#humans are space wolves

[optimistic-tree]

Book Review: Out of the Dark by David Weber

I’ll be honest, I started looking for this one because it talked about the alien race being considered insane because we adhered to family dynamics, and the aliens didn’t even though they were a pack, because it was based on old assumptions about how wolf packs worked. This should have been a sign, but I was willing to try it. Who doesn’t like humans punching aliens for trying to hurt their kids?

It’s space war. Not like “humans and aliens brawling” like “the human military is scattered and society has broken down, and the only thing that matters now is how many weapons you have.”

And this is entirely pro-war, pro-military. Pro-hoarding. The politics are right of center, which might be nice for those who believe in those things, but I am not, and I doubt many people on this website are. And pro-hoarding, really? More concerned with making sure that the community isn’t overloaded or that they aren’t raided than the welfare with people they don’t identify with. And children. Points for caring about children. Perfectly willing to compromise with extremists, who have probably broken the law, which is what the narrative tells us, tells us to ignore the possibility he was committing crimes beforehand, about the one Muslim character, who it seems like was just advocating for less violence in the region.

The aliens are given relatable POV moments, and there’s some fun psychology moments, which were barely worth the rest of the book, but were still fun. The alien prisoners are experimented on, we never see anyone surrender until, maybe the end (I couldn’t finish it). Aliens try after massacring children, and I don’t blame the humans for not accepting their surrender, but no aliens ever try to surrender anywhere else? The information they get is from prisoners they’re torturing. These are the good guys.

There’s also a horrendous plot twist, like 90% of the way through the book. I would advise you spoil it for yourself, if your still interested and dislike giant genre shifts. I had to stop reading because of it. It’s so stupid.

Really. Unless you can’t stand spoilers.

Vampires. Futhermucking vampires.

And Sure, the next book explains their magic technology, and sure, their are hints I might have picked up if I had read Dracula Daily (I chose to muck my way through Frankenstein instead), but it’s pretty subtle, not everyone has read dracula, and no alien technology is used by humans for the WHOLE book. I’m pretty sure.

And sure, the situation was impossible, but that’s no reason to pull a deus ex vampire (vampire is vampire in latin). The death of all humans would have fit the story better. Or, heck, the death of all but a small remainder, unaffected by bio-weapons, isolated somewhere. It’d take a couple hundred years for the aliens to get back, and if they saw their were still humans, the might just turn around and go home. It’d be a little bit of a tonal shift, but it’d be hilarious, and a much more fitting end than vampires to a story about humans vs aliens. You wanted vampires, introduce them early

Gosh.

[cuprohastes]

I yam ann Alpha Wollffe

I have ANXIETY about where everyone IS, and how they are DOING

Have you checked in? Would you please use the buddy system!

Are you getting enough to DRINK?

Did you EAT today?

Have you taken your MEDS?

Did you get ENOUGH SLEEP?

Have you seen the TV REMOTE?

Who has been messing with the THERMOSTAT?

I am not MAD just DISAPPOINTED

Am I a GOOD ROLE MODEL?!

Where is my fanny pack full of TISSUES and PLASTERS?!

I want A NAP after LUNCH.

It is hard being an Alpha.

[planariaareneat]

How The Nocturnal Bottleneck and Nipples Make Us Human

Almost every post here considers what humans do have, really. It’s a little tiring; realistically every world has its harsh environments and vicious species and a sophont to match. We probably wouldn’t be unique for our adaptability or our persistence or even adrenaline

But our evolution is fucked up as hell, to put it lightly.

Mammals went through what’s been dubbed the nocturnal bottleneck essentially since the start of the mesozoic right up until the Cretaceous ended the archosaur’s exclusive hold over the daylight. We lost a lot of things from every mammal spending most of its time in either a cramped, suffocating burrow or scrounging around in the faint hours of nighttime. Our blood cells lost their nuclei to hold more oxygen while we spent time deep underground, we lost protections against ultraviolet rays in our skin and eyes, we can’t even repair our own DNA using the light of the sun. Most aliens probably wouldn’t have such traits unless their evolution followed a very similar path to ours. They’d be able to see ultraviolet and wouldn’t have to worry about sunburn and all the wonderful privileges essentially all fish, birds, amphibians, and reptiles enjoy as we speak. 

There’s also what we gained from spending so much time in the dark.

Brown fat is only found in mammals, it’s a special type of fat which bear cells with several oil droplets and are utterly jammed with mitochondria. This lets it make heat, a lot of it, fast. We don’t even need to shiver to induce this heat generation from brown adipose tissue - factor in our downright hyperactive mitochondria, and we can warm up quickly. Sure, it doesn’t have too much use in adult humans, but it keeps our infants warm and still provides a little boost the whole run we have in this universe.

Unless aliens also went through a time where their small ancestors had to face cold nights, they’d have to produce heat the old fashioned way when chilled. Aliens might have to shiver the whole time they’re in a cold room while the human watches in confusion, quite literally unshaken, and wonders if the room is a lot colder than the thermostat set to 60 says. The aliens stare at their companion in confusion, it’s just a normal temperature to shiver at after all, how is the human sitting so still?

Our small ancestors spending all their time out foraging at night is also why we have such a good sense of touch, smell, and hearing. They were more important senses than vision (we’re lucky to have even redeveloped basic color vision, frankly) at the time and place and simply ended up continuing to serve us well. Birds and reptiles rarely have acute senses of smell and the latter especially are lucky to have acute hearing, and birds rarely have impeccable hearing themselves either. Our skin is free of scales and honed to sensitivity, and our external ears and complicated ear bones provide an immense range of hearing (from 20 all the way to 17,000 hertz!).

Aliens might not be able to pin down the chirp of a cricket or the light click of a lock being picked. The human might be the only one on board a ship that can pick out the finer sounds of the engine’s constant thrum and know the critical difference between when everything is fine and when something is wrong. The human could probably pick out the sounds of an approaching enemy’s careless footsteps - they’re only as light enough for *them* to stop hearing them, after all - and be the one to see the horrified expression (well, more on that later) on their face when we get the drop on them in spite of their perceived stealth. 

