#liam discourse

[statementlou]

It's okay to still care about someone who has done something bad, it's good even! We SHOULD care about other people and not throw them away when they struggle! But creating a space where people think that if they acknowledge that harm was done they have to force themselves to not care just leads to denial because people don't want to take that drastic step, WHICH IS REALLY HARMFUL. Acknowledging that someone has done harm and is not themselves doing okay does not mean you have to stop caring and feel bad that you ever did or pretend they don't exist anymore: BUT DENYING THAT THEY DID ANYTHING BAD DOES CAUSE HARM. Saying victims are lying or attention seeking for talking about their experiences shows other victims what they can expect if they try to speak and leads to people staying in dangerous situations. Saying that someone who is charming and soft hearted could not also lash out and hurt or traumatize someone puts people in real danger if they believe that. Thinking that all addicts are Bad rather than it just being a struggle lots of people have leads to harm when you refuse to recognize the signs of addiction in yourself or people close to you because you think that's something for some other kind of people.

People do things that hurt other people all of the time, every one of us has at some point and will again. With compassion and help most people can and want to do better; but telling them that they are fine and don't need to change OR telling them that they are beyond help and worthless both do exactly the same thing, which is to discourage any change at all. It's not possible for us to fix Liam as much as we may wish we could: but it is an opportunity to practice for when someone in our life is an addict and /or hurts someone. And when that happens AS IT WILL TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US I hope that people can find a way to find that space that is neither throwing struggling people away nor enabling their behavior.

[tmf-confessions]

throwing my two cents in on the liam misogyny argument and praying i dont get torn to tiny shreds.

liam can say things that are rooted in misogyny and not be a misogynist. i personally dont think he views women as objects, he just makes jokes that are in poor taste.

that i dont think he realizes are in poor taste because hes a teenage boy and these jokes are so incredibly common in middle school and highschool amongst boys.

while these types of jokes are, as i said, in poor taste i dont think theyre an indicator to how he really feels about women. obviously i could be wrong. but i dont think i am.

i could see liam going through a micro-arc similar to sokka in the last airbender. i say "micro-arc" because im not sure we have time in the series to focus on fully killing liams potential and debateable sexism.

but i dont think thats where the show is going. and i dont think the show is intending to portray him a sexist, as i said.

sincerely lowercase-typer anon (i want a cool nickname to)

confession #1038

[burr-ell]

idk man i think it's telling that two months after the c3 finale, most fans who came in with c1 or c2 are, at their kindest, just enjoying the ride but still saying they hope c4 does [thing c1 and c2 did that c3 did not], and meanwhile fans who loudly defend c3 and bell's hells have been complaining about divergence and wildemount wildlings and ignoring everything else cr is doing because it's not a spigot producing their desired blorbo content

[zwoftt]

people being mad and hating c3: me in the corner liking c3 because of how relatable dorian storm is as a character to me personally and being very invested in dorym:

[swordscleric]

What is it about Orym that makes a certain subsection of the fandom lose their goddamn minds! The Wildmother is not manipulating him by showing him his dead husband like lads (gender neutral) cop the fuck on

[luckthebard]

I should know better than to go on CR twitter but I just read someone in all seriousness complain about Orym “pulling the dead family card” without any seeming awareness of how callous of a thought that is

And I just desperately want some of these people to take a giant step back and try to exercise some curiosity about different explorations of life experiences and emotional truths instead of resorting to downplaying or dismissing ideas that are difficult or uncomfortable.

[savebylou]

Being in the fandom.

Lately I have struggle a bit with being in the fandom, sometimes when things happened in the fandom that cause a lot of reactions it can be a bit overwhelming seeing so many opinions, especially the negative ones. Before it was easy for me to just ignore opinions I disagree with, but lately that has been hard for me to do.

I have take breaks from the dash and that has help but I think this will keep happening and I need to find ways to dealing with this besides the breaks.

I saw this tweet and it make me realise that regardless of the fandom drama that happens at any time in the future, the worst thing already happened, my worst fear of the fandom became a reality, we lost Liam. A member of the band is not with us anymore and we will have to deal with this reality for the rest of our lives. Nothing in the fandom for me will be as painful as losing one of the boys.

