#sentibug lives

[galahadwilder]

Felix trying to figure out whether Bridgette is a Sentimonster or just goddamn weird

[nemaliwrites]

feligami this, felinette that - who is thinking about FELIBUG WITH ME

Félix and Sentibug… taking back their humanity together…making sure no one else is used and discarded like they were….their birth may not have been their own but their lives can be

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I’m personally a bit mixed on the senti-kid stuff.

I like it in concept because I’m a big fan of angst and existential horror, especially involving the “am I really a human/person? Am I a monster?” character arcs. Then you add in the horror of “they can have their free will taken away incredibly easily” (and be killed at someone’s whim) and that adds a whole other layer. I know that’s part of why a lot of people don’t like it, but I like the angst stuff a lot.

Having said that, I am still on the fence about it, because as much as I like the aforementioned reasons, I really hate how it was handled narratively. They do address the “can be killed easily” part a little, with Sentibug and Felix, but I think they don’t expand much on it, and don’t really stay consistant with it (like how they treat other sentis- LB controlling Sentibubbler, for example).

But the most glaring part of it for me is: having Adrien be a senti feels more like yet another reason for them to take him out of a significant action role in the story. They already did this with Chat Blanc: “oh he can’t know his dad is Hawkmoth bc he’ll destroy the world!” Then again with Ephemeral, though this time with the obvious use of the amok (Gabriel twisting the ring as he akumatized him). S5 shows him using it more and more, and has the finale with him still in control of the main villain, making it incredibly risky for Adrien to even have the Miraculous. Astruc and other fans can talk all they want about how feather kids are just magical IVF babies, and while I agree that they are human still, it blatantly ignores that having them be controlled by someone that dangerous makes them a huge risk, even if they get their amok (which is why I think there should have been some way to at least break them free of the control aspect, even if not their lives being tied to an object). (It’s also incredibly scary for the senti kid themselves.) Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world. It’s harsh, but powers like these, despite how they’re treated sometimes, can’t just be given out like candy to anyone, they need to be given selectively and carefully. Something like this can’t just be put in the hands of someone who isn’t even in full control of themselves. That’s so much responsibility to have. The narrative gave us two huge reasons that the narrative gave us for why Adrien can’t be a part of defeating his father and isn’t fit for the miraculous: 1) he’ll destroy the world, 2) he can be magically controlled and they can’t do anything about it. Why are they trying so hard to come up with reasons for why one of their main characters shouldn’t be in the role they gave him? The senti story would fit far better if Adrien wasn’t Chat Noir- I’ve read a lot of fics where things do work out, but they usually always take it in a direction that the show wouldn’t (in terms of story style and episode outline), so I don’t really think it can be successful in a canon style (though fic writers always surprise me, so I’m happy to be proven wrong).

That’s not even bringing up how Adrien’s arc was all about him obeying his father because he wants approval, not bc of magic, which… I guess can be explained away by Gabriel acting on the assumption that they made him perfect, therefore he doesn’t need to be controlled (like why Tomoe let Kagami keep her amok), but they don’t really address that on the Agreste side- how far is Gabriel willing to go? Why is he using it more now? Did Emilie use his amok? What for and why? Did the couple have a discussion beforehand? There’s just too much left open for the giant hole they created.

Sorry if this came off as ranty, but I wanted to share my thoughts as someone who does like the senti plotline, but still has frustrations with the show’s writing quality and inability to pull it off.

In another show, the sentikid stuff would have been amazing, so I don't fault anyone for liking the concept! It's a fantastic setup for a dark and twisted take on the genres that Miraculous is playing with. I could easily see that more serious show being considered a sort of sister show to Madoka Magica in terms of what it's trying to do.

The problem is that Miraculous isn't Madoka Magica. It's not trying to be a dark fantasy for teens and adults. It's trying to be a rom-com for little kids and the sentikid plotline has no place in a rom-com for little kids. It's way too serious for many of the reasons that you brought up.

For me, the biggest one is probably this point:

Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world.

Because sentimonsters do not have true free will, Adrien is a massive liability who should never be trusted with a miraculous. The risk is simply too great. He should also never be with Marinette or anyone else whose job is high stakes as he's a massive liability to them. A perfect sleeper agent who could be commanded to fool everyone until it's too late.

Great stuff if you like psychological horror, terrible stuff if you're here to see the power of love and friendship triumph over all!

There's also the issue of when the sentitwist was introduced. Madoka Magica goes from classic magical girl team show to psychological horror within the first few episodes, which is perfectly reasonable. Shows often take a few episodes to establish their tone. Miraculous doesn't introduce the sentikid stuff until season four, well over 24 hours into the show's runtime, way too late for a massive tone shift!

Add in the issues with how the sentitwist is used to downplay Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's reactions to it and, yeah, this was not a good move. I have no idea how the writing team got the higher ups to approve this twist. I'm still stunned that Disney okayed it.

I do think that Miraculous could have kept its lighthearted nature and done the sentitwist, but it would have required the sentikids to have a way to truly break free. After all, Pinocchio is a children's story and it has similar elements, but we didn't get Pinocchio. Instead we got Ephemeral, the episode where our hero stared his love in the eyes and doomed the world because he is totally incapable of being her hero when someone else has even one of his rings. That isn't a love story. It's a tragedy.

[theerurishipper]

A few more things because I am not done talking about this finale.

I know a lot of people think that this issue of Gabriel being seen as a hero and Marinette keeping the fact that Adrien is a sentimonster and that his father is Monarch is going to come back as a major plot point, or that Gabriel isn't really redeemed and that this isn't the end. And I'm not saying I have evidence that it's not going to turn out that way, but like... this is Miraculous we're talking about.