But perhaps the most versatile, convoluted, amazing, and utterly unique trait we have is right on your face this instant. Lips.

Lips in most animals are a simple seal to hold in the mouth’s moisture and protect the teeth, even if they’re supple they’re NEVER muscular except in mammals, and we have only one thing to thank for it; milk and nipples. Lips evolved exclusively to allow babies to suckle, it required a vacuum to be created in the mouth, and with no other animal having anything like a nipple it never happened in other animals. Many animals make milk, to be frank, but no other animal has nipples.

Your cheeks and lips are a marvel among tetrapods, no other animal can suck like mammals can. Aliens wouldn’t have straws or even be able to sip from the edge of a glass, they’d have to have a proboscis or simply tilt the whole thing back. Aliens likely won’t have woodwind instruments or balloons you can blow into. We take so much about our lips for granted. Hell, our muscular faces are vital for expressions, we’re probably absolute facial contortionists among a cast of creatures with mandibles and beaks and expressionless scaly maws. Aliens might find us ridiculously easy to read, if anything, compared to their own kind (all the better to deceive them) - or perhaps they’d find us hard to decipher anyways, with our lack of color-changing skin or erectable crests of bright feathers. Baring teeth might not be seen as a sign of aggression in most of the universe, smiling would be all too distinctly human. 

Perhaps with how infectious we are sometimes, that’s what we’d contribute to the universe; others might have to make do with opening their mouths just enough to show their teeth or splaying their innumerable mouthparts with just the right curve, but perhaps we’d teach the galaxy to smile, one ally at a time. 

Wouldn’t that be amazing?

[wolven91]

They're Good Boys

“Abigail, get away from it!”

The human made no attempt to move away from the obviously apex predator that they had found evidence of, only days before on the latest planet to be surveyed in the oddly unresearched system. The planet was an iceball relatively close to the canid home system Anul. This system had been largely ignored due to the dangerous gravity wells that peppered the whole system. It was only now that they were investigating due to the unusual amount of stranded ships becoming an issue. Mainly because these ships were beginning to contain humans. 

Now the humans were seemingly desperate to get killed as the predator was a gigantic beast, the human barely came up to the top of its leg, its shoulders and back were only just reachable to the shorter human and even to the avian Guelex,  they barely reached its head. The poor avian was currently displaying his stress via extending his plumage to its maximum.

“He’s fine, see; he likes me!” The human shouted back, turning her head towards Faa breifly. The giant predator continued to lick and slather over the human’s ear instead of her face directly.

“It. Is. Tasting. You!!” He tried to penetrate the human’s exceptionally thick skull, but to no avail. The human turned back, reengaging her scratches to the sides of the monster’s face while using a strange voice, one reminiscent of the way one would speak to a young hatchling.

“Oooh, you’re just a big ‘ol space puppy aren’t you? Who’s a big space puppy? Who's a big scary six legged space puppy!?”

The creature collapsed to the ground and rolled onto its back partially, the human, not using this opportunity to flee, instead moved to rake her hands through the fluff that made up the creature’s belly. The set of hind legs began to kick in time to her attention.

Faa felt like he was going to moult at this rate.

“Human Abigail?!” Faa no longer cared for the Human Abigail who had the good sense not to climb on top of the predators. Human Max however, had appeared behind where Human Abigail was currently face deep into the belly of the beast, riding atop a different member of the behemoth’s pack.

“It’s like riding a horse! Only not really and completely different!” Human Max shouted from its back, his legs and stomach were completely obscured by the deep pelt of the creature. He reached down to scratch behind a massive ear, causing the creature to tilt its head and take several sideway steps in that direction.

“See! They’re good boys! It’s been years since I rode!”

“They- They’re not ‘good boys’! They’re dangerous!”

A large branch came flying from behind an ancient tree that had been growing on the ice planet for centuries. Moments later two more of the creatures came bursting from the undergrowth before growling and pulling at either end of the tree branch, fighting amongst themselves. Human Sarah appeared, pushing through the snow that reached her chest.

“Guys, they know ‘fetch’!”

“Awesome!” “Cool!” The group shouted.

Faa simply put a taloned hand on his face and shook his head. If Faa got eaten because of these Apes, he’s going to have words with the God of Challenges. 

This wasn’t fair.

“Faa, look, we can make it all the way back to the ship before nightfall if we take the Good Boys.”

Faa opened one eye at Human Abigail without removing his hand, Human Abigail was currently laying against the creature’s stomach on her back. She looked cosy and warm, ignoring the giant megafauna that was her ‘bed’.

“By riding them?”

“By riding them. We’ll have to give them treats though...”

The creature she was laying against, flinched, and sent her stumbling. It brought its muzzle all the way round towards Human Abigail and began to press it into her at different locations while the giant bellows of its lungs worked to sniff at her vigorously. The others that were in ear shot also took notice, as if understanding her meaning, if not her words. Human Abigail had the good sense to back up from the trio of predators that approached a few steps before falling over backwards into the snow bank.

Faa looked on in horror as he assumed the creatures began to eat Human Abigail, he didn’t even want to say ‘I told you so’, but before he could shout, run or even grumble, Human Abigail’s laughter broke out from below the muzzles that were pressing him into the snow.

“Stop it! Argh! I don’t have any on me ya daft things! Stop licking me! Let's go back and you can come with us! Pleh! Urgh! It got in my mouth! No!”

She had the decency to sound distressed now, but Faa knew she’d not learn from this experience, none of Faa’s team ever did. No wonder these humans didn’t travel in large groups; they hardly got any work done.

[sunderwight]

has anyone written a Loki series fic where Don the Jet Ski Salesman comes home one day to find his boys hiding something in the garage, and is tiredly like "is it snake? I better not go in there and find out you guys robbed a zoo--" only to open the garage door and see an injured, bewildered frost giant Loki prodding cautiously at a bag of doritos (the boys attempted to provide sustenance) (could be angst or good just be the version from the What If? episode trying to recover from a bender with Thor)

[proximasaur]

Opening 3 commissions in this style for $15usd each

Please dm me if interested; semi experimental; Paypal only

2/3 Open

No nsfw

Open to drawing humanoids, dragons, dinosaurs, monster, wolves, felines, equines, etc.

