#or stefan (also very valid)

[babylon-berlin-gifs]

my fav part about having this acc is that once in awhile ill get a shitton of notes and its always ppl thirsting over Edgar

[zalrb]

If stelena were a couple during the stefan human storyline - when he wanted to leave so he could atone, so Carolines life could be better - how do you think Elena would have reacted?

Caroline was pissed and you said it felt like she didn't understand the man she was in love with.

Right because of the tone

When Stefan is human and decides that he wants to leave so he can atone, so her life can be better, Caroline is pissed, she’s all but I’ve stood by you through everything, this is bullshit

and again, her being indignant is valid and obviously she knows why he’s doing it, but the tone and Candice’s read on the whole thing and the “how dare you do this to me” quality of the conversation also feels like Caroline not understanding just who she’s engaged to.

Elena calls Stefan out in 1x10 where she’s like, don’t act as if you’re doing for this for me when I’m not the one who wants this

but she’s not berating him, she’s being vulnerable which then emphasizes his vulnerability, emphasizes what he’s wrestling with, emphasizes how deeply he feels things

So effectively, my point is that Elena’s reactions to Stefan’s actions amp up Stefan’s romance and compassion and intimacy and intensity because the show let’s it breathe, let’s us revel in it, let’s us really see it.

So, if it were Stelena, I just think the entire conversation would go differently.

One very real possibility is that he would inspire Elena to seek her own type of atonement because she has her own past and has done things she isn't proud of

she killed thousands of vampires by killing Kol

and the show never really has her reckon with any of that so they could have a conversation where he's like Elena, you have to live your life, you can't put it on pause for me and she'll have her minor monologue about her own need for redemption and her own need for soul-searching

I think it would also make sense that Elena would already know that that's what Stefan is going to do and her basically being Meredith when Derek chooses Addison

Another possibility is another iteration of the conversations we've already seen with Stelena. Like, think of their angsty "I need to go/I need to give you space/I need to leave you" conversations, they look like this

so this energy combined with Elena being like, Stefan I know who you are, I know every side of you

and I've never stopped loving you. I have always loved you.

How could you say that you're doing this for me after everything we've been through? If you feel like you need to go because it's something you need to do, I'm not going to stand in the way of your choice but don't say you're leaving for me. I've never wanted you to leave. This is something for you.

If you want them to have an argument or if you want Elena to be upset, it would be the same conversation except it would be, "So, you're just going to do what you always do? Leave. Try to make me hate you, tell yourself you're doing this for me so it's easier?"

"I am doing this for you. It's not fair to you. I'm figuring out who I am now, figuring out how to help people I've hurt--"

"And I'll be there for you like you've been there for me. Why wouldn't you think I'd want to be here, Stefan?"

It's all right there.

[klonnieshippersclub]

Do you think Bonnie would want Klaus to fix his relationship with Finn if Finn was alive? I’m a Finn supporter bc damn I’d be pissed too 😂

I'm not sure to be honest. I don't think Klaus building a relationship with Finn would be a priority of Bonnie's, but I think Bonnie would want them to be civil. People draw a lot of comparisons between Finn and Bonnie. I personally disagree with people who feel that way. I think their attitudes on vampirism and life are very different.

Bonnie doesn't like people who hurt people. The vast majority of the people causing harm to innocent people in TVD are vampires. She does not inherently have an issue with vampirism. I think people who believe that are disregarding her initial friendship with Stefan. He has a very dark side but he tries and is capable of goodness. That's what Bonnie appreciates and she wanted the same for Caroline when she turned after killing Carter. Becoming a vampire changes you (look at Vicki!). All Bonnie wants for vampires is that they try. That's why her friendship with Damon in season 6 and her seeing good in him depends on his guilt for hurting Gail. Finn just wants to exterminate vampires and hates himself. Both of their feelings are valid in some ways but they have very different values.

Finn doesn't have any concept of family or friendship. The only bond we see him have in adulthood is Sage. From what we see of her and her brief mentorship of Damon, she also enjoys being a vampire. What happens when she doesn't measure up to the woman he knew back when she was human? Does he kick her off her pedestal? How conditional is his love? Bonnie's issue is with those who hurt people without remorse for selfish reasons which isn't exclusive to vampires (ex: Kai, Shane). Being a good friend and relationship building is essential to who Bonnie is as a character. Finn is exceptionally distant and almost incapable of making connections, partially due to his emotionally incestuous relationship with his mother. His closest sibling relationship is based on a memory of who Freya was as a child. I can't imagine Bonnie being able to encourage Klaus fixing things with Finn when Finn needs to address his own issues with the rest of their family too. Bonnie can't be the whole Mikaelson family's therapist.

[tophsazulas]

Talk to us about why you love stelena and what do you see as their main similarities and most important personality differences?!

Ooh this will be fun!

For starters, they have such magical chemistry. Just impeccable. Even if I didn’t ship them, I’d respect them for their chemistry alone.

And they just have a beautiful story, with two dead souls bringing one another back to life. Tho Stefan stalking Elena, even for valid motives, is weird to me.

