#is the shit cersei does successful?

[mmelolabelle]

it’s not that cersei lannister is actually smarter than alicent hightower (she isn’t) rather that cersei lannister is not burdened by such trivialities as ‘empathy’ or ‘self-awareness’ or ‘the reality of the situation’; the idea that she cannot do something just doesn’t occur to cersei, ever, every societal norm and moral code is a personal inconvenience to her

oh and she is actually for real insane

it all enables cersei to just do shit to a degree that other characters can only marvel at

[jeyneofpoole]

asoiaf dash simulator again

🌼 night-of-flowerz-girl

the blatant misinformation on this waebsyte is crazyyyy. guys. loras tyrell is NOT DEAD that is literally lannister propaganda 😭 please check your sources omg how do you think his family feels???

🛡️ fieldmaiden

margaery tyrell can dry her tears on the finest cloth of gold for all i care have we not established that the tyrells are smallfolk panderers who only talk about serf issues to keep us placated and working their fields? stand UP. anyways tyrelloverparty forever hope the burns hurt 🙏

🍃 greenseeeerr

omfg stop lusting after the children of the forest they are literally minor coded 😭😭😭 what is wrong with you people!!!!!

💄 andalsandal

hey op what the fuck does this mean

🐻 moremont

me and my big hairy bear husband have three beautiful daughters and i couldn’t be happier

🐻 moremont

THE ANIMAL.

⚡️dondarriugh

omfg beric is DEAD??????

⚡️ dondarriugh

ok there are some conflicting reports in my inbox hold on

⚡️ dondarriugh

oh no he’s actually dead. fly high king!!!!!

⚡️ dondarriugh

wait what????

⚡️ dondarriugh

WHAT IS HAPPENING

⛳️ brotherhood-without-banners-official

Lord Dondarrion is hale and hearty, thanks be to the Lord of Light ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

⚡️ dondarriugh

HELLO??????

🛖 small-folk-big-ass

save me bowl of brown…… bowl of brown…… bowl of brown save me…….

🛖 small-folk-big-ass

hopital

🐉 rhaeeenyraaa

the revisionist history on here is fucking insaneeeee. cersei lannister is NOT maegor come again guys let’s use our critical thinking skills ok?????

🚬 sourleef

cersei lannister is a nepo baby who dicks down her twin brother on the regular and squeezes out evil kids with weak jawlines like it’s a sport. let’s not act like she’s some kind of win for wench suffrage she’s a fucking dictatorial monarch

🍁 weirdwood

wait don’t you mean her twin brother is dicking her down?????

🚬 sourleef

i know what i said.

🐕 ramsay-bitch-imagines

IMAGINE…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You’re Ramsay’s favorite dog, and he wants to reward you after a successful hunt.

WARNING: DEAD DRAGON DO NOT EAT!!!!!DON’T LIKE, DON’T READ!!!!

Read More

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

🐋 s4ltw1fe

who’s going to tell lady asha that she doesn’t have to date those foppish little boys as community service. don’t worry queen EYE see your caerybaenor……

👤 reynesofcastamere-deactivated-3738372920

lmao that blonde little cuck is NOT getting his gold back

👤 tarbeckhall-deactivated-4748392038383

we should hook up for rebellion lol. what’s he even gonna do about it?

🦁 hear-me-roar

hey guys.

🧼 barmaid

oh my god this is THE post

🍺 pintofale

holy shit i never thought i’d see this outside of illuminated vellum screenshots

🪡 tall-tailor

this post is a fucking graveyard

[15-lizards]

GENDER SWAP RENLY AND STANNIS OUTFITS PLEASSSS. And maybe Robert too

SISTERLY DYSFUNCTION WE LOVEEEEE even tho the character of Robert is kinda tricky bc his character is rooted in his manhood but fuck it we ball maybe we can just make Westeros a matriarchy #Feminism

Fem Roberta (definitely named Roberta) (also the middle Katie McGrath pic is the fc) is the kinda the biggest lesbian bait ever. Non-dutiful eldest daughter set to inherit storms end but she does NAWT give a shit she wants to go play around in the Vale with fem Ned and drink and whore etc etc. Rides and fights like a man and even wears men’s armor but still dresses and (sometimes) acts like a noble lady when the situation calls for it. She’s not a tomboy who chafes at nobility she’s a rowdy noble girl who LOVES her status she loves excess. Charismatic girl who managed to get men to follow her into war to get back Fem Ned’s little brother even though she loves him like a prize. And she loves the idea of being connected to Ned more than that. But other than her homoerotic obsession with her best friend and she is totally and completely heterosexual 👍🏻

Fem Stannis (Stana? Castana?) is kinda so Eva Green do we see the vision people. She’s a flop daughter who dresses like a utilitarian, very little room in her looks for comfort. Internalized misogyny for days bc she thinks if she were a son she could be so much better than her sister is. She’s kinda like if Cersei slayed a little less. When Roberta dies she can’t garner any support bc even though they were both women, her elder sister was always more persuasive and well liked, which is half the reason she became queen. So now she’s behind her bastard nephew and nieces who aren’t even related to her in the line of succession (let’s pretend masc Cersei and fem Jamie swapped the kids or smthn idk 😭). And her new red witch is not doing favors for the people who think magic = dark and womanly and evil. She’s such a flop and gay for the older pirate lady who saved her life and she can never do anything right ily girl

And Fem Renly/Rena/Renia is kinda the baddest bitch in the seven kingdoms. She’s even prettier than Roberta was at her age, and just as charismatic, and far more agreeable, acting more like a “proper” lady. Though she rides as well as her eldest sister, and even took up the sword too, wanting to be a warrior queen when she was little. Her fits always go crazy, a fourth of the treasury at storms end is set aside for her favorite green enameling and gold accessories. She’s kinda the star of court and thinks Roberta has gotten lazy and Stana has too much of a stick up her ass to be a good queen. Ofc in true Baratheon fashion she has a gay who worships her like a god, her trusted lady-knight Lora Tyrell, who gives her the support of her house before she unfortunately gets merked. Rip queen I wish you could’ve been mean on the internet

[atopvisenyashill]

That whole era of the Second Quarrel onwards is so obscure when it comes to the succession and the tensions surrounding it. No reactions. No massive events or much about dynamics. I want to know about Viserys's coronation. I want to know what he felt about his own succession before the GC. And before that, I want to know if Baelon ever tried to mend fences. If Jaehaerys ever mentioned it again, and how. How Rhaenys made her life, now all but an exile, on Driftmark. What motivated Aemma and Viserys's marriage. WHEN DID JOCELYN DIE?!

