#like i truly get the trojan war now

[roaringroa]

just saw the most beautiful girl i’ve ever seen in my life like 10 minutes ago i am literally still shaking and i didn’t even interact with her

[greekmythcomix]

How I teach the Iliad in highschool:

I’ve taught the Iliad for over a decade, I’m literally a teacher, and I can even spell ‘Iliad’, and yet my first instinct when reading someone’s opinions about it is not to drop a comment explaining what it is, who ‘wrote’ it, and what that person’s intention truly was.

Agh. <the state of Twitter>

The first thing I do when I am teaching the Iliad is talk about what we know, what we think we know, and what we don’t know about Homer:

We know -

- 0

We think we know -

- the name Homer is a person, possibly male, possibly blind, possibly from Ionia, c.8th/9th C BCE.

- composed the Iliad and Odyssey and Hymns

We don’t know -

- if ‘Homer’ was a real person or a word meaning singer/teller of these stories

- which poem came first

- whether the more historical-sounding events of these stories actually happened, though there is evidence for a similar, much shorter, siege at Troy.

And then I get out a timeline, with suggested dates for the ‘Trojan war’ and Iliad and Odyssey’s estimated composition date and point out the 500ish years between those dates. And then I ask my class to name an event that happened 500 years ago.

They normally can’t or they say ‘Camelot’, because my students are 13-15yo and I’ve sprung this on them. Then I point out the Spanish Armada and Qu. Elizabeth I and Shakespeare were around then. And then I ask how they know about these things, and we talk about historical record.

And how if you don’t have historical record to know the past, you’re relying on shared memory, and how that’s communicated through oral tradition, and how oral tradition can serve a second purpose of entertainment, and how entertainment needs exciting characteristics.

And we list the features of the epic poems of the Iliad and Odyssey: gods, monsters, heroes, massive wars, duels to the death, detailed descriptions of what armour everyone is wearing as they put it on. (Kind of like a Marvel movie in fact.)

And then we look at how long the poems are and think about how they might have been communicated: over several days, when people would have had time to listen, so at a long festival perhaps, when they’re not working. As a diversion.

And then I tell them my old and possibly a bit tortured simile of ‘The Pearl of Myth’:

(Here’s a video of The Pearl of Myth with me talking it through in a calming voice: https://youtu.be/YEqFIibMEyo?sub_confirmation=1

And after all that, I hand a student at the front a secret sentence written on a piece of paper, and ask them to whisper it to the person next to them, and for that person to whisper it to the next, and so on. You’ve all played that game.

And of course the sentence is always rather different at the end than it was at the start, especially if it had Proper nouns in it (which tend to come out mangled). And someone’s often purposely changed it, ‘to be funny’.

And we talk about how this is a very loose metaphor for how stories and memory can change over time, and even historical record if it’s not copied correctly (I used to sidebar them about how and why Boudicca used to be known as ‘Boadicea’ but they just know the former now, because Horrible Histories exists and is awesome)

And after all that, I remind them that what we’re about to read has been translated from Ancient Greek, which was not exactly the language it was first written down in, and now we’re reading it in English.

And that’s how my teenaged students know NOT TO TAKE THE ILIAD AS FACT.

(And then we read the Iliad)

[mangalho]

Ex-warbot OC

They don’t have names yet.

The two bots with the scary faces were specifically made for war, and now that it’s over, they still maintained their original ‘warface’ even though it has stigma associated to it. Many robots changed their faceplates post-war, as it made it easier to find jobs and not get into unnecessary conflict.

The sleeker looking guy used to be in their company, though he wasn’t made in the same factory as them; he isn’t their ’batch-mate’.

After the war he completely modified his frame, and now has an idol career. He desperately wats to erase his past, as people (and robots alike) will respond better to a ‘new’ and untainted idol.

The two warface bots are “brother and sister” and they do odd jobs here and there to make ends meet and to be able to afford things they want. Rich people hire them as bouncers a lot since they are a symbol of terrible times. Sometimes they earn 15k in one night for just one gig it’s crazy. They both really love clothes since it distances them from their body’s original purpose while simultaneously not erasing their past. Also they look cute and cool!

The idol bot once meets the warfaces by chance in the street and pretends he doesn’t know them AGAHAKALAK I think he’s insane… completely erasing your past and the person you were is psychopathic to me idk. Anyway

There arent a lot of warfaces going around anymore. since they either died during the war or changed their frames. Pre-war bots were re-fitted during the conflicts and just had to go back to their former unweaponized frames after it was all over so they’re fine.  All of these robots can download information and i want that type of learning to mostly disappear if its deleted, but if they learn things like we do or experience real events, those memories and skills can’t really truly be erased; if they do try erasing them, they will still remember them, just not with HD video clarity, which brings them immense suffering sometimes. “How to people live like this?!” Well buddy it sucks idk we all cope

Newly minted robots are wack because they don’t exactly have a ‘soul’ yet they just do things they’re supposed to do, but after some time, all of them actually develop real awareness and shit… my war bots had like a 78% chance of dying everyday when they were activated, but they survived and attained sentience at like one year post birth and they wised up rly fast after that. They remember their first year, but they describe it as a ‘weird haze’

These robots feel pain so they wont like dive into a hole or damage themselves too much. Self preservation means longer-lived machines which means less repair costs and less human lives on the line as well.. slay !!!

While the conflicts went on, most robots achieved sentience and decided to stop fighting so there was like a robots rights movement and eventually the war stopped altogether and now the robots have a salary and a normal life mostly. They arent organics, so they need other things. They are solar powered and need oil sometimes and also they need new nanomachines once in a while like we need vaccines. Get your boosters… its not just tetanus and coronavirus anymore now they gotta think about like..the trojan horse 9000

I want them to have this aversion to organic things dying bc they are universally gross. Like they dont like seeing living-machines die either but a rat being squished by a car is also gross!

There are probably some tensions between humans and robots but like i kinda get it bc i wouldnt mess with a guy who has like lead pipes for arms. also most robots ARE normal but some are insane idk 🙆‍♀️🤷‍♀️ just  like people are.

 mine are normal tho they’re just vibing 💖🗣🤙

[frogwiththephatahh]

I really like the Leveling System in God Games

I think it's really interesting how Athena's trial is written. She's the goddess of wisdom, so everyone, including Zeus, knew she was going to use her wits to convince each of them. And Zeus seems to have set up each God in the order of easier to hardest.

Only for it to backfire in his face.

Apollo's up first. And honestly, I don't think he wanted to be here for the sake of arguing against Odysseus. He literally opens up his first with, "you all know I'm a fan of catchy songs." Which is a very fitting thing for the god of music to say. I think, no matter what Athena said, Apollo was going to agree just for the sake of being included in a catchy song. But I don't think Zeus knew this.

