#personally i feel like i like the characters in conquest more than i do birthright. which is partially why i miss conquest more

[elegyofthemoon]

lord give me the strength to not download and play fe awakening or fates again theres only so much i can handle with the little time i have and i dont need my brain to be losing attention enough as is

[almoststedytimetravel]

what if the rest of the lucina gang got sent to hoshido/nohr

Oh, bby girl you can't enable me like this...

Okay so, for balancing reasons you'd have to split the kids 50/50 so we need both Morgan's and some starting classes would have to be changed.

Hoshido

F!Morgan - Deviner/Skyknight

M!Morgan - Samurai/Sorcerer

Cynthia - Skyknight/Cavalier

Noire - Archer/Deviner

Kjelle - Spear master/Knight

Brady - Monk/Trubadour

Yarne - Apothecary/Taguel

F!Morgan gets deviner and M!Morgan gets Samurai because in their offical art M!Morgan was holding a sword and F!Morgan is holding a tome. Kjelle get's spear master because she starts with spears. I don't know why I chose Apothecary for Yarne, it just felt right. F!Morgan having Skyknight as her Heart Seal class is based on her heroes class being dark flier. Noire having deviner is in reference to her mother's class, deviner and not sorcerer because she's stated to be unskilled at dark magic. Yarne gets his base Taguel class back by heart sealing into it.

Nohr

Laurent - Sorcerer/Apothecary

Lucina - Mercenary/Spear master

Gerome - Wyvern rider/Ninja

Nah - Wyvern rider/Manakete

Inigo - Mercenary/Ninja

Severa - Mercenary/Skyknight

Owain - Sorcerer/Samurai

Nah gets wyvern rider because she's a dragon and I think that woulds be funny. Also I think Laurent should be able to wear the slutty sorcerer fit, I think it would be funny. Mercenary is the only Nohrian class that starts with swords so that's what Lucina gets she ger spear master because lords get lances on promote in Awakening. I feel like Ninja fits Gerome personality wise.

I think only the original trio would be retainers to the royals everyone else would be doing something different. I think the Morgan's would be Azura's equivalent of Flora/Felicia. Twins who serve as Azura's maids/bodyguards which would also make them neutral units. Cynthia would be a Skyknight stationed at the capital. I can see her being an early recruit in Birthright, like she joins you when you first leave the capital. I think Noire and Kjelle would all also be early game recruits while Yarne and Brady would be mid game recruits.

I actually think Nah and Gerome would be Neutral units serving in Cheve. They get auto recruited in birthright/revelations but need to be recruited in conquest by having one of the Awakening kids talk to them. It would be on the same map where you get Charlotte and Benny. It would also give the Awakening units two neutral units per nation. Laurent would join you after one of Corrin's returns to Krakenburg, best time I think would be when they get sent to the rainbow sage. Lucina I can also see being recruited durring the seven fold sanctuary map, perhaps having been sent a head by Xander.

This would also give five more child units for the male characters.

M!Morgan's child would have to have their own version of "Time to tip the scales!" and "Time to even the odds!" I think their gimmick would be remembering what happened in Heir's of Fate and have the starting class of ninja.

Yarne I can see having a child unit that's the complete oppisite of him, bold and reckless who gives him no end of heart attacks. staring class of Oni Savage

Laurent's child unit would be a detective, trying to solve mysteries like Miriel but rather then being a scientist they do dective work. The best starting class for that would be outlaw with Ninja for a heart seal class.

Brady's child unit would be a 'Sukeban' a sterotypical japanese female deliquent. But one who's quite skilled at the more 'high class' activities. Basically Brady but with the Japanese aesthetic and cultural influences because she'd be a Hoshiden unit

Gerome, child unit who has a wyvern named Maria. I think they would have conflict with Gerome baced on being in the deep realm. "I'd rather see you less often as you grew up rather than be stories for you to hear." vs. "I would have been satisfied with stories of you if it meant not being alone." A follow on from "I didn't want heroes I wanted my parents."

I also think they would have a mechanic where if you fight one of the Awakening kids with another they won't defeat each other but will leave each other at 1hp/they will miss any attack that would defeat them.

Oh and Noire would defiantly be able to S support Hayato and have unique dialogue with Rahjat

[sunecito]

Fire Emblem Fates: Agere Leo Headcanons !!

♕ His little age is around 2-6, though he mostly stays around 3 or 4.

♛ He’s a crier. Sleepy? Cries. Lonely? Cries. Bored? Cries. He can be a very clingy kiddo when he wants to.

♕ Ironically, he’s also the independent type. If you place him in a enclosed space with books and toys that jingle he can stay put for hours.

♛ He claims he can read by himself… But being honest, his baby intellect can best handle those cardboard books. (Especially the touch and feel and the look for the hidden object ones-)

♕ Doesn’t actually like physical touch. Camilla found out about his regression when he started tearing up and pushing her away after she tried to give him a hug.

♛ However, he actually loves being picked up, put on swings, sitting on his carer’s lap. He gets overstimulated with a lot of pressure, though, so hugs aren’t preferred by him. 

♕ Elise wants to be his main caregiver SO BAD. But that role goes to Odin and Niles (mainly Niles), who treat the baby prince like they’re narrators of a story book. Needless to say, Leo loves it.

♛ Odin takes care of the stimulation: playing, reading, his personality makes the most interesting voices for characters. Niles prefers handling the more domestic duties: cleaning, bathing, cooking, Prince Leo doesn’t deserve any less than the best, after all. 

♕ He still likes tomatoes. And by like, I mean that he still adores them. Once he snuck out regressed at night and ate 2 and a half tomatoes before he was caught by Laslow and Peri. (Xander scolded Peri for bouncing Leo and keeping him awake. She loves baby princey)

♛ He’s actually pretty intimidated by the horses, so he never usually goes by the stables. The few times he gets close to a horse is when they’re brought out for training or feeding. He brings his crayons and sketchbook whenever Elise takes her horsie for a ride.

♕ In the Birthright route, Leo finds himself regressed often, even when he tries to suppress it. Sometimes he simply collapses with stress, so Odin and Niles have kept little gear in the places Leo spends his time most. 

♛ He cries a lot about his big brother and younger sister, he has nightmares where he acts like a witness. He wakes up in a cold sweat, and Camilla comes over due to his cries and screams. He often breaks down in her embrace, crying out for Big Brother and Sissy.

♕ In the Conquest route, Corrin is added to the close circle of his regression. Corrin was surprised at first (Leo didn’t fully express his regression until Corrin decided to side with them) but then fell completely in love with their babier brother! How could they not?

♛ In the Revelations route, Takumi and Leo grow more close. They still act cold and rival against each other when they’re big, but if anyone can understand Little Leo’s behaviors, it’s Takumi.

♕ Corrin makes a lot of play dates between both princes. (Leo will never admit that he genuinely likes them)

♛ He’s still quiet, as in, he doesn’t even babble. He responds in humming or with body language, other than that, he stays silent. 

♕ 1000% a tether kid. He had a bad habit of biting others as a kid and thus likes to bite things while regressed. He has his own chewable paci and he uses it a l o t .

♛ When asked about how he’s feeling, if he says “I dont wanna talk about it”, then it’s because he’s regressing. It’s become like a code for his family and retainers. 

♕ Of course, he isn’t public about this, but his family all know. Xander especially loves spending time with his baby brother, even if he has no flipping clue of what he’s doing half the time. 

[cynical-gamer-media]

Hey Cyn, if you don't mind me asking, any thoughts on the Conquest cast?

I am absolutely happy to answer!

So I believe I am roughly half-way through the game, so this is a half-way impression. I will make a final one when I finish the game! (Haven't played Birthright yet).

So far I am loving Conquest.

I love Corrin. There is a lot of interesting elements and character development with them through Conquest's storyline. I find them compelling.

I am utterly perplexed with the hatred of Corrin. 'They're stupidly naive' they literally have been sheltered for their entire life? Didn't even know what BUGS looked like (Silas Support). 1/2

Also they are not nearly as naive as people make them out to be. They acknowledge how screwed up Nohr is. The idea to change within is extremely smart. They are hopeful. 2/2

'Everything centres around them' because they have ROYAL siblings in Nohr and Hoshido? They have influence in the ruling families, so of course all focus on Corrin??? Also wow siblings love their sibling or are angry with them so of course they'd focus on them???

I love the Nohr siblings so much. Each one of them is distinct. You can see how they truly care for one another, through one-on-one, a few at a time, and altogether. You can feel the love they have for Corrin and one another. Positive sibling bonds whoo!

Xander is playing the politics well. We don't see a lot of politics, but we still have an understanding of it through how he knows how his father acts. Kind and stern older brother.

Camilla is fascinating. She either acts sultry around others to appease them or to lower their guards, or overly doting mother-figure to the siblings (clearly they didn't know their mother well). Far smarter than she lets on. Love that.

I love Leo acting as 'I am a true Nohr noble, father; I do not care about bonds' in front of Grado, but we see that it is an act to not be seen as being far kinder and compassionate then he lets on.

I love how Elise, while being chirpy and optimistic, is no fool. The fact she's all 'if you kill Corrin, Father, then kill me too' with zero hesitation shows that she is unfortunately used to his abuse and rule. She's also shown to be cunningly smart like Leo.

I love how they are actually plotting against their abusive father without trying to rouse his suspicions.

Azura is way more fascinating than I expected! Eager to get her supports with the Nohr siblings (or if I miss out: watch online). So far my favourite supports have to do with her.

I love the dichotomy between Nohr siblings and Hoshido. The Hoshido group give me a vibe of 'royals first, family second', and I don't really feel that Takumi is close to his siblings. Nohr feels like 'siblings and royals'.

Silas is a wonderful character that needs more love damn it!

Jakob has more going for him than I thought when checking certain supports (Azura)! I like him!

Arthur is a caricature, sure, but I find him strangely endearing? I guess because he is so over-the-top (and reminds me of Sky High from 'Tiger and Bunny').

Effie is a godsend in battle.

Benny's taciturn nature intrigues me, funnily enough!

There's something likeable about Kaze, even though I don't know much about his personality through story.

I feel nothing for Nyx, Selena, Berkut and Gunter so far. Mainly because I benched them, and not a fan of the 'Awakening gang is here too; do you remember Awakening!?? (Selena, Laslow, etc).

Niles, Odin (Awakening I know), and Peri being 'torture chamber time' just makes me grin. What a bunch to be retainers to the Nohr siblings!

Charlotte is great. I laughed at her introduction. Her story is fun; acting cutesy to bag some rich partner, but actually has a sailor-mouth (well, the more kid friendly version).

Keaton's introduction also made me laugh, but he seems like a fun character!

[yanderefairyangel]

(Sending this again because my internet went out and idk if it went through the first time)

So, when it comes to the various main characters where you can choose who they can get paired with, are there any like, default pairings you go for or pairings that feel canon in your heart?

Here’s my list for an example:

Seliph & Lana

Roy & Lilina

Eliwood & Ninian

Lyn & Hector

Eirika & Tana

Ephraim & L’Arachel

Ike & Soren

Micaiah (really wish she had a paired ending with someone other than the boy she basically raised. I’d take a platonic paired ending with her sister)

Chrom & Robin

Lucina & Laurent (I just thought it’d be funny to make Chrom and Vaike in laws. Plus those two are basically the Dad friend and Mom friend of the group respectively)

Corrin: Scarlet (Birthright), Izana (Conquest), Silas/Azura (Revelations)

Byleth: Jeritza (CF), Shamir (AM), Catherine (VW), Yuri (SS)

Shez & Byleth

Alear and… honestly I don’t really ship Alear with any of the other characters, I more ship them with each other. I do like Veyle and Alear’s platonic paired ending though so I’ll do with that

Ok here we go

I don' t have much feeling about those ships (except Shezleth)

Seliph & Lana : this one is clearly favored by canon seeing the favoribility of their love points

Roy & Lilina : obvious ship tease in canon, while Roy doesn't have any canon ship it's obvious the narrative favor Lilina

Eliwood & Ninian /Lyn & Hector : both are heavily favored, to the point canon wouldn't be a strech at all

Eirika & Tana : they have a paired ending ?