LITERALLY OMG. Number one frustrating thing about F&B is we get pages and pages of stuff no one in the world gives a shit about - Maiden's Day, that stupid story about Jaehaerys fucking the writer - and nothing on the subjects that actually got most people into the damn series like the POLITICS or the MAGIC. all of THAT is completly glossed over or Gyldane (and Yandel for that matter) just go "Well Barth did say this thing but that's nonsense" and then no elaboration. drives me up a WALL because yeah sure maybe the long, pages upon pages of battles and fighting are not my cup of tea but a) they're perfectly well written and b) THEY MAKE UP FOR IT BY GIVING ME SEVERAL CHAPTERS IN A ROW OF CERSEI AND SANSA JUST CHILLING AND POLITICKING IN DETAIL. He makes up for that in F&B by giving me MORE Jaehaerys as if that's what I want!!!

There's a few eras in F&B I think are likely to come up in the main series or in dunk and egg which is why I think F&B is so frustratingly vague (and if they were kept vague for no reason….george what. george WHY). And I do get he wanted to give us more of what he was writing without spoiling later books but good lord i would actually rather wait longer for material that isn't 60% george going "well i can't tell them ALL of that, let's just wink at the audience." The Second Quarrel is one of those times that might be relevant later imo largely because there's just. NOTHING. NO INFO. NO EVENTS. Like you said, there are NO major events in this time period. the ONLY thing happening is politics and court intrigue but F&B isn’t interested in court intrigue unless it involves grooming a 12 year old girl and unfortunately there is only poor Aemma being groomed at this time so F&B says “too many old people they’re not sexy” and just gives us sparse details about marriage dates, birth dates, and death dates. We don’t even see how rhaenys and viserys feel about THEE QUEEN ALYSANNE dying!!!!!!!! She just. Passes. oh so sad. george i’m in your walls!

Unlike every other Targaryen child (Aemma, Viserys, Daemon, herself, even Aerea and Rhaelle to an extent) who is allowed to grow up at court surrounded by other Valyrians and members of the royal family, Rhaenys kids are denied this. With this move, as you say, Jaehaerys all but tells Rhaenys "get you and your fuckin kids the hell out of my city." Can you imagine being Rhaenys, newly pregnant, having been told for years by your father and grandmother that you will be Queen one day just to be suddenly and unceremoniously exiled from court and kicked completely out of the line of succession? Can't even begin to get into how deranged it is to do this to your pregnant granddaughter when she's mourning the loss of her father

WHEN DOES JOCELYN BARATHEON DIE. HOW DOES SHE FEEL ABOUT HER DAUGHTER AND GRANDKIDS BEING PASSED OVER?????? She is only a year or two older than Aemon, she could easily have still been alive and making a fuss during Viserys' reign especially after he names Rhaenyra his heir SO HOW DID SHE FEEL ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

Baelon and Viserys' coronations/weddings/big We Are The Royal Line Now Shenangians during this era are crazyyy right, because THE QUEEN OF WESTEROS is refusing to talk to the iron throne, can’t ride her dragon anymore, is losing her hearing and memory, and goes everywhere with Gael to the point that no one even attempts to marry Gael bc they know Alysanne will never let her go. THATS INSANE. They are LIVING SEPARATELY like practically pseudo divorced the way Doran and Mellario are, so is Alysanne just purposefully snubbing these celebrations and using “i’m old” as an excuse or is she passive aggressively riding a carriage all the way back to KL just to show up wearing velaryon colors to viserys’ wedding and then left again without saying goodbye before the banquet even started???

AMD BAELON. part of why i’m so turned off by him is bc we have no indication he felt even a little had but to be fair it has been pointed out to me that we ALSO have no indication he didn’t feel bad; we have no indication of his feelings whatsoever!!! for all we know HE could have felt this was unfair & had been in the middle of either brokering a marriage between his grandkids and her kids, or figured “hey we had this exact same issue with Auntie Rhaena, maybe I should build House Targaryen a second and third seat or even given Dragonstone to The First Born Girl as tradition from now on” like he really could have been trying OR he could have been cackling and rubbing his hands together and encouraging viserys to bed 13 year old aemma soon and often to ensure their line, and calling rhaenys a stupid bitch at court, like we just don’t know!!!!!

We get several “they never agreed on the succession” comments but how does that translate to ACTION. stop telling me dates and tell me WHAT HAPPENED.

[lagosbratzdoll]

Whenever I see adaptations of novels, comics, and games that elevate the source material, I get deeply and monstrously bitter. Wheel of Time, Foundation, Percy Jackson, The Boys, Outlander, Big Little Lies, Pachinko, Sharp Objects, WATCHMEN!!! All are so good, so beautifully written and moving that when you stack shit like Game of Thrones beside them, it falls flat on its face.

I still think about Jon telling Angela that he is in every moment they spent together all at once. Every time I think about Watchmen S01E9, my throat gets tight and my mouth wobbles. A triumph of storytelling. When you compare this with the disappointment that is Game of Thrones, it becomes clear that being mediocre, white, and a man often leads to success even when you fail.

I get angry because it’s possible to take novels/comics with so many moving parts and rich history, update them for our time and make the rich source material even richer. Those men just didn’t know how. 

And before anyone says the first three seasons are good. Are they? Are they really? Or are we just blinded by the perceived faithfulness to GRRM’s work when we weigh it against the utter shit show that was the last season? The show lifts all the best parts wholesale from the books and magnifies all the worst parts. 

They portrayed the Dothraki with a lack of care compared to the Free Folk. They furthered the lack of non-white perspectives by erasing what little we had. Presenting freedom as if it is worse than chattel slavery. The extinction of the Dothraki in service of white Northerners who were less than welcoming. 

