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antimisinfo · 16 days

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as someone who has maladaptive daydreaming disorder this pisses me off so FUCKING BAD. im too shakey to type much less read this fully but oh my fucking god. oh my god. what the FUCK. how fucking DARE this person take MY DISORDER and twist it to conform to their DISGUSTING ABLEIST BELIEFS?? im reFUCKINGvolted

https://www.tumblr.com/alyssasmaddworld/741046067507904512/theres-this-level-of-dissociation-that-goes-hand?source=share

i- this post is a lot, but i'll try deconstruct each point here.. i'll be focusing on points that i can debate here / can disprove or try to disprove here because otherwise this will be a really long post,, longer than it already is. also i'll be referring to maladaptive daydreaming as MD for simplicity's sake. if i get any information on MD wrong please let me know as i do not have this disorder(?) nor do i know much about it outside of the research done for this post.

the source linked here does say that it is a dissociative disorder and it does say that it might not be caused purely by trauma " Although trauma may be one causal factor, we indicate several other etiological pathways to the development of MD. We discuss associations with related concepts and suggest directions for future research " so there isn't much for me to say here other than the part about plurality, but we'll go more into depth on that below.

this.. the source they used is pluralpedia.. which used the source of a tumblr blog.. so lets get into this. the first source also mentions maladaptive characters / MD characters but it also says that it is not like DID " We discuss and exemplify with clinical vignettes the shared phenomenological characteristics between MD and dissociative phenomena, such as double consciousness, vivid visual imagery, and the creation of internally narrated characters. MD characters can be experienced as somewhat independently-agentic, although unlike dissociative identity disorder (DID), they typically do not take control over the daydreamer’s behavior "

so lets look into MD characters, shall we? the only source i can find on MD characters ((other than the one they linked / tumblr posts)) consider them more of a form/type of daydreaming (experiencing the daydream as yourself or as a character, daydreaming about a character, ect). these characters are not at all similar to alters and the "closest" i found was the foreign character

" For those who heavily engage in maladaptive daydreaming, they often will begin to develop "The Foreign Character" type of maladaptive daydreaming. In this type, you daydream about a central character who you believe is yourself, but who is fundamentally different in almost all respects. " — maladaptivedaydreaming.org

however these are not at all similar to alters which are

" two or more separate identities called “alters.” They control your behavior at various times. Each alter has its own personal history, traits, likes, and dislikes " — WebMD

the same source on foreign characters also states that " The reality is that for most people, they engage in these kinds of daydreams because they want to daydream about things entirely devoid from themselves and their real world experience. They don't want to daydream about themselves being a doctor or being better looking (to use the prior examples I used), but instead they want to dream about themselves being entirely different people so they can escape from who they really are. ". other than that source there is very little evidence on these characters being separate identities, even then it's important to keep in mind that it is not the same as having a split identity as it only appears during daydreams i would assume and would not be able to control you, how you think, how you behave, ect. ((which the first source literally said,, do endos even read their sources??)) i would also like to add that if these characters feel real and you believe all your daydreams to be real then it might actually be a delusion. there's nothing wrong with having delusions but it is also important to recognise that it's not real and that it does not at all compare to being a system.

the first source they used to claim that having MD is the same as being plural is a pro endo source, it defines being plural as " The most simplified definition of the term plural that includes all people who take the label is “someone who shares the same physical body with other individuals.” Such a group is sometimes referred to as a system, though many plural groups use different terminology. " which,, again having daydreams are is not the same as having separate identities, so really this source means nothing.. and the second source is.. just insane really. its a study done on the experiences of those with multiple identities. they did two things, one was an online survey that had 200-300 results and then 6 interviews.. which is definitely not enough evidence, since they cannot know if people are lying on those online surveys and 6 people are not enough to make it a reliable source. but lets focus on the part they pointed out, which was:

" Empirical measurement of multiplicity is sparse. The first inventory published in the field was the Plural Self Scale (Altrocchi, 1999), which assesses the structure of the personality. High scores indicate that thoughts and feelings are different through time and situations. The other inventory to assess multiplicity was developed by Carter (2008) and consists of 20 items, such as “Does your handwriting change noticeably at different times?” or “Do you swing suddenly from one mood to another for no apparent reason?.” However, these scales measure the integrity of the self and rely on the assumption that there is a “you” or “I” who is able to self-reflect. Individuals who consider themselves multiple refer to themselves as a group of selves (“we”). Thus, questionnaires that assess the extent of self-integration fail to assess the experience of individuals who claim to have multiple selves who all have different thoughts, feelings, motivations, and levels of complexity. " which-- just isn't much of a criteria other than the questions, of which are "does your handwriting change at different times" and " do you swing from one mood to another with no apparent reason", but it literally says this fails to asses those who claim to be plural-- so i don't see what their point was here really. it just seems like they're saying words for the sake of saying words.

i don't think this person realises what closed culture is.. tulpulmacy is not a form of being plural nor should it be considered that, thoughtforms are usually used purely for meditation or for your spiritual journey, not for fun,, unlike "tupla systems" which are often not even Buddhists, which is the main issue. a closed practise, which is what tulpulmacy is, is a "practice in which you can only take part in their craft if you were specifically born into the practice, or went through an initiation process.". while i'm not 100% sure what exactly they mean with the last part there isn't much for me to say here other than the fact that tulpulmacy is not the same as being plural and we did have a former Buddhist actually talk to us about this here! and while it isn't exactly sourced i feel its still an important read.

i believe they're speaking about the word plural here,, which wasn't made by endos?? the word plural just refers to more then one. unless they mean traumagenic?? which then confuses me because their source doesn't really mention it--

culture is dynamic yes, but some cultures are closed and it's important to understand that-- just because the culture is shifting doesn't mean you can steal closed practises.

"endogenic sphere" makes me shiver but okay, lets talk about this too. there isn't a lot of research on MD, so i cannot say what the direct cause is. "Experts don’t know exactly why maladaptive daydreaming happens. However, they suspect it happens because maladaptive daydreaming can be a coping mechanism for problems like anxiety, depression and other mental health conditions."

no?? what?? as i said above, many times, having MD is not the same as having DID / being a system and also the image only refers to feeling disconnected from the body and sense of identity which is pretty common with dissociation and doesn't exactly prove anything related to endogenic systems..

i- ?? i mean as i said before we don't know what exactly causes MD but i don't believe people chose to do this?? not really??

" maladaptive daydreaming is often compulsive, which means a person feels like they need to do it. Because the need to daydream is similar to an addiction, daydreaming more often can make it a strong habit, so it’s very hard to stop doing it. That’s why seeking mental healthcare for it sooner rather than later is important. "

but all being said, its not a vaild form of plurality because its nothing like having separate identities?? sure when daydreaming you might identify as a different person but you're still you. your overall identity is intact and i'm pretty sure most people with MD do not think their daydreams are real, i believe that would be a delusion instead of a daydream-- and an important separation is these characters would only show up in daydreams i assume, while alters are always there, infact in DID you yourself is an alter but in MD one of you is a person and the other is a character created through daydreams,, which is not comparable to genuine parts / alters. ((also please do not harass the person who made the original post, our post / response is purely meant to educate and correct misinformation and we do not intend for people to go to the op's blog and send them things))

#sourced #kind of sourced #requested info #answered asks #anti endo #endos dni #system #did osdd #osddid #plural #system stuff #did #traumagenic system

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