Ephraim & L’Arachel : I never liked this one sorry (which is weird I like both characters)

Ike & Soren : From a canon standpoint, it seems obvious the writers are teasing them in a "maybe they are more than just friends"

Meanwhile, I am sitting rotating in my brain Soren's codependance issues in my head and how all of his intereactions are rooted in his trauma

Micaiah (really wish she had a paired ending with someone other than the boy she basically raised. I’d take a platonic paired ending with her sister) : should've had a platonic ending with Sothe, we can all agree, they have 0 romantic tension

Chrom & Robin : IS moved from ship teasing Chrom and Sumia to ship teasing them, personally I don't care about them

Lucina & Laurent (I just thought it’d be funny to make Chrom and Vaike in laws. Plus those two are basically the Dad friend and Mom friend of the group respectively) : I have no real thoughts about it

Corrin: Scarlet (Birthright), Izana (Conquest), Silas/Azura (Revelations) : That Male Corrin and Azura at least is a big ship tease is kinda obvious, the other one I am neutral

Byleth: Jeritza (CF), Shamir (AM), Catherine (VW), Yuri (SS) : no thoughts about it

Shez & Byleth : If you know me, you know me. The only thing that's missing is them being able to marry

Alear and… honestly I don’t really ship Alear with any of the other characters, I more ship them with each other. I do like Veyle and Alear’s platonic paired ending though so I’ll do with that : Alear and Veyle sibling dynamic appreciator I stan

[cursedbluebird]

Celebrating TOA and the people who contribute to make our group what it is.

Repost, don't reblog. Only fill in what you feel comfortable sharing!

Happy anniversary, TOA! Here's to many more years spent together.

tagging: you

---

Name: Rosie

Pronouns: she/her

Birthday (no year): March 24

Where are you from? What is your time zone? Nebraska, CST

Roleplay experience: since 2009

Got any pets? Freya and Bast the naughtiest kitties in the universe

Favorite time of year: Fall

Some interests and things you like: sewing, thinking way too much about clothes

Some funfacts & trivia about you: - I wrote my undergrad thesis on the progression fashion of the 20th c, but I am terrible about keeping up on modern fashion

What non-Fire Emblem games do you play? L E G E N D O F Z E L D A.... I love Majora's Mask... Hero of Time my beloved baby boy..... I also love Okami so much. I'm a sucker for fairy tales and mythology.

Favorite Pokemon type & Pokemon: I'm actually not a big pokemon person! I started with Y. Ghosts and Psychic are my faves, particularly Mimikyu, Meowstic, and Hoopa. Gengar is also shaped like a friend :)

How did you get into Fire Emblem? I had been interested in the series since the GBA days but it wasn't until I got my 3ds and awakening that I got the chance to play a game.

What Fire Emblem games have you played? Awakening, Conquest & Birthright, 3H, Shadows of Valentia

First Fire Emblem game: Awakening

Favorite Fire Emblem game: Fates or 3H

Any Fire Emblem crushes? Oh my God Niles hi tee-hee... Tho Seteth damage art did get me into playing feh... And uh... My husband does look like Xander ...and his name is.... Alexander........🥴 I've posted my questionable taste in fe characters you can find it in the chat if you search

If you’ve played the following games, who was your first S support? - Awakening: Chrom- Fates: oh good God idr.... Kaze? I know I did Niles in one run... Did I do Stahl in Birthright? Kaze in conquest and Stahl in Birthright sounds right- Three Houses: Dimitri - Engage: haven't played engage. Place your bets for fun

Favorite Fire Emblem class: I like the magic classes! Healing and attacking! Tho Camilla's malig knight does have a special place in my heart 💜

If you were a Fire Emblem character, what would be your class? Dark magic user...I do not escape the goth aesthetic.... Unfortunately I am too much of a noodle to be a malig knight 😞

If you were a Three Houses character, what would be your affiliation? Fear the Deer!!! (Side note, bless my luck bc when I ordered a leftover bundle from fodlans fables I got the deer. A cosplayer I look up to also offered me her deer pin from the fe3h preorder bonus which had me 🥹)

If you were an Engage character, which Emblem would you Engage with? I don't know what this means but I copied this from Erica and her answer was funny.

How did you find TOA? I track the Marianne tag on Tumblr and saw the previous Marianne drop. The old shit post emblem group I was in was falling apart and I thought it would be nice to join a new one.

Current TOA muses: Marianne, Camilla, Triandra

Who was your first TOA muse? If you don’t have them anymore, could you see yourself picking them up again? Marianne my cursed little blue bird 💙 I've thought about dropping her, thinking that maybe someone else would do a better job, but I just can't let her go.

Have you had any other TOA muses? Other than cami and Tria nope

Do you think you have a type of character you gravitate towards? Um??? I don't know? I got told that Tria was a Rosie muse when I reserved her so I guess y'all know better than me lol

What do you believe you enjoy writing the most? I like writing horror and setting the scene :) my favorite part about combat events is describing the creatures we're facing from my characters pov

Favorite TOA-related memory: What Kent told Mari in her first lore event about the importance of healers have lived rent free in my memory since it happened. Also Griss trying to blow himself up in the arena and despite his best efforts not succeeding.

Got any delusions that didn’t see the light of day in TOA that you’d like to share? Charlotte is one I've thought about and is the one most likely to send Triandra packing....there are an awful lot of men at the academy who would do a great job taking care of her and her family 😏

[gascon-en-exil]

Do you think Fayes or Three Houses handled route splits better?

I'm fairly sure it's universally agreed that Fates handles its route splits better, even among players who still get a kick out of loudly hating that game. It comes earlier, it's actually a clean split instead of being the same for half the game and then being almost the same in the second half for 3/4ths of the routes, and it's grounded in the motivations of its Avatar in a way that Three Houses's can never be because Byleth doesn't have a character - and even if they did, choosing a house of students you just met to teach is significantly less emotionally impactful than being forced to choose between one of two families, or neither of them. Also, the sense of cause and effect is all wonky with Three Houses; discourse likes to come up with all these deep personal and political justifications for preferring a certain route, but in canon itself the splits are really just 1) pick your favorite Hogwarts-esque house! and later 2) do you want to fuck Edelgard?

And while I'm not a huge fan of FE14's story or even its core gameplay, the treatment of each of its routes feels less lopsided. Each game has one or more routes that clearly got preferential treatment in development - Birthright and Silver Snow were I believe the first written for each, while Azure Moon got the most love from the developers as a unique experience because it's a standard FE plot through and through - but while Conquest and Revelation still deliver unique, essentially complete experiences despite feeling rushed or sloppy in places, Silver Snow still feels like a first draft while Verdant Wind and Crimson Flower fell victim to obvious time constraints and/or budget cuts. I think that says a lot too.

(If you were to ask about Three Hopes, I'd say it manages its split better than Houses by getting to it earlier and seeming more evenhanded in terms of how resources were divided during production, but still worse than Fates as it lacks emotional stakes at the point of the split.)

[mysticstarlightduck]

Happy STS! Hope you've been having a good week, and thank you so much for the follow 💕

What's your 'elevator pitch' for each of your OCs? You can include information such as who are they as a person, what is their role in the story, things like that! Feel free to elaborate as much or as little as you'd like!

Hello, @elshells! Thank you so much for the ask! 💕

This is an amazing question and I took my time answering it!

(It is worth noting that, since The Last Wrath - my medieval dark fantasy WIP - is my main current work in progress, I only used the characters from this book to answer this ask. I have quite a few other WIPs, one of them being Enchanted Illusions - my Gothic Victorian Fantasy - and a sci-fi WIP named SUPERNOVA Initiative, but it would be far too many characters if I did a pitch for all of them, so I chose just TLW 😂)

These are not all my characters, but some of the main cast:

RAELEN ASHIREN: The Forgotten Rebel

A young troublemaker from a forgotten but once powerful mageborn family who finds herself swept into the world of mysteries and intrigues of their continent after her oldest brother, Julyan Ashiren - her only living blooc relative - is captired by an ancient group of corrupted sorcerers with a bloody agenda, who want to see her dead. Now she faces a race against time to rise up to her family's lost legacy if she wants to save her world from a war torn future.

AZRA MOORSWORTH: The Dragon Rider

The adoptive son of the High General of Kestrall and the surrogate brother of Raelen and Julyan that has always lived with deep seated unanswered questions about his past and origins. Wanting to do what is right, he ind himself swept into the chaos of his surrogate sister's lives as they flee together from the destruction of everything they have known and into a rebellion that might depend on them to suceed. But some secrets of the past are better left forgotten.

VALLERIUS ZYNDROSAR: The Fallen Heir

A conflicted young man living on the run that has singlehandedly managed to become the most wanted man by the Morosyn Empire. Living with constant guilt for his past, he has dedicated two years of his recent life to finding a way to stop his world's ongoing shadow war and change his supposedly inevitable twisted fate. When his path crosses that of Raelen's - the daughter of a Mageborn house that was thought to have been destroyed centuries ago - he decides to face his past and help her in her rebellious quest.

JULYAN ASHIREN: The Last Sun

Raelen's older brother and only living relative, he has raised his sister alone ever since their parents disappeared in a mysterious mission. Living with the constant fear of being found by their enemies, he did everything in his power to protect Raelen and prepare her for a future he knew was coming. After he is forcibly captured by the Secret Court, he is forced to face a secret about himself that even he didn't know about, as he struggles to find a way to escape his dangerous predicament.

PRINCESS ELLINOR DALLANTES - The Lost Princess

A princess scorned who had her birthright ripped away from her at an early age, after the royal family of Arkellya was slaughtered and her conniving uncle ascended the throne, now allied to the Morosyn Empire. Saved from the carnage and raised by the best assassin on the continent, she would grow up to rouse the sleeping fires of a rebellion long in the making to restore her family's stolen dues and bring an end to the reign of conquest of the Morosyn Empire. Along with her closest friends - young yet talented outcasts - she sees to undermine her enemies from within, and might just need the help from a certain duo of Mageborn to achieve her goal when the Secret Court closes in.

LORD NETHEN FAHRIS - The Noble Rival

A young noble from a powerful family of royal advisors to the young Emperor Aerich, Nethen grew up knowing that, if he was to be more than just a pawn in their crooked games, he'd have to learn to work from the shadows, and to manipulate the situations around him to his every whim. Only then could he achieve his goal. To do so, he made himself undeniably yet subtly necessary to the political stage around him, though it was a lonely existence. Everyone around him had their petty schemes and agendas, he knew that very well. There were almost no people that he trusted, let alone respected. Until he met a Ellinor. For the first time, he had a worthy opponent, a rival worthy of his respect and quite possibly, his only equal - as perhaps the one person who could understand him, the one person that could dance the deadly dance of their world’s intrigues with him without blinking an eye, someone, who saw him for himself - the man behind the mask. 

ZEPHYR TELLIAN: The Cursed Sorcerer

A talented sorcerer living in the aftermath of a brutal betrayal by one of the people who were closest to him, fallen prey to a terrible hatred Curse that caused his very magical affinity to become a source of pain and exhaustion. Zephyr was born in the war torn lands that once were the Kingdom of Eldon, in the height of the Agrannorian Civil War, and knew well the horrors of war. The hidden Order of Sorcerers had given him and his siblings a chance to survive, but he never would've expected this to bring his downfall. After surviving what was meant to kill him, he and his younger brother Jamie endured dire hardships as street children in the aftermath of a war, but Zephyr's magical talents - albeit restricted by his curse - and knowledge, along with Jamie's swordfighting abilities, got them accepted into the Liranthian Academies after a tourney. Now, Zephyr has dedicated himself to find an anti magic spell that can counter attack the abilities of the crooked Secret Court, but after discovering a horryfing truth, he and his brother just might have to turn to the budding rebellion in order to live another day.

DARIAN CAELESTIS: The Hidden Potioneer

A young aspiring potioneer, son of two important warriors from the dangerous kingdom of Ergyre - a place commonly known as the Iron Thorn of the Free Realms for a reason - finds himself living under a secret identity after the way comes to him, in an attempt to fulfill a long lost promise and find his missing childhood friend, a young elf who was captured by a mad enemy warlord from the Morosyn Empire. Darian never wanted to fight, and never thought he could, but he will do whatever it takes to get his friend back, even if the person he finds has been pushed far from the boy he used to know.

TANWIN LYRANDETH: The Soldier

Once a naive and sweet young boy, unaware of the true horrors of his world, Tanwin has been twisted into a weapon of war after his capture during the invasion of the borders of Ergyre by the Morosyn Empire. After years of a living hell, he finally manages to escape his captors and free himself, but the last thing he would have expected would be to find his long-lost childhood friend as a rebel on the other side of the war. Torn between the person he was turned into and the one he used to be, he will do anything to keep his recently reunited friends safe, especially if it means bringing the war to those who forged him for it.

NADINNE AHMIRAH: The Seafaring Lady

A girl with dreams of freedom, who yearns to sail the seas and tame the waves like her ancestors did, finds herself trapped in the luxurious world of the nobility of Vellamere. Her family ascended from anonimity to great wealth a few generations back, becoming courtiers in the thriving portuary kingdom of the continent, but even so, Nadinne yearns for more - to be able to fight the injustices of their world and to meet new places, like her uncle and aunt who were adventuring privateers before their ship misteriously sank. After meeting a certain mercenary with a broken connection to the rebellion and discovering that one of her closest friends is a rebel spy, Nadinne makes it her personal mission to join them - especially after discovering first hand the horrors their enemies can inflict on those who stand in their way.

