her favor as possible. Sansa lied, and if she hadn't, Cersei's, and Joffrey's word is above Sansa or Arya's. Take in mind we're talking about two 12 y/o and a 9 y/o girl. Like even Joffrey does as his mother told him, he's vicious, but he still can't make decisions on his own, 'cause... he's a child. She planned it for her own amusement, the vicious sow. Even this early we see how she likes to please her own ego, and prefers grander shows of meaningless power over practical decisions with a solid strategy behind them that will benefit those around her and even herself. This made the Starks hate her and plot against her, she showed weakness in loyalty in front of other nobility, and didn't actually accomplish a modicum of justice. Tywin is a shit parent, and no wonder his dynasty was doomed to fail.

Anyway. Cersei is a bitch as she has always been and always will be -idk why some people are like oooh we first see the Lannisters through the Starks' POV obviously their evilness was exaggerated- No it wasn't. You dunce. Cersei literally had a vendetta against two kids and a dog. She's nuts, and she has no empathy, her fetishes are immoral and she is too ambitious for her own stupidity. Jaime is also a POS, albeit an amusing one, Tyrion is an insecure asshole, and we've heard nothing good of Tywin. They are, indeed, the bad guys- dark grey ones as all humans, but still pretty dark.

Anyway. Ned does his duty with typical Northern stoicism. Lady dies with a whimper and good manners. This chapter is mostly foreshadowing, symbolism and worldbuilding. Oh and by the way, the Darrys- the owners of the castle where this whole fiasco happened- watched on with glee. As Targaryen loyalists seeing Starks, Lannisters and Baratheons fight must have been a good show. They also hide tapestries of the Targaryens, their walls are bare when Ned visits- he's too worried about Arya to give it much thought though.

The Hound also returns with his own kill, and he's very done with this all. People think he enjoyed going after Mycah, but knowing him he couldn't be fucked chasing a peasant boy through the woods all night for some dumb shit like that. Cersei ordered to go after him to wave her dick around even more in front of the Starks- by the way, Cersei Lannister has Small Dick energy. Ned, of course has Big Dick Energy.

[sanjuno]

Did you have a fic idea were Ned Stark was sent back in time but as a woman? Was it you or was just something I dreamt of?

I did, gimmie a second... ah, here it is:

Wolf At The Door: When Ice takes the head of Eddard Stark, Valeryian magic mixes with the Blood of the First Men. It’s wild, uncontrolled, and Ned ends up as a four year old in Winterfell’s Godswood, staring at his reflection in the water. Eddara Stark, second-born child and first-born daughter of Rikard and Lyarra Stark looks back up at him. Ned, fully believing that this is his punishment for failing his family and best friend the first time around, decides to fix the Realm by fulfilling the Pact of Fire and Ice. The thing about being a woman is that no one ever expects you to be a threat, not even other women. The thing about being the Quiet Wolf is that everyone overlooks you until the moment your teeth sink into their throat.

To expand on the story, Ned publicly makes an old First Man oath that basically informs the entire North that “she’s” got the soul of a man, which means Ned gets mostly treated like a man by the Northerners. Only the North calls them “Sword Maidens” rather than trans. Anyway that’s why Ned doesn’t have a betrothal in the wings after being reborn.

Note that Ned does not get fostered out, because the North has a history of “Sword Maidens” but they still aren’t all that educated about gender theory. Which is there the “mostly” treated like a man fits in.

At Harrenhal Ned takes Lyanna’s place as the Knight of the Laughing Tree, admits to “her” identity when the Mad King tells her to take her helmet off, and accidentally seduces Elia Martell during the feast. Ned’s basically a straight man in the body of a woman so do not expect Ned to feel anything for Rhaegar aside from bitter resentment and vague pity that he’s being cuckolded by his “wives”.

Because yeah, Mad King Aerys decides that Ned’s got so much “fire” that “she's” going to be Rhaegar’s second wife. Part of the decision even makes a bit of political sense, given that the North is fucking huge and as far from Dorne as you can get and still be in Westros. 