Obviously, he would know Apollo's intentions- being part of a song. But Apollo says a "catchy" song. Not just a song. I think Zeus believed he'd come up with an argument in order to get more time in the song. But Apollo, as a true enjoyer of music, would know there's only so long he can stretch his time before the song lost it's catchiness. And he's right. His part is an earworm, even if it's short.

Then there's disciplined, strict Hephaestus. Who has a very solid argument against Ody. "Why should I give him my support? He sacrificed his own cohorts." Odysseus doesn't deserve mercy because he showed no mercy to his own men. This is a good case, and one Zeus probably agrees with. But the thing about Hephaestus is that I don't think he was EVER on Zeus' side to begin with. Instead, he seems more like he was waiting for Athena to give an answer, daring her to prove him wrong. And she gave him a satisfying enough answer for him. Yes, Odysseus sacrificed his crew, but they also disobeyed him multiple times, and then literally stabbed him in the back. And that's also a valid argument. Hephaestus isn't hard to please.

Now the levels are getting harder. We're at Aphrodite. Leaning more into the mythology itself rather than the characterizations we're given in Epic, Aphrodite is notoriously a very vain, very prideful goddess. Just like Zeus, she wouldn't want to change her mind so easily. And, famously, she was also one of the only gods to sit out on the Trojan War, seemingly because of a disdain for conflict. Which is why Athena mentioning the war and fighting doesn't do anything to pierce Aphrodite's shield.

Aphrodite is the goddess of love. So of course her argument mentions Odysseus hurting the people he loves. It's interesting, however, that she specifically mentions his mother and not any of his crew, friends, or his wife and son. I think this actually says a lot of Anticlea. "Claimed to love his mother, but let her die of a broken heart." None of the rest of Ody's family is "heart broken." Penelope and Telemachus still have hope that Odysseus will return. They're still alive, fighting every day to keep his place as king, even in the face of adversaries who want to hurt them. But Anticlea can no longer do that. Her disappointed that she waited so long to see her son, only for him to never make it home, must be immeasurable. And according to Aphrodite, Odysseus did this on purpose by antagonizing Polyphemus.

Is this a good argument on Aphrodite's part? No, not really. Obviously, it was stupid of Odysseus to reveal his name, but he wasn't doing it to purposefully spite the cyclops. We know this. He was doing it as a warning, so that Polyphemus would always remember what happens when he chooses not to have mercy. It's a good sentiment, on Odysseus' part.

What's interesting about Aphrodite is that we never see Athena truly convince her. There is that moment right before Ares enters where Athena asks her to reconsider her decision. I, personally, think that Athena was going to mention Odysseus' other loves- his wife and son. And Ares choosing this exact moment to interject is most certainly planned.

It's not that Athena was using "old tricks." It's that Aphrodite was about to start agreeing with her.

Ares' part is by far the most interesting to me- because he's the most right! "What kind of sick coward holds back his powers while his friends get devoured?" We've seen Odysseus think his way out of tight spots before. We know he could have spent longer trying to find a way around Scylla. Ares knows this, too.

And the way Athena goes about convincing him otherwise is fascinating to me. She could mention that Ody is "just a man." He can't possibly be expected to have the energy to think his way out of every situation. By the time he gets to Scylla, he's exhausted after three years at sea. Of course he wouldn't be thinking clearly. But Athena knows Ares wouldn't care about this.

Instead, she appeals to Ares' on a more human level. "You want more bloodshed? Then set him free!" Ares, as the literal god of bloodshed, would love that shit. Now, I've seen Ares be called a hypocrite over this, as he was literally just talking about how Ody let blood shed when it didn't need to be.

But it's actually fitting. Ares isn't just the god of bloodshed and violence, but the god of war. Odysseus standing by and letting his ALLIES die is shameful to Ares. That's not how you win a war. You don't sacrifice the many for the good of the few. Odysseus instead killing enemies as a means to get home is a much more honorable act than letting his comrades die. It's the message Ares has probably been wanting to scream in Odysseus' face for three years.

I think this is why Ares is so far up. Because honestly, it doesn't take MUCH for him to agree with Athena. But that "much" takes a lot to get to. Because anyone who didn't know Ares would try to be actually reasonable, and point out Odysseus' circumstances and why he came to make the decisions he did. Ares is Athena's brother. And her rival god of war. She knows him. And Zeus underestimated that.

Then we come to Hera. This is speculation, but I think Hera is in the same boat as Hephaestus. She was always willing to agree with Athena, she just wanted to see what kind of argument Athena could come up with. But unlike Hephaestus, she's hard to please. Athena's first tactic is going all in, giving the reason why she, personally, is drawn to Odysseus. "He's got the mind of a genius." To which Hera answers with, "Try Harder." She immediately sees through Athena, and knows she just named the first good trait that came to her mind. Throughout her verse, Hera is waiting for Athena to give her "one good reason." One good trait, is what she's looking for.

This one is also interesting because it takes a moment for Athena to appeal to Hera specifically, like what she did with Ares. "Never once has he cheated on his wife." Which is a hilarious dig! For those out of loop, Hera is the wife of Zeus, a serial adulterer. Zeus has more children with mortal women than he does with Hera herself. So of course she'd be against cheating. But THEN you remember that Hera is also the goddess of marriage. So of course she's won over by the mention of Odysseus' faithfulness to his wife and family.

I don't remember who said it, but I do recall a post mentioning that it's strange Athena didn't immediately mention Odysseus' family and his need to get back to them. I think this was actually smart on her part. Hera could have easily shot back with, "okay, but what about all the men he let die who also had families and wives waiting for them?" So I don't really think that argument would have worked anyway.

Zeus is technically the final level, but I don't think he thought of himself like that. At the beginning of God Games, Zeus names all the other gods then says, "OR me." That doesn't mean, Apollo OR Hephaestus Or Aphrodite Or Ares Or Hera Or Zeus. It means Apollo, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera OR Zeus. As in, convince the other gods, or just try to convince me.

Zeus sees himself as just as hard to convince as all the other gods combined. And he's pretty much right. Considering he denies Athena's wishes, even when she won the game.

[specialagentartemis]

I like the version of Odysseus’s story where he was not actually interested in marrying Helen. He showed up to Woo Helen and try to win her hand in marriage less because he actually wanted to and more because as the unmarried crown prince of Ithaca it would be an insult to Helen, Helen’s father the king of Sparta, and Helen’s future husband to publicly not care. But he knew he wouldn’t be chosen and was not trying. Vying for Helen’s hand was a diplomatic duty he was tolerating for politics.

