#i agree marinette is fucked over by the writing

[mochinek0]

3 Steps Back (meme)

Marinette stood awkwardly as she was confessed to, yet again. Before she could say anything, she saw someone rushing towards them in the distance.

"Um, can you take three giant steps backwards?" Marinette asked.

Confused, the person stepped back. In the blink of an eye, they found a dagger tip at their throat.

'What the fuck?'

They looked up to see Marinette with her arms around some guy's waist.

"Who is this guy?" he questioned, out loud.

"This is my very overprotective boyfriend." Marinette smiled.

The guy paled and took another step backwards.

"Got it." he announced and rushed away.

Marinette sighed as she let go of Damian.

"Habibiti, I could have handled him." he declared.

Marinette leaned up and kissed him.

"I don't want to call your dad and tell him your in jail for maiming." she replied.

Damian rolled his eyes, putting the blade away, "He can afford to bail me out."

"Like all the other times?" she questioned with a smile, "You're cute when you're jealous."

"People should stop asking you out." Damian huffed.

"I have an idea." Marinette announced, "You have to wait until tomorrow. I don't think you have anything to worry about after that."

Marinette walked into school with a shirt that read: Property of Damian Wayne. Damian blushed at the familiar writing style. He had seen it on cheerleaders at forced functions. She had chosen a dark blue shirt and yellow colors. It was reminiscent of when he went to Gotham Academy.

"Is this helpful, Dami?" Marinette asked.

The people around them stopped what they were doing to stare at the pair. Damian said nothing, but grabbed her hand and pulled her further into the school. Marinette smiled at his approval. Damian tried not to flush red at the warning sign on his girlfriend. It was a giant keep away sign.

'Why hadn't I thought about this sooner?'

Lila couldn't believe what she was seeing. Marinette was wearing a shirt that flaunted Damian Wayne as hers. There was no way that was going to happen; not while she was around.

"Damian, " Lila voiced in fake concern, "did you lose a bet?"

Damian merely glared at her. Marinette smiled from her place on his arm.

"It's okay, Habibi." Mari spoke, "It must be strange for her to see people like this; so happy."

Damian smirked and looked down at her. Lila couldn't believe that not only had Marinette talked back to her, but Damian Wayne had smiled at the goody-goody's snarky comment.

"You're one to talk." Lila lashed out, "Everyone hates you! Who wouldn't hate a bully?"

"You mean the pathetic rumors you spread around?" Marinette asked, "Only that one class believes you. The rest of the school laughs when your back is turned."

Lila heard people giggle behind them. It wasn't just one person, either. It was multiple people.

"Marinette is my property." Damian declared, "The shirt doesn't lie. She's my girlfriend and has been for two years."

Marinette smiled, "Damian got a little possessive when someone tried to ask me out again, yesterday."

"That is twenty people, who have asked you out in the past five months." Damian hissed.

"People?" Lila questioned.

Marinette blushed, "I've had girls confess to me, too. I don't mind wearing the shirt. Hopefully, after today, I won't have to stop Damian from attempting murder."

Damian and Marinette walked passed Lila. Lila moved to the sidelines as other people started to speak up.

"Damn, Damian made sure to scoop up the 'Queen of the School'."

"The Queen?"

"Do you expect anything else from a Wayne?"

Lila walked to class in silence. As she got closer, she could hear new whispers.

"Did you see Marinette?"

"Yeah, she was all over the Wayne kid!"

"I heard they're dating!"

"No they're not!"

"Everyone is talking about it! They have been toegther for two years!"

"Damian was the one to announce it."

"I never knew that Marinette was so popular."

"I feel bad for all those people she turned down, but she was already taken."

"What about her bullying Lila? I thought we all agreed it was because she was jealous of Lila getting close to Adrien."

"I don't think that's the case and it sounds like it hasn't been for awhile."

Lila decided to wait until after the bell to walk into class. From her spot, she noticed Damian walk Marinette to class.

"I will see you at lunch." Damian spoke.

She hated seeing Marinette smile.

"Habibiti, I must ask you one question." he spoke.

"What is it?" she asked.

"What am I to do if your shirt fails and people still try to claim what is mine?" he questioned.

Marinette stayed silent for a moment.

"I can wear this at least every two weeks, but I'm sure everyone will know by the end of the day." she began.

"And if they persist?" he growled.

"I'm sure they'll learn how possessive you are over the coming days." Marinette declared, "I think Bruce will be even more surprised he's not bailing you out of jail and paying for hospital fees."

"Father can afford it." Damian sighed.

Damian leaned down and kissed her.

"My statement stands; I will see you at lunch." he announced, before leaving.

Lila stayed flushed against the lockers, as Damian walked passed her. She sighed and sank to the floor.

'Jail? He hurt people for her? His father just bailed him out?'

She suddenly spotted a pair of shoes by her own feet. Lila quickly looked up and saw Damian Wayne glaring at her.

"I suggest you leave Marinette alone from now on." Damian declared, "My mother taught me that woman are manipulative. She taught me how to fight. I don't care if you are a girl; if you continue to spread rumors and I find out you started it, you will be injured beyond repair."

"You would be expelled." Lila spoke, softly, "You can't let Marinette manipulate you like this."

Damian quickly punched the locker next to her head. Lila slowly looked at his hand and saw the locker had been dented around his hand. He slowly pulled away, revealing the imprint of his hand.

He leaned in close and whispered, "Now imagine that being your jaw. You would never speak again. No more lies. I didn't move to Paris to be with Marinette; Father sent me because I was too violent away from her. It wouldn't be my first or last time breaking bones."

Damian turned and walked away. Lila snapped her eyes away from the locker as the bell rang. She quickly ran to class. As she sat down, she decided she was never going to ever say Marinette's name again.

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[theerurishipper]

This is in response to some arguments in defense of the finale I've seen recently, and if you do believe these, then more power to you! But I disagree, and I'm gonna talk about why.

Rant under the cut. Fair warning, this gets pretty salty.

So I've seen a lot of arguments about how it just wouldn't be possible to have Adrien in the final battle, whether it be because it would be too traumatic for him and we can't explore that in the middle of a fight, or because it would take away focus from Marinette and she would be irrelevant ultimately. And I actually agree!

But what could possibly be done to resolve this? Oh, I know! Fucking write better.

If you were going to put Adrien in the position of being central to the story and write him out with the excuse that he can't live up to that role for various reasons, then why did you write him in that role? It's obvious to anyone that if Gabriel is Adrien's father, then the emotional weight of the conflict would be centered on him and not Marinette. Then why did you still write that into the show? If you wanted to focus on Marinette over Adrien anyway, then why did you make Gabriel be Hawkmoth? Let some other rando be Hawkmoth! And now there's no value to Gabriel being the villain beyond giving Marinette some material for her grand speech (which didn't do shit cause she still lost).

And if you were going to say that Adrien was too traumatized to be in the battle or that he wouldn't be able to deal with it well or that we couldn't see that... write around it? Have him deal with it before, or something, I don't know! Maybe give him that sweet sweet character development? Maybe let the friends who are supposed to support him actually do that? Idk man, this is all coming across as a bunch of excuses to me.

The thing is, this is a kids show. It's not real. The writers control everything that happens. It's not about "realism," it's about narrative payoff. It's about the most satisfying outcome. It's about character arcs. If Adrien was never supposed to face his father in a fight, then why make him a superhero? Could have just let him be Adrien the teen model love interest while Marinette is the superhero. Why give him powers which thematically represent him breaking free from his oppressive life and an enmity with his own father if it never mattered? If "it's us against the world, my lady," and "we'll get all the Miraculous back together," never mattered, then why include it? If two partners chosen to fight evil together and the yin-yang symbolism never mattered, why set it up?

If you set something up, you have a responsibility to deliver on it, and Miraculous failed. And yeah. I get that it's hard. I'm not saying writing is easy. But anything is better than this! Writing is your job, and I don't expect literal perfection, but I expect it to fulfill the basic expectations of writing. I expect it to at least be good. This is not good. They literally ignored their own story and themes and character arcs and narrative payoff because they wanted Marinette to get a swanky new outfit and a cool fight scene. It wasn't even for her character. It's just so that they can put give her a cool power-up and sell Bug Noire dolls. It's disrespectful to Adrien's character, and it's disrespectful to Marinette's character too.

The writers failed to make Marinette interesting in terms of the conflict with Gabriel. They gave all the set-up to Adrien and didn't want to write the payoff. There are no emotional stakes in the final battle. They literally only talk about Adrien, and he's not there for that. It's bad writing. And if they didn't let Adrien be a part of the arc with his father as the villain, what hope does he have in the arcs with Lila as the antagonist, since she is a Marinette-centric villain? TA has already said that Marinette is Barbie and Adrien is just Ken. The writers have said that Gabriel is considered a hero by the end of Season 5. The show bible says that Adrien will never find out that his father is Hawkmoth.

Let's face it, they aren't coming back to this. Gabriel's era is over. Miraculous is well known for setting up conflicts and dropping them like a hot potato. If we ever deal with this, it's gonna be half an episode of Adrien forgiving Marinette because "she did it out of love." None of this will matter come Season 6. The supposed conflict being set up now will matter to Season 6 as much as the Ladynoir set up in Strikeback with the "we'll take back all the Miraculous together, you and me," mattered to Season 5, which is to say not at all.

[stardustizuku]

PART 5: The Core of Everything and Why Thomas is BAD

As I said.

The moment I realized that this show was losing its footing, was when they started to mess up Mairinette.

The moment I realized this was going to be bad show, was when they messed up the Love Square.

The moment I realized this show was going to mess up the Love Square, was the introduction of Rena.

But.

That’s not when I dropped the series. That’s not when I became disillusioned with it. Because, as I said, I could overlook that.

I don’t care, as far as this essay is concerned, if it’s a good or bad show. I don’t care if it has cringey writing. I don’t care if it’s a mess.

