Five Ways SentiAdrien is a Retcon
Adrien’s a sentimonster now, but he wasn’t always. Here’s a list of things that wouldn’t have happened if Adrien was a sentimonster:
Chat Blanc
Epehemeral shows us what happens in a world where Gabriel Agreste learns his sentison’s identity. Chat Blanc shows us what happens in a world where Gabriel Agreste learns his human son’s identity. If Adrien was a sentimonster in season 3, then Chat Blanc would have ended with Gabriel winning just like he did in Ephemeral. But it doesn’t because season 3 Adrien was a real boy.
Gorizilla
Nooroo: Master, you don't really think Adrien could be Cat Noir?
Gabriel: I don't know. But he's hiding something for sure. Since his bodyguard has failed to keep an eye on Adrien, there's only one way for us to uncover his secret.
Yeah, put on one of the slave collars and say, “Adrien, tell me what you’re hiding from me?” Problem solved! Except Adrien wasn’t a sentimonster yet, so Gabe had to use an akuma instead.
Felix
As of season 4, Felix and Amilie know that the Agrete’s wedding rings are amoks, so why were they so obsessed with getting their hands on them back in season 3? What were they planning to do with Adrien? Why did Amilie think that was a reasonable request? There’s no way that she’d hand over her son’s ring! Easy answer: the twins cousins weren’t sentimonster yet and the rings weren’t that special. That’s why that plot goes nowhere and why Felix’s actions don’t match his actions after they decided that the boys were sentimonsters.
Origins
Adrien keeps sneaking out of the house to go to school and Gabe just yells at him, never using the slave collars. Plausible, I guess, but still hard to buy given how controlling he is. Why wouldn’t he use one of the rings? He already doesn’t care what Adrien wants and Gabe does not get meaningfully more controlling as the show goes on (it’s part of why season 5 completely fails to make him feel worse in my book).
Miracular
Cataclysms drive Sentimonsters insane, but kill humans, so Chat Noir probably should have gone insane here. Along similar lines, the fact that akuma powers work on him like a normal human is super weird because Adrien isn’t a true human. Can he break his bones? Does he even need to transform to fight? Do all sentimonsters have the ability to use miraculous? I have questions that this show will never answer because the answers don’t exist. That would require competent, well-thought-out lore.
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BNHA Ch. 429
So, I guess Toga is dead, and people are losing it.
I get why people liked her--she was actually queer, being pan/bisexual. She was representation for them and that's rare in shonen manga.
But here's the thing--she was bad representation at best and insulting at worst. Nor do I think she was made queer because Hori really wanted to represent a queer girl. Himiko was always the author's poorly hidden fetish--she just was. She liked girls as much as boys because Hori wanted to draw a girl touching sexually on another girl. You can see this in how he draws her and Ochako in solo pics together.
I mean, people seem to understand this when it comes to Momo and her outfit being overly sexual or that both Himiko and Hagakure's Quirks either leave them naked or they have to be naked to use them. These are excuses to draw girls in a sexual manner. Himiko being into other girls is the same thing and that's the kindest interpretation.
Given how Himiko acts and her Quirk being heavily coded sexual desire, and therefore her use of it against someone unwilling being sexual assault, it could just being playing into harmful stereotypes of predatory gays.
As a queer person myself I just found Toga insulting. She was designed to be overly sexual and give the male author a female character that he could draw being suggestive with his other female characters. When he did flesh out her character, her backstory was eventually the trope/fear of straight people, that gay people will be so overcome with their lust that they end up sexually assaulting them.
In the end Ochako accepts this part of Toga and says she'll giver her blood forever, but as much as a lot of readers took that that as some deep lesbian confession, for me it really fell flat. Hori never really gave any of the main kids time to actually learn about their villain or show how that changed their minds toward them. Shoto only works because Touya is his brother (even though he admits he barely remembers him). But Ochako goes from not thinking of Toga at all pre-first war, to one thought about her during her speech, to suddenly caring about her so much she--given how Toga's quirk is coded, is willing to essentially fulfill Toga's kink for the rest of their lives.
It's weird and it comes out of nowhere. It's made even stranger because Toga doesn't actually change or show remorse for anything she did, which included personally hunting and murdering people before she joined the LOV. None of the death and destruction she is also partially responsible for is brought up either, something that Ochako was rightfully upset about during the first war when less people and property had been destroyed. Ochako just accepts everything about her suddenly and her past serious crimes are forgotten so they can cuddle and cry.