LUCIYA ANYNTH: The Free Outlaw

A young rogue to whom freedom is the highest value of life, she had spent her youth stealing from the Empire where she was born. Before this, she was the daughter of a lowborn man who had become important in their home kingdom, before he was wronggully framed and imprisoned for charges he was innocent of - a way for the Imperial nobility to get rid of the only person who knew secrets that could bring their reign toppling down. Afterwards, she found herself taken in by a group of forest dwelling kids, whom, like her, had been abandoned by the very cities of their birth. Her happiness was stolen from her after a heist gone wrong and a sudden betrayal, which forced her to become a servant to the very noble family that ruined her life in the past. Now, she seeks to find her freedom once again, and a befriending a certain rebel spy may be her only chance to do this.

CASSANDER FYNN: The Rebel Spy

An extremely knowledgeable young man, Cassander was taught by his parents the value of secrets and illusions. Son of a soldier and a mystical woman, Cassander suddenly found his calling by joining a budding rebellion, using his talents to become the best spy currently under the employ of the rebellion. He could lie, cheat and deceive his way into almost any enemy ranks, and the secrets he kept could quite possibly be the difference between the success of the lost princess' rebellion and a brutal failure.

@elshells

[randomnameless]

I stumbled across one of your posts from a while ago where, in the tags, you compared Seteth caring more about Rhea telling Byleth the truth than whether or not she was safe at the end of Silver Snow to Kaze defecting to Nohr because of Corrin, in terms of the awfulness of the avatar worship.

While i agree with the former case being bad, i actually think that Kaze's defection is much more well-justified than Seteth suddenly caring more about Byleth than Rhea.

A fundamental part of Kaze's backstory and character is that he feels an immense amount of guilt for failing to save Corrin from being kidnapped by Nohr when he was supposed to be guarding them, to the point of said guilt getting him killed in Birthright if he doesn’t learn to move past his regrets and focus on the present by having a heart-to-heart with Corrin in their A-support; that, coupled with the fact that he only joins after personally witnessing Corrin go out of their way to avoid killing enemy soldiers, which concinces him that Corrin's plan to change Nohr from the inside in order to make it more a more peaceful place is true, makes it less avatar worship and more just a natural development for Kaze's estabilished character, imo.

Where i do think his motivation starts faltering is that the game doesn't really put in enough effort to address Kaze's feelings after Corrin's plan falls through and they have to go to war against Hoshido; the closest it gets to that is having him tell Corrin that siding with Hoshido wouldn't necessarily have been the best choice and that both Nohr and Hoshido think that they're fighting for the sake of justice in Chapter 17 of Conquest: (jp version, translated by fateswartable)

Kamui: ….

Suzukaze: Lady Kamui…

Kamui: Sorry, Suzukaze. Joining me must be painful for you.

Suzukaze: N- No, that’s…!

Kamui: Saizou, Kagerou… And all of the Hoshido shinobi defeated today… If I chose another path, we could have fought together.

Suzukaze: …That’s right. But, that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the right way. Both Hoshido and Nohr too are fighting for justice. That’s something everyone should know. Even brother, surely.

Kamui: Yes… Thank you, Suzukaze…

While Kaze growing to think of Nohr as also fighting for it's own justice through his time living in the country, causing him to choose to fight for it over Hoshido, is an interesting direction to take his character in, it's kinda undercut by the fact that, not only does this development happen entirely off-screen, but that Kaze has no presence in Conquest's plot afterwards; the game never develops or expands on his newfound motivation after Chapter 17, forcing players to just settle for a throwaway line and the fact that he still feels bad for failing to protect Corrin as the only reasons why he's willing to fight and kill his own brother and former allies.

It's underdeveloped, to be sure, but i wouldn't call it a flaw caused by avatar worship, and certainly not as bad as Seteth, out of nowhere, not giving a fuck about Rhea's safety or location and only caring about her insofar as what she can tell Byleth about their origins.

Oh !

TBH, Fates's avatar wanking looks.... tame, compared to FE16 Supreme Leader wanking and Billy wanking.

But it's still... there.

I was re-reading the RD battle/talk quotes from Part 3, where Miccy's army and Ike's army fight, and how some people choose to fight against others for, uh, reasons -

Some Daien people are fighting because their king does, some do because the believe in Miccy and, well, some (Nailah, Kurth and Rafiel) know the truth, and how Miccy can't back down, else her people will die.

Nohr fighting for its own Justice in CQ always felt, well. Corrin saved Kaze, and wants to change Nohr from the inside.

However, in CQ (my mind is foggy?) Nohr is, iirc, invading Hoshido. It's not like a war where someone wants to erase someone else or pissed on a diplomatic proposal asking for reparations for a genocide, nope. In FE14, Nohr kills the Hoshidan Queen, and in CQ, well, conquers/invades Hoshido.

Even if Kaze learnt and witnessed how Nohrians aren't baby eating monsters in their everyday life (save for iago) why and how is them invading Hoshido any form of "justice"? Mc Guffin here and there means Gooron has to sit on the Hoshidan throne to turn into goo - and yet, even if deposing Gooron is the best thing to do to change Nohr from the inside, how can this (invasion to depose) be justified and bought by a Hoshidan as "Justice" and acceptable?

Maybe I'm too used to the FE14 lolcalisation, but Kaze pulling the "justice" card here is oddly reminiscent of Tru Piss Sylvain (I think?) who says they can't reason with the Kingdom they're invading because each party fights for their beliefs like Faerghus just wanting to exist

If Kaze became a green unit like Aerone or Gale (in FE6 iirc?) and died due to Iago Iago-ing or Hans Hans-ing I'd have prefered it to him joining on Conquest because of his guilt regarding Corrin and "witnessing him sparing soldiers". And yet, buying the "everyone fights for their own justice" and choosing Norh is, idk, strange. Maybe it would have been better if, as you said, his change of heart wasn't off-screen...

Coming from FE10 to FE14 was already kind of ultra meh in terms on dealing with the unit that became a turncoat, but FE16 takes it to new heights.

So yeah, I was exaggerating when I compared the Billy worship to Kaze lol, but I thought about it because it's the only pair of siblings I remember where an avatar inserts themselves in an existing relationship and effectively severs it.

Seteth not giving any fucks about Rhea (and to some extent, Flayn too, she's not mentionned in their A-S support, when, maybe shipping googles make a bit biased, his support with Manu talking about remarriage mention his daughter!) is completely wild, but just like everything in FE16, characters, the plot and the lore can be forgotten and torn apart if it means the player can be pandered to, via Billy or Supreme Leader.

[sealofreconciliation]

Fates: was the story as bad as people say? a response/debunk (finale 3/3: sexism, supports and ending)

Link to original post here.

> **Sexism**

> I think this topic goes well beyond Camilla's "armor", which is why I feel the need to bring it up despite not exactly being an expert on the topic. Some fan service designs are understandable, in my opinion, both for male and female characters, but this is an issue which seeps into the writing.

> Camilla is in three cutscenes, two of which focus entirely on her design. One of them is the "sibling introduction cinematic", for the lack of a better term, and all eight have one of these. Camilla's is the most jarring, as the camera shots go beyond gratuitous and straight into creepy pandering territory, and what really gets me is how utterly it clashes with what's happening in the story. Camilla is supposed to be distraught over Corrin's betrayal and getting ready to fight them, and *that's* what the game focuses on? It'd be like showing Ryoma get out of the bath before trying to stop you from taking over his country in Conquest.

I'll happily concede that Camilla's outfit is horrifically impractical for armor that she's supposed to be wearing into battle, and that you might be able to argue sexism due to the fact that there's no real reason for her to wear that aside from fanservice, but what does that, or the camera in her Birthright cutscene focusing on her “assets”, have to do with the writing?

The only thing i got from this is that you personally found her BR cutscene creepy and think that it clashes with the tone of the story, and more power to you if you did, but how is this any different from someone using “i like what this story says” as a defense? Both of those points are based on heavily subjective evidence that can't really be argued for or against, which is the exact reason you gave for why you thought that thematic analysis was lesser than plot analysis; isn't this hypocritical?

> The other sisters' cutscenes aren't as *creepy,* but there's a pattern in how the cutscenes are all brighter, and in Sakura and Elise's case, cuter.

Sakura and Elise are some of the most idealistic and optimistic members of their respective families; the cutscenes being “brighter” (being good-faith here and assuming you're talking about the tone instead of the actual lighting of the cutscenes) are just accurate representations of their characters, not sexist writing.

And yes, Sakura and Elise's surface-level gimmicks are being cute girls, just like Kiragi, Percy and Hayato 's surface-level gimmicks are being cute boys; unless you're willing to argue that Fates is both misandric and misogynistic for having a tiny fraction of it's cast be made up of young people that are occasionally portrayed as cute, a trope that's omni-present in not only this franchise but in almost any piece of fiction with children in it, this is inane.

> To Hinoka's credit, she actually flaunts her weapon in a vaguely threatening manner, but the camera angle of the video coupled with her insanely short skirt are unlikely to be coincidences.

Wow, you can see her *legs* in that cutscene, guys! How sexist of the game for putting a female character in an outfit with a skirt, keeping her outfit for a cutscene, and going out of it's way to censor any actual fanservice by putting a black void under her crotch anytime there's a shot where the audience would be able to see under her skirt, amirite?

> Meanwhile, all four of the brothers get a cutscene of them getting ready to fight and posing threateningly with their legendary weapons. Oh, right, the legendary weapons. Which all the four brothers have. The sisters don't have a single one.

I find it very interesting for you to reduce a bunch of women's worth solely to whether or not they can use special weapons; are you aware of how much worse than the game this makes you look?

> Granted, as discussed in Revelation, the brothers' legendary weapons basically get reduced to batteries in the main plot, but at least they're *something.*

Give a meaningful distinction between Takumi and Leo being shoved to the sidelines in Revelation despite wielding two of the four legendary weapons and them being shoved to the sidelines in some alternate universe where they weren't the ones who could use the legendary weapons; their biggest contributions to the plot are in their joining chapters, after which they become little more than tag-alongs with minimal screentime or relevance up until the fight with Anankos, where their legendary weapons sync up with the Yato and power it up to it's final state, which would have happened regardless of whether the people wielding the weapons had a dick or not.

If anything, this should be a criticism of Revelation's bloated cast making it so that any character not named Corrin, Azura, Xander, Ryoma or Gunter get, at best, a chapter for themselves before being mostly forgotten about by the plot; while i'd question if you'd share that criticism with most other FE games, if to a lesser extent due to the sheer size of Rev's playable cast, it'd still be more sensible than trying to argue that Revelation's poor distribution of screentime and/or plot relevance is sexist despite the fact that Takumi and Leo get just as shafted as the royal sisters.

> The game never really justifies the sisters' presence in the conflict in any way,

Just because they can't use the super-duper-special weapons their brothers can doesn't mean they're not some of the strongest people in the world; that, and the fact that they want to win the war they're currently in, is more than enough justification for them to join the conflict.

> and they're the first to get shoved to the sidelines, especially once Ryoma and/or Xander join. There's never anything only they can do or say.

They're the first to get shoved to the sidelines because they're the first ones to join the team, and even then, they're only truly shafted in the latter halves of Revelation and Birthright.

In Birthright, Elise is pivotal to the main plot; Camilla gets two chapters all to herself, both of which explore her character and mental state after Corrin betrayed Nohr; Sakura is the one to point out that they'll need a special herb to cure Takumi's sickness, saving his life when that causes Ryoma to direct them to Macarath; and Hinoka saves Corrin and Sakura's lives from Zola by (accidentally) looking through his disguise and following him in secret to see if he planned on doing anything to them. The Hoshidan sisters don't have much presence in the story later on, admittedly, but at least the Nohrian sisters get plenty of screentime to make up for that.

In Conquest, Elise causes the Ice Tribe fight to break out by unknowingly snitching on Corrin, is the reason the team goes to Macarath and gets ambushed by Ryoma due to getting sick, has a mini-character arc where she starts off jealous of Sakura when they first meet in Izumo prior to warming up to and befriending her when she's taken prisoner, and insults Iago and Hans to their faces prior to fighting them; Camilla tells Corrin to go talk to Leo for guidance after they witness the Cheve massacre and warns them against disobeying Garon lest they be executed, starting their character arc in that route, has a scene at the end of Hinoka's chapter where she convinces Hinoka to follow Corrin's orders to retreat by threatening to decapitate her if she disobeys, and tells Hans and Iago that she doesn't care about what they did and is only going to fight them because they're attacking Corrin, having a pretty consistent thoroughline of being relatively amoral, which is an aspect of her character that's only explored in this route; Sakura has, for the only time in any of the routes, an actual character arc, with her getting a chapter and cutscene all to herself, dedicated to showing her overcoming her shyness in order to stand her ground and help the troops fight off the Nohrian army, even being willing to fight and kill Corrin to do so; and Hinoka is at her most relevant in Conquest, being the entire catalyst for why Chapter 26 even happens, along with being fought twice, with the second time estabilishing just how betrayed she felt when she thought Corrin blew off her attempts at appealing to their sentimentality when they told her to let them through because they need to reach the throne, having her steel her heart to finally kill her own sibling, who was the entire reason she even got to training in the first place, and reconciling with Corrin after they make clear that they hold no ill will towards her or Hoshido and are doing this for the greater good, along with sparing as many soldiers as they can, causing her opinion of Nohr to brighten up enough for her to sign a peace treaty with Xander. Unironically, Conquest is the best route in the entire game in terms of giving the sisters plot and character relevance.