What I care about, is how it treats the magical girl genre. What it borrows from it, how it interprets it, and what it transforms it into as a westernization of the genre.

That’s what this is about.

The moment it fucked over the magical girl genre, was when they destroyed Chloe.

People have a variety of different opinions on Chloe. Hate her, love her, think she’s wasted potential, think she’s a villain beyond redemption.

But the mere fact, we can all think about her and have an opinion, proves she was the best thing the show ever had going for itself.

Not because she was likable, but because it spoke. It dared to say something. That something being good or bad, it’s irrelevant to this point.

It said something. For the first time, since the fucking series debuted, Miraculous Ladybug dared to say something. Make a bold statement.

I think we can all agree that the show was trying to do something with her. It build her up through many episodes as a sympathizing character.

I did have my suspicions that it was going to fumble her arc, when a lot of the time these small details of her character got introduced - just to be dismissed by the narrative a few episodes later.

She was always back to being a villain and acting in reprehensible ways, even when previous episodes attempted to give her character growth.

But, I truly wanted to believe. I kept trusting this show. Over and over again. Because it was finally, finally, saying something. And most importantly, it finally touched the core of Magical Girls.

But everything crumbled away when Mayura happened.

Marinette never gave Chloe a miraculous back again. And while she claims it was (mostly) because she’s not someone Marinette trusts, someone who reveled her identity to the world…I don’t buy it.

(Also sorta weird that Ladybug is the one who forbids it when it Chat Noir who continued to seek Chloe as Queen Bee, and it was his choice but…we know how Ladybug never treats Chat as equal at this point)

Time and time again Chloe showed she is very willing to help. Yeah, sure, she is not good at it. But it was also showed that her not being able to be good was linked to the neglect she suffered as a kid.

I mean, she couldn’t remember someone’s birthday because her own mother forgot hers. This clearly upset her. She wanted to care for Mrs Bustier’s birthday, but her own trauma was making it extremely difficult. And in an attempt to to rid herself of the guilt, she lashed out.

That’s a realistic way in which hurt people, hurt others.

But she also proved that, if given a chance, she is more than willing to resist those urges to hurt others. In Miraculer, she fights off an akuma. She wants to be Queen Bee, she wants to believe in Ladybug.

While her trauma makes her prone to lashing out to others, by having Ladybug in her life as a role model, she wants to be better. She wants to heal. She wants to be a hero.

In a GOOD series, this is a way of proving the MC that not everyone who is annoying or a missy, or has a different attitude than Hers, is a bad person. That are people who are willing to do good, if given the chance to do good.

But this is not a good series.

The reason behind this…can’t call it anything other than insulting take, is that Thomas claimed in various tweets that “bullies can never be heroes”.

This was the last straw for me.

I truly do believe I snapped and it was the moment I stopped watching the series altogether. This is spitting on the very sacred name of Magicals Girls and everything that came before it.

Never mind that Chloe is a neglected teen - this is show inspired by magical girls. Name ONE magical girl anime where the girl who’s kinda mean to the MC but WANTS to do better - is shown to actually be cruel.

None.

Princess Tutu has Rue.

Shugo Chara has Utau.

Sakura Card Captor has Mei.

Sailor Moon has - well not girl but Fisheye -.

Mermaid Melody has Sara.

Mermaid Melody PURE has Michelle.

Madoka has Homura.

Lyrical Nanoha has Fate.

Pretear has Mayune and Mawata.

Tokyo Mew Mew has Mint AND Zakuro-

THIS IS THE CORE OF THE MAGICAL GIRL GENRE

I don’t know WHO in the name of FUCK does Thomas think he is to imply he knows more about this genre than the women who created it. But he always hides under the defense of “this is a little girls show for little girls and they need to have a positive role model”

It’s not.

I have already said that Marinette herself has failed as a protagonist. Not only is she unlikable, she fails to represent anything. She fails to stick to a theme, she fails as both a role model and a flawed character.

And it speaks to me about Thomas incredible misogyny how he keeps treating this genre as nothing more than excuse to fulfill his thinly veiled fetishizes and power trips.

He has no right to be in show linked to the genre of Magical Girls, or anything related to its westernization.

Magical girls are about forgiveness. They’re about kindness and the power of perceived feminity. It’s about offering a helping hand, when the world is cruel to you. A magical girl doesn’t raise her sword first. She talks. She asks. She feels. And only after all has been exhausted, she fights.

It’s something you can’t get in media catheter to other demographics, where kindness and love is seen as weak or corny.

If a girl wants to be better, it doesn’t matter what she did before. She is allowed a second chance.

Even in Madoka, the “darkest” magical girl - she saves every girl who wanted to do better. She stopped them from becoming witches, because they didn’t want to. But they were forced to. Forced to become horrible monsters, until someone killed them. But Madoka saved them.

The fact is, even other children’s show about, borrowing or alluding to Magical Girls touch upon this theme.

Have Star and Eclipsa for example. Eclipsa is a person who’s done everything wrong in the book of Mewni magic. Even when she herself and narratives admit she has done wrong things, it still brings forth the main issue. She was hurt too. Her family was taken from her, her baby, her husband, her Royal linage, her magic, her own history got erased and rewritten. She’s shown as someone who did bad things but ultimately who meant well. In the end, she is granted by Star redemption. By giving her her child, and her wand back.

Steven Universe touches upon it too, via all the other gems that are from Homeworld, mainly Peridot and Lapis, who despite having a hard time, after getting kicked out of Homeworld, make an honest attempt to integrate into Earth

As I’ve said, She-Ra is perhaps the best integration of Magical Girls into western children’s show. The way they handle Catra is the perfect example of why I say that. She is the best example of someone who wants to do good but can’t because of the trauma she’s faced. She’s extremely sympathetic but her actions are undoubtedly wrong. Even so, Adora’s adversion is never towards Catra, but Catra’s action. Because she knows she’s a good person, but until she admits fault and asks for help - she can’t really help her. Even if she tried (and she did) Catra would simply lash out. This drives home the message “you can’t save or help does who do not want to be saved or helped” but it also reinforces to girls the idea that - no matter how late your change of heart is, that’s all you need. Admit your mistakes, try to do better, and you’ll find a place where you’re truly happy.

But, if you wanted a slightly more cynical look at it - we have the Owl House

That’s one of the few that say “some people are straight up evil, don’t try to sympathize with them or they’ll trick you”. Belos is bad news, period. No matter how human he may appear to be, he’s far more of a monster than the witches he hates. But that’s an adult man.

The teenagers around Luz’s age are just that. Teens. Amity is not a monster, Hunter is not a monster. And Boscha is annoying but not a monster either. Nor is she irredeemable. In fact, she’s portrayed in the last season as more of a lost child without Amity’s mean girl guidance. Yeah, she’s a mean girl but she cares for her friends, she misses them and cries when she reunites with them. That said, for every Boscha we had, we also had an Amity, a Mathomouel, and a Hunter. Three other mean or bully characters that were shown to be secretly good or with the need of nothing more than a push in the right direction to become good.

(Also, side note but if you’ve noticed, Magical Girl stories are extremely intertwined with queer stories. I do find it extremely odd that MLB never touches on any queer main story - aside from Marc and the subtext of Rose and Juleca. Which again, subtext. Most westernizations of magical girls make it explicit and risk cancelation over it. All more to say that the creators of MLB have a complete disregard and outright contempt to the genre they’re stealing from, if this is as far as they’d go.)

Their attitude towards Chloe, in comparison, is nothing short of petty.

Why would Chloe be beyond sympathy? Beyond empathy? Beyond an attempt to a second chance?

If she truly showed that she’s remorseful, if she truly tried to become better, why would a man like Thomas deny her that simply because “bullies can never be heroes”?

BULLSHIT. That’s a terrible terrible message to send to kids. We all want to believe the ones watching are perfect girls who get bullied and have never done anything wrong - but a lot of them aren’t. And you’re essentially telling them “if you made bad choice in the past you’ll never be a hero. You’ll never be good enough”

You’re hurting little girls. You’re hurting this genre.

THIS IS WHY CHLOE MATTERS. This is why I dropped the series when I did.

Instead of saying something important with Chloe, it doubled down and said “actually she’s a monster” even when it was shown she could be good, that she could be better.

And maybe I could understand it, if they hadn’t introduced Zoe.

She’s seen by the creators as a “watered down version” of Chloe. They realized Chloe was actually a good addition but they didn’t like how she was too much of a bully or too mean. So, instead of dealing with their flawed compelling character, they make a “nicer” version of her.

Yeah Zoe was mean but she was mean once (1) and because of Chloe’s pressure.

Which is. Bad. Writing wise.

Not because the message is bad but because it’s hypocritical. Why should one be praised for being mean because of peer pressuring but stopping - while the one doing it to impress her family, her mother, and trying to stop, be considered bad? Because one gave up the “mean” act sooner?

Again, terrible message. Healing and becoming a better person isn’t as quick as talking once to someone. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes work.

Why is someone who doesn’t struggle with being a good person be “better” than someone who tries to be good even when it doesn’t come naturally to them? Not to mention, by the point in time, Chloe was not only hurt by her mother’s neglect but Ladybug’s neglect. It makes sense she’s mean to others, she’s known nothing but neglect and abandonments from the people she looks up to.

Is it that weird she treats everyone she sees as below her as disposable, when the people SHE looks up to sees her as disposable?

Chloe deserves sympathy, if not forgiveness at least a chance to understand her.

The fact that Thomas spat on the very core of THE Magical Girl Genre. Shows what he is. An old dude, who THINKS he knows what little girls want. Who thinks a woman who was mean, is an evil creature that knows no remorse, and deserves to be hated forever. Not forgiven, or handed a second chance. But despised.

He is the type man that pollutes the genre. Who thinks he knows, but really no one wants him here.