The show does not name more than half of Daenerys' more prominent Dothraki characters on screen. Killing Irri, Jhiqui and Doreah to further isolate Daenerys. Transferring all the better traits from women to the men in their lives. Turning Jorah from an old paedophilic creep into whatever the fuck that was on the show. Alluding to the “first they came” poem for rapists, slavers and other monsters. Peddling the gentle slave-owner myth as if owning a person is not inherently violent. 

Having Missandei be beheaded in chains to fuel madness for literally no reason. Cersei could’ve bargained for her life or at least some concession from Daenerys with Missandei’s life, but they have her behead Missandei for no other reason than to piss off a woman with a large army and an even larger dragon. It made little sense then, and it makes even less sense now. 

I know it’s a bit much to still be so affected by that dumpster fire almost a decade in, but I saw that interview with those idiots yesterday, and I have been furious ever since. 

[slaygentford]

Jaime and Cersei

I honestly love asoiaf as-is so much like there isn’t anything off the top of my head I’d change; there’s stuff I hope for going forward but there’s nothing so far I’d change which is why I wholeheartedly love it and think it’s such a successful endeavor. So I have little/no interest in inventing ships which means that I love jamcers as they are, which is sick symbolically rich high genre shit like LETS GOOOOOOOOOO. I FUCKING love them I love how severely they’re unraveling I love them realizing they never knew each other at all I love Jaime hating her and I love Cersei hating him and I love them still loving each other underneath all of that in a legitimate familial way which is SO FUNNY like it’s god’s FUNNIEST joke. They are so profoundly fucked by the universe and each other and grrm and the trajectory of the war and age and all of it. Valonqar is obv a red herring but it’d be tasty I’ll admit it I’m sorry. It’d be tasty. I don’t read fic of them I’m not interested in “shipping” them but oh my GOD what’s on the page is insane. Obv jb is fated and so beautiful and the thing that destabilizes all of it and my greatest wish is for cersei to never ever ever meet brienne. UNLESS……… she does and Jaime truly sees her entirely for what she is. I love when they scare each other. When Jaime is disgusted by Cersei for how she treats tommen and when Cersei is scared that Jaime pushed bran. Nightmare. Poison house. Crimson peak. Jane eyre. Wuthering heights. Now I’m just naming applicable media.

[montyluvsjasper]

So, you're saying Daenerys is a "white feminist" but social justice and virtue signaling in art is bad in the same sentence? 😂😂😂 Poor little retarded cry baby. So desperate that can't even stay consistent.

You just called an Autistic person the r SLUR in defense of a fictional character who's in story "race" is based on the aryan race... remember what those aryan's started calling themselves? Remember what they did to autistic people? But we'll let that slide this time dear.

I think show!Dany is written and adapted by hbo and D&D in a bland 2010s white feminist way that GRRM did not intend but was popular in media at the time to make money. That's my biased opinion on the way a fictional character was written in a book adaptation. I do not think Dany is a white feminist because Dany is not real.

Social justice has its place in art, but fandom is not Social Justice activism and all art does not need to be radical. No one should be judged for making art that doesn't hurt anyone. No one is required to make their art soft and a safe place.

Liking Dany, Sansa, Alicent, Cersei, Rhaenyra, Rhaenys etc. does not make you a better feminist and it doesn't "raise awareness" or make you cooler or more liberal. Art is very often fiction there for is not real and is rather inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. You're permitted to enjoy it as you personally see fit.

No one who likes Aegon, Aemond, Joffery (please remember that his actor got so much hate for playing that character he had to find a new CAREER PATH not job a CAREER PATH) or Ramsay is automatically a morally corrupt human being and this whole it's "sus" thing shows a lack of media literacy, critical thinking and large amounts of purity culture shifted into fandom, social justice or some other outlet instead properly unpacking.

This shit is all fake and for fun literally none of it matters. None of it has ever mattered. Not the shit that "happened" between Dean and Cas or Clarke and Lexa. No fandom shit is REAL. Using it to assign moral value to anything ruins the experience. This is a hobby, it's not that serious. Let people have fun and do what they want. Using FICTION to signify MORALITY is bullshit.

Virtue signaling isn't a simple issue with things that matter, why the fuck would we bring it into FICTION or a HOBBY. Right now, this fandom is doing that with actors and jeopardizing their careers not to mention how we treat each other or how we all go around antagonizing each other over a fictional succession crisis.

But I expect someone who still uses slurs in 2024 is probably too dense and self absorbed to realize any of that on their own. Have a day sweetie.

[la-pheacienne]

‘you’ve got to stop viewing this show through a modern lens’ how much you wanna bet this was said by someone who thinks dany is evil for executing the slavers

I guess this is about this post. Oh but you see the problem with this statement is that everyone says it. Everyone, including me. What is actually difficult is sticking to it, with honesty and consistency. This is a tricky thing to do and I am also conscious of how easy it is to stray away from it when it doesn't suit my arguments, and weaponize it again, when it suits them. I do believe that overall I'm doing a good job at it though.

Just to clarify some things. We are looking at the story with a "modern lens". Everyone is. It is inevitable. The writer itself is a modern writer, he's not a writer of the 19th century. He is an American man of late 20th and early 21 century. This story is a modern work of American fiction.

The question isn't exactly "are you looking at the story with a modern lens". The question is "are you looking at the story with the story's lens". Do you understand what the story is saying, or you are making shit up? Are you capable of defining the context of this work of fiction, or are you substituting it with other works of fiction such as Succession, or Magnificent Century, or your own aesthetic political beliefs ? Do you understand, to get to the post you're referring to, that the core idea of ASOIAF and Fire and Blood is that the concept of bastardry is wrong and people who weaponize it are antagonists? Not by our modern standards, by the story's standards (and don't even mention Ned threatening Cersei because this is an entirely different and totally specific situation).

Sometimes, the voice of the author happens to coincide with modern morality (bastardry = wrong). Sometimes, the voice of the author does not coincide with modern morality (incest, romanticized sexual/romantic relationships between adults and minors, monarchy, characters with a messianic role).