[lonesplashy]

"it's a wild animal not a pet" I think we should domesticate EVERY animal like we did with wolves and cats. I want to go into a pet store and be able to get a teddy bear sized bear. Lets band together as a society to make a bastardization of nature.

[theriu]

Aliens, after researching wolves and the humans’ fascination with them, determine that self-prscribed “lone wolves” are weak, outcast, hungry, and unstable. What they learn about actual wolf heirarchy makes them terrified and respectful of married couples with very large families.

[saritawolff]

Phew. This one took, uh… a bit longer than expected due to other projects both irl and art-wise, but it’s finally here. The long-awaited domestic animal infographic! Unfortunately, I didn’t have enough space to cover every single domestic animal (I’m so sorry, reindeer and koi, my beloveds) but I tried to include as many of the “major ones” as possible.

I made this chart in response to a lot of the misunderstandings I hear concerning domestic animals, so I hope it’s helpful!

Further information I didn’t have any room to add or expand on:

🐈 “Breed” and “species” are not synonyms! Breeds are specific to domesticated animals. A Bengal Tiger is a species of tiger. A Siamese is a breed of domestic cat.

🐀 Different colors are also not what makes a breed. A breed is determined by having genetics that are unique to that breed. So a “bluenose pitbull” is not a different breed from a “rednose pitbull”, but an American Pitbull Terrier is a different breed from an American Bully! Animals that have been domesticated for longer tend to have more seperate breeds as these differing genetics have had time to develop.

🐕 It takes hundreds of generations for an animal to become domesticated. While the “domesticated fox experiment” had interesting results, there were not enough generations involved for the foxes to become truly domesticated and their differences from wild foxes were more due to epigenetics (heritable traits that do not change the DNA sequence but rather activate or deactivate parts of it; owed to the specific circumstances of its parents’ behavior and environment.)

🐎 Wild animals that are raised in human care are not domesticated, but they can be considered “tamed.” This means that they still have all their wild instincts, but are less inclined to attack or be frightened of humans. A wild animal that lives in the wild but near human settlements and is less afraid of humans is considered “habituated.” Tamed and habituated animals are not any less dangerous than wild animals, and should still be treated with the same respect. Foxes, otters, raccoons, servals, caracals, bush babies, opossums, owls, monkeys, alligators, and other wild animals can be tamed or habituated, but they have not undergone hundreds of generations of domestication, so they are not domesticated animals.

🐄 Also, as seen above, these animals have all been domesticated for a reason, be it food, transport, pest control, or otherwise, at a time when less practical options existed. There is no benefit to domesticating other species in the modern day, so if you’ve got a hankering for keeping a wild animal as a pet, instead try to find the domestic equivalent of that wild animal! There are several dog breeds that look and behave like wolves or foxes, pigeons and chickens can make great pet birds and have hundreds of colorful fancy breeds, rats can be just as intelligent and social as a small monkey (and less expensive and dangerous to boot,) and ferrets are pretty darn close to minks and otters! There’s no need to keep a wolf in a house when our ancestors have already spent 20,000+ years to make them house-compatible.

🐖 This was stated in the infographic, but I feel like I must again reiterate that domestic animals do not belong in the wild, and often become invasive when feral. Their genetics have been specifically altered in such a way that they depend on humans for optimal health. We are their habitat. This is why you only really see feral pigeons in cities, and feral cats around settlements. They are specifically adapted to live with humans, so they stay even when unwanted. However, this does not mean they should live in a way that doesn’t put their health and comfort as a top priority! If we are their world, it is our duty to make it as good as possible. Please research any pet you get before bringing them home!

[tuulikki]

The thing is that the portrayal of Neanderthals as having been inherently grotesque and alien to H. sapiens is something we will never have proof of. But we do have proof that, in different locations and in different populations across time, we all found eachother desirable. We saw eachother and wanted to touch. And the offspring were held by their mothers and raised and had their own offspring in turn.

When you look for the first proof that H. sapiens found Neanderthals repulsive, you have to wait until the Victorian era, when the white masters of empires were busy portraying Neanderthals as stupid, brutish, and (of course) dark-skinned.

In more modern times, we’ve had people arguing that instead of seeing Neanderthals as Benighted Savages, they should instead be seen as Noble Savages, (allegedly) cruelly destroyed and driven from their lands by H. sapiens. Which one of their two you believe says more about your modern political views than it does about ancient H. sapiens.

And, whether we construct Neanderthals as Savage or Noble Savage, the fundamental assumption we project into the unfathomably distant past is still that H. sapiens saw Neanderthals as an Other, with the language we use being almost explicitly that of modern racial dynamics.

But we have no proof of any of that. We have no proof of hostilities. We know we co-existed and we had sex. That’s it.

Humans obviously have sex with some humans and kill others. We also know that, when small groups of humans occupy vast spaces with infrequent contact with others, unique cultures will always form, some more hospitable, some more neophobic/xenophobic. But many cultures of small settlements placed among huge unpeopled landscapes place supreme emphasis on hospitality to strangers. Plus, we fucking love other social animals, as evidenced by how we befriended wolves.

I’m a humourless weirdo and a wet blanket about popular constructions of Neanderthals as “monstrous”, and I freely admit it. But that’s because it’s tied up in legacies of imperialism. Not only that, but it also privileges one culture (yours, mine, modernity’s) as being most human by implicitly assuming we can project it onto people in the past. Since you don’t pretend that all global cultures share exact same values as you do, it doesn’t take more than a few moments’ reflection to realise you can’t do that to the past.

[proxycrit]

If this man has to haunt me, he has has to haunt you.

Meet Sweaty. He’s a 42 year old absol and lives with his human mom in Castelia, Unova.

Some Absol headcanons:

I do think part of why Absols have such a bad rep among people is partially due to folklore of them appearing before and after horrific disasters, but also because they have such a human face. Imagine seeing this mf in the dark woods watching you. Something that looks human, but is not. Something that sounds human, but is NOT. Follow this by a horrific landslide.

