#rey discourse

[kkbardd]

asushin & kaworei, my 2 favorite neon genesis ships <33

[amitybee]

like honestly what is it with modern fandom and just hating shipping? shipping is PART of fandom. i see so many posts hating on shipping and how it somehow ruins the canon of the media it’s pulled from. (don’t even get me started on moral ship discourse)

personally i love shipping, it’s my favorite part of fandom. i think it’s really fun and interesting to fantasize about ships, to write about ships, to draw ships. i love it. please tell me i am not alone?😭 are there other sailors still in this vast sea we call fandom?

[floofiestboy]

Every time I see a post whining about Rei, I wonder if they’re aware that the only reason why Detective Conan has figures now is because of akam’s overwhelming popularity post-M20.

The Darkest Nightmare (M20) made almost 2 billion yen more than M19. The Crimson Love Letter (M21) only made around 600 million more than M20, then meanwhile Zero the Enforcer (M22) came out and made over 2 billion yen than M21 again. The only non-akam movie that saw the same kind of jump in box office profits is The Million-dollar Pentagram (M27) this year.

It’s impossible to understate the permanent effect that M20 had on the franchise profitability as a whole. It turned Detective Conan into a popular fandom among adults. How much money have you spent on the series you spend all your time complaining about? You can’t be surprised when they cater to the demographic that’s actually opening their wallets.

[anima-nostrae]

Why shipping is so intensely hated in older fandoms?

Because of my person being entrenched in both the Rings of Power and Star Wars (sequel trilogy and the Acolyte specifically) fandoms and conversations online, I have noticed a curious thing happening. Now of course, I am aware all of it has been taking place for a long time before that, but recently a pattern has been developing.

Notably, the hate “shipping” or “shippers” had been receiving in online spaces.

Using both fandoms I already mentioned as a sort of trial group, let me illustrate what I mean by a “pattern” - but first, let’s try to define the whole shipping thing.

The basic thing to understand about it is that not everyone would explain it the same way. I would assume the most universal understanding of it would mean “shipping” to be simply wishing for two characters to become a couple at one point or another in the story. In that understanding, this might also manifest in some people’s minds as “I want these two to kiss” as well as “I want these two to have sex.” Which is true.

Which is also a very flattening description of the phenomena.

People are shipping characters that canonically hate each other, that don’t know each other, that come from two different media altogether. People are shipping characters that have minimal interactions, but these in themselves have that specific element about them, that little umph that normal people would call “chemistry”, so they want to see more from them. Most of the time, and I do mean most of them, not all, these opinions and jokes on the internet are just that.

There was a post about it, one which I cannot find anywhere but in the recesses of my mind, but it made a point to say shipping wasn’t this overly sexual thing where the fans partook in the practice simply to see their favourite characters engage physically before their eyes, but because there was something about the both of them, some strange, mirroring quality that made their interactions simply irresistible to witness, be them anything. A fight scene, a conversation, a mention.

Ones that come to mind are, more recently, Haladriel, *Rings of Power’*s Galadriel and Halbrand-version-of-Sauron, Oshamir, The Acolyte’s main characters, and Reylo.

Of course, Reylo.

We have noticed this, yes? How, most of the time, people that enjoy dynamics between various characters are called “insane”, “stupid”, “child-like”, and how they are blamed for writers partaking in generally controversial choices because “they are just caving-in” and “pandering to shippers”?

This is a feminism - adjacent piece, and quite a short read actually!

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

In Defense of Shinji/Rei

Out of all the pairings in the Evangelion fandom, Shinji/Rei is one of the most controversial and least popular, especially here on tumblr. It did have some popularity at one point but that has died down in favor of Kawoshin and Asurei. It’s a ship that I, and many others, feel is often mischaracterized and dismissed due to its more controversial elements but one that is honestly very emotional and deserves less hate in my opinion, as do it’s shippers who people also have a misguided view of. Fandom in general has become more moralistic and puritanical in recent years. It’s like no one learned a thing from the SU fandom discourse where people were bullied or called homophobic for liking a certain pairing over the other.

Argument 1: she’s his mother/sister

The most common criticism of the pairing is that it’s incest and that their relationship is that of a brother-sister or mother-son. First, Rei’s whole arc in the show is that she’s not just a clone or copy of Yui or Lilith. She’s her own person with her own desires which is why her loyalty to Gendo wanes as she becomes more of an individual. Her DNA also isn’t that similar to Shinji and only a small amount of Yui’s was used. The rest was affected by Lilith hence the differences in their appearance. So there is a little bit of blood relation but it’s not on the same level of say Bwen or Pinecest. Incest is terrible because it’s a betrayal of family trust and abuse but Shinji and Rei met as teens and were not raised as siblings, nor did he know of her origin until Ritsuko explained it.