> The only real exception to a sister's importance is Elise in Birthright where she serves as a guide and the only character trying to inject some humanity into the story.

So, thematic analysis as a concept is too vague and subjective to be argued for or against and, as such, is a bad point to make in defense of a game, but saying that a character is relevant and good because they “inject humanity into a story” isn't? What are these standards?

> In that way she's far more important than Ryoma in any route outside of his weapon.

I like Elise too, but you don't need to go so far as to lie just to hype her up; her only purpose in Birthright is to serve as a tour guide for the team and to die so Xander can complete his character arc.

Ryoma, just in Birthright, however: has a fully-fledged character arc, where he starts off ignorant of the suffering of the Nohrian populace, prior to visiting the Nohrian capital and seeing for himself how miserable life is for the vast majority of people living in Nohr, leading him to reconsider his opinion of the country and promising to help it rebuild once he's crowned as king; is pivotal for Corrin's character arc, being the one who convinces them to keep trusting in their allies whenever they start becoming undeservedly suspicious of their own army due to a constant string of betrayals from people they considered friends, leading to them both saving Takumi's life at the end of the game by trusting in Takumi to overpower his possession and causing the conclusion of Ryoma's own character arc when, at the end of the game, he accepts that he isn't strong enough to do everything by himself and needs friends in order to solve the problems ahead of him, causing the Yato to evolve and the main theme of Birthright to be fully explored; and is the main person driving the plot forward prior to the team meeting up with Elise since he's the only one with knowledge of important military locations in Nohr.

Elise is utterly irrelevant compared to Ryoma, both character and plot-wise, in any of the routes, not because of sexism, but because he's one of the main characters of the entire game whereas Elise's a secondary character at best; it's called having priorities when making a story.

> There's one more thing that I've not seen many people discuss: the sisters' (and Azura's) feelings on ascending the throne. Camilla gives up the throne to Leo, Hinoka is forced to become queen because both her brothers died, and Azura gives up her claim to the throne in favor of Corrin. No (canonically; Corrin's sex can be chosen) female main support character wants to become queen and are quick to shy away from the responsibility.

Camilla's reasons for not wanting to be queen are pretty obvious given how mentally unstable she's proven to be multiple times throughout Birthright; Hinoka only claims that she didn't want to be queen in the localization and, in the JP script, only says that she never dreamed of taking the throne because the title of king would have automatically gone to Ryoma or Takumi, meaning she didn't expect to be made queen due to Hoshido's patriarchal succession system, not because of a lack of desire on her part; and Azura's shown to be both a terrible leader and extremely shy and anti-social multiple times throughout Revelation, so her hesitation at her capacity to successfully rule over a recently-devastated country is perfectly understandable given the amount of convincing the people of Valla would need in order to follow a new ruler.

Even following your lead and ignoring all the context as to why the three of them were hesitant to become queen, why is their denying the responsibilities of being ruler of an entire country sexist, exactly? Being king or queen is never portrayed as an inherently good thing in Fates, and in fact it's pointed out multiple times in both the story and supports that there are immense amounts of responsibilities and restrictions that come with being a monarch; wouldn't them taking up jobs they don't want, aren't suited for, and which would force them to spend the rest of their lives with little choice in how they get to live, just because they're women, be significantly more sexist than them acknowledging they don't want that kind of life and preffering to live the way they want to?

> Sure, the game does a poor job of explaining why Valla needs a monarch at the end of Revelation

Valla needs a monarch because the kingdom and it's people are still there, something needs to be done about it, and Corrin's the best person to rule over it given that they're one of only two people in the world that are Vallite royalty and are an excellent leader besides; these are extremely easy and basic inferrences to make.

> or even where Ryoma and Xander's..."gifts of land" are,

Hoshido and Nohr's territories, put together, account for most of the world; they're going to have plenty of spare, unused land to give. I don't see why you're trying to frame this as an issue.

> but then why even include this in the first place? Why make a completely unnecessary and strictly confusing scene where Azura rejects her throne?

Because this is an acknowledgment that Azura would make for a terrible leader in comparison to Corrin, something that's proven by the rest of the route; the fact that she has slightly more of a claim to the throne than Corrin is irrelevant when compared to the fact that she doesn’t want, or would even be capable of handling, the responsibility of rebuilding and leading a country. Not only is it pretty necessary to acknowledge such a fundamental flaw of her character, I fail to see what about the scene is in any way confusing; anyone paying any attention to Azura's character throughout Rev would be able to immediately tell why she refused the throne.

> The "typical" pandering with the cutscenes and the lack of legendary weapons reduce the sisters' agency and make them feel more like trope-y collectibles than characters in their own right, which is a problem for major support characters.

Firstly, what do you mean when you say that the cutscenes are “typically” pandering?

Secondly, explain why the sisters not having legendary weapons, and them having “pandery” cutscenes, change anything about their characters or their roles in the story, let alone enough to reduce their agency or turn them into “trope-y collectibles” (whatever the fuck any of that's supposed to mean) instead of actual characters.

Thirdly and lastly, they're not major support characters. The main characters of Fates overall are pretty clearly Corrin, Azura, Ryoma and Xander; the rest of the royal siblings are secondary characters, and the rest of the playable cast are tertiary characters. The fact that they don't have as much focus as the main characters of the story is perfectly fine, especially given how much relevance and development they do get in BR and CQ.

> Their feelings on (not) becoming queens, however, just feels...I don't know, strangely mean-spirited?

To someone who doesn't undestand how much of a pain in the ass being ruler of a country is and/or has such a vendetta against a game that they're willing to grasp at straws and misrepresent said game in order to accuse it of serious moral failings it's (mostly) innocent of, such as sexism, yes. To anyone else, no.

> **Supports**

> Interestingly enough, the Birthright and Conquest supports were written by Yukinori Kitajima and others from the company Synthese. They were also the ones who wrote Revelation,

Sources? I don't doubt that this is true, but it's the first time i've heard of that, and would like to know where and how you got this info from.

> and it leaves you wondering just how much this explains any potential discrepencies between the characters in the supports and the routes. A small crack formed either by this, the route split or both is when Corrin mentions in their support with Takumi that they've "shown their loyalty to Hoshido", a line that makes sense in Birthright but less so in Revelation.

Corrin is being loyal to Hoshido by killing Anankos and saving the world, which includes Hoshido; while it's a more unorthodox way of claiming someone to be loyal to a country than if they just served it directly, as Corrin does in Birthright, it's still extremely easy to interpret the line in such a way that it still makes sense.

> That is just one example and I doubt it's the only one.

Prove it. You can't just give one example of a support contradicting the story (if you interpret one specific line in the most bad-faith way possible), then baselessly claim that there's multiple supports that do so, especially when you don't even bother giving any actual reason as to why you think that.

> There are two more general points I'd like to make about Fates' supports: My Castle and the second generation.

> **My Castle**

> My Castle is...odd. It's introduced in the main story, but is never really referenced again. Azura knows who Lilith is, as evidenced by her reaction to the latter's death, yet we never see them interacting (not that Lilith interacts with anyone).

> So why is this a problem? Well, a lot of supports make it sound as though our heroes are out in the wilderness, making camp, hunting for food and the like. However, after every map, you're taken back to My Castle...and it is in My Castle you read the supports.

There are multiple supports in multiple Fire Emblem games that mention the army setting up camp or otherwise being at relative peace, even though said supports can only be accessed during battle, implying that the supports aren't meant to be taken as literally happening mid-battle; i don't see why you wouldn't apply that same courtesy to Fates just because the supports ignore the My Castle instead of the battlefield.

> Maybe you think I'm just being nitpicky here again, but this is a setting established in the main story, from where you read the supports, and the characters don't acknowledge it. Rather than utilizing his unique setting, the supports are written as though it doesn't exist at all. It's not just confusing, but also a missed opportunity.

The My castle visits, aside from it's introduction in Chapter 3, are extremely likely to be non-canon. Lilith says that the Astral dragons granted her and Corrin permission to live there, not random people Corrin feels like bringing along; it's never mentioned again after chapter 6; Lilith states that she has to put Corrin into a specific location in the Bottomless Canyon when they ask to be teleported back to the real world, which would cause innumerable logistical issues if they were actually visiting it between chapters, due to the fact that them going to and fro the My Castle should end with them being teleported away from their goal; the supports by-and-large ignore it's existence; there are multiple instances in the main story where the characters could have retreated to the astral plane to save themselves but don't, implying that they can't, for whatever reason; and lastly and most importantly, Lilith's the only one that's ever shown or stated to be capable of sending people to the Astral plane. Lilith dies in two of the three routes. Logically speaking, Corrin and their army should be completely incapable of accessing the Astral plane after Lilith's death, but they still can in gameplay, implying gameplay and story segregation at best and non-canonicity at worst.

tl;dr my castle isn't canon but the supports are, and that's why they ignored it when writing said supports; it's in no way a missed opportunity.

> **The second generation characters**

> Just like in Genealogy of the Holy War and Awakening, Fates features a second generation character system. Unlike those two games, however, this has zero bearing on the main story,

Lucina's the only second-gen character in all of Awakening who's of any relevance to that game's plot, not that that's an issue with either Awakening or Fates; the point of the second generation characters in either game isn't to provide characters with massive amounts of relevance and screentime to the story, but to encourage players to engage with the support system by giving them new, optional characters you can learn about and use as a reward for pairing up the first generation. I fail to see why optional tertiary characters not being relevant to the main plot is an issue.

I also fail to see why Genealogy’s here, aside from the fact that it pioneered the second gen system; it's the only game in the series to have the second generation be integral to the story in the base game itself, mostly because of the way the plot's structured, to the point that most of them are mandatory recruits IIRC. The child systems in that game and Awakening/Fates might share some similarities, but their purposes are entirely different.

> and it feels like a misguided attempt at cashing in on the popularity of the system in Awakening, since it works pretty much exactly the same way in Fates.

The basic method of getting and recruiting the character's the same, sure, but the way the second gen's stats and skills are calculated and distributed is *wildly* different from how it worked in Awakening.

I also find it very odd to claim that a mechanic in one game returning for the next is an “attempt at a cash-in”; wouldn't this make every FE that's ever reused a gameplay mechanic from a previous game a cash-in too?

> What this means is that every single first generation support between two characters of the opposite sex, so long as they're not related (unless you're Corrin who porks both cousins and family members they grew up with) eventually has an S support rank, where the two hook up and pop out a baby or two.

> This was a controversial system in Awakening as well, as it "forces" characters into a relationship no regardless of the chemistry established in the C-A rank support conversations. However, again, Awakening at least had a main story established reason for this system existing. Fates, on the other hand, doesn't, and it solves the little pesky issue of starting a family while being active participants in a war by shoving their children into other worlds where they'll age faster so that they can join your army as adult-ish members.

> So, the entire first generation of characters not only comes across as very...irresponsible, for the lack of a better word,

The only irresponsible thing about any of this is the parents not waiting until the war was over to have their children, and even that can be (somewhat) excused as either the children being conceived by accident or the parents not knowing whether they'll live through the war or not and wanting to know what it'd be like to have a family.

That part aside, putting them in an alternate dimension with people they've personally ensured will care and provide for them, along with visiting often to make sure they're okay and to connect with them, is the best thing they could've possibly done for their children, given that the My Castle is prone to being invaded by Vallite soldiers and that the normal world is obviously not suited for toddlers to be in due to the team being in the middle of a war.

> but there is also so much wrong with this logistically that it makes your head spin if you stop for a second to think about it. While in the middle of a war, a female character gets pregnant, gives birth to a child, and she together with her partner goes to another world and leaves it there. The parents then periodically, *while the war is still raging,* visit the child who ages super quickly. All off screen and all done the very second after they reach the S support. Moral and logistical questions aside, does Intelligent Systems know how pregnancy works?

Yes; pregnancy works by a woman being impregnated then waiting 9 months for a baby to pop out, which the mothers can do because they go to the Deeprealms and work through their pregnancies there. How did you forget about such an obvious explanation for how the mothers gave birth to the children during the war?

Also, quantify how long the wars take to begin and end. Unless you can prove that all the campaigns take place during a ridiculously short period of time, there's no logistical issues with the characters visiting the children in their spare time, especially with how little time would pass in the normal world during the visits and that, even in the middle of war, there's going to be downtime for the soldiers to sleep and rest, which the parents could easily use to visit their children.

