#like even as a person with very little experience with catholicism i'm not getting anything truly compelling from the show itself

[scorndotexe]

midnight mass should have been weirder and bolder and it would have been better for it

[nile-the-empathy-cleric]

Hello! I am just starting my journey on reconnecting with my traditional roots as an Italian practitioner. My great grandparents came from Italy in the mid 1900s, but unfortunately passed before I had the pleasure of asking about their practices. Can I ask a good starting point for someone who is trying to reconnect all on her own?

Hello!

I am so happy that you are wanting to reconnect with your roots! I'm sorry you didn't get the opportunity to ask your grandparents, my deepest condolences for your loss.

In terms of resources, my recommendation for anyone starting out is to go to folklore sources or to read books by authors who don't simply reference other witchcraft authors. I highly recommend reading Italian Folk Magic: Rue's Kitchen Witchery by Mary-Grace Fahrun. It's mostly her personal experience with Italian folk-Catholicism and magic with plenty of anecdotes, recipes, superstitions, and various rituals. I think it's probably the best widely available source out there. She also has a youtube channel! In a similar vein, the website Italian Folk Magic has some great posts about Southern Italian and Sicilian magic.

Other online resources I've found useful are Gail Faith Edwards' writings on Southern Italian healers and folk medicine (it's split into 2 parts–– there's a lot of great information if you're into herbalism/ green witchcraft). I also love this article detailing witchcraft history, superstition, and more throughout Italy. It goes into a lot of detail and has some information about herbal properties and their uses as well.

Here are some festivals and traditions from across Italy tied to folk belief: Focara of Novoli, The Campanacci in Basilicata, The Feast of San Domenico and the Ritual of Serpari of Cocullo, Naca Procession in Southern Italy, Dance of the Devils, Celebration of Santa Lucia, The Feast of Mamma Schiavona––There are many others (mostly Saint feasts) that have pre-Christian roots or have significant rituals attached.

Most information that I have collected comes from anthropological and folklore sources that aren't very accessible. There are some videos available of documentary footage of Italian anthropologist Ernesto de Martino's work detailing folk tradition: here's a clip of La Taranta. This documentary isn't in English, however you can still get a lot out of it even if you don't speak Italian (unfortunately there are no subtitles). The documentarian that worked with de Martino, Luigi Di Gianni gives some of his recollections here. Here is a clip documenting the Feast of Mamma Schiavona. Otherwise, everything else is behind a paywall on sites like jstor, sagepub, and other academic publishers. I would recommend reading anything by anthropologist and folklorist Sabina Magliocco (I have copies of her work), as well as de Martino's Magic: A Theory from the South (which I also have a pdf of). The academic texts can be a little dense and daunting, but they're worth the read.

I have uploaded some of what I have to WeTransfer, but it will only be up for 1 week (until July 10th) so if anyone else would like to download them, you can for a limited time!

[franciskirkland]

Walesmano Headcanons 🇮🇹🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 for the bestie @senditothemoonn 💞

I'm so sorry this took so long!! I was nearly finished but tumblr reloaded somehow and it disappeared 😭😭 I can't remember all of the original post and I'm so sad but I tried to remember the best I could so here goes.

I think Dylan brings out a side of Lovino that most people don't have the privilege of seeing.

Their communication styles are very different. Argumentative Mediterranean vs. Conflict Avoidant Anglo. It takes a while for them to adjust, it's a valuable learning experience.

Lovi takes care not to be as loud around Dylan as he would be with others. He forces himself to be gentle and patient with - he's afraid of scaring him. But Dylan doesn't make him angry anyway. In fact if anyone can calm him down and temper his attitude it's his Biondino 🥺🥺 (little blondie)

In turn Lovino also empowers Dylan to be more confident and self assured, he won't let him be a doormat or a pushover anymore. Lovino is bold and protective. Dylan is calm and reassuring.

They both know what it's like to have obnoxious, overbearing, dysfunctional families so they make a point to cultivate peace for each other and intentionally practice healthy communication even tho it can start sounding like therapy speak.

They're very sweet and affectionate with each other. Initially they're not big on PDA, eventually they stop caring and act shamelessly mushy for the whole world to see.

Lovino loves to make Dylan laugh and blush. Dylan is never more satisfied than he is when he gets Lovi to display genuine, positive emotion.

Dylan spoils Lovino with baked goods, and Lovi keeps him well fed with that rich Italian home cooking and expensive dinners, so they both gain weight after getting together. On that note, I think they're about the same height but different body types. Dylan is softer and pudgier while Lovino is leaner and a bit stronger. Lovino likes wearing Dylan's thick wool sweaters, and Dylan finds comfort in the scent of his cologne.

They're both superstitious and bond over sharing folklore and fairytales from their respective cultures. Dylan isn't on board with the whole Catholicism thing but he tolerates it. Lovino claims Druidism is witchcraft.

Dylan loves cold weather. Lovino can't stand it. He forces him to get out beneath the Italian sun but he burns so bad. Winters in Wales are mostly spent inside snuggling by the fireplace.

Their living habits are pretty different. They have different tastes in aesthetics and food and music and films. Dylan enjoys reading and drinking tea. Lovino likes to watch football and sip on wine or liquor. Lovi is into formalities and putting on the ritz, Dylan is a goblincore homebody. They might not have much in common as far as hobbies, but they respect each other's quiet time and personal space. On the other hand they can also be pretty clingy... codependent in a cute way.

Their love languages are compatible. Their actual languages are not. Lovino would have a wild time trying to speak Welsh, and Dylan can hardly keep track of all the different South Italian dialects. Lovi does layer on the pet names though, Italians are so sappy when it comes to that, anything can be a term of endearment in the diminutive form.

Dylan is much more into being crafty and thrifty, whereas Lovino would happily spend good money on nice things. Homemade gifts and meaningful experiences vs expensive trinkets and lavish vacations. They're equally appreciated and they love making one another feel spoiled.

Dylan likes exploring locally, he's a bit outdoorsy. Lovino likes to travel, particularly in style, so they do a lot of that together. They both have a green thumb and maintain a beautiful garden together. Lovino grows the herbs and vegetables while Dylan tends to the flowers. They're regulars at the farmer's market and the cheese shop.

They both know they want kids in an idealistic sense, but are conflicted on the ethics of it. When they do finally decide to start a family, it becomes apparent that Lovino doesn't know how to wear a condom or simply won't. I can see them having a BIG family. Like overwhelming big.

Dylan is better with the kids but Lovino is the kind of Dad who guides his family. Not in an overly domineering way, but he makes sure they know they'll always be taken care of.

I really hope you liked these!! I don't know much about Wales as a character but I tried 💗💗💗

[catboybiologist]

Wait, you're Slavic?

Any perspectives on how that interacts with queernes, that is definitely not a thing I know a lot about. (feel free not to answer if it's too personal).

Not really. I'm American born and raised. My parents are technically immigrants, each from a different eastern european country. But they each came over here when they were kids, and have had interesting on and off connections with their home countries. Neither have accents, and typically don't look or act much different than standard white americans. I have noticed some pervasive quirks and values, however, and talking to my more fully Slavic friends, they seem rooted in the same place.

I can absolutely comment on how this has affected me, but I want to be abundantly clear: I cannot speak to an actual, lived Slavic queer experience. I'm not even bilingual (thank you, weird desire of my parents to make me "more american" by not teaching me their languages). I can comment on the cultural norms that it seems like my family has passed down, and the small amount I've seen in the immigrant communities they're a part of here. However, its pretty much impossible for me to untangle these from the quirks of just my family and family friends. That's my disclaimer, and if actual Slavic people want to comment about this (especially with what's happening in Russia) I would love to hear it.

Obviously I'm also not going to completely air my family's dirty laundry as well, so hopefully this won't get uncomfortably specific for me. I do want to talk about it though.

If there's anything I *can* comment on here, I can divide it into two things: atheistic conservative social values, and immigrant academic culture.

As I've said, I was raised atheist. While the orthodox church and other local Christian branches are still culturally relevant forces in Eastern Europe, from my understanding it hasn't been near the level of Catholicism or various Protestant movements in other countries. Most Slavic immigrants I've interacted with are atheist. They do, however, still carry extremely strong conservative cultural values despite that, and are often politically right wing as a result. The most strong and deeply rooted representation of this is the vehement protection of the "family unit" above all else. Which, as I'm sure you all will agree with, sounds nice on its surface but has a lot of branching consequences. Resolving conflict between family members is more paramount than actually resolving the hurt of individuals. There's a sense of forced closeness much of the time. And of course.... queerphobia. Anti gay marriage sentiments, regressive opinions about reproductive rights, anti-trans opinions based on preservation of the ability to reproduce.... yeah there's a lot to unpack there. A lot of this is a common theme, but most of the time, it's rooted in religion. This is very easy to completely excuse in your head. Slavs, however, typically seem to frame the root mentalities that drive these in terms of "survival", the stability of society and the societal purpose of these values, and also weird, lopsided scientific explanations for them (eg, I've heard multiple times independently that gay people are "evolutionary errors"). Which, I'm sure someone way more qualified than me to comment could write a book about how this relates to post-war and post-Soviet collective trauma, but that would be WAY outside of my scope. This makes it... always just a little different than the types of homophobia that people talk about in more classic american families, and its interesting to compare and contrast.

The other one, which I talked about more in my previous post, is high academic standards. This I think is a shared experience of children of immigrants from many places, even a couple of generations out. The stereotype of the "Tiger Mom" is the typical example, even though the scope is well beyond that. But there's a very simple explanation: the United States put harsh immigration restrictions on many countries that were seen as non-allies for the majority of the 20th century. The best way around them was, and still is, being highly educated. It's no accident that my educated family was allowed to immigrate to this country during an arms race with Eastern bloc countries. Brain Drain policies were a factor, and the cultural expectation for immigrants to be "useful" was another. What this creates is a massive cultural message to immigrants: education is the key to everything. When someone's entire current life is dependent on being high achieving and well educated, its going to create some fucky expectations for their kids. I've compared this experience with some of my East Asian friends growing up, and there's a lot of unexpected parallels.