Fisheye isn’t a a girl, but because of the LatinoAmerican dub I grew up believing he was. And his interactions with Usagi, to this day, left an impact on me bigger than you can imagine. Fisheye was someone who constantly made fun of Usagi, who was a villain in every sense of the word. They kept constantly trying to steal Mamoru from Usagi and made fun of her on the way out.

But Usagi, when she say how down and heartbroken FishEye was - she cheered them up. She invited them to her house. Shared with them her dream. In the middle of poor Fisheye having an existencial crisis over being nothing more than a creature without dreams, Usagi offered a helping hand and comforted them.

Because Usagi cannot leave someone crying alone. She recognizes that Fisheye is a bit mean, but just like Rei, secretly cares for others. In the end, Fisheye sacrifices themselves to save Usagi. They cry when Usagi’s dreams get shattered, horrified but finally understanding why dreams are important.

It sounds silly, but it changed my brain chemistry. Something inside me recognized at my 12 years old that you have to be kind. Because you never know what the other person is going through, because you never know the impact your kindness can have on others.

And this is why I love Magical Girls so much, why I love Sailor Moon so much.

Yet.

What this show did to the genre I love, it’s…it’s plain unforgivable.

ML is bad. For a number of reasons. But it fails to be what it promised to me. It failed me on the first day. And I still stuck with it. Because a lot of western series failed me on their initial take of a Magical Girl.

Star Vs wasn’t best. Steven Universe didn’t borrow enough. She-Ra’s transformation left much to be desired.

But they all gave me something. And what’s most important, it held its core belief.

“Women can help one another. And kindness isn’t weakness”

Miraculous isn’t that.

It disappointed and hurt me, because it believes the exact opposite. Marinette only cares about Adrien, and cares little for other women. She is antagonistic for any girl who shows interest in him.

In her eyes, kindness isn’t a priority. Her friends and teammates are all people she chose, not those who she had to learn to love and fight alongside with.

If She-Ra’s last season is the culmination of everything a Magical Girl should be in the west. Miraculous is the exact opposite.

It doesn’t only fail as a show. It doesn’t only fail as a Magical Girl show. It borrowed every last thing it had from the genre.

And once it was popular, it spat on it.

Miraculous ladybug hates magical girls. And honestly,

I hate it too.

PREV << MASTERLIST >> NEXT

[gale-gentlepenguin]

What is your opinion on the comments from the writers about the season 5 finale and the finale itself?

So I should say that the only comments I’ve seen (from the translation ) and this ( post )

My opinion on the writers and their commentary regarding the finale.

I do understand why they did the things they did.

Limited resources and wanting to utilize what they had.

I totally agree with their use of Piano Lucky Charm.

I think the fight the physical fight with Monarch and Bug Noire is phenomenal.

I can tell a Lot of effort went into planning this season out.

And as a Writer I can respect the references, nods, foreshadowing and jokes that were put in.

Fang using Kung fu is a hilarious image and it’s my favorite shot outside of monarch having a piano dropped on him.

People can say they like the ending, and if they do, awesome. I’m glad that you can enjoy this ending that I don’t.

So let’s have that put at the forefront

That is everything positive I have to say regarding the commentary and I will be going into detail on my ‘Problems’ below. And yes I will be getting angry.

(You have been warned)

I absolutely LOATHE their explanation on how they justify their ending.

Everything about it makes them sound pretentious and arrogant. They sound like they think they are being so clever with an ending when the ending is actually a fucking punch to the face of ANYONE that cared about having a resolution to this arc.

If the writers were so keen on having us CARE for Gabriel’s little arc. Why not take that Kwami’s choice special and replace it with a two episode arc of Gabriel, Emilie and co getting the miraculous? They can’t say budget because they could use flashbacks or the re-enactment from Representation.

And my goodness, the mental gymnastics it takes to say “Gabriel put down his other rings which means he lost” NO IT DOESNT. He is making his wish, he won. Why the heck would he need them after?!

“His wish is vague, so we don’t know what he wished for.” I DONT CARE IF HE WISHED FOR FREE ICE CREAM FOR EVERYONE ON EARTH! HE WON BY EVERY METRIC! It’s unsatisfying, it’s gross, and it feels all kinds of wrong to the point that my soul as a writer feels personally insulted.

The arrogant pretentious Pricks don’t even realize they left Ladybug in the losing position once again! She’s going to have to suffer the consequences of the wish. Not the person who died VINDICATED.

In the words of Brooke from one piece

“Death is never an apology.”

But she got the miraculous back? Yea, AFTER the villain got what he wanted. Adrien never finds out about any of this, Marinette is left gaslighting and hiding things from him, just like usual but now MORE people are keeping things from him.

All of this writing just end up with a cool final battle scene and then take a metaphorical dump all over it because their peak in character development is outfit changes.

The ending isn’t unsatisfying because it’s meant to be. It’s unsatisfying because it made 5 seasons of watching ML pointless.

And I didn’t think I could hate the finale more than I do. BUT THE COMMENTARY somehow made it Worse!? I don’t know how the f*** they did it.

But knowing their intent and knowing this ending was always intended makes VOLTRON’s ending SEEM serviceable. And yes I know how bad that sounds and I FUCKING MEAN IT.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Bee Villain Audrey would be fun, especially given her previous interest in the temple. I agree she'd not be second fiddle, anytime Audrey lets others make decisions its cos of one of two reasons:

1: Its so unimportant that a plebian is tending to it. IE, she told them to. 2: She's indifferent enough to the situation that she doesn't care to handle it herself, IE most stuff she tells Andre to do.

Basically, yeah she's not gonna be second stringer, co conspirator at minimum.

Also, having a super powerful magical artifact, right after Gabriel and Ladybug humiliated her and Hawk Moth Akumatized her and- Wait a second! Gabriel was using Miraculous BS before, oh it is on! XD

Low key I have actually toyed with AUs built on similar premises and I think she'd be a very self motivated villain. Like maybe she wants a wish (If she knows about it) but she may just want other Miraculous, or to fuck over her rivals, or go on rampages. The line between Audrey & Style Queen is rather thin after all.

Also given the "Order & Subjugation" angle and how many write Miraculous powers as evolving or shifting based on the user. I could see Audrey's power being less Venom and more like, the power to command and control others perhaps?

Ultimately I'd say it comes down to how much one wants to do with her character. How much does she know, how much can she figure out, what does she even want out of life, ETC.

I know Audrey tends to get written off as just cruel and otherwise brainless. But I confess I always find that disappointing; there's nothing making Gabriel more inherently suited for supervillainy or competence than Audrey if you get my meaning?

As an amusing aside, her going out with a Miraculous power could lead to a very similar situation to Queen Wasp. Not identical, but in the sense that some Gabriel related event is disrupted by a Bee User. The heroes show up, Gabriel slinks away to try and Akumatize her, ETC.

Though in this case, maybe cos Audrey can re-use her powers, its instead him trying to AKumatize Ladybug or Chat as the fight turns against them?

(Oooh it could be Nathalie actually, like Gabriel is literally Veom-ed?)

But this gives a sense of how powerful a Akumatized Miraculous Holder would be (Even if it fails to take over Audrey or one of the heroes, the effort gives a sense of power), along with Ladybug losing the Bee, a signal to Gabriel not to quit. Or allow Nathalie to step up and take the role maybe?

Also, if/when Audrey is beaten (If she's a one episode wonder over a recurring problem) One could have Chloe snag Pollen up in the chaos (She was helping perhaps even jumped on her mothers back and grabbed the comb during the fight?) So now she's Queen Been, but no one knows she has it?

Sorry, rambling.

Honestly the only reason I haven't written Audrey as a villain is because she often has no genuine power over the rest of the cast.

Like.

The worst she could do herself is tank Marinette's career, but even then in a universe where Gabriel favors Marinette and her talents he could counteract Audrey's influence

Her influence over Chloé is limited and dependent on other factors. Is Chloé still vying for her attention? Is Chloé still a child or a legal adult? Does Chloé have a support network or not?

A lot of Audrey's other power would be dependent on Andre and what he's doing. Is he still willing to do things for her or has he kicked her to the curb yet? Even if he /is/ still under her spell, is this an AU where he'd break any rules for her? Or, though he is a man who wishes to grant his wife's every whim, does he put his foot down on things that would cause major problems?

But yeah in most of my AUs, Audrey has no genuine power over any of the rest of the cast. So she often is more of an annoyance or a short-term problem rather than a major player.

If I give her some kind of power though.....

[anjuschiffer]

Even with Time Traveling, the Fates Will Still Laugh at Your Face

Do I have WIPs to work on? Yes. Did I see Coffee was hosting another Hanahaki Hour and decide to write for it? Absolutely. Do I know self control? No I do not, so here is Day 1 for Hanahaki Hours 2024: "We don't all have happy endings"/Poppy/Revival as requested by @the-coffee-fandom

Enjoy :D

-

Thank you Veggie and Coffee for beat-ing this fic!

Tags: @toodaloo-kangaroo @vixen-uchiha

AO3

To think he would actually find his younger self the minute he stepped out of Fluff’s portal.

Before he could even explain his presence, Robin started to attack him, about to call Batman for backup only to end up muttering a “Second chance”. 

He held in a smirk as he heard Robin yell a “what the fuck” when he realized Jason was now in behind him instead of getting elbowed in the groin.

“Robin.” Jason said sternly, tipped off at the fact that he just addressed his younger self.

When Robin held his guard up, Jason couldn't help but be both pleased and hurt. Pleased because that means Robin didn’t let his guard down around anyone, even those who knew Robin. Hurt because, damn. Did he really look unfriendly in a fucking rabbit themed outfit? 

Well, not completely rabbit themed. The slightly plunging v neck of a sweater didn’t exactly sell rabbit theme. “Listen, I’m not going to hurt you. I just…I want to chat.”

Oh god, did he really say that right now?

“You say you’re not going to hurt me, but how can I trust you?” Robin asked, a batarang pointed towards him. “I don’t know you.”