The North is basically going “... eww...” when the marriage announcement goes out because they know that Ned’s a straight dude on the inside, but Rickard can’t tell the King to fuck off without kicking off a war. And so Ned’s all stoic nobility and self sacrificing martyrdom when “she” tells her dad agree to the betrothal. Because fuck you Rhaegar you don’t get to ruin Ned’s baby sister a second time.

Lyanna is cis, so she’s still gotta get married the way noble girls tend to, but Ned manages to convince their father to marry Lyanna into the North. Specifically, Lyanna marries Jorah Mormont in the hopes that a wife with more interest in swords than silks will keep him from being dumb and getting exiled.

Because Ned never fostered with Robert, there was never a betrothal between Robert and Lyanna, so Robert never “lost the love of his life”. So when Robert eventually gets around to marrying there won’t be any ghosts souring the marriage before it even starts.

Ned brings a real Weirwood sapling with “her” to King’s Landing and plants it in the Godswood of the Red Keep. Ned also has a bunch of First Man spells learned from the memories stored in the Weirwood trees. Because Ned was promised that he would get his children back if he agreed to go back in time and make sure that the Prince Who Was Promised shanks the Night King.

Ned agrees because that means Jon’s really going to be his son and he’s actually kinda excited about that.

Basically what I’m saying here is that Ned has a veritable litter of children with red or black hair and makes sure to add Elia’s blood to the mix through the liberal use of Northern Magic because the less Targaryen blood his kids have to deal with the better.

Robb and Jon are going to be twins. Robb with weirsap red hair and violet eyes rather than the Tully looks he had last time. Jon will still be “all Stark” with black hair and grey eyes. The rest of the kids follow the same theme, with the redhead’s hair being the same shade as Weirwood leaves and violet eyes substituted for blue.

It’s ironic that that Ageon is the Crown Prince and the only one of Rhaegar’s children with the Targaryen look. *cackles*

I’m not going to have Ned’s kids remember anything about the first timeline but the Old Gods are going to cheat a little bit and give them “Greendreams” to teach them the skills they learned in canon. Which means Ned’s kids are OP as all get out and he’s unrepentantly smug about that. XD

The working title I had for this AU was “Ned Stark Does Not Wear Skirts”. And props to Ned he does actually manage to avoid wearing skirts for most of his second life.

[atopvisenyashill]

Who has it worst? Genderflip!Robert or Stannis as Rhaegar's Baratheon bride? Like I doubt either would be very happy in their marriage but how does the rebellion play out?

I think girl Stannis honestly.

Girl Robert would be, at least I imagine she’d be, like kind of an Alyssa Targaryen esque lady who tries to wear armor and loves to fuck and drink. I think Rhaegar would see her as a very strong Valyrian woman who would give him the kids he needs for his prophecy. While Robert would find the prophecy stuff weird as SHIT I think they’d probably be like, mostly okay, especially if Robert has three kids. And Lyanna would be a different problem - by that I mean she’s engaged to someone else, it MIGHT be stannis but it might not bc stannis & ned are NOT gonna be besties in the vale the way nedbert were. Would Rhaegar still try something stupid? I mean yeah, but we’re looking at a wildly different type of rebellion here that MIGHT not even be HIS fault. I think a girl Robert could wind up being crafty enough - kinda like a Sabitha Frey or Johanna Lannister - to get herself out of that sort of situation alive, if the issue is Aerys’ madness and not Rhaegar’s. If we assume Robert only has two kids, and Rhaegar still makes off with Lyanna, the rebellion is in the hands of Stannis and Ned, and if they roll up to the capital and Tywin has killed Stannis’ older sister…I mean that feels like Tywin has a suicide wish ya kno lol, like I think he’d handle that way different. Altho even then, I mean, Robert is the face of the rebellion because if the Lyanna connection. If Stannis isn’t engaged, is he even a big part of the rebellion? I think he’d join the rebellion bc of the murders of Brandon, Rickard, et al, but I think this becomes The Stark Rebellion.