Of course, my parents are a lot more Americanized than most immigrants, so this also falls under the umbrella of "if I'm speaking on something I actually have no idea about please correct me".

Together, I think this manifested in me not as classic internalized queerphobia, but more as a distinct sense that I shouldn't care at all, and shame for wanting to develop an aspect of myself. I didn't really hate the queer aspect of myself specifically, I had a nonspecific distaste for any aspect of my being that didn't comply with the things I said above. I haven't had that much queerphobia directed at me specifically- moreso, its a topic thats not talked about at all, as if its not real. I can only infer an opinion when loose lips start saying things after some alcohol. Which of course, there's a lot of.

Politically, I'm actually very proud of how my parents and grandparents act. They vote in left leaning ways- but they're oddities in their communities because of it. They also do so very begrudgingly (except my grandma, who has strong progressive whoop-your-ass vibes [I love her so much]), and I'm pretty sure its more about the current state of the Republican party as opposed to their actual values. With everything I've said as well, I also have very little idea how they would react to my queerness on a personal level. I'm not out to them, and I know that there's a huge difference in many people's minds between supporting queer rights as a political movement, vs how you engage with a queer person in your actual life. I've heard some very nasty things said by my parents in that regard, and the way there's a rift between "consenting adults doing whatever they want with themselves" vs actually evaluating people as... yknow. People. The "family unity above all else" aspects are particularly scary for me, and I have no idea how they'll react if I ever bring a man home to them, much less when I come out to them about gender. But that's a tangent.

Would love to hear more experiences related to this!!!! Again, its very difficult to untangle how much of this is Slavic cultural values trickling through the generations, and how much is just quirks of particular people I know.

[pianostarinwonderland]

saw that rollo catholicism post n i never knew that one day, being roman catholic will ever be relevant in anything, in something disney related no less 💀💀 but here we are hahahah for me, i interpreted rollo as catholic because of well, frollo, and the school itself is based on the notre dame which is a roman catholic cathedral!

anyway, i think i understand what you were getting at with the handkerchief bit: but i need to mention first that i am just one catholic, and not all catholics necessarily experienced the same thing as i have, having grown up in france and SEAsia compared to perhaps other ppl who grew up in, say, the US - so everything i say below is no way a generalisation and just personal experience

also i will say "we" alot, but i am not like this, there's a reason why i'm non-practicing lksdfjlskfjskd

alright so let's see if i got it right: i notice that in catholicism, there's this prevalent feeling of superiority? in a sense. that our way is the true way. the way we act and conduct ourselves, the way we pray and worship, etc. which naturally leads to a lot of judgement and even (hidden) disgust, even a lot of looking down to, towards others who do not lead a life similar to ours (a life of "virtue" by devoting oneself to only help and work in the service of others, by refusing help as it's a personal problem to be sorted between you and god, etc.) and do not practice the same religion ("worshipping the wrong god").

and evidently, when we come across people who inevitably are different than us, there's this sense of "oh they're lost little lambs who have strayed from god" kneejerk sentiment. that obviously we don't want to express aloud because it's not up to us to judge but up to god, so we just stay quiet and go along with it and smile and nod. it's all just:

and this whole thing can absolutely come off as patronising. where you just know there's silent and strong disapproval, and the fact that we're not saying it aloud makes it really uncomfortable and worse than if we had just said it out loud. and if we do say something, it's very… passive-aggressive.

p.s. i know we joke about catholic guilt all the time, but in my experience, there isn't a lot of conversations surrounding guilt. we place a lot more importance on repentance and contrition. dunno just wanted to added hahahahaha

[Reply to here!]

You managed to express what I was trying to say in a much better way than I could have XD it's that moral superiority!!! The silent judgment and disapproval, the desire to "correct" them, it's so fucking familiar

Want to talk about the p.s. part because it is pretty important XD it's true that most importance is on repentance and contrition, but that's what makes Catholic guilt so yummy (and shitty to experience). You're always told to say sorry, but nobody ever talks about the guilt you feel about committing a sin :')) and the way the culture of Catholicism is built, you can't really talk about that guilt??? Because you're then going to be told to go to a priest and tell him your sins. But you can't.. process that guilt properly, you know what I mean?

[ravenloftgm]

Faith Meade

Backstory of the best worst Ventrue.

As promised I'm gonna do big posts about all of my OCs and hyperlink them in my big OC post, and the one I've got brainrot about right now is Faith, so here we fucking go:

In life, Faith was the only child of an incredibly, incredibly mentally ill single mother. Her mum was a devout Catholic, but some sort of schizoaffective disorder or straight up schizophrenia led her to frequent episodes of believing her daughter was possessed by the devil, a sinner, an angel, etc. She was often punished severely, being deprived of things or even, on rare occasions, beaten.

Faith has an eidetic memory. She's a character in a text-based chronicle, so it's nice and simple to roleplay this, as opposed to in a tabletop game. She was the "weird kid" at her school - not being allowed to see 'satanic' movies or play video games, or generally experience anything normal, as well as remembering everything perfectly and often explaining things in too much detail, she wound up often taking lessons aside from the rest of her class, which did not help her to make friends.

While I don't have an eidetic memory, this is borrowed from my real life. I was hyperlexic and very good at math as a kid, and distinctly remember reading Anne Frank's diary in P5 while the rest of the class read with the teacher, and studying maths with the special education teacher in a private room rather than staying in the classroom. Unlike Faith, though, I had some solid friends despite this.

She did a little better in high school, but not much. She wasn't allowed to hang out with her friends outside of school, so she missed out on partying and sleepovers and such, and her relationships with the girls in her friend group just weren't as deep as the ones the other girls shared with each other. She continued to study at an advanced level, and was able to apply for, and get into, university at just 16 years old.

Faith did her best at university. She lived in student accommodation, rather than with her mother, so she had a lot more freedom. She made a few friends and mastered her social skills, and while she still couldn't go drinking with them all at clubs, she managed to secure her first boyfriend, get into video games, and catch up on some media she missed. She prioritised her studies, though, determined to wind up in a high-paying job so she could get her mother into some sort of mental health facility, and enjoy an independent life away from her forever.

Faith maintained her Catholicism throughout her life. While her mother wasn't well, she had grown reliant on religion to get her through her experiences, and she just wasn't willing to give it up. She tried not to think too much about whether or not she actually believed in it all - her faith was a choice she was making. She ended up finding a church that she liked, rather than the one her mother attended - one with an evening mass, so she could juggle studying and part time work with her religion. The priest, a rather attractive man, considering your average priest, was someone she felt quite drawn to. She regularly went for confession, as someone who is quite self-pitying and self-deprecating, but she also ended up helping out with fundraisers and community projects, really finding something to live for between this community and purpose, her new friendships, and her career prospects.

She graduated and started working as a Sales Trader, the youngest in her company, and proved to have an incredible knack for it. Nobody can predict patterns quite like everyone who has seen and remembered every pattern, after all.

It is worth noting now, that Faith is a naturally very curious person - she often managed to find out things she shouldn't know. Occasionally, she would share this information with clients - and this bad behaviour came up in confession from time to time.

How was she to know that her beloved local priest was a kindred? And a Ventrue at that? Watching her develop over her teenage years from a strange, yet intelligent teenager, into a perfectly amiable young woman with a highly profitable set of skills?

The worst part, really, is that isn't even the real reason he killed her. Perhaps she could have understood, if it had been.

[flurty]

Any qualities you require to fall in love with someone? Or is there one in common that just kinda turned up?

Honestly I'm in the process of trying to figure out what sexual attraction is for me, I'm having a hard time trying to figure that out xP

Post Script: I'll be honest I kind of unleashed. This is a lot of personal stuff, and while it doesn't go into any traumatic experiences, it might be a bit of a heavy read. Basically, consider anything past this line as the long answer.

I was kinda forced into my first relationship by my entire friend group, everyone thought we were dating, and she asked if we were dating because we were too close not to be. I asked for a bit to figure things out, but I didn't know how to figure things out and just assumed what I was feeling was attraction. So I accepted and went out with her. She was very controlling and unintentionally abused me emotionally. This relationship lasted for two years before we broke things off because she was going to a different college than me.

The second one was romantic, I think, but it didn't last long. She basically tried to date-evangelize me into Catholicism, and I (as stupid teens are known for doing) just went with it because I thought I loved her. Eventually I broke up with her because she wouldn't compromise on an issue, and the next day she came back wanting to work things out. We tried, it failed, we broke up. She would come back, etc, etc. This process lasted for 6 months, and utterly destroyed my heart.

My third relationship was probably the best, and I honestly thought I would be able to be with this person for the rest of my life. But, she didn't. She wanted to die young. She wanted to go explore on her own. And she, once again, felt as like she had to try and change me (in terms of religion). The last three months of the relationship I would send a text to her, get no response. I would do this for weeks before I got a response, telling me that she's fine. At the end of the 3 months, she asked if we could go on a drive, and broke it off with me.

Unlike my first two relationships, the last one I was expecting to get dumped. Not because I was doing anything bad, it was obvious she lost interest in the relationship. I think I had already come to terms with the breakup before she even decided to break up with me.

I've been single for about 7 months, and I've been thinking about how I experience attraction and what I want from relationships. Out of the past 6 years, I've been single for a year and a half. The first lasted 2 years. The second lasted a year. The third lasted a year and a half. All that time I've had many opportunities to, I guess, do the deed, and each time I've just never went after that. In fact, I try to avoid it as much as I can, it just doesn't feel right to me.