[tinfairies]

There are lots of women in GoT and HoTD lore that are able to be come great rulers but couldn’t due to misogyny he’ll look at the rulers of Dorne half of which are women and treated equal, it’s just that Nyra isn’t, she showed no interest in politics she wanted the crown because it was handed to her and she knew it was hers. She married Daemon which was the exact reason why she was granted the throne in the line of succession so he wouldn’t have it. Her sons born by Harwin aren’t even versed in Valarian their mother tongue their only birth right really which is through their mother they can’t fight granted it’s because she took them from KL and kept them at Dragonstone which is a whole other issue and reasons why I understand but it alienated her and makes Aegons claim stronger, she runs purely on impulse and emotion which a good ruler does not make. It’s not misogyny to say she would make an awful queen because Rheneys would be an amazing queen, Margery, Cersei (until she blew up the sept and also went bat shit believing that Tyrion was in the walls) Dany (before she went mad show wise, book wise we still have hope)

Yep I agree. Neither Aegon or Rhaenyra are/were/would be good rulers. Like genuinely, the kingdom would have issues with Nyra as queen just as they had issues with Aegon. Nobody wins in this situation and I blame Otto and Viserys completely. They caused their own dynasties downfall

[navree]

What do you think of house Lannister?

In general? I think they're fun, they're neat, they're a bunch of overdramatic bitches but because they don't have dragons and instead just have a shitton of money it's not as dangerous as the Targaryens. It's like them Succession kids, but in Westeros. They're very funny, it's just this family of messy bitches with good genes who decide to make their problems everyone's problems even tho they're not even royalty, they're just That Dramatic that it infects everyone else.

As for specific Lannisters in ASOIAF, my feelings go a bit deeper.

I like Cersei fine, she's fun to read about and her head's fun to be in because she thinks she's so much smarter than she is and that cognitive dissonance can be very entertaining, but I don't necessarily have the strongest or deepest feelings about her, she's pretty much just an entertaining character I enjoy.

Jaime is my son. He is my baby boy. I love him so much I just want to cuddle him up in a blanket and yell at every single person he's ever talked to until they apologize for being mean to him. Like, God his flashback chapters where he thinks on shit he had to go through in Aerys's Kingsguard literally hurts. If he gets a rocks fall death in the books like in the stupid show I'm gonna be so pissed, he is my number one boy (I think he might be a very strong contender for second favorite male ASOIAF character) and I will protect him with my life and love him fiercely. And why second favorite? Because...

Tywin is the best character in this series. He may be the best character in the entire ASOIAF/GOT/HOTD franchise. He's never done anything wrong except for all the evil stuff he did wrong but it's fiction and he ain't on trial so he's the best. I literally love everything about Tywin, I love all his scenes and all of his characterization and the hints we get of the kind of person he is since we're never in his head. I love his intelligence and his mind and I like that he does encompass what it means to be ruthless, to see the bright line in getting from point A to point B and following that line with no deviations no matter what it does for or to other people. I love smart characters, and I especially love smart politicians, so Tywin is basically if crack was an ASOIAF character for me. And I adore his interpersonal relationships. People have talked to death about Tywin's relationship with his kids and I wouldn't add anything new, but his relationship with his siblings needs to be discussed more. That tidbit about him being the only one to stand up for Genna when she was betrothed to House Frey and how angry it made him is literally just *chef's kiss*. And I could write a thesis dissertation on Tywin and Kevan and all the intricate displays of their relationship but for now I'll say this: the final published chapter of ASOIAF being Kevan's POV where when he gets shot with a crossbow his first thought is literally "no, no, this is how my brother died" is fucked up. That's a really fucked up thing to do George. And sue me I'm a sucker for the dynamic Tywin had going on with Joanna. That shit hits hard.

So, here's an unpopular opinion: I do not like Tyrion. I don't mean I don't like him as a character, I love him as a character, his story is interesting and the way he's written is good and he's understandable and I sympathize with him and I acknowledge and respect him as a key player in the series and one of the five Peak Core cast. And honestly, I appreciate his story and I do feel emotions for him and the way he's treated as a disabled man in a society like Westerosi society. But on a personal leve, I do not like Tyrion, for one very simple reason: Tyrion is so completely and unbearably misogynistic that is genuinely difficult for me to spend time in his head. Now I know what you might be thinking, "Amélie he's not the only misogynistic character" and no he's not, but out of the main male characters, he is the most overt and the most physical with it, not only just constantly thinking awful shit about women but also doing things like slapping Shae for talking and strangling her for the crime of him thinking she's someone she wasn't and even though I'm aware that it's for a furtherance of his arc, him raping the sex slave literally makes me hurl. And while I'm equally as aware that he's not the only Lannister POV character to have severely misogynistic takes (ohhhh Cersei and your internalized sexism), I'm more willing to give Cersei some grace because she is a woman and is suffering under a misogynistic society that has hurt her. For all else Tyrion is, he is a man, a highborn man to boot, and he has benefitted extremely from Westeros's misogyny as well as being a perpetrator of it that does not afford him the same leniency from me that Cersei gets as a victim.

And honestly, some of the shit he thinks about Cersei is just......ugh. I'm not a Cersei stan by any stretch, but I do have some genuine issues with some of the stuff he thinks and says re: her. Tyrion is more than allowed to hate Cersei for her horrible treatment of him, even allowed to want her dead, but him constantly going on about how he wants to rape and murder her not for anything she'd done in the past but for thinking he'd murdered Joffrey (which he knows she genuinely thinks is true, the issue is that Tywin knew it wasn't but was gonna use it to get rid of him anyway) is exhausting. It is genuinely taxing for me to read about how frequently he wants to be gruesomely sexually violent towards a woman not for any wrong she actually did him, and she's done a lot, but for her own erroneous belief that he knows is genuine on her part. Again, I get where he's coming from, I really do, I understand why it's being written and I understand how someone can get to that point, especially after all Tyrion's been through, and I'm not heartless as I said before and there are feelings I have about him, but idk, maybe it's Being A Woman and that the kind of misogyny Tyrion constantly exhibits is a kind that still very much exists today in the modern world, but it's a hurdle I can't get over when it comes to him.