But girl Stannis…..I mean listen we don’t know why Stannis doesn’t like sex. Maybe hes gay. Maybe he’s asexual. Maybe he just has a low sex drive but wouldn’t identify with either of those labels. Maybe he’s mostly shooting blanks and Shireen was dumb luck. Point is I don’t think it’s likely a girl Stannis is going to like sex any more, and I think she’s going to resent Rhaegar a lot. Even if she has three kids, and the rebellion is all Aerys’ fault, she’s having a rough time. But if she only has two kids, things could go roughly the same as in canon…and having Robert’s sister in hand is going to make Aerys CRAZY when the rebellion kicks off. Not only that, but Rhaegar making a pass at his wife’s soon to be sister in law? Oh my god. Just tacky ass behavior. Girl Stannis is fucjing miserable and in a lot more danger from her father in law bc it’s her brother who is waging war against the crown. Messy messy.

[fuckallthegood0nesweretaken]

The Dove and Her Hound - CH. TwentySeven

Title: Swear It

Words: 1,677

Warnings: Swearing

A/N: Sorry for the late update! I’ve been looking for jobs (even though there aren’t any) and trying to remain sane while locked up in my house with my entire family. I’ve also been trying to write more things to give y’all more content. I’m going to make a whole different post about that, so go give it a look! Enjoy the chapter! 

Taglist:  @tonbluemchen @affection-rabbit @art-flirt @10morgan10 @thatting @iwontdance-dontaskme @simsvetements