For physical features, I really don't know. I've tended to go for the shorter girls who have a little fire in them, because I love being able to just mesh with someone who actually breathes life into me. And they've all happened to be short for whatever reason. Probably just something subconscious I've never picked up on.

What's really important to me though is having someone to lean on. Someone who I can connect with on a level deeper than the rest of the people who I'm with. I'm a very private guy, I've been through an unfair amount of trauma and I just clam up when it comes to talking about my past. Yet, I do wanna talk about it. I just don't want it to feel like they have to pull teeth out of my mouth to get to just a half detail. I want someone to let me open up at my own pace. Every one of the relationships, they seemed to demand more than what I was willing to talk about.

I also want someone who will respect my body for what it is. It's my body. I hate showing my legs, I hate showing any skin underneath my shirt. I used to solely wear hoodies and jeans, but it's just too hot for hoodies so I've been forced to wear t-shirts. I don't wear shorts unless I'm home alone and I know nobody else is around. I'm just odd like that. I look around and see most guys just walking around like they don't care. I do care, and I want someone who will respect that I care about that. Don't want to be a boy toy that's shown off to all her friends. It goes back to my privacy, I'm just really private for a reason.

Finally, I just want someone who I'll be happy with. My partner in crime. My best friend. In all the relationships I've been, there's just been something missing. Or maybe something just doesn't click. I really don't know what that spark is, but I hope eventually (even if it takes me til I'm 80) that I do find that spark in a person. Someone who won't force me into arguments and make me feel like shit about my quirks, someone who won't try to convert me to their perfect man, and someone who won't leave me on read for months at a time.

Thanks for the question ^^

[fortunatetragedy]

rubbing my dirty little hands together

3 18 22 34 53 67 for whoever seems most fun to answer for :)

I thought I posted this yesterday MY BAD <3

It's Thirsty Ask O'Clock and one of my favorite degenerates is here hi Skylar :D

I have a feeling I'm going to end up answering for both Sullivan and Royston LOL. (Even when Khalid is old enough to answer sexy questions, the answers are all "I'm asexual, go away.")

3. Did they have an experience they consider their "sexual awakening"?

So... I'm letting Royston sit this one out for Legal Reasons.

Sullivan...

Bullet points and a blunt, jokey tone to minimize emotional damage, that's the way I roll baby:

be Cole Sullivan

have reached The Age of Reason

concluded you're not only not sure about Catholicism but you're not too keen on the idea of getting married either?

(you don't abandon Catholicism until the American Civil War when you watch your tenth or twentieth friend get greased right in front of you)

spend a lot of time working down at the Tilford ranch once you're old enough (like 12? they didn't gaf how old you were re: anything in 1847-48)

that's right Sullivan had his sexual awakening at a horse ranch with a boy

(IDK if it was the same boy every summer or what that's a job for the fanfic writers)

anyway his dad found out when he was 15 and they physically fought over it and then Sullivan joined the Army so that wasn't super fun

but I bet that was a real nice summer he had the summer he was 13-14

18. Preferred position?

You know what? I'll give you both of them.

From this point on there is heavy spoiler talk for DMLS Books 1 + 2, as well as light talk of trauma as it pertains to Royston's backstory. (Gotta be mindful of your partner's trauma when you're getting nasty, right?)

Royston is a top. An aggressive top LOL. He does not, as a general rule, mentally enjoy being the receptive partner even if it is physically pleasurable. In the past, every instance I have of him giving oral or receiving anal sex has been to manipulate the guy. He stopped doing that in his twenties and sticks to "You try to stick it [a dick] in me, I'll stick it [a knife] in YOU." That rule does not apply to Sullivan. He loves both of those things with Sullivan and I cannot explain it without writing an essay which I will totally do if someone needs me to show my work. And since Sullivan has lower-limb mobility issues in Book 2, he has to be adaptable in how his fantasies play out. His absolute favorite way of doing it with Sullivan (standing missionary, ig? where the wall takes the place of the bed, Royston puts his back to the wall and holds onto Sullivan like a spider monkey) can only be done until June 1873, and then only really once Sullivan's got his strength and balance back (he's had a transfemoral amputation.) I don't think he cares too much as long as Sullivan is having a good time tbh.

Sullivan will talk for a page if I don't just cut to the chase: face-down with Royston on top of him like a human blanket. In Book 1, Sullivan also seemed to enjoy cowboy quite a bit, and I'm not mad about that. Like. He's a cavalryman with very little sexual experience. I can't expect anything else out of him.

22. How shy are they with new sexual partners?

I'm going to give you both of them again bc they're short answers:

Royston isn't shy. He's a psychopath; if he's with somebody in any sense of the word, he's hoping to get something out of them. I've run his ability to be whatever the other man wants him to be in simulations and it's fucking terrifying.

Sullivan may as well be a virgin (been in the Army since 15 and he's 37-38; he takes his job seriously, so once he was promoted to Corporal he just shut that shit down entirely.) He was shy the first few iterations of the time loop (death wipes a person's memory; Sullivan is, uh, the king of dying) but now that he and Royston have done this a few times he's got the hang of it.

34. What's the most adventurous thing they've tried during sex?

[flips to page 584]

Sullivan proposed they practice Royston's hematomancy during sex and broke out a knife. He may as well have proposed marriage. It ends up having practical benefit in Book 2, so good job dude, I thought Royston's being a FREAK had just worn off on you~

53. Do they prefer to call it fucking, having sex, sleeping together, or something different?

Depending on the mood they're in, they've both referred to it as laying together, making love, staying the night, and "not be[ing] able to walk tomorrow" (OK that one was Royston. In the first draft. Before he realized Sullivan doesn't care for that kind of talk.) Royston doesn't typically call it "fucking," "fornicating," or any of the other more colorful turns of phrase he would normally employ because Sullivan is a good person whose feelings he tries not to hurt.

67. Do they have any anxiety around having sex with someone new?

Oh for sure LOL. I'll just focus on Royston, because I answered this for Sullivan a bit earlier and I could write an essay on why he had anxiety around having sex with Royston LOL.

(I don't need to write an essay, I wrote the October 1872 chapters.)

Being alone in a room with another man is always a high-stakes situation for Royston. He used to be a mercenary assassin, and he has childhood trauma that I'm not going to get into here. He does not take female partners, nor has he ever, but I'd imagine if he did he would have the same attitude because the women in Royston's world are bad bitches. Like, there are probably a number of people who are pissed off they can't use their female assassins to finish him off, because he only sleeps with men. (Everyone remember Royston was born in 1828. THAT TOOK OUT SUCH A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF THE ASSASSIN POPULATION. NO WONDER NO ONE'S GAKKED HIM YET.) He has had a man who he thought he could trust turn on and overpower him before, as a grown-assed adult, and that made him have anxiety in general for a minute. (PTSD, Jamie. The word is PTSD.) He may have spent his thirties in a "fuck the world" phase where he goaded people into trying something with him. Weaponized his trauma a bit, you know? He's in his mid-40s when we meet him, and he survived whatever his thirties were like and is back to being DTF.

The first few iterations of the loop, he didn't trust Sullivan. He kept thinking "Surely this gentleman act is complete bullshit, once we get our clothes off he's going to turn into the same cotton-skulled no-wit they all turn into eventually, let's just draw it out early and get it over with." And that never happened. Sullivan was a gentleman the whole time they were banging even though Royston was a gremlin. They eventually learned to trust each other, and they fell in as much of love as it was possible to be in considering Royston is a psychopath and Sullivan recognized that and was protecting his boundaries.

They died at the end of the original timeline and had to start over from the moment they met (September 1872) with neither of them remembering any of the events between September '72 and June '74. There were several loops where either they both died, or Sullivan died, so the same thing would occur, but each loop Royston trusted Sullivan a little earlier, or a little more, and on the "final" loop in book 1 he not only demonstrates that he has total trust in Sullivan but he also finally gets it through his thick skull that Sullivan has sensory issues and maybe he needs to not be so goddamn loud when they're knocking boots.

[moekaneko]

May I request a short drabble of a deconstructing catholic mc x lucifer (just both of them talking about their experiences if that ok )

That's totally fine!

As a person who grew up around people who weren't particularly religious but followed those rules and who now has their own opinions on god and all, I love this.

_________

You and Lucifer were sat next to each other in his study, staring at the fireplace and sipping on some well matured demonus.

Lucifer had called you into his study. He'd seemed tired and stressed all week and would often call you in to talk to you about his problems and hear you talk to him just to relax.

This was no different, the both of you talking quietly about memories and funny little things his brothers had done recently.

Suddenly, Lucifer asked

"So from what I hear you're catholic."

You thought for a second, wondering how it was obvious, especially since you weren't exactly very involved in it anymore.

"I guess you could say I was, not as much now."

Though to some it would seem strange to say you were a Catholic, it felt good to get off your chest. Most people either didn't know at all or you were too afraid to say that you weren't really anymore for fear of criticism.

"What happened? I mean there's got to be some reason." Lucifer said softly. You knew he wasn't forcing you to answer, he didn't mind, but it'd be wrong to say he wasn't interested.

You felt calm. Quite usually when people asked for an explanation you'd feel uncomfortable, uptight, even a little disassociated. But this time, it was different. You felt relaxed, the loud sound of the crackling fireplace only overpowered by your voices.

You explained your situation to Lucifer. It sounded strange saying you told the fallen angel Lucifer why you no longer felt as strongly about your religion, but it also sounded like he would understand I mean he's literally a fallen angel he'd know about losing faith in something like that.

"Ahh, so that's it." Lucifer said softly as he watched his drink swirl round in his glass.

"I know it's probably strange for you to here, especially after all... that."