So I will try to remind myself that to not let fandom discourse affect me. Sharing this in case it helps somone that is struggling with the same.

I will keep trying to be kind, I will keep supporting the boys and wish them the best and when I need breaks from the fandom I will take them.

Fandom is to enjoy it, do whatever is best for you, curate your experience, follow the people that you want, filter tags to not see the content you don't want, take care, wish you all the best.

[utilitycaster]

I am not really personally wishcasting for Campaign 4 until it is confirmed to be a thing in the first place, and should it be confirmed, I think I'll still hold off on anything public until we know the system and perhaps a bit about the setting. With that said it is very funny that like 90% of what I've seen out there really is like. Describing Campaign 2.

[takemetomybrothersarms]

*slams hands on the table* LISTEN. Noel is a dom but a bottom and Liam is a sub but a top.

[statementlou]

Tbh i am not surprised that a person who openly talked about having drinking problems since 1d days, because of how crazy 1d worked has been agressive. What surprises me is people being surprised (they never seriously saw drunk person?). But i am also confused about this whole book. Apparently Maya said that that book is not fully bout Liam but compilation about her exes and some of the worst parts are not about him. But recently she said that the book is “ofc about him” so what is true then? Or did she meant it that ofc some parts are about him or that whole book is about him?

Sorry, just confused

I also am not surprised- we've learned so much more about the real stories of things and about the guys' actual lives over the last years, and the story that has unfolded around Liam has been totally consistent throughout if you've been following it, and so the information Maya is telling us is shocking and upsetting but not difficult to believe. I got an anon yesterday saying they were worried about getting similar revelations about the other boys, like "if Liam could be doing this we just don't know, any of them could", and while in a way that's always true I guess, anyone could be doing anything in private like... that doesn't really concern me. Because none of these Liam revelations are coming out of nowhere, there have been many MANY steps along the way leading us here if you've been watching, and he has talked openly about both his mental health struggles and his addiction issues. So to answer that anon... to find out something similar about Louis would in contrast contradict everything we know about him and no I'm not worried about it. Is he an abuser or a loose cannon, well that news would truly shock me to my core, I will be honest. But anyway as for the book I don't find it strange that she was nervous when it came out and treading lightly and later decided, fuck it. In the absolutely on point tiktok she dropped today (YES👏GIRL👏FUCKING TELL THEM👏) she even mentions attempts to keep her from publishing the book, presumably by Liam's team, that I am riveted by and cannot WAIT to hear more details about actually- like I said I don't find it at all strange that she was nervous and downplayed it a bit then. But if she says now that it's just about Liam, well, I would say it's been clear from the beginning that the book is their story. Maya herself brought up the parallel of songs being written about stuff and I think it's the same thing; it's true (she was in an abusive relationship that involved certain kinds of events) but maybe not 100% literal (I'm sure details were changed to make the story work, it's not like a word for word timeline of their interactions or whatever).

[tmf-confessions]

not a confession but I'm sick of the Liam discourse can we ban it

idk it hasn't died down yet jaskdjskdjaskd

[burr-ell]

love that matt saw people woobifying the vanguard and went "the people who started the campaign on murder? lol anyway their besties suck ass too"

[imperial-cat]

I slowly understand now why nothing made sense in c3, it's probably because the sole purpose of this campaign was that the cast never got over Vax and looked for a story to give him a "happy end".

[wavebiders]

For what it's worth I do understand how much it sucks when a CR character's arc doesn't end up being what you imagined. This is an incredibly longform show and sometimes you've spent years investing in a story before you realize that it's not at all what you were looking for.

I've been there with Orym. There was a long time where I had incredibly high hopes for a compelling deconstruction of the whole straight man good soldier boy thing. I was incredibly bummed out when I realized Liam didn't intend for any of that.

You do need to accept it, though. I don't hyperfocus on Orym every week and whine about how his story isn't working. I just acknowledge this particular character isn't interesting to me and that I at times find Liam's choices frustrating and then move on.

You can be sad Imogen's story isn't about accepting that her mom is evil and killing her or whatever, but that ship has long sailed. This is the direction Laura has chosen to take her character and you are under no obligation to like it, but at a certain point you're just gonna have to let go of the arc you wish you had gotten.