“Because I’m you. From the future.”

“You could be lying for all I know.” 

“Then ask me something only you would know.”

“How about you tell me something only I would know then. It should be easy for you if you’re from the so-called future.” Robin countered, Jason noticing a smirk threatening to form.

Oh, was that how it was going to be?

“Remember that gala you went with Bruce last month in Paris because he didn’t want you patrolling Gotham without him?”

“Yeah? What about it?” Robin wasn’t going to like this.  

“You met a girl over there. What was her name again? Wasn’t it Marinette or something like that?” Jason held in a snort as he saw his younger self stiffen at the sound of Marinette’s name, noticing how his cheeks and the tips of his ears burnt pink.

Damn. Was he this obvious about his crush on her? No wonder Bruce and Alfred liked teasing him about her. Oh. Is that why Dick kept calling him Rosy Cheeks at one point?

“Wh-what about her?”

“Oh nothing…just that you have a crush-”

“She’s just a friend!” Robin shrieked out, throwing the batarang towards Jason who dodged it with ease. “A very good friend at that!”

“Yeah,” Jason found himself agreeing, smiling at the thought. “Mari really is a good friend of ours, isn’t she?”

Robin blinked a few times to make sure he was indeed seeing a soft smile on the man who said was his future self. It looked just like the type of smile Bruce would have whenever he remembered a nice memory or after spending a full day at an amusement park with him. 

Robin watched as the man sat down on the roof, patting the place next to him. Robin sat next to him, only then really realizing how big his future self was. He was taller than Bruce and Bruce was tall. Like, tall tall. But what really took the cake was how muscular he looked. He bet his future self could easily throw criminals around like sacks of rice!

“So you really are an older version of me from the future, huh.” Robin asked his older self.

But because he was so close to him, his older self’s choice in clothing caught his attention.

Robin looked at his older self from top to bottom. “What’s with the outfit choice? A shirt like your- wait. It’s not a jacket? I thought it was a jacket.” Robin found himself trying to open up his older self’s ‘jacket,” only then realizing it was a sweater with a plunging v neckline. “Is this an actual part of our vigilante outfit? A plunging v neck? Seriously?” He asked in disgust only to wrinkle up his nose. “Holy shit, did Dick’s Discowling outfit  influence us? Oh god, it did, didn’t it?”

“Oh God no squirt.” Jason replied, revolted by Robin’s conclusion. “This outfit is just…temporary. My usual outfit looks way better than this one. And for your information, we’re waaay cooler than Dick.” Jason answered with a smile, Robin’s eyes lighting up upon hearing this. “But you should cut down on the cursing. Pretty sure Bruce already warned you about it, am I right?” Robin grumbled at those words, Jason hearing a ‘so does Alfred’ somewhere in those grumbles. 

Damn. 

He really was an unfiltered child, wasn’t he? Then again, this was around the same time he was still getting used to living with Bruce and being Robin. Getting used to being just that- a kid. 

“So, I know you can’t talk too much about the future because of paradoxes and stuff but-“ Jason watched as his younger self thought about his next words. He looked around as if to make sure no one was listening over them. Or maybe he was hesitating due to the matter of his next sentence. “Are we okay? Are we, you know, happy? What about everyone else?”

“I changed my mind. I was still fucked up as-“

“Why are you allowed to curse and I’m not? You’re practically me! Scratch that, you are me!”

Should he let his younger self know he’s technically not this timeline’s Jason? Should he tell him that he was the original Jason and that his younger self is a completely different Jason from a different point in time?

Jason internally sighed.

What kind of question was he asking himself?

“Not exactly.” Jason ended up answering, looking out towards the city skyline, wondering where Bruce was at the moment. Would he recognize him like this? “And to answer your question: we don’t all have happy endings.”

He watched his younger self become serious and if he paid attention, he could see the way his lower lip quivered a bit before calming down. 

“Is that why you’re here? Are you here to warn me about something bad that’s going to happen later on in the future?”

“Nope.” Jason threw his hands in the air. “ You said it yourself. It would create a time paradox if I did.”

“You talking to me-  shouldn't that have already made one?”

“Nope.”

“How can you be so sure? There are many theories that suggest that even talking with an alternate version of yourself can create paradoxes. Sure, talking might not seem like much, but some scientists agree that even walking past your past self will alternate a future ever- 

Oh, that’s how you know…this isn’t your first time, is it?” Robin gasped, surprising Jason at how fast he managed to piece things together. 

He was a perceptive little shit, wasn’t he? “We can time travel? How many times did we time travel? Did WE invent the tech to do so? Can we do it freely or is there like, a limit to-”

“Wayne Enterprises has yet to make a tool that would allow us to time travel.” Jason cut Robin off. “That being said, there are people who can time travel at free will.” 

Some are even villains he wanted to add but decided to keep it to himself. 

“And we’re one of them?”

“Villains? No. Able to time travel freely? Not exactly by choice.”

“Is it related to our vigilante work?”

“Nope.”

“No?” Robin frowned, furrowing his brows as he thought. “So, personal?”

“And you’ll never guess why.” Jason internally smirked as he watched Robin think of an answer.

“For fun?”

“Because of a girl.” Jason laughed as his younger self wrinkled up his nose and started to gag. 

“Eww, a girl? We time traveled because of a girl?”

“Remember how I said not everyone has a happy ending? I was traveling to stop something from happening to her…”

“Oh…then she must be someone very important to us then.” Robin concluded, Jason watching as Robin stared off into the distance. “How bad is it? Is she dying? 

Is it our fault?” Oh all the things Robin had to say, did he have to say something that hit too close to the truth? “It is, isn’t it?”

“No.” Jason managed to croak out, feeling a lump form in his throat before it went away. He rubbed his eyes a bit to get rid of the stinging in his eyes. “It wasn’t our fault. It wasn’t her fault either. But it was destined to happen anyways.”

“Was that the case in every timeline you went to?”

“They all ended up that way.” 

“So there’s nothing we can do to help her?”

“Unfortunately, no.”

“I see.” The two sat there in silence until what sounded like a toaster timer rang, Robin watching as his older self took out a pocket watch and sighed. 

“Seems like my time is up.” Jason said as he tried to get, feeling a tug on his wrist.

“What else can you tell me about the future?” Robin asked, but Jason knew all too well that look. 

Don’t go.

“I can’t say much else lad, but I’ll just tell you one more thing.” He ruffled Robin’s hair. “Don’t act so tough, okay? Bruce, Alfred and Dick are there for a reason. Say what’s on your mind, okay?” 

Robin watched as Jason brushed himself off and opened a portal. “And that goes for Mari too, okay?”

Jason waited for Robin’s response, feeling the portal wane behind him. Robin lowered his gaze.

“Alright.” Robin promised, lifting his head back up. “I’ll try to be more honest with her too.”

“And don’t go on solo missions on your own, alright. Because, trust me, getting revived doesn’t look as easy as in video games, okay?”

“Revived? What does- hey! What- wait!” Robin’s voice stopped Jason from going further into the portal. “Why did you really come here?”

Jason looked at his younger self one last time.

Should he tell him the truth? 

It’s not like he will see him again.

“I just wanted to see if Bruce was right about me being a little piece of shit.” Jason said with a grin, not waiting for Robin’s response.

Stepping out of the portal, Jason’s foot made contact with his living room floor. 

“Counter clockwise.” Jason muttered, but the minute the transformation dropped, he was overcomed by a migraine, Jason having to walk to the nearest chair only to collapse to end up on the floor. 

He cradled his head as the migraine worsened, Jason pushing himself off the floor, shutting his eyes to stop the room from spinning around him. 

Once the symptoms cooled down, he was hit by another and this time, it wasn’t from the side effects of time traveling.

This time, it was from his fucking chronic illness.

Immediately, Jason felt his throat swelling up and locked itself, Jason quickly picking himself up and rushing himself to the nearest trash bin. He sat himself beside it, hacking whatever was clogging his throat. 

Four minutes passed and nothing, Jason knowing he had to get this out fast, the edges of his vision blurring. He watched as tiny orbs started to appear in his vision, which was not a good sign.

He made a fist and placed it between his ribcage and navel, making sure his thumb was outside his fist. With his other hand, he jabbed his fist into his upper abdominal area, attempting to dislodge whatever was suffocating him. 

He did this several times until he felt something loosen up, feeling bile rise up his throat. Jason listened as a heavy load hit the bottom of the can with a thud, Jason coughing up saliva as his vision started to clear up, only then seeing the culprit of his almost second death.

Bloody poppy petals. 

Jason wiped off the saliva that dripped from the corner of his mouth, heading to the bathroom to rinse out the bile taste from his mouth.

As he brushed his teeth, a petal accompanied the foamed up toothpaste, Jason staring at the blasted thing. He walked away from the bathroom, deciding it was just best to sleep it off. 

Yeah, this should all be behind him by tonight.

That’s when his phone went off.

“Jason! I’ve been trying to-”

“If this is about the wedding. I’m not go-”

“You can’t just not come to my wedding Jason! You’re my best friend! I can’t -”

“Mari.” Jason stopped her, feeling something start to form in his throat. Oh. It was happening again. “I…I can’t go. I know what this wedding means to you, but I can’t-”

“If this is about having to watch over Gotham again-“ he heard her let out a heavy sigh. “-you can’t keep making excuses to not-”

“Marinette. I don’t think you understand. It’s not that I can’t make it because of my job as a vigilante but be-” Jason let out a cough only for it to get worse when he tried to suppress it. 

“Jason? Hey, are you alright? Jason? Jason? Oh god. Jason, are you-”

Jason hung up and focused on the situation on hand, coughing as he searched his room for an all familiar red container. 

Jason continued to cough as his eyes finally landed on a white cross logo and quickly flung the container open and yanked out a fluorescent white vial. He quickly attached it to a needle and stabbed himself with it, feeling the swelling of his throat subside.