Of course when he got to Sparta he met Helen’s cousin Penelope, fell head over heels for her, and when Helen chose Menelaus he went ohhhh nooo I’m so sad, what a loss, truly, I am being so honest about my disappointment right now, anyway now that I’m officially single hey Penelope :)

Which I think adds an underexplored element to attempt to get out of participating in the Trojan War. The thousand ships were launched not out of personal feelings of righteousness by all those Greek kings, but rather, because before Helen announced her choice of a husband, her father made all the suitors swear a sacred oath that whoever she chose, every man would accept that choice and defend her husband and restore her honor if anyone tried to kill her husband and abduct Helen for themselves. It was intended to stop Helen’s choice from immediately becoming a bloodbath, because there was a real threat that whoever she chose would immediately be killed by another jealous suitor who was rejected. But of course, Helen was not abducted by an unsuccessful suitor right then and there—she was abducted by Paris like nine years later. And Menelaus called on that oath that all the suitors made.

So you can imagine Odysseus, who never particularly wanted to marry Helen and was not trying that hard to win her hand and had no intention of abducting her to be his wife and was happy marrying Penelope and going back to Ithaca, getting called up by Menelaus, saying you swore the Suitors’ Oath! You need to go to war for me!

Odysseus who never even wanted to be a suitor in the first place, who never particularly wanted to marry Helen and did not care who she chose as her husband… I can imagine him staring at Menelaus’s messenger, going, what does this have to do with me? I never wanted to be part of all this in the first place!

[major-comet]

i think the reason why i don’t really care so much about paramount insisting on telling new stories with legacy characters is because i see the tos characters in the same way that i see like, spider-man, alice in wonderland, dracula, romeo & juliet, james bond, etc.

my favorite take on peter pan is probably different than yours, your favorite version of spock may be different than mine. but they’re all peter pan, and they’re all spock, and isn’t it so cool to have so many different interpretations of these characters and stories?

i want there to be a new guy playing a new version of jim kirk every now and then, in the same way i think it’s fun that every few years we’ve got a new guy playing batman, or a new take on wolverine in the comics. i want star trek to join the canon of classic stories and characters, to be adapted over and over again as the years go on. i want to get to a point where we’re getting adaptations of jim and spock that are so loose they’re barely recognizable and stand completely on their own, like what house md is to sherlock holmes.

200 years from now, after society has collapsed and there’s no way to truly engage with TOS in its original form, i want people to be telling stories about the USS enterprise and the brave crew who ran it the way we tell stories about the trojan war.

there has to be a balance of course, and i do agree that the focus should always be on creating new characters to tell stories with. but im never going to be upset at a new take on TOS. i don’t think it’s such a bad thing to keep these legacy characters alive. after all, we’ve been doing it for centuries.

[sunder-the-gold]

'Epic: The Musical' confuses me

So one day, YouTube decided to let me know that someone apparently did a Hamilton-style musical play retelling of The Odyssey (with a little bit of The Iliad at the start).

Here are two of my favorite 'animatics' for my favorite song.

I can see why these YouTubers would be so inspired. The music, the emotional performances of the singers, the lyrics... It's an experience that sticks in your mind.

But I've got a LOT to say about what doesn't work for me.

Cruel Vengeance or Ruthlessness Teaching?

What baffles me is the central thesis of the play, which is encapsulated in this song but which is equally strong in other parts. Especially one later in the play, "Monster".

It's not that the thesis "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" that confuses me. It's a very similar sentiment to "Mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent."

I understand the difference between ruthlessness and cruelty. Ruthlessness is simply about getting the job done without regard for mercy or sadism, but cruelty is entirely about indulging in sadism without regard for getting the job done.

Indeed, while Poseidon is clearly engaging in deliberate cruelty, at no point does he accuse Odysseus of cruelty. He accuses Odysseus of not being ruthlessness enough.

One actually starts to wonder if Poseidon truly intended to kill Odysseus. Why bother trying to teach Odysseus that "mercy has a price", why constantly hammer him with the message "you need to be more ruthless", if Poseidon really didn't intend for Odysseus to survive to apply that lesson later? That ambiguity is one point of confusion.

Why Odysseus?

A bigger point of confusion is why the play's writer is trying to apply this moral to Odysseus at all.

In the traditional version of the story, Odysseus's mistake against the cyclops Polyphemus was letting his anger and pride get the better of him. He cruelly taunted the blinded cyclops, even foolishly revealing his real name and identity to magnify the man-eater's humiliation.

Aside from that one act of cruelty, Odysseus was extremely ruthless. He and his men couldn't simply kill Polyphemus in his sleep, because they needed him to move the giant rock with which he'd blocked the cave's entrance. And after they escaped, they didn't turn around to finish the giant off because he was still a powerful giant, and there were more giants on the island.

But in 'Epic: The Musical', the playwright tries to twist things around and doesn't really succeed. One of Odysseus' surviving best friends urges Odysseus to lead the men back and finish the cyclops off.

But Odysseus urges caution, and he's still proven correct when the other cyclopes on the island answer Polyphemus' cries of pain and suffering. If the humans had turned back, they would have died even if Polyphemus alone didn't prove to be too much of a threat.

Then the play breaks WILDLY from tradition by having Athena herself make an appearance, where she too scolds Odysseus for not turning around and trying to finish Polyphemus off. And Odysseus refuses not out of pragmatism or caution, but out of MERCY.

Now, Odysseus has always been capable of mercy, but traditionally he has never extended mercy to a bloodthirsty enemy.

Yet when Odysseus reveals his true identity, it's not because he's viciously angry or proudly smug. He twists the metaphorical knife in an explicit bid to magnify any regret Polyphemus might feel for killing and eating any other innocent travelers who find his home.

It's only later, during "Monster", that Odysseus the Wise, the Clever, the Cunning, realizes that Polyphemus never felt anything like guilt or shame for his actions.

I'm not convinced that Odysseus was the right character to need this play's thesis taught to him. And my opinion is reinforced by the fact that the playwright needed to turn the minor character of Polites into the most unbelievable caricature of a Disney Princess... despite having been a soldier in the Trojan War, and presumably part of the Trojan Horse ploy.

"Greet the world with open arms" should not be something you can say to the man who tricked the Trojans with the ploy that came to codify the phrase "Trojan Horse".

What is 'Mercy' supposed to be?

Going back to Poseidon and ruthlessness and mercy, Poseidon repeatedly tells Odysseus that he needs to stop fighting "to save lives", being "far too nice", merciful, and hopeful.