Do you see the problem. Humans remember human faces. Predators sometimes mimic their prey. Absols have the truly unfortunate evolutionary quirk of falling into both categories.

So yes, there was a huge stigma against absols which led to a pretty severe population decline.

In modern day (much like wolves), Absols have become media darlings, in large thanks to a the help of pokemon rangers who utilize Absol’s ability to sense weather as an indicator when to evacuate. They are a very long lived species and need lots of intense exercise, often declaring huge swaths of land as their personal territories. Absols also tend to get very anxious when they feel they do not have enough space, so keeping them with other pokemon’s usually a no no.

Sweaty’s mom used to be a pokemon ranger and found Sweaty stuck in a refrigerator. Nowadays, she lets him free roam—much to the chagrin of every other person in the area. Sweaty in turn makes himself a nuisance to the local icecream store, begging for treats.

(The kids love him. He comes home with ink and paint stained everywhere and it’s a nightmare to clean.)

Hate my human faced monstrosities? Thank @tjs-stuffs for this. Ciao!

[snippit-crickit]

could you give me tips on how to draw furries? specifically like anatomy tips :3

your art is really cool btw!!

Thank ya! hmm the way i learnt was just drawing regular anime wolves but they lacked the expressiveness of humans and i slowly started making them upright without realising it xd So i suppose, if you know how to draw animals, study humanoid bodies, if you know how to draw humans, study animals, and if you dont know neither then start with the one you like drawing better : D There are as many furry varieties as there are animals so its hard to give specific tips but i gotta say a real favourite way of drawing furry bodies is

zootopia concept art, we hate disney but this is gold actually

especially thissss, i dont know anything theoretical about this but it may be because lots of mammals have reduced collarbones too? You dont have to stick to these guides, lots of people just draw very human bodies when it comes to furries but think its a nice touch

heres some more, one thing i often see is about fur tufts, it can give the character some nice shapes if you space them correctly

[headspace-hotel]

i would love to enjoy Creature worldbuilding but I always get hung up in how the Iconic Creature, the large, charismatic, often predator-type beast with a backbone and legs and all that, is such an Egregiously Huge Anomaly in creaturedom, an Outlier in a world of nematodes, springtails, beetles, and nondescript fossorial mammals

It's not that I need realistic nematode biodiversity in my reading. It's just that humans are megafauna, but we don't realize that we are megafauna, and worldbuilders are unimpressed with anything smaller than a fox, even though a fox is absolutely vast in the grand scheme of things...

...and fantasy worlds are populated with Gigantic Creatures, hypercarnivores the size of a usual land megaherbivore in real life, because of the undeniable badassery of riding a giant wolf into battle or whatever. But I can't help but think: where is the rest? Y'all know that the tigers and wolves of the world are the tenuously small tip of a pyramid of animal biomass, right? That the large herbivores they prey upon are in turn a pebble perched atop the summit of a mountain, made of the frogs, snakes, rodents, bats, and little birds that are incomprehensibly more numerous, and yet in turn are insignificant compared with the bugs, worms, snails, and slugs, let alone the microorganisms that render us all a mere smudge on the lens of deep time?

A deer, a human...we are gods among life-forms, worlds in ourselves inhabited by our own creatures. Disgust towards parasites is of course an instinctive reaction created by evolutionary pressures, but just think! animals vast enough to be inhabited by their own macroscopic animals! Imagine being a worm in the belly of a deer, unable to survive outside it any more than a human can survive in the vacuum of space, unable perhaps to comprehend that anything exists outside of the body of your god.

Imagine being a tardigrade frolicking in a pasture of algae and moss, unable to understand that this meadow exists on the branch of an enormous tree, and that this tree is itself only a single tree in a forest of millions, that when viewed from above resemble a lush carpet much like the moss. Imagine being a centipede in the permanent darkness of a deep underground cave, unable to know or imagine that there are other caves, that even though you and a hundred thousand generations of your ancestors have been confined to this single cave, that thousands of other caves exist, and that beyond these caves there is a world so much bigger you cannot possibly understand it, a world that stretches farther than you could see or travel in a thousand lifetimes, a world with no ceiling.

Imagine being removed from the cave! You learn that you ancestors came from this infinite place beyond the cave, that your relatives inhabit every part of it, that your family is more numerous than you could ever learn to count!

...what was I talking about again?...

[rockatanskette]

One of the running themes in "humans are space orcs" circles is the idea that humans will bond with anything. I can think of plenty of stories of humans making friends with wild animals, alligators, predators, creatures that aliens would immediately recognize as too dangerous for contact. But I was reading a story about two orangutans released back into the wild today and there's a certain element to that story I haven't seen so often: humans will bond with animals regardless of whether the bond is reciprocal.

For every story of a human making friends with some unlikely creature, there are dozens of stories of conservation specialists tranquilizing animals, tending to their wounds or illness, and releasing them because they're too dangerous to handle consciously. Stories of tagging birds of prey and timber wolves and Siberian tigers. Fat Bear Week? Any of those bears would rip your face off without hesitation. But they're round and fluffy and intimidating and beautiful and we love them even though they hate us. We make an effort to protect our monsters, because we love our monsters.

Imagine an alien planet that's experiencing ecological degradation. Their flora is dying, and they can't figure out why. And, offhandedly, in a diplomatic mission, an allied planet mentions that humans have successfully reversed similar devastation on Earth. So they reach out and Earth sends some experts to check it out. And what do they suggest? Reintroducing an apex predator that used to be a scourge against alien settlements. The species still exists in other regions of the planet, but it is slowly disappearing outside of its native habitat.

The aliens are askance. They've told bedtime stories to their young of these creatures: how they tear apart their prey, how they've eaten their organs and rip apart their homes. Some suggest that it's a trick—that the humans are trying to prompt them into destroying themselves.

But there are many alien cultures on this planet, with many different stories and some of them agree. The world watches in anticipation as the humans help their predators. They seek them out, these fearless otherworlders, putting them to sleep and tending their wounds. They keep track of the beasts, not to harm them, but to protect them.