He closed his eyes as he felt his body slowly return to its regular rhythm. He dared to open them when he was no longer heaving for air. 

“Jason, listen to me. This is the last serum we were able to successfully make. Last one. And once you use this one…your body will get used to it just as quickly as its previous versions…

Jason, we can’t keep making stronger dosages…they’re going to kill you just as fast as your illness already is.

Jason…you’re suffering far too much for something that can easily be removed with-”

Leslie’s words rang in his mind as dragged himself into bed, the adrenaline in his system starting to wear off, his body catching up on the soreness his vomiting had left behind. He groaned with each breath he took, his diaphragm reminding him the severity of it all. 

Not like it was anything new.

If he had been able to survive all these symptoms for the past decade, what’s another one? Oh right…he doesn’t have that time…

His condition had turned for the worse ever since he started wielding Miraculi to help Mari take down Hawkmoth….

He was in his final stages…

Damn…he’s only in his late twenties…

“Jason.” Fluff spoke up, Sass right next to her. “How are you feeling? Should we get Marinette to come and heal-”

“We promised to keep this a secret Fluff.” Sass reminded her, flying up to Jason, placing a paw on his forehead before quickly retracting it. He turned to Fluff with a worried face. “His life force is fading Fluff. Jason, we need to let Marinette-”

“No.” Jason retorted. “She’s busy…making sure everything is perfect…for the wedding…”

“Jason, we can’t let you di-”

“I just need to sleep it off…all that time traveling…made me tired…” Jason let out a weak laugh. 

All that sneaking around and bribing the Kwami’s…all that time traveling and for what? 

He couldn’t get the ending he wanted. 

No matter what decision he made on his end or what event he changed to get his past self to reconnect with Marinette…

It was all for not…

It didn’t help to find out that it was his stubbornness as a kid that caused him to develop a rare condition where one would spit out filaments of blood in the shape of flower petals. 

And not just in one timeline, oh no…in every. single. one…

A condition with no treatment besides a risky surgery to remove blood vessels that grew over the heart and greatly resemble plant roots. A surgery where the most common side effect was memory lost. More specifically the loss of memories of the person you loved most…

“-not good Sass. We need to get Marinette, and now!”

“Jason…hang on just a bit longer, okay? We’re going to get Mari, okay?”

“Hmm,” was all Jason was able to say as he felt the soreness in his body become tiredness, feeling his eyelids grow heavy. Maybe…maybe he should just rest his eyes for a bit…

Yeah… for just a bit…

Maybe he wouldn’t feel this tired if he had just listened to the Kwami in the first place. They had already warned him that it was impossible to change the fates already written in the stars…

That he wasn’t destined to be with Marinette…

And now he knew he didn’t…

He saw the fate that awaited her in all the timelines where he thought he succeeded in being with her: death.

Death caused a tragic accident, a power struggle over the Miraculous or from the same illness that was killing him now…

Maybe that’s why he was okay with his fate now.

He couldn’t bear to think of causing Marinette any harm when all she had ever been to him was kind.

Feeling himself drift further into slumber, Jason thought of his younger self, glad to be able to see his younger self before returning home.

At least he was able to take one more thing off his bucket list before he had to return Fluff and Sass back…

Fluff…Sass… he forgot to thank them for going with his selfish decisions…

He should’ve apologized for taking advantage of their own love for Marinette.

Marinette…

He found himself smiling as he remembered what she looked like in her wedding dress she picked out just a few weeks ago.

At least she will be happy after he’s gone.

Jason!

Oh. Someone was calling him. 

Jason! 

Jason tried to open his eyes, but his tiredness wouldn’t let him. They’ll probably stick around. Or if it’s Dick, he usually would. 

He’ll just see him in the morning.

With that, Jason let his mind go quiet, the beating of his heart slowly drifting into the silence that succumbed to him.

-

“Jason!” Marinette screamed, stepping out of Kaalki’s portal, rushing to Jason’s pale body. “Jason, wake up!” 

One minute she was panicking over Jason’s sudden coughing followed by him hanging up. The next, Fluff and Sass flew right up to her, holding in tears as they gave her the news of Jason’s condition.

He was dying.

She quickly ordered Kaalki to open a portal, needing to see it for herself.

She saw him just a few weeks ago.

He was fine! He was up and about, healthy as a horse!

He helped her choose her dress, the bridesmaid’s dresses, his suit for the wedding! He was standing on his two feet perfectly fine…why, how was he on the verge of death?

Marinette didn’t expect to see him passed out on his bed, his face as pale as a ghost. 

“Jason?” She had called out and when she didn’t get a response, didn’t see the rising and sinking of his chest, she became worried.

It wasn’t until she got closer to him and tried to wake him up that she knew he was leaving her. His soul was fading fast.

“Jason!” She yelled, trying to shake him awake, trying to ignore the way he felt cold to the touch. “Jason, you need…you need to wake up!”

She decided to look for a pulse. “Jason, don’t go! I still need you!” She found nothing. 

Who was going to remind her to take a breather? Who was going to be there at 3 am, helping her calm down after a nightmare from her heroine days? Who was going to tell her that everything was going to be alright? “Jason.”

He was gone.

Her best friend…

Marinette let out a wail, collapsing to her knees as she began to cry her heart out.

He promised to be there! He said he’d be there! He pro-

Marinette began to cough, wondering if maybe her throat was sore from all the crying, irritated from all the scream. It wasn’t until she realized that this coughing felt off. 

Something was stuck in her throat.

Marinette continued to cough until she decided to take matters into her own hands. 

Reaching for a trash bin nearby, she forced herself to gag, when she felt bile rise to her mouth, disgusted by its sour taste. 

She let herself catch her breath and when she did, she was embarrassed at knowing she was choking on her own spit. Really? Spit? Wait…what was that swimming in her saliva?

Curious, Marinette reached for it, watching as her saliva dripped off of it as she brought it closer to herself. Without a doubt, Marinette knew what it was…but how was it possible?

How did she cough up a poppy petal? 

And…what did it mean?

-

Fluff and Sass looked at the poppy petal in horror, looking at each other, wondering what they should do.

At who they should be angry at.

Because this wasn’t fair. 

This wasn’t supposed to happen. 

Not in this timeline.

One of them had to be happy. Just one.

For Kwami’s sake, they lived through all of the other timelines, watching as their favorite humans died for the sake of the other’s happiness! Jason sacrificed his own for Mari’s just moments ago!

So why her? Why does Marinette have to suffer too?

Wasn’t taking Jason enough? 

But they knew nothing could be changed.

If it was the will of the Fates, then so be it…

If all they could do was just support her, then so be it. 

They’ll make sure to protect and love Mari as much as Jason did. 

It was all they could do to honor his death… even if it was done in vain.

[miracleandplagueau]

So, here's a thing about Marinette.

She is a kind, rather cultured person, agrees to a lot of things, but also knows when to stand her ground and say no. The averagest of average protagonist models you can write with the exception of her obsessive personality trait. About Derision later, but she might possibly be one of the blandest characters I've seen in popular media

While watching Demon Slayer's finale yesterday, I realized something. Marinette is very much like Tanjiro. She can be both kind and badass when needed, be humble and be confident whenever the writers need her to be. Marinette is like Tanjiro -- written to be liked. She wasn't written to be unique or stand out from the crowd nor was she ever supposed to make a breakthrough in how to write a compelling protagonist to root for. She is a vessel. An empty vessel to watch in the background, because once you start analyzing her, it's over for your sanity

But why is she so hated then... She's so kind, so extremely helpful. A person everyone can get along with (famous people count too I suppose), but she also has her own frustrations like deal with brats who apparently targetted her as their victim for no apparent reason!! She has struggl-- It's nothing new. Look at it a little closer, go in depth and tell me that she has a consistent personality. She's more of a big pile of clay that the writers will model and shape according to their mood and how they want a certain storyline to end. Even Chat Noir has more consistent personality than her despite being neglected by both his own father and the writers. I guess more isn't always the merrier.

Is it actually hard to give YOUR PROTAGONIST a DAMN CONFLICT?! HER ONLY CONFLICT IS WHETHER SAYING "HI" TO ADRIEN WILL RUIN THEIR FUTURE TOGETHER. GIVE HER FLAWS GIVE HER CONSEQUENCES MAKE HER LEARN THE LESSON THE HARD WAY

Actually, I take it back. There is one conflict. Well, "conflict" or rather a turning moment for her is when she loses all miraculouses, which is followed by a nasty panic attack. That's it. That's all I could think of from the top of my head.

The only thing that really makes her stand out is her obssessive nature towards Adrien and we got some insight on why in the season 5 episode Derision and you know what I have to say about that? Fucking BULLSHIT. In a very short summary, Marinette crushed on Kim, but he humiliated her whilst working with Chloe. After that event, she decided she will only confess to someone when she knows them through and through. Putting aside the fact that we only then found out that Marinette had a friend that wasn't Alya, It's actually a total asspull in terms of Kim's behavior. Why would Marinette be friendly to Kim in Dark Cupid when he did something like THAT to her? Why is he potrayed as a funny, a little misguided himbo in the friend group - did nobody actually know about what's happened? I mean obviously they had to so why is everyone pretending like everything is fine? Why is SHE pretending everything is fine? Did she forget?! The answer is no, because Derision was not planned from the beginning. Thomas heard that his beloved protagonist isn't liked and went back to the drawing board to cook up some fake depth to her. Despite what I said, I'd actually love to see an episode like that, maybe Chloe IS the bitch we're lead to believe she is and I could've accepted it as a valid explanation to both Marinette behavior and her cruel, unchanging nature....