"Not at all. I understand. Sometimes things happen, and I'm glad you are not so distressed at who you are." Lucifer answered, a sweet tone to his voice as if talking to someone he'd known all his life.

You and Lucifer continued to talk all evening, and unlike you thought, he sympathized with every word, not an awkward moment.

___________

Thank you for such a wonderful ask, I loved it!

I hope you like it, I didn't want to go too far in to the religion and more in to comfort as I don't know much about how catholicism works but I hope that it's okay, just let me know if there's any changes or anything!

[cheerfullycatholic]

Hi! I'm currently starting out on my journey in Catholicism and was wondering if you had any advice or anything? I know I shouldn't be- But I grew up in an atheist family and am very nervous. :( Anything would help quite a lot. <3 Have a wonderful day, lovely.

(I’m going to apologize in advance because I tend to be very wordy and this will definitely be a long reply)

Being nervous is completely normal, don’t feel bad for it. I grew up Catholic and I get the same way all the time! It’s okay :)

When I started to really get into my faith, around age eighteen, I didn’t know where else to start but social media. I started to follow a ton of devout Catholic accounts like latincatholicism, cathoholicism (I think that’s how it’s spelled?), catholic4rednecks, and catholicconnect, to name just a few (I could give a bigger list if you want!). They all helped me to learn more about my faith, mostly through memes which I thought and still think is hilarious and a really cool way of reaching people. I found a lot of awesome devout Catholics on TikTok, too, but I know a lot of people don’t like the app (for good reasons) so I’ll refrain from mentioning them, although I follow a bit of them on IG, as well.

Another thing that I believe is incredibly helpful is not just reading the Bible, but finding verses that catch your eye and writing them down, or finding ones that confuse you and looking up their meaning. I have a notebook set aside just for that reason. It’s filled with verses, quotes from the saints, paragraphs from the Catechism, etc. It keeps everything I want to remember contained and I personally just love writing.

And since I’ve just mentioned it, we’ll go onto the Catechism, next. From what I understand (and in the whole scope of things, I understand very little), the Catechism is just a book compiling all of the Catholic Church’s teachings. I HIGHLY recommend checking it out on your journey, that way you will know what exactly it is you want to be a part of. You can buy it on Amazon, or access it for free on the Laudate app.

Actually that app is great anyways, I’ll mention it, too. It has so many Catholic prayers, novenas, quotes. As stated, it also has the Catechism with a convenient search option, and one or two versions of the Bible. I believe one of them is the Douay Rheims version which is spoken highly of.

I think there’s two things I’m going to mention then I’ll be done. Again, sorry about the long reply! Believe it or not, I’m trying really hard to keep it short.

Catholic Answers is a GREAT website for getting...well, as the name states, answers for almost any question you have. I’ve been using it since I was eighteen and so far it seems like a really reliable source so I definitely recommend checking that out.

Finally, we get to prayer. Prayer is so incredibly helpful, it connects us to Heaven, to our Father Himself. We can get so lonely and downtrodden in this world, talking to God is sometimes the only thing that keeps me going. And we can’t forgot our Blessed, Heavenly Mother! The Rosary is such a beautiful prayer, it’s hard for me to even describe. But I know that it can be kind of intimidating, it was to me and it was for other people I’ve talked to. If it’s a prayer you’re interested in but you don’t know where to start praying it, Laudate walks you through it. However, on an app called Hallow, you can listen to it, which I prefer.

Ah I feel like I’ve rambled far too much, I’ll stop here. As an end to this probably painful reply, I just want to say that I’m so proud of you! I know you’re nervous but you have so many people cheering you on, both on earth and in Heaven. You’re not alone, we’re all here for you and praying for you. I hope any of this was helpful and if anyone reading this has any other suggestions (or criticisms about anything I said), please comment them below! God bless 🖤

OH MY GOSH NO WAIT THIS LAST THING IS IMPORTANT. Find a church near you to visit, be in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. It is a wonderful experience and I wish I could go more often. OKAY BYE SORRY

[theoi-crow]

(tw for needles)

Hello!! I've just recently started working with Apollo in the past week after doing research for months, I've started setting up an altar and everything. Last night I was giving myself a shot (testosterone) and I asked Apollo if he could watch over the injection and help things go smoothly. Well, I've been doing this for years and it was the worst shot yet, I completely botched the first one and hit a nerve on the second one. Is this a bad sign? I don't know what I could have done to make him angry. Also he seems cold and distant, and I'm having trouble talking to him... I'm starting to get worried. Is this him telling me he doesn't want to work with me? Thanks in advance, you were the first person I thought to come to for advice. Blessed be 💕

I'm so sorry this happened!

Because this is a medical question, for your safety, I want to preface this by saying that I'm not licensed to give this kind of advice nor do I have experience with it, so please take what I say with a grain of salt:

No, Apollo isn't mad or disapproves. I want to address this first before a bigoted Hellenic Polytheist gives you missinformation.

You said that you started working with Apollo for a few weeks after doing months of research which means your subconscious mind is still getting used to this and may be sabotaging it. 

It takes years for the subconscious mind to accept or change old beliefs and patterns that it has consumed when it was still a child. This is why children will believe anything and are very impressionable (because it goes straight to their subconscious mind): (LINK)

The reason why I say this is because the human mind is very powerful and does not like change. 

It's easier to sabotage a new relationship than it is to accept change for the human mind because the mind is very efficient and from an evolutionary standpoint it prefers what it can predict and does not like what it can't. 

It's very common for the subconscious mind to sabotage a new relationship with a god in an effort to keep things the way they are because it thinks it is protecting you. It can make plans with what it knows because these plans have already shown success in the fact that you're still alive. 

The mind unconsciously sees the unknown as a gamble and cannot predict itself surviving what new thing might happen, so it tries to keep you from doing it in an effort to protect you. 

This is why shadow work, cognitive research, general psychology and religious history are all very important when it comes to changing beliefs or starting relationships with gods, because the world we live in is primarily influenced by Christianity which influences the media we unconsciously consume

(whether or not you grew up Christian because Christian influences affect the way our society has been shaped like laws that mirror the 10 commandments and court houses that used to be churches and while some have progressed from this custom, many still use the Bible as a way to help people swear in court or to swear people into an important office position.) 

The best example for the christianization of the gods in media is movies like Disney's Hercules or the 2017 Wonder Woman movie where gods like Hades and Ares are portrayed as "Satan" while they oppose the views of Zeus (who represents the Christian god.) And the reason why it's designed this way is because when the Romans were trying to control the Christian narrative from early Christians, they created Catholicism and gave the Christian god, heavy Jupiter and Zeus-like qualities. 

Think of your beliefs in the shape of a three layer cake with a main deity at the top or something that was very influential in your childhood.

The cake itself was created with things your parents, the media and society gave you. The cake was created by your baby and child mind as it took everything as fact because children do not develop critical thinking skills until they are older. 

When you switch gods, the only thing you are changing is the topping but you really need to get rid of the whole cake.

Unfortunately, because this cake has useful tips to help you survive wrapped with other things that no longer serve you, you can't get rid of it completely, especially because it's nourishing you unconsciously. So what you have to do is observe and study it so you can change it over time. 

This won't be easy and you can expect backlashes in the form of guilt but it's worth it. It took me 5-10 years to create a new cake and the guilt still finds me from time to time. 

Apollo is not mad, he's just new to your life and your subconscious mind is still getting used to it.

I recommend starting with smaller connections and working your way up to a closer connection. Apollo can be a little distant and he may be doing it for your safety but sometimes it is our subconscious mind that refuses to acknowledge new gods or makes them seem like they don't care about us in an effort to make you think your better off doing what you've always done (even if you didn't like it). 

The human mind is amazingly efficient and that can be awesome but it can also be frustrating because this will require patience, vigilance and time. 

Take it slow. 

Be careful and I hope your mind begins to warm itself to the idea of working with Apollo soon. He's the god of science and he knows this is what the mind will do because he's been observing humans for so much longer than we know. 

I hope this helps! 

May Apollo ease your fear and your bond with the god of light and clarity grow closer, as he helps your mind accept your new truth.

[resignedseraph]

hi, i struggle a lot with the idea of defining my faith because of my personal experience with the catholic/christian based faiths. i was brought up in catholic school and i could probably tell you anything about any of it at this point, but the one constant for me was always that the god i was taught about got more complex with age which i think is bullshit because then we get into the bible was written through divine inspiration and the hypocrisy that just because the holy spirit (which is god (who is infallible)) divinely inspired people (who are infallible) that means suddenly only priests and popes can translate god's plan for you because they were Called to Serve™️ - i'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole because i'm pretty sure i'll have an aneurysm (you can't say god is the embodiment of red and so what if that includes green - i'm watching the good doctor and they made a similar reference which means it's the only thing i can think up rn).