At first the doomsayers' prophecy seems to come true. The predators devour prey animals like a feast, like a slaughter to people who have never been so close to the circle of life. But then, slowly, not over months but over years, comes change. The prey no longer eat the leaves and buds of every tree; some are left to bloom and fall. The refuse rots in the dirt, and the floods cease as the soil grows thick with compost and rotted bone, thick enough to hold water. The shapes of rivers change to protect their surroundings from the rain. The pollinators rebound.

Decades later, other cities and nations begin to accept this human myth of "conservation." Champions arise, alien champions, now, who go into the depths of the wilderness and the seas to protect those predators from the apathy of time.

Not all of them make it. This is something else the humans teach. Sometimes the tranquilizers are not enough. Sometimes the timing is wrong. Sometimes accidents happen. And when they do, the aliens look to humans for an answer for why they should protect these creatures who have killed those they love?

"Because they knew the risks," the humans say. "Because they would be the first to speak to save them. Because they taught you to see the beauty in the wild and you must not close your eyes."

So, despite themselves, they don't.

[satoruxx]

THE SPACE BETWEEN COMFORT AND CHAOS.

✧ PAIRING: wolf!toji fushiguro x f!reader | 4.3k words

✧ SUMMARY: wolfhybrid!toji, hybrid au, flashback centric, grumpy x sunshine, animalistic behavior, mentions of injuries, violence, societal inequality, arguments, hateful speech towards hybrids, dysfunctional families, and a shit ton of angst and anger, lil fluff at the end !!

✧ RHEYA'S NOTE: hiii it's my birthday this weekend so i'm dropping chapter 4 as a quick thank you for all the support !! i love you all so much <33 this one is very toji centric and gives a lot of his past and lore to explain why he is the way he is and what led him to find reader !! there is a lot of inequality in this chapter so keep that in mind as you proceed. as always i would recommend checking out the previous parts before reading this :33

prev. | series masterlist.

the smell of blood makes toji's eyes crack open. it fills his nostrils, heavy and metallic, and it makes his hair stand on end. despite being so used to that scent, it still makes him uneasy, because sometimes he cannot tell whose blood it is.

once his eyes adjust to the dim lighting, he can't fall back asleep, though he knows he still needs rest. a series of cracks echo from his joints as he sits up, pulses of fatigue swimming through his muscles. pushing up from the ground, he casually approaches the metal bars of his cell.

his cage.

his nose twitches, the smell of blood stronger now that he's closer. a loud yawn rips from his throat, eyes catching some guards dragging another hybrid who had fought that day. he watches them throw the unconscious animal into his cell, not sparing another glance as they turn away. the sounds of their boots gets on toji's nerves, but he does not even have enough time to pity the poor creature.

another set of guards approach his cell. he's sure that they might once again tell him off for being too aggressive, or for not following orders, or for another whipping, but he's saved this time because they're just escorting a hybrid.

a familiar hybrid.

"what's wrong?" toji drawls, lips tugging into a casual smirk. "did y'lose?"

the tiger hybrid hisses angrily in return, as though personally offended, and bares his teeth. his striped ears starkly contrast his pinkish hair.

"like hell," sukuna answers proudly.

toji is about to comment on the various bloodied scratches littering sukuna's body, but one of the guards roughly shoves the tiger into his cell.

"get in!"

sukuna turns to pin him with a murderous glare, tone even and chilling. "touch me again and i'll kill you."

the guard scoffs, unbothered, before shutting the barred door behind him. sukuna's anger rises, but he does not say anything else, choosing to stare daggers at them until they've disappeared around the corner. toji understands the feeling. it would be a piece of cake to rip their throats out, especially for predators as vicious as wolves and tigers.

but they can't. one scratch on a human and they'd be put down.

a beat of silence passes. toji is sure the hybrid sitting across the hall is also thinking about the same thing, so used to biting his tongue just to stay alive.

(he remembers the first day sukuna got thrown in, hisses and snapping teeth as he cursed the guards with all sorts of creativity. toji had been underground long enough to see the same spectacle over and over again, and so he hadn't really given a damn at that time. the two passed weeks in silence, purely focused on their own individual fights and then immediately falling asleep once back in their respective cells.

toji was no expert at reading people, but he could tell that the tiger was as stubborn as he was—they refused to acknowledge one another.

and when they were finally pitted against each other, it was a messy fight. toji still remembers the way the crowd had roared at their aggressive attacks, every draw of blood eliciting some sick twisted pleasure within them.

toji had been used to putting in the bare minimum during his fights, finding it relatively easy to win against other predators. but that fight against sukuna was the first time he struggled a little bit.

the tiger will never admit it, but the feeling was definitely mutual.

so after the brawl, when they were both quietly sitting in their cages and hissing at their wounds stubbornly, there was a brief moment of acknowledgement.

"where the hell did you learn how to fight like that?" the tiger had eyed toji warily, thick brows furrowed in a way that made him look extra grumpy.

after that, it seemed that there was a mutual sense of respect between the two of them. they are not friends per se, definitely not. both toji and sukuna know that if it came down to it, they would kill the other in the arena if it meant staying alive.

but there was an understanding that they were both on the same level. and it seemed that those who ran the fights understood that too.

after all, fights between the two of them were always a very popular spectacle.)

even now, sukuna doesn't look at toji, too busy muttering a string of insults aimed at the guard from earlier. toji ignores them, used to it. they remain in that same silence, not uncomfortable, but not really comfortable either.

toji takes a seat, crossing his legs and leaning against the cold bars. he can still hear the sounds of the guards footsteps echoing through the halls, and that just makes him crave freedom—another familiar feeling.

he should be used to it by now. craving what he cannot have.

sukuna seems to know what he's thinking, because he scoffs with a dramatic roll of his eyes. "don't start."

"you don't ever think about running?" toji ponders, dragging his claws across the stone floor. the tiger's ears twitch, sensitive to the sound, and he throws toji a scathing scowl.

"run? where the hell would we go?" the tiger grumbles, crossing his bulky arms. "you know they'll just find us again. it's pointless."