[savebylou]

while i agree with it partially, it is also a cop out.

sure fandom drama is meaningless, but liam's mental health was equally affected by fandom bullying.

and people have been taking it so far with louis lately.

do you really think louis is so unreal to people that he wont be affected by anythign ever? or are larries waiting for him to be lost before they realize their mistakes?

giving up and not even making an effort to give a countervoice to bullying and harassment is a cop out.

https://www.tumblr.com/savebylou/785618154157162496

Hi anon, you are incorporating words or topics that I didn't mention (that I will answer later) but to be clear the reason of my post was to talk about my experience in the fandom, how that affected my mental health and my actions in the future handling how I navigate the fandom and sharing that in case it helps someone else.

You said "sure fandom drama is meaningless, but liam's mental health was equally affected by fandom bullying."

I think some fandom reactions can cause an impact, that is one of the reasons why it has affect me and I have take a break for a bit with the dash. What I meant with my post is how I will react in the future so it doesn't affect me, bacause I need to protect my mental health if I still want to be in the fandom.

I think with Liam was a combination of fandom hate and general public hate. There were people who weren't fans that send him hate every time they could. Is like some people wanted him to break him. It will live rent free in my mind what his sister Ruth said to Liam after he passed away: “I don't feel this world was good enough or kind enough to you”. And she was right and it's heartbreaking.

You said "and people have been taking it so far with louis lately. do you really think louis is so unreal to people that he wont be affected by anythign ever?"

I never said that what some people in the fandom did couldn't affect Louis, for what he shared on his tweets it seems like it has affect him in some way.

I do fear that the more hate that he sees the more he will distance himself to interact with fans on social media and although I would totally understand him to do that, I would be really sad if that is the case. One of the reasons of why I love Louis is how he is so attentive with fans and wants to answer fan questions or talk with fans etc. It feels like he is close with his fans and it would be a really shame to lose that. But I do fear that he could stop being active on social media for that reason.

You said "or are larries waiting for him to be lost before they realize their mistakes?"

I don't like the generalisation of larries, sure you can name the group to identify them but that's about it. Larries are a group of people with different opinions on fandom. The negative discourse is not only from larries it's in all sides of the fandom, sadly and I don't like the hypotetical scenario you are mentioning and blaming it on larries. What each people in the fandom do it's out of my control, each person is responsable for their actions and words. I can only control my actions and thoughts and I said in my post I will keep trying to be kind and keep supporting the boys, that includes Louis. I will always encourage people to be kind but that is as far I can control.

You said "giving up and not even making an effort to give a countervoice to bullying and harassment is a cop out."

It's not a cop out to remove yourself even temporarily from a situation. And it's unfair to say that. Every single person comes to this place with a different life experience and a different set of pain points. You don't know mine and I don't know yours. Sometimes the bravest thing you can do is take a break to regroup.

I think it's something really important to prioritize your mental health over fandom and do whatever is best for you. If you think that what I do is not enough, you can share your thoughts about the fandom topic in your blog.

I don't want to use those words you mention for the fandom because not everyone can be in those categories. My opinion is that fandom will be a better place if we are more kind and if we sometimes take a step back before we react to stuff. Personally I will keep trying to be kind with the boys and the fandom because I still think that in a kinder world we still have Liam and that is a thought that I will never forget.

The fandom feels so divide right now and I do hope that it feels less like that when he release LT3. I think Louis is an amazing person, he is such a talented artist, his music has an impact, his voice is beautiful and powerful. I think he has show so many ways the type of person he is, someone caring, that loves his family, his fans, that gives to charity, that tries to send a positive message to keep going, to not give up. He has been such a positive person in so many people's lives and also in the music industry in general.

I will always be thankful for Louis because he has save me and he keeps doing that, and I will be here rooting for him and wishing him the best.

Take care anon.

[the-andy-grand-prix]

I need the 2025 season to start EXPEDITIOUSLY less because of my own desperate need to see cars driving around funky not-circles again and more because I think the F1 community is actively losing brain cells with every non-race week