"So close your heart / The world is dark and / Ruthlessness is mercy upon (ourselves)"

While Odysseus later reasons in "Monster" that being merciful to not only himself but the people who depend upon him requires him to show no mercy to anyone or anything that threatens them, Poseidon doesn't make that distinction at all.

Poseidon doesn't distinguish between different forms or degrees of mercy, he denigrates all mercy with blanket statements.

He doesn't accuse Odysseus of fighting to save the lives of his intractable enemies; his accusation almost seems to apply to any of Odysseus' efforts to save the lives of his men.

Not to mention how the lyrics "You are the worst kind of good / Cause you're not even great" sound so much like "you're an idiot to strive for a moral perfection despite your imperfect human nature; you should just settle for being petty and unreasonably hostile".

Heck, Poseidon at points sounds angrier that Odysseus refused to kill his son than that Odysseus blinded him. That’s how much he seems to hate the very idea of mercy.

Conclusion

I think this play might have something worthwhile to say about recognizing that the world is a hostile place and that unconditional vulnerability, trust, and mercy is only going to lead you to ruin. That you WILL meet people who are wholeheartedly and unreasonably determined to ruin your day.

But everything I see feels like a cynical, poisonous take on that idea.

Or else it is a mixed bag of good ideas and questionable execution by someone who was confused about how to tell the story they wanted in a way that made sense.

[vampirecatboy]

Hello yes tell us about cthonic gods please

ok ok so

clarification for those that need it: Cthonic deities in Greek Mythology are gods and goddesses and entities that reside in the Underworld

first off i want to say that Hades game was such a godsend for me, because to have such a popular, well-made piece of media that is all about my special interest is like the best gift an autistic person can get

i'll start with my two favorite boys: Hypnos and Thanatos

they are twins, first of all, two sons of Nyx, personification of night, and Erebus, who is darkness (i don't know if Hades game ever touched on this but Hypnos' mom was literally within shouting distance)

Thanatos hates mortals because they hate him (he is not the god of death he just is death, and not many mortals like death) and he hates the Olympians because they can't die, juries out on if he hates his own twin but there is this really cute painting that shows them asleep together, so i would guess ol Thanny is fond of his brother

now also the thing about Thanatos is that he is the personification of peaceful death, it's the furies who deal with violent death, like he's giving people a peaceful passing and they still hate him. death is death i suppose

also i know Thanatos is a love interest in Hades game, but in actual mythology he had no consorts and no children, truly aroace misanthropic king

now onto Hypnos, the personification of sleep, who did fuck, and had at least three children but i'll get to them in a sec

he lives in a grotto on the river Lethe, the river of forgetfulness, one of the five rivers of the Underworld (the others are the Styx, of course, Cocytus, Phlegethon, and Acheron), he has his own court of minor gods and goddesses, including one of my personal favorites, Aergia, goddess of sloth and laziness, truly a "yes girl give us nothing!" moment honestly

there's also this story that i love, related to a mortal man who was also the lover of Selene, the moon. his name was Endymion, and in the more well known story, he was so beautiful when he slept, that Selene wanted to keep him in a state of eternal sleep, and they had 50 children, somehow, but the version of the story that i like (for reasons that will be very obvious lol) is that it was actually Hypnos who fell in love with him for the same reason as Selene, so he put Endymion into a state of eternal sleep, specifically with his eyes open, because he loved gazing into them (gay ass) no clue if their relationship was ever consummated like with Selene but one can imagine, this is Greek mythology after all

now Endymion wasn't the only lover Hypnos ever had, he also fell in love with one of Hera's graces (attendants?) whose name was Pasithea, and showing some remarkable restraint for a divine man in Greek myth, instead of abducting her or taking her by force, he asked Hera if he could marry her, and she agreed on the condition that he help turn the tide of the Trojan war (which is not my special interest so do not ask me about it, i know nothing lol)

with Pasithea, Hypnos had three sons, the most famous of which was Morpheus, god of dreams, his other two sons were Phobetor and Phantasos, but they all represent different aspects of dreaming, objects, beasts and people. Morpheus was specifically people in dreams, but he was the clear favorite and sort of took up the whole mantle from the other two Oneiroi

actually, addendum because i looked it up to check and the Oneiroi are the sons of Somnus, Hypnos' Roman equivalent, in Greek mythology they are his brothers. the rest of that is accurate though

so to summarize: Thanatos, aroace king, Hypnos, respectful if a bit weird bisexual, Aergia, just hangin' honestly

the twins have been depicted many ways, sometimes old men, sometimes babies, but i think most often they ended up being depicted as epheboi, teenagers

also it is very important that you know that Hypnos has head wings in a lot of his depictions, i forget if they depicted that in Hades but honestly who cares his design slaps either way

onto the most interesting thing for me about Hades game: Zagreus. he's obscure in Greek mythology, like all of Hades' alleged children, Macaria and Melinoe being the two i can remember. some scholars believe Zagreus to actually be Dionysus, because Dionysus also has ties to the underworld, i think in relation to his mother, like he had to rescue her from there or something? kind of a reverse of what Zagreus is trying to do in the game

i.... i think that's all the info i have to dump

i will not advocate for the accuracy of everything in this ramble (especially not the Zagreus/Dionysus bit, the stance among scholars might've changed since i acquired this information lol) but i certainly had fun thank you so much for asking me about this

[gay-edwardian]

Because I could only have 12 options, honorary mention: The Trojan War (Cassandra)

This is not about the music, your favourite song, or anything. This is literally which song in the album has the best/weirdest/most interesting plot.

If you think I got one of the plots wrong, that's fine. You can let me know if you can be nice about it, but if you want to be an ass, keep it to yourself.

Actual song titles if you need a reminder below the cut:

The Visitors

Head Over Heels

When All is Said and Done

Soldiers

I Let the Music Speak

One of Us

Two for the Price of One

Slipping Through My Fingers

Like an Angel Passing Though My Room

Should I Laugh Or Cry

The Day Before You Came

Under Attack

[littlesparklight]

What frustrates me a lot is that it certainly feels like basically any other character (and their relationships) attached to the Trojan war cycle can be interpreted positively. Can be woobified or excused, have their questionable to awful actions explained away, softened, or downright ignored.

Except for Paris.

When it comes to Paris it's like the only thing acceptable [here on Tumblr] is the most ungenerous, flat and negative of interpretations of his character, of his actions, of his relationships.

But whatever, I guess. Forget Paris for a moment; let's talk about Helen.