"but it's happened before," toji insists, scratching behind his ear absentmindedly. there have always been whispers floating through the compound, of hybrids with guts of steel that took it upon themselves to make a run for it. though several were caught and devastatingly punished, there were those who they never saw again. the idea that they must be somewhere where light shines and wind blows is strangely comforting.

"yeah rarely," the tiger snorts in return. a quiet hiss of displeasure escapes his lips as he notices the claw marks running up his arm, and he carefully begins licking at his wounds. "most of the time those fools get caught. and then they get punished."

toji shrugs noncommittally, leaning his head against the bars. "worth the risk."

sukuna curiously peers at him from over his injured arm, heavy brows furrowed. "you really think it's that much better up there?"

"anywhere's better than in here." toji says it resolutely, and sukuna, normally so snippy, says nothing to rebuke him.

before the conversation can continue, toji's nostrils fill with a familiar scent—cigarettes, ironed clothes, faint whiskey. he suppresses a roll of his eyes.

"look who it is." he sarcastically cranes his neck, watching as shiu kong approaches his cell with a nonchalant smile.

"you sure do look relaxed for someone who just had me do a shit ton of paperwork." shiu leans against the wall, eyeing toji through the cell. toji does not like that he has to look up to meet his gaze, so he gets to his feet and casually crosses his arms.

"what the fuck did i do?"

"lots of people enjoyed your fight yesterday. with the polar bear?" shiu pulls out a cigarette, and toji's nose crinkles. "you've got an increase in bets, y'know?"

"who cares?" toji mutters, pushing away from the bars to pace around his cell.

it's not like any of the hybrids get that money.

"i do," shiu chuckles, cigarette balanced between his lips. "you're helping me get paid."

"lucky you," toji sarcastically shoots back. shiu snorts in amusement, crossing his arms.

"anyways, i'm thinking this is a good time to host a big fight for you. the timing is good." toji's "manager" (if that's what you can call him) eyes the wolf as he exhales a puff of smoke. toji's eyes narrow in return, a feeling of anticipation and mild irritation crawling up his skin.

"so you two—" shiu nods his head towards the wolf and the grumpy tiger sitting across the hall. "—prepare for a show, alright?"

sukuna curses colorfully, and toji rolls his eyes. "relax. i'm not giddy to fight you either, asshole."

"yeah because you'll lose," the tiger hisses, baring his teeth.

"oh yeah? that's not what happened last time." toji grins wolfishly, watching sukuna's anger rise.

"because you fucking cheated!"

"aw, little cat can't handle a few bites?" toji's amusement becomes more palpable, enjoying the argument—a very common occurrence for the two of them. "that's why dogs are better."

"i'll kill you," sukuna utters ominously, his striped tail puffed and curling in an aggressively defensive display.

"try it," toji smirks back.

"alright easy boys," shiu chuckles, shaking his head in mild exasperation. "save that energy for the actual fight. people eat that shit up."

"and somehow we're the animals," sukuna grumbles, deciding he's done with the conversation as he heads over to the corner of his cell and curls up on the ground.

"well yeah," shiu shrugs, unfazed. "you should be used to that by now."

they are.

"anyway i figured i'd let you know." the older man turns to face toji. "i know most of the fights are pretty easy for you. but since you both are top tier fighters, prepare how you need to."

"it's not like we've never fought before," toji replies dryly, ears twitching. "i know how it goes down."

"well okay." shiu adjusts his suit jacket, shoving his hands into his pockets.

from the corner of his eye, toji can see sukuna listening in, face impassive.

"you two give me a good show, alright?" shiu casually waves over his shoulder, before heading off back in the direction he came.

"whatever," sukuna grunts, turning on his side. toji watches the tiger's tail lazily flick—side to side. "i hate dogs."

toji lets out a dry chuckle. "well i'm not the biggest fan of cats either, asshole."

again, they aren't friends, but the bleakness of their situation makes it easier to tolerate one another.

a week later, they both face off in the area as promised. shiu claps toji on the back before he heads in, a gesture that makes the wolf's skin prickle, but he brushes it off. he could have someone worse be in charge of him, but shiu is a bit easier to get along with than most of the humans down there. though toji isn't naive—the only reason shiu is so casually cheery around him is because toji is his biggest moneymaker.

that's what it all came down to.

sukuna and toji have both fought enough times to know how to play to the crowd's wishes. they bark and snarl at each other like they are truly wild, claws and teeth and blood everywhere because they know that's what gets the humans going.

that's what gets them to open their wallets at least.

sukuna takes the victory this time around, which is not inherently unusual—they both have a fairly even split of victories and losses. they play up their enmity, and everyone goes wild.

even though hybrids are the shackled ones, somehow these humans remind toji of puppets—so easily manipulated.

the two of them stand and rile up the crowd at the end, acting like they truly are nothing but feral animals who know only to growl and snap at each other. as soon as they hear the sounds of money being exchanged and the roar of conversation they are escorted back to their cells.

toji's ears ring with the sounds of groans and cheers, the same familiar words grating his ears.

"i told you sukuna would win this one!"

"yeah but i said toji would draw first blood, so pay up!"

imbeciles. savages. nothing humane about them.

in their cells, both of them do their best to clean up their wounds. but a fight this aggressive usually results in equally rough damage.

"i think you fractured my rib or something," toji grunts, wincing as he sits down. sukuna throws him an unimpressed look through the bars of his cage.

"not my fault you're weak."

toji's middle finger flies up automatically, and sukuna's lips pull up to one side. "ask them for medical if it's that bad."

"yeah right," toji snorts, licking away the blood that has been dripping from the corner of his mouth. "like they'll listen."

it's more of a curse that hybrids have a better pain tolerance than humans. the medics here never take their injuries seriously for that exact reason.

no instead, they are expected to clean up as they can and prepare for the next fight, letting their body heal as well as possible. humans have always been so hypocritical.

they both relax in a welcome silence. toji suddenly realizes how tired he is, jade eyes straining as he attempts to fix himself up. he knows the rules—damaged merchandise is treated as such.

his ears pick up the faint sound of footsteps approaching, and he realizes that it's probably shiu coming over to update them about the earnings of their fights.

but he is entirely surprised.

