#homestuck denizens

[techtakesoff]

Do you have any thoughts on denizens, e.g. how they are assigned to players? :o

I think about denizens uhhhh a completely normal amount I promise. do not look in my notes folder it's fine (/j)

But seriously, I find them really interesting. We see so little of them, but they're deeply important to Homestuck's story and the function of Sburb. Canon gives us a few hints about how they're assigned to players, but there aren't really any hard rules.

The piece of denizen lore that is stated most explicitly in the text is that Yaldabaoth is the deadliest denizen, appears very rarely, and is "usually designated for the most naturally gifted warriors." There is a ton of room for interpretation for who exactly Sburb considers its most naturally talented warriors -- we know it counts Dirk and Caliborn but not Vriska, and presumably none of the other trolls whose denizens were never revealed.

My personal reading is that Yaldabaoth is given to the players with the most set-in-stone morals (not necessarily good ones!) and high ambitions, and being a good warrior is just something that happens to be correlated with those traits; if you have a character who is a hardcore pacifist but rises immediately to any challenge and never backs down, they might end up with Yaldabaoth.

The second most direct piece of denizen lore is that Echidna is assigned to all Space players. Echidna is one of the more benevolent denizens, and appears to have a lot of stake in the players' victory.

She offers Choices that can get them out of dire circumstances, but the terms she asks for can seem impossible to fulfill. According to Jade, Echidna's Choices are usually about facing mortality, and her most powerful abilities may require the player(s) to directly sacrifice themselves (as was the case with Alt-Calliope and the Beforan trolls) in order to enact drastic change.

Players can just kill her, though, if they are unwilling or unable to make a successful bargain, and doing so doesn't seem to have any major consequences. Beyond that, everything we know about denizens is inferred or speculated.

Karkat claims that his denizen might've been the opposite of Yaldabaoth, one reserved for the weakest fighters. Fanon holds that this denizen was Abraxas, but this is unconfirmed (personally, I don't subscribe to that theory, but if it works for your story then go for it.)

We also see that Cetus is associated with Light players, but that leads me into my Hottest Take, which is that denizens probably aren't associated with aspects at all (possibly besides Echidna.) Denizens are much more closely tied to a player's *element* than their aspect.

Cetus, again, has only been seen with Light players, but the legendary monster it's named after has nothing to do with light -- it's a *sea monster.* Rose's associated element is water, and Scorpio is a water sign.

Likewise, Jade's associated element is earth, and Virgo is an earth sign, but Echidna's association to Space appears to override her association with earth when it comes to Calliope (the constellation the cherubim are based on, Ophiuchus, mostly overlaps with Sagittarius, which is a fire sign.)

Hephaestus is a fire god, and Dave and the Aries sign are both associated with fire. The alpha kids' elemental associations are not as clear-cut, but Jane's denizen Hemera has more to do with the sky and air than with Life.

Sometimes aspect ties in with element, as in the case of Egbert's Breath and air, but not always! The Nitrams are Breath players, but earth signs. If your character has a thematic association with something separate from their aspect -- one of the classical elements, a later element from alchemy or chemistry, or really any particular material or even color -- look there for denizen inspiration.

Design-wise, all the canon denizens have serpentine bodies with humanlike heads (or at least faces) and most of them are named after deities or creatures with a similar body shape.

You can always pick something with no existing snake associations and just draw it as a snake, of course, but Wikipedia has a whole category page for "Legendary serpents" from Apophis to Jörmungandr to Zhulong if you want to stay on theme.

The canon denizens have names drawn from Ancient Greek and Gnostic sources, but there's no reason I see to limit yourself in that regard. Denizens are an extremely powerful tool from a storytelling perspective.

They're very strong, very mysterious, and can serve as a convenient deus ex machina if needed (this is a good thing! Having a way to advance the plot swiftly and dramatically like this is *awesome.*)

Canonically, they have knowledge of all their alternate timeline iterations, which could allow a doomed future self to interact with the alpha timeline using the denizen as a proxy.

Denizens' power over the Incipisphere is, as far as we know, boundless and unparalleled. There is *so much* potential with denizens and I desperately want to see more of them in fanworks.

Consider what could happen if a denizen was prototyped into a sprite, or if a player had the ability to steal their denizen's power and use it for themself, or if two denizens had cause to fight each other directly... again, I think about this a completely normal amount. (/reverse hyperbole for humorous intent)

[sandwizard9]

Here's my interpretation of how Denizens are assigned to players in sburb.

It's pretty long!

I think it's assigned not necessarily according to class or aspect but often on the capability of the player. It was shown that Dirk was assigned the most powerful of denizens, Yaldabaoth, as he was himself skilled. So is the case of Caliborn. Abraxas can be assigned to those who are less skilled or non violent. Or as is the fanon interpretation. Which means if you think you're capable for a particular denizen you may determine that that is indeed your denizen. You can even have Abraxas if your self confidence is that poor.