ANYWAYS. the post that prompted this was "i wasn't getting into your heaven anyways" i think. how do you know that heaven is the right heaven? how do we know catholicism hasn't been corrupted by the demons of say capitalism and bigotry and arrogance etc and that the only way you could actually get into heaven is if you stop trying. why would their version of god want eternal life with people that only ever did the right thing so they could live forever? i think the god i could get behind would have a heaven for the sake of those that actually deserve it. give them what they think they want and oversee it even though they have to watch their creation wallow in the sin they tried to save them from (which by the standard of the god i learned about in elementary school like the god that should exist or else fuck that shit i'm out) and they would do it because it's the unselfish thing to do and as much as it hurts they couldn't bear to have anyone else be subjected to that kind of awful. and say hell ends up being heaven? say the archangels falling was an elaborate ruse to TRULY separate good people from bad people? and maybe heaven isn't really hell but it's this limbo that the bad people go to but like they have the chance to realize they were awful and like that could be how they could maybe get to heaven but they have to realize it themselves and try to redeem themselves by doing something really big with the knowledge that they could be wrong and end up going to fire and brimstone and never see their loved ones again for it but still they try because it's the right thing to do. and what if purgatory is for the worst people, maybe there's a parallel to it that people who are truly sick/were born with something in them broken are the demons that make purgatory the worst place as their punishment along with like demons or whatever idk i'm making this up on the spot. what if hell is the heaven you always hoped for, heaven is the hell you're living through, and purgatory is just unimaginable horrific with like hitler and shit getting what they SO deserve and more.

wouldn't that be like wicked cool?

i'm sorry if that doesn't make any sense i'm probably gonna go try to write a book or some shit but like idk. it felt like you might find my semi critical ramblings somewhat relatable? or that it might - not restore your faith i'm not here for that that's bullshit - heal something inside of you that's been broken by your personal experience with religion? maybe that you could die with that warm and fuzzy hope in your heart that we all should have had when we were kids..? i hope this doesn't upset you, i just. i'm a dreamer.

i was born with a heart that feels way too much and a conscience that will not let me be any other way than what i am. i've been called weird and annoying for it all my life. but i found a peace in truly rejecting religion, which i think people might forget also means buying into the fact that rejecting religion means we're doomed to the hell that religion subscribes to. i think maybe it could be rejecting the heaven and the hell that religion subscribes to and either defining it for ourselves or simply saying whatever and giving it the best you got even if your best doesn't seem all that good.

what if you were to embrace the things you've always been told make you bad to do the good you wish existed - and what if that was enough? i think that's why i get out of bed in the morning. and that maybe it's healed a part of me that's needed to believe in a world like that a long long time ago but never had the chance..

Look, this ask is so long and took me so long to figure out what it said (thank you brain), and I grew up very Protestant so I hope you don’t mind if I missed some stuff or can’t really address it. Also lmk if you want me to delete this or whatever, I just didn’t want to leave you hanging.

I do think Catholicism, and Christianity in general, have been corrupted by all those things. Probably not demons, just humans and their terrible ideas and striving for power.

I think that trying to decipher what any “true” meaning of a religion is —especially one like Christianity as an umbrella term— ends up being really confusing and complicated, and sometimes you even end up with a set of beliefs that aren’t even the religion you started out with. Trust me, I’ve tried. Some people can figure out beliefs that make sense for them, and that’s cool, but by the time I figured out a set of beliefs that made sense to me, it wasn’t even Christianity anymore except by inspiration.

I’m not sure what to make of your ideas about the afterlife setup, but I do think that the vast majority of ideas of Heaven tend to be a hell in themselves. I can’t justify the Heaven/Hell setup, and can’t say anything really about Purgatory since I don’t know enough about the most common beliefs about it, but it doesn’t sound fantastic either. Regardless, I don’t think punishment is the appropriate response to any sort of “sin,” especially from the perspective of a supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing, infinite being.

I think I’m fine with being doomed to the hells of the religions I don’t believe in. After all, that argument works with nearly every religion that has a concept of a punishment afterlife, and I’ve been fine with that since I was little, even if it was for different reasons. I’m honestly not sure about the last bit. I think I probably will die with that “fuzzy feeling,” but from a different source, most likely just love for humanity and the world.

[script-a-world]

hello. i want to write a story set in a very religious place. like fanatic level of religious. in my mind, this place is ruled by what the church says but has a "cover" figure to "connect" with the people. the people of this place are devoted to their religion, meaning they know passages, go to mass, and shun those who don't support it. here is my question: how does one go about creating a religion that feels real? what do i need to take into consideration (i'm not religious myself).

Mod Miri Note: At the same time this came in we also received from the google form the question “How do I world build a religion?” I can’t confirm they’re the same anon, but we’re combining them for the answer.

Brainstormed: You seem to have a very… narrow perception of religion? If you aren’t religious yourself and you’re (presumably) from a Western culture, it makes sense that the Christian church and more specifically Catholicism are your go-to images of hyperreligion. Saying “mass” and “church” and “passages” kind of gives away the fact that you’re trying to base your religion off of at least your idea of an Abrahamic religion, but I’d ask you to reconsider. Right now it sounds like you’re trying to create a negative critique of these religions, and even if that is what you’re going for, you need to do a lot of research on their theology, history, and practices before you can do so with any competence.

I’d suggest doing some basic research on types of religions, like animism, pantheism, polytheism, general superstition, etc. There are plenty of spiritual worldviews that you might consider way over the top, but whose believers find it more bizarre when people don’t follow their teachings. Fanatics are never fanatics in their own mind, and especially among their own people, but also… fanatic might be a relative term. If you’re approaching this from a nonreligious background, then you might consider X-amount of religion in one’s lifestyle to be fanatic-level. Whereas a person who actively practices religion would consider X-amount to be perfectly normal, and only folks who take it to XX-amount plus some shadier practices are the true fanatics.

Remember, religions start because people want to make sense of the world. There is a deeper feeling of wonder and personhood and power, both within a human being and in the whole world around us, that drives spirituality and generates superstition. Religion, at least to start, is beneficial to people, otherwise no one but sadists would follow its teachings. Now, like anything else, religion can devolve into a means of power hoarding and control of a populace, but only because of the people in charge getting greedy. The vast majority of religions I’ve studied have had radical, freeing, empowering teachings applicable to everybody when they first sprang up, and only later did adherents twist those teachings into societal oppression. If there is no satisfaction or benefit in your religion, there won’t exactly be any incentive for people to follow it so closely, aside from whatever negative consequences occur for those who fall away. And negative consequences aren’t often enough to keep people in a religion. If following religion is more painful than the consequences of leaving it, plenty of people will jump ship.

Religion can also show up in every single part of life. According to Wikipedia:

A religious experience (sometimes known as a spiritual experience, sacred experience, or mystical experience) is a subjective experience which is interpreted within a religious framework. The concept originated in the 19th century, as a defense against the growing rationalism of Western society. William James popularised the concept.

You look up and see a cloud, a spiritual person sees a portent, or a spirit, or a castle where the gods live. You take a break from work for a minute, a spiritual person now has time to mutter a prayer, or observe the mood of the world, or dedicate their work to their god. A person doesn’t have to be anywhere near a fanatic to have their religion be in every part of their life. Especially if they adhere to a more lax spirituality or superstitious worldview instead of an organized religion, the central spiritual experience of religious belief alters the perception of self and surroundings. It isn’t only a set of rules to follow.

It can even help areas of society that modern Western society considers nonreligious! Historically, medicine has always come under religion. Witch doctors, medicine men, witchcraft, even the hygiene laws laid out in the Christian Bible. Physical health has often been considered a reflection of spiritual health, which, in a way, is true! The placebo effect means tending to one’s mental and emotional health with the reassurance of religion will improve one’s physical health as well. Not only that, but the power of a “spiritual experience”, regardless of if you believe the supernatural is real, can cause religious ecstacy, something you might perceive as a serious psychological problem but those who experience it consider to be a deep form of spiritual expression to be treasured and sought after. The spread and preservation of information is also often aided by religion, even though that can change should those in power want to change history or obscure truth for their own reasons. Just look at the history of the printing press and how that was driven by the need for Bibles. Many cultures, most famously Australian Aboriginal peoples, have oral histories thousands of years long that tie in closely to their spirituality.

You also might be confusing religion with cults. If you think all religion is predatory, playing on people’s weaknesses and fears in order to coerce them into a miserable lifestyle of following strict laws and living under control of those in power, you definitely have conflated “religion” and “cult”. If you’d like to worldbuild a cult, go ahead! It’s likely to be smaller and less acceptable than an established organized religion, not very transparent to the outside world nor its members, and have a spirituality that is in fact just a veneer over gaining power, instead of genuine belief and devotion, and may in fact require people to murder or commit suicide. Just look at Scientology, or these, or even Jared Leto, and a more in-depth look from this organization covering many different kinds of cults.

On a more worldbuildy note, are those who practice this religion correct? Does their god(s) exist? Is the supernatural real? If yes, then are they really fanatics if they’ve been right all along? Even if they’re incorrect, the dedication and deep-held beliefs of religious people shouldn’t be mocked wholesale, in my opinion. Make sure to keep some genuine three-dimensional development for characters who are part of this religion, or include other religions with different practices, or the only thing you’ll accomplish is “waaaa religion bad believers dumb”. And if that is the story you want to write, feel free, but I can’t help you there.

Feral: What makes a religion feel real? Sincere faith.

Specifically among the leaders. I mean, sure, those lemming-like peasants who actually believe that superstitious nonsense will have sincere faith, but honestly? There is going to be a higher percentage of people faking it among the masses than among the clergy. Clergy members are generally required to go through rigorous studies and often take vows that can cause great discomfort. I am sure there are those who did it for the power - there are in atheist organizations as well, humans can be crap - but if you actually read the writings of important Church leaders of the past, not to mention rabbis, imams & mullahs, and archakas, you’re going to find that they have sincere faith.

Something you should always keep in mind when developing pre-modern religion in a Western context is that before the advent of modern scholarship, which starts to become a thing in the West during the Renaissance, all the important scholars were clergy. And again, those learned people either had to be really, really dedicated to their power-hungry ambitions or had to have sincere faith.

That does not make religions perfect by any means nor does it mean that the god they have sincere faith in is omnibenevolent (though the qualities of an omnibenevolent god will be strongly dependent on the culture that worships it). And religious leaders are absolutely capable of doing terrible, terrible things even if they profess to worship an omnibenevolent god, and politicians can definitely twist things around to suit their needs (again, this is not exclusive to religiosity). But your ask has this weird given that a major religion (on par with Catholicism/Christianity) in your world is a scam, and while yes, that happens in cults and alternative religions and in splinter groups*, as Brainstormed pointed out that’s just not how, at least, the four major religions of our world got started.