"wow, you're definitely a sight."

toji's eyes narrow, teeth gritting. his mood plummets, ears straightening and tail going rigid. the sound of that voice makes every bit of hatred in toji's body come bubbling to the surface. he glares over his shoulder, spitting out each word with extreme difficulty. "what the fuck do you want?"

naoya zenin looks down his nose at the wolf, a greasy smile on his face. naobito zenin stands just behind him, arms crossed with a barely visible look of disgust on his face.

toji's cousin conveniently ignores the accusatory question, peering around the cells and hallway with feigned interest. "these conditions are terrible!"

he finally pins toji with his gaze, an evil smile pulling at his lips. "well, that's to be expected for animals."

"what the fuck do you want?!" toji growls, claws digging into the ground. naoya's eyes light up at the anger, knowing full well that those claws can never come anywhere near him.

"temper! temper!" the blonde gasps, tutting at toji like he's nothing more than a child. "haven't you learned how to control yourself by now?"

"let me out of this cell and i'll show you just how much control i have." the wolf's voice is no more than a rumble, dark and ominous because there is nothing in the world that toji hates more than his own family.

naoya shakes his head, feigning a look of disappointment. "so violent. it's a good thing we put you in here. who knows how dangerous you could've been to us."

the words hit their mark, a jab of self-hatred. toji's green eyes flit over to his uncle, sharp and accusatory.

the one who ratted him out to this godforsaken place.

toji knows when normal families have a predator hybrid born into their home, they lie and cheat and hide them away from this life—too desperate to keep their child away from such danger. after all, it's not the child's fault they were born a predator.

but not toji's family. not the zenins, who took one look at him and waited for the second he turned 18 before hauling him off.

nothing but a bunch of rats.

he knows that he was worth a lot of money. a healthy and fit wolf hybrid, broader and stronger than most of his own species. and of course, his family was quick to sell him off, glad to be rid of this curse on their family—the only shame.

toji had grown up knowing he was hated, but he never thought a family could do something so horrible to one of their own. he stopped seeing the best in people after that.

"you brought this on yourself," his uncle states now, emotionless. his opinion on hybrids has not changed one bit, and yet he shamelessly comes to the compound to collect a portion of the winnings that toji earns. "born with tainted blood."

"you're acting like it's my fucking fault, old man," toji spits out, hackles raised. he wants them to leave, because all he feels when looking at them is nausea.

"it's your damn mother's fault. couldn't keep away from my brother. she ruined him," naobito's emotionless voice takes on a tone of hatred, and toji tenses. "filthy dog whore."

toji's reaction is instantaneous. he's at the bars in a second, teeth bared and spewing curses as he makes a mad grab for either of them. he doesn't care—all he wants to do is tear them to shreds. toji can feel his wounds open further, can feel blood dripping over his skin, but all that seems miniscule when they are in front of him.

the cause of every single misfortune he has ever had.

naoya hops out of the way, laughing—it is a mocking, grating laugh that echoes throughout the hall as he watches toji desperately struggle. "see see! this is why you're dangerous!"

naobito shakes his head, as though he's thoroughly disappointed, but he does not say anything else.

"anyways, well done today!" naoya continues, grinning as he crosses his arms. "you earned a lot of money for us."

toji glares at him, dropping his arm and taking a step back. somehow, being further in his cell is much more comforting than being in their line of sight. he keeps his lips tightly shut.

naoya's voice turns taunting as naobito heads off without another word. "such a shame my dear cousin wasn't born normal like the rest of us." he follows his father without a care in the world, knowing how well his words sting. "had to be born an animal freak."

the hallways is empty. toji takes a few steadying breaths, pushing the anger away because he knows that there is truly no point in keeping it. it's not like this anger has done him any good. maybe if he had gotten angry earlier, he would have zenin blood on his hands—the thought gives him a sick sense of satisfaction.

"your family fucking sucks…" sukuna pipes up from across the hall. toji scoffs out a laugh, but it is far from amused. he turns away.

suddenly the blood on his hands makes him feel disgusting—so much more animalistic than human.

"tell me about it," he mutters, back turned. his ears pick up the sounds of sukuna curling up in his corner, and in a few minutes, quiet rumbling snores follow.

toji sighs, approaching his sink and staring at the cracked mirror he's grown used to seeing himself in. he takes in his reflection, disgust rolling in his stomach.

he thinks he'd probably be considered decently attractive if he was a regular old human. but the dark furry ears, the sharp canines, and all the scars ruin him. adding his haggard clothing and feral eyes and all the blood and dirt on him, he can understand why he is considered so untouchable.

an animal in every right.

he turns the sink on. he is briefly reminded of another time, a time where he lived in a family house and slept in a futon that was warmer than anything he's ever slept in. he can remember wearing things other than rags, occasionally a yukata and other times a t-shirt. he can remember eating a home cooked meal and drinking sake and feeling sunlight on his skin.

and yet even in those better times, he has always had to hear the words of his family cursing his existence. cursing his mother's name for seducing his father and ruining their bloodline with her animal blood.

the only dark stain on the pristine zenin family.

toji sighs, scrubbing the blood from under his claws—like clockwork. the water in the sink turns a mocking shade of pink, and as horrible as it is to say, toji is glad the blood is not his.

he wipes his paws across his ragged clothes, and stares at himself in the mirror.

he isn't ashamed to admit it—but he hates what he sees.

naoya's laughter rings in his ears as he shuts his eyes.

"hey toji?"

his eyes snap open. when the haze clears he sees your features come into focus, soft and curious. your scent floods his nose, and a pleasant shiver runs up his skin. there is a quick sense of relief when he realizes that he had been dreaming of a time in the past, and he steels himself, expression indifferent as he sits up. he briefly recognizes the stark contrast between the hardness of the stone floor in his cell and the softness of your couch—his tongue sits heavy in his mouth.

"what?" he grunts, rubbing at his eyes. he tries to throw you a mock irritated glance, but either it comes off too mild or you've become good at ignoring it. "when'd you get here?"