Previous Chapter - Next Chapter

Sandor Masterlist

Game of Thrones Masterlist

Masterlist

~~~~~~~

“Half are gone,” Greyworm said as he took some markers off of the war map.

 “The Northmen as well,” Jon said. Yhon Royce grabbed some as well as a member of the Dothraki.

 “And the Golden Company has arrived in King’s Landing.” Varys put a marker down. “Courtesy of the Greyjoy Fleet.”

 “The balance is growing even,” you mused.

 “We will rip her out. Root and stem,” Daenerys said, eyes straightforward.

“The objective here is to remove Cersei from King’s Landing without destroying the city.” Tyrion looked up at Daenerys and all she did was throw daggers with her eyes.

 “Thankfully, she’s losing allies every day. Yara Greyjoy has retaken the Iron Islands in the name of her Queen, Daenerys of House Targaryen. The new Prince of Dorne has also pledged his support.”

 “It won’t matter how many Lords or Houses turn against her. As long as she sits on the Iron Throne, she can call herself Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.”

 “So you’re saying that we need the Capital,” you said.

 “Yes.”

 “I’ve seen the people of King’s Landing rebel against their King when they were hungry. And that was before Winter began. Give them the opportunity and they will cast Cersei aside in favor of you,” Tyrion said. You could tell that he didn’t want the people to become collateral damage. He wanted as little death and destruction as possible.

 “So we surround the city. If the Iron Fleet tries to ferry in more food, we’ll burn them with the dragons,” Jon said.

 “And if the Lannisters or the Golden Company decide to attack, we’ll defeat them on the field,” you chimed in. “Cersei is our only enemy and once the people see that, it’s all over for her.”

 It was silent for a moment as Dany mulled over the options. You knew that she wanted to go all out and randomly attack the Capital, but she knew that doing that would cause more harm than good.

 “Alright,” she said.

 “Many of the men we have are exhausted and wounded,” Sansa said. “They’ll fight better if they have the time to rest and heal.”

 “How long do you suggest?” Daenerys asked her.

 “I can’t say for certain. Not without talking to the officers.”

 “I have come to help you and your people at great cost to mine and me. Now is the time to pay back and you want to postpone.” Daenerys posed it like a question but by the severity of her tone it was a statement.

 “It’s not just our people. It’s yours too,” you said, trying to diffuse the tension. “They’re not ready to fight again so soon. All of them.”

 “The longer I leave my enemies alone, the stronger they become.”

 You sighed internally at the two hot-headed girls and rubbed your stomach absentmindedly, ignoring the conversation in front of you. You didn’t even really know why you were at the meeting in the first place. It wasn’t like you were going to fight and you technically weren’t a Stark anymore. You grimaced at that thought and started to lean on the table. In a flash, Varys was beside you.

 “Are you alright, milady?” He said quietly.

 “Yes, thank you. The baby was just kicking.”

 “Do you need a chair, Lady Stark?” Daenerys asked you. You looked up and saw everyone’s eyes were on you.

 “Yes. That would be helpful.” Daenerys gestured to Greyworm and he dutifully fetched a chair for you.

 “Thank you,” you said to him. He nodded in response and retook his place by the Queen. The conversation continued and you tried to pay attention.

 “Jon and Ser Davos will ride down the Kingsroad with the Northern troops along with the bulk of the remaining Dothraki and Unsullied. A smaller group of us will ride to White Harbor and sail from there to Dragonstone, with our Queen and her dragons accompanying us from above.” Tyrion paused for a second. “Ser Jaime has decided to stay here, as a guest of the Lady of Winterfell.”

 “We have won the Great War,” Daenerys said. “Now we will win the Last War.”

 She looked around the room and when no one said anything, walked out the door. Everyone else followed until it was only the Starks left. Jon started to leave as well, but Arya cut him off at the door.

 “We need a word.”

 ---

 “You understand they we’d all be dead if it she wasn’t here,” Jon said. “We’d be corpses marching down to King’s Landing.”

 “Arya’s the one who killed the Night King!” Sansa said.

 “Her men gave their lives for Winterfell—“

 “And we will never forget them,” you said. “That doesn’t mean that I want to bend the knee to someone who can’t even respect me.”

 “I swore myself and the North to her cause.”

 “I respect that,” Arya voiced.

 “You respect it?”

 “We needed her. Her army and her dragons. You did the right thing. And we’re doing the right thing telling you that we don’t trust your Queen.”

 “You don’t know her.”

 “I do. And I still don’t trust her,” you said.

 “We don’t know her. We never will. She’s not one of us,” Arya said.

 “If you only trust the people you grew up around then you won’t make allies!”

 “That’s alright. I don’t need many allies.”

 “Arya—“

 “We’re family. The five of us. The last of the Starks.”

 “I’ve never been a Stark,” Jon said after a moment.

 “You are. You’re just as much Ned Stark’s child as any of us,” Sansa said.

 “You’re my brother. Not a half-brother or bastard brother.” Arya stepped forward.