Am I shocked Toga died--a little. I didn't think Hori would have the guts to kill off a young girl character, especially one that he clearly got a lot of joy drawing in sexy poses. But at the same time, once he killed off Shigaraki and ended Touya's story with his slow death, I'm not surprised he went the same route with Toga.
This isn't Naruto--Hori isn't really kind to characters that do something wrong, especially if they don't try and change. Enji, Bakugo, Hawks, and Aoyama all sort of got punished for what they did. Enji is the worst off, being permanently crippled, missing an arm and burned everywhere. Bakugo's hand is damaged, his heart weaker, plus he feels bad that Izuku lost his Quirk so they can't compete the same way he wanted them to. Aoyama, despite doing way less wrong and even helping his class during the forest raid, still leaves school because he doesn't feel he earned being there yet. Hawks lost his Quirk and even though him running the HPSC could be seen as good for him, Hawks always wanted a break, but now he has one of the most time consuming and stressful jobs out there.
So, if this is what characters who actively did good things and even changed and fought to be better get, what would characters who never changed and never did anything positive for anyone but their friends/themselves get?
Before the last Arc started, when so many people said the LoV were 100% going to be redeemed I had doubts and always thought it wouldn't make sense with how the story presented redemption or treated other non-LoV villains in the past. That if the main LoV did get some happy ending where they were bffs with the main cast it would clash with how other characters had been treated.
That doesn't mean that I think how Shigaraki, Toga, and Touya ended up in the manga was well done. I think their endings fit far better then a last minute redemption would have, but at the same time you can feel how rushed everything has been since the end of the first war arc. Hori was done with this story months if not years ago, yet he was contractually obligated to finish it. Because of that I think he left out as much as possible. As much as I think he's written some pretty obsessive stuff, particularly towards women, I can't really fully blame him cutting corners or the story being shit at the end.
We know Manga authors, particularly those that work with Jump are treated like shit. That they suffer incredibly long hours at times not even getting to go home for days. We've gotten messages for Hori saying he's sick quite a few times. On top of that, weekly story telling is not a great way to tell a cohesive narrative. Ideas probably change week to week or at least month to month and you can't go back and change the last chapter no matter how much you need or want to. Then you remember he also gave a lot of ideas to the people who made the movies, which would also change his plans for how he wanted the main story to go.
The story is bad--it has been for a while, but I think a lot of people put their hopes on their favorite characters getting a happy ending, even when there were signs that probably wasn't going to be the case. I know how much it sucks when a character you love gets a shitty ending (Stain was my fav, but he got an absolute dogshit ending) but at least, knowing what I know about the industry I can't really blame Hori the way I see some other people doing. Criticize it, sure, but saying Hori hates his readers or is horrible writer isn't true. BNHA was popular for a reason--he's great with characters and the beginning of the story had some great pacing. We'll never know, but I wouldn't be surprised if BNHA could have been amazing if Hori had been treated better and the story hadn't needed a chapter every week.
If anything BNHA has taught me how much a story suffers when authors/artists are treated like crap and forced to work past burnout.
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hey! do you have any thoughts on demise as a looser/more fluid/symbolic/metaphorical figure in the context of the story of the series- like thoughts on what he represents, and stuff like what his curse could mean thematically rather than the more essentialistic absolutistic "literal satan" interpretation that most of the (at least western) audience seems to take?
i know he may be somewhat contentious as a choice introduced by the writers especially considering from an outside perspective what he kind of did to the majority of fandom analysis and discourse, but i've been thinking about how it's quite possible the writers had a more paganistic approach to what it means to be a deity and how demise doesn't even really have a NAME so much as he is supposed to be some sort of manifestation/personification of the concept of demise, and maybe also of hatred, and also i don't know, like, what the point of that hatred is or why there has to be demise/what implications there could be of this worldbuilding
hope that was coherent enough to make sense of anything i just said but yeah i was just curious if you do!
Heyy sorry never replied, replying now!! Thanks for the ask!
Yeah it's exactly how I'm taking Demise, and I think what you mention connects more to what little I know and understand of shintoism.
In French, Demise has an absurdly long name and is basically called "The Avatar of the Void", which I think is... interesting? It makes me extremely curious as to how Demise is called in original japanese --because to me, "Void" is about the absence of things more than their destruction. It's about the absence, not the inevitability of things crumbling down that comes with Demise. I don't know which of these concepts are the closest to the original vision (if it's Void rather than Demise I think it recontextualizes everything we thought we know about this world and characters, but in my opinion it feels too incoherent with the rest of the world, so my guess is that it was a poorly thought-out translation --but I might be wrong!), but to me it's all in the title: Demise. The curse is that every golden era must end with a reckoning.