Because like---

Obviously, it's a valid angle to go with "she was kidnapped". It's certainly a specter present in some texts, and in later versions the absolute route taken, even when Helen also is attracted to Paris. But it's certainly not the absolute only possible and somehow the most reasonable and correct interpretation. Not when a large chunk of the oldest sources is clearly leaning into "Helen did something blameworthy", and it's blameworthy because she had the agency to do something that would be considered blameworthy.

And again, obviously, in a lot of these sources "Helen did/was able to do something blameworthy" (and thus equally able to refrain, which is why it's blameworthy), is used for misogynistic and sexist views.

But not always, and not in all of them. There's a whole world of difference between the inferred character and actions of Helen in, say, Alcaeus' Thetis poem, and Sappho 16. Both, however, lean into "Helen acted".

And the Iliad itself has Helen blame herself.

There's really only two possibilities to get out of the Iliad's situation. Either she did do something/had the agency to do something that she now regrets, and thus has cause to blame herself, or she did not do anything/didn't have the agency to do anything and had it done to her instead, and is blaming herself for literally no reason.

(She blames herself even to those who do not care, and to whom it gives her no social advantage to put herself down in front of, like Aphrodite.)

I'm just not ever going to prefer a version where Helen's potential or actual agency is taken away, especially when that isn't actually the only version that exists. Particularly not when 'she was kidnapped' usually means she's turned into an acted-upon victim who is passively suffering for twenty years. Is it truly such an unconscionable crime to being attracted to someone else than her spouse? Sleeping with said someone else, willingly?

Something which basically any male character in Greek myth either has done or will certainly not catch social opprobrium for doing if he decided to do so, because they are a man.

Of course, Helen doesn't just potentially sleep with Paris - leaving Sparta is a lot more than that. But there's a world of possibilities in how you have Helen leave, if she's indeed attracted to Paris. A flighty ~lol I don't care about the consequences~ is one of the most simple and boring ones, for example. (But again, the language used in, say, Proclus' summary of the Kypria or the Bibliotheke, to take two works at opposite end of the spectrum, is not really "forceful abduction".)

Further, "Aphrodite LITERALLY tricked her/sex-brainwashed her and she stopped being attracted to Paris basically upon arrival in Troy" and similar sentiments isn't really what is meant when "trickery" is mentioned in the text. It's all about how seduction and sex in itself is at some level viewed as "trickery".

It's just deeply fucking frustrating that it's apparently preferable to stick Helen in literal captivity for ten-twenty years and be sexually assaulted for that length of time than applying some nuance and complexity to the situation. Even if - maybe especially if - at the end of the war, while Helen is still attracted to Paris (because she is), she doesn't like him very much - those are different things, after all.

[seeminglyseph]

Ares and Hephaestus are Zeus' least favourite major god sons, Aphrodite and Hera were the most difficult to convince probably, though Aphrodite's argument was cut off by Ares and he is mostly just a conflicting view of war with Athena, and those two exist as... a very fascinating character foil that will spin into wild speculation if I don't stop now, so they have a pretty straightforward conversation, and Aphrodite gave up on her point pretty quickly once Ares was convinced. Hephaestus basically said, "I don't know that guy. Why so I care?" And Athena responded that if he is stuck on an island with Calypso that Odysseus will not get a chance to forge anything new, and Hephaestus is like "yeah sure fuck it." Though honestly Hephaestus and Athena run on the same wavelength most of the time so it was just a conversation between the two Olympian holders of the braincell. Both crafters and makers of things. Weaver to forger.

Hera took an actual like... debate, same as Aphrodite, and I do love throwing Jason under the keel. The "you can do better than that" is a nice show, Athena is the daughter of Metis, though some myths have the belief being that Zeus birthed her from his head spontaneously without a mother. But wither way, even though Athena is not Zeus' daughter by Hera, she's not a product of his betrayal on her. Hera's vengeance against Zeus' illegitimate children is often done because she doesn't have the power to get direct revenge on Zeus. But there could easily be a different relationship with Athena. She can be friendly with Athena and keep face. This can truly just be a game, so Hera is being playful and kinda rooting for her to take Zeus down a peg the whole time.

Apollo, among the other children of Zeus, is the only other one that Zeus actually likes. Sometimes, Apollo is described as being Zeus' favourite.

And was very notably on the Trojan side of the Trojan war. Dunno if that will come up at all, but hey. Figured I should mention it.

But the only argument he gives is that as a lover of music, it's a shame a bunch of Sirens died. And with the comfort that there's plenty of fish in the sea and Odysseus did what had to be done, he agrees without further protest. It almost feels too simple...

Though personally, I think Apollo has golden child fatigue, and all of the children have their own personal resentments that they never felt able to bring forward in a united front before. And that Athena standing up to Zeus is a like... "Oh, you can do that." Moment for the group of them, scapegoats and golden child and wife who's given up at this point.

And, Aphrodite who has been used as a pawn because the fact that she was able to control him a little was too much for him to handle so she had to be wed to someone she didn't love. Which just humiliated Hephaestus and made Ares and Aphrodite miserable... but that is projecting a little.

[classicschronicles]

Hi lovelies,

Okay so my first A-level is on Tuesday and it is the World of the Hero paper, basically the Iliad and the Aeneid. I was getting on with my Aeneid revision when I realised that, other than the fact that I am in love with him, I actually don’t know that much about Turnus. So today I’m going to try and write about Turnus in the hopes that it forces me to go and read up on him. (Also I need to revise my Homeric allusion and the comparisons between the Greek and Roman hero so imma throw that in too).

Okay so to start off with some basic info, Turnus is the Prince of the Rutilian Tribe and the leader of the antagonistic forces against the Trojans. Like all main heroes, he is a great warrior and superior to everyone else in combat. Now despite all of this, it is important to note that Turnus doesn’t actually want to fight. Let me explain.

Turnus is engaged to Lavinia, the princess of Latium, a neighbouring Italian tribe. Aeneas arrives and to cut a long story short her dad changes his mind and says “nah you’re gonna marry Aeneas instead”. Also random but Turnus is also meant to be the best looking of all the Italians, so smash ig. But anyways, when Aeneas steals his fiancé, Turnus doesn’t really care, he lets him have her and makes his peace with it because he knows there is nothing he can do against fate. However, surprise surprise, enter Juno. She’s all like “nawh come on I need someone to fight the Trojans bc I hate peace”, so she sends the Fury Alecto to infect Turnus with a lust for war. So anyways, he wakes up the next day and he’s like “hey that’s my fiancé” and proceeds to start the second Trojan war to win her back. If this sounds oddly familiar, it should.