One more thing, Each denizen has a quirk, which can collerate with an aspect or a class.

Typheus is pretty tricky, which could be assigned to Mind players as they use their aspect to answer him or fight him.

Similarly, Hephaestus has fire as a theme, the Doom aspect too has this. Maybe it can have a tendency to be assigned to heroes of Doom like Sollux. His land's theme was fire, maybe the denizen set it on fire? It could make for an interesting quest, for him to learn about Doom. Hephaestus is also the lord of the forge, whig means he can be assigned to Time players too, thought not necessarily.

Cetus has an asshole tendency. It'd be funny if she was assigned to Thief players, who we've seen mostly tend to be asshats too.

Echidna is assigned to Space players as we have seen, with Jade, Kanaya, and Calliope. Unlike Time players, it is pretty important that the denizen of a Space player HAS to be Echidna because shei is most helpful as the mother of all denizens, and gives information on the scratch and stoking the forge. I don't think she was Aranea's denizen, and even if she was. Perhaps she is assigned to other players if the session is doomed, or destined to be scratched with the players.

[Also, my headcanon is that players with the same denizen tend to either clash or get along. (John and Terezi, Dave and Sollux, Rose and Vriska, or as for the latter - Jade and Kanaya etc.)]

Hemera and Nix so far are, I think, similar to Jane and Rozy respectively. If Echidna is the mother of all the denizens then I think Hemera and Nix are most sisterly like, like twins because of their designs. Although we didn't even see her, I think Hemera would have the personality of a stereotypical Prospit dreamer, and for Nix that of a Derse dreamer. Jane sounds like a Derse dreamer while Roxy a Prospit dreamer personality wise, a cool detail to notice. Maybe Feferi and Nepeta respectively could have Hemera and Nix?

I think we probably know well of Yaldabaoth. Powerful and difficult. Could Gamzee have him as a denizen? I don't think so and think so at the same time. Maybe.

Abraxas is theorized to be assigned to weak players and as karkat puts it, HE had a very easy denizen. Maybe it could be Abraxas. He would be a friendly guy and even underestimate the weakest player.

There are eight existing denizens, and you can make up four more on your own to find out what the rest of the trolls' denizens (For Tavros, Eridan, Equius and Aradia) might be.

You can also share your thoughts on who the dancestor's denizens were! :D

[house-bound]

I'm drawing the denizens and trying to choose what would be the ones for the classpects we don't know and I've decided to make Medusa the Heart Denizen.

She has many snakes while Heart players have many splinters, she was decapitated like Dirk and she gave birth to Pegasus, the same species as Dirk's favorite MLP character. And noticeably her story changes a lot depending on the version like how a Heart player varies a lot from person to person and role in the story.

Medusa is also Cetus's daughter in some versions so she has a connection with at least one other denizen, they even both appear on Perseus's story.

I've been having a lot of Denizen thoughts lately

[saltzerland]

🐍|Snake Fruit Cookie x Yaldaboath|🔆

[CROBxHS]

goobers

[btw they are tinted red, the lighting just kinda negates it]

[notwhatyoucameherefor]

Rb for higher sample size because I still have like 2 active followers

[knights-unwelcommentary]

One thing visual elements in homestuck do really well is letting the audience know how terribly small the kids are in front of the magnitude of the events they find themselves entangled with

[incorrect-hs-quotes]

CG: I CAN AND WILL INVADE EARTH WITH FOUR DIFFERENT ALIEN SPECIES BACK TO BACK IF YOU DON’T SHUT YOUR PEANUT LOOKING ASS UP.

[davekat-sucks]

The way the Capericans and Consorts are treated as if they are not “real” people because they are game constructs is gross. Because the players are also Game Constructs.

As the interludes clearly show them as sapient beings capable of sorrow, philosophy, hate, love, and joy.

But no they don’t count Jade was lonely despite having her ghost mom and the population of five mini planets to interact with.