I’ve also seen the argument that their bond is sibling-like or Shinji views her as a Madonna/mother figure. Anno has stated that he intended there to be a “love triangle” with the pilot trio and show’s proposal described Rei as having “learned about feelings when she fell in love”. While that info comes from Reddit and may not be reliable, it does challenge the idea that there was no intention for their dynamic to be romantic.

Next, antis really take that elevator scene out of context where Shinji was complimenting her on being like a mom while ignoring him telling her she’d make a good housewife. The rebuilds and manga make their connection more blatant but it was always there. Misato, Toji and Kensuke all tease Shinji about his crush and the two act as friends after warming up despite their icy first interactions. There may be some maternal aspects to it but it’s rather simplistic to dumb their bond down to a family connection. It seems antis argue that they’re siblings because the romantic implications are uncomfortable and antis don’t want to admit that they do have feelings for each other.

Argument 2: it’s misogynistic and queer erasure

Okay, this is a less common argument against it but one I’ve seen from popular Eva analysis writers that view Kawoshin as the only valid pairing for Shinji. I’ve seen it used against Asushin and Marishin too. This goes hand and hand with the idea that Shinji views Rei as a Madonna and is misogynistic. I have a lot of thoughts about the “Shinji is an incel misogynist and Asuka did nothing wrong” discourse but that’s for another day. He’s not a perfect uwu soft boy but fans seem to base his entire characterization off the hospital scene in rather single issue Eva analyses that cherry-pick certain scenes or dialogue.

The argument that it’s queer erasure is one I’m starting to despise. Yes, there are homophobic dudebro fans who hate Kawoshin but not everyone who prefers a “straight” pairing is anti gay. Shinji could still be bisexual and be in a m/f relationship. I’ve also seen some ship him in a polycule with Rei and Kaworu. Plus, not everyone has to interpret the show or character the same way. The writers made it so people can view Kawoshin as romantic and Shinji as queer, but never demanded that be the only possible interpretation.

This kind reminds me of something I’ve occasionally seen in the Ben 10 fandom too. A few fans, not all of them, treating the wholesome gay ship as the only good pairing because of the problematic elements in the m/f ships or because they view the male protagonist as a misogynist. The “male character is sexist or a bad boyfriend so let’s make him gay” is also a fandom trope that kind of irritates me. Not every ship has be gay or a girlboss romance either.

Argument 3: they’re kids and you can’t ship them

This is one of the least common criticisms but one that I’ve occasionally encountered. First, they’re 14 which is around the time a lot of teens start dating. Second, romance =/= sex and child/teen characters can have romantic feelings for each other. Yes, ship wars over fictional kids can escalate but there’s nothing wrong with just liking a pairing. This post about Chihiro and Haku’s bond from Spirited Away kind of applies here too.

My thoughts: why do I love this pairing?

I first fell in love with this ship because I watched the rebuilds first on Amazon Prime and didn’t know the series was on Netflix because my account, embarrassingly, still has parental controls on it. I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea but I liked them. Shinji was a character I really connected to and so was Rei. Their relationship got me a bit emotional and the scene where Shinji attempts to save her had me on the edge of my seat, while the scene where Shinji accepts Rei Q got a tear out of me as did the apology scene in 3.0+1.0.

If I had to compare them to any other pairing, which I’ve done before, it would be Hodaka/Hina from Weathering with You which also is a bit divisive and a bit of a tearjerker. Ironically, EoE is one of Makoto Shinkai’s favorites and he considers Anno an inspiration. Everything from their bond to Hodaka’s character and Hina’s arc of a blue haired girl, blackish-blue in Hina’s case, that’s lived a difficult life and who’s only purpose is to be a sacrificial lamb, learning to pray for herself is a lot like Shinji/Rei, down the ending of WWY being a lot like that of 2.22. The scene where Hodaka gives Hina a promise ring is also a little like the “smile” moment from Episode 6/1.11.

Conclusion

In short, Shinji/Rei isn’t a bad pairing and is overhated and misrepresented by many in the fandom. It’s fine to dislike it or prefer another ship but one can do so without chomping at the bit to paint its shippers as homophobes, misogynists or people with incest fetishes or Oedipal complexes. Many of us like it because it’s one of the least toxic relationships in the series and is honestly a very powerful story. Are there some questionable elements in it? Sure, but you can like a ship even if it’s not up to golden moral standards and expecting every pairing to be unproblematic is ridiculous. Real life is much more grey than what moralistic fans claim.

[reineyday]

why do they keep making bucky a government-manipulated pawn 😭 from the american military to hydra to whatever weirdass public relations campaign valentina is pushing the thunderbolts through (see: end credit graphics & the cereal campaign), like he had his brief time on the run and his goats in wakanda but he's sucked back into a sketchy institution once again like what are they doing with him. sure the movie was fun, but every time i think about it i just end up head in hands.