The show which famously tries to offer sympathy to bad people because of their tragic backstory by:

Trying to half-assedly "redeem" Natalie into some kind of super mother figure for Adrien, even though she enabled and participated in his abuse for years and never showed remorse for it, or even took accountability for it. Her callously killing Sentibug is never brought up again either. And she still does not give Adrien the Amok that helps him choose for himself or tell him he is a sentimonster, and yet is framed as a good parental figure for him.

Trying to redeem Andre Bourgeois and frame him as some kind of great person by having him adopt Zoe and send Chloe to live with her abuser by disowning her, even though it's his shitty parenting that let her get to this point. And letting him get off scot-free for all the times he abused his power as Mayor.

Trying to redeem Felix by glossing over such crimes as him giving all the Miraculous to Gabe, him committing genocide, him trying to ruin his cousin's life, him victim blaming Adrien, him returning Adrien's Amok to Gabe, and many such things. All because he had a tragic backstory and cared for sentimonster rights (even though he killed two on-screen with only regret for one of them) so that clearly means that he did nothing wrong and does not need to be held accountable for those things, even though he showed no remorse for it or desire to do better.

And the show which also famously ignores major plot points and leaves them behind with little to no resolution in favor of dropping new bombs on the audience, such as:

Choosing to ignore the Ladynoir conflict in Season 4 by having Chat Noir just push aside his legitimate grievances with Ladybug's bad decisions to continue being her emotional support partner. This conflict was not addressed ever again, even in Season 5, and was left without any resolution.

Neglecting any exploration of Chat Blanc beyond some obligatory mentions now and again to remind the audience of why the show needs more seasons.

The whole plot with the alternate love interests Luka and Kagami, which was built up across a whole season and dismissed within two episodes of the next season so that the writers could focus on the new Love Square drama they came up with for Season 4.

Luka's conflict about knowing Chat Noir and Ladybug's identities, which was written out in one episode, only for it to have been ultimately pointless in favor of having Kagami know it anyway.

These are great examples of how the show neglects to build up and conclude previously established plot points and conflicts in favor of substituting them with other ones and/or does the absolute minimum to somehow write them out in order to move the story forward and focus on other new plot points that they came up with for the new season.

From these, we can understand that:

Trauma is a valid excuse for everything, and a tragic backstory frees you from accountability unless you're Chloe.

And:

Previously established conflicts are not brought up or explored in any meaningful capacity in order to make way for new ones.

Knowing this, I think it's highly unlikely that the show will ever explore this idea of Gabriel not having truly become a martyr and a hero, and that even if it is the case, it will be neglected as a plot point in order to push this Lila thing to the front. At most, we will get a moment where Adrien learns the truth and instantly forgives Marinette for doing what his abuser asked because she did it out of love, and no one will question the implications of this in any meaningful way. This is because Adrien is not allowed to have feelings that inconvenience Marinette in any way, be it his hurt at her keeping secrets from him, or now her siding with his father and outright lying to him, because his role in the story is now that of Marinette's love interest and emotional support partner, and that's all he's good for. And as for Adrien acknowledging that Gabriel was a bad father again, combining the redemption that simply having trauma gives him and the fact that Thomas "Chloe is not an abused child" Astruc doesn't seem to understand the severity of such things, I doubt we will ever see him outright reject his father ever again.

For all these reasons, I really do believe that it is wishful thinking to expect this to be addressed in any way that matters. If it is not forgotten, it will be relegated to a single moment and forgotten after. That is, if it was ever meant to be explored. The writers of this show are... not the best at dealing with this sort of thing, after all. After all I've seen, it is not surprising to me at all that Gabriel was redeemed. There is a clear trend of characters with any motivation that could be construed as sympathetic or with a tragic backstory portrayed as being justified in their actions, having their actions erased and ignored or at the very least severely downplayed for the sake of making them out to be better than they are. Gabriel has been consistently given sympathetic scenes throughout the season, which culminated in this finale which absolves him of every wrongdoing.

And I know people feel like this is clearly not the end, but that's how a lot of people felt about the Ladynoir conflict in Season 4, and look how that turned out. This show has always been bad at dealing with nuance. An abused child is portrayed as irredeemable and evil, and her enabling father is portrayed as a good person for giving up on her (I don't even like her, but damn). There is a trend of demonizing those characters who really should not be, and offering sympathy to characters who haven't earned it. I have no trouble at all in believing that Gabriel is supposed to sympathized with and redeemed by the end. He gets his happy ending, he gets what he wanted, and his actions make the world a better place.

I've seen the idea that Gabriel actually lost floating around, but did he? He already knew he was dying, and he had, to some degree, come to terms with it. And in the end, he was clearly very happy with just dying if it meant being able to make his wish. His end is clearly portrayed as him making the ultimate sacrifice to wish for a better world, as one last good thing he does for his son. It's portrayed as him asking Marinette to hide all this from him to protect him. Of course, anyone with common sense can see that this is still really controlling and manipulative, but the show pretty clearly frames it as a selfless act. The line "all the times I tried to be a good father," isn't framed as the delusional statement it is. He's smiling in that scene, surrounded by light, and that's not the framing for someone who's supposed to be read as manipulative and evil at that point. The writers seem to genuinely believe that the man was a good father at some points. I've also seen others say that clearly Gabriel was not redeemed by the end because he refused Marinette's hand, but that's not really true. He did paralyze her, but then he freed her and returned all the Miraculous, and Marinette ends the season by fulfilling his dying wishes and letting the world know he was a hero. He paralyzed her, but then he also clearly listened to her. He was also genuinely emotional. Her words did reach him and it is framed as him making a "selfless choice" even though it clearly is not.