Yes, it’s true that bureaucracies of a certain size and age will inevitably begin to change focus to protecting its own existence. And yes, it’s true that ambitious sociopaths will be drawn to places of authority even if they are difficult to achieve. And yes, it’s true that an individual entering a toxic environment is more likely to be changed by the environment than to change the environment. But guess what! That has nothing to do with whether the organization is religious or not.

Why does a religion exist in the first place? It explains the universe in a pre-modern world; it provides organization and structure for community focus - in other words, many social programs have historically been run through religious organizations and leadership. And it provides hope and comfort in a very scary world.

Some clergy might be able to fake all of that for a little while, but a large bureaucracy with many clerics who are all in on the fake? No. Allow me to rephrase: hell no. People are not dumb. Maybe you believe that of all religious people, but you are wrong and they are not. The people in your world, if they’re anything like the people in our world, are gonna sniff out the bullshit if none of their religious leaders believe what they’re selling. There is a reason Scientology has to keep blackmail files on all its adherents, and I promise you, the Catholic Church does not do that.

*A note on cults, alternative religions, and splinter groups: Cults and alternative religions (their PR friendly name) are “religions” that are scammy and/or actively dangerous to the participants or others: People’s Temple, Branch Davidian, etc. Splinter groups are congregations that start as normal members of a large religion or denomination but its insular culture creates a divide that just takes things a little too far even for the most fanatical of the main sect (think terrorist groups that link themselves to religions). These types of religions might be what you are actually asking about. Groups like these can be highly, highly influential but in a very contained area. What cults often do is the leader settles in an area and buys property and builds a church and maybe a school and then encourages the members to all move either onto the plot of land if it’s large enough or to buy up surrounding land and homes and push out all the non-believers. That area can then be fortified or just have a de facto boundary with the rest of the world. Sometimes a group like this can become large enough to constitute an entire town, but rarely a city - groups that large will more often have centralized compounds but with the members living scattered among non-believers, as Scientology does. Obviously a group concentrated like that will have an impact on local politics, if they are allowed to participate, but it’s not going to go farther than the county line, so to speak. As we all know from the news, splinter groups like ISIS can become very large and globe spanning, but those types of groups have within them splinter groups and factions, and I don’t think that’s what you’re asking about anyway, so I’m just going to leave it there.

But frankly, your ask reads to me as “how do I create a fantasy!Catholic that is secretly evil and will show the audience how evil religion is in the real world? Opiate of the masses!” And my advice is… don’t. Because it lacks compassionate understanding of people of faith (many faiths), it lacks a factual understanding of how world religions differ and function, it totally lacks nuance, and finally, because it is absolutely, monumentally, extremely, really, very cliche.

Maybe the way your ask is coming across to me is totally not how you intended it. Maybe you only used the jargon you used because you assumed we wouldn’t know any other terms and maybe your understanding of world religions is actually quite sophisticated. Maybe you really do have this insanely clever way to spin a tired cliche into some new and original. In these cases, we strongly encourage you to come right back with as jargon-full and specific an ask as you can write, use our submission google form to do it. Otherwise, give our responses some thought and if after you’ve developed your religion, you want to come back with a specific ask other than “how do I world build a religion?” (which is a little too broad), please feel free.

[punkscowardschampions]