The purpose of Turnus’ character in the second half of the Aeneid is very similar to Dido’s character in the first half. Like Dido, is an individual who has been corrupted by the gods- more specially Juno- and lacks any autonomy. Therefore, he follows what he thinks is his will to the point of excess. Much like Dido’s furor for lust, Turnus’ furor is militant. It is Turnus who then goes on to raise the flag of war and instigate chaos. When Alecto burns him with a desire for war he begins to exhibit multiple character flaws, such as disorder. His individualism is diametrically opposed to Aeneas who is dutiful and embodies pietas, supposedly.

Book 9 is truly the point where we get a sense of just how deep Alecto’s influence on Turnus is, as he becomes depraved and thirsty for blood. Any sense of the moral compass he demonstrated in book 7 is gone as he flaunts the death of his Trojan enemies by raising their heads on spears for all the Trojans to see. Aeneas, by the way, is missing for all of book 9 so Turnus has no equal and therefore becomes the most deadly man in the war. As soon as Turnus learns of Aeneas’ absence he leads his army towards the Trojan camp and when he can’t find a way in, he sets fire to their ships (the ships are immortal or some shit tho so they’re fine). Night then descends, and the Latins attack the Trojan fortresses. Turnus then sees a high tower standing just outside the main gate which he sets on fire and then they get in and kill a bunch of Trojans. The Trojans then chase the Latins away but when they seal the gates they accidentally lock Turnus inside with them. A Trojan is then like “you can’t win in the camp of your enemies”. To which Turnus then says this really arrogantly hot thing, ssshhhh I know he’s red flag but it’s like one of my favourite colours. Virgil writes, “Turnus replied, smiling calmly: ‘If there is any courage in you, then come and fight. You will soon be able to tell Priam that here too you found an Achilles!’”. Eventually he does realise that he is outnumbered and he escaped.

In book 10, Turnus carries on with his slaughter spree. Turnus spots Aeneas’ returning ships and leads his troops towards the beach so that he can confront them, battle commences. Pallas fights a little too well and attracts the attention of Turnus. Turnus challenges Pallas to a duel and Pallas, desperate to prove himself, agrees. There’s this really funny bit where he’s fighting Turnus but stops to ogle him (“Pallas marvelled at these proud commands and stood amazed at the sight of Turnus, running his eyes all over that mighty body,”- me too bro). There is then this great Homeric smilie about Turnus as a lion and Pallas a bull. Turnus kills Pallas and steals his sword belt, which is actually Aenas, as a prize. The stealing of the sword belt is the action that later seals his death. Again, if this is sounding a little familiar, it should. Aeneas hears about what Turnus has done and goes berserk, but Juno asks that Jupiter spare Turnus (he can’t do this but he does agree to prolong his life a little). Anyways, Juno created a phantom Aeneas and so Turnus goes chasing after it and follows it onto some ships which then set sail and send him away from Aeneas. This is that classic argument of are the gods self seeking? In this instance yes, Juno humiliates Turnus by making his follow a phantom Aeneas so that when he escapes he looks like a coward. She protects his physically, yes, but his honour is shot to pieces. Also she doesn’t actually care for Turnus, she just cares that he can keep fighting the Trojans.

So then book 11 rolls around. Messengers arrive from the Latin camp and ask for a 12 says truce so that both sides and can bury their dead. The Latins all think that Turnus should fight for Lavinia in single combat against Aeneas rather than risk any more deaths. A man called Drances blames the whole war on Turnus arrogance, at which point I wanna point out that Turnus is a baby girl and that non of this is his fault, but actually Juno and Alecto’s. Turnus, however, says that if the Latins want single combat then he will fight Aenas without fear. The way he says this, though, is very sarcastic and arrogant and exemplified how reckless he can be. But at this point, Trojans start marching towards the city so the Latins have to fight again.

Now the dreaded book 12. Turnus decides that he has to fight Aeneas in single combat, and when urged to surrender by Lavinia’s father he declines (again sound familiar?). Juno worries about Turnus because she thinks Aeneas might outmatch him and so she calls Juturna (Turnus’ divine sister) to watch out for her brothers safety. Juturna, however, doesn’t want her brother to fight in the duel and so she disguises herself as a Latin officer in order to break the truce and start all out war. Some stuff happens, Aeneas gets shot in the leg and has to leave and it gives Turnus some renewed hope. Aeneas returns to battle and both he and Turnus kill a lot of men. Turnus then hears cries of suffering from his fellow Italians and calls for the Trojan siege of Latium to end, and for the duel to commence. Okay so quick play by play, Aeneas and Turnus toss sears, Turnus sword breaks at the hilt, Turnus runs from Aeneas, Juturna gives him a real sword. Aeneas then casts a spear which hits Turnus in the leg and Turnus tumbles to the ground. He begs Aeneas for mercy in the name of his father. Aeneas is prepared to show mercy, but remember that sword belt I mentioned earlier. Well Aeneas sees the sword belt and then goes batshit insane and kills Turnus on his knees whilst he begs for mercy.

Okay so now some quick analysis, because apparently I have to be able to do that. The characterisation of Turnus is interesting in that is mirrors Dido. We as readers admire both leaders in the few pages that we see them before they are plagued by the gods. The branding of Turnus with lust for war strips his of any autonomy and from that point in book 7 onwards he looses any semblance of his own characteristics. He goes from being clement and diplomatic to being bloodthirsty and arrogant. And yet, the reader is never truly able to hate him. Much like Dido, we may tire of him sometimes but we always keep a trace of admiration and at times, awe or pity. For example, whilst me may not agree with his actions in the Trojan camp, one cannot deny that they were impressive. But the relief one usually feels when reading about the death of Turnus was not present in Turnus’ death. At that moment in time we feel sorrow for him and admiration that, despite knowing he would not win, he still fought Aeneas. There is one suggestion that Turnus is the anti-hero. The villain we cannot hate, and often find ourselves liking more than the actual hero. That is certainly true for Turnus as there are times that the reader cannot stand Aeneas, for example his human sacrifice and murder of Mezentius in book 10.

The other thing that is really interesting about Turnus is trying to decipher the Homeric allusions that Virgil was trying to demonstrate. Every time I say ‘sounds familiar’ it’s because it is Virgil’s way of making throwbacks to the Iliad. So for example, Turnus (Hector) taking Pallas (Patroclus) sword belt/ armour that belonged to Aeneas (Achilles). But the thing that I find really interesting is the way that Virgil does it. When we read the Iliad, sure there are times when he winds us up, but we don’t hate Achilles at any point. We understand his rampage against the Trojans, we understand (although we might not agree with it) why he did what he did to Hector. But when it comes to Aeneas, do we really even find him that likeable? To be honest, I don’t think so, although your opinion might be different. But a lot of the reason I think for my point of view is because of the characterisation of both Pallas and Turnus as parallels of Patroclus and Hector respectively. What I mean by that is when we read about the death of Pallas it is not nearly as emotional as the death of Patroclus. We see the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, even in death, we spend 16 books of the epic getting to know Patroclus. Whereas, when it comes to Pallas, we know him for about 2 books before he is killed. His character is not developed in the same way. And that’s not to say that Virgil isn’t capable of creating the same level of sorrow, I mean think of the deaths of Nisus and Euryalus who were mentioned all of twice. In all honesty, I think Virgil did this deliberately.