I've also seen people say Adrien's reaction isn't necessarily acceptance of Gabriel's heroism since he might be trying to cope with his loss by convincing himself Gabriel was a hero, or that abused children often cannot recognize that their parent is not a good person. And I agree, but that is clearly not what is happening here. Adrien has already expressed disgust for who his father is, and it is possible for him to fall back onto old thoughts and feelings regarding him, but that isn't what's going on here. This here, is Adrien being fed a lie that his father was a good man and a hero by people he trusts. This is Adrien being told what to think and feel, because there are statues of Gabriel being erected and Ladybug spreading the word that he is a hero. This is Gabriel's abuse being erased to portray him as good. And Adrien, after spending the whole season working up to calling Gabriel out, ends the season with hoping to be like him.

And I've seen arguments about how episodes like Chat Blanc and Ephemeral were there to show us that Adrien facing his father isn't a good idea because his reaction makes him vulnerable, but then... why would you write that! Why would you set the protagonist up with this plot point only to write reasons to leave him out of his own plot and character arcs? What about that is good writing? It only makes this finale more deserving of critique! It is not the defense it's trying to be. It just shows they couldn't care less about their own narrative.

I get that this could lead to a potential arc about trust and honesty and all that, but... we've done that before. How many times will Marinette learn the same lesson? How many times will Adrien forgive her for it? How can you even forgive something like this? And even if it all comes to light, what purpose does this serve in anyone's arc? Gabriel is dead, so there's no consequences for him. Marinette has been "learning" the same lesson for two seasons now, and not even losing all the Miraculous made her stop keeping secrets. And what more does it contribute to Adrien's arc to have him learn the truth later rather than now? How does it add to his story to know that everyone he trusts lied to him? Nothing, if you think about it. It really takes away from his story, because he can no longer confront the man who did this to him, he can no longer get that closure, because Gabriel is gone! Sure, it'll be dramatic and all, but that's all it is! But that is how Miraculous operates: shock value and dramatic scenes over consistency and character arcs. Which is why characters like Marinette aren't allowed to retain the lessons they should have learnt ages ago, and characters like Adrien are actively pushed away from their arcs to make way for some other drama.

And this is me saying this while believing they aren't going to bring it up anyway. How many times have we seen this kind of thing happen? For a conflict to be set up only to be ended unceremoniously with no proper conclusion? What reasons are there to believe that the show will actually follow through with this plot? Other than speculation, I mean. I don't see any. The ending did not indicate that there was anything wrong with what happened. The seasons prior set up the conflicts for the next season in the finale episodes. In Season 3, we had Gabe fixing the Peacock and Marinette becoming the guardian. In Season 4, we saw Monarch rise and Marinette lose all the Miraculous. In Season 5, we see Lila get the Butterfly Miraculous and that light that scared her or whatever it was. But we never see any set up for this being a plot point. There is no point in which we are supposed to think this is wrong. A set up, for example, would be something like Marinette looking to the Gabriel statue with a frown, or Adrien feeling unsettled somehow. But there's nothing like that. For all intents and purposes, Gabriel is done and there are new threats to move on to. And removing all that stuff with Lila, it just seems like it could be a solid series finale. The conflict is over, all the characters are back and together and happy, the main couple kisses as the theme music plays in the back in a scene that's clearly the sort of scene used in the ending of a show, and no one even hints at anything being wrong. It's all audience interpretation, and quite frankly there's no real reason to believe it's setting up something. Something was already set up and it wasn't the thought that this ending is in any way flawed. It's a charming, idyllic ending where all the characters are clearly happy and content, basking in the end of Monarch.

And what he did is not clear at all. Did he not actually rewrite the world? It seems like he just traded his life for Natalie's (and Emilie's???? Is that her?), because Hawkmoth still existed here, the Alliance rings still exist, which means everything happened exactly how it did, and the only thing that's changed is that Natalie has recovered. But this just makes the "clearly something isn't right" argument less valid. This isn't Gabriel's "ideal world," which needs to be fixed, this is just the normal world, where there is a statue of Gabriel only because Ladybug told everyone he was a hero. The things that are being done are completely against everything Gabriel ever believed in, so clearly the world is not based on his ideals, and it hasn't been rewritten. So, the only one really responsible for Gabriel being seen as a hero is Marinette (this is not a criticism of Marinette btw, just the writing). This is just the normal world, and the only thing that needs to be "fixed" is that Marinette should tell the truth. But the writers clearly think that Gabriel is fully redeemed, so there isn't anything that needs to be fixed. So why would they address this plot point again? They have no reason to.

And if he did rewrite the world, then the writers just made Gabe rewrite everything and everyone's memories so that he didn't have to be held accountable by anyone, especially the son he abused. That's going to be even harder to fix.

Any resolution to something I don't believe will be resolved anyway will undoubtedly a side story or a minor plot point. Remember, this is the show which is notorious for setting up plot points only to do nothing with them in the end. Everyone was so hyped about the resolution to Luka discovering both Mari and Adrien's identities only for the writers to decide Kagami fit that role better and shittily write Luka out in one episode. Everyone was talking about how Luka keeping secrets would undoubtedly have massive repercussions only for no one to give a shit about it and simply write Luka out for a few episodes and have him come back with no consequence in the finale. And this is a pattern for this show.