(and also it's a nitpick cuz i know there's no way he could have known about it but it still rubs me the wrong way when i reread the series and he has his thing about how he liked robert when cersei hated him when i know that the reason cersei hated him was because he raped and abused her, it's just a Thing for me)

So yeah, that's the House Lannister take for the most part from me. As House, they're fun and more lighthearted in terms of shit they get up to and very funny, which Cersei tends to encapsulate for me as a character, and I have a lottttt of feelings, just very different ones, re: Tywin and Jaime, and Tyrion is...Well, it's fiction and it's not my job to like every single character, even popular ones.

[saltywinteradult]

Quora reshare: Why do most people like/support Rhaenyra Targaryen over Aegon II, she seems to act more like Cersei then pre-madness Daenerys?

Written by Kelsey Hayes

I got Cersei vibes much, much more from Alicent than from Rhaenyra, for what it’s worth: A queen from a very powerful family shreds the king’s will to the benefit of her children/house and in doing so kicks off a civil war, which she’s largely able to sit out while other people suffer the consequences. Rhaenyra does have some Cersei-like aspects (like passing her bastards off as legitimate), but overall I’d code her more as Dany (early loss of children, misplaced expectations of loyalty, paranoia, eventual absolutism and alienating supporters).

In any case, Rhaenyra being more like Cersei or Dany is beside the point with regard to the actual question, which is why people might like her over Aegon II. And my answer there is that I simply think Rhaenyra was in the legal right. Viserys I wanted her to succeed him, took oaths to that effect and treated her as his legal heir (including investing her as Princess of Dragonstone in her own right). There was zero ambiguity.

Yeah, Aegon II was male and ordinarily would have come ahead of Rhaenyra. But the precedent had already been set for a king to bypass certain branches of the family to choose his own heir, when Jaehaerys I skipped over Rhaenys to move to Baelon and his line when Aemon died. If a precedent could be set to skip a woman in the succession when she ordinarily wouldn’t be, why couldn’t the opposite be done? Jaehaerys muddied the waters first, and Viserys somehow got the idea that a king’s heir could be whoever he wanted — who could’ve guessed?

By the end of the war, both Rhaenyra and Aegon demonstrated that they had no business ruling anything and were both just … utterly shit. But on paper, at the start, in my opinion, Rhaenyra had the right.

[warsofasoiaf]

If Robert got a head wound from Rhaegar and became more about securing his reign and dynasty, and incidentally ruling well, than revenge, it occurs to me that an opportunistic response to the Lannisters' role in the Rebellion would be to lose his shit and execute Jaime & Tywin for regicide, infanticide and sacking HIS capital. Then marry Cersei to Stannis & name him protector of the Rock & Warden of the West. Tyrion, Lancel & Tyrek are wards & Gerion a hostage. to be continued...

Robert dealing with Lannisters II: IF Tyrion impresses Robert a lot with his competence & loyalty MAYBE he gets to succeed to the Lordship of the Rock when he's 25. Otherwise he gets to pick the Faith, Citadel or Wall and Stannis becomes jure uxoris LoCR. Even if Tyrion is the Lord, because dwarf, Stannis keeps the Wardenship with an eye to making it hereditary & he has first dibs on Rock's treasury & taxes in the West to fund the office (with a nice cut going to the crown, of course) tbc

Is this strategy viable? Would people see it as overreach or could Robert & co sell it as a punishment for Tywin's horrible crimes on top of his eradication of two noble houses, plus the judgement of the gods via Tyrion? If they come down hard on Tywin like this, does it keep the Martells on side or do they need to punish the Reach for besieging Storm's End by giving some of their stuff to Dorne? Also, when Lyanna dies, is marrying Cersei & taking the Rock for Robert's younger son a better idea?

I don't think this would end up working out for a few reasons.

First, we really don't see a similar precedent in Westerosi history when it comes to doing that with Casterly Rock or the Warden of the West title. If that did happen, you'd see Tygett abscond to Essos with much of the Rock's wealth, and unrest run throughout the Westerlands, definitely not what Robert wants. The Warden title is a traditional title for Casterly Rock, although it could be given in times of need to someone else, but to make it explicitly hereditary for this new House Baratheon branch would be probably seen as overreach.

Second, Robert really has a political brand for forgiving enemies into friends, to go against Tywin so hard might engender fear from the other rebel vassals. Dorne and the Reach might not lay down their weapons if they think they're going to be killed and have their lands stripped. Robert didn't even take hostages from his enemies, to take them from the Lannisters would be seen as specifically targeting the house, rather than Tywin himself.

Third, Robert and Jon Arryn didn't really know how successful the aftermath of Robert's Rebellion after the fact. We know looking into the story that Robert would have prosperity and peace during his reign.

Fourth, sacking King's Landing wouldn't be seen as sacking Robert's capital - Aerys is in charge and it's his city. Military traditions at the time found sacks for non-surrendering cities to be an acceptable practice.

Fifth, punishing Tywin for Tyrion ala judgment of the gods would be unusual and probably blasphemous; since that's the Father's place, not Robert's. We don't see that as a practice anywhere else in Westeros; practices we see usually are that the poor man or woman is killed at birth.

Sixth, why would Robert need to take stuff from the Reach and give it to Dorne? Dorne sent levies to further Aerys's unjust war just as the Reach did, and it's not like Doran Martell is suddenly going to be friendly with Robert even if Robert punishes Tywin for Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon the Infant. Doran lost out significantly by having his family removed from the royal succession. Even dicked over as much as he was by Rhaegar and Aerys both, Robert's leaving Doran in a diminished position: troops destroyed at the Ruby Ford, family members dead, his prestige weakened for having lost.

But I compliment you for attempting to build a large and cohesive what-if. I wish I had more Anons like you attempting to build so creatively.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[ericanoelle]

Dude what if Petyr and Sansa met when Petyr was young?

Me going back on my bullshit- Tumblr what if series.

For this to work, Petyr would have had to be born in Sansa's generation and not Catelyn. Meaning, he never would have had his villain origin story. Catelyn would have married Ned still and Lysa still would have married Jon Arryn. Never having been force fed moon tea, Lysa probably would have had more children with Jon Arryn and been less.....odd. Probably had a better relationship with her sister.