I think the curse is extremely compelling in that mythological sense, the way Demeter and Persephone's tale is about the joy and pain of passing seasons; it's the given cause for this world's fate as it is condemned to rise and die continuously; and that their eternal, bright future will always be opposed. To be honest, I'm not even sure it's a *bad* thing. Conflict is not only inevitable, it needs to rise to the surface instead of being suppressed to ensure things do not remain stagnant and shortcomings are being acknowledged and addressed --which is also partially why the suggestion of TotK's golden forever after really doesn't sit right with me, especially since nothing was learned and nothing truly changed in the course of its runtime.
I think the curse sucks when people think it means that Ganondorf is a generic evil demon man without motive of his own. It especially grinds my nerves since I somehow never hear this argument being made for *any* other villain in the franchise. I know they look alike the most (and TotK didn't help matters here), but I never *ever* saw people arguing that Vaati doesn't have motive, for example. Or Majora. Or Zant. Or even literal nothing characters like Bellum, who by all means looks more like a primal demonic evil acting on instinct than anyone else. Somehow, we get to assume they have internal motives that, while obviously wicked and self-serving, are their own! But somehow, Ganondorf, the actual main antagonist of his series with the most amount of games hinting at his backstory and internal moral code, gets flattened as an evil puppet with no internal life whatsoever. It's genuinely bizarre.
Anyway sorry sorry! Thanks again for the ask!
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lets talk about will's journey through hannibals mind palace in s3a, the myth of theseus, the minotaur, ariadne’s thread, labyrinths, and mazes (there is a tldr at the end of this! and this gets better & more cohesive towards the end i promise lol esp after the uffizi gallery screenshot)
background on theseus: theseus sailed to crete intending to defeat the minotaur, a beast housed by the labyrinth constructed by daedalus. it was constructed so well, daedalus himself could not navigate it. ariadne was the daughter of king minos, who ordered the entrapment of the minotaur. she fell in love with theseus, and,betraying her father and her country, she gave theseus a thread to tie one end at the entrance of the labyrinth, and carry the rest with him, so he could find his way back out. theseus succeeded in killing the minotaur and returned safely.
will graham sails to italy as theseus sailed to crete, and enters the labyrinth of hannibal lecter's mind palace at the norman chapel in palermo, italy. the imagery of the many consecutive doorways and disorienting paths in the catacombs under the chapel is notably labyrinthine, and is actually what made me think of this connection in the first place.
*note the consecutive doorways/arches. this parallels the shot of will and hannibal in front of la primavera. in that shot, there are also many doorways behind them.
hannibal is simultaneously
daedalus, the maker of the labyrinth,
the minotaur, the beast at the center, and,
partly, ariadne, the one who betrays her father and her country, falls in love with theseus and allows him to navigate the labyrinth (i.e. the heart in the norman chapel is what confirms to will that he is going in the right direction). just as ariadne's love of theseus was a betrayal of her country and her father, hannibal's love of will is a betrayal of himself.
perhaps hannibal as daedalus-minotaur-ariadne represents the many contradictory parts of hannibal: the person suit containing the monster (daedalus), the monster (minotaur), and lover (ariadne).
but ariadne, the symbol of love, could also be more accurately represented by both will and hannibal: their connection, and its portrayal through will's hallucinations:
the ravenstag which leads will on the train tracks after chiyoh pushes him off
the blood puddle under the doors to the norman chapel catacombs
the fireflies that lead him to mischa's grave
& more
this thread of connection that leads will through the labyrinth of hannibal's mind is universally present throughout season 3a. it is not the physical actions of a lover that lead will through the labyrinth like ariadne did for theseus, but instead the undertanding derived from love of the labyrinth-maker himself which allows will to navigate the labyrinth.
if the entrance ("foyer") to hannibal's labyrinthine mind palace is the norman chapel, the center is his home in lithuania, as will's imagined hannibal says while he is in the lithuanian forest in secondo 3x03:
"is this where construction began?"
"on my memory palace? its door at the center of my mind. and here you are, feeling for the latch."
perhaps the center of hannibal's memory palace is actually hannibal's home and what happened there. "mazes intended to be more or less impenetrable have a center containing something so valuable or so shameful as to warrant protection" (x pg. 91) — hannibal's labyrinthine mind palace was constructed outward to protect something at his origin, at the center of his mind: mischa.
will's last stop in hannibal's labyrinth, and perhaps the exit, is where he finds hannibal in front of la primavera, once again in italy. the long hall of consecutive doorways in the center of the screen, which mirrors the doorways in the catacombs during will's 'entrance' into hannibal's mind palace, gives a sense of some long journey coming to an end. he tells hannibal "i wanted to understand you before i laid eyes on you again. i needed it to be clear what i was seeing," plainly stating his reason for his journey through the labyrinth — understanding.