All this to say that no, we're probably not going to address this. It hasn't happened before, and I doubt it will happen this time. I've tried to give this show chance after chance, but it never delivered, and I don't trust it to do so anymore. I'll take all this back gladly if it does deal with this conflict well, but as of right now, I feel very confident in putting this post up.

[xaran-alamas]

I've just had a crazy thought... what if the very last command Emilie ever gave Adrien with the ring was

"Live your life"?

Not a direct "Don't be sad" but a more open-ended command like when Marinette put the ring on Adrien's finger in the finale and told him to "Just be yourself"

We know from what Adrien has said that when he was younger, he just wanted what his parents wanted.

We know from the episode Ladybug that a Senti needs to be freed by a command, like how Ladybug told Sentibug she was free now when she gave her her own Akuma.

Perhaps for most of his childhood, Adrien was not yet in the 'freed' state. That's why he didn't have his own dreams or desires beyond doing what his parents wanted.

Until Emilie told him to live his life.

And then that's why he was able to move on from Emilie's more easily than Gabriel. He misses his Mum of course, but as we know the key difference between Adrien and his Reverse counterpart is that he was able to move on from Emily's death, but Gabriel wasn't.

Now yes, teenagers can be very emotionally resilient, but it seems very strange to me that a child who has not been without his parents his entire life would be able to do that normally - he'd never been without Emilie.

But maybe Emilie herself gave him a nudge? We know from her recordings that she wanted Gabriel and Adrien to live a happy life when she was gone.

So if this is true, that's why in the year since she died, Adrien suddenly wants to go to school and becomes more defiant of Gabriel?

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Honestly have to say legitimately miss the S1-3 Marinette vs Lila conflict over the shit show season 5 made

Like not only was Lila not a supervillain with multiple different identities but outside of the paper napkin lie nothing she said was as far fetch as a lot of the audience made it out to be back then given how the class and Marinette had greater and even more outlandish achievements.

Plus the class believing Lila slightly over Marinette made sense given how Marinette made herself look like a crazy person that was only hostile because of her crush on Adrien during chameleon and her randomly accusingly Lila during beginning of Sentibug.

It feels like the writers realized they needed to make Lila more of a threat, so they threw in this crap about her secretly living multiple lives while explaining nothing about why she does it.

Hell, I don't think Marinette and Adrien know Lila's just one of several identities.

[princess-of-the-corner]

The "All Sentimonsters are living things!" Has to be the most bullshit thing. I can take knowing that Sentimonsters could be made living things, but ALL OF THEM? Sentibug, Sentibubbler, Fake Gabriel, Felix, Kagami, and Adrien are acceptable. Feast is too like a dog. BUT FUCKING RED MOON? REFLEKDOLL? HOW?

See there's a reason that I write it that Sentimonsters are not sapient beings by default, you need something Extra™ to make them Real.

But yeah so many of those should not be alive and it's fucked that one change to lore makes the body count go insane.

[thecoolcatstuff]

Its crazy how the storytelling tries to push they "always cared about sentimonsters" and "sentimonster life matters" now that its confirmed that Adrien is a sentimonster, when in previous seasons its so obvious they couldnt care less.

Even the most blatant and overrused argument show defenders use to justify that "sentimonster life always mattered", which is Sentibug's death in "Ladybug", is nothing but pure bs. Mayura killed off sentibug in front of the heroes only for the sake of the dramatic shock, and it held nowhere the same weight it would if a actual human was killed.

Yeah they were upset and angry about Sentibug disappearing, but for what 5 seconds? When the deed was done, noone actually gave a shit. No tears spilled. No funeral. No trauma or disconfort, even though supposedly someone was murdered right in front of them. They just fist bumped and carried on with their lives, the lasting effect not greater than if Mayura had kicked a puppy in front of them.

You cant tell me if someone human like Mr Damocles or Andre were the ones getting killed there they would have behaved the same way they did with Sentibug. They should be grieving. They should be looking for therapy. They should despise Mayura to the last of her bones, even more than Hawkmoth who had a bodycount of 0 (thanks to the miraculous cure)

But they didnt. Why? Because the show narrative always supported that Sentibeings were less than human. They are not worth your trauma, not worth your grief. They are like a lovable character in a book you are reading that dies, and you are "SAD!" and move on with your life right after.

So no Astruc, you cant come to twitter and say Sentimonsters are like human beings. You cant start writing how much sentimonsters can be humans and sentient and how everyone in the show cares so much about them, and how okay it is to be one. Because everything that was written in the last 3 years supports otherwise.

[imthepunchlord]

Do you also feel that the power to make sentimonsters could have easily been another power for the butterfly and no one would have batted an eye?

I mean technically the Butterfly kinda has done sentimonsters in a sense, as some akumas do get extra outside of them to act as a means of transportation and a boost of power and it works along their agenda.

Take something like Refleckdoll and you got to wonder, why is that a sentimonster and not just an add on to Refleckta? Because it acts as something for Reflckta to pilot so... why is it a sentimonster?

Another factor is that sentimonsters are tied to emotions and Butterfly's power has long been tied to emotions, to a point I considered it more for Emotion than Transmission. So sentimonsters didn't really bring in anything new, aside from sentipeople which I really hate, especially the insistence that they're actually people. It kinda brings about a can of worms to question, like should a miraculous really have the power to just casually make life? Especially knowing that everything made is allve. Also if terminating that sentimonster is terminating life, does that make you a murderer? And the leads take out sentimonsters too so...

I just find it to be a really iffy power in how they went about it and how Thomas clarifies it.