Young Petyr would still have caught the eye of Jon Arryn, and would have still been working in Gulltown, bringing the Baelish house more money because he would still be good with numbers.

I still picture Petyr being at least five or six years older than Sansa.

Jon Arryn is still hand of the king and things in Kings Landing are still incesty as ever. The only difference is Littlefinger is not there to stir shit up.

Sansa is betrothed to Joffrey but she has never met him. Jon Arryn brings Petyr to King's Landing to work on the small council, but again, he isn't this hardened Machiavellian character we know in the books. He does things a bit more honestly. Meaning, he doesn't plot to start the war of the five kings. He stays out of it and does his job.

When Sansa is 16, she is brought to King's Landing and marry's Joffrey. This is a nightmare. He is cruel to her from the first moment they marry and Petyr begins to take a soft spot for the princess. Jon Arryn discovers Cersei's secret but in this, Jaime and her kill him before he can tell anyone. When Cersei kills Robert soon after, Tywin is brought in as hand of the king. Joffrey becomes King and controlling him is not easy.

Sansa, also, never falls with child due to Joffrey's.....incest issues.

Petyr is the one who ends up cleaning Sansa up, healing her wounds and they begin an affair. At first Sansa is horrified by what she has done but the affair continues. Joffrey's abuse and torment in court begins to slowly break both Sansa and Petyr of that shared innocence they had. Eventually, when Sansa is about 20, she becomes with child but its Petyr's- not Joffrey's.

In desperation to ensure that both Sansa and their child is cared for, Petyr plans to kill the king. He is clever about it. He does not do it in a manner such as he did with Brandon Stark. Tommen is engaged to Margaery and the Tyrell's want their precious flower on the throne. Petyr is the one who arranges this match and is given Harrenhal for his trouble. He conspires with Olenna to kill Joffrey but instead of his own wedding, he dies at Tommen's.

This throws the line of succession into question, everything depends upon whether or not Sansa gives birth to a boy.

She doesn't. She has a daughter. She requests to take her daughter, Princess Lyanna Baratheon (the name was to spite Cersei) to Winterfell. Tywin and Tommen (the new king) agrees because while Sansa was essentially Joffrey's prisoner while Queen, she still was on the throne and thus the Starks were not enemies of the Lannisters. (I also imagine Ned and Cate being kept in the dark about this).

Sansa goes back to Winterfell with her daughter and Petyr eventually decides to return try and repair Harrenhal. When the mourning period has passed, he offers for Sansa's hand and since she is a free lady, she agrees.

Petyr and Sansa raise their daughter and other children in the Riverlands, away from the politics of Kings Landing. Eventually bending the knee with Daenerys Targaryen comes across the Narrow Sea.

[mrdarcygenderenvy]

Pride and prejudice and zombies (ranked out of 10 by my own terrible system)

We’re getting deep in now, huh. This is a film that does what you might expect from the title, but does it do it well?? HMM.

Full disclosure, I only watched this because the advert had Lena Headey (cersei in game of thrones... don’t @ me) in it having a swordfight with Lily James, a disappointingly short section of the film. LET’S GET INTO IT.

VIBES: This is a shockingly direct, fully-resolved adaptation of pride and prejudice... which also had a poorly-thought-out zombie story shoved into it that maybe the people making it just did NOT care about. I think it went through production hell, and narratively it’s bizarrely all over the place, like moreso than the title suggests.

TAKES: Not to go too ‘I am a comics editor’ mode on this but it just did not resolve (the ending was angling for a sequel) and the worldbuilding made no sense. Could easily have been fixed with one or two scenes or ANY THOUGHT. IF YOU’RE PROMISING ME BOTH THINGS IN A MASHUP FILM, DO THEM BOTH. Give me the zombie film resolution!!!!!!! GIVE THE ZOMBIE WORLDBUILDING THE RESPECT IT DESERVED, they’re in the TITLE!!!

Also I can’t not mention that in order to be badass everyone learns unspecified Japanese or Chinese martial arts (and which they learn depends on... how rich they are.......) Seems very poorly thought out and mystifying in the context of, you know, the violence of irl British colonialism including towards China in this era. ARE THE OPIUM WARS ABOUT TO HAPPEN IN THIS ZOMBIE 19THC UNIVERSE? HMM?

TANGENT: My minimal wikipedia research (yes it felt so weird that I wanted to research what was going on there) gives me the impression the book it’s based on was worse and full of ninjas. The author’s just sort of an american man nerd who arguably, one could reasonably assume, likes pop culture references and screenwriting more than the emotional heart of period dramas and/or zombie movies. Or thinking too deeply about what weird racist and sexist ideas his writing might be perpetuating. ONE COULD ARGUE.

Wildness: 6/10. It SEEMS like a wild premise, but really you have just spliced two bits of very well trodden narrative ground together without enough heart. But yes, it is wild is seeing them trying (unsuccessfully) to pivot the Netherfield Ball SEAMLESSLY into a zombie attack scene

Mr Darcy gender envy rating: 0/10 Can’t even fucking remember who Mr Darcy was in this, that’s how little impression he had on me, a charismatic void.  I imagine this helped secure the film’s critical lack of success

Who is this man. Also god it’s almost as if they don’t even care that black cravats would have been exclusively worn by the military and only white was IN until at least the 1820s!! Unless his status as zombie hunter makes him sort of paramilitary, or the zombie invasion has kept all aspects of fashion the same except for shit haircuts and how well your cravat hides gore stains. If you’re gonna get wild with the fashion then at least give Elizabeth a leather jacket and kickass boots or something too.

How much I have a crush on Elizabeth rating: 9/10 it’s Lily James with a sword

Shoutout to: Matt Smith as Mr Collins??? He is the person having the most fun in this film, genuinely think it’s the best role I’ve seen him in and one of the most on point and fun Mr Collinses I’ve seen

OVERALL RATING: I mean, if you’re a completionist!!