Then there is the question of Turnus and Hector. We feel an immense amount of sympathy for both, but even still we understand Achilles actions far more than Aeneas. Hector stripped Patroclus of his armour, tried to keep the body for the Trojans, flaunts the armour of Achilles, and he does this all of his won accord, not because he is being used by the gods. Turnus, on the other hand, whilst he does take a prize, he doesn’t strip Pallas bare, he simply takes a sword belt. Turnus returns the body to Pallas’ father, he allows 12 days for burial, and on top of that, non of this was of his own will.

I think ultimately, a lot of it comes down to the characterisation of Greek and Roman heroes. Where a Greek hero fights for personal fame and glory and honour, the Roman hero is not as equally motivated by the spoils of war, but rather pietas (duty to the gods, family, and country). And therefore, when Turnus fights we see him as fighting for his people and giving life for his people (roman word- devotio).

Basically, Turnus big slay I love him and icl it is too late for me to say anything more intelligent than that. If you’re still here I hope you learned something new or at least enjoyed my ramblings. Hope you all have a lovely rest of your weekend <3

~Z

[wellbelesbian]

WIP Wednesday Thursday

my notifications must be well and truly busted, because tumblr didn’t bother to tell me that @aroace-genderfluid-sheep @erzbethluna and @confused-bi-queer all tagged me for WIP Wednesday yesterday until now, which is evidently no longer Wednesday. thanks anyway, guys!

but i’ve been staying up until 5 the past few nights engaged in a new WIP, so the petty constraints of linear time won’t stop me!

it’s not Carry On related, but i was tagged on this account so i’ll post it here anyway.

it’s sort of a retelling of the trojan war, except it’s set 18 years later and is all about the aftermath and the survivors. i try to stay mostly true to the sources, but also patch up any holes. like Briseis. she’s a major part of the Iliad, but then we just never find out what happens to her after Achilles dies! what??

it’s told from the perspective of Astyanax, who you may know was the infant son of Hector, the crown prince of Troy, and was thrown from the walls of the city when the war ended. except a lot of sources outside of Homer posit that he didn’t 👀

my Astyanax, who is non binary, was raised by his aunts Oenone, the first wife of Paris, and Cassandra, who also narrowly escaped death. but when Cassandra prophecies that they must make amends with the house of Achilles and Hector’s ghost urges them to find their mother Andromache, they set out an adventure and piece together the aftermath of the war as they go.

so yeah. i’ve spent the past few nights writing a rather long and detailed outline, making character picrews, and creating a big messy family tree. so here’s an excerpt, and i’ll put the family tree below too just for fun.

cw for mentions of rape

“Did Oenone ever tell you I was married?” Cassandra pulls up a handful of grass and twists her fingers in it, looking out to the sea.

“No.” Oenone told me so much about my family. I can recite all 99 of my aunts and uncles, as well as their spouses. But not Cassandra’s. I never knew. I wonder what else she never told me, and why.

“His name was Coroebus. I put off marriage for years. Becoming a priestess helped, and my supposed madness drove plenty of potential suitors away, but there are always men willing to look past an unpleasant wife if the alliance brings them power.” She throws the grass down and mumbles “no, that’s not fair to him. He was a good man.” She takes a deep breath. I wait in silence, not wanting to spook her.

“My parents forced me to marry him eventually. He was a king who came to Troy’s aid, I was their thanks, and they thought he might calm me down. He was gentle, and considerate, so I tried to be good. He listened to me, even if he didn’t believe me. And I never had any visions of what was to become of him, which was a mercy. Not that it mattered. That damned horse showed up just three days after we married. He died protecting me in the temple, and then that brute Ajax…” Her breath catches, she squeezes her eyes shut and shakes her head. “His body was only a few feet away.”

I don’t even know what to say. Everyone suffered that night, death and loss and rape all across the city. I know it, but I can’t wrap my head around the enormity of it. I understand suddenly why it’s so hard for her to look upon the city’s ruins.

At a loss for words, I lean over and wrap my arms around her, letting her rest her head on my shoulder. She laughs brokenly. “I think this is supposed to be the other way around. You’re the baby of the family.” I don’t fight her about it this time. After a few minutes, she pulls away and wipes at her eyes.

“How do you live with it?”

“How do any of us?” She asks incredulously. “Oenone lives in the past, and when she runs out of ways to run from reality she turns into a rock.” She clasps my hands and meets my eyes, darkest brown with a pinprick of red fire dancing deep within. “I’ll tell you my secret. Every morning, when I wake up, I lie there and I list them. Everyone who died, for Troy, for me. My parents, my siblings, Coroebus, the Amazons. And then I get up, and I live that day for them.” I squeeze her hands, and she squeezes them back. “Do you understand? We live for them.”

and here’s the mess of a family tree, with Priam and Hecuba’s other 96 kids not pictured.

[chaosgremlinlivinginyourwalls]

Not so short story about how Avalon met Apollo. :)