I really think it would've been better for them if sentibeings (or whatever a friendlier term for them is) were just animated dolls/puppets, and depending on their creation can depend on how "alive" they are, but they're still not truly alive. They act out the role they were made for, they could be complex mentally and emotionally, but they're not truly alive. They don't need what true living things need, like eating and sleeping, nor do they fear termination, if anything may just stress about not continuing the role they were made for if it's not "done" for them. They're not flexible enough to deviate from what they were made for. And depending on the complexity of their creation and the role they're to play, they could end up quite problematic for their creator.

Like, I'm half joking and half serious of maybe thought that Lila should've been confirmed a sentibeing with all her wild lies and how everyone's IQ drops and at this point her lies are just off the walls bonkers (like seriously she's just a 13-14 yo what is going on with her???). Could be a Peacock was rivals with that ancient Fox, so made Lila in her likeness to cause her problems in her civilian life, and Lila never got dismissed so she existed on lying and being antagonistic and chaotic as that's what she was made to do and given this magical purpose, everyone is compelled to believe her and not think too hard about what she says. And she drifts to Paris drawn in by the miraculous activity, she works with HM cause he's causing chaos and may secretly plan to double cross him, she picks on Marinette as Marinette caught onto her lies, she targets Adrien cause Adrien's an easy target, ect..

Like, of all the characters to be confirmed to be a creation of the Peacock, I vote it should've been Lila cause everything with Lila is just wild. Her being this immortal gremlin and agent of chaos and made out of peer spite would make more sense than whatever is even going on with her.

Side note, this power is tied to making "life" which is form of creation, so, why isn't making sentibeings actually a Ladybug power as that's literally Creation? And can you imagine the relief Marinette could get learning that she could just make this efficient Ladybug doll that could do her job for her, she could take a break, keep the earrings safe, and just destress cause Sentibug is made to be the best LB hero out there and she's nailing.

Marinette just catches up on a week of sleep.

[lady0lunamoon]

With the upcoming Miraculous World Special, I hope we can finally get more likable Miraculous villains in Shadybug and Claw Noir!

I mean..... so far, not counting akumatized villains, the only actual villain I found likeable was Natalie/Mayura! And still, there were moments where I really didn't like her, like when she destroyed Sentibug — essentially killing a living creature!

Gabriel, Chloe and Lila? Confirmed Hate Sinks!

Felix? More of an Anti-Villain actually! He had good intentions at heart, as he only wanted to help Adrien! Plus, his status as a villain was ambiguous for most of the show! It was only after he betrayed Ladybug in season 4 (because his life was literally in his Uncle's hands) that he could really be called a villain, but he was actually revealed as an Anti-Villain and began his redemption not even a whole season later (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just saying)!

If Shady and Claw are actual villains (not Anti-Villains or Anti-Heroes or anything) then this could be the producers' chance to finally give us some actual villains who are actually likeable! Like, make them snarky, relatable, badass and have an interesting dynamic! They don't have to be good guys or something and still be interesting to watch!

Especially considering they are essentially evil reflections of ladybug and Chat Noir, they have the potential to become the best villains in the whole show, even if they really do get redeemed in the end! So DON'T screw it up writers!

DON'T make them cold blooded murderers, DON'T make them major jerkasses who loose their temper for NO reason (Basically, don't make them like Gabriel — in both points), and DON'T. YOU. DARE go with the stereotype of Emo's being depressed and suicidal or something!

Come on Astruc! Give us that badass emo villain couple we want!

[paracosmicat]

PLEASE talk about your Sentibug

AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT HER? 🐞❤️ (I LOVE YOU)

In my AU, the way she is able to be brought back is through the Peacock Miraculous. I personally think Adrien’s interest, now that he is free, should be Miraculous lore because it’s a natural side step given how much freedom and happiness his Miraculous has brought him and it would give Chat Noir a much bigger role to play in their hero business. (Also it makes more sense for him than for Marinette, because the Miraculous has been a chain, the opposite of what it has been for Adrien) And where does his research take him? Exploring the Kwagatama and uncovering that Sentibeings lives and memories are stored within the Miraculous, able to be brought back so long as they are willing.

That was my very long winded way of saying, Adrien had never really gotten over her death so he works with Félix to bring her back.

AND SO

Given that Adrien was the one to fight for her, he takes it upon himself to make sure she has a place in the world. He introduces himself to her as Chat Noir, but offering her a place to stay at his house does require that he reveals his identity. (Which, gives Adrien someone in his corner, which I love)

NOW

Figuring out her identity is something they work together on. Adrien nicknames her Coccinelle, French for Ladybug, as a temporary nickname and a way to differentiate their hero forms. I think she continues to use this for her hero form name as she helps them when needed, same with the other heroes.

Speaking of hero forms, I think it would be really funny if she could still do Lucky Charms but they were always insanely oversized weapons.

BUT FOR HER CIVILIAN FORM

The insanely talented @belowthesurface drew my vision of her civilian form!! And I will be using this art to make my next points and because oh my god did I mention how talented Moonie is???

I think Adrien finds it important to find her a name that she likes, so he researches it with her. They eventually come across Mireille, which means miracle/miraculous. As @ninadove pointed out, it’s also a bit older of a name which is suiting for her vibe given that a lot of it is a reflection of Nathalie’s touch!

As you can see their facial structures are similar but different. I would describe her features as Nathalie “filling in the blanks” much the same as when you see someone wearing a face mask.

As for style, I’ve made this joke so many times but I feel like her style is Nathalie’s “what are the teens wearing these days?” Very formal and business casual while still looking really really good.

And you know who would love her??? Félix!!! A Sentibeing who went against orders and paid the price but ended up making it in the end? A representation of his cousin making decisions for himself and refusing to repeat the awful patterns of the people before him? He would be ecstatic.