IF IT WAS IN SEASON ONE OR TWO

Putting a lore piece like that in the final season of the story is actually fucking ridiculous. Do you really expect me to care NOW?! When we're like 15 episodes from the FINALE OF THE SHOW? Na-ah, absolutely fucking not

Everytime I see a post praising Derision for how well written it is my stomach does a fucking cartwheel this is not an exaggeration

Marinette is like Zoe except Marinette is actually an asshole sometimes. It would be good If she was! I want to see an asshole protagonist where I'll have to see them change before I start rooting for them, but Marinette is neither changing, evolving or facing consequences. Using a miraculous for her personal gain and lashing out as Ladybug on Lila? it was a good fucking moment. I found it uncomfortable and embarassing to watch AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. IT HAD LONG LASTING CONSEQUENCES in form of Lila being a menance in return. Then again, I can't exactly praise Lila because she's equally as stupid- sorry, everyone's brains and common sense seem to evaporate when they're in Lila's closest proximity, but that's where they're similar. Everyone seems to lose their awareness when Marinette does her puppy eyes to break into a house too.

She is genuinely getting harder to watch and don't even get me started on season 5 because I've seen the leaks alright

[teawinx]

I'm going to have a lot of hate for this but it had to be said and it was said

me:

Neither of them are the perfect protagonists and instead of blaming each of them they should realize who is responsible for the lack of communication and teachings in their relationship

I agree

This is now an anti-Fu page Mans has ruined Hawaiian shirts for everyone forever

(Warning, long post)

Jokes aside, it's easy to pin the blame on one or more characters for the shortcomings of a show, but it's really all down to the writing.

I've joked that Fu could be removed and very little would change, but it's true. All the exposition and potions could be handled by the Kwamis, and there's no real reason why LB and CN couldn't just summon the other Miraculous because they're the sacred duo.

To me, Fu just feels like they desperately wanted to include a "wise old mentor" character without properly considering the choice. It's just derivative of other media (Harry Porker, Star Wars, LOTR, TMNT, Kung Fu Panda etc), shoving Fu in because you HAVE to have a mentor character right?

And it sucks because I think Fu's character does help the story in a small way. I like that the heroes aren't special chosen ones. Anyone could wear the earrings or the ring, it all depends on what kind of person they are. The kwamis didn't choose their holders. (Piss off, Kwami's Choice) So in that regard, I think Fu works. But then, besides Feast, they proceeded to do nothing with him and then didn't have the balls to kill him off.

At the end of the day, Fu is still the worst. He picks two literal children to do his bidding after doing nothing for over 100 years, while having access to all the other Miraculous, which is includes the TIME TRAVEL Miraculous. Doesn't do any background checks on these two children, so doesn't know if they'd be able to drop what they're doing at any time and go save Paris. Proceeds to only "train" one of the two heroes, and treats meeting him like a privilege they have to earn. I think they "earned" the right to meet him the moment he picked them to fix his mistakes. Barely properly trains Marinette (or it's all off-screen) and just ignores Adrien. Then when his own identity is at risk, he confiscates the Miraculous and proceeds to run away, leaving Paris at risk with 0 defenders. But at the end of the day, he's meant to be viewed as a wise martyr who just made a couple silly mistakes, and can now go live a carefree life despite doing fuck all to make amends for what he's done.

If you want a story about a disgraced mentor who's fucked up bad but then makes amends and grows from it AND is super entertaining? Just watch Rise Of The TMNT's Splinter. He's fantastic.

Fu rant aside, the true villain is of course the writing

In the hands of a good writer, Marinette and Adrien could be gold standard protagonists, I can feel it in my bones. But the show's... interesting (derogation) writing choices prevent them from living up to their true potential.

If you have the time, I recommend everyone take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSszhlZVoU

How to alienate your audience. It's a very good video and super helpful for learning about writing. The short version is: A good writer presents a character without telling you how to feel about them. If you treat your audience like morons, lecturing them about how to feel about a character, you've failed as a writer.

And that's one of ML's biggest failings. It doesn't want you to have a nuanced viewing experience. It's either "Character X is good" or "Character Y is bad". Despite Fu being the fucking worst, the show bends over backwards to go "No no he's a amazing person. His not death is really tragic, be sad about it damnit!" Ladybug and Chat Noir can't be upset at Fu for his failings. Adrien can't get angry at him for neglecting him (but can then get mad at Ladybug for the same thing despite her NOT neglecting him. Fuck you, Kuro Neko) Marinette can't be upset at Fu for basically hijacking her life by choosing her to be Ladybug and then the Guardian The only character who's been angry at Fu is Su Han, but he's then "well actually"-ed into letting the issue go.

Fu gets to become a "tragic" character who just wants to be with his one true love. Ok, then use Time Travel to fix your mistake. Or unify the Ladybug and Black Cat to fix your mistake. Or use a power pulled outta the Rooster's ass to fix your mistake. And he doesn't have the excuse of "The Guardian can't use the Miraculous" because Ladybug and Jade Turtle are right there. I'm not gonna feel sympathetic for the guy who sat around, did nothing, ran away and then made Marinette do all the work for him. Am I talking about Fu or Adrien? We may never know.

Rant done.

[i-like-anything-water]

Had a bit of a sorta funny fantasy AU for Chloenette: Essentially, Chloe, a Paladin looking to make a name for herself, hears about a legend of a chosen heroine destined to save the world from a swarm of dark insects, and sets out to make it come true... while dragging along a young Priestess named Marinette to chronicle her journey to greatness, with Marinette just going along with it because her conscience won't let her abandon someone who is clearly in over their heads. Also, neither of them are aware that Marinette is the chosen heroine. Also, this: Chloe: No one tells me what to do! Marinette: (Grabs Chloe's hand) Chloe: One person tells me what to do! (Blushes)

Chloe huffed as she read the very old signboard again. A chosen one that wasn't her? Preposterous! Perhaps she hasn't made her debut quite known yet. Surely, anyone with two functioning eyes could see her set of skills and praise worthy intellect.

If they haven't, she'll just stuff it in their eyes.

Determined and carrying spite that could rival her collection of weapons, she set out on her journey to save the kingdom from evil bugs. Bugs, strange and was maybe made by a lunatic who had too much to drink, were the enemy. Very well, she'll squash every last one.

"You there!" Of course, what good is saving the entire kingdom if it is not written by someone that wasn't her? Credibility was needed. "Follow me. I will pay you handsomely as long as you don't have any annoying questions."

"Asking someone to follow them without sparing any other details aside from no questioning?" The Priestess answered back, a brow raised. Chloe huffed as she crossed her arms, "What did I say about no questions?"

"That wasn't an annoying one."

"Yes, it was!"

"The one who asked mere moments was certainly annoying though, unfortunately," the woman smirked. Chloe scoffed, rolling her eyes. "Fine. If you don't want to take on my offer, I shall find a better companion. Someone..." blue eyes scanned her up and down, "competent enough."

This brat.

"The Gods surely have it after me for sending me these lunatics," she mumbled. Chloe was about to retort when she help up a hand, "I will accept your offer. Only if I have conditions as well."

"That wasn't in the deal."

"I never agreed to it in the first place, I'm only agreeing with changes."

"Ugh, fine. What do you want?"

"Tell me everything. I need to know what I'm going to go through," Chloe made a noise, but nodded nonetheless, "and expenses will be on you should we travel very far."

A scoff again, "Deal. Now shall we get going? I don't want to waste precious sunlight bickering with nonsense."

The woman sighed as she flicked her wrist and suddenly there was a bag in her hand. She already felt the beginning of a headache and they haven't even started yet. Unfortunately, she needed the money.

They were just across town when she spoke again, "So, what use do you require of me?"

"I want you to write down whatever happens in this journey and swore you spoke the truth and nothing but the truth." Oh. That seemed quite simple. She guessed this was a form of promotion to climb the ranks.

"Okay. Where are we off to?"

"To the third kingdom we pass. I am searching for a foe I wish to destroy before it kills us all."

She halted. "I'M SORRY?!"

Chloe sighed. This is why she hated questions, "There's a prophecy, there's a hero, prophecy didn't say who, I'm gonna be the hero, I save us from evil insects, you write everything, I pay, we part ways as strangers. There."

Dear heavens, she's accompanying an idiot! "Are you crazy? The prophecy did not say who the hero is and you're going to take the role yourself?"

"Yup."

Fuck. "And evil insects? You must be out of your mind."

Chloe smirked, "And so are you by extension, blueberry."

The woman glared, "My name is Marinette, you brat. And I wasn't aware the mission cost both my sanity and my life."

"And this, class, is why you ask about everything before you agree to a random Paladin's offer," the blonde replied sarcastically.

Marinette sighed, "I should have told my loved ones I loved them and goodbye."

"Stop being dramatic. We'll be fine."

"I can't and I will not."

Chloe sighed. They're both going to lose their sanity at the end of this.

Not accurately the ask....woops. This was a fun au though, can definitely see the 'but there was only one bed' and 'we will cuddle menacingly as to save warmth' scenes in this xD

[kasienda]

@coffeebanana challenged me to find three words in my unpublished writing! I was not successful! Haha! I found softly instead of soft, but I'm counting it. And I found crack in an outline and in published chapters, but nothing unpublished, so... And I couldn't find shiver at all. Haha! Which is such a good word! So now, it's a mission to use shiver over the next week or so! But in the meantime, here's some snippets using the reserve words!

Softly from a future chapter of Aftermath.

Her hands covered her mouth. “You’re Chat Noir.” “Yeah, I believe we covered that.”  “But… you helped Ladybug put away your own father. You fought him. I’m so sorry! I never meant to make you choose between your family and the miraculous.” “He was wrong. And he was trying to kill you.”  “That early time was so much deeper than I thought, we all thought you were mourning your father, but it was more complicated. You felt guilty.”  “We all thought you were mourning losing the use of your hand,” he spoke softly, caressing her hand. “Apparently it was much deeper than that.”  “Did you ever tell anyone?” He shook his head. “I thought about telling you.”