[jellyjamheadobb]

It came to me in a vision

[evanpeterswifeyyy]

I love being slightly problematic

[i-hope-this-is-a-phase]

Since Twitter is being Twitter, let's do something more fun:

Discourse, fraud, and propaganda are ENCOURAGED. Anons are WELCOME

[theweeklydiscourse]

Tbh I’ve never really viewed Han’s death as an insurmountable moral obstacle in Kylo’s redemption arc. This could be because I personally don’t have many strong or passionate feelings about him as a character, but I also think that from a story perspective, it’s because his death has a relevant narrative function for Kylo’s character arc.

The fact that the movies take the time to show the viewer his guilt and turmoil over the event, telling Rey that he didn’t hate Han, Snoke berating him for being so shaken by it, these are clear examples of his progression towards redemption. Especially considering that Han had already forgiven his son for killing him and his death acted as a symbolic gesture to give him a push in the right direction. Because it was precisely Han’s death that was the catalyst for Ben’s development in the subsequent movies. I guess I just don’t really see it as a huge deal, Han died loving his son and what better way to honour his sacrifice than for it to eventually culminate in his son returning back to the light?

[ct-hardcase]

one thing I have noticed in the last few years of discourse about star wars canon is the attitude from some parts of fandom, where when people go "hey, I don't like this problematic aspect of canon/I don't like that this canon significantly contradicts the other", others will respond, stating that star wars is a tapestry of stories, and that it's fine, actually, because you can just take the parts you want and/or to just cobble one's own canon together from whatever.

this isn't bad advice per se, and if that's someone's preferred way of interpreting canon or dealing with discrepancies, I'm genuinely happy they reached that solution (hell, I even do it myself sometimes—rey mind-tricking finn and poe in the tros novelization is something I absolutely choose to ignore on account of it being ooc and not in the movie), but the majority of the time, I like treating canon as a puzzle that I can put together, and when some of the pieces simply can't fit right, or if there's blatant disrespect to the other stories in the tapestry (hi, caleb in tbb), I don't think it's wrong to be pissed at that and expect the corporate entity managing the product to do better.

[dandelionjack]

so it was my mother’s birthday a couple of days ago, and as a present my grandma gave her (and the whole family to boot) tickets to a mini london tour with a guide, specifically focused on islington, in russian obviously since she doesn’t speak much english. led by this eccentric gentleman in a bowler hat who’s from moscow but has lived here for 19 years and has been leading guided tours for ten.

the tour was fun and informative. lots of tall tales mixed in with historical facts and local art history too. but the guide himself... man. imagine a cross between eddie redmayne and peter capaldi. 40ish. salt and pepper hair. hooked nose roman profile. educated. witty. storyteller. dresses like some kind of urban wizard or as-yet-unseen incarnation of the doctor. mischievous glint in his eye. learns the name of everybody in the group immediately and chats to you like a casual friend as you walk from destination to destination. i sound like a fucking creep now, don’t i, but what is tumblr if not a public personal diary? don’t think i’ve ever caught a crush this quickly before. started entertaining silly little clara fantasy delusions for a second.

then at one point while recounting an anecdote he mentioned his wife and kids, naturally that brought me back down to reality. here, have a regents canal photo instead

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

While I’m not a Luz/Hunter shipper, I do think it gets too much flack from hardcore Lumity fans. After looking at fandom discourse last night, I kind of realized it has some similarities with another controversial ship which happens to be my OTP. That being Shinji/Rei from NGE. A depressed 14 year old befriends an imperfect clone who slowly breaks out of their shell and becomes their own individual despite being made to serve a cruel master. TV tropes even describes Hunter as a male example of a Rei Ayanami Expy. The arguments against them by antis are even kind of similar.

Two arguments that have been levied against both are “they’re sibling coded” and “it’s gay erasure”. First, Luz is bisexual and can be in a M/F relationship and Shinji doesn’t have a confirmed sexuality. Liking Lunter or Reishin does not make someone a homophobe who hates Lumity or Kawoshin. The sibling criticism is based off Rei having some of Yui’s DNA which makes people uncomfortable at the idea of pairing her with Shinji and how people view Luz and Hunter as adoptive siblings. The romantic implications were more explicit in the rebuilds and manga but were there in the 90s anime too and there’s no problematic elements like incest or pedophilia in Luz and Hunter’s dynamic.

I never picked up on the similarities between these pairings until now but both get too much hate from the fandoms. If you don’t like it, fine, but leave people who do like it alone. It’s like people haven’t learned a thing from the SU fandom about not bullying people for liking a different pairing.

[rei-does-stuff]

Bi lesbian Wakaba OKAY BYE <3

[somethingsad]

It irks me the way enhox shippers talk abt Rei Todoroki as if she's some kind of obstacle for their ship like borderline misogynistic if u will

[wonder-and-wildflowers]

Unpopular opinion but I actually like that Kazuki and Rei aren't romantically/sexually involved with eachother.

I know a lot of other people would rather it be a bl, but personally I'm genuinely super happy with them being familial and platonic.

Why? Because its still queer. They just aren't gay. This is clearly a queer platonic relationship 🫶🏾💕