Her personality would be very sweet, shy, and lovey. It would be easy to say she had Ladybug’s leadership and determination, but she immediately agreed to doing “whatever you say, Ladybug” and she did not quip back at Chat Noir when Ladybug did. She was designed to be a sweeter softer version of her, one that Chat Noir would fall for, I think her personality follows suit!

Btw, anyone is welcomed to create content with her, if you so please. I love her I want more of her.

[ninadove]

I don't know if you've ever talked/reflected on this but… have you ever thought about the idea of "souls" in Miraculous? I don't know, I was tormented by that a few nights ago because the very pointed and never dealt with in depth situation with the senti.

Obviously Felix thinks that they are ALL sentient creatures that deserve to live and "undoing" is equivalent to living but even writing this I'm talking about "creatures" not people which also means that I myself have a bias that the more human, the more "real" I see them.

Of course GabNat don't see them as more than tools but they very obviously think differently from the particular case of *Adrien* so I have to wonder if for them "intention" is what makes Adrien different, endowed with a soul so to speak. And LB is the heroine, in theory the bastion of morality, but, if I'm not mistaken, there is only one case in which she treat a senti as if they were a person worthy of having their own free will and they are sentibug, after that we have others (I'm thinking of sentibubble) and (although I understand that they had no way of freeing them and they have to stop them) they also don't spend a moment reflecting that they could be just as dignified.

I don't know, just all these mixed up ideas of what makes them "real" beyond a construct and that Felix thinks the mere idea of creation is enough, while the villains seem to think there are "exceptions" and I don't have no idea what the parameter of the heroine or Kagami for that matter would be.

I really want to hear your thoughts

OK, so I clicked publish before I even got a chance to write anything. Because I’m a genius. Anon I’m so sorry.

ANYWAYS you raise an excellent question, so I’m going to try my best to put my thoughts in order! 🦚

First of all, it seems Thomas Astruc himself differentiates between “human” Sentibeings and others:

Which seems to imply different levels of sentience: for instance, Adrien is no different from any regular child, while Feast exhibits behaviours that are closer to an animal’s. Not that it makes abusing or destroying him acceptable in any way, but I don’t think we’re supposed to feel as much towards him as towards the Sentikids.

(I do. I feel all the feels for Feast. Feast is my baby boy and I will never stop mourning him.)

If intent is truly what determines a Senti’s level of sentience, then this raises many questions as to which ones were created with that objective in mind. And interestingly, it doesn’t actually seem to be tied to whether they look “human” or not.

Sentibug is the first Sentibeing that is explicitly shown to have a soul of her own. Mayura wanted her to be a perfect copy of Ladybug, and that backfired the second she got a hold of her own amok; she shares the heroine’s strong sense of justice, and immediately sided with her at the cost of her life.

What does it mean for humanoid Sentis that were created after S3? Specifically, Senti-Gabriel and Senti-Bubbler? As far as I recall, they don’t get a chance to speak for themselves and express their own identity. If they were to be freed, would they act of their own volition or model their behaviour after their human counterpart? What would that mean for Felix, who was created out of jealousy over Adrien? Would Shadowmoth be able to create Sentibeings who simply look human, but are only granted a “lower” level of sentience to avoid a repeat of the Sentibug debacle?

The more I’m writing, the more I hate the idea of nitpicking sentience levels. It feels like the exact same logic Gabriel, Tomoe or Colt would use to justify the way they (mis)treat their children.

Felix also rejects the idea of a sentience hierarchy — especially based on the Sentibeings’ appearance and ability to speak for themselves.

Strikeback looks absolutely terrifying — monstruous, even. There’s nothing remotely human about them; and yet, Felix feels heartbroken and guilty as he lets Ladybug yeet them into the Sun.

Red Moon is also scary — in a stranger, more ominous, beautiful kind of way. An important feature about her is that she is unable to speak for herself; yet Argos still calls her his sister, and it is pretty clear from the way he interacts with her that she can understand him and experience emotions just as complex as his.

From a purely doylist explanation — I think Sentis are whatever the writing team needs them to be in the moment. This was made extra clear with the creation and (probable) destruction of Once Upon A Time, so they could try something new in terms of storytelling:

The play was very fun (read: tragic), don’t get me wrong, but I feel like the writers kind of got in their own way here.

The thing is — while the delivery isn’t the most consistent or satisfactory, you can tell that there is an intent to say something through the existence and treatment of Sentibeings.

Adrien, Felix and Kagami are, or course, child abuse survivors:

But they are also extremely queer-coded:

And very likely neurodivergent:

I’m sure there’s a lot of other communities who can see themselves represented in these kids — the common thread between these demographics being that we know what it feels like to be othered.

How many queer people are being mistreated for being “too overtly gay, why can’t you just be normal about it”? Or rejected by their own community, based on arbitrary standards?

How many neurodivergent people are being treated as subhuman, simply because they do not have the capability to advocate for themselves? Or because they are disabled “in the wrong way”?

As for abuse survivors? The hard truth is that they aren’t always perfect victims, who automatically know how to behave healthily once they’re out of a bad situation — especially not when they are literal children, who have never experienced anything else in their lives. There are after-effects, wounds that might get infected if you don’t tend to them, behaviours to unlearn. And yes, the healing process can look ugly, but they deserve some grace — a chance to grow and make it right.

Oftentimes, these biases come from figures of authority who are typically seen as “progressive”, or people who have the best intentions in the world — like Ladybug, who originally failed to see Sentis as human or even just sentient, unless they looked exactly like her.