Saint & Leilani

Saint: So, how many people with my surname have found their way into your inbox today? Leilani: few Saint: I hope those few have behaved and not been too taxing on your typing fingers or your patience Leilani: you're making it sound more fun & scandalous than it came close to Saint: That would be an odd but not unentirely precedented way to welcome you for us Saint: I'm just more than aware how...much, shall we be polite and say, some of them can be, even at the best of times Leilani: 😅 Leilani: are you forgetting which one of you I live with? Saint: 😅 Saint: I am in no way doubting your ability to cope with it, or previous experience doing so, just apologizing for the times you don't feel like being so gracious about their...persistence Leilani: thanks, I think? Leilani: the sentence was a mouthful to digest but I detected some sweetness in it Saint: I'm happy to apologize for my taste as well Saint: and will try to be more palatable Leilani: coming thick & fast but still smooth with it, that's impressive Saint: I'll accept that I'm potentially being much of a muchness with some of the more well-meaning but over-the-top members of my family, if that's what you're saying Saint: but admittedly, I'll struggle to hear I'm on par with certain ones who best remain nameless until I get more of a gage for your tolerance of their particular brand of care 😅 Leilani: I'm not saying much, personally, until I work out how much of this welcome wagon is genuinely what you'd like to say vs what you feel like you must Leilani: to make up for the rest or walk on eggshells in case I crack up Saint: Well, I haven't been instructed to talk to you, if that's what you mean Saint: and without a doubt, I have no idea how I would ideally like to broach this subject, because I have literally no firsthand experience Saint: I imagine that must be frustrating, is it? Leilani: it can be coming from you but not coming from you, if you know what I mean Leilani: deep in there, maybe you've got a whole other convo you'd love to be having Saint: I'm receptive to any conversation you'd like to have Saint: well, almost any, I'm sure Leilani: you & everybody else Leilani: the talk about me is non-stop Saint: We wouldn't have to talk about you Saint: I don't have any particular bias towards the subject of you, though it would be bad manners to ask you no questions about yourself, I can refrain if you have, like I said and assumed, had enough for a while Leilani: it's good manners if I'm in no mood to answer questions about me Leilani: but it'd be my bad to tell you to shush & end this convo just like that Saint: As you've saved me from the mortal sin of impoliteness with your rhetoric there, I'll save you from having to do so and can leave it there Leilani: take a turn in the hot seat, see how you feel about it Leilani: prep if I haven't saved you from 👿🔥 Saint: I'm not inclined to believe the creator would be that unforgiving, but that's what Catholicism will do for your morals, I suppose Saint: Fire away, as it were 🔥 Leilani: you're a catholic? Saint: Culturally, definitely Saint: I'm not sure my commitment to the church is such I can claim myself as fully saved, yet Leilani: mine goes as far as loving the 1st Eid for its treats & ignoring the sacrifices of the 2nd, can't call it commitment Saint: I don't think you're alone in that philosophy and approach Saint: but I don't necessarily think that's terrible at all, as long as you're finding some joy and fulfilment from religion- that is certainly a huge tenant of all the ones I've heard of, so it can only be a positive Leilani: how my friends celebrate 🎄🎁🎅 shows me I'm not Leilani: party > church Saint: Precisely, commercialism argument aside Saint: any promotion of togetherness, community and goodwill, what could be the issue? Leilani: the issue is in the confusion Leilani: people thinking it's something its not Saint: There's plenty issue around 🎄🎁🎅 but no more than most anything in our society today Leilani: if you're trying to take issue with something on any level, you'll find a way Saint: Don't you think problems should be solved? Leilani: if it can Leilani: big if Saint: Of course Saint: I think the if only makes the pursuit of more vital, I don't find it to be invalidating Leilani: sure but some questions aren't if or but ones Saint: Such as? Leilani: if I said, you're the fittest member of this family, let's go out, your answer would be no, becos you are a member of this family, it doesn't matter if you add I would if I wasn't Leilani: the answer's still no Saint: No, my answer would be that there's truly only one absolute in this life Saint: that I know of Saint: there are laws, ethics, morality and codes of conduct in all societies, sure Saint: but nothing is certain Leilani: birth & death are certain Leilani: one brought you here, the other me Saint: I was thinking about death Saint: birth is luck, usually, it's a little different Leilani: 🤔 Leilani: accepted Saint: We can differ on perspectives there, it's fine 😃 Saint: in fact, the father would probably want to put forth an argument for the opposite, now I think about it Saint: worse Catholic than I thought Leilani: I was thinking that 🤰 = birth, the certainty part being you don't get to stay in but you know Saint: I see what you mean Saint: anyone that is here is a certainty Saint: think we're going into Schroedinger territory there, I respect it Leilani: 🙀📦 Saint: 👍 Saint: who am I to say that whatever people are before and after they're people here can't debate philosophy Leilani: these are bigger questions than I expected Saint: And I wasn't meant to even ask how you were Saint: 🤐 Saint: go on Leilani: I've got a headache now 😅 Saint: Oh dear Saint: That's the first time that's happened, I would assure you but that sounds like a losing battle and another knock for my ego Leilani: your ego wants to take it as brush off, retro as hell Leilani: but I don't get questions that deep posed around me is all Saint: Retro...God, just don't take my 'deep' questions as a sign of pretension or I'm getting more tragic by the second! Leilani: it's okay I'm not a downtrodden wifey from back in the day, we're in an era where I can just tell you no Saint: and we're all the better for it Saint: though I don't think I've asked you any question where you'd be directly answerable to me 🤔 Saint: giving me a little too much credit for the universe and it's many questions there Leilani: I don't want your ego to end this convo black & blue Saint: That's very kind of you Saint: but my ability to take criticism could be compared to your ability to cope with Grace, just so we're clear Leilani: Grace isn't hard to cope with Leilani: I like her Saint: I'm glad to hear that, it would be really hard if you didn't Saint: harder, than it is, of course Saint: don't think I'm bashing her really, as I said, they all mean well, I can just imagine that relentless good intentions and meaningful conversations to be had would get very exhausting very fast Leilani: everything's happened fast Leilani: they're all playing catch up to the unexpected Saint: But you're the important one here Saint: most, although I was adding that to try and take the pressure off but clearly that's easier said than done Leilani: this is where I add something about pressure creating 💎 Saint: I don't loathe the sentiment but does it make you feel any better? Leilani: no Saint: then I wouldn't worry Saint: and I doubt there's anything hugely meaningful I can do to make you feel better in an impactful, big way Saint: but if you think of anything on a smaller scale that you would like Saint: don't hesistate to ask Leilani: will you introduce me to everyone in a retro way? Leilani: 🗨  & 🤝 Saint: That I can do Saint: The upsides to this family being as large as it is is that you're never short of functions to hijack for whatever purpose you may need Saint: and you won't have to worry about being centre of attention unless it's your birth, wedding or death Saint: even then, people have their own agendas Leilani: no pressure or as close as Leilani: when's the next? Saint: Exactly Saint: [literally whatever and whenever we want, offer a selection to show your point lol] Leilani: [picks the one where she can serve the best lewk because gotta make an impression regardless especially when you're nervous] Leilani: it's a date Saint: That it is Saint: if you'd rather show up with another kid, I'm happy to come pick you up from Grace's Saint: up to you, of course Leilani: pick me up 🚗 Leilani: I have no idea how Grace is allowed on the road Saint: 😅 Saint: I suppose they reckon the amount of potholes, we're all playing a dangerous game at the mercy of the council Leilani: 🙏 by god's grace like Saint: Seems that's all that's left in the budget 🙄 Leilani: 😅😅 Saint: I think you're in my sister's year Saint: Venus, that is Leilani: what should I think about it? Saint: You know you hypothesized that I was the fittest member of this family? Leilani: it's too late to drop the bomb that I should've asked her to pick me up Saint: She'll need a lift as much as you Saint: but meaning, she'd have taken DEEP offence to that assertion Saint: the headache would be realer Leilani: oops Leilani: & yikes Saint: again, not here on a smear campaign Saint: but I'd be doing you a disservice if I pretended she's universally easy to get on with Saint: perhaps you'll take to each other though Leilani: I'm not easy to get on with atm Leilani: but I do get a free pass Saint: You're doing fine Saint: unless this is your attempt at belligerence, in which case, sorry 😬 Leilani: attempting nothing but no pressure face to face intros Leilani: how could you forget already? Saint: 🤦 forgive me? Leilani: 💅 Leilani: hold on, I'll ask myself what my god would do Leilani: ... Leilani: yeah sure Saint: 😅 Saint: I was hoping distraction only fell under bad manners, not sin Leilani: it depends how you're distracting me Saint: What I offered would depend on how 😇/😈 you preferred your distractions Leilani: if I don't have both on offer how can I possibly choose? Saint: That's completely fair, actually Leilani: I know Leilani: so don't be unfair Saint: Wouldn't dream of it Leilani: is there anyone else you'd like to warn me about, while you're being fair? Leilani: or anyone I should run into the arms of like 🤗🤗? Saint: Warn would be extreme Saint: I don't think anyone is that bad Saint: I would have to know you better personally to say who I think you'd really click with, but there's plenty of us, I'm sure you will with someone Leilani: indulge me in the drama of it, St Leilani: 🤦😅 Saint: Oh, right Saint: you want the gossip of it all so you also have prior information on them coming into the conversations Saint: let me think then Leilani: I miss when my friends wanted to talk about that stuff Leilani: instead of me & my feelings Saint: That makes sense Saint: maybe you and Vee will get on then Saint: there's just a lot of drama to get into Saint: your head and inbox would be rocked Leilani: I've got time Leilani: & my head's already a mess Saint: Okay then Saint: bear with me if my typing speed gets retro Leilani: 😄 Saint: [just methodically go through all that is messed up with the fam nbd] Leilani: holy hell Leilani: I know I asked for that but did I though? Leilani: where have I come to live Leilani: 👋🚕 Saint: Yes Saint: sorry Leilani: hold on I need to just ✈️ Leilani: I thought my mum's relationship history was crazy Saint: It is what it is Saint: we all still manage fine Leilani: by the grace of god again, or whatever other means necessary Saint: Maybe Saint: I don't think it's all that dire now Leilani: maybe when I've come though all the stages of grief I'll be able to let you know what I think Saint: Look forward to it Leilani: I did make it sound really hot Saint: 😏 Saint: we're not all messed up, thank you Leilani: I'm used to being that half of the convo Leilani: you do you Saint: How are you messed up then? Leilani: other than having no parents now? Saint: Yeah Leilani: I'm not doing this right Leilani: any of it Saint: What aren't you doing right? Leilani: I miss her but like she's gone on holiday or a work course Leilani: not like she's never coming back Saint: Well, what's the first stage of grieving Saint: you feel like you aren't missing her hard enough, but if you were out of denial already, you'd actually be taking it way too fast Saint: be rude, right? Saint: Think of it like that Leilani: my rudeness is worse, wanting to hang out with my friends how I did before Leilani: care about 👗👠💄 Saint: Your entire world has been turned upside down Saint: of course you're craving normality Saint: I'm not just saying all this to appease you Saint: you're a kid that just lost her mum Saint: I literally do not believe there's any way you could get through this that would be wrong, or would reflect poorly on you Leilani: she needs to walk back in & badmouth all her worst clients Leilani: she can't be lost Saint: I'm so sorry Saint: that it's so unfair Leilani: unfair was when my dad stopped sending money & letters after going back home for what he said would be a few months Leilani: this is Leilani: I don't even know Saint: How old were you? Leilani: does it make a difference? Saint: Did it? Leilani: I'd just started school, so financially, yeah Saint: Do you know what he's doing now, like, where he is? Leilani: no Leilani: my mum said he had another family there Leilani: someone he was actually married to Saint: Right Saint: that was a cowardly thing for him to do Saint: the minimum would've been financial support Leilani: sadly I can't get it backdated Leilani: imagine Leilani: 👗👠💄 Saint: I'd have to look into it Saint: but probably not Saint: very hard to enforce at any rate Leilani: & taking food out of his other children's mouths, assuming he has some others Saint: Yeah Saint: but you can't be held responsible for his life choices Leilani: neither can they then Saint: I meant it'd be his problem to worry about and solve Saint: but I can understand not wanting to literally steal candy from a baby, as it were Leilani: I haven't been his problem for years, I'm Grace's now Leilani: this family's with all their existing crazy Saint: Okay, getting in contact with your dad for reparations isn't the first step Leilani: it's a mis-step Leilani: he fell off the earth, I'm not following him Saint: Okay Saint: so, what would you be doing with your friends today, if things were normal? Leilani: 🛍 Saint: So, I'll give you both options Saint: I can drive you to your friends, or whatever 🛍 you go to with them Saint: or you can come 🛍 with me Leilani: you can take me Leilani: they don't know how to act now that I'm 💣💥 Saint: they probably think they're giving you time Saint: but really, they're asking for it Saint: at least, that's how I see it Saint: maybe next weekend, or the next Saint: but we can go for now Leilani: it's okay, I wouldn't deal any better if the roles were reversed Leilani: it's not their bad that there's nothing to say or do Saint: You're very fair Saint: not to detract from how much of a 💣💥 you feel Leilani: you're flattering me like I'm not a 💣💥 Leilani: I don't know what that says about you Saint: It's honesty, not flattery Saint: The situation is a 💣💥 Saint: I've seen people handle significantly worse, that's all Leilani: it feels nice, honesty doesn't usually Saint: that's a resounding endorsement Saint: probably a bit too smug to put on a poster or LinkedIn but still, I appreciate it Leilani: you know what I mean, honesty is usually like that 💅 isn't the one or you need braces, child Saint: I think people purposefully conflate being honest with being rude Saint: but you can weaponize anything if you're that sort of person Leilani: yeah ☕ Saint: There's plenty of that sort at church Leilani: & the salon Saint: I've spent less time there myself but I imagine they're much of a muchness Saint: 👵 they all love me, obviously but father is a perfect case study for diplomacy Leilani: it's a type of church for some people Leilani: they take it as serious as a religion Saint: Hair and beauty has always been important Leilani: they just like being able to see results, there's no guarantee when you pray Saint: I'd argue there's no guarantee you get the result you wanted Saint: perhaps even less than 🙏 Saint: maybe you get what you need, not what you want Leilani: 😅😅 Leilani: maybe not for 👵 if they're trying to look 👩 Saint: it highlights the limitations of communication Saint: you think you've asked concisely for one thing, and you end up with something that's nothing like that at all Leilani: I swear I did see my mum work some genuine miracles, that said Saint: It is without a doubt impressive what can be achieved Leilani: what do you want to be? Saint: I want to work for the government Leilani: we haven't been talking that long but that has come through Saint: Is there any particular way you'd like me to take that honesty? Leilani: as a compliment? Leilani: I think Saint: 😅 I think I can manage that then Leilani: I'll tell you what I used to want to be when I was a child, that's weirder Saint: Not admitting it's weird, but go on Saint: I'm intrigued Leilani: clues: Leilani: 🦷💉🥛😁 Leilani: 🚫🍬🍭🍫 Saint: Okay, question, just the one Saint: did you want to be rich or did you just really care about oral hygiene? Leilani: I wanted to make people pretty like my mum, I suppose was the thought process Leilani: & 😁 = happy Saint: So it's even more adorable than I first thought Saint: you don't want to be a dentist anymore? Leilani: the reality is way more gory than I knew then Saint: That's enough to give me a headache Leilani: I need a job with no blood or pus Leilani: even typing that made me feel weird Saint: 😖 Saint: Subject change Saint: are you going to buy anything today? Leilani: do I need to dress to impress your family or just myself? Saint: do you want me to invite my family out shopping with us? Leilani: you do have a lot of sisters Leilani: but you know I meant do I need a new outfit for this meet & greet you're taking me to of the entire extended clan Saint: Oh, gotcha Saint: dress for yourself, of course Saint: unless dressing to impress makes you feel more at ease, in which case, go for that and you won't be alone Leilani: it can't hurt Saint: No, there we go then 😊 Saint: though you can still do the aimless browsing I know 🛍 trips are really about, of course Leilani: are you looking to dress up too? Saint: I like to look presentable Leilani: oh good becos if it was just me, Grace & your sister that'd be a statement Saint: 😅 Saint: don't worry, it won't be Leilani: I'll do my happy dentist 😁 then Leilani: as I'm thrilled Saint: I'm just as 😁 to hear that Leilani: I'll try not to turn it into a frown with excessive browsing Leilani: no promises Saint: I've got a lot of sisters, as you said Saint: I'm sure I'll cope Leilani: which one's your favourite? Saint: which sister? 😂 Saint: I'm not sure there's a diplomatic way to answer that Leilani: answer it honestly, I can promise not to slide in to share the news Saint: Well, Jay is older and we didn't meet her until she was a kid so that combined with her personality makes her the most chilled out now Saint: Vee is younger but still close enough that we were kids together, so that makes her prime annoying younger sister category Saint: then the twins are that much younger that they get to be removed from that, and I have more of that protective older brother in me Leilani: Okay so Jay's your fave Leilani: what's your brother like? Saint: No, I didn't say that Saint: but she wasn't here in the beginning and she's grown up and gone now, it's easy to have less negatives to say about her Leilani: how old were you when you met? Saint: I was about 3 when we found out about her Saint: but the process took a while because she had a dad that raised her and still wanted to even though she wasn't his like he thought Saint: I think I was about 8 when she moved in and spent most of her time with us Leilani: that must have been such a weird time Saint: it was Saint: Vee was born around the time we found out about her so Saint: that was a trial too Leilani: your parents have had a LOT going on Saint: Yes, it seems to be their forte Leilani: your brother then Saint: he's younger too, so again, protective Saint: probably because we're outnumbered too Leilani: an if question Leilani: if you had to give me one of them, as an only child, which one would you give me? Saint: 😂 an odd request but okay, let me 🤔 Saint: Probably Sekh Saint: from the short conversation we've had, you have things in common, that would work well 🛍👠💄👗 Leilani: you're gonna separate the twins? very disney channel Saint: It was either lump them in together there and offend them, or separate and acknowledge that they're separate people Saint: they'll understand 😅 Leilani: 😅 Leilani: safer if I ask Grace for a pet instead Saint: Sure that she'd be down for that Saint: 🐰🐹🐱🐶🐠? Leilani: 🤔 Saint: That is a big decision Saint: best to take your time, decide how much effort you wanna put in to day to day care Leilani: 🐱 or 🏠🐰 Saint: Cute Saint: got any names or do you need to see it before assigning one Leilani: it feels fairer to meet them 1st Saint: 👍 Saint: we can go to the nearest pet shop/shelter if you'd like Leilani: adopt don't shop, St Leilani: or else 👿🔥 Saint: Indeed 😏 Saint: but you know most shops rescue their animals now anyway Saint: except fish...but I don't know how we're morally meant to feel about breeding fish? Leilani: we won't buy any, be on the safe & 😇 side Saint: It's your day Saint: I wouldn't try to bring you down to 👿🔥 levels Leilani: thanks, I have only just moved in Saint: Definitely not my intention with this conversation, or any going forward Leilani: that comes through too Saint: Is that a compliment? Leilani: I don't know if you're 😁 or not to be a good & polite boy Saint: Why would I want to be anything less 😇? Leilani: becos of your name maybe Saint: Subverting expectations Saint: I'd argue people expect the opposite from me though, regardless of my first name Leilani: in your case pressure makes 😇 Saint: 🤞 I hope so Leilani: I'll subvert expectations for us both Saint: Is that your new plan? Leilani: I don't really have one Leilani: other than the 🛍 Saint: Well, you have time Leilani: yeah, it's the keyword that's getting thrown around most atm Saint: It's not provably true but it's most likely the case Leilani: & it'll fill an awkward silence Saint: I can clearly talk enough for the both of us Saint: it doesn't need to be awkward Leilani: this isn't, but remember how we ref-ed that you weren't the only McKenna in my 💬📱 Saint: Right Saint: is there anything you'd like me to do, beyond the formal introductions Saint: politely suggest some people give it some time, perhaps? Leilani: use the time thing against them, I like it 😅 Saint: Only fair 🙂 Saint: consider it done Leilani: we're back into retro hubby & wifey territory Saint: You think? Leilani: it's very defence squad but I'm not 😤 Saint: I'm not helping you because you're a girl and I'm a boy Saint: just because I have the ability to Leilani: I know, you're coming across capable Saint: I'd like to think so Saint: but bragging about it would not be 😇 nor helpful Leilani: I've got your back in hyping you up a 😇 amount Saint: That's sweet Saint: I promise my ego is not that fragile that I need you to but it's still nice Leilani: I'd like to think I am Leilani: that it's not all doom & gloom in me, but maybe time will have to tell, annoyingly Saint: It shows Saint: honestly Saint: you aren't what's happened to you, even if that is all you can think about right now, or feel it's all you're meant to, or are allowed to, whatever Leilani: whether or not I'm her death, I was her life Leilani: there's credit for how she raised me, I mean Saint: Definitely Saint: I don't know you yet, but I would like to get to know you, from what I've seen Saint: I won't throw out proud for her but, you know Saint: I would be in her position Leilani: I don't know what to say Leilani: that feels above nice to hear Saint: I'm almost certain she would want you to know that, at the very least Leilani: yeah, she would Leilani: she wasn't too humble for a brag Saint: 😅 Saint: you should continue that tradition then Leilani: you'll regret saying that when I make you take 10000000000000s of pictures of me posing in different 👗 Saint: 😏 I'll have to buy myself something expensive to cope, I'm sure Leilani: ⌚️ so you can keep an eye on the time Saint: I have an uncharacteristically free day today Saint: my time is yours Leilani: what are we waiting for? come get me Saint: That's what I was waiting for Saint: I'll be with you shortly Leilani: consent given Saint: 👍