Honestly this was a surprisingly fun film in parts and I enjoyed it more than I expected, but boy did the plot have some extreme limitations!! If you want to see regency women girlbossing around with swords and you’re ready to ignore the plot, go for it

[hosts-of-valyria]

Lyanna Stark, Daenerys Targaryen, Cersei Lannister, Elia Martell and Yennefer of Vengerberg vs. Robert Baratheon: An approaching death for Robert Baratheon that he doesn't see, a quick death can come with no political repercussions.

The noose tightens around Robert Baratheon's neck

Five powerful women by whom Robert Baratheon could die instantly and without repercussions. Five women who immediately recognize Robert Baratheon's monstrous character.

"I always win! Always! Always! Always! Every woman's body belongs to me! I'm a poor lord! I kill you all, cruel witch, Northern whore, dornish bitch and lion cunt", roared Robert drunk he clenched a fist and missed Cersei and Jon, Aerys, Rhaegar, Jaime and Geralt's fists hit Robert, who fell to the ground.

"You will always lose! Rhaegar gave Independence and destroyed the Iron Throne! He's a better man than you, Eddard, Jon Arryn, Tywin and many others. Rhaegar didn't need a crown, he's royal at heart, he's more royal than you, Eddard, Jon Arryn, Tywin and many others.

The whore-driver, war criminal, warmonger, dinosaur, neanderthal man, misogynist speaks. Just a relic from other days", said Rhaella, Daenerys, Rhaenys, Aerys, Ciri, Yennefer, Elia, Cersei and Lyanna. The People applauded, "death to the Storm King, we don't want him, he's a warmonger!"

"Are we done", said Robert.

"Not yet. If you think we don't have the courage to send a monster like you to its death, your instinct has been deceived. We have no qualms about sending you to your death. And we tell you something, you will die because you are not needed and and there will be no consequences", said Yennefer, Dany, Lyanna, Elia and Cersei.

Robert puked alcohol on the floor fell drunk to the floor and fell asleep in his own vomit like a pig wallowing in the dirt. Cersei and Yennefer poured wine on him, "here you have supplies. Good night MONSTER!"

Ciri kicked Robert in the shin, "are you dead? No? Too bad."

Mother and Daughter

"Yennefer is awesome, she is many things, the most powerful sorceress in all Worlds, mother to Ciri, Dany's best friend and sister, Sansa's and Rhae's sister, politically stable, knows a Game of Thrones, knows everything about power, my daughter-in-law, a strong woman.

I didn't have a mother to comfort me either. I gave Jon, Rhaenys and Aegon everything. Elia gave everything. Ashara gave everything. Rhaegar gave his children work, love, power, success in life. And what did Jon, Rhaenys and Aegon hear? Right Dragonspawn. Hedonism, violence, that's Robert Baratheon, murder, this is how the fat roller rolls through life, the toddler who is stuck at level 1, no idea of ​​farting and shitting but standing in line in the brothel. The misogynist. He's a relic of days gone by. A dinosaur. He comes from another time.

Oberyn took Jon, Rhaenys and Aegon with him when he fought pirates in Dorne. Tycho Nestoris from the Iron Bank in Braavos admires Rhaenys, Aegon and Jon and made it possible for them to receive further training in money management. He regularly invites Elia and me to dinner, he cooks for us, does the household, politics, new laws, he and Aerys build banks in the capital, health is increasing sharply, he has a sincere interest in my life and Elia's, he has one wonderful interest in Rhaenys', Aegon's and Jon's life, he gives advice on decisions and shows ways.

Rhaegar gave everything. Time and he never had time because of Robert. Rhaegar paid child support to Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, Jon and me on time every month and Rhaegar did it of his own accord because you can rely on him.

I gave Jon freedoms for self-development, self-discovery, self-realization, acceptance of this identity. I gave him the Name Stark. I taught Jon housekeeping, bookkeeping and cooking. Power. A white Wolf. Renewal. Own clean houses. Books. Politics. Love. Jobs. Money. Clothes. Rooms for training like in a studio where you do sports. I designed entire rooms for him. Armor, uniforms, swords, horses. I gave him everything what I didn't have. My mother Lyarra fucked her own cousin Rickard when my three brothers and father wanted me to marry Robert Baratheon. Elia and I were elected by the people of King's Landing for a women's movement against violent men, we are lawyers in King's Landing. Elia, Rhaegar and I renovated and rebuilt the entire Red Keep. Jon renovated his rooms, Yennefer structured her rooms.

I am politically stable, know about the flow of money and play a game of thrones, i know interior design, magic, Economy, and can archery, I'm Westerosi like Cersei, Ashara or Elia. Jon's maternal grandmother also committed incest. Rickard and Lyarra were Cousins like Tywin and Joanna. Like Cersei, I'm getting really nasty when the shit doesn't go straight. Catelyn would suck Robb's cock if she had the chance. She would suck and massage his balls, she would. She would jerk off her own son this is hypocritical shit nothing more", said Lyanna in a heavy northern accent.

Elia, Yennefer and Ashara and Cersei nodded, "Elia's mother also wanted her to marry Rhaegar. There's nothing like honor, that's hypocritical shit from Eddard!"

"Lyanna, Elia, Ashara or I are supposed to sit at home with a bag over our head while Robert is whoring around or yells orders for war crimes and he would hit us when he got home. I don't have to marry Robert he hit me several times when he saw me and Jaime. Ashara, Lyanna, Elia or I don't have to marry Robert. Catelyn would fuck Robb if she had the chance. Fuck the ugly realm, power can be found everywhere and not everything can be seen through, there are other powers at work than good and evil", said Cersei and Elia, Yennefer, Lyanna and Ashara nodded. Yennefer, Ashara, Cersei, Sansa, Rhaenys, Daenerys, Lyanna, and Elia laughed, "we're extremely nasty."

"I love your child. BLAME ROBERT, MUM! I'm sorry if I can give your child something that you cannot give him. I love you, Elia and Rhaegar."

Lyanna smiled and nodded.

Yennefer angrily tossed china, dishes and trash on the wall when Jon walked into the room. Yennefer walked past him as he pulled her to him.