All that to say — the approach that I take when thinking or writing about Sentibeings is the same as Felix’s not taking the Once incident into consideration: that all Sentis are sentient, to the same level, until proven otherwise. Is it necessarily coherent with what has been shown on screen? Not really, but I think it’s truer to the intended message!

And because I’m not one to pass up an opportunity, have some Transmasc Felix Propaganda:

[ilikekidsshows]

Feligami for otp ask

Rate Your OTP Game

Crème de la crème | Excellent Taste | A Worthy Sailing Vessal | A fine ship it is | The Finest Crack in the Den | Unorthodox yet not Unwelcome | It is a good | Overrated | It is acceptable | Forgive me but I am not familiar with the source material | I would not consider myself a fan | Just because you are contrarian doesnt make it good | What dump did you find this? | In the lowest pits of the Abyss is where your taste was forged.

Considering I'm 75% sure you sent this pairing in just to have me tear it to shreds, I feel comfortable being nasty about it.

Feligami as a ship emphasizes and underlines the artificiality of these characters both in universe and out of universe. It's the token ship where a couple is brought together by the writers specifically because they fill out the same niche. The ethnicity couple, the nerd couple, the artificial slave species couple.

Look, Miraculous has a really, really, REALLY bad track record with making its Sentimonsters seem like actual people worthy of sympathy and human rights. The creation and controlling of these creatures is totally okay most of the time, no one considers how horrifying it is that their lives are so fleeting, fragile and easily controlled by others and they're called Sentimonsters. The only character who cared about Sentibug dying was Adrien, apparently another Sentimonster so, with Félix's season 5 characterization of him caring about Kagami and Adrien because they're Sentis, we have a 3/3 track record of only another Sentimonster choosing to care about someone they know for a fact is a Sentimonster from the get-go.

Félix only started caring about Kagami because she was part of the same slave species he is. Kagami's previous love interest was also a part of this slave species and Kagami was explicitly attracted to him because they were "so alike". With Kagami exclusively falling for guys who are part of the same species as her, who also easily fall for her right back, the show is implying Sentimonsters can subconsciously recognize each other, and this instict presents itself as them being drawn to each other.

Outside of all this Sentimonster nonsense, the pairing also emphasizes how artificial these characters are from a narrative perspective. Kagami is headstrong, and wants to pave her own way. Her previous love interest and first friend were both people who were kind to a fault. Now she falls for an asshole who's also a perfect clone of her previous boyfriend, a breakup she had such a difficult time getting over that she couldn't even see him for a time. It's obvious Kagami likes Félix only because the writers want her to like him. She also shields the writers' pet Félix from the consequences of his own actions, something I've pointed out the writers loooooove to do with Félix. All of this makes it obvious that she's not a real person but a made up character who will do and feel what the writers want regardless of her previous characterization, which just takes a more savvy viewer completely out of the story.

Félix's personality also keeps changing with his every appearance, and him falling for Kagami is just more of the same. The Félix in season three might as well have been another identical Sentimonster and the only connection he still has to his season 4 behavior is him still having the Peacock Miraculous. I actually saw a screenshot of him doing an Adrien expression sincerely because he just wubs Kagami so much, and I gagged. It's just gross when he does the doe-eyed look.

[theerurishipper]

Your reblog about the senti thing make me LOLing so hard because of the senti defender when shoved a fact that contradict their theory mostly act like "Yeah, I didn't think that far" except they never said it out loud!

I remember when s4 still airing and these senti defender said "senti lives matter!" But whenever I ask, "what about that lolipop thing? Feast? Senti Moth?" They always said "They don't have the same level of intelligence as senti human, probably only at the level of animal"

So basically they said it's ok to kill a senti as long as they either don't looks like human or they have low intelligence. This came from the same people who preach that sentimonster is a good methapor for abuse or disabilities.

In the end it boil down to "if hero kill it, it's good but if villain kill it, it's bad" double standard and I couldn't even fathom what so good about the whole sentimonster!human thing except to make an obedient puppet.

"Yeah, hope Chat can have a upgrade power that could destroy the connection between amok and the senti" they said. Except he already did. TA said in his tweet the reason why Reflekdoll or any senti that gone berserk due to the cataclysm is /exactly/ because the connection was destroyed. It didn't free them, it make them berserk. And ironically, this tweet also what make people think the reason why Chat Blanc is so feral is because half of his amok got destroyed, instead of the long isolation and guilt that eat him.

Also a so called child psychologist preach the whole sentimonster is good methapor for abuse thing make me facepalmed, hard. Why need methapor if it's so obvious? Is miraculous going to put on disclaimer : Attention, no real child is being harmed here. Why take the whole abuse theme if they're not going to do it correctly? Who the heck approved this kind of theme??

Sorry for the long rant and thank you for reading my incoherent rant.

You said it, anon.

The Sentimonster theory is a shitty metaphor for abuse or disability. What it says to me is that if your disability isn't convenient or "normal," then you don't matter. Hence the "human" Sentimonsters like Adrien, Felix and Kagami who can fit into society are accepted, but the other Sentimonsters are disposable, despite them having the same amount of sentience and life as any of the human ones.

So Senti lives matter, but only if they're a particular type of Senti. If not, then they're not really alive and can be disposed of without a single thought spared to them (even though that's not true, because Felix treated Red Sun like a sister, and Feast, Sentibubbler, etc. clearly had emotions). Which means... only socially acceptable Senti rights matter. The rest of them only exist to be killed by the heroes. The heroes get to decide which Sentis matter and which ones don't, and the only ones that matter to them are the ones that look like them.