[hayscodings]

I'm the fic writer. I was just reading through all that mess just now and like ... Jesus christ have mercy. But how do you think Penelope and Cheryl's upbringing differ beyond the adoption? As well as Nana Rose's part in their lives?

Well, for starters, Cheryl wasn’t raised in an abusive orphanage for eight years. She never knew a life without parents or had to wonder about why she was given up as a baby, or if she would ever get adopted and have a proper family. The Blossoms don’t seem to be particularly religious by any means, so I don’t imagine Catholicism played a significant role in Cheryl’s upbringing whereas it would have played a huge one in Penelope’s. The Sisters, no doubt, indoctrinated all of their children with their religious beliefs. 

Cheryl was born into privilege while Penelope was born into nothing. She had no parents, no surname that could be traced back to any family (probably), no house, no room or toys of her own…she couldn’t even pick out her own clothes. And she probably had to do chores like wash dishes and scrub floors from a young age. She knew what it was like to work hard and struggle and be exhausted. 

Cheryl, on the other hand, was born into the royal family of Riverdale. Since the day she was born, her name meant something. She grew up in a mansion on an impressive estate, had a room to herself, wore only the finest of clothes, and had the best toys money could buy. And she had a twin– a companion from day one. She also had status, and plenty of resources. You can be sure she received all sorts of private lessons from swimming to ballet to horseback riding to archery. Anything she wanted, she could have it. 

And you just know she was the type to threaten people with her dad– “do x and I’ll tell my daddy…”, “all it would take is one call from daddy…”, etc. She was a perfectly spoiled little princess. Probably had the most extravagant birthdays parties and Christmas presents…meanwhile Penelope couldn’t even experience believing in Santa. Being raised in a manor with staff, Cheryl almost certainly never lifted a finger when it came to household chores. 

In terms of family dynamics, Penelope realized early on that the Blossoms didn’t adopt her for altruistic reasons. This means that she knew they didn’t take her in because they wanted a child to love and care for. She knew they had ulterior motives for bringing her into their family, and, surely enough, she ended up putting two and two together and realizing that they were grooming her to be her brother’s wife. So, right there you have: 1) Penelope having to contend with the fact that she was merely a pawn to her parents, 2) Penelope recognizing that she was being abused, 3) Penelope having to deal with the knowledge that she was going to be forced into an incestuous marriage, and 4) Penelope knowing her entire future was mapped out for her and that what she wanted didn’t matter. The Blossoms stripped Penelope of her agency and treated her like a chess piece. She wasn’t their daughter; she was merely an object.

Cheryl had no such experience. Cheryl grew up two parents who loved her (or at least one parent who loved her and another who put on a good show) and never had to worry about incest or child marriage or not being able to choose whom she was going to spend the rest of her life with. Instead, Cheryl’s struggles centered around the fact that Jason was the golden boy in the family. He was the heir to the company, the apple of his mother’s eye, everybody’s favorite. It was a matter of jealousy and comparing herself to him and trying to live up to her parent’s expectations.

As far as Nana Rose goes, I think it’s clear that there’s no love lost between her and Penelope. In S1, Nana expressed views that indicated she regarded Penelope with contempt. In S2, she told Penelope she should have drowned her children at birth and pulled her hand away from her when Penelope initiated contact with her at Clifford’s will reading. That’s how much Nana hates Penelope– she won’t even accept affection from her.

Now, Cheryl seems to like Nana Rose and has often spoken favorably of her, but there has been no indication Nana reciprocates those feelings. The only time she’s ever expressed an opinion about Cheryl was when she told Penelope that she should have drowned Jason and Cheryl at birth “like a basket of kittens”. This was in response to Cheryl claiming Penelope had no skills besides being a terrible mother. Personally, I don’t think Nana gives a white about Cheryl or her well-being. I can, however, see her having played nice with Cheryl just to tick Penelope off. There is very little I would put past a woman who adopted an eight-year-old girl just to abuse her and raise her as a child bride for her son.