#discourse norms

[liskantope]

Really appreciate your ability to *actually* say “I’m not informed enough to have an opinion”, something I think most of us hypothetically endorse doing way more often than we actually do. You also take on new information more gracefully than average in my opinion. A good role model for opinion-havers.

Thanks, that means a lot! I would definitely like our discursive culture to move in that direction, so I'm glad if I'm modeling that.

[knifearo]

"asexual discourse" is so funny cause dude that's not discourse and it's never been discourse. it's not an argument and it's not a conversation bitches are just yelling at us unprompted and then making up people to get mad at 😭

[transmaverique]

amab and afab, if they were used as shorthand for the actual full phrases that they signify, with emphasis on the "assigned" part, and an understanding that they are enforcements of normative (ie, dyadic and cisgender and binary) sex, would be like. really useful. but people took the terms and started using them as shorthand FOR normative sex instead of the ENFORCEMENT OF normative sex. so when other trans people (almost always dyadic trans people) ask for your agab they are almost always asking for your Original Genital Situation. your starting point, so to say. and the reason FOR asking is also almost always bc they are trying to also enforce a certain kind of normativity within queer spaces (which is stupid bc being queer is inherently non-normative but here we are). like, you cant be a lesbian if you're ftm, bc you ARE m, so if you ARE a lesbian, then that means you're lying about some aspect of your identity. does that make sense?

it is always always always incredibly.... i do not trust dyadic trans people that use cagab terms, even moreso than i do not trust dyadic trans people that just use agab terms. agab is also coopted intersex language, but the "coercive" part of cagab SPECIFICALLY refers to medical "intervention" of intersex characteristics, such as "corrective" surgeries and hrt. i am deeply fucking suspicious of any dyadic trans person that uses those terms exactly the same as described above, even moreso if they do so bc "all gender is coercive".

like. yeah. that's true. but you use these terms to erase and overtake intersex discussions on the medical abuse of intersex infants. and i cant help but wonder why you would feel the need to do that.

[epiphainie]

i'll try to say this in the kindest way possible but what if we don't post bucktommy critical or bucktommy negative posts that people originally censored/kept out of the bucktommy tag by screenshotting them and putting them in the tag? people are allowed to hate a ship. idk what to tell you but they're allowed to have their opinions even if their reasoning seems stupid to you or it very obviously comes with bad faith arguments. as long as they're being decent enough to not cross the line and do keep it in their own tags/blogs, you don't have to be fighting them in our tags. if you so want to, sure do it on your blog, in your dms, in your discord servers. but i'm tired of seeing the blogs i know i have blocked for their silly takes because we keep circulating what they're posting in our own tags. seeing a collage of the stupid, negative, downright homophobic comments curated from all sorts platforms in the bucktommy tag, in fact, feels no different in practice than seeing the antis post in the bucktommy tag, especially when you don't add the useful tags like "discourse" or "fandom criticism" to your posts.

just my own two cents, hell maybe it just bothers me idk, then keep doing it i guess.

[t4tpumpkinduo]

tbh i do think the way you interact w fanbase can be and often is political. i do think you should unpack why you think certain things. i do think you should confront why you either ignore or objectify or treat poc like abusers. i do think you should look into why you can't bother to care about women characters. like i do think that matters lmao lol lmao. it's not raining on anyone's parade to rightfully point that out.

[the-crimson]

I was gonna make a comment on someone else’s post but I’ll just make a new one cuz I don’t wanna derail theirs XD

(This is aimed at the fandom, the characters being confused about 4halo is perfectly fine lol)

In regards to 4halo, I think the fandom needs to keep in mind that cc!bbh has said q!bbh is aromantic. That means that you will never be able to put any of his relationships into neat little boxes of platonic or romantic.

I’m aromantic and I’ve had people tell me my relationship with one of my closet friends has to be a romantic one because of how close we are/how we act with each other when it’s not in the way they are imagining. We aros often joke that we’ve unlocked a “secret third thing” but a lot of times relationships aren’t as cut and dry as you’d like to believe even between allosexuals - especially within the queer community.

A romantic relationship is not defined by what people do with each other or how they act around each other but by their attraction to each other. Q!bbh has made it pretty clear he has no romantic or sexual attraction to anyone so trying to put his relationships in those boxes is going to leave you disappointed.

As an aromantic person, it’s difficult to classify my relationships into these simplistic categories so I usually just avoid the question or change the subject. Q!bbh does the same.

Part of it is that cc!bbh is a troll and is obligated to always chose the dialogue option to create maximum drama but the other part is q!bbh probably doesn’t know how to explain the nature of his relationship with Forever in terms of romantic or platonic because it doesn’t fall into either.

It’s just like his relationship with Skeppy. They are immortal soulmates who are extremely possessive and codependent but good fucking luck trying to put their relationship in a box.