"a few minutes ago. i got takeout." your lips pull into a teasing smile. "unless you'd rather go back to sleep?"

he pins you with a scathing glare, and annoyingly enough, your smile becomes wider. he stands up, popping his joints and following you to your kitchen table, before diligently taking a seat—in his chair.

toji silently watches you bustle around, grabbing utensils and plates to evenly distribute the food. his stomach growls eagerly, and he realizes just how hungry he is—he recognizes that his body is getting used to being fed so often, and he does not know how to feel about that.

toji's eyes zero in on silly details, not knowing why he does it. your hair is a little messy, not as neat as when you left for work that morning. you've taken off your jacket, the absence of the restrictive fabric making your movements easier. he thinks you've probably had a good day, because your expression, though fatigued, is still relaxed—a small, almost miniscule smile remains on your face.

there a strange satisfaction the settles in his chest when he notices that. he doesn't know why, but the idea that you've had a nice day rather than a difficult one puts him at ease.

"how was your day?" you speak up, briefly making eye contact with him.

(toji does not understand why the small contact makes his stomach flip.)

he grunts, nonchalant. "not bad. didn't do much."

"the injuries are good?"

toji rolls his eyes, dropping his chin into his palm as he pins you with an intrusive stare. "yeah yeah. you ask this every day."

"well it can be good one day and not good the next," you reply defensively, frowning at the chicken you're currently dropping into his plate. but you look satisfied to hear his answer.

toji chuckles mutely. "sure kid."

(the nickname came randomly. you never commented on it. he didn't either.)

he hesitates for a second, before clearing his throat. "how was yours?"

you glance up at him, too quick for him to analyze the expression, but he thinks he catches a faint trace of pleasant surprise. "it was good. boring but not bad at all."

he nods awkwardly—the internal satisfaction grows stronger. his stomach rumbles again as you walk over and place his plate in front of him, and the smell hits his nose immediately—his hunger is all consuming.

(your scent is one of the few human scents he has truly found pleasant.)

and yet he finds himself patiently waiting until you plate your own food, sitting across him quietly. he presses his hands together, bowing his head as he mutters a quiet "thank you for the food" before tucking in.

(he does not say your name, but he thinks he is thanking you—his own twisted version of a god.)

he stays quiet for most of the meal, focusing on the unique and savory taste of the food. months ago he would not have imagined being able to consume such delicacy, but all you have done since you walked into his life is show him that he can have much more than he ever dreamed he could.

you blabber about random things as you eat, telling him about something you saw or what you did throughout the day. he listens.

you're in the middle of updating him about some stupid work drama, which, as embarrassing as it is to say, toji has been looking forward to hearing about. he does not interrupt you, trying to rack his brain for all the details you've spilled the last time.

(it's pathetic how quick he finds them. something about listening to you talk that makes everything else seem useless in comparison.)

"so anyways her husband found out and got mad. but then she basically tried to deny it and said that he was accusing her of nothing." you shove a mouthful of rice into your mouth, rolling your eyes. your tongue flicks out to lick at your lips—toji's eyes shamefully trace the movement. "it's a whole thing now because obviously the dude she was having the affair with works with us too."

"what a bitch," toji answers. your eyes crinkle with amusement, eager to hear him participating. you've probably since realized that he does find your gossip interesting. but it's more than that—he does not know why it's so easy to talk to you.

"right? i hate cheaters," you mutter, stabbing at your chicken.

he does too. something about being a dog that makes loyalty so damn important to him.

(maybe that's why he feels physically ill when he thinks about leaving your side.)

you continue rambling about your cheating coworker with a newfound conviction. toji listens, occasionally dropping a dry remark, and you either laugh or nod emphatically. his lips quirk upward at every reaction. he continues eating his food—slowly so that he can match your pace. which is odd, because he was so damn hungry before.

but even as he quietly chews on the flavored meat, he finds that satiety comes a lot quicker when he quietly listens to you talk.

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[zooophagous]

If you put a bunch of horses, zebras and donkeys in a large field together, with enough grass, vegetation, water, etc. to consume but without any human intervention - would there be interbreeding going on? If not, what do you think this scenario would look like more generally? Thanks in advance :)

Generally, when there is no human intervention, hybridization is very rare.

Horses are present in Africa, where there are populations of both wild ass and zebra, and yet wild zorse or even wild mules are basically unheard of. See also, the American southwest, where horses and burros are both invasive and yet you don't see feral mules among them.

This is because animals that have speciated, or become different species, have different estrus cycles, different courtship rituals and different behavior patterns that tend to make matings of this type very rare. Especially with horses, where mares tend to live in a herd that is protected by a stallion that will fight to the death over breeding rights to said mares.

A feral burro would not likely fare well against a feral horse stallion, if it attempted a mating with a feral mare at all.

You also see this even with animals that are much closer related to one another such as dogs, wolves and coyotes. All three of these animals have considerable overlap and can even produce viable offspring unlike a horse and a donkey. However it's still exceedingly rare for it to happen in the wild.

Wolves and coyotes are seasonal breeders that go into estrus at different times, and the strong territorial nature of these animals means they seldom mix. A wild wolf and a wild dog, or a wild dog and a wild coyote, or a wild wolf and wild coyote, are more than likely going to see each other as either a threat or a prey item and attack it accordingly.

Being raised by humans and made to tolerate one another with behavioral modification and artificial introductions to create cross species relationships, often by introducing the animals when they're still babies, gets them over the differences that usually prevent their union.

While sometimes wild hybrids do happen naturally, even then many times it's considered a survival response to pressures exerted on them by humans. See the eastern coyote, which is said to have considerable wolf ancestry, which may have happened because wolves were so strongly persecuted as to be almost entirely wiped out while the coyote was able to adapt. The more adaptable or desperate wolves threw their lot in with the survivors. (Though there is also some conjecture that even the eastern coyote is much less of a hybrid and more of just a large coyote without as much wolf or dog influence as previous believed)

Nature doesn't tend to encourage hybridization, and while you may get one or two fluke mules from such a group, if they had enough space to escape one another and access to their own kind to mate with, you wouldn't see it very much.