 “You’re our brother,” you said softly, putting your hand on his arm. Jon looked at the four of you and placed his hand on yours. He looked at Bran with a torn look on his face. You could see that he was fighting something inside of him and you got slightly confused. It only escalated when Bran spoke.

 “It’s your choice,” Bran said. You and your sisters looked at Bran then back to Jon. Jon was nodding and it seemed as though he had come to a decision.

 “I need to tell you something,” Jon said. “But you have to swear that you’ll never tell another soul.”

 “What is it?” Arya asked.

 “You have to swear before I tell you.”

 “How can I promise to keep a secret before I even know what it is?” Sansa said.

 “Because we’re family. Swear it. Please.”

 “I swear it,” you said. The two youngest swore as well.

 “Tell them,” Jon said to Bran. The three of you turned to Bran and he just looked at you for a moment.

 “Jon isn’t Jon Snow. He is Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. He was born in Dorne where our father, his uncle, took him before he could be killed by the late King Robert.”

 Your eyes were wide and you looked up to Jon.

 “So this means that you have a claim to the Iron Throne,” you whispered.

 “Yes, but I do not want it.”

 “I know that. Have you told Daenerys?” The way Jon flinched told you what you needed to know.

 “How did she take it?” Sansa asked.

 “She was definitely not thrilled. She thinks that I want the throne, and no matter what I say it won’t leave her mind.”

 “Fuck,” you muttered.

 “And I take it she is the reason why we can’t breathe a word of this?” Arya said.

 “I wasn’t even supposed to tell the four of you. Especially not you.”

 “Because if we know then the knowledge is in powerful hands,” Sansa mused.

 “Yes.”

 “So what are we going to do?” You asked.

 “We are going to do as our Queen says and you are not allowed to breathe a word of this to anyone.”

 ---

 It had been a few days since you and your siblings had that talk in the Godswood. You mostly kept to yourself and if you were around someone, it was Sansa or the Maester. The Maester had told you that in a few days he was going to put you on bedrest for the rest of your pregnancy. You weren’t looking forward to that so you tried to do whatever you could before that happened.

 You had also moved rooms to be closer to Sansa and to get out of the place you once shared with Sandor. All of your things had been moved by someone else and you were reading by the fire when there was a knock on your door.

 “Come in,” you called, looking up from your book.

 The door opened and Arya walked in.

 “Arya! To what do I owe the pleasure?”

 “I just wanted to see you before I left,” she said.

 “You’re leaving?” Your eyes widened. “You’re not going to fight, are you?”

 “I’m going to be the one to kill Cersei.”

 “Arya, love, don’t be too hasty. Bad things come to those who go looking for death. And I have a bad feeling about this battle. I do not think that Daenerys is going to keep her promise and spare the people of King’s Landing.” You struggled out of your chair and Arya was by your side quickly.

 “Don’t push yourself, [y/n],” Arya said. “If you worry too much it will put stress on the baby.”

 “How can I not worry when my sister is going off to a slaughter?” There were tears in your eyes and Arya brushed them away.

 “How about this. If it gets too much and things start going too much out of hand, I will turn around and come straight back home. Okay?”

 “Okay,” you sniffled. “I’ve already lost Sandor again. I can’t bear to lose you too.”

 Arya’s eyes hardened just the slightest bit but you didn’t notice. She gathered you into a hug and rubbed your back gently.

 “You won’t lose me.” You sniffed again and squeezed Arya as tightly as you possibly could.

 “You swear it?”

 “I swear it.”

[tomakeitbeautifultolive]

2 questions (or so😬); 1) do you have headcanons of how will Jon and Danys love or romance story develop(if there is one)? Slow, over time? Or on the first sight, head over heels? One-sided, and later two-sider? Will both of them don't know(R+L=J) ? Or only Jon? How do you picture the angst between them? 2)when did Ben joined the NW and why? It's not like the NW went from a place or glory to a shit hole in a span of 15 years?! Like it's never mentioned what Ben did during the rebellion? Thx you

Wow! Thank you for all the asks! Sorry it took me so long to get to your beautiful questions. Oh you know I've got some Jon x Dany headcanons! *rubs hands together*

I believe it will be a slow burn that will resemble season seven in many ways (there's a reason season seven, for all its flaws, was still very highly rated as opposed to season eight - because while things like dialogue or timing suffered, the plot still felt like it was going in the right direction).

My prediction about Jon has always been that he'll be the *one* man who isn't impressed with Dany's beauty. Oh, he'll notice it all right, but he won't mention it or use it as a means to gain her favor with compliments. He's going to treat her as an equal right off the bat, and not as an object or a prize that he can win or woo. This is going to perplex Daenerys and probably intrigue her. They'll earn each other's respect based on merit, and I definitely predict some sort of innate bond between them because they're basically fated to meet.