Hand - this is probably more than a snippet, but... I don't know if this WIP is ever going to see the light of day so I wanted to include the whole scene. This is from a S4 canon divergent core four OT4 story where Alya's job is to know everyone's identity, but to prevent them from figuring each other out. It's called, Rena Rouge: Secret Keeper.

“You’re dating Chat Noir?!” Marinette asked. “Marinette, calm down,” Alya   “But he’s… supposed to be in love with me!”  “Are you fucking kidding me right now?” Alya is actually pissed.  Marinette is taken aback.  “Okay, so first of all, you have made it clear on more than one occasion that you were not interested in Chat Noir.” “Yes, but you could have told me!”  “Second, you didn’t see him. He was caving in on himself, he truly believed no one would ever love him! He needed to see so badly that someone did love him. And not just one person.”  “I… I don’t understand. How could you do that to Nino?”  “Nino was on board! I had had feelings for him for awhile, and I happened to know that Nino did, too. We agreed a long time ago that we were allowed to have a relationship with Chat Noir if the opportunity ever presented itself.”  “Why did you never tell me?” “Because it’s fragile, and Chat Noir was uncomfortable with you specifically knowing. We respect his boundaries and his secrets, just as we respect yours.”  Marinette felt her anger deflate. “He loves you, you know. If you asked him to, he would choose you over us. All three of us know that. And we would never want to hold him back from his happiness with you if that was something you decided you wanted.”  “That seems unfair, too.”  “Well, this might seem self serving a bit, but for the record mine and Nino’s agreement didn’t just include Chat Noir.”  “It didn’t?”  Alya shook her head. “It also included Ladybug.” Marinette’s eyes went wide. “What?! You… what?!”  Alya took Marinette’s hand. “I don’t seem to be made for loving just one person. I fall in love at the drop of a hat. And well, I loved you first. Before Nino. Before Chat Noir. I would do anything for you, Marinette. I risk my life, I keep your secrets, I lie to the most important people in my life. It’s because I love you.”

Thread - from the next chapter of Right Behind You. Just wrote some of this today!

“I think this one is helpful,” Tikki called, flying to him with Marinette’s diary open to a date just a few weeks after she took over the Guardianship.  Auras are so pretty. Like I saw Nino’s today! His isn’t as bright as most people’s, but I can still see it! And it’s not just the colors and patterns. His whole aura wraps everyone he encounters in a hug. And it makes me feel warm just looking at it.  Nino read the description twice, smiling. “I’m allowed to read about my own aura?” he asked.  Tikki shrugged. “She really wasn’t specific enough there to cause any issues. Keep going!”   I’m super bummed that I can’t see the ones of the people that I’m closest to. Not Alya or Adrien, or even my parents! I really wish I could see them. At least I can hang out with my friends without getting blinded all the time.  “It’s love, right?” Nino asked out loud, voicing what he had been thinking when he couldn’t see his brother’s aura either.  “No,” Sass said.  “What do you mean, no?” Nino echoed. It felt like the most obvious explanation and the only common thread.  “You need to keep reading,” Tikki says.  “You can see everyone’s aura except your own,” Sass insisted. That’s what Wayzz had said as well.  “That’s obviously not true.”  “Except that it is.”  “Sass! I can’t see Adrien’s aura. Or Noel’s. Marientte couldn’t see Adrien’s or her parents.”  “That makes sense,” Sass said, sounding entirely too superior to Nino’s ears. “How does that make any sense?!” Nino demanded.  Wayzz darted into the living room from the other room holding out Nino’s phone. “Monsieur Cartier is threatening to fire you if you don’t take his call.”

No pressure tags to @jennagrinsoverml, @thelibraryloser, and @blur0se if you want!! Words: sob, warm, kiss Reserve: scream, knives, and smile

[thicctails]

The Baker's Daughter and her Evil Butterfly Future Father-In-Law

A potential ML AU is bubbling around inside my brain like the DVD logo. It wouldn't really be feasible in canon probably (then again, the writing for Miraculous could be done better by cocaine snorting gorillas, so...) and doesn't work with the current state of Hawkmoth, what with him being an almost comically abusive/evil parent instead of the "abusive via negligence but still loves his son" dad that i always saw him as in the earlier seasons, but I guess since this is an AU it's fine if we ignore canon somewhat.

Anyways, in this AU, Gabriel realizes that, despite being a fashion designer, over half of his Akuma designs are coming out really fucking ugly. Not willing to have this be his legacy, he manages to actually remember Adrien mentioning that his classmate, Marinette, has some real fashion talent. So, he reveals his supervillain identity to her (not knowing that she's Ladybug) and basically bribes/threatens her into helping him design better Akumas.

Marinette is, of course, freaking out over being trapped in a situation where Gabriel can not only make or break her future in fashion, but also has the power to ruin her or her family/friend's lives via his influence or by making them into Akumas or victims of Akumas. However, she realizes that her problem has a silver lining, which is that if she is the one designing Akumas, then she'll already know where the akumatized object is, plus she'll have opportunities to try and reclaim the Butterfly Miraculous. So, she agrees, and becomes Hawkmoth's partner in fashionable crime.

As the two spend more time together, Gabriel realizes that, huh, this girl really is talented, and she reminds him of his wife in both her genuine kindness and her ferocity whenever he threatens to make good on his threats. This tiny little baker is not taking his shit, and will gladly go toe to toe with him, even when she's not Ladybug.

This leads to him subtly manipulating her into opening up about her personal life, which isn't too hard because Marinette really doesn't have a lot of people who will actually listen to her problems and believe her at this point, and he learns about just how much drama goes on at her school. It's like a soap opera, and Akuma attacks go down simply because Gabriel's too invested in whatever bullshit Lila has concocted this time, or because Marinette lets him see some of her regular fashion concepts. This is also how he learns that Marinette has a crush on Adrien. (she doesn't tell him out right, he just picks up on it bc girly is not subtle)

All of this leads to Gabriel deciding that Marinette would make the perfect daughter-in-law, and a potential Butterfly/Peacock Miraculous holder, should something happen and he needs to prove he's not Hawkmoth/ he needs help pulling off a plan. After all, she already likes Adrien, she's actually talented in something that's relevant to his corporate empire, and although she usually appears meek, he knows she's willing to toughen up when she needs to!

Now all he needs to do is convince her...

[celestiall0tus]

So, I've had an incredibly shitty fucking night and absolutely seething still and so desire to redirect my rage towards the episode of Miraculous, Migration as it was the final straw.

So, who's ready for some unnecessary salt from a fucking pissed off bitch? No one? Excellent! Let's begin.

I fucking hated this episode. I truly do not believe that it needed to happen in the way it did. You want to make Marinette aware Luka knows? That's fucking fine. But this? What the fuck?!

My biggest issue is how far do you need to dumb the characters down to agree to Bob. He fucked you all over once, and despite the allure of stardom, why the fuck are they they stupid. He fucking stole from Kitty Section and they're just going to give him a second chance? Fuck what Luka said. Not everyone deserves a second fucking chance. That's usually how you get stabbed in the mother fucking back. I feel at five seasons in, this is a lesson that should have been learned.

Second, the whole "song in your heart." Anarka, Rose, and Juleka, choice. I feel for Anarka, Rose was cute, and Juleka was fire. Luka? What the fuck was that? This boy who is a rocker has whatever fuck that music is. And that he was about to spill all his secrets with his song? What the hell? The ladies get actual heart's song, but Luka is made out into a nark? Sure. Whatever. All the more reason for...

Luka's gone! This absolutely pissed me off. I acknowledge his reasons, but the writing and execution was awful! They don't keep the heart song and make his a fucking nark. Nice showing your true self there, Luka, if that is the case. They dumb down the characters to accept Bob's fucking contract, which, fucking congrats and hitting a new level of dumbass. I've seen actual 12 year olds smarter than these, what, 14-15 year olds?

Another minor nitpick being Jagged just "ripping up his contract". Yeah, in a fantasy, fictional world it can work like that. But it bothers me since, in reality, it wouldn't be that easy. But again, me just being nitpicky.

Only thing I liked was Juleka and Anarka. Rose for her heart's song moment. Otherwise, everything else was extremely disappointing.

I've no issue overall if they want to remove Luka to escalate the drama since when you have a literal therapist around, it negates the potential of drama when the characters can just go to him, but I digress. You want to write him out, do it in a way where the characters aren't turned into fucking dumbasses.

Anyway, this has been a L0tus rant. Everyone have a lovely day.

[purrincess-chat]

I think this fandom just really hates Adrienette, but I can't figure out the reason (but your theory of the fandom not taking them seriously because they're kids may be true). They write post-s5 break-up "fix it" fics, they say Adrienette should break up to restore the balance (not sure what balance they're talking about). Jeez, Adrienette is literally the cutest cartoon couple I've ever seen, and I've been rooting for them since day one. How can someone want them to break up? Why can't the fandom just be happy for them?

It's literally so baffling to me, nonny. There have been people who have been rooting against them since before they were even official in s5. And for why? For me, them getting together made sense after s4 bc, to me, s4 demonstrated why it couldn't have been LadyNoir. (Actually even as far back as s3 when we had Chat Blanc) And that's why I don't think it will be LadyNoir in the future either even if they did break up. The show has put too much emphasis on how everything goes wrong when the heroes pair up. They both get distracted and tragedy strikes. I don't forsee it being MC or Ladrien either bc MC literally agreed they can't be together, and I think that would go for Ladrien as well. And Marinette already gets enough shit from people for being a "stalker" to Adrien, and it would only get worse if they broke up, and she turned around and dated him again as Ladybug when he doesnt know it's her. I can already see the salt posts about how she's so obsessive and won't move on and how she's taking advantage of him and tricking him.

Adrinette is the side that worked, that's why they went that route. It allows the heroes to be heroes and the kids to be kids. We can still get meaningful interactions with the other sides while they are dating as civilians. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the dynamics evolve in future seasons. I wanna see MC and Ladrien half-requited with the heroes privately swooning over their bf/gf personally. We got a little bit of it in s5 with Chat swooning over Marinette when she was being a boss bitch. I want that in Ladrien, please.