I was 16 when I first met him. I had been on my way to Phthia for a visit. I didn't go often so it was special when I did. He had appeared in a shower of golden light. I didn't know who he was at first. If I didn't know better I would have thought he was my father, though the man in front of me had bright blue eyes, not the green my father had. I stopped my horse a few feet away from the man. "Who are you?" I called out. He gave me an odd look as if asking how I didn't know him. "I am Apollo! Surely you've heard of me!" I give the man a blank stare. "It's not as if I knew what your looked like. Can I leave now? I have places to be." I continued to stare at him. Apollo looked as though I had slapped him. "Why would ypu want to leave? I am right here! What else could you possibly be doing that is more important than talking to me!" "Visiting my kingdom," I say simply. " I am the heiress to the throne, but I reside on Mount Pelion because of the foster boys my grandfather takes in, I ride to the city every few weeks to see the last living mortal member of my family. Perhaps you don't remember. Let me jog your memory. My name is Avalon and I am the child of the two men you got killed during the Trojan War." He raised a brow at the statement, "Well, Avalon, you are going to have to be more specific. Many men were killed during that particular war, and many of their deaths could be blamed on me." I glared at the God, not caring if it got me killed. "Achilles. Patroclus. Do those names sound familiar, Lord Apollo? You helped the last prince of Troy kill my father. You are the one who helped the prince shoot an arrow into his back. My father, Patroclus, his death may not have been by your hand, but he is dead all the same." I snapped. Apollo had the decency to look ashamed, "Alright. You don't have to continue, I've got it. Though I do have a question, if I may?" I nod my head sharply. He continues speaking, "How do you exist?" He pauses when he realizes what he said. He quickly fixes his words, "What I mean to say is, well, both your parents were men." "Curious, isn't it? Even I don't fully know how, what I do know is that their ashes had been mixed when they died. Your sister Artemis, Athena, and Aphrodite did something, I'm not sure what. But I was created from what they did. The three of them made me essentially immortal, except it's more like the immortality of the Hunters of Artemis. I can still die. It will just take a great effort." I clear my throat. "Now if you'll excuse me, I do have to get to Phthia before sundown. I have to see my grandfather." I navigate the horse around the God. "Wait!" I stopped once again and turned to look at him. "May I come with you?" I laugh at that. "And why should I let you?" "Because I'm a God." Apollo frowns when I scoff at him. "You do realize that I am considered a goddess? Or have you already forgotten that I am in fact immortal?" I let out a harsh laugh, "You are a tremendously arrogant God, you know that? Yet you are not stupid, just blinded by a want for the things you can't truly have. Or rather the people." "I've heard the stories you know, about your ill-fated lovers." He grimaced as I spoke. "I hope you know I genuinely loved them all." Apollo seemed almost ... sad. It was pitiful really. "I don't doubt that you did, but having the love of a God doesn't always end the best. When Daphne rejected you, you couldn't accept it. So you hunted her down and she was turned into a tree. Your love was her downfall." I sigh. This God had caused so much pain to others, simply because he wanted something. And it was always either taken from him or just refused. "I apologize, but I really do have to be leaving now. You can join me if you like." "Alright then," He says quietly.

constructive criticism is welcomed and appreciated. And I'm sorry that it's all just a block of words. I'm too tired to put it into paragraphs. Hope you enjoyed

[symphonyofsilence]

I was thinking about the reason why the gods and goddesses of love or in the case of Desire of the Endless...well, the endless of Desire, are always trouble. and cruel.

(like, Aphrodite kind of starts the trojan war by promising Helen to Paris, in some myths, Hathor eventually becomes Sekhmet, and Desire is always...you know, Desire.)

I mean love sometimes is indeed trouble but other than that, they’re the gods (or the endless) of love! you’d expect them to be loving and kind. but they’re cruel.

and that, too, could be because of the nature of love and desire. there is this beautiful line about Desire of the endless that says:

“For love is no part of the dreamworld. Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.”

but other than that, I think one possible reason is that. they’re the very personification of love and beauty and desire, they’re desire itself. everyone else desires them. they’re the very end of whatever anyone could want. who could they love and desire?

well, I think, themselves. 

so, they’re narcissists. (I mean. Desire literally has a statue of themself as their realm!) and thereby they lack empathy, treat others poorly, exploit others, do whatever they want without consideration for others, etc...

Desire says that their problem with Dream is that “he thinks his realm is superior to ours.” and since narcissists feel insecure inside, maybe they do think that Morpheus’ land is superior to theirs. maybe deep inside they think that dreaming leads to desire while consciously they want to believe that it’s the other way around,

now what would cause the insecurity?

I think the answer can be found in this very beautiful, amazingly written description of Desire of the Endless:

"Let us pause for a moment, as they descend the grey steps toward Destiny's banqueting hall, to consider the Endless.

Desire is of medium height. It is unlikely that any portrait will ever do Desire justice, since to see her (or him) is to love him (or her), -- passionately, painfully, to the exclusion of all else.

[...]

Desire is everything you have ever wanted. Whoever you are. Whatever you are.

Everything."

I think for all the love they receive, they feel a lack of genuine love and they’re very lonely.

if everyone desires them it’s like no one does. everyone who sees them immediately falls in love with them for “what” they are, not for “who” they are. nobody loves them because of their personalities or who they are inside, but because they’re the essence of desire. they’re created to be loved. destined to be desired.

it’s not like normal situations when people don’t know them or like them so they can get the chance to show their personality and who they are to be loved, people already fall in love with them as soon as they lay eyes on them but they don’t know them. and even if some come to eventually love them truly for who they are inside, how can one differentiate? and even if they, as the gods of love can, I don’t think after thousands of years they care enough to spend that much time with someone and analyze their feelings.

so, when you want people to like you, you act on your best behavior. in their case, when it doesn’t matter how they act, people, not just family, and friends but everyone, will still love them, giving the impression that they don’t really care about their personality and who they are as a person, and their love isn’t true but just a cosmic compulsion, the deities act on their worst behavior to prove that point.

I might be wrong.

but it made me think, does that mean that being the personification of love and beauty and desire would always mean that they’re inevitably destined to fall in love with themself? does falling in love with themself always result in not loving anyone else and narcissism? would that always result in them being cruel and causing trouble? am I making any sense at all?

so many questions...

[rylie-studies]

― november 01, 2021

Hey y’all!! I haven’t posted in like two months, but once again, I have returned! Tbh, these past few months have been a whirlwind and I’ve been trying to get my life together and taking care of a lot of things. I truly can’t believe that this year is almost over; it has flown by so fast and the most overwhelming thing is that I’ll be turning 21 at the end of this month like, huh, what? Anywho, yeah, it has all been a lot but we’re making it through! As for some quick life updates, I’ve been keeping up with Duolingo and listening to Italian songs, trying to come up with a new routine that’s simple and feasible, developing some new healthy habits, and I’ve also been learning a lot through watching videos! 

As for other things, I’ve been reading quite a bit which has been great. I find that, when I’m reading a book and I have similar books to it, I like to read by themes! When I finished Circe last month, I ended up reading Ariadne (which was an utterly beautiful novel and I highly recommend it; yes, I cried a lot) and now I’m currently halfway through A Thousand Ships! It’s really good so far and I love learning about the women in the Trojan War and hearing their perspectives. I’ve been cleaning up my blog a bit too bcs there’s so much clutter! I’m also keeping up with the new season of Survivor and impatiently waiting for the Hawkeye show ever since What If? ended! So yeah, it has been quite busy, but all is well. 

With all that being said, I hope y’all had a wonderful October and that this new month will be a lovely one as well! Feel free to stop by anytime and tell me how y’all are doing and any exciting (or not so exciting) things going on! Sending you all my love!! ♡

🎧: un bacio all’improvviso - ana mena, rocco hunt