Lastly, i fail to see many moral issues with the Deeprealms; the parents put their children there for the express purpose of stopping them from getting involved in the war, with Heirs of Fate estabilishing that none of the second gen characters ever canonically left their Deeprealms or were recruited into the army, and as i pointed out a few paragraphs ago, that *was* the best place to put their children in if they wanted to ensure their safety. Most of the parents even visited them often whenever they had spare time, so i don't see what's so morally bad about the Deeprealms.

> Deeprealms are widely ridiculed, and it's with good reason.

I still haven't seen good reasons to ridicule them, not from you or from anyone else; most people misunderstand the Deeprealms on a fundamental level due to not bothering to read the children's paralogues and supports properly, thinking that all the parents just abandoned their children there and came back for the first time during the Paralogues themselves for the sake of recruiting them to the army, which is objectively wrong.

Even you, who at least didn't use those specific points, didn't really offer much in the way of criticism, aside from forgetting about the Deeprealms when questioning how the mothers carried out their pregnancies and claiming that it didn't make sense for the parents to have time to visit their children because they were in a war, ignoring the fact that there's inevitably going to be downtime during said war that they could use to visit; it's better than most criticisms of the Deeprealms, but it's still pretty heavily flawed, and certainly not something that proves them to be worthy of ridicule.

> They could not be bigger contrivances if they tried, and I would almost respect the decision to include them just because of how brazenly shameless it is if it hadn't been for the fact that Intelligent Systems just tried to copy what worked in Awakening.

The main story had already estabilished that time ran more slowly in the Astral Plane than in the normal world; the deeprealms expand on that idea by showing off different parts of the Astral Plane than just the My Castle, therefore they're not contrived.

Also, again, explain why copying (and modifying) what worked in a previous game for a new one is bad.

> I've already covered the lackluster worldbuilding and how that leaves the characters with less to talk about, which stands in stark contrast to the Tellius duology and Three Houses, where the world itself plays a big part in the direction the support/base conversations go. Combined with My Castle and the second gen, this leaves Fates' supports with three "handicaps", so to speak.

How are the My Castle and second gen “handicaps” to the supports, and how are they even related to each other in the first place? By your own admission, the vast majority of the supports in the game ignore My Castle's existence, and the second gen not only provide new supports but also (ocasionally) expand on the children's feelings regarding the lives they lived in their respective Deeprealms; isn't this a boon for Fates' supports, if anything?

> Now, you might argue that there are good supports in spite of these setbacks, to which my reply is very simple: of course there are. Fates has an *absurd* amount of support conversations; it would be much, much stranger if there was *nothing* of value here. However, the obscene number of supports opens the way for yet another major problem: you've got to find the good supports. There is very much a quantity over quality approach at play here, and using the combination of characters you like is no guarantee that you'll find their best supports. This has been the case in Fire Emblem since supports were introduced in Binding Blade, but I must emphasize the sheer quantity of supports in Fates and how that exacerbates the problem.

It shouldn't matter how many or how few supports there are in Fates if, by your own admission, uneventful or bad supports have existed since Binding Blade and you've always had to look for good conversations; what's the meaningful difference between the two aside from amount, which changes nothing aside from how long you need to spend looking for supports you like?

> There are supports which pay lip service to worldbuilding and things like the chemistry between Mikoto and her adoptive children, but for the most part it's kept very simple.

It's not paying lip service if it's estabilishing worldbuilding and chemistry by talking about it; i don't know where you got this weird idea that a story detail needs significant amounts of time dedicated to it before it magically becomes a valid piece of information, but I’d recommend that you stop using it.

Also, prove that the majority of supports are “simple” (whatever that means).

> I mentioned above how Kagero's B support sort of skims over Mikoto and Ryoma's relationship despite hinting at something interesting, and that is a common trend in the supports: they're very rarely in-depth discussions or about something meaningful.

It states that Mikoto and Ryoma didn't get along at first, but that the two eventually warmed up to each other; i don't see why it'd need any more time dedicated to it than that.

Also, again, prove that most supports in Fates have little to no depth to them in regards to characterization or worldbuilding; you can't just keep generalizing vast swathes of a game without any proof, at least not without someone like me eventually calling you out on it.

> Far too much attention is instead given to quirks or silly situations characters find themselves in, which is odd seeing as Fates' routes try pretty hard to be dark and dramatic.

Prove that most supports are entirely based around weird situations or character quirks.

> You could argue they're trying to pull a Persona, where one half of the game is very out there and the other half is deliberately kept down to earth, but seeing as Fates' characters get so little time devoted to fleshing them out and establishing arcs, subplots, motivations and more, it doesn't work.

All of the major characters in Fates get plenty of fleshing out in the main story, as proven in both this post and my worldbuilding one.

Even steelmanning you and pretending that the important characters all get permanently shafted in the main routes, what correlation would that have to the supports being more light-hearted than the main story? Why would that change whether the distinction works or not?

> Camilla might be the biggest victim of this. She mentions the fan-dubbed "Concubine Wars" *once* in her A support with Niles,

Firstly, something being fan-dubbed doesn't make the event lesser; it was just a fan-given title to make the events easier to discuss.

Secondly, Leo and Elise also discuss the events of the Concubine Wars in their B and A supports, which would logically include Camilla, so your argument that the Concubine Wars are unimportant to Camilla's character because they're only mentioned once is wrong.

Thirdly, stop using this stupid argument that character traits aren't valid if it they aren't constantly brought up.

> and while she has some supports which are fine and show off her role in Nohr's royal family dynamic, she has so many superfluous and creepy supports which paint her in a pretty negative light

Give examples.

> (and there are a lot of informed attributes, like her being ruthless to enemies).

There's no fucking way you just said that Camilla isn't shown being ruthless to people; did you develop amnesia and forget about her cutscene in Birthright, which has her threaten to kill Corrin and cradle their dead body in her arms? Or about her telling Hans' troops to kill every single person hanging out with Corrin just prior to said cutscene? Or, if you want moments where she's still her normal self, her putting an axe to Hinoka's neck in Chapter 24 of Conquest and threatening to decapitate her if she didn't obey Corrin and retreat, straight-up telling her she hadn't taken her head during the battle proper only because Corrin had told her not to? Or her casually telling her siblings to kill everyone quickly so they could be back home in time for Corrin's nap in Chapter 6 of Birthright? Or her being about to torture a defeated Takumi just because he bad-mouthed Corrin in Chapter 10 of Conquest, only being stopped due to Corrin pleading with her not to?

The list goes on; how did you miss one of the most obvious and consistent aspects of Camilla's character?

> Given her lack of importance in the main story

Refer to earlier rant of all the ways Camilla's important to the main plot both character and story-wise.

> and how her appearance in two out of three cutscenes focus only on her design, there's very little to salvage this supposed major character.

Damn, Camilla having two fanservice-y cutscenes are a major reason for you to automatically discard anything and everything about her character and deem her unsalvageable trash? I knew you were prudish due to the “sexism” section of this post, but not to this ridiculous of an extent; more power to you, i guess, but i fail to see how such an “unique” metric for what makes a character salvageable or not is in any way fair to Fates.

> I suppose that is part of the reason why there are so many fan theories surrounding Camilla: there's a rare hint of an interesting story in an ocean of mediocrity, and that gets people's imagination going.

Firstly, most of the more popular fan theories are so heavily supported by the game they're barely fanon anymore, so i'd hardly call that a case of overactive imagination from the fandom.

Secondly, stop being a pretentious prick and claiming that a major reason as to why people “theorize” (using that term loosely given how the only difference between “theories” and “estabilished plot points and character and world details”, as far as Odo's concerned, are whether said details debunk him, at which point they're baseless fan theories no one should take seriously, or support him, at which point they're crucial story and character details no one should ignore; needless to say, the definition of the word “theory” has been consistently and grossly misued and devalued throughout this series) about Camilla is because of her being secretly uninteresting; you can't possibly know that, and it's pretty insulting to generalize a bunch of people's opinions on a character under such a wide umbrella.

> However, it is very clear the developers valued her design and devotion to Corrin far, far more than diving deeper into a potentially interesting backstory.

Explain why IS wrote an interesting backstory for Camilla that informs and adds to her characterization throughout the main plot if they didn't want to write an interesting backstory for her or to develop her and were only focused on her design and devotion to Corrin; i don't think i need to point out the obviois contradiction here.

> I could go on, but I will finish this support section by shortly mentioning another problem: the "Corrinsexuals". That's what the fandom tends to call the characters who can *only* support Corrin and no one else.

Not all characters are created equal; some of them are gonna have to be given less attention and content than others, and since Corrin's main gimmick support-wise is being able to marry anyone of the opposite gender (aside from Kana), they pretty much had to only write one or two supports for the Corrinsexuals and give them to Corrin if they were limited by time or budget, which they very likely were given how the Corrinsexuals are either secret characters (Yukimura, Izana, Flora and Fuga), optional in most of their appearances (Shura), or only fully playable in one route and even then only as an irrelevant tertiary character (Scarlet); while i agree that it's an issue, i think you're downplaying the reason as to why they're written like that.

> This includes Shura, who kidnapped Azura on the orders of Yukimura, yet is unable to talk to either.

I wonder why Azura wouldn't want to talk to the man who kidnapped her, why Yukimura wouldn't have anything to talk about with some random bandit he hired 15 years ago for a revenge kidnapping and probably hasn't thought about ever since, or why Shura wouldn't want to talk to the girl he kidnapped or to some random employer that hired him for a job a long time ago.

If you're going to criticize a Corrinsexual's lack of supports, do so for Scarlet, who has an obvious crush on Ryoma that's not allowed to go anywhere due to her not having a support with him, or for Flora, who has lengthy special dialogue if you fight her with Jakob where she confesses her love for him and how she'd lvoe nothing more than to be able to live with him and the other servants peacefully, only to not be able to do anything about it or have it develop any further due to her not being able to talk to him; there are much better examples of character relationships getting shafted due to their lack of supports than Shura.

> **Final thoughts**

> So, now I think I've covered practically every aspect of Fates that I can think of, even if there is more to be said about individual support chains. Pacing issues, lack of chemistry, contrivances, plot holes, copious amounts of filler, tonal whiplashes, nonsensical dialogue and much more.

> These aren't minor nitpicks or intellectually dishonest claims, but major problems which plague Fates' writing.

Refer to previous posts, including this very one, for proof that nearly every single point you made against Fates is either based on heavy intellectual dishonesty or is a meaningless nitpick.

> If you've forgotten much of Fates' dialogue, especially the main story stuff, I really cannot emphasize enough just how batshit insane a lot of it is in the worst possible way. Practically every chapter has some dialogue which, when scrutinized, makes no sense or actively pushes the plot, worldbuilding or characters in a worse direction.

I'm *very* interested in seeing you prove that, especially since this in an entirely new argument. Damn near every dialogue exchange you criticized in the main posts was done because you personally didn't like it and not because of anything it contradicted, because the dialogue was made up and/or worsened by Treehouse's incompetence, and/or because you interpreted the dialogue in intentionally nonsensical and bad-faith ways in order to make Fates look worse, as i've proven dozens of times over throughout these responses.

> I can't force anyone to dislike Fates' story and its characters, but I hope that the analysis has demonstrated that Fates' issues are in a league of their own.

No it hasn't; i'm still waiting on proof for that claim, given how lackluster your pieces of evidence for it were.

> You can't just say "yeah Fates wasn't written well but what about these other Fire Emblem games?!". I've criticized many aspects of the writing of Fire Emblem in the past, both series-wide issues as well as specific entries, and Fates being poorly written doesn't excuse lackluster writing in other installments of the series.

I can agree with this, if said hypothetical Fates defender went after games you never mentioned in these posts, but if said person went after stuff like the Tellius games or Three Houses, i'd argue it's a perfectly valid response, especially since you brought those games up first and unprovoked; if someone were to tear apart those games' worldbuilding, to the point of managing to prove that they have worse worldbulding than Fates, that just sounds like a good debunk to me.

> However, no Fire Emblem game and indeed no other game I've played in general can be compared to Fates, as its narrative is fundamentally broken on every single level.

Prove Fates' narrative is broken on every single level.

Also, lol no. For a small list of mainline games in this series that are *significantly* worse-written than Fates in terms of plot, worldbuilding, themes and characters, we have: Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, Radiant Dawn, Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, and Three Houses. This is me being fair and excluding FEs 1 through 3 on the grounds that they barely have any story to speak of, or else they'd also be on that list.

Binding Blade, Genealogy, Thracia and Fates are pretty neck-and-neck in terms of their writing quality, i haven't played the DS remakes of FE1 or 3 and don't know their stories, so those are being excluded, and the only games in the series with significantly better writing than Fates overall are Awakening and Path of Radiance; Fates is, at worst, in the upper-mid tier of Fire Emblem stories, and at best is in the top 3.