Now, there's some speculation that because Jon died and is (most likely) coming back to life, we may never get another POV from him again. If that is the case (knock on wood) it will definitely appear very one-sided. I also have a headcanon that Jon absolutely resembles his true father in all but coloring, and that he's a total knockout - and we won't find that out until Daenerys sees him and we finally hear a proper description of his looks. (I also have a headcanon that Jon has his father's eyes - that everyone assumes they're grey but actually they're a dark indigo...) And in my dreams, Barristan Selmy is standing beside Daenerys on Dragonstone when Jon marches in and Ser Barristan sees something in Jon that strikes him as familiar... I would love it if, upon seeing Jon, it suddenly clicks for Barriston.

Angst between them, hmm. (f)Aegon is a bit of a curveball here. Either he's going to carry out his plan to try and wed his aunt and it could cause angst and make Jon realize he feels something more for Dany, or this will happen long before Jon is around - possibly as a ploy. Part of me suspects that if he took Tyrion's advice to heart about having a stronger claim than Dany, he might try to get rid of her or destroy her reputation somehow when she arrives to Westeros - and Jon might go to her once she's totally compromised and offer an alliance then.

I am more of a mystery theorist rather than someone who feels comfortable guessing at battle plans or strategies, I admit...

I do think that Jon's parentage will come out by some means or another, and that Daenerys will find out. I don't see this being a point of contention between them whatsoever, nor will the incest be a problem for Jon. In fact, I kind of see the pair of them teaming up to slay the mummer's dragon together. While the show really went hard with Targaryens being mad and evil, that is hardly the case for ASOIAF. This negative image of Targaryens comes mostly from, you betcha, the Lannisters (and Robert Baratheon). It was more or less a propaganda campaign that succeeded not only across Westeros, but apparently across the reader base who cannot read between the lines.

If it's true that Coldhands is not Benjen, then it could be Benjen or Howland who spill the beans, or perhaps confirm Ser Barristan's suspicion? (Assuming he doesn't die - but I really feel in my heart that he won't). I think Jon will have an identity crisis - not so much about being a Targaryen (I think he'll be proud of that honestly) but about not being Ned Stark's son as he was led to believe. I'd love for him, and the readers, to finally learn that his true father was a great man.

Now, speaking of Benjen... I believe he had a very heavy hand in what happened between Lyanna and Rhaegar. I believe he helped equip Lyanna with the mismatched armor needed for the tourney - and that he helped them, in some way, correspond in order to plan their elopement/abscondence.

During the rebellion, Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell - which I can only imagine how that empty castle haunted him during that period. Following news of his sister's death, I'd be willing to bet Benjen was utterly overcome with guilt. And for as close as Ned and Lyanna were, I believe Benjen was even closer to her. His joining the Night's Watch reads almost like a self-inflicted punishment/imprisonment, or... maybe... it wasn't that at all. His decision to join the ranks of a military order full of Targaryen supporters beyond the reach of Robert Baratheon might be a strategic one.

Benjen isn't stupid. He has to know who Jon is, right? I suspect he was even in on the prophecy that Rhaegar was into about TPTWP. So, Ned is keeping Jon safe, but Benjen might just be securing his future (or was, until his disappearance threw the plan into jeopardy).

Now... I have another little theory everyone is going to hate. But bear with me.

The Mormonts. They're a relatively small house sworn to Stark, in the middle of fucking nowhere. And by that I mean they're on small Bear Island surrounded by water - it's real out of the way from just about any and everything. They are described as poor.

So, how the hell does this small, obscure house manage to be one of the few with a Valyrian sword? Was it really written that way just so that Jon could inherit it? That seems a bit too convenient for GRRM's standards, doesn't it?

Presumably, sometime before Robert's Rebellion (though no one knows for sure), Jeor Mormont joined the Night's Watch and quickly moved through the ranks, securing Lord Commander status. Benjen Stark becomes First Ranger. Two of the most powerful positions. And Bear Island went to Jeor's son, Jorah Mormont, along with Longclaw.

What happens with Jorah, exactly? He's caught selling poachers to slavers. Poachers. On Bear Island...?

For this disgrace, Jorah Mormont fled to the Free Cities. In the books, it says during this time Jorah fights the Braavosi, but in the show, he admits to having been part of the Golden Company (this might be important considering GRRM was pretty involved in season one and writing it).

I know the story goes that the sword has been with the family for five-hundred years. But a theme in these books is that history doesn't quite add up, and I can't help but notice that while the Starks' sword Ice dates back four-hundred years, around the time of the Doom of Valyria/when the Targaryens landed in Westeros, the Mormont sword allegedly goes back a hundred years further? Curious.