A Game: Yennefer of Vengerberg vs. Cersei Lannister

For those who I like

Feminist heroines: The louder I yell to defy myself: Midnight Lady

"You think love is a game, love is a motion. Endless and so deep, always emotion. I've got many ways, to reach tomorrow. Love will always grow, no pain, no sorrow. When you take me in your arms, you can break me with your heart. I feel the magic of your charm, you're tearing me apart. Midnight lady, love takes time. Midnight lady, it's hard to find. Midnight lady, I call your name. I know you can ease my pain. Midnight lady, just you and me. Midnight lady, eternaly. Midnight lady, I can fly. In your arms I'll get high."

Best friends

Cersei smiled, "Jaime has changed so many shit diapers that he's a pro and has given Myrcella, Tommen and Joffrey so many jobs."

Ashara, Lyanna, Elia, Yennefer, Rhaenys, Sansa, and Daenerys nodded, "have you ever watched while drunk when he was changing diapers?"

Cersei nodded, "once. He was shopping in Lannisport. He pressed wine into my hand and told me to have a nice evening. And it was amazing to see how he dealt with Myrcella, Tommen and Joffrey, he read to them, put them to bed and did the whole work in Casterly Rock. The next day he slept until noon and I let him sleep. Tywin was mad that Jaime slept until noon but when he saw the polished Lannister uniforms he was mild. The next morning the Lannister forces stood in line for Tywin while Jaime slept and Tywin thanked all the gods that Rhaegar gave independence. You know what happened, Aerys and Tywin trained armies together."

Yennefer gave Cersei wine, "Before you pull down the male I would be careful who I offend or where you have never been. Rhaegar didn't want you, that doesn't need any explanation. I am not being told that romance is wrong and I have no weakness for romance either. Jon's a good man already, and it wasn't Eddard, you know that Cersei, that was Jeor Mormont and Gerold Hightower, and Rhaegar is a better father and man than Ned and Eddard calls Jon son too, you know that Cersei.

There are men like Doran, Tywin, Rhaegar, Barristan, Arthur, Aerys, Jeor Mormont or Gerold Hightower, knowing that work is important and that new jobs have to be created because continents have potential, because we need big Stories.

Yes, I have a thing for white wolves like Daenerys; and that doesn't mean that we're romantic right away and Robb and Aegon are better men than Robert Baratheon and Jon Arryn.

You had sex with Jaime when you two were teenagers so you have feelings for him and you murdered. A job is a job, Cersei. You are Queen of Casterly Rock then you have to create more jobs for your beloved Jaime. Always a Lannister in the Westerlands.

I have jobs for Jon. Be careful, miss, I'm older than you and I love Jon. Do you want to be out of work? No. These are still cruel worlds, you know that Cersei. Nothing is beautiful in these worlds, nothing at all, it's pig shit. I am not your enemy, we all have our own opinions but the cruel world remains. We all have arguments with each other, but that is not a reason for war. And Jon has shown me several times that I was wrong and it's cool that I was wrong too. Making mistakes is human. When I want sarcasm, I talk to kids. I am not omniscient and do not want to be. I am shit sometimes. Power is not automatically power. Truth is power. I was created through power.

There is an extremely fine line we talk about between hypocritical honor and the desire to change something in cruel worlds because we need big stories", said Yennefer. Ashara, Cersei, Sansa, Lyanna, Elia, Cersei, Rhaenys and Daenerys nodded.

Cersei nodded, "Even Randyll Tarly asked Sam if he wanted to go to the wall for some time to help Aemon Targaryen, Randyll sent good steel and stone to the wall, that's cool and worth a lot. It can be rebelled even without weapons, I know. Robert is a whore-driver, war criminal, dinosaur, Neanderthal man, misogynist, a relic from other days, you know that Yennefer. Fear and Blood, his cruel words", Yennefer nodded, "the aggressor. I heard his cruel words, Fear and Blood keep the Stormlands in line. I have no qualms about sending a man like him to his death."

Cersei nodded.

"Geralt is already a good man. Arthur and Barristan trained him further", said Dany and agreed with Yennefer.

Cersei nodded, "maybe a fine line between honor and romance. Look more closely."

[makerkenzie]

A Song of Bizarre Assumptions

Do I have any more commentary on the Martells’ scheme to hitch their wagon to the new dragons? I do have this, tonight: why does Oberyn bring up Sansa just before his fight with the Mountain?

It’s one of those things that feels especially pointed when Oberyn brings up Sansa. Indeed, what does he have in mind?

Tyrion assumes Oberyn wants Sansa to declare for Myrcella and thus turn the North against the Lannister regime. And...maybe that’s a mid-point in the plan, but what Tyrion doesn’t know is that the Martells aren’t betting the castle on Queen Myrcella. They’re betting the castle on the Targaryens.

So to that end, what interest do the Martells have in Sansa?

I’m thinking they want the North to declare for the new dragon. Which, yeah, it would be handy to have the North on their side in a regime change. Meanwhile, Oberyn probably assumes Sansa would be too happy to join in with the Martells’ campaign of vengeance against the Lannisters.

I can see how someone who’s hardly interacted with Sansa would assume that. We know the Lannisters have driven a wrecking ball through her family. Honestly, would she have nightmares over Cersei’s head on a pike? I doubt it very much. 

However? I don’t think Sansa would be interested in supporting Queen Myrcella over Tommen, no matter how hard it would fuck Cersei’s shit up. She knows Tommen’s a nice kid and she knows a regime change means another round of war. 

Meanwhile, the Targaryens also drove a wrecking ball through the Starks. I don’t think Sansa’s interested in punishing her enemies nearly as much as she’s interested in salvaging her own family. On that front, the Targs are a hard sell, at best. 

The really funny part, though, is that Tyrion doesn’t know where the fuck Sansa is, and he also doesn’t know that his own family are seeking to rescue her out from under Cersei. Lady Brienne is assisted by Tyrion’s own squire and carrying a ruby-and-gold sword given to her by Tyrion’s brother, and now Jaime himself has deserted his army to join the rescue mission. And...I suspect they’ll be successful, eventually. Brienne’s general arc is bending in the direction of making it work. Yeah, I think they’ll get Sansa under their protection. 

I just think it’s funny that Oberyn seems to think Sansa would want to help him get revenge on the Lannisters, and the Lannisters are going to rescue Sansa from the Lannisters. I have a juvenile sense of humor.