> The title of this series is "Fates: was the story as bad as people say?" and the answer is no; it's much worse.

Much worse relative to Awakening and Path of Radiance, maybe, but relative to every other game in the series that doesn't take place in Jugdral and isn't named Binding Blade, and even on it's own merits as a stand-alone story, no; it's much *better*.

All in all, this post was the worst one yet, and in fact the worst reddit post i've ever had the displeasure of witnessing; take everything wrong with the main posts, smush them all together, add in a consistent refusal for Odo to ever bother explaining his own arguments or to give any sort of evidence to back up any of his claims, mix in a sprinkle of his misunderstanding of the concept of thematic discussion leading him to try and claim objectivity in his posts, creating *staggering* amounts of hypocrisy throughout his earlier threads if said claim is taken seriously, and you get this. There was a reason this had to be split into three parts.

See y'all later.

[abyssembraced]

Fire Emblem?

Send me a fandom and I'll tell you my blorbos!

Blorbo: If you want me to stick to Awakening, since that's where Robin's from, then that'd be Lucina! I love her. My daughter <3 (because I married Chrom lmao). I made her absolutely busted in FE Heroes too, though I haven't actually played that in a while.

Though technically Lucina's my second favourite Fire Emblem character overall. First place actually goes to Edelgard! That's My Wife right there. My beloved. I like the other house leaders too, but,,, El <3

...But once again, as much as I love these girls, sadly I don't think I could write them well. But maybe. They're on the list of characters I would consider adding if I ever added another Fire Emblem muse here, just because I love them, but I'd definitely have to replay their respective games first.

Skrunkly: Uhhhhh. So the funny thing is, I usually really like the characters that tend to be described as "pure" or "cinnamon rolls", and just overall those who would fit into this category well, but for some reason with Fire Emblem, I just don't get as attached to them? So I dunno who I'd say for Awakening specifically, but at least for Three Houses I do like Ashe?

Scrimblo Bimblo: Could Henry count as underrated? Probably not, huh. I think he's pretty popular. But I do like him a lot! My funny murder crow guy. And Owain... Probably also doesn't count here, huh. Not sure how popular he is among the fandom, but like. With his appearances in Fates and Warriors, the games themselves sure give him a lot of love. But he's also really funny, and one of my other favourites from Awakening. So... I dunno!

Ashe could probably also fall in this category, since when it comes to the Blue Lions I think most people tend to focus on Dimitri, Felix, and Sylvain (and Ingrid and Dedue?) more than anyone else. But that would be reusing characters, so. hhhhhhh dgdhshf

Glup Shitto: So like. I thought this was gonna be a difficult question but then I remembered. Nobody fucking played Echoes. I feel like anyone from there is free game except for Alm and Celica ashshdfh. So! I remember liking Mae quite a bit, but I think my favourite from there was Conrad! I remember him being really sweet

Too bad I haven't played any of the Japan-exclusive games to have some really obscure favourites asdghsf. I do wanna play Genealogy someday though, if a fan translation exists

Poor Little Meow Meow: I don't like reusing characters for these but. C'mon. I don't think there's an FE character out there that's more controversial than Edelgard von Hresvelg lmao. I have absolutely zero interest in dealing with any of the Discourse, so all I will say is: we love Edelgard in this house. This is an Edelgard Appreciation Zone, or at the very least an Edelgard Tolerating Zone if you personally dislike her.

That said, I also wanna give a shoutout to Takumi from Fates, because I adore him too and still stand by him being one of the better things to come out of Fates. He's a bit of an ass to Corrin at the start, sure, but like. I feel like that's kinda justified?? He doesn't remember Corrin like Hinoka and Ryoma do, so from his perspective some random stranger from the country they are currently at war with has just waltzed in and is basically being treated like a god when they very well could be an enemy spy. And iirc, he does want to accept Corrin and get to know them? But he's smart, and remains wary until Corrin does choose his family's side.

...The Blame Takumi memes are still funny though, I won't lie dghdsf. I started with Conquest, so those memes are actually what led me to look into him more when I got around to playing Birthright

Horse Plinko: Y'know what. Lorenz. Is that unfair to say, given that I never did get around to playing the Golden Deer route? Yeah, kinda. Am I gonna say it anyway, because I'm not sure who else to say? Haha yea

I guess Takumi can get a little bit of bullying for being a grump, but only affectionately, because I still care him and he deserves a hug

Eeby Deeby: Validar and Thales are the easy options, yes, along with all the other villains, but like. Fuck em lmao

[emblemxeno]

JP vs. Localization in Fire Emblem Fates: Revelation

(Okay, for real this time lol)

Again, here’s a link to my sources post.

Fortunately, this route follows suit in terms of good localization quality after Conquest. It’s the shortest out of all the posts, since I don’t really have a lot to talk about. Mostly subtle line changes, references and a few key points of information that were cut out. I also went through Hidden Truths and Heirs of Fate to see if I could add stuff from those on here, but there were no big problems that I found.

Once again, the main part of this post will all be put under the cut. If a chapter isn’t covered, it means I didn’t think there were any differences worth talking about.

I’ll use localized names for characters and locations, unless I feel the need to do otherwise.

I’ll be using she/her when referring to Corrin in this post. (I flipped a coin to decide the gender lol)

Also, note that after Chapter 14, the translation of this route on Fateswartable ends, so I mostly relied on the English patch done by Serenes at that point forward. (I also used PegasusKnight.com as a reference to fall back on if I needed it)

Chapter 7

-A minor gripe I have with localization. The JP version compares Touma (Valla) to hell constantly. To jump ahead a bit, I believe in the JP versions of the End of All Sky/Land/Below tracks are even called The End of All Roads Heaven/Earth/Hell. The Vallites are also often called demons in the JP version, and Anankos himself is known as the ‘Invisible Demon Dragon’.

Another cool thing I just thought of too, is a connection to a popular Japanese short story. Zelda fans might be familiar with the story, “The Spider’s Thread”, which inspired the Ancient Cistern dungeon in Skyward Sword.

The beginning of the story has Buddha walking through paradise (heaven), before coming across a pond. The pond is filled with crystal clear water, and covered with water lilies/lotuses. As Buddha gazes further into the pond, he begins to see the depths of hell.

Sound familiar? “Azura is walking through Hoshido, before coming across a lake. The lake is filled with crystal clear water, and when she gazes into the lake she sees the fallen kingdom of her birth. Valla, the kingdom associated with water lilies/lotuses in the game, has been turned into hell itself.”

This association loses its meaning a bit when the comparisons to hell are a bit toned down, as well as when the Buddhist inspirations were kind of supplanted in favor of Greek renames. It’s not supremely important to the plot as a whole, but it’s something interesting I wanted to bring up.

-In the JP version, while explaining what happened in Valla, Azura eventually says “Using the art of manipulating people’s souls, he (Hydra/Anankos) made the people kill each other.” This bit of the people killing each other was cut in localization.

Chapter 12

-In the JP version, when Corrin asks Flora if she knows anything about dragons, Flora says “Sorry, I don’t know…The ancestral dragon of the Ice Clan has already perished and isn’t part of the legend. I don’t know what role it plays, sorry…” Localization makes her response “I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything... They've been gone so long that we don't even have tales of dragons in the Ice Tribe. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more assistance...”

So, the JP version explicitly says the Ice Dragon is dead (I believe Fates’ second artbook mentioned this as well), whereas the localization only says the First Dragons have been gone for a long time.

Chapter 16

-There’s not really much of a problem that I have with what Ryoma says about Corrin “having leadership qualities at a young age” but I wanted to do comparisons regardless cuz the word choice might lead one to different conclusions. In localization, Ryoma says this:

Ryoma: Huh... So she told us the same thing... I don't think it's in Corrin's nature to lie. And there's a leadership quality about her that just attracts followers. I remember being jealous of her as a child, in fact. Even at such a young age, she displayed the characteristics of a ruler. Silly to be jealous of her, right?

In the JP version, Ryoma says this:

Ryoma: Oh... So, she told you the same thing. …Corrin isn’t one to tell lies. She’s been like that since childhood. She’s always genuine and honest... She has this mysterious appeal that draws people to her. Seeing my younger sister with the qualities of being a ruler... Honestly, it makes me feel envious. …What a ridiculous thing to say, right?

Again, I don’t necessarily have a problem with how it was localized, but some might. The localization version might have people think that Corrin somehow was a fantastic leader at such a young age, but JP is more clear that it was about the qualities she had at a young age that would be valuable as a leader.

Chapter 19

-A minor gripe. In the localization, Azura says that Anankos uses his magic to send Vallites to Nohr and Hoshido to stir up conflict. In the JP version, she says he uses magic, along with the help of a body of water. That’s why whenever you fight Vallites outside of Valla proper, there’s a body of water nearby; Hoshido’s lake (and the ponds shown in Hinoka’s CQ battle which are in the capital) for Chapter 5, the sea for BR chapter 11, the burning falls for BR chapter 21, and the city for Rev chapter 13. Similarly, the consequences of being a victim to the curse are described as “turning into sea foam” in the JP version. Localization as a whole kind of toned down how much water has an influence on the story.

Chapter 23

-Probably the pettiest gripe I have lol. As Arete is fading away from Azura’s arms, Azura has a different reaction in localization and Japanese. In localization, Azura says “Mother? Mother!” while a voice clip of her in-battle pain cries plays. In the JP, she says  “*Sob... Sob*…! Mother... Mother...!”, while a voice clip of her crying plays. Her crying voice clip I don’t recall hearing anywhere else.

This is one of the few times in the you get to see Azura express a heavy and heartfelt emotion, since her rough childhood caused her to remain guarded and stoic around everyone. The equivalents to this scene in other routes is her death scene in Birthright, and her crying with Corrin over Ryoma’s death in Conquest; a normally unflinching and aloof character breaking down is a rarity, and indicates that the cause of it is something to take note of for the character as a whole. Localization softened this aspect, and I take issue with it, despite it probably seeming trivial to most other people.

Chapter 24

-When Corrin is questioning the phantom Mikoto, an exchange happens. In localization, part of it goes like this:

Corrin: But this can't be... Are you truly my mother?

Mikoto: I am. Even as a puppet of Anankos, my spirit at least remains my own.

Corrin: I... I believe you.

In the JP version, it goes like this:

Corrin: It can’t be... …Are you really my mother?

Mikoto: Yes... I became an Invisible servant, controlled by the Invisible King... Even so, I am your mother.

Corrin:  …………

Again, a minor thing that I don’t personally have issue with, but replacing Corrin’s silence with an admittance of belief could make some believe she has “reverted” back to being too naïve.

Chapter 26

-While Gunter is relaying his past, an exchange happens. In localization, it goes like this:

Gunter: I ask myself that, every day. I cannot understand the minds of royals. To you all, we commoners are little more than pawns in your schemes... Or weeds to be killed on a whim.

Corrin: That's not true...

Xander: Is that how people view the royalty?

Ryoma: Such an impression would easily breed powerful resentment...

In the JP version, Corrin, Xander and Ryoma don’t say anything. They just remain silent.

Endgame

-Not a major problem so much as a general thing about the game, but I can think of like... at least three memes that Treehouse inserted into the localization. Now I like memes, but there is no better way to date your media nowadays. One of them was Kana’s “That’s dragon for I love you” which tbh, is kind of cute and isn’t the most well known meme so I guess I can let it slide. Another is Felicia saying “I had one job!” when she messes up in the dining hall, which isn’t that big of a deal since the dining hall is very optional.

The last one I can think of is why I put this specific grievance here, and it’s during Corrin’s speech before facing Anankos.

Corrin: We won't back down! This is my... This is our destiny! Ready your weapons! Fight for your friends! With the Seal of Flames... With the Fire Emblem on our side! We fight for our world!!

Yeah, she says “Fight for your friends” which is everyone’s favorite Ike line from Brawl. Now, this isn’t even a totally inaccurate translation either, but it kind of just... makes the moment funny for the player when it’s supposed to be commanding and serious I guess.

But yeah, not the most important issue by far, but something I’d thought to mention. Hell, it’s not even that bad compared to how they made Peri’s, Effie’s and Hisame’s quirks into exaggerated and tired jokes. And the Beruka-Saizo support. Never forget.

-When Azura and Corrin are by the lake and discuss the latter’s plans to rule, Corrin says this in localization:

Corrin: I'm going to make Valla a wonderful place! In honor of the true last king and for Queen Arete. And everyone who fought... I promise to make them all proud.

In the JP version, she says this:

Corrin: I’ll make the Invisible Kingdom (Valla) into a great land. For the previous monarch, Queen Shenmei (Arete)… And for all of my allies who fought beside me. I promise.

So, JP version only mentions Arete as the reigning monarch of Valla. Which makes sense, cuz unless there was some wild “keeping the bloodline pure” shenanigans in Valla, Arete being the Queen keeps in line with what we know about the rest of Valla’s history. Arete was royalty from birth, as was her sister Mikoto. Arete is the one who passed down Lost in Thoughts and the pendant to Azura.  