*note the consecutive doorways in the center, which parallel the arches in the aforementioned shot of will entering the catacombs in secondo
as explained by penelope reed doob, the purpose of a labyrinth can be to…
"…to entrap or enlighten errant mazewalkers, denying or controlling access to a center that may contain good or evil, and leaving the maze-walker with higher knowledge or in chaotic limbo" (x pg. 64)
certainly, will's journey through hannibal's labyrinth was, as doob calls it, "the labyrinth as a sign of difficult progress." as a plot device, will's journey through europe, hannibal's labyrinth, the mind palace, was a path designed to lead to will gaining higher knowledge, and the "transcendence of labyrinthine confusion" (x pg. 91)
right?
but, even after will's journey, we as the audience, will as a character, and even hannibal himself, remain confused, turned around, and unable to see any end in sight, especially after both of their failed attempts at separation.
we are still in the labyrinth.
"labyrinths, like life, involve chaos and order, destiny and free choice, terror and triumph — all held in balance, all perspective-dependent" (x pg. 252)
church labyrinths as a metaphor for life in particular emphasize a unicursal design, or there being only one true path — that of christ, who can act as a guide for humanity "to discover that the mythically multicursal and unstable labyrinth — of life, of the world, of hell — is in fact unicursal, stable, and extricable" (x pg. 133)
instead of this, nbc's hannibal purposefully emphasizes the multicursal and inextricable nature of life and the world through the use of a seemingly chaotic, and sometimes absurd, plot. there are so, so, so many paths will can (and does) follow in the labyrinth/maze of his life. but none are emphasized as the correct one. because that does not exist. everything becomes a matter of perspective, and even looking at the maze from the outside, one becomes disoriented.
thus, this gives even the viewer a sense that they are wandering through the labyrinth with will.
"The only pattern we are shown is the pattern of the labyrinth...all progress is illusory: we may think we are getting somewhere new, but really we are retreading old patterns, circling and turning and retracing our steps until suddenly we exit right where we entered, with an echoing line or repeated pattern, and not once only but time and again" (x pg. 336)
just as doob says of chaucer's the house of fame, nbc's hannibal as a whole "reconstructs, rather than transcends, the complexity of the many labyrinths in which we live and write — labyrinths we cannot, and perhaps do not even wish to, escape" (x pg 339)
the plot of hannibal has been criticized for being too absurd or chaotic, but the absurdity is the show's essence. it is a tool of emphasis to remind us of the fact that hannibal, will, bedelia, jack, abigail, alana, margot, are — everyone is — making their way through the inferno, wandering through the labyrinth, unable to see the forest for the trees, just as we are.
"there is no overview of the labyrinth, at least not in this life, and nothing is clear but the uncertainties of the ambiguous maze above whose constraints we cannot rise. believing all this, some men might despair, but…if these be labyrinths, they are enchanting ones, as full of delight as of frustration…nightmarish as it may be, is colorful, energetic, chock-full of magnificent diversity, far more beguiling than cosmic spheres. it cries out for the shaping mind and voice of the poet to give order and perspective where none exists. if that shaping is no more reliable than its material, so be it: perhaps a well-wrought poem in such a world is all the more admirable, and much more fun. the confusions and errors of the maze may be as attractive as the transcendent view. and if truth is always deferred, redefined by another twist, a fresh perspective, a different viewer, so what?" (x pg. 337)
tldr: will's journey through europe, exploring hannibal's memory palace is comparable to theseus' exploration of the labyrinth in search of the minotaur. hannibal is simultaneously daedalus (the labyrinth's creator), his person suit, the minotaur, his monster, and ariadne, a lover who allows theseus to not get lost in the labyrinth. the ravenstag and hannibal and will's psychological connection and deep understanding of e/o could also be compared to ariadne's thread. the center of a labyrinth is commonly something that is protected; hannibal says his home is at the center of his mind — hannibal's mind palace protects mischa at the center. even when will leaves the labyrinth and finds hannibal, there is not much higher knowledge gained from the journey, as would be expected. that is because we are still in the labyrinth, such is life. the absurdity and chaos of the hannibal plot, the repeating themes, plotlines, and endless parallels exacerbate this point, and emphasizes the inextricability of life, and the fact that there is no one correct path in the winding maze of life.
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