The original pommel, according to Jeor, was worn and indistinguishable - which seems strange for a Valyrian steel sword. Either way, this is a hint that pommels can be swapped out.

Much like Jon, Longclaw might also have a secret Targaryen identity: Blackfyre.

I'd love to see Jon and Dany square off against (f)Aegon - Dany with her dragons and Jon wielding Blackfyre. It's absurd headcanon for me that Jon obtaining and wielding this sword will inspire the Golden Company in some way and get them to change allegiance. How? I think we're missing plenty of details but if anyone knows the fate of Blackfyre better than we do, it's the Golden Company, and if Jorah did work for them or fight against them, then his presence alongside Jon/Dany might prove the swords are one and the same.

How perfect would it be for Jon to wield the very same sword as his idol, the Young Dragon? *dreamy sigh*

Anyway. If you're following me this far, it's also curious that Jorah goes on to find and protect Daenerys, eh? Meanwhile, when Jon expresses interest in joining the Night's Watch, Benjen says this:

"Until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up."

"I don't care about that!" Jon said hotly.

"You might, if you knew what it meant," Benjen said. "If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son."

It's just all very curious to me. And maybe we'll never get answers where Benjen is concerned, just like we'll never know exactly what Rhaegar's plan was, either. But imagining these grand schemes going on in the background make the story so much more interesting to me because I'm a dreamer, what can I say?

Thanks for the asks, they were a great way to get my mind off of paranoia for a while lol ♥

[omgellendean]

Cat x Brandon, Ned x Ashara, Sansa x LF and the Theon ship of your preference :3

Thank you, lovely!

Guess we need “read more” once again))

Cat/Brandon

I'm a bit meh about them, mostly because we know so little about Brandon. Like, he was taller than Ned (well, who wasn't), he was hotheaded, and overall he seemed to be a northern version of Robert? Which is not particularly impressive, if you ask me. I mean, Brandon died young, so maybe he would've turned out to be a better person, but eh.

Sometimes I see people put great importance into the fact that Cat was in love with him before Ned. But I don't read that as the great love story. Cat was young and dutiful, and it seems to me, she was a bit like Sansa in this aspect, as in she loved Brandon because brides are supposed to love their future husbands. Most of Cat's mentions of him are about doing her duty in the first place. And anyway, Brandon was handsome and confident, they knew each other and were betrothed for years — it would be strange if they didn't fall in love. And definitely, this first young love doesn't negate or diminish Cat's love for Ned. It just shows that she was a normal teenager who had a safe and happy life by Westerosi standards, until Rhaegar and his dad fucked everyone over.

Ned/Ashara

Oh my god, why is that even a thing? I mean, sure, to each their own, no judging, but why? She has even less personality than Brandon and Lyanna, and that's literally her most striking character trait. Shipping Ned with idk Jory would've been more interesting — at least they interacted in the book, and Jory isn't a cardboard Elizabeth Taylor's figure sticking out of the text.

Ok, fine, apparently I have strong opinions on that matter. As you all can see, I'm not a big fan of ships, in which one character consist only of the name. I don't find it interesting and honestly don't see much sense in it, if we aren't talking about PWP. Also, this particular pairing often has a weird undertone of anti-Cat sentiment. Like when this supposed romance is framed as Ned's only real love in the canon, with Catelyn being a poor substitute or something. And this is plain wrong. Canon Ned Stark loved one (1) woman, and her name was Catelyn.

Sansa/LF

This is really brutal, lol. 

Weirdly enough, while LF is a great character, I have the same problem with this ship as I have with Ned/Ashara: it's too often tied in with presenting wishful thinking and fanons as canon.

Are Sansa's relationship with LF complex and engaging for the reader? Of course. Is he her mentor figure? Obviously. Is there any ground for shipping? Everything can be the ground for shipping, and I'm not shippers' mum to judge them. Is Sansa as evil as LF and complicit in his crimes? NO. 

They can be Bonnie and Clyde in as many transformative works as you want, but in the books and the show, Sansa is LF's victim. He destroyed her life, she doesn't trust him, doesn't want his kisses, and isn't really privy to his plans. LF uses her and doesn't consider her as his equal. And I'm going to rejoice when in the books Sansa will make him pay for everything as she did in the show. And maybe that will put at rest some extremely annoying "theories" in Sansa's tag.

Theon/anyone of my choice (because Theon can get anyone he wants)

Going to take Sansa/Theon because I already got Theon/Robb in another ask. So, basically, my feelings about them can be described with this gif:

And I will forever laugh about the fact that this pairing is 90% based on actors' chemistry, and it never was intentional. Their power!

I also wish more people appreciated Theon/Cat, because Theon definitely had hots for her, and that was the main source of Robb’s teenage angst.