I think trying to look at 4halo through a purely romantic or platonic lens is doing yourself and the characters a massive disservice. You cannot forget or ignore that fact that q!bbh is canonically aromantic when analyzing this ship. Yeah go on a write ur romance or smut or what ever but when looking at the cannon, do not forget it or you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

[harumeowz]

Professional mental health experts have agreed with proshippers that exploring trauma in a safe enviornment is a good way to actually cope and deal with said trauma. There is a lot of research and studies from mental health and sex educators that prove fantasies even taboo ones are normal and healthy. This won't be for everyone, ofc, as each individual is different. So, no, there is nothing wrong with proshippers when much research shows fictional taboo interests isn't inherently immoral or dangerous.

And you think the internet is a safe environment? 🤨

While I agree that coping with trauma through fiction can definitely be healthy and a good way to cope, as it's something I do as well albeit within a completely different context, I rarely see said writers actually looking at their ships in a critical manner or portraying said relationships as being something undesireable to happen in a real context, especially if you involve KIDS in said context.

Tolerating proship helps normalize and romantice such a relationship dynamic, a dynamic that cannot work in anything but fiction, yet there are a lot of impressionable people (both with malicious intent and no malicious intent of a wide age variety) who will take this at face value without any other imput on the topic other than proships.

[apollos-boyfriend]

my least favorite internet trend as of late has been people going “i’m sooo tired of [x trope] i’m so glad [y piece of media] wasn’t afraid and broke free of it 🤭” and not only is it a trope that’s WILDLY not common in the slightest it’s also glaringly obvious they are talking about a Single Specific Piece of media and acting like it’s the cultural norm when that couldn’t be further from the truth

[samglyph]

I think the people who were like “damn shuros just an asshole” were missing the point but I think the new people saying that “Shuro isn’t an asshole and it’s all about cultural divides and Laios is just as bad” also might be missing the point.

[bandtrees]

thats one way to avoid getting shot??? 💜💛

[liskantope]

A bemusing hypothetical/fantasy future situation popped into my head the other day. Suppose that sometime in the 2040's or so, certain types of neurodivergence finally become a fully recognized marginalized trait front and center in activism, and there's a whole "reckoning" on a widespread level with the deeply-ingrained allistic nature of our culture, analogous to how some of the most radical/extreme people today want everyone to examine and reject fundamental "colonialist" values ingrained in our culture (e.g. precision, punctuality, belief in objective truth, etc.). Now the social movement to replace "allistic values" with something more "autistic" wouldn't necessarily be accurate in terms of reflecting how autistic people tend to think; after all, the main drivers of the movement probably wouldn't even have that many autistic people in their ranks! But I could imagine one "autistic value" might be a high level of scrutiny of one's own words and claims as to whether they reflecting concrete and fairly literal truth, rather than the tendency of many people in serious discourse to speak more poetically with the priority of pushing a narrative over saying what they literally mean.

The above imagining and my description of it doesn't necessarily have a thesis attached; I'm not particularly trying to argue anything about neurodivergence or colonialism or activism in this post. But I am going to come right out and say that a shift in norms in the direction of "say what you really literally mean on serious social issues rather than speaking in a flourishy or bombastic way just to show how strong a stance you're taking" would be very, very welcome by me.

[leulah]

[therealaradiamedigo]

Hey chat unfriendly reminder that headcanoning every feminine male character as trans is pretty reductionist actually and only serves to reinforce gender norms

[natsmagi]

so close! its meant to be a squishy tsumugi drawing❤️

cant believe we're about to enter an era where you guys call THIS

chubby yet proceed to trash on artists who add a little bit of softness to him, as canon claims he has, because its "not enough"

everyones free to draw him with more fat if they want! i think that would be super lovely! but as i have said 5 billion times this is the body type i envision for tsumugi, and canon sees it similarly, so im happy! its nice when canon agrees with a headcanon you have! soft tummy! thats what we got confirmation of!

[modgod200]

This might be a controversial post, but fuck it.

I think the only people who are qualified to talk about the other gender’s experience are trans people. Unless you have lived as that gender, your opinion of their experience is based solely on other people’s accounts and/or your own biased observations of what their experience must be like. I have never been a woman. I do not know what it is like to exist as a woman nor do I know what it is like to be treated as a woman, and if I tried to picture life as a women based on what I have seen or heard it is not going to be an accurate representation of being a woman. The same way that if you have lived your entire life as a woman you do not understand what it is truly like to live as a man. You look like a dumbass if you talk about how the other group will “ never understand what it’s like” to be your gender and then act like you have perfect encyclopedic knowledge on the other’s lived experiences.

Trans people are the only people who truly understand how the world treats both men and women, and I find their accounts and insights about their experiences to be absolutely fascinating. Hearing trans men’s accounts about being a man has opened my eyes to some of my own experiences that I have never really examined because I thought it was a universal fact of life instead of a gender-specific experience. And hearing trans women’s experiences on being a woman has helped me understand a little bit better how a woman’s experiences differ from my own because they actually have a man’s frame of reference that they can compare it to and explain it with.

[vitrines]

btw when you guys only hype up female content creators when they do something you find attractive that's not activism. "oooo step on me" you do not respect women or that woman. you are not treating her as a person. because it's dead fucking silence when she's just living her life.