[fatesdeepdive]

Entry 53: Home Sweet Abusive Home

I unlocked the Conquest version of My Castle at the end of the last chapter. It’s basically the same; there are different building styles, Lilith attacks instead of heals, the shops sell Nohrian weapons instead of Hoshidan ones, etc. I’m going to be ignoring castle stuff this time and instead analyzing classes.

Class Profile - Nohr Prince/Princess

Corrin and Kana’s default class, wields swords and dragon stones. Balanced with good HP and Strength. The class’s first skill, Nobility, boosts EXP gained. The other skill, Dragon Fang, gives a skill stat determined chance to do a special attack that does 1.5 damage. Dragon Fang also has unique animations that have Corrin attacking with dragon arms. Design wise, the black and white stripes are nice but a bit busy. The cape is nice, but the random slits over the princess version’s thighs are dumb.

Class Profile - Hoshido Noble

Nohr Prince/Princess’s promotion in Birthright and an optional promotion in Revelation. Stat wise, it has better Strength, Skill, and Defense than its Nohrian counterpart, as well as the ability to use staves. It’s first ability, Dragon Ward, gives nearby allies a luck based chance to half damage taken. This fits with its more supportive role. On the other hand, its second ability Hoshidan Unity gives a 10% boost to the activation rate of all skills. Design wise, it’s a silver and gold version of Corrin’s normal design with a few details that make it look more Hoshidan. It’s a great design, assuming you ignore the fact that the female version isn’t wearing pants.

Class Profile - Nohr Noble

The Conquest version of Hoshido Noble. Has slightly better Speed, Magic, and Resistance, as well as the ability to use tomes. Its first skill, Draconic Hex, lowers the stats of enemies after combat. The other skill, Nohrian Trust, is really interesting, allowing Corrin to use the battle skills of supporting allies. I love the black coloring with hints of magenta and the tattered cape, but I have to groan at the cleavage and continued lack of pants for female units. Also something I noticed: Nohr Nobles have a shield on their left shoulder, while Hoshidans have a shield on their right shoulder. It’s a nice little detail.

Also, you know how I stole Rinkah and Sakura’s weapons? The damn game gave them back!

Conquest Chapter 7: A Dragon’s Decree

Moron and his Nohrian siblings return to Castle Krakenburg. Garon praises Xander for invading Hoshido. Xander brings up Moron, who Garon apparently can’t see from ten feet away, and Garon is shocked that Moron isn’t dead. Garon yells at Moron for coming home and accuses him of being a spy. Xander insists Moron is loyal and brings up the fight with Ryoma. Iago believes this to be a ruse, which makes sense. He did that shit in Birthright.

Moron asks about the exploding sword. Garon very convincingly pretends to know nothing. Garon uses the fact that Moron is suspicious of the repeated attempts on his life as evidence that Moron is a traitor and orders Xander to execute him. So glad we came back.

Camilla and Elise beg for mercy and Xander refuses to kill his brother. Iago says that makes Xander a traitor, too. Moron says he’ll kill himself to protect Xander. Garon, overjoyed at the idea of suicide, decides to leave it up to Anankos, the dragon god who was mentioned like once in Birthright. Anankos whispers to Garon to spare Moron, if he passes a test. Moron must suppress a rebellion in the ice tribe to prove his loyalty, without any help from his siblings or the Nohrian military. Something about Moron going off alone to enemy territory to prove his loyalty feels oddly familiar...hope this isn’t secretly a ploy to kill Moron again.

Xander says that taking out an entire army singlehandedly is impossible. Moron agrees to the mission. After Moron leaves, Garon monologues about how Moron is going to lose all hope and wish for death. Real glad we chose to side with Nohr, this truly was the right decision.

Xander, hearing Garon say evil shit out loud, does not decide to stop working for Garon. He says he knows what he has to do, but spoiler alert, it isn’t overthrow his evil father.

Moron goes through the woods of the Forlorn, where you fight Leo in Birthright, with only Lilith accompanying him. Faceless show up and attack, surrounding Moron. Felicia shows up and takes one out with a dagger. Moron points out that he had to destroy Felicia’s friends and family without help, but shrugs it off because they aren’t technically at the Ice Village yet.

This battle is actually pretty good, taking on a ton of enemies with only two units. At the start of turn three, Silas and Elise show up to rescue Corrin. At the start of turn four, Elise’s retainers Arthur and Effie join them. Arthur mentions that he’s late because a bird stole his map and Effie’s late because her armor made her sink into the swamp. Elise mentions that Xander planned out this rescue behind Garon’s back.

Arthur

Arthur is Talitu's rude Wind Mage son...wait, wrong Arthur. Arthur is a Monk who...okay, once more time. Arthur is Elise’s unlucky but heroic Fighter retainer. I love Arthur as a character, this boisterous, cheesy, superhero fighting for justice. His design has this massive lantern jaw and he wears a superhero costume with a cape. His personal skill, Misfortune, makes critical hits more likely on both him and his enemies. This is fitting for the running gag of him being supernaturally unlucky, something reflected in gameplay by him having an abysmal luck stat.

Effie

Elise’s other retainer, a Knight. She seems to be a protective warrior. Honestly, I didn’t pick up too much about her personality because I was distracted by her utterly monstrous strength star. Effie is buff. Her personal skill, Puissance, pairs well with this by boosting her damage if she’s far stronger than an enemy. Personally, I’m not too fond of Effie’s design. Her face feels to girly and looks like she’s wearing make-up, which doesn’t match her personality. The big shoulder pads look weird and the boob plate is eye-roll inducing. At least it’s better than her Heroes design, which is atrocious.

After battle, Felicia volunteers to lead us to her village. The camera pans over to reveal Iago was responsible for the faceless attack. Because he’s an evil asshole who I hate.

Also I grabbed Mozu between chapters.

Support: Corrin/Elise

C: Corrin stumbles upon Elise practicing punching in a field. Elise insists she's just picking flowers because she's sweet. Eventually, Elise admits that she's training so she won't be a burden to the army.

B: Corrin trains Elise to grow stronger. Elise struggles to do push-ups.

A: Elise sobs about being pathetic. Corrin insists that war isn't about fighting, it's about having a pure desire for peace. The amount of people Corrin kills contradicts this.

S: Corrin gives Elise flowers to propose to her. I vomit.

Review: Setting aside the incestuous pedophilia that ends this one, not bad. I think Elise works more than Sakura because at least she’s entertaining when complaining about being a burden.

Support: Arthur/Felicia

C: Felicia tells Arthur she's a bad maid because she's incompetent and clumsy. Arthur relates.

B: Arthur explains that the best way to deal with problems is to be carefree. As he walks, he almost slips on a banana peel (despite the army not storing bananas) and is swarmed by mosquitos (which don't exist in this region).

A: Arthur tells a story of a time he tried to save a drowning person, hit his head, and almost drowned. The person he tried to save was helped by someone else. Arthur explains that he and Felicia shouldn't worry about mishaps.

S: Arthur asks Felicia to meet with him so he can propose. They fall in a pit, Setsuna style, and Felicia accidentally freezes Arthur's fingers so he can't get the ring out of his pocket.

Review: Paring up these absolute messes of people is hilarious.

Support: Mozu/Silas

C: Mozu asks Silas if she should just leave the army and go back home (to the corpse filled ruins of her village I guess) because she isn't very strong. Silas volunteers to train her to be stronger.

B: Mozu says Silas shouldn't waste time training her. Silas tells her her "I'm too weak to be good" mindset is holding her back and that her wasting her potential is a sin against her murdered parents. Goddamn.

A: Mozu, believing she has potential, improves. Silas says he wasn't talented as a kid and only became a good knight because he never gave up. Mozu promises to cook for him.

S: Silas proposes so he can have pie every day. Mozu fantasizes about killing people with S-Rank pair up bonuses.

Review: Not bad, but needed a certain spark to be great. Silas telling Mozu that attitude is everything is interesting, but it kinda falls off towards the end.

Support: Effie/Jakob

C: Jakob bakes a cake for Corrin. Effie eats it. Jakob tries to physically stop her but she shrugs off everything he throws at her.

B: Effie works out by lifting water barrels and tells Jakob that she needs to be strong so she can protect her friends, even if it costs her her own life. Jakob says he doesn't want her to die for him because he'd have to spend the rest of his life feeling guilty. Ugh!

A: Effie says that she can't not protect him because they're friends. Jakob says that's fine, just don't die in the process.

S: Jakob bakes a cake with protein powder instead of flour to propose to Effie. Effie says she isn't going to marry him for his baking skills, but for his good heart.

Review: Pretty good. Effie is amusing throughout this Support and the discussion of dying for friends is nice.

[davidmann95]

So you've talked a lot about Darkseid, but what about the other New Gods?

SO THIS HAS BEEN IN MY INBOX FOR ALMOST AS LONG AS THIS BLOG’S BEEN AROUND AND I JUST FINALLY FINISHED FOURTH WORLD

Well that sure was something. My musings on some major players that I either have substantial thoughts on, or where I especially think the majority consensus/interpretation has subsequently gotten them wrong (a state Kirby is well aware of, because a HUGE part of “Even Gods Can Die!” is him being frustrated at subsequent handlings of the characters even by 1984 mucking things up):

Orion: Perhaps the most hard-done by as a result of Kirby never being able to fully finish Fourth World as he had imagined it, as his character arc ends on a cliffhanger for a decade and is forced into a rapid completion later. When he emerges, while a warrior born he’s also every bit the classical, magnificent hero you expect to see in a superhero comic to try and overshadow his inner demons, while by the end of New Gods he’s embraced not only his true face (the OTHER face, as his father would put it) in the fight against Apokolips but the murderous, sadistic rage that is his birthright, reveling in inflicting agony and very much the berserker others have since portrayed him as. Surely as much a product of his trauma from a childhood on Apokolips (a detail frequently glossed over) and a sense of being unwanted as anything genetic, it’s ultimately unconditional love for him as he truly is in Hunger Dogs that lets him overcome his fear that he can’t be anything but a monstrous tool in service of better people than himself, and embrace ‘the tomorrow overture’. Even his anger has its righteous if tragic place as a primal force of upheaval: “It defies time! It stands firm against the hammers of change! It mocks life and defies death!” I won’t get to it for awhile yet, but very curious what Simonson does with him.

Lightray: Rules! He’s the closest the New Gods have to a traditional superhero, and it’s in that capacity that while a lousy warrior next to Orion (Kalibak thinks little of his attempt at fighting him, mockingly deeming him a “callow little killer”), his strength is in transformation: he makes himself light, he turns a tormented weapon into the glory boat, a machine armed against the New Gods into a weapon against Darkseid, Orion from a man alone into a friend. He’s not a warrior, but he’s the one who makes a better world worth waging war for and who might one day make such war unnecessary. Also he and Orion have definitely fucked.

Mister Miracle: Not WILDLY off the mark since, but it’s interesting that as I expect a result of JLI he’s been written so often since as an everymanish, relatable, bordering-on-comedic figure, when under Kirby he was very much the archetypal good guy. One often committed to freeing others as he had been freed himself, in the likes of Ted Brown and Shilo Norman, an avenue I’m surprised hasn’t been explored more often from what I’ve seen. Also worth noting: Darkseid declared the moment he got his hands on the kid that Granny would be twice as hard on him as others, and that it would eventually drive the boy away and let the war resume. Which not only indicates Darkseid’s understanding of the subtlety needed in control, but would seem to take Scott’s rebellion out of his own hands…except that at the moment of his escape Darkseid still offered him a choice, implored the boy to allow him to “complete the destruction of Scott Free – so you may live with the majesty that is the power of DARKSEID!” And instead he turned his back on his god and chose to be what he is.

Barda: Shockingly, great as she’s been since, her background is often severely mischaracterized. The shorthand is “love saved her and turned her from a servant of evil to a champion of good!”, but that’s…while not entirely wrong, a bad way of presenting it. When she leaves Apokolips initially, even after she starts hanging out with Scott Free and Oberson after having helped the former escape years earlier, she still believes in Darkseid. She fights and hates her former allies not because she’s turned against his vision of the universe (this is in fact a major aspect often overlooked - under Kirby Darkseid’s agents don’t simply fear him, they sincerely believe in him and his vision of how the universe works) but because she sees them as loathsome, brutish executors of his grand design. In short, she doesn’t think it’s the system that’s the problem, but a bunch of bad apples. It’s her experience with freedom and simple pleasures and life on Earth, her lingering guilt over the death of her friend Auralie as eventually manifested in her protection and training of Shiloh Norman, and yes, her eventual realized love for Scott, that brings her around to realizing she truly desires a life beyond what Darkseid can offer.