I don't know why people hate Adrinette being together so much. I don't know where people get the idea that it's boring or problematic or detrimental to their characters or whatever fucking complaint they have against it. The Adrinette we got in s5 was great and so meaningful, and I'm happy that they did what they did. They could have just stuck them together in s5 and been like okay all of their problems are solved, and they're totally perfect and in love, but that's not what happened. They weren't perfect. They had to work together to make it work. They both recognized their traumas and respected each other's boundaries until they found something that worked for both of them. They really fought so damn hard to be together last season, but people just don't fucking care. My heart broke for them when they finally shared their first kiss, and it wasn't the perfect romantic moment they imagined. It was desperate, longing, afraid. All they wanted all season was just to be together, and now they finally have that. And we got that in a kids cartoon! So often love is treated as a fantasy where everything is perfect, and the couple gets together in the end and rides off into the sunset and lives happily ever after. But that wasn't their story, and I applaud them for that. I love that this show depicted the messier but crucially important sides of love about setting boundaries, addressing trauma so you don't hurt the other person, being patient and understanding while the other person is working through something because those things are hard in a relationship. A lot of those things are make or break in relationships, but the ones that want to be together will put in the work, and I think it's so important to show that in an age appropriate way to kids.

So, yeah, fuck anyone rooting for their downfall. Fuck anyone who thinks that the 4 sides are competing with each other and that Adrinette being together is an affront to their favorite side. Fuck anyone who thinks Adrinette being together is bad. It's not, and anyone who thinks it is can feel free to block me.

Maybe instead of rooting for Adrinette to break up, people should be rooting for a reveal. That's how we get the other sides, babes. That's how we should want to get the other sides. But this fandom isn't ready for a reveal tbh. They'd just bitch about how the sides are all the same now, and it's so boring. Can't win for fucking losing in this show.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Man, you had quite a day with the Adrien defense squad today (... and I pretty much joined them because I am just that fed up with Adrien salt).

I remembered I once told you to tone down the name calling around Adrien. At the time, it was over you calling him a dumbass for getting retconned to not know soccer and that one time you called him a manchild for having tantrums even though he is a maladjusted teen (the very same thing you would defend Chloe for). What set me off today was because you called Adrien a murderer and agreed with some rando who said he's worse than Chloe and Lila put together.

Like, dude. If you're gonna continue presenting yourself as a fair critic, going overboard with the salt is a major no-no. It'll make your critique less valid and people will call you out on it. I'd suggest getting a side blog to vent about Adrien all you want (you're entitled to your own opinion) but you gotta take the time to consider things from his perspective the way you would for characters like Marinette or Chloe.

Like how we debated over Sentibubbler. You would write him off as reckless and irresponsible even though there is a logical explanation for his behavior. He doesn't know Rena Rouge is a permanent hero, and it is suspicious she showed up while Ladybug is missing (Ladybug, the only one who can pass around the Miraculous). It wouldn't be the first time Shadowmoth tried to infiltrate their ranks with a fake hero such as sentinino or Volpina. So he wasn't unreasonable for demanding an explanation or ignoring her orders until Marinetre gave him an explanation.

And then there's the incident in the New York special, where you flat out called him a murderer over an accident. He didn't intend for it to happen. A true murderer would've intended it. And there's another side to it where Ladybug berating him in the middle of a fight tipped this situation over. It's not fair to place the blame on him alone. You can criticize him over ditching Paris all you want, but that's a different can of worms to murder. Him quitting may be seen as him running away from it, but from his perspective, relinquishing the Miraculous meant he no longer deserves to be a hero and he's willing to throw away his only ticket to freedom over his remorse for this.

In fact, this could be his mindset every time he relinquishes his Miraculous. As much as you criticize him for not being a worthy hero, no one in-universe is beating him up more over this than himself. He feels useless. His lack of attendance can be seen as negligence, but when Ladybug has over a dozen heroes to call on, some of which just stand in the sidelines doing nothing but waiting for her command, could you really blame him for thinking his absence is inconsequencial? I bet if he actually were to be present for everything and ended up doing nothing but standing next to Pigella, you'd still be salting on him.

You never give him the benefit of the doubt nor consider anything from his point of view. With Marinette, when she does something right, you can praise her straight up. When she fucks up, you're ready with a bunch of excuses like "she's under a lot of pressure guys, go easy on her". But when Adrien does something right, you can't help but throw in shade as to how he rarely does anything right. Heck, he might not even be in the scene but you're ready with a list of criticism against him at the slightest provocation. I was upset with your reviews for Ephemeral and Strikeback because of this. It's like the boy can't show up onscreen without you listing all of his shortcomings like one would sing the national anthem whenever the Adrien's flag rises.

It's not that you're wrong to criticize Adrien, it's just that you are going overboard. Sometimes it feels like you insert your beef against him even at instances where it doesn't belong.

I'm warning you. Ease up on the Adrien Salt before your valid critique devolves further into character bashing. You might find yourself someday with an unreasonable hatred towards Adrien the same way Astruc has this unreasonable hatred for Chloe.

I don't want you to apologize for your opinions. Just consider what I said. Your personal opinions are valid, but you must be conscious of where you put them in. I'm only telling you this because you seem to want to try to be as fair as you could.

You're pretty much right there, and you had every reason to call me out last night.

I went way too far with my criticisms of Adrien, and I'm pretty no much better than Astruc himself is with Chloe.

I'm going to make more of an effort to watch what I say regarding Adrien in the future and not devolve into blind hatred, I promise.

[taldigi]

hee hee hoo hoo I cant wait to see the felinette fucks get all discoursey again

The problems with adrienette started with felinette, and had felinette gone forward, it would have been bad- or possibly more toxic in a different direction- since Felix was never framed as a "pure and innocent sunshine boy" as the show seems to frame Adrien.

Cat's issues regarding nonchalance for his role as a hero and nonstop harassment of Ladybug stem from the original concept, of which was never re-framed to fit the new version of the deuteragonist until it became a roadblock for progressing an already-sluggish story.

Felinette was going to be bad because the show was still going to be written in the direction- and with the philosophy- that Marinette's suffering and misfortune was humorous. And while Adrien Agreste has, at least, the excuse of abuse and ignorance on his side, Felix did not. And from there, I can state, firmly. That Felinette would have been no better than Adrienette.

The idea that PV would have been "better" stems from the fact that, with a more serious (not darker, not more mature, but a more serious) tone, the show may have approached the story differently- and with less freedom to create more-for-lower-quality-3D episodes, the show may have compacted more of it's story into less episodes, resulting in a firmer progress of character development.

However, in the end, this is a result of writing and direction. Felix would have been no better than Adrien, I agree wholeheartedly. But he would have not been worse, either. The show would have still been spearheaded by the same folk who would have picked people to write the story as it matches their morals, humor, and vision for what the show would be. And if those people ultimately made the decision for titty physics on a 13-year old characters, skintight spandex on every little girl in the show, and sexual harassment/teenage girls are stupid and irrational humor then these people would have written Felix as shit because they write Adrien as shit.

And this also means that Fathom, or Luka, or whatever other character they could have decided on would be shit too- had they had made it canon instead of the LS. The same humor would have been draped over it- Luka, white savior, here to save Marinette from silly girl problems with his guitar and nonchalance- laughing at her every mistake and using his man powers to fix it. Look- My point is that he problem isn't adrienette, or marivanily, or kagaminette or lukanette-- its that the writing makes everything it touches toxic via marinette's humiliation becasue that is a CORE ELEMENT OF THE SERIES.

But Adrien was written, and Felix was not. It's hard for some people to really see that. Hell, some people can't see the difference between Pre-canon Felix(who is actually Adrien and PV Felix was named Adrien) and Felix Fathom. So of course people are going to make that claim- that Felix was going to be better. So while we have theories and what ifs, we don't have a solid statement on how old Love Square would have turned out. But we do have canon love square, we have six seasons of it.

But, you know what? Felix was not written. So I will write him instead, and I will write him better. I will write Felinette to be the way I always wanted Adrienette- except he wears a tie and is grumpy and has a punny name about being Lucky when he is not. Felix isn't Adrien- they changed him for a reason! I am interested in that version instead. I like to explore those what ifs. And if you're willing to put me down because of one thing or another outside of that, then get out of my space and leave me alone.

The only time anyone is ever wrong in this whole discussion is when they make the claim that PV = Fathom when actually PV = Adrien.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Honestly Season 5 ruined Kagami for me. Like, she was her great self in the first half, but the moment Pretension dropped it all went down the drain (literally and metaphorically lmao). Massive pair the spares energy and it ruined her character. She pulled so many dick moves with Felix that it just made me start to dislike her a little. Like, now she's telling him secrets she has no right to share, she's telling Marinette that secret in like, the most cruel way possible, she's standing there with the guy who caused Monarch and seems to agree with his justification for it, she's a-okay with killing sentis even though she knows what they really are, she's lying to Adrien about his father... Felix really ruined her lmao

Yeah it's.

I am pulling back and going on the 'be mad at the writing, not the character' thing because everyone's been awful this season so I can't hate her too much but I do hate these narrative choices.

It's like.

Kagami just magically forgiving Felix for everything makes no fucking sense to me. He literally did a bunch of fucked up shit, stalks and kidnaps her, then because he said 'probably should've tried approaching you like a normal person but I got so mad at your mom because she reminds me of my dad so I caused a bunch of problems on a whim' she's.... instantly in love with him? And sure that he's just socially awkward and everything was a misunderstanding?

GIRL

He willingly stole the Miraculous and handed them over to Monarch for his own benefit, tried to commit genocide which included killing your mother in front of you, and literally just admitted to stalking you for a while and finally kidnapping you.

This is the fastest stockholm syndrome speedrun I've seen in a WHILE