It’s a theme of the space bound are isolated so Jade was on her trip despite clearly being surrounded by people

And for Kanaya's case, it's her isolating herself that isn't Rose. Which is why she never bothers to help Terezi about Gamzee or speak with Karkat. Sure she was told not kill the clown, but that doesn't mean she can try and stop Terezi from harming herself by being near him. She doesn't have to be the mediator of the auspiticism either. She can just pull him away and say Fuck You to Gamzee, but she doesn't do this. So not even the ones on the meteor even want to be around that isn't in the love department. Don't forget that Karkat and Dave treat Wayward Vagabond as a pet, despite the fact he was a leader and soldier that fought in the war and had to lose TWO of his best friends. One was killed by Jack and the other transformed into a monster just to fight him. He's left all alone and from that point after his revival in Act 6 and Post Retcon, we never hear his thoughts despite we had been able too in older Acts. If Karkat and Dave are aware about him being a soldier and leader of the Carapacian, wouldn't it be logical reason to console with him to how to plan on things for the Alpha session? Sure it's unknown if Carapacians can even communicate since we don't see them "speak", but there should be a way for Wayward Vagabond and the others on meteor to 'talk' with him. But no. Dave and Karkat don't see him as an individual. They just see him as pet to keep safe from harm. And the worst part of it is all, despite building Cantown and supporting his dreams of democracy back on the meteor in both Act 6 and Post Retcon, in the end, Earth C was divided in KINGDOMS. Pissing on Wayward Vagabond's grave.

[groggygrimalkin]

Draconian Dignantary meeting with my Denizen oc Lyssa. I think it's funny that agents of derse have to get the denizens to do their whole planet thing. Some definitely seem easier to deal with than others like a certain Goddess of Rabies. She could give him a seizure inducing case of rabies if she wanted to but she's equal parts offended and entertained by the stone faced man's funny way of talking so she supposes she wont

[cheshiresartblog]

So like...these are some of my version of Denizen for a project between me and @astralanarchist

[modernchemical]

drawing all of these made the outside of my hand permenantly 6B lead grey now im a finally a real homestuck (sorry about the scanning quality)

[botanicalcanopus]

so like what denizens do you think the beta trolls have [no dupes with the humans except for echidna, and i'm reasonably sure gamzee had yaldabaoth on account of his connection to english]

I mainly stayed in the Greek/Roman side due to how much more I know about them and the trends of that pantheon being more often used. My takes for zero(ish) repeats:

Aradia: Atropos => The deity who cuts the thread of life and works with her sisters to help determine the natural lifespan of a mortal. Chosen because of Aradia's short life as well as her ability to commune with the dead.

Tavros: Aeolus => A ruler of winds that aided both gods and mortals. Chosen for Tavros as he seemingly is weak and has some very easy to blow through nervousness that becomes steadfast and eager like strong winds that Aeolus controlled.

Sollux: Thanatos => The god and one personification of death. Also a twin to Hypnos.

Karkat: Styx => Goddess of the River Styx, oaths, and another death deity. She specifically was used a form of swearing on something as she was vengeful and any oaths promised/swore under her name were guaranteed to be upheld or there would be extreme consequences.

Nepeta: Anteros => God of requited love. Should be pretty obvious due to her love of shipping but also related to her unrequited love she sadly deals with. Hopefully Anteros can give her some peace over that.

Kanaya: Echidna (as stated in the ask)

Terezi: Mnemosyne => Goddess of wisdom but specifically memories. I put her with Terezi due to how Terezi's looking to the past is part of her personality. I mean this in the sense of both ability to help retcon things as well as her trials she would hold relief on witnesses testifying what they remember

Vriska: Cetus (in the actual story)/Eos (my choice) => Goddess of the dawn who delivers light. Also known to have many desires that she acts upon without others consideration and is known to be a bit selfish. I think a brat dealing with a brat would be fun as a denizen challenge for Vriska.

Equius: Harpocrates => Greek rendition of Horus that is deity over secrets and silence. Pretty obvious void connection but also pulls on Equius's land which was the Land of Caves and Silence

Gamzee: Yaldabaoth (as stated in the ask), but I'd also agree with it

Eridan: Zelus => God of eagerness, jealousy, and the root of the word zeal. He is also one of the few gods assigned to be under Zeus and sees that his command is done. I think jealous and zealous can sum up the positive and negative traits of Eridan.

Feferi: Hera => The Goddess of marriage, women, family, and main wife of Zeus. This is more a reference to the Peixes lineage, as it is matriarchal, the leader of the troll race, long-lived, and all about royalty. I think Hera and Fef would butt heads and the presented Choice would be interesting.

[sketchwizard]

hope everyone had a good 4/13!! now that the My Little Zinestuck zine is out, I'd like to officially share my contributions with you all!

my works ranged from sincere, well thought out designs, to silly ones i was forced strongly recommended encouraged to draw by certain anonymous wifely entities.

either way it was SUPER fun and everyone did an incredible job! it was such a thrill to work alongside so many talented artists, i'm forever grateful i got to join!!

[orionspritesstuff]

denizens are a little more difficult to sprite than other things but i think i did fine here

the white whirlpool thing is thesis, the blue clock guy is chronos, and the red chick is arche. they’re all from greek mythology but arche is a little more obscure. thesis is a space denizen, chronos is a time denizen (duh), and arche is also a space denizen.

[notwhatyoucameherefor]

Rb for higher sample size because I have like 2 active followers