Forever People: Okay I actually don’t have a ton to say about the Forever People, though I do think they’re underrated and underutilized. Naive and in over their heads as the frequently are they’re also the best of their peers, believing in freedom and transformation and the potential of those around them to become better - their defining moment for me is when they reassure Sonny Sumo that having the power of the Anti-Life Equation doesn’t make him a monster. “Where we come from the Anti-Life Equation is one of many others–almost as awesome!! But they merely exist!! It’s we who live!!”

Metron: The big figure I haven’t really been able to crack. Machinery as not necessarily cold mechanization but extensions of ourselves and our souls, and able to nourish them in turn, is a big aspect of Fourth World, but Metron as the embodiment of mechanization and knowledge feels like not just an outsider as he’s framed but one who never quite became whatever Kirby had in mind for him, making his crucial role at the end of Hunger Dogs a bit of a non-sequitur for me. I’d be curious to hear what other people think.

Desaad: God Desaad’s been made boring. Not that he isn’t fairly one-dimensional under Kirby too, but his craft and awful glee as the god of torture isn’t just in strapping people to tables and poking them with unpleasant tools, it’s in manipulating their emotions and agonies to a fever pitch - he should be such an unsettling figure, and instead he’s a simpering helpless toady.

Highfather: Not a perfect figure, given how he’s framed with the likes of Fastbak, and the Forever People, and the Pact, willing to deploy fear as a weapon in the name of peace as Darkseid will use chaos in the name of a larger order, but always trying - as with Darkseid, an imperfect vessel of what he represents, but capable of growth and realization as a leader.

Steppenwolf/Heggra: Essential to understanding The Pact, they’re the old ways of the world and war, petty despots and warrior-kings, supplanted by fascism in Darkseid.

Darkseid: So I’ve discussed Darkseid before in terms of his broad use and ideas, but the very specific ways Kirby presented him have their own dimensions. In the world of superheroes he’s larger-than-life and often such in here too, but in rare moments, and by the end entirely as all artifice is stripped away? Kirby’s Darkseid is a profoundly human figure. He recognizes the irony that the Forever People believe in letting all be who they are, for that very need to fulfill himself is why he must pursue conquest (“And of course - that’s the pity of it!”). While he thinks to himself “Oh, how heroes LOVE to flaunt their nobility in the face of death! Yet THEY know better than most that war is but the COLD game of the BUTCHER!” he too believes in “Boldness! Risk! The raw meat of existence!” even as he consigns himself to the role of puppetmaster rather than warrior. He does or so he tells himself “no more than what HAS to be done!!” rather than indulging in cruelty for its own sake. He dresses up in ridiculous costumes for his schemes, he gets sarcastic, he recognizes honor and respects worthy foes, he feels love, he craves the laughter of a friend, he fears the obsolesce of his preferred way of doing things, he tells himself that should he achieve omnipotence others will find “eternal shelter”. He’s a person, one capable of a range of emotions, but he is the TIGER FORCE AT THE CORE OF ALL THINGS regardless…not because he is a mythic unstoppable force, but because every day he rises and believes in himself over all others, because there is a black hole within him that he can only hope dominance might fill regardless of what pain he finds in the process. But as Mister Miracle’s battle with the Lump foretold, when left truly alone over a world that is himself he will be only within “a self-made prison”, reflections of his own fear and agony.

[sea-owl]

A Look Into Fates

I came across @lucisevofficial analysis of Corrin's character who to put it into simple terms is an abused victim struggling with years of isolation and their half dragon nature.

In this analysis I noticed a few good points that I want to bring up with both royal sets of siblings. Heart vs Head.

To start off I do think all eight of them have been abused in the environments they grew up in. Not intentionally for some, but it's there. And I will not take slander against either sets of siblings.

Let's start with fan favorite, the Norhian siblings.

To start they did not raise Corrin, get that out of your minds right now. (In my opinion neither sets of siblings really knew Corrin, but that's for another post.) They visited an isolated child and taught them some sword play. Did they visit more when Corrin started more advanced tactics, maybe. But Corrin's main companions told through multiple supports were a disowned, orphaned, nobel, an old general whose family was killed by the king, and two other prisoners of war. All forced to serve Corrin, but they all made the best of it, some still found love and loyalty to their lord. Those were the people that Corrin grew up with.

Sorry for the mini rant, onto the siblings. They put Corrin on a pedestal and saw them as a light for Nohr. In their bloody concubine war they were already hardened, with the exception of Elise, by having different siblings try to kill them. They are extremely led by emotions, which I think is a huge attraction by some players. The Norhian siblings take the betrayal a lot more personal than their Hoshidan counter parts do. Such as shown when they use names like big sister/big brother, terms of endearment in a sarcastic voice. This I believe is due to them seeing Corrin as this figure of light that is now fighting against them. In birthright they get nasty, and in conquest, they stand by as atrocities are done. In revolutions we have them join not so much because they listened to Corrin but because of a feeling, a whim,or they saw no other choice.

Onto the Hoshido siblings, they are very much head rather than heart, and this due to their environment as well. In Hoshido it is very much duty and honor bound type of mind set. Failure and dishonor is the worse thing for these people. As seen with Hinoka becoming a soilder at 7, Ryoma's ritual suicide, and Takumi's possession. They are raised young with this mindset and it leads to a borderline toxicity that somewhat reminds me of Zuko and his obsession with honor. These kids were not physically harmed, but their mental states were definitely put through the ringer/manipulated. I think this subtler form of abuse is best shown with their relationship to Azura. They are obviously more loving, but still reserved, when she's on their side, but when she betrays them, betrays Hoshido, their home, emotions are turned off. There is no doubt in my mind they at least slightly feared Mikoto too, as shown what she's willing to do due to her own enviroment.

In relationship to Corrin at first they are somewhat stuck in the past of the child they knew, but that's kind of expected sonce Corrin was with them for like 24 hours before choosing, and in birthright they show Corrin that reserved love, as they are not as open with emotions. If you look at conquest they are much more calm when facing Corrin. In revelations they listen to Corrin before they join.

Even lookong at their retainers it's really telling. In Norh resources are scarce, you find what you can and cling to it. That's why majority if not all the Norhian retainers were found or picked up from tge streets. In Hoshido everything and everyone has a place, and a station. You learn it young and are trained to be loyal to it. Looking at even Corrin. They took Jakob in and clung to him to keep him. With Kaze he was trained young to be Corrin's retainer, and years later still holds a lotalty to the royal they were trained to serve but has never met until they spared them. Now all 8 of the siblings are friends with their retainers, you spend all your time around someone you're gonna be friends. It's just intresting how they started out, but still have similar relationships.

Like I mentioned earlier all eight of these kids went through abuse, it's practically been nonstop war for majority of their lives. How they react to the same situations, ie Corrin choosing or not choosing a side, is really telling of what they developed as "survival mode." And what I also think is intresting is what they try to project, is almost the opposite of how they really are in survival mode.

[theseerasures]

Which part specifically? I mean, yeah, the whole game is a disaster, but I'd love to hear specific points. There was so much I didn't like about Fates that it just collectively merges as 'bad' in my mind.

it's not really anything specific tbh!! because the way Fates is misogynistic is not different from the way the other Fire Emblems (that i’ve. played. it’s possible all the ones pre-Sacred Stones were actually Forbidden Feminist Utopias) also carry that unmistakable whiff of misogyny. it's not done out of malice, it's just...a franchise that loves to play high fantasy tropes straight, particularly the bit about Restoring the Good Monarch. i never got the sense that they thought hard about the fact that the dude protags (Ephraim, Ike, Chrom) get intricate coming of age stories about tempering their talents for murder with wisdom, while all the lady "protags" (Eirika, Elincia, Micaiah) mostly don't change at all and just kinda swan around doing the "we are ethereal maidens too good for this sinful earth" thing, and when they do wibble it's always about how they wish they could be as "strong" as their dude counterparts except they inevitably can't and don't want to be, because war is bad!!! there's too much war in this war game franchise, buy our next DLC for how to solve war with war

(Lucina's a weird case, but that's why i love her, and...i suspect the only reason Lucina got to be the way she is was because she was doing DRAG, which is a rabbit hole that we don't have time for.)

Fates (sidebar: i played Revelations but i know what happens in Birthright and Conquest. i ended up doing all the Paralogues, because i was morbidly curious about how many different ways you could tell a "no dad!!! it's your dream" story, and the answer was "around four, so spreading them across TWENTY ONE versions basically creates the story equivalent of ultra skim milk.") doesn't do anything functionally different from its predecessors, it's just...more egregious this time, because so much of the story feels exclusively catered to drawing attention to it. i get the sense that the devs were trying to aim for bigger, more sophisticated storytelling than what they did with Awakening, which is why we got Fire Emblem: More Royals Than Ever and the requisite chin-stroking about families of blood vs. families of choice, but that they were trying to be Deep (tm) just made the parts that have always been shallow in the franchise look uglier.

i'm just gonna talk about the Royals, because the story privileges the Royals to a truly mind-bending degree (see above: high fantasy, monarchism). with the Royals we have:

the Hoshido/Nohr sibling matchy-matchy that is eerie from the outset (did Sumeragi and Garon set TIMERS so they'd impregnate women at roughly the same time and murder the babies who didn't come out the right gender?), even before you get to the part where they are "foils" for each other in p much aesthetic only, since their personalities are not actually that different when you get down to it. you have the Dutiful Big Bro (Xander and Ryoma), the Closeted Lesbian Big Sis (Camilla and Hinoka, representing opposite ends of the gender presentation spectrum), the Insecure Lil Bro (Takumi and Leo), and the Incorruptibly Pure Lil Sis (Sakura and Elise, the latter of whom for her crime of being outgoing was punished with death in Birthright, which...yikes)

so like. extremely paint by numbers right from conception (heh). why couldn't Xander have been the one who was Naive and Not Ready for This World? because he is Boy, which means he can only be flawed in the Boy Ways, so he must be Too Worldly instead. why couldn't Camilla be the oldest? she's already jaded and weird, so why not make her the heir just to shake things up? because she is Girl and Too Weird and Wearing BLACK, and weird girls in black can't be queen--even if Xander dies, she can't be queen.

Azura is clearly supposed to The Chrom Surrogate of this game insofar as she's your blue haired pal with whom you share a destiny, but she is The Chrom Surrogate but MAXIMUM GIRL, so she's the quintessential non-combatant class, she has a special song that soothes the hearts of warriors, she LITERALLY DIES FOR THE PEACE (TM) IN BIRTHRIGHT AND CONQUEST. (and obviously her hair can't be the Fire Emblem Classic shade of blue--that's too masculine.)

wrt the second gen, lineage is passed through the dad in the eugenics factory this time, which is on paper a fine shakeup from in Awakening, but...ALL the definitely-royal second gens are boys? don't get me wrong: i actually adore what they did with Forrest--like, fucking superb u gender-nonconforming fashion-loving Prince of Peace--but Forrest being an actually interesting inversion of what we expect (that isn't played for laughs!!!) makes all the other boys come off as much blander than they could be. why can't Kiragi be a dirt and hunting loving GIRL? i love Shiro's supports with Kana, but his whole "boisterous laid back but also inferiority complex" deal would be much less tired if he were the Crown Princess instead of Prince. i suppose if Siegbert were Girl with Anxiety and Kingship he'd just...be Lucina, but that's not necessarily a bad thing!!! bitches love Lucina!! (i'm bitches)

the thing is all of this would be...well. not FINE, but more acceptable if they did some things to flesh out those cookie-cutter personalities. Fates didn't deliver for any of the Royals to the extent i wanted it to, but even for what we had the girls got markedly less than the boys did. the moment that made me go "hoo boy maybe i will make poast about this" was in the climax when all the Five Whatevers lit up to form the Fire Emblem and we got some nice concept art of Takumi Leo Ryoma and Xander making :O faces, while the girls...were also there! in Revelation i'm pretty sure you can cut out Camilla Hinoka Elise and Sakura and leave the plot basically unchanged. you could say they fare better in Birthright and Conquest, but you could just as easily say they fare WORSE, because what they get to do if they're NPCs in those routes are: be sad and die, be sad and be spared from dying, be sad and get even weirder before being spared from dying, or be sad.

Camilla and Hinoka feel like the most wasted potential, because we haven't had as many "female royal who is actually pretty down with murder" characters before. but the devs clearly had no idea with what to DO with that, so (outside of her daddy and mommy issues, the details of which we learn about via supports with Niles the resident sex pest and hoo boy the "queer rep" in this game is whole other can of worms) Camilla became your momsistergirlfriend with built-in innovative airbag technology, whose creepiness is played for laughs, and Hinoka was...wait which one was Hinoka again

i am partly just being glib for comic effect, but like--the underlying problems are there, no matter how seriously or generously you want to read it. Fates doesn't go out of its way to mistreat its women; it just doesn't expend any effort thinking about them, so the misogyny breaks loose and stands out anyway.