I love that they have common values and how they bring out the best in one another. It’s clear they were best as individuals when they were together (to me at least).

Also I just love how they fight for one another and no matter, they just can’t give up on each other no matter what.

As for their similarities, @zalrb made a really good post talking about their similarities as vampires here. And both their parents died and for a while they felt dead inside, both of them feel very deeply ( @whitewolfofwinterfell mentioned this here) both are compassionate and forgive people who hurt them, and are flawed yet 'good' people (Stefan can be a little...tho).

Their differences, to me, are that Elena is less 'broody' than Stefan lmaoo. Ans she's a little more willing to go out and have fun, and is more extroverted than Stefan.

And I think that's it.

[therealvinelle]

i've seen you answer a few questions about tvd so i thought i might ask, what are your thoughts on the main love triangle? and klaus/stefan?

As a caveat: I did not watch much further than the first few episodes of season 4, in fact I ragequit when one of the writers revealed we wouldn't be seeing Elijah on screen again until 4x20 at which point I thought, "Well I simply won't watch until 4x20 then".

And then 4x20 was a backdoor pilot to the spinoff The Originals and I simply watched that show instead.

All this to say, I was 100% a gung ho Vampire Diaries fan and you can tell by how closely I was following it, sadly the only TVD I know of would be the first three seasons. Same actually goes for The Originals, as I for reasons I don't remember wasn't able to access episodes post-season 3 so I wound up not knowing what happens after Hayley drives off with the entire family hibernating in her truck either.

Another disclaimer: it's been more than ten years since I watched this show and my memory may fail me at times.

With that:

The main love triangle

Having only seen the first three seasons, I think that Damon wishes quite badly he was a different man, and he is unable to take responsibility for his life and relationships being what they are. He would rather blame his failings on Stefan, and, whenever Stefan fails or falls short in some ways, it's immensely validating to Damon because who's the bad brother now?

His love for Katherine is not only about Katherine, but about being chosen by someone over Stefan. Because, as Damon will try to tell himself, just because she was sleeping with both of them and decided to turn them both, doesn't mean she didn't prefer Damon (after all, she had to compell Stefan, while Damon slept with her willingly. Victory for Damon!), and also- look, don't question Damon on this. It's fine and he's a well adjusted man, and once he has rescued his lady love from her tomb she'll tell him how much better he is than Stefan.

Enter Elena, who looks exactly like Katherine, is living in Mystic Falls just the same as Katherine, and who has drawn Stefan's interest.

Damon, eternally pulling Stefan's pigtails and being a goddamn creep, starts creeping on Elena, this does not work. Instead, however, he learns that Katherine faked her entombment, and has in fact been living her best life for the past 150 years. Worse, Damon and Stefan were never more than boytoys to her.

Cut to Elena, who is just as beautiful (in a very literal sense of the term), only she is kind, genuinely loves Stefan, the polar opposite of Katherine in every way.

Damon transfers his emotions from Doppelganger B to Doppelganger C.

Stefan, meanwhile, seems to... fall in with Elena, for lack of a better way to put it. They meet, he is confused about the resemblance to Katherine for long enough to get to know her, by which time he's into it, and Elena sees a very handsome and pleasant man who is easy to fall for.

The trouble with Stefan is I don't really have a grip on his character, he is... there, for three seasons, and he has his character moments and his speeches, I can tell you things about his personality except I can't.

He is one of those people you can know for years but never actually know who, having killed his father and become the Ripper for so many years, seems to be that he is running away from himself. That is the only way I can interpret his strange nothingness, as well as bizarre decisions like coming to live with his nephew Zach and attend high school.

I think Stefan wants to surround himself with people, form relationships with them, and through that find a sense of identity that he can enjoy. Which is where loving Elena comes in, as she is kind, generous, mature, vulnerable, and fun- the type of person you can lose yourself in, and have those simple moments of happiness Florence Welch sings about.

In other words, while my real ship here is Elejah, Stelena trumps Delena any day.

Klaus and Stefan

Klaus is a deeply sad person who is only interested in dating two people, and they are his sister Rebekah and his brother Elijah. At the time he met Stefan Elijah wasn't around, so Stefan became replacement Elijah.

(The proof of the Elijah projection lies in the fact that Klaus was fine with Stefan sleeping with Rebekah. He is historically not fine with outsiders doing this, you have to be family for Klaus to accept these things.)

"Look, Elijah," Klaus would imagine himself saying to Elijah, "I have a new brother now and he is hotter, cooler, and not a total bore like you! Stefan loves me more anyway," and then Elijah would sit and cry and give Klaus so much attention and it would be great.

As for Stefan, I think he just liked partying.

They probably did fuck, but Klaus is too embarrassing for Stefan to ever admit as much.

[andreal831]

I got a lot of edits on my fyp prior to watching any TVDU show so I knew a solid amount of the plot lines prior to watching either show, which also means I knew what characters were normalized to be hated/loved. I started these shows and expected to absolutely despise Matt, Elena, Tyler, and Cami. None of them are my favorite, but I never understood the hate for any of them whatsoever.

The Matt hate just makes no sense, I’m convinced people just want to “fit in” and hate the person that everyone else hates. You pretty much explained everything I would say for him so I’ll hold back a bit here. And yeah, I’m tired of people pretending he’s not attractive cause there is not a single actor on this show that doesn’t look good.

Everyone calls Elena a crybaby, but if they had lost the amount of people that she had before they’re even 20 years old, I guarantee you they’d be crying even more than she did. And calling her selfish? She very rarely ever put herself over anyone. There’s also the argument that she ‘played Stefan’ which in my opinion is just straight out wrong, it’s not like she was pretending to be in love with him while she was with him, but if you hate her for that, you’d have to hate like half the show. I swear everyone dated everyone within that friend group, why do people only hate on her for it? Also this has nothing to do with my point, but why does everyone hate on her NH era? I liked it, it gave her character something different.

Everyone hates on Tyler for one of two reasons. One being that he tried to SA Vicki in season 1, which you would think is a valid excuse, but then they go onto say Klaus, Damon, and/or Katherine is their favorite character (and I’m saying this as my Damon and Klaus are both in my top 5 TVDU characters). The second reason would be something along the lines of Tyler wanting to get revenge on Klaus. I do think he went too far with trying to kill Hayley/hope, but aside from that, he had every right to get revenge on Klaus. He killed his mom and practically ruined his life, including messing with his relationship with Caroline. I actually love Forewood, but I don’t think they could’ve been endgame after that. So I don’t get why people hate on him for leaving Caroline, because I feel like continuing to lead her on when his head is nowhere near the right space would’ve been worse.

Then there’s cami, which is honestly the most confusing one out of all to me. I completely understand her not being your favorite, especially if you’re into more of the anti heroes or villains (like me), but I do not understand why people just absolutely despise her. She plays a major part in the originals, especially early on, as she is the only person Klaus seems to care about listening to whatsoever. He isn’t paying Hayley any sort of attention, and he lied to/betrayed Elijah left and right in season 1. She’s also never betrayed anyone that she considers to be friends or family. The biggest reason she’s hated on is because she ‘stole Klaus from Caroline.” 1. I genuinely just do not get what people see in klaroline. I don’t absolutely despise them, but I do not like them either. Klaus hurt her multiple times (which, by the way, why do people act like Klaus is a hero for saving Caroline from a bite he caused…?) and Caroline was manipulating him every chance she got. I totally understand the whole ‘enemies to lovers’ trope, considering I like delena, but I just do not get it here. 2. How did anyone see that Klaus (and the originals) was getting his own show, and still expect klaroline to work out? 95% of interactions they had post TO being made was complete fan service. It would’ve been WAY too difficult to do a long distance thing with two different shows, especially when neither of them were (im so gonna get hated for this) never in love with each other, they weren’t even in a relationship. Oh and back to the forewood thing real quick, Tyler had every right to be pissed at Caroline for sleeping with Klaus.

Well that turned into a klaroline bashing towards the end. For the record my top 5 characters are Damon, Elijah, kol, hayley, and Klaus in that order and there really aren’t any ships (canonical ships anyway) that I absolutely hate so.

Side note, thank you for being able to hold characters accountable. I like characters as villains/anti heroes because they are a villain/anti hero, I will never understand why people try to defend their favorite character and make them seem like a hero. Like the character for their character, don’t make them into something completely different. If you wanna debate anything further (or something entirely different) let me know, I enjoy debating about shows, I just typically can’t find anyone in this fandom (or any fandom for that matter) that is able to have an actual debate without someone starting to scream over an opinion lmao.

There really isn’t a question here I just kinda felt like ranting after reading your post about Matt Donovan so here it is. Reply to this as you please!

I was fortunate enough to watch the shows before I got into the fandom so I didn't get spoilers (at least for TVD), but more importantly, I didn't have anyone to influence me on which characters to like or not. Which was why I was so surprised when I joined the fandom and saw so much hatred. But I do think some people just "bandwagon" hate characters. Especially Matt. Because anytime I ask people why, they can't even truly express why they *hate* him.

Elena was never my favorite character but I loved early seasons of Elena. I even enjoyed her NH era. I didn't like her sire bond era much. But she definitely gets too much hate. Even at times when I think she can be selfish, she's still miles better than the men the fandom loves.

I've actually posted about Tyler before, you can find that here. Sure, he's done questionable/problematic things, but who hasn't? The hate he gets is ridiculous, especially because it always comes from Damon or Klaus stans. I actually like Caroline and adored Forewood, but I hated how she handled the breakdown of their relationship. I blame the writers. They continuously tanked Caroline's character in order to get views with klaroline.

I love Cami and she is the one character that I truly believe has done no wrong. Cami was truly a turning point for Klaus. Cami was not only an important person for Klaus but for the entire Mikaelson family and the entirety of New Orleans. I also wrote about that recently. But yes, 100% of the hate she gets is because of Klaroline stans. I used to be indifferent to Klaroline. Like I don't like them because they are toxic and I would never ship them, and there are plenty of ships I feel this way about, but the fandom has made me actively dislike them. Klaroline had no possible way of working out and was just lust, but people build them up in their head and then attacked and harassed a real life person because of their delusions.

I'm glad you found my post and enjoyed it! I love finding people that want to engage and have actual discussions about the fandom. Too many people get so set in their views and can't discuss the characters without getting angry. I completely agree. We can all love the characters but 99% of the characters in this show are problematic to say the least. We can love them and still acknowledge this. I love to analyze the morality of the show because it is interesting as we can't use are real life standards to do so. I obviously love over analyzing everything about the show as I spend so much time doing so.

Feel free to ask anything or reach out!

[ribbonsfallaway]

I need to rant.

I've started watching The Vampire Diaries and I'm sorry… Damon/Delena stans are annoying as fucking hell.

First by how much they bash Caroline for hating Damon and Delena. Caroline has every right to hate him/them. Damon abused her/raped her in season 1/used her as a blood bag to feed off of. He was horrible to her. Also when she first turned into a vampire he was dead set on killing her. Despite how traumatized she was about the whole situation, he was too selfish to try to understand. He saw her as a pesky thing that can't be controlled. He was also not at all apologetic when she called him out on it. He in fact was more annoyed. Never got an apology for how he treated her.

So yeah Caroline has every right to hate Damon.

Now perhaps she shouldn't have slept with Klaus with all the shit he did to her friends/her ex's mom. But they didn't actually end up together. She couldn't move past everything he did, and that's very valid and fair.

Next fans bash Stefan especially for the moment he was trying to scare Klaus into thinking he'd kill Elena by driving off the bridge her parents died on/she almost died on. Now don't get me wrong that scene was fucked up, and Stefan was awful in that moment. But I think fans fail to try and understand where Stefan was coming from in that moment. Klaus had a toll on him all summer, and he kept him at bay/ran off with him so he wouldn't find out about Elena being alive. But then he find out, and compelled him to turn off his humanity switch and attack Elena. He did everything in his power to not be compelled but really was left to no choie. So he wanted to one up Klaus/defeat him/beat him at his own game. He was tired of that control Klaus had on him. It was terrifying and awful, but I understand why he did it/where he was coming from.

You know what I don't understand? Damon snapping Jeremy's neck/killing him. He only got lucky because Jeremy had the ring on to protect him from death by supernatural. If not for that weing Jeremy would have been dead. And why? Because Elena rejected him, and he wanted to punish her for it. You know prior to that I acually felt sympathy for him. He was brutally rejected by Katherine just before, but that's not Elena's fault. That's not Jeremy's fault.

And you know I don't think they fully addressed that well enough? Damon gave a half-assed apology but then got pissy and compared Elena to Katherine when she said she can't be his friend after what happened. Because he felt "used". They tried to frame Elena in the wrong here, and that's wild as hell to me.

But fans will try to prop up Damon and be like "at least he didn't make her relive her trauma." No babes. You're right. He actually almost gave her more trauma by losing another family member shortly after her parents.

People will also say Stefan stalked Elena, etc. Hmmm who was it who was watching her sleep in her room and stroking her face? Oh right. Damon.

Despite all this I don't hate Damon. I know this is a vampire show, and therefore people are going to do horrible things. Blah, blah, blah. I love a good villain. But the writers and fans gloss past this shit and act like it didn't really happen/wasn't a big deal.

[jade-of-mourning]

okay okay so

a) your art is beautiful and obsession worthy and I love it

b) you still do requests right? can you pretty please do Stefan and Jesper in that one pose where Jes is leaning over the dock bit to talk to Stef, who may or may not be a siren??? pretty please???

i want u guys to know that i literally feed off of your validation and even though i don't really respond very much bc idk how to i am literally vibrating in my seat and squishing an innocent shark to death every time anything ever so <333 tysmm ily

(also ignore the embarrasing part where i had to dm you to ask what That Pose is like the uncultured loser i am </3)

[purplesigebert]

Hello! This is your autumn exchange gifter! So, I've been thinking about your request and am very excited. I've never tried to think of a different meeting or how canon would change if Caroline hadn't been in Mystic Falls at all, so it's been a fun thought experiment.

First, do you have any other characters you especially love or hate? Do you have any hard pass themes or content I should stay away from? Any bits from the shows you'd especially like me to try to fold in or ignore completely?

Second, are you married to the exact scenario you laid out in your request? I do have a very vague alternate idea for Caroline as a vampire hunter, but it's a little weird and definitely in its infant stages. But I also have some thoughts about Bill (possibly with Steven and his daughter) being the one to stay in MF as sheriff and the reasons why Liz and Caroline would have had to go.

Third, if you had to choose a setting, would you prefer MF or New Orleans or Salem, MA or somewhere else entirely? New Orleans would end up including some of the same characters as The Originals, but I probably wouldn't write the baby plot in, unless you really want it there. Salem would end up being more spooky season themed and MF would probably be more of a family thing involving Bill's death.

Fourth, do you still want Caroline to be a vampire? I don't usually write her as a normal human, because I'm here for the supernatural stuff, but I can give it a shot if you're interested in that. There's the hunter thing, but do you have objections to her being a witch instead? Some other kind of supernatural creature? It's not what I'm leaning towards, but if that's something you would enjoy, I won't try to keep it strictly vampire Caroline if I think of something else.

Fifth, what level of Klaus do you like? S2 magnificent bastard Klaus or S3/4 slightly relaxed Klaus or TO unhinged mess Klaus?

This is a lot of questions. Please feel free to take your time and/or not answer all of them! Totally valid to not have strong feelings about any of this.

Omg hi! First off, thank you so much for writing this note to me! I'm speechless!! So, to answer in order:

First, I'm not a fan of Damon - if S1's events happened as canon. If not then I'm a fan. Stefan is great. I love love Katherine and Bonnie. Elena was great in her S1-S3 characterization. I don't have any problems with anyone else. Not a fan of the miracle babies storylines.

Second, I'm not completely fixed on my request. I've never considered a MF where Bill was Sherriff, how would that change canon? Damon and Bill already didn't get along and they were in the same room maybe two times? I don't see Bill changing his whole worldview the way that Liz did. If Liz and Caroline left MF, where would they end up?

Third, Oh this is tough one, Caroline coming back to MF for Bill's funeral is one of my fav stories to read! How old is she? Is it still canon time-line and have the S3 storylines been happening? I'll leave that up to you!

Fourth, I don't tend to read Caroline as any other creature (a few where she is a werewolf/hybrid but those are outliers), so Vampire!Caroline is good to go! I'm not too pick, if we see her turn in the story or not.

Fifth, S2/beginning of S3 is peak Klaus, he's just a little shit and he knows it lol.

Sixth, YOU ARE AWESOME! Seriously thank you so much for sending me this. You rock.

[timetravellingshinigami]

Describe vlads personality and who is now vs who he was as a ruler and how his demise changed him in your opinion. Also what draws you to him? Thanks sm!!

OOO I love this!

It's interesting to think about personality change for vampires because canonically they are set in their ways.

We always see the Volturi as bad guys but really the Romanians were just as bad. They did not hide who they were and honestly valid, but they were also quite cruel and loved to toy with the humans. Their actions most definitely decimated many villages.

Considering that Vlad already was the leader of a four member coven before joining Stefan means that he had charisma and ability to inspire people to join him even more than Aro.

It's said that vampires couldn't work together but as can be seen from the Romanian coven which consisted of 12 founders and even more guards and ruled for 1000 years it shows that vampires can definitely co exist maybe not as peacefully as the Cullens.

But unlike the cullens who bonded on love and family, the Romanians from what we know of them bonded over the shared love of power and control. I'm even sure the mates weren't mates in the loving sense but more like political alliances.

I think there's a reason why even other vampires get creeped out by the Romanians. Probably because the power they held long time ago which the Volturi without Chelsea couldn't match. But also, I think it's the doubt of what would the Romanians do if the Volturi were defeated. Would they decide to rule again and go back to the old ways or will Carlisle be able to speak them out of it lol.

Honestly I would love to believe that Personality wise they have changed. Just a little less cruel. Meeting Carlisle and the cullens make them rethink much of who they were.

Aro was right about his fear of human weapons. And the Romanians would be wise to listen to that one. Stefan especially despite being a founder of the coven and leading battles... doesn't seem much enthusiastic about battling the Volturi. He should have been ready to take any chance but even said "maybe next time..."

Maybe the thirst for battle dulls some after so many centuries. Vladimir seems like the "let's kick as right now"...but he's still cautious. Losing your entire coven will do that to a person set in their ways or not.

I think I love Vlad a lot is because of his back story. And especially the Coven he lead. And I like to imagine what his future holds. And how he can change.

Gonna be real I like reading the Vladimir x Leah story so that got me thinking a lot 😅😅😅

His story is like what if Aro and Caius were the only ones alive after the Volturi are decimated in the future and they wander alone. That's mind boggling to think about because it could very much happen. I'm not sure if anyone has written something like that about the Volturi yet.

Thanks for the ask btw ❤️ I hope this is what you wanted to know.

[brunettemermaid]

I've been seeing a lot of discussion on tik tok about whether Conrad is Stefan and Damon is Jeremiah or the other way around and I think both statements are actually correct, depending on how you look at it. (I'm going to take the series into account mostly, not the book)

Conrad is brooding, quiet, almost shy, an introvert and sweet whereas Jeremiah is outgoing, fun, the life of the party, joking around and says everything out loud. So far we can see that indeed Conrad is Stefan and Jeremiah is Damon, but I think it’s important not to focus just on the way of being but on the way they act too. 

Conrad and Stefan are dad's favourites and the first option for everyone and to Belly and Katherine/Elena. Jeremiah and Damon are the one's left out and they live in the shadow of their shining perfect brother. Jeremiah and Damon desperately want to be chosen. Up to here, I continue to see each one follow their roles, but it’s also here where I think we can find the very first difference between Conrad and Stefan. Conrad realised who his dad really is, and you can argue it's because he knew what's going on with her mom but he's also mad because of the football thing. When Conrad grows up, stops admiring his dad and stops doing what he says, just like Damon did when he abandoned the war. I think Damon, the older brother too, probably also admired his dad, the way Conrad did and both wanted so bad to be validated by them but at the end they realised it wasn't worth it. They rebelled, while Stefan and Jeremiah never did (Stefan did kill him but this was another thing...) I just see in Conrad and Damon that rebellious vein I don't find in the younger brothers.

Another thing I see is that Conrad is the selfless brother and Jeremiah is the selfish one (I’m not saying Jer is a bad person or something, I like him, he’s just younger and maybe more spoiled but a good person) You can argue that Stefan is the selfless brother, and he has selfless moments too of course, and Damon is the selfish of the two but I think it's actually the other way around. Stefan turned Damon into a vampire against his will cause he didn't want to be alone, he doesn't really care about Damon's happiness, he doesn't care enough to help Damon bring Katherine back due to his own issues with her, he doesn't mind either flaunting Elena's love for him and he talks so bad about him, whereas Damon never never said anything bad about Stefan.

Jeremiah shoot a firework to ruin Conrad and Belly's kiss while Conrad tells Belly Jer is the better choice. Damon did tell Elena the same in season 2: I don’t deserve you but my brother does. Here I find another similarity between Conrad and Damon and it is the way they put Belly and Elena first, sacrificing their own happines for them and their brothers. 

Now, the relationships. You can see Stelena in Belly and Conrad, of course. I mean first love that you will come back to it, I can see that. And you can also see Belly and Jeremiah in Delena. I know, brother’s girl and all...I respect this, I can see this with my head but with me heart I feel it backwards...

Damon and Conrad stepping into the dance showing how the “bad options” are actually the good ones, they are the ones you can count on. I also think that just as Jeremiah is the he in the way I loved you and Conrad is the you, the same goes for Stefan and Damon. Just think of when elena said the following about Damon: “that no matter how much I try, he’s got under my skin and I can’t shake it...”and that’s how Belly feels about Conrad. They tried to love “the better option” but it’s just not it. It’s not that they’re toxic is that they really love them and feel real love and passion. 

The conclusion is that based on personality conrad = stefan and jeremiah = damon but in the way they act, in their actions and decisions conrad = damon and jeremiah = stefan. Regarding relationships, the truth is that all options are good but to me personally I’m into delena/ belly x conrad, it’s just the feeling for me.

thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Let’s wait to season 2 for see how everything continues and maybe everything changes who knows...

[zalrb]

I know Steroline is just a flop but it still bother's me that they make Stefan ooc with how he gave Caroline a shitty snow globe for Secret Santa and having Damon TELL him about Caroline like Stefan wouldn't know and DAMON would? And the lame ass proposal. Stefan Salvatore? Hopeless romantic, compassionate, sentimental, intimate, intense Stefan Salvatore? Okay guys. Like, I MISSED Stefan in the later seasons so much because he was mostly a shell of himself with a few glimmers of og Stefan.

OK. I'm of two minds about this.

When I was watching it in real time, I agreed with you. There are a lot of rants about how OOC I found Stefan

But thinking about it, looking at the whole chessboard, I don't think that's actually true. There are a lot of issues with Steroline but Stefan not being Stefan isn't one of them.

There are certain things definitely that I can't abide like Damon explaining Caroline to Stefan. Or the snow globe because at that point in time, Stefan would've been with Elena, but, I also have to say, Steroline isn't Stelena and that contextualizes a lot, because I keep saying it, Stefan and Elena were built as a pair and that allows for certain traits to shine.

So, for instance, Stefan being on the run for three years and writing Caroline a letter every day is technically speaking being romantic and sentimental and intense but

a) it's not believable because there are so many issues in that relationship where neither Stefan nor Caroline communicate with each other, they both communicate more with Valerie than one another and Caroline communicated more with Alaric than with Stefan (see masterlist)

b) Paul and Candice didn't have the romantic chemistry needed

c) Caroline sends the letters back.

She doesn't even read them and then complains about him abandoning her despite the fact that he kept reaching out to her

and that's a perfectly valid response but that wouldn't have been Stelena. Stefan calls Elena and doesn't say a word but she knows it's him

and the very next episode she's got on her inappropriate-for-hiking shorts and searches for him in the woods, coming face to face with werewolves for him

which emphasizes how much an intimate gesture calling her was.

And granted, Caroline has kids so she can't do that, she can't up and go, she has different priorities but there isn't that implicit understanding between them where Caroline would understand why Stefan would leave in the first place or if she does understand, it's not enough, which means sending the letters is really just a futile attempt at something rather than an expression of intimacy and longing.

The show tries to give that understanding to them in the series finale

but I don't know, that's kind of overshadowed to me by the fact that Stefan's last goodbye before leaving the world is to Elena and it's more intimate than his goodbye to Caroline

Stefan sells his soul for the twins

and I get what they were trying to do with Caroline's response like "no, no, no you can't leave me, we're starting a life, and I can't lose you, I can't lose that"

but Caroline's indignation doesn't play very well and I'll get to what I mean later.

Stefan goes into the tomb for Jeremy

and Elena races to run in after him that Damon has to slam her against a wall

and she literally tries to fight him so she can go into the tomb

that raises the stakes of what Stefan has done to protect an innocent who happens to be her brother.

When Stefan is human and decides that he wants to leave so he can atone, so her life can be better, Caroline is pissed, she's all but I've stood by you through everything, this is bullshit

and again, her being indignant is valid and obviously she knows why he's doing it, but the tone and Candice's read on the whole thing and the "how dare you do this to me" quality of the conversation also feels like Caroline not understanding just who she's engaged to.

Elena calls Stefan out in 1x10 where she's like, don't act as if you're doing for this for me when I'm not the one who wants this

but she's not berating him, she's being vulnerable which then emphasizes his vulnerability, emphasizes what he's wrestling with, emphasizes how deeply he feels things

So effectively, my point is that Elena's reactions to Stefan's actions amp up Stefan's romance and compassion and intimacy and intensity because the show let's it breathe, let's us revel in it, let's us really see it.

It also helps that Stelena actually had chemistry so when they have their intimate moments it isn't awkward and the romance and the intimacy and the intensity come out the way they're meant to. Like, 7x05 is supposed to show that Stefan knows Caroline so well but they don't feel natural that I don't believe the scene

this, though I believe

and it also helps that SE's relationship wasn't riddled with the same amount of fundamental problems that SC's was -- again see the masterlist.

[we-pay-for-everything]

Unpopular opinion that you probably won't agree with, but I actually consider the TVD love triangle as over in S4. After that, there were maybe a couple of "what if/could have been" scenes to pander to Stelena shippers, but despite all the crap she gets for going back and forth between both brothers throughout the whole six seasons she was on the show, the truth (at least as I see it, lol) is that once she chose Damon, that was it. She was in love with Damon, she still loved but was no longer IN love with Stefan (she explicitly says so!), and even when things got tough with Damon, she never actually considered resuming a romantic relationship with Stefan. And even before that, she was completely and totally with Stefan through S1-S2. S3 and those first few episodes of S4 was actually the only season of the whole show where people can justifiably say that Elena was indecisive and genuinely considering both brothers in a romantic way! I also agree with you about Klaroline having very little substance, and in a weird way I think that's part of why they were so popular - it's an intriguing "what if...?, what could and should have been" ship for people. Not sure that makes sense!

I agree with everything you've said, though?... :) The love triangle, on Elena's side at least, only began in season 3 and was quickly resolved in the beginning of season 4. Even if Stefan, Caroline, and the others wouldn't accept Elena's decision (and they had some valid reasons, re: sire bond and Damon's everything), Elena didn't change her mind at all. And season 5 showed that Elena was very much committed to being with Damon even if the "universe" wanted her and Stefan back together. Like you said, she never once considered getting back with Stefan again and couldn't understand how he could've believed she'd seduced him (it was Katherine who did).

I definitely agree about Klaroline. The most popular ships in fandoms, especially now, tend to be ships that never actually become canon. People get bored of ships once they happen. Didn't Delena lose a lot of popularity once they became a thing? The writing certainly didn't help, but people like the will-they-won't-they dynamic the best.

Thanks for the ask! You made perfect sense :)

[4pondsinabox]

I posted 754 times in 2022

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I tagged 743 of my posts in 2022

Only 1% of my posts had no tags

#dw fanart - 66 posts

#lot spoilers - 62 posts

#em rambles - 46 posts

#otp: old married couple - 35 posts

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Longest Tag: 140 characters

#she’s very entertaining and i could not believe one of her shows lined up with my year abroad in sweden when i had listened to her for years

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

Me: :(

*The Disenchanted Trailer*

Me: :)

*The Little Mermaid Trailer*

Me: :D

14 notes - Posted September 9, 2022

#4

Legends of Tomorrow characters as Eurovision 2022 songs

Sara Lance - Hope

Stefan, Estonia

Ava Sharpe - Eat Your Salad

Citi Zēni, Latvia

See the full post

29 notes - Posted May 15, 2022

#3

There’s nothing more healing than watching the River Song fandom collectively lose their sh*t over a 12 year old behind the scenes photo they’ve never seen before

35 notes - Posted March 1, 2022

#2

I’m just going to say this once because I need to get it out there

But I am SO tired of the Doctor/Companion romance trend - even if unrequited

44 notes - Posted January 2, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

It’s become pretty common in fandom spaces to discuss different portrayals of love but one thing that I keep thinking about from this latest Legends of Tomorrow episode is how amazing it was portraying different kinds of romantic love.

Of course we have Sara and Ava, who represent “old love” after being well established for several seasons and who solve problems as an old married couple would. Then there is Nate and Zari 1.0, who have also been together for awhile but are still figuring out the technicalities of a long term relationship. They’re out of the honeymoon period but just enough to be comfortable being apart for an extended amount of time, which allows those reunions to feel all the more special. Then we have Gideon x Gary and Behrad x Astra, both of which are very new couples but in completely different ways. The former decided to dive headfirst into their relationship, while the latter is taking the much slower route. Both are equally valid takes when writing budding romantic love. Whether you like any of these pairings or not, it’s wonderful to see a tv show as wild as Legends of Tomorrow understand how differently romance can take shape for different people.

85 notes - Posted January 22, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[katherineholmes]

I've seen people say they hate Elena because "she's always the center of attention", geez, some people need to look up the meaning of “protagonist” in a dictionary. 🙄

I should also say that most of Elena's haters are fans of Caroline or Bonnie (but mostly Caroline), I think the main reason they hate her is because unlike Caroline, Elena is a much more flawed and human character. Caroline in my opinion, is a character that fans often use to project themselves and self insert into the story. I don't hate Caroline and I don't think she is a bad character either, but you have to admit that she is very far from reacting realistically to what happens to her, I mean, she literally accepted vampirism and the fact that she killed someone as if it was nothing. When Elena discovered everything related to the supernatural world she acted the way almost all of us would, and when she became a vampire she practically had an existential crisis.

Anyway, the other anon is absolutely right, Elena is hated for the stupidest reasons, and to think that without her or the doppelgager the show "would have been better" is laughable, without the doppelgager there wouldn't even be a damn plot.

Oof, I’ve been so busy all week so I couldn’t get to this.

You are right! She is literally the protagonist, of course everything is about her 🤦🏽‍♀️ She is the main character, but the disservice done to her….smh.

I do agree that Elena gets a lot of hate from Caroline and Bonnie fans, I have nothing against either of them as characters, they’re interesting in their own right, but I’m personally drawn to Elena. I don’t know how Caroline accepted that she killed someone so quickly though, it’s never even brought up again.

Elena’s reaction to Stefan being a vampire is truly so realistic though, she’s afraid, unsure what is happening, and unable to trust anything, so she runs. Her crises on becoming a vampire is valid, and it gives her so much depth. She was going through hell in that season, and I think it’s just not ‘fun’ for people to watch.

The reason for the Elena hate…. I’ve been in this fandom for nearly a decade, and I still don’t understand why people hate her. At least, not this mass hatred she gets, especially because she’s only seventeen when the show starts. Without the doppelgängers, what is this show even? There’s no Klaus without the doppelgänger, would’ve died a thousand years ago if it hadn’t been for their blood, so….🤷🏽‍♀️

Thank you for the ask ❤️

[kiss-my-freckle]

That Twitter thread also noted these red flags that people miss in Stelena:

When he ‘finds out’ Aria is his student (he knew all along), he doesn’t just say “we can’t do this.” Instead he constantly repeats that *he wants to* but can’t. This creates an us-against-them in Arias mind. Age isn’t the issue, it’s other people.

This is so Stefan in 1x9/1x10 after Elena found out about his vampirism.

She turns to Fitz to validate how ‘adult’ the burden has made her feel. Ezra acted like an adult romantic relationship to match her adult familial burdens.

Stefan lying about being a 17 year old growing up without parents and Elena being with him to relate to her burden and validate her feelings fits.

He points out what she says actively disrupts her from them chance of an appropriate relationship. His solution is to switch school districts rather than end the relationship. Noel tries to blackmail Ezra for a better grade after discovering the relationship. Ezra takes a moral stance against that but not statutory rape.

Aka after Elena questions Stefan his solution was to throw Damon in a cellar, not honesty or ending the relationship.

Ezra surrounded himself with people who shrug away and enable their relationship.

Lexi thought Stefan was strange for being with Katherine's doppleganger after seeing Elena but quickly got over it and encouraged him to sexualize her and romanticize their relationship.

The shaming was very clear: keep our secret or I will ice you out.

Stefan's threat in 1x6. Speaking of 1x6, I'm mad at how people bring up Damon restraining Elena in 2x10 to save her life as toxic but Stefan restraining Elena's arm as she's trying to run away from his house is never brought up. Right after he found out Katherine was one he wanted her to get away from him and he's seen in a more sympathetic light than Elena.

Stefan in 1x10 can be seen through Elena's parallel in 5x17.

I agree with everything you've posted. It's been a long time since I've watched PLL, so I don't remember all their ships. I just remember that Caleb and Hanna was my favorite ship and I never liked Ezra and Aria. Not many people have a problem with their power differential, but it's the reason Stefan's character deserves more hate than Elena's. Elena is deceived more than she deceives, and her lack of life/love experience makes her more understandable as compared to Stefan.

"But she's big on trust."

"The Elena I know would always want the real truth, good or bad."

She's a lot like Damon in the fact that she prefers honesty, so I'm not surprised that the Delena ship is built on it.