And like... if you're going to have an arc about making us understand that these creatures are just like us and have a life and emotions of their own, then don't create classes and divisions between them from the get-go. Don't portray some of them as more worthy than the others. Nothing in the show suggests that the creation of Adrien, Felix or Kagami was in any way different from the creation of Feast or any other Sentimonster. The argument that they are different because they were created to be humans is also bogus, because of Sentibug. She was created not to be a human, but to be a copy of Ladybug, yet she still had free will. All the justifications for this theory fall apart if we think about it for more than 5 seconds.

And the whole Chat Blanc thing you mentioned is part of a larger problem in this fandom, which involves attributing common reactions to abuse in abuse victims to them being artificially created beings. Adrien listens too much to his father? It must be because he's a Sentimonster and is being controlled, not because Gabriel has conditioned him to be subservient to him all his life! They are literally saying victims of abuse and their reactions to abuse are "unnatural," and can only happen if they weren't human at all. I despise this implication, especially since the show doubled down on it.

And it's not like this was a necessary writing choice. What does Adrien being a Sentimonster contribute to his's character? What did the revelation that he's being mind-controlled help us understand about him? What new facet to his character did we learn about? Nothing, really. There is no exploration of what Adrien being a Sentimonster means for him. He doesn't even find out about it. The only reason Adrien became a Sentimonster is so that the writers could justify leaving him out of the finale and so that they could have an obstacle for Adrienette. And I will say, introducing the whole "Sentimonsters deserve free-will" plot point and then using the characters' Senti status as an excuse to deprive them of agency in their own battles is... certainly a choice.

The Sentimonster theory isn't this groundbreaking exploration of the concept of humanity and free-will, nor is it this subversive metaphor for something that was already being portrayed blatantly in the show. It's something the writers used as a plot device to justify removing the three most plot relevant characters from the story so that Marinette could have the finale to herself. That's it. There's nothing more to it than that.

Which is why the concept is so poorly developed. The whole Senti rights thing is brought for about five minutes in Emotion and maybe two minutes in Pretension. After this, Felix, the main advocate for Senti rights himself falls back on all his ideals and creates a Sentimonster to use and then kill. The heroes have spent three seasons killing these livings creatures without a single care in the world. The moral implications of this are never questioned in any way, even though the show pretends it's presenting this thoughtful and nuanced commentary on the matter. No one cares about Sentimonsters. Sentibug is presented as this big deal, but they don't think about her for more than five seconds and then she is never brought up again. Sentimonsters do not matter in this show. Not to the villains, not to the heroes, not even those who start of advocating for them stick to that cause. The narrative doesn't care about Sentimonsters. Any justification made for it just paints in a worse light. It's a shitty metaphor for anything, and it's just a shitty plot point in general.

Thank you for your ask!

[nangbaby]

I'm confident someone else is also complaining about this right now or already mentioned this, but the possible change in the Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 ending from the leaked version...just swapped one set of issues with another. While "Gabriel sacrificing his life so that he may be with Emilie in death" would be an improvement from the "Gabriel sacrificing himself so Emilie would live" ending in the leaks, a switch like that also comes with its own issues. Aside from the fact that this makes Adrien an orphan (hasn't he suffered enough?), there's an obvious problem with having Amelie assuming guardianship over Adrien.

This means Felix is moving to Paris.

Having Felix stay in Paris is a terrible idea, because the character works by having sporadic appearances and not being accessible. He is written as "smarter" than the other characters and has possession of one of the most over-powered Miraculouses in the show. How is there going to be any credible threat to Paris now that he's clearly one of the permanent heroes?

Plus, the show has made a big deal about how dangerous it is for a person to know both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities. Luka had to leave town because of it, and it's unclear how much mini-Bunnyx knows. Felix and Kagami learning Ladybug's identity means they can't learn the latter in the near future. How is this going to work with Felix living with Adrien, or even Felix being in proximity with Adrien? Felix isn't as oblivious as Gabriel or Nathalie. He's going to know both identities within two seconds of staying in town (assuming he already hasn't figured it out).

I know, the counter is that if Felix is part of the hero crew and knows or figures out his cousin's secret, he would be a much more effective confidante and cover for Adrien than anyone else in the class. But even if you somehow nerf Argos (say, make him unable to create another sentimonster by making him semi-permanently using another one, like if by some horrible twist of fate, Kagami or Adrien's feathers were released from their objects and Argos had to "recreate" one of them...or he had to create a Sentibug of his own if Marinette somehow could no longer become Ladybug) I can't see him being around as a full-time hero and there being any challenges.

Then again, I couldn't see how Gabriel could lose with having all those Miraculouses and he definitely did.

[yunyin]

It's that time of year again! This year, in addition to my usual mix of things I posted, I thought I'd include some things that not too many people have seen! WIPS, alternate versions, sketches, ideas, practice, etc!

For the alt, I'll include brief descriptions.

jan: eye practice

feb: an alternate version of Lucky's DTIYS! I like the LB better in this one but Chat looked flat and weird, so I drew a new one.

mar: cranky marinette

apr: brainstorming merch oc type characters

may: If sentibug had lived, dressed in a way to make her look different from Marinette

jun: just a gal

jul: amelie wearing a dress like baroness schraeder from the sound of music for their weird mask party

aug: wip of fox/rabbit fusion with alix

sept: pink haired circus girl design

oct: adrien confessing his feelings

nov: astrochat I'm not sure about atm

dec: little bunnyx reacting to seeing absurd shenanigans from the burrow

